Northampton Charter Review Committee Councilor Jesse M. Adams (Vice-chair)

Colleen Currie (Secretary) Councilor Marianne L. LaBarge

Councilor David A. Murphy Alan Seewald (Chair)

Margaret Striebel Marc Warner

DECEMBER 8, 2010 - CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS - 7 P.M. PRESENT: JESSE ADAMS, COLLEEN CURRIE, MARIANNE LABARGE, ALAN SEEWALD, MARGARET STRIEBEL, MARC WARNER ABSENT: DAVID MURPHY ATTENDING: ADAM COHEN - VIDEOTAPING MEETING; WENDY FOXMYN; STEVE HERRELL; JOHN LIND MINUTES AGENDA 1. REVIEW AND APPROVE MINUTES FROM NOVEMBER 10, 2010 MEETING (5 MIN) COUNCILOR LABARGE MOVED TO APPROVE THE MINUTES. COUNCILOR ADAMS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY. 2. PUBLIC FORUM (1HR 50 MIN) MR. SEEWALD - HAD WHOLE SPEECH PREPARED FOR EVERYONE HERE JUST TO MAKE CLEAR WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE CHARTER, THE STRUCTURE OF GOVERNMENT, AND THE WAY OUR GOVERNMENT IS STRUCTURED HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE THAT HAS BEEN DECIDED, WHETHER YOU’RE HAPPY ABOUT IT OR UNHAPPY ABOUT IT. WITH THOSE GROUND RULES, I WOULD RECOGNIZE ANYONE FROM THE PUBLIC WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK.

STEVE HERRELL 474 ELM STREET - RESIDENT 32 YEARS THINKS IT’S GREAT CHARTER IS BEING RE-DONE. MAYOR SHOULD HAVE TERM OF 4 YEARS. TWO YEARS TOO SHORT TO ESTABLISH GOALS AND EXECUTE THEM. TERM LIMITS - TWO TERMS FOR MAYOR. SCHOOL COMMITTEE - MAYOR SHOULD NOT BE VOTING MEMBER OF SCHOOL COMMITTEE. GREATER POSSIBILITY OF TIE VOTES. MEMBERS ELECTED FOR THAT JOB. QUITE CAPABLE. MAYOR HAS TOO MUCH ELSE TO DO. CERTAINLY CAN BE INVITED, ESPECIALLY TO PROVIDE INFO ABOUT BUDGET. SCHOOL COMMITTEE MEMBERS UNDERPAID. MANY LONG MEETINGS, RESEARCH, STUDY. TERM [NAME] SHOULD BE CHANGED - BOARD OF EDUCATION OR SCHOOL BOARD. IMPORTANT JOB, SHOULD HAVE MORE DIGNIFIED NAME. WENDY FOXMYN FAIRWAY VILLAGE, LEEDS SERVED ON BEST PRACTICES COMMITTEE. SERVED ON MAYOR’S TASK FORCE ON HUMAN RIGHTS. FIRST LOOK AT CHARTER. A DISASTER OF A DOCUMENT. DIFFICULT TO GET THROUGH. A COMPLETE RE-DO NECESSARY. TRANSPARENCY/BEST PRACTICES/GOOD GOVERNMENT A CLEARER, MORE EASILY READ DOCUMENT IS NECESSARY. UNDERSTANDS WHY MAYOR ON SCHOOL COMMITTEE - BUDGET - POST-PROP 2 ½. BUT SOMETIMES THE WAY THINGS ARE ALWAYS DONE NEEDS TO CHANGE. STRONGLY SUPPORTS CHARTER COMMISSION - RE-DRAFT. MAYBE SOME SPECIFIC ISSUES INTERESTED IN GOVERNMENT. GREAT CITY DESERVES A GREAT CHARTER.

MR. SEEWALD ASKED: CLEAR CONSENSUS WE NEED A NEW CHARTER.

HOW TO PROCEED? BEST PRACTICES - CHARTER COMMISSION MAY BE MORE INCLUSIVE OF PUBLIC, BUT A VERY RIGID AND EXPENSIVE

PROCESS. SEES BOTH SIDES. DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION? MS. FOXMYN - UNDERSTANDS THERE ARE TWO METHODS.

