5

Pop Art

Cent• S\H'nsnn\ inh·rvit'\\\ with t·i�ht Pop artists in two is.,llt� of :\rt News t'onsliluh' om• of tlw primary dot·umc•nls of Pop :\rt-th(' moH·-111('111 that 'hook tlw art \\orld in the c·arl� 'ixlit�. In tlw first iw.tall­nwnl. it was annotlllt't'll that Oldc·nhur� would ht· inh'n ic•wc'll in tht' st'l'OIHI part, hut for some• rt•astm (pt·rhaps. as tlw artist stl��t·sls, he ma� han.· ht'l'll away l lit' "a' not ineludt'<l ami was n·plat't'<l hy Stepllt'll Durkt't', '' ho was not rt'prt•st•nted in any of tht' ma�•r Pop shows.

The first �roup c·xhihition in the l'nih'<l Stult•s hrin�in� lo�t'lht'r the• artists for whom lht• sohriqut'l "Pop" was SINIII uni\'C'rsally adoplt'd \\US

the .\'eu· Rt•alist.\ !>how ul the Sidnt•y Janis Callery. 'mt·mht•r 1-Dt·· c('mber I. HKi2 That prt•st•ntation ( w hit·h indudt'<l Europt•ans) was followed hy Lawrc·m·t• Alloway's Sir Painter.\ awl tlw Object at tht' Cuggl'nhc·im \h"t'lllll. \larch 14-Jum· 12. 19():), ami :\lin· l>c·nnc·� \ The Popular ltJillRt' t•xhihilion. at the· \\'ashin�lon Caller� of \lodc•ru Art. April 1�-Jtmt· 2. Wfl:l. whoSt' t•atalo�llt' (t'SSU) hy Alan Solomon) was al'l'(llllpanit'<l h� a rt'l·ording of inh'rvit'\\S "ith tlw artists l'ondud­t'll by Billy KliivN.

\Vhill' thest• individual Pop artists diffewd from l'ach other evt·n more than the Al'lion Painters had. lhl'y did shart' st'Vt'ral gt'llt'ralchar­aderistil-s in tht• t•arly yc·ars: their suhjt'l·l malh·r was takt•n dirt't·lly from our c.·ommNl'ially abundant t•vt•ryday world; lht•ir ima�t·s wt•rt• st•<.·nnd-hand. from twwspapt•rs. magazim'S, TV. ami other ild\'t'rtisc•­ments; ami thc·ir style• owt-d much to the· immt'<liah· impal'l. tht• brash 'implificalion. ami t•yt•-<:all-hing c.·olnr of c.·ommerl'ial art. By tht• mid­'ixtit>S, l.i<.·htensh•in 's l'OIIlks, Oldt•nhur�\ hamburgc•n;, and \Varhol's < :Umpl>t'll soup t·ans had ht't.'OIIlt' almost as familiar as tlw produds I hey startt-d from

* * *

Excerpted from G. R. Swenson, "'What Is Pop Art?' Answers from 8 Paint· era," Part I, Art New11 (November 1963)

JIM DINE (1935-

\\'hat is your attitudt• to Pop Art? J ll I dort'l ft't'l \cry pure• in that rt>spt't'l. I dm.-. dt•alt·xdusiwly "ith lht•

2 1 . Jim Dine. Shoe, 1961 . Oil on canvas, 56 X 641; in. Private collection.

Courtesy Sonnahencl Gallery, New York.

1'01' \liT 8}

popular image. I'm more concerned with it as a part of my landscape .... Pop art is only one facet of my work . More than popular images I'm interested in personal images, in making painting� alxmt my studio. my experience as a painlt'r . about painting itself. about color charts, the pal­ette. about elements of the realistic landscap<>-but used differently .

The content of a Pollock or a de Kooniug is concerm·d with paint, paint quality . color. Does this tie you to them iu tht•ory?

J.D.: I tie myself to Ahstral'l E x pressionism lik1' fathers and sons . As for vour question . no. No, I'm talking about paint . paint quality . color charts and these things objt't·tively , as ob jects .... It alwa\S fdt right to liSt' ob­jects, to talk about that familiarity in the paintings ... to recognize bill­hoards . the beauty of that stuff. It's not a unique idea-\\'alker Evans photograplwd them in 1929. It's just that the landscape around you starts dosing in and you've got to stand up to it.

Your paintings look out and still make a stalcml'llt about art '"

J D.: Yes. but a statement about art the way sonwont' dse talks about new Detroit cars, objectively. as another kind of thing, a subject.

\bstrad Expn·ssionism leuded to hK1k iu·�

J.U: Yes.

h this the differt·nce hdween your work aud theirs')

J.D.: I don't know what the difference is. Ccrtaiuly :\bstrad Expwssionism iuflueneed me. particularly Motherwdl. I think he's cont inually growing and making problems . ... Ami I love the eccentricity of Edward Hopper .

tlw way he puts skies in. For me he's more exciting than Magritll' as a Surrealist. He is also like a Pop artist-gas statiom and Sunday mornings aud rundown streets, without making it Social Realism .... It seems to me

that those who like Hopper would be involved with Pop somehow. Or those who like Arthur Dove-thost� paintings of sounds, fog horns, the circle ideas that were meant to be other things . There's a real awareness of things . an outward awareness ... the statemt>nt alxmt bridging tlw gap ht"tween art and life is, I think . a very nice metaphor or image ... but I don't belit•ve it. Everybody's using it now. I think it misleads . . . . There's

art and there's life. I think life t·omes to art but if the object is used, then people say the objed is used to bridge that gap-it's crazy. The ohjed is used to make art, just like paint is used to make art.

82 AMF.RICAN ARTISTS 0!'1; ART

ROBERT INDIANA (1928-

What is Pop?

R.I.: Pop is everything art hasn't lx·en for the last two decades. It is basi­cally a V-turn hack to a representational visual communication .... It is an abrupt return to Fatht>r after an abstract fifteen-year exploration of the Womb. Pop is a reenlistment in tht• world. It is shuck the Bomb. It is the American Dream, optimistic, generous and naive .... Pure Pop culls its techniques from all the present-day communicative pnx:csscs . . . .

Will Pop replace Ahstraet Expressionism?

R.I.: In the eternal What-ls-Nev .. ·-in-American-Painting shows, yes; in the latest acquisitions of the avant-garde collectors. yes; in tht> American Home. no. Once the hurdle of its non-objectivity is overconw. A-E is prone to he as de<:orative as French Impressionism. Thert' is a harshness and matter-of-factness to Pop that doesn't exactly make it the interior decorator's lndispt•nsahle Right lland.

Is Pop here to stay')

R.I.: Give it ten yt'ars pt•rhaps; if it matches A-E's fifteen or twt•nty. it will he doing wdl in theS<' accelerated days of mass-medium circulation. In h'�<·enty y<•ars it must face 1984.

Is Pop easy art?

R.I.: Yes, as opposed to one eminent critic's dictum that great art must necessarily be difficult art. Pop is Instant Art. ... Its comprehension can be as immediate as a Crucifixion. Its appeal may be as broad as its range; it is the wide-sereen of the Late Show. It is not the Latin of the hierarchy, it is vulgar ....

Is Pop love?

R.I.: Pop is love in that it accepts all ... all the meaner aspt"cls of life. whieh, for various aesthetic and moral considerations. other schools of painting have rejeeted or ignored. Everything is possible in Pop. Pop is still pro-art. hut surely not art for art's sake. 1\jor is it any !\leo-Dada anti­

art manifestation: its participants are not intelledual. social and artistic

maleontents with furrowc·d brows and fur-lined skulls.

Is Pop America?

R.I.: Yes. America is very much at the core of every Pop work. British Pop. the first-horn. came about due to tlw influt•nec of Anwriea. The

22 Robert Indiana, Tfu. Anu>rlcan Dream, I, 1 96 1 . Oil on canvas. 6 h. X 6()1_;, in. MuSt'um of Modern Art, New York. Larry Aldrich Foundation Fund.

