202 p request for telephonic conf re deposition disputes

8/14/2019 202 P Request for Telephonic Conf Re Deposition Disputes

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(213) 992-3299TELEPHONE L A W O F F I C E O F

E U G E N E L E E

[email protected]

(213) 596-0487FACSIMILE

555 WEST FIFTH STREET, SUITE 3100LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90013-1010

WWW.LOEL.COMWEBSITE

EUGENE D. LEE, ESQ.PRINCIPAL

JOAN E. HERRINGTON, ESQ.OF COUNSEL

VIA CM/ECF

U.S.D.C., Eastern District of California2500 Tulare St., #1501Fresno, CA 93721

100011.001

Re: Severe Ongoing Deposition Disputes Which Go Unpunished by this Court

Jadwin / County of Kern, et al. (USDC EDCA No. 1:07-cv-00026-OWW/TAG)

To the Honorable Court:

I am counsel of record for Plaintiff. Both I and Mark Wasser, counsel of record for Defendants,are seeking the assistance of the Court to resolve numerous discovery disputes which have arisenin depositions. I have attached rough transcripts of the depositions in question, i.e., thedepositions of Toni Smith and of Barbara Patrick.

Defendants misconduct in discovery in this action is beyond the pale. This Court has seen fit todeny Plaintiffs repeated requests for protective orders and sanctions against this misconduct.Plaintiff has been prejudiced in countless ways and intends to seek appellate redress at theappropriate time. In the meantime, Plaintiff again requests this Court act to curb Defendantsdiscovery obstruction and abuse.

Following is a synopsis of the disputes.

I. Plaintiffs Request for Protective Order re Personal Property; and Request forSanctions

I am seeking an order that prohibits Mr. Wasser from touching or threatening to touch mypersonal property again without my permission. In addition, I am yet again seeking sanctionsagainst Mr. Wasser, this time for his misconduct in damaging my property. At a minimum, Iwould appreciate being provided with compensation for my equipment loss. Following is anexplanation of how Mr. Wasser damaged my equipment.

At the deposition of Toni Smith conducted during the morning of August 19, 2008, I stated onthe record that I had heard Mr. Wasser tapping his foot against deponents foot during a criticalline of questioning regarding Dr. Royce Johnson, a comparator for Plaintiff. (Smith Deposition,88:19-23). During a colloquoy in which Mr. Wasser denied he had tapped deponents foot, hestood up, reached across the conference table, and without my permission, picked up mywebcam which I had been using to videotape Mr. Wasser (I had previously given notice to Mr.Wasser that I would be videotaping him because of his egregious and persistent obstruction andmisconduct in nearly every deposition in this action. Plaintiff has twice sought a protective order

August 21, 2008

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re depositions from this Court. Both times, the Court denied Plaintiffs requests, stating that theCourt had faith Mr. Wasser would not engage in misconduct.). Mr. Wasser grabbed the webcamby the stalk, sat down, repositioned his feet, then pointed the webcam at his feet as if to prove hehad not tapped deponents feet. (90:16-23). The webcam is a top-of-the-line Logitech Orbit AFfor which I paid $129.99. The instructions that came with the webcam specifically state that the

camera should not be handled or held by the stalk, which is exactly what Mr. Wasser did. I askedMr. Wasser to release my camera and give it back to me. (90:24-25). He refused. (91:1-4). I alsowarned him he was going to damage my webcam handling it in the manner he was doing.(90:19). After I eventually got my webcam back, I warned Mr. Wasser not to touch myequipment again without my permission. Mr. Wasser repeatedly stated, I will touch thecamera. (91:18; 92:4; 92:12-14). A few minutes later, he stood up and this time grabbed both ofmy webcams by their stalks. (93: 22). He replaced the webcams on the table. Then, about aminute later, Mr. Wasser again stood up and again grabbed both of my webcams by their stalks.(94:18-22). After he again replaced both webcams on the table, I noticed the Orbit AF was nolonger working and stated so on the record, at which point I adjourned the deposition to seek aprotective order. (95:1-4).

II. Plaintiffs Request for Order Reconvening Deposition of Barbara Patrick andCompelling Responses; Motion for Protective Order re Speaking Objections and

Witness Coaching; and Request for Sanctions

During Plaintiffs deposition of Ms. Patrick, Mr. Wasser engaged in numerous and egregiousspeaking objections which coached deponent how to answer and were intended to frustratePlaintiffs examination. (43:16 46:4; 47:10-11; 63:14-64:12; 64:24 65:12; ). At one point,Mr. Wasser chose to engage in an irrelevant and time-consuming diatribe on the difference incriminal law between malum in se and malum prohibitive (62:1-63:1):

14:20:52 1 MR. WASSER: Counsel, your questions are14:20:53 2 objectionable on innumerable bases, but among the14:20:57 3 examples you gave are not analogous to the statutory14:21:04 4 violations. There's the difference in the criminal14:21:08 5 law between malum in se and malum prohibitive and14:21:13 6 you're trying to make a distinction for the witness14:21:16 7 that she's having trouble with.

As shown by the above excerpt, Mr. Wassers conduct at the deposition was egregious andabusive. Plaintiff repeatedly asked that he state his objections succinctly as required by the FRCPbut he refused.

Following Mr. Wassers lead, deponent repeatedly refused to answer Plaintiffs questions. Sheinstead played word games with Plaintiff, deliberately giving answers to questions whichPlaintiff had not been asked and which deponent deliberately misinterpreted. (47:24 48:5; 48:9-25; 50:23 59:1; 64:14-18). Meanwhile, Mr. Wasser added to the chaos by repeatedlyharanguing Plaintiff and stating that Plaintiffs question had been answered by deponent when ithad not. (48:6 49:18). This coordinated tactic of Mr. Wassers and deponents achieved itsintended goal of burning up significant amounts of time on the record and pages of depositiontranscript, all the while denying Plaintiff a single response to his questions. Plaintiff admonished



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and warned deponent and Mr. Wasser that continued refusals to respond to questioning couldforce Plaintiff to adjourn the deposition, but the warning was to no avail. (66:4-6).

Plaintiff seeks an order reconvening Ms. Patricks deposition, compelling her to respond toPlaintiffs questions and refrain from obstruction, imposing sanctions on her and/or Mr. Wasser,

as well as a protective order against Mr. Wasser re speaking objections, coaching andobstruction.

It should be noted that Ms. Patrick openly and voluntarily admitted on the record without anyprompting by Plaintiff to shredding evidence in this action. Plaintiff will be seeking theappropriate sanctions for Ms. Patricks spoliation of evidence once the transcript becomesavailable.

III. Plaintiffs Request for Motion to Reconvene Deposition of Toni Smith and CompelResponses; and Request for Sanctions

Plaintiff also seeks an order to reconvene the deposition of Toni Smith. Although Plaintiff hadadjourned the deposition due to Mr. Wassers damaging my equipment, previous to that,Defendants had adjourned Ms. Smiths deposition based on Plaintiffs repeatedly asking thesame question to Ms. Smith. The parties had later agreed to continue the deposition on theunderstanding that Plaintiff would not be permitted to ask Ms. Smith questions regarding thedemotion of Plaintiff pending the Courts ruling on Defendants adjournment due to Plaintiffsrepetitive questions.

Following is the question which prompted Mr. Wasser to instruct deponent not to answer basedon an objection that the question had already been repeatedly asked. As Plaintiff attempted togive an admonition to deponent, Mr. Wasser then chose to adjourn the deposition:

09:49:09 19 Q. You did not.09:49:11 20 Besides Dr. Jadwin's physical unavailability09:49:29 21 and absence from the hospital, what other basis did09:49:33 22 you hear about at the removal meeting to -- that09:49:37 23 dictated -- that persuaded you to vote in favor of09:49:41 24 removing Dr. Jadwin?

Plaintiff challenges Defendants to identify a single other place in the deposition transcript wherePlaintiff had previously asked this question. They will not find any because this was the first andonly time Plaintiff asked deponent the question. Defendants instruction not to answer and thenadjournment of the deposition was baseless and improper and merits sanctions. Plaintiff seeks amotion for an order to re-convene the deposition and requests sanctions against Mr. Wasser forhis inappropriate conduct. Furthermore, Plaintiff reiterates his request for a protective orderagainst Mr. Wasser.

IV. Pending Deposition DisputesPlaintiff further notes that the behavior of Mr. Wasser complained of above was replicated in fullthis morning at Plaintiffs deposition of Dr. Dutt. Plaintiff intends to seek sanctions, an order



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reconvening his deposition and a protective order against Mr. Wasser for egregious speakingobjections, witness coaching and obstruction on the record.

It should be noted that Dr. Dutt admitted on the record to continued failure to producevoluminous, material documents in response to numerous document production requests

propounded by Plaintiff on October 11, 2007. Plaintiff has been utterly prejudiced by the non-production of these documents and will be seeking sanctions and other appropriate remediesagainst Defendants and/or Mr. Wasser once the transcript is available.

Further, Defendants have yet to schedule a single one of the 4 depositions ordered to bereconvened by this Court at the last hearing. With time fast running out, Plaintiff anticipateshaving to request an OSC why Defendants have not complied with the Courts order.

Plaintiff has every reason to believe Mr. Wasser will continue his obstruction at every remainingdeposition for the foreseeable future. Already, the Court has had to order the reconvening of 4depositions. Plaintiff would not be surprised if, in the end, the Court will need to order the

reconvening of nearly all of the 17 depositions which the Court had previously ordered theparties to convene. (Doc. 194).

V. ConclusionPlaintiff and Defendants are jointly requesting the Courts intercession in ongoing andcontinuing deposition disputes. The Court has already ordered the parties to adhere to a rigorousdeposition schedule of 17 depositions in 11 days, which became necessary as a result ofDefendants unilateral and improper refusal to produce a single deponent in response toPlaintiffs properly served deposition notices served on July 3, 2008. Now, Defendants continueto engage in misconduct with impunity, threatening further delay and continuances. Plaintiffurgently requests the Courts assistance to avoid additional prejudice to Plaintiff.

