Announcer: BulletproofRadio,astateofhighperformance.

DaveAsprey: Today'sepisodeisprofoundlycool.You'regoingtohearfromadoctorwhodoesn'tbelieveinPTSD.He'sgotareallyconvincingcaseforthat.You'regoingtolearnwhattodoifyougethitinthehead.You'regoingtohearfromaspecialforcesGreenBeretabouthisexperienceswithtraumaticbraininjury.You'regoingtolearnalotofthingsyoucoulddotomanageinflammationinyourbrain.Thisepisodeisoneofthoseyouwanttolistentothewholethingbecauseit'sjustnonstopinformationthatyoucanuse.Ihadafantastictimedoingthisinterview.Ithinkyou'regoingtoloveit.Listenthroughallthewayandgetallthebenefits.

You'relisteningtoBulletproofRadiowithDaveAsprey.Today'scoolfactofthedayisthatthere'ssomenewpromisefortraumaticbraininjurypatientswhohavelostmemoryfunction.You'dbesurprised.There'salotofpeoplelistening,maybeevenyou,whohavehadtraumaticbraininjuryatsometimeinyourlifeandyoudon'tevenknowit.Weseesometimesupto90%ofpeoplewhoaredoingthe40YearsofZenbraintrainingwithevidencethatthey'vebeenhitintheheadbutthey'restillfunctioning,butthere'ssomethingthatisn'tasgoodasitcouldbe.

Itturnsoutinthisnewresearch,DARPA,theresearcharmoftheDepartmentofDefenseistryingtohackbrainfunctioninaprogramcalledRestoringActiveMemory,whichisfunny.ItstandsforRAMwhichiscomputermemory.Whattheydidistheyusedelectricalstimulationonthebrainwhichisn'tthatnew.Theyhaven'talwayshadthebestresults.There'salotofvariablesyoucanplaywith.Theresearchersherelookedtothesevariablesandfiguredoutwhy.Manytimeswhentheelectricalstimulationisputacrosstoyourbrain,thebrainisprocessingitsownelectricalimpulsesanditgetsinterrupted.Infact,itcouldevenimpairit.

InthisnewDARPAresearch,theyfiguredoutthatusingeSIMonlywhentheinjuredbrainsintheprocessofforgettinghowtomovetothenextcognitivestepfixtheproblem.Iftheydidthestimulationrightaftertheydetectedlowlevelincodingstatesrecall,performanceimproved.Basically,whenthebrainwasstartingtodrift,they'dzapittotellittopayattention.Ifyoufeellikeyoucanuseajoltwhenyouforgotsomething,well,itturnsoutyoumightactuallybeontosomethingandyourbrainwouldagreewithyou.I'veusedtheelectricalstimulationmyselfformanyyears.Ithinkithashelpedmybraintodowhatitcandotoday.

There'sallsortsofdifferenttypesandsortsofdifferentresearch.Tolookatwhatthebrainisdoingandthenapplytheelectricitytosomethingthat'stotallynewandmaybereallygroundbreakingforalotofthethingsthatarehappeninginbothhealthybrainsandinjuredbrains.Speakingofbrains,beforewegetinto

today'sshow,ifyouhaveanotherchancetocheckoutNeuroMaster,it'sanewBulletproofsupplement.Yououghttocheckitout.Thishasaningredientthat'sshowntosignificantlyincreaselevelsofacompoundcalledBDNF,brain-derivedneutrophicfactor.Thesearekeyneuroproteinsforneuroncreationandsynapticbrainplasticity.ExerciseisonewaytoraiseBDNForNeuroMastercanraiseitfourtimesmorethanexercise.Irecommendyoudoboth,that'swhatIdo.Youcanfinditatbulletproof.com.It'scalledNeuroMaster.

ThisepisodeofBulletproofradioisbroughttoyoubySquattyPottywhobrilliantlyhasusalltalkingaboutpooping.Everybodypoopsandtheirmissionistohelpyoupoopbetteronestoolatatime.Humansweredesignedtosquatwhenpoopingandtwo-thirdsoftheworldstilldoes.TheSquattyPottystoolputsyouinanaturalsquattingpositionforafaster,betterandmorecompleteelimination.Yourcolon'ssweetspotcomeswithasquat.Thisistheonlypositioninwhichthepuborectalismusclefullyrelaxes.That'sthemusclethatkeepsyourpoopinsideuntilit'sgotime.Whenthecolonstraightensout,itallowsforcompleteeliminationwithoutstraining.

SquattyPottyisnotmeantonlyforpeoplewithgutorcolonissues.TheSquattyPottystoolisthebestadditiontoyourbathroomroutinetohelpyoupreventissuesandmaintaingoodhealth.Getthattoxiccrapoutcompletelyandyou'llavoidsomeoftheproblemsdowntheroad.IlovemySquattyPottyandIuseitdaily,sometimesmorethanonce.Infact,nowtheyhaveatravelportableversiontoaidwiththemiseriesthatcomewithtravelconstipation.Guys,I'mnotkidding.IactuallydohaveaSquattyPottyandIreallylikeit.Itsoundsalittlebitcrazybutit'stotallylegit.Getyourbuttoverthereandreceivea20%discountbygoingovertosquattypotty.com/bulletproof.Getyourdiscountof20%offbysquattypotty.com/bulletproof.I'mserious.It'sactuallysomethingyoushouldhaveinyourhouse.

Allright,I'msuperexcitedabouttoday'sshowbecausewe'vegottwoguestswhoareprettyamazing.ThefirstisDr.MarkGordon,who'saclinicalprofessoratUSC.He'samedicaldirectorattheMillenniumWarriorAngelsFoundationTraumaticBrainInjuryorTBIProject.Heisrecognizedasatopleaderworldwideinsomethingcalledinterventionalendocrinology,whatyouandIwouldcallanti-agingmedicine,anareawhereIspent20yearsrunninganonprofit.HewroteatextbookrecentlyentitledTheClinicalApplicationofInterventionalEndocrinologywhichisaboutaseasytoreadasthetitlemightsuggestbecauseit'sarealtextbook,notthesortofbookthatyouhaveoutthere.

Thisguyisbasicallyaclinicalbadass,youcansay.Oneofthereasonsheissuchathingisthathehimselfsurvivedtraumaticbraininjuryandspentthelast14yearslookingatwhathappensbetweenmildTBIorconcussionandhormonaldysfunctionthatchangesyourpersonality,decreasesmentalfunctioningandevencausesphysicaldecay.Bytheway,I'vehadacoupleofbighitstotheheadincludingatitaniumkneedtothesideofmyheadaboutayearago.IdidhavetoreallystepitoutmyselfbecauseIfeltsomeofthosechangeshappening.I'mexcitedtoseewhatIcanlearnhereformyownusestoday.

Oursecondguest,whoisontheshowatthesametime,isAndrewMarrwhoisaSpecialForcesGreenBeret.HereceivedaTBIincombat.HeisthefounderoftheWarriorAngelsFoundationandwroteabookthat'scomingoutsooncalledElevate:TheWayoftheWarriorAngel.Heisco-hosttoTheWarriorSoulPodcast.WAF,whichistheWarriorAngelsFoundation,andMarkGordonareworkingtogethertocorrectjustthishugeproblemofTBIinourveteransandinotherpeopleingeneral.Justfromapersonalperspective,I'mreallyhappytohavethemontheshowtosupportWAFbecausesomanypeoplecomebackfromcombatwhomighthavebeenkilled30yearsagoandinsteadthey'renotdeadbutthey'rerattled.

They'renotjustemotionallyrattled.They'rephysicallyrattledinsidetheheadwhichreflectsitselfemotionallywhichisadifferentthing.Tobeabletorecognizethatanddoaresearchisprofoundlyimportantforbringingpeoplebackallthewaytowherethey'recapablebeing.

Guys,welcometotheshow.

MarkGordon: ThanksDave.Appreciatebeinghere.

AndrewMarr: It'sapleasureDave,thankyou.

DaveAsprey: NowthatfirstvoiceyouheardwasMarkandthesecondonewasAndrew.YoucantellbecauseAndrewjustsoundslikeaGreenBeret,Idon'tknow…

AndrewMarr: We'lltakeit.

MarkGordon: Whenyouseehim,you'llknowheisGreenBeret.He'sjusttowering.

DaveAsprey: Yeah,towering.Hegotthecooltatsanddefinitelylookslikehecouldsqueezemeinhisbicep.

MarkGordon: Yougotit.

DaveAsprey: Speakingofwatchinghim,ifyouwanttowatchthisepisode,youcangotobulletproof.com/youtubeandthatwilltakeyourighttotheYouTubechannelwheretheshowislisted.Iwanttojumpinonjustthefar-reachingimpactoftraumaticbraininjuryandtogettheir…fromamedicalperspective,whatisthedefinitionofatraumaticbraininjurythewayyouseeitnowMark,givenyourownexperienceandgivenyourclinicalexperience?

MarkGordon: It'sagreatquestionbecausethere'salotofconfusionaboutwhatreallyisatraumaticbraininjury,TBI.Peoplethinkthatit'sbeingknockeddownunconsciousorbeingknockeddownnotnecessarilyunconsciousbutwakinguporgettingupandbeingconfused,headache,nausea,andvomiting.Whatwe'refindingisthatonlyhappensinabout15%ofthepeople…

DaveAsprey: Wow.

