ChannelMasteryPodcast,Episode#70:KristinCarpenter-OgdenInterviews

ChrisDickerson

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Kristin: WelcomeeverybodytoanotherepisodeoftheChannelMasterypodcast,Iamsoexcitedtointroducemyguesttoyoutodaybecause,heismyteammateatVerdeBrandCommunications.PleasemeetChrisDickersonwhoistheDirectorofIntegratedServicesatVerdeBrandCommunications.WelcomeChris.

ChrisDickerson: 00:51 Thankyou.Heyeveryone.

Kristin: 00:53 It'sawesometohaveyou,notonlyatVerde,buthereontheshow.Andguesswhat?You'regoingtobearegularguest.We'vetalkedaboutthis,andIknowyou're...Youcanbealittleshynowandthen.But,trustme,whatyoucanbringtothispodcastandtoourawesomeaudience,isgoingtobehuge.Andtoday,IhaveChrisin-housetodiscussthefutureofinfluencermarketingfor2019.So,Verdedoes...Wehavemanagedinfluencerprogramsandloyaltyprogramsforclientsforanumberofyearsnow.AndpartofwhatChrishasdonehereatVerdein2018,isup-leveledourprogramandmodernizedittoworkforwhatwedoforourbrandstoday,intermsofmakingitcomplimentarytotheotherchannelsandcommunicationstrategiesthatwe'resupportingforbrands.

Kristin: 01:38 So,IthoughtitwouldbeawesometohaveChrishereontheshowtoday,totalkaboutthemajortrendsininfluencermarketingfor2019,becauseIjust...Ithinkitaffectseverybody'sbusiness,especiallyinthespecialtymarketsthatwe'rein.So,withthatChris,whydon'twestartbygivingtheaudienceashortlittlebackgroundonyourcareer,becauseIthinkit'ssuperinteresting,andI'mveryproudofyour

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background.Andthenwe'llgointosomedefinitionsandtalkaboutsomepredictionsandsomefunstuff.

ChrisDickerson: 02:08 Sure.Well,thanksforhavingme.I'mexcitedtobehere.Alittlebitaboutme,mybackground.IamfromWashingtonState,andIstillliveouthere.I'vebeenanavidskierforalong,longtimeandthat'sprettymuchhowIgotmystartintheoutdoors.Itaughtskiingincollegeandthenfromthere,workedforWhistlerBlackcombinsalesandmarketingforanumberofyears.MovedouttoTahoeforaseasonandthen,movedbacktoWashingtontohelp...IworkedatZumiezinrampinguptheireCommerceplatformatzumiez.com,integratingstoremarketingwiththeirnewwebsite.Aswellashelpruntheiremailmarketingprogram.Fromthere,thenImovedovertoEvoandhelpedwithretentionmarketing.Ultimately,helpedopenacoupleofstores.Idrivetheirsocialmedia,blog,everythingalongthoselines.

ChrisDickerson: 03:13 So,anytimesomebodywasacustomerandwewantedthemtocomeback,itwasmyjobandeverybodywhoworkedwithme,toreallymakesurethatwewereengagingthemconsistently.So,aftertheyboughttheirskisorsnowboardsorbikes,theywouldstillcomebacktobuymoregearafterthat.Aswellas,engagingthecommunity.Itwasn'tallaboutsales,itwasallaboutcreatingthatrelationshipmarketinganddrivingcommunity.Sowhentheywerereadytobuy,hopefullytheywouldthinkofmefirst.Afterthat,IwentovertoHanoverStudios,whichwasanoutdoormarketingagency.Andthenfollowingthat,Ihelpedrunasocialmediamarketingcompany,WeAreUnicorns.Andthen,joinedVerdeearlierthisyearinhelpingintegrateallthedigitalmarketingwithallthepublicrelationsandmediaefforts.