Very truly yours,

EUGENE D. LEE



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1

1 WOOD & RANDALL

2 Certified Shorthand Reporters

3 Bakersfield and Fresno Offices

4 800.322.4595 or [email protected]

5

6 (BE ADVISED THAT ALL ROUGH DRAFTS WILL BE FOLLOWED BY

7 A CERTIFIED COPY AND BILLED APPROPRIATELY)

8

9 ROUGH DRAFT

10 UNCERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT

11 Deposition of

12 ANTOINETTE CATHERINE SMITH

13 Tuesday, August 19, 2008

14

15 This realtime draft is unedited and

16 uncertified and may contain untranslated steno, an

17 occasional reporter's note and/or nonsensical English18 word combinations. All such entries will be

19 corrected on the final certified transcript upon its

20 delivery to you in accordance with our standard

21 delivery terms.

22 This realtime draft is intended only for the

23 purpose of augmenting counsel's notes and is not

24 intended to be used or cited in any court

25 proceedings.ROUGH DRAFT

NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT

2

09:09:27 1 EXAMINATION

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A0819rfa (2)09:09:27 2 BY MR. LEE:

09:09:30 3 Q. Ms. Smith will you please state your full

09:09:32 4 name for the record.

09:09:33 5 A. Antoinette Catherine Smith.

09:09:36 6 Q. Thank you.

09:09:37 7 You're appearing under an order of the

09:09:39 8 court. Is that correct?

09:09:40 9 A. Yes, sir.

09:09:41 10 Q. Okay. Have you ever had your deposition

09:09:43 11 taken before?

09:09:44 12 A. Yes, sir.

09:09:45 13 Q. And when?

09:09:48 14 A. The approximate time frame was, gosh, I

09:09:51 15 can't tell you. Maybe two or three years ago.

09:09:54 16 Q. An estimate is good enough?

09:09:55 17 A. Okay.

09:09:56 18 Q. And what was that for? Were you a witness

09:09:59 19 or a party in that?

09:10:01 20 A. It -- it was related to a -- a lawsuit that

09:10:07 21 a patient had brought at -- for -- a patient care

09:10:13 22 issue at Kern Medical Center.

09:10:14 23 Q. And were you named as a defendant or were

09:10:16 24 you just deposed as a witness?

09:10:19 25 A. You know, I can't remember. I was deposedROUGH DRAFT


3

09:10:27 1 originally as a defendant I think and then -- and

09:10:30 2 then dropped as a defendant.

09:10:32 3 Q. Dropped, okay.

09:10:35 4 How many other depositions do you --

09:10:36 5 A. That was the one and only.Page 2



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09:10:38 6 Q. One and only. Good.

09:10:40 7 Okay. So you're not a deposition virgin but

09:10:43 8 I'll ask you a few questions -- just lay some ground

09:10:46 9 rules out for you anyway --

09:10:47 10 A. Okay.

09:10:47 11 Q. -- just to remind you.

09:10:48 12 A. That would be helpful.

09:10:50 13 Q. So the lady sitting to your left is a court

09:10:52 14 reporter and her job is to transcribe and record

09:10:55 15 everything that is said today, my questions and your

09:10:58 16 answers, and create a transcript. She can only

09:11:02 17 record what's said; so when you respond to a question

09:11:05 18 please do not shake your head or nod your head in

09:11:08 19 response or shrug your shoulders or say uh-huh or

09:11:12 20 huh-uh. Please clearly state yes or no so she can

09:11:15 21 create a clean record.

09:11:17 22 Also, this is very difficult for most people

09:11:20 23 to do. This is not natural. But please wait for me

09:11:22 24 to finish my question before you begin speaking. The09:11:25 25 worst thing that can happen is when two people talk

ROUGH DRAFTNOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT

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09:11:28 1 over each other and the reporter just throws her

09:11:30 2 hands up in despair. So for her sake please wait for

09:11:34 3 me to finish my question. Also before you answer

09:11:37 4 questions it's very important you understand the

09:11:40 5 question if you answer a question it will be presumed

09:11:42 6 that you understood it. So to be very short please

09:11:46 7 ask me to rephrase or restate a question if you don't

09:11:48 8 understand it before you answer. Do you understand?

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A0819rfa (2)09:11:50 9 A. Yes.

09:11:52 10 Q. The oath you've been administered has the

09:11:54 11 same force and effect as an oath administered in a

09:11:57 12 court of law before a judge and/or a jury. You are

09:12:01 13 under the same duty to tell the truth and the whole

09:12:03 14 truth. Do you understand that?

09:12:04 15 A. Yes.

09:12:06 16 Q. If at any time you have given testimony and

09:12:09 17 you decide later that it's not correct or it's

09:12:12 18 incomplete, please feel free to state that you want

09:12:15 19 to correct or add to previous -- prior testimony and

09:12:20 20 make sure you do so before the end of the deposition.

09:12:22 21 We'd like to have as accurate as transcript as

09:12:26 22 possible?

09:12:27 23 A. Yes.

09:12:28 24 Q. Okay. So are you aware of any reason why

09:12:31 25 today's deposition can't proceed?ROUGH DRAFT


5

09:12:33 1 A. No.

09:12:34 2 Q. Is there anything that prevents or restricts

09:12:37 3 from you giving your best and most truthful answer?

09:12:39 4 A. No.

09:12:40 5 Q. And have you taken any medication, drugs, or

09:12:42 6 alcohol in the last 24 hours?

09:12:46 7 A. Yes.

09:12:46 8 Q. You have? Without specifying, can you just

09:12:49 9 tell me if you believe it will affect your testimony

09:12:52 10 today?

09:12:53 11 A. No.

09:12:54 12 Q. Okay. Okay. Did you engage in anyPage 4



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09:13:01 13 preparations for today's deposition?

09:13:03 14 A. No.

09:13:04 15 Q. Did you speak with your attorney about

09:13:05 16 today's deposition?

09:13:07 17 A. Yes.

09:13:08 18 Q. Okay. Did you speak to anyone else about

09:13:10 19 today's deposition?

09:13:12 20 A. No. I mean, I saw a friend at the gym and

09:13:15 21 said I was going to go have my deposition taken.

09:13:18 22 Q. Okay. And have you looked at any documents

09:13:21 23 in preparation for today?

09:13:22 24 A. No, I haven't.

09:13:28 25 Q. Do you understand what this lawsuit isROUGH DRAFT


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09:13:29 1 about?

09:13:31 2 A. Actually I don't know all the details of it.

09:13:35 3 Q. Tell me your understanding of what it is.09:13:38 4 A. My understanding is that Dr. Jadwin is

09:13:41 5 unhappy because he was removed as chair of the

09:13:47 6 department of pathology. That's really all I know.

09:13:51 7 Q. Sure. That's fine.

09:13:54 8 What is your exact title, your job?

09:14:02 9 A. Chief nursing officer.

09:14:04 10 Q. Chief nursing officer and how -- when did

09:14:08 11 you first join -- when did you first become employed

09:14:12 12 by the County of Kern, roughly?

09:14:14 13 A. Roughly September of '96.

09:14:18 14 Q. Okay. So you're going on about 12 years of

09:14:21 15 employment now?

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A0819rfa (2)09:14:22 16 A. Yes.

09:14:24 17 Q. And what position did you start at had you

09:14:26 18 first came to Kern Medical Center?

09:14:27 19 A. The same position.

09:14:28 20 Q. Same position.

09:14:29 21 And when did you become a member of the

09:14:39 22 joint conference committee at Kern Medical Center?

09:14:42 23 A. I believe I began to go to the meetings at

09:14:49 24 the -- of the joint conference committee when I

09:14:52 25 started my employment there.ROUGH DRAFT


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09:14:56 1 Q. Okay. And you're there in your capacity as

09:15:00 2 chief nursing officer. Correct?

09:15:03 3 A. Yes, sir.

09:15:03 4 Q. Do you have a vote at the JCC?

09:15:07 5 A. Yes, I do.

09:15:08 6 Q. Do you recall a meeting of the joint

09:15:11 7 conference committee of July 10, 2006, where the

09:15:14 8 matter came before the JCC of whether to remove

09:15:17 9 Dr. Jadwin from chair of pathology?

09:15:20 10 A. I don't -- I couldn't testify to the date,

09:15:23 11 but I do remember that meeting.

09:15:26 12 Q. Okay. So you were present at that meeting?

09:15:28 13 A. I was.

09:15:32 14 Q. Who else was at that meeting? Was it the

09:15:34 15 entire JCC?

09:15:36 16 A. Well, at times there are members of the JCC

09:15:38 17 that are not able to attend because of absence from

09:15:42 18 the city or other obligations, that meaning I don't

09:15:47 19 recall if everyone was there or not.Page 6



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09:15:52 20 Q. Do you recall if David Culberson?

09:15:59 21 A. David Culberson.

09:16:01 22 Q. I believe he was the interim CEO.

09:16:03 23 A. He was the interim CEO at Kern Medical

09:16:08 24 Center. I didn't recall that this occurred when he

09:16:10 25 was there but maybe he did.ROUGH DRAFT


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09:16:13 1 Q. Well, he was the interim CEO from, what,

09:16:15 2 September to December of '06. Is that correct? Does

09:16:19 3 that sound right?

09:16:20 4 Well, Peter Bryan, he retired around

09:16:23 5 September of 2006. Correct?

09:16:24 6 A. I do know that Pete retired in September.

09:16:28 7 Q. Right. And that's when David Culberson came

09:16:30 8 as the interim CEO. Correct?

