are you traditional?

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Are you Traditional? Are you Traditional? We should never be afraid to We should never be afraid to distinguish between human distinguish between human traditions and the will of traditions and the will of God. God.

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Are you Traditional?. We should never be afraid to distinguish between human traditions and the will of God. Are you Traditional?. We should never be afraid to distinguish between human traditions and the will of God. - PowerPoint PPT Presentation

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Page 1: Are you Traditional?

Are you Traditional?Are you Traditional?

We should never be afraid to distinguish We should never be afraid to distinguish between human traditions and the will of between human traditions and the will of God.God.

Page 2: Are you Traditional?

Are you Traditional?Are you Traditional?

We should never be afraid to distinguish We should never be afraid to distinguish between human traditions and the will of between human traditions and the will of God.God.

We are hearing more and more about how We are hearing more and more about how churches have become “traditional” and churches have become “traditional” and how we need to leave “the traditional how we need to leave “the traditional position.”position.”

Page 3: Are you Traditional?

Are you Traditional?Are you Traditional?

We should never be afraid to distinguish We should never be afraid to distinguish between human traditions and the will of God.between human traditions and the will of God.

We are hearing more and more about how We are hearing more and more about how churches have become “traditional” and how churches have become “traditional” and how we need to leave “the traditional position.”we need to leave “the traditional position.”

The call to leave human traditions is a Biblical The call to leave human traditions is a Biblical call. call. (Mt 15:8-9, 1 Pt 1:18-19)(Mt 15:8-9, 1 Pt 1:18-19)

Page 4: Are you Traditional?

Are you Traditional?Are you Traditional?

Matthew 15:8-9 (NKJV)Matthew 15:8-9 (NKJV) - - ‘These‘These peoplepeople draw near to Me with their mouth, And draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me withhonor Me with their lips, their lips, But their heart But their heart is far from Me. is far from Me. 9 9 And in vain they worship And in vain they worship Me, Me, TeachingTeaching as doctrines the as doctrines the commandments of mencommandments of men.’”.’”

Page 5: Are you Traditional?

Are you Traditional?Are you Traditional?

1 Peter 1:18-19 (NKJV)1 Peter 1:18-19 (NKJV) - knowing that - knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible you were not redeemed with corruptible things, things, likelike silver or gold, from silver or gold, from your aimless your aimless conduct conduct receivedreceived by tradition by tradition from your from your fathers, 19 but with the precious blood of fathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.without spot.

Page 6: Are you Traditional?

Are you Traditional?Are you Traditional?

When people label things as human When people label things as human tradition without a willingness to open the tradition without a willingness to open the Bible and test their assertion then a new Bible and test their assertion then a new human tradition is in the making.human tradition is in the making.

Page 7: Are you Traditional?

Are you Traditional?Are you Traditional?

When people label things as human When people label things as human tradition without a willingness to open the tradition without a willingness to open the Bible and test their assertion then a new Bible and test their assertion then a new human tradition is in the making.human tradition is in the making.

Several years ago I was challenged to look Several years ago I was challenged to look at the Bible alone and take a stand to simply at the Bible alone and take a stand to simply be a Christian.be a Christian.

Page 8: Are you Traditional?

Are you Traditional?Are you Traditional?

When people label things as human tradition When people label things as human tradition without a willingness to open the Bible and test without a willingness to open the Bible and test their assertion then a new human tradition is in the their assertion then a new human tradition is in the making.making.

Several years ago I was challenged to look at the Several years ago I was challenged to look at the Bible alone and take a stand to simply be a Bible alone and take a stand to simply be a Christian.Christian.

This stand was motivated out of a faith in Jesus This stand was motivated out of a faith in Jesus Christ. Christ. (1 John 5:1-3)(1 John 5:1-3)

Page 9: Are you Traditional?

Are you Traditional?Are you Traditional?

1 John 5:1-3 (NKJV)1 John 5:1-3 (NKJV) - Whoever believes that - Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandmentslove of God, that we keep His commandments. . And His commandments are not burdensome.And His commandments are not burdensome.

Page 10: Are you Traditional?

Are you Traditional?Are you Traditional?

The study of God’s word became one of The study of God’s word became one of searching and making changes in my life. I searching and making changes in my life. I was not afraid to give up past practices.was not afraid to give up past practices.

Page 11: Are you Traditional?

Why I left DenominationalismWhy I left Denominationalism

Love for my Lord demanded that I Love for my Lord demanded that I surrender things that divide. surrender things that divide. (Jn 17:20-23)(Jn 17:20-23)

Page 12: Are you Traditional?

