15-Apr-1999 D.P.Kelsey - HEPNT update - HEPiX/RAL

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HEPNTHEPNTan update an update

David KelseyDavid KelseyCLRC Rutherford Appleton Lab, UKCLRC Rutherford Appleton Lab, UK

d.p.kelsey@ rl.ac.ukd.p.kelsey@ rl.ac.ukhttp://hepwww.rl.ac.uk/HEPNT/http://hepwww.rl.ac.uk/HEPNT/

15-Apr-1999 D.P.Kelsey - HEPNT update - HEPiX/RAL

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OutlineOutline

• Reminder - What is HEPNT?Reminder - What is HEPNT?• HEPNT meetings (since HEPiX/FNAL)HEPNT meetings (since HEPiX/FNAL)

– Sep 98 (#6)– Dec 98 (Open meeting - #7)– Jan 99 (#8)

• Future plansFuture plans

15-Apr-1999 D.P.Kelsey - HEPNT update - HEPiX/RAL

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What is HEPNT? (1)What is HEPNT? (1)

• Sub-group of HTASCSub-group of HTASC• Set up by HEP-CCC in May, 1997Set up by HEP-CCC in May, 1997• Mandate for 12 months, then extended to 2 yearsMandate for 12 months, then extended to 2 years• Deliberately different from HEPiXDeliberately different from HEPiX

– Small closed group of active NT people• Inform others via the WWWInform others via the WWW

– http://hepwww.rl.ac.uk/HEPNT/– also via the Open meeting (Dec 98)

• Collaboration with HEPiX is importantCollaboration with HEPiX is important– must not polarize the community (UNIX vs

NT)!

15-Apr-1999 D.P.Kelsey - HEPNT update - HEPiX/RAL

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Members of HEPNTMembers of HEPNT

• K. BosK. Bos NIKHEFNIKHEF• A. Chan+othersA. Chan+others SLACSLAC• D. FosterD. Foster CERNCERN• J. GordonJ. Gordon RALRAL• D. KelseyD. Kelsey RAL (Chairman)RAL (Chairman)• A.PaceA.Pace CERNCERN• J. SchmidtJ. Schmidt FNALFNAL• G.P. SiroliG.P. Siroli Univ Bologna+INFNUniv Bologna+INFN• J. SurgetJ. Surget SaclaySaclay• G. TrowitzschG. Trowitzsch DESY - ZeuthenDESY - Zeuthen

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What is HEPNT? (2)What is HEPNT? (2)

• ‘‘Information Exchange’ Information Exchange’ notnot a ‘Solution a ‘Solution Provider’Provider’

• no extensive investigations or developmentno extensive investigations or development• Where necessary (and possible?), Where necessary (and possible?),

– coordinate NT activities– enable interworking between sites– enable interworking NT/UNIX (with HEPiX)

• We do not intend to standardise the desktopWe do not intend to standardise the desktop• We do not recommend (or impose!) single We do not recommend (or impose!) single

solutions on HEP except where necessarysolutions on HEP except where necessary– e.g. compilers

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HEPNT meetingsHEPNT meetings

• 7 (closed) meetings have been held7 (closed) meetings have been held discussing discussing ......– NT installation and configuration – System management– NT farms– CERNLIB, LHC++ on NT, Compilers– WAN file access/sharing – UNIX/NT integration – NT V5.0– Security– Software licensing– Experiences with NT in HEP experiments– Use of NT for development of Webs

15-Apr-1999 D.P.Kelsey - HEPNT update - HEPiX/RAL

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Meeting #6 (CERN) 24/25 Sep 98Meeting #6 (CERN) 24/25 Sep 98

• NT Internet Services on NICE NT Internet Services on NICE (Alberto Di Meglio, CERN)(Alberto Di Meglio, CERN)

– demand for interactive web services growing, including forms, scripts, access to databases

– showed architecture for personal webs for NICE/NT

– http://cname.web.cern.ch/dirname– Use MS FrontPage 98 as authoring tool

• CERN have also tested scalability of NTFS file CERN have also tested scalability of NTFS file serversservers– conclude - can support up to 1000

users/server

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Meeting #6 (2)Meeting #6 (2)

• AFS on Windows NT study (R. Toebbicke, AFS on Windows NT study (R. Toebbicke, CERN)CERN)– AFS client for NT - similar to UNIX client– Good for WAN file sharing (NT/UNIX, or NT/NT)

– Can AFS be used as an NT home file system?– Impact of NTFS specifics (ACLs, Client/Server

both accessing the file, e.g. FrontPage 98)– Few problems encountered

• HEPNT conclusions ...HEPNT conclusions ...– AFS not recommended as sole home file system– best interim solution for WAN file sharing – use NTFS for NT profiles

15-Apr-1999 D.P.Kelsey - HEPNT update - HEPiX/RAL

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‘‘HEPNT Days’ at CERN 2-4 Dec 98HEPNT Days’ at CERN 2-4 Dec 98

• Open meeting (#7) - aimed at NT system managers Open meeting (#7) - aimed at NT system managers • 67 participants from 11 countries67 participants from 11 countries• The important themes…The important themes…

– Installation, configuration and management• CERN, DESY, FNAL, SLAC - all different!• how to scale down in size - cloning seems best

– Windows 2000 (NT5)• Very important issues and opportunities!• We should try to agree on an AD design and

look at possibilities for HEP• An HEP migration group seems desirable

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HEPNT Days (2) #7HEPNT Days (2) #7

– Security• Important!• Must share experiences

– UNIX/NT integration• UNIX and NT are both here to stay• NT is just another operating system• We should use each for the appropriate

tasks• Make it easy for physicists to use which

they want

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HEPNT Days (3) #7HEPNT Days (3) #7

– File serving/sharing• AFS is a very useful interim WAN file

system– NT/UNIX– NT/NT

• But it will not work for everything• We should track developments!

– HEP - physics applications on NT• Early days• It is possible• There are farms

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Meeting #8 (CERN) 28/29 Jan 99Meeting #8 (CERN) 28/29 Jan 99

• WAN file sharingWAN file sharing– INFN proposal for WAN NT domain– Identified need for tests of RAS/PPTP over Internet– AFS/NT is still the interim solution– WWW is likely to be the future

• Windows 2000 (NT5)Windows 2000 (NT5)– several test domains exist– more are coming (e.g. a CERN WG)– useful to collaborate on migration to Windows 2000

• Aim to complete web pages by June 99Aim to complete web pages by June 99

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HEPNT Future Plans (1)HEPNT Future Plans (1)

• Closed meeting - 20/21 May 99 (DESY Closed meeting - 20/21 May 99 (DESY Zeuthen)Zeuthen)

• agenda will include...agenda will include...– Status of HEPNT web pages – plans for Windows 2000– review mandate

• report back to HTASC/HEPCCC• If HEPNT’s mandate is not renewed...If HEPNT’s mandate is not renewed...

– Windows 2000 migration group?

15-Apr-1999 D.P.Kelsey - HEPNT update - HEPiX/RAL

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HEPNT Future plans (2)HEPNT Future plans (2)

• More open HEPNT meetings?More open HEPNT meetings?– The HEPNT Days participants decided

“Yes”– And suggested joint meetings with HEPiX

• A proposal…A proposal…• Let’s try a joint HEPiX/HEPNT meeting next Let’s try a joint HEPiX/HEPNT meeting next

time (USA, Autumn 99)time (USA, Autumn 99)– The HEPNT group prefers an extended

meeting rather than parallel sessions– 4 or 5 days?

• What does HEPiX think?What does HEPiX think?