09:16:31 9 A. David did come in following Pete. That's

09:16:34 10 correct.09:16:34 11 Q. And he was the interim CEO for about two,

09:16:37 12 three months, four months?

09:16:38 13 A. He was there until a permanent CEO was

09:16:41 14 selected and that sounds like the right time frame.

09:16:43 15 Q. And the permanent CEO is Paul Hensler.

09:16:47 16 Right?

09:16:47 17 A. Correct.

09:16:47 18 Q. So David Culberson couldn't have been at

09:16:51 19 that JCC meeting in July -- well, I'll represent to

09:16:52 20 you that Dr. Jadwin was -- his removal was voted on

09:16:56 21 and approved at the meeting of the JCC of July 10,

09:17:00 22 2006. So David Culberson couldn't have been in that

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A0819rfa (2)09:17:03 23 joint conference meeting then around July, could he

09:17:06 24 have?

09:17:07 25 A. As I recall, Mr. Bryan was the CEO at theROUGH DRAFT


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09:17:11 1 time that it happened.

09:17:12 2 Q. Okay. So Mr. Bryan, was he present at this

09:17:15 3 JCC meeting?

09:17:18 4 A. As best as I can recall.

09:17:20 5 Q. Okay. Just for the sake of brevity if you

09:17:23 6 don't mind I'm going to refer to the JCC meeting of

09:17:25 7 July 10, 2006, where Dr. Jadwin's removal as chair

09:17:31 8 was noted on and approved I'm going to refer to that

09:17:33 9 as the removal meeting. Is that okay with you?

09:17:35 10 A. That's fine.

09:17:36 11 Q. It's a lot shorter.

09:17:37 12 A. Okay.

09:17:38 13 Q. So do you recall whether Jose Perez was at

09:17:41 14 this removal meeting?

09:17:45 15 A. Dr. Perez was a member of the JCC; so if the

09:17:49 16 attendance shows that he was there.

09:17:54 17 Q. Do you recall if --

09:17:54 18 MR. WASSER: I /PHAOEUFT just say the best

09:17:56 19 evidence of who was there are the minutes. It's very

09:18:00 20 more reliable than memory after two years. The

09:18:04 21 minutes should recite who was there and who wasn't

09:18:06 22 there.

09:18:06 23 MR. LEE: It's a good point.

09:18:07 24 MR. WASSER: And those would be the official

09:18:09 25 record the meeting.ROUGH DRAFT

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09:18:10 1 MR. LEE: That's a good P you know I'll look

09:18:12 2 into that later /S* /S* /S* /S*.

09:18:14 3 BY MR. LEE:

09:18:14 4 Q. And do you recall how you voted on this

09:18:16 5 removal of Dr. Jadwin at the me /ROFL meeting?

09:18:22 6 A. To my best recollection I voted for his

09:18:24 7 removal.

09:18:25 8 Q. And do you recall -- I believe there was a

09:18:28 9 couple of abstentions. Do you recall who abstained

09:18:30 10 on the vote?

09:18:34 11 A. I believe Dr. Ragland abstained.

09:18:39 12 Q. Okay.

09:18:40 13 A. But I do not remember anyone else.

09:18:44 14 Q. Do you believe David Hill might have

09:18:46 15 abstained? He was the director of ambulatory care?

09:18:49 16 A. David Hill didn't -- is not a voting

09:18:55 17 member -- was not.09:18:58 18 Q. Any idea why Dr. Ragland might have

09:19:00 19 abstained from the vote?

09:19:02 20 A. I have -- I have no conversation with him or

09:19:04 21 after.

09:19:04 22 ( I had.)

09:19:05 23 Q. Okay. And why did you vote to remove

09:19:11 24 Dr. Jadwin from chair?

09:19:13 25 A.ROUGH DRAFT


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09:19:13 1 ( Remove?

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A0819rfa (2)09:19:14 2 A. My rational for removing him from chair was

09:19:18 3 because of his absence from the premises. He had not

09:19:25 4 been present for quite some time, as I recall, I

09:19:28 5 can't tell you the amount of time. And as you might

09:19:32 6 know, those positions are extremely important and we

09:19:36 7 need to have a chair who is present to do the work of

09:19:42 8 the department.

09:19:42 9 Q. When you say absence ask presence, you mean

09:19:46 10 physical presence?

09:19:47 11 A. Correct?

09:19:47 12 A. Correct.

09:19:49 13 Q. Okay. And were you aware of why Dr. Jadwin

09:19:52 14 was /TPW-L /KHREU absent from Kern Medical Center for

09:19:54 15 a large part of 2006?

09:19:57 16 A.

09:19:57 17 ( Physically.)

09:19:59 18 A. I have no idea. I believe there was mention

09:20:04 19 that it was -- actually, I have no idea.

09:20:12 20 Q. No idea?

09:20:14 21 A. No idea. It was basically due to his

09:20:16 22 unavailability.

09:20:19 23 Q. Due to his unavailability.

09:20:21 24 And -- okay. Did Dr. -- well, who was --

09:20:29 25 who brought this -- this agenda item to the JCC ofROUGH DRAFT


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09:20:32 1 Dr. Jadwin's removal? Do you recall?

09:20:36 2 A. To the best of my recollection it was

09:20:38 3 Mr. Bryan.

09:20:39 4 Q. Mr. Bryan and do you recall why -- was there

09:20:46 5 any ex marijuana /AEUGS given as to why physicalPage 10



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09:20:50 6 presence of a chair is so critical at Kern Medical

09:20:54 7 Center is there any explanation or is that something

09:20:56 8 you just understood or assumed?

09:20:58 9 A. It's something I know.

09:21:00 10 Q. Um-hmm?

09:21:00 11 A. Because I work with them every single day

09:21:02 12 and we have business to do every single day,

09:21:06 13 depending on what the issues are, there are

09:21:09 14 decisions, there's management issues, there are

09:21:13 15 employee issues, they're patient issues, and the

09:21:16 16 department needs leadership.

09:21:18 17 Q. So to your recollection there was no

09:21:20 18 discussion of why the physical presence of a chair is

09:21:23 19 required at Kern Medical Center during the removal

09:21:27 20 meeting?

09:21:32 21 A. I don't think there was a discussion as to

09:21:36 22 details. I think in my mind maybe I didn't pay any

09:21:39 23 attention. It's an understood issue.

09:21:43 24 Q. Okay. Did you ever discuss this requirement09:21:59 25 that a chair has to be physically present at Kern


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09:22:02 1 Medical Center with anybody else before or after the

09:22:04 2 meeting?

09:22:06 3 A. As far as related to Dr. Jadwin?

09:22:09 4 Q. Or -- yeah. Related --

09:22:12 5 A. No. I mean, not that particular one. But

09:22:15 6 the issue of a chair needing to be present is -- is

09:22:21 7 routinely discussed as a matter ever business because

09:22:23 8 when vacancies are there we try to fill them as soon

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A0819rfa (2)09:22:27 9 as possible and interim folks are appointed because

09:22:32 10 the absence is -- leaves a gaping hole.

09:22:35 11 Q. And you said that you had no idea why

09:22:38 12 Dr. Jadwin was not available, why he was physically

09:22:42 13 absent. Do you think that's because -- well, do you

09:22:46 14 have any recollection at all of that being discussed

09:22:48 15 or reasons why Dr. Jadwin was physically absent?

09:22:51 16 A. Well, the -- the only -- no. I believe that

09:22:57 17 I am aware somewhere in the course of things and I

09:23:00 18 don't know if that was during that time or previous

09:23:02 19 to that time or subsequent to that time that there

09:23:05 20 was a medical leave.

09:23:09 21 Q. Okay. But you are aware at the time of the

09:23:11 22 removal meeting that Dr. Jadwin was unavailable at

09:23:14 23 least in part due to medical leave?

09:23:17 24 A. I was only aware that he was -- had been

09:23:20 25 unavailable for a long period of time.ROUGH DRAFT


14

09:23:23 1 Q. Did you think it was important to know why

09:23:24 2 Dr. Jadwin was unavailable for a long period of time?

09:23:29 3 A. I wasn't -- I'm not sure it was my privilege

09:23:32 4 to know that.

09:23:35 5 Q. So you thought it was privileged

09:23:41 6 information?

09:23:42 7 A. It potentially could have been. You know,

09:23:44 8 as far as I was concerned. But again, it may have

09:23:48 9 been discussed. I mean, I just truly don't remember

09:23:51 10 that part.

09:23:52 11 Q. You just don't remember that part.

09:23:54 12 So you don't remember one way or the otherPage 12



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09:23:56 13 whether the reason for Dr. Jadwin's unavailability

09:23:58 14 was discussed at the removal meeting?

09:24:03 15 A. The reason that I remember and that's all I

09:24:07 16 could say as an answer to that question is that he

09:24:11 17 was not -- had not been there for a lengthy period of

09:24:15 18 time.

09:24:17 19 Q. Okay. And you recall whether there was any

09:24:21 20 discussion of whether Dr. Dutt could have filled the

09:24:24 21 acting or interim chair role during Dr. Jadwin's

09:24:28 22 physical absence or unavailability at KMC?

09:24:32 23 A. Do you mean on a move forward basis or a

09:24:35 24 historical basis while he was gone.

09:24:38 25 Q. Well, isn't it -- I'm asking this question,ROUGH DRAFT


15

09:24:41 1 is it or is it not a common arrangement that when a

09:24:44 2 chair going to be absent from the hospital for a long

09:24:46 3 time that an interim chair would be appointed to kind09:24:49 4 of hold the fort down, an acting or interim chair

09:24:53 5 would be appointed?

09:24:55 6 A. There have been times when that's done.

09:24:56 7 That's correct.

09:24:56 8 Q. Can you name some examples?