Why I left DenominationalismWhy I left Denominationalism

John 17:20-23 (NKJV)John 17:20-23 (NKJV) - “I do not pray for - “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that in Me through their word; 21 that they all may they all may be onebe one, as You, Father, , as You, Father, areare in Me, and I in in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, You; that they also may be one in Us, that the that the world may believe that You sent Meworld may believe that You sent Me. 22 And . 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: them, that they may be one just as We are one:

Page 13: Are you Traditional?

Why I left DenominationalismWhy I left Denominationalism

23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, be made perfect in one, and that the world and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Meloved them as You have loved Me..

Page 14: Are you Traditional?

Why I left DenominationalismWhy I left Denominationalism

I was raised in a religious body that had I was raised in a religious body that had good sincere people in it.good sincere people in it.

Page 15: Are you Traditional?

Why I left DenominationalismWhy I left Denominationalism

I was raised in a religious body that had I was raised in a religious body that had good sincere people in it.good sincere people in it.

Why does division exist? What can I Why does division exist? What can I possibly do as a single individual?possibly do as a single individual?

Page 16: Are you Traditional?

Why I left DenominationalismWhy I left Denominationalism

One of my first challenges came as I One of my first challenges came as I examined the Lord’s Supper. examined the Lord’s Supper. (Mt 26:26-28)(Mt 26:26-28)

Page 17: Are you Traditional?

Why I left DenominationalismWhy I left Denominationalism

Matthew 26:26-28 (NKJV)Matthew 26:26-28 (NKJV) - And as they - And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke broke it,it, and gave and gave itit to the disciples and said, to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.” 27 Then He took “Take, eat; this is My body.” 27 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave the cup, and gave thanks, and gave itit to them, to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 For this saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.shed for many for the remission of sins.

Page 18: Are you Traditional?

Why I left DenominationalismWhy I left Denominationalism

In the Baptist church I never remember In the Baptist church I never remember partaking of it.partaking of it.

Page 19: Are you Traditional?

Why I left DenominationalismWhy I left Denominationalism

In the Baptist church I never remember In the Baptist church I never remember partaking of it.partaking of it.

Driving home from Samford University I Driving home from Samford University I heard a radio sermon on the subject. The heard a radio sermon on the subject. The early church met on the first day of the early church met on the first day of the week! week! (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor 16:1-2)(Acts 20:7; 1 Cor 16:1-2)

Page 20: Are you Traditional?

Why I left DenominationalismWhy I left Denominationalism

Acts 20:7 (NKJV)Acts 20:7 (NKJV) - Now - Now on the first on the first dayday of of the weekthe week, when , when the disciples came together the disciples came together to break breadto break bread, Paul, ready to depart the , Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight. message until midnight.

Page 21: Are you Traditional?

Why I left DenominationalismWhy I left Denominationalism

1 Corinthians 16:1-2 (NASB)1 Corinthians 16:1-2 (NASB) - Now - Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also. 2 also. 2 On the first day of every weekOn the first day of every week each each one of you is to put aside and save, as he one of you is to put aside and save, as he may prosper, so that no collections be made may prosper, so that no collections be made when I come.when I come.

Page 22: Are you Traditional?

Why I left DenominationalismWhy I left Denominationalism

I tried to imperfectly practice what I had I tried to imperfectly practice what I had learned.learned.

Page 23: Are you Traditional?

Why I left DenominationalismWhy I left Denominationalism

I tried to imperfectly practice what I had I tried to imperfectly practice what I had learned.learned.

While attending the University of Alabama While attending the University of Alabama I heard a basic presentation on how Jesus I heard a basic presentation on how Jesus directed men to be saved. directed men to be saved. (Mk 16:15-16)(Mk 16:15-16)

Page 24: Are you Traditional?

Why I left DenominationalismWhy I left Denominationalism

Mark 16:15-16 (NKJV)Mark 16:15-16 (NKJV) - And He said to - And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be savedbelieves and is baptized will be saved; but ; but he who does not believe will be he who does not believe will be condemned.condemned.

Page 25: Are you Traditional?

Why I left DenominationalismWhy I left Denominationalism

It was important not to base your It was important not to base your conclusion on just one verse. What did conclusion on just one verse. What did Peter preach? Peter preach? (Acts 2:38)(Acts 2:38)

Page 26: Are you Traditional?

Why I left DenominationalismWhy I left Denominationalism

Acts 2:38 (NKJV)Acts 2:38 (NKJV) - Then Peter said to - Then Peter said to them, “them, “Repent, and let every one of you be Repent, and let every one of you be baptizedbaptized in the name of Jesus Christ in the name of Jesus Christ for the for the remission of sinsremission of sins; and you shall receive the ; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.gift of the Holy Spirit.

Page 27: Are you Traditional?