MarkGordon: …but85%,it'smildformoftraumaticbraininjurywheretheygetknockeddownandtheystandup.Theybrushthemselvesoffandtheygobackintothegameoryou'rewatchingMMAandyouseetheseguysgettingknockeddown,theystandupanddoitagain.Traumaticbraininjuryhasaspectrum.Thegroupthatwelookatisthe85%whichisthemildform.Whathappenseitherimmediatelytoover17yearswhichhasbeendocumentedistheinitialphysicaltrauma,beinghit,whetherornotit'sabaseballbattothehead.

Yesterday,Ihadsomeonewhowashitinthebackoftheheadbyahardballwhileplayingbaseball,oramotorvehicleaccidentwheretheydon'thittheirheadbuttheyarethrownforwardandbackandmaybethebackoftheheadhitsthebackoftheseat.Whathappensovertimeistheystartdevelopingchangesinpersonality,whichagaincantakeupto17years.Whattheunderlyingcauseofthatistheprocessofinflammation.It'stheinflammationthatisnowbeinglookedatverycloselyasbeingprecipitatingcauseforthingslikeOCD,depression,autism,bipolar,schizophrenia.Inflammationisthekey.That'swhyproductslikeNeuroMasterwhichincreasedBDNFisasignificantapproachtoaddressingtheinflammation.

DaveAsprey: InflammationissomethingthatItarget.EverythingIdointheBulletproofdiet,myanti-agingregimen,justafterlearningfrommany,manyexpertsandlosingahundredpoundsofweightandgettingridofthearthritisI'vehadonmykneessinceIwas14.Anytimeyouseeinflammation,amuffintoparoundyourpantsthatwasn'tthereyesterday,that'sinflammation.HowdoyouknowifthatinflammationismirroredinyourbrainandisitgoingtobeworseifyouhadaTBI?

MarkGordon: Well,itismirroredinourbiochemistry.Wehaveapanelof28biomarkersthatwedo.Thebiomarkersarerelativetohowtheinflammationinterruptsthechemistryofthebrain.Wedoneurosteroids.Neurosteroidsarethehormonesthatareproducedspecificallybycellsinthebrain,whetherornotit'swecallglialcellsorneurons,theactualneurotransmittingcells.Therearethreechemicalteststhatwe'venowaddedtoourprotocolwhichlooksspecificallyforinflammationinthebrainandbody.OneofthemiscalledIL6,Interleukin-6.Wikipediahasagreatdiscussionofit.

IL-1betaandtumornecrosisfactor-alphawhichhasbeenfocallylookedatforcausationofpsoriasis,Crohn'sdisease,rheumatoidarthritisandtherearemedicationsthatareoutthere,injectablemedications,toadjustthatoneinflammatorychemical.Wehavealotofchemistry,fromglutens,asyouwellknow,glutenscausesinflammation.Theycreateacascadeofinflammatoryproductsthatleadtothebloatingofthebodyandinfluencethebrain.Thegut-brain,asyouwellknow,areconnected.

DaveAsprey: IknowthatifIdostuffthatmakesmeinflamed,I'mmuchmorelikelytoactlikeajerk.WhenIwasinflamedallthetimeasayoungman,Iactuallydidactlikea

jerkprettymuchallthetime.There'sinmeacoreassociationbetweeninflammationandmedoingthingsthatIdon'tlikedoing.Icanseeitwithmykidsthattheydostuffthatmakestheminflamed.Theydon'tsleepaswell.Theylookpuffywhentheywakeup.They'relittlehellions.Mostofthetimewhentheyeattherightstuffandthey'renotinflamed,thewayallkidsarewhichistheyactuallywanttobeniceandtheywanttolearnandgrow.Howdopeopleknowif,allright,I'mfeelingofftoday…howdotheyknowifit'sinflammationorsomethingelse?

MarkGordon: Obviously,havingaphysicianwhodealsinthisandhavingthemcheckedoutwouldbethebestwaytodoit.SpeakingaboutthisInterleukin-6andwhatyousaidaboutchangeinpersonality,therearestudiesthatarelookingatgenericinflammatorydiseasesforone,rheumatoidarthritis,fortwo,lupus.Theyseeapatternofpsychologicalchangesinthesepeoplefrompsychosistodepressionandit'sallduetoachemicalInterleukin-6.Yougetacold,youfeelsmarterorlesssmart?

Well,ifyoufeellesssmartlike99%ofthepeoplewhowilladmitto1%whowillsayI'mbrilliantallthetime,whathappensistheInterleukin-6interruptsanareaofthebrainthatdealswithourcognitionandwhereintellectualcautioncomesfromIQ.Itdecreasestheintellectualcaution.Simplephytofromplant-basedproductcalledDHEAdropstheInterleukin-6productionandcanimprovethatfogginessthatyoufeelduringthecoldorduringanyinflammatoryprocess.

DaveAsprey: Wouldyourecommendthatifpeoplearefeelingbrainfogfromashort-terminjuryorshort-termresponsetoaninfection,maybetaking5mgofDHEAjusttodealwiththebrainfog?

MarkGordon: Wedoabout25to50.It'sallbaseduponlaboratorytesting,5mgisagoodstart,50mgisagreatarea.Researchthat'sbeendoneatUCLAandelsewhereformultiplesclerosis,1,200mgofDHEAtohelptreatit.Chronicuseofit,youdon'tgetcold.I'vebeensick9daysin17years.

DaveAsprey: ItookDHEAforthefirsttimewhenIwas18yearsoldandI'm44now,sowhileago,butIlooklikeI'm30.No,I'mkidding.WhatIfoundwasitactuallyreallynegativelyaffectedmysexdrive.Sincethen,there'sbeenthreeorfourtimesbecauseI'mananti-agingguywhereI'mlike,I'mgoingtotryDHEA.Everytime,Igrowmanboobslikealmostinstantly.Ifoundthatinmyownaromatizationpathways,thisishowourbodyconvertstestosteronetoestrogenprettymuch.IfItakeDHEA,Icangetestrogen.Ilooked,I'llgrowaroundbuttifIdothatfortwomonths.It'sdisturbing.I'vejustcautionedpeoplelistening.Iwanttogetyourtakeonthatbutjustcautionpeoplelistening,getyourlevelstestedifyou'regoingtogoonDHEAespeciallyforlongerterm.Anyway,that'sthewarning.Youdon'twantmanboobslikeme.

MarkGordon: That'sagoodwarning.Inyouruniquecase,therearetwopathwaysthatDHEAgetsmetabolized.One,theleftpathwaywe'dcallitwhichgoesthroughandrostenedionetoestroneandontherightsideitgoesfromDHEAto

testosteroneandthentoestradiol.InpeoplewhohaveanacceleratedconversionfromDHEAtotheestrone,wegivethem7-KetoDHEAwhichlocksthat.Thenyougetthebenefitofimmunestimulationandmorethermogenicsfromtheliverandfats.

DaveAsprey: Shouldeveryonejusttake7-Keto.I'veheardmoreoftenwomenshouldtake7-KetoversusregularDHEA.

MarkGordon: WomenaremorepronetothesideeffectsofDHEA.Ifawomanonlytakes7-Keto,she'llshutoffherDHEAandlosethebenefitssoyouneedtohaveacombinationofthetwo.Again,yousaiditrighton,youneedtobetestedbeforeyoustartanything.

DaveAsprey: Allright,thankyouforthat.I'vegottosaythis,DHEAisapowerfulhormonejustliketakingtestosterone.YoucanbuyitatWholeFoods.Thisisone,asabiohacker,nottomessaroundwithwithoutlabvaluesbecauseitmaytakeyoualongtimetogeteverythingputbacktogether.Again,there'snoreasonnottospend150buckstogetyourhormoneslevels.It'snotthatexpensive,justdoit.Ifyou'relisteningtothis,I'mgoingtodowhatDavedoes,seriously,dothat,allright.AstrongerwarningisIknowhowtogivegiventhebenefitsthatyoutalkedabout.

Now,wegotAndrewonthelineandwhatI'dliketodoAndrewishaveyoutellmeaboutwhathappenedtotheextent,youcantalkaboutitwithyourTBI.Reallyspecifically,IwanttoknowwhatdiditfeellikewhenithappenedandwhatdidyoufeelinyourselfafterwardsandthenwhatdidyoudoworkingwithMarktoturnyourbrainbackonandthenhowdidthatleadyoutoworkwithMarkforWAF?BecauseIthinkalotofpeoplelisteningwhomaybehaven'thadafulloncombatTBIordon'tunderstandthepressureofTBI,didn'tunderstandwhathappensbothatthemomentandinthestepsafterwards.Yourexperiencecouldbereallyilluminativeforallofus.

AndrewMarr: Great,happytoshareitDave.Again,thanksforaskingandhavinguson.Likeyousaidatthebeginning,IwastheSpecialForcesGreenBeretsomyspecialtywasexplosives.Furthermore,IwasthebreacherformyteamsoIwaschargedtoputtingsurgicalexplosivechargeonadeniedpointofentrydownrangeincombat.Thatcouldbeadoor,thatcouldbeawindow,thatcouldbeawallinadditiontotakingcareofwhat'scalledimprovisedexplosivedevices,IEDs.Iwasliterallyovertheentiretyofjustunder10yearsinSpecialForces,whatwecallshortforSF.Iwasinandaroundexplosiononaroutinebasis.Beforethat,IwasacollegeathletesoIplayedcollegefootball.

