AN INTERVIEW WITH DON GREEN

Interviewer: Jewell Willhite

Oral History Project

Endacott Society

University of Kansas

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DON GREEN

B.S., Petroleum Engineering, University of Tulsa, 1955

M.S., Chemical Engineering, University of Oklahoma, 1959

Ph.D., Chemical Engineering, University of Oklahoma, 1963

Service at the University of Kansas

First came to KU in 1964

Assistant Professor, 1964-1967

Associate Professor, 1967-1971

Professor, 1971-1982

Conger-Gabel Distinguished Professor of Chemical and Petroleum Engineering, 1982-1995

Deane E. Ackers Distinguished Professor of Chemical and Petroleum Engineering 1996-2009

University of Kansas Tertiary Oil Recovery Project Co-Director, 1974-2007

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AN INTERVIEW WITH DON GREEN

Interviewer: Jewell Willhite

Q: I am speaking with Don Green, who retired in 2009 as the Dean E. Ackers distinguished

professor of Chemical and Petroleum Engineering at the University of Kansas. We are in

Lawrence, Kansas, on June 16, 2009. Don has already prepared extensive amounts of

written information, which I will include, but he has some other things to say as well.

Let’s start out by talking about your early life.

A: I was born July 8, 1932 in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and raised in Tulsa, when Tulsa truly was an

oil town. My father was Earl Leslie Green. He was born in a small town in Texas, 50

miles northeast of Dallas. His parents were small farmers near Celeste, Texas, a town of

about 700 people northeast of Dallas. He had some business education and was a bank

teller at Tulsa National Bank.

My mother was Erma Pansy Brackins. She was born in a small town in northeast

Oklahoma. Her father worked in the oil fields and at odd jobs. He had small businesses

from time to time, a grocery store, filling station, and a dairy farm. She was a supervisor

of a school cafeteria for the Tulsa Public Schools.

My brother is Terry Albert Green, born October 31, 1934 in Tulsa. He has a B.S.

degree in business from the University of Tulsa. He worked as a contract manager for a

defense company, after serving four years in the Air Force. He was also involved with

small businesses, a rental agency and gourmet popcorn production and distribution. He

married JoAnn and they have one son, Terry. He currently lives near Hilton Head Island,

SC.

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My sister is Linda Beth Green. She was born in Tulsa, March 4, 1945. She has a

law degree from the University of Tulsa. She taught in Southwestern Law School, Los

Angeles, California. She married Bob Willett. They have two adopted children, Sara and

Alex. They live in Pasadena, CA and have a second home outside of Estes Park, CO,

near our second home.

Q: Where did you go to high school?

A: I went to Will Rogers High School where I was a good student and excelled in

mathematics. During high school I decided to become a petroleum engineer. I was

Junior-Class president and graduated in 1950. There were 600 students in my class.

Q: I’ve heard you were pretty good at baseball.

A: I started playing baseball in a Tulsa city league at the age of 12. I played third base for

an American Legion team when I was 17. The team won the State Championship. I was

named Most Valuable Player at the state tournament. I also played at Will Rogers High

School, second and third base and was named to an All-State team as a senior. I still hold

the record for highest batting average at Will Rogers. I played on the freshman team at

Oklahoma State my freshman year and then transferred to Tulsa University my

sophomore year and sat out one year (NCAA rules). During my junior and senior years I

played third base on the varsity team. My senior year I was named to second team All

American. When my sons were growing up, I coached Little League Baseball.

Q: What can you tell me about your undergraduate years?

A: From 1950-51 when I was a freshman at Oklahoma State I enrolled in Petroleum

Engineering option in Mechanical Engineering. I joined Sigma Chi Fraternity. When I

transferred to Tulsa University my sophomore year, I enrolled in Petroleum Engineering.

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I was in Air Force ROTC. I was active in Sigma Chi fraternity and was president of the

fraternity for one year. Academic and baseball scholarships helped finance my education

and I also worked part time. Pat and I were married during the fall semester of my fifth

year at the university. I graduated with a B.S. degree in Petroleum Engineering in 1955.

Q: What can you tell me about Pat?

A: Patricia Louise Polston was born March 10, 1934 in Tulsa, OK. She has a B.S. in

Sociology, and an M.S. in Social Welfare from the University of Kansas. She was a

counselor for alcoholism and drug abuse for many years. She had her own counseling

service for several years. Pat is an outstanding seamstress. She sews for herself and the

grandchildren, especially the granddaughters.