Kristin: 04:13 Ohwell,weareso,soexcitedtohaveyouhere.So,everybodyIwanttohoneinonacoupleofthingsChrisjustsharedabouthisbackgroundbecause,hebringssuchafluencytohisroleatVerdeandtotheshowhere,today.Butultimately,it'saboutagain,histitleisIntegrationbut,it'slifetimecustomervalue.Itisbuildingloyalty,itiscreativelygettinginfrontofpeopleandnurturingthemandbuildingthatreciprocitybyofferinghighvalueadcontentorexperience,nomatterwherethey'reinterfacingwithyourbrand.And,influencermarketinghasproventobe,itcanbegasonthefireoritcanbedyingonthevine.AndasGaryVaynerchecksaid,andIdon'tknowwherehesaiditbutIknowhesaidit.Ishouldfindthisandputitintheshownotes.Butmarketershaveatendencytoruineverything,andthat'soneofthethingsthatGaryVpointedoutintermsof,influencermarketingissuperpowerfulassocialmediahasrisenthroughtheranksasasuperimportantchannel.Thenitbecamemonetizedandyada,yada,yada.

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Kristin: 05:11 Butultimately,whereI'mgoingwiththisis,aswetry,andcreateprocessandsystemaroundthisandanyonewho'sworkedwithmeknows,Isurelovemyprocessandsystems,right?Butit'shardtodothatwithinfluencermarketinganddoitreallywell.So,that'soneofthereasonswhywe'reexcitedtohave,youknow,Chrisjointheagencybecause,heunderstandshowimportantitistobenimble.Toalwayschangeitup,andtoreallykeepaneyeontheballaroundlike,nurturingandnotpushingtopeople.So,withthat,let'stalkalittlebitaboutdefinitionsbecause,Ihaveafeelingthatthere'smorethanonepersonlisteningheretodaywhomightthinkambassadors,athletesandinfluencersareallthesamething.Theymayallfitinthesamebucket.Butcanyoumaybegiveusalittlebitoflineofsightonthatintermsof,whatitmeansin2019?

ChrisDickerson: 05:58 Yeah.Ithinkit'sacase-by-casebasis,anditdependsonthebrand,andthepeopleyouwanttoreach.Tomeit'sallabouttherelationshipthatyou'regettingwiththispersonorpet,ifit'sapetcompany.Ithink...ThewayIclassifyitis,athleteorambassadorissomebodythatyouworkwithonaprettyconsistentbasisandthesepeoplearetheone'sthatgooutthereandactuallyrepresentyourbrand.Theyhelpwithproductdevelopments,theycanhelpwithtesting.Youknow,there'ssomereallygoodexamplesofreallystrongrelationshipsinambassadorteams.So,thosearethepeoplethatyou'regoingbacktooconsistently,they'reonyourwebsite,you'reworkingwiththem.Theymightbehelpingdevelopcontentforyou.Butit'saspecialgroupofpeoplethatyou'reworkingwithtoreallyhelpyoutellyourbrandmessagethrough.

Kristin: 06:55 Right.

ChrisDickerson: 06:56 Whileambassadorsaren'tquiteasconnectedtoyourbrand,theymightrepresentseveralbrands.Sowhattheyhavedoneisgoneoutandcreatedaprettyloyalfollowing,ifthey'vedoneitright.Andthey'vefiguredoutwhattheiraudiencelikes,howtotalktothem,andthey'rereallyconsistentlyengagingwiththem.That'snottosaythat,ambassadorsorathletesdon'tdothatalsobecause,theyprobablydo.Butit'sjustanotherwaytogetyourmessageouttherealittlebitfurther.Iwouldn'tbetoworriedaboutthesizeofthatperson'saudience,aslongasthey'vegotareallyengagingcontentandareallycorefollowingwithahighengagingpercentage.Thatway,whenyou'regoingouttosomebodywhohas1,000fansandespeciallythewaythealgorithmsworknowwhere,everythingyou'repostingorthey'repostingisn'tgoingouttoallyourfans.Soyouhavetodothisnarrationandcreatethesemeaningfulconnections.So,organically,morethingswillbeseen.

