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159

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159

CONVERSATIONSDarren P. Mckeeman

Bruce Sterling,

coauthor of

The Difference Engine,

is currently

writing a nonfiction

book about

computer hacking.

HACK TOTHE FUTUREI first corresponded with

Bruce Sterling when the Elec

tronic Frontiers Foundation re

ferred him to me for sources

on his latest book project. Re

cently, I spoke with him about

his work and his ideas regard

ing writing and hacking.

COMPUTE: What is your new

book going to be called?

Bruce Sterling: It's called, ten

tatively, The Hacker Crack

down: The True Story of the Dig

ital Dragnet of 1990 and the

Start of the Electronic FrontiersFoundation.

C: What prompted you to

write about this?

Sterling: it was the [Steve] Jack

son bust. . . . The Chicago

Computer Fraud task force

showed up in town . . . pur

suing L.O.D. [Legion of

Doom] people and fringe

L.O.D. people, and they

came down hard on [two al

leged hackers]. They were in

such a hurry that they went in

and seized Steve Jackson's

stuff, too, and Jackson didn't

have anything to do with

this. . . .Anybody could have

told you that Steve Jackson

was not into carding [using oth

er people's calling card num

bers], he was not a code kid

[a person who sells long dis

tance codes], he was not a soft

ware pirate. . . . They were try

ing to swat out a prairie fire.

C: Why do you think the public

is so afraid of hackers?

Sterling: I think they are very

afraid of computer hackers,

but I think mostly they are

afraid of computers. A comput

er hacker puts the face on the

menace that is represented by

computers. I mean, I am afraid

160 COMPUTE NOVEMBER 1991

of computers. . . . I'mnotcom-

puterphobic; I'm rationally afraid

of computers. Computers are a

challenge and a threat, and

they're changing our society in

ways that we can't control and

don't understand. They're not

to be trusted.

C: What would your definition

of computer hacker be?

Sterling: I would say that if you

were really a computer hack

er, there would have to be

some sort of intellectual curi

osity about what you were do

ing. In other words, you're not

just a code thief. . . . There

are people running call cell op

erations [calling card fraud]

whom I wouldn't call comput

er hackers per se, but they

have everything a hacker

[has]. They've got a Commo

dore, and they've got a mo

dem, and they've got codes,

and they've got teenagers

working for them, and they've

got a subscription to 2600 [an

underground magazine devot

ed to hacking], and they've

got police that hate their guts.

So what are you going to allow

here, a blood test?

C: What is the difference be

tween computer hackers and

the guy at the office who uses

the computer to transfer a few

bucks into his account or the

guy into coding?

Sterling: There are appeals to

the things that computer hack

ers do, and [it isn't] money. It's

not the ability to embezzle

funds. That's not the major

kick. The major kick of hack

ing is power.

C: Do you think computer hack

ing should be outlawed?

Sterling: No, I don't really

think it should. I think there

ought to be laws against code

theft and such, and I think

that "the heat" are probably

right when they say it's getting

worse, and maybe ten years

ago it was the sort of thing

that got done in college

dorms. But now there are

guys from, say, Pakistan, who

shoulder surf [run programs at

phone booths from laptops] at

airports and sell codes and

stuff. I don't think that ought to

be legal.

C: What does the future have

in store for computer hacking ?

Sterling: As far as I'm con

cerned, computer hacking

has already had its Summer of

Love. And now you're going to

see more and more people do

ing the sort of things people

did who were in L.O.D. in

1985 or 1986, except these

[people] are going to be so un

savory, man.

C: What do you think of the

word cyberpunk being used

to describe hackers?

Sterling: I think it's very regret

table. [Cyberpunk] is a literary/

critical term. The idea that it

would be used in this form

sort of shows the basic igno

rance of the science fiction mi

lieu that's akin to the kind of

ignorance that involves having

Steve Jackson get busted. If

he hadn't been making a

game called Cyberpunk, this

innocent guy would not have

been struck down on his own

property by agents of the fed

eral government, not to men

tion the state of Illinois and

Bell. Tagging people with line

names, I guess it's useful, but

not if it provokes some kind of

knee-Jerk reflex. I recognize it

as a fait accompli: I'm not go

ing to sue—not that I would—

but I also recognize it is not a

thing that is entirely without jus

tice. The books we write do

deal extensively with comput

er crime, and a lot of the char

acters do exhibit very militant

antisocial attitudes, □

CONVERSATIONS

Bruce Sterling, coauthor 01

The DiHerence Engine, is currenll~

writing a nonfiction book about

computer hacking.

Darren P. Mckeeman

HACK TO THE FUTURE I first corresponded with Bruce Sterling when the Elec­tronic Frontiers Foundation re­ferred him to me for sources on his latest book project. Re­cently. I spoke with him about his work and his ideas regard­ing writing and hacking.

COMPUTE: What is your new book going to be called?

Bruce Sterling: It 's ca lled, ten­tatively, The Hacker Crack­down: The True Story of the Dig­ital Dragnet of 1990 and the Start of the Electronic Frontiers Foundation.

