apat italian national agency for the protection of the...

APAT Italian National Agency for the Protection of the Environment and for Technical Services

Eco-label Presidential Meeting

Rome, 6-7 November 2003

Minutes First Day session: 6th of November 2003 Mr Cosimo Dell’Aria, Vice-President of the Italian Competent Body welcomes all participants, thanks them for their attendance at the Italian Presidential Meeting and gives the floor to Mr Giuseppe Lucchesi President of the Italian Competent Body. Mr Giuseppe Lucchesi, President of the Italian Competent Body states the importance of voluntary schemes such as Eco-label and EMAS for improving the environmental quality of products and services. He says that the new evolution in the environmental protection conception within the different European institutions, represents a cultural heritage of great interest for Italy which will be further increased both in consideration of the imminent enlargement of the European Union countries and in view of the new European Constitution that will most probably be approved during the Italian Presidency. He states that some concrete examples of this evolution are represented by the extension of EMAS to public administration, to territorial management, to schools, tourism and public services as well as to the production and distribution of farming productions. The extension of the European Eco-label to the tourist accommodation service also represents an important step towards the integration and the valorisation of possible synergies between both the schemes EMAS and the European Eco-label being the two basic stakeholders of the integrated product policy of the European Environment Action Plan. He recognises that in Italy these schemes have seen a difficult start. The first EMAS registration saw its birth only in December 1997 and the first Eco-labelled product was only awarded in 1998. Nevertheless this difficult situation of our country in the very beginning has steadily been improving in the recent years. Companies are moving towards a new way of managing their organizational structures and show a growing interest, especially in local authorities, provinces and municipalities, industrial districts, tourist poles, parks, mountain communities and in general in all those organizations that are to act in sometimes wider areas of our territory. He states that we can only wish that this new environment-oriented thinking, which is rapidly expanding, will further develop and contribute to a better quality of life in Italian and European countries.

Minutes of Eco-label Presidential Meeting, Rome 6-7 November 2003

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Mr Cosimo Dell’Aria, Vice-President of the Italian Competent Body thanks the President for his contribution and starts to outline future actions for the development of the European Eco-label in Italy also pointing out results already achieved by Italy. He thanks for the results achieved the Italian National Agency for the Protection of the Environment and for Technical Services (APAT) for its technical support and all different institutions and economic stakeholders as part of the scheme. The tehnical support carried out in Italy by a public and indipendent institution such as APAT gives particular credibility to the process in awarding the European Eco-label to companies. Italy has a great responsibility being the first European country with 34 licenses awarded. He says that companies licensed have increased from 5 to 34 and from 54 articles to 822 articles in the last three years (from 2000-2003). He says that there is the intention to continue in this effort and to this purpose the Italian Competent Body is intentioned to strenghten its presence in activities at European and at international level. He says that the Italian Competent Body has the intention to promote the eco-design in the country with the collaboration of the different associations, to promote at national level the unification process for volontary accreditation systems; and that it is also its intention to continue to work on the tourist service within the development of Eco-label criteria for the camp site service and in the promotion activities for the tourist accommodation service. He states that it is also important to concentrate efforts on green public procurement activities in order to make the most with eco-labelled product within the public procurement systems and to this purpose to study possible introductions in the financial law of measures to promote eco-labelled products. He thanks attendants for their attention and gives the floor to the next speaker Mr Nicola Tognana, Vice-President of Confindustria. Mr Nicola Tognana, Vice-President of Confindustria states that as representative of the Italian Industry Federation the environment is an important theme which is involving more and more industry. In the last two years the Italian industry has been involved in certification process such as EMAS. In this context thank to the project Eco-impresa we have at national level 2800 sites certified with ISO 14001 and 150 sites certified by EMAS but also thank to economic incentives which have been foreseen by the Ministry of productive activities for the small and medium enterprises. The European eco-label can play an important role above all within the Integrated Product Policy. This new strategy launched by the European Commission needs to garantie above all coordination and integration within the existing instruments also promoting existing tools. For the European eco-abel scheme it would be important to enforce the promotional activities but also to go beyond the concept of environmental eccellency in products promoting also a general improvement within the environmental characteristics of products. This will happen only if three basic conditions will be satisfied:


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1) Simplification of procedures forseen by the regulation in order to give more flexibility to the system and allow different kind of companies to participate to the scheme;

2) Promotion of demand towards environmental awarness and changes in behaviour; 3) Promotion of industrial policies that have special attention for the design phase in the

production process of a product in order to avoid environmental impacts since this production phase.