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ChrisDickerson: 07:56 Andso,youknow,youcouldasksomebodywith50,000fansbutifthey'vegotprettypoorengagementonlysay,100peoplewillseethat.Butifyou'vegotsomebodywith1,000supercorefans,maybe3-400peopleoftheirfollowerswillseewhatthey'reputtingoutandhowthey'retalking.So,butwhat'salsogoodtorememberisthat,workingwiththesepeopleasapartnershipisreallycrucialbecause,youcan’ttellanambassadororaninfluencer,"Iwantyoutopostthisphotoonthisdayatthistime,here'sthecopy."Thatturnsalotofinfluencersoff.Becausethentheybecomejustthismechanismtogetawarenessorsellstuffandtheydon'treallylikethat,theirfansusuallydon'tlikethat.Sothat'swhenyouhavetohavethat,it'salmostahighertouchpointtobe,okayhere'ssomething...Here'sanideawehaveasabrand.Whatdoyouthink?Howwouldyouraudiencereceivethis?

ChrisDickerson: 08:51 Andthen,it'smoreofabackandforthandapartnership.Andthat'sthetypeofrelationshipsthatIstriveforaswellas,it'savery...It'slesstransactional.It'smoreof...

Kristin: 09:06 Relationship.

ChrisDickerson: 09:08 ...Relationships,yeah.

Kristin: 09:08 Right.Ilovethatyoubroughtthatupbecause,alotofpeopleaswewereresearchingthisepisode,whenIwasaskingmembersofouraudiencewhattheywouldliketosee.Theytalkedabouttheviabilityofthoseautomaticplatformsthatyoucansignupfor.AndIalwaystalkaboutourmarkets,andIknowyouknowthis,asspecialsnowflakes,right?Butinthecaseofinfluencermarketingweactuallytrulyare,inVerde's17plusyearsinthismarket,andourtouchpointsandrelationshipsthatwe'vebuilt,ourreputationandthewaythatweworkwithpeoplelikeinfluencers.Ithinkiswhatreallyhasmadethedifferenceandenabledustoreallycreatealotofsuccessforbrandsaroundthis.Andtheverysecondthatwehearoneofourmarketingleadslookingatoneoftheseautomatedprograms,theyusuallycomewithaveryhighpricetag,andtheyarekinda,startingtotreattheinfluencerlikecattleinapeninsteadofasanindividual.And,that'ssomethingthatyouandItalkedaboutaswewererehearsingthis.That'sabigpartofwhat'sgoingtohappenin2019,becauseyouknow,theindustry'stalkingaboutmicroandnanoinfluencers,whichwe'regoingtogetintoregulationandkindofdefinitionsonthatfront.

Kristin: 10:20 Butreally,it's...Thesepeoplearepeople.Like,thesamewaywetalkaboutemailmarketing,howbigisyourlist?Everypersononalistisaperson,andweneedtotreatthemthatway.Butinthecaseofinfluencers,theyhaveworkedsuperhard,theonesweworkwithatleastatVerde,tobuildtheir

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followingandreallydoafantasticjobwithwhatthey'reposting.Andit'smoreimportantforustohaverespectinhowweapproachthem,tohelpthembemoreremarkabletotheirfansandfollowerswithwhatwe'reaskingthemtopromote.And,Ijustwanttomakesurethat,that'skindofwhatyou'resteeringustowardhere.

ChrisDickerson: 10:54 Yeah,forsure.Ithinkwhat'simportantistoreallyunderstandwhothey'retalkingtobecauseifyoupickthewronginfluencerandtheygodosomethinghorrible,you'rekindofonthehookforitalso.

Kristin: 11:13 Right,thecleanup,wehaveto[inaudible00:11:15]cleanupwhenthathappens.

