Truly;
Chastain:
Neal:
Chastain:
Wise:
Chastain:
Wise:
Jones:
Neal:
Jones:
Neal:
Jones:
they're with us for.
Yes, I think so. That wouldbe II'!Y inclination, too.
Well, whatwe're really saying in the brick itself, be-
tween the nodular red and the standard yellow, there's
approximately fifty dollars a thousanddifference in
price.
Yes, that's about right.
There's not any difference in the laying of the walls,
is it?
No, sir.
But now,on the rustications that Mr. Jones wasmention-
ing, do you think Al will knowwhat he's talking about?
Yes, sir. This is what you used to do before you... nON ,
you cone in with a bellows metal millcore trim and put
in ..• this is for a... we complain... in your stucco, so
that if you do have any cracks in it, you hope that it
cracks in these points. Is this not so, Mr. Jones?
Well, this was done!lOreor less to simulate stone, you
see.
That sounds so impure.
Well, it maybe, but it was exactly whatwas done; in
fact, they preferred it actually over a stone interior,
but they used it
But that sort of cosrretics goes against II'!Y grain.
I'm glad. I was going to suggest that you ch~ge your
cast stone to limestone.
','OlICETh: ", '"lI'ial may be
" ~)V copyright< ,'I \J. 5. Code)..
MDAH
/
Wise:
Jones:
Neal:
Jones:
Neal:
Jones:
capers:
Are you thinking of your rustications as somethingthat
wouldconveythe ---
I think that it wouldreplace. The restoring that is
there nowis not done correctly.
Oh, I see. Well, are there any comrents from any of
you gentlemen? I've madesorre rather crude notes on our
meeting and have madecopies for everyone. If you will
pass sorre that way, and pass sorre this way... I think
that's about enough... and we can review these. See, I'm
finally catching up with you, Mr. Jones. Westarted
through this in sort of an orderly rranner, from the front
porch, and then rrovinqon back through the house. We
concerned ourselves prirrarily with just the rransion, not
with the addition, so that these notes makereference to
the mansion, the old rransion. Mr. Jones, if you would
discuss each of these for us, and elucidate
I thought you were going to call me "Ed."
All right.
Wemight as well start off right. I first brought up
the entrance porch. I don't think the terrazzo is in
character, and, unless we can find someevidence as to.what was there originally, that we resurface that with a
suitable material whichwouldhave been used in a Greek
Revival house.
I think we have what was there before. I think weknow
T. N0T:Cc,<: .:.t . MOAH
/
Jones:
Truly:
capers:
Jones:
Neal:
capers:
Truly:
capers:
Lewis:
Jones:
Chastain:
Neal:
Jones:
that, though I don't knewwhere it is. I've read it
sOl1l2Where.
I think it's in the records. I understand that it
might be in the records.
Makea note to look it up, Jones.
I'll look it up.
It could be stone, it could be ---
Charlotte, you're going to have this typed up and give
us a copy?
Yes, sir.
Are you bugging that?
I'm bugging the Watergate, you bet.
There's no doubt in ~ mind that terrazzo was not there.
Yes.
I think that whatever you use as a replacerrent depends
on the thickness of the ••• I would not like to go back and
rebuild the whole thing.
I irna.ginethat's a conventional set, whichwouldrrean
that it's sorravherebetween two and one-half and three
inches.
Could it be stone? I don't think it could be rrarble.
I've seen Ainsley Hall in Charleston, whichwas built
about the sarre period by Robert Mills, had square brick
pavers on the portico, so there are several materials,
but wemight find in the records exactly what was up
there.
"'oTlce.ul may be
. II copyrighr•.••• 7 U.S. Coder.
/
Lewis:
Jones:
Chastain:
Neal:
capers:
Neal:
capers:
Neal:
capers:
Neal:
The steps there seemto have been woodthe first go-
round.
Yes, they were undoubtedly\\DOd.
Well, we've already talked about;the entrance door, and
I think we are in agreerrent on... that the detail should
be given scmeconsideration.
We'vehad a very... and I think that at one tirre I talked
to Charlotte about this.
I've always been very firm about the front door.
Whenwe got to this point, we decided to take a very
negative attitude, and do nothing at the rrornent.
That was after he talked to me,
Charles Peterson urged us to do exactly what Mr. Jones
is saying, renovate the front door back to its original
state.
Restore!
