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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
STATE OF MICHIGAN
BEFORE THE MICHIGAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION
In the matter, on the Commission's own motion, to promulgate rules governing the billing of residential Case No. U-18120 and nonresidential electric and natural gas service. ____________________________________/
PUBLIC HEARING
Proceedings held in the above-entitled
matter before Suzanne D. Sonneborn, Administrative
Law Judge with MAHS, at the Michigan Public Service
Commission, 7109 West Saginaw Highway, Lake Michigan
Hearing Room, Lansing, Michigan, on Thursday,
September 22, 2016, at 9:11 a.m.
APPEARANCES: GRAHAM FILLER Assistant Attorney General 7109 West Saginaw Highway, 3rd Floor Lansing, Michigan 48917 On behalf of Michigan Public Service Commission Staff
REPORTED BY: Erin Stilman (CSR-3588) (RPR-019261)
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
I N D E X
STATEMENT BY: PAGE
David Jonesse 7
Brock Millard 10
James Ault 13
Ed McClellan 16
John Holeton 19
Jeanine Deal 28
Georgetta Livingston 31
John Kurczewski 37
Jaime Chimner 41
Nancy Shules 48
Jim McKindles 50
Kathy Johnson 51
Sandy Taylor 55
Carole Garcia 59
Deanna Hilbert 66
De Liddy 69
Richard Meltzer 72
John Diehl 80
David Lonier 84
David Sheldon 86
Jay Bowers 92
Lori Ebaugh 97
Lola Killey 102
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
I N D E X (Continued)
STATEMENT BY: PAGE
John Tatar 110
Dominic Cusumano 117
Sarah Mullkoff 126
Kenneth Rhoads 131
Daniel Nash 132
Ralph and Donna Stenman 134
Myron Nims 137
Shannon Kig 139
Sharon Koenig 143
Suzanne Yarbrough 144
Ron Yarbrough 149
Michelle Rison 155
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
Lansing, Michigan
Thursday, September 22, 2016
At 9:11 a.m.
- - -
(Hearing commenced pursuant to due notice.)
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Good morning everyone.
Today is September 22, 2016, and this is a hearing
before the Michigan Public Service Commission.
THE AUDIENCE: Can you speak up, please.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: All right. Good
morning.
THE AUDIENCE: Good morning.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: This is a hearing
before the Michigan Public Service Commission in
Case No. U-18120 captioned in the matter of the
Commission's own motion to promulgate rules governing
the billing of residential and nonresidential electric
and natural gas service.
Pursuant to due notice, a public hearing
in this matter was set for this time and place. My
name is Suzanne Sonneborn and I am the presiding
officer who has been assigned to this matter.
May I please have the appearance of
counsel on behalf of the Commission's Staff.
MR. FILLER: Sure. Assistant Attorney
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
General Graham Filler on behalf of Staff.
THE AUDIENCE: We can't hear him.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you.
Can you please repeat your name,
Mr. Filler.
MR. FILLER: Graham Filler of behalf of
Staff.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you.
The notice of today's public hearing was
provided in the Commission's July 22nd, 2016 order in a
notice of hearing. The notice of hearing, Exhibit A to
the Commission's order, was also served via e-mail
transmission to all persons shown on the ListServ
distribution list attached to that Commission order.
Mr. Filler, does Staff agree that
today's public hearing was properly noticed?
MR. FILLER: Yes, your Honor.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you. Pursuant
to the Commission's order and notice of hearing, this
hearing is for the purpose of providing an opportunity
for all interested persons to present statements,
views, data, questions, or arguments concerning the
Commission's proposed rules governing consumer
standards and billing practices. Specifically, the
Commission proposes to amend and combine two rule sets;
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
Billing Practices Applicable to Nonresidential Electric
and Gas Customers, and Consumer Standards and Billing
Practices for Electrical and Gas Residential Service.
Both of these rule sets can be found in
Michigan Administrative Code. The first set is at
Rule 460.1601 to 460.1640, and the second rule set can
be found at Rule 460.101 through 460.169.
This hearing will continue until all
individuals and parties present have had a reasonable
opportunity to present their statements regarding these
proposed rules.
Given how well attended this hearing is
and how many individuals would like to speak, I would
ask that the statements be reasonably limited in
duration in order to ensure that all interested persons
have an opportunity to participate in today's
proceedings.
Turning to the sign-in list, the first
individual who is listed who has indicated he wishes to
make a statement is David Jonesse.
And I would like to have the individuals
who do wish to present statements to proceed as I call
them to this front table where the microphone is on and
you can be heard.
Mr. Jonesse, good morning.
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
MR. JONESSE: Good morning. I don't
believe I'm that adequately prepared but I have a
statement that I ended up e-mailing.
I am present here today as I and other
parties in our industry would like to be identified in
your new rules structure when we are extorted and
mistreated by Consumer Power and other utilities owning
overhead infrastructure such as overhead electrical and
communication lines per the new Rule 151, currently
Rule 133.
I would like to be identified because
the infrastructure is interfering with commerce as
commonly defined and greatly affects our profitability
and ability to continue business.
I'm here today representing the niche
industry of structural transport, commonly known as
house moving. The primary benefits this niche industry
offers society is the preservation of historical
structures and providing residence for hundreds of
Michigan residents annually, as well as recycling all
the materials to build a house with all the green
benefits that that includes, as well as the
corresponding reduction in the use of limited landfill
space.
We also annually recycle hundreds of
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
commercial and farm buildings which will be demolished
in landfilled without our services and relocate a vast
variety of industrial machinery required by the auto
and other heavy industry.
Locally Consumer Powers has implemented
a $500 fee just to quote a price to temporary locate
their infrastructure to allow passage of illegal
over-height loads, the provided quoted price appears to
have no relation to the men, equipment, or other time
required and they repeatedly have refused to provide
any kind of itemized billing for what they are
furnishing. It recently took six weeks of continuous
communication --
Whew, I'm nervous.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Take your time.
MR. JONESSE: -- to -- continuous
communication to even get their quote. They rent
access on their poles at the rate of $1 a year per pole
to phone and cable companies which provides them income
from public land they use for free which effectively
creates layers of wires that -- I lost my place --
which effectively creates layers of wires that must be
relocated for any load over the standard height of
13' 6". They refuse to grant permission for qualified
contractors who have installed much of the Consumer
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
infrastructure to work on their facilities, and they
intentionally misrepresent the electrical code by
calling our loads mobile construction site and put
thousands of people out of, thousands of people out of
power to maintain a 10' working clearance from any
energized line while other traffic routinely passes
within inches of similar lines and many are ripped down
by standard trucks as, as they are not installed to
code.
They repeatedly have called MiOSHA using
the mobile construction site -- I keep losing my
page -- gambit until OSHA learned that there was no
such definition. Consumer's management personnel have
several times tried to block legal permitted loads and
would not desist until threatened with arrest by county
deputies retained for traffic control and escort
services.
Is it prohibitively expensive and time
consuming for our niche industry to sue every
governmental body who has given permission for a
private entity to restrict commerce on right-of-ways
owned by the public. If you are a customer of Consumer
Powers and want a pole moved for a new driveway, there
is no restrictions on what they can charge, when they
can do it, and no obligation for them to even review
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
your request. Consumer's has intentionally
misrepresented that tariff section to mean that the
same lack of accountability applies to anyone who wants
wires relocated for transfer of any over-height load.
In my various communications with the
MPSC they have indicated that they agreed with the
currently monopoly and extortion an industry Goliath.
This situation is intolerable and some accountability
and cooperation for any regulating bodies would be well
received.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Mr. Jonesse.
Brock Millard, good morning.
MR. MILLARD: Good morning your Honor.
Ladies and gentlemen, your Honor, my name is Brock
Millard. I live in Columbiaville, Michigan. I'd like
to present the first goal of the MPSC is to establish
fair and reasonable rates for regulated services and
adopt and administer fair terms and conditions of
service for Michigan's utility customers.
I would like to address some concerns
that I have in regards to U-18120. The section that I
would like to discuss is under part 8, Procedures For
Shutoff and Restoration of Service, specifically
Rule 37(a), (b) and (c). (a) states: Without notice,
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
if a condition on the customer's premises is determined
by the utility or a governmental agency to be
hazardous; (b) without notice, if a customer uses
equipment in a matter that adversely affects the
utility's equipment or the utility's service to others;
(c) without notice, if unauthorized use of the
equipment furnished and owned by the utility occurs,
including obtaining the use of equipment by submitting
an application containing false information.
Without notice is no prior notification.
Customer's premises is house or building together with
its land and outbuildings. Governmental agency is an
agency responsible for the oversight and administration
of specific functions. Hazardous; risky or dangerous.
So a house or a building that was built
prior to 1978 could be considered hazardous because it
has lead paint? How about a house or building that has
asbestos siding? Think of a city such as Detroit with
all the asbestos that would be under the aluminum
siding; is that considered hazardous? How about
someone smoking? Is leaving a garden rake in the yard
hazardous? Some of these may be tongue in cheek, but
without defining what is hazardous, it leaves the door
wide open for almost any possibility.
Without notice would allow for potential
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
abuses by utility companies and governmental agencies.
A notice of 10 days such as is current in R 460.138,
Rule 38(1) safeguards all customers from abuse.
Again, Rule (b) and (c) use very vague
language that leaves definitions up to a utility's
discretion.
A possible scenario for Rule (b) is
several people welding in their garages in the same
neighborhood at the same time; would lights dim mean
adversely affecting the service to others? Would using
too much electricity adversely affect service to
others? It would be very easy to blame shift,
especially during peak demand.
I understand Rule (c) and it sounds
good, except it is without notice. Again vague. I
have possible scenarios for Rule (c) also, but I will
forgo them right now.
In closing, will a list be published of
what the utility or government agency sees as a
violation?
Please consider fair terms and
conditions of service for the utility customers of
Michigan.
Thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
Mr. Millard.
Jim Ault.
Good morning.
MR. AULT: My name is Jim Ault. I'm
President of the Michigan Electric and Gas Association
which is a trade association of investor-owned
utilities that serve fewer than 250,000 customers in
Michigan. So we have, for example, Indiana Michigan
Power, Alpena Power for Electric, MGU Gas, Wisconsin
Public Service, Excel, a lot of Upper Peninsula
service, but we work as a trade association with the
entire industry on trying to address issues in common
when we can. So we do work with Consumer's and DTE on
matters including these billings rules.
Right now the industry's been engaged
actually in this process for a number of years
participating in work groups that the staff will
organize to allow interested parties to come in and
discuss rules as they're trying to formulate the
changes.
We much appreciate from the industry
side that opportunity which is open to others,
including people commenting in this room, and they're
usually publicized and efforts are made to bring others
in. We did have that kind of process on these rules.
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
We intend to put our comments in at the
written time because there's actually matters that are
still under discussion, and we're probably going to
learn a little bit today too from some of these
comments.
Our joint comments would probably
include the mega members plus the major utilities as
well. We don't have a lot of issues because of the
work group process, but there may be new ones that
arise as we may hear today.
We have two branches of the comments are
going to be, one is kind of substantive rule issues
like you've heard comments on already, and then
technical legal matters, and probably the biggest one
of those I will note on the hearing today is the effort
to combine the residential and nonresidential rules.
And there's a quote of the rule-making process that
says that catchline headings or the section headings
are not considered part of the substantive rule. And
so the draft used, actually wisely I think, the
headings to delineate which rule applies to residential
and which rule applies to nonresidential, because
there's still some of that in the rules. And we're
going to propose that in the substantive rule that the
distinction was simply made so that it actually counts
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
as a substantive part of the rule.
So that's probably the one big comment I
want to say today. Otherwise I haven't heard so far
the comments, you know, I don't really want to respond
specifically to these but on things like the clearance
and line, there's codes that apply. And there is two
things I do want to know because I think there are
going to be a lot of comments on issues, there is a
public benefit to utility service and use of the public
right of way, as well is a widespread public benefit
just doing the availability of service. And sometimes
there's tradeoffs that that encompasses.
The other one is that the Commission has
a complaint process, and if there's sort of abuse going
on and people feel that these rules are being applied
unfairly, that process is open. In fact, it's often
used for people that have an issue with the way
utilities are administering the rules.
And finally, I'll point out, I don't
know if there will be any low income comments today on
some of that shutoff protection and things like that,
there is a group called the Coalition to Keep Michigan
Warm, that would include interested citizens that have
interest in the low income issues. That group is open
to participation. There's a lot of participation by
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
non-profits that administer low income assistance. I
think that group is considering filing written comments
here too by the written comments date.
So with that, that's the extent of my
comments today. Thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you, Mr. Ault.
Ed McClellan.
Good morning.
MR. MCCLELLAN: Hi. My name is Ed
McClellan. I'm a life-long resident of Ann Arbor, and
by profession I'm a financial adviser, and by necessity
I've become a serious student of EMF hypersensitivity.
I say by necessity because of my wife's
hypersensitivities. Since the introduction of cell
phones, she has been really unable to use a cell phone
except for texting, and then she holds it on speaker
phone way out here. And she'll -- the family joke is:
I'm getting a headache, I'm hanging up, and just she
goes.
Her employer provided her with a
Blackberry. She couldn't use it. It gave her serious
headaches, nausea, confusion, the brain fog that I'm
sure many in this room are going to talk about later.
She can't be around WiFi, Comcast, Xtent
makes her just crazy. I bought her a computer one
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
Christmas and she couldn't use it, it was making her
sick. We couldn't figure it out. So I bought a
special meter, found out that that wireless keyboard,
every time you touch a key sends a pulse. And I
replaced it with a wired keyboard, she's fine.
In 2012, DTE installed a smart meter in
our home. I came home from work and I found her at the
far corner of our home huddled in a mass crying. We
called DTE. We had the smart meter removed. At that
point they said sure, we'll just put the old analog
meter back on. Within 48 hours she was fine and back
to running triathlons.
In June of this year we responded to DTE
under threat of electric power cut-off that we had to
try this opt-out meter. So, well, we didn't want,
didn't want our electricity cut-off so we tried the
opt-out smart meter. Same results. This time,
however, my wife did not recover as quickly, or they
would not replace the meter.
She's been to our family medical doctor,
her own personal doctor, Dr. Christine Krause, M.D.
Assistant Professor and Partner in Family Medicine at
University of Michigan who wrote a letter to DTE on her
behalf citing her symptoms, all consistent to be
associated with hypersensitivities to EMFs and
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
specifically asking DTE to replace our opt-out meter
with our old analog meter. We've presented this letter
to DTE all the way up to Mr. Jerry Anderson. I
personally talked to Mr. Anderson on cell phone. We
e-mailed him this letter. He said that it's out of his
hands, that it's this Commission's role and
responsibility under your direction. He says that he
cannot restore analog meters.
So today, under advisement of our own
counsel, we're providing you also a copy of this letter
from her doctor requesting that we get our analog meter
back and restore some of her health.
A few questions still remain for me. I
said I'm a serious student of studying this
hypersensitivity stuff and I just have touched the
service. I met many people that are even in far worse
condition than my wife.
So if I've agreed to let DTE -- if I've
agreed to pay to have DTE come around and read a meter,
I'm paying extra; why can't they just read an analog
meter that I've had on my house for decades?
Secondly, I'm glad to question the
purpose of the Michigan Public -- the MPSC. I've only
recently become acquainted with your organization, the
Commission. On your website it says the Commission,
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
we're growing the Michigan economy and enhancing the
quality of life by assuring safe, reliable energy and
telecommunication services. I would, from my
observations thus far feel like your Commission is
doing an excellent job ensuring the growth and health
of the monopolistic energy companies, but I would like
to try to hold you accountable if I can to ensuring
that all energy delivered to my house and all the
residents of Michigan is safe and reliable.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Mr. McClellan.
John Holeton.
Good morning.
MR. HOLETON: Good morning, your Honor.
I didn't catch your name earlier.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: It's Susan Sonneborn.
MR. HOLETON: I'm a little hard of
hearing. What's that?
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Suzanne Sonneborn.
MR. HOLETON: Sanborn?
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Sonneborn.
MR. HOLETON: Sonneborn?
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Yes.
MR. HOLETON: And the Staff is -- I
didn't --
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Graham Filler is the
attorney for the Commission Staff.
MR. HOLETON: What's his last name?
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Filler, F-i-l-l-e-r.
MR. HOLETON: I'm hard of hearing. I'm
sorry about that.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: That's okay.
MR. HOLETON: I'm here today on behalf
of myself as a customer of DTE and the people of the
State of Michigan. And I understand that it's called
the Michigan Public Service Commission and the
Commission is not serving the public. There are many
customers in this audience today that are doing without
power because they did not know how to address the
rules, the consumer billing and practices and receive
justice and stop the utilities such as DTE from
terminating their service and leaving them without life
supporting energy.
There's many people in this audience
right now running on generators. And they survived the
winter last year and maybe before, and they might have
to do it this year. And here you are trying to go
ahead and eliminate the due process in the Consumer's
billing practices.
And the gentleman talked earlier, and he
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
read some of the issues on, in 461.37, shutoff or
denial of service is now at the whim of the utilities.
It says without notice. It says under 137.1, if
condition of a customer's premises is determined by the
utility or government agency to be hazardous. And the
definition, there's no definition of hazardous. It's
at the whim of the utility to terminate your power or
shut you off immediately.
And I'm going to refer to the old rule
460.139 (a), (b) and (i) and I that says that the
utility must give a clear and concise reason for
shutoff, that where the customer may make inquiry,
enter into a settlement, or file a compliant. And
you've eliminated that in the new Consumer's billing
practices, that the consumer is not notified when a
utility such as DTE comes on their premises and says:
Give me access, and you say, well, why are you here?
Give me access; if you don't give me access and argue
with me, we're going to shutoff your power. They don't
have to tell you that. They don't have to show their
ID card if they choose not to. They can now, according
to the new rules, without notice, terminate your
service. Where's the due process in that?
I've had to go ahead and file a
complaint. My wife filed a complaint back in 2010 and
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
DTE just walked onto my property, took off my analog
meter, and put on a digital meter. My wife ranted and
raved and screamed and yelled and after a couple weeks
she got the analog meter put back on.
And the MPSC, Carol Simon said: The
MPSC Staff has contacted Detroit Edison on your behalf.
Detroit utility representatives explained that DTE
replaced your current meter with the old style meter;
that's my analog meter. DTE also offered to come out
make, take measurements of the electro-magnetic field,
EMF, around and within your home which you declined.
Should you have any additional concerns or questions
about your complaint, please contact your utility
company directly. This matter is now considered
resolved.
And two years ago DTE came on my
property and demanded to put an AMI meter on my
property. They had a security guard standing in my
driveway, six trucks on my street, and they wanted
access to go ahead and put an AMI meter on my home.
Now according to this I believe I have a
contract that would allow me to mitigate injury. And
it's a fundamental principal of law that if you think
you're going to be injured from any substance or act
that you try to mitigate those damages or injuries to
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you personally.