ChrisDickerson: 11:15 Yeah,yeah.Exactly.

ChrisDickerson: 11:20 Andit'scomingtoapointwhereeverybodyhasacameraandthey'reshootingtonsandtonsofcontent,itbecomesreallydilutedandeverybodythinkstheycanmakeaquickbuckoffofit.So,it'sreallybeenallfilteredthroughthepeoplethatactuallyaregenuineaboutitversustheonesthataregonnamakeaquickbuckoffofit.Andhelpingthemwiththeireffortstoachievetheirgoalsatthesametime.

Kristin: 11:48 Right.Awesome.So,let'stalkalittlebitaboutsomeofyourpredictionsandthenwe'llgetintoregulationslikewherearewegoingtoseethesuccessesandmaybethefailuresofinfluencermarketingcampaignsin2019orevenjustthefirstpartof2019becauseitchangessoquickly?

ChrisDickerson: 12:06 Yeah.Ithinktransparencyisgonnabeabigthingcomingthroughhere,likeyouwerejusttalkingaboutsomeoftheservicesandthoughtsandwhatnot,FacebookandInstagramhavebeenfightingtheseoverthepastcoupleyearsnowandeverycouplemonthstheyarestartingtoremovefakeaccountsandIthinkwe'regonnaseethoseeffortscontinueincreaseandwe'regonnareallyseewhichinfluencershavedonethisorganicallyversuspeoplewhohavepaidandfakeaccountsandIthinkthat'sgonnabereallyinterestingtoseethesepeoplekindofcomeandgoon...FacebookandInstagramtellyouwhattheywantasabrandoraninfluencer,they'reconstantlysayingcreatemeaningfulrelationships,meaningfulinteractions.Andit'saslowandsteadyapproachandaspeoplewhohavebeendoingthatarebeingrewardedforthat-

Kristin: 13:07 Yeah.

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ChrisDickerson: 13:08 AndIthinkthat'sgonnabespedupevenmoreso.Andwhenwesortofseethosepeoplethathavedonethat,it'sgonnabereallyapparentontheonesyoushouldworkwithandtheonesyoushouldn'tworkwith.

Kristin: 13:24 Right.AndevenGoogle,right.Ireallyfeellikeasweseeallofthesechangesthroughoutthecourseoftheyear,you'reright,itisreallystartingto,everything'skindofpredicatedonhowyouservethelargercommunityandtheinfluencersIthinkhave,thereallygoodones,havealreadybeencuratingtheircontenttotheirpeople,theirapproachtheirtoneandeverythingaboutthatandithastomatchupwiththebrand.So,aswelooktoassigninfluencersandcreatecampaignsaroundthis,it'ssuper,superimportantthatyouunderstandthebrandvoice,thebrandpositionandthepointsofdifferentiationandmakesureyou'relookingaroundthecorneratallofthesubtlenuancesaroundyourbranddifferentiationandhowthatcouldmatchupwithaninfluencer.It'salaboriousprocessandyoualsohavetohaveareallysolidnetworkwhichwe'reconstantlybuildingandthat'swhatI'mmostexcitedaboutwithournewinfluencerplatformthatwearelaunchingfornextyeariswehavereallyputalotoftimeandeffortintothattomakesurethatitactuallyworkswellandisnimbleforourclients.So,doyouhaveanythingaroundvettingnewinfluencersorthingsthatyou'vebeenmaybedeployingthataretriedandtrueornewtacticsandstrategiesthatyou'vestumbledupon?

ChrisDickerson: 14:43 Ohgosh.Well,it'salwaysconstantlychanging,especiallyasthesocialmediaplatformschangeandpopularityincreasesanddecreases.Thewaypeopleareactivatingdifferentchannelsanddifferentfeatures.It'ssortofacatandmousegame.So,tobeabletoconstantlykeepupwithallthechangesandupdates,canbeverybrandspecifictoo.OnebrandcouldbeamazingatYouTubeandvideowhileanothercouldbereallygreatatInstagramstoriesorphotography.So,beingabletohighlightandsearchthroughthosepeopleisreallyimportant.