09:25:01 9 A. Well, currently we don't have a department

09:25:05 10 chair in OB/GYN and our chief medical officer,

09:25:13 11 Dr. Kercher, was been appointed as an interim chair.

09:25:17 12 Q. Dr. Kercher has, not Dr. Wallace?

09:25:20 13 A. Dr. Wallace had been -- he was initially

09:25:25 14 appointed and Dr. Wallace is no longer there.

09:25:27 15 Q. Oh, he's no longer there.

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A0819rfa (2)09:25:28 16 Do you know why Dr. Wallace is no longer

09:25:32 17 there?

09:25:33 18 A. No. Okay. Can you think of any other

09:25:39 19 examples?

09:25:41 20 MR. WASSER: Your question was if she knew

09:25:43 21 of any instances where an interim had been appointed

09:25:46 22 because a chair was going to be absent for a long

09:25:49 23 period of time. That's not the question she just

09:25:52 24 answered.

09:25:52 25 THE WITNESS: Thank you for that.ROUGH DRAFT


16

09:25:53 1 BY MR. LEE:

09:25:54 2 Q. You didn't understand that? Do you want me

09:25:55 3 to repeat the question again?

09:25:57 4 MR. WASSER: Let's just make sure the two of

09:25:59 5 you are communicating. I don't think she answered

09:26:01 6 the question.

09:26:01 7 THE WITNESS: My -- I was under the

09:26:02 8 impression that you were asking me has there been an

09:26:05 9 instance where an interim has been appointed.

10 BY MR. LEE:

09:26:07 11 Q. Oh, yeah.

09:26:08 12 A. Not -- okay. Not when -- not when we've

09:26:11 13 known that there is -- chair was going to be absent

09:26:14 14 for a long period of time.

09:26:16 15 Q. Okay. So you can't think of any --

09:26:19 16 A. So to answer your question no, I can't think

09:26:21 17 of a time when we have knowingly known that the --

09:26:24 18 that the chair was going to be absent for a long

09:26:26 19 period of time and an interim was appointed --Page 14



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09:26:30 20 MR. WASSER: During the absence.

09:26:31 21 THE WITNESS: During the absence.

09:26:33 22 BY MR. LEE:

09:26:33 23 Q. Okay.

09:26:33 24 A. Okay. It's been -- the instances that I am

09:26:36 25 aware have been totally when we have had no chair.ROUGH DRAFT


17

09:26:41 1 Q. Gotcha?

09:26:41 2 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

09:26:42 3 BY MR. LEE:

09:26:43 4 Q. Okay. Well, was that a consideration at all

09:26:46 5 during -- for you at least during this removal

09:26:48 6 meeting that an interim chair could have been

09:26:50 7 appointed to basically hold the fort down in the

09:26:54 8 department of pathology until Dr. Jadwin was -- was

09:26:57 9 no longer -- was available again?

09:27:00 10 A. That decision was not mine to consider.09:27:05 11 Q. But it's -- it's certainly an alternative to

09:27:09 12 permanent removal of the chair from Dr. Jadwin, isn't

09:27:13 13 it?

09:27:13 14 A. That's not my decision either.

09:27:19 15 Q. Well, why -- I mean, whose -- you could

09:27:25 16 have -- I mean, in theory you could have voted no?

09:27:28 17 Right? And you could have proposed an alternative

09:27:32 18 arrangement such as appointing an acting or interim

09:27:34 19 chair to hold the fort down until Dr. Jadwin was

09:27:37 20 available again. Right?

09:27:38 21 A. Well, those are two separate questions. The

09:27:40 22 first one I could have voted no. The answer is yes,

Page 15



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A0819rfa (2)09:27:43 23 I could have voted no.

09:27:45 24 Q. Yeah.

09:27:45 25 A. I voted yes.ROUGH DRAFT


18

09:27:47 1 The second one, could I have proposed that

09:27:52 2 an interim chair be appointed? I suppose I could

09:28:00 3 have proposed anything, you know, but I didn't.

09:28:03 4 Q. Well, I mean, it's a bit drastic to remove

09:28:06 5 someone from chair. I assume it's not an every day

09:28:08 6 occurrence at KMC, is it?

09:28:11 7 A. It's not an every day occurrence that the

09:28:13 8 chair is absent for a year or greater than a year.

09:28:16 9 In fact, I've never seen that happen in my experience

09:28:19 10 there other than with Dr. Jadwin and I cer- -- he was

09:28:23 11 absent for a very long time.

09:28:25 12 Q. Um-hmm.

09:28:26 13 Well to your recollection how long was

09:28:28 14 Dr. Jadwin absent?

09:28:33 15 A. To my recollection, it was a year or

09:28:36 16 greater.

09:28:36 17 Q. A year or greater.

09:28:38 18 A. I mean, I think so.

09:28:41 19 Q. And do you recall whether or not Dr. Jadwin

09:28:44 20 was absent full time or part time during that year or

09:28:49 21 so?

09:28:53 22 A. I don't recall.

09:28:56 23 Q. Do you think it might have made a difference

09:28:58 24 to your vote?

09:29:01 25 MR. WASSER: If what?ROUGH DRAFT




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A0819rfa (2)

19

09:29:02 1 BY MR. LEE:

09:29:02 2 Q. If he had been absent full time versus part

09:29:05 3 time?

09:29:05 4 A. If he had been absent, you know, would days

09:29:10 5 out of a year, I mean, I wouldn't call that absent.

09:29:17 6 So I'm not sure what you're referring to as part time

09:29:20 7 absence, you know, if the greater part of the year he

09:29:25 8 was gone, I consider that to be absent.

09:29:28 9 Q. Well let's say Dr. Jadwin was during his

09:29:30 10 part time leave, let's say he was on part time leave

09:29:33 11 and he was working one to two days a week.

09:29:37 12 Would that have made any difference in your

09:29:39 13 vote?

09:29:39 14 A. No.

09:29:39 15 Q. And why is that?

09:29:42 16 A. I think I tried to explain earlier that my

09:29:46 17 opinion is the chair needs to be present in the09:29:48 18 department full time in order to manage the

09:29:51 19 department.

09:29:52 20 Q. I see.

09:29:53 21 Okay. And now, I don't know if I actually

09:30:00 22 got an answer to this previously, but do you recall

09:30:04 23 any discussion of the reasons why Dr. Jadwin was

09:30:08 24 unavailable or physically absent?

09:30:11 25 A. No. I -- I indicated that I don't.ROUGH DRAFT


20

09:30:14 1 Q. You don't remember.

Page 17



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A0819rfa (2)09:30:15 2 So in other words, you don't remember one

09:30:17 3 way or the other. It's possible it was discussed or

09:30:19 4 it's possible it wasn't?

09:30:20 5 A. I believe I said that it was possible

09:30:25 6 that -- the fact that he had been absent for an

09:30:29 7 extended period of time had been discussed. I'm

09:30:31 8 aware of that. I don't know whether it was at that

09:30:34 9 meeting or in another discussion.

09:30:36 10 Q. Okay. So I mean again that's a little bit

09:30:40 11 different answer to a different question. But the

09:30:41 12 question I'm asking is if you have any recollection

09:30:44 13 at all of whether the reason for Dr. Jadwin's

09:30:46 14 unavailability was discussed at the JCC -- I mean at

09:30:50 15 the removal meeting?

09:30:51 16 A. I don't recall that.

09:30:52 17 MR. WASSER: You've covered that a few times

09:30:54 18 now.

09:30:54 19 BY MR. LEE:

09:30:57 20 Q. So you don't recall that one way or another.

09:31:00 21 Correct?

09:31:00 22 A. (Witness nods head.)

09:31:00 23 Q. Do you think it would have been important

09:31:00 24 for your decision -- I know you said you thought it

09:31:03 25 was privileged information but even so do you thinkROUGH DRAFT


21

09:31:04 1 it would have been important for your decision to

09:31:06 2 know why Dr. Jadwin was unavailable during 2006?

09:31:09 3 MR. WASSER: And you asked her that before

09:31:10 4 and she's answered that question at least one.

09:31:13 5 MR. LEE: I said even though privilegePage 18



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09:31:17 6 notwithstanding.

09:31:18 7 MR. WASSER: Yeah, she -- answer it again.

09:31:21 8 THE WITNESS: No. He was gone for an

09:31:24 9 extended period of time.

09:31:24 10 BY MR. LEE:

09:31:25 11 Q. Okay.

09:31:26 12 A. And I believe we need to have a department

09:31:27 13 chair there.

09:31:28 14 Q. Regardless for the reason for the

09:31:30 15 unavailability?

09:31:31 16 A. Correct.

09:31:37 17 Q. Do you know anything about the medical leave

09:31:38 18 laws?

09:31:41 19 A. No.

09:31:43 20 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with the term

09:31:45 21 California family rights act?

09:31:48 22 A. Yes.

09:31:49 23 Q. What does that mean to you?

09:31:52 24 A. It means basically that -- that when someone09:31:58 25 asks for a leave of absence that I make sure that I


22

09:32:01 1 refer them to our H.R. department to have all of the

09:32:05 2 details handled appropriately.

09:32:07 3 Q. Um-hmm. Um-hmm.

09:32:09 4 So if someone comes to you requesting a

09:32:11 5 California family rights act leave you would say go

09:32:15 6 to H.R.?

09:32:16 7 A. Absolutely.

09:32:17 8 Q. Okay. And are you also familiar with the

Page 19



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A0819rfa (2)09:32:21 9 term Family & Medical Leave Act?

09:32:25 10 A. Similarly to the other one.

09:32:28 11 Q. So are you -- are you aware that people have

09:32:31 12 a right to medical leave?


09:32:33 14 Q. You do? Okay. Even if it causes

09:32:35 15 unavailability of physical absence from Kern Medical

09:32:38 16 Center?