And DTE took that new meter off and
replaced it with an analog meter, my old analog meter,
back on my home. And they shouldn't have been coming
around and try to go ahead as the gentleman talked
earlier about the electro-magnetic field or the radio
frequency radiation causing his wife to be ill. My
wife wanted to be protected from possible future
injury. And we got the analog meter back and DTE
agreed to do that. So why are they again intentionally
trying to inflict injury and damages on us and we don't
have a recourse.
I filed a complaint with DTE. I filed a
complaint with the MPSC, and they said it's not prima
facie. Now why should I be -- hire a lawyer or go
become a lawyer to go ahead and file a complaint with
the MPSC to get this here contract, or according to the
rules a settlement which is agreeable in the rules,
okay, that we're supposed to be able to enter into a
settlement on 460.139 (a), (b) and No. 2 enter into a
settlement. We got a settlement. We get to keep our
analog meter. Why should I have to become a lawyer or
hire a lawyer or possibly have my electrical service
terminated because I stopped to talk to this DTE
representative.
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Now when I talked to the representative
in my driveway, he listened to me. And he goes, well,
you can't have locks on those meters. I go excuse me,
I will take those locks off if you promise not to put
an AMI meter on my home. You can read my meter,
service my meter, repair my meter, and replace my
meter, you're more than welcome to come back here and
do all that, but you're not allowed to go ahead and put
an AMI meter on because it may have injury and damages.
We've got to mitigate those injury and damages.
And these new rules you're applying here
eliminate our choice, our ability to go ahead and
address a complaint with the MPSC. You are no longer
serving the public. You're serving the electrical
company by allowing them without notice to terminate
our service.
There are people here being injured,
running generators 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
People moved out of their home because they can't live
there because they did not receive a proper notice,
they were not able to file a complaint, an inquiry, and
have time to go ahead and address this.
Your billing practices rules, you
changed 460.115 to 114 that says a customer can
self-read. There is no reason for DTE to come on to a
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person's property and replace a perfectly good analog
meter with an AMI meter that may have potential harm
and injury to a person when they can self-report that
reading on their own by postcard, by fax, by e-mail, by
telephone, according to the rules of the MPSC.
Why would DTE come in and forcefully
demand access and then go ahead because the new rules
say that you changed the definition of customer. The
customer is now an account holder instead of the
purchaser of electricity. It used to be that the
people in the household -- I'm married, my wife is the
head, she has the account. We both pay the bills, we
co-mingle our money. It's our energy. It's our home.
So why am I eliminated from addressing the issue of DTE
coming on my property? All of a sudden, any adult, I'm
residing in that property, I don't know why you're
here, get off the property; well, we'll terminate your
service because according to the rules if the customer
refuses to go ahead and allow admittance to the
property for inspection or repair or whatever, they can
terminate your service and shut it off immediately.
Where's the due process in that? Where is the customer
who has filed the complaint? You've eliminated that
under 460.139. 139, you've eliminated that.
And I don't understand how a customer
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
can go ahead and address these issues. Why should a
customer be burdened with going through this process?
I have a case now, 17986, it's almost
three months old, that I just addressed to you. Okay.
And the judge has still not come up with a decision
because it's about mitigating injury. When is, where
is the rule in this here new standard of billing
practices that says that DTE has failed to go ahead and
comply the settlement that I have here that they will
not go ahead and put a new meter on my home and injure
me? When will DTE not be protected by the MPSC billing
and standard practices and be able to be sued civilly?
Because they are violating our rights. And the MPSC is
changing the rules to go ahead to protect utilities,
not the people of the State of Michigan.
We need to know that we file a
complaint, it's a simple complaint. My wife got
results within three weeks. They came and took that
digital meter off my home and put the analog meter
back.
I've had to go ahead, revise the
complaint to be prima facie. And I know of five other
people who got the same formatted letter. The only
think that changed was the complaint number. Okay.
It's the same letter. They just changed the name to,
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to who it was and the complaint number. It's a form
letter. They didn't even read, as far as I know they
didn't even read my complaint. It's just not prime
fascia.
So I had my hearing. I had my case.
The judge heard it. And I just want to know how we can
address and file a complaint like this gentleman from
the electrical company said earlier, okay. The
complaint is supposed to be a simple process. It
should not take a lawyer to go ahead and come before
you and address a simple complaint. It should be a
matter of choice.
We talked about the DTE and the biggest
thing with the MPSC now is that the 10 percent or
20 percent of outside utility companies trying to go
ahead and wrestle in on DTE's and Consumer's Energy's
territory, consumer choice. It's supposed to be
basically for the schools.
But customers are not given a choice.
Residential customers are not given a choice of another
provider. We're stuck with the utility working its way
on our property.
And we're here today to go ahead and say
that these rules are supposed protect us, the
residential customer, not the corporations. They're
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supposed to put us first. And I wish that you could go
ahead and put a new rule in there, put the rule clear
and precise that a customer can go ahead, file a
complaint, get a hearing, and get results within a
reasonable period of time and not be left out in the
cold without electrical service.
Thank you very much.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Mr. Holeton.
Jeanine Deal.
Good morning.
MS. DEAL: Good morning. I'm Jeanine
Deal. I live in Battle Creek, Michigan.
Regarding Case No. U-18120, it is my
view that full disclosure by public utility companies
to customers regarding equipment must be added to the
Consumer Standards and Billing Practices for Electric
and Natural Gas Service Rules.
If a public utility customer asks any
questions about metering technology, the public utility
company must be obliged to give all the information
possible on the equipment to the customer.
I argue that public utility customers
have a right to know exactly what public utility
companies propose to install on homes and businesses.
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This is my view because new natural gas
meters are not called smart meters. They're called AMR
ERT. Some refer to them as a Trojan horse because they
do not look like a transmitting meter but indeed they
are.
When we asked the installers on two
separate occasions how frequently these new meters
transmitted, instead of telling us that they
transmitted over 450,000 times per month, they told us
that they transmit only once per month. That's a huge
discrepancy in my opinion.
I was already avoiding cell phone use
because of a sensitivity I had developed to radio
frequency radiation. I could not hold a cell phone to
my ear without feeling constant pain so I had stopped
putting the phone to my ear and the pain went away,
only to return two years later after AMR ERT natural
gas meters were installed.
Had the utility company, the natural gas
company, been obliged to give us full disclosure we
would have refused installation.
According to the proposed new rules, our
natural gas provider would have turned our natural gas
service off and it could have been done without notice.
It is my opinion that here in Michigan that rule could
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METRO COURT REPORTERS, INC. (248) 426-9530
prove to be catastrophic for public utility customers.
If it is in the winter and below
freezing it could be a matter of hours before pipes
begin to freeze and burst resulting in loss of
property.
It is my view that a minimum of a 21-day
notice must be given to public utility customers prior
to any shutoff, for any reason whatsoever.
It is also my view that an analog meter
choice be added to the new rules. As evidenced by the
Oversight Committee Hearing in December of 2014, and
perhaps maybe half of the people here, there is a
growing number of people in Michigan unable to tolerate
new metering technology.
I cannot tolerate AMR ERT meters, but
our natural gas provider has no analog choice. I argue
that it is our right to choose what radio frequency
radiation and electro-magnetic field emitting devices
are in and on our homes.
To reiterate, I would like full
disclosure by public utility companies to customers
regarding equipment. I would like a minimum of a
21-day notice given to public utility customers prior
to any and all shutoffs for any reason, and I would
like an analog meter choice for those who are suffering
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with this new illness, new condition called
electro-magnetic sensitivity. Thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you, Ms. Deal.
Georgetta Livingston.
Good morning.
MS. LIVINGSTON: My name is Georgetta
Livingston. I live in Clarkston.
I have to say ahead of time I just came
from a business date last night at midnight, and I went
to bed at 2:30. I got up 5:00 so I'm very tired,
however; I want to get my point across. I appreciate
very much given this opportunity to express our
experiences. It's not a opinion, it's what we live
day-by-day.
I do reiterate everything which has been
said before because I experience it on my own whatever
they say in a different way.
There is no record that what has
happened to me even happened. I don't exist to DTE, to
MPSC, to the legislature, to the AG, to the governor.
The utility DTE never gave me anything in writing, as
existing rules, requirements, nothing before, nothing
after.
After they cut off my power in 2014,
July, they did not give me any information as to how I
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could resolve this, who to call, who to file a
complaint to, nothing. There is no line item for my
situation in the current Rule 133 of reporting
requirements.
Where was the shutoff reported in DTE's
2014 Rule 133 report? I had no delinquent bill
recorded in my account. There is a small, considered
to be a small group of individuals whose body reacted
immediately to the radio frequency radiation. Though
we are small, we do exist. Our voice, our rights to
save energy, has been denied.
We need a written and electronic
detailed receipt each time there's a contact with the
utility, especially when they enter our property.
What I will share next is why I say what
I do, what I do. I reiterate, I agree with what has
been said. The rules are written in mind to protect
the utility company and exclude, disregard completely
the customer, and they are meant for customer
delinquent on their bill.
Where is the rule holding accountable
the utility companies? What is the rule that prevents
utility company to violate a constitutional right, the
Constitution of the United States and of the Michigan
that requires that every rule of legislation to be, to
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consider the health of the individual?
I'm a very energetic person. I have a
Ph.D. and two masters degrees in engineering, and I
taught mechanical engineering for 14 years. I knew
nothing about smart meters. I never heard the term.
And I thought that DTE is a very reputable company that
I gave high respect until it happened.
In 2011 without full disclosure, with
misleading and misguiding statements of absolute
benefit of these new meters, having no ideas, I -- all
of us allowed them to install them. Soon after that,
the bill almost doubled.
I called DTE and I complained and they
raised their voice. They treat you like you are a
non-human person. What is MPSC's role in regulating
their behavior? The cost, I believe, as a very
educated professional, though not in the electrical
field but did have related courses, that the technology
that they use to bill the customer is fraudulent. The
mathematic algorithm must be checked and verified by a
very specialized third party that can verify the rates.
I feel a company shouldn't bill such high rates.
A few months after that I got very ill.
90 percent of my body still was covered with something
like a rash, insomnia, palpitation. I am very healthy.
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I didn't know what it was.
I happened to receive a medical
newsletter, unsolicited, in which a medical doctor
described a high frequent number of patients coming
with unknown symptoms. Treated they did not respond, I
did not respond, from step to step, and go straight to
the radio frequency radiation which altered in turn,
provided, gave this kind of effect, health -- adverse
health effect that leads it to cancer.
As soon as the individuals removed the
meter, which thousands of them now do across the
nation, states have legislation that allow customers to
choose the analog meter which is equally harmful, but
the analog, the electromechanical meter without any
consequences. And I knew personally individuals in
other states that request to remove the new meter with
the old analog, and it was done without any commotion.
So I continue with this, I notified DTE
about my health condition. They totally ignore it. It
was a long process of communication. They totally
treat you as a non-human. That's why I said we, we
don't exist. We are real people, flesh and blood, and
we have to suffer unsolicited invasion of our primary
body by these radio frequency waves into our home.
This is not the right of DTE. That's a violation.
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So I would like to see Michigan Public
Service Commission, it serve, it's meant to serve the
public. That's what's stated, that's what's it is. If
Michigan Public Commission abdicate their role to serve
the public you should change the name, dissolve it and
whatever organization you want to support DTE against
the human.
So summarizing my story again, it was
not enough that I got very ill. Then I as a result of
non-response from DTE, I had to protect my health and
my home, I had to purchase -- I notified them, I told
them several times, I had to replace the smart meter
with an analog meter, newly purchased.
As a result of this it was a most
incredible thing. That same day it was the happiest
days in my life. No anxiety, nervousness, just
invisible huge invasion of your health, of your mental
health. It's undescribable. But as a result of this,
DTE turned off my power while I was at work on the 10th
of July 2014. And ever since, I don't have any power.
Because winter is coming, you can't
survive a winter in Michigan, I live on other sources
of power, solar panels, and you have paid by our tax
payer money, but I have to pay for my, the association
communicated with DTE eventually they file a lawsuit by
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me hundreds of dollars per day for having the solar
panels and they file a lawsuit asking the court to
dispossess me from my property because I try to
survive.
So I, and many people like me that are
treated as criminals, but we are law abiding, we are
not delinquent, we pay for the service, but we have a
choice. Die by radio frequency through serious
illnesses, end up ending of life, people burned alive,
any other issues with that, or choose, in my choice
alternative sources of energy and you are criminalized
for that and spend money in court now to survive.
I supply space in the record cold
winter, no heat in the house, no electricity, no water,
nothing. Everything we build a house and its power
driven. Where is the rules that protect the customers
against such abuses? So it's DTE who discriminates
against citizens like me because their body gets sick
because of this radio frequency. So they deny service.
They instigate home association to disposess [sic] and
force me into homelessness; for what? What is the
crime we did? How does Michigan Public Service
Commission protect citizens like me for their struggle
to survive without inflicting any range or pain or in
justice or harm to anyone else.
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What is our protection? We are flesh
and blood. We are citizens just like you. We pay you
to protect us. And we want to be considered and
treated as citizens and human beings. We do want to
eliminate this monopoly. Give us the right to have
other suppliers of powers. I have no regard and no
respect, no consideration for DTE by how they treated
me and many other people.
And I would like the analog meter back
as many others, not what they consider opt-out. It's
totally distrustful. I would like Public Service
Commission to investigate in their algorithm of
charging customers. It's over-charging and this is
improper.
Thank you very much.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Ms. Livingston.
John Kurczewski.
Good morning.
MR. KURCZEWSKI: Hello. I want to thank
the MPSC for allowing us to submit our comments
regarding these proposed rule changes.
I have seen the suffering. I'm not --
I'm spiritual though, but I'm not way, way, way, you
know supreme spiritual. I have witnessed a dear friend
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of mine go through hell. She was close to death. The
effects from the EMF radiation that were coming off
that digital meter nearly killed her.
Now I don't understand why this
Commission, this very Commission heard from a
nationally recognized expert, Dr. David Carpenter, a
Harvard trained doctor who specializes in environmental
medicine. He testified under oath before this
Commission specifically that there are health dangers
associated with these smart meters. I, I wouldn't have
believed it myself but I saw it.
I've told people, I says in my lifetime,
and I'm 67 years old, in my lifetime I think that's the
closest thing that I'm ever going to witness in my life
that would be considered a miracle. This woman, after
her husband went, because the Consumer Powers would not
remove her meter, and when her husband said I can't
watch my wife suffer no longer. He got a meter, an
analog, he put it on the house.
The next day his wife went right down to
the doctors when they did and she did jumping jacks.
They could not believe that they were watching the same
patient. They were stunned.
And furthermore, the, as I originally
wrote back in June, it is inhumane and possibly illegal
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according to the United Nations Charter which the U.S.
signed and is a member to impose needless suffering on
an individual. These utilities, they have proof, they
have scientific evidence behind them, they have
doctors' letters behind them saying -- and by the way
the Americans with Disabilities has now listed
electro-sensitivity as a qualifying disability. This
is stunning to me.
This is -- somebody's finally
starting to listen. I would hope this Commission
would have least listen and maybe take another look at
Dr. Carpenter's testimony who is concise and clear.
This is, this is an expert. This Commission chose to
take the side of the utility companies. I've gone to,
I've gone to many board meetings where the utilities
come in and they hold up the meter and say these are
perfectly safe. I even told one, I says that man is
lying to you, and I base that on the testimony that
this Commission received.
It's, there has to be a rule to address
for medical health people. These people, these people
pay their bills there on time. And it's my
understanding that in the rules, the only reports that
the utilities are required to make are for
disconnections -- I mean for non-payment, behind on
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their bills. These people are not behind on their
bills. They've paid. They're good citizens and
they're being just crippled.
I saw this woman go from walking, to a
cane, to a walker, to a wheelchair, to being
home-bound. It's, we should not have to live like
this. It's just, it's not, it's not conceivable.
And if I may speak to some of the other
people that have mentioned, I think the utilities ought
to be obligated to inform residents. If they're going
to put this technology, I think it's, it's almost --
not almost, I think it's mandatory that they let
customers know the dangers which has been proven by
sworn testimony to this Commission.
There are -- I have done homework on
this for one year. That's when my friend was cut off.
And they're still suffering without power today because
Consumer's Energy refuses under any circumstance, under
any circumstance to have an analog meter to save her
life.
Thank you very much for listening.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Mr. Kurczewski.
Jaime Chimner.
Good morning.
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MS. CHIMNER: Good morning. Thank you
for allowing us to come and talk. And I'm that woman
he was talking about. I almost died from that digital
meter. And Mr. McKee would not look at my four
doctors' letters that I have right here. He smirked at
us.
Going back to the beginning, my name is
Jaime Chimner. I live in Cheboygan, Michigan. And I
never thought in my life that I would have to deal with
this but here I am. They said just, just speak from my
heart. That's all I know. Consumer's Energy almost
killed me and they think it's funny.
Well, I couldn't walk. I started out
with a pain, then I got a cane, then I got a walker,
and then I got a wheelchair. I couldn't even function
as a wife to my new husband who had to carry me. I
gained 35 to 40 pounds of fluid between January 2015
and August 20th of 2015. I had to have, buy all new
clothes. I had -- it was, it was terrible. I had
sharp pain going through my whole body for the last two
years before a year ago.
I was, I was ready, I had given up on
life and I was ready to take my own life. Had my
husband not done what he did, and he pulled the meter,
he pulled the breaker on the meter and he said I'm
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turning off the electricity, and I've learned not to
ask why. And I went to bed crying in pain as I did
every night.
And I woke up that next day and I could
walk. I could feel my body. I was jumping up and down
at 6:30 in the morning, going Joe, we've to go to the
doctor right now, I know he's in, I have to show him
this. It was the meter. We've suffered so long, six
years, and it was the meter.
And the meter was replaced in 2006
because they accused my husband of stealing
electricity. And he worked on the Great Lakes
freighters for 11, 12 months out of the year, he was
never home. So they changed, they said well, to better
monitor our electricity, we'll put this digital meter
on. And he said okay. He didn't -- this was in 2006.
That was the year they started putting in the switch
mode power supply. I believe we had one of those.
And that's -- the minute we got married,
October 10th, 2009, and a few months before that we
lived together, I had started in my groin, went down to
all parts of my body such severe pain to the point
where my whole body was, was suffering. And my doctors
had no idea what to do.
We did the research. And when they came
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in and said they were bringing in smart meters, my
husband did a lot of research. And my friend John did
a lot of research, and he said -- he didn't tell me
what the research was because I didn't want to know. I
was suffering enough. I couldn't leave my house. I
haven't seen my children in four years.
But when he pulled that meter, when he
turned off that meter and said it's the digital meter,
I was -- I cried, and I was just so happy to be able to
move. And no one, no one should have to suffer like
that when they don't have to. He ordered an analog
meter and we sent back the digital meter to Mr. Dan
Malone with all the legal paperwork we were told to
send by the company we ordered it from.