C: What prompted you to write about this?

Sterling: It was the [Steve] Jack­son bust. . The Chicago Computer Fraud task force showed up in town ... pur­su ing l.O.D. [Leg ion of Doom] people and fringe l.O.D. people , and they came down hard on [two al­leged hackers] . They were in such a hurry that they went in and seized Steve Jackson 's stuff, too, and Jackson didn't have anything to do with this.. . Anybody could have told you thai Steve Jackson was not into carding [using oth­er people's calling card num­bers], he was not a code kid [a person who sells long dis­tance codes], he was not a soft­ware pirate .... They were try­ing to swat out a prairie fire .

C: Why do you think the public is so afraid of hackers?

Sterling : I think they are very afraid of computer hackers, but t think mostly they are afraid of computers. A comput­er hacker puts the face on the menace that is represented by computers. I mean, I am afraid

160 COMPUTE NOVEMBER 1991

of computers. . . . I'm not com­puterphobic; I'm rationally afraid of computers. Computers are a challenge and a threat, and they're changing our society in ways that we can't control and don't understand. They're not to be trusted.

C: What would your definition of computer hacker be?

Sterling: I would say that if you were really a computer hack­er, there would have to be some sort of intellectual curi­osi ty about what you were do­ing. In other words, you're not just a code thief. ... There are people running call cell op­erations [call ing card fraud] whom I wouldn' t call comput­er hackers per se, but they have everything a hacker [has]. They've got a Commo­dore, and they've got a mo­dem, and they've got codes, and they've got teenagers working for them, and they've got a subscription to 2600 [an underground magazine devot­ed to hacking], and they've got police that hate their guts. So what are you going to allow here, a blood test?

C: What is the difference be­tween computer hackers and the guy at the office who uses the computer to transfer a few bucks into his account or the guy into coding?

Sterling : There are appeals to the things that computer hack­ers do, and [it isn't] money. It 's not the abil ity to embezzle funds. That's not the major kick. The major kick of hack­ing is power

C: 00 you think computer hack­ing should be outlawed?

Sterling : No, I don ' t really think it should. I think there ought to be laws against code theft and such , and I think that " the heat" are probably

right when they say it's getting worse, and maybe ten years ago it was the sort of thing that got done in college dorms. But now there are guys from, say, Pakistan, who shoulder surf [run programs at phone booths from laptops] at airports and sell codes and stuff. I don't think that ought to be legal.

C: What does the future have in store for computer hacking?

Sterling : As far as I'm con­cerned, compute r hacking has already had its Summer of Love. And now you're going to see more and more people do­ing the sort of things people did who were in L.O.D. in 1985 or 1986, except these [people] are going to be so un­savory, man.

C: What do you think of the word cyberpunk being used to describe hackers?

Sterling: I think it's very regret­table. [Cyberpunk] is a literaryl critical term. The idea that it would be used in this form sort of shows the basic igno­rance of the science fiction mi­lieu that's akin to the kind of ignorance that involves having Steve Jackson get busted. If he hadn 't been making a game called Cyberpunk, this innocent guy would not have been struck down on his own property by agents of the fed­eral government, not to men­tion the state of Illinois and Bell. Tagging people with line names, I guess it's useful, but not if it provokes some kind of knee-jerk reflex. I recognize it as a fait accompli; I'm not go­ing to sue-not that I would­but I also recognize it is not a thing that is entirely without jus­tice. The books we write do deal extensively with comput­er crime, and a lot of the char­acters do exhibit very militant antisocial attitudes. 0

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your home otlce D wcrtmg in olfice outeKte home □

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Circle 101 lor a on«-yBBf new subsenpoon lo COMPUTE You wfl Oe WteO lot S1297

E.clra;lm date 12-31-91

USE THIS CARD TO REQUEST COMPUTE'S FREE PRODUCT INFORMATION SERVICE '" '" '" , .. , .. , .. ". '" '" '" ,,. '" FREE INFORMAnON ABOUT '" '" '" '" '" '" Name ". ". ". ,., ,., '" PRODUCTS ADVERnSED , , ..

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'DITKAWASOUTTO KICKBUTT

AND TAKE NAMES.HE DIDN'T JUST WANTTO WIN. HE WANTED TO POUND HISopponent into submission. don't hold back. never ease

up. that's how he played. that's how he coaches his

chicago bears." nothing less than

the ultimate. that's the philosophy

of mike ditka. that's the secret

behind his new football

game. mike ditka ultimate

football: is the only new

pc football game out this

season. and pound(ing)

for pound(ing) it beats up

the competition. but hey,

don't take our word for it.