84 AMERICAN AR ri�T'< "' .\RT

gerlt'ratin� issue is Anwricasm [ski. that phenonu-non that is swt·cpin� ewry c:ontinent. Frend1 Pop is only slightly Frem·hified; Asiatil' Pop is stm• to ('Orlte (n·memht•r Hong Kor1�). The patlt•ru will not bt· far from tht' Coke. the Cur. the llambur�er. the Jukebox. It is tlw Anwriean Myth. For this is the bt•st of all possible worlds.

ROY LICHTENSTEIN (1923-

What is Pop Art'�

R.I..: I don't know-the use of comnu-rcial art as subjt•d matter in paint­in�. I suppose. It was hard to �l'l a paint in� that was despil'ahle t•nough so that no one would han� it-t·\·t•rybody ''as hangin� evt'fything .... Tht• ont• thing everyone hated was •·ommc·rdal art; apparently they didn't halt• that enou�h eitht•r.

Is Pop ,\ rt dt'spieahle'�

R.L.: . . . \Vdl. it is an involwnll'nt with what I think to lx· tlw most brazt•n and threatenin� eharaderistics of our culture. thin�s we hate. hut which art• also powerful in tht'ir impingenwnt on tL'i. I think art sin<.•t• (:(•.,.anne has lx'<.·ome extremely romantic ami urm·alistie, ft'f'din� on art .... It has had les.� and lt-ss to do with the world. it looks inward .... Pop :\rt looks out into the world; it ap1x•ars to accept its environnwnt. whieh is not good or lmd. hut different-anotht•r state of mind .... Tlwn• art• <.'t•rtain thin�s that an•

usable. fon·dul and vital about c·ornmt•rcial art. \\'t•'rt• usin� those thin�s­hut we're not wally advcx:atin� stupidity, international lt't·nagNism and h•rrorism ....

Antagonistic critics say that Pop Art does not transform its moch•ls. Dot'S it?

R.L.: Transformation is a stran�e word to use. It implies that art trans­forms. It doesn't, it just plain forms .... I think my work is different from comi<.· strips-hut I wouldn't call it transformation; I don't think that whatever is mt•ant by it is important to art. What I do is form, wht·n·as tht• comic strip is not formed in thc.> st•nse I'm usin� tlw word; tlw comics have shapes but thert' has ht't'n no effort to make tht•m intc·nst•ly unifit•d. The purpose is different. orw intends to dt•pid and I intt•nd to unify. And my work is actually different from comil' strip!> in that every mark is really in a diffc·n·nt place, howevt•r slight tht' diffl•rt•n<.'l' seems to some. The diffl·ren<."l' is oft(•n not �n·ut. but it is crul'ial.

OKAY. HOT-5HOT. OKAYl I'M

POUR/Nul

If

2.'1. Ru)' Lichtenstein. 0.1(. Hot Shot, 1963. Oil and magna on canvu, � X 68 in. Private rolll'<.1ion. Turin (Piwr" Courlr•v 1-<'o Ourrlll <:..llnfl, Nrrc )'orl)

86 AMEHICA� AHTIST� 0� �HT

:\ curator at the \1odt•rn \tuseum has called Pop Art fascistic and milita­ristic.

R.L.: The herot.•s dt.•pided in comic lx1oks are fascist typt·s. hut I dmd take them seriously in these paintings-rna�·lx· there is a point in not lakin� them st.•riously. a political point. I ust.• tht'm for purely formal reasons. and that's not what those henx•s wert• invented for . . . Pop Art has very immt•­dial(' and of-the-monlt'nl mt•anings w·hid1 will vanish-that kind of thin� is ephemeral-and Pop takes advantage of this "nlt'aning," which is uot supposed to last. to divt'rl you from its formal conlt•ut. I think tht• formal statenlt'nl in my work will lx·l·ome dean·r in time. Supt.·rfil'ially. Pop set•ms to he all subject matter, whereas Abstract Expressionism. for exam­ple. seems to be all aestlwtk ..

Is Pop Art American?

R.l..: EV('rylxKiy has called Pop Art ":\nwrican" painting. but it's adually industrial painting. :\nlt'rica was hit by industrialism ami capitalism hard­er and stx1nt'r and its valu('s s.•em mort• askt•w ... I think the meanin� of my work is that it's industrial. it's what a l l t he world will scxm ht•eomt•. Europt.' will lx· the samt.• way. soon. so it won't l�t• American; it will ht• universal.

ANDY WARHOL (1928-

A.W.: Someone said that Brecht wanted t'\'t'rylx�tly to think alikt•. I want ewrylxxly to thi nk a l i ke. But Brecht wanted to do it through Commu­nism. in a way. Hussia is doing it under �overnment. It\ lwppt•ning here all by i t st.·l f . . . . Everybtxly Jcx,ks alik<' ami ads alike. and we'r(' �etting mon· and more that way. I think {'\'('rybody should be a machint•. I think everylxKiy should l i ke t•verylxxly.

Is that what Pop Art is all alxmt'�

A.w.: Yes. It's liking things.

And l i k ing things is likt.· lx·ing a machiue?

A.W.: Yes. l�t-caust• you do the same thing t.•vt•ry time. You do it over and over again.

And you approvt' of that?

A.W.: Yes, because it's all fantasy. It's hard to lx· creative and it 's also hard

1'111' .\RT R7

not to think what you do is crt•ative or hard not to he called creatiw be­cause cverylxKiy is always talking alxJUt that and individuality. Every­body's always being creative. And it's so funny wlwn you say things aren't. like the shoe I would draw for an advertisement was callt'd a "creation" but the drawing of it was not. Rut I guess I believe in both ways ....

Is Pop Art a fa<P

A.W.: Yes, it's a fad, hut I don't set• what difference it makes .. . . I think somebody should ht• ahlt' to do all my paintings for me. I haven't lx•en able to makP evt>ry image dear and simple ami the same as the first one. I think it would lx· so great if mort• people t<xJk up silk screens so that no one would knmv whether my picturt• was mine or somelxKiy dse's ....

\Vas commercial art more machim·-like'�

A.W.: No, it wasn't. I was getting paid for it. and did anything tlwy told me to do. If they told me to draw a sh<x•, I'd do it. and if they told me to corret·t it, I would-l'd do anything they told me to do. correct it ami do it right. I'd hav<' to invent and now I don't; after all that "correction," those commercial drawings would have feelings, they would have a stylt•. The attitude of those who hirt•d nw had feeling or something to it; they knew what they wanted. they insistP<L sonwtinws tht'y got very emotion­al. The process of doing work in comnwrcial art was machine-like. hut tlw attitudt• had feeling to it.

Why did you start painting soup cans?

A. w.: &cause I used to drink it. I used to have the same lunch every day. for twenty years, I guess. the same thing over and over again .. ..

. \ly show in Paris is going to be callt•d ''Death in Arm·rica." I'll show tlw dPctric-chair pidures and the dogs in Birmingham and car wrecks and sornt• suicide pidures.

Why did you start tht•st• "Death" pictures?

.'\ w.: I believe in it. Did you see the Enquirer this week? It had "Tht• \'\'reck that Made Cops Cry"-a head cut in half. the arms and hands just

lving thPre. It's sick. but I'm sure it happens all the time. l'w met a lot of !'ops recently. They take pictures of everything. only it's almost imJXlssi­hlt· to get pictures from them.

Wllt'n did you start with tlu· "Dt•ath" series?

.-\ W.: I guess it was tht• big plane crash pidure, tilt' front page of a llt'\\spa­pt·r: 129 mE. I was also painting the Marilyns. I realizt•d that everything I ''as doing must have lx•en Death. It was Christmas or Lalx1r Day-a holi­day-and t"ven time you turrwd on the radio they said soml'lhing like. "4

24. Andy Warhol. Car CrtUJh (or .5 Deaths 17 Times). 196.'1. Silkscrf'f'n on canvas. 104 X 1!2 in.

Private collection. (Piww: C:uurtrsy teo C:a.<trllt Gall•·ry, Nt•u• )'orl)

1'01' .\RT 89

million are goin� to die." That started it . But when you St'<' a gnu·some picture owr and over a�ain. it doesn't really have any effect . ...

