1 state of new jersey 2 7 8 9 10 11 · 2018. 4. 12. · cunningham: thank you. borough 3of high...

1 STATE OF NEW JERSEY

2 DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY AFFAIRS

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4 IN RE :

5 Local Finance Board :

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9 Location: Department of Community Affairs

10 101 South Broad Street

11 Trenton, New Jersey 08625

12 Date: Wednesday, March 14, 2018

13 Commencing At: 11:25 a.m.

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19 GUY J. RENZI & ASSOCIATES, INC.

20 CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS & VIDEOGRAPHERS

21 GOLDEN CREST CORPORATE CENTER

22 2277 ROUTE #33, SUITE 410

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25 www.renziassociates.com

www.renziassociates.comGuy J. Renzi & Associates (609) 989-9199

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1 HELD BEFORE:

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3 TIMOTHY J. CUNNINGHAM, Chairman

4 DOMINICK DIROCCO

5 FRANCIS BLEE

6 IDIDA RODRIGUEZ

7 TED LIGHT

8 ADRIAN MAPP

9 WILLIAM CLOSE

10 ALAN AVERY

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12 A L S O P R E S E N T:

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14 MELANIE WALTER, DAG

15 PATRICIA PARKIN MCNAMARA, Executive Secretary

16 EMMA SALAY, Deputy Executive Secretary

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1 I N D E X2 ITEM PAGE3 Opening Remarks4 By: Mr. Cunningham 45 Newton Town 46 Eastampton Township Fire District #1 57 High Bridge Borough 118 East Orange City 169 Caldwell-West Caldwell Board of Education 16

10 Gloucester County Improvement Authority 2111 Passaic County Improvement Authority 2312 Highland Park Borough 3113 Jersey City Municipal Utilities Authority 3714 Beverly C. Baytops v. Township of 4415 Irvington16 Hudson County 6517 Adjournment 841819 E X H I B I T S 20 ID DESCRIPTION PAGE21 (NO EXHIBITS WERE MARKED.)2223 R E Q U E S T S2425 (NO FORMAL REQUESTS WERE MADE.)

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1 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Good morning. This2 meeting was previously open to the public3 upstairs. We can move right into the agenda.4 There is one application listed on Consent Agenda5 for the board and that is the Township of Newton6 who is requesting a Non-Conforming Maturity7 Schedule. This relates to a USDA loan. They8 will be constructing a 20 inch water transmission9 main.

10 There is no down payment required11 because their utilities are self-liquidating, but12 because of the way the USDA program operates,13 their Maturity Schedule would not conform with14 Local Bond Law, so they requested a waiver, which15 the board typically grants in such instances, so16 that matter is listed on consent. And if the17 board concurs, I would ask for a motion and a18 second.19 MR. BLEE: Motion.20 MR. AVERY: Second.21 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Mr. Blee. Mr.22 Avery did I hear? Thank you. Roll call, please,23 Pat.24 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Cunningham?25 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Yes.

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1 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Mapp?2 MR. MAPP: Yes.3 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. DiRocco?4 MR. DIROCCO: Yes.5 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Close?6 MR. CLOSE: Yes.7 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Avery?8 MR. AVERY: Yes.9 MS. MCNAMARA: Miss Rodriguez?

10 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Yes.11 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Blee?12 MR. BLEE: Yes.13 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Light?14 MR. CUNNINGHAM: So the board will15 hear from Eastampton Fire District Number One.16 Welcome gentlemen. Mr. Braslow will have you17 introduced, and those that are not counsel will18 need to be sworn in.19 MR. BRASLOW: Good morning. I have20 with me the director, or administrator of the21 board, the board chairman and the chief for the22 fire district.23 (At which time those wishing to24 testify were sworn in.)25 MR. BROCK: Kurt Brock.


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1 MR. O'GRADY: Daniel O'Grady.2 MR. ELISHER: Jason Elisher.3 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Mr. Braslow, one of4 the best fire district applications I've seen in5 my tenure here. Take it away.6 MR. BRASLOW: Well, in that case, I7 have nothing to say then. I'll give a quick8 summary of the application. The fire district9 secured voter approval to purchase a fire truck

10 for an amount not exceeding 585. The actual11 truck will be -- it's a custom pumper through12 Sutphen through state contract in the amount of13 584,995.42.14 The fire district will be disposing15 of two vehicles, a 1996 rescue pumper and a 199616 additional pumper. One they will get rid of17 immediately. The other one they will sell when18 the new truck comes in. We did go out to bid.19 Unfortunately, I believe because of the size of20 the issue, we received only one bid. The21 proposed financing will be for 284,995.42. The22 remaining monies will be capital monies23 accumulated by the fire district.24 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Talk about that a25 little more because I think you should bring that

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1 to the board's attention.2 MR. BRASLOW: The district is using3 $300,000 of its own proceeds which it saved over4 time to pay for the truck. Again, with the5 remaining being financed over a seven year6 period, and those are really the highlights of7 the application.8 MR. BRASLOW: So I appreciate that,9 Mr. Braslow. Over half the cost is coming out of

10 funds you currently have?11 MR. BRASLOW: That's correct.12 MR. CUNNINGHAM: And then the two13 pieces of equipment that are going to be disposed14 of, that will be used to further retire debt15 service?16 MR. BRASLOW: Absolutely correct.17 MR. CUNNINGHAM: So again, I was18 really pleased. Mr. Braslow, I wanted to make a19 point, and this is not directed to Eastampton20 particularly, but every time you and others have21 come in forth related to the fire district, I22 always lament the participation of the public and23 the process and the vote process.24 This one was 90 in favor, 26 opposed25 out of 4,000 registered voters of the district,

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1 which is poor, but unfortunately, it's endemic of2 the fire district elections in general, but I3 have to note that in a different context, the4 Local Finance Board looks at a lot of the ethics5 cases that are involved, and when advocacy, as6 opposed to just telling people that votes are7 going to occur, advocacy is not permitted.8 So it's funny, I just shared with my9 colleagues the irony of, you know, we don't get

10 the votes out, but then from a Local Government11 Ethics side, you can't advocate for a certain12 position, so I was thinking about, as I was13 reading the application today, but honestly, one14 of the stronger applications I've seen, I do15 understand that you sent the 10 bid packages out.16 This is something we have talked17 about. To only get one response is18 disappointing, but again, at least the rates are19 competitive. In this particular case you're not20 even financing half the value of the truck. The21 only thing that had come up as part of the22 review, as you well know, but I'll make sure my23 colleagues on the board are aware is that I guess24 whoever prepares the Eastampton Township roster25 failed to list the fire commissioners as needing

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1 to file financial disclosure statements. That I2 understand has been brought to your attention.3 MR. BRASLOW: It absolutely is being4 corrected. And I will tell you that's5 interesting because that apparently was based on6 advice they received from the township attorney,7 and of course I feel like I've dealt with this8 issue enough times, our immediate reaction was9 not true, we're happy to file, please, and so I

10 did speak to the staff, and that has been11 corrected or in the process of being corrected.12 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Last question.13 Where is Eastampton Fire District Number One?14 MR. BROCK: It's outside of Mount15 Holly.16 MR. CUNNINGHAM: I know where17 Eastampton is. I lived there when I was18 displaced for the storm.19 MR. BROCK: The station itself?20 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Is it the one21 that's near the bakery?22 MR. BROCK: Right across.23 MR. BRASLOW: It's where the bridge24 construction is occurring, it's right there.25 MR. CUNNINGHAM: I lived there for


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1 quite a while when I was displaced by the storm.2 I don't have any questions. Nice job on the3 application. Any questions from any of my4 colleagues?5 MR. BLEE: Motion.6 MR. CLOSE: Second.7 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Mr. Blee makes a8 motion. Mr. Close makes a second. Roll call,9 please.

10 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Cunningham?11 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Yes.12 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Mapp?13 MR. MAPP: Yes.14 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. DiRocco?15 MR. DIROCCO: Yes.16 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Close?17 MR. CLOSE: Yes.18 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Avery?19 MR. AVERY: Yes.20 MS. MCNAMARA: Miss Rodriguez?21 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Yes.22 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Blee?23 MR. BLEE: Yes.24 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Light?25 MR. LIGHT: Yes.

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1 MR. BRASLOW: Thank you very much.2 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Thank you. Borough3 of High Bridge.4 MR. MCMANIMON: I'll introduce the5 people who are here. Ed McManimon from6 McManimon, Scotland and Baumann, bond counsel to7 the borough. To my right is Bonnie Fleming, who8 is the Chief Financial Officer for the borough,9 and to her right is Mike Pappas who is the

10 administrator for the borough. They need to be11 sworn.12 (At which time those wishing to13 testify were sworn in.)14 MR. MCMANIMON: Thank you. The15 request that the borough is making is in16 connection with a 602,000 dollar bond ordinance.17 There is 387,000 authorized in bonds, or notes,18 for a road improvement program. They need an19 extension of credit. This bond ordinance,20 because of an unrelated matter involving the21 sewer utility caused a portion of the sewer debt22 to be included in the general debt because at the23 end of the year, they were no longer24 self-liquidating.25 The reason they were not

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1 self-liquidating is because they're involved in a2 significant litigation with the town of Clinton3 and the Clinton Township Sewage Authority4 regarding rates that were charged that resulted5 in litigation challenging the method by which6 they charged those rates.7 And in 2017, at the end of the year,8 it heated up to the point where they believed9 they had a settlement, but they had depositions

10 and meetings and mediations and whatnot and so it11 incurred costs and costs resulted in the12 utilities revenues being less than the utility13 expenses. And therefore, as you know, at the end14 of the year, the portion that's not15 self-liquidating, it forced their debt to16 3.58 percent. They're raising rates.17 They have debt coming off the books.18 So this year, they will be self-liquidating and19 they will be under their debt capacity. I know20 it's always an issue that you have. So in order21 to adopt this ordinance, we're asking for you to22 grant them the extension of credit.23 I would point out that although24 because of that they don't need a down payment25 and also because there's a grant, a DOT grant,

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1 they don't need a down payment, but they're2 putting in a down payment here anyway, so I think3 it's $35,000 on this ordinance, so I think4 they've done everything that would be financially5 practical and prudent, so we ask you to approve6 the ability for them to adopt this ordinance.7 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Thank you. A8 couple questions. I pulled Exhibit B from the9 app and it looks like there is about 11

10 and-a-half million dollars in non utility debt?11 MS. FLEMING: Mm-mm.12 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Any plans to issue13 further debt at this time?14 MS. FLEMING: Not at this time.15 MR. MCMANIMON: I should point out,16 the water utility, which is self-liquidating, is17 undergoing probably an eight million dollar cost.18 They attempted to sell the utility which failed19 by referendum last November and they are20 proceeding through the NJIB now to finance that.21 That will be additional debt, but it's not going22 to come off the general taxpayers. It will come23 off of water rates which will be24 self-liquidating.25 MR. CUNNINGHAM: So do you expect


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1 that this is going to have an adverse effect on2 the municipality's bond rating?3 MR. MCMANIMON: No. Well, I could4 even ask Dennis DeSanto who is in the audience.5 They have a very good credit rating. This is not6 expected to have any impact at all.7 MR. CUNNINGHAM: I just know when8 because the sewer debt now is non9 self-liquidating is now going to be debt of the

10 municipality, at least in the eyes of the rating11 agencies, for three years, I was curious if there12 is anticipated impact from that.13 MR. MCMANIMON: It's still payable14 from the utility users as opposed to the15 taxpayers.16 MR. CUNNINGHAM: It is outstanding17 debt in the municipality not being18 self-liquidating?19 MR. MCMANIMON: Yes.20 MR. CUNNINGHAM: So Ed, you said you21 expect the utility to return to self-liquidating22 status later this year?23 MS. FLEMING: Yes. We haven't24 adopted our budget yet, but we are looking at25 possible rate increase. We do have some surplus

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1 available.2 MR. CUNNINGHAM: And you introduced3 them on March 8th?4 MS. FLEMING: No, we're introducing5 them on the 22nd.6 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Your budget?7 MS. FLEMING: Yes.8 MR. CUNNINGHAM: First reading of9 this ordinance is on the eighth?