ChrisDickerson: 15:25 Alotoftimesyoucanlookfromwithinabrandandfindcustomersorfriendsofcustomersthatareamazingphotographers,dependingonthesizeofthebrand.Andthenlookatthesportsthatwe'redoingandfigureoutkindofwho'sdoingthebestatwhatevertheirparticulardisciplineisandIthink,again,goingbacktowhatyourbrandis,howyouwanttospeaktopeople,andhowyou'rereachingthosepeople,it'sreallyfirmingthatupandthenfiguringoutthetypeofinfluencerorpersonthatwillalignwiththatandit'salwaysfluid,it'salwayschanging.So,asourdatabasegrows,we'realwayssortoffeedingthebeastinthatway.

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Kristin: 16:23 Right.Andwhatabout,oneofthethingsthatI'mexcitedaboutwithwhatwe'redoingiswe'retakingtheheadacheoutofitsowe'regonnabeupdatingeverythingthatwedoasthingscontinuetogetregulated.But,canyoutalkalittlebitaboutbestpracticesaroundthingsthattheaudiencewillneedtoknowspecifictoadisclosureofsponsoredcontent?We'veseensomespectacularfaceplantsthisyearwiththatin2018,notVerdepersebutImeanbiginfluencers.Ifyoureadanyofthemarketingpublicationsornewssitesoutthere,you'veseentheseaswellwhereinfluencersareslappedwithhuge,hugefineswhenthey'renotdisclosing.So,canyoutalkalittlebitabouthowthat'srelevanttoourspecialtymarkets?

ChrisDickerson: 17:04 Yeah.Ithinkthat'sgonnabeprettybigin2019asthisquoteonquote,"channel,"startstomatureandincreaseinvisibilityandmarketersreallylatchon,Ithinkjustthewholetransparencyisbecomingevenmoreimportant.AndI'vestartedtoseealotmoreinfluencersputahashtagsponsoredpostandtheydoareallygoodjobofbasicallytellingtheirfanswhenit'sasponsoredpost.Ithinkthat'sfine.Peopleshouldbedoingthat.Ithinkwhenyoulookatmacroandmicroinfluencers,that'swhereIthinkitbecomesalittlebitmorefuzzy.Thesepeopleareprobablyamateursorjustyoureverydaypersonwhomightbewantingtobecomeaproatsomethingorbecomeaproinfluencer,getpaid.Butattheendofthedaythey'reprobablyjustaveryloyalcustomer.Andthentomethattiesbacktoabrandloyaltyprogramandhowtoactivateyourcurrentcustomersorfuturecustomers.Andifthey'realreadystockedoutonyourbrandenoughwherethey'retaggingyouinphotosand...ReachingouttothemforusergeneratedcontentIthinkisgreatbutwhereIcansortofseesomegrayareasstarttoemergeisifyou'reusingthatphotoandyou'retaggingyourproductinitandthatlinkstoyourwebsite,thatmightbecomeabigproblemdowntheroadfornotonlyyoubutyourinfluencerdemandingmoney.So,Ithinkyouhavetobeverycarefulofhowyou'reworkingwiththesepeople,especiallyifit'susergeneratedcontent.Butyeah,goingbacktoaloyaltyprogram,tomeloyaltyisaboutretentionandthosemicroinfluencers,theyarejuststockedoutcustomersattheendofthedayprobably,andyoucanworkwiththemondifferentwaystokeepthemexcitedbecauseiftheylikeyourproduct,they'regonnashareitanyways,they'regonnatelltheirfriends.Andthenreally,harnessingthatinaprograminyoucouldalmostthinkofitasacoupledifferenttierswhereyou'vegotyourmicroandmacroinfluencerswhichareyourloyalcustomers,thenyou'vegotyourinfluencerswheretheyaremoreforbrandawarenessandworkingwiththeminpartnershipsandthenyou'vegotsortofyourambassadorsandathleteswhoaretellingyourbrand'sstoryandhelpingyoutellyourbrand'sstory.AndIthinkthere'ssortofthreedifferent