Is "Pop" a had name?

A.W.: The name sounds so awful . Dada must have some t hing to do with Pop-it 's so funny . thl' name s are n•ally synonyms .... Johns ami H a us­dwnberg-\leo-Dada for all thesl' years, and t'veryone calling thl•m dt•­rivative and unable to t ransform t he things they use-art• now called pro­genitors of Pop. It's funny the way things change. I think John Ca�e has been wry influent ial , and \terce Cun ningham. too. maybe .... \Vho knows? Maybe Jap and Bob were i'.ieo-Dada and aren "t any more. History books art• I K·ing rewritten all the time . It doesn't matter what you do. Every lxx:ly just goes on t hinking the same t hin�. and every year it gets more and more alike. Those who talk about individuality the most are tlw ones who most object to deviation, and in a few years it may he the other way around. Someday everybody will think just what they want to think. and then evt'rylxx:ly will probably be thinkiug alike; that seems to lw what is happening .

Excerpted from G. R. Swenson, "'What Is Pop Art?' Answers from 8 Paint­

ers," Part II, Art News (February 1964)

JASPER JOHNS (1930-

What is Pup Art'�

J J.: There has lx·en an attempt to say that t hose classified under that tt•rm liSP imagt•s from the JX>pular representations of t hings. Isn't that so?

Possibly But peo ple like Dine and Ind iana-even you were included in the exhibitions . ..

J.J.: I'm not a Pop artist! Once a term is set, eVl'rylxxly tries to relate anyl)(x:ly they can to it because there are so few terms in the art world. Labeling is a JX>pular way of dealing with things . . . .

It has bel'n said that the new attitude toward painting is "cool." Is yours?

J J.· C:l)(>l or hot, one way S<'l'I11S just alx>ut as g1xxl as another .... I've takt'n different attitudes at diff<·n·nt tinws . Tha t a l lows different k i nds of ad ions. In focusing your t'Y<' or your m i nd, if you focus in one way. your actions will t end to he of oru• n a t ure; i f you f1x·us a not her way , they will IJt· d iffer<"nt . I prefer work that appears to come out of a changing fo-

cus-not just out• relationship or t'Vt'll a llltmlx·r of tlwm but l'ottstauth

chan�in� and �hiftin� relatiomhips to thin�s iu h'rrm of fot·us. Ofku. IHIWt'\'t•r. ont· is \t•ry sin�lt·-mimlt·d ami pursues ont• particular point; of­len ont• is bliml to the fad that tiJt•rt• is auother \\a� to '>�'t' "hat is tlu·n·

Are you aspirin� to ohjt'l·tivity'�

J.J.: \1y paintin�s are not simply t•xpressive �estures. Stllnt• of them I have thou�ht of as fads, or at any rate there has ht·t•n somt• ath'mpt to say that a thin� has a certain nature. Sayiu� that. ont• ho1x•s to avoid sayiu� I ft.l'l this wa� about this thin�; ont• says this thiug is this thin�. and ont· n·­sponds to what orw thinks is so.

I am conn·rrwd with a thin�\ not lx·ing \\hat it \\as." ith its bt•coming soml'lhin� other than \\hat it is. with any monwnt in \\ hich one identifit-s a thing prt'cisel� and with tht' slipping away of that momt·nt. with at an� moment st't'ing or sayin� ami lettin� it go at that.

What would you cottsidt•r tlw differt'lll't' hl'lween suhjt•d mutlt'r and ccm­tent. ht'h\t't'll what is depit·ted ami what it rnt'ans·�

J.J.: \kanin� implit·s that sonwthin� is hapJx·ning; you can say nwaning is delt'rmiued h� tht' liSt' of tlw thin�. tlw \\ay an audit•m·t· liSt'S a painting once it is put in public. \\'lwn �ou s1x·ak of what is dt·pil'lt'<l. I h·ml to think in terms of an inh'ution But the intt•ntiou b usually with till' artist. "Suhjed matter'") \\'lll'rt' would � ou focus to dett•rmine suhjt'l't matlt'r')

What a thing is. In your Device paintings it would lx· tlw ruler.

J.J.: \\lhy do you pit·k ruler rather than wood or varnish or au� otlwr dement'� What it is-suhjc.·t:t rnatlt'r, tlwu-is simply dt'termiued h� \\hat you're williug to say it b. What it rnt·am i" sirnpl� a questiou of \\hat you're willing to lt•t it do.

Then· is a gn·at dt·al of iuteution in paintin�; it\ rather unavoidable. But wlwn a work is let out by tlw artist and �tid to ht· complt·h·. tlw intention loost•ns. Then it's subjel'l to all kinds of liSt' and rnisust· and pun. Occasionally someom• will set• the work in a way that t'Vt'll changes ib significance for tht' pt"rson who madt' it; tht' work is no longer "inh·n­tion," hut tlw thing being St't'll and Sti!Ot'tme respondin� to it. Tlwy will see it in a way that makt'S you think. that is a pos.,ihlt• way of St't'in� it. Then you, as the artist. can enjoy it-thafs possible-or you can lanwnt it. If you like. you can try to expres.� the intention mort• clt•arl� in anotlwr work. Rut what is intert"Sting is anyone having tht• t'Xtx•rit•nt•t•s ht' has.

Are you talking alxmt tht' vit•wt•r or tilt' artist?

J.J.: I think t•itht'r. Wt're not ants or bt•t•s: I don't St't' tltut we ou�ht to takt• limih-d mlt•s in rt'lationship to things . I think om· mi�ltt just as wt'll prt•-

1'01' \RT ,'JJ

tend t hat hl' i� the cen ter of what llt''s doi11g a11d what his t 'Xpt'rit 'lll'l' i'>, and t hat it's o11 ly he who l'all do it

If you cast a bt"t'r l'an. is t hat a t'OIIllllt'llt':'

J.J.: On w hat '�

On beer t·am or sot:iet y. Wht'll you dt•al wit h thi11gs i11 tlw world. so<:ia l at titudes an· l'OIIIIt'ch·d with t ht•m -an•11't they?

J.J.: Rasically. a rtists work out of rather stupid ki11ds of impulst•s a11d tlw11 t he work is done. After t hat tlw work is ust'd. 111 tPrms of t·omrnt•nt. tilt' work pmhahly has it. some aspt'l'l wh ich rest·mhlt� la11guagt·. Puhlidv a work lx>t:onlt''> uot just intention. hut tlw way it is ust"tl. If an artist makes '>omet hing-or if �ou make dwwi11g gum and t•vt•rylxKiy t'llds up using it as glue. w hot•vt·r made it is giwn thl' rl'sponsihility of maki11g �hw. even if what llt' rl'al ly inl t·mls is l'ht'\\ i11g gum. You l'an't t'olltrol that kind of thi ng. As fa r as lx•ginni11g to makt• a work. one call do it for a11y reaSt'm.

If you l'ast a lx·t'r l'all. you do11't have to ha\'t' a StK'ia l attitude to lx·t•r l'ans or a rt':'

J.J.: �o. It tK'l'tJrs to me you're t alki11g about my lx"t·r l'alls. ' ' hil'h han· a story lx•hi11d t hl'm. I was doing a t that timt> st•ulptun•s of small objel'ls­flashlights and light bulhs. Tht·n I hPard a story about Wil lem dt• KtKlll­ing. lie was a1111oyt•d with my deaiN. l.t•o Castelli, for St'lmt• n·ason. ami said somet hi11g like . "That son-of-a-bitl'h; you could giw him two lx·pr l'ans and ht' l'o uld sel l t hem . .. I hea rd this and thought. "What a Sl'ulp­ture-two hl't'r cans." It st'l'nlt'd to lilt' to fit in perfedly with w hat I was doing. so I did tht'm-and Lt•o St'1ld t hem.