10 MS. FLEMING: We had the first11 reading on the eighth, yes.12 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Questions from the13 board? Hearing none, I would ask for a vote.14 MR. LIGHT: I'll move the15 application.16 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Mr. Light.17 MR. CLOSE: Second.18 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Mr. Close. Roll19 call, please.20 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Cunningham?21 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Yes.22 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Mapp?23 MR. MAPP: Yes.24 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. DiRocco?25 MR. DIROCCO: Yes.

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1 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Close?2 MR. CLOSE: Yes.3 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Avery?4 MR. AVERY: Yes.5 MS. MCNAMARA: Miss Rodriguez?6 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Yes.7 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Blee?8 MR. BLEE: Yes.9 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Light?

10 MR. LIGHT: Yes.11 MR. MCMANIMON: Thank you very much.12 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Thank you. The13 application from the East Orange City was14 deferred at their request which then brings us to15 the Board of Education of Caldwell-West Caldwell16 relating to the ESIP program. Good morning.17 Would you introduce your colleagues and those who18 aren't counsel need to be sworn.19 MS. GORAB: Yes. To my right is20 Thomas Lambe. He's the business administrator of21 the school district, and Mary Lyons from Phoenix22 Advisor who is the municipal advisor to the23 school district. And my name is Lisa Gorab,24 Wilentz, Goldman and Spitzer, bond counsel to the25 school district.

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1 (At which time those wishing to2 testify were sworn in.)3 MS. GORAB: Good morning. So the4 school district is seeking your approval to5 finally adopt a bond ordinance. It's called a6 refunding bond ordinance for five million dollars7 which would fund their energy savings program.8 As you know, in 2009, the state enacted a9 financed legislation that allowed local units to

10 finance energy conservation measures as long as11 the savings from those energy conservation12 measures paid the debt service on the bonds.13 And this financing vehicle, as you14 could guess, was very attractive primarily to15 school districts because, otherwise, they would16 have to go to the voters to do these kind of17 improvements, lighting replacement, boiler18 replacement, controls. They all save energy, but19 notwithstanding this law, they would have had to20 have a referendum to finance them.21 So this law allows us to finance22 these projects two different ways, through a23 lease or through bonds. And you don't see many24 of these applications, or you haven't recently,25 because the lease option was primarily the most


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1 attractive option by which to finance these2 improvements. We did many of them via a lease.3 There were many done in the state. They're long4 term leases between 15 and 21 years, but that5 market has become a little less attractive to6 finance these due to the lowering of the7 corporate tax rate, so banks are not so8 interested in financing these anymore.9 They still finance them, but based

10 on Mary's input we feel like a general obligation11 bond is actually a more attractive option that12 would produce a lower interest rate for the13 board. So we were talking you might start seeing14 some more of these coming up. The district is15 proposing to issue these bonds over a 21 year16 period.17 There is something called18 cogeneration. It's a type of, I don't know. It19 gives you 20 years to finance. It's a way to20 produce energy. It's a very complex -- produces21 heat and cooling. It's a very efficient motor to22 produce energy for the facility. There's a fair23 amount of lighting replacement which has a very24 quick pay back. They also are including a solar25 power purchase agreement in the financing.

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1 So I believe the appendix to the2 application listed all the improvements to be3 undertaken, so the board is seeking your approval4 to adopt this bond ordinance not to exceed five5 million and issue the bonds to finance the6 project on a negotiated basis.7 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Not at all8 critical, but the one thing that I noticed of all9 the ESIPs that have come in front of this board,

10 this is the tightest one we've seen. The savings11 are fairly razor thin. I understand from BPU12 that there have been thinner, I can't think of a13 better word, ESIPs, but they haven't come in14 front of the board.15 So that is something that they have16 looked at, so just I want you and my colleagues17 on the board, and frankly the public, to know18 that we did discuss the application with BPU and19 we were comforted by the fact that the energy20 projections and calculations are very21 conservative. So none of the ESIPs, even some22 that have savings of hundreds of dollars as23 opposed to thousands, have ever failed to reach24 the savings that were projected.25 I guess there probably would be an

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1 ecological benefit to moving forward, so even if2 it's not tremendous in terms of the amount being3 saved, there is a benefit to going to cleaner4 types of energy for the district's energy needs,5 so I just, as I said, we spent some time with the6 application and we looked at it, so --7 MS. GORAB: I might just point out8 too that most recently, we have started pulling9 back on some of the proposed rebates in the cash

10 flow to be conservative. Particularly, a third11 pay for performance rebate which is performance12 related. To receive it, it's performance13 related, and in our experience, there's been some14 struggles to get that third rebate.15 So we've dropped it, so if it comes16 in, it's a bonus, but it's not included. It's17 anticipated to be received, but we did not18 include it in the projections to be conservative.19 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Thank you. Any20 other questions on the application?21 MS. RODRIGUEZ: I'll make a motion.22 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Ms. Rodriguez makes23 a motion.24 MR. CLOSE: Second.25 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Mr. Close seconds.

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1 Roll call, please.2 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Cunningham?3 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Yes.4 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Mapp?5 MR. MAPP: Yes.6 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. DiRocco?7 MR. DIROCCO: Yes.8 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Close?9 MR. CLOSE: Yes.

10 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Avery?11 MR. AVERY: Yes.12 MS. MCNAMARA: Miss Rodriguez?13 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Yes14 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Blee?15 MR. BLEE: Yes.16 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Light?17 MR. LIGHT: Yes.18 MS. GORAB: Thank you.19 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Thank you. Good20 luck with the project. The next matter in front21 of the board arises from the Gloucester County22 Improvement Authority. I had waived the23 appearance of the applicant because, while this24 was part of a larger landfill expansion project,25 the only matter in front of the board is they're


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1 seeking positive findings for the county2 guarantee.3 So the county is putting 10,500 of4 the guarantee on a project that's being issued5 through the New Jersey I Bank, which was formally6 the EIT, so we simply did not have any issues7 with the application, so I would ask for my8 colleagues indulgence with a motion and a second9 to approve this application.

10 MR. MAPP: Move.11 MR. AVERY: Second.12 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Motion and a13 second. Roll call, please.14 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Cunningham?15 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Yes.16 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Mapp?17 MR. MAPP: Yes.18 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. DiRocco?19 MR. DIROCCO: Yes.20 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Close?21 MR. CLOSE: Yes.22 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Avery?23 MR. AVERY: Yes.24 MS. MCNAMARA: Miss Rodriguez?25 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Yes.

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1 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Blee?2 MR. BLEE: Yes.3 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Light?4 MR. LIGHT: Yes.5 MR. CUNNINGHAM: The board will next6 hear from the Passaic County Improvement7 Authority. I would ask that this group kindly8 introduce themselves for the record, and those9 that aren't counsel will need to be sworn in.

10 MR. CAHILL: Richard Cahill,11 director of finance.12 MR. MCMANIMON: Ed McManimon,13 McManimon, Scotland and Baumann, bond counsel to14 the authority.15 MS. FOX: Nicole Fox, executive16 director, Passaic County Improvement Authority.17 MS. LITZEBAUER: Heather Litzebauer18 from NW Financial, financial advisor to the19 Improvement Authority.20 MR. WIELCOTZ: Steve Wielcotz,21 Ferraioli, Wielkotz, Cerullo and Cuva, auditors22 to the county and the Improvement Authority.23 (At which time those wishing to24 testify were sworn in.)25 MR. MCMANIMON: Phil Norcross always

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1 said, this is a fairly straight forward2 application by an Improvement Authority, so I'll3 quote Phil, but this is a 17 million dollar4 proposed financing to undertake a fairly5 diversified DPW county project to solidify and6 put everything in one place basically with all7 the different services.8 The application reflects a 30 year9 maturity, but based on discussions before coming

10 to this meeting, they're going to do it over11 15 years as opposed to 30 years because, as Steve12 can testify, that they have a drop off of debt13 service in 2020 and using a 15 year schedule14 makes more sense than doing a 30 year schedule,15 so I have the people here who can answer any16 questions about it.17 It's a lease, not a county18 guarantee. It's a full faith and credit lease19 under the Improvement Authorities Law. It has20 the same weight in the market because it's an21 obligation that's valid and forcible and binding,22 so it's an Improvement Authority private23 property, build the project, lease it to the24 county under the full faith and credit lease25 under the County Improvement Authorities Law, so

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1 it's paid for by the county, appropriated money2 for the lease payments equal to the debt service3 and the fee to the Improvement Authority which is4 built into this in the 0.125 percent. So any5 questions you have, we have a group here, other6 than the county administrator.7 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Rich, could you8 tell us a little bit about the project? Where is9 it, by the way?

10 MR. CAHILL: It's in Wayne. It's11 the former Nike base, so it's going to allow us12 to consolidate a number of our operations and13 bring them all to one location.14 MR. CUNNINGHAM: I saw it on the15 application, but remind me who is going into this16 facility.17 MR. CAHILL: The Roads Department,18 Mosquito Control Division.19 MR. MCMANIMON: Weights and20 Measures.21 MR. CAHILL: Weights and Measures,22 and I believe ultimately they'll bring in the23 Sheriff's Department, the mechanics there as24 well, but it will be a Paratransit as well.25 MR. CUNNINGHAM: You're currently


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1 leasing some space for them? Are you going to2 have a lease savings?3 MR. CAHILL: Yeah. There will be4 some savings, and also one of the sites we'll be5 able to sell somewhere down the road.6 MR. WIELKOTZ: Director, this takes7 the last piece of operational anything from 3178 Pennsylvania Avenue, Patterson, the old county9 administration down by the farmers market.

10 MR. CUNNINGHAM: You had severe11 environmental challenges there as I recall from12 my tenure.13 MR. WIELKOTZ: There's issues, but14 this will finally clear the way once the new15 facility is up and running for the county to16 explore selling that piece of property finally.17 MR. CUNNINGHAM: So I know what the18 total financing is, but what's the expected cost19 of the new building or improvements being done?20 MS. LITZEBAUER: 414.3 million.21 MR. MCMANIMON: And they will only22 borrow the amount they need. They won't borrow23 17 million unless the costs and all the other24 aspects of the reserves are necessary.25 MR. CUNNINGHAM: So at the time I

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1 read the application, I think it was still a2 longer Maturity Schedule, but regardless of that,3 the application stated, and I think for the same4 reason you talked about, the Maturity Schedule,5 that this project will not adversely impact6 either the county's rating, which I know the7 county worked really hard on, Steve and Nicole,8 but it's also not going to affect the county tax9 rate. And I guess the reason for it is because

10 of that debt service that's dropping off?11 MR. WIELKOTZ: Right. In 2019,12 there is a small drop off. And then in 2020,13 there is a significant drop off, somewhere around14 four or five million dollars, so we had a15 discussion. We looked at 15, 25, 25 and 30 and16 the incremental difference in the annual payment17 between 15 and 30 was only a couple hundred18 thousand dollars, so it made no sense whatsoever19 to not do the short term.20 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Nicole, just21 something that popped up, I would have asked you22 before had I seen it, but is this project23 undertaken controversial in some way? Because24 looking at the vote sheet for the resolution to25 make application to the Local Finance Board,

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1 there was only three affirmative votes and no2 no's abstentions or absences were identified.3 MS. LITZEBAUER: At the time, there4 was only three commissioners.5 MS. FOX: I thought you were talking6 about the county meeting. We only had three7 commissioners present at that meeting.8 MR. CUNNINGHAM: It's not for any9 other reason than of attendance?