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phasesthatallworktogether.AndthenofcoursewhenallthatworkstogetheralongwithyourwebsiteandPRandpaidandallthatstuff,that'swhenitbecomessuperpowerfulwhereyou'realltalkingaboutthesamethingatthesametime.

Kristin: 20:18 Right,andwe'veseenacoupleofcasestudiesrecentlyhereatVerdewhereitissuperpowerfulwhenthosearrowslineup,andthat'swhatwelovetosee.So,isthere,intermsofagain,bestpracticesformakingsureouraudiencegetseverybitofvaluetheycanoutofyou,isitabestpracticetomakesurethatyou'recreatingacontractorisitacharterofsomekind?Whenyou'resettingupaloyaltyprogramversusaninfluencerrelationship,giveussomeoftheboundariesthere.

ChrisDickerson: 20:49 Yeah.Iwouldsayforaninfluencerprogram,firstthingyouhavetofigureoutiswhatareyoudoingitandwhyareyoudoingit,andifyoucan'tanswerthatquestionthenit'sgonnabehardtoreachouttoacertaininfluencer.

Kristin: 21:03 Yeah.

ChrisDickerson: 21:04 So,Iliketogivemyselfsomeguardrailsonokay,amItalkingaboutoneproduct,amItalkingatabrandlevel?Soreally,what'smyfocusformyinfluencersthatIwanttoworkwith.Fromthere,youcanbuildinsortofyourbrandstatementandthenhow,whatthiscampaignsortofrollsupwiththebrandstatement,andthenhowyou'reactivating...Idon'tliketokeepalltheseinonesilo.[inaudible00:21:34]listouteverysinglechannelandhowI'mactivatingitandthepurposeandthegoalofeachoneofthose.SothenonceI'vegotareallysolidwhat,where,how,orwhat,why,how,thenIhaveagoodframeworktogooutwhenI'mstartingtovetforinfluencers.Whetherit'saroundacertainsport,acertainhashtag.AndthenIwillactuallylookatwhothey’refollowing,who'sfollowingthemandclickonsomeprofilesanddosomelightvetting.IfIlikewhatIseethenwe'llreachouttothemandtalkabout,"Hey,we'vegotthiscoolproductorwe'dlovetoworkwithyou,here'swhatwe'rethinking,howdoyouthinkyouraudiencewillrespondtothis?"

Kristin: 22:21 Right.

ChrisDickerson: 22:22 It'sallabouthavingopendialogwiththesepeople.

Kristin: 22:25 Andwhendoyouactuallyinitiate?Again,I'mkindofgettingmoregranularhereforthebenefitoftheaudience,loyaltyprogramwhereyou'vegotthisrabidlyexcitedcustomerversusitsoundstomelikeyou'regoingbacktothegoal.Soyouwanttoamplifythismessageorthisfacetofyourbrand,ifitmakes

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sensetoworkwithapaidinfluencer,that'sawaytogetfasttraction.Thesamewayitistoboostsomethingonsocialmedia,it'salittlebitofadifferentanalogy.But,youknow,payingforitisgoingtocreategasonthefire.

Kristin: 22:57 Andthentheloyaltyprogram,Ifeellike,couldbealmostmoreoflonggame,right?

ChrisDickerson: 23:00 Right.Yeah,andwithaloyaltyprogram,there'ssomanywaysyoucouldactivate.AndIdon'treallyliketousethewordactivate,becauseit'sverytransactional,but-

Kristin: 23:14 Strikethatword.