And Mr. McKee showed up. He called and
said we need to talk. I said we're having a public
meeting today, come, that's where I'll be. He said
well, I'll be there.
So in front of about 50 people he said
you either take this digital meter or we're going over
and cutting off your power. And I said I will not
choose between life and death, and you will wait until
tomorrow morning -- until tomorrow afternoon at 2:00,
no sooner, no later.
So the next morning we woke up as soon
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as we could and we started making phone calls. We must
have called 25, 30 people, organizations. Nobody could
help us. Mr. McKee smirked and laughed at us because
we had health problems. There were other people there.
No man who is doing public relations for a company
laughs at somebody who is suffering.
And it's -- we called the MPSC to have
an investigation done on Mr. McKee. He was terrorizing
me, saying if you don't take this I'm cutting your
electricity. Do you know how terrorizing that feels?
When you're suffering so much anyway, and you find a
meter that you can live with, and they're going to tell
me I can't have it, I have to die? And God forbid when
the analog gas meters aren't there anymore, what are we
going to do? What are the hundreds of people like me
going to do?
And they're so many more out there. I
have people calling our house saying how do I get this
smart meter off my house? How do I get this digital
meter off my house? And I say I don't know. I'm
trying. I have to think of the court and I don't have
any money. But I don't have electricity.
September 11th of 2015, Mr. Dennis McKee
said you either take this digital meter or I'll cut
your power, and I said cut it at the pole. You stand
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here and wait for a bucket truck. And that whole time
he just stood there and just smiled at me. And I
couldn't take it anymore and I just left and left my
husband to deal with it.
But there should be, you're taking off
the -- I don't know, I've had a brain injury, excuse
me, so I have a little trouble understanding certain
things, and I received this when I walked in and I'm
not fully familiar with all of that. But I do know the
discrimination rule that you're going to take out is
wrong. You need to, you have to leave that in. You
have to give people a place to be able to complain and
say -- I have four doctors' letters, they're saying she
cannot live with an analog meter. No one should have
to live without electricity, without a refrigerator,
without water, without natural gas.
My God, what do we have to do to get an
analog meter? That's all I want. I worked as an EMT
for 16 years and I saw a lot of bad things but I took
care of those people. And now I need help, and I don't
know how to help myself because the MPSC has charged us
for investigating us when we told them everything.
Excuse me, I can't see through my tears.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Take your time.
MS. CHIMNER: I am chemically sensitive.
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I have many medical problems which the digital meter
intensified. I am now electro-magnetic sensitized. I
have to watch -- I have a mask that I wear. I have it
with me because if someone has perfume -- thank you --
any kind of chemicals I'll go right down to the floor.
I don't have anything that's normal so
it's hard for Consumer's to understand it and I don't
think they would try anyway. I can't have a transmit
meter. We've gone to the water company in our town who
were going to put in the water meters and they said
we're not going to put one on your house. He said
we're letting anybody who doesn't want them, we're not
going to give them to them. I've done research, I'm
not going do that to you, you don't have to worry about
the water, we'll make it safe for you, at least for the
water.
Now why can't my electric company for
the small amount of people who need these meters, why
can't they get over their ego that Mr. McKee has that
we had to deal with and just give me an analog meter or
there's not that many people. They're, you can't hack
into them very easily I've heard. And there's,
they're, just the other day there -- someone else will
be mentioning that.
But I shouldn't have to choose between
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life and death, and that's where I'm at. I can't
afford to take them to court. But they won't -- and I
guess if death is the alternative then put the analog
back -- the digital back on my house because I don't
know how I'll make it through another winter. I don't
know how that woman's made it through two winters. I
mean I've been to the ER because I can't run -- I have
severe asthma, I can't run my nebulizer or any machines
that I need, my two special air cleaners that I need to
filter my air because I'm so chemically sensitive. I
can't run any of these. My asthma has gotten worse.
My doctors don't know what to do because
Consumer's Energy won't work with them or me. And I
just don't know what else to do but to come here and
tell you my story and tell you that some of these rules
have to stay in there to protect the consumer because
we're not -- because if they become a monopoly, DTE and
Consumer's Energy or whatever, we won't have a choice
for anything. And what will happen to those people
like me who will die if I don't have an analog meter?
And that's no exaggeration. I'll give you the four
doctors letters. Please --
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Ms. Chimner, I'm so
sorry to interrupt you. I'm worried that we don't have
enough time for everybody who's present to come up, but
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I do want to thank you very much for appearing. If you
have a few more minutes that will be fine, but you may
also submit written comments.
MS. CHIMNER: I have, I have.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Okay. Thank you.
MS. CHIMNER: But I thank you for giving
us the opportunity to come and speak. And if John
hadn't been so right to my heart I wouldn't be crying
here right now. But he put it the way it was, I either
live or die, and it's in your hands. That's all I can
say.
Thank you very much.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Ms. Chimner.
Nancy Shules.
MS. SHULES: Good morning.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Good morning.
MS. SHULES: I'm a fortunate one who
lives in Presque Isle County and they have informed us
that they won't be doing smart meters. However, my
daughter lives in Traverse City and we put a little
sign up on the meter saying no smart meter with the tie
wrap, and the guy walked on the property, cut it all
off, took the meter off the house, and put in a digital
meter. So we went through the process of opting out,
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did everything they told us to do, and they came back
and put in an opt-out meter, which is virtually a
digital meter.
So I don't understand why I can go to
the YMCA and choose what bathroom I want to use, but I
don't get to choose what meter I want on a home that I
own. It just seems wrong to me, that in this country
we have choices, and this is not a choice.
And I was at the same meeting with Jaime
and Dennis McKee stood there and smirked at us and
laughed at us. And he is -- it's just wrong that
anyone in his position would treat a group of 60 people
who came to protest the way he did.
And like I said I'm lucky, I have an
analog meter. We get a bill every month and at the
bottom of it we put down what the meter reader says,
and once a year they come around and, you know, verify
and write if we have paid too much, they compensate, et
cetera. So I don't get why people can't have an analog
meter and read it themselves. We -- I've done this for
years.
The guy at, in Traverse City told us
that it's going to cost more money to put in a digital
meter because they man will have to get out of his
vehicle and walk up to the house to read it instead of
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being able to do it from, the smart meter from his car.
And to me if they are so lazy that they can't get out
of their car and walk to the house, then they should
let my daughter fill it a form and send it to them
every month. There's a simple solution to this: Let
us have a choice.
Thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Ms. Shules.
Jim McKindles.
Good morning.
MR. MCKINDLES: Good morning. I too was
at that meeting with Mr. McKee and he was an arrogant
SOB is my opinion.
Anyhow, what I'm here to do is I want to
talk about the money, the money that the politicians
are receiving from these mega corporations is obscene,
especially the Senator, Meekhof. I know it's not part
of what we're doing today but it boils down to money.
And I think it also it could be involving with the MPSC
as far as the monies that could be flowing through
their coffers somehow, through these mega corporations.
And everybody has already spoke about,
spoken about more, much of what I wanted to speak about
so I don't want to, you know, do it again.
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But I think we need choice, not only
meter choice but choice of which companies we want.
There's a, we have a 90 percent monopoly status
according to the MPSC rules that the mega corporations
can do. And in Ohio they're paying about a third of
what most of us here in Michigan are paying because
they have choice is the, is what I can think of. So
it's all about choice, not only the meter but the
utility company that serves us.
Thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Mr. McKindles.
Kathy Johnson.
Good morning.
MS. JOHNSON: Good morning. My name is
Kathy Johnson. I live in Livingston County. And I
do understand that we are here today regarding Case
No. U-18120; however there's a few things that are
being changed within this document that I feel open the
door relative to smart meters.
As far as R 460.113 that discusses the
meter reading procedures and accuracy of the meters,
I'd like to know why it is being stricken, the fact of
estimated billings. And within that same section of
the document, it comes on to say that they need
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accurate billings. And under iii, it says: The
utility may install a remote meter, actual meter
reading device, or other similar devices. Why is the
MPC allowing these corporations to create rules within
our state that we have to follow that the federal
government doesn't even mandate? The federal
government does not mandate to any state that people
have to have smart meters from these corporations, but
yet the big corporations in Michigan are trying to get
you, our elected officials, to shove this down our
throats, and it's not right.
There's too many problems with these
meters that they're not disclosing to people. As far
as the meters themselves -- let me look at my notes,
just a moment -- as far as the meters we have been
trying the public to try and get a rule changed where
we don't have just an opt-out for the meters, we want
an opt-out along with keeping the analog meters.
However, a few of our elected officials in Lansing
won't even bring this bill to even be discussed on the
floor in order for our, our rights to be heard. It's
all stalled, and they won't bring it before anybody.
But yet everybody in Lansing is there because we voted
them in. Where is, where is our representation?
As far as the MPC -- MPSC, it's like
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everything that's in this document is benefiting
nothing but the utility company and there's nothing in
it that benefits the person that is paying for the
utility.
And as far as these smart meters go,
they want to put it on our house. And even with the
opt-out, it is sending dirty electricity through our
house on a 24-hour a day basis. They may have the
meter turned off that transmits the data to their
company, but on a 24-hour a day basis that meter is
running because there's now two legs of this meter
versus one that only showed usage, there's a leg coming
in, a leg going out and that electricity is constantly
going through the house sending the data back to the
meter. That part still functions even though the radio
frequency is off.
My grandson who has tinnitus, never had
a problem. My daughter thought she should have opted
for the opt-out meter. She got that put in her house.
Ever since then he's had problems. He never complained
about tinnitus, never. Now he's complaining and raging
migraines and problems with this tinnitus that he's
never had before. That meter is directly below his
bedroom window on the outside wall of the home.
There's no reason he should have to suffer from that.
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Another thing that the corporations are
doing, being DTE, is they're not telling anybody that
these meters take electricity now to run, and what they
have done with these meters is they have taken the
electrical part of it that cost to run it, and they're
put it on the Consumer's part of the meter so we're not
only having them shoved down our throat, but we're
paying to run our own meter, which is why these bills
are going up. That is not fair.
If these meters were safe, they should
be forced to put the charges to run the new meter
because they chose to make it that way on their side of
it. So they're getting a raise that way and it's my
understanding that they're trying to get raises in
their electrical fees on top of this. That is not
right.
I don't want this meter. I don't want
the health ramifications from this meter, and I think
that everybody involved, being from yourself, the MPSC,
they should be representing us, the people, and not big
business, and not DTE and Consumer's Energy.
It's my understanding also that I have
DTE and I have Consumer's. Consumer's cannot put a
smart meter on my home because they don't own my
electrical. If they owned my electrical, if I had both
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of them, they could put both on. But because they
don't own my electrical, they can not put a smart meter
on my gas meter because it takes money to run and they
can't run it through DTE's electrical and have those
fees go through there.
So maybe eventually they're going to try
and change territories to where everything's under one
territory, then they could just smart meter everybody.
But I personally do not want these meters and I think
that the representatives, the elected representatives
should start listening to the public not only for their
well-being in the future being re-elected but also as
far as our health problems. You are here to represent
us, not DTE and Consumer's.
Thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much
Ms. Johnson.
Sandy Taylor.
Good morning.
MS. TAYLOR: Good morning.
I didn't prepare a speech. I'm just
going to speak to you a little bit from my heart.
I too feel, I don't mean to throw a
knife at the Commission when I say this, but I truly
believe with all my heart that the MPSC is supporting
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DTE and that they don't give a damn about us. They're
force their agendas down our throat. They're going to
force their meters down our throat. I don't want them.
A little bit about what happens to me on
a daily basis, it's been so for a couple years. I go
outside and if I see a DTE truck, my hands start
shaking, I start shaking all over, thinking, oh my, God
are they going to put one of those on my home? Well,
they finally showed up, and I had a guy tell me a
couple weeks ago, you know, we're just going to keep
coming back, and we're going to put it on when you're
not here.
Well, I don't care if they're here or
not. I have a cage, I have a lock. So what, they're
going to disconnect my power? They're going to punish
me because I don't want that meter on my home. That
meter emits radiation 24/7. That's not a good thing.
And you will hear the electric company
say the meter is ours, the box is yours. Well, fine,
the house that they want to put it on is mine. Don't I
have a say about what gets put on my home?
I feel threatened by it. I feel unsafe
by it, yet I feel like it's being shoved down my
throat. That's not the America I know and I want to
know what's going on. And why, why -- and I agree
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everything that I'm seeing in that document, it's all
to protect DTE. What about us, don't we matter? I
guess not. There's a bigger agenda here than that.
There's no reason for this. It's
inexcusable the way we're being treated. I don't know
what's going to happen to me, and I look at it this
way: Part of what is being taken is there is the
statement if something is hazardous or unsafe, and they
can deem whatever that is. They can create that to be
whatever it is. You have a lock on your meter, that's
unsafe. I talked to the fire department chief, the
inspector, he said that's not a problem. He said they
carry bolt cutters around. If they had to cut the cage
and the lock they can do that instantly. So that is
not a threat. How can they come up with that being a
possible threat? So that's not true.
And I think that these rules that are
being put in there is everything to support them to be
able to do or say whatever they want, whatever it
takes, whatever it takes to get that meter on our
homes.
We don't want it. Why do we've to have
it? And why is it their choice? There should be a
choice and it shouldn't have to be the same meter which
is the non-transmitting meter so they say.
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And another thing I feel, since they
emit radiation 24/7, which they do, I got to thinking
about this one day from a logical point of view. I
don't care about degrees everybody has, this is just a
common sense statement to me. When you go to the
doctor's office or your dentist's office, to get a scan
for a tooth, those people get the heck out of the
office. They get out of there as fast as they can so
they aren't exposed to that radiation for that
momentary period of time.
Same thing with chest x-rays, when you
go for chest x-rays, they get out of there, because
radiation affects human bodies. We're biological.
Yet, they can put that meter on our home, and run it
24/7 on us, and that's okay. Does that even make
sense? That doesn't even make sense to me that that
can possibly be. And I can't understand how people
can't see that.
So what I would say to you is I hope you
can look past some of this, re-evaluate what's only
going on, what's happening. We do need people to look
out for us. Big business isn't always the best thing.
This is an example of it. I think we should have a
choice on the utility companies, we should have a
choice on the meters. We shouldn't have to beg for
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something like this.
Look at the poor lady crying her heart
out. Tell me that that wasn't real. And Georgetta,
listening to what these people say. How much farther
does it have to go? Other states have kicked these
out, run them out I know Brady, Texas kicked them out.
It's because they're being proven there's problems with
them. I don't know why Michigan can't do it too. Just
give us a choice, this is what I ask.
Thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Ms. Johnson.
Carole Garcia.
Good morning.
MS. GARCIA: Good morning, your Honor.
My name is Carole Garcia. I give in Bruce Township.
And I'm here in regards to the, basically here to
request some changes to the rules. I happen to be EHS
sensitive, so I can relate to Georgette and the other
young lady that has health issues. I've had to move
out of my home. I went through total hell trying to
deal with DTE, sent them letters, sent them my medical
documents from my three medical doctors, two from
Beaumont Hospital stating they do not want me to have
any of these devices on my home.
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These devices are microwave radiation
devices. They're on 24/7. It's like sitting in a CAT
Scan and MRI 24/7. And this is not me, this is per
medical doctors who study this field.
Dr. Barrie Trower, he talks about this
technology. It's all wireless. So cell phones, WiFi,
smart meters, they're not smart at all but they're
microwave radiation devices. This is all microwave
radiation devices, the cell towers as well. He said
anybody even that puts this in the school should be
locked up for life because it affects the children.
And it has affected me terribly. I mean
like I say I moved from Sterling Heights to Rochester
Hills. When I lived in Sterling Heights I had no
meters, I was healthy, fine. I moved to Rochester
Hills, and after a little over a month I started to
have health issues; bloody nose, headaches, vertigo,
insomnia, heart palpitations. I didn't know what was
going on.
And a friend of mine read an article and
said, it talked about these advanced meters that DTE
was putting on homes. And she said do you have this
and I said: Well, what is it? So I went out and
looked. Not only did I have one, but I had two on my
bedroom wall.
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And I did everything I possibly could do
in a diplomatic way, sent them letters, sent things to
MPSC, Aric Nesbitt, the whole nine yards, and I never
got no responses back from anybody.
So my doctors basically said you cannot
live like this. My oncologist at Beaumont has
diagnosed me with stem cell disorder. And right now
being in this room right now I'm starting to get a
bloody nose. I've been wiping it because that's how
sensitive I am to this. I'm EHS sensitive.
My house in Rochester, I tried moving
downstairs to get away from the bedroom, it didn't
help. However, if I went to Brighton, Michigan to
visit my brother where they have none, or I went to see
friends of mine who didn't have them, my health, it's
like you come back to life. I can't explain it,
because with the meters I feel brain fog. I can just
go over some of the symptoms: Brain fog, headache,
bloody nose, nausea, insomnia, heart palpitations like
where your heart feels like it's going like this, I
can't explain it. It's almost like anxiety. And I
have low blood pressure so it's not normal.
And so I had to move out of Rochester,
my home in Rochester to Brownstown Township and the
reason I moved there because there was no smart meter.
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I had a well, so I didn't have to worry about a smart
microwave radiating water heater, that's worse. And
gas, I don't have Consumer's Energy so I don't have to
worry about that because I talked to them about it and
they do not have that on my house, I have an analog.
I'm here for meter choice, to fight
this, that we have a meter choice, that we have a
voice. DTE is like a dictatorship dictating to us what
we've got to have on our homes. People that are EHS
sensitive or people that have medical devices, this
affects horribly, terribly. I mean something's got to
be done. We need people working for us, not working
for the big utility companies, and that's what's going
on right now.
I had to retire from my job at General
Motors because of the technology downtown after 39
years. I wanted to work longer because I'm still quite
young, but I had to retire. And I do medical mission
trips. I have a medical background as well.
This has, this has got to stop.
Something's got to be done. MPSC has to help us
because DTE is, I mean DTE is being, it's -- they're so
big that they don't care. They feel they can do
whatever they want to do and nobody's going to check
them at it.
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Well, if you go into the FOIA request
because I had family members that are in law, you can
find out that DTE has given lot of our state
legislators money for their campaigns, and under the
table too, and this has been proved. And you guys have
to help us because we've got people suffering.
I mean I can show you right now on this
meter. I have to carry this where ever I go. It
should be in green. It's in red. We are all being
radiated right now. This is microwave radiation. We
are all being inundated and I know immediately because
my nose starts to bleed.
My daughter-in-law is a teacher and in
her school is WiFi. My grandson, she was carrying my
grandson at the time. My grandson was born with a very
rare cataract in his right eye. My son and daughter
had WiFi in their house, and we had one of the guys
come over and test the house where the smart meter is
connected to the fuse box. It's under my grandson's
room. And he is now 17 months old, starting to get
bloody noses. That's how I started.