Why I left DenominationalismWhy I left Denominationalism

As I examined all the verses on this subject, As I examined all the verses on this subject, I found that whenever baptism and I found that whenever baptism and salvation (forgiveness of sins) are salvation (forgiveness of sins) are mentioned together that baptism always is mentioned together that baptism always is placed before salvation. placed before salvation. (1 Pt 3:20-21)(1 Pt 3:20-21)

Page 28: Are you Traditional?

Why I left DenominationalismWhy I left Denominationalism

1 Peter 3:20-21 (NKJV)1 Peter 3:20-21 (NKJV) - who formerly were - who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while waited in the days of Noah, while thethe ark was ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21There is also souls, were saved through water. 21There is also an antitype an antitype which now saves us—baptismwhich now saves us—baptism (not (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Page 29: Are you Traditional?

Why I left DenominationalismWhy I left Denominationalism

After studying and asking further questions After studying and asking further questions I decided to be baptized into Christ and take I decided to be baptized into Christ and take a stand to be just a Christian. a stand to be just a Christian. (Acts 19:1-5)(Acts 19:1-5)

Page 30: Are you Traditional?

Why I left DenominationalismWhy I left Denominationalism

Acts 19:1-5 (NKJV)Acts 19:1-5 (NKJV) - And it happened, - And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” So they said to Spirit when you believed?” So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”there is a Holy Spirit.”

Page 31: Are you Traditional?

Why I left DenominationalismWhy I left Denominationalism

3 And he said to them, “Into what then were 3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?” So they said, “Into John’s you baptized?” So they said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptism.” 4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.” Jesus.” 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Page 32: Are you Traditional?

Why I left DenominationalismWhy I left Denominationalism

Was I right in doing that?Was I right in doing that?

Page 33: Are you Traditional?

Many churches are giving up that standMany churches are giving up that stand

I came to realize that the call to be I came to realize that the call to be undenominational was not taken seriously.undenominational was not taken seriously.

Page 34: Are you Traditional?

Many churches are giving up that standMany churches are giving up that stand

I came to realize that the call to be I came to realize that the call to be undenominational was not taken seriously.undenominational was not taken seriously.

After leaving the Baptist church I tried to After leaving the Baptist church I tried to apply what I learned to all differences! apply what I learned to all differences! (2 Tim 3:16-17)(2 Tim 3:16-17)

Page 35: Are you Traditional?

Many churches are giving up that standMany churches are giving up that stand

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NKJV)2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NKJV) - All Scripture - All Scripture isis given by inspiration of Godgiven by inspiration of God, and , and isis profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be complete, 17that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped thoroughly equipped for every good workfor every good work..

Page 36: Are you Traditional?

Many churches are giving up that standMany churches are giving up that stand

I tried to take all the verses on a given I tried to take all the verses on a given subject and stay within whatever that subject and stay within whatever that teaches. teaches. (Col 3:17, 2 Jn 9)(Col 3:17, 2 Jn 9)

Page 37: Are you Traditional?

Many churches are giving up that standMany churches are giving up that stand

Colossians 3:17 (NKJV)Colossians 3:17 (NKJV) - And - And whateverwhatever you do in word or deed, you do in word or deed, dodo all in the name all in the name of the Lord Jesusof the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the , giving thanks to God the Father through Him.Father through Him.

Page 38: Are you Traditional?

Many churches are giving up that standMany churches are giving up that stand

2 John 9 (NKJV)2 John 9 (NKJV) - Whoever transgresses - Whoever transgresses and and does not abide in the doctrine of Christdoes not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.the Son.

Page 39: Are you Traditional?

Many churches are giving up that standMany churches are giving up that stand

I was shocked to find that brethren were I was shocked to find that brethren were fearful of such a study. Many became angry fearful of such a study. Many became angry because I simply asked to study over an because I simply asked to study over an open Bible.open Bible.

Page 40: Are you Traditional?

Many churches are giving up that standMany churches are giving up that stand

I was shocked to find that brethren were I was shocked to find that brethren were fearful of such a study. Many became angry fearful of such a study. Many became angry because I simply asked to study over an because I simply asked to study over an open Bible.open Bible.

The most difficult decision I ever made The most difficult decision I ever made spiritually was to leave that church.spiritually was to leave that church.

Page 41: Are you Traditional?

Many churches are giving up that standMany churches are giving up that stand

25 years later I was shocked to hear that the 25 years later I was shocked to hear that the University church of Christ in Tuscaloosa University church of Christ in Tuscaloosa invited Tony Campolo to be a keynote invited Tony Campolo to be a keynote speaker. (See Article)speaker. (See Article)

Page 42: Are you Traditional?

Many churches are giving up that standMany churches are giving up that stand

I was stunned to hear the preachers there I was stunned to hear the preachers there were making the very arguments that I had were making the very arguments that I had heard from the Baptist church.heard from the Baptist church.

Page 43: Are you Traditional?