Iwasonlyknockedunconsciousonetimeincombatanditwasbrief.IrememberIcameto,becausewewereoutsideofthebuilding.Icouldn'tunderstandwhyIwaspronewithmyfacedown.ThenIcouldn'tunderstandwhythesunjustgotblottedoutfromtheskybecauseitwasaboutnoon.Ithought,ohmyGod,Imustbeinaroomorsomebuildingandthere'sanearthquakeorit'scollapsingonme.IputmyhandsupandIrealizedreally

quick,we'renotinsidebutstillIcouldn'tfigureoutwhatwasgoingonuntilbulletstartedwheezingbymyheadandincomingrocketpropelledgrenadesarecominginwhichtriggeredmetosay,"Okay,we'refighting."

Iwasrightbackatit,rightbackintothefightandwedidwhatwehadtodotogetoutofthatsituation.Afterwards,Ineverreallyhadanyissues,anynoticeableproblemsorcomplaintsuntilaboutsixmonthsaftermylasttrip.Thistime,Ihadbeenonanumberofcombatdeployments.Again,neverhadanysymptomsrelatedtobehavioralhealthissues,cognitiveissuesandthephysicalderailmentthatsoonfollowed.Sixmonthslater,outofnowhere,thefirstthingthathappenedDavewasIlostalllibidoandthatwasasa32-year-oldyoung,veryfitindividualwhichstruckmeasodd.Ijustkeptonmoving.

Ifigured,youknowwhat,mybodyhadtookinthebeatingoverthelastsixmonthsandit'sjustgoingtotakesometimetocomebackonline.Fromthere,Ijustgotcompletelydepletedofanyenergytogetthroughtheday.Asahighenergyindividual,zonked,gone.Icouldn'tevenmusterenoughtogetoutofbed.Fromthere,Istartedtohavecognitivedifficulties,memorydifficulties.Thereallyhardparttodealwasthisforthefirsttimeever,mythoughtsandmyactionsweren'tinalignmentandIcouldn'tfigureoutwhy.WhenIraisemyhandandIsaid,"Hey,Ineedsomehelp."

Whatthatgotmethroughthemilitarymedicalmodelwasbeingthathighperformerinsituationsoflifeanddeathandwakingupsixmonthslaterfindingmyselfon13medications.Iwasalcoholic.Icouldn'tgotosleep.Icouldn'tstayawake.Mywifewasninemonthspregnantwithourlastchildorfifthchild.ShehadtoaskmeifIcouldkeepmydrinkingdownforthedayincaseshewenttolaborsoshewouldn'thavetodriveherselftothehospital.Thingsonlygotworsefromthere.ThatwasacyclewhereIwentfromahighperformer,nopriorproblemswithanyofthethingsIjusttalkedabouttolifecompletelyoffthetrack,resortingtoalcoholjusttotrytomaintainsomeevenkillthroughouttheday.

DaveAsprey: Didyouthinkofitasapersonalormoralfailingbecauseyoujustweren'ttryinghardenough?

AndrewMarr: No,absolutelynot.Basedonpastexperiences,IhadthisstandardofperformancewhereIwassetonperformingandcontributingtothebestofmyabilitiesandsoIknewthatwasn'tanissue.

DaveAsprey: Youknewthatwasn'tit.You'reararebirdthere.Mostpeoplefeelwhenthathappens,they'relike,itmustbeme.MaybeI'mjustnottryinghardenough.There'salotofguiltthatcomeswiththat.Youknewsomethingwaswrongandyouknewitwasn'tacoreissuewithyou.You'relike,whatthehell.Okay,sothat'swhereyouwereat.That'sactuallyareallyanunusualandalmostanenlightenedperspectiveonwhereyoufoundyourselfwhichisprobablyagiftthat'swhyyou'redoingwhatyou'redoingnowbecauseyoumaintainthat.Whatdidyoudonext?You'reinadarkplace,you'reself-medicatingandyou're

medicatingwithdoctors.Youdon'tlikewhat'sgoingon.Yourthoughtsandyouractionsdon'tmatch,whathappennext?

AndrewMarr: Well,Icametoacrossroad.Mywifewenttolaboratthesametimeasoursonhadageneticconditioninhisneckthatswelleduptothesizeofagrapefruit.Wetookthemintotheemergencyroom.Mycalf,myrightcalfhadbeenkillingmeatthatpointforthelastthreedays.Well,itturnsoutIhadamassivedeepveinthrombosis,abloodclotinmycalfthatbrokeoffintobothlungs.Iwouldn'ttakeanyattentiononmyselfuntilmyson,whohadtogointoemergencysurgeryuponthefourthfloorofthehospitalwheremywifewasgivingbirthonthesecondfloor.

I'mgoingbackandforthatthesametimewhilemysonisinemergencysurgeryonhisneck,Beckyisgivingbirthonthesecondfloor,andIhavebloodclotsinmycalf,inmylungs.I'mdraggingmylegatthispointbecauseit'snotworking.IwasinsuchabadstatethatIrememberedbeingatmyson'shospitalbed.ItookthelastpowerfulopioidthatIevertook.Ichaseditwithanairplanebottleofwhiskeywhichwasmynormal.ImademysonandmyselfapromiseandIsaid,thisisgoingtogooneortwoways.IfIkeeponthissamepath,it'sgoingtokillmeandit'sgoingtoruineverythingIlove.

IcanthendecideifI'mgoingtocontinuetojustwholesale,takeeverythingthatthemedicalmodelisgivenme,orIcandecidetoactandchannelallthisnegativityandhatethathadgrownupandchannelthatintosomethingproductive.Forme,Dave,thatwas,IcannolongerbeaGreenBeretbecauseI'vehadtoomanyheadinjuries.IwanttobeafatheragainandIwanttogetoffthismedication.Iwanttofindawaytogetbacktomypre-injurystatusandhelpotherstodothesamething.Thatlineofthinkingiswhatpulledmeoutofit.Istartedtogooutsidethemilitarymedicalmodel.Ihadtoputinforleavebecausemyunitwouldn'tsupportmetogetoutsidehelp.

Wehadtogetnewcreditcardstopayforallthedifferenttreatments.ButIdidn'tcare,becauseIwasgoingtofindawaytoimprovemyself.Takingthosestepsgotussomepress,Markreadit.Hecontactedmeandhebasicallysaid,"Hey,we'vebeentreatingTBIsuccessfullynotonlyinthecivilianpopulation,butintheveteranpopulationnowforafewyears."HepassedmesomeinformationofpodcastshehaddonewithJoeRogan.Thiswaswhat?Endof2014.Ineverknewwhatapodcastwas.Iwasbusyfightingwarsanddoingwhatever.Ijustsaid,"Okay,I'lllisten.IknewwhoJoeRoganwas."

Ilistenedtothat,andhehadanavycorpsmanontherewhobasicallyhad…hewason17medications.HehadabadgoinAfghanistan,gotgunshot,shrapneltotheface,attemptedsuicide,heardMarktalkthroughoneofthemediaprograms,gotontheprotocol.Withineightweeks,hewasoffof13medicationsandperformingatahighlevelagain.Icannowsaythatthatgentlemanissupportedthroughthefoundation.Heisoffallmedication,andactingandscreenwritingoutinLA.ThatwasthefirsttimeIsaid,thisisn'tspecialtome.Thereisactualunderlyingconditionthat'sbeenvalidatedandbackedby

science.AndifyoutreattheunderlyingconditionjustthewaythatMarkoutlines,thingsgetbetter.That'sexactlywhathappenedtome.Now,wehaveover200casesthatwe'vehelpedthroughthefoundationandMark'sdone1600timesthroughthecivilianpractice.It'swelldocumented,andthat'showwemergedupandhadtheideatobringthisonabiggerscaletotrytohelpmorepeoplewhoneededitdesperately.

DaveAsprey: Itfeelslikeasoftwareproblem,butit'sreallyahardwareproblem.Youfixthosegoingoninthebrain.Allofasudden,allofthestuffthatyouthoughtwasahigherlevelorIdecidedtothis,Ididn'tdoit,butitshifts.Ihadasimilarthing.IhadchemicallyinducedbraindamagefromlivinginahousewithtoxicmoldsbeforeIhavetheseotherTBIsandalotofthesameeffects,similarbehavioralthings.Alcohol,Iwasjustmaybemoreinflamed,itmademefeelworse.Thatwasanotherthingforme.Yourthoughtsandyouractionsjustdon'talignandyoudon'tknowwhy.Whenyouaddressthebrain,everythinggetsbetter.

WhenyouhookedupwithMark…ormaybeIwillaskMark.Mark,whenyouguysfirsthookedup,totheextentwe'renotviolatingHIPAAorsomethingsinceyou'rebothontheline.WhatdoyoudototakealookataguylikeAndrewwhohasthisobvioushistoryofTBI?Whatwasthefirstthingthatyouwoulddofromatestperspective?I'maskingthisbecausepeoplelisteningaregoing,maybethisisme,maybeIdidn'tgothatfarbutsomethingchangedayearafterIgotinacaraccidentorwhatever,Ifellandhitmyheadgolfing,orwhatever.What'sthefirstthingthatyoudid?

MarkGordon: ThefirstthingthatwedoacrosstheboardregardlessofthecausationfortheirTBI,whetherornotit'sx-rayexposure,medication,chemotherapyorbicycleoraskateboardaccidentorskiingorwaterskiingaccidentorsnowboarding,thesearethingswe'veseenrecently,iswerunabiomarkerpanel.It'stakenme12yearstodevelopthispanelandtointerpretit.Ijustgotfinishedwritingasoftwarepackage.Iusedtobeincomputerprogramming.Itanalyzesthelabsandgivesuswhetherornotthelevelofthehormonesfitwithinwhatisoptimallyhealthy.