Q: What did you do after you finished your undergraduate degree?

A: I was called to active duty in November of 1955 and was stationed at Suffolk County Air

Force Base near Riverhead, NY. This is on Long Island, about 80 miles east of New

York City. Being a Midwesterner, the East Coast was the last place in the world I wanted

to be stationed. But it turned out to be a great location and assignment. I was a non-

flying officer because I was near sighted. Initially, I was a 2nd

Lieutenant and then was

promoted to 1st Lieutenant. My first job was Petroleum Supply Officer for the base. So

for one year I was a glorified filling station attendant. But overall the experience was an

excellent one. The Air Force placed a lot of responsibility on its young officers, and it

was an experience that really helped me to mature and gain some management skills.

Later I was a Personnel Officer and then a Personnel Services officer. I was on active

duty for two years. Pat was with me throughout this period.

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While in the Air Force, I thought a lot about my career plans. At one time I

thought seriously about going to medical school but instead decided to go to graduate

school in chemical engineering.

Q: Where did you go to graduate school?

A: I enrolled in the chemical engineering program at the University of Oklahoma for the

spring semester, 1958. I earned an M.S. Degree in 1959 under Professor Richard

Huntington and a Ph.D. Degree in 1963.

My doctoral research topic was heat transfer in porous media, still pursing my

interest in petroleum engineering. My experience as a doctoral student was an excellent

one, and it is probably through that experience that I decided to become a professor

(although that decision was not actually made until a year after I had completed Ph.D.

requirements). My favorite mentors, who had the most influence on me were Professors

Bob Perry, Cedomir Shepcievich, and Jack Powers. I truly developed a close relationship

with Bob and hated to part company when my degree requirements were completed in

1962. Later I assisted Bob Perry on the 4th

edition of the Chemical Engineer’s

Handbook.

Our oldest son Guy Leslie Green, was born Nov. 4, 1961, while we were in

Norman, OK. He now lives in Seattle, WA. His wife Aina is from Norway. Their

daughter Erika is 16 and son Tomas is 14. Guy has a B.S. in Petroleum Engineering and

an M.S. in Environmental Engineering, from the University of Kansas. He is a registered

Professional Engineer. Guy is Chief, Design Branch, Construction Division of the US

Corp of Engineers in Seattle.

Q: What did you do after you finished your Ph.D. work?

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A: After my Ph.D. work was complete, I joined Continental Oil Co. as a research engineer in

the Petroleum Production Research Division in their laboratory at Ponca City, Oklahoma.

During my two years there, the main focus was petroleum reservoir computer simulation.

Don Michael Green, our middle son, was born Jan. 7, 1964, in Ponca City, OK.

His wife is Susan and their daughters are Sally, 5, and Anne, 3. Mike has a B.S. in

Journalism from the University of Kansas and a Law degree from the University of

Missouri, Kansas City, MO. He is Assistant US Attorney (Prosecutor), Western

Division, Missouri, US Department of Justice.

. It was while at Conoco that a decision was made to try to become a professor. I

contacted my mentors at OU and they helped me obtain campus interviews. KU was a

perfect match for me because the department offered undergraduate and graduate

degrees, both in chemical and petroleum engineering. I was offered a position and joined

the faculty as an assistant professor for the 1964-1965 academic year. I was promoted to

associate professor in 1967 and to full professor in 1971.

Charles Patrick Green was born Oct. 11, 1966, in Lawrence. His wife is Tiffany.

They have a daughter Riley, 7, and a son, Ryan, 5. Patrick has a B.S. in Biology (Pre-

Med) and an MD from the University of Kansas. His residency was in Cardiology, St.

Luke’s, Kansas City, MO. He is now employed by the Heart Center of the Rockies at

Fort Collins, CO.

The other thing that I would mention was that I was the chair of the department,

two different times, actually three different times. I was acting chair in 1967 to 1968. I

was really a young whippersnapper because I had only been here three years. Harold

Rossen, who was on the faculty and chair at the time, took a leave of absence or

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sabbatical and I was named the acting interim chair when he was gone. So that was just

for one year. Then from 1970 to 1974 I was chair and then again in 1996 to 2000. I

enjoyed those experiences and felt I was contributing to the department. We have always

had a rotating chair position. So being there for four or five years and then dropping out

and letting someone else do it has been a common thing, the usual thing in our

department, actually. I felt that was the way I could contribute to the department.