10 MS. FOX: Yeah.11 MS. RODRIGUEZ: The Freeholder Board12 was financed, right?13 MR. CAHILL: Yes.14 MR. LIGHT: That raises a concerned15 question whether significant members of the16 commission that were present who constitute a17 quorum.18 MS. LITZEBAUER: Yes, we only have19 five members.20 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Any other questions21 from the board?22 MR. AVERY: I'm just curious as to23 the total size of the site. It's for my own24 edification. Is it an acre? Two acres,25 14 acres?

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1 MS. FOX: I have toured it before.2 I don't know how many acres.3 MR. WIELKOTZ: It's multiple acres.4 MS. FOX: Pretty large. It's in the5 back, you don't even know it's there.6 MS. RODRIGUEZ: What is the address7 exactly?8 MR. WIELKOTZ: It's right off of9 Route 23 North, Gary's Wine and Liquor. It's the

10 driveway right before the entrance to Ski Barn.11 MR. CLOSE: You have the recycling12 there?13 MR. CAHILL: Yes.14 MR. CUNNINGHAM: When they call it15 the Nike base, I worked there. It is a Nike16 missile base, so there are these very large17 gigantic manholes that covered missile sites, but18 the facility -- so we talked about the size of19 that facility, but we also didn't mention you're20 putting in a new salt dome there, too. That's21 270,000 square feet of a salt dome alone that's22 going on the site.23 MR. AVERY: That's going up.24 MR. CUNNINGHAM: That's true.25 MR. MCMANIMON: Outdoor storage as


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1 well.2 MR. AVERY: I'm familiar with a3 couple of Nike sites, and they're not that big4 and that's why I asked the question.5 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Any other questions6 from the board? Entertain a motion and a second?7 MR. CLOSE: So moved.8 MR. MAPP: Second.9 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Thank you.

10 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Cunningham?11 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Yes.12 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Mapp?13 MR. MAPP: Yes.14 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. DiRocco?15 MR. DIROCCO: Yes.16 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Close?17 MR. CLOSE: Yes.18 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Avery?19 MR. AVERY: Yes.20 MS. MCNAMARA: Miss Rodriguez?21 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Yes.22 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Blee?23 MR. BLEE: Yes.24 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Light?25 MR. LIGHT: Yes.

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1 MR. WIELKOTZ: Thank you very much.

2 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Thank you.

3 Highland Park Borough.

4 MR. MCMANIMON: Thank you. Ed

5 McManimon from McManimon, Scotland and Baumann,

6 bond counsel, special counsel to Highland Park

7 Borough. Teri Jover, who is the administrator of

8 the borough is here.

9 (At which time those wishing to

10 testify were sworn in.)

11 MR. MCMANIMON: This is a relatively

12 straight forward application like the Bridgeton.

13 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Second time you

14 said that.

15 MR. MCMANIMON: Highland Park is

16 seeking to dissolve the existing Highland Park

17 Redevelopment Agency, and essentially, take over

18 the responsibilities by designating themselves as

19 the redevelopment entity for all redevelopment

20 that will go on there. There's very limited

21 activity. There's no staff and there's really no

22 reason for the continued existence of this

23 redevelopment agency.

24 There is a redevelopment agreement

25 that's been approved, but not signed, which will

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1 convert over to the responsibility of the2 borough. This will save them, you know, some of3 the administrative fees that would otherwise that4 would go in keeping an agency alive that doesn't5 need to be active, so I think the view is they're6 in a much better position to keep the same7 activity but do it internally at the borough8 governing body than run it as a separate entity,9 so we're asking for the approval.

10 I believe we've established that11 they have very little to identify what it is, so12 we believe we've assumed the responsibility for13 all the services and for all of the obligations.14 There's no debt, but there's just contractural15 obligations so we assume the responsibility for16 those. And as I said, there is no employees that17 we have to be concerned about, and all18 professional contracts that exist will be19 terminated.20 It will be converted into the21 borough to the extent they choose to decide who22 the auditor and lawyers are. There's an23 outstanding grant which they will assume24 responsibility for proceeding with, so any25 questions, Teri will be here to answer them.

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1 MR. CUNNINGHAM: So that grant is a2 good segue into the only question I had, and you3 got the points I wanted on the record because,4 Ed, I think as much as it's a less complicated5 application, the statutes are certainly the same6 and the principals are certainly the same.7 MR. MCMANIMON: Correct.8 MR. CUNNINGHAM: The question I had9 is looks like the expenses of the existing

10 authority were about 81,000, but when we look at11 the budget, the budget was significantly less and12 showed expenditures of 17,000 and around 18,000.13 Is the difference the grant? Do you know?14 MS. JOVER: Let me just look. Are15 you talking about the budget for the agency16 budget?17 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Yes.18 MS. JOVER: I base the number -- the19 81 is based on two years of expenses the20 borough -- we run basically administratively, the21 agency now, so I looked at actual expenses over22 two years is that 81. I don't have --23 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Again, I realize24 you probably don't have this in front of you.25 MS. JOVER: Yeah. Sorry.


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1 MR. CUNNINGHAM: It's okay. The2 audit reports?3 MS. JOVER: Yeah.4 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Of the authority,5 for 2015 and '16, has significantly lower6 expenditures of 17,000 and 18,000 as opposed to,7 you know, what you had just said were8 significantly higher for two years. And I was9 wondering what the difference was between the

10 numbers you were using, the audit report. The11 only thing I could come up with potentially is12 that it wouldn't be the reflection of the grant.13 MS. JOVER: It must be the14 professional fees. To answer your grant15 question, we haven't spent down those grants yet.16 We have one outstanding invoice that we haven't17 paid that would go against that grant for18 environmental services.19 It's an HDSRF grant, so the answer20 is no, it's not the grant that it counts for21 that, but I believe we just had ongoing22 professional costs between the legal and23 potentially the planner. I don't have the24 numbers in front of me and the audit should be25 the bulk of that.

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1 MR. CUNNINGHAM: And that's where2 you're anticipating getting a savings from?3 MS. JOVER: The auditor, we won't be4 having monthly meetings with the attorney there.5 Those were the costs that were accruing.6 MR. CUNNINGHAM: 2,000 for the audit7 likely savings was reported. 4,000, legal, 4,0008 dollars in in-kind cost of the audit.9 MS. JOVER: Yeah.

10 MR. CUNNINGHAM: That's right?11 MS. JOVER: Mm-mm.12 MR. CUNNINGHAM: As your counsel13 previously said, there's sufficient cash on hand14 to fund any and all liabilities of the authority.15 MR. MCMANIMON: Yes.16 MR. CUNNINGHAM: For the agency, I17 should say. Rest of the points, I think, were18 covered. Any questions from my colleagues? Did19 you include an effective date, or are you going20 to do it effective upon the board's --21 MR. MCMANIMON: Once you dissolve22 it, they'll adopt the ordinance. Once you23 authorize it, they'll adopt the ordinance. It24 will be effective immediately upon that as the25 statute provides. Once they adopt the ordinance

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1 it's effective because we don't have a transition2 to deal with. There's no transition plan because3 it will terminate all the professional fees.4 MS. JOVER: That's our hope is to do5 that quickly because we do have some projects6 that we want to get into the governing bodies to7 get them up to speed on things.8 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Questions? I'd ask9 for a vote.

10 MR. BLEE: Motion.11 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Mr. Blee.12 MR. LIGHT: I'll second it.13 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Mr. Light.14 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Cunningham?15 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Yes.16 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Mapp?17 MR. MAPP: Yes.18 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. DiRocco?19 MR. DIROCCO: Yes.20 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Close?21 MR. CLOSE: Yes.22 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Avery?23 MR. AVERY: Yes.24 MS. MCNAMARA: Miss Rodriguez?25 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Yes.

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1 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Blee?2 MR. BLEE: Yes.3 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Light?4 MR. LIGHT: Yes.5 MR. MCMANIMON: Thank you very much.6 MS. JOVER: Thank you.7 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Thank you. Jersey8 City MUA.9 MR. SCERBO: Good morning, Director.

10 My name is Ryan Scerbo. I'm with the law firm of11 DeCotiis, FitzPatrick, Cole and Giblin, general12 counsel to the Jersey City Municipal Utilities13 Authority and with me is John Folk. He's the14 director of finance at the JCMUA.15 (At which time those wishing to16 testify were sworn in.)17 MR. SCERBO: So this application18 revolves around a current contract at the JCMUA19 under the New Jersey Water Supply Public Private20 Contracting Act. The contract that's currently21 in effect was procured in 2008 by the JCMUA22 awarded to Suez Water. Suez and the JCMUA have23 gone through nearly the entire 10 years, contract24 term, the initial term.25 That expires at the end of this


38

1 month, and beginning in 2016, the parties sat2 down and began to negotiate an extension of the3 contract which was contemplated under the4 original agreement. However, under that original5 agreement, approval by the Board of Public6 Utilities at least, I wasn't certain if this body7 had made the same requirement.8 But the Board of Public Utilities9 indicated that if we did extend the contract,

10 they would like us to resubmit an application as11 if it were a brand new application for12 submission, so we did that and we also submitted13 to this body as well.14 It is a substantial change to the15 contract, one that economically benefits the16 JCMUA, but it also modernizes some of the tasks17 being performed by the operator, tries to account18 for changing circumstances and changing laws that19 we've been experiencing over time and we held a20 public process, we held a public hearing. We21 received no public input.22 We've moved on through the23 application process and answered some discovery,24 questions from the Board of Public Utilities,25 most of which I've characterized, in my

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1 experience, as standard questions. We did supply2 those questions and answers to this body as well,3 and we're here today seeking approval under the4 statutory requirements.5 MR. CUNNINGHAM: So the current6 agreement expires on the 31st of this month?7 MR. SCERBO: It does, yes. And we8 know we were tight in our submission.9 Unfortunately, there was some changing issues

10 going on at the JCMUA, but we also tried to back11 pedal. We didn't put any pressure on the12 reviewing entities. We know we have 60 days. In13 fact, the Board of Public Utilities will actually14 be finishing outside of their review window, but15 we granted -- they asked for an extension and we16 accepted that.17 And we are seeking from Suez18 currently and we anticipate having it today, a19 one month extension of the current contract by a20 letter agreement, just to allow for a meeting at21 JCMUA that still has to take place.22 MR. CUNNINGHAM: The one thing I was23 just curious about, and this is not at all a24 concern. I'm just curious, so in '16, the25 authority notified Suez if you wanted to exercise

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1 both options at once?2 MR. SCERBO: Correct.3 MR. CUNNINGHAM: I was curious as to4 what the prudence of that would be.5 MR. SCERBO: Really synergy. Some6 of the advancements in this contract and the7 agreements we made, particularly around AMI, the8 Advanced Metering Infrastructure investment takes9 some time to implement that. And the first

10 extension was a four year extension followed by a11 five year, so we didn't think that we could get12 the same kind of concessions out of Suez if we13 offered them four years.14 We thought we would do a better job15 with the nine as a total. Under the Act, we're16 entitled to up to 40 year arrangements, so we17 thought we'd be ticking along. We thought it18 would be better to put all nine years together19 and see what we can negotiate.20 MR. FOLK: And we've been satisfied21 with the service that we received from Suez.22 Basically for the price. One thing in particular23 was during Superstorm Sandy, everyone had water24 and, you know, they have certainly provided clean25 safe water to the residents of the city.