Now,unfortunately,intraditionalmedicineorconventionalmedicalthinkingisthatifyouhavearangeofahormonebetween10and90,ifyoucomeinat11,you'renormal.That'snotnormal,eventhoughyouhavesymptoms,becausewe'renottreatingthepeople's,theperson'scomplaint,we'retreatingnumbers.Ourprotocolispersonspecific,everyindividualstaysanindividualandhowweassessthembaseduponcommonalityofinterpretation.Thenwhatwedoisbasedupontheresults,we'veputthemonaprotocolthatmightaddresssomeofthemissinghormonesorneurosteroidswithanaddedsteroidortestosteroneorinawomanestrogenorprogesterone.

Thensomeofthesupportivehormonesthatarenotbeingutilizedadequatelyenoughlikepregnenolone,DHEA.Whathappensis,weputthemontoaprotocol.Now,inAndrew'sspecificcase,hedroveupfromhavingvisitedabraintraumacenterorsomeplaceinSouthernCalifornia,cameup,drewhisblood

andIdidwhatwascalledatestosteroneprovocativetestorprovocativetestosteronetesting.It'sawaythatIcanseeinaveryshortperiodoftimehowwellthatapatientwilldowhenwegettheirtestosteronelevelstoanormalphysiologicallevel.Thisisn'tanabolicsteroidbodybuildinglevel.Thisisahumanbeing,ahuman'slevelnotasteroid.

Anyway,soIgavehimashot.HelefttogobacktoSanDiego,Ithinkitwas.Hehadtohitthe405Freeway.Now,anybodywhoknowsthe405Freeway,thatwouldcausesomeonewhoisonedgelikeAndrewwastoexplode,toloseit.He'sdrivingonthe405listeningtomusicrealizing,I'mdrivingandIfeelnothing.Whydon'tyoutellusAndrewexactlywhattranspiredafterthetestosterone?

AndrewMarr: Thatwasjustit.Forthefirsttimein18monthstotwoyearsIwaswithoutanxietyordepression.Tome,Ididn'thaveareasontohaveanxiety.Ididn'thaveareasontohavedepression.Itjustdidn'tadduptome.Ihadthisfistcomingoutofmystomachatalltimes.Withintwohoursoftheinjection,gone.ItwaslikeIwasback,likesomebodytookaledapronvestoffthatIusedtowearattheDennison,Icouldbreatheagain.IcalledmywifeasI'mgoingdownonthe405andwehadaconversationforaboutanhour.It'sthefirsttimethatwehadtalkedandmyreplieswerejustmorethanyesorno,inover18monthsortwoyears.

Thoseweresomeoftheimmediateimprovementsthatwesawthatjustcontinuedtobuilduponusaswegotthewholeprotocolgoing.YouknowDave,likeMarkissaying,justsuccumbingtoangerandrageasaresponsetothingsthatjustdon'tdictatethattypeofresponse.IrememberonceIwaswithmywifeandthreelittleonesatafastfoodrestaurantandthisisjustagoodexampleofhowitcangetoutofcontrolwhenthebrainisnotfiringonallcylinders.Therewassomeyoungguyoutthereabout18yearsoldwhoismakingasceneandusingfoullanguage,threwhiscupontheground.Forsomereason,IthoughtIhadtorightthatwrong.

IwentupthereandItoldhimtopickupthecup.Heusedsomeexpletives.Itoldhimtopickupthecupagain.Hesaidthesamething.ThenextthingIrememberwasIbackhandedhimandhefellonthegroundandIpickedhimupandIthrewhimintheoncomingtraffic.Thisishorrible,horriblebehavior,somethingthatIwouldneverdoinmyrightmind.That'swhenitdawnedonmewhenIlookedbackandIsawmywifebreastfeedingandmytwootherlittleonesinabsoluteshockandhorror.Irealized,youknowwhat,ifIcan'tgetitright,notonlyamIintroubleormyfamilyintrouble,peoplethatIcomeacrossonaroutinebasisaren'tsafeandthatjustdepictswhatcanhappenwhenthisinflammationrunsrampingandoutofcontrol.

DaveAsprey: ThetestosteronethingisprofoundbecausewhenIwas26,Iwenttoseeananti-agingdoctor.Iweighed300poundsanditwasn'tmuscle.Ihadexercisedmyassoffsixdaysaweek,anhour-and-a-halfaday.Icouldn'tlosetheweightnomatterwhatIate.Iwentin,andIhadlowertestosteronethanmymom.Itwasjustinthefloor.WhenIgotontestosteroneandthyroid,it'ssimilarfeelings

like,wow,Ifeellikemyselfagain.Ihavetheenergytobringit.I'vebeenontestosteroneforabout16inthelast20years.IwentoffitwhenIwasexperimentingwiththeBulletproofdietjusttoseehowitworked.

WhenIfirstwentontheJoeRoganshowforthefirsttime,mylittlejaroftestosteronecameinfrontofmebecausethisisbioidentical,physiologicalreplacementnot,“I'mgoingtogetjacked,dude”.Weendedupnoteventalkingaboutit.Itwasinterestingbecauseit'ssuchameaningfulthingforpeopletounderstand.Testosteroneisn'tsomethingforguyswhowantedtogetswelled,youcanuseitorderivativesofit.It'sactuallyaneurohormone.It'svaluableformenandforwomen.We'retalkinginlargerighthereabouttestosteroneformenbutawomanwhogetsTBI,whetherit'sincombatorjustinlife,isthereadifference?Imean,theystillneedsometestosterone.Doesitmatteroristhismoreaboutprogesteroneforwomen?

MarkGordon: No.Womenneedtestosterone.Oneofthelackofinformationforthegeneralpopulaceisthefactthatwelookatestrogenandtestosteroneandprogesteroneasbeinggenderhormonesorreproductivehormones.Well,itturnsoutthatthewaythatweget90%or91%ofourguysandgalstostopbeinganxiousisthroughuseofoneproductcalledpregnenolonewhichendsupdroppingtheinflammationofthebrain,improvingnerveconductivityandtheyfeelbetterinashortperiodoftime.Thereareothereffectsofpregnenolone,progesterone,testosterone,estradiol,anddihydrotestosterone.Itdropsinflammation.

We'venowfoundthattestosteronestimulatestheimmunesystem,specificallythecellscalledCD4andCD8,whichhelpdefendusagainstbacterialandviralinfections.Thenitdropsalltheinflammatorychemistryinourbodyandstimulatestheanti-inflammatorycomponentofourbody,whichispartoftheimmunesystem.Whatwe'refindingisnotonlyareyougettingthelibidobenefits,themuscularbenefitsbutyou'regettingtheenhancementofalltheseotherpathways.Anarticlethatcameoutacoupleofweeksagowhichechoedarticlesthathadcomeoutinthepastisifyou'retimidoryouhaveastartleresponse.Youknow,someoneclapstheirhand,youjumporyouhearacarbackfiringandyouseesomeonethinkingthatthey'rebeingattackedlikeaveteranwhocomesbackandtheycallthatPTSDwhichIdon'tbelievein.It'sduetothishormonaldeficiencies,andtheyfoundspecificallywheretheyworkinthebrain.Womenneeditjustasmuchasmen,butdosingdifferences,theamountisdifferent.

DaveAsprey: Whenyou'relookingatnumbersonthesepanels,bythewayonething,anytimeI'mworkingwithanexecutiveclientwhichIdon'tdoalotofthesedays,becauseI'verunningabigthereherethesedaysbutjustwithBulletproofreadersandlisteners.Ifwe'regoingtogetlabtests,gettinganadvancehormonepanelisreallyimportantsoyoucanseewhat'sgoingon.Theyalwaystellyou,you'renormalforyourage.I'mlike,I'llnotnormalfora30-year-oldwhenI'm140.Doyouascribetothatphilosophy?

MarkGordon: Well,you'rerighton.Thisiswhyweusethe25to35-yearagegroup.Lookat25to35-year-oldmaleorfemale.They'reintip-topshapeforthemajority.That'sbecausetheirhormonesareinoptimallevel.Asweage,becauseoftrauma,becauseofmedication,becauseofpoornutrition,becauseoflackofexercise,whathappensiswestartdecayinginthelevels.Whenwetakethebloodlevelofthe70-year-oldandweseeitnowat100whereat25yearsofageit's800,wesay,that'snormalforan80-year-oldtobeat100.Let'sputeverybodyat100.Whenwetakethe80-year-old,I'lltellyou,wehavea77-year-oldandweputhimontohormonalcorrection,heisnowonthebackyardchoppingwoodinBoston,Massachusetts.He'snowhavingsexagainwithhiswifeandheiscommunicating.He'sfeelingcalmascanbe.OneofouroldestVietnamveteranthatwe'vesponsored,incredibleimprovement.

DaveAsprey: Ilovethatanswer.Ifyou'relisteningtothisandgoing,well,that'scheating.You'reusingtestosteroneorwhatever.Yes,it'scheating.You'resupposedtodieafteryouhavekidsandgetoutofthewayforthem,unlessyouwanttodothatforGod'ssake.Yes,getyourlevelsandifyou'relevelslooklikeanoldpersonandyoudon'twanttobeanoldperson,thendosomethingaboutit.Allright,Igotoffmysoapbox.Thankyouforsayingthat.

Now,lastyearatBurningMan,Itookatitaniumkneedtothesideoftheheadwhilebeinglaunchedonabungeecordtowardsanotherpersonfrom10feetawayintheThunderDome.

MarkGordon: Yeah,it'sBurningMan.