COMMISSION EXPENSIVE ONLY BECAUSE OF EXPERT? MR. SEEWALD - TWO ELECTIONS; MAIL PROPOSED CHARTER TO EVERY HOUSEHOLD WHERE THERE IS A REGISTERED VOTER. MS. FOXMYN - HOW WOULD COMMITTEE DIFFER FROM COMMISSION? MR. SEEWALD - DIFFERENT STRUCTURE. APPOINTED BY CITY COUNCIL AND MAYOR. MS. FOXMYN - HOW WOULD THE COMMISSION BE DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU’VE DONE? MR. SEEWALD - WE HAVEN’T DONE ANYTHING EXCEPT IDENTIFY THAT A NEW CHARTER NEEDS TO BE DRAFTED. POLICY ISSUES NEEDS TO BE IRONED OUT. MAYOR CHAIRING CITY COUNCIL, CHAIRING SCHOOL COMMITTEE, TERM LIMITS, LENGTH OF TERMS, ETC. MS. FOXMYN - WITHOUT COMMISSION, WHAT’S NEXT STEP? MR. SEEWALD - CITY COUNCIL WOULD DETERMINE PROCESS. GENERALLY COUNCIL AND MAYOR APPOINTS COMMITTEE - WITHOUT FORMAL STRUCTURE OF COMMISSION - [LISTED PROCEDURES] COMMITTEE COULD DO STUDY, MAKE RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL, CITY COUNCIL REQUESTS SPECIAL ACT OF LEGISLATION. TYPICALLY LEGISLATURE REQUIRES CITIZENS’ VOTE BEFORE LEGISLATURE ACTS. MS. FOXMYN - DID YOU DISCUSS WITH MARILYN CONTRERAS? MR. SEEWALD - YES. SHE BROUGHT SOME FIGURES ABOUT NUMBER OF COMMUNITIES THAT HAD USED COMMISSION VERSUS COMMITTEE.

MS. FOXMYN - FROM BEST PRACTICES POINT OF VIEW - A DESIGN WITH BEST PRACTICES - BROAD COMMITTEE - BROADLY REPRESENTATION - MAYBE ONLY ONE COUNCILOR - BUILT IN PROCESS PUBLIC INVOLVEMENT FOR PUBLIC COMMENT - REASONABLE SCHEDULE - BUDGET - STAFFING. DON’T WANT TO DO ALL THE WORK AND NOT HAVE IT IMPLEMENTED. SHE HAS SPECIFIC COMMENTS, BUT SHE’D BE INTERESTED IN SERVING ON COMMITTEE OR RUNNING FOR COMMISSION, SO WOULD NOT WANT TO ADDRESS SPECIFIC ISSUES NOW. MR. WARNER - HE’S OF MIND THAT THIS COMMITTEE SHOULD BE MAKING POLICY RECOMMENDATION. HOPES AT LEAST WE’LL MAKE RECOMMENDATION FOR DIRECTION. NOT JUST THAT WE NEED NEW CHARTER. MR. SEEWALD - PROCESS THAT HAS BEST CHANCE MAY NOT BE PROCESS THAT’S MOST OPEN. MR. WARNER - LOOK AT PUBLIC RESPONSE IN THE PAST - VOTED DOWN. LOOK AT PUBLIC ATTENDANCE NOW. EDUCATION PROCESS. AT LEAST A CLEANER DOCUMENT. JOHN LIND - RYAN ROAD - STUDIED CHARTER MANY YEARS AGO. ELECTED TO FEDERAL POSITION - PERKINS GRANT - COMMISSION. WHEN HE WOULD MENTION HE WAS FROM NORTHAMPTON, WOULD BE RECOGNIZED AS LOCATION OF SMITH AGRICULTURAL-VOCATIONAL SCHOOL. THAT’S HOW HE GOT INTERESTED IN CHARTER. SMITH AGRICULTURAL-VOCATIONAL SCHOOL IN CHARTER. THREE ELECTED TO SCHOOL COMMITTEE - CALLED TRUSTEES - CONFUSION STARTED IN OLIVER SMITH WILL. REAL TRUSTEES ARE THOSE FOR CHARITY. “TRUSTEES” FOR SMITH AGRICULTURAL-VOCATIONAL SCHOOL ARE SUPERINTENDENTS. HAD BEEN CALLED DIRECTORS. RELEVANCE TO CHARTER, EDITING NEEDED SO INDIVIDUAL CITIZEN CAN NAVIGATE THE DOCUMENT AND FIND WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR. BUT WOULD LIKE TO SEE HISTORICAL ASPECTS KEPT AS THEY ARE, BUT EXPLAINED.

SOME SUMMERS IN SOUTHAMPTON, LONG ISLAND - ATTENDS CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS - IMPRESSED WITH WHAT THEY DO. BEFORE REVISION - WOULD LIKE EDUCATIONAL PROCESS RE FORMS OF GOVERNMENT AVAILABLE - LIKES WHAT GOES ON IN AMHERST. PROPONENT OF CHARTER COMMISSION. POOR TURNOUT LAST ELECTION. WOULD LIKE TO SEE EDUCATION. KNOWS MAILING IS EXPENSIVE. EACH VOTER SHOULD LOOK AT IT. SHOULD LAST US ANOTHER 100 YEARS. MODIFICATION METHODS SHOULD BE INCLUDED. AMENDMENTS CODIFIED. MAKE IT READABLE - ABLE TO FIND WHAT YOU’RE LOOKING FOR. ADAM COHEN - NORTH STREET, NORTHAMPTON SUPPORTS REVISING CHARTER FROM SCRATCH SUPPORTS TERM LIMITS FOR MAYOR - 8 YEARS MAYOR NOT CHAIRING CITY COUNCIL MAYOR NOT CHAIRING OF SCHOOL COMMITTEE CITY CLERK SHOULD BE ELECTED. NOT HAVING MAYOR APPOINT COMMITTEE MEMBERS. MAYBE A COMMITTEE OF CITY COUNCIL. ELECTIONS SYNCHRONIZED WITH FEDERAL ELECTIONS TO INCREASE PARTICIPATION. PAY CITY COUNCILORS MORE. CONCERNED ONE COUNCILOR’S SUGGESTION - MOVING PUBLIC COMMENTS TO LATER IN COUNCIL MEETINGS - PUBLIC CONVENIENCE SHOULD BE PRIORITY. MR. SEEWALD - COMMENT PERIOD COUNCIL ISSUE, NOT CHARTER ISSUE. MR. WARNER - WHY ELECT CITY CLERK? MR. COHEN - CHECKS AND BALANCES. SHOULD NOT INCREASE CONSIDERABLE POWER OF MAYOR. DO YOU DISAGREE?

