david lee panel discussion 083109

8/3/2019 David Lee Panel Discussion 083109

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What is Next for the GreaterWhat is Next for the Greater

Milwaukee Watersheds?Milwaukee Watersheds?

The Future of the SoutheasternThe Future of the Southeastern

Wisconsin Watersheds TrustWisconsin Watersheds Trust

-- A Business PerspectiveA Business Perspective

David Lee, P.E.

We Energies

Clean Rivers, Clean Lake VI

August 31, 2009


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SWWTSWWT Business PerspectiveBusiness Perspective

Overarching view:Overarching view:

Water quality improvements, over the past almostWater quality improvements, over the past almost

4 decades since enactment of the CWA, have been4 decades since enactment of the CWA, have beenprimarily due to the financial resources directedprimarily due to the financial resources directed

toward point source controls.toward point source controls.

For about the past 2 decadesFor about the past 2 decades wide recognitionwide recognitionthat nonthat non--point sources controls would be the mostpoint sources controls would be the mostcostcost--effective means of improving water quality.effective means of improving water quality.


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Industrial wastewater treatment and pretreatmentIndustrial wastewater treatment and pretreatment

systems have been successfully operated since thesystems have been successfully operated since the1970s.1970s.

Storm water management/erosion control plansStorm water management/erosion control plansare implemented for nearly all constructionare implemented for nearly all construction

projects and for most operating industrial facilities.projects and for most operating industrial facilities.


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Overarching view:Overarching view: Air emission control systems also have reducedAir emission control systems also have reduced

the atmospheric loading of pollutants tothe atmospheric loading of pollutants towaterways.waterways.

Land quality programs are generally mature,Land quality programs are generally mature,

incorporating recycling, beneficial resuse (e.g.,incorporating recycling, beneficial resuse (e.g.,fly ash use in concrete), groundwater monitoringfly ash use in concrete), groundwater monitoringand advanced landfill design requirements.and advanced landfill design requirements.


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We are often in situations of being at a point ofWe are often in situations of being at a point ofdiminishing returns for environmental controldiminishing returns for environmental controlinvestments.investments.


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ExampleExample Pollutant reduction of 99.9%Pollutant reduction of 99.9%Discharge reduced to about 0.1 lb/year =>Discharge reduced to about 0.1 lb/year =>

Annualized cost of about $25,000/lb removedAnnualized cost of about $25,000/lb removed

To remove remaining 0.1 lb/year =>To remove remaining 0.1 lb/year =>

Annualized cost = $20,000,000/lb removedAnnualized cost = $20,000,000/lb removed

10001000 10001000 1000 situation1000 situation


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We sometimes find our selves in situationsWe sometimes find our selves in situations

where expectations and reality are out of synch:where expectations and reality are out of synch:

ExampleExample Emission reductions from solar andEmission reductions from solar andwind power projects are less than expected.wind power projects are less than expected.Study in ES&T reported that such projects wereStudy in ES&T reported that such projects were

only achieving about 30only achieving about 30--50% of expected NOx50% of expected NOx

emissions. [emissions. [Note that many renewable energy sources needNote that many renewable energy sources needto backedto backed--up w/fossil fueled sources.]up w/fossil fueled sources.]


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Why SWWTWhy SWWT I dontI dont know,know, but heres what Ibut heres what I thinkthink

SWWTSWWT can facilitate:can facilitate:

Collectively, we need to figure out the most costCollectively, we need to figure out the most cost--effectiveeffectivestrategy to get at the remaining low hanging fruit.strategy to get at the remaining low hanging fruit.

Collectively, we need to openly communicate to alignCollectively, we need to openly communicate to alignexpectations with reality.expectations with reality.

Collectively, we need to work toward law and policyCollectively, we need to work toward law and policychanges that encourage collaboration to most efffectivelychanges that encourage collaboration to most efffectivelyspend the next environmental control dollar.spend the next environmental control dollar.


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Elaborating on the last point,

TMDL program use should be the exception.

My viewMy view this program has evolved intothis program has evolved intosomething that is far beyond what Congress likelysomething that is far beyond what Congress likely

envisioned in 1972.envisioned in 1972.

It is complex, difficult to implement and probablyIt is complex, difficult to implement and probablytoo narrow (impaired water focus) a regulatorytoo narrow (impaired water focus) a regulatoryprogram to suit our purposes.program to suit our purposes.


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Take theTake the Friends of Pinto Creek v. EPAFriends of Pinto Creek v. EPA as an example.as an example.

In concept, this sounds like something that shouldIn concept, this sounds like something that shouldhave workedhave worked an NPDES permit for a newan NPDES permit for a new

discharge, into an impaired water subject to adischarge, into an impaired water subject to a

TMDL, required the company to more than offsetTMDL, required the company to more than offsetits new pollutant load by implementing a cleanits new pollutant load by implementing a clean--upup

at an upstream abandoned mine.at an upstream abandoned mine.


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Friends of Pinto Creek v. EPAFriends of Pinto Creek v. EPA ::

Environmental groups challenged EPAsEnvironmental groups challenged EPAsdetermination, and, in 2007, the Ninth Circuitdetermination, and, in 2007, the Ninth Circuit

Court of Appeals ruled against EPA, specificallyCourt of Appeals ruled against EPA, specifically

rejecting the offset approach because the permitrejecting the offset approach because the permitdid not include a compliance schedule to ensuredid not include a compliance schedule to ensure

achievement of water quality standards.achievement of water quality standards.


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We think in generalities,We think in generalities,

but we live in detail.but we live in detail.

Alfred North Whitehead, British mathematicianAlfred North Whitehead, British mathematicianand philosopher, (1861and philosopher, (1861 -- 1947).1947).

david lee panel discussion 083109

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