DaveAsprey: It'saverycommonTBIthing.Itwasworthit,that'sallIcansay.IstillmaintainthatIwon.However,myopponent,whoshallremainnameless,shethinksthatshewon.Anyhow,withinfiveminutesofthisI'mlike,“Okay,Ican'tlookintheseblinkinglights,I'mnauseous,Ineedtoliedown”.Unfortunately,Icampwithabunchofanti-agingandnaturopathsandall.IwentbackandItookalltheFishOilanyonehadwiththemrightaway.Within36hours,Iwasonahighdoseofprogesteroneasashorttermcoursefortreatment.ItookeverymitochondrialenhancerIhad.

Fortunately,ImanufacturedthemwithBulletproof-so10KetoPrimes,10UnfairAdvantages,andanythingtopreventthatshorttermdamage.IrecoveredfasterfromthisthanIhavefrommypreviousTBI,muchfaster.Ididsomeneurofeedbacktogetmybrainbackon,beforeandafterneurofeedbackthingsandithelps.Ihave$100,000neurofeedbackgearrightoverthereoffcamera.IrananeurosciencethinginSeattleforexecutives.Ihaveresourcesthatotherthan…Idon'tknowwhoelsehasthatweirdstuff.ThisisthemostvaluablethingIknowof,iscontrolofyourhormones,controlofyourbiology,andcontrolofyourbrainbecauseitletsyoudowhatyou'reheretodo.That'swhyIinvestwaymorethanIshould.WhatelseshouldIhavedone?ThereasonI'maskingthisisI'dliketolearnbecauseI'mgoingtoBurningManagainnextweek.

MarkGordon: Hopefullyyou’renotgoingtogethitintheheadwithatitaniumknee!

DaveAsprey: Yeah,I'mlearningthatone.I'mgoingtowearahelmetthewholetime.I'vegotlikeasumo's,I'mkidding.Idowanttoknowthatandalsoeveryonelistening.Iftheytakeawhackinthehead,whichdoeshappenwhetheryouplanitornot,evenifyou'renotaMMAfighteroraprosportsplayer,whateverandwegotlotsofthoseguyslistening.Whatshouldanormalpersondo?

MarkGordon: Whatyoudidwasveryright.WefoundthatcarcinoidswhicharetheOmega's,whicharethefishoilsareextremelygood.Acolleagueofmine,afellowmilitaryveteran,MichaelLewis,wroteabookcalledWhenBrainsCollide.Histhesiswasonomega's.Weknowthatomegashaveonecomponent,EPA,DHA.DHAisneuroprotectiveandhelpstoprotecttheentirechemistrybydroppingchemistry.Inadditiontothat,alpha-lipoicacid,NACandacetylcysteinewhichhelpsthebrainbuildglutathionewhichisthekeyfreeradicalscavengeranti-inflammatorycomponentthatwehaveinourbrainwhichrapidlyisutilizedtoprotect.

ByregeneratingitwithNAC,ithelps.Themitochondrialbenefit,alotoftheinflammationknocksoffmitochondria,soyouloseenergyproductionwhichiscalledATP.WhenyouloseATP,whathappensis,youopenupthesechannelsonneuronsthatleakincalciumthatkillsthecell.YouneedtoincreaseyourproductionofATPormaintainmitochondrialfunctioningandthingslikeCoQ10,PQQ,quercetin,allthesethingshelptoupregulatetheprotectivemechanismsinthebrainandthemaintenanceofenergy.

DaveAsprey: I'mgladyoumentionedglutathione.Bulletproofmanufacturesaliposomalglutathione.Itookallofthat,Ihadinmypossessionaswell.

MarkGordon: Whishk!

DaveAsprey: Exactly,allofit.PQQisoneofthecomponentsofUnfairAdvantage.That'sthestuffIwaspounding.Bytheway,IwriteupalotaboutATPinHeadstrongwhichismymostrecentbookandhowyoucanhavethatstuff.Doyouhave,otherthanyourmedicaltextbookwhichbythewaysomeofourlistenersprobablyorderonAmazonrightnow,becausesomebiohackerslikeme,yes,thisiswhatyoureadbeforebed.Doyouhaveafavorite,mostaccessiblebookaboutthisstuffthatyoumightrecommendforlistenerswhowanttoknowmoreaboutthat?

MarkGordon: “InterventionalEndocrinology”asyoustated,cameoutin2007.In2015,Icameoutwith“TraumaticBrainInjury,aClinicalApproachDiagnosisandTreatment”.Thereare10chaptersinitandoneofthechaptersisallaboutsupplementation.Ittellsyouthescience,references,howtotakeit,whentotakeitintermsofsupplementation.Thenthere'sachapteraboutthelaboratory,whichtalksabouthere'swhatyouneeddoneinthelaboratoryandhere'showyouinterpretthem.Throughoutthebook,therearealotofcases,sothatifyoureadthecases,youcanparallelittoyourownexperienceintermsofeithertheentryorthelaboratoryresults.Youcanbecomeknowledgeableinwhatyoushoulddoincaseyougetatraumaorhopefullythere'ssomephysiciansout

therewholookatitandconsidergettingthebookbecauseweneedmoredocstohelpusinournetwork.

DaveAsprey: Wedo.Iwouldlovetoseeeverydoctorouttherewhenthey'redealingthisoneasbehaviorchangeandthisclearsymptomsofinflammation.Theyshouldbeasking,haveyou'vebeenhitinthehead?Theyshouldalsobeaskingbytheway,doyouhavewaterdamageinyourhouse?Becauseyoucanturnonallthisbraininflammationfromtoxicmoldandthetreatmentarefunnyenough,almostidentical.Therearesometoxinbindingyoudowithoneversustheother.Turningonmitochondrialisimportant.WhatI'mgoingtodointheshownotes,I'llincludealinktothenewversionofthatbooksopeoplewhoarelisteningdon'thavetotryandrememberwhenthey'redrivingorwhatever.

Then,I'llseeifit'spossible,I'llchatwithyouofflineandseeifwecangetanexcerpttoshareontheblog,ortodoasummaryorsomethinglikethat.BecauseIthinkthisisthekindofstuffthatpeoplelisteningtotheshow,it'sjustvaluableandstuffthey'dcareaboutanditwilldefinitelydriveaverysubstantialnumberofphysicianslisteningwithradio.Itshoulddrivesomeofthemtoo,justaddthistotheirtoolset.Becauseit'snotwhatyoulearninmedicalschool.MywifeCaroline'sagoodtraineddoctor.YoucanalwaysspellATPifyou'readoctor,butthatdoesn'tmeanyouknowalltheKrebscyclebecauseweprobablydon'tunderstandhalfofitstill.Now,allright,sonowweknowwhattodoforhitintheheadwhichisjustavaluablething.Everyonelistening…bytheway,whiplash,sameasgettinghitinthehead,prettysimilar?

MarkGordon: Whiplashiscalledcoupcountercoup.It'sanacceleration,deaccelerationinjury.Whathappensis,thebrainsitsinafluid,suspendedinafluid.Whenyouhaveawhiplash,theheadgetsthrowntothebackandthentothefrontandthentothebackandthentothefront.That'showweendupgettingfrontallobetraumawhichdealswithourabilitytomakewisedecisions,theexecutivefunctions,thedecisionmakingarea.Intheback,itcaninfluenceyourvisualfield.Youhavepeoplewhohavespotsandfunnyzig-zaggyshapesinfront.That'sfromtheposterior,theocciput,beinghitintheocciput.Thentheirabilitytoforgetthatthisisadog,no,it'spairofglasses.

Theycanhavevisualagnosiaor…notagnosiabutcan'trelatewhattheobjectistoitsname.Thatcanhappenfromfrontalandposteriorlobe,temporallobetoo.It'simportant,whiplashshouldnotbelookedatasaneckproblembutshouldbelookedatmoreasaheadproblemwithasecondaryoftheneckstrain.

DaveAsprey: Awesome.Whiplashisaheadproblemandtosomeextentinthatproblem.Yousaidsomeearlierthatactuallysurprisedme.You'resittinghereonthelinewithacombatvetandyou'resayingflatoutyoudon'tbelieveinPTSD.

MarkGordon: Absolutely.

DaveAsprey: Yougottogodeeperonthis.

MarkGordon: That'swhyIthrewitouttoyou.You'reasmartguy,youpickedup.Here'stheissue,ifitreallywasPTSD,thenwhyarethere150veteransuicidesaweek.They'reallonthemedication,whytheystillhavinganissuewithsuicide?Theseweresuicideantidepressionmedications,why?Becausethemedicationisnotaddressingtherealissue.Thisisnotapsychiatricissue.IfyoulookattheDepartmentOfDefense'sdefinitionofPTSD,it'ssomeonewho'sbeenexposedvisualizingorseeing…visualizingaverynegativesituation,someonegettingblownup,someonegettingshot,themselvesgettingshot.

Thiscreatesapsychiatricissue.We'reforgettingtheverybasicissue,there'sheadtraumaassociatedwitheverysingleoneoftheseguys.Whenwegoback,the200peoplethatwe'veseenplusthe1,400civilians,eachoneofthemhashadoneformofanotherheadtrauma.Whathappensis,andtheanalogyIuseifImay,isyouhaveslowleakinatire.Youfillitup.Youstopatthegasstation,youfillitupperiodically.Thenyougobackontothefreeway,youdrive.Itgetsalittlebitlow.Yougoandfillitupagain.Now,you'reonthefreeway,it'shotoutside,theasphaltishotandthetireblowsandyouturnintothecenterdividerandyourcarblowsupandyou'redead.