Many churches are giving up that standMany churches are giving up that stand

I was stunned to hear the preachers there I was stunned to hear the preachers there were making the very arguments that I had were making the very arguments that I had heard from the Baptist church.heard from the Baptist church.

Even today members from the Baptist Even today members from the Baptist church are welcomed into their membership church are welcomed into their membership with no challenges to their baptism.with no challenges to their baptism.

Page 44: Are you Traditional?

Many churches are giving up that standMany churches are giving up that stand

I asked in 1996 “Should I have left the I asked in 1996 “Should I have left the Baptist church?” to an ACU discussion list. Baptist church?” to an ACU discussion list. NO ONE thought that I should have and NO ONE thought that I should have and many ridiculed me for doing so.many ridiculed me for doing so.

Page 45: Are you Traditional?

Many churches are giving up that standMany churches are giving up that stand

Are we not far behind? Are we not far behind?

Page 46: Are you Traditional?

Many churches are giving up that standMany churches are giving up that stand

Here is a recent e-mail from a brother:Here is a recent e-mail from a brother:

Page 47: Are you Traditional?

Many churches are giving up that standMany churches are giving up that stand

Here is a recent e-mail from a brother:Here is a recent e-mail from a brother: I sorted through my collection of papers and I sorted through my collection of papers and

found your series on “Institutionalism--found your series on “Institutionalism--Then and Now An Overview”, which you Then and Now An Overview”, which you preached at the Lacey’s Spring preached at the Lacey’s Spring congregation several years ago.  I did this congregation several years ago.  I did this after hearing some sermons this past week.  after hearing some sermons this past week.  My questions are as follows: My questions are as follows: 

Page 48: Are you Traditional?

Many churches are giving up that standMany churches are giving up that stand

1.) How do bad personal experiences 1.) How do bad personal experiences influence a preacher to make steps toward a influence a preacher to make steps toward a wider fellowship?wider fellowship?

Page 49: Are you Traditional?

Many churches are giving up that standMany churches are giving up that stand

1.) How do bad personal experiences 1.) How do bad personal experiences influence a preacher to make steps toward a influence a preacher to make steps toward a wider fellowship?wider fellowship?

2.)  What book would someone have read if 2.)  What book would someone have read if they really thought the true practice of the they really thought the true practice of the 1st century Lord’s Supper was a common 1st century Lord’s Supper was a common meal that was shared during the service?meal that was shared during the service?

Page 50: Are you Traditional?

Many churches are giving up that standMany churches are giving up that stand

3.)  Should someone think a false teacher is 3.)  Should someone think a false teacher is only a person who has insincere motives in only a person who has insincere motives in their teaching?their teaching?

Page 51: Are you Traditional?

Many churches are giving up that standMany churches are giving up that stand

4.) Should we think that non-instrumental 4.) Should we think that non-instrumental music in worship is a logical and natural music in worship is a logical and natural conclusion from the N.T.? conclusion from the N.T.? 

Page 52: Are you Traditional?

Many churches are giving up that standMany churches are giving up that stand

4.) Should we think that non-instrumental music 4.) Should we think that non-instrumental music in worship is a logical and natural conclusion in worship is a logical and natural conclusion from the N.T.? from the N.T.? 

Considering men that have moved away from the Considering men that have moved away from the faith, which you have known personally, what faith, which you have known personally, what were the warning signs in their public preaching?  were the warning signs in their public preaching?  I would like to call them veiled subtleties that I would like to call them veiled subtleties that leave you uneasy after hearing the sermons. leave you uneasy after hearing the sermons. 

Page 53: Are you Traditional?

Many churches are giving up that standMany churches are giving up that stand

In recent months I have known several to In recent months I have known several to have left faithful churches and become a have left faithful churches and become a part of the University church and others like part of the University church and others like it.it.

Page 54: Are you Traditional?

Many churches are giving up that standMany churches are giving up that stand

In recent months I have known several to In recent months I have known several to have left faithful churches and become a have left faithful churches and become a part of the University church and others like part of the University church and others like it.it.

I have witnessed the arguments and I have witnessed the arguments and attitudes of some as they openly participate attitudes of some as they openly participate in on-line discussion groups and post in in on-line discussion groups and post in their blogs.their blogs.

Page 55: Are you Traditional?

Common arguments that are made against Common arguments that are made against undenominational Christianityundenominational Christianity

That insistence upon having book, chapter That insistence upon having book, chapter and verse for a practice is “legalism” and a and verse for a practice is “legalism” and a “church of Christ tradition.”“church of Christ tradition.”

Page 56: Are you Traditional?

Common arguments that are made against Common arguments that are made against undenominational Christianityundenominational Christianity

That insistence upon having book, chapter That insistence upon having book, chapter and verse for a practice is “legalism” and a and verse for a practice is “legalism” and a “church of Christ tradition.”“church of Christ tradition.”