MR. WARNER - IF ROLE IS PRIMARILY CUSTODIAL - PROFESSIONALISM - DON’T NEED VOTING BLOC/POPULARITY. ON THE OTHER HAND, IF THERE WERE A SITUATION WHERE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL COLLUDED TO SIPHON OFF ALL THE BUDGET FOR PERSONAL USE, AND NO ONE PRIVY TO THAT, MAY WANT TO HAVE SOMEONE OUTSIDE THAT CIRCLE. BUT THINKING WHICH SITUATION MORE LIKELY, CHECKS AND BALANCES MAY BE PROVIDED ELSEWHERE. MR. COHEN - PROFESSIONALISM OF CITY CLERK NOT A PROBLEM. BUT HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING ELECTED AND APPOINTED. RESPONSIBLE FOR KEEPING RECORDS, DISSEMINATING INFORMATION. CAN BE IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHAT’S IN RECORDS. CONTROVERSY IN PAST COUPLE OF YEARS. COUNCILOR LABARGE - CURRENT CLERK WANTS TO KEEP AS AN ELECTED POSITION. MR. SEEWALD - VAST MAJORITY OF MODERN CHARTERS ELIMINATE ELECTED POSITION OF THE CLERK. CLEAR MOVEMENT TOWARD APPOINTMENT - RECORDING KEEPING; STATUTORY; PROFESSIONAL POSITION. CONTROVERSY ALLUDED TO NOT AVERTED BY FACT THAT IT IS AN ELECTED POSITION. HE SEES BOTH SIDES OF ISSUES, BUT FAVORS PROFESSIONAL APPOINTMENT AS WITH ALL CITY DEPARTMENTS. MS. FOXMYN - NOT WEIGHING IN - JUST CLARIFYING - MUNICIPAL APPOINTMENTS ARE HIRING PROCESSES - NOT POLITICAL APPOINTMENTS. MR. SEEWALD - AGREES - ALSO NOT EASY TO REMOVE PUBLIC EMPLOYEES. USUALLY AN OVERLAY OF MUNICIPAL ORDINANCE. MR. HERRELL - THINKING OF U.S. CONSTITUTION - OVER 200 YEARS OLD - EVERYTHING LAID OUT AT BEGINNING - STILL THE SAME. THEN THERE ARE AMENDMENTS. CITY CHARTER - ALL THESE SUBNOTES - THIS WAS AMENDED, ETC., ETC. CAN’T IT JUST BE MORE ORDERLY? HAS BEEN SAID, BUT U.S. CONSTITUTION CAME TO MIND. MR. SEEWALD - NO QUESTION. INCLUDING HANDWRITTEN PORTION.

MR. SEEWALD READ LETTER FROM ERIC STAHLBERG III. [ATTACHED TO MINUTES.] COMMITTEE MEMBERS RECEIVED LETTER FROM MICHAEL P. CURRAN - HAD WORKED ON CHARTER IN PAST. MR. SEEWALD READ. [ATTACHED TO MINUTES.] MR. WARNER - SPOKE TO PAT GOGGINS - INVOLVED IN PAST CHARTER COMMISSION 1970'S AND 1995/1996. WOULD BE WILLING TO MEET WITH US. MR. SEEWALD - IF COMMITTEE WANTS TO MEET WITH HIM, WE COULD SET ASIDE TIME AT NEXT MEETING. MS. FOXMYN - DOES COMMITTEE HAVE DEADLINE? COUNCILOR ADAMS - MARCH. MR. SEEWALD - WOULD LIKE TO COMPLETE BY FEBRUARY. MS. FOXMYN - AGREES WITH MARC - THE COMMITTEE SHOULD MAKE RECOMMENDATION RE PROCESS - WHETHER COMMISSION OR COMMITTEE. MR. WARNER - HOW DID YOU HEAR ABOUT THIS? WHY ONLY THREE PEOPLE. MS. FOXMYN - SAME EXPERIENCE WITH BEST PRACTICES COMMITTEE. NEVER HAD THE DAILY HAMPSHIRE GAZETTE AT MEETINGS. SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE ATTENDED. DID MAJOR OUTREACH. YOU’RE UNDER THE RADAR; A FEW ARTICLES. ALSO IT’S COMPLICATED. LIKE CIVICS LESSONS. ADAM HAS BEEN FOLLOWING CITY GOVERNMENT. STEVE AND JOHN HAVE SERVED AND BEEN INVOLVED. ALSO IT’S FREEZING OUTSIDE TONIGHT. SHE’S INTERESTED. SHE WAS ON FRANKLIN COUNTY COMMISSION YEARS AGO. THREE COMMISSIONS IN 10 YEARS, LAST ONE FINALLY PASSED. COUNTY GOVERNMENT DISSOLVED. PEOPLE DIDN’T COME TO MEETINGS. MS. STRIEBEL - ISSUE SPECIFIC PARTICIPATION, NOT STRUCTURAL. MS. FOXMYN - BIGGEST ISSUE SHE RECALLS WAS WHETHER COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WOULD AUTOMATICALLY BE ON COUNCIL OF GOVERNMENTS.