09:32:41 17 A. Yes.

09:32:42 18 Q. Okay. So if I tell you -- you said you

09:32:45 19 later became aware Dr. Jadwin was on some kind of

09:32:47 20 medical leave?

09:32:48 21 MR. WASSER: She said it it could have been

09:32:50 22 later or earlier. She doesn't remember, counsel.

09:32:52 23 Don't misstate her testimony.

09:32:53 24 BY MR. LEE:

09:32:54 25 Q. Okay. So you can't remember, but at someROUGH DRAFT


23

09:32:55 1 point you learned that Dr. Jadwin was on medical

09:32:56 2 leave. Right?

09:32:59 3 A. I -- there was discussion about the fact

09:33:01 4 that he had had some medical leave.

09:33:04 5 Q. Okay. Do you recall where this

09:33:05 6 discussion -- who was in this discussion, the

09:33:07 7 circumstances?

09:33:08 8 A. No.

09:33:09 9 Q. You don't recall the timing of this

09:33:10 10 discussion?

09:33:11 11 A. No, sir.

09:33:11 12 MR. WASSER: She's answered that, counsel.Page 20



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09:33:13 13 BY MR. LEE:

09:33:14 14 Q. Okay. So now, when the -- when you learned

09:33:18 15 that Dr. Jadwin had been on some kind of a medical

09:33:21 16 leave did it -- did it make any difference to you as

09:33:24 17 to Dr. Jadwin's unavailability?

09:33:26 18 MR. WASSER: You asked her that.

09:33:28 19 THE WITNESS: From the -- no. Obvious --

09:33:37 20 you know.

21 BY MR. LEE:

09:33:38 22 Q. It wouldn't have made a difference? I mean,

09:33:39 23 had you actually learned of his medical leave it

09:33:42 24 didn't make a difference for you. Right.

09:33:44 25 A. I don't know when I learned it. I don'tROUGH DRAFT


24

09:33:46 1 know what discussion was held related to that and I

09:33:50 2 don't know -- I certainly don't know what part of his

09:33:53 3 absence was accredited to a medical leave.09:33:56 4 Q. Okay. You're sitting here -- sitting here

09:33:58 5 today you know he was on medical leave. Right?

09:34:01 6 MR. WASSER: She hasn't even said that,

09:34:03 7 counsel. She just --

09:34:05 8 THE WITNESS: There was discussion that he

09:34:07 9 had participated in some type of medical leave. I

09:34:11 10 don't know if it was one day or if it was two days or

09:34:15 11 if it was 16 days.

09:34:16 12 BY MR. LEE:

09:34:16 13 Q. Okay.

09:34:17 14 A. I don't know anything about it other than

09:34:19 15 that.

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A0819rfa (2)09:34:19 16 Q. Okay. So the answer to my question. I'm

09:34:21 17 going to ask the question again. Sitting here today

09:34:24 18 do you know Dr. Jadwin was on some kind of medical

09:34:26 19 leave. Right?

09:34:27 20 MR. WASSER: When?

09:34:29 21 THE WITNESS: Yeah. When I guess I would

09:34:31 22 ask you.

09:34:32 23 BY MR. LEE:

09:34:33 24 Q. When what? I'm sorry. Your attorney is

09:34:36 25 questions for you. Hold on. Let me say something.ROUGH DRAFT


25

09:34:36 1 If you don't understand a question, please feel free

09:34:38 2 to ask me a question. Okay?

09:34:40 3 A. Okay.

09:34:41 4 Q. So what don't you understand about my

09:34:42 5 question?

09:34:42 6 A. I don't understand when -- you're asking --

09:34:47 7 you're asking me to confirm that I know that

09:34:51 8 Dr. Jadwin was on a medical leave. I don't know that

09:34:56 9 he was on a medical leave. My understanding is --

09:35:01 10 all I know is that there was a discussion about

09:35:03 11 medical leave. I don't know when it was, I don't

09:35:08 12 know if he was on it, I don't know how long it was.

09:35:11 13 I don't know if it was before or after. I don't

09:35:15 14 know.

09:35:16 15 Q. And you don't know whether it was before or

09:35:18 16 after you voted for his removal?

09:35:19 17 A. No.

09:35:20 18 MR. WASSER: And she's told you that I think

09:35:22 19 at least three times now.Page 22



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09:35:23 20 BY MR. LEE:

09:35:23 21 Q. Do you think that's important information at

09:35:24 22 all to know? Let's just say you know -- you know

09:35:28 23 Dr. Jadwin was on medical leave. You don't know the

09:35:30 24 circumstances. Right?

09:35:31 25 A. My -- let me just say something else. IROUGH DRAFT


26

09:35:37 1 know that when I voted I based it on the fact that

09:35:41 2 Dr. Jadwin was not present to do his job.

09:35:48 3 Q. Regardless of the reason?


09:35:50 5 Q. And --

09:35:51 6 MR. WASSER: You keep -- Mr. Lee, if you

09:35:53 7 keep covering the same questions again I am going to

09:35:57 8 adjourn this in just a moment. You've covered it.

09:36:00 9 She's answered your question. Don't go over the same

09:36:03 10 information again or we will leave.09:36:05 11 BY MR. LEE:

09:36:06 12 Q. So I'm going to ask you now this different

09:36:09 13 question.

09:36:10 14 When -- you know, sitting here today knowing

09:36:19 15 that he was on some kind of medical leave, if I

09:36:19 16 represent to you --

09:36:19 17 MR. WASSER: Counsel, she has not stated

09:36:21 18 that. Do not misstate her testimony. You do that

09:36:23 19 again and we are leaving this deposition.

09:36:27 20 MR. LEE: I'm recording this. Okay.

09:36:29 21 MR. WASSER: Good. Record it.

09:36:30 22 MR. LEE: Okay.

Page 23



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A0819rfa (2)09:36:31 23 MR. WASSER: Get her answers down. Pay

09:36:32 24 attention.

09:36:32 25 MR. LEE: Mr. Wasser, would appreciate itROUGH DRAFT


27

09:36:35 1 before you object if you'd let me finish my question.

09:36:37 2 MR. WASSER: You've answered it multiple

09:36:39 3 times.

09:36:39 4 MR. LEE: Mr. Wasser. I'm going to state it

09:36:41 5 again. I will be adjourn this deposition if you

09:36:44 6 don't let me --

09:36:44 7 MR. WASSER: Then we'll both adjourn it.

09:36:46 8 MR. LEE: Mr. Wasser, you are interrupting

09:36:47 9 me again. I'm just going to state for the record

09:36:49 10 that I will appreciate it if you let me finish the

09:36:51 11 question before you state your objections. If you'd

09:36:53 12 like to adjourn you're certainly welcome to do that,

09:36:55 13 but I request as a point of courtesy to not only

09:36:57 14 myself but also to the reporter that you let me

09:36:59 15 finish my question before you begin to speak. Do you

09:37:02 16 understand? Is that understood, Mr. Wasser? Thank

09:37:07 17 you.

09:37:07 18 BY MR. LEE:

09:37:08 19 Q. Okay. So Ms. Smith, I'll represent to you

09:37:14 20 that Dr. Jadwin was on a medical leave in 2006.

09:37:19 21 Okay? So --

09:37:21 22 MR. WASSER: How long? State a complete

09:37:23 23 representation, counsel. When was he on leave? If

09:37:25 24 you're going to make a representation make it

09:37:27 25 accurate. He was not on leave for the entire year.ROUGH DRAFT




29/148

A0819rfa (2)

28

09:37:30 1 That's false.

2 BY MR. LEE:

09:37:31 3 Q. Ms. Smith, Mr. -- Dr. Jadwin was on medical

09:37:34 4 leave for some portion of 2006. Okay? Now --

09:37:37 5 MR. WASSER: That means a day or more.

09:37:39 6 MR. LEE: Mr. Wasser, are you objecting now?

09:37:41 7 MR. WASSER: Yes. You are not giving her

09:37:43 8 facts that she can rely on, counsel.

09:37:46 9 MR. LEE: Can you just please object and

09:37:47 10 leave it at that. I'd appreciate it.

09:37:49 11 BY MR. LEE:

09:37:50 12 Q. Okay. So Ms. Smith, Dr. Jadwin was on a

09:37:53 13 medical leave for some portion of 2006. Do you feel

09:37:56 14 that that would have changed your decision at all at

09:38:00 15 the removal meeting as to whether to vote to remove

09:38:02 16 Dr. Jadwin or not?

09:38:04 17 A. No, sir.09:38:05 18 Q. No, sir. And why is that?

09:38:07 19 MR. WASSER: She's answered that, this is

09:38:09 20 going on six or seven times now.

09:38:12 21 THE WITNESS: Because I feel the chair needs

09:38:15 22 to be present full time to manage the department.

09:38:19 23 BY MR. LEE:

09:38:20 24 Q. Are you aware that person cannot be punished

09:38:24 25 for taking medical leave under California familyROUGH DRAFT


29

09:38:26 1 rights act and the family medical leave act?

Page 25



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A0819rfa (2)09:38:29 2 A. I refer those questions that relate to

09:38:31 3 California medical leave act to H.R.

09:38:35 4 Q. Okay. You didn't think it was important to

09:38:37 5 know what the California family rights act and the

09:38:39 6 Family & Medical Leave Act would dictate in a case of

09:38:43 7 Dr. Jadwin's removal?

09:38:44 8 MR. WASSER: When?

09:38:45 9 BY MR. LEE:

09:38:46 10 Q. At the removal meeting?

09:38:51 11 A. No. I -- I voted according to the way that

09:38:56 12 I felt was in the best interests of Kern Medical

09:39:00 13 Center.

09:39:01 14 Q. Well, do you think that when you vote to

09:39:04 15 remove -- when you voted to remove Dr. Jadwin, did

09:39:08 16 you think it was important to make sure that you were

09:39:10 17 complying with the California family rights act and

09:39:13 18 the California medical leave act?