There are many ways this attack is made. There are many ways this attack is made. Some attack what they call the Some attack what they call the “hermeneutic of CENI” (command, “hermeneutic of CENI” (command, example and necessary inference).example and necessary inference).

Page 57: Are you Traditional?

Common arguments that are made against Common arguments that are made against undenominational Christianityundenominational Christianity

Others have called us “propositional Others have called us “propositional Baconians” claiming that we have created Baconians” claiming that we have created laws that God never intended. Another term laws that God never intended. Another term used is “patternist.” used is “patternist.” (Heb 8:5)(Heb 8:5)

Page 58: Are you Traditional?

Common arguments that are made against Common arguments that are made against undenominational Christianityundenominational Christianity

Hebrews 8:5 - who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”

Page 59: Are you Traditional?

Jesus showed us by example how to respect the revealed will of God

Must we have authority from God for everything we do we have the right to act when God is silent? Look at the repeated, emphatic response of Jesus!

Page 60: Are you Traditional?

Jesus showed us by example how to respect the revealed will of God

Must we have authority from God for everything we do we have the right to act when God is silent? Look at the repeated, emphatic response of Jesus!

Jesus whole life was focused on “doing the will of the Father who sent Me.” (Jn 5:19-21, 30)

Page 61: Are you Traditional?

Jesus showed us by example how to respect the revealed will of God

John 5:19-20 (NKJV) - Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. 20For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel.

Page 62: Are you Traditional?

Jesus showed us by example how to respect the revealed will of God

John 5:30 (NKJV) - I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

Page 63: Are you Traditional?

Jesus showed us by example how to respect the revealed will of God

There was not a single thing Jesus did without the fellowship and authority of the Father. (Jn 8:28-29)

Page 64: Are you Traditional?

Jesus showed us by example how to respect the revealed will of God

John 8:28-29 (NKJV) - Then Jesus said to them, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things. 29And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him.”

Page 65: Are you Traditional?

Jesus showed us by example how to respect the revealed will of God

If someone really wishes to please God then they will walk in these same footsteps.

Page 66: Are you Traditional?

Jesus showed us by example how to respect the revealed will of God

If someone really wishes to please God then they will walk in these same footsteps.

What does perfect mean? What does “every good work” mean? If the silence of the Bible means that we can do what we think, then I do not know of a single doctrine of the Bible that is not compromised and made meaningless.

Page 67: Are you Traditional?

Common arguments that are made against Common arguments that are made against undenominational Christianityundenominational Christianity

Others have talked about “endless division” Others have talked about “endless division” because of our insistence for Bible because of our insistence for Bible authority. How about asking them to give authority. How about asking them to give ONE example!ONE example!

Page 68: Are you Traditional?

Common arguments that are made against Common arguments that are made against undenominational Christianityundenominational Christianity

Consider these quotes from Consider the Consider these quotes from Consider the following quotes : following quotes :

Page 69: Are you Traditional?

Common arguments that are made against Common arguments that are made against undenominational Christianityundenominational Christianity

Consider these quotes from Consider the Consider these quotes from Consider the following quotes : following quotes :

““The Church in TransitionThe Church in Transition” by James S. ” by James S. Woodroof. Woodroof.

Page 70: Are you Traditional?

Common arguments that are made against Common arguments that are made against undenominational Christianityundenominational Christianity

Consider these quotes from Consider the Consider these quotes from Consider the following quotes : following quotes :

““The Church in TransitionThe Church in Transition” by James S. ” by James S. Woodroof. Woodroof.

In silence Thy commands are hidIn silence Thy commands are hid." my ." my servant wrote,“ said Christ to me, "'For servant wrote,“ said Christ to me, "'For freedom Christ has set us free.freedom Christ has set us free.

Page 71: Are you Traditional?

Common arguments that are made against Common arguments that are made against undenominational Christianityundenominational Christianity

"Oh! Hellish cause, that makes men think "Oh! Hellish cause, that makes men think The dipper's more concern than drink; That The dipper's more concern than drink; That leaves men dying in their thirstleaves men dying in their thirst

Page 72: Are you Traditional?

Common arguments that are made against Common arguments that are made against undenominational Christianityundenominational Christianity

"Oh! Hellish cause, that makes men think "Oh! Hellish cause, that makes men think The dipper's more concern than drink; That The dipper's more concern than drink; That leaves men dying in their thirstleaves men dying in their thirst

Why put you words into My mouth In Why put you words into My mouth In places where I did not bid? places where I did not bid? For silence For silence neither gives consent, Nor yet does neither gives consent, Nor yet does silence e'er forbid.” - silence e'er forbid.” - THE CHURCH IN THE CHURCH IN TRANSITION, P. 187TRANSITION, P. 187

Page 73: Are you Traditional?