Referring to green public procurement activities he stresses the importance to keep this instrument as a voluntary instrument and in order to keep high levels of competitiveness. Mr Cosimo Dell’Aria, Vice-President of the Italian Competent Body thanks the Vice-President of Confindustria for his contribution and introduces the next speaker Mr Leonardo Soana – Director of ANCI Italian Footwear Industry Federation. Mr Leonardo Soana, Director of ANCI Italian Footwear Industry Federation illustrates the importance the Eco-label system has had since the development of the footwear industry. He says that his association has informed all the footwear industries, also giving technical support for the Eco-label application through the collaboration of CIMAC laboratory. The laboratory is an Eco-label accredit laboratory. He points out that principal problems for this sector are the different kind of types of footwear that have to be in line with the style and the seasons, the supply of the material and the different materials that are used. These problems have been partially solved with the creation of an ecological footwear model types. He states that an Eco-label footwear has a reduct environmental impact, is produced with new technologies and the perfomances are high, comfortable and long lasting. Mr Dell’Aria Burani, President of Italian Paper Industry Association illustrates his association which is composed by 90% of the Italian paper factories. He gives some data about the paper sector saying that the number of paper factories are over 200, the production in 2002 has been of over 9 million of tons of paper and carton. In terms of production Italy is placed after Germany, Sweden and Finland which that as you know the paper and wood industries are the most important sector of their countries. The paper factories together with the paper association has developped in the past years an environmental policy to define a sustainable development. The application of the policy has been significant in the water and energy consumption reduction. For example the water production has been reduced by 40% . Among the paper factories the toilet paper is an exception since the production for this sector is over 1,3 million of tons. Italy, he says, is the first at European level for this sector and most of these industries are certified with EU Eco-label.


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He explains that one critical element for the EU Eco-label is in criteria as if the criteria are too rigid there is a risk for a reduction of technology innovation and the development of new products, reducing at the same time those industries that have based their growth on the development and studies for new solution to be more competitive. Nevertheless he says that the Association believes on the European Eco-label as a valid instrument to promote the diffusion of ecological products adressed to the final consumer. He says that this is an European instrument which has credibility towards retailers and distribution chains. In this context a signal from the market seams to be promising. The only negative aspect is still the absence of consumer knowledge towards the Eco-label as consumers do not recognise easily the label. To increase the knowledge among consumers an economical incentive on this products will surely have a positive effects. Mr Cosimo Dell’Aria, Vice-President of the Italian Competent Body thanks the President of Italian Paper Industry Association and concerning the incentives he stresses that the Board of Confindustria, together with the Ministry of Environmental and Territory has carried out a type of incentive that were addressed to industries that wanted to join the EMAS scheme. He invites participants for a coffee break. Coffee break Mr Cosimo Dell’Aria, Vice-President of the Italian Competent Body introduces prof. Daniela Primicerio who is apart from the Ministry of Productive Activities and also the president of the National Council for Consumers. Ms Daniela Primicerio, President of Consumer National Council explains the functions and the activities undertaken in the Ministry, giving also further information about the National council for consumers and its rule in Italy for which she is the president. She gives evidence of the importance of the European Eco-label saying that it is an important instrument for consumers for the environmental protection. The importance is also due to the fact that this a volontary tool in which industry activities have found a variable, that not long time ago, the firm were not able to recognise: the environment. In the sense that the joint point between the demand curve and the supply, the equilibrium point and also considered like the exchange point, not long time ago, was influenced only by two variable the value sold and its price. But now industry considers also another variable: the quality variable which means social and environmental aspects. She says that there is availability from her general directorate that she coordinates in helping the Eco-label process also in establishing new products.


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Mr Cosimo Dell’Aria, Vice-President of the Italian Competent Body thanks Prof. Primicerio for the contribution and introduce the Minister of Productive Activities Mr Antonio Marzano. Mr Antonio Marzano, Minister of Productive Activities explains the competences of the Ministry of Production Activity, the ex Ministry of the Industry, in the Italian context and its steps undertaken in the past years towards a sustainable development of industry processes. He points out the growth f the Eco-label in Italy: in April 2000 there were 5 licences with 54 items and in October 2003 the licences have become 34 with 822 items. He stresses as today Italy is the first Member State for number of Eco-label licences at European level and this position will increase in the next future due to the new awards in the hard floor covering ceramic tiles product group and with tourism service. This tool is a volontary tool for companies but public institutions can push its implementation by means of correct incentives. Objectives for the next three years are: first of all the integration of different tools available, such as Emas, Eco-label, GPP, DAP, ISO labelling in a sinergic way; correct information to companies, organisations, consumers, potential stakeholders; promotional activities for the development of environmental tools with marketing techniques; improvement of the capacity for providing services, also improving the effectiveness of internal and external communication processes; to support the system by ensuring participation at international working groups of national experts, by developing studies in order to promote ecological criteria. These are important actions to be undeertaken in order to improve our competitiveness at national and international levels. Mr Cosimo Dell’Aria, Vice-President of the Italian Competent Body thanks the Minister and invite participants to have a lunch break. Lunch break Mr Cosimo Dell’Aria, Vice-President of the Italian Competent Body invites Mr Francesco Tarisciotti responsible of the Eco-label Sector of APAT to take the floor. Mr Francesco Tarisciotti, Responsible of the Eco-label Sector of APAT explains the Eco-label scheme and its position and evolution in Italy. The presentation is done by power point, see slides in annexe 1. Mr Cosimo Dell’Aria, Vice-President of the Italian Competent Body thanks Mr Tarisciotti and introduces Mr Tassinari President for COOP, Italian retailer.