Paul Willhite, who was chair before my last term as chair, served during a period

when there were several retirements and recruiting of new faculty. He also emphasized

the building of a stronger research program. As chair I worked to continue to build

faculty strength. Again, one of the things I have felt good about is during the tenures that

I had I was responsible for getting two female engineers into the department, which is

important.

I strongly feel that what is “right” for our program is a balance between teaching

and research that gives each a comparable weighting. As we had had new faculty join

our department, the level of research activity has increased significantly. I have, during

this period, also encouraged the maintenance of our traditionally strong undergraduate

program. It is clear that the different requirements placed on faculty make the job a

demanding one. I thought that one of my primary roles as chair was to support the

faculty in every appropriate and feasible way. This means providing the resources

needed for teaching, assisting in the development of research programs and working to

see that they are recognized for accomplishments.

Our department has a strong undergraduate program. The basis for this program

is an outstanding student body. A Regents’ review of the University provided data which

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showed that the average ACT score of our entering freshmen was the highest in the

University. This results, in part, from our scholarship program, which is well endowed

and which allows us to recruit students of high ability. We think that the high quality of

our student body is reflected in the fact that our students have won more awards in the

National A.I.Ch.E. Student Design Contest than any other program in the country. This

is also the result, we feel, of excellent teaching of several faculty, including Professor

Howat, who has taught the design courses.

As chair, I felt a keen sense of responsibility to maintain the quality of our

undergraduate program. Thus, I worked with our faculty in a significant upgrade of the

Unit Operations Laboratory, maintenance of a computer laboratory and support and

encouragement of the A.I.Ch.E. Student chapter and the use of faculty meetings for

lengthy discussions of our program. I’ve also increased the interaction and involvement

of our Advisory Board with students and the undergraduate program. As an example, I

initiated an activity in which Advisory Board members conduct individual exit interviews

with graduating seniors. We used this activity as part of our preparation for an

accreditation visit.

Q: What do you remember about the late 1960s when there was so much turmoil here?

A: Specifically, I remember that time and the disruption coming out of the Vietnam War and

the unrest on campus. We did things like stand watch in a building all night because we

had heard there were threats of bombing. One year the ROTC graduation—they had a

ceremony at the end of the year in which they marched into the football stadium and had

a ceremony. The word was out that that was going to be threatened and disrupted. So

there was a group of faculty volunteered to go over to the football stadium and we had

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enough volunteers that we stood as a ring around the edge of the football field. We were

supposed to be the moral restraining force.

Q: Did it work?

A: Well, no. We got there early and as time developed there were a group of people who

came to the stands and it was looking kind of ugly. Some people even had sticks and

things. When the ROTC came marching in with a band and such, these people erupted

over the seats and out onto the field and the moral restraining force did not restrain them.

So they had to cancel the ceremony.

Q: I think that was the year before we came.

A: Yes, that would have been in 1968. Then, as you know, one of the things that came out

of all that is that because of some of the things that had happened at KU, ending the

semester early and various disruptions, generally throughout the state of Kansas, people

were not very happy with KU. The legislators were not happy. Our chancellor wanted to

have projects that would relate to people and industry in the state of Kansas. That gave

the entree to form the Tertiary Oil Recovery Project, as you know. We had some friends

in the oil industry and Paul Willhite and also Floyd Preston helped us get this started. We

put together a proposal to form this oil recovery project that would be the research arm of

the industry in the state of Kansas, researching new and better oil recovery techniques.

With some help from friends in the petroleum industry, that got into the governor’s

budget message in 1973, and so that was funded beginning in the summer of 1974. It

continues today. TORP has continued to be funded by the State, and through external

funding from the Department of Energy and industry. Paul and I were co-directors until I

retired two years ago as a director. So, yes, we had that for a long time.

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Q: I know that you have won several teaching awards. Would you like to talk a little bit

about your teaching?

A: The role of a professor as teacher is the role that I love best. I have taught courses both in

chemical and petroleum engineering and at all levels, from the freshman course on

“Introduction to the Profession,” to graduate courses. I’ve always felt that it’s exciting to

see the maturity and technical sophistication developed by our students as they progress

from freshmen to seniors.

My mentor, Bob Perry, used to tell me, when things were not going all that well

because of administrative or bureaucratic problems, “Thank God for the students. It’s

because of the students that we’re here.” That quote accurately reflects my feelings.