Restore it to its original state! Wewere hesitant
because that door and the sidelights are so popular I
everyl:x::>dyloves them. Theother reason was - and I
forget whobrought this up, but it was a practical con-
sideration - in that it let rrore natural light in the
hallway; and, of course, originally there was a windowat
the grand stair hall which'WOuldhave let light into the
space. That being closed up, the place is somewhat
darker inside.
MDAHNOTICE
This material may beprotected by copyrightlaw (Title 17 U. S. Code).
/
Jones:
Neal:
Jones:
C1lastain:
Jones:
Neal:
Jones:
C1lastain:
Jones:
Truly:
You'll get exactly the sane anount of light, because the
original door had a transomand sidelights, too. It was
just a different design.
It was not a glass door?
No. It was a woodendoor, but you had your transomand
sidelights whichwouldgive you a certain anount of
illumination. I found, with the help of Mr. Johnson this
rrorning, that the original door frarre, the one that's on
the exterior, is real, and that there were panels that
were, the recess there, the set-in, was original, and we
took off a flat ---
(TapeInterruption)
Andthat the main entrance door to the room, the orna-
mental door was here in the center of the room, and when
they put that door in, in 1908, they destroyed all evi-
dence of it. Becausewhat they did was, they widened
that into a big door.
In other words, you just think that was a typical --
Just like the door in the front hall.
Alxmta six by eight?
Well, it's a big door.
It's not a double door, is'it?
No, a single door.
Let me see that little sketch a minute. That's the thing
about that that puzzles rre , ever since we unearthed
it --- MDAHTICE
/
Capers: It puzzles rre, too. I never did understand howthey got
into those two 'arched doorwaysfrom the hall into the
dining roomand into the so-called music room.... HON did
they get to them?
Jones: This door is related to this, though, that I'm sure that
the service stair carre from the outside, possibly on a
porch or sorrething, because they utilized the tightest
headroom. If you'll look at that, the headroomwas
really quite restricted, and this door's being under this
makesrre believe that that was ---
Truly: Now.,there were sorrestairs comingup from the basement
comingup this way, too.
Jones: I see no evidence of that.
Truly: Yes, they were there. I've seen part of them.
Jones: Well, were they period stairs?
Truly: I don't know,but on Hull's plans, that we've got a copy
of, it says "renove stairs."
Jones: I thought the stairs wewere talking about --
Capers: There were stairs.
Jones: Theywere underneath the main stairs.
Capers: No, there's another set of stairs on the other side.
Jones:
Theycarreup through presently what's the dining room.
I didn't knowthat. I haven't ---
Lewis:
Capers: Well, Hull's plans are available. Wedo have them.
Jones: I would like to have a set of them.
Capers: Andthat's very irrportant. NOTIceThiS matenal may beprotected by Copvrlghtlaw (Title 17 U.S. Code).
/
Jones:
capers:
Jones:
Neal:
Jones:
Chastain:
capers:
Chastain:
Jones:
Chastain:
Jones:
Neal:
Jones:
Chastain:
I wouldlike to have a set of the "as is" docurrentsif
I could get them.
All right. I don't have anything but Hull's plans.
Ed, did you say that you all were doing sorre?
I'll get sorrefor you.
Well, I still think as a matter of function, Mr. Chastain,
that that door is important because --
I think all of us are puzzled by ---
I'm real puzzled by all the entrances and exits and holes
in the walls.
Wouldyou like ... I'm not trying to push things off ... but
wouldyou like to run this by the specialist, Charles
Peterson, and see if he concurswith that?
Anythinglike that you want to do suits rre fine. I think
that all these things are mentionednow. Myonly objec-
tion is just like your objections, Ed. I'm not trying to
change it, I just want it to be perfect. I just want it
as pretty as we can get it.
Whatabout the fireplaces?
I madea suggestion that we Lookfor old mantels, Mr.
Chastain. I'm convincedthat the mantels that were in
those two front roomswere'not the first period mantels.
You're thinking about every fireplace in the old building?
Well, I think they ought to be carefully studied.
Now,there were two of themup there that we just glanc AHat. I believe they were on the second f.Ioor, though.
NOTICE""Is material may be:"'''l~~1Jd by copyright:iW",TiZle 17U.S. Code».
/
Jones:
Chastain:
Jones:
Chastain:
Jones:
T:r:uly:
Jones:
T:r:uly:
Capers:
Jones:
T:r:uly:
Jones:
Chastain:
Jones:
Neal:
YesI they looked like they might have been originals.