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Mr Vincenzo Tassinari, President of COOP Italy describes COOP, the first Italian retailer that represents the 17 % of the Italian market. He says as in the past COOP has undertaken different challenges on important topic for the protection of the environment. In these days COOP Adriatica has obtained the Ethic & World award. The item of this project was to realize a stores taking into consideration environmental aspects. The COOP label for products certifies the quality, the modern-ness and the respect of the environment. In this way, with our products, we respect the needs of the consumers to pay more attention to the protection of the environment and of course we need to promote our products not only through advertising but also through a correct environmental information and education that has to be given to consumers. For this reason, he says, COOP is proceeding towards the certification for its environmental compatibility. Mr Cosimo Dell’Aria, Vice-President of the Italian Competent Body thanks Mr Tassinari and gives the floor to Mr Ion Gonos Director of Sunwing Hotel – Greece, the first Hotel labelled with the EU Eco-label. Mr Ion Gonos, Director of Director of Sunwing Hotel explains the experience done by the hotel in obtaining the European Eco-label. The presentation is done by power point, see slides in annexe 2. Mr Cosimo Dell’Aria, Vice-President of the Italian Competent Body thanks Mr Ion Gonos for its stimulating contribution and gives the floor to Mr Angelo Macola President of Environmental camping Sites Association. Mr Angelo Macola, President of Environmental camping Sites Association describes the experience made by its Association in the certification process within the Veneto region. The aim of this process, he says, was to obtain ISO 14001 certification among the camp sites. He explains that being its clients mostly form the North Europe, Germany, especially, Netherlands they are more interested in EMAS and ISO 14001 as they already recognise these kind of certification. He says that the result of the project was positive since it was considered one of the best project among 30 projects presented in tourism and it was also recognised by UNEP, the ONU agency for the environment. He expresses his interest in the European Eco-label and his availability to collaborate in the definition process for criteria development and future initiatives.


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Mr Cosimo Dell’Aria, Vice-President of the Italian Competent Body thanks Mr Macola for his availability and introduces the Undersecretary of the Ministry of the Environment Mr Tortoli. Mr Roberto Tortoli, Undersecretary of the Ministry of the Environment thanks the President of the Italian Competent Body. He recognises that also public institutions are entering in the sustainable development era, but not without some delay in comparison to industry federations. He says that it is fundamental to promote green products and he recognises that the Ministry has not done enough in past years to promote these products. In fact it is important to create a positive environmental knowledge among citizens and this should done through education and information. He wishes that this gap will be soon overcome even with a very close cooperation in marketing activities with the firms to promote a product that has to be environmentally correct conserving also quality. Mr Cosimo Dell’Aria, Vice-President of the Italian Competent Body thanks the Undersecretary and all the speakers for their contribution and ends the meeting inviting all participants to the social dinner. End of the First Day session.

APAT Italian National Agency for the Protection of the Environment and for Technical Services

Second Day session: 7th of November 2003 Mr Cosimo Dell’Aria, Vice-President of the Italian Competent Body welcomes all participants, wishes an interesting meeting and gives the floor to the representative of the European Commission for an update on the product group Furniture. Mr Michele Accardo, representative from European Commission states that a new draft of criteria for furniture which takes into consideration all comments made during the last EUEB meeting in September will be available in next days. This also means the intention of the European Commission to vote the criteria on furniture in the next Regulatory Committee meeting on December. He gives explanation concerning technical aspects. Mr Cosimo Dell’Aria, Vice-President of the Italian Competent Body Thanks the Commission for clarifications and gives the floor to Ms Regien van der Sijp for the discussion on the first management group on coordination and cooperation. Ms Regien van der Sĳp, representative from the Netherlands Competent Body expresses her admiration on how the programme has been conducted and wishes the same thing for the meeting of today. She gives the floor to Ms Maaike Fleur. Ms Maaike Fleur, representative from the Netherlands Competent Body highlights the previous work made by Sweden making a presentation and asking for comments point by point to participants. The first point is the creation of a central register of product groups and criteria. It has become a very extensive list. Ms Kerstin Salhén, representative from the Swedish Competent Body recommends not to concentrate too much effort on this list because of the existence also of other useful lists. Ms Maaike Fleur, representative from the Netherlands Competent Body thanks for this consideration and presents the second point: a discussion on the mechanisms for coordination on work programmes and exchange of information.