Youcouldhavetreateditatthebeginningwhenitwasapinholeleakinit,oryoucanwaituntilthePTSDandyoucrashyoursystem.ThisisacontinuumofTBI,traumaticbraininjury.Theinflammationslowlyeatsawayaconnectivitybetweenthebrainthatregulateshowyourespondtoexternalscenarios.ThelimbicsystemandtheamygdalaareareasofthebrainthatwhenIsaytoyou,hello,youdon'tgochasingaftermeortheguythrowsthecuponthefloorandyoudon'tgoandpickthemupandthrowthemontheincomingtraffic.Whenthere'sdisruptionofthecontrolmechanisminthebrain,theCPU,youtalkedaboutRAM,I'mtalkingaboutthebrainastheCPU.Ifyoubreaklinesoryoudon'thavethethroughputandtheoutputintheCPU,youcan'tcommunicatewithyourperipherals.

DaveAsprey: Gotit.Ifyouhaveahardwareproblem,youcangetsymptomsofPTSD.I'vespentalotoftimewithpeoplewhohave…especiallyearlychildhoodtrauma.Thebrain,endoftheday,theprefrontalcortexisapattern-matchingsystemthatisprofoundlypowerful.Ifyougetapatternmatchthatsays,whenyouseeapatternlikethis,it'salife-threateningsituation…butit'snot.Youcantakesomeonewhohasthat.IfyoubelievethatdefinitionofPTSD,youcanputthemthroughEMDR.Youcanteachthemheartratevariabilitytraining.Youcanputthemthroughneurofeedback,whichismyfavoritetoolforthatstuff.

Youcanresetthepatternsothattheynolongerhavephysiologicalsignsofstress,likechangesinheartratevariabilityorchangesintoamoreofabeta-EEGstate.Isn'ttheresomepatternassociationwithPTSDthat'sdifferentfromahardware-causedPTSD?Aretheretwoflavorsofit,oryoujustflatoutbelieveit'salwayshardware?

MarkGordon: Ibelieveit's…and99%ofthetime,it'shardware.Yes,you'llhavesomeonewhosays,I'veneverhadheadtraumawhichIseeonaweeklybasis.ThenwhenIgettheirlabresultsanditsays,you'vehadheadtraumaandtheystopandtheythink,yeah,whenIwasthreeyearsofage,Ifelloffthefirstbalcony.TheheadtraumaistheprecedentforthepredisposingfactorfordevelopingwhatwecallPTSD.It'sbecausewemissedtheprocessthathappenspocoapoco,littlebylittlethateatsawayatthebrainandallowsfor.Ijustsaidthatthey'venowautism,bipolar,OCD,schizophrenia,allinflammatory-based.Depression,anxiety,inflammation,where'stheinflammationcomingfrom?BecauseIsawsomeoneshotorIsawsomeonegetintoa…allright,that'swhatcausedtochangemybraintobeinflamed?No.Youhavetohaveahardwarephysicaltrauma.

DaveAsprey: You'resayingthatthetraumaorpotentiallychemically-inducedtraumabutsomethingthatcausesinflammationinthebrainisarequirementforpeopletothenhavethesepatternmismatchesthattheycan'tsortthroughnormal.

MarkGordon: Absolutely.That'sthebottomline.

DaveAsprey: That'savery,veryinterestingandintriguingperspective.Iseewhenpeopleturnedoninflammationinthebrain,somehowtheycanradicallyworkthroughstuffthattheywerestuckonbeforewiththeirtoolsthatcan…maybethey'rejustaddressingsymptomsbutthingslikeEMDR.I'veseenpeoplewithprofoundinabilitytofunctiondoonesession.AnEMDR,ifyou'relisteningandyouhaven'theardmetalkingaboutitinanotherepisode,it'saformoftherapywhereyoumoveyoureyesinacertainwaythatputsyourbraininaresetmodesoyoucanseewhatthetraumawaslikeandbreakthepatternthatyou'rein.Itcanbereallyeffective.You'resayingthattheyonlyhadtodothatbecausethere'sapre-existinginflammationinthebrain.

MarkGordon: There'sapre-existingandwhenyou…

DaveAsprey: Okay,Icouldbuythat.

MarkGordon: …teachpeoplemeditationoryouusetheQEEDoryoudoelectrostimulationofthebrain,whatwillhappenis,itwilltemporarilyimprovethesituationwhetherornotit'sbydroppingcortisollevel.Cortisoljustincreasestheinflammationandirritationthatdropsthethyroidhormoneanditdropstestosterone.Indroppingthosetwo,youhaveasuddenimprovement.Imean,youhaveanacuteimprovementinthecondition.IwaskeynotespeakerattheInternationalSymposiumforNeurofeedbackandResearchandgavealecture,whichisonlineonoursystem,whichtalkedabouteverysingleoneofthepsychiatriclabelsthatwehaveandtheirassociationinthemedicalliterature,inthepeerreviewedliteratureofhormonalrelationshiptoit.

Thetestosteroneand310,000articlesindepression,then103,000articleswiththeestrogenanddepression,growthhormonedepression,allthesearticles.

They'reusingtheQEEDandthey'regettinggoodresponseafter40sessions,aftersomeincredible80sessions.Thentheyhavesomepeoplewhodon'tholdit.Oncetheyputthemontohormonalcorrection,theyneedlesssessionsandtheyholditalotlonger.Alltheseothermodalitieshavebenefitsbutyouhavetomakesurethatthefundamentalfoundationofthehormonesinthebrainarecorrect.

DaveAsprey: I'mabsolutelylovingthis.Partoftheprotocolswedoat40YearsofZenisafive-dayintensiveneurofeedbackthingbutwehaveachefonsite,cookingstuffwithbrainoctanewhichraisesketones.Ketoneslowerinflammationinthebrain,increasemitochondrialfunction.They'reonafullstackofmitochondrialenhancersbecauseIcangettwotothreetimesmoreneurofeedbacksessionsperdaybeforetheycrashandbecausepeoplegetresultsbetter.

MarkGordon: [crosstalk]

DaveAsprey: Youjustexplainedsomething…Icouldn'ttellyouallthereasonsbutIknewsomeofthem.Youjustfilledinafewmissingpiecesandknowledgeformeaboutwhyitworkswhenyou'redoingallthemitochondrialenhancementversusnot.Whatyou'resayingthatmatchesourdata,wecanseeona24-channelclinicalscan,"Whenwereyouhitinthehead?"Yousay,"Idon'tknow."Youaskthemthreetimesandthey'll…"Yeah,whenIwasthree,mymomdroppedme,"orwhatever.it'sjustoldstufformaybeit'srecentstuff.Itdoesmatter.Onethingthatagoodneurofeedbacktechwilldoisthey'llrundifferentprotocolstoshowthebrainthisiswhat'sgoingoninthere.You'resayingifyoudon'taddresstheinflammationinthefirstplace,thosethingsdon'tworkaseffectively.

MarkGordon: Correct.

DaveAsprey: Ittakesalotofsessions.Well…

MarkGordon: Ithink…

DaveAsprey: Hallelujah.I'mstartingtoagreewithyou.IthoughtIwasgoingtohavetoyellatyouaboutsayingPTSDwasn'trealbutyou'resaying…

MarkGordon: Youcanyellatme.Idon'tcare.

DaveAsprey: Iactuallydon'tyell.I'vedealtwithmybraininflammation.Idon'tneedtoyellaboutthiskindofstuff.There'sgoingtobelike,"What!"Igetwhatyou'resaying.Ithinkforpeoplelistening,ifyouhaveinflammationinyourbody,youhaveinflammationinyourbrain.Ifyousmackedyourhead,yougotinflammationinyourbrain.Anythingyoudothatincreasesmitochondrialfunctionthroughoutyourbodywillreduceinflammation.Inflammationisabyproductofpoormitochondrialfunction.Inyourpracticeandinyourresearch

atUSCMark,whatarethetopinflammatorythingsthatpeoplearedoingthatareworkingagainsttheirbrain?

MarkGordon: Firstoff,I'mnolongeratUSC.

DaveAsprey: Sorry,Isawyou…

MarkGordon: Thatwas…

DaveAsprey: Thankyouforcorrectingmethere.

MarkGordon: …inthepast.Ithappenedwhat?Lasttwomonthsago,whichisfine,theywereagreatinstitutetobeassociatewith.Oneofthethingsthatpeopledothatincreaseinflammation,firstoff,isglutensandtheirmicrobiomeintheirgut…

DaveAsprey: Amen.

MarkGordon: …they'renottakingcareofthegut.Now,abreakrighthereandtellyouthatmydaughterwho'sanaturopathic.Ihavethreedaughters.Mydaughterwho'sanaturopathic,AlisonGordon,isonewhoputmeontoyou.

DaveAsprey: Cool.

MarkGordon: Shesaid,"Yougottogoandtalktohim.Youguyswillgetalonggreat.He'sinthemicrobiome."Herspecialtyismicrobiomeinbrain.Sheworksasaconsultantwithus,withtheWarriorAngelFoundation.It'sallaboutfixingthegut.Youneedyourprobiotics.Youneedtostopthejunkyou'retaking,theprocessedchemicalsthatwe'retakingthatonlyaddinflammationtotheliningofthegutwhichreleasesInterleukin-6andtumornecrosisfactorthatgoesrightintothebrainandstartsthisincrediblecascadeinthebrain.Excessivealcohol,cigarettesmoking,notdoingexercising,Ilikemyonecupofyogurtofweek.I'vecutdownonmydairyalot.