Should an a rtist al'l'Ppt suggestiom.-or his t•nvi ronnlt'nt-so easily':>

J J.: I t hink basil·al ly t hat's a fa lSI'· way of t hinki11g. At'l't•pt or rejt·ct. wherl''s t he t•ast• or the d iffil'ulty'� I dou't put any va l ul' on a kind of thinki ng t hat puts lim its on t h i ngs. I pn•ft•r t hat t he art ist dot•s w hat he does t han t hat. after he's done it, sorru•one says he shou ldn't have dom· it. I would encourage evt•rylxxly to do mort• rat her t han lt•ss. I t hink one has to assume t hat t lw art ist is fret• to do what he pleases so t hat whah•vt•r he does is h is own business. t hat ht· had t·hoiees. t hat ht• coultl do st1met h i ng l'lst·.

But should n't t he ar t ist have an a t t itude to h is suhjt•t·t. shou ldn't he t rans­form i t?

J.J.: Tra nsformat ion 1s m t lw ht•ad. If you have one t hing and make an­other t hing. tlwn· is no t ransformat ion. hut then• an• two t h i n�s. I don't th ink you would m istakt' orw for anot ht•r.

. \Ven•n ' t you just sa� i n � t ha t a r t should 1 1ot hl' used as a soc i a l fort·t ;�

J.J . : For m ysd f I wou ld choose t o ht' as m m· h as poss i ble o u t s idl' t ha t a rt•a . I t 's d i ffic u l t l>t'ca liSt' wt• a re comt a 1 1 t l y fan·d w i t h soc i a l s i t u a t ions and our work is IH ' ing used i n ways \\ l' d id 1 1 ' t ask for i t t o he ust'd . \Vt• set• i t l lt ' i l l � done. We ' re n o t id iots .

Tht' l l i s i t IX'ing m isused i 1 1 a soc i a l s i t u a t ion ·�

J.J . M y poi n t of v iew tends to b t· t hat work is l x· in� m isused i 1 1 most s i t uat ion s . \; everthelt•ss I fi 1 1d it a \'t'r � i 1 1 terest i n g possi bi l i t y , t ha t ont• ca n ' t con t ro l t he s i t u a t i on . t lw way Ol ll' \ \\ ork is v il'wed . t ha t onn· om• offers i t to lx· Sl'en t hl'n a n y bod y is a bl e t o st•t• i t as he pleases .

TOM WESSELM ANN ( 1 93 1 -

What is Pop A rt '�

T . W . : I d isl i ke la lx· l s i l l gl'nera l a mi Pop i n pa rt i c u l a r . t'SJX'<:i a l l y h t'cause i t over-em phasizl's t h l' mater ia l used . Tht•rt· does st•em t o be a tendt•nc\ to ust• s i m i la r mater ia ls and i m ages . but t he d i fft·n·nt ways t he� a rt• used den ies a n y k i nd of gro u p i n t en t ion . .

\V hat i s t he purpost' o f j u x t a posing d i ffert'l l t k i nds of rl'prt•st · n t a t ions'�

T . W . : I f t herl ' was a n y s ingl t · aspt'd of m y work t ha t l'Xci t t'd lilt' , i t was t hat pmsibi l i t y -11ot just t hl' d i ffen·ntTS lwt wet•n w hat t lwy Wl'rt' . but t hl' a ur a t'ach had w i t h i t . Thl'y t·ach had such a f u l fi l led rea l i t y ; t he rewr­herat ions St't'med a way of m a k i n g t lw pid u rt · more i n tenst• . :\ pa i n t ed pack of <: igart' l l t•s nex t to a pa i n t t •d a pplt• wasn ' t enough for l ilt' . They a rt• lxlt h t he sa mt' k i n d of t h i n g . But if ont• is f rom a e iga rel l t• ad and t he ot her a pa i n t t•d a pple. t hey art' t wo d i fferent n·a l i t i t·s a mi t hl'� t rade on each ot lwr ; lot s of t h i ngs- bright st ro 1 1g colors . t he qua l i t il's of mater ia l s . i m ages f rom art h istory or advert i s ing-t rade on each ot her . This k i nd of rela t ionsh i p hel ps establ i sh a momen t u m t h roughout t he pid ure-a l l t he denwnts a re i n some way very i n t e nse . .

Some of t he worst t h i ngs l ' w rt•ad about Pop :\ rt have l'O illt ' f ro m i t s ad m i rers. They lx·gi n t o smmd l i k<' somt· 1 1ost a lg ia l' l l l t -t l l t 'y rea l l y wor­sh i p \1 a r i l y n Monrm· or Co t:a-Cola . The i m portam·t• pt•opl t · a t l al 'h to t h i ngs t h<' art ist liSt'S b i r rl' lt ·\ a l l l . My ust• of t' lt·mt• n l s from a d \"t'rt i s ing earn<' a lxmt grad ua l l y . Onl' day I used a t i n � l > ot t lt' pid ure on a t a hlt' in om· of m y l i t t lt· I I IH.Ie col lagt's . It was a l ogica l t• x t t ·ns ion of w ha t I \\ as doi ng . I use a bi l l lx,arcl pid u rl' l x·ea use i t i s a rea l . S J >t'l' ia l n· pn ·st•n t a t ion

25. Tom Wesselmann, Bathtub Collage #.'J, 1963. Oil on canvas and �'OI Iugc. 7 h. X � It 10 in . X 24 in .

Museum Ludwig, Cologne. Courtt'Sy Sidney janis Gallcry . New York.

of somt'l h i n � . not heca ust· it i s from a bi llboard . Adver ti s i ng i m a �t·s t •xl' i l t ' me ma i nly bt•ca tN' of w hat I cal l ma ke from tht'm. Also I liSt' n•a l ohjt'd s h t'ca use I need to use objects . not ht•ca ust• objec t s need to he used . But t he objed s re ma i n part of a pa in l in� hl 'ca ust' I d on't make en v i rol l mt·n b. \1 y ru� is not to lx· walkt'd on . .

W hat i 1 1 fl ut·nces havt' you felt i n you r work from . say . Dada":'

T . w . : \\'hen I fi rst came across it . I respt'clt'd i t and thought i t was prt'l l y good ; h u t i t d i d n ' t haw a n yth i ng to d o w i th lilt' . A s m y work l>t'ga l l to evolve I realized -not co 1 1sdously . i t was li kt' a su rpr ist•-that m ay be i t had something to d o wi th my work .

I t was the sa mt' wi th R a usche1 1 berg. \V Iwn I saw his pa i n t i ng w i t h tht' ra dios i n it I thought it was fi n e . O . K . . but it ha d no t'ffeet on lllt' . It ceased to ex ist for mt· exl·t •pt in Ha usdw n lwq.(s world . \1 1 1l·h la t t·r I �nl i nterested i 1 1 t hl ' add i t ion of move ment to pa i nti ng . so a pa rt of the pai nt ­i ng was a ttached to a motor . A n i u teresl i n us i n� light a nd sound fol­lowed - 1 put in a tel evis ion . Bnt not only for th e tel ev ision i m agt '-w ho t.·ares about t e levis ion i m ages '�-but beca use I ca red about the d i mension i t gave to pai nt ing . somethi ng that movt'd . and gaw off l ight and sound. I used a radio and w h en I d i d I felt as i f I were the fi rst w ho'd t 'Vt 'r used a rad io . I t 's not tha t I thi nk of that as an an·ompl ishnwn t - i t "s just t ha t Hausdwnlx·rg d id n ' t st•t ·m a n immed iate faet or i n i t. l-I t· w a s . of t·ourse ; h is ust· o f objt•els i n pa inti ngs made i t sonwhm\ leg i t i mate : h u t I ust•d a rad io for m y own n·asons . .