I mean I've got make-up on and I'm
dressed and this and that and everything, but this
stuff kills me. I can't have it. As soon as I moved
to my new home they came out and put that meter on my
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home. And I called and they said: Well, there's
nothing you can do.
I mean somebody's got to help us. I
mean we're, we're the -- how do I want to say this, the
canary in the coalmine, so to speak. It shouldn't be
that way because medical doctors that study this,
Dr. Carpenter, Dr. Trower and so many, many more have
stated that this stuff, this technology, this microwave
radiation that we are all being exposed to causes
cancer, Parkinson's disease, dementia, leukemia, and
those are the long-term side effects. Short-term is
all the side effects I've given you and other people
here have given you.
There's people suffering all across the
country and they don't know why. Doctors that are
doctors, they don't know this technology. I have
brought tons and tons of information to my medical
doctors after, I mean I've been studying this stuff
like I'm studying for a test. I mean I have learned so
much. I've got people calling me: Carol, can you come
and test my house. John was nice enough to come to my
house to test it. I mean it was horrible in there.
John Holeton and Pauline, I owe my life to them.
But anyway I'm just, I mean something's
got to be done, your Honor. I mean we can't go on
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moving out of our homes, running from our homes. This
is our safe haven. We should be able to live there in
peace and harmony and not have to worry about if we're
going to live until next year because we're being
inundated so bad.
So I'm asking you to expand the rules
that Michigan residents can have a meter choice without
a fee. We can read our own readers, we're very
intelligent individuals. And that that be put on
there. That each person in Michigan can have a meter
choice if we want to keep our analogs or if we want to
have a advanced microwave radiating device.
I've got some papers I'll give to you as
well. There's many doctors. There's a biological and
health effects report on microwave radio frequency,
it's about this thick. It's from medical doctors who
study only this in the field. And they tell you,
everything you're hearing here today, they are telling
the same thing, that this stuff is bad.
Dr. Barrie Trower said that they used
the microwave radiation technology back in the navy
during the war against the enemy. Well, you know, we
must be the enemy to DTE because they are using it on
us. I've talked to Jim McCormick, I've talked to
Robert Sitkauskus. You don't know how many letters,
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I've reached out. I'm totally exhausted now.
So please, I ask you please help all of
us and the tens of thousands out there all around the
country that are suffering from this and as well as
what these cell towers they are putting in our
neighborhoods. This is all microwave radiation.
Thank you so much.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much
Ms. Garcia.
Deanna Gilbert.
MS. HILBERT: Hilbert.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Oh, excuse me, yes,
Deanna Hilbert.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Hello. My name is
Deanna Hilbert, H-i-l-b-e-r-t. I'm sorry, my printing
is bad.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you.
MS. HILBERT: I just, I wanted to
discuss the need for expansion update for the rules
regarding especially electric shutoffs. I appreciate
this opportunity.
I'm a registered nurse and have come to
know many people with health issues related to the new
AMI meters. Many of these people had their electricity
shut off or have been threatened by DTE, Consumer's,
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and some of the companies that are contracted with
these companies.
There just seems to be a different rule,
different process, almost in every situation. Many
people have gotten letters saying they have to choose
opt-out or, you know, may have their electricity shut
off. Some of these people have gotten, you know,
notices of a time when they could be shutoff, some have
not. Some people have gotten telephone calls. Some
people have had people come to their doors, others have
not.
There have been elderly and many
individuals with poor health who have had their
electricity shut off without notice. Some of them had
their electricity shut off where they have important
medical equipment for life, you know, to sustain their
life, or refrigeration for life-sustaining medication.
There just seems there has to be a consistent process
to the shutoff process.
So in a different vain I wanted to share
a story of an elderly woman who felt threatened by DTE.
She choice the opt-out. She paid the fee for the
opt-out. She paid her monthly fee. And then she's
getting estimated bills. So like I just don't -- it
does just doesn't, nothing seems to really add up.
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There's definitely a need for this, an update this.
Then I just wanted to share my
experience with DTE this year. At the end of July I
received a letter that I had to choose between the
opt-out or a smart meter, and if I ignored this that I
may, and I quote, may get my electricity shutoff. I
made several calls. I could not find anybody at DTE
who would talk to me or the smart meter department.
I was eventually directed to the fraud
department and I spoke to somebody there. I told the
woman I'm going out of town on a vacation out of the
country for three days. I requested an appointment,
you know, I was willing to go with the opt-out,
requested an appointment to set it up right away or
when I returned. And I was refused and I was told if I
do not allow access to my meter while I was gone I
could possibly have my electricity shutoff while I was
out of the country.
So I have sensitive electronic equipment
in my home, I felt it was important that I was there to
make sure that the meter is shut off, the transmission
device. If I'm going to pay for that I feel it's my
right.
Now I've known individuals where it has
been shut off in the cases where they choose the
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opt-out. And I feel, you know, that this is important,
it should be my right if I'm going to do this.
I want to thank you for considering
changing the rules. I hope they'll be good changes
coming forth. It's time for the MPSC to represent the
citizens and not just the utilities.
I'm sure that you're aware there's
probably about 20 states allow for accommodations for
people with health issues, that allow analog options
and it's just no problem.
So thank you again. And --
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Ms. Hillbert.
De Liddy.
Good morning.
MS. LIDDY: Good morning. My name is
Deborah Liddy and I live in Mount Morrissey County and
I'm here representing my 81 year old mother who has two
of these meters behind her chair and she can't move.
One of them is a gatherer which it emits 700,000 times
a second or a minute or whatever but my mother can't
walk. And my mother ran a motel for 28 years in
Harrison.
I'm also here to say this is extortion
and this is, as far as I'm concerned Tom Hartman on
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Free Speech TV said it the best: 20 percent of all the
CEOs in the United States of America are sociopaths
which means they have no empathy, they have no
compassion. They are gleaning more information off of
reading what your utilities are doing versus selling
the product themselves.
This to me is called Smartgate, and as
soon as I find a really good person that will take this
on, because I can't run a computer, and Mr. John
Kurczewski can, and all this is health effects. All
right. Right now as of 5/24/16, which I'm going to
head Cheboygan first because they just passed it,
resolutions passed against smart meters or in support
of HB 4916 for a choice for analog bills or analogs
which your company, your MPSC said these rules are
intended to promote safe and adequate service, which
they don't. It's extortion. It's heavy handedness.
It's terrorism.
These are the counties that have
changed. There's 41 one of them. There is Presque
Isle Republican Party. Oak Park. Livonia.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Wait, can you please
show down. Our court reporter can't type that fast.
MS. LIDDY: I'm sorry. I'm so upset.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you.
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MS. LIDDY: Shelby Township. Macomb
County. City of Warren. Van Buren Township. City of
Southfield. Rochester. Ypsilanti. Brighton.
Rochester Hills. Oakland County. Brighton. Troy.
Sterling Heights. Vassar. Farmington Hills. Royal
Oak. Allegan County. Harrison Township. Village of
Reese. Grosse Pointe Woods. City of Caro. Almont.
Fairgrove. Dearborn Heights. Vassar. Romulus.
Clinton County Republican Party. Gratiot County
Republican Party. City of Allen Park. City of Taylor.
City of Lincoln Park. Charter Township of West
Bloomfield. Oakland County Republican Party. Grosse
Pointe Farms. Columbiaville. Lapeer County. City of
Brown City. Marathon Township. More are being passed
as citizens awareness is growing. And I'm adding
Cheboygen, thanks to Mr. John Kurczewski who has put
more effort into these efforts, which I know I'm going
to find a journalist and he's going to ask the: Who,
why, when, what the heck's going on?
This newspaper, which your Mr. McKee,
Oscoda Herald Times, Lucern Fire Chief Narrowly Loses
Home, Blames Meter. This is the picture of his meter.
Is Mr. McKee going to question a fire chief?
This is extortion. This is
heavy-handedness. This is terrorism. My mother is
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sick. I am sick. I can't work on a computer. I'm
also just as sick as the rest of these people and I
don't understand: When is enough? How much money is
enough? I just want to pay my bills and be safe. I
just want to be okay and so do all of these other
people, they just want to be okay. There's no reason
to be sick. It makes rashes, holes in your skin. The
end result, death. I can only hope that these
20 percent of these CEOs feel the effects of the same
thing that's going on here because it's in your future.
We're trying to help you.
Thank you very much.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Ms. Liddy.
Richard Meltzer.
Good morning.
MR. MELTZER: Good morning, your Honor.
Can I be heard in the back?
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Can you hear
Mr. Meltzer in the back?
MR. MELTZER: Can you hear me in the
back?
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Yes, now you can be
heard. Thank you.
MR. MELTZER: Thank you. I'm here today
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to comment on the proposed new MPSC rules defining
customer standards and billing practices. I'm going to
kind of touch on three key areas: Utility egregious
behavior, omissions in the rules, and rules that need
clarification.
And starting with the egregious
behavior, I'll tell my little story. DTE put me on a
smart meter deferred list several years ago but then
immediately tried to switch my meter the very next day.
That caused me to lock up my meter. DTE said doing
that was a hazard and repeatedly threatened to cut my
power.
So ultimately, by and by, many months
later, ultimately I made an appointment with the AMI
office for a meter swap. I wanted to be there so I
could remove the locking mechanism and keep an eye on
the installation. DTE did not respect my appointment
date. They changed out my meter when I was out of the
state, and my property suffered damage in their
forcible removal of the locking mechanism. And they
confiscated my locks and hardware though the AMI
manager denied that happened.
The kicker to this is they installed a
heavy-duty locking bolt on the meter housing box after
they swapped the meter. This in spite of saying
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repeatedly that a locked meter box is a safety hazard
and using that as a justification for threating to cut
the power.
And this is why Rule 460.137 is
completely inadequate. That would grant DTE the
ability to terminate service immediately since they've
described my locked meter as a hazard. That condition
is so hazardous that they themselves placed a
heavy-duty lock on the housing thereafter.
I checked with my fire department and
they said they did not have a key. So much for the
fire hazard.
This is the manner in which this
monopolistic bully operates.
My story frankly is trivial compared to
some of which you've heard and probably others that
will follow. But again, this kind of, the key word
that always comes to mind in the operation of these
utilities is arrogance. They know they've got you and
they sometimes say with disdain you don't have to take
electricity, that's a free choice. Being realistic in
today's world, one can get by without it, make
alternative arrangements but it's not easy, and for
most people it's probably out of the question.
Now moving on to some omissions, for
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example, number one: So what consequence does DTE
suffer for its egregious behaviors? I scanned the new
rules for the word fine. It came up only once and
without any detail. Similarly, I scanned for the word
penalty; I got back nothing for penalties for customers
who don't pay their bills.
MPSC rules need to assess sufficiently
severe penalties to curtail arbitrary and abusive
behavior on the part of the utility companies.
Another omission, Rule 460.130 regarding
shutoff protection. It only applies to critical care
customers who are delinquent with their bill paying.
No provision exists for customers trying to protect
themselves from the ill effects of radio frequency
radiation, or RFR, as are emitted by AMI smart meters.
Even now, that electro-hypersensitivity or EHS is
recognized as a genuine medical condition and included
in the Americans With Disabilities Act.
Here I ask the MPSC to take special note
of the new major National Institutes of Health study
that demonstrated cancer in laboratory animals exposed
to levels of RFR currently considered safe. The NIH is
the country's Gold standard for research.
Dr. Carpenter, who's name you've heard
several times this morning, described the study as a
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game changer, making it hard for naysayers to deny the
effects of RFR any longer.
Some people choose to buy organic food,
drink filtered water, take daily supplements, et
cetera, but their efforts are for naught when mandated
to live in an RFR emitting environment.
For those EHS people, Rule 140.137,
Section (i) that permits termination of power for not
allowing replacement of equipment, or removal of a
meter, is an extreme usurpation of one's liberty and
should not be allowed.
The only remedy in this case is to
exempt customers from their requirement of accepting an
AMI smart meter as a condition of service.
And three, this segues into another
omission. There is no mention in the rules regarding
the current opt-out program, nor any requirement that
customers be provided information regarding the health
and privacy controversies surrounding the AMI meters.
And I will also add that you will find
no reference to this at the MPSC website.
Now regarding privacy omissions, number
one, the utility should only collect the minimum data
required to calculate a customer's bill and perform
basis business functions and no more. With the coming
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of the Internet of things or IOT, every electrical
device large and small will generate data. When
captured by the AMI smart meter, a personal dossier of
every resident's behavior and schedule will be created.
This would be an infringement on our privacy.
Number two, I have some concern with the
lack of detail describing the granularity of the phrase
aggregate data regarding privacy. MIT studies have
shown that data made anonymous can still be attributed
back to an individual with a 90 percent accuracy.
Similar concern for the phrase
third-party, what if a subsidiary of DTE chooses to do
data mining and monetize this valuable data asset; is
that subsidiary a third party?
Four, rates should be completely
independent of these data assets. No rate incentive
nor any penalty, should be offered to leverage a
consumer's approval to share their data.
Now in terms of clarification, a key
area of confusion in the rules has to do with meter
reading. Rule 460.114 says in part that customer's can
self-report their energy usage. But the rule also
requires the utility obtain an actual reading at least
once a year. And then it says the utility company
representative may read meters on a regular basis. The
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contention here relates to the opt-out program wherein
DTE charges for a monthly meter reading.
It should be obvious that there is no
point in a customer reporting a reading if DTE
duplicates that effort and charges for it. Why is DTE
allowed to render the customer's option as meaningless?
Why can't an opt-out customer exercise its prerogative
of self-report within the opt-out program? Fix this
please.
I will also point out that in several
cases before the MPSC, Mr. Robert Sitkauskus, the
deployment AMI manager, testified that there was in
fact no functional difference between the old legacy
analog meter and a smart meter with the broadcast
feature disabled. He never provided a good explanation
as to why then would a customer be forced to accept the
smart meter.
Moving on, Rule 460.155 regarding
disputes, very brief criteria provided for the hearing
officer. Bios and qualifications of officers should be
available to confirm their competence and impartiality.
Rule 460.157 regarding customer hearing
procedures, Section (4) says, quote, "The utility has
the burden of proof by a preponderance of the
evidence," unquote. This rule needs substantive
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criteria, otherwise it will be arbitrarily interpreted.
Rule 460.162, customer hearing appeal
procedures, Section (2) says, "The regulation officer
shall not be required to receive or consider any
additional evidence or information." I find this rule
to be an affront to justice that should be eliminated,
though in reality the officer could listen to new
evidence and then ignore it, like that never happens.
Section (3) says, quote, "In all
customer hearing appeals, the utility has the burden of
proof, again by the preponderance of the evidence," and
again, this rule too needs substantive criteria,
otherwise it will be arbitrarily interpreted.
And in conclusion, we need an MPSC that
fulfills its mission and aggressively protects the
public's interests. Rules need to conform to the needs
of this state's citizens, not the dictates of large
utility companies who are not being held sufficiently
accountable.
In the matter of AMI smart meters, we
have laws, namely the Michigan Consumer Protection Act
and the U.S. Energy Act of 2005, among others that
state a smart meter is to only be accepted when
requested by a customer. MPSC rules need to
incorporate these requirements and respect the
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preferences of citizens of this state.
And thank you very much for your time
and attention.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Mr. Meltzer.
(Brief recess taken.)
JUDGE SONNEBORN: We are back on
the record continuing our public hearing in Case
No. U-18120 and we will proceed with Mr. John Diehl.
MR. DIEHL: Thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Good morning.
MR. DIEHL: My name is John Diehl. I'm
from East Lansing, Michigan. And I do hope that Curtis
Hartell and Sam Singh, my state representative, do have
a chance to peruse the comments that were made today.
I going to talk a little bit, then I'm
going to read a little bit, but I won't be too long
here.
I just want to cover one basic area. In
reference to the meter boxes on our homes, and there's
legislation in this packet here, let me say beforehand
it seems to me that within this legislation there's a
lot of barriers that are set up for the residents of
Michigan to protect them from the power companies doing
things that they shouldn't be doing. It seems that
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this legislation will change those barriers, knock them
down, and allow the power companies to have much more
access and freedom to do what they want to do and
protection will be taken away from us. I'm sensing
that as I read through this and hear what's being said.
One thing I'll mention, we all have
metal boxes around our meters on our homes and
businesses, and those actual boxes, not the meter
itself, but the boxes are ours. When I bought my house
I paid for that box. And if I choose to lock it up to
keep people from tampering with my meter, or to keep
people from messing with it and so forth, then as far
as I understand that's my right. And it, it seems that
it, this legislation may make that illegal to protect
and lock up the metal box that surrounds my meter.
Now also I want to say that the power
companies can for a variety of reasons come on our
property and access our meter without notifying how
owners or businesses, notify owners of businesses. In
other words, it seems like the legislation in this
would change that and there would be a number of health
and safety issues stated, maybe of a huge variety of
those that would just allow power companies to come on
to a person's property or a home or a business and
change and, you know, have access to the meter, let me
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just say it that way, without notifying the individual
that owns the company or the home.
Let me just read this here what I wrote
down: Areas of health and safety designated in this
bill to allow meter access need to be consistent with a
high percentage of health and safety problems that have
been occurring in homes throughout Michigan, not
reasons that make no sense with the current history of
analog meters. And there should be no access without
homeowner consent. And as far as I understand, that
has never been a major problem in Michigan with analog
meters that there was a health and safety issue that
has to be attended to, that's not a major problem.
You know, so it seems like this bill
might change that and just line up a variety of reasons
for any power to come onto your property even without
consent and that should not happen.
Also, we citizens of Michigan must have
the right to see the final legislation and have say
again with reference to what are the health and safety
reasons a power company would want to, you know, access
our home or business and the meter area and so forth.
Now just to conclude, my concern is that
the power companies will create a wide variety of
reasons that make no sense to access my meter without
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notifying me.
Now one last comment, the, there's been
a lot of talk here, this is about smart meters and so
forth and I totally agree with what everybody says, it
again, it does seem like the power companies this
legislation would give more access for the power
companies to come on your property without consent and
do what they want to do to put smart meters in, but
what about the protection for the disabled? What about
protection for the elderly?
I have a son living in my residence
who's mentally and physically disabled. He does not
have, he does talk. He would not be able to tell us if
a smart meter -- I do not want it in my home, but if
so, he will not be able to indicate that me. He's not
going to indicate if he's having problems. How are we
going to protect the disabled and those that are in
this state that are handicapped or disabled and are in
center based schools because they're so disabled. How
are we going to protect them, you know, from this type
of problem?
So again, my concern in this bill is
that this legislation will, you know, just open up much
more free access to the power companies to do what they
want to do without consenting with the homeowners or
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business owners. So we do need have the ability to see
what is finalized in this bill and to begin and be able
to have maybe more further comment on that rather than
having it just, you know, finished without our look-see
and then put through.
Thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Mr. Diehl.
MR. KURCZEWSKI: Excuse me for just a
minute. This is Mrs. Chimner who we have to take out
and wanted me to provide doctors letters.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you.
David Lonier; have I pronounced that
correctly?
Good morning.
MR. LONIER: Good morning. David
Lonier. I live in Auburn Hills, Oakland County with my
wife, and roughly a year ago about this time we had our
power cut because we denied DTE access to our property
for purpose of installing a unsafe surveillance device
on our home. We absolutely refused to have it on our
home.
We're now on our third generator.
Generators do not last, they're not designed to last if
you're running 24 hours for a year. So as a result
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you'll pay a lot of money for a generator, you're going
to have to replace them. So anyway, we are now on our
third generator.
I don't see where the customers will
benefit from the proposed rule changes. The dilemma we
now face is caused by the utility customer having
little, if any, choice between suppliers, the supplier
having little incentive to accommodate customer.
Products, service, quality, and cost are now totally
controlled by the supplier.
A major concern of utility customers is
the threat of losing service for choosing not to have a
smart meter replace their analog meter.
The reasons that customers don't want
smart meters are well documented and well-known to
anyone who cares to research the subject.
A temporary fix would be to allow the
customers who have analog meters for any reason and at
no additional cost for doing so. I recommend adding
these words to the MPSC rules; quote, "Utility
customers shall have the choice of either a traditional
metal and glass electro-mechanical analog meter or a
plastic advanced AMI digital or opt-out meter at no
additional cost," unquote.
This, however is only a temporary fix.
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The real solution would be to have government invoke
antitrust laws to ensure that customers wield as much
control over the energy market as the suppliers. This
has historically proven to be the best road to peace
and prosperity for all parties.
In the field of energy, an open market
would not only balance the market between buyer and
seller, but it would also allow currently suppressed
technology to flourish and challenge the hundred year
old technology that has survived as long as it has due
to suppression of literally thousands of energy
innovations that we should and be -- should be
encouraging to compete.
It is my hope that the Commission will
take these recommendations into very serious
consideration.
Thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Mr. Lonier.
David Sheldon.
Good morning.
MR. SHELDON: Good morning. David
Sheldon, and I'm here, first of all, to say that a
couple of us who are in this room, Mr. Meltzer and I,
were interveners in a general rate case that DTE had a
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year ago, and in connection with that case we brought
in Dr. David Carpenter who's been alluded to several
times today.
And Dr. Carpenter made the, made the
point as part of his testimony under oath which is
subject of course to cross-examination, he made the
point that not only the RF from the smart meters but
the dirty electricity that's caused by any type of
electronic meter, the so-called opt-out meters, the
digital meters that Consumer's are offering, the
opt-out meter that DTE is offering, all of these are
electronic contained switch-mode power supplies and do
generate what's called dirty electricity.
This phenomena is well-documented. It
involves putting frequencies on the home wiring which
in turn generate magnetic fields throughout the home.
Dr. Carpenter has supported that point. At the end of
the case his testimony was totally ignored.
Now that was about a year ago, along
about July of 2015. On August 31st of 2015 DTE came to
the house that I share with my fiance in Oak Park and
they cut our power at the pole. They did this they
said because we had a padlock on the meter housing. We
had the original analog meters that DTE itself had
installed years earlier, and we put padlocks on them to
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prevent them from installing smart meters. And they
declared that to be a, quote, "hazardous condition",
unquote, and on that basis they cut our power without
giving us a ten-day notice or apparently any appeal
procedure.
We were cut-off. We've been without
power now for over a year, and we had to invest in
getting a generator and getting a battery bank for
energy storage for the night hours. We had a rough
winter last winter because we had to, first we had only
a gasoline generator and the city wouldn't let us run
it after 7:00 at night so we had no heat through most
of last winter.
Finally we got a natural gas-powered
generator and batteries and we were able to function
more smoothly. But it was at enormous cost. And
nobody should have to go through that. And many of the
people in this room because of the type of
neighborhoods they're in and whatnot or financial
limitations are not going to be able do what we did,
they're not going to be able to put the generator in
and battery banks. The noise problems alone would
preclude it in many neighborhoods.
We think, I think it is the
responsibility of this Commission to protect all
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utility customers, and not simply the majority of them
who seem not to be objecting to the smart meters. We
believe there are thousands of customers now who have
issues with or are completely, considered completely
unacceptable the alternatives that Consumer's and DTE
are putting forth them. They attempt to defend
themselves by padlocking the meter housing. It's the
only way to prevent smart meter installation. The
utility companies will not abide by any requests, the
signs or anything else. The only thing that stops them
is a padlock on the meter housing.
They are now abusing the definition of
the word hazardous and using that as an excuse to
summarily disconnect power without notice or warning
and apparently without any appeal procedure. We think
that's wrong. It's a denial of due process.
So in part I'm here today to argue that
there's -- a definition should be added to these rules,
and that definition would be of the term hazardous
condition. Now truly there are hazardous conditions
that would justify a meter disconnect. If somebody's
done something that's going to electrocute somebody
that touches the meter box, or it's going to cause
overheating which could cause a fire or short circuit
the whole neighborhood, these are hazardous conditions,
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no question, and they should be disconnected
immediately. There can be recourse and hearings after
the fact but the disconnect should be immediate.
So there's a reason for such a rule but
it needs to be hemmed in with a proper definition of
the word hazardous. Hazardous does not mean whatever
DTE or Consumer's chooses to call it. They are abusing
the definition. What they're saying is nonsense.
There's nothing hazardous about a padlock on a meter
housing. The utilities have in fact tolerated that for
decades. Now all of a sudden it's a hazardous
condition.
The other thing I wanted to say is that
what we're hearing from so many today is not just
peoples' notions or prejudices based on misinformation
on the Internet; far from that. The causes of the
illness that people are complaining about are
well-documented. The majority of published peer review
research by scientists and medical people who are not
in the employ of the utilities and not an employee of
the US Department of Energy, which is the cheerleader
for this whole smart meter, the independent
researchers, the vast majority of them are saying that
this is a problem, that there is at the minimum a
certain minority of the population, perhaps as many as
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5 percent, who will be immediately injured by the
installation of these types of devices. And there is
also of course the canary in the coalmine business, you
know. If it's 2 percent, even if it's only 1 percent
of the population that gets immediate symptoms. If 1
or 2 percent of us are getting the symptoms right away,
what does that mean about the rest of us 15 years from
now, 20 years from now? We have to endure this stuff.
Maybe the symptoms won't happen until years later and
then it will be too late, just as with cigarette
smoking.
So the other thing is the surveillance
aspect of this federal agency, NIST, National Institute
for Science and Technology, or Standards and
Technology, which is part of the federal government has
said these are surveillance devices and that peoples'
rights to refuse them should be honored. They've said
all that.
Now when some of our, the people, some
of my fellow activists have written letters to Attorney
General Bill Schuette about this because Michigan has a
statute, a surveillance statute, and the statute says
that any person who installs a device that is designed
to listen to or monitor activities within the home
without the knowledge and consent of the homeowner has
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committed a felony. And the first offense for that is
one year in prison, and a second offense can be up to
five years in prison for this felony.
Now some of us have written to Bill
Schuette and said why aren't you enforcing this law,
it's on the books? Clearly this is a surveillance
device, clearly DTE is installing it without consent,
and the answer we get back from our Attorney General
is, first of all, he says it's not a surveillance
devise. Secondly, he says, well, even if it is a
surveillance device you consent to it when you sign up
for electric service.
I'm sorry I did not consent. We do not
consent to this. And I think the Attorney General's
answer is nonsense, and that it's time we started
enforcing the law in Michigan and it's time that this
Commission started protecting all of the utility
customers.
Thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Mr. Sheldon.
Jay Bovers [sic].
MR. BOWERS: Sorry, your Honor. I have
a little visual aide here for you, and for everybody
else here.
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Folks, this is a burned out smart meter.
Muskegon Heights. And I have a couple more visual aids
I'll show you in just a moment.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you. Okay.
Good morning.
MR. BOWERS: Good morning. Thank you
for letting me talk, your Honor. I appreciate this
very much.
My name is Jay Bowers by the way.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you.
MR. BOWERS: And I live in Spring Lake.
I became aware of a troubling event when I was asked to
download a photograph for an investigative reporter of
a woman named Theresa Doza. As the regulatory agency
here, what I'm about to tell you probably doesn't exist
to them and as the public utility will probably tell
you, it simply did not happen.
Well, Theresa Doza's story is an example
I think of six major problems that these new rules
don't address or may have created actually.
Here's a picture of Theresa. I don't
know if you can see it but take a good look at it if
you will. She's really a dear person. And in November
of 2013 her house, the one she's lived in since she was
born 88 years ago, the only one she's ever known burned
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down because of a smart meter, the one you're looking
at right here.
Now that's not my opinion, that's the
opinion of the Muskegon Heights Fire Department.
There's the burnt meter. And attached, if anyone is
interested, is the report of that burned out smart
meter. If anybody would like to look at it I'll be
happy to show it to you and I'll give one to the court
reporter as well.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you.
MR. BOWERS: Apparently the Muskegon
Heights Fire Department did not get the memo, or rather
the flat verbal statement from Consumer's securities
investigators to Theresa about her fire that smart
meters don't cause fires.
I understand this isn't the first time
Theresa's story has been told. However, on each
occasion, including the investigator I just mentioned,
when she's asked for Consumer's written report on her
fire she's been rebuffed or promised and then ignored.
And yes, she was heard by the right
people. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Patrick Hudson of
the MPSC, Smart Grid Section, heard her plea on
December 2nd, 2014, at the House Oversight Hearing.
Dennis McKee, Consumer's Smart Meter spokesman promised
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her the report.
When ignored, Theresa was beside
herself. She contacted an attorney who said you
haven't got enough money to fight Consumer's.
The six major problems I see with this
are these: First of all, does Consumer's make reports
on these safety matters? Does one exist for Theresa's
fire?
Are poor people disadvantaged or
discriminated here? That's No. 2.
No. 3: Should Rule 460.103, which talks
about non-discrimination or penalizing customers for
exercising any right granted by these rules, be dropped
or deleted from these new rules. And that's what
they're proposing, to drop that rule.
No. 4: Does Theresa deserve to know her
rights and a contact point as a utility customer?
Should there be a leaflet given to her for disputes,
and at all customers contacts?
No. 5: Does anyone know how many smart
meter related disconnects there are? How many melted
meter bases there are? How many other unknown wiring
errors or actual smart meter fires? Should there be a
separate line item in the quarterly report for these
items?
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And lastly, and there's probably a lot
more, but No. 6: Should there be a receipt and later a
written report when a field contact with a customer
occurs?
Shouldn't all of these be considered for
inclusion in the proposed amended rules in order to
adopt fair terms and conditions for Michigan's utility
customers? That last sentence I think you'll recognize
is part of their mission statement.
And dear Theresa, she's living in public
housing now. She's poor. She didn't have insurance on
her home but hopes Consumer's will pay for the damage
and still believes one day she'll be able to move back
to that house where she was born. Question is: Will
she?
Thank you very much.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Mr. Bowers.
MR. BOWERS: Oh, excuse me, I have one
last thing. I just picked up this paper today and it
was referenced once before by someone else but there is
something on the back page that I don't think was
referenced. This where the Fire Chief's home was lost,
because of a smart meter fire.
And at the end, Mr. McKee, who I
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referenced earlier from the MPSC -- no, he's with
Consumer's I believe, he's the PR person for them --
no, I take it back, MPSC; in any case, Mr. McKee says:
The component failure was a loose connection, and it
really didn't have anything to do with the smart meter
itself. I believe there's some evidence to the
contrary and I will present that with my written
remarks after this statement.
So thank you for indulging me a little
longer.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Yes, thank you very
much.
The next individual listed is Lori,
and I've having difficulty reading her last name. It
starts with an E.
MS. EBAUGH: Ebaugh.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Ebaugh; could you
spell that please when you approach the microphone.
MS. EBAUGH: Sure.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Good afternoon.
MS. EBAUGH: Thank you. Good afternoon.
It's Lori Ebaugh, that's spelled E, b like boy,
-a-u-g-h, and I'm from Milford.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you.
MS. EBAUGH: Before I address the rules
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that I want to address I want to say that I too am
electro-magnetically sensitive and found out --
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Speak a little bit
louder, please.
MS. EBAUGH: Okay. Before I address the
rules that I wanted to address in the document that
we're here for, I also wanted to mention that I too am
electro-magnetically sensitive, and found out about it
in the way that many of the people here did. After
three months of trying to find out what was wrong with
me, I had heart palpitations and insomnia, my doctors
could find nothing wrong with me. I went through three
different doctors, multiple tests, couldn't find out
anything about smart meters. Then I went back and
traced when my malady had started, and sure enough it
started as soon as my smart meter had been installed.
So because I didn't know better I got
the opt-out meter. I already had the smart meter on my
house unfortunately, so the only option that I had was
this opt-out meter which has the dirty electricity.
Today I have to turn my power off in my bedroom at
night and I also sleep under a Faraday cage netting.
It blocks the radiation because I live in a
neighborhood and I'm surrounded by other peoples' smart
meter transmissions as well, so I have to do that.
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But back to what I'm here to speak
about. I'm here to speak particularly about two rules.
The first one is Rule 137, part I that says that:
Services can be, denial of services can be allowed if a
customer refuses to arrange access at reasonable times
for the purpose of inspection meter reading,
maintenance, or replacement of equipment that is
installed upon the premises or for the removal of the
meter. Of course we're objecting to that particular
rule.
And then Rule 130, parts (2) and (3) say
that the utility can restrict the time periods where
shutoff is, is postponed for a period of two months in
Rule 2, part (2) or -- and that's for one person, or
for no more than 126 days per household for anyone on a
12-month period.
And I wanted to bring up the fact that
this is becoming recognized as a medical disability,
electro-magnetic frequency disorder or EFDS
electro-magnetic sensitivity. So the American With
Disabilities Act, their accessibility guidelines for
Building Facilities, Recreation Facilities, which was
published in September of 2002 states, quote, "The
Board recognizes that multiple chemical sensitivities
and electro-magnetic sensitivities may be considered
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disabilities under the ADA, if they so severely impair
the neurological, respiratory, or other functions of an
individual that it substantially limits one or more of
the individual's major life activities." Those
activities includes sleep.
On September 1st, 2015, a federal
district court in Florida ruled on an ADA claim based
on the allegations that an individual was experiencing
insomnia, ear ringing, difficulty concentrating as a
result of the attachment of a digital meter to his
house. That was in 2015, last year. The court said
that because these symptoms substantially limited the
major life activities and derived from, quote, "some
sort of physical or mental impairment," unquote, it
could reasonably infer that the plaintiff had a
disability.
So what we're talking about a
disability. We're talking about electro-magnetic
sensitivity, a disability that is recognized by the ADA
at least in their guidelines for building facilities.
It should be recognized by the MPSC as well, and so I
ask that a provision, a rule would be inserted to these
rules that would postpone shutoff indefinitely for any
customer that has that documented medical condition and
medical diagnosis of electro-magnetic sensitivity and
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that for those like me who didn't know to keep their
analog meter than an optional rule would be put in
place that we would be allowed to receive a new analog
meter and get rid of the electronic meter that we are
currently being forced to opt-out to.
Thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Ms. Ebaugh.
We are now into the lunch hour. We have
approximately 15 more individuals who wish to be heard
today; however, I don't want to deprive any audience
members from getting nourishment, because I anticipate
that it will be probably be another hour, hour
and-a-half. So would you all prefer that we take a
break now for lunch and reconvene at 1:00? Otherwise I
am willing to continue.
THE AUDIENCE: Continue.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: All right, we'll
recontinue, and if we need to take a short break I'm
happy to do.
THE AUDIENCE: Thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: You're welcome.
John Juno.
Lola Killey.
Good afternoon.
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MS. KILLEY: Good afternoon. Thank you,
your Honor, for this opportunity.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Yes.
MS. KILLEY: Thank you. My name is Lola
Killey and I'm from Ann Arbor and I have some things
written down, and then some other things as well.
So several sections of this case concern
me because they seem too broad in their description of
a situation that could lead to harming the consumer or
having the consumer's power shutoff.
Regarding harming the consumer, I'm
implying than the utility would be given permission to
install an AMI meter or smart meter close to the
consumer's home or near the home.
Smart meters use wireless technology
that make people very sick, so sick to the point where
they're unable to live in their homes, as we have of
course heard.
They also pose serious privacy concerns
and national security issues. There's a House Bill,
4916, that is currently in the Energy Committee that
would allow people to choose to keep or to use an
analog meter. Analog meters have never made anyone
sick, nor compromised anyone individual's privacy or
our national security. However, this bill has not been
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passed so consumers do not have a choice to use an
analog meter. Therefore, some of the rules in Case
U-18120 would give the utilities permission to install
a smart meter because there isn't a provision in our
laws to keep or reinstall an analog meter that was
replaced by a smart meter.
Here are some of the specific points.
In Part 4, there's, in Rule 46013 --
113, where we have, it says: If the meter reader's
safety is at risk, the utility shall notify the
customer of all the following information, and in
Part (3) it says, a utility may install remote meter,
an actual meter reading device, or other similar device
that provides the utility with an actual meter reading.
I believe this leaves open a possibility that the
utility could come in and put in smart meter based on
at risk, which is not defined.
Another part of that same section says
if meter reading equipment failure occurs, the utility
shall make all reasonable efforts to replace or repair
equipment so that not more than two estimate bills are
used. Again, this leaves the door open for the utility
to bring in and install a smart meter.
In Part (8) there's, it talks about
shutoff without notice, and the part was 137: Without
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notice, if a condition on the consumer's premises is
determined by the utility or governmental agency to be
hazardous; again, that, this is very disturbing because
there is no definition what hazardous means. So
insisting on having, as we have heard exactly what
happened, insisting on having an analog meter on one's
home could be considered hazardous.
Continuing there, without notice, if a
consumer uses equipment in a manner that adversely
affects the utility's equipment or the utility's
service to others, shutoff; again, very broad language
that could force a consumer to have a smart meter on
her home rather than an analog meter.
Continuing, E, in the part Rule 37.1.g:
The customer has engaged in unauthorized use of utility
service; again, that permits for shutoff. This is very
broad language and could be used if to say that using
an analog meter is unauthorized and so shutoff can be
permitted.
And the Part (i) where it says the
customer has refused to, and it goes on to say to
arrange for access at reasonable times, again
reasonable times are not defined, for the purpose of
inspection, meter reading, maintenance, or replacement
of equipment that is installed upon the premises or for
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the removal of meter; shutoff. Again, this broad
sweeping language and text keeps the customer
continuously vulnerable and susceptible to whimsical
or, you know, decisions about what kind of meter might
be on their home.