Through the years I’ve been fortunate enough to be recognized by the students

with a number of teaching awards. I’ve been recognized over the 35 years at KU, on

average, once every other year. The award that I’m proudest of is the HOPE Award

(University-wide award to Honor the Outstanding Progressive Educator). The award

selection is made annually by seniors. I was a finalist for the award six times before

winning it on the seventh try. My three sons kidded me for a long time saying I couldn’t

win the big one.

In 1982 I was named the Conger-Gabel Distinguished Professor of Chemical and

Petroleum Engineering. This recognition was made possible through an endowment

provided by an alumnus who specified that a major requirement for the award was to be

excellence in undergraduate teaching, in addition to research accomplishment. I held that

title until 1995 when I was named the Deane E. Ackers Distinguished Professor of

Chemical and Petroleum Engineering.

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My approach in the classroom is to treat the students with respect, basically as

junior colleagues. It’s important to be well prepared, and to “move” the class along so

that material is covered sufficiently. I try to be open to questions and to encourage

discussion. Tests, projects and homework should be demanding but not unreasonable.

They should be graded and returned promptly. Fairness in treatment of all students is a

must. It’s also desirable to show a sense of humor, which I try to do, and to not take

myself too seriously. In general, I try to convey to the students that I’m on their side. If

they’re willing to work, I’m certain there to help and mentor them.

I have involved myself on campus with programs that relate to students and

teaching. In the 1970’s, a colleague, Floyd Preston, and I had the opportunity to work

with a few African American students who had come back from the military who wanted

to start an organization to encourage minorities in engineering. Basically, the plan was to

develop a program to recruit, encourage, support and mentor undergraduates. We had

practically no minorities, African Americans, in engineering. Floyd Preston and I—

Floyd was a member of chemical and petroleum engineering—were the first sponsors of

that group. In fact, we, with the help of Dean Bill Smith, actually, got that organization

started. Floyd and I for years did things like in the summer I taught a volunteer course

for students who would come in preparing to start classes. We did things like teach a

beginning computer course. It grew over the years with different sponsors, but it is still

an active program. I don’t know the number of enrollment now, but it is significant. The

Minority Engineering Program now has a full-time adviser and has had a permanent

position in the dean’s office for a long time now. But anyway I feel good about being in

at the start of that organization.

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I was also instrumental in the formation of the Society of Women Engineers years

ago. When I began teaching, there were relatively few female students. The increase in

women started—I would have to go back and dig out the date—but a group of

undergraduate women started meeting. I was the first sponsor of the precursor to the

Student Chapter of the Society of Women Engineers. I actually was there when we

became a part of the National Society of Women Engineers. So for a short while I was

an honorary woman engineer. I really felt good about that endeavor to promote more

women in engineering.

Q: There are a lot of them now. About what percentage of engineering students are women,

would you say?

A: Overall, in engineering I would guess it is about 20 percent, which is not too different

from the national average. But typically in chemical engineering we have been as high as

40 to 45 percent at times. It has gone up and down some. But I think we peaked

probably in the 40 percent, something like that.

Q: That has changed a lot.

A: You are right. It is a good enrollment.

Q: Are there any other teaching-related activities you’d like to mention?

A: For a number of years we had on campus what was called the Teaching Commons

Committee. This was a group that actually came out of a very large committee that Del

Brinkman organized when he was provost. The general idea was that we were going to

have a conversation about teaching on campus. So that went on for about a year, as I

recall. Then following that we formed a teaching Commons Committee, which was a

relatively small committee, about half a dozen people or so, and what we did was meet

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regularly to focus on issues on campus and try to promote undergraduate teaching on

campus, basically. I chaired the committee for several years. We focused on issues such

as a colleague-to-colleague mentoring program, improvement of classroom physical

facilities, audio-visual improvement in the classroom, teaching colloquia and teaching

awards. I think that our general idea at first was to be somewhat of a counterpoint to

what was perceived as more and more emphasis on research and perhaps a diminished

emphasis on teaching. We ultimately disbanded and what was done is that the Center for

Teaching Excellence, that is now on campus, was formed. That ultimately came out of

that committee as sort of a natural continuation. It now has its own physical facility and

dedicated staff. The Teaching Commons Committee has resources that relate to teaching.