Someofthedairyisgoodunlessyou'reeatinggoat-basedstuffwhichIdon'tparticularlylike.Anyway,poornutrition,poorexercise,consumptionofthewrongthings,alotofantibiotics.People…I'vegotaviralinfection,givemeanantibiotic.Exposuretodentalx-rays,eventakingthepanorexofthemouthcanleadtodamagetotheareaofthebraincalledthehypothalamusthatcontrolsthepituitary.Youhavetobecarefulaboutthat.Themoldisanincrediblething,yourblackmold,theaspergillusmoldandeverything.This…

DaveAsprey: Igotaquickplugthereforyouandforourlisteners.Themoldthingtookyearsoffunctionaltimeawayforme,moldymovie.comisadocumentarythatyouwilllove.Iinterviewed12doctorsand12peoplewhohadit.Anytimeyouhavesomeonewhodoesn'tbelievewhenyousaymold,youtellthemtowatchthatmovie.They'llunderstand.Itshowsthatpersonalitychangesandallthatthatcomefrominflammation.Ifthat'snotinyourtoolsettoconvincethe

recalcitrantpatient,yougottohaveit.Forpeoplelistening,ifyoudon'tknowaboutthis,Idon'ttalkaboutthatmuch.Itwasahugeproject,moldymovie.com.It'seitherfreeorwe'dchargeitlikefourbucksorsomething.It'sthemostimportantmovieIcanimagine.Igotmysoapboxthere.Keepgoing.

MarkGordon: Yeah.That'sgoodtoknow.

DaveAsprey: Okay,thatwasyourbiglistthere.Thethingsthatarecausinginflammationthereandthankyouforputtingmoldonthere.Mercuryamalgams,isthatasbiggerproblemspeoplesay?

MarkGordon: Halfofmyfamilyaredentists.They'repullingouttheamalgams.Oneofthethingsthatwe'reseeinginourveteranscomingbackisthatalotofthemhavemercuryorleadtoxicity.Thatinterruptsthecascadeofhormonesfrompregnenolone,DHEA.ItstopstheprogressionoftheDHEAtotestosteroneaswellasmood,brainfunction,energylevel.Itinterruptsandinhibitsit.It'sveryimportanttohavethatchecked.

DaveAsprey: I'mgoingtoaskarealcontroversialquestionhere,aluminum.

MarkGordon: Okay,gotit.

DaveAsprey: Thereasonit'scontroversialiswhenaluminumisusedasanadjuvantincertainvaccines,it'stheretocauseinflammationwhichsomanypeople,adultswhogetvaccinesaretobeworriedabout,kids?

MarkGordon: Vaccines…

DaveAsprey: I'mnotaskingtosayvaccinesarebad.I'mjustsaying,isaluminuminvaccinearebad?

MarkGordon: Shots!Youjusttookawaymypowerthere.

DaveAsprey: I'llkeeponthespot,you'readoctor.Igetit.

MarkGordon: Well,aluminuminAlzheimer'sdisease,I'lltalkaboutthatandthenasadjuvant,toenhancethewavethatanimmunizationworks.Youneedtoreallyshakeuptheimmunesystem,that'swhytheyhavethingslikeDPTsothattheyworktogetherandtheystimulateanoverwhelmingamountofinflammationinthetissuethatgoesintothebrainandcreateitsownproblems.Fromthestandpointof15yearsago,ifnotmore,theysaidstopusingaluminumbecauseit'sassociatedwithAlzheimer'sdisease.That'snotthecase.Itturnsoutisthatzincdeficiency,whenyou'rezincdeficient,yourbodyautomaticallyabsorbsaluminumasareplacement.That'showyougettheaccumulationinthebrain.ThereasonwhyzincdeficiencyincreasesAlzheimer'sisbecausezincisanimportantcomponenttostopAlzheimer's,justliketestosteroneis,estradiolis,pregnenolone,progesteroneare.Aluminumhasitsplace.

DaveAsprey: Now,IwanttoswitchgearsandaskAndrewaquestion.Andrew,I'vehadtheopportunitytotalkwithvariousSpecialForcesguys,navysealsandpeoplewhoareprettyheavydutyoperators.Almosttoatee,theyhavedescribedmorethanonetimeanightofintensealcoholfollowedbyrehydrationwithacoupleofbagsofIVsalineandthengoingbackout.There'slifestylefactorsthatarepartofbeinginthemilitary.Whenyoujustruninatfullspeedanditislifeanddeathonaregularbasisanditgoesfrom…Idon'tknow,likenothingtosomuchshootingatmeandthenback.DoyouseethefoodsituationinthemilitaryandalcoholandotherthingslikethatasbeingsomethingthatmaybemadeyourTBIworseormaybeitisjustasystemicproblemandwhat'sgoingoninthemilitary?Oristhissomethingthat'sshiftedoverthelastfewyears?

AndrewMarr: Yeah,it'sagreatquestionDave.Idothinkit'sasystemicproblemifyoulookatnutrition,mealsreadytoeat.

DaveAsprey: GoodGod.

AndrewMarr: Thesearethingsthatare50to75gramsofsugar.It'sallprocessed.Ifsomebodyisgettingagooddoseofthat,overasix-monthperiod,theyhaveotherenvironmentaltoxins,maybethey'reclosetoaburnedpit,youknowwhatImean.Maybealltheheavymetalsthatwerereleasedfromdischargingweaponsnonstop.

DaveAsprey: Depleteduraniumkindofstuff.

AndrewMarr: Absolutely,absolutely.Eventhefoodthattheycook,itproducesinflammationjustlikeweweretalkingabout.Thesethingsdonotsetuptopeoplethatwesendinharm'sway.Thisnotsetthemupforsuccess.Itmakesthemmoresusceptibletobraininjuriesandchronicinflammation.

DaveAsprey: Therearesomanythatjustdrivesmenutsbecauseit'sanactofservice.Theydon'tpayyousowellinthemilitary.Yougooutthere,theyinvestalotinasoldier.Thentheysaveafewpenniesonfood.YoucouldtakesomeonenotjustoutofmilitaryservicebutyoucanmessuptheirbrainfortherestoftheirlifebecauseyousavedanickelonanMREbysubstitutingevenmoremargarinefortheonemonounsaturatedfatthatwasleftintherekindofthing.Itfeelslikesomewhereanaccountant,notadoctor,ismakingthosedecisions.

I'mreallyhopingthatwhentheygetaholisticview,maybeusingmachinelearningorsomethingandjustsay,youknowwhat,investinginfoodfortroopsisoneofthecheapestwaystohavetroopreadinessandtocutcostinthemilitary.Isurehopetheygetbecauseman,Iseethat.Yousawthataswellinyourservice.

AndrewMarr: Yeah,yeah,absolutely.Now,that'swhywe'reworkingsohardtogetthisinformationoutthere.Inmylastdeploymentdayof2013,therewasnotalkaboutbrainhealthorgoodcognitivebrainfunctioning.Now,weputoutjusta

pletheraofinformationthroughstuffthatyou'redoingandotherlike-mindedpeoplewherethat'snolongerthecase.Individualscantakethepowerbackandmaketheirowndecisionsandsay,"I'mgoingtotaketheseprecautionstosetmyselfupforsuccess."

DaveAsprey: Whatdobothofyouthinkaboutmildketosisasathingtodo?Iknowguyswhoareindeploymentwhoorderabrainoctanewhichisaproductwemakethatincreaseketonelevelsafteryoutakeit.It'sasourceofexogenousketones.There'salwayssomebackgroundofketonespresent.Idoiteveryday,Igiveittomykids.Istheresomethingtobesaidformildketosisorextremeketosiswhenyou'redealingwithTBIorwhenyouwanttopreventTBI?

MarkGordon: I'lltellyoumyversionofit.Ketosishasabenefitandthatbenefitisremovingwhatwecallreactiveoxygenspecieswhicharefreeradicals.Innormalmetabolismwhichismitochondria-producingATP,theenergy,itspinsofftheseinflammatoryproductscalledreactiveoxygenspecies,reactivenitrogenspecies.It'sbelievedthatthatisharmfultoabrainwithTBI.Puttingsomeoneintomildketosishasbenefitofdroppingthat.That'sonthetraditionalconventionalsidethatAndrewandIhavethisconversationquiteoften.

Onmyside,whenyoustarvethebrainofsugarwhichiswhatrunson,youruntheriskofcausingyourcellstodiefasterbecausethemitochondrianeedscarbohydratestorunandmaketheATP.Fromoneside,you'restoppingthereactiveoxygenspeciesthatcanleadtodamage.Ontheotherside,you'restarvingthecellthatcausesthedamage.

DaveAsprey: Yourbraincellscanallrunonketonesnotsugar,right?

MarkGordon: Yeah,theycan.Ifyou'retalkingaboutsomeonewithatraumaticbraininjury,they'renotinthehealthyrange,they'renowinthedamagedrange.It'slikeputtingatonontoacarwithnotires.You'renotgoinganywhere.

DaveAsprey: IcantellyouwhatIdidafterIhitmyhead,Ididnotcutsugar.Idon'tnormallyeatsugarbutIdidn'tcutcarbsoutofmydietatall.Becausehavingglucosepresentisactuallygoodfortheglialcells,theimmunecellsinthebrain.Theylikeglucosemorethanketones.

MarkGordon: Correct.