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1 MR. SCERBO: Or 35,000 meters.2 MR. FOLK: Yes.3 MR. CUNNINGHAM: I think I would be4 remiss if I didn't ask about the comptroller's5 report, so maybe you could discuss that for the6 record, the issues that were identified. I know7 the authority has its response, but I think that8 should be discussed.9 MR. SCERBO: So we did receive a

10 controller report, review and report. The report11 with respect to Suez identified a couple of12 issued around contracting, a couple of issues13 around bulk water purchase issues. We've14 provided a full response to the controller. That15 response is posted on their website, along with16 the report currently, and we are working with17 them to prepare a corrective action plan on those18 issues.19 We took steps in this contract to20 address some of those circumstances. Bulk water,21 we've been well ahead of the curve on putting22 together our application and submitting that.23 That's before the city currently, and when the24 city approves that, it will go down to DEP, but25 we've structured the term of that contract to


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1 avoid some of the situations that were pointed2 out to us under the controller's report.3 I think the relationship between4 Suez and JCMUA was actually complimented by the5 controller overall. When you look at the items6 they pointed out, and not to make light of them,7 but given the size of the facility that we're8 operating with Suez and the number of customers9 we have, they were relatively minor issues

10 overall, so we were comfortable with our11 response, I think.12 MR. CUNNINGHAM: In the past, prior13 to approving contract extensions are similar,14 this board is asked that one person be submitted15 as the contract administrator and prepare16 quarterly reports that get submitted.17 MR. SCERBO: Sure.18 MR. CUNNINGHAM: We would ask you to19 do that. You can submit it to my attention and20 approval.21 MR. SCERBO: I think we did the same22 thing in Rahway. It might take us a week or two23 to provide you with that person, but we can24 definitely do that.25 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Any questions?

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1 Hearing none, I'd seek a motion and a second.2 MR. MAPP: Move.3 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Second.4 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Cunningham?5 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Yes.6 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Mapp?7 MR. MAPP: Yes.8 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. DiRocco?9 MR. DIROCCO: Yes.

10 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Close?11 MR. CLOSE: Yes.12 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Avery?13 MR. AVERY: Yes.14 MS. MCNAMARA: Miss Rodriguez?15 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Yes.16 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Blee?17 MR. BLEE: Yes.18 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Light?19 MR. LIGHT: Yes.20 MR. SCERBO: Thank you very much.21 MR. CUNNINGHAM: So the next two22 matters in front of the board deal with appeals23 of director's decision, my decision, to come out24 of the Division of Local Government Services, so25 I shall recuse myself to the gallery and Vice

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1 Chairman Mrs. Rodriguez will take the gavel for2 the balance of the meeting.3 MS. HUDAK: My name is Shannon4 Hudak. I'm the manager of the Certification Unit5 for the Division of Local Government Services.6 This matter involves an appeal of the director's7 final decision affirming the initial division of8 Administrative Law Judge Thomas Betancourt which9 approved the settlement agreement between the

10 township of Irvington and its tax collector,11 Beverly Baytops.12 I was just going to briefly, by way13 of procedural background, summarize what took14 place in this case. Here, the township filed a15 complaint with the director of the Division of16 Local Government Services in August of 201717 seeking the removal of Miss Baytops from her18 tenured position as tax collector. The matter19 was thereafter transmitted to the Office of20 Administrative Law for a plenary hearing as a21 contested case.22 On November 6, 2017, the parties23 advised that they had reached a settlement24 agreement and the terms of the agreement were25 placed upon the record at that time. Thereafter,

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1 ALJ Betancourt issued a written initial decision2 on November 21st 2017 memorializing the terms of3 the party's agreement. The initial decision was4 then forwarded to the director.5 Having received no exceptions to the6 initial decision and having no objections to the7 terms of the party's agreement, the director8 issued a final decision on January 5th 20189 approving ALJ Betancourt's initial decision and

10 the settlement agreement. Subsequently, on11 January 12th 2018, counsel for Miss Baytops filed12 a present appeal with the Local Finance Board13 pursuant to N.J.S.A. 52:27BE-15. The LFB must14 now determine whether to sustain or reverse or15 modify the determination of the director.16 MR. PHILLIPS: Good morning.17 (At which time those wishing to18 testify were sworn in.)19 MR. PHILLIPS: I'm Lucas Phillips.20 I represent Miss Baytops as tax collector, or was21 the tenured tax collector in Irvington, who is to22 my right. We are seeking a modification of the23 director's determination, in that, there had been24 minor discipline imposed upon Miss Baytops with25 respect to the same subject matter that was the


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1 basis of the tenure charges.2 The minor discipline involved two3 days loss of pay, and that was imposed in March4 of 2017. Subsequent to that, and has been5 indicated in the record, the township brought6 tenure charges in August. Those tenure charges7 included the same subject matter that was the8 subject for the minor discipline that had9 previously been imposed.

10 During the course of the litigation11 in front of the judge, I made a motion to12 restrict the amount, not the amount, but the13 matters that would go forward based upon the fact14 that prior discipline had been imposed. The15 township's position was that they had been16 mistaken in applying minor discipline previously,17 arguing that they did not have the authority18 because the authority for tax collectors19 circumstances are subject to the director.20 My position, and I thought they were21 inaccurate with that representation, was that22 with respect to major discipline, which is23 removal, demotion and substantial suspension24 which is over five days, that was corrected. The25 director had that responsibility and therefore it

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1 had to be incorporated in tenure charges.2 However, with respect to minor discipline, which3 is five days or less, or written reprimands, that4 a township could in fact reprimand a tenured tax5 collector.6 The judge accepted the7 representation of the township that they were not8 accurate in terms of their initial application of9 minor discipline and the matter proceeded. After

10 several days of hearings, I think it was two in11 fact, we arrived at a settlement. The settlement12 was a voluntary demotion to the position of13 assistant tax collector, no findings of wrong14 doing and no suspension.15 We had disagreements as to the16 written content of the actual settlement17 agreement in writing and therefore there was no18 settlement agreement put forth in writing. Our19 position is simple. You can't have it both ways.20 If you're going to impose minor discipline and21 then decide to pursue tenure charges based upon22 the same subject matter, once the matter is23 resolved in a tenure proceeding and it's resolved24 without findings of wrong doing and no25 suspension, then what was previously imposed has

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1 to be vacated. That particular minor discipline2 has to be purged and two days of the suspension3 needs to be returned. It's as simple as that.4 MS. RODRIGUEZ: So first, I want to5 establish that the director did not make that6 determination. This was something that was7 handed to him and he saw it through, so the8 determination didn't come from this board or from9 Director Cunningham.

10 MR. PHILLIPS: Understood.11 MS. RODRIGUEZ: At the time that the12 settlement was done or was accepted, that was the13 time, I believe that these are the points that14 should have been brought up then and they15 weren't.16 MR. PHILLIPS: Well, can I address17 that issue?18 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Sure.19 MR. PHILLIPS: During the course of20 the argument on whether the matter should go21 forward as tenure charges, in light of the fact22 that minor discipline had previously been23 imposed, counsel for the township argued that24 they were mistaken legally by proceeding25 initially, and in fact on the record, said that

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1 they would return two days because they accepted2 the proposition that they were wrong by imposing3 the discipline in the first place.4 The matter proceeded, and at the end5 of the matter, there was no suspension agreed to6 or imposed. It was simply an agreed to reduction7 in position, and obviously, since she was going8 to a non tenured position, giving up her tenure.9 That, in and of itself, inherently requires that

10 the prior discipline that was imposed has to be11 vacated or removed or purged.12 It's inherent in settling a matter13 without suspension and for a voluntary reduction14 in position, so you know, there are some things I15 submit that are obvious that should not16 necessarily have to be rehashed, particularly17 when on the record, counsel for the township had18 previously said, while they're arguing, to19 continue with the proceeding even though they had20 imposed discipline prior thereto, oh, in fact I21 think the representation was, well, we'll have22 her two days back in a week, never came.23 So the fact is that representation24 was made. We relied, and Miss Baytops relied, on25 that representation. The matter was settled with


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1 no findings of wrong doing with a voluntary2 reduction in position. Inherent in that is the3 return of the funds that were previously imposed4 as punishment and the vacating of the minor5 discipline that the township argued they didn't6 have the authority to impose in the first place.7 Although I didn't agree with that legal8 proposition, but that was put forth by the9 township and accepted by the ALJ judge.

10 MS. RODRIGUEZ: That's where it's11 at. I mean, you're asking us, the issue of the12 two days -- and, please, colleagues, the issue of13 the two days lies with the city, with the town,14 with the township of Irvington, not necessarily15 in this board. Basically, that is what you're16 seeking aside from a vacate or a change in the17 determination that came to this board.18 MR. PHILLIPS: Well, I respectfully19 disagree. Obviously, the township is the body20 that docked the two days and has the money.21 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Right.22 MR. PHILLIPS: So obviously, they're23 the ones that ultimately, if they do so, have to24 return the funds.25 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Right.

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1 MR. PHILLIPS: This was not2 presented to you without efforts to get the3 township to comply with what they had suggested4 they were going to do during the course of the5 matter and they declined to do so. You6 ultimately have the ability to modify the7 director's determination. It's not that --8 MS. RODRIGUEZ: You keep saying the9 director's determination.

10 MR. PHILLIPS: Well, the director --11 maybe my language is --12 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.13 MR. PHILLIPS: The director14 adopted --15 MS. RODRIGUEZ: What was said.16 MR. PHILLIPS: And made a final17 decision accepting a resolution of a matter. The18 resolution of a matter was no suspension, also a19 reduction to a lower position that was non20 tenured. It did not include minor discipline21 remaining in place and two days that were docked22 based upon prior discipline remaining.23 MR. DIROCCO: I appreciate the back24 board of that. I think what we're struggling25 with, or what I'm struggling with, is typically

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1 in a situation where we have a settlement it2 dispatches all the claims, all the controversies3 are resolved and all those ancillary items are4 handled, but it seems like here, after the5 settlement which I guess was never reduced to6 writing.7 MR. PHILLIPS: No, it wasn't.8 MR. DIROCCO: And the settlement was9 agreed to verbally, it appears, and this is not

10 having something in writing, now there are11 lingering questions as to what that settlement12 actually means, you're asserting -- and I give13 you the benefit of the doubt that you're14 asserting that it was contemplated that the days15 would be paid, but there is this dispute, and I16 think what the Chairwoman is struggling with, and17 I agree, is really all the director did here was18 to confirm the settlement that was handed down,19 essentially, from the ALJ.20 So we're, I think, a little bit21 reluctant to modify that in any way, shape or22 form. I think where we think this lies is back23 with the ALJ who originally agreed with the24 settlement. I think that's what we're struggling25 with. So procedurally, if we were to not change

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1 the director's decision today, what would happen?2 Would you then go back -- would you have the3 ability to go back to the ALJ?4 MR. PHILLIPS: No. Because your5 action would be the final administrative action,6 and any subsequent appeal would have to go to the7 Superior Court Appellate Division. If I'm8 pounding a point, but I think it's clear on the9 record that part of the settlement was there were