They publish some articles by people on the kinds of things that might help in classroom

teaching. That was the general idea and is still ongoing. Sandra Gautt, who was in the

chancellor’s office at the time, was the representative on our Teaching Commons

Committee. She was really an important person in pushing this ahead to have this Center

for Teaching Excellence formed. She’s still on the faculty but is no longer in the

chancellor’s office. She recently retired from the chancellor’s office, but she was there

for a number of years.

Q: What have been your research interests during your years at KU?

A: After joining the faculty at KU, my initial research work focused on computer modeling

of ground water systems. I, along with graduate students, built a computer model of a

major aquifer in south central Kansas which could be used to predict ground water levels

and supplies.

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In the early 1970s, the country was in a period of energy shortage. The Kansas

petroleum industry consisted, for the most part, of small, independent operators. The

operators did not have sufficient engineering staffs and certainly did not have direct

access to research facilities. It was difficult for the industry to access and use the

enhanced oil recovery technology which was being developed primarily by the major oil

companies. There was a clear need for technical support for the Kansas industry. And

this led, as I mentioned earlier, to the formation of the Tertiary Oil Recovery Project

(TORP). Its objectives have been the conducting of research related to enhanced oil

recovery processes, primarily of technical assistance to the industry and the training of

students.

Over the years, research has been conducted in several areas, including thermal

recovery processes, micellar-polymer flooding, carbon dioxide miscible displacement,

reservoir computer simulation and in situ permeability modification using gelled polymer

systems. A major and current emphasis has been the development of gelled polymer

technology. The objective of this technology is to improve volumetric sweep efficiency

in oil recovery displacement processes such as water flooding. In such a displacement

process the injected fluid often flows between the injection wells to production wells in a

“short circuit” matter because of reservoir heterogeneities (high permeability zones) or

fractures. Most of the oil in the reservoir is bypassed and not contacted by the injected

fluid, resulting in poor displacement efficiency. Also, the injected fluid has to be

recirculated or disposed of and this can be expensive. The basic idea behind the gelled

polymer technology is to inject a gel system into the “thief” zone, have the system react

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to form a gel and thereby seal off these zones. Fluid subsequently injected will be forced

into other parts of the reservoir, thereby improving efficiency.

Another current emphasis is the application of supercritical carbon dioxide for oil

recovery in Kansas reservoirs. Carbon dioxide has been used successfully in west Texas

and other places. We think there is significant potential for application in Kansas and

have implemented a field trial to test the process in Central Kansas. This process literally

has the potential to revitalize the Kansas oil industry.

Over the years about 90 graduate students have conducted research through

TORP leading to their Ph.D. or M.S. degree in chemical or petroleum engineering. A

number of undergraduates have also participated. In 1998 Paul Willhite and I published a

textbook, Enhanced Oil Recovery, through the Society of Petroleum Engineers. This is a

comprehensive book of advanced oil recovery processes applicable for use in senior or

graduate courses in petroleum engineering. We have also published numerous articles

and reports, and presented a large number of papers at technical meetings related to oil

recovery.

TORP also has a program of technology transfer which focuses on providing

assistance to Kansas operators. Under this program we do cooperative field testing of

processes, conduct seminars and workshops and do “one-on-one” consultation with oil

operators. Our TORP project has been widely recognized as having one of the best

programs of transfer of technology.

Q: Did you ever have a sabbatical?

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A: You know, in the whole time I’ve been here, I have only taken one sabbatical. That was I

took a semester off to work on a couple of books. One of those was the book Paul

Willhite, your husband, and I wrote a book on enhanced oil recovery.

Q: I knew about that one.

A: So I was working on that book on sabbatical and also I had become the editor of Perry’s

Chemical Engineer’s Handbook, so I spent time working on that handbook as well during

that sabbatical. But that’s the only time I took a sabbatical in the 45 years I was here.

Q: How did you happen to become the editor of Perry’s Chemical Engineer’s Handbook?

A: When my family returned from vacation in August 1977, I was surprised to have a letter

waiting that had been sent by Bob Perry (Robert H. Perry). He was living in London at

the time. Bob was inviting me to be a section editor on the Sixth Edition of Perry’s

Chemical Engineers’ Handbook, the work which he had initiated in 1977. Further, his

plan was that I would join him as co-editor for the Seventh Edition, which would be

targeted for publication about 10 years after the Sixth was published.