check out the stats for

yourself. * big and bold

256 color vga graphics*

stunning player anima

tion * 28 pro teams to

choose from * 32-man

rosters; variable skill

levels; substitutions • 4

passing modes: real time or

stop action, with user or

computer assisted receivers

* ear pounding digitized

speech and sound effects ♦ practice mode for all plays, k1ckoff returns, field

goals • booh field goals with ditka's exclusive power bar1"kicking game. hear the

calls of referee jim tunney, a 31 year veteran of the nfl wars. pick apart your oppo

nent with plays you design or call on the 132-play playbook.watch instant replays

from fovs different angles. bottom line? ditka delivers superior graphics, game-

play and realism.truly the ultimate blend of action, strategy and total control,

to order, visit your local retailer or call 1-800-245-7744. \ fh

hEIUA£!J.LAW

THE BEST IN ENTERTAINMENT SOFTWARE"

Actual game screens from IBM PC VGA version of the game Other screens may vary IBM isa registered trademark of International Business Machines, Inc. Mike Ditka Ultimate Football is a trademark of Accclade. InC 1991 Accolade, Inc. All rights reserved All product and corporate names are Irailemarksand icRislered I radem at ks of 1 heir respective owners.

Circle Reader Service Number 203

"

OUT TO IUCI{ BUTT AND TAI{E NAMES. HE DIDN'T JUST WANT TO WIN. HE WANTED TO POUND HIS OPPONENT INTO SUBMISSION. DON'T HOLD BACK. NEVER EASE UP. THAT'S HOW HE PLll.YED. THAT'S HOW HE COACHES HIS CHICAGO BEII.RS ~" NOTHING LESS THAN THE ULTIMII.TE. THll.T'S THE PHILOSOPHY OF MIKE DITKA. THIIT'S THE SECRET BEHIND HIS NEW FOOTBALL GAME. MIKE DITKA ULTIMATE FOOTBALL~ IS THE ONLY NEW PC FOOTBALL GAME OUT THIS SEASON. AND POUND(JNG) FOR POUND(JNG) IT BEIITS UP THE COMPETITION. BUT HEY;

DON'T TII.KI OUR WORD FOR IT. CHECK OUT THE STATS FOR

YOURSELF .• BIG II.JiD BOLD 256 COLOR VGA GRll.PHlCS •

STUNNING PLAYER ANIMA· TION • 28 PRO TEAMS TO

CHOOSE FROM' 32 · MAN ROSTERS ; VII.RIII.BLE SKILL LEVELS; SUBSTITUTIONS' 4 PASSING MODES: REII.L TIME OR STOP ACTION, WITH USER OR COMPUTER ASSISTED RECEIVERS • EAR POUNDING DIGITIZED

SPEECH II.JiD SOUND EFFECTS • PRll.CTICE MODE FOR II.LL PLAYS, KICKOFF RETURNS, FIELD GOII.LS • BOOM FIELD GOII.LS WITH DITKII.'S EXCLUSIVE POWER BII.R" KICKING GIIME. HEII.R THE CII.LLS OF REFEREE /1M TlJNNEY; A 31 YEII.R VETERlI.N OF THE NFL WII.RS. PICK II.PIIRT YOUR OPPO· NENT WITH PLAYS YOU DESIGN OR CII.LL ON THE 132·PLll.Y PLII.YBOOK. WIITCH INSTlINT REPLll.YS FROM roUR DDTERENT II.NGLES. BOTTOM LINE? DITHII. DELIVERS SUPERIOR GRll.PHlCS, GIIME· PLll.Y II.JiD REllLlSM. TRULY THE ULTlMll.TE BLEND OF ACTION, STRII.TEGY II.JiD TOTII.L CONTROL. TO ORDER, VISIT YOUR LOCII.L RETII.ILER OR CII.LL 1·800·245·7744. , rrr.1 'nr.:

~LL\Jl.rUJL

THE B ES T [ N E N T E R T A [ N MEN T S 0 F TWA R E"

"'CluII game sc.et'ns I,om IBM PC va ... w.tSOOft oll~e 8,me Olr.et SCtet'r>S m,y v.ry IB M is. 're'SletKllflatm""ollnl~l\IlIot\Il Bu"~ .. M.ch'fIH,lnc M I.e 001 .... Ullom"e rOOI~II Is. u'<lem"kol 4ccCI.oe,Inc c:. 1991 Accol'<le,lnc All roaMs reserve<! All prOOuct .n<!eGfPOr.'e I14mH.", If.llem.,""OO '''iI,Slt.Old If.atm'fksolll'1elr fl!'lo;>e<;ll~ownefl,

CIn::1e Reader Service Number 203

Almost too real.

REAL, \CTORS. —JOur most technically

ambitious game ever. Charactersvide< i-captured and animated forhard hitting realism.

XTION.Use authentic police

procedures if you want to survive.

So realistic, police departments usePolice Quest as a training tool.

Follow a dangerousand puzzling trail of crack deals andbrutal cult killings.

by Miami Vice'sJan Hammer

Get this Police Quest com

Only 6" long • fits in you glove compartment. Hard plastic body with super-bright krypton bulb.

To order, call 1-800-326-6654(outside the U.S., 209-683-4468)

Or bay Police Quest 3 from your software dealer and send us the original dated receipt.

Retail Price: $59.95Circle Reader Service Number 154