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This mechanisms has created a list of products and criteria on which different systems are working on and with the purpose to save resourses also by means of exchange of information. This list needs to be updated every year. The European Commission will be responsible for this. Ms Maaike Fleur, representative from the Netherlands Competent Body remembers as principle that even if the European Commission provides the Secretariat for the EUEB and coordinate, Member States need to provide data and informations. She introduces the third point: the evaluation of the situation of every product group and every Eco-labelling scheme. In order to coordinate revision of criteria for different product groups in the national schemes. The fourth point is to harmonize the different DID list between national schemes such as the Nordic Swan and the European Eco-label. It has been done an extensive study which is now almost completed and the work is in progress. The fifth point is to examine the possibility of mutual recognition and credit of use of labelled products. Sweden has provided us with a discussion document and we have discussed this in the coordination/cooperation group. We have discussed all the pros and cons of mutual recognition. And we now know all the disadvantages and advantages of mutual recognition. But the conclusion was that this is not yet the moment for the actual mutual recognition. Ms Kerstin Salhén, representative from the Swedish Competent Body recommends not to delete this point and to come back working on this. Ms Maaike Fleur, representative from the Netherlands Competent Body introduces the sixth point: coordination with the work of Global Eco-labelling Network (GEN) and asks information on the last meeting held in Prague on October to Representative of the Eco-labelling Denmark Ms Lisbeth Engel Hansen. Ms Lisbeth Engel Hansen, representative from the Eco-labelling Denmark says that the most important item, discussed which is also related to mutual recognition, has been that the GEN will try to develop some kind of global Eco-labelling system. She says that some of the items suggested to work with during the next eighteen months are excellent bases for a new discussion and new recognition. Because of the need of more knowledge before making any decision. Ms Maaike Fleur, representative from the Netherlands Competent Body thanks for this contribution and introduces the seventh point which is a discussion on the discount for many labels on the same product. This point has been laid down in a new Commission decision in which has


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been recognised a 30% discount of the annual turnover when a product has a national label. This point has therefore been concluded. The eighth point, and last point, undertaken by Sweden during the chairing of the Co & Co Management Group is the harmonisation of test methods. Referring to this point the conclusion is that it is not really suitable for the cooperation and coordination management group. She continues with the list of possible points to be undertaken by Netherlands during the next 18th months and asking for comments on that. The first point is the fast track approach for the European Eco-label based on national scheme product groups. Netherlands has already started to work on the product group lubricants experimenting the fast track approach. In the Co & Co Management Group has been discussed also some other product groups that were possible product groups to be taken up into the European criteria such as for instance, shampoos and batteries. The second point is the selection of test laboratories by competent bodies. All the competent bodies are organized in a different way. Some are very closely related to governmental authorities and are a more governmental organization. And others are more private organizations. One of discussion point is how the competent bodies select the test laboratories. Ms Patricia Proïa, representative from the French Competent Body states that the choise depends on the product group as in France there are laboratories specialised for different product groups which are not necessarly comformed to the standard ISO 17025 for laboratories. She also states that the most relevant problem for laboratories is the cost of accreditation. Laboratories do not ask for accreditation as they do not have enough test to make. She also expresses her interest in knowing how is the situation in other countries. Mr Samo Kopac, representative from the Ministry of Environment of Slovenia suggests to consider the standards EN 45011 which gives some advice on how to choose laboratories. Mr Henning Scholtz, representative from the RAL states that the selection of test institutes is not the only problem as if testing is too expensive this will imply the lost of potential applicants. In this sense it would be better accept more laboratories that can offer different prices. Ms Patricia Proïa, representative from the French Competent Body says that as there are two standards one ISO 17025 for laboratories and one EN 4501 for competent body and that would be interesting to discuss which are the tests mandatory to be made by external laboratories and which kind of tests can be made by laboratories internal to the producer.