I was Bob Perry’s first Ph.D. student when he was a chemical engineering faculty

member at the University of Oklahoma. While I was a student there, my wife and I

became close friends with Bob and his family. While at OU Bob edited the Fourth

Edition of the Handbook, and I assisted him in that project in various ways, from working

on the Kinetics Section to helping with different “odds and ends.” Bob left OU shortly

after I graduated. He had a short stint as a faculty member at another institution and then

moved overseas where he worked as a consultant for different international organizations

and continued his work of editing the Handbook. He was working on the Sixth Edition

when he sent the invitation to me to join him in the project. Bob had two sons, neither of

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whom had careers that were related to engineering. He had inherited the book from his

father and I think he wanted to pass the leadership along to a person who was close to

him, and almost like family.

McGraw-Hill Book Co., with John H. Perry as the editor, first published the

Chemical Engineer’s Handbook in 1934. He was an employee of DuPont Co. at the time.

John Perry edited the first three editions. Bob Perry assumed editorship after his father’s

death in 1953. Bob had received a Ph.D. in chemical engineering at the University of

Delaware, under Professor Robert Pigford, a very well-known chemical engineering

educator. As indicated earlier, Bob was a professor at OU when he became editor of the

Fourth Edition.

I was delighted to receive Bob’s invitation to join him in working on the

Handbook. At the time I was a professor of Chemical and Petroleum Engineering at KU,

having been here since 1964. My wife and I visited Bob in London over our spring break

in March 1978. We spent a week with the Perry’s, over which time we talked and made

plans about the Handbook, but also took time to sightsee in London and travel together.

At the end of the week we agreed that I would be a Section editor for the Sixth Edition

and become Co-editor for the Seventh.

In November 1978, I received a shock to learn that Bob had been killed in an

accident in London. He had gone to the post office to pick up a letter that related to the

Handbook. He stepped out in front of a car, was hit and killed instantly. At the request

of Gail, his wife, and McGraw-Hill, I assumed the editorship of the Sixth Edition.

Bob had initiated work on the Sixth Edition, but there was much work to be done.

There were also some legal issues surrounding ownership of the book that had to be

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resolved. My work started in earnest in 1979. I recruited section editors for positions not

yet filled and asked Jim Maloney, emeritus professor at KU, to assist me as assistant

editor. We contacted all section editors and put forth a plan for proceeding. The editors

were simply great in the way in which they responded and worked with Jim and me. The

work was basically completed at the end of 1983 and published in 1984. The Sixth

Edition was formally renamed Perry’s Chemical Engineers’ Handbook, (formerly

named the Chemical Engineers’ Handbook).

Perry’s is the leading handbook for chemical engineers in the world. The first six

editions had a total sales of about 600,000 copies. It is published as a standard edition

and as an international student edition. The Fifth and Sixth Editions were translated into

Spanish. There were plans for a Russian translation, but these were abandoned with the

collapse of the Soviet Union.

I was also editor of the Seventh Edition, which was published in 1997. Emeritus

Professor J. O. Maloney served as associate editor. The organization of the book was

changed for the Seventh Edition. Several new section editors were recruited and some

new sections added to reflect changes in the practice of chemical engineering. About

100,000 copies of the new edition have been sold. It has been published on CD ROM

and plans are underway by McGraw-Hill to place the book on the web. The Seventh

Edition was recognized by the Library Division of the American Society for Engineering

Education as the Best “Reference Book of 1998.

I feel that Perry’s is a book that, in a sense, “ties” chemical engineers together. It

is perhaps the one book that all chemical engineers have used at one time or another, as a

student or as a practicing engineer. I was editor of the Eighth Edition, which was

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published in 2007. I plan to be the editor of the Ninth Edition. McGraw-Hill would like

to make the time between editions less, so that project will start in about 2012. It is a

major, time-consuming project.

Q: Another thing I always ask is about outstanding former students who have gone on to

greater things perhaps.

A: Well, I was looking at that. Looking at the record, Paul was generally co-advisor of the

students that we have had. But I think I have had something like 18 Ph.D. students

graduate and something like 70 or so master’s students. I don’t have any of them who

have gone on to be president of the company or anything. But two of our people ended

up teaching. Roy Knapp was one of my early graduate students. He had a very

successful career, first at Texas and then at O.U. in petroleum engineering. We have

another Ph.D. student, Bert Todd, who is teaching in Montana. Then we have had several

students who have been successful in industry and have risen to prominent positions. By

and large when I look at the group, again, I don’t have any other people who necessarily

stand out that I would mention in this. But we have had several people who have had

successful careers in petroleum and in the chemical industry.