DaveAsprey: Neuronslikeketonesmorethanglucose.Brainoctaneletsmehaveketonespresentandglucosepresentatthesametime.I'mlike,“IthinkIwantallenergypathwaysavailableandturnedonbecauseIjusttookahittothehead”.Thatwasthebackoftheenvelopeequationthere.Ireallyhopethatmessagebeingsent.BecausetheideaI'mnevergoingtohaveacarbagain,Ifindin[inaudible]goinginandout,havingmildketonespresent.BecauseI'musingthisexternalsourcefromBrainOctane,that'swhatmakesmybrainrunbestforyears.

WhereaswhenIdidmythreemonthsofzerocarbs,Ididn'tlikehowIfeltattheendofthat.Itwasn'tright.Allright,thatwascool.

MarkGordon: Yeah,Iagreewithyouonthatone.It'sgoingtobeablendeddiet.Therearesomegoodcarbohydratesinit.Thenismildketosis,notextremeketosisasyousaidaboutbeingoffsugarforthreemonths.Thatwouldkillmeinaday.I'mhypoglycemicanyway.

DaveAsprey: You'reananti-agingdoctorandhypoglycemic,comeon,youcanactthat.

MarkGordon: Hey,sometimesit'sgenetics.

DaveAsprey: Thereyougo.

MarkGordon: Goodexcuse.

DaveAsprey: Now,we'reupagainsttheendoftheshow.Iwanttoaskeachofyouaquestion.Ithink,Andrew,I'mgoingtoaskyouthisquestionfirst.It'saquestionI'veaskedtoeveryonewho'sbeenontheshow.Basedonyourlife,allthestuffyouknow,stuffyou'vedone.Ifsomeonecametoyoutomorrowandsaid,look,IwanttoperformbetterateverythingIdoasahumanbeing,whatarethethreemostimportantpiecesofadviceyouhavetooffertome?Whatarethethreethingsthatmattermost?

AndrewMarr: Well,Dave,greatquestion.MyexperienceasaSpecialForcesGreenBerethastaughtmethatinsituationsoflifeanddeath,there'snotimetositandcontemplatearesponse.Youwilldefaulttoyourmostfoundationalleveloftraining.Mysufferingasitturnsoutwasultimatelyself-chosen.Mydadunwittinglygavemesomegreatadviceandhesaid,"Son,Ican'tunderstandeverythingthatyou'vebeenthroughandIknowyou'rehurting,butifyoucouldfindawaytomakeyournewmissioninlifeaboutsomebodyelse-helpingsomebodyelse-wellthenIthinkyou'llfindthatwouldbeabletohelpyou."

ItookthatandImoldeditintowhatwedidwiththebook,iswhichwewanttogivethismessagetootherpeoplewhoaretravellingsimilarterrain.WhatIfoundthroughthatDaveis,one,ifyouwanttocomeoutofphysicaltraumaorsuffering,youneedtodecidetolivealifeworthliving.Forme,thatwasdecidetolivealifeworthlivingagain.Fromthere,youneedtodefineyourlife'spurpose,yourmission,yourwhy.It'sgoingtobepersonaltoyouanditisasolomission.Ifyoucanfigureoutyourwhy,thenyouneedtodetermineyourhow.Youneedtofigureouthowyoucanplan,prepareandperformtothebestofyourabilitieswhenthesituationcallsfor.

IthinkNietzschesaidthat,"Ifyouhaveabigenoughwhy,youalwaysfindthehow."Ifoundthattobetrueinmylife,bothasaGreenBeretandpostGreenBeret.Lastly,dedicateyourselftosomethingbiggerthanyourself.Iwasbruised.Iwasbattered.Iwasbloody,leftfordead,labelthroughtheVAas100%

disabledwith32disabilities.Itstartedwithadecision.Thenitturnedintoathought,andhabits.Weareourthoughtsandourhabits.That'stheprocessthatIputtoturnmylifearound,andthenwithMarktohelpustobringthatsamelevelofhealingtoothers.ThatwouldbemyrecommendationDave.

DaveAsprey: Beautiful.Thankyouforyourservicebothinmilitaryandwhatyoudonow.Itmakesadifference.

AndrewMarr: Thankyou.

DaveAsprey: Youmentionedyourbook,isthisavailableyet?

AndrewMarr: Yeah,“TalesFromTheBlastFactory”.ThepublisherdidthenamewhichIthinkisprettygood.It'savailablethrougheBookrightnowandAmazonandthepaperbackwillbeoutinJanuary2018.

DaveAsprey: IsthereaURLpeopleshouldgoto,toknowmoreaboutthat?

AndrewMarr: talesfromtheblastfactory.com,wejustsoldthemovierightsthatwouldbedoingadocumentaryfilmonthatfirst.Thenwewilllooktodoingthefeaturefilmlater.

DaveAsprey: Awesome.Youguysknowwheretogotogetthatbookandtocheckitout,itsoundslikeit'sgoingtobeagreat.Ihaven'thadthechancetolookatityet.

AndrewMarr: I'llgetyouacopy.

DaveAsprey: Allright,thankyou.Now,Mark,samequestion.Iwanttoperformbettereverythingthatitistobeahumanbeing.WhatarethethreemostimportantthingsIneedtoknow?

MarkGordon: Greatquestionobviously.Threemostimportantthingstoknowisyourself.Youhavetohaveasenseofhowyoufeelwellandhowtoattainthatsenseofwellbeingbyeithermeditation,nutrition,makingsureyourhormonesarecorrect.Tomakesurethatasyouarelearningtheskillsortheknowledgeofhowtobebetter,toshareit.WhatIdoisaboutsharingthatknowledgefreelytopeoplewhocangoandtakeitandtoembellishpassingiton,payitforward.Lastlyismeditation,calmness,appreciatingthatthingswillgowronginourlifeandthatweshouldn'tbesooverlyreactivetoit.

Stepbackandtakeaminuteandseehowwecanimprovethesituationtoembellishthesituationsothepersonwhoyou'reinteractingwithunderstandsthatthere'sabetterway.There'salwaysabetterway.Wehavetomakeadifferencebybeingthedifference.

DaveAsprey: Iabsolutelyloveit.Now,wherecanpeoplefindoutmoreaboutyourwork?Whatthebestplaceforthem?

MarkGordon: Thebestplaceiswww.tbi,traumaticbraininjury,tbimedlegal,M-E-D-L-E-G-A-L,.com.Thathasalltheinformation,coupleofhundredarticleswithpeoplewhowanttoreadalittlebitmore.gothereandgetit.YoucangetaccesstothebookandIthinkI'llhaveinthenextweek,they'llbethefirstchapterofthebook,traumaticbraininjurywillbepostedsotheycandownloadit.It'sthefirstchapter.It'sanoverviewofthewholebook,chapterbychapter.Ifyouwantanabbreviatedreadofthebook,youjustreadchapterone.

DaveAsprey: Awesome.There'satonofinfoforpeoplelistening.TheonethingIhaven'taskisifpeoplefeelcalledtosupporttheWarriorAngelsFoundationwhichishelpingveteranscomebackfromtheseTBIs.Wherecouldpeoplelearnmore,wherecantheydonate?Whatthestory?

MarkGordon: ThanksDave,weappreciatethat.Theycangetourinformationandallofoursocialmediaandeverythingthroughwww.warriorsoulagoge.com,that'sA-G-O-G-E.com.Everythingtheycouldeverwantisonthatwebsite.

DaveAsprey: Beautiful.Well,guys,Ithinkyou'veaddedahugeamountofvaluetoday,justlettingpeopleunderstandhowprevalentbraininjuriesareinsociety.Thestoryofwhereitcantakeyoufrombeinganextremehighperformertowhatthehelljusthappenedandthenhowtocomebackfromthatisprofoundlycool.Contextualizinghormonesispartofthebrain,partofbrainfunctionnotjustpartofmuscleisprofoundlyimportant,justforeveryonelisteningtounderstand.I'mreallygrateful.Ihadafantastictimechattingwithyouguys.ThanksforbeingonBulletproofRadio.

MarkGordon: ThankyouDave.

AndrewMarr: ThankyouDave.

MarkGordon: Iappreciateit.

DaveAsprey: Ifyouenjoyedtoday'sepisode,youknowwhattodo.Actually,there'salotofthingsyoucoulddo.Yougotobulletproof.com/iTuneswhichwilltakeyourighttotheiTunespagetoleaveareviewofthisepisodewhereyoucanleavefivestarsandsay,thisisworthmytime,becausethat'swhattheshowisabout.It'saboutyouandaboutdoingstuffthat'sworthanhourofyourtime.Youcanalsogooutthereandcheckoutthebooksorthewebsitesthataretwogueststodayjustmentionedandconsiderpickingoneup.Ifyou'readoctororyouknowyouhaveTBIinyourfamilyoryouhaveityourself,youmightwanttopickupamedicaltextbook.Youdon'thavetoknoweverythingandeveryword.

There'senoughintherethatyoucango,wait,nowIknowenoughtogoonandmeetwithmydoctorwhoprobablyhasn'tevenreadthisbook,andasktherightquestionsandtodemandtherighttreatmentandtodemandtherightlabpanelsandthingslikethat.Itisyourrighttodothat.You'retheguywhowritesthatchecktoyourdoctor.Ifyourdoctorsays,theywon'torderaninflammation

panelwhenyouknowyouhityourselfinthehead,there'saverysimpletwowordsthatyouhaveatyourdisposal.Thosewordsare,you'refired.I'veusedthemwithdoctorsandit'sokayforyoutodothat.Ifyou'readoctorlisteningandthatoffenseyou,Iapologize.Readthedamnbookssonoonewilleversaythattoyou,allright?

Thankseveryone.

AndrewMarr: Awesome.

MarkGordon: Righton,righton.