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Mr Guido Lena, representative from the UEAPME says that SMEs have lots of problems with the costs for tests also due to the fact that few of them have their own internal labs, so they are obliged to go outside. So it will be interesting to try and see where it’s possible maybe to make conventions or agreements between national test laboratories and maybe SME associations in the member states in order to guarantie a minimum number of tests and to establish a special price. Ms Maaike Fleur, representative from the Netherlands Competent Body suggests to investigate the costs for tests in different countries starting with a product group . Mr Henning Scholtz, representative from the RAL states that it is very important to have the contribution as a member of the Small and Medium Enterprises and encourage the organisation to join any possible activity in this sense. Mr Cosimo Dell’Aria, Vice-President of the Italian Competent Body points out that in Italy there is a national accreditation system for laboratories. The system is ruled by the Ministry of Productive Activities by means of a technical body which carries out periodical controls. Ms Maaike Fleur, representative from the Netherlands Competent Body stresses the fact that it seems that in every country there is a different method of choosing the test laboratories, and therefore it is sensitive that this point will be take up in the Co & Co Management Group. She introduces the third point which is ways of organization of stakeholder involvement in the different member states. As every competent body has its own way of organization to involve different stakeholders in the criteria development, she expresses the intention to make a small questionnaire. She introduces the fourth point which is the verification procedures that are being used by the competent bodies in order to avoid that might be differences in difficulty in obtaining the European Eco-label. Ms Patricia Proïa, representative from the French Competent Body states that this is a very important issue as it is necessary to try to harmonize way of verification and this is also the reason why France asked, in the revision, to try to be conform to the 45011 about the organization of competent body. Ms Maaike Fleur, representative from the Netherlands Competent Body continues to the next point which is a common complaint procedure and its advantages and disadvantages. At the moment it is not clear for stakeholders or manufacturers or consumers where they can put their complaint if they don’t agree with a certain decision and how this should be handled.


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Ms Charlotte De Roo, representative from the BEUC says that she believe that consumers, if they today have any comment on the Eco-label, they express it buying or not buying the Eco-label product so she thinks that the individual consumer is not a problem here. Ms Patricia Proïa, representative from the French Competent Body says that it is important for Competent Bodies to treat complains coming both from consumers and from producers but she is not sure if is possible to have a common procedure as each country has its own regulation. Ms Lisbeth Engel Hansen, representative from the Eco-labelling Denmark says that the interventions made show that it is necessary a clarification on which kind of complaint we are talking. Ms Maaike Fleur, representative from the Netherlands Competent Body suggests to make a short information paper to consider which kind of complaints we could consider. Ms Stefania Minestrini, representative from the APAT says that attention should also addressed to the relationship between the Competent Body and the company as some times companies use in a not adeguate way the Eco-label. She suggests to consider the possibility to have a common procedure for Competent Bodies to face the not appropriate use of the Eco-label from the companies. Mr Henning Scholtz, representative from the RAL says that in view of the possibility to have procedures before starting to discuss on that it is essential define the kind of complaint we consider. Mr Guido Lena, representative from the UEAPME says that there is another kind of complaint from companies which is in the case there is a rejection of the application from a Competent Body. It could be useful to streamline this kind of complaint for applicants. Ms Maaike Fleur, representative from the Netherlands Competent Body says that first it would be useful to verify the different kind of complaint procedures already in place and than to compare them. Ms Charlotte De Roo, representative from the BEUC states that there are already legislation in Europe to protect the consumer and procedure he can use and he should use for complaints. She expresses interest in knowing which kind of complaints consumer have made about the European Eco-label. She says that it would be important not to make a double procedure.


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Ms Maaike Fleur, representative from the Netherlands Competent Body says that from the discussion it is interesting to take up this point in the the Co & Co Management Group and she introduces the next point which is the encouragement of recognition of the various national labels. She says that the point was brought up by Germany: a pool of experience for best practice of cooperation. She also asks for the possibility to share information on the answers sent by Competent Bodies to the European Commission following a letter from EC Ms. Frommer which was asking how member states which have national schemes deals with the differences between the national label and the European label. Ms Nicola Breier representative from the European Commission explains that the idea behind the letter was to make more transparent to the outside world what are the activities on cooperation and coordination putting also best practices on the website in order to give more visibility to the work done. She will update Ms Maaike Fleur on that at the next Cooperation and Coordination Group meeting. Ms Maaike Fleur, representative from the Netherlands Competent Body thanks the Commission and explaines the next point which is the possibility to learn from pilot study “all-purpose cleaners and hand dishwashing detergents” to develop criteria simultaneously or revise simultaneously the criteria for Nordics Swan and the European Eco-label. She asks also to participants if there is any other point to add or any other ideas. Ms Kerstin Salhén, representative from the Swedish Competent Body says that it would be very intreresting knowing how the Competent Bodies are organised in each country in terms of responsabilities, decisions and etc. This information could be very useful for the future base and for for the revision of the regulation, as well and the Co & Co Group is a basic management group who helps the other groups. Ms Maaike Fleur, representative from the Netherlands Competent Body agrees with the proposal. Mr Björn Erik Lönn. representative from the Nordic Swan, recommends to keep the original purpose of the cooperation and coordination management group which was not only working on issues between member states and competent bodies but above all on cooperation and coordination between EU label and the national/regional labels.