Q: I know that you have been very interested in sports in addition to baseball.

A: My sons and I have been enthusiastic about KU sports, especially KU basketball. Over

the years I have worked with the Athletic Department, serving two terms on the Athletic

Board.

In 1996 the Chancellor invited me to serve as the Faculty Athletic Representative

to the Big XII Conference and the NCAA. So for 11 years I was the faculty athletic

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representative for KU. In fact, when I began Bob Frederick was the AD. You saw about

his untimely death.

Q: Yes.

A: So anyway I started then and did that until 2007. In 2007 I went half time for two years.

Anyway, I was the faculty athletic representative and I enjoyed that.

Q: What did you do as representative?

A: The governance of the conferences in the NCAA generally consist of groups, the

presidents, of course, they control. Then there is a group, athletic directors from each of

the conference schools, and then a group of faculty athletic representatives. These

consist of one representative from each university. There is a council of senior women

administrators. What did we do? Well, the NCAA is a very bureaucratic organization,

lots of rules. So much of our time—we would meet three or four times a year—and

much of our time was spent looking at the rules, sometimes making new rules for our

specific conference that are consistent with the NCAA rules, interpreting rules, issues that

relate to waivers and requests. For example, someone is declared ineligible and maybe

they are about to lose a year of eligibility under the current rules, but they have a valid

reason for getting an extension, a so-called waiver. So we would spend time in deciding

whether the waiver was justified or not. We spent a lot of time on academic issues. I

think the faculty reps sort of viewed themselves as keepers of the faith, if you will, in

trying to maintain the academics. So there are rules that would pertain to what is called

satisfactory progress in order for a student athlete to remain eligible. Those kinds of

issues we would address.

Q: And there were certain perks to the position.

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A: You much have been at the banquet. First of all one of the perks, just a general one, is

that I am interested in and like athletics. Prior to being selected as the faculty

representative, I was active in athletics on campus and then I was part of the athletic

board for several years. So I had a fair amount of experience going into that. But

anyway, one of the perks is just being involved in the academic issues and issues related

to athletics. I like that. But then I guess the fun perks were things like we would get to

go to a Bowl game as a representative of the Big 12. So Pat and I went to the Rose Bowl

a couple of times and we went to the Orange Bowl and we went to the Sugar Bowl. So,

yes, those kinds of perks are there. And we met every year. We always had a spring

meeting after the end of the spring semester. Most years that was at Colorado Springs at

the Broadmoor Hotel. So I think that was very much a perk. So yes, Jewell, there were

some perks. The reason I asked you about the banquet was because they were talking

about the perks there.

Q: I knew you had gone to Rose Bowl games and things like that.

A: Anyway, being a faculty representative was a big part of my service certainly.

Q: Do you still play handball?

A: I’ve been an avid handball player since my days in graduate school. I play about three

times a week with a small group of friends in Lawrence. We feel about handball as does

“Sarge” of the Beetle Baily comic strip. According to Sarge, handball is the only real

court game and racquetball is for wimps. At least, that’s the kidding I give to our

students, who tend to play racquetball. I seriously do put my handball times on my

calendar early and work hard to make those times inviolate.

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I recall a comical incident a few years ago when I was in a meeting with Dean

Carol Locke and others, and I had to leave early. As I left, Dean Locke remarked, “Have

a good game.” My love of the game was well known.

Another hobby is hiking in the Colorado mountains. When my sons were small

we did a lot of camping and hiking. The family has continued over the years to vacation

in Colorado and we now have a vacation home near Estes Park. I’ve climbed Long’s

Peak (Rocky Mountain National Park) three times, two of those times with my wife Pat.

Q: Is there anything else you plan to do now that you are really retired?

A: Okay, I did make some notes. I still am going to be involved with the university. I think

I have four Ph.D. students that I am co-directing. And I’ll continue on with them. Right

now I am scheduled to teach a course next spring, Petroleum Engineering Design. So,

yes, I’ll still be involved with the university. Then I am going to stay active in the

Society of Petroleum Engineers. Another thing I am thinking very seriously about doing

is writing a history of Perry’s Chemical Engineers’ Handbook. That Chemical

Engineers’ Handbook was first written and edited by John Perry and published in 1934.

The eighth edition was just published in 2007. So that has been a continuing part of

chemical engineering education for that long. What I’m really thinking about doing,

since I’ve been so involved, is to write a history of the handbook and its development.