Do you mt'a n that colla gt· malt'r ials (X'r rn it you t o liSt' an i m a!o',t' and sti ll lx• nt ·utral toward tilt' ohjed n ·pn •st•n tt'd ·�

T . w . : I thi nk pa i n t i n g is essentially the same as i t has a lways l x•t' l l . It e<mfust,s lilt' that (X'oplt• t' X (X 'cl Pop A rt to m a ke a corn mt•n t or say tha t i ts adht'rents merel y acc ept t ht• i r env i ronment. I ' ve vi t·,n·d most of I he pai n t i ngs I 've lowd - Mond r i a n s , M a t i sses , Pol l oc k s-as bt• i n g ra ther dead-pan in that sense . All pai n ting is faet. ami that is t•umagh; t lw pa i u t ­ings are chargt>d with tht' i r very prt•St•nce. Tht' si tuati on . phys ica l idPas . physical prt'sence- 1 ft.•t•l that is t ill' comnwnt .

JAMES ROSENQUIST (1933-

J . R . : I thi nk cr i tics ar<' hot bl<)()(led . They don't take vt>ry much ti nu• to analy z<' what's i n the pa i nt i ug . . . .

I havt• some n·asons for usiug com men· ial i ma �t·s that thest• (X'ople

1'<11' \ li T 9.')

proba bl y haven ' t t hou�ht a bout . I f I ust• anony mous i m a�es- i t 's t n w m y i ma�es have not ht•t•f l hot blooded i m agt•s- t lw y ' ve been auon y mous i m ­a�es of recen t h istory . I n 1 960 and 1 96 1 I pa i n t t>d t he front of a J!.J50 Ford . I fel t i t was an anon y mous i m age. I was11 ' t an�ry about that . a1 1d i t wasn ' t a nosta lg ic i mage e i t her . J ust al l i m a�e. I ust • i m ages f rom old magazi nes-w hen I say old, I mean I H-t.'j to W5.'j-a t i me we have n ' t sta rted t o ferret out as h istory yet . I f i t was t he fron t t•nd of a n e w ca r t ht•re would lx· people w ho would be passionate ahout i t . and t lw front end of an old car m ight make sonw people nostalgic . Thl' images are l i kt' no- i m agt's . Then· is a fn•t•dom t here. If i t wt•n• a bst ract . IX'nplt• m ight m a kl' i t in to somet h ing . If you pa i n t Fra m:o-A nwriea n s pa�het t i . t hey won ' t m ake a crudfi x ion out of i t . and a lso w ho could he nosta l� ic a bout can ned spaghet t i ? They ' l l bring t he i r react ions hu t . probably . t hey won ' t have a s m a n y i rrelevant ones . . . .

The imag(•s a re now , al read y , on the ca11 vas a1 1d the t i me I pa i n ted i t is on t lw can vas . That w i l l a l ways be seen . That t i ml' spa n . people w i l l look at i t and say . " W h y d id he pa i n t a '50 Ford i n H J60 , why didn ' t lw pa i n t a '60 Ford '( ' . . . Tht• i m med iacy m ay lx- lost in a h u n d red years, hut don ' t forgt•t t hat h y t hat t i me i t w i l l l x- l i kt· eol lect i ng a stam p . . . . I f i t Jx,t lwrs to stand up-1 do11 ' t know - i t w i l l belong to a sta m p eollector . i t w i l l have nosta lgia t hen . B u t st i l l t hat t i me refen•nct• w i l l mea n somt'l h ing . . . .

As t i me g<x·s by t he bruta l i t y of w ha t a rt is . t he idea of w h a t art can lx · . changes; d i fferent fed i ngs about t h in�s heeonw at homt• , lx·l·omt· accept ­ed , na t u ra l . . . . [ Bru ta l i ty is] a new v isio11 or met hod to ex press somet h i n� . i t s value geared right to t he prest•nl t i me . . . .

When I was a st ud(•nt . I t•xplorcd pai n t qua l i t y . Then I star ted worki ng . do ing com mt•rc i a l pa i n t ing and I got a l l of the pa i n t qua l i ty I t•n•r want ­ed . I had pa int r u n n i ng dow n to m y a r m p i t s . . . .

I ' m a mazt'd and exci ted and fascina ted about t ht· way t h ings a re t h r ust at us. t he way· t h is i n v isi ble screen t hat 's a couple of fC'et i n front of our m i mi and our senst•s is at tacked by rad io and telt"v ision and v i sua l com ­

m un icat ions . t h rough t h i ngs la rger t ha n l i ft• . t he i m pact of t h i ngs t h row n a t us , at such a S JX't•d and w i t h such a force t ha t pa i n t ing and t he a t t i t udes toward pa i n t i ng and com m 1m ica t ion t h rough doi ng a pai n t ing now St't'lll wry old fash ioned . . . .

W hen I use a com binat ion of fragmen ts of t h ings , t he fragments or objt'ds or rea I I h i ngs a n· ca us! ic to om· a not lwr . a mi t he t i t It· is a lso ca ust ic t o t he fragmC'nts . .

I l rPal t lw bi l l board i magt• as i t i s . so a pa rt from nat u re . I pa i n t i t as a rt ·produd ion of other thin�s ; I t ry to gel as fa r away from t he na t u re as

possi ble Wht·n I first slar! t-d th i n k ing l ike t h b. fedin� l i ke t h is , from my out ­

door pa int ing . pa i n t i n g com merc ial ad vert is i ng . I wou ld bring home l'ol-

.,.: " � , ,. " � �

""' � -� ,. ..... = "' ; --: -� .

...

1'01' . \ 1 1 " 1 97

ors t hat I l i kt 'd . associations that I l i kt'<l u� i n� in my ab st ract paintin� . and

I would n·nwmbc·r �JX'l'ifics by say in� t h i� wa� a dir ty l>al'OJI tan . t h i � was a y c· l low T-shirt y t· l low . t h is was a \fan-Tan suntan oran�e and - 1 a h\ ays remem her Fram:o- :\ nwrican spaghett i oran�t· . I ca n ' t forget i t - �o I ft · l t i t as a remem lmml't' of thin�s . like a co lor chart . l i kt · lea rn i n� an a l phalx·t . Ot her peoplt• ta l k about painting nothin� . You just can ' t do i t . I paint something as ddadwd as I ca n and as wt' l l as I can ; t ht'n I haw om• i mage . t h a t ' s i t . nut in a St'nst' till' i magt• is l'X I X'nda hle; I have to kt•t•p till' image so that tht• thing dc x•sn ' t bt't:onw an al t t 'mpt at a gra nd i l lm ion . an e lt•ga nce . . . .

I f I ust.• a la mp or a chair. that isn't the subject. it isn't the �ub�·t:t matter. T lw re lat ionsh i ps may lx· the subjc'l't matter . the n•lat iomhips of 1 he fragment s I do. The conl t•n t w i l l lx· somc·t hing more. gai m'< l from the relat ionsh i ps . If I ha\'l' t h ree t h i ngs. t he i r relat ionsh i p w i l l lx· t lw �u bjt'el

ma t ter ; hut the l'OI I h'nt w i l l . hopdu l l y . lx· fattt•r, ba l loon to mon• t lum tht• su bject mat tt•r . One• t h i ng . t hough . t lw subjc.·l'l m a t t er isn't I X>pu lar i rn ­a�t·s . i t isn 't I hat a t a l l .