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Ms Maaike Fleur, representative from the Netherlands Competent Body thanks for the contribution and stress the point that it is also very important to learn from national schemes in order to use this information for the European eco-label. Ms Nicola Breier, representative from the European Commission proposes that the Cooperation & Coordination Group should also look at how to deal with the issue of cooperation and coordination in the next revision of the scheme. Ms Maaike Fleur, representative from the Netherlands Competent Body thanks for this contribution and agrees with the proposal. Mr Charles Cox, representative from the UK Competent Body agrees with the proposal. He says that as we are today talking about harmonization between the procedures of different competent bodies running the E.U. scheme this point is especially relevant because one of the things that the Policy Management Group is looking at is whether, for example, there might be some kind of body actually running the E.U. scheme centrally and what ways there might be for harmonizing procedures to the extent that procedures are all actually centralized in one single administrative body. It’s only an option at the moment and it hasn’t been properly discussed. But in view of Commission’s proposal, it is very relevant that the Cooperation/Coordination Management Group and the Policy Management Group work closely on these issues of harmonization, right up to the point where one might envisage the whole administrative procedure being put into one single body. Ms Maaike Fleur, representative from the Netherlands Competent Body thanks for the contribution suggested and adds to try to identify points that could be shifted to the Coordination/Cooperation Group to find practical information to feed the discussion in the Policy Management Group. Ms Regien van der Sĳp, representative from the Netherlands Competent Body thanks again Sweden for the excellent work done and offer a small present to the representative of the Swedish Competent Body Ms Kerstin Salhén. Mr Cosimo Dell’Aria, Vice-President of the Italian Competent Body concludes the first part of the meeting inviting participants to have a coffee break. Coffee break


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Mr Cosimo Dell’Aria, Vice-President of the Italian Competent Body invites participants to the second part of the meeting and gives the floor to the representative of the French Competent Body Ms Patricia Proïa. Ms Patricia Proïa, representative from the French Competent Body explains the purpose of the marketing management group to increase the visibility of the European label. She also describes the new Life project European Flower Week that will take place mostly in the year 2004. She points out the importance of indicators for showing the visibility of the European Eco-label such as the number of articles sold, numbers of licenses, numbers of product groups, the annual turnover. She states that there is still an important need in improving information on visibility. She says that Italy has asked to have a discussion about the possibility to introduce an indicator on the number of eco-labelled products and gives the floor to Stefania Minestrini representative from APAT. Ms Stefania Minestrini, representative from the APAT points out the importance to have information on eco-labelled products for the next marketing activities in the year 2004 and refers to the APAT proposal for the definition of an eco-labelled product for marketing purpose asking for comments on that. Mr Jørgen Toldsted, representative from the Eco-labelling Denmark points out difficulties in having both information on eco-labelled products and on eco-labelled articles sold and in the case of products it is even more difficult due to consumers perspective which is in most cases different from production perspective. He says that it would be also difficult to ask to producers to define the product according to the proposal and suggests to extend the discussion in the coordination/cooperation management group. Ms Stefania Minestrini, representative from the APAT points out that what is requested within the proposal is an agreementr between Competents Bodies avoiding producer definitions. She says that what is needed is a common procedure between Competent Bodies for counting eco-labelled products and it would be interesting to have a consumer perspective in its definition. Ms Patricia Proïa, representative from the French Competent Body stresses the existence of two aspects. The first one is the communication towards consumers and the second one is the communication within Competent Bodies and in this second case an agreement on definition can be found. She says that it would be interesting to know how Competent Bodies count their products.