Common arguments that are made against Common arguments that are made against undenominational Christianityundenominational Christianity

Consider the quotes from another preacher Consider the quotes from another preacher and blogger.and blogger.

Page 74: Are you Traditional?

Common arguments that are made against Common arguments that are made against undenominational Christianityundenominational Christianity

Consider the quotes from another preacher Consider the quotes from another preacher and blogger.and blogger.

It was in the It was in the Spiritual SwordSpiritual Sword, they said! Are , they said! Are you kidding me? I had no idea it was still you kidding me? I had no idea it was still being published.being published.

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Common arguments that are made against Common arguments that are made against undenominational Christianityundenominational Christianity

There was a time that I couldn’t resist peeking There was a time that I couldn’t resist peeking at the heretic-detecting, faith-contending at the heretic-detecting, faith-contending religious pornography that came through the religious pornography that came through the office. But it’s been a long, long time. I guess office. But it’s been a long, long time. I guess I hoped they’d gone out of business. But no — I hoped they’d gone out of business. But no — someone brought me this copy back. It was someone brought me this copy back. It was strange holding it my hands, since I’ve sworn strange holding it my hands, since I’ve sworn off religious porn for so long.off religious porn for so long.

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The Cruciform Church (C. Leonard Allen) The Cruciform Church (C. Leonard Allen) is one of the most formative books of my is one of the most formative books of my Christian life. It’s a pleasure to write a Christian life. It’s a pleasure to write a foreword for this new edition. In some ways foreword for this new edition. In some ways I feel like I’ve written many forewords over I feel like I’ve written many forewords over the past sixteen years (since it was first the past sixteen years (since it was first published) as I’ve encouraged many young published) as I’ve encouraged many young ministers and university students to read it.ministers and university students to read it.

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RECLAIMING A HERITAGERECLAIMING A HERITAGE, a review, a review

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RECLAIMING A HERITAGERECLAIMING A HERITAGE, a review , a review Dr. Richard Hughes of Pepperdine Dr. Richard Hughes of Pepperdine

University - He tells us, “It is time to admit University - He tells us, “It is time to admit that in our churches, a wide variety of that in our churches, a wide variety of people from all walks of life...simply do not people from all walks of life...simply do not find patternism and legalism to be find patternism and legalism to be meaningful themes” (p. 121). meaningful themes” (p. 121).

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By patternism he means the conviction that By patternism he means the conviction that we should be obedient to the commands, we should be obedient to the commands, restrictions and regulations of the Bible. He restrictions and regulations of the Bible. He along with all other change agents flatly along with all other change agents flatly rejects that concept. rejects that concept. 

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That we should have fellowship with all That we should have fellowship with all who claim faith in Jesus Christ.who claim faith in Jesus Christ.

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That we should have fellowship with all That we should have fellowship with all who claim faith in Jesus Christ.who claim faith in Jesus Christ.

Before we extend fellowship we must make Before we extend fellowship we must make a judgment as to whether they are faithful to a judgment as to whether they are faithful to God. God. (1 John 1:5-7)(1 John 1:5-7)

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1 John 1:5-7 (NKJV)1 John 1:5-7 (NKJV) - This is the message - This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.cleanses us from all sin.

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We need to ask: “Is this one a Christian?” We need to ask: “Is this one a Christian?” (Acts 2:38, 9:26)(Acts 2:38, 9:26)

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Acts 2:38 (NKJV)Acts 2:38 (NKJV) - Then Peter said to - Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. gift of the Holy Spirit.

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Acts 9:26 (NKJV)Acts 9:26 (NKJV) - And when Saul had - And when Saul had come to Jerusalem, he tried to join the come to Jerusalem, he tried to join the disciples; but they were all afraid of him, disciples; but they were all afraid of him, and did not believe that he was a disciple.and did not believe that he was a disciple.

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We also need to ask: “Is this one a faithful We also need to ask: “Is this one a faithful Christian?” Christian?” (1 John 3:4-10; Eph 5:11)(1 John 3:4-10; Eph 5:11)

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1 John 3:4-7, 10 (NKJV)1 John 3:4-7, 10 (NKJV) - Whoever commits - Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. righteous, just as He is righteous.

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10 In this the children of God and the 10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor God, nor isis he who does not love his he who does not love his brother. brother.

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Ephesians 5:11 (NKJV)Ephesians 5:11 (NKJV) - And have no - And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose darkness, but rather expose them.them.