CLAES OLDENBURG < 1 929-

Like Lichtenslt•i n . Warhol . Dine. c•t a l . . Oldenburg had had om·-man e x h i bi t ions of h is work pr ior to t he t>a r l y Pop gr oup shows. On Dt•t·c·m­ber I . 1 96 1 . Oldt•n hurg OJX'ned "The Stort'" at I Oi East 2nd St rt •t•l , :\ ew York . In the l>ack r<XIms ht' prt'J>a H'tl h i s plaster ovc•r c h kkt•n w i n· . t'na rnd - j>a inted pit•s . ham burgt•rs . d rt•sst•s . sh i rts , and so on . wh ich ht' d isplayt'<l and sold up fron t . Tht• prev ious summer . a ft'\\ of h i s plastt>r t•ornmtKl i t it-s h a d llt't'n i ndudt'tl i n tht• \1 a rt h a Jacks on Ca l lt•ry Erwiron nwnt .� . Situations, Spaces show . in t he cata logue of w h ich a

st .'l't ion from his fa mous " I am for an art . . . " a ppeared . I t s k insh i p

w i t h Ka prow 's Pol loc·k pic't:e dtc.od ahow d id not esca pe O lden buq(s not ice; in fad . lw cal lc·d my at t t>nt ion to Kaprow 's essay . l lowc•vc•r . lw had corn pa ra blt• idc·as at t he sa mt• tinw . c•x prt�ssc•d i n pod r y . prost• , sketdws . paintings, ami scu l pt u re . No l'r i t ic has expl icated Oldc·nl m rg 's work so ludd l y . nor in sut·h vi vid langua�t· . r il·h i n mt•taphnr . as t he• art ist himsc·lf in his sc•veral lxx•ks . t•x h ib i t i cm l'ata logues, C'S.'klys . inh·r­v il'ws . publ i slwc.l and un puhl ishC'd st udio noh'!> and d iaries . •

• St-t- I he bihliograplti� in Barbara RO§(', Claes OldrniJU rl{, l\ t-..· York \lu�um uf \lod· •·r n :\ rl . I �70. and Clar• Oldenht,g: Teckn inl{ar. flkt-.J r..t/,•r ocl. grafik Oracl'in/<1• . rnl l< 'r· colon arul prln h , Slnl'k lwl rn : Modema M II!IC'<"l , 1!177 (a t,.. , prahl i�ht-d in Oraklt a nti En�o:li�h. and in Frt•m·h lor slww in�t-• at t ht• Stt'tlt'lijk. Arnstc•rdarn. ami Rt•aulxmr�o:. Pari•. rt"'l""'l iw· h )

* * * Claes Oldenburg, "I am for an a rt . . . • " from Store Days, Documents from the Store ( 196 1) and Ray Gun Theater ( 1962), selected by Claes Oldenburg a n d

E m m e t t Wi l l iams, New York, 1 967 . Copyright Claes Oldenburg

I am for a l l art t hat is po l i t ica l -erot ica l - m yst ica l . t ha t does Sll l ll t ' l h i 1 1 g ot her t han s i t o n i t s ass i 1 1 a m useu m .

I a m for a n art t ha t grows u p 1 1ol k now ing i t i s art a t a l l . a n art gh <·n t he cha nce of hav i ng a start ing point of zero .

I a m for an art t hat em broi l s i t se l f wi th t hl' e V!'ryday cra p lt. st i l l t·omt·s out on top.

I a m for an art t hat i m i t ates l hl' h u man . t hat is com ic . i f l l l'l't'ssa r � . or v iolent . or w hatever is necessa r y .

I a m for a n a r t t ha t t a kes i t s form f rom t he l i m·s o f l i fe i t sel f . t hat t w ists a11d extends and acc u m ulates and spits and d r i ps . ami is lwav� a mi t• oa rs<· and blunt and swt•t•l a mi st u pid a s l i fl' i tse l f .

I a m for an a r t ist w ho va n ishes. t u ru i ng u p i n a w h i t !' ca p pa i n t i n g s igns or h a l l ways.

I a m for a rt t hat cornt·s out of a c h i rn m·� l i ke hlat·k hair a mi sca l l l ' l"s in t he sk y .

I a m for ar t t hat spi l l s out o f a n old m a n ' s pursl' w hen ! I t' i s homH.·ed off a passing fender.

I a m for t he art out of a doggy ' s mou t h. fa l l i ng fi vl' s lori l's from t l w roof .

I am for t hl' art t hat a k id l icks . af ter !X'e l i 1 1 g away t he w ra ppt• r . I a m for an a rt t hat jogglt•s l i kt• everyones k m•l's , w hen t he bus traverses

an eX<:avat ion . I a m for art t ha t is smoked . l i ke a t' igarl ' l l f ' . smel ls , l i ke a pa i r of shot·s . I a m for art t hat fl a ps l i ke a flag, or lwl ps blow nost•s . l i ke a handkl'r­

c h ief . I a m for art t hat is put on and t akt·n off . l ike pa nts . w h ich develops

holes , l i ke sods , which is eaten , l i ke a pit•ce of pie. or a ba11doned w i t h great contempt , l ike a piece o f s h i t .

I am for art covered w i t h bandages . I a m fur art t hat l i m ps and rol ls and runs and j u m ps . I a m for art that comes i l l a can or washes u p on t he shore.

I a m for a rt that coi l s and grunts l i ke a w rest ler . I a m for art t hat sheds hair .

I a m for art you can sit on . I a m for a rt you can piek you r I I OSt' with or

stub you r tot•s 011 .

27. Claes Oldenburg, UngerU> Counter, 1 962 ( Ludwig Museum) in window nf Neu• ReaiLd f'�hihilion, Sidnf'y Janis Gallery , 1962. ( Photo: Ellf'ro fl. jolon•on )

am for art from a p« K'kt't. from dt't'P dta mu·l� of t he t'ar. from tlw

t'< lgt• of a knife . from tlw conwrs of the mouth. stuck in t ht' e� t' or woru on the wrist .

I am for art undt'r t ht' sk i rt s . a ml t he art of pi nchiug t'c K·kroadtes .

I am for the art o f l'ouversalion hdween tlw sidl·wa l k a ll<l a blind m aus metal slick.

I am for the art that grows in a pol. that comt•s down out of tht' skit•s at night . likt• l ightn i ng . that h idt's i n the douds aud growls . I am for art that b f1ippc.-d on and off \\ i t h a switch.

I am for art that unfolds likt• a map. that �ou t·an SC JUt•c.•zt• , l ike your swet'l ys arm. or k is.� . l ike a JX'l dog. \Vhkh e x pands and squeaks . l i ke au accord iou. which you can spill your d i n ner ort , l i ke an o ld tahledoth .

I am for an art that you can hamnwr with. sl i k h w i t h . sc.•w w ith. paste with. file with.

I am for an art that tells you lht• time of day . or wlwrt· such and suc h a

sl ret'! i s . I am for an art that helps old ladies across t lw strt•t'l.

I am for tht• art of tlw wash ing machine. I am for tlw art of a go\'eru ­mt•nt cht'(:k . I am for the art of last wars raincoat .

I am for the art that t·omt•s up i n fogs from st'Wt'r-holt•s i n wintc.·r. I am for the art that spl i t s wht'n you step on a frozt•n puddle. I a m for tht• worms art inside tht' applt• . I am for tht' art of sweat that devdops bt·­tween crossed legs.

I am for tht• ar t of Jlt 'ck - ha ir and cakt•d lea -cu ps . for the art lx·twl'l'll the tines of restaurant forks. for the odor of b oi l i ng d ishwalN.

I am for the art of sa il i ng on Sunday . and tht' a rt of rt'(l and w h i l l ' gasolim• pumps.

I am for the art of br ight hlut' factory columm and bl i n k i ng bisc.·uil signs.

I am for the art of dwap plaster and enamt' l . I am for the art of worn marble and smaslu"<l slate. I am for the art of roll i ug cobbleslmws and sliding sand. I am for the art of slag and hlat·k coal. I am for tlw art of dead birds.

I am for the art of scrall'hings i n the asphalt . daubing at tlw walls . I am for the art of lx·nding and kicking metal and hn·aking glass , and pu ll i ug at things to makt' tlwm fall down.

I am for tht• art of punching and skinnt'(l k nt'< 'S and sat-on bananas . I am for the a rt of kids' s nwlls . I am for tht• art of mama- hahblt•.