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Ms Stefania Minestrini, representative from the APAT agrees with the suggestion of Patricia Proïa of knowing methods used for counting eco-labelled products by different Competent Bodies and than to raise the discussion on these information in order to choose a common methodology. Ms Patricia Proïa, representative from the French Competent Body continues with her presentation about improving the visibility of European Eco-label (see also slides). An element very important she says is the knowledge of national markets for each product group, for instance the presence of laboratories available for tests for different products groups. Ms Stefania Minestrini, representative from the APAT thanks Patricia Proïa for the presentation and comments on the risk of lack of laboratories to carry out tests. She says that it would be important to consider the presence of laboratories already in the definition process of criteria when test are defined. Furthermore it would be important a verification from Competent Bodies on the real presence at national level of these laboratories in order to avoid difficulties to companies in their application process for the European Eco-label. Mr Guido Lena, representative from the UEAPME stresses the fact that most SMEs have problems in finding laboratories and also in costs for tests. He expresses the availability of his organisation in working in collaboration with the marketing management group in order to overcome these difficulties. Ms Stephanie Carette, representative from the Belgian Federal Public service for Health and Environment stresses the importance for communication to know products available on the market. She stresses the need for the Belgian Competent Body to know the eco-labelled products imported in Belgium with the help of other Competent Bodies. Shes says also that her organisation is developing didactic box on the life cycle of paper for the children from 10 to 12 years and she states her availability in presenting the box in the next Marketing Group in December. Ms Nicola Breier, representative from the European Commission reminds to participants that the Commission is collecting data yearly. Right now information are on data concerning 2002. She reminds that the Commission needs data on 2003 for outside communication and also for inside communication and ask to who have not provided yet the data to provide them. Ms Lisbeth Engel Hansen, representative from the Eco-labelling Denmark explains that Denmark has tried to collect data but due to difficulties encountered by companies in providing data the availability of data is still missing.


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Ms Stefania Minestrini, representative from the APAT says that coming back to methods to define an eco-labelled product a concrete proposal could be to collect information between Competent Bodies during November in order to discuss results in the next marketing management group on December. Ms Patricia Proïa, representative from the French Competent Body agrees with this proposal. Mr Cosimo Dell’Aria, Vice-President of the Italian Competent Body gives the floor to the representative of the UK Competent Body for the discussion on items related to the Policy Management Group. Mr Charles Cox, representative from the UK Competent Body gives a short introduction and presentation of the work done in the Policy Management Group and introduces the discussion on items proposed by Italy. Mr Cosimo Dell’Aria, Vice-President from the Italian Competent Body says that the first item, , which proposes that at least 20% of the annual fee should go to Eco-label promotional activities, is certainly provocative. In Italy the Eco-label system is financed by the State. The Italian Competent Body is obliged to give the annual fee received from companies to the State and therefore there are no funds for promotional activities. The question is how to tackle this. Keeping the 20% of resources in the budget for promotional activities would be not an important contribution but could be sufficient for the Italian system. Another solution could be special Government-backed advertising campaigns.. Ms Nicola Breier, representative from the European Commission says that from the Commission’s point of view she can very much support this provocative idea. Ms Patricia Proïa, representative from the French Competent Body says that she cannot support this idea because of the low income France receives from fees paid by companies. A possible way of finding resources could be by involving producers which have been awarded the Eco-label in promotional activities. Mr Charles Cox, representative from the UK Competent Body thanks France and says that this item will be suggested to Robert Nuij, who’s working on suggestions for future papers. He introduces the second item, about extending the scope of the European Eco-label, and gives the floor to Italy for explanation.


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Ms Stefania Minestrini, representative from the APAT thanks Mr Cox and introduces the item. The proposal is to consider extending the scope of the European Eco-label to intermediate products. There are some cases in which the final producer is not interested in getting the label but producers of intermediate products, which are very close to the final product, are interested, as in the textile product group. Ms Leena Nyqvist-Kuusola, representative from the Finnish Competent Body states that it is already possible to award the Eco-label to textile intermediate products. Ms Patricia Proïa, representative from the French Competent Body says that it is a good idea which has already been taken up by the national labels.. She recommends considering how to deal with annual fees. Mr Henning Scholtz, representative from the German Competent Body says that the correct place in which to consider this possibility is when criteria are developed. Ms Lisbeth Frisenborg, representative from the Danish Competent Body says that today we can already award the Flower to intermediate products for textiles and the fee aspects are already considered. She says that major difficulties are related to marketing aspects as we have to answer the question of how to market intermediate products with a logo - for example in textiles, how can we market fibres? Mr Charles Cox, representative from the UK Competent Body thanks speakers for their for contributions and adds that although we have an example in textiles, textiles is a slightly unusual product group. And there are areas where we might think of criteria more in terms of intermediate products and indeed related products. He suggests developing this issue in the prioritisation study and introduces the third item for discussion, inviting Italy to explain it. Ms Stefania Minestrini, representative from the APAT thanks the UK and introduces the item. She says that the third item is about integrated product policy, which requires different tools to be used in an integrated way. In this context Competent Bodies could have a major role because they coordinate at least two important tools used by companies, the European Eco-label and EMAS. There are also other tools such as environmental product declarations and LCA methodology which have complementary roles to each other and which could be coordinated by Competent Bodies in the different countries. She says that in Italy there is already good coordination between the European Eco-label and EMAS as the Italian Competent Body is responsible for both tools. She