ChrisDickerson: 23:16 Yes,editthatout.Ithinkyourbestcustomerswillusuallygiveyouthebestfeedbackalso,andthey'llsupportwhatyou'redoing.Sowhether...andloyaltyprogramsdon'thavetobehuge.Ilikeusingourbestcustomersforsurveysandaskingquestions,solicitfeedbackonproductandproductdevelopment.Andthatyoucanevenopenuptopeopleonsocialmedia.Whetherit'slikeyourInstagramaccountorFacebookaccount,crowdsourcingisalsoagoodwaytoengagethesepeople.Ifyou'rethinkingaboutanewproductoranewcolorway,invitethemtobepartoftheprocessandthentheyfeelreallyvestedinit.AndIthinkthat'sagoodwayforretentionandloyaltyforthose.

ChrisDickerson: 24:08 Youknow,youcanuseemailexclusives,trailerreleases,thoseareallreallygoodwaystoactivateyourloyalcustomers.Andthenyoucanalsogivethemcertainpromocodesorwaysthattheycansharetotheirfriendstousethemas,like,aninfluencer.

Kristin: 24:32 Okay,beforewewrapuphere,IhavetorunaheadlinebyyoubecauseIlovetodotheseinthepodcast.SoIjustnoticedearliertodaythatonBloomberg,andthiswillbeinthelinkforthepodcastnotesforthisepisode,here'stheheadline:LululemontestsAmazonPrimestylesubscriptionforyogalovers,right?SoI'llputthelinkinthere,butessentially,lemmejustreadthisoneparagraphhere.

Kristin: 24:59 So,"Venturingintoafee-basedloyaltyprogramlikeamazon.comInc.'sPrime,initsestimated79millionUSmembers,isararemoveforanapparelretailer."Right?Thisisabigthingthat'shappening.Andobviouslyit'sagreatbrandtowatchbecausetheyhavesuchaloyalfanbaseandithasagreatbrandpersonality,Ithinkit'sabrandthat'sdifferentiatedinaverysaturatedmarket.Butwhatdoyouthinkaboutthislevelofaloyaltyprogram?Isthiskindofsomethingthatwemightsee

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moreinourspecialtyworld?ImeanLuluisdefinitelyahighendbrand,Idon'tknowifI'd...itdoesn'tfitintoourworld,necessarily,butwhatareyourthoughtsonthis?

ChrisDickerson: 25:42 Gosh.Itfeelslikeit'ssortofonthetailendofthewholesubscription-

Kristin: 25:54 Yep.

ChrisDickerson: 25:55 Platform.

Kristin: 25:55 Iwasfeelinglikethat,too.

ChrisDickerson: 25:56 There'ssomanyofthoselike,mailmemywardrobeforthemonthsortofthing.Theboxes,Imean,they'resohuge,they'llhaveacriticalmassofcustomer,I'msurethey'llbesuccessfulforthem.Andmaybeit'llworkforbiggerbrands.Youdoneedtodosomethinglikethat,Ifeel,tocompetewithAmazon,especiallywiththeshippingmagicthattheyhave[crosstalk00:26:26]

Kristin: 26:25 Well,andthefactthatthey'redoingapparelontheleveltheyare.

ChrisDickerson: 26:29 Yeah.

Kristin: 26:30 It'scrazy.SoIguessmypointinbringingthisupiswe'retalkingaboutairwarandgroundwar,alwaysonthispodcast.Andwe'vebeentalking,Ithink,alotaboutgroundwarinourspecialtymarkets.Andwehaveto.Imean,ourpeoplewannajoin,they'reraisingtheirhandtojoinourtribe,theyreadandengagewithourcontentintheirfreetime,theydothesportswemakeproductforintheirfavoriteweekendmoments,right?