MR. HERRELL - MARC’S LAST QUESTION. - HEARD CHRIS COLLINS TALK ABOUT IT A FEW TIMES. HE’S ALWAYS BEEN INTERESTED IN HOW PEOPLE DECIDE TO GOVERN THEMSELVES. PEOPLE IN TOWN - HE TALKED UP. HE’S APPALLED. THOUGHT ROOM WOULD BE FULL AND WE’D BE LIMITED TO 2 OR 3 MINUTES APIECE. MR. SEEWALD - WHERE DID YOU HEAR ABOUT FORUM? MR. HERRELL - CHRIS COLLINS - INTERVIEW. MR. SEEWALD - JOHN, WHERE DID YOU HEAR ABOUT IT? MR. LIND - BILL NEWMAN’S SHOW AND CHRIS COLLINS AND MONTE DEL MONTE. MR. SEEWALD - CLOSING PUBLIC FORUM MR. SEEWALD - PERHAPS IF A NICE SPRING EVENING, WITH PEOPLE STROLLING BY, MAY HAVE GOTTEN MORE. WHEN WE INVITED ALL PRESENT AND FORMER MAYOR, COUNCILORS, SCHOOL COMMITTEE, AND SMITH VOC TRUSTEES - ONLY GOT FIVE AT MEETING - MAYOR HIGGINS, COUNCIL PRESIDENT NARKIEWICZ, COUNCILOR PLASSMAN, AND FORMER COUNCILOR BARDSLEY. GOT GREAT INFORMATION. APPRECIATED THEM COMING OUT. MR. WARNER - IF IT WAS BETWEEN SPENDING X DOLLARS TO GET A NEW CHARTER, AND MUDDLING THROUGH WITH EXISTING CHARTER, WHERE WOULD YOU DRAW THE LINE, WHAT WOULD BE THE THRESHOLD AT WHICH YOU WOULD SAY IT WAS NOT WORTH IT, LET’S JUST MUDDLE THROUGH. MR. SEEWALD - WILL LET COUNCILORS ANSWER THAT. COUNCILOR ADAMS - DOLLAR AMOUNT? I DON’T KNOW WHAT DOLLAR AMOUNT IS. MR. SEEWALD - NOT GOING TO GET CHEAPER. WE NEED A NEW CHARTER. NEEDED IN 1971, 1985, .. NEED ONE NOW. IT’S UNWORKABLE. AND THERE ARE SPECIFIC ISSUES WHICH NEED TO BE CHANGED, E.G., BELIEVES MAYOR SHOULD NOT CHAIR COUNCIL MS. CURRIE - MAY I ASK JOHN - HOW TO EDUCATE PUBLIC? HOW TO GET THEM TO COME TO BE EDUCATED?