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Why does this church exist? What is the Why does this church exist? What is the primary reason for our relationship with one primary reason for our relationship with one another? It is not the “restoration heritage” another? It is not the “restoration heritage” but the cross of Christ! but the cross of Christ! (Gal 6:14)(Gal 6:14)

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Galatians 6:14 (NKJV)Galatians 6:14 (NKJV) - But God forbid - But God forbid that I should boast that I should boast except in the cross of our except in the cross of our Lord Jesus ChristLord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has , by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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Compromised fellowship will determine Compromised fellowship will determine future practice future practice (1 Cor 5:6)(1 Cor 5:6)

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We must let out focus be upon God and not We must let out focus be upon God and not upon the writings of men! (Ex. Preachers upon the writings of men! (Ex. Preachers luncheon, internet outlines)luncheon, internet outlines)

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We must let out focus be upon God and not We must let out focus be upon God and not upon the writings of men! (Ex. Preachers upon the writings of men! (Ex. Preachers luncheon, internet outlines)luncheon, internet outlines)

There is nothing wrong in asking for and There is nothing wrong in asking for and insisting upon “the truth.”insisting upon “the truth.”

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We must let out focus be upon God and not We must let out focus be upon God and not upon the writings of men! (Ex. Preachers upon the writings of men! (Ex. Preachers luncheon, internet outlines)luncheon, internet outlines)

There is nothing wrong in asking for and There is nothing wrong in asking for and insisting upon “the truth.”insisting upon “the truth.”

Some may be like Pilate and deny any such Some may be like Pilate and deny any such possibility. possibility. (Jn 18:38)(Jn 18:38)

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John 18:38 (NKJV)John 18:38 (NKJV) - Pilate said to Him, - Pilate said to Him, ““What is truthWhat is truth?” And when he had said this, ?” And when he had said this, he went out again to the Jews, and said to he went out again to the Jews, and said to them, “I find no fault in Him at all.them, “I find no fault in Him at all.

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Are we like Pilate or like Jesus? “Everyone Are we like Pilate or like Jesus? “Everyone who is of the truth hears my voice” who is of the truth hears my voice” (Jn 18:37)(Jn 18:37)

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John 18:37 (NKJV)John 18:37 (NKJV) - Pilate therefore said - Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?” Jesus to Him, “Are You a king then?” Jesus answered, “You say answered, “You say rightlyrightly that I am a king. that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I have come into the world, that I should I should bear witness to the truthbear witness to the truth. . Everyone who is Everyone who is of the truth hears My voiceof the truth hears My voice.”.”

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It is not “legalism” or “traditionalism” to It is not “legalism” or “traditionalism” to pursue a principled life based upon pursue a principled life based upon definitive answers found in the word of definitive answers found in the word of God.God.

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It is not “legalism” or “traditionalism” to It is not “legalism” or “traditionalism” to pursue a principled life based upon pursue a principled life based upon definitive answers found in the word of definitive answers found in the word of God.God.

New Testament Christians would have been New Testament Christians would have been startled that anyone would ever question the startled that anyone would ever question the need to seek the truth about all things God need to seek the truth about all things God revealed. revealed.

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Consider how the Apostle John described Consider how the Apostle John described Christians in Christians in 2 John. 2 John. Which is more Which is more important “unity” (union) or truth?important “unity” (union) or truth?

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2 John 1:1-4 (NKJV)2 John 1:1-4 (NKJV) - The Elder, To the - The Elder, To the elect lady and her children, elect lady and her children, whom I love in whom I love in truthtruth, and not only I, , and not only I, but also all those who but also all those who have known the truthhave known the truth, 2 because of , 2 because of the truth the truth which abides in uswhich abides in us and will be with us forever: and will be with us forever: 3 Grace, mercy, 3 Grace, mercy, andand peace will be with you peace will be with you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and lovein truth and love..

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4 I rejoiced greatly that I have found 4 I rejoiced greatly that I have found somesome of your children of your children walking in truthwalking in truth, as we , as we received commandment from the Father.received commandment from the Father.

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Later John plainly wrote that we need to Later John plainly wrote that we need to know if “we are of the truth.” know if “we are of the truth.” (1 Jn 3:19)(1 Jn 3:19)

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1 John 3:19 (NKJV)1 John 3:19 (NKJV) - And by this we - And by this we know that know that we are of the truthwe are of the truth, and shall , and shall assure our hearts before Him.assure our hearts before Him.

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We must not be afraid of open challenges We must not be afraid of open challenges and controversy.and controversy.

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When leaving liberalism I attempted to get When leaving liberalism I attempted to get others to open the Bible and discuss others to open the Bible and discuss differences, almost everyone refused and differences, almost everyone refused and most of those did so with anger.most of those did so with anger.

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When leaving liberalism I attempted to get When leaving liberalism I attempted to get others to open the Bible and discuss others to open the Bible and discuss differences, almost everyone refused and differences, almost everyone refused and most of those did so with anger.most of those did so with anger.

People who do not seek and fight for the People who do not seek and fight for the truth will not have it in their hearts. truth will not have it in their hearts. (Jn 3:19-21)(Jn 3:19-21)

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John 3:19-21 (NKJV)John 3:19-21 (NKJV) - And this is the - And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”have been done in God.”