Then we have, continuing here, if the
customer has violated any rulings of the utility, and
it goes on to say or the integrity of the utility
system; shutoff. Okay. So we don't even have a
definition of what is the utility, the utility system.
Would integrity mean data integrity? So then we say
that if data collected on a postcard by an analog meter
wouldn't have integrity? Again, this very broad text
and this broad language allows in very many parts of
this ruling to have utility's permission to go in and
put in smart meters.
So each of these sections above there
needs to be text that is much more specific in defining
the circumstances, and additionally there needs to be
text that protects the consumer who wants to use an
analog meter.
So I urge the Commission to request more
specific language regarding these sections, and include
exemptions and exceptions for consumers who are using
and want to use an analog meter.
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So that was my written commentary. And
I do have a little bit of a personal story as well. I
have an opt-out meter so I arranged with DTE to turn
off my radio on my smart meter. And when that happened
I didn't feel any different effect. Well, that's
because my neighbor's smart meter is 10 feet away from
mine. And so I've had insomnia issues and heart
palpitations, but I never considered -- I've never
called myself electro-magnetic sensitive. I'm a normal
person. I'm extremely healthy. I swim butterfly, 100
meter butterfly. I'm, you know, very healthy. And for
me to have heart palpitations is insane.
So just recently, I learned that I
should turn off -- because of the dirty electricity in
my house, I thought, okay, I'm going turn off the
circuit breaker to my bedroom. Well, I did that and my
insomnia went away and my heart palpitations have gone
away.
So this, the opt-out meter solution
isn't a health solution for people and I think you've
heard that many times and I just wanted to add to the
volume of experience that has been brought to you
today.
But I also wanted to say a couple of
other things again in terms of this, this, Jeremy
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Johnson has a TED Talk. And he was a silicone valley
engineer and he got sick from his smart meter. I won't
go into the whole thing but he said this the new air
pollution, this is air pollution, and what we need do
is to treat it as such.
And the state of California has brought
this to the attention not just of the power utilities
but also of the telecommunications. And they have an
opt-out for their WiFi Comcast boxes. Every Comcast
box now, cable box, comes with four WiFi radios, two
for public, and two for private.
And I live in a neighborhood, I live
behind an apartment complex, and my husband determined
that there are 48 WiFi networks that we could pick up
in our living room. And so we are opting out in our
Comcast box to get our WiFi out of there.
But I just wanted to say that this, this
is, it's not just the utility companies. I'm sorry,
I'm getting a little off-track here, but it's about air
pollution. Everybody is getting affected. And so it
would be wrong to consider that people who are the
canaries in the cage are strange outliers. We're all
breathing the same air. We're all getting radiated.
And so I just wanted you to know that in
the United Nations the smart meters are considered to
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be Class 1I carcinogenic and many foreign countries are
not allowing smart meters to be used in their countries
because they're carcinogenic.
And I want you to know that again in
this other issue that hasn't been addressed too much in
terms of privacy and security, just this morning
driving into Lansing on the radio, WJR, it was reported
that Yahoo got hacked. So Yahoo, one of the most
advanced technological cloud companies in the world got
hacked and peoples' passwords and birth dates were
taken.
So the idea that, that we cannot have
the safe analog to protect ourself, our privacy
including our national security to some extent because
if the hackers get into the data banks that the utility
companies are keeping, guess what they know? They know
everybody's location, if they're home or not, if
they're using power, where all the power stations,
where are the data collection sites, they're just going
to know everything.
So I just want to know that today there
was a hyper focus on the health issues and that's,
that's really important because people are dying,
people are getting sick. I have a brother-in-law --
the reason I'm involved in this, I'm not sick, but my
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brother-in-law has lived in Oregon. He's had EMS
sensitivity and sickness for eight years. He has to
leave the state of Oregon now and move to Florida
because of the way the power companies are doing their
data collection and how often, how many thousands of
times in an hour they're collecting data. He's moving
to Florida now. He's extremely ill. And he's living
like a refugee. He's been sleeping in his truck for
every night for two years. He sleeps in his truck to
try and find a safe place.
But anyway, I just want you to please
understand that even if we just had the analog choice
bill, if we could choose to have an analog meter, these
issues evaporate. They evaporate. These issues only
came about because of smart meters.
And the loopholes or the doors that are
open in the current rule, in the current case, leave
way too much liberty for the power utilities to decide
what they want to do, and it's just, it's just wrong.
And California is ahead of us. They're ahead of us.
They have rule regulations for smart meters and they're
getting rule regulations for Comcast boxes. So they're
ahead of us, so we should be looking to them and
understanding that this is real.
Thank you very much for your time.
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JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Ms. Killey.
John Tatar.
MR. TATAR: You might want to look at
that later.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you.
Good afternoon.
MR. TATAR: Good afternoon. I was going
say morning, I was just about to ask that question
because I don't have a watch.
My name is John Tatar and I live in
Farmington Hills. First of all, I want everyone to
remember that America's form of government is a
republic, not a democracy. And as republic, we are
guaranteed under Article 4, Section 4 of the United
States Constitution. And in a republic, the people are
in charge. And we delegate to governments certain
authorities to handle issues for us. These governments
are instituted among men deriving their just power from
the consent of the government to protect our life, our
liberty, and our property, as addressed in the
Declaration of Independence.
With that said, all of you that are
public servants are in law public functionaries,
according to Norton versus Shelby County, the document
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I just handed to the two of you, with a sole purpose of
protecting the people against the intrusion of
chartered corporations such as DTE who were granted the
sole function to provide electrical service to the
people in Michigan.
All public functionaries swear an oath
to office, Article XI, Section 1 of the -- as stated in
the Michigan Constitution, to uphold the Constitution
of the United States, the Constitution of the State of
Michigan, and Michigan Compiled Laws.
All public functionaries must be de jure
officers occupying a de jure office, according to
Norton. And Norton sets the standards for all public
functionaries. If you look at Michigan Constitution
Article IV, Section 51, it states: The public health
and general welfare of the people of the state are
hereby declared to be a matter of prime public concern.
The legislature shall pass suitable laws for the
protection and promotion of public health.
Michigan Law 256 in 2013 and the
Michigan Penal Code 328 of 1931 defines an unlawful of
purpose of frightening -- well, including but not
limited to frightening, terrorizing, intimidating,
threatening, harassing, injuring or killing any person,
damage or destroying any real property or personal
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property without permission of the property owner.
Harmful electronic or magnetic devices means a device
designed to emanate or radiate or that is as a result
it is designed to emanate or radiate an electronic or
electro-magnetic pulse currently -- current beam signal
or microwave that is intended to cause harm to others.
We know the harmful effects of RF
radiation on the human body. RF radiation is
accumulative. For some citizens there is an immediate
physical affect. If it is a fact all of us that live
in this RF environment are being affected, we will all
be affected at sometime. Therefore, it is necessary
for everyone to who involved to know the ramifications
of RF radiations and take precautionary measures
necessary. It is a usurpation of DTE's charter to
force upon the citizens a metering program for the
benefit of DTE without knowing the long-term affects of
this program on our health, safety, and privacy.
We also know the fact that DTE, as well
as other utility companies, have been granted major
monies from the federal government to deploy these
smart meter without regards to the concerns of the
citizens.
We also know the fact that DTE will be
gathering information: For what purpose?
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We also know that the opt-out program
that DTE is forcing upon the people is a violation of
the MPSC ruling of U-17087. That's the June 28, 2013,
reading -- or ruling.
On Page 6 of that ruling, it allows
Consumer customers to charge proposed fees in order to
allow customers to retain their existing
electromechanical meters to maintain a metering
inventory, distinct testing policies, and billing
platforms for actual monthly meter readings. That's
out of your document.
DTE Energy states that this ruling only
applies to Consumer Energy. Though DTE claims that
they do not maintain a meter inventory, they, however,
believe they have the right to charge the tariff-based
fees as presented in the U-17087. This is doublespeak
and a usurpation of delegated authorities by DTE, and a
total disregard of the MPSC ruling.
We also know the order of the
Court of Appeals of the State of Michigan, Judge Peter
O'Connell states, I also -- I am also greatly concerned
that the opt-out costs are actually a penalty imposed
to force the opt-outer's to comply with the AMI
program. On remand, the PCS is charged with the task
of determining if these new costs are a penalty, a tax,
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or a legitimate fee.
And second, he states the appellants
have not had an opportunity to present evidence to the
PSC. If we were to grant the PSC motion for
reconsideration, these appellants would be denied due
process. An extensive hearing where all are invited to
wear their concerns about the smart meter program may
pursue the public, that the fox is not watching the
henhouse and more important, that sufficient safeguards
are in place to implement the smart meter program.
Judge O'Connell, further states that
opinion or order I fully expect the PSC on remand to
grant an individual appellant's a full and fair due
process hearing so that they would have their day in
court and would be able to air their concerns about the
AMI program.
In our form of government, the least a
government body should do is listen to the citizens and
provide a forum to allow them to air their grievances.
He says I concur a hearing was held below, in this
document, but supplementing this record with additional
facts and conclusions of law that accurately support
the PCS's ultimate decision and give the individual
appellants their day in court is a fundamental
requirement of our form of government.
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And my question to you is: Why has this
hearing not been held at this time since this opinion
was issued July 22, 2015 over a year ago.
Downes versus Bidwell is a Supreme Court
Decision 182 US 244, the language of Justice Cooley
states: The Constitution itself never yields to the
treaty or enactment; it never changes with time nor
does it in theory bend to the forces of circumstances.
It may be amended according to its own permission by
constitutional amendment but while it stands it is the
law for rulers and people, equal in war and in peace,
and covers with the shields of its protection all
classes of men at all times under all circumstances.
Its principals cannot therefore be set aside in order
to meet the supposed necessity of great crisis.
And Justice Matthews in that same case,
Downes versus Bidwell states when I consider the nature
and theory of our institutions of government the
principle upon which they're supposed to rest and
review the history of their development we're
constrained to conclude that they do not mean to leave
room for the play and acting of purely personal and
arbitrary power. Sovereignty itself it, of course, not
subject to law, for it is the author and the source but
in our system, while sovereign powers are delegated to
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agencies of government, sovereignty itself remains with
the people, by whom and for whom all government exists
and act. And the law is the definition and limitation
of power.
In Norton versus Shelby County, which I
handed you, has a lot more in it to say but the short
of it is an unconstitutional act is not a law it
confers no rights, it imposes no duty, it affords no
protection, it creates no office, it is, in legal
contemplation, as inoperative as though it had never
been passed.
If the PSC and all concerned government
public functionaries do not do their duty as prescribed
by the Constitution and laws of this land, these public
functionaries will be usurpers and will open themselves
up to personal liability.
There is no way that a public
functionaries operating in these de jure offices are
not aware of the citizens concerns. Plausible
deniability therefore cannot be used as a shield of
immunity.
Remember one thing: "When a man who is
honestly mistaken learns the truth, he will either no
longer be mistaken or he will cease to be honest."
And a little postscript, there's a
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lawsuit presently right now with Aric Nesbitt,
Representative Liberati, Joe McCormick, Robert
Sitkauscus and Valerie Brainer as defendants in federal
court and more to follow.
Thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Mr. Tatar.
Dominic Cusumano.
Good afternoon.
MR. CUSUMANO: Good afternoon. I'll
start off to say that the MPSC has empowered the
utility to abuse the public through their complacency
and tariffs and enforcement of their own rules.
Starting off with rule -- in the staff hearing of the
U-17000, the staff of the MPSC made the decision that
the smart meters were safe and reliable and gave
basically permission to the two utilities, Consumer's
and DTE to go ahead and deploy these meters statewide.
The staff hearing was conducted by MPSC
Staff and was not a contested hearing according -- but
according to the rules, a contested hearing should have
been held on that matter because the public or anyone
else did not have any say in that hearing.
In turn the hearing -- the decision was
granted that the meters were safe and they were
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deployed by everyone in the state.
With that in mind, no one on the staff
of the MPSC has any medical background. They have no
background on the privacy issue and no background on
anything to do with the medical with these meters and
the effects of those meters, but they deemed them safe
on their own recognizance.
Now moving forward, there was an opt-out
hearing. The Court of Appeals had remanded a decision
back to them, the MPSC, to have an opt-out hearing and
to be able to give the public the ability to opt-out.
With that in mind, a lot of people that
are in the room here were intervenors in that opt-out
case. All information and all testimony that was
brought up in the opt-out case that had to do with
health, safety, and privacy was all struck by the
ALJ Mack, and was not allowed to be brought into the
hearing for the simple reason that they said they were
there just to decide on what it was going to cost the
public to opt-out.
Moving ahead, they during the hearing of
the opt-out, they literally sat there in the room with
all of us and told us that whether you opted-out or
not, DTE's representatives testified we were all
getting the same meter whether you opted-out or not.
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All they were going to do was they were going to come
out and install a transmitting meter on everybody's
house and they were going to charge you to send
somebody out to turn the transmitter off on that house.
And the transmitter would be the only part of that
meter that would be disabled. All other functions of
that meter would continue on, and the only real
difference between the opt-out meter and the real meter
is that the opt-out meter would, someone would come
out, plug into it, and read all your information off
that meter at one time at the end of the month rather
than have it streamed to DTE all month, besides the
RF's that would be produced by the meter it was
transmitting.
The one thing that has to be kept in
mind is that these meters, they transmit like a daisy
chain from meter to meter to meter until they find in
the neighborhood the hub meter. That hub meter is the
one that transmits all the information from that
neighborhood to the collector.
With that in mind, whether you have a
transmitting meter or not, and your two neighbors have
transmitting meters, they're transmitting straight
through your house 24/7. You're getting all the
radiation coming through your house as if, almost as if
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you had your own meter on the house.
Now going to the staff report that was,
staff report 18099, which was from August 29th of 2016,
the staff report that was, the conclusion of that staff
report was that Commissioner Sari states a utility's
goal with delivering world class service to its
residential customers carries with it responsibility to
have in place programs that provide assistance to
special needs residents in our state.
It went on to say: Today the Commission
is making it very clear that we are giving the guidance
and direction to the utilities to work with families
facing medical challenges. It went on to say: These
Michigan residents deserve the opportunity to live a
quality life with the assurance that life-saving energy
service will be provided.
This basically is the conclusion of the
U-18098, which was a staff, again another one of these
staff hearings.
The MPSC, as I started off, has abused
the public by giving the utilities the power, and they
continuously come back to us, the public, and say that
they do not have any jurisdiction over the type of
meters that are used for collection of data at the
houses as far as power is concerned and recording of
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power.
But according to R 460.101(a) which is
Scope of Rules, it states under No. 3, upon written
request of a person, utility, or its own motion, the
Commission may temporarily waive any requirements of
these rules when it determines the waiver will further
the effectiveness and efficient administration of these
rules if it's in the public interest.
The MPSC has literally washed their
hands up to this point in time and said that they do
not have any jurisdiction when they do have the power
to give waivers, written waivers to anyone with medical
conditions to be able to get a smart meter off their
house or not have a smart meter.
Under R 460.151, which is reporting
requirements that the utilities are to make to the
MPSC, again, giving the out to the MPSC and not in
saying that they're naive to these things because
apparently the utilities are not reporting to them the
disconnects and everything else that's going on out
there, there is on the reporting requirements that they
have, if you look at these reports, all these reports
state is the disconnects, the shutoff notices, and the
complaints are problems that they're having with
payments.
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If a customer does not make a payment to
a bill they have the right to come out and disconnect.
And what they do is submit to the MPSC a report of all
these type of issues as far as payments are concerned.
But in essence, these reports should
also show a record and a breakdown of the fires, the
privacies, and any harassment or intimidation that the
utility companies have been showing to the public.
A lot of people on the U-17000 case
going back way to when the staff approved the meters
for everybody saying they were safe, there was 400
people that had sent in complaints and comments on that
case. They were all treated by the MPSC as comments.
None of them were treated as complaints, so none of
them had any hearings opened up on them and nobody knew
what was going on because they were all considered
comments, when a lot of them were complaints and the
public did not know how to file a complaint.
But under your scope of rules you have
the ability to circumvent these issues. It is
important then when they do do their reports that they
include the fires, the privacy aspects, and most
importantly the medical.
A lot of people complained to the
utility companies about the medical issues, and you
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never see them at the MPSC, they're swept under the
rug. There's no record of the public's complaints.
And as far as the medical is concerned and the
different type of objects and actually getting specific
on these things, they are not reporting them back to
the MPSC because it is not a requirement.
And going back to the beginning of the
changes on this report, you have -- give me one second
here. That was on Rule 133 which used to be -- now
it's Rule 151, it used to be Rule 133, it was the
reports that they have to give out.
Let me see -- oh, as far as the, in the
opt-out hearings, the definition of opt-out in the
Webster's dictionary was defined as: To choose to do
without. That definition was changed in the opt-out
hearing by the utility companies to mean: To modify,
not to choose to opt-out.
Now we run into this other situation of
hazard and the definition of hazard. The utilities
have changed the definition of hazard also, going the
other way, so that if someone does not have the ability
to enter your yard and look at your equipment and maybe
possibly change it out, it's considered a hazard.
In 2012, my wife was getting sick for
some reason, we didn't know what it was. We found out
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at a party at Thanksgiving in 2012 that they had put a
smart meter on our house. Went back, looked, there was
a smart meter on the house, unbeknownst to us.
We asked them to remove it. They said
no. We asked them two, three times to remove it, there
was no answers back. We went out and we bought
ourselves an analog meter, we gave them a 30-day notice
to remove it from our house, our house that we own. We
went out and switched out the meter and sent them back,
bubble-wrapped, perfect condition, their meter with
pictures of the meter so they couldn't accuse us of
stealing any electricity. We switched out the meter,
and my wife started feeling much better, she didn't
have that issue anymore.
Within three months they sued us in
Circuit Court of Oakland County for tampering with the
meter, which faces a $25,000 fine and a felony
conviction. We have been fighting them in Circuit
Court for over four years in Oakland County. And to
this -- and right now the case is on stay and it's
still hanging out there everyday of our lives.
And we believe that if it's your house,
you own the house, you own the property, you own the
box. All they're supposed to do is be able to record
kilowatt usage per hour for billing purposes. These
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are not meters according to the definition of the
tariff that they operate under. A meter is a unit that
is there to record kilowatt usage per hour for billing
purposes.
These are devices. These are not
meters. These go way beyond the scope of being a
meter. And in our court case, in our court case in
front of Judge Kumar in Oakland County Circuit Court,
the Judge asked the attorney from DTE that if this unit
was a meter and didn't do all these other things, then
why was it necessary for us to switch it out. And he
said it is necessary for the system to work properly,
the whole system. She said: So you're telling me that
because you say it's a meter, you're allowed by the
MPSC to have this on their house? And you could come
to my house, she said, and you could put a camera on my
house, as long as it's connected that meter, a
surveillance camera could be connected to my house in
my back yard? And his comment was: Yes.