There are some interesting personal stories about Bob I could tell. I think that could be

one of my projects. I haven’t decided for sure. Pat and I are going to go to London in

July.

Q: Just for a vacation?

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A: As I mentioned, Bob Perry was killed in 1978 but his widow still lives in the house that

they were in at that time. We are going to stay at Gail’s house for a while and make little

trips out from there.

Q: So this was an Englishman who started this.

A: No, he was actually an American, but late in his career he moved to England and was

working on another handbook and consulting there. Basically he was U.S. That’s one of

the possible projects.

We have a second home in Colorado that we have had for about 10 years now. So

we will spend more time there. I’ve gotten more interested in doing fly fishing, usually

catch and release. I like that. I’m an avid handball player. I’m going to stay with that. I

have really a social group that I play handball with. I’m going to continue that as long as

I hold out. I will probably visit the family more. We are close to our three sons. Our

oldest son Guy lives in Seattle. Patrick, the youngest, lives in Fort Collins, Colorado.

The middle son, Michael, lives in Kansas City. We are close to all three sons. Each of

them has two children, so we have six grandchildren. So we will spend more time

visiting them.

I have started and am going to learn to play the guitar.

Q: I saw it and wondered who played it.

A: About a year and a half ago I actually took lessons for about six months. I really have no

musical talent. But I love the guitar and always wanted to play, folk music, that kind of

thing. Anyway, I took lessons but then I got so busy and I laid it aside. Now that I am

retired I’ve picked it up again and am going back to playing simple songs. I’ve got a

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Johnny Cash book over there that I play a couple songs out of. More time to read.

Probably I will do that.

Then the last thing is I am going to spend some time digging out my family

history. I have known for some time that my great-grandfather supposedly was sheriff of

Selma, Alabama, during or right after the Civil War. He named one of his sons, my

grandfather, Wilkes Booth Green. There’s no doubt where he stood. So I think there is

probably a story there. Maybe not a very good story, but a story. So I am going to look

into that for good or bad.

Also Pat and I are interested in politics and might become more active in the

Democratic Party. That’s a lot of projects and things to do

Q: Oh, yes. You’ll keep busy. I usually finish this up by asking people what their

assessment of KU is, your department, past, present, hopes for the future, that kind of

thing.

A: Okay. Generally, my feeling about the university is very positive. I came here in the first

place because it was such a great fit. I had a bachelor’s degree in petroleum engineering

and my graduate degrees were in chemical engineering. Our department has programs in

both chemical and petroleum, which is almost unique in the country. Maybe another

department or so has had that. But anyway that was a good fit for me because I could fit

in both disciplines. So over the years I have really felt very good about our department.

You know, not entirely, but generally the people have gotten along very well and can

operate in somewhat of a democratic fashion. We try to do things by consensus, which

has happened most of the time.

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And the university, I’ve been involved in a lot of committees on campus at the

university level and the school level. I generally have felt very good about the way the

university has operated. I think certainly one of the things I have seen is the increasing

importance of research on campus and certainly in engineering. When I came we were

expected to do research and we did that. In fact, Paul and I have this oil recovery project

and a lot of the research, graduate students, funded research, etc. But over the years the

emphasis on research has been so very significant and in recent years has increased

almost exponentially. The pressure for young faculty to bring in funding, that’s what

you’ve got to do. I have had some concern over the years that that could work to the

detriment of the undergraduate program. One thing I’ve liked about KU and the

engineering program is that we try to maintain this balance between research and the

undergraduate program. In fact, I remember, especially when Carl Locke was dean, he

annually would have a meeting during the year, usually between semesters. He would

have the engineering faculty and the theme would be something to do with education. I

can remember several times when the faculty would get into these discussions and we

almost all agreed that we ought to maintain the balance between the undergraduate

program emphasis and research. We wanted both to be strong. So I’ve really felt good

about that. I’ve had some concerns that we are losing that. But I generally feel very

positive about the university. So as we go forward I just hope we maintain a very strong

undergraduate program. I don’t think we ought to try to be the M.I.T. or the Berkeley in

terms of research. I think we ought to make sure that we are turning out very strong

undergraduates as well as graduate students.

Q: Did we cover everything?

A: You said you would let me look at this.

Q: Of course, I’ll put it together and you can make whatever corrections or additions you

want to.

A: Okay. I’ll copy these notes and bring them by your house tomorrow.

Q: Thank you very much.