I am for the art of lmr-babhlt• , tooth- pick ing . bt•t•r-d r i n k i n g , egg-salt ing .

in -sult i ng . I am for tlw art of fall ing off a barstool.

1'01' MIT I() I

I am for t ht• a rt of underwea r and t he a rt of t a x ica b s . I a m for t hl' a rt ol ict•-crea m com•s d roppt'<l on concrelt• . I a m for t he majt-st ic a rt of do�­t ur d s . r i s in� l i ke cat llt"< lra ls .

I a m for t lw bl i n k i n� arts , l igh t i ng u p t lw n i � h t . I a m for a rt fa l l i u� . splash ing. w i ��l in� . j u m ping. going o n a n d off .

I a m for t he art of fat t ruck - t i res and black t•yt•s . I a m for Kool-art . 7 - l l P art . Pepsi-art . Suns h i r l t' ar t . :39 cen ts art . J. ')

n·n t s art . Vat ronol a rt . Dro-lxJm b art . Va m a rt . \lent l10l a rt . 1 . & \1 a rt . E x lax a rt . \'t•n ida art . l l t•an·n H i l l a rt , Pa m r y l a rt . Sa n -o- mP<I a rt . lh a rt . 9.99 art . :\ ow a rt . 1\ t•w a rt . How art . F i n· sa lt• art . Last Chance a rt . On l � a rt . Dia mond a rt . Tomorrow art . Franks a rt . Ducks a rt . \1t•a t -o- ra m a a rt .

I a m for t hl' ar t of bread wet by ra i n . I am for t he rats ' dance bd w t•t •n lloors . I am for t hl' art of fl ies wa l k ing on a sl ick 1x·a r in t he eled ric l i � h t . I a m for t he art of so�gy on ions and fi rm gn•t•n sluMlts . I a m for t ht• ar t of c l icking a mon� t lw n uts w hen t ht.• roadws comt• and go. I a m for t lw brown sad art of rot t i ng a pples .

I a m for t he art of mP<Jw ls and clatter of cat s and for t he a rt of t lwir dumb ded ril' t•yes.

I am for t ht• w h i h' a rt of n•frigerators a mi t lwir rn uS<.·ular open i n�s and closi ngs.

I am for t he art of rust and mold . I am for t ht• art of hea rts. fu rwra l ht>a rts o r swet•t ht•a rt ht.•a r ts . f u l l o f nougat . I a m for t he a rt o f woru mt•a t ­hfMJk s a n d s in�in� ba rrels o f red , w h i t e , b h w a n d yd low meat .

I a m for t ht• art of t h ings lost or t h rown away . com i ng home from sc hool . I a m for t lw a rt of coc·k-and-ba l l t rees a nd fl y ing cows and t he noise of rect an�lt•s a nd SC:JUa rt•s. I a m for t he a rt of crayons and wea k �n·y pt.·nci l - lead . and �ra i n y wash and st ick y oi l pa i n t . and t he art of w i nd­shidd w i pt.•rs a nd t lw a rt of t he finger on a cold w i ndow , on d ust y sh"<·l or i n t he bu bbles on t ht• sides of a batht ub.

I am for t ht· a rt of tt-dd y-bears and guns and dt•t·apitatP<.I rahhi ts . t ·x­plodt"<l u m brel las . ra1x'<l llt'ds. chairs w i t h t heir brown lxmt>s hrokt·n . burning t rt"t'S , fi n·<.·rat.•kt•r t•nds . t·h i<.·kt•n lxmt-s . pigt.•on hones and I M IXt's w i t h mt•n sleepin� in t l ll'm .

I am for t he a rt of s l igh t l y rot ten funNal flowers. h ung blood y rahhi ts and w ri n k l y yel low ch ickens. bass drums & t a m hourint>s , and plast ic pho­no �raphs.

I a m for t lw art of aba ndoned lx1xes . t it'<l l i kt• pharaohs. I am for a n art of \\ atertanks and sJx't·d ing douds and fla ppi ng shades.

I am for l" .S. Covt•rnment l nsJX'dftl A rt . Cradt• :\ art . Rt·gular l'ril't'

J02 A M F II ICA N A IIT ISTS 0"' ARl

art . Yel low R i JX' art . E x t ra Fancy a rt . Head y -to-eat art . Best -for-less a rt . Read y -to-cook art . F u l l y cleaned art . Spt·nd Less ar t . Eat Bet ter a rt . H a m art . pork a rt . ch icken a r t . tomato art . ba nana art . a pple art . t u rkey a rt . ca ke a rt , cook i t• art .

ROY LICHTENSTEIN < 1923-

Lichtenstei n 's un publ ished statenwnt about Pop a rt dates from t he same t i me as Gem· Swenson 's i n t erviews . I n crisp. st ra i g h t forward lan­guage , t he most classic of t ht• Pop a rt ists presen t s an ar t -h istorica l l y in formed a n d i l l u m i na t i n g anal ysis o f t he ( t hen ) s o d isturbi n g l y new a rt id iom and its i m pl icat ions.

* * * Tal k given at College Art Assor.iation a n n u a l meeting, Phi ladelphia , January

1964

A l t hough t hen· was never an at tempt on t he part of Pop a rt ists to form a movement (in faet i n 1 96 1 wry few of t hese art ists k new eat·h ot her or were fa m i l iar w i t h each other's work ) . t here dot•s seem to have heen sonw

cri t ical poin t demand ing ex pression w h ich brought us to df'pa rt from w hatever d i rect ions we wt•n• pursu ing and to movt• toward some com ­ment involving t he com mercial asped of our e n v i ronmen t .

Tht•n• are m a n y ways o f l <KJk ing a t a phenomenon . o f cou rse , pa rt icu­lar ly a phenomt•non as a morphous as an art movemen t . and t here a re many levds on w h ich it can he d iscussed . I ' m not sure an art ist would have any more insigh t . t ha t he could ex press in words. t han a cri t ic or an historia n . But let me d iscuss one as1x·ct t hat comes to my m i nd .

Aside from a l l o f t he i n fl uences "'· h ich ont• ca n t h i n k of . a n d I have i n m i nd movemt•nts and act ual a rt prod uets such a s t he t h n·e-d i mensiona l Absin t he-G lass of Picasso, t he Pu rist pa i n t i n g of Ozen fa n t and Lt• Corbu­sier, t he use of act ual common objects i n col l age . tht' Dada movemeut . t he pa i n t i ngs of Stuart Dav is . t he pa i n t i ngs of U'·ger . t he beer cans, ta rgets and flags of Jasper Johns . t he col lages of Ha use hen lx·rg. t hl' use of :\ nlt'r i ­can objects i n t he hapjX•n ings of K a prow . Oldenburg . Dine. W h i t m an . Sa maras and ot lwrs. Aside from a l l t lwsl' dt•eided i n fl uences. and i n fl u­ences t hey were-part icular ly t he ha p1x•n i ngs and en v i r on ments . s ince lxJth Oldenburg and Dine proeeedt·d d i rect l y from ha p1x•n ings to Pop A rt - i t is at another lt•vd t hat I w ish to deser i lx· t hl' t•mergem·t· of Pop Art .

Pop may lx· St'en as a pnxl ud of t wo t went it' l h cen t u ry l t ·udenl' i t ·s : one

1'01' \ li T J (),'J

f rom t he outside-t he subject m a t h•r ; and t he ot lwr f rom w i t h i n -a n l'S­t het il' sensi bi l i t y . The su bject mal t t·r . of course . is commercia l ism and com mercia l art ; hut i t s con t r i but ion is t he isolat ion and �lorifica t ion of ' " T h i n g . " Com merc ia l a rt is not our ar t . i t is our su bject m a l ter ami in t lwt scnst · i t is nat u re ; but i t is considered com pl<'h· ly a t odds w i t h t lw major d i rect ion of a rt d ur i ng and si nce t he Rena issa nct· a mi pa rt icu lar ly a t odd s w i t h our d i n,ct l y preced i n g movt·men t - A hst ract E x pression ism . Com ­nlt ' re ia l art runs con t rary to a major art c u r n·nt i n t he St'nse t hat it con­cl ' l l t ra t t·s on t h ing ra t he r t ha n erwiru n m c n t : 01 1 figure rat her t h a n J.!TOII IIJ.