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Those who are of the truth fight to keep a Those who are of the truth fight to keep a pure conscience. pure conscience. (Titus 1:14-16)(Titus 1:14-16)

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Titus 1:14-16 (NKJV)Titus 1:14-16 (NKJV) - not giving heed to - not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth. 15 To the pure all who turn from the truth. 15 To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled. their mind and conscience are defiled.

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16 They profess to know God, but in works 16 They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.work.

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A hardened heart does not care anymore. A hardened heart does not care anymore. They will use ridicule and name calling. They will use ridicule and name calling. (Ex. Discussion lists)(Ex. Discussion lists)

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I am seeing more and more cases where a I am seeing more and more cases where a Christian who questions a practice is Christian who questions a practice is branded as an “enforcer” or a branded as an “enforcer” or a troublemaker.” troublemaker.”

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I am seeing more and more cases where a I am seeing more and more cases where a Christian who questions a practice is Christian who questions a practice is branded as an “enforcer” or a branded as an “enforcer” or a troublemaker.” troublemaker.”

Those that are “of the truth” may come to Those that are “of the truth” may come to be pilgrims and strangers in churches that be pilgrims and strangers in churches that have long since departed from the truth!have long since departed from the truth!

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Are you seeing this kind of teaching where Are you seeing this kind of teaching where you attend? you attend?

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How many elderships are more interested in How many elderships are more interested in ‘keeping the peace” rather than “keeping ‘keeping the peace” rather than “keeping the Truth?” the Truth?” (1 Jn 2:3-6)(1 Jn 2:3-6)

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Who do I really want to have fellowship Who do I really want to have fellowship with?with?

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Who do I really want to have fellowship Who do I really want to have fellowship with?with?

While some say they want to be right with While some say they want to be right with God, they in fact want to please men. God, they in fact want to please men. (Gal 1:10)(Gal 1:10)

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Galatians 1:10 (NKJV)Galatians 1:10 (NKJV) - For do I now - For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.would not be a bondservant of Christ.

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While we may fool men, God knows our While we may fool men, God knows our heart!heart!

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I have talked with men about what was I have talked with men about what was right and what they needed to do. Even right and what they needed to do. Even though they have agreed with me, I have though they have agreed with me, I have often heard the refusal to stand rationalized often heard the refusal to stand rationalized like this: “It is hard to do what is right!”like this: “It is hard to do what is right!”

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I have talked with men about what was I have talked with men about what was right and what they needed to do. Even right and what they needed to do. Even though they have agreed with me, I have though they have agreed with me, I have often heard the refusal to stand rationalized often heard the refusal to stand rationalized like this: “It is hard to do what is right!”like this: “It is hard to do what is right!”

What will heaven be like?What will heaven be like?

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I have talked with men about what was right I have talked with men about what was right and what they needed to do. Even though and what they needed to do. Even though they have agreed with me, I have often heard they have agreed with me, I have often heard the refusal to stand rationalized like this: “It the refusal to stand rationalized like this: “It is hard to do what is right!”is hard to do what is right!”

What will heaven be like?What will heaven be like? It will be filled with men of faith who at It will be filled with men of faith who at

times had to stand alone. times had to stand alone. (Heb 11:32-38)(Heb 11:32-38)

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Hebrews 11:32-38 (NKJV)Hebrews 11:32-38 (NKJV) - And what - And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also Jephthah, also ofof David and Samuel and the David and Samuel and the prophets: …. 35 Women received their dead prophets: …. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again. Others were tortured, raised to life again. Others were tortured, not accepting deliverancenot accepting deliverance, that they might , that they might obtain a better resurrection. obtain a better resurrection.

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36 Still others had trial of mockings and 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37They were stoned, they were imprisonment. 37They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented—goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented—38 of whom the world was not worthy. They 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, wandered in deserts and mountains, inin dens and dens and caves of the earth.caves of the earth.

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Have you heard of these men? Have you heard of these men?

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Have you heard of these men? Have you heard of these men? Sethur? Sethur?

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Have you heard of these men? Have you heard of these men? Sethur? Sethur? Gaddiel? Gaddiel?

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Have you heard of these men? Have you heard of these men? Sethur? Sethur? Gaddiel? Gaddiel? Palti? Palti?

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Have you heard of these men? Have you heard of these men? Sethur? Sethur? Gaddiel? Gaddiel? Palti? Palti? Shaphat? Shaphat?

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Have you heard of these men? Have you heard of these men? Sethur? Sethur? Gaddiel? Gaddiel? Palti? Palti? Shaphat?Shaphat? Nahbi?Nahbi?

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How about these men? Caleb? Joshua?How about these men? Caleb? Joshua?