Kristin: 26:53 AndsoIthinkit'simportantthatwetalkexactlyaswehavetothispoint,butit'salsoimportanttokeepaneyeonthebroadertrends.Andthisisone.WehavedoneashowwithCairn'sfounder,thatI'llputthelinksintheshownotesfor,whichisaoutdoorsubscriptionboxcompanythatIthinkisdoingsomereallycoolthings.ButtoseeabrandlikeLuluthat'smultichannelandhasbeensincedayone,branchintothis,Ithinkisprettycool.

Kristin: 27:17 SoIjustwantedtogetyourexperttakeonit,andIknowIputyouonthespotthere,forgiveme.HeloveswhenIdothat.

ChrisDickerson: 27:27 There'sabrandcalledImperialMotion.Andthey'reacoollittlebranduphere,they'rewaybiggerthantheywere.I'vealwaysreallylikedthem,reallycoolcompany.AndInoticedthat

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they've'gotalittlesubscriptionmodelwherethey'llsendyoubasicsliket-shirts,Ithinksocksandunderwearlike,onceamonth.AndIthoughtthatwasneat,butthey'vegotaprettygooddirecttoconsumermodelaswellasonlineandinstores.

ChrisDickerson: 27:57 Soitjustmightbethatit'sjustanotherchannelforyoursuperloyalcustomers.ButIthinkifyoudoitinaveryspecificwaythatworksforyourbrand,Ithinkthat'swhatyouhavetoaskyourself,howamIdoingthisdifferentlyfromeverybodyelse?

Kristin: 28:16 Right.

ChrisDickerson: 28:16 CanIaddavaluetoit?Ifyoucan,thenwhat'stheharmintrying.

Kristin: 28:23 Right.And,again,everybody,likeourgoalistoalwaysencourageyoutobenimbleandtrynewthings.Andoneofthereasonswe'verevampedourprogramistoenableustodothatforourbrandsthatweknowverywell.Sowe'reabletoactuallybemakingrecommendationstothemandencouragingthemtotrynewthings.Andoneexampleiswehaveaclientthatweweretryingtoencouragetoadoptaninfluencerprogram,butitactuallyturnedoutoncewegotourheadunderthehoodofthatcompanymoreso,wesawthatloyaltyprogramwasdefinitelywaitingforthemtogo.

Kristin: 28:55 So,Ifeellikethemostimportantthingistounderstandwhatyourbrandemotionallymeanstoyourendconsumer.Always.Youalwayshavetostartthere.That'stheNorthStar.AndthisisareallyfastdevelopingtopicandI'mgonnadragChrisbackontotheshowtobemyspecialcorrespondenthereaswellasonsocialmediaanddifferentthingslikethat.So,IjustwantedtoaccomplishtheintroductiontoeverybodyherewithChrisandourawesomeaudience,andthenreally,thankyou,Chrisforbringingthelineofsight.

Kristin: 29:25 IsthereanythingImayhaveforgottenintermsofwatchingthe2019horizonlinewithinfluencermarketingforchannelmasters?

ChrisDickerson: 29:35 Idon'tthinkso,Ithinkyou'vegotagoodstarttoitandjustkindofseeinghow2019startstorollout.Andyouknow,itchangessofastwhereinamonthwemighthavetotalkaboutsomethingtotallydifferent.

Kristin: 29:57 Whichishonestly,it'sanotherreasonwhyIthinkit'sgreattohaveusworkingonitforbrands.Iknowourclientsarereallystokedonthat.Soifyou'reinterestedinlearningmoreaboutourprogrammingonthis,ourservices,headoverto

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verdepr.com.Andwearehappytoprovideyouwithmoreinformation.

Kristin: 30:14 But,Chris,itwasawesometohaveontheshowhereandwe'llprobablyhaveyouoninacouplemoreweekstoupdateusonallthenewregulationsthataregoingtorollin2019.

Kristin: 30:24 So,thankyou,again.Anditwasgreattohaveyouontheshow.

ChrisDickerson: 30:30 Allright,thankyou.