09:39:14 19 MR. WASSER: That's argumentative, counsel.

09:39:15 20 That assumes she was not complying with it. Don't

09:39:18 21 argue the law with the witness.

09:39:19 22 MR. LEE: It's a different question. I'm

09:39:20 23 asking if you thought it was important to comply with

09:39:23 24 those laws.

09:39:23 25 MR. WASSER: That assumes that there wasROUGH DRAFT


30

09:39:24 1 noncompliance, counsel. That misstates the facts.

09:39:26 2 MR. LEE: No, it does not. I'm asking if

09:39:29 3 she thinks it was important.

09:39:30 4 BY MR. LEE:

09:39:30 5 Q. I'm going to ask you again Ms. Smith --Page 26



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6 A. Well, let me --

09:39:31 7 Q. -- did you think it was important when you

09:39:33 8 voted to remove Dr. Jadwin that -- that the removal

09:39:36 9 complied with California family rights act and the

09:39:38 10 Family Medical Leave Act?

09:39:40 11 A. I believe that it's important to abide by

09:39:43 12 all laws.

09:39:45 13 Q. Correct. Okay.

09:39:46 14 A. I am not aware that there were any laws in

09:39:50 15 question at the time of the vote.

09:39:53 16 Q. Well, were you aware of what the California

09:39:55 17 family rights act and the Family Medical Leave Act

09:39:58 18 would have dictated in Dr. Jadwin's case at the time

09:40:01 19 you voted at the removal meeting?

09:40:04 20 A. I rely on folks who are experts in those

09:40:09 21 areas to guide decisions at Kern Medical Center

09:40:12 22 related to those items.

09:40:14 23 Q. Who are they?

09:40:16 24 A. Our H.R. department, legal counsel.09:40:19 25 Q. Okay. So did you consult or did you hear


31

09:40:23 1 from legal counsel or H.R. regarding Dr. Jadwin's

09:40:28 2 medical leave rights prior to voting at the removal

09:40:31 3 meeting?

09:40:32 4 A. Personally?

09:40:32 5 Q. Yes.

09:40:33 6 A. No.

09:40:34 7 Q. Did you think to check with H.R. or legal

09:40:38 8 counsel as to compliance with all laws prior to

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A0819rfa (2)09:40:41 9 voting to remove Dr. Jadwin at the removal meeting?

09:40:46 10 A. Legal counsel is a part of joint conference

09:40:49 11 committee.

09:40:51 12 Q. So in other words you just expected -- are

09:40:55 13 you talking about Karen Barnes?

09:40:58 14 A. Karen Barnes and/or others.

09:41:01 15 Q. Okay. Well do you recall whether Karen

09:41:03 16 Barnes was present at the removal meeting?

09:41:06 17 A. No.

09:41:06 18 Q. No?

09:41:07 19 Do you recall if any legal counsel was

09:41:10 20 present at the removal meeting?

09:41:12 21 A. I don't recall by name. My experience tells

09:41:18 22 me that there is always at least one legal counsel at

09:41:22 23 the meeting.

09:41:23 24 Q. Okay. But you have no specific recollection

09:41:24 25 one way or the other as to that removal meeting.ROUGH DRAFT


32

09:41:27 1 Correct?

09:41:28 2 A. As to that meeting, no. But the attendance

09:41:32 3 roster would show that.

09:41:35 4 MR. WASSER: It's in the minutes, counsel.

09:41:38 5 BY MR. LEE:

09:41:38 6 Q. And do you recall whether the legal counsel

09:41:39 7 stood up at any point and discussed the relevant laws

09:41:43 8 that could affect -- that could be implicated by the

09:41:47 9 removal of Dr. Jadwin at any time during the removal

09:41:49 10 meeting?

09:41:54 11 A. I don't specifically recall that. That

09:41:58 12 doesn't mean it didn't happen. I just don'tPage 28



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09:42:00 13 remember.

09:42:01 14 Q. Okay. I think the -- I'm going to represent

09:42:19 15 to you that Karen Barnes was present at the removal

09:42:21 16 meeting. Okay? Now, do you recall whether Karen

09:42:24 17 Barnes spoke at all at the removal meeting in regard

09:42:28 18 to the removal of Dr. Jadwin?

09:42:33 19 A. No.

09:42:33 20 Q. No.

09:42:34 21 Do you think it was -- would have been

09:42:42 22 important to hear from Karen Barnes as to the

09:42:45 23 applicable laws that might be implicated by

09:42:48 24 Dr. Jadwin's removal?

09:42:49 25 MR. WASSER: You already asked that,ROUGH DRAFT


33

09:42:50 1 counsel.

09:42:53 2 BY MR. LEE:

09:42:53 3 Q. Do you understand the question?09:42:55 4 A. Would you repeat it.

09:42:56 5 Q. Sure.

09:42:56 6 Do you think it would have been important to

09:42:58 7 hear from Ms. Barnes regarding the applicable laws at

09:43:03 8 the removal meeting with respect to Dr. Jadwin's

09:43:06 9 removal?

09:43:11 10 A. I believe that prior to presenting the

09:43:19 11 recommendations that the staff of Kern Medical Center

09:43:26 12 does their homework related to those items.

09:43:30 13 Q. You just trusted that whatever legal

09:43:33 14 compliance needed to be done was being done behind

09:43:35 15 the scenes?

Page 29



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A0819rfa (2)09:43:38 16 A. Yes.

09:43:39 17 Q. And hearing no advice from or no statements

09:43:43 18 from any legal counsel, otherwise you assumed it

09:43:46 19 would be okay to vote to remove Dr. Jadwin. Right?

09:43:49 20 A. I didn't say that I didn't hear anything. I

09:43:52 21 said I don't remember any.

09:43:54 22 Q. You don't recall.

09:43:54 23 Did you hear from Dr. Jadwin -- was

09:44:00 24 Dr. Jadwin present at the removal meeting, to your

09:44:03 25 recollection?ROUGH DRAFT


34

09:44:04 1 A. No.

09:44:07 2 Q. Did you ever hear from Dr. Jadwin

09:44:10 3 regarding -- did you hear anything from him or see

09:44:12 4 any writing from him regarding his removal from

09:44:15 5 chair?

09:44:15 6 A. Personally?

09:44:16 7 Q. Or -- personally or otherwise.

09:44:19 8 A. No. Actually, I --

09:44:22 9 Q. Did not?

09:44:23 10 A. -- don't....

09:44:23 11 Q. Do you think that was important to hear from

09:44:29 12 Dr. Jadwin at all regarding his removal prior to your

09:44:32 13 vote?

09:44:33 14 A. Me personally?

09:44:34 15 Q. Yeah.

09:44:35 16 A. Not -- I mean, if Dr. Jadwin didn't feel it

09:44:40 17 was important enough to contact me or talk to me,

09:44:44 18 then I suppose it wasn't.

09:44:46 19 Q. How would he have -- to your understanding,Page 30



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A0819rfa (2)

09:44:48 20 how would Dr. Jadwin have known to have contacted you

09:44:51 21 prior to or at the removal meeting?

09:44:53 22 A. How would he have known to contact me?

09:44:56 23 Q. Yes.

09:44:56 24 A. Do you mean how would he get in touch with

09:44:59 25 me?ROUGH DRAFT


35

09:44:59 1 Q. No. No. The question is how would he have

09:45:02 2 known that this removal meeting was going to occur,

09:45:06 3 how would we have known that?

09:45:07 4 MR. WASSER: It's a different question

09:45:08 5 counsel.

09:45:09 6 BY MR. LEE:

09:45:09 7 Q. To your understanding.

09:45:10 8 A. How would he have known that this removal

09:45:13 9 meeting was going to occur?

09:45:15 10 A. I have no idea.09:45:16 11 Q. You just assumed he knew then?

09:45:18 12 A. No.

09:45:18 13 MR. WASSER: That misstates his testimony.

09:45:20 14 THE WITNESS: I don't even know what you're

09:45:22 15 talking about. I'm sorry. You're asking me if I

09:45:24 16 assumed he knew the meeting was happening?

09:45:26 17 BY MR. LEE:

09:45:27 18 Q. Well, you just testified earlier that

09:45:29 19 Dr. Jadwin didn't bother to contact you before his

09:45:32 20 removal. Correct?

21 MR. WASSER: No.

09:45:34 22 THE WITNESS: No.

Page 31



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A0819rfa (2)09:45:34 23 MR. WASSER: That's not what she said.

09:45:35 24 THE WITNESS: You asked me if Dr. Jadwin had

09:45:37 25 contacted me or I felt it was important for him toROUGH DRAFT


36

09:45:41 1 contact me, and I said no.

09:45:45 2 BY MR. LEE:

09:45:45 3 Q. Okay. Now, the question I asked you,

09:45:47 4 Ms. Smith, is did you think it was important to hear

09:45:48 5 from Dr. Jadwin or to see a writing from him with

09:45:52 6 respect to his removal prior to voting to remove him.

09:45:57 7 Do you want me to --

09:45:58 8 A. The answer to that question that you just

09:45:59 9 asked is no.

09:46:01 10 Q. It wasn't important for him to know or --

09:46:03 11 MR. WASSER: That's a different question

09:46:04 12 than you just asked her.

09:46:05 13 MR. LEE: Mr. Wasser, I'm going to ask you

09:46:07 14 again.

09:46:07 15 MR. WASSER: No.

09:46:07 16 MR. LEE: Excuse me, excuse me, Mr. Wasser.

09:46:09 17 You've interrupted me yet again, I'm in the middle of

09:46:12 18 a question and you've continued to interrupt me,

09:46:13 19 please let me finish what I'm saying before you begin

09:46:15 20 to speak. Can you do that?