The est het ic sensibi l i t y to w h ich I rder is a n t i -st�nsibi l i t y -appa rc n l a n t i -sensi bi l i t y . A n t i -sensibi l i t y obv iousl y i s at odds w i t h such t'OIH.' u rrt•nt and f r iend l ier a l t i t udes as con t e m plat ion . n uaJH.'t' . m y sh·ry a mi Zen . d e . l l i s torical exam ples of a n t i -sens i bi l i t y a r t -even recent exam ples-a n•

hard to IX> in t to . The a n t i -sl'ns ih i l i t y fa'r·adt' fades and t he sensi hi l i t i t•s preva i l . Rut if wt• t·a n renw m l x•r our fi rst con f ron t a t ion w i t h cer t a i n mod ­l 'r l l works. t he m•wt·r work seem s dwa JX'IIt'<l . inst•ns i t i vt• , brash a nd ba rba­rous . It is not t ht• rouglwr pa i n t hand l i n g I refer to. hut a ppa rt•nt lack of n u a nt·t· and adjust men t : for i nstance, our fi rst look a t Lcs De moiselle.� cl':kignon of Pkasso. or our fi rst look at \lond r ian or Pol l ock . or i f wt• com pa n· a Cubist col lage or a Fra n z K l i ne w i t h a l most any old mastN pa i n t ing . Com pa re a Da u m ier w i t h a Rol t il'el l i . Courbt' l ' s aud it·un· saw h i m as brash and ar t less in t he m id - n i nl'leen t h n·n t u ry and \'a n Cogh and t he Fa u vt·s of course were seen i n t h is l i g h t . But t he m< xlt•rn works re­ferred to here a re not pri m a r i l y a n t i -sensi bi l i t y ar t-t ht•y represent m a n y ot her qua l i t ies; h u t t hey do con t a i n a h i t o f t h is element w h ich i s mort• s t rongly rq>rPst>nted i n Pop A r t .

B u t works o f a rt ca n not rea l l y ht• t he pro d ud o f b lunted sensi bi l i t ies-i t i s o n l y a st y le or post u re . I t i s . howeve r . t he rea l qua l i t y of our su hjed m a t ter-t he part icular aw kward . bizarre and t'X(x•d it•nt nmunerdal ar t st y l t•s w h ich Pop A rt rdt•rs to and a m p l i fies . Si nce works of a r t cannot n·a l l y l �t• t he pnxl uct of blunt ed sensi bi l i t ies. what sc<'ms a t fi rst to ht• brash and ba rba rous t u rns in t i me to dar ing and st rPngt h . and t ht' con ­Ct'a l l'd subt let i<'s som1 beconw a ppa rent .

A n t i -sensi bi l i t v i s t he stance most cha racterist ic , I t h i n k . o f recl'nt a rt i n t h<' sense t hat i t i s most u n l i ke t he Renaissance tendendes o f t rans i t ion . lo�ica l unfold ing. pu qx,seful n uanl't' , and elegance. A l t hough t lw a n t i ­st·mibi l i t i t•s sta nce apJX'a rs a s m i ndless . mechauica l . gross a n d abrupt or a s d i recl t ·d b y prior or non-art decis ions, i t s rt•al ml'an ing, I fee l . l ies i n t he a r t i s t ' s pt•rs1ma l st•nsat ion of pNforrn ing a d i ffi c u l t feat of bravado w h i l e rl'a l l y res pt•l'l ing a l l o f t he sensi bi l i t ies. This is i t s mean ing i f i t is s uccess­f u l - i n Pop Art or any ot her st y le .

I t may a lso have ot her mea n i ngs: Rrassy cou rage . compet i t ion w i t h t he

visual objt'ds of modt•rn l ife. na ive :\ nwrican freshness, a mi so on. In a st ra irwd analogous way perhaps we can St't' t he t wt'n t iet h et•nt ury

t t'ndt•ncy t owa rd anti -St.•ns i b i l i t y in a rt joining t hP rt•ad y m mle real insensi­bi l i t y of our t·ornmercia l t•n viron mt•nt to form Pop A rt .

6

M i n i mal Art

DONALD JUDD ( 1 928-

E xcerpted from Dona ld Judd, " Specific Object s , " Arts Yesrbook 8 ( 1 965)

J udd 's "Spt'<.· ifk Ohjt't·t s" was t ht' fi rst major a rt icle by ont• of till' ori�i ­na lors of " m i n i ma l i s m " dt•s<:ribin� t ht· k i nd of work �Kill to lx· �i \'t 'n t hat name. l l is bare fad pr�· . � > a ppropr ialt' to t ht> work i n qut'st ion . was fa m i l iar to readt•rs of Arts maga z i n e . for w h ich !It' rt'�ular ly w roh· rt'\' it•ws from 1 959 to 1 965 . • "Spt•d fic Ohjt•d s" ap1x·a red on l y a few m o n t hs lx·fort• t he ground -brea k i n � e x h i b i t ion Prima ry S t ruct u res:

You nger A merica n a nd Brit isl1 Sculptors at t ht' Jew ish \l ust•um . :\ t·w York . of A pr i i-Jum• H J66. K y naston McSh i rw's t i t le for the k i nd of work he brought to!wt llt' r as an t•mt>rg ing movt•ment was less a p1x·a l ing t ha n the more nega t i vt'-sound ing " m i n i ma l a rt ' ' to t lw art publ il' . hy w hom and for w hom nt'w d irt'<.·t ions a re la iK·It'd .

The fi rst i l l ust rat ion i n J udd's art icle was Olden huq.(s Soft Ugh t S rdtches. 1 964 , t hert·by u nderl i n ing a fad t hat every st' f ious l'O i l tt' m ­porary a r t st udent should recognize : Pop a n d m in i m a l a rt have many t · lt ·ments i n <·ommon . espt't·ia l ly t he powt'rf u l redud ion . t he orJt•nt•ss ,

t lw inheren t . mon umenta l st y lt> , and t he ust• of nt>w matt'f ia ls . em hrac­in� factory prod uct ion .

* * * l l a l f or mort• of t he ht•st new work in t ht' last few n•a rs has het'n nei -

t ll l ' r pa i n t i ng nor scul pt ur t• . Usua l l y it has bt>t·n related . clost• l y or d i sta n t ­l y . t o one o r t ht' ot her . Tht• work is d i verse. a n d rn udt i n i t t hat is not i n pa i n t i ng a n d st· u lptun• is a l � > d i vt>rst• . But t ht•rt• a re somt• t h i ngs t hat t K'­cur nea rl y in com mon . . .

Th .. ohjt><:t ions to pa int in� and sc u l pt ur e are goi ng to sound mort• in tol ­t· ra nt t han t hey a r e . Tllt'rt' are qua l i ficat ions. The d is interest i n pa i n t ing a nd st· ul pt u re is a d is inlt•rt•st i n doing i t aga i n . not i n i t as i t is being dorw h� I ho�· w ho devdopcd I ht' last ad va nct'd wrsions . . . .

The m a i n t h i ng w rong w i t h pa i n t i n� is t ha i i t is a rt•d a ngular plane plan·d flat aga i nst t he wa l l . A rect angle is a sha 1x · i tst• l f ; it is obv iously t ht•

· s..., Donald J udd. ComJilrlr Writings, /9.511- /97.5. l l a l i fa, !'ova S..·ul ia Coll.-gt• of :\ rl . •md � •. ...,. York r-.;, • ...,. York l ' n i \'t'ni ly Prf'"-'· HJ7f;

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