So anything they want to attach to this
meter, or that this meter can do is allowable through
your blessings through the MPSC.
Thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you, Mr.
Cusumano.
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Sarah Mullkoff.
MS. MULLKOFF: Yes.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you.
Good afternoon.
MS. MULLKOFF: Good afternoon. My name
is Sarah Mullkoff. I'm the Energy Program Director at
the Michigan Enviromental Counsel here in Lansing. We
represent about 70 different environmental groups
throughout the state. We also play a role in ratepayer
protection as an intervenor in utility consumer
participation board cases.
And I'm here today to speak with all due
respect to the significant number of comments this
morning. I mean that sincerely. I'm here to speak on
a difference angles of the topic at hand.
Specifically in our role to ratepayer
protection, we look at energy policy and electricity
planning in a holistic way. And one of our primary
concerns about Michigan's historical over-capacity
position is that it has in part at least contributed to
Michigan having the highest electricity rates the
Midwest. And as we move forward we need to better
compliment our focus on generating capacity with
meeting demands in the most cost effective manner,
including all possible non-generation alternatives.
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What I mean by that is that the most
effective way to lower demand use of a resident's
impact on the grid overall is to implement more energy
efficiency programs and cost savings mechanism,
including access to utility data.
Some of this includes advanced meters.
When the Commission approved installment of advanced
meters in both DTE and Consumer's Energy service
territory, it was based on projections that the meters
would result in over $500 million of savings, meeting
future capacity requirements through demand response
programs.
Ratepayers are currently paying for
those meter investments at a cost of over 1.1 billion.
However, the savings will not materialize
automatically. It's going to require Commission or
legislative action. It will require that the utilities
follow through and create rate tariffs that change
behavior and encourage those savings to happen.
For instance, in pilot studies, the
utilities demonstrated that 40 percent of residential
peak demand could be avoided through time of use
design. So now is an appropriate time for utilities to
achieve those maximum savings they said were possible,
otherwise ratepayers are paying for the meters but not
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receiving the economic benefits through energy
efficiency.
And so in the case today is specifically
referring to Section 460.153, and we think the
technology has great potential to reduce customer
costs, especially in regards to the use of electricity.
We're at an age, an information age where access to
data, and through use of that information could modify
behavior in an either active or passive manner that
holds great potential.
Unfortunately, the significant change in
the type and nature of consumption data is not
reflected in the proposed rule change. With
traditional meters, a snapshot of use data was
sufficient for most services in determining where
potential energy savings could be realized.
Today, with access to time of use rates,
advanced thermostats, smart appliances, and energy
computer software, a much more robust access to data is
needed. In addition, a number of energy efficiency
service providers is now offering customers detailed
programs to help them manage energy use and reduced
costs.
It is in the best interest of citizen
ratepayers, residential ratepayers, to participate in
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these programs. Most are designed not only to reduce
overall energy use, but use during peak demand periods
when the cost of energy is the highest. A reduction in
these overall peaks will lower capacity requirements
for utilities and therefore reduce costs across the
board for all, all energy users, including the
residential ratepayers that we represent.
So we propose the following change be
made to 460.153; one, require regulated utilities to
participate in programs such as www.greenbuttondata.org
which helps safe -- which helps provide a safe and
secure interface between utilities, customers, and
energy efficiency service providers. This program has
already addressed security issues and data formats in a
manner which would significantly reduce the burden on
MPSC and Michigan utilities to develop programs and
formats themselves.
In addition, it's a program in which
third party providers are already familiar with, and
can therefore offer lower costs and services to
Michigan customers.
Two, require that the information be
acceptable on an ongoing basis to maximize the value of
information and reinforce positive behaviors which
reduce electricity use.
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Three, set forth clear, simple, and most
importantly affordable process to activate the home
area network capabilities of new meters to facilitate
the use of these appliances and control customer load
during peak usage periods.
We understand that there are privacy
concerns which must be addressed but utilities across
the country have met this challenge and provided robust
access for customers to use their data. This rule
gives Michigan an excellent opportunity to move forward
in realizing the benefits of these meters in saving
residents on their monthly utility bills.
It should be the policy of the MPSC to
take all possible steps to facilitate the robust use of
this technology so that all ratepayers can realize all
potential cost savings which could be realized through
their, through this customer data.
Thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Ms. Mullkoff.
(Brief recess taken.)
JUDGE SONNEBORN: We are back on the
record in Case No. U-18120 continuing with the
presentation of public comments.
We have Mr. Chuck Caroselli.
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Carole Gorecki.
Kenneth Rhoads.
Good afternoon.
MR. RHOADS: Good afternoon. Yes, my
name is Kenneth Rhoads, Macomb Township.
And Dr. Barrie Trower, about six years
ago I sent a girl all the way to England to interview
him because he's talked about the microwave technology,
he's microwave scientist, he was saying how it's
changed our DNA so I want to leave you this DVD when I
get finished here.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you.
MR. RHOADS: Because I feel like the
MPSC, they're not working for we the people, they're
working for the corporation, DTE and all the rest of
them.
I heard one woman say they want to
change our behavior. I don't mind you changing my
behavior, I don't mind you saving me money, but don't
kill me and make me sick while you're doing it.
My wife wakes up with the legs cramps,
and her legs are dancing all the time and the doctors
don't know what's wrong. Well, if she would do a
little research she'd find out.
This room has a lot of people here
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today, and I'm telling you when this, when it, finally
the people realize that they got sent a notice, we're
going to change your meter to save you money, which is
a lie, they're not, they ain't doing nothing to save us
money, they're doing it to control us. This room, you
wouldn't have enough room in here when the people
finally wake up and figure why they're getting sick.
And far as MPSC, I feel like they're in
the pockets of DTE. They call it politics, I call it
corruption. And I can't wait till the day they come to
MPSC and put a lot of them in handcuffs for being
corrupt. And that's all I've got to say.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Mr. Rhoads.
MR. RHOADS: Here's a DVD. It's an
interview of Barrie Trower.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: David Nash.
MR. NASH: Yes. Thank you for letting
me speak.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Yes, good afternoon.
MR. NASH: My name is Daniel.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Daniel. I'm sorry.
Daniel Nash.
MR. NASH: Yeah, I pretty much agree
with the sentiments of most of the people that have
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already talked, so I'm just going to make it short and
say I think we could go along way by fixing the problem
by having a real choice, bust up the monopoly of the
utilities, let other companies come in, sell
electricity, maybe have a few of them give a real
analog opt-out and let it go from there and see who
does better, because back in December 2nd of 2015, up
in Lansing, they had a house hearing. The MPSC was
there, Consumer Power, DTE, all said on record none of
them had a doctor on any, any staff anywhere, yet
they're coming out saying these are all safe and we
have to take them and we don't have a choice.
And as far as I'm concerned living in a
republic, which I think we still have, I do not
delegate any authority for them to do that. I don't
want a smart meter, opt-out meter, whatever they call
it on there, I want my opt-out, I should have that
choice.
If that's the case, if I don't, then
they should stop taking tax dollars to run their
business and charge me. To me that's double-dipping,
and that's not a choice at all. That's not a republic,
that's a tyrannical government if you ask me.
And I have documentation here from
doctors on health issues and whatnot that I'd like to
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submit.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Yes, you may.
MR. NASH: Okay. And that's all I had
to say.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: All right. Thank you
very much for your comments, Mr. Nash.
MR. NASH: Thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Ralph Stenman and
Donna Stenman.
Good afternoon.
MS. STENMAN: Good afternoon.
MR. STENMAN: Good afternoon. I'm Ralph
Stenman. This is my wife Donna. And Donna has got a
few things to say.
MS. STENMAN: Yes. Where to start? We
go back to 2011 with Detroit Edison. In 2013 we
watched DTE replace the smart meter on two homes of our
neighbors on the same street and replace it with analog
meters. We took pictures. I talked to the one
homeowner. She also is a cancer survivor, as I am, and
we had a very nice chat I guess you could say.
Last year, 2015, August 14th, 2015, DTE
cut-off our power at the pole because I could not
consent to a smart meter. There were police there. It
was humiliating; I'm sure that was their intention. It
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was quite an experience that I don't want to go through
again ever, although I will not accept a smart meter.
I'm a cancer survivor. My husband has
heart issues. They are a known Class B carcinogenic.
It's known. We have documentation. This is fact.
We're not making this up.
Part of my cancer treatment was
radiation treatments and they said at the time you can
have no more. If you have reoccurrence, you cannot
have more radiation. And they want to put this device
on my home.
It says in Rule -- let me find it --
133, Reporting Requirements, there is a category to
track smart meter medical disputes: Neither the
Commission nor the legislature knows the true extent of
all those living without power because of the smart
meters we are forced to accept and pay for a non-analog
meter opt-out for health reasons. The rule states that
our power can be shutoff if we do not allow SS to
replace equipment. The rules also state if you are not
satisfied with the utility's actions, you have a right
to file a complaint and your power cannot be shutoff.
We are, we were in the Court of Appeals
when they shut us off. We are now in the Supreme Court
with the motion up for reconsideration. And it's still
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undetermined right now what their answer will be.
Even though we are shut off they still
come out and read our meter. Our meters are dead. We
are not stealing electricity. I hope they're not
planning on billing us for something that we aren't
receiving. That doesn't seem logical. But we don't
trust them. They're full of surprises.
There's just so much to cover.
And because of our shutoff and being on
a generator, my husband contacted pneumonia last
November. He was in the hospital from November to
January and in rehab from January to March. He now has
lost 40 percent of his one lung and he cannot do much
under exertion. That's what being shutoff has done to
us. We couldn't keep our home warm enough and it was
getting really cold out.
I guess I ask you, we ask you to give
this heartfelt consideration in changing these rules.
We need to be taken into consideration. We the public,
we the people, this should not be happening. People
being shutoff unfairly, seniors. We had no -- I had no
notice. I was in my bathrobe, my hair in rollers, two
police cars, people all over my neighbor's lawns,
Mr. McCormick walking around.
MR. STENMAN: We did not get ten days
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notice like we were supposed to either.
MS. STENMAN: Right. Ten-day notice and
a four-day red flag you are supposed to receive; we got
nothing. We were still the courts. No consideration.
What are they trying to prove? They can hurt people;
yes, they can. They shouldn't be doing this. These
meters are bad. They make people sick. I had two dogs
in my neighborhood die from tumors. They've had the
smart meters on their home for about five years now, it
goes back to 2011. If they put they smart meter on our
home we would have had to move.
It just doesn't seem right. And the
discrimination in the houses down the street that have
analog meters because the one lady was a cancer
survivor also. I felt very discriminated against.
We thank you for your time and allowing
us to present our stories to you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Ms. Stenman. Thank you Mr. Stenman.
Myron Nims.
Good afternoon.
MR. NIMS: Good afternoon. My name is
Myron Nims. I live in Salem Township, Washtenaw
County. I'm here to protest that the utilities call
the shots, this is nothing but enslavement of the
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people. In my first encounter with Detroit Edison is
when I got a notice I was getting a smart meter and I
protested. They came and did it when I wasn't home and
left a massage on my answering machine.
We called Edison and told them we were
having headaches, my wife was having heart
palpitations, we would like to get it removed. They
said oh, no, it's just you're getting monoxide from
your dryer vent. I said you're crazy.
So about that time we were having a home
generator installed and while the electrician was there
I got an analog meter from a place in Florida and had
him change them out. We sent the analog -- the smart
meter back to Edison to Mr. McCorey by UPS, had him
sign he received it, put the analogs in, they came and
read the meter for three months, then they told me I
was stealing electricity and they were going to shut me
off.
So they came out and shut us off and
when they shut the power off I didn't know what I was
going do, I just fortunately had a little backup
5,000-watt generator. They tried to figure out what I
was going to do and my nextdoor neighbor was cutting
the hay and he came over and asked me what was going on
and I told him. He said, well, I know a guy in Milford
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who installs solar power.
So I had him come over and look at it.
We went with the solar power with a backup generator.
Edison kept calling me and telling me they're going to
read my meter. And I said you can't read a meter, I
don't have one.
So we finally decided, my wife and I,
that we would go off-grid and we did. I took my
retirement account and put in solar panels and a backup
generator and I've been living off grid and I'll tell
you it's great, no headaches, no insomnia, no heart
palpitations, nothing. I hope you don't give the
utilities the granted fees and crap they want.
Thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much
for your comments, Mr. Nim.
Shannon Kig.
Good afternoon.
MS. KIG: Good afternoon. I wasn't even
sure whether I wanted to speak or not, so thank you for
calling me up.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Sure.
MS. KIG: And after hearing peoples'
testimony today I decided that, you know what, I do, I
do want to say something just based on my observations
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of the testimony that I've heard and the behavior of
the people around me.
And one of the things that I've heard a
lot is how these power companies, how their officials
behave in very arrogant manners -- manner very often,
very condescending, and they almost seem to be very
sure of themselves and their ability to break the rules
that the MPSC has set for them because it doesn't seem
to me that you folks are policing them, and that you
are enforcing the rules that they have agreed to abide
by. So I wonder who, you know, I wonder are you folks
doing your job, first of all?
And the other thing that really struck
me was the young woman who, she spoke for the State of
Michigan and I don't remember, she was from some
environmental agency, and she was talking about the
need, she was the one person who spoke out in favor of
the -- she didn't call them smart meters because we
know that's become a buzz word, so she called them
advanced metering, and how they needed the advanced
metering in order to save us money.
And she, the specific phrase she used
was robust access to data is needed. And it made me
wonder, well, is collecting that kind of data even in
the charter of the power companies? Aren't they merely
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supposed to provide us electricity? If they are
collecting more than that, aren't they going beyond
what they have given permission -- been given
permission to do? I don't know the answer to that
question but I assume that you folks do.
And I, knowing that there are so many
health issues, privacy issues, and that the smart
meters have been classified as a Class B carcinogen I
believe someone said, imagine if the young woman had
come up and said instead: I want to save you money and
in order to do that I'm going to put a Class B
carcinogen on your house; you'd think is, does she have
a disconnect? You know, is she even able to understand
what she's saying?
I -- there are many ways that the power
companies and the citizens can get together and decide
how to solve whatever energy generation problems we
have. We just heard a man who, he went off the grid.
He's all solar. He's not any kind of burden on the
system.
And we can make moves towards that
direction and, and solve any energy generation problems
that we have. We don't need to, to choose toxic
solutions to these problems.
And finally the body language, and I
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can't, this is my simple observation, the body language
of the public officials that I've observed has been --
not of everyone, but of some of the people here, they
have appear to be very condescending to the citizens
who are coming before you to give their honest
testimony about their experience.
And if that is the situation that we're
facing, when we're looking in our country where we see
tensions rising and rising between various racial
groups, between the police and the citizens, between
blacks and whites, and men and woman, if the power
commission is going to continue to abuse its power,
then I think what you're going to have is the citizens
will come to strongly resent the -- I think you can
hear that in peoples' voices the anger and resentment
that we are beginning to feel towards you people. And
I don't mean you, ma'am. I don't know you. And you,
you yourself have seemed to be very respectful.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you.
MS. KIG: But towards our public
officials, do we really want to have the citizens
resenting them and increase the level of tension in
this country? Do you really want to be on the
receiving end of that?
And if you don't, then you need to act
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responsibly, and you need to act for the citizens,
because we are the ones who empower you.
Thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you so much.
Sharon Koenig.
MS. KOENIG: I'm Sharon Koenig.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Okay. Koenig. Good
afternoon.
MS. KOENIG: Good afternoon. I worked
in my earlier years in business with the Oakland
Livingston Human Service Agency in the middle
seventies, and I then went on to something else. But I
must say after -- this is the first time I've been to a
Public Service Commission hearing. But I used to hear
about the problems back then from the agency and I
don't think they've changed.
I think that the Public Service
Commission has really not done their due diligence in
working with these people, I mean the utilities, and I
think that they should be ashamed of themselves.
They, the Public Service Commission has
a fiduciary duty to us, the public, to protect us
against people who only want more money. And I've seen
this for years, and I think it's wrong. I think that
you are breaking the law. And I think that somebody
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should file complaints against whoever, with whoever
who can control this a little better than what's been
going on. And this is since the seventies that I've
seen it.
I was born and raised in Omaha,
Nebraska. We had public power. I never knew until I
moved here as a married person that people made money
off the public utilities. They aren't even public,
they're private. And that was just an absolute
aberration to me.
So I hope that somebody takes this to
heart and understands that you don't need more money.
We need safe meters. I just heard that on -- there was
never a doctor's opinion submitted when the decision
was made to allow these things. That's unheard of.
You ought to be ashamed of yourself. That's it.
Thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Ms. Koenig.
Suzanne Yarbrough.
MS. YARBROGH: Hi.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Good afternoon.
MS. YARBROGH: Good afternoon. Thank
you for having this hearing.
Your press release about this hearing
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did indicate that we could ask questions so I would
like to know: Who is going to answer my questions?
JUDGE SONNEBORN: The Commission's Staff
attorney, Mr. Filler, will be your conduit to any staff
member who he believes may best be able to provide you
with answers to your questions.
MS. YARBROUGH: Okay. How do you spell
his name; F-i-l-e-r?
JUDGE SONNEBORN: F-i-l-l-e-r.
MS. YARBROUGH: Okay. Thank you for
that.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: You're welcome.
MS. YARBROUGH: Okay. Does anyone at
the MPSC take an oath to uphold the US and the Michigan
Constitution? That's my first question.
Second question: How does a monitoring
device that monitors and records every electric
movement on someone's private property not violate
reasonable expectation to privacy?
Third question: Why doesn't the MPSC
make sure that the harmonics and transients on the
lines are safe?
Fourth question: Why hasn't there been
any independent safety testing on these meters? It's
only industry-funded studies. So I think there really
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should be independent safety testing.
Also I sent in a FOIA request of how
many complaints received on smart meters to the MPSC
and they told me 1,734.
The complaint process to me is
non-existent. My so-called investigator can just say,
you know, we can't help you any further. That's what
they've said, and his name was Jake Thalen.
Anyways, it does appear to me that the
MPSC does not take Michigan citizens' complaints
seriously, actually telling us that our health was
insignificant. And responding to peoples' complaints
that had doctor's notes, they wrote no prima facie
which there should be a new rule, no hazardous smart
meter anywhere in Michigan.
And here is Exhibit A, DTE's leaked
document: How the Meter Overheats and Explodes. There
was two fires in Livonia, Michigan regarding the smart
meter. A man in Redford's home blew-up when he turned
his light switch on. So my friend spoke to his brother
and they said it was a smart meter. Geoffrey Fieger is
on the case.
So, let's see; one second.
There should be a new rule that states
that the Michigan Attorney General can not work both
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for the Michigan public and the Michigan Public Service
Commission. Court of Appeals Judge Peter O'Connell did
state this, that it was conflict of interest. How can
he possibly work for the public and for Michigan Public
Service Commission? Yes, it was stated earlier, the
fox in charge of the henhouse. It's very sad.