09:46:17 21 MR. WASSER: Don't misstate her testimony.

09:46:18 22 MR. LEE: I will -- thank you Mr. Wasser for

09:46:20 23 your objection, but I'm going to ask that you refrain

09:46:21 24 from objecting until I finish. Can you do that?

09:46:24 25 MR. WASSER: Don't misstate her testimony.ROUGH DRAFT




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A0819rfa (2)

37

09:46:26 1 MR. LEE: Ms. Wasser, if you interrupt me

09:46:28 2 again I will adjourn this meeting. I've warned you

09:46:30 3 several times that when I'm speaking you cannot

09:46:31 4 interrupt me. Is that understood?

09:46:33 5 MR. WASSER: Don't misstate her testimony.

09:46:34 6 MR. LEE: Mr. Wasser do you understand?

09:46:38 7 MR. WASSER: You have a question to ask,

09:46:40 8 counsel, ask it.

09:46:40 9 MR. LEE: Mr. Wasser I'm going -- I'm

09:46:42 10 warning you that if you interrupt me before I finish

09:46:44 11 my question on the record and you therefore prevent

09:46:48 12 me from creating a record here and the court reporter

09:46:50 13 from recording a clean record. If you do it one more

09:46:53 14 time I will adjourn this. You are obstructing. You

09:46:55 15 need to save your objections until after I've

09:46:57 16 finished my question. You don't even know what my

09:46:59 17 question is before you object. Is that clear09:47:01 18 Mr. Wasser? I'm going to take that as a yes.

09:47:06 19 BY MR. LEE:

09:47:06 20 Q. Okay. Ms. Smith, the question I asked you

09:47:10 21 is did you think it was important for Dr. Jadwin to

09:47:12 22 know that -- did you think it was important for you

09:47:15 23 to know or to hear from Dr. Jadwin what his side of

09:47:19 24 the story was before you voted to remove him?

09:47:21 25 MR. WASSER: You asked her that.ROUGH DRAFT


38

09:47:22 1 THE WITNESS: My answer was yes.

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A0819rfa (2)09:47:23 2 BY MR. LEE:

09:47:24 3 Q. Okay.

09:47:24 4 A. When you asked the question the last time --

09:47:26 5 Q. Okay. Ms. Smith, why did you think it was

09:47:28 6 not important to hear from him and to know his side

09:47:30 7 of the story?

09:47:34 8 A. I -- I indicated that I think it's important

09:47:37 9 for a chair to be present to manage his department.

09:47:43 10 He was not present; therefore, I voted accordingly.

09:47:47 11 Q. That's all you needed to know?

09:47:49 12 A. That's true.

09:47:50 13 Q. The fact that he was absent is all you

09:47:54 14 needed to know?

09:47:55 15 A. Yes.

09:47:55 16 Q. And were you aware that when Dr. Jadwin was

09:47:58 17 going -- was removed from chair it was also going to

09:48:02 18 result in a significant pay cut and a change in terms

09:48:05 19 of his contract?

09:48:08 20 A. I did not make it my business to know other

09:48:10 21 people's salaries.

09:48:12 22 Q. That's not the question I asked, Ms. Smith.

09:48:14 23 A. Okay. No. The answer is no.

09:48:17 24 Q. You didn't know that.

09:48:18 25 You thought -- so did you think Dr. JadwinROUGH DRAFT


39

09:48:20 1 was going to continue with the same rate of

09:48:22 2 compensation with the same job duties after he was

09:48:25 3 removed from chair then of his department?

09:48:27 4 A. Frankly, I didn't think about that part.

09:48:32 5 Q. You didn't think about the implications ofPage 34



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A0819rfa (2)

09:48:33 6 removing Dr. Jadwin from his chair of the department?

09:48:36 7 MR. WASSER: That's not what she said,

09:48:37 8 Counsel. She said she didn't think about that part.

09:48:40 9 Now you're trying to expand it into a different

09:48:42 10 answer. She didn't say that.

09:48:44 11 BY MR. LEE:

09:48:44 12 Q. Do you understand my question?

09:48:46 13 A. Do you want to repeat it?

09:48:48 14 MR. LEE: Madam Reporter, could you please

09:48:50 15 repeat my question for the deponent, please.

09:48:52 16 (Requested portion of record read.)

09:49:07 17 THE WITNESS: No.

09:49:08 18 BY MR. LEE:

09:49:09 19 Q. You did not.

09:49:11 20 Besides Dr. Jadwin's physical unavailability

09:49:29 21 and absence from the hospital, what other basis did

09:49:33 22 you hear about at the removal meeting to -- that

09:49:37 23 dictated -- that persuaded you to vote in favor of

09:49:41 24 removing Dr. Jadwin?09:49:42 25 MR. WASSER: Counsel, you have asked that


40

09:49:43 1 now -- we're over a dozen times on this. We're not

09:49:46 2 going to continue to respond to the same question

09:49:48 3 over and over again. She's covered it.

09:49:51 4 BY MR. LEE:

09:49:51 5 Q. So -- do you understand the question? Do

09:49:56 6 you want me to have the reporter read it back then?

09:49:59 7 MR. WASSER: We're not going to answer the

09:50:00 8 question again, Counsel. That's something else.

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A0819rfa (2)09:50:04 9 BY MR. LEE:

09:50:04 10 Q. Ms. Smith, are you going to answer the

09:50:06 11 question or not?

09:50:06 12 MR. WASSER: I'm instructing her not to

09:50:07 13 answer, Counsel. Is that clear to you? She's not

09:50:09 14 answering the same question yet again. Move on.

09:50:12 15 MR. LEE: What's the basis --

09:50:13 16 MR. WASSER: You've covered it ad nauseam.

09:50:16 17 We're standing on the record the way it stands.

09:50:18 18 BY MR. LEE:

09:50:18 19 Q. I'm going to give you an admonition,

09:50:20 20 Ms. Smith.

09:50:20 21 MR. WASSER: We'll stipulate to the

09:50:21 22 admonition, counsel. Move on.

09:50:23 23 MR. LEE: I think she needs to hear it just

09:50:25 24 once, if you don't mind, Mr. Wasser. The admonition

09:50:28 25 is this: Your attorney's instructing you not toROUGH DRAFT


41

09:50:30 1 answer. It's an improper basis for an instruction

09:50:32 2 not to answer. Ask -- the objection that the

09:50:36 3 question's been asked and answered is not a proper

09:50:38 4 basis for instruction not to answer. Mr. Wasser

09:50:40 5 knows that. He's instructed you not to answer. We

09:50:43 6 disagree with his grounds. We're going to move to

09:50:45 7 compel. We're going to do that immediately and we

09:50:47 8 are going to seek the reconvening of this deposition

09:50:50 9 and the imposition of sanctions on you and/or your

09:50:53 10 attorney.

09:50:54 11 Are you going to follow your attorney's

09:50:55 12 instruction not to my answer my question?Page 36



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09:50:59 13 MR. WASSER: We're going to leave now.

09:51:00 14 We're off the record.

09:51:01 15 MR. LEE: Okay. And let's call judge -- and

09:51:04 16 actually, let's not do that. Let's call Judge

09:51:07 17 Goldner now and deal with this.

09:51:08 18 MR. LEE: I'm not going to go off the record

09:51:10 19 until you adjourn.

09:51:11 20 MR. WASSER: Fine. Your going to adjourn

09:51:13 21 and let's call her.

09:51:14 22 MR. LEE: Okay. We are off the record to

09:51:18 23 speak with the court and to seek a ruling on this

09:51:20 24 right now. It's 9:51 a.m.

09:51:22 25 MR. WASSER: And we're going to need theROUGH DRAFT


42

09:51:23 1 reporter for this conference because she's going to

09:51:25 2 need to read back the multiple questions and answers

09:51:28 3 on the same subject.09:51:29 4 MR. LEE: Sure. That's not the problem. We

09:51:31 5 are off the record at 9:52 a.m.

10:07:01 6 (Recess taken.)

10:07:01 7 MR. LEE: Okay. We are back on the record

10:07:02 8 at 10:07.

10:07:04 9 MR. LEE: Mr. Wasser, and I have agreed that

10:07:06 10 we are going to continue this deposition but not on

10:07:09 11 the topic of the removal meeting but on other topics

10:07:12 12 and we will -- we will submit that to the court for a

10:07:18 13 liti- -- motion in litigation for the court's

10:07:20 14 determination as to whether or not we're -- the

10:07:23 15 deposition should continue or not with respect to the

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A0819rfa (2)10:07:26 16 removal meeting. Is that correct, Mr. Wasser?

10:07:28 17 MR. WASSER: We're going to ask the judge

10:07:30 18 whether you've covered the questions you've covered

10:07:33 19 or get to keep asking them or not. The removal

10:07:37 20 meeting is not the dispute. The dispute is over your

10:07:40 21 repetitive asking Ms. Smith for the reasons for her

10:07:44 22 vote and whether she considered other things and

10:07:46 23 she's answered that definitively and clearly. I've

10:07:50 24 lost count, five, six, seven, eight times. That's

10:07:52 25 the issue.ROUGH DRAFT


43

10:07:53 1 MR. LEE: Mr. Wasser, we don't need to get

10:07:55 2 into it now. We'll save that for the judge.

10:07:56 3 MR. WASSER: The point is it's not the

10:07:57 4 removal meeting. It's that specific question.

10:07:59 5 MR. LEE: The point is, Mr. Wasser, is we've

10:08:01 6 agreed that this deposition will not continue on that

10:08:03 7 topic for now pending a court order. Is that

10:08:06 8 correct?

10:08:06 9 MR. WASSER: Yes. That's correct.

10:08:07 10 MR. LEE: That's the point.