MR. LIND - NEED TO DO MAILING TO EVERY HOUSEHOLD. ALSO IT’S COLD, A WEDNESDAY NIGHT, 7 P.M. NEWSPAPER COVERAGE NOT THAT GOOD. RADIO O.K. MR. SEEWALD - WAS IN GAZETTE. MS. FOXMYN - WOULD SUGGEST OP-ED PAGE, WHETHER TO STATE A POSITION OR ALERT PEOPLE TO PROCESS. COUNCILOR LABARGE - PROBLEM GETTING REPORTERS TO MEETINGS COUNCILOR ADAMS - A TREMENDOUS WASTE TO MAIL - WON’T READ IT. MS. CURRIE - I UNDERSTAND MAILING PROPOSED CHARTER. MR. LIND - MAY NEED TO DO CALL FOR SUGGESTIONS. MR. SEEWALD - THIS MEETING WAS A CALL FOR SUGGESTIONS. MS. CURRIE - BESIDES GAZETTE AND RADIO, ALSO COUNCILORS POSTED ON THEIR WEBSITES, SENT TO WARD ASSOCIATIONS. I THINK IT’S NOT SEXY. MR. LIND - IF YOU WENT TO RECYCLING CENTER AND TALKED TO PEOPLE, MIGHT FIND OUT OTHERWISE. COUNCILOR ADAMS - WHAT CAN WE DO? MR. LIND - MAY BE A LOT OF REASONS PEOPLE NOT HERE. DOESN’T MEAN EFFORT LAX. TWENTY-NINE THOUSAND IN THE CITY. SOMETIMES ONE PERSON AT CITY COUNCIL; SOMETIMES 100 PEOPLE. MR. HERRELL - NOT IN CHARTER, BUT IF YOU SAID YOU WERE GETTING RID OF MAYOR, YOU’D GET PEOPLE. PEOPLE LOVE CITY - IT’S WORKING. MR. SEEWALD - THERE’S A WHOLE COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE WHO SAY MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL CAN’T DO ANYTHING RIGHT, WHO DON’T/DO NEED A NEW POLICE STATION, WE DON’T/DO NEED A HOTEL, WE DON’T/DO NEED A DAM. HIS CONCERN - NO ONE WOULD SHOW UP, OR A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD SHOW UP AND TALK ABOUT THINGS OUT OF PURVIEW. THERE IS AN INTEREST IN GOVERNMENT. SURPRISED TO HEAR PEOPLE DID NOT ATTEND BEST PRACTICES

MEETINGS. I SAID ON RADIO, IF YOU’RE INTERESTED IN BEST PRACTICES, YOU SHOULD BE INTERESTED IN THIS. MR. COHEN - MIGHT CONSIDER SURVEY ON-LINE, AND FREE FORM COMMENT AREA. SET FOR SPECIFIC TIME, STARTING SOON. MS. CURRIE - SEND TO WHOM? MR. COHEN - SAME NEWS AND DISTRIBUTION SOURCES YOU USED. GOOGLE HAS SURVERY AND GOOGLE GROUPS. MS. FOXMYN - DID WITH BEST PRACTICES; JUST DID WITH SOLID WASTE MANAGEMENT TASK FORCE. SEND OUT IN PRESS RELEASE. MR. HERRELL - GOOD IDEA. COULD HAVE SPECIFIC ISSUES AND ASK FOR RESPONSES. COUNCILOR LABARGE - PEOPLE WON’T COME TO PUBLIC COMMENT SESSIONS - FEEL DEGRADED; FELL ON DEAF EARS; BUT ALSO HEARS ABOUT ISSUES - LIKE JOHN HEARS AT RECYCLING CENTER. MR. LIND - RE COST OF MAILING - EDUCATIONAL PROCESS - OP-ED GOOD IDEA - NOT EVERYONE IS ON-LINE, EVEN A DEDICATED COMPUTER IN LIBRARY - STILL WON’T COME. HOLDING A DOCUMENT MAKES A DIFFERENCE. AND THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT DOCUMENT. COUNCILOR LABARGE - WARD 6 - A LOT OF RESIDENTS WITHOUT COMPUTERS. MR. SEEWALD - WILL BE FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO DEAL WITH. CLOSING PUBLIC FORUM. 3. ATTENDANCE AT NEXT MEETING (5 MIN) MR. SEEWALD - JANUARY 12 - ANYONE WHO CANNOT BE HERE? HE MAY BE IN TRIAL. COUNCILOR LABARGE - IF BAD WEATHER, WHO DECIDES CANCELLATION? COUNCILOR ADAMS - WOULD SUGGEST CANCELLING THE MEETING IF YOU (MR. SEEWALD) CAN’T BE HERE. VICE-CHAIR. COULD CHAIR MEETING. COULD DECIDE ABOUT MEETING BASED ON WEATHER DECISIONS. WOULD PREFER TO MOVE IT.