10 to be no suspension. By the way, Miss Baytops11 was suspended from her participation from her12 work at the township but it was with pay.13 They had made an emergent14 application in an attempt to suspend her without15 pay and that was denied so she was being paid16 throughout the proceedings. If the settlement,17 which is clear and undisputed, was a reduction to18 another position, therefore giving up your tenure19 going to a lower paying position and no20 suspension.21 And there had previously been a22 suspension imposed based upon the same subject23 matter that was now before the director through24 the ALJ, then those two days are inherent to be25 returned because, ultimately, the final


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1 resolution, even though it wasn't reduced to2 writing, it was clear, there would be no3 suspension.4 And quite frankly, the township5 presses for a suspension. They wanted some days,6 and I appreciate having been on that side of the7 board from some time in positions representing8 townships, there had been several months in the9 preparation of this matter and the trial of this

10 matter in which Miss Baytops wasn't performing11 any services but was being paid, so it was an12 effort to recruit some of that back when they13 were unsuccessful in getting her suspended14 without pay through their emergent application.15 So in essence, what I'm asking is16 really it is termed a modification, but it's17 really an affirmation that since this was18 resolved without a suspension, the days of19 suspension that were imposed should be returned.20 MR. DIROCCO: I understand what21 you're saying. The problem I'm having is you're22 saying an affirmation that none of us, including23 the director, were in the room to hear. We24 didn't hear the oral or verbal terms of the25 settlement that were put forth. We didn't hear

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1 it, so how are we to modify what was said by some2 other body, some other entity that we weren't --3 that's the problem I'm having.4 MS. RODRIGUEZ: And the settlement5 was agreed upon.6 MR. BLEE: As the attorney said, if7 we uphold the decision today, it's final. I'll8 throw this out to the attorneys. If we table the9 motion today, would that give you the ability to

10 go back to the ALJ one more time?11 MR. PHILLIPS: Well, it would give12 me the ability to obviously reach out for counsel13 for the township and see if they were willing to14 agree to, you know -- it's ironic because it is15 two days pay and I don't want to pooh-pooh the16 fact --17 MR. LIGHT: It's not like we're18 robbing a bank or anything like that.19 MR. PHILLIPS: This is true, so even20 time and energy that's expanded at this point is21 sort of, it's beyond the principal of thing,22 because obviously there is a minor discipline23 sitting in her file and there was a two day24 suspension and she agreed to a resolution that25 benefitted, from the township's perspective, to a

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1 lower position allowing them to put somebody else2 in that position.3 MR. CLOSE: You're a civil service4 community?5 MR. PHILLIPS: Yes.6 MR. CLOSE: So would this be filed7 with civil service, the suspension? Typically8 it's filed once it's issued. Is that already9 done?

10 MR. PHILLIPS: The two day is in her11 file. It was imposed. Because it's minor12 discipline, you don't have an appeal through the13 civil service process.14 MR. CLOSE: Right. It was less than15 five days.16 MR. PHILLIPS: Less than five days.17 MR. CLOSE: It is filed with civil18 service?19 MR. PHILLIPS: It is filed. Not20 being the attorney for the township, I would21 assume that they followed the procedures. The CC22 list on the memorandum has the township attorney.23 You would assume that that would have been the --24 MR. MAPP: The part that I'm25 struggling with is that Mr. Phillips keeps

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1 referring to a settlement, and there appears to2 be nothing that we can reference that was reduced3 to writing as proof as to what both parties4 agreed to. Is there such a document?5 MR. PHILLIPS: There is no document.6 However, Mayor Mapp, however, if there had not7 been a settlement, then the determination as to8 whether or not removal, or something less than9 removal of the tenured position --

10 MS. RODRIGUEZ: There is a document11 though that was not signed, but there is a12 document.13 MR. PHILLIPS: There was a drafted14 document.15 MS. RODRIGUEZ: There was a drafted16 document.17 MR. MAPP: Not signed by parties?18 MR. PHILLIPS: No.19 MS. RODRIGUEZ: No.20 MR. CLOSE: It's a transcript?21 MS. MCNAMARA: I don't know if I can22 testify or not. When this appeal came in, I got23 the records from the certification unit and we24 had a disk with the transcript, not transcript,25 the verbatim recording of the hearing. It ended


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1 at a certain point where the judge had asked the2 parties to go into chambers, so we requested the3 OAL to revisit their file and send us anything4 that may have addressed the settlement itself.5 They sent us a new disk which did6 have a recording of the settlement discussion and7 so we do have a disk. I listened to it and it8 did include the discussion of the settlement9 terms, so I didn't share it with the board

10 members at this moment, but we could do that if11 you wanted to put this off and hear that part12 itself.13 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Let me just state14 this. The ALJ heard all of these issues and15 they're on the record, right? And he asked Miss16 Baytops if she understood the terms of the deal,17 and the ALJ gives deference as to factual18 determinations, so he reviewed your appeal,19 modification and he determined it was not part of20 the deal.21 So that determination is called due22 deference. We can table this, as you requested,23 Mr. Blee, and hear the disk, or whatever the24 staff provides us, and come back, you know, next25 month with a document and a vote.

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1 MR. MAPP: I have a question.2 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Yes.3 MR. MAPP: Does the attorney for4 Mrs. Baytops and Mr. Phillips concur with the5 statement you just heard from the chair, that the6 ALJ reviewed it and it was not a part of the7 settlement?8 MR. PHILLIPS: I believe what the9 chair is indicating is that after the discussion

10 on the record of what the settlement involved,11 there was a question posed whether my client was12 satisfied with the settlement.13 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Right.14 MR. PHILLIPS: However, if we15 understand the bases of the settlement, which is16 on the record, the bases of the settlement is a17 voluntary reduction in position, giving up a18 tenured position, no suspension and there was19 some mention, I believe, of the fact that the20 secondary position had a particular funding line21 and she would be going back, not back to but to22 that funding line.23 And the point that I'm making is24 that if you resolve the matter with no findings25 of wrong doing and no suspension for an employee

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1 who has been removed from participating but2 suspended with pay, then any suspension that3 previously had been imposed, based upon the4 allegations of the tenure charges as the town5 argued they didn't have the authority to do,6 inherent in that is you get your two days back.7 And in addition to that, counsel for8 the township, on the record, when they argued9 that the tenure charges should go forward,

10 including what previously had been disciplined,11 they said they were going to return the money.12 It just never happened. Now, I can appreciate13 why it didn't happen. They were anticipating an14 outcome where they prevailed, and in the15 situation where they prevailed they certainly16 would have been arguing removal and certainly17 some substantial suspension.18 So the two days that they had in19 their pocket would have become part of whatever20 the ultimate sanction was imposed if they had21 prevailed. They didn't prevail. We settled the22 matter, and on the record, the settlement23 involved no suspension. That, in and of itself,24 inherently requires, I submit, that the township25 return the two days.

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1 MR. BLEE: I had another question.2 In the hearing before the ALJ, did the suspension3 come up? Was it part of the record?4 MR. PHILLIPS: Yes. Because I filed5 an extensive motion to dismiss certain components6 of the tenure charges based upon the fact that7 there had been prior discipline incorporating8 those very same facts. Quite frankly, I believed9 I was correct in what I was requesting to be

10 done. There are decisions that basically say you11 can't refile charges of an administrative nature12 in order to attempt to enhance punishment when13 you've already decided on previous punishment and14 discipline.15 The ALJ disagreed and decided that16 the matter would continue with the tenure charges17 that incorporated the prior minor discipline, but18 when you resolve the matter at the end of the19 day, after several days of hearing, but I think20 you infer that as a consequence of the resolution21 of this matter, there were problems with respect22 to their matter and I anticipated problems with23 respect to ours, so you arrive at a resolution.24 If the resolution is no suspension25 and a voluntary reduction in position and no


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1 findings of wrong doing, then the prior2 discipline that they imposed is inherent in that,3 that is officiated or removed and the days that4 were taken are returned. You know, sometimes in5 proceedings, and the point is well taken that,6 you know, you need to dot every I and cross every7 T, but there are some things, particularly as an8 attorney who's representing a person and another9 attorney representing the other side has argued,

10 well let's go forward with this even though we11 did this and we were wrong and you'll get your12 two days back in a week.13 You rely upon certain things that14 were said, and when you asked if we're satisfied,15 yes, we're satisfied. No suspension, voluntary16 reduction, no findings of wrong doing. I submit17 that inherently requires that if you took money18 based upon this alleged conduct, that that money19 must be returned.20 MR. BLEE: I guess my follow up21 would be every fact that you've presented today22 to the board has been presented.23 MR. PHILLIPS: Has been presented to24 the ALJ and argued, and as I said, I did not25 agree with many of the determinations, and I

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1 particularly did not agree with continuing with a2 matter that had previously been, in essence,3 adjudicated on a minor disciplinary matter as the4 civil service law allows and then you're going to5 bring tenure charges on the same subject matter.6 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Mr. Phillips, my7 question to you is, why did you not bring this up8 when you had the opportunity during the9 settlement?

10 MR. PHILLIPS: It was brought up11 during the -- it wasn't brought up while we were12 on the record during the settlement because,13 quite frankly, I think when we say no suspension14 is going to be imposed and there's no finding of15 wrong doing, then the previous discipline that16 had a suspension subject to it, should be17 returned.18 Particularly, since the previous day19 of proceedings when the judge decided to continue20 with the tenure charges that had previously been21 dealt with in minor discipline, counsel, Mr.22 Lester, said hey, no problem, we'll have your two23 days back in a week. It didn't seem like that24 was something that needed to be addressed because25 it had previously been addressed and was inherent

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1 in no suspension.2 MS. RODRIGUEZ: That was your3 interpretation that in the no suspension --4 MR. PHILLIPS: No suspension means5 no suspension. I don't think there's any6 interpretation. No suspension and my client is7 being paid, and you're taking money as a8 disciplinary suspension, then that requires --9 MS. RODRIGUEZ: What we're going to

10 do, we're going to table this. We're going to11 get the rest of the information and come back12 next meeting.13 MR. DIROCCO: And maybe you could14 ask if you could continue -- the best thing from15 our perspective is for you guys and the city to16 work out something. If you can continue to work17 with city officials because -- I don't know why18 they're not here. That's another thing. Maybe19 they should be here, just for the record, and I'm20 a little bothered by the fact that we don't have21 one party here. I give you guys credit for being22 here. I don't know why the city is not here.23 MS. RODRIGUEZ: We could ask the24 city to submit something or --25 MR. PHILLIPS: They did.

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1 MR. DIROCCO: So make a motion to2 table this? I'll make that motion.3 MR. BLEE: Second.4 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Mapp?5 MR. MAPP: Yes.6 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. DiRocco?7 MR. DIROCCO: Yes.8 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Close?9 MR. CLOSE: Yes.