There should be a new rule, all
correspondence in English, not Latin; a new rule that
only a UL certified meter with a licensed electrician,
installed, not just somebody that does not have a
license. I have to have a hair license to do hair in
the State of Michigan. Whoever put that meter on your
home should have to alert you that they are doing
something to your home and give you something in
writing.
And here's another question for
Mr. Filler: Why isn't there any paperwork given
regarding opt-out meter or sign a contract accepting
the opt-out meter? We, we had a opt-out meter placed
on our home against our will, and I never opted into
this program. According to the 2005 Energy Act you are
supposed to request the meter. So I was supposed to
call and request the opt-out meter. I did not do that.
DTE told me we assumed you wanted the opt-out.
And there should be a new rule regarding
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full disclosure of the smart meter function. The data
that they are taking off of private property is
property of that property owner. So how can they just
come to peoples' property and take stuff that is not
theirs? Data is property. The data on your laptop,
the data on your I-Phone is your property.
It appears that MPS, the MPSC Staff
approved this meter without testing the full power
strength of the meter. 2.5 gigahertz is in the
microwave range. We have been lied to that this is a
radio frequency.
The word utility originated from the
Greek word you utilis. It is supposed to be
advantageous to one's life, not full of deceit, lies,
trickery and fraud. When a utility is doing this,
which that is what these utilities are doing with these
meters, it is no longer a utility.
So we want freedom to choose analog
meters. We want it now. And we the people have
spoken. We want freedom to choose analog meters.
Thank you very much.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Ms. Yarbrough.
THE AUDIENCE: Why can't he answer the
questions? You said we could ask questions. She asked
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four questions of him. Does she get an answer?
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Let me be clear. As
the Administrative Law Judge assigned to conduct this
public hearing and take the public comments for
transmittal to the Commission, I am precluded from
answering questions.
Mr. Filler needs to obtain information
from the relevant staff members in order to properly
answer Ms. Yarbrough's questions. This is not an
evidentiary hearing which we provide questions and
answers. This is a public hearing in order to accept
public comments at presentation.
THE AUDIENCE: Okay.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Mr. Ron Yarbrough.
Good afternoon.
MR. YARBROUGH: How are you?
AMI advanced metering infrastructure.
This is from a recent Michigan Appeals court case.
Primary argument was: Under current regulatory rules
MPSC allows DTE to put electronic two-way communication
device with two transmitters which violates privacy in
a private home. They have no authority under current
regulations to do so. The meter has two transmitters,
one transmits usage data back to DTE, and the other to
communicate with smart chipped appliances. It's called
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disaggregation, the term is. Even when the transmitter
is off on the opt-out meter, it's still the -- DTE's,
well, it's still -- DTE's technology has been developed
to provide -- okay, DTE's attorney stated that
technology has been developed to provide better service
to the customer. And I added this: Remote disconnect,
spying, microwave pulsing 24/7, fires, hacking, and
info given to law enforcement.
Who gives DTE the right to control
peoples thermostats, the programmable thermostats?
I know a couple cases where they've turned it, well,
this is PG & E in California, they turned the
air-conditioning up 4 degrees and another case where
they shut it completely off, the air-conditioning.
Who gives DTE the right install a
bio-weapon on peoples' homes without informing them of
the dangers? This is from Barrie Trower, Microwave
Weapons Expert and former MI 6; this is according to
our CIA.
Microwaves penetrate everything.
Radio-waves need an antenna. Pulse microwaves are
known to cause neurological damage, brain tumors and
cancer.
Smart meters are WiFi enabled. Russian
scientist says WiFi frequencies are a known recognized
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frequency that can cause harm.
AMI uses the WiFi frequency. AMIs can
never be safe. They beam microwaves into your house
and communicate with appliances back and forth.
Then we have interviewed, me and my wife
have interviewed people over the past few years, and we
got nearly 60 testimonies of various health complaints:
Ear ringing, heart palpitations, sleep disruptions,
skin disorders. And Dr. Steven Sinatra stated how
smart meters affect our hearts. According to
cardiologist Dr. Steven Sinatra's AMI meters can cause
your heart to go out of rhythm, cause you to go into
atrial fibrillation, plus they are very toxic and they
destroy DNA. He writes letters all the time for
patients to get them out of their house because of
heart problems.
And you factor in the WiFi, the cellular
cordless phones, the cell towers, the air, food, and
water and other toxins in the environment, and he said
it's a perfect storm.
Here's some more AMI facts: According
to at least two reports, Amy Worthington and Josh Del
Sole, everyone's blood cells are affected, that's
everybody's. They establish daily living patterns.
It's called disaggregation, I mentioned that term
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earlier, the word, the whole building usage is broken
down into appliance specific data. They are
susceptible to hacking because of RF. Data is given to
law enforcement. Fires are occurring because of AMI.
Data theft, it's called conversion,
violates Rule 750.362. It's called intrusion of
Seclusion, 750.539, even if you don't have AMI, the
mesh network covers the whole neighborhood area
network. So for instance, I'm the only one in my
neighborhood who has analogs. Everyone else has AMI.
Luckily the houses are kind of far apart so hopefully I
won't be affected too much. Okay. That's done there.
Who gives DTE the right to violate the
following laws: Michigan Penal Code, Act 328 of 1931,
MCL 750.539; it's a felony to install a surveillance
device on private profit without the explicit consent
of the owner.
MCL 460.62, Utilities Commission Act is
necessary for the preservation of public peace, health,
and safety.
US Code Title 18, Section 2511;
Interception of electronic communications without the
consent of transmitting entity is prohibited.
18 Code -- or 18 US Code, Section 113;
forceful -- forcing harmful, parentheses, anything
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above 60Hz radiation upon the public is public
endangerment and prohibited.
And then US Energy Act of 2005, as I
mentioned, no federal mandate, AMI must be requested by
the customer before installation can take place.
The Michigan Consumer Protection Act,
also The Precautionary Principle which is: When human
activities may lead to morally unacceptable harm that
is scientifically plausible but uncertain, action shall
be taken to avoid or diminish that harm.
Then finally, The Bill of Rights,
Article IV; The right of people to be secure in their
persons, houses, papers, and effects against
unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be
violated, and no warrant shall issue, but upon probable
cause supported by oath or affirmation, and
particularly describing the place to be searched, and
the persons or things to be seized.
I'll move on to the Michigan State
Constitution, Article 1; what business is it of the
DTE's, what appliances are being used and when? This
aggregation, taking whole building usage and breaking
down the client's specific date to establish the daily
living patterns.
In 2008, only 3 percent of the homes had
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AMI. After the first Obama Administration there were
43 million were installed. He signed the Executive
Order for the rollout and deployment. The last number
I heard it was 65 million. His Executive Order I
believe is 13,054. I'm not sure of the exact last
three numbers, 13,000, you can look it up.
Now there's been fires caused. Some of
the fires are a Livonia fire on October 25th, 2013,
fire causing extensive damage, AMI blew up in an
installer's face while changing the meter.
Lakeland, Florida, the whole box burned
up 3 feet from where the kid's bedroom was.
Lakeland, Florida, again, 178 AMI
replaced due to overheating.
Pennsylvania Apartments in February '14,
30 residents displaced, 16 apartments affected. AMI
outside of a shop blew up.
Report from fire marshal on AMI, he said
there's an usual amount of fire incidents.
A PG & E whistleblower testified in the
California Public Utilities Commission, AMI causes
fires. He was fired after being a meter reader for
nine years.
A guy named Pat Rigely said that there
were 1,000 meter readers, cost $70 million a year. The
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AMI cost $10 billion. PG & E is claiming 2.2 billion.
So in short we need total banishment of
AMI. If you don't have the meter on your house, even
though you're involved in the mesh network in your
neighborhood, even though you may not have the meter on
your house, the whole, it's called the Neighborhood
Area Network, it's the mesh network of the
communication back and forth from the meters and then
it's sent on to what is called a Medusa Meter, one
person in the neighborhood has the collective meter for
the neighborhood.
Anyways to start this off we need to get
a hearing on the Bill 4916 going, that will be the
first step. Then the next step will be total
elimination of AMI.
That's about it.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Mr. Yarbrough.
Michelle Rison.
Good afternoon.
MS. RISON: Hi there. I wasn't
intending to speak today but --
THE AUDIENCE: We can't hear you.
MS. RISON: I wasn't intending to speak
today --
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Can you hear me okay now?
THE AUDIENCE: No.
Talk right in the microphone.
MS. RISON: Oh, okay. Is that better?
THE AUDIENCE: Perfect.
MS. RISON: Okay. So I wasn't intending
to speak today, but I wanted to reply, respond to the
woman named Sarah. I think she was with the Michigan
Environmental Counsel perhaps?
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Yes, I think it's
Sarah Mullkoff.
MS. RISON: Okay. So she was speaking
of the necessity for AMI and its value for reducing
power consumption and avoided costs. And those avoided
costs, the way it's set up is for the, to avoid
building new power companies -- or excuse me, new power
plants. And there's another way of addressing all of
this. To -- the concept of one of the main metrics
that Consumer's Energy is using to justify the AMI is
the avoided capacity. And to do that, they're
installing 178,000 air -- wired air-conditioning
switches.
In the current electric rate case,
17990, they're looking at a cost of $43 million to do
that. In the previous case, the 2015 electric rate
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case, 17735, that was about $28 million. And I don't
know why there's an increase now, but those, those
switches are being given to people who have 220-voltage
central air. And they are they're supposed to
volunteer for that, and they will receive a discount on
their electric bills because when there is a peak load
they'll be able to dial that down. And they do that
voluntarily, and they receive a rebate for that of some
sort, a reduction in their electric costs.
So, but if you look at the quarterly
reporting rule, currently Rule 133, and you look at how
many customers are late on their bill each month during
the summertime, last year in 2015, there were 6,700,000
of Consumer's Energy customers that were at least 30
days late on their electric bill for July, August and
September. And that's, you know, of out of 1.8 million
customers you're looking close to 30 percent of people
that can't pay their electric bill. And those people
typically do not have air-conditioning, central air
that runs on 220-voltage. They have 110 plug-in
air-conditioning units. Those units, that's where the
real issue is.
So you maybe have 300,000 to 600,000
people who are plugging in with 110 and 110 is more
disruptive to the grid, the conditioning of how the
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grid operates, than 220 when that gets plugged in.
So you have this class of people,
300,000 to 600,000, people who are being left out of a
benefit of costing $43 million that 178,000 people are
receiving a number of benefits from. And the reason
again that those 178,000 people who could afford these
switches themselves, and who are getting a reduction in
their electric bills is because they can dial them down
and avoid building another electric plant.
But then you still have these 300,000 to
600,000 people who are not paying their electric bill.
And I don't have the exact numbers, but DTE, I'd seen a
number from perhaps 2014 that $16 million a year is in
uncollectibles for residential customers.
So you have like 43 million going to
these AC switches. And then you have an additional
annual 16 million about for people who can't pay their
electric bills. And so you take all that money
together, and if you actually addressed the root cause
of the peak loading which is the thermal envelope of
someone's home and you looked at changing their roof
color, ventilating their attics, doing something to
physically change their home to eliminate the peak
loading altogether.
And, let's see; so it just, it doesn't
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make sense that we all have to have these smart meters
that, you know, people are paying $750 million, net
present value, which is the billions of dollars over 20
years, the numbers keep changing. The benefits -- the
AG found that there was no benefit. It was very much
beyond -- below. And in the latest Court of Appeals
case of the AG's case where it's, you know, it came out
and it was publicized that the Court of Appeals said
yes, Consumer's Energy AMI case is completely
justified.
But again, Judge O'Connell, you couldn't
access his -- what you call it -- dissenting opinion
that same day that it came out, but what he said was
that it defies logic that the Court of Appeals did not
look at the information. So, and the numbers are
continuously changing and you're not really
addressing -- the smart meters do not overall reduce
the consumption, the usage of electrons and gas
molecules. They change the time that they're used.
They shift.
So you dial down your air-conditioning a
bit during the peak loading time, but, you know, you
turn it up later the day when you're not at peak
loading, so you still have to, you know, use the same
amount of energy to get your house comfortable again if
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that's what you depend on.
But you could actually ventilate your
attics and lighten your roof's colors and you would at
least reduce that peak loading effect. If not, there
are ways that you could greatly, greatly reduce it.
And you could ventilate the attics, you know, the
people who are really into renewable energies, you
could have small solar panels on the roof that are DC
powered that are not connected to the grid in any way
whatsoever. So you have, you don't have to justify
conditioning the grid in a virtual way for your power
factor effects and things like that.
So I guess that's probably the best I
can do off the top of my head. So thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you very much,
Ms. Rison.
MS. RISON: May I say a few more things?
JUDGE SONNEBORN: You may.
MS. RISON: The other thing I'd like to
say is that a good many of the people in here that are
here today probably found out about this hearing maybe
four days ago and have tried to learn about these rules
since maybe Sunday. And to really do justice to this,
you know, you not only had to read the amended rules,
but you need to read the existing rules. You need to
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know the two medical hold cases that just occurred, and
the definitions and whatnot that came out of them, and
how that affects critical care, and the shutoffs. And
then you would need to know about the quarterly
reporting requirements, the Rule 133. And you would
have to be able to to move all that together to really
understand what's happening. And overall, these rules
are written such that they benefit the electric
companies or whatever utility it is. There's nothing
in here for when they violate their own rules or don't
provide safe service to people. You know, it doesn't
come from that aspect at all.
You know, in the medical holds case,
they, you know, the people that were being protected
have smart meters. They have medical letters and they
can't pay their bills. The people that, you know, sent
in comments about how they were being harmed by smart
meters, they're paying their bills, they have medical
letters, and but they have they have a smart meter and
they cannot tolerate that technology. And they're
being discriminated against. You know, that's how,
how -- you know, they've got a medical letter as well.
How can it be accepted and justified in one aspect and
not another?
And then with the existing rules, Rule
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103, specifically speaks of discrimination and it
doesn't carry forward into the new rules. Maybe
they're in there somehow but if you read every page of
this, it's not written in here.
Then -- let me see if there's anything
else.
And, you know, in the medical hold case
that we attended, it was simply stated that this is
absolutely not about smart meters and they were
concerned about people dying. And there was a case
last year with CICO where a man froze to death, and,
you know, there was a concern about that. And that's a
quiet case.
It would be interesting to see if that
showed up, if there was a line item from people dying,
the Rule 133 reports. Those things aren't tracked.
They're just quiet cases, as were the medical hold
cases.
The, I mean what's going to happen when
someone actually does die from a smart meter incident?
You know, we, we sent in comments and people are
genuinely, I mean they could have died, where if you
had read what was, what was forwarded that Chris
recently received, there are very serious things that
are occurring.
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And it's heart breaking that, you know,
for the shutoffs that were, that have been spoken
about, the new rules, without notice. Currently, you
know, if you are shutoff you need to have your power
restored within one day.
And now, there's an exemption, kind of
an absolution that, you know, if it's extenuating
circumstances like there's an excavation or a pool cut,
you don't need to get your power on. You're not -- you
don't have to get your power on the next day. And so
many people here that's directed to people that have
had pool cuts and all the people living here that have
had their power shutoff speaking here today.
You're lucky I'm not going through every
page of the rules here. We'd be here all day.
The last thing I'd just like to say is,
you know, that the rule does state, Rule 101 (a) No. 3
that the Commission does have the ability to offer a
temporary waiver for these people, that until something
gets sorted out, could we please allow people to keep
their analog meters and keep their power on until
something gets sorted out? Because this is, I mean
what are you going to do when someone actually dies? I
mean what's going to happen?
And someone, Dominique read earlier from
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the staff report about Commissioner Sari's comments in
May of 19 -- or 2016 when the medical hold case was
opening up about, you know, we need to protect
vulnerable citizens, we need to, we need to have
programs of world class service. You know, residential
customers need programs that provide assistance to
special needs residents in our state. You know, so
many of the people here, they're elderly, their health
is vulnerable in some way, they need accommodations.
And then he said: Today the Commission
is making it very clear that we are giving the guidance
and direction to the utilities to work with families
faced with medical challenges, yet that didn't happen
in the medical hold shutoff cases 18098 and 18099. The
smart meter people, this isn't, this case is not about
smart meters.
And there has been new evidence that has
come through since the year 17000 6/29/2012 report,
staff report that said all of this was safe. There is
new evidence that has come forward. And lastly
Commissioner Sari said: These Michigan residents
deserve the opportunity to live a quality of life with
the assurance that life-saving energy service will be
provided. And from what you hear, what you heard
today, that is simply not happening.
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So please, please take advantage of your
temporary waiver, what have you, and see what can be
sorted out. Thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Thank you so much for
your comments, Ms. Rison.
Is there anybody else who wishes to step
forward and make a public comment who hasn't already
done so and otherwise signed the sign-in sheet?
Thank you to all of the individuals who
presented statements today. Please know that any
person may also file with the Commission written or
electronic comments, data, views, questions, arguments,
and notifications concerning this issue that's before
the Commission. To be considered, those comments need
to be received at the Commission by no later than
5:00 p.m. on October 13, 2016, and they should
reference Case No. U-18120.
Thank you all so much for your
attendance and contribution to a smooth public hearing.
We are adjourned.
(Discussion off the record.)
JUDGE SONNEBORN: Let's go back on the
record.
MS. KIG: Sure, I just wanted to ask on
behalf of everyone, because I'm sure we're all curious;
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how will we know what the outcome of this hearing is?
How do we find that out and when can we expect a
decision?
JUDGE SONNEBORN: I don't know when the
Commission expects to file the rules that are being
proposed. I do know that once all of the comments have
been submitted and this transcript is completed, it is
considered transmitted to the Commission. I can't give
you a specific timeframe. Perhaps the staff
representative who is here today has a better insight
into that, and if so, he may address that with you off
the record.
MS. KIG: Okay. Thank you.
JUDGE SONNEBORN: All right. Thank you
very much. Off the record.
(At 2:22 p.m., the public hearing was adjourned.)
- - -
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C E R T I F I C A T E
I, Erin Stilman (CSR-3588), do hereby
certify that I reported in stenotype the proceedings
had in the above-entitled matter, that being Case
No. U-18120 before Suzanne D. Sonneborn, J.D.,
Administrative Law Judge with Michigan Administrative
Hearing System, at the Michigan Public Service
Commission, 7109 West Saginaw Highway, Lake Michigan
Room, Lansing, Michigan, on Thursday, September 22,
2016, and do further certify that the foregoing
transcript consisting of 167 pages is a true and
correct transcript of my stenotype notes.
__________________________________ ERIN STILMAN, CSR-3588, RPR-019261 33231 Grand River Avenue Farmington, Michigan 48336 My Commission Expires: August 8, 2022
Dated: __________________________
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