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says that the next revision of the Eco-label regulation should consider the possibility of Competent Bodies playing a greater part in coordinating the various tools. Mr Charles Cox, representative from the UK Competent Body says that this issue is something that the Policy Management Group is looking at together with the Commission in the ongoing work on improving the efficiency of the Eco-label scheme. Ms Patricia Proïa, representative from the French Competent Body says that it is a very interesting idea to try to have a Competent Body which can manage different environmental initiatives but she also points out that the organization of each Competent Body is relevant as there are private organizations, as in France, that cannot award EMAS for instance. Ms Lisbeth Engel Hansen, representative from the Danish Competent Body states that the discussion should also consider the role of Competent Bodies and the European Flower in relation to Eco-labelling systems outside Europe. She refers to the GEN meeting in Prague where few Competent Bodies were present. She says that it is also important that the European Eco-label is represented at international level and suggests this as a new area to consider: how the Flower should be represented at global level in the future. Mr Charles Cox, representative from the UK Competent Body introduces the fourth point, certifying Competent Bodies in accordance with ISO standards, and invites Italy to explain its point of view. Ms Stefania Minestrini, representative from the APAT points out that this item has been already discussed during meetings and that presentations on the ISO standards have also been made. She explains that Italy is in favour of Competent Bodies being certified in accordance with ISO standards in order to guarantee greater efficiency and effectiveness in their activities. Ms Patricia Proïa, representative from the French Competent Body says that France supports the idea of certification to ISO 45-011 for Competent Bodies because it would mean consistent ways of working, with the same procedures for certification, checking, etc. She also states that because different organisations act as Competent Bodies there could be difficulties, especially for public institutions. Mr Samo Kopač, representative from the Slovenian Competent Body says that he strongly supports the proposal that the revision of the regulation should consider whether Competent Bodies should comply with EN ISO 45-011. He explains that this does not mean that Competent Bodies should actually be accredited, but that they should comply with ISO standards. He says that


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it would not be a problem even for governmental institutions because ECA (European Cooperation for Accreditation) has prepared guidelines expressly for governmental institutions. Ms Lisbeth Engel Hansen, representative from the Danish Competent Body says that this is a very big step considering the fact that we even do not know the verification procedures of each Competent Body. She thinks that accreditation is a long term vision and she suggests focusing more on aspects such as common rules for verification. Mr Charles Cox, representative from the UK Competent Body thanks participants for their contribution and introduces the last discussion item which is the possibility of involving other bodies in the EUEB, such as those responsible for public procurement, as well as the media. Mr Cosimo Dell’Aria, Vice-President of the Italian Competent Body thanks Mr Cox and says that Italy is in favour of promoting the European Eco-label not only to the final consumer but also by their involvement in the process of criteria definition and development.. Therefore a direct dialogue with consumer associations and the media can further stimulate promotional activities. Ms Patricia Proïa, representative from the French Competent Body says that France is in favour of discussing with the media the promotion of the European Eco-label but it depends on how the media is involved. She would be against the involvement of the media at the EUEB meetings or at working groups as the message they get about the label might not be positive. Ms Nicola Breier, representative from the European Commission states that these ideas seem to reflect the way the German label is organized as it involves all relevant stakeholders in its jury. The principle is to involve stakeholders who are potential multipliers for the instrument in society. Including some people from the media does not in fact imply that reporting is e always very positive because there is journalistic criticism. She says that in any case we also have some external stakeholders already in the EUEB, who do not only present positive messages about our European Eco-label to the outside world and in the media. She says that it’s a good idea to involve a wider circle – it could be a little risky but sometimes it’s worth taking the risk. Mr Cosimo Dell’Aria, Vice-President of the Italian Competent Body concludes the meeting, thanking the Commission and all participants for taking part in the Presidential meeting. He hopes that all participants have had a nice stay in Rome and invites them to come back again to Italy, particularly when the Italian Competent Body will start awarding the European Eco-label to tourist accommodations.


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He says that in Italy there is strong involvement both in EMAS and in the Eco-label and that the Italian Competent Body is available to discuss the best solutions for the new revision of the Eco-label regulation and all other relevant issues. He says that the Italian Competent Body intends to promote the European Eco-label strongly and hopes that the European Commission and other Member States will all join Italy in this task. He thanks all participants again looking forward to see them again in the near future. End of Second Day session LIST OF ANNEXES: Annexe 1: Presentation made by Mr Francesco Tarisciotti - APAT Annexe 2: Presentation made by Mr Ion Gonos – Sunwing Resort - MyTravel Group Annexe 3: Presentation made by Ms Maaike Fleur - Netherlands Competent Body Annexe 4: Presentation made by Ms Patricia Proïa – French Competent Body Annexe 5: Presentation made by Mr Charles Cox – UK Competent Body

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