10 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Avery?11 MR. AVERY: Yes.12 MS. MCNAMARA: Miss Rodriguez?13 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Yes.14 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Blee?15 MR. BLEE: Yes.16 MS. MCNAMARA: Mr. Light?17 MR. LIGHT: Yes.18 MR. PHILLIPS: Thank you, Assistant19 Director and the Board.20 (At which time those wishing to21 testify were sworn in.22 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Good afternoon.23 MR. WITT: Good afternoon, Vice24 Chair. Thank you for having me. My name is25 Michael Witt. I am special counsel to the County


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1 of Hudson, New Jersey. I am here to address the2 matter of Executive Order Number TAD 70. I am3 the person who drafted the Executive Order. I am4 the person who corresponded with the director of5 DLGS, so I'm the guy that you get here today to6 talk about this.7 This is an appeal of decision of the8 director of DLGS, actually two different9 decisions, that were made that the county is

10 appealing and this deals with the Executive Order11 and let me just very briefly set the background12 of how this matter came up. Earlier in 2017, the13 Office of the State Comptroller was reviewing14 Hudson County's contracting practices.15 I believe we had a contract that met16 the minimum threshold value and the17 representative of the office was making sure18 everything was okay. At the time, Hudson County19 had an Executive Order in place, which was TAD20 46, which had two requirements in it. For21 contracts over $500,000 in value, that for Public22 Works contracts, I should say, of over $500,00023 in value, that in order to be a successful bidder24 on the project, the bidder had to have an25 apprenticeship program in place approved by the

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1 federal government or the state government and2 also that there was a minimum safety training in3 place as well.4 The comptroller noted to Hudson5 County that he thought there was a previous6 similar requirement somewhere in the state that7 DLGS had reviewed and found was not acceptable.8 It was a pre-qualification that was9 anti-competitive. So sure enough, we did a

10 little research, found the Local Finance bulletin11 that did in fact discuss that and said exactly12 what I just said, that such a requirement for an13 apprenticeship program was anti-competitive and14 not allowable.15 So the one previous case where this16 happened was actually Mercer County. Mercer17 County passed an ordinance and had similar18 requirements, but for a much lower threshold19 value. I believe their threshold was like 350020 dollars, something very, very low, so I sent an21 OPRA request in to DLGS for the opinion letter on22 that and got it and took a look at that and saw23 exactly why DLGS had said that this was not --24 that what Mercer County was not allowable.25 So we drafted TAD 46, which became

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1 TAD 70, specifically to address those points that2 were brought up by DLGS, and I think that we3 accomplished that. So we sent a copy of it --4 TAD 70 was passed by the County Board of5 Freeholders. We sent a copy to the director of6 DLGS as a courtesy because we did not believe7 that it is a pre-qualification, and that, again,8 is the first thing we're appealing from Director9 Cunningham's decision.

10 We believe it is a minimum11 requirement and nothing more similar as to you12 have to provide your business license. You have13 to provide your certification for14 anti-discrimination, mandatory language like15 that, and it's nothing more. As far as the16 substance goes though, we also disagreed with the17 opinion that the apprenticeship program was18 anti-competitive, and I just want -- I know you19 have the papers, and obviously if you have any20 specific questions, I will be happy to answer21 them.22 Very briefly though, the county is23 responsible for making sure that construction24 projects that it does are performed safely and25 they're performed competently and that is all

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1 TAD70 is designed to do. And again, these large2 scale projects, half a million dollars is the3 minimum buy end for TAD 70 to kick into effect.4 If it does, and if the project5 requires craft work, then we will require that6 there be an apprenticeship program, or TAD has an7 alternate which says if your company does not8 have an apprenticeship program, we will accept9 certification from you that the craft employees

10 that you're going to use have certain minimum11 experience.12 Craft workers are people who do13 specialized work. They're welders, they're14 electricians, people of that nature. They're15 people who direct other people. The county16 simply believes that if a job requires somebody17 like that, we want to make sure that that person18 is properly trained, that they are safely trained19 and that's it. There's no other goal beyond that20 then to make sure that that kind of work for a21 public project gets done properly.22 Now, if it's a $500,000 contract for23 landscaping, this Executive Order doesn't kick24 into place. It's, again, only those contracts25 that require specialized work. In addition, we


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1 also believe that for those large scale2 contracts, that everybody working on that project3 should have the minimum safety training required4 by both OSHA and POSHA. POSHA is for public5 employees, and this is our point.6 If the county were doing these7 projects themselves, we would absolutely have to8 have minimum safety training for every person9 working on that job, no doubt about it.

10 Likewise, if we contract things out, we want to11 make sure that everybody on these large scale12 projects that require specialized work, has13 minimum safety training.14 For your day laborer, just a general15 grunt laborer for a construction project, that is16 10 hour OSHA training. That's for everybody,17 that training is required. For craft workers, it18 is minimum OSHA 30 hour training because, again,19 that's a specialized job and it's people who are20 supervising other people so you want to make sure21 they know what they're doing as well.22 Again, the reason behind this we23 think is obvious. If something goes wrong, the24 county is on the hook for it. And what's the25 first thing that a lawyer suing us is going to

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1 ask? Were your people qualified? Were your2 people properly trained for safety? And if we3 can't answer both of those questions yes, then4 we're just going to open a checkbook, and that5 lawsuit is never going to see the light of a6 courtroom, and really it's as simple as that.7 If there were any board member who8 was having work on their house, you would want to9 make sure the contractor had people who knew what

10 they were doing, right? Of course you would.11 You're not going to just go and grab the first12 person off the street who says, yeah, I'll do13 that for $20,000. You want to make sure they14 know what they're doing.15 You're going to check their16 references, you're going to check to make sure17 they're using the right equipment, that they're18 doing the job safely, that once they leave, your19 house isn't going to fall down on you and that's20 all the county is asking for here. And if there21 are any questions on this, again, there were22 specific questions that the director of DLGS23 raised.24 I don't believe this is25 anti-competitive. In particular, the comment was

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1 it's anti-competitive to small business because,2 obviously, if you're a large business, you can3 afford to have a apprenticeship training program.4 It's a little bit easier for you to do. That's5 why we put an alternate in. We're not saying6 that you have to just have an apprenticeship7 program. We're saying that, okay, you can hire8 people who haven't gone through that program, but9 we want them to have seven years of experience.

10 Why did we choose seven years?11 Because apprenticeship programs, and this is from12 the state of New Jersey itself, apprenticeship13 programs usually last between four to six years14 for this kind of job with the average being four15 years. 2,000 hours a year of on the job16 experience through the apprenticeship program, so17 you're looking at somebody who has had18 8,000 hours of training if it's an apprenticeship19 program.20 We think that seven years, we21 discounted the years. Maybe the person is not22 working full-time. Maybe they're only working23 1500 hours a year, but we still want to have that24 minimum level of competency, that minimum level25 of experience, and that's why we chose that. For

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1 the safety training, again, we just want the2 people we hire to have the same training that our3 own people would have to have if they were doing4 the exact same job. Nothing more. And that's5 really about it.6 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Anybody have any7 questions?8 MR. LIGHT: What are you really9 asking of us at this point in time to resolve

10 concerns that you have?11 MR. WITT: Well, what we're asking,12 again, is we do not believe this is a13 pre-qualification that requires DLGS approval, so14 that's the first thing we're asking.15 MR. LIGHT: So you're asking that16 that be waived; is that correct?17 MR. WITT: We're asking that this18 board find that it's not a pre-qualification19 requirement, not that it would be waived. It20 would not be required.21 MR. LIGHT: Because the director22 required it.23 MR. WITT: Exactly. Because the24 director said, yes, it would be required. The25 second thing I guess that we're asking for is


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1 laid out in what I just said, which is an2 acknowledgement that this is a good idea. This3 is an idea that everybody should be doing. It's4 just not Hudson County, it's not just Mercer5 County; that when you have these large public6 projects, putting this building up, for example,7 that you have people who are actually qualified8 to do the job, that you have people who have the9 minimum safety requirements.

10 Obviously, we would like more, but11 we know that we can't require more. We know that12 may be getting anti-competitive because there is13 a cost obviously associated with OSHA 10 and OSHA14 30. It's not that much. OSHA 10, the going rate15 is 65 dollars for the class right now, and I16 can't remember what it is for OSHA 30, but that's17 not too much to ask for public safety when you're18 spending public dollars.19 And the other thing I would ask is20 that if there are any additional questions that21 were raised by DLGS, we'd be happy to answer22 them. We'd be happy to redo TAD 70 so it23 addresses all those concerns, and we believe that24 we have.25 MR. DIROCCO: I was going to ask

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1 you, you submitted the Executive Order with the2 pre-qualification provisions to the division,3 correct?4 MR. WITT: We did, but we did not --5 MR. DIROCCO: But you submitted it6 and now you're saying we don't need your7 approval. I don't understand. To me, it's a8 little bit, it's troubling that you're saying we9 don't need to comply with your requirements, yet,

10 here, please bless this.11 MR. WITT: And that's a great12 question. Under Local Public Contracts Law, if13 you're going to have pre-qualifications for14 contracting, you do need to submit them to the15 director of DLGS for approval.16 MR. DIROCCO: And why is that?17 MR. WITT: Because they want to make18 sure that it's not anti-competitive and these19 kind of things.20 MR. DIROCCO: So then when the21 decision comes back that it is, certainly you22 don't need their approval. This is where I'm23 struggling here. If the policy is, and we all24 have to agree with, which is if we're talking25 about spending significant public funds, we got

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1 to make sure we're not directing them to one2 particular business. We want to make sure --3 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Or the trades.4 MR. DIROCCO: Exactly.5 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Or the trades.6 MR. DIROCCO: And that's the public7 policy behind requiring that, so when a decision8 comes back that, yeah, we think this goes over9 the line, now suddenly you want to say, well, we

10 don't really need your approval anyway. That's11 problematic.12 MR. WITT: And again, it's a great13 question, it's a great point, but again, the14 county does not consider this to be a15 pre-qualification. We're not saying once you16 meet this standard you are now available and able17 to bid on any contract for the county you want.18 It only comes into play on these particular19 contracts.20 MS. RODRIGUEZ: On public dollars.21 MR. WITT: On public dollars. And22 again, with regard to your point, Madam Chair,23 with regard to steering towards the trades.24 MS. RODRIGUEZ: No, no, no. That's25 not what I said. That's not what I said.

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1 MR. WITT: Okay.2 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Make the correction.3 I was just including the trades, but I wasn't4 saying steering to anybody. Public dollars are5 public dollars.6 MR. WITT: Right.7 MS. RODRIGUEZ: And that's why it8 comes here. You know, that's why it comes to the9 Division of Local Government Services because

10 when we're talking about public dollars, that's11 exactly what they are. And so I didn't say that12 steering to the trades or apprenticeship programs13 or whatever.14 MR. WITT: Right. And that is why15 we put the alternates in, so it doesn't have to16 be an apprenticeship program but you do have to17 certify that your people know what they're doing18 and they have the experience there.19 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Right.20 MR. WITT: So getting back to is it21 a pre-qualification, is it not a22 pre-qualification. Yes, we don't believe it is,23 but we recognize the role that DLGS plays. We24 recognize the role that Local Finance plays, so25 we didn't want to just say, you know what, forget


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1 them, we're going to do what we want. We2 submitted it to the director to get his opinion3 on it and he had very good comments. I believe4 that we addressed those comments, and if there5 are further comments, we would certainly address6 those as well.7 We do want to make sure this is not8 anti-competitive. There is nothing in this9 Executive Order that says a small business can't

10 partner with a larger business that does have an11 apprenticeship program. They can be the general12 and the other people can be the subs. They can13 put together any kind of business or they can do14 the training. They can get the minimum safety15 training and they can do the certifications, and16 we're good with that. In fact, we even made the17 forms up for it and that's our point.18 MR. CLOSE: I think you talked about19 safety earlier. I presume on jobs over half a20 million dollars you're getting people because21 they have a vested interest on hiring safe people22 and coming to you and only those types of23 individual firms are going to be coming forward24 because they have the wherewithal, the resources,25 the checklist as you talked about, the equipment

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1 to perform the job.2 MR. WITT: Exactly.3 MR. CLOSE: Plus, they're also4 providing you, I'm presuming your contract5 provides surety bonds and other forms of6 insurance that if you get sued you're simply7 going to subrogate the claim back against those8 policies and or against the surety bond, so there9 does seem to be some protections in place as well

10 with those additional tools. Are there not?11 MR. WITT: There should be, and12 that's actually an excellent point as well13 because I can check to make sure the company has14 the proper equipment to do the job, but are you15 telling me that I can't check that they have the16 people that are trained to use that equipment?17 That's what I want to be able to check. That's18 it. I just want to make sure they can use the19 equipment properly.20 So if I can do that and that's not a21 pre-qualification, I don't think this is either,22 and if this board decides it is a23 pre-qualification, then the county will gladly24 submit it according to the procedure in the Local25 Public Contracts Law.