10:08:08 11 BY MR. LEE:

10:08:09 12 Q. Okay, Ms. Smith, are you familiar with the

10:08:12 13 term PCC?

10:08:19 14 A. If I'm not mistaken, that was Dr. Jadwin's

10:08:22 15 term and he used it to designate the -- the chart

10:08:31 16 copy. I think it -- it was product chart copy, I

10:08:37 17 think, for the blood usage.

10:08:40 18 Q. Okay. What's your -- what's your term for

10:08:43 19 it?Page 38



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10:08:44 20 A. So --

10:08:45 21 Q. I'm sorry.

10:08:46 22 A. You know, we have -- I don't -- you know, we

10:08:52 23 have another name for it now and it's something that

10:08:55 24 the computer -- it's spit out by the computer when

10:09:00 25 the blood is -- is processed in the lab and theROUGH DRAFT


44

10:09:04 1 computer company who -- I can't remember the name but

10:09:08 2 it's basically McKesson has named it in their system

10:09:12 3 already and it's some name.

10:09:15 4 Q. Okay.

10:09:15 5 A. I don't know.

10:09:16 6 Q. But you had understand what you mean when

10:09:19 7 you say product chart copy?

10:09:19 8 A. I do understand, yes.

10:09:21 9 Q. So as I understand it product chart copy is

10:09:23 10 some kind of important that needs to be filled out at10:09:26 11 the time of administration of blood?

10:09:27 12 A. That's correct.

10:09:28 13 Q. Okay. And it's -- what is the purpose of

10:09:31 14 the product chart? Why would you take the time to

10:09:33 15 fill out PCCs?

10:09:36 16 A. When blood is being administered there are

10:09:39 17 certain legal requirements and the -- and the product

10:09:44 18 chart copy sort of is a compendium of those

10:09:49 19 requirements for checking the blood and writing down

10:09:53 20 the numbers and so forth.

10:09:55 21 Q. So it's a form of legal compliance?

10:09:57 22 A. It's a form of compliance with -- as you

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A0819rfa (2)10:10:05 23 know, in hospitals we have lots of different

10:10:07 24 compliance issues. It's a -- it's a compliance that

10:10:11 25 the joint commission requires some of the elements onROUGH DRAFT


45

10:10:15 1 the product chart copy and a lot of that depends on

10:10:18 2 your hospital policy.

10:10:20 3 Q. Are you aware if there's -- whether there

10:10:23 4 are any state laws or regulations that would dictate

10:10:26 5 or regulate the filling outs of these so-called PCCs?

10:10:31 6 A. I believe the per Cap -- what does that

10:10:38 7 stand for? California --

10:10:39 8 Q. College of American pathologists?

10:10:42 9 A. College of American pathologists

10:10:45 10 certification of the lab. They probably have some --

10:10:47 11 they have some of the requirements, I guess you could

10:10:50 12 call it, legal, and as I indicated joint commission

10:10:53 13 has some requirements related to administration of

10:10:57 14 blood.

10:10:59 15 Q. Okay. And do you think -- what's the

10:11:05 16 rational, to your understanding, what's the rational

10:11:08 17 behind the laws requiring PCCs? I mean is it just

10:11:12 18 bureaucratic --

10:11:13 19 A. The law doesn't require PCC as such. It

10:11:16 20 requires the documentation of certain elements that

10:11:20 21 you validated when you you're administering the

10:11:24 22 blood.

10:11:24 23 Q. Why would -- to your mind, why is it

10:11:26 24 necessary to validate certain elements when you

10:11:30 25 administer blood?ROUGH DRAFT




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46

10:11:33 1 A. So that the correct blood -- so that you can

10:11:35 2 verify that you're giving the correct -- blood is

10:11:37 3 considered a medication and you need to validate that

10:11:39 4 you're giving the correct blood..

10:11:41 5 Q. Blood is also -- it could potentially be

10:11:46 6 considered a hazardous or toxic substance. Is that

10:11:49 7 correct?

10:11:49 8 A. Certainly it is.

10:11:50 9 Q. So the handling of blood is very dangerous

10:11:54 10 potentially?

10:11:55 11 A. Handling of blood is critical.

10:11:57 12 Q. And the administration of blood could also

10:11:59 13 potentially lead to morbidity or mortality if it's

10:12:04 14 incorrectly done. Correct?

10:12:06 15 A. As with other medications, correct.

10:12:09 16 Q. So blood administration is not something you

10:12:11 17 take lightly. It's a very important patient care10:12:14 18 issue. Correct?


10:12:17 20 Q. Okay. And do you feel that PCCs help

10:12:23 21 promote the safer administration of blood?

10:12:33 22 A. I feel that PCCs are -- no, I don't think

10:12:35 23 that PCC has anything to do with safe administration

10:12:40 24 of blood. That's a person -- that's user issue. PCC

10:12:45 25 offers a way of -- of consistent documentation ofROUGH DRAFT


47

10:12:51 1 what the administering people do -- did.

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A0819rfa (2)10:12:55 2 Q. Well, what are the steps involved in filling

10:13:01 3 out a PCC?

10:13:02 4 A. The steps involved in filling out a PCC are

10:13:07 5 reflective of the process that was used in

10:13:10 6 administering the blood, i.e. two people check the

10:13:17 7 blood to make sure you have the right blood from the

10:13:22 8 blood bank, the patient's vital signs are documented

10:13:25 9 on the record to include the blood pressure, the

10:13:33 10 fact -- after the transfusion the fact of whether or

10:13:35 11 not the patient had any kind of blood reaction or

10:13:39 12 reaction to the blood it is documented.

10:13:42 13 Q. This is all document on PCC?

10:13:44 14 A. It's -- it's -- at that point in time I

10:13:47 15 believe the form was called a PCC but PCC is not the

10:13:51 16 legal name of any kind of a form.

10:13:54 17 Q. I understand.

10:13:54 18 So you were filling out this PCC -- you were

10:13:58 19 recording -- you said the blood pressure, I believe?

10:14:01 20 A. They're several elements. I can't remember

10:14:03 21 them all.

10:14:03 22 Q. Sure.

10:14:04 23 A. And I wasn't ever doing it. It's the nurses

10:14:07 24 on the units that are doing it.

10:14:09 25 Q. Okay. But to the best of your recollectionROUGH DRAFT


48

10:14:11 1 you were saying that you record the blood pressure of

10:14:13 2 the patient?

10:14:13 3 A. Yes.

10:14:14 4 Q. On the PCC and then --

10:14:16 5 A. The unit number.Page 42



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10:14:18 6 Q. Of the blood being administered?

10:14:19 7 A. Correct.

10:14:20 8 Q. And then I understand there's a step at some

10:14:22 9 point where two nurses have to sign the PCCs?

10:14:26 10 A. That's correct. It takes two nurses to

10:14:29 11 double-check the blood unit against the numbers that

10:14:33 12 are already provided and so forth.

10:14:35 13 Q. Um-hmm.

10:14:35 14 A. The name of the patient, all that.

10:14:37 15 Q. So it's like a form of cross verification,

10:14:41 16 then?

10:14:42 17 A. Correct.

10:14:42 18 Q. Make sure the right blood is going to the

10:14:45 19 right patient?

10:14:45 20 A. Correct. It's a documentation that that

10:14:47 21 process has taken place.

10:14:48 22 Q. And you have two nurses involved because

10:14:50 23 it's two pairs of eyes in ensuring that --

10:14:53 24 A. Right.10:14:53 25 Q. -- that the right blood is going to right


49

10:14:55 1 person.

10:14:55 2 A. It could be a nurse and a physician. It

10:14:58 3 doesn't have to be two nurses.

10:14:59 4 Q. So two people?

10:15:00 5 A. Two licensed individuals, uh-huh.

10:15:02 6 Q. So after these two individuals -- these two

10:15:04 7 licensed individuals sign their signatures on the PCC

10:15:08 8 to verify that the process of cross verification has

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A0819rfa (2)10:15:12 9 occurred what happens next with the PCC to your

10:15:14 10 recollection?

10:15:16 11 A. We put it in our chart. It's placed in the

10:15:22 12 patient record so that for all time to come if anyone

10:15:26 13 wants to look and see whether or not that patient

10:15:29 14 received blood that will be in the chart.

10:15:32 15 Q. Um-hmm.

10:15:32 16 What were your -- you were -- you said you

10:15:35 17 were the chief nursing officer. What was the duties

10:15:38 18 of the chief nursing officer with respect to the

10:15:42 19 PCCs?

10:15:44 20 A. My duties with relationship to that are

10:15:48 21 similar to my responsibilities with other items and

10:15:51 22 that is since it was a document that nurses document

10:15:57 23 on I try to make it my responsibility to make sure

10:16:02 24 that those documents are as user friendly, compliant

10:16:06 25 with the regulations that we're looking at at theROUGH DRAFT


50

10:16:11 1 time and -- and audited to make sure that they're

10:16:20 2 being completed correctly and so forth.

10:16:23 3 Q. When you said that you wanted to make sure

10:16:24 4 that the PCCs or the process, filling out the PCCs

10:16:29 5 handling them or whatever that's all complying with

10:16:32 6 the regulations that something you checked with legal

10:16:34 7 counsel on or is that something you were able to do

10:16:37 8 yourself?

10:16:37 9 A. No. We met with the blood -- there's a

10:16:39 10 blood committee at Kern Medical Center and there's a

10:16:42 11 person at Kern Medical Center who actually is very

10:16:45 12 helpful and has been helpful throughout the processPage 44



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10:16:51 13 in making sure that our policy and the form and so

10:16:56 14 forth was compliant with the regulations.

10:16:58 15 Q. Do you know that person's name?

10:16:59 16 A. Michelle Burris.

10:17:01 17 Q. B U RR I.S.?

10:17:04 18 A. Th

202 p request for telephonic conf re deposition disputes

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