Theyhad wood,wood---
Woodenrosettes on them.
Right.
They look like they might be original m:mtels, noreso
than the marble ones on the first floor.
Whenyou say "first period," just what do you rrean?
That rreans what was put in the 1841 const:r:uction.
Not counting up to the 1857 renovation?
That was the gaslight period.
No. I meanthe first period. I hope that's what we're
going to get back to. There were sone alterations made
in 1857.
Weknowthat. That's the reason I asked.
That's whenthey put these later m:mtels in.
Whenyou say those m:mtels should be studied, are you
in a position to do that? As a part of the decorative
work?
Yes. Yes. I'm not in a position to buy them, but I'm
in a position to study them. Here's a m:mtel that's
exactly the period of the house. That's a very fine
marble m:mtel of the 1840s', and I'd like to see you try
to locate period m:mtels to go in there.
He suggested yesterday in our discussion - check rre if
I'm wrong, Ed - that to design and have madenewm:mtels
wouldn't work too well because we can't get proper '·1DAHNOTICE
This material may beprotected bVcopyrightlaw (Title 17 U.S. Code).
I
Jones:
Chastain:
Jones:
Chastain:
Jones:
Chastain:
Jones:
Chastain:
Jones:
Neal:
Capers:
Jones:
craftsmanship or materials.
If you have a marble mantel madetoday to simulate one of
these mantels in there, you'd be so tragically disappointed
in the result.
Well, now,would this be the location of the existing
mantels in this house, 'WOuldthis be a part of what we
might consider decorations?
No, this is considered architecture.
WhatI'm getting at is, of course, we'd ultimately have
to cane back to the contract that exists, but ---
I think it woulddrastically affect the decoration.
That's the reason I'm so intent on it. But it should
cone in your architectural contract. In other words, it
should COIIe through Mr. Wise.
Ulitmately, Mr. Wisewouldhave to install whatever was
found.
In other words, the problembeing to locate the mantels
WhatI "mgetting at is, in order to locate these, you
have IOC>resources ---
I knowwhere two of themare now. Oneis in ---
He's got all that stuff stashed away... all around the
country.
Well, he's been furnishing the White Housefor years and
the ~tro:[X)litan Museum.
HNo, I'll tell you what I've been doing.
with every dealer, every curator of every museum,I know
NOTICEThis m:'ltenal may beprotected by cOPVrlghtlaw lTitie 17 U.S. Code).
/
Capers:
Neal:
Chastain:
Jones:
Capers:
Jones:
Wise:
Truly:
Jones:
Truly:
of.
Theyall knowhim.
He just ratholes this stuff.
Whatwe need to determine is hewmanyof these we need.
That's the reason I said we need to study, we need to
see what we can find. I would like very muchto find
close to a pair for the two front opposing rooms, you
knew. Andthen we'll consider what we locate as to
whether we can relate it to the room. It's got to be the
right size, it's got to fit in the chimneybreast,
everything is iJnrx>rtantin getting themexactly right and
then doing a detail and elevation of that wall, so that
wewill knew. All of that is a study so wewill get the
right results.
Don't you think that coal was probably used a gooddeal?
Coal fires? Andwe knowthat at one time Franklin stoves
were used, and they must have just hookedup to that ---
Manyof these fireplaces had hearth grates whichwere
designed for coal.
Wewere reusing the marble.
Whatkind of rroneyare we talking about if we actually
locate sane goodmarble rrantels?
Probably, if you find a marble mantel, probably less
than it wouldcost to have one made. I wouldsay --- MDA Ii }'
I don't even knowwhat it wouldcost to have one made.
NOTICEThiS material may beprotected bV c<lPV1'igh\1_ITitle 17U.S. Code).
/
Jones:
Wise:
Jones:
Chastain:
Jones:
Lewis:
Wise:
lewis:
Wise:
Capers:
Wise:
Lewis:
Well, I tell you, with marhle conpanies today, it wouldn't
be cheap, would it, Mr. Wise?
No, sir. I have no idea what it would cost.
I can't answer your question exactly, Mr. Truly, because
it depends on where you locate it. If you locate it in
a small ..• I knowof the existence of one that's just been
taken out of a house in Goshen, NE!W'York, through Mr.