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1 MR. AVERY: Just to follow up on2 that point. Someone in Hudson County is going to3 check the qualifications of every potential4 employee of a contractor that bids on a job?5 MR. WITT: It's the craft workers.6 And, yes, we will.7 MR. AVERY: I'm a little confused.8 MR. WITT: The applicant will9 certify that they have the training, and that

10 only is going to apply to the craft workers, but11 as far as the training, same certification. And12 if we find out that somebody who gets the job13 does not have that training, that's going be a14 problem between us and the bid.15 MR. AVERY: What's your recourse?16 To require that employee to get training or to17 cancel the contract?18 MR. WITT: Or they're going to have19 to replace that employee with somebody who does20 have the proper training.21 MR. LIGHT: The contractor.22 MR. WITT: Right.23 MR. AVERY: I guess I'm also a24 little concerned about your definition of what a25 craft employee is. Plumbers are licensed by the

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1 state of New Jersey. Electricians are licensed2 by the state of New Jersey. You could have the3 same type of protection for those types of jobs4 by just saying that they require a licensed5 plumber.6 And my experience with major public7 contractors, there's also the requirement for a8 safety plan and a safety office to be present on9 site, so I'm not sure what you're getting up

10 front that you don't get on the back I guess is11 my point.12 MR. WITT: Well, we get the13 assurance up front, but again, that is exactly14 the point about what is a craft worker that the15 director of DLGS brought up with both Mercer16 County and with regard to Hudson County. And for17 us, because I had the benefit of seeing that18 comment on the Mercer County ordinance, we put in19 a definition of what a craft worker is. And the20 way I crafted it is I took a definition from the21 federal government definition of craft worker and22 blended it in with the state's definition as23 well.24 Because I don't want to, when we're25 going through this analysis, I don't want to be


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1 arguing about, well, what's a craft worker, so2 let's use two established definitions, put them3 together, one from the feds and one from the4 state and that should be good enough to go and it5 will be workers who fall under that area.6 MR. DIROCCO: I commend the county7 for taking steps to make sure that they're8 properly trained and workers are working on their9 jobs and these are entities that are vetted. I

10 think that's all great, and I mean that. I'm11 earnest when I say it. I commend the county for12 taking those steps, but I think -- and the EO is13 drafted carefully calibrated to get to those14 points.15 But you have a nine pages Executive16 Order, nine pages of specificity with regard to17 apprenticeship, training, all these specific18 requirements through this nine page document, you19 know, but now you're telling me that it's simple.20 There is simple measures, these are not over the21 top, these are not significant requirements.22 It's a simple -- just to make sure23 that these folks are trained that you have nine24 pages of requirements. I'm having a little25 trouble that that is not so specific and so

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1 directed that it couldn't possibly ever be2 considered to be anti-competitive. I'm having a3 little bit of difficulty there. It is so4 lengthy, so comprehensive.5 And I give you credit as an attorney6 for drafting a very complex document, but it's7 that comprehensive. It's a little difficult for8 us to believe that it's not so specific as to9 below the line of competitiveness, my comments.

10 MS. RODRIGUEZ: I too commend the11 county, especially for safeguards when it12 pertains to public dollars. I definitely13 remember back in 2002 putting programs together14 specifically for apprenticeship and allowing15 people into these programs that otherwise16 wouldn't be allowed to, so I do commend the17 county for doing something like this, and I thank18 you for being here today. Anybody else have any19 questions?20 MR. WITT: Thank you very much for21 your time.22 MR. BLEE: I make a motion to uphold23 the director's decision.24 MS. RODRIGUEZ: He was just25 presenting.

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1 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Members, what I can2 commit to you, I'll work with the Attorney3 General's office in the interim and that will4 allow a refined recommendation to come back5 before the board and action can be taken at a6 subsequent meeting.7 MR. WITT: Again, thank you very8 much for your time.9 MS. RODRIGUEZ: Motion to adjourn?

10 MR. CLOSE: So moved.11 MR. BLEE: Second.12 MS. RODRIGUEZ: All ayes?13 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.14 (Hearing Concluded at 12:56 p.m.)1516171819202122232425

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1 C E R T I F I C A T E23 I, LAUREN ETIER, a Certified Court4 Reporter, License No. XI 02211, and Notary Public5 of the State of New Jersey, that the foregoing is6 a true and accurate transcript of the testimony7 as taken stenographically by and before me at the8 time, place and on the date hereinbefore set9 forth.

10 I DO FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither a11 relative nor employee nor attorney nor council of12 any of the parties to this action, and that I am13 neither a relative nor employee of such attorney14 or council, and that I am not financially15 interested in the action.16171819202122 ________________________________23 Notary Public of the State of New Jersey24 My Commission Expires June 14, 201825 Dated: March 28, 2018


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bid6:18,208:15 76:1780:14

bidder 66:2366:24

bids80:4big30:3binding 24:21bit25:8 52:2072:4 75:883:3

Blee2:5 4:194:21 5:11,1210:5,7,22,2316:7,8 21:1421:15 23:1,230:22,2336:10,1137:1,2 43:1643:17 55:658:23 61:162:20 65:365:14,1583:22 84:11

blended 81:22bless 75:10board 1:5 3:94:5,15,175:14,21,218:4,23 15:13

16:15 18:1319:3,9,14,1721:21,2523:5 27:2528:11,2130:6 38:5,838:24 39:1342:14 43:2245:12 48:850:15,1751:24 54:758:9 62:2265:19 68:471:7 73:1879:22 84:584:13

board's 7:135:20

bodies 36:6body32:8 38:638:13 39:250:19 55:2

boiler 17:17bond4:14 11:611:16,1914:2 16:2417:5,6 18:1119:4 23:1331:6 79:8

bonds 11:1717:12,2318:15 19:579:5

Bonnie 11:7bonus 20:16books 12:17borough 3:7,1211:2,7,8,1011:15 31:3,731:8 32:2,732:21 33:20

borrow 26:2226:22

bothered 64:20BPU19:11,18brand 38:11

Braslow 5:165:19 6:3,67:2,8,9,117:16,18 9:39:23 11:1

bridge 3:79:23 11:3

Bridgeton31:12

briefly 44:1266:11 68:22

bring 6:2525:13,2263:5,7

brings 16:14Broad 1:10Brock 5:25,259:14,19,22

brought 9:246:5 48:1463:10,1168:2 81:15

budget 14:2415:6 33:1133:11,15,16

build 24:23building 26:1974:6

built 25:4bulk34:2541:13,20

bulletin 67:10business 16:2068:12 72:1,276:2 78:9,1078:13

buy69:3

CC3:14 85:1,1Cahill 23:1023:10 25:1025:17,2126:3 28:1329:13

calculations


19:20Caldwell 3:916:15

Caldwell-West3:9 16:15

calibrated82:13

call4:22 10:815:19 21:122:13 29:14

called 17:518:17 58:21

cancel 80:17capacity 12:19capital 6:22carefully82:13

case6:6 8:1944:14,2167:15

cases 8:5cash20:935:13

caused 11:21CC56:21CENTER 1:21certain 8:1138:6 58:161:5 62:1369:10

certainly 33:533:6 40:2460:15,1675:21 78:5

certification44:4 57:2368:13 69:980:11

certificat...78:15

Certified 1:2085:3

certify 77:1780:9 85:10

Cerullo 23:21chair 59:5,9

65:24 76:22chairman 2:35:21 44:1

Chairwoman52:16

challenges26:11

challenging12:5

chambers 58:2change 38:1450:16 52:25

changing 38:1838:18 39:9

characterized38:25

charged 12:4,6charges 46:1,646:6 47:1,2148:21 60:4,961:6,11,1663:5,20

check 71:15,1679:13,15,1780:3

checkbook 71:4checklist78:25

chief 5:2111:8

choose 32:2172:10

chose 72:25circumstances38:18 41:2046:19

city3:8,1316:13 37:837:12 40:2541:23,2450:13 64:1564:17,22,24

civil 56:3,756:13,1763:4

claim 79:7

claims 52:2class 74:15clean 40:24cleaner 20:3clear 26:1453:8,17 54:2

client 59:1164:6

Clinton 12:2,3Close 2:9 5:55:6 10:6,810:16,1715:17,1816:1,2 20:2420:25 21:8,922:20,2129:11 30:730:16,1736:20,2143:10,1156:3,6,14,1757:20 65:8,978:18 79:384:10

cogeneration18:18

Cole37:11colleagues 8:98:23 10:416:17 19:1622:8 35:1850:12

collector44:10,1845:20,2147:5,13

collectors46:18

come7:21 8:2113:22,2219:9,1334:11 43:2348:8 58:2461:3 64:1184:4

comes 6:18

20:15 75:2176:8,18 77:877:8

comfortable42:10

comforted19:19

coming 7:912:17 18:1424:9 78:2278:23

Commencing1:13

commend 82:682:11 83:1083:16

comment 71:2581:18

comments 78:378:4,5 83:9

commission28:16 85:24

commissioners8:25 28:4,7

commit 84:2community 1:21:9 56:4

company 69:779:13

competency72:24

competently68:25

competitive8:19

competitiv...83:9

complaint44:15

complex 18:2083:6

complicated33:4

complimented42:4

comply 51:3


components61:5

comprehensive83:4,7

comptroller66:13 67:4

comptroller's41:4

concern 39:24concerned28:14 32:1780:24

concerns 73:1074:23

concessions40:12

Concluded84:14

concur 59:4concurs 4:17conduct 62:18confirm 52:18conform 4:13confused 80:7connection11:16

consent 4:4,16consequence61:20

conservation17:10,11

conservative19:21 20:1020:18

consider 76:14considered83:2

consolidate25:12

constitute28:16

constructing4:8

construction9:24 68:2370:15

contemplated38:3 52:14

content 47:16contested44:21

context 8:3continue 49:1961:16 63:1964:14,16

continued31:22

continuing63:1

contract 6:1237:18,20,2338:3,9,1539:19 40:641:19,2542:13,1566:15 69:2270:10 76:1779:4 80:17

contracting37:20 41:1266:14 75:14

contractor71:9 80:4,21

contractors81:7

contracts32:18 66:2166:22 69:2470:2 75:1276:19 79:25

contractural32:14

Control 25:18controller41:10,1442:5

controller's42:2

controls 17:18controversial27:23

controversies

52:2convert 32:1converted32:20

cooling 18:21copy68:3,5corporate 1:2118:7

correct 7:117:16 33:740:2 61:973:16 75:3

corrected 9:49:11,1146:24

correction77:2

corrective41:17

corresponded66:4

cost7:9 13:1726:18 35:874:13

costs 12:11,1126:23 34:2235:5

council 85:1185:14

counsel 5:1711:6 16:1816:24 23:923:13 31:6,635:12 37:1245:11 48:2349:17 55:1260:7 63:2165:25

counts 34:20county 3:10,113:16 21:2122:1,3 23:623:16,2224:5,17,2424:25 25:1,626:8,15 27:7