MR. SEEWALD - AGENDA FOR NEXT MEETING DEPENDS ON HOW MUCH WE COVER TONIGHT. IF WE HAVE OUTLINE OF RECOMMENDATIONS, AND MAGGIE COULD DRAFT REPORT, WE’D BE REVIEWING REPORT. NEED NOT BE A TOME. OUTLINE WHAT WE DID, WHAT WE RECOMMEND. MR. WARNER - GETS THE SENSE THERE WAS CONSENSUS BEFORE HE JOINED COMMITTEE NOT TO GET INTO BROAD POLICY CONSIDERATIONS, BUT THINKS WE SHOULD HAVE A DEBATE ABOUT WHICH PROCEDURE SHOULD BE USED TO REVISE THE CHARTER. MS. CURRIE - I THOUGHT WE HAD THE DEBATE. TWO WAYS TO DO IT. PEOPLE CAN DECIDE BETWEEN THE TWO. WE CAN MAKE A RECOMMENDATION. DON’T BELIEVE WE NEED TO GO OVER THEM AGAIN. DISCUSSION ABOUT WHEN REPORT WOULD BE READY FOR US TO REVIEW, WHEN NEXT MEETING SHOULD BE. JANUARY 12 CANCELLED; RESCHEDULED FOR JANUARY 5. 4. DISCUSSION OF ISSUES FOR REPORT TO COUNCIL (TIME PERMITTING) MR. SEEWALD - DO WE WANT TO COME TO RECOMMENDATION ON PROCESS? [YESSES HEARD.] I’LL ENTERTAIN DISCUSSION. MS. CURRIE - NOT COMMISSION. MR. SEEWALD - WOULD LIKE TO HEAR WHY. MS. CURRIE - I COULD READ MINUTES OF LAST MEETING, AND MEETINGS BEFORE, DURING WHICH ALAN WENT ON AND ON. I ACCEPT YOUR REASONING. [READ SOME OF MINUTES.] MR. SEEWALD - [HE READ] RE EXPEDIENCE MAY NOT BE PREFERABLE. IT’S SOMETHING COUNCILORS WILL HAVE TO DECIDE. DIDN’T TAKE A POSITION. MAY HAVE ADVOCATED MORE STRONGLY, BUT REALLY DIVIDED. COUNTERVAILING INTEREST - OPEN, PUBLIC PARTICIPATION VS. A STRUCTURE WHICH MAY BE MORE LIKELY TO SUCCEED. MS. STRIEBEL - NOT SURE STRUCTURE DETERMINES PARTICIPATION. EITHER STRUCTURE NEEDS TO ENGAGE PUBLIC. ELECTION DOESN’T

GUARANTEE PARTICIPATION. INVOLVES THOSE ALREADY INTERESTED IN TOPIC. APPOINTMENT - LIKE THIS - APPLIED - INTERVIEWED. TESTED MY WILLINGNESS TO BE ENGAGED IN OUR TASK. NOT ALWAYS TESTED IN AN ELECTION. MS. CURRIE - GIVES OPPORTUNITY FOR BROADER MEMBERSHIP. LARGE, VERY LARGE COMMITTEE. CONVINCING PEOPLE WHO SPEAK AT RECYCLING CENTER AND TO COUNCILOR LABARGE TO PARTICIPATE. COUNCILOR LABARGE - THEY WON’T. MS. CURRIE - THERE WILL ALWAYS BE PEOPLE WHO COMPLAIN AND ARE DISSATISFIED, BUT ARE NOT WILLING TO COME FORWARD AND DO SOMETHING TO CHANGE IT. A LARGE COMMITTEE GIVES THE OPPORTUNITY WITH METHODS OF BEST PRACTICES, BETTER PUBLIC NOTIFICATION. ALL YOU CAN DO IS GET INFORMATION OUT, AND PEOPLE DECIDE WHETHER TO TAKE OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE. COUNCILOR LABARGE - AGREES WITH WENDY - LARGE COMMITTEE - INTERVIEW PROCESS - VALUABLE. WANTS COMMISSION. MR. SEEWALD - NINE LARGE ENOUGH? COUNCILOR LABARGE - THAT’S LARGE. COUNCILOR ADAMS - EXPEDIENCY - COMMITTEE MR. WARNER - HOPES YOU CAN GET PUBLIC INTEREST. MAYBE HOLD A SERIES OF DEBATES. PROCESS - WOULDN’T WANT COMMISSION OR COMMITTEE WITHOUT THE OPPORTUNITY FOR PUBLIC INVOLVEMENT. STILL WOULD NEED PUBLIC REFERENDUM. CLEANING UP DOCUMENT. EDITING. UNDERSTANDS IT OPENS UP TO POLICY CHANGES, BUT JUST HAVING A CLEAN DOCUMENT WOULD BE HELPFUL. WOULD NOT WANT TO HAVE PUBLIC REFERENDUM WITHOUT PEOPLE BEING INFORMED OF CONSEQUENCES OF DECISION. WOULD LIKE TO SEE DEBATE WITH PRESENTATION OF PROS AND CONS ON EACH ISSUE. MR. SEEWALD - SPECIAL ACT OR COMMISSION?