Barry Trace at the ~tropoli tan Museum... wing. I haven't
seen it, but he says it is a beautiful marrte.Lmadeout of
Pennsylvania marble which, of course, was called King of
Prussia •.. quite pretty. This manbe.Lin this book you saw
there is madeout of black and gold and is an Italian
marble1 but these were done and imported for this market.
Are you sure, are you going to study these, or is it
your idea that somebodyis going to study these IPa.ntels
IOC>reto see if any of them could have been original?
I would IOC>stcarefully examinethe mantels we have,
particularly no.N that they've been taken out.
Youdo not propose to removethese mantels?
They've all been removed.
They've all been removed?
Yes, sir.
They're there.
They're set aside.
In other words, the grate openings are there, the fire-M DA Hlace openings are all that are there. You've taken the
NOTICEThis matenal may beprOlected bv copyrtghtlaw (Title 17 U.S. Code).
/
Wise:
Lewis:
Jones:
Lewis:
Jones:
Lewis:
Jones:
capers:
Jones:
mantels out?
That is correct. Yes, sir. All the mantels and trim and
stone.•. wehave them.
Well, what 1"msaying is that we're leaving this as a
dangling point, and that's the reason I asked if, on the
changes, Mr. WiseI s office has got to put it in, because
whenwe say "study," we've got to determine right nowthe
easiest thing.
Well, you see, in spite of what Ed says, I don't have
these things stashed away! You'vegot to find them, and
youIve got to find themthat fit the chimneybreast and
are properly scaled to the room.
In your looking for furniture, wouldyou have an oppor-
tunity to touch on such things as mantels?
Oh, yes, definitely. I plan to do that.
In other words, at the rrorrent,you will be looking for
mantels.
Thenif I can get a three-fourths scale elevation of that
wall, I can draw in the mantels I get, sketch themin,
and be sure that they will work, you see.
Wehave sorrechoice... I asked Mr. Jones earlier ... suppose
we think that white will be prettier than black, or that
black will be prettier than white... but he's working
tcmard a period thing ---
Well, that depends, Charlotte, on whatwe find, what
we're able to locate.
NOTICE
/
Chastain:
Jones:
Neal:
capers:
Jones:
Chastain:
Jones:
Neal:
Jones:
capers:
•
All right, sir, so at any rate, you're going to be look-
ing for mantels. Okay,what about the cornices and
ceilings?
Well, they're going to have to be created, if they're
foLl.owiriqnineteenth century precedent.
Well, he's suggesting here, you see, that what wehave
there nOVlI that Terrell was going to replace exactly "as
was," is inappropriate to the 1841Greek Revival period.
Don't forget the point about the ceilings.
I think sorreof it might be. I just saw it for a brief ... I
guess wewere in there thirty minutesI weren't weI Mr.
Chastain? My feeling about it was that sorreof it could
be original, sene of it was elaborated on in 1908, or in
a later addition it was altered.
Doyou think that it was a simpler cornice?
I think the chances are ... you see, this house is Greek
Revival, and it demandeda simple, direct approach. See
howsimple the door trim is, except for the ornanental
doors that cone in fromthe entrance hall.
I think that you're going to find that those lambs'
tongues and grapes were put in there in late nineteenth
century.
Probably were.
That wouldbe in 1857, and that's what we've determined
and that's why... see, they were put in because of the ga·.
NOTICEThis material may beprotected by copyrIghtlaw (Title 17 U. S. Codl).
/
pipes, whenwe got gas lights, and weknewthat. I rrean,
that's what our records show, that gas lights wereput in
in 1857.
Jones: See, there's a cornice of 1840.
Truly: Well, the thing .•• I think it wasput there probably in
1857 I and it's too gaudy. I never did like it.
Jones: I think you'll find your earlier cornices sirrpler.
capers: Sirrple and white•••this gold stuff ..• but that wasplanned
there to cover the gas pipe whengas was put in in 1857.
Truly: I'm going to tell you, really. Now, this is one place
WhereCharles Peterson and I disagreed. Wedidn't fall
out, but we disagreed. Hekind .of liked that stuff.
Didn't he, Ed?
Neal: Yes. Well, based on his corrmentsand guidance, we left
it.
Truly: That's right, and that was all right with Irei I was
willing to take it, but I'm just as glad that it carre
dcwn, if you.want to knowthe truth about it.
Jones: I think that correct ornamentalplaster is an important
thing to the mansion, but ~ first reaction whenI saw
that was that there were alterations madeat a later
date. It wasn't all pure.'
Truly: That maybe. It was just too gaudyfor ~ tastes. Now
this is where•.. let Ire ask you this about these center-
pieces. Charlotte tells Ire that she had discussed with
NOTICEThis materia4 may beprotected bV copyrightlaw (Title 17 U. S. Code).
/
you the question about lowering those ceilings a little
bit so that we could have conduits for lights.
capers: Youknow, the board gave you all permission. Youasked
us about that, but I asked --
Jones: I prefer not to see the ceiling heights altered if it's
possible to get anything in without altering them.
Neal: We need about an inch and one-half or two inches.
Jones: Becauseyou changeyour relationship with these windows.
Yousee, these windowsare very tall here, they go very
close to the ceiling and ---
Neal: Wechecked that.
Jones: Andthat two inches maybe a very important part of the
cornices.
capers: You've got to get your cornices in.
JOnes: I think if you retain ... if you can bring your conduits in
and get thembetween the joists ... you've only got one
conduit to get in there ... that affects the center of the
room.
Neal: No, we do have someothers.
Jones: Well, you can run conduits around the roomin the comers,
and the cornices will cover it.
Neal: Well, in any case, we.•• in .other words, you feel like
that might be like the extra two inches on the end ofMDAHyour nose?
capers: Yes!
).
/
Jones:
Truly:
capers:
Chastain:
Jones:
Chastain:
Jones:
That's right, that's right. My personal opinion is to
let's keep this historic Part of the mansionjust as
close to the original as wepossibly can.
'Whatis all this noise I keep hearing? Soundslike a ---
It's the return air!
Becauseour time is limited, I want to skip to one down
here because the matter of the scoring and the slag
cement is really sorrething that we've really kind of
touched upon. The captain's walk is awayfrom us for
awhileI and the side entrance is awayfrom us, but the
windowsare not. Now,you had sane comrents about the
wi.ndcscs that were there I Mr. Jones, that I'd like for
your to just repeat. Wedon't want to rerrovesomething---
The instructions in the specifications at present instruct
. Mr. Wise to take out those windowscompletely and replace
them.
Youmeanthat's the sash and all?
Everything. Accordingto Mr. Johnson's instructions.
Takeout everything, and I'm convincedthat those windows
are essentially first period I and that we ought to retain
them. The sashes, now, need to be replaced, but they
ought to be replaced with heart longleaf yellCMpine. I
believe we can get the materials to have themreconstruc-
ted with. The details of the mmtans should be in the
character of an 1840GreekRevival house, and those oug
to be replaced; but the windowsthernselves, the frarres
NOTICEThis material may beprotected by copyrightIItW /Title 17 U. S. Code).
/
Chastain:
Jones:
Wise:
Chastain:
Jones:
Chastain:
Wise:
Lewis:
and all, definitely not! I'm sure that they're first
period.
Well, what this is really saying, Terrell, is this is
doing less to the windowsthan anticipated and buying
less materials.
That's right.
Well, this is the truth, in part.
Yes, well, I knowit sounds simpler than it is. I recog-
nize this.
Of course, if Mr. Wisefinds that one of the sills is
rotted, I say wehave to replace it. But let's replace
it with heart longleaf yellow pine.
Couldwe give this direction, which is in conflict with
the specifications?
If he tells Ire to, yes, sir. Whatwe're doing, Jim, on
these particular windowsof whichyou speak, ~ are not
going to removethose right now. Wewere going to leave
those to maintain the weather on our building, see,
because if not, we'd be open to the elerrents. You'vegot
a short period of t.irne that this will be just kind of a
mootquestion.
Let Ire hastily run by you here what wewere thinking
on that. Wedid not know,because we had not tom into
the wall, to knowhowmanyof those frames might be de-
teriorated. To keep fromhaving a lot of additive change
orders, ~ had put in there that the frarres wouldbeNOTICE
This material mav beprotected bv copyrightlaw ,Title 17 U. S. Code).
MDAH
/
Wise:
Lewis:
Wise:
Capers:
Lewis:
Wise:
Lewis:
Wise:
Chastain:
Wise.
rerrovedas well as the windows. The trim we anticipated
saving, except for the base. Wethought we'd have to
rerrove the base in order to level the floor. Anticipating
that we'd have a "clerk of the works" there, we could
then take each of those windowsout and check them to see
if, in fact, those frames were used; then wewould have
somebasis to carneback and negotiate with Terrell.