MR. WARNER - SPECIAL ACT. SIMPLICITY. MS. STRIEBEL - DO YOU THINK YOU WOULD HAVE A LOSS OF PUBLIC INPUT ? MR. WARNER - COULD HAVE A LOSS OF PUBLIC INPUT. WOULD HOPE/EXPECT WOULD STILL HAVE A FORUM TO MAKE DECISIONS TRANSPARENT AND ALLOW PUBLIC TO HAVE INPUT. MS. STRIEBEL - IF COMMITTEE APPOINTED - DOES IT COME WITH MANDATE FOR PUBLIC PARTICIPATION? [NO.] SO WE COULD RECOMMEND PUBLIC PARTICIPATION BE INCLUDED. MS. FOXMYN - COMMITTEE RECOMMENDS TO CITY COUNCIL - WHO HAS VESTED INTERESTS IN WHAT EXISTS STRUCTURALLY. MR. SEEWALD - AS DOES THE MAYOR. IMPLICATION IS THAT SOME ISSUES WOULD BE OFF THE TABLE - TERM LIMITS, E.G.. COUNCILOR ADAMS - MAYOR DOES NOT VETO. MR. WARNER - COUNCIL COULD HAVE VESTED INTEREST. IS THERE A WAY TO INSURE INDEPENDENCE? MS. STRIEBEL - CAN WE MANDATE A REFERENDUM? MR. SEEWALD - WE CAN’T MANDATE ANYTHING. CITY COUNCIL CAN MANDATE IT. I’M PRETTY SURE IN RECENT TIMES LEGISLATURE HAS REQUIRED A RATIFICATION BY THE VOTERS. MR. WARNER - A COMMISSION WOULD BE INDEPENDENT OF COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR? MR. SEEWALD - WE COULD RECOMMEND, HYPOTHETICALLY, THAT THE COUNCIL APPOINT A COMMITTEE THAT HAS A BUDGET, HAS STAFF, IS ABLE TO HIRE CONSULTANTS, SIGNIFICANT PUBLIC EDUCATION COMPONENT, SIGNIFICANT PUBLIC HEARING COMPONENT, APPOINTMENT BY MERIT, DIVERSE, RACIALLY, ECONOMICALLY, VOCATIONALLY, REGIONALLY THROUGHOUT THE CITY, VOTER RATIFICATION.

MR. WARNER - WOULD COMMISSION PRODUCT BE SUBJECT TO VETO BY COUNCIL? [NO.] IS THERE CONCERN RE POTENTIAL INTERFERENCE? MR. SEEWALD - INTERFERENCE? NO. THINKS COMMITTEE WOULD TAKE MAJOR STRUCTURAL CHANGES OFF THE TABLE. MS. STRIEBEL - COMMITTEE COULD STILL MAKE IT’S OWN RECOMMENDATIONS. LESS ASSURED ACCOUNTABILITY? MR. SEEWALD - IF COMMITTEE RECOMMENDS ELIMINATION OF MAYOR AND GO TO CITY MANAGER, WOULD MAYOR SIGN IT? MS. STRIEBEL - ANTICIPATING ONLY CLARITY RECOMMENDATIONS. MR. SEEWALD - NO. TRYING TO BALANCE MOST LIKELY TO SUCCEED WITH SOME CHANGES, E.G, MAYOR PRESIDING OVER COUNCIL. UNLIKELY THAT ANY PROCESS WOULD CHANGE BASIC FORM OF GOVERNMENT. GREATER LIKELIHOOD OF COMMITTEE PROCESS SUCCEEDING. MS. STRIEBEL - RISK - COMMISSION WOULD RECOMMEND CHANGES, AND COULD LOSE AT BALLOT BOX. MR. WARNER - IF JUST CLEARER DOCUMENT WITH LIMITED POLICY CHANGES, ONCE YOU OPEN IT UP ALL, STILL HAVE OPPORTUNITY FOR BROADER CHANGES. MR. SEEWALD - NOT SUGGESTING LIMITATION. JUST SUGGESTING MAJOR STRUCTURAL CHANGES UNLIKELY. MR. WARNER - ANY WAY TO ESTABLISH INDEPENDENCE ... COUNCILOR ADAMS - COULD WE JUST VOTE, AND THEN GET TO OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS. MR. SEEWALD - WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION. MR. WARNER - JUST WANTS TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE FULL UNDERSTANDING OF ALL RAMIFICATIONS. MS. STRIEBEL - WANTS TO LOOK AT INFO FROM CONTRERAS ... UNLESS WENDY - IF YOU HAVE A SENSE OF RELATIVE EFFICACY OF METHODS.