Wewouldn't want Mr. Johnson to go downthere and take
them all out.
No. That was never our intention, to take the windows
out.
Don't take the windowsout, Pete.
Save the windows!
But we had to have something in there to be covered, be-
cause if you comeback with a change-order.... There are
the last two i terns on here that are touchy, and I think
one of the things we'd like Terrell to do is ask Mr.
Taylor, or Joe Scanlon, orsortebody what happens to us in
the difference in cost in Hondurasrrahoganyand poplar.
Youmeanwood?
Yes, just the cost of the proposition.
Let meoffer this suggestion on that. Let's don't rock
the boat on that right at this minute.
You're not going to run it tomorrow?
No, sir. Wehaven't given him the signed purchase order
NOTICE:litiS mdterlEll m sv beorOlp 'ed b < ,pyright~"1 'T.' • I A 1 .J S. Cede).
/
Chastain:
Neal:
Wise:
Neal:
Chastain:
Wise:
Neal:
Jones:
Chastain:
Jones:
Chastain:
back. Weivetold himhe's got a job, but let's get these
other little details workedout and try to get it all in
there.
Hardware,which is the last item, is pressing.
That is the rrost pressing.
Yes, sir, that is the rrost pressing thing.
Let Ire differentiate betweenthe original house and the
living quarters , family quarters. Weare looking to you
to help us. Of course, family quarters, too. But this
is a wholedifferent kettle of fish.
Haveyou got a schedule, or have you got a $15,000allowance?
Al.Iowanceis what I've got.
In the living quarters, the first family's quarters, are
you concernedabout the hardwarein that area in tenns of
its design as far as being compatible to the original
house?
I think that they should be compatible, and the best
quality we can get. Of course, there's very little good
hardwarema.detoday.
You're not talking , though, about trying to find, say,
find old pieces and have replicas madefor that portion
of the house.
No, I don't think that it wouldbe practical for the
newaddition at all.
The only place we're talking about pieces to be found,
or replicas made, is for the original building?..• .
AH
/
Jones:
O1astain:
Lewis:
Jones:
Wise:
Neal:
Wise:
Original building.
NowI can we go ahead and makethe decision on the hard-
ware for the family portion so that he can get that stuff
on order, because that takes forever to get.
Howcan we cone to an understanding of what to do 111 the
newportion of the mansion?
Well, I think we ought to attempt to find sane newhard-
ware that's closely related to what's available in old
hardware. Of course I that's not easy to do now. Noneof
the mainhardwaremanufacturers makeit. I don't know
whether Corbin or Russell and Erwin makeit, or sane of
those others, nay makea lock that simulates 111 sane way.
It should be a rrortd.se lock and should have a simple trim
with a key escutcheon that relates to what... I found this
morningthat two of those locks in the entrance were
original, original to the rransion. I'd like to get per-
mission to have one of those taken out so that I could
take it with me to see if I can find sane that will match
it.
Now,the pressing point is to coordinate our hardware
with our metal door. Nowthis is sanething we'll need
out there. Youmight alleviate the press of time here if
you rrakea determination you're going to use a certain
size ---
That's just utilitarian stuff you're talking about, isn't·
it?
Right.NOTICE
Thl~ materla,1 may be"rotfcted by copyright,,~w(Title 17 U.S. Code)... OAH
/
Chastain:
Wise:
Jones:
lewis:
Wise:
Neal:
Wise:
Jones:
Wise:
Jones:
Wise:
•
Is all of that located in the storage area?
Yes, sir.
I wouldn't worry about that. I'd go ahead and order
that.
Now,that's the garage you're speaking of?
Yes, sir.
Garageand basement.
Nowthen, beyondthat, there is one critical thing that
will be pressing, and that's the track for those doors,
because very shortly, if we start back with our plaster,
we've got to have that.
I'm glad you brought that up. '!hat's an item that I
definitely wantedto rrention. The tracks that you get
today, and the rollers you get today, are inadequate to
support those heavydoors. AsMr. Johnsonpointed out to
methis morning, those tracks are still in goodcon-
dition, the pulleys originally having been wood. If we
can get sorrebodyto rranufacture those pulleys in rretal,
say bronze, and replace those and leave the original
tracks in there, it will be muchrmre satisfactory for
those big heavy doors.
Mr. Jones, on your rollers ~ nowthis is not restoration,
but the practical side. Couldyou use nylon rollers?
Well. .. but I think. that most of the nylon rollers made
today are about that big.
No, I rreanthat these 'WOuldbe madefor this size, and1111 filar'1"j ,
protected t·y GOO 'uJaw/Tit'e 1
/
Neal:
Wise:
Jones:
Wise:
Neal:
Wise:
Truly:
Jones:
Capers:
Lewis:
Jones:
Lewis:
Jones:
Lewis:
weight door, because it's mybelief that it would tend to
lubricate itself and makefor a muchmore functional
thing. Andthey're dead to sight, you can't tell what's
there, and use our track, but use a roller that's heavy
enoughto take the door.
I believe you can get those.
Yes, sir. I believe we.can get this simply by unscrewing
the bolt and screwing the other one back on.
Well, see what you can find.
Well, then, could you do this? Couldyou makea hard-
ware selection since it's basically removedfrom the
original house?
We'll have to take bids on that, won't we? Wealways do.
Yes, but we can't conmit ourselves to anybodyhere, and
we're not talking about but a handful of hardware. Why
don't we just buy it?
Wedon't want Mr. Jones to miss his plane, but ---
Well, as delightful as your companyis ---
Mr. Jones, just get up!
Did you say five o'clock?
Yes, I've got to be at the ai.rport; at five o'clock, and
I don't knowhowlong it tilkes.
Weshould have had you a year ago, Ed.
Well, I wish you had. I wish you had.
Well, I wish we had, too, because we've had to go uncharted
on a lot of these things.NOTIce
This materialorOfe"ted b may be
~ Y COpyright·Wv ITitle , 7 U.S, COde).
/
Truly:
Jones:
Neal:
capers:
wise:
Johnson:
Jones:
capers:
Jones:
Wise:
Jones:
Truly:
capers:
Jones:
You're going to get him copies·of all these things he
wants, aren't you? You're workingon that?
I would like to have... Ed said you're workingon sorre
docurrentarydrawings for historic Arrericanbuildings, and
I'd like to have a copyof this, if I my. Anddo you
think you can give mea quarter-scale, I rreana three-
quarter scale, as is, of the front entrance?
Yes.
That's the original plaster rrolding fromthe music roan.
Pete, I believe the pipes were behind this, weren't they?
This was in the foyer, here.
It's a little earlier detail than that. Yousee, that's
a late •.. that's about 1860.
That's an 1857 one•.. I think that's earlier.
This? Not necessarily, not necessarily. It could have
been an earlier one. I think the painting and the gild-
ing has changedits character. ]'X) you have enoughof
these that I could have one of these? Or is this all
you've got?
No, sir. Surprisingly, we've got every piece that's corre
out, havenI t we, Pete?
Good! Good!
You're learning to be a restoration authority.
MDAHHe is! He's really impressedme!
(TapeInterference)
My suggestion is that you don't have any rrodels or an OTICr•.· e'"$ rnar-·w"8'ma ••.•.
DrOtecreo bY"'"'''11\> ITitle ,; UCO/JVright
.s, COde,.
/
Wise:
capers:
Jones:
Truly:
Wise:
capers:
Truly:
Wise:
capers:
Jones:
capers:
~.
rmlds madeat all until this is ---
Whatwe've done',we've gone in and cut each cornice and
madea template of it as it existed. We'vetaken pic-
tures of it, and this had to comedown... and this was
individual pieces that cane down... so we've got a good
bi t of it, and not all of it is in as good shape as this,
because a lot of it had been fractured.
This is a whole lot prettier than this, isn't it? This
is a heavier work.
It's an earlier detail.
This gilding is a better looking gilding than that one
is.
Let mehasten to say that mysecretary helped regild
this. She finished it just before I brought it over
here.
That's whyit looks so fresh --
That's whyit looks clean.
Andwhenwe get through with what 'Wedon't need, 'We'll
put them in a little plaque back there, and the people
that were involved in this ---
I'd love to have one of them.
I'm so excited about this! .
Edward, let mehear fromyou. Giveyour wife mybest
regards. Bring her next time.
/1;ID'AHNoTlce
r"is material may be" (It~t!';d by COpyright'.,' ,r,tlP.17 U S r-:••_
• • 'VVUCI).
/
ise:
If I can get Chastain to take rre to the airport ---
I'll be glad to 'run you to the airport.
Jones: Well, I've got a little talking to do to him. I appre-
ciate it, though.
(Transcribedby MaryH. Mingee)
MDAh
/