MS. FOXMYN - ONLY KNOWS ABOUT CHARTER COMMISSIONS. IS MONEY MAJOR STUMBLING BLOCK? EXPEDIENCY - TIME-CONSUMING, DEMOCRACY IS MESSY. ANYTHING GOVERNMENT DOES NEEDS TIME AND CARE. COUNCIL HAS DONE IN MINI WAYS. ISSUE IS DO YOU WANT TO HAVE INDEPENDENT GROUP, INDEPENDENT OF COUNCIL. MR. SEEWALD - SINCE HOME RULE AMENDMENT PASSED - 180 COMMISSIONS; 88 HOME RULE CHARTERS [ETC. RE CITIES VS. TOWNS.] MS. FOXMYN - TOWNS HAVE GONE TO CITIES. MAJOR REVAMPING. HAVE YOU HEARD THERE ARE ENOUGH SUBSTANTIVE, STRUCTURAL CHANGES WHICH NEED TO BE DONE? MR. SEEWALD - WE’VE HEARD ABOUT THINGS LIKE TERMS, TERM LIMITS, MAYOR CHAIRING CITY COUNCIL, CHAIRING SCHOOL COMMITTEE. REALISTICALLY, NEITHER COMMISSION NOR COMMITTEE LIKELY TO MAKE MAJOR CHANGES. CLEAN UP AND MINOR POLICY CHANGES. COMMITTEE MOST EXPEDITIOUS, EFFICIENT, AND GREATEST LIKELIHOOD OF SUCCESS. COMMISSION MEMBERS IDENTIFY SELVES AS HAVING AN ISSUE. MS. CURRIE - OR ARE INTERESTED IN GOVERNMENT. MS. STRIEBEL - OR HAVE THE TIME AND RESOURCES. MR. SEEWALD - BELIEVES THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE VALUABLE, BUT WOULD NOT PUT THEMSELVES OUT THERE. MS. FOXMYN - IN COMMENT RE JUST CLEAN UP. CAN’T SEE HOW YOU WOULDN’T GET TO POLICY ISSUES. MS. STRIEBEL - TERM LIMITS, E.G., IS THERE AN ALTERNATIVE WAY TO CHANGE OTHER THAN CHARTER REVISION. MR. SEEWALD - TERM LIMITS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAN’T BE CHANGED WITHOUT COMMISSION OR SPECIAL ACT COMMITTEE. MR. WARNER - APPLIES ONLY TO CURRENT COUNCIL AND MAYOR? MR. SEEWALD - NONE OF THIS APPLIES ONLY TO THOSE CURRENTLY SERVING.

MS. FOXMYN - A FEW YEARS AGO - A LOT OF TOWNS AND CITIES TRIED TO DO TERM LIMITS - REFERENDUM. MR. SEEWALD - ONLY WAY CITIZENS CAN BRING TERM LIMITS TO FORE IS TO PETITION FOR CHARTER COMMISSION. MS. FOXMYN - IT WAS DONE .. SORRY - SHE WAS REFERRING TO RECALL. MR. WARNER - PIECEMEAL CHANGES - ALL WENT TO LEGISLATURE. MS. FOXMYN - MUCH OF IT UNDER THE RADAR. MR. SEEWALD - EVEN IF WE HAD COMMISSION, COUNCIL COULD STILL AMEND BY SPECIAL ACT. MR. SEEWALD - DO I HAVE A MOTION? READY TO VOTE ON PROCESS WE RECOMMEND FOR AMENDING THE CHARTER? MS. CURRIE - MOTION - THAT WE VOTE. COUNCILOR ADAMS - SECOND. MR. SEEWALD - NEED A SUBSTANTIVE MOTION. COUNCILOR ADAMS - BELIEVES MOTION WAS TO VOTE ON WHETHER TO RECOMMEND THAT CITY COUNCIL AMEND CITY CHARTER BY COMMISSION OR SPECIAL ACT. HE SECONDS MOTION. MR. SEEWALD - [CLARIFYING.] MS. CURRIE - MOTION - RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL APPOINT A COMMITTEE TO AMEND THE CHARTER BY SPECIAL ACT. MR. WARNER - SECONDED. MR. SEEWALD - DISCUSSION? NONE. ALL IN FAVOR? - UNANIMOUS. A FEW MINUTES BEFORE WE NORMALLY ADJOURN. ANY PARTICULAR RECOMMENDATIONS? ASK COUNCIL - LARGE COMMITTEE BROAD REPRESENTATION - GEO, ECONOMICALLY DIVERSE, RACIALLY, ECONOMICALLY, REGIONALLY

INCLUDE STRONG EDUCATIONAL COMPONENT BROAD NOTICE TO COMMUNITY - DELIBERATIONS,

ETC. TRANSPARENT VOTER RATIFICATION MS. STRIEBEL - MOVED TO RECOMMEND TO COUNCIL THAT COMMITTEE INCLUDE THOSE CHARACTERISTICS. COUNCILOR LABARGE SECONDED. VOTE - UNANIMOUS MR. SEEWALD -ASKED MAGGIE TO PUT LIST TOGETHER (FROM MINUTES OF LAST MEETING) - BY END OF JANUARY - DO WE NEED JANUARY 5 MEETING ? MS. STRIEBEL - IS THERE VALUE IN REPORT TO CHARACTERIZE CHARTER - GENERAL CONTENT - FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES. MR. SEEWALD - THINKS IT HAS TO INCLUDE BROAD DESCRIPTION OF CHARTER. ALSO NEED TO PUT IN EXACT CHARGE OF COMMITTEE - ORDINANCE ITSELF. OUTLINE WHAT WE HAVE DONE. (COUNCILOR ADAMS HAD TO LEAVE.) MR. WARNER - PROCESS FOR REVIEW? MR. SEEWALD - BRING COMMENTS TO MEETING. MS. CURRIE - AGREE WE DO NOT NEED JANUARY 5 MEETING? MR. SEEWALD - YES. WILL E-MAIL MARY MIDURA. 5. ADJOURN MS. STRIEBEL - MOVED. COUNCILOR LABARGE SECONDED.