27:8 28:665:25 66:966:18 67:567:16,17,2468:4,2269:15 70:670:24 71:2074:4,5 76:1476:17 79:2380:2 81:1681:16,1882:6,1183:11,17

county's 27:666:14

couple 13:827:17 30:341:11,12

course 9:746:10 48:1951:4 71:10

Court 1:2053:7 85:3

courtesy 68:6courtroom 71:6covered 29:1735:18

craft 69:5,969:12 70:1780:5,10,2581:14,19,2182:1

crafted 81:20credit 11:1912:22 14:524:18,2464:21 83:5

CREST 1:21critical 19:8cross 62:6Cunningham 2:33:4 4:1,214:24,25 5:146:3,24 7:127:17 9:12,169:20,25 10:7


10:10,1111:2 13:7,1213:25 14:714:16,2015:2,6,8,1215:16,18,2015:21 16:1219:7 20:1920:22,2521:2,3,1922:12,14,1523:5 25:7,1425:25 26:1026:17,2527:20 28:828:20 29:1429:24 30:5,930:10,1131:2,13 33:133:8,17,2334:1,4 35:135:6,10,1235:16 36:836:11,13,1436:15 37:739:5,22 40:341:3 42:1242:18,2543:4,5,2148:9 84:1

Cunningham's68:9

curious 14:1128:22 39:2339:24 40:3

current 37:1839:5,19

currently 7:1025:25 37:2039:18 41:1641:23

curve 41:21custom 6:11customers 42:8Cuva23:21

DD3:1DAG2:14Daniel 6:1date1:1235:19 85:8

Dated 85:25day55:2356:10 61:1963:18 70:14

days39:1246:3,24 47:347:10 48:249:1,2250:12,13,2051:21 52:1453:24 54:554:18 55:1556:15,1660:6,18,2561:19 62:362:12 63:23

deal36:243:22 58:1658:20

deals 66:10dealt 9:763:21

debt7:1411:21,2212:15,17,1913:10,13,2114:8,9,1717:12 24:1225:2 27:1032:14

decide 32:2147:21

decided 61:1361:15 63:19

decides 79:22decision 43:2343:23 44:745:1,3,6,8,951:17 53:155:7 66:7

68:9 75:2176:7 83:23

decisions61:10 66:9

declined 51:5DeCotiis 37:11deference58:17,22

deferred 16:14definitely42:24 83:12

definition80:24 81:1981:20,21,22

definitions82:2

demotion 46:2347:12

denied 53:15Dennis 14:4DEP41:24Department 1:21:9 25:17,23

depositions12:9

Deputy 2:16DeSanto 14:4DESCRIPTION3:20

designating31:18

designed 69:1determination45:15,2348:6,8 50:1751:7,9 57:758:21

determinat...58:18 62:25

determine45:14

determined58:19

difference27:16 33:1334:9

different 8:317:22 24:766:8

difficult 83:7difficulty83:3

direct 69:15directed 7:1983:1

directing 76:1director 5:2023:11,1626:6 37:9,1444:15 45:4,745:15 46:1946:25 48:5,951:10,1352:17 53:2354:23 65:1966:4,8 68:568:8 71:2273:21,2475:15 78:281:15

director's43:23 44:645:23 51:7,953:1 83:23

DiRocco 2:45:3,4 10:1410:15 15:2415:25 21:6,722:18,1930:14,1536:18,1943:8,9 51:2352:8 54:2064:13 65:1,665:7 74:2575:5,16,2076:4,6 82:6

disagree 50:19disagreed61:15 68:16

disagreements47:15


disappointing8:18

disciplinary63:3 64:8

discipline45:24 46:2,846:14,16,2247:2,9,2048:1,22 49:349:10,2050:5 51:2051:22 55:2256:12 61:761:14,1762:2 63:1563:21

disciplined60:10

disclosure 9:1discounted72:21

discovery38:23

discuss 19:1841:5 67:11

discussed 41:8discussion27:15 58:6,859:9

discussions24:9

disk57:2458:5,7,23

dismiss 61:5dispatches52:2

displaced 9:1810:1

disposed 7:13disposing 6:14dispute 52:15dissolve 31:1635:21

district 3:65:15,22 6:46:8,14,23

7:2,21,258:2 9:1316:21,23,2517:4 18:14

district's20:4

districts17:15

diversified24:5

division 25:1843:24 44:5,744:15 53:775:2 77:9

DLGS66:5,867:7,21,2368:2,6 71:2273:13 74:2175:15 77:2381:15

docked 50:2051:21

document 57:457:5,10,1257:14,1658:25 82:1883:6

doing 24:1447:14,2450:1 59:2562:1,1663:15 70:670:21 71:1071:14,1873:3 74:377:17 83:17

dollar 11:1613:17 24:3

dollars 13:1017:6 19:2227:14,1835:8 67:2069:2 74:1574:18 76:2076:21 77:4,577:10 78:20

83:12dome29:20,21DOMINICK 2:4dot12:25 62:6doubt 52:1370:9

DPW24:5drafted 57:1357:15 66:367:25 82:13

drafting 83:6driveway 29:10drop24:1227:12,13

dropped 20:15dropping 27:10due18:6 58:21

EE2:12,12 3:13:19,23,2385:1,1

earlier 66:1278:19

earnest 82:11easier 72:4East3:8 16:13Eastampton 3:65:15 7:198:24 9:13,17

ecological20:1

economically38:15

Ed11:5 14:2023:12 31:433:4

edification28:24

Education 3:916:15

effect 14:137:21 69:3

effective35:19,20,2436:1

efficient18:21

effort 54:12efforts 51:2eight 13:17eighth 15:9,11EIT22:6either 27:679:21

elections 8:2electricians69:14 81:1

Elisher 6:2,2emergent 53:1354:14

EMMA2:16employee 59:2580:4,16,1980:25 85:1185:13

employees32:16 69:970:5

enacted 17:8ended 57:25endemic 8:1energy 17:7,1017:11,1818:20,2219:19 20:4,455:20

enhance 61:12Entertain 30:6entire 37:23entities 39:1282:9

entitled 40:16entity 31:1932:8 55:2

entrance 29:10environmental26:11 34:18

EO82:12equal 25:2equipment 7:1371:17 78:25


79:14,16,19ESIP16:16ESIPs 19:9,1319:21

especially83:11

essence 54:1563:2

essentially31:17 52:19

establish 48:5established32:10 82:2

ethics 8:4,11ETIER 85:3everybody 70:270:11,1674:3

exact 73:4exactly 29:767:11,2373:23 76:477:11 79:281:13

example 74:6exceed 19:4exceeding 6:10excellent79:12

exceptions45:5

executive 2:152:16 23:1566:2,3,10,1969:23 75:178:9 82:15

exercise 39:25Exhibit 13:8EXHIBITS 3:21exist 32:18existence31:22

existing 31:1633:9

expanded 55:20expansion

21:24expect 13:2514:21

expected 14:626:18

expenditures33:12 34:6

expenses 12:1333:9,19,21

experience20:13 39:169:11 72:972:16,2577:18 81:6

experiencing38:19

expires 37:2539:6 85:24

explore 26:16extend 38:9extension11:19 12:2238:2 39:1539:19 40:1040:10

extensions42:13

extensive 61:5extent 32:21eyes14:10

FF85:1facility 18:2225:16 26:1529:18,1942:7

fact19:1939:13 46:1347:4,1148:21,2549:20,2355:16 59:1961:6 62:2164:20 67:1178:16

facts 61:8factual 58:17failed 8:2513:18 19:23

fair18:22fairly 19:1124:1,4

faith 24:18,24fall71:1982:5

familiar 30:2far68:1580:11

farmers 26:9favor 7:24federal 67:181:21

feds82:3fee25:3feel9:7 18:10fees32:334:14 36:3

feet29:21Ferraioli23:21

file9:1,955:23 56:1158:3

filed 44:1445:11 56:6,856:17,1961:4

final 44:745:8 51:1653:5,25 55:7

finally 17:526:14,16

finance 1:58:4 13:2017:10,20,2118:1,6,9,1919:5 23:1127:25 37:1445:12 67:1077:24

financed 7:5

17:9 28:12financial 9:111:8 23:1823:18

financially13:4 85:14

financing 6:218:20 17:1318:8,25 24:426:18

find73:1880:12

finding 63:14findings 22:147:13,2450:1 59:2462:1,16

finishing39:14

fire3:6 5:155:22 6:4,8,96:14,23 7:218:2,25 9:13

firm37:10firms 78:23first 15:8,1040:9 48:449:3 50:668:8 70:2571:11 73:14

FitzPatrick37:11

five17:6 19:427:14 28:1940:11 46:2447:3 56:1556:16

Fleming 11:713:11,1414:23 15:4,715:10

flow20:10Folk37:1340:20 41:2

folks 82:23follow 62:20


80:1followed 40:1056:21

forced 12:15forcible 24:21foregoing 85:5forget 77:25form52:22FORMAL 3:25formally 22:5former 25:11forms 78:1779:5

forth 7:2147:18 50:854:25 85:9

forward 20:124:1 31:1246:13 48:2160:9 62:1078:23

forwarded 45:4found 67:7,10four27:1440:10,1372:13,14

Fox23:15,1528:5,10 29:129:4

FRANCIS 2:5frankly 19:1754:4 61:863:13

FREE1:24Freeholder28:11

Freeholders68:5

front 19:9,1421:20,2533:24 34:2443:22 46:1181:10,13

full24:18,2441:14

full-time

72:22fund17:735:14

funding 59:2059:22

funds 7:1050:3,2475:25

funny 8:8further 7:1413:13 78:585:10

Ggallery 43:25Gary's 29:9gavel 44:1general 8:211:22 13:2218:10 37:1170:14 78:11

General's 84:3gentlemen 5:16getting 35:254:13 74:1277:20 78:2081:9

Giblin 37:11gigantic 29:17give6:7 52:1255:9,1164:21 83:5

given 42:7gives 18:1958:17

giving 49:853:18 59:17

gladly 79:23Gloucester3:10 21:21

go6:18 17:1631:20 32:434:17 41:2446:13 48:2053:2,3,655:10 58:2

60:9 62:1071:11 82:4

goal69:19goes68:1670:23 76:8

going 7:13 8:713:21 14:1,920:3 24:1025:11,1526:1 27:829:22,2335:19 39:1044:12 47:2049:7 51:453:19 59:2160:11 63:463:14 64:964:10,1069:10 70:2571:4,5,11,1571:16,1974:14,2575:13 78:178:23 79:780:2,10,1380:18 81:25

GOLDEN 1:21Goldman 16:24good4:1 5:1914:5 16:1617:3 21:1933:2 37:945:16 65:2265:23 74:278:3,16 82:4

Gorab 16:19,2317:3 20:721:18

governing 32:836:6

government8:10 43:2444:5,16 67:167:1 77:981:21

grab71:11

grant 12:22,2512:25 32:2333:1,1334:12,14,1734:19,20

granted 39:15grants 4:1534:15

great 75:1176:12,1382:10

group 23:725:5

grunt 70:15guarantee 22:222:4 24:18

guess 8:2317:14 19:2527:9 52:562:20 73:2580:23 81:10

guy1:19 66:5guys64:15,21

HH3:19half7:9 8:2069:2 78:19

hand35:13handed 48:752:18

handled 52:4happen 53:160:13

happened 60:1267:16

happy 9:968:20 74:2174:22

hard27:7HDSRF 34:19hear4:22 5:1523:6 54:2354:24,2558:11,23

heard 58:14


59:5hearing 15:1338:20 43:144:20 57:2561:2,1984:14

hearings 47:10heat18:21heated 12:8Heather 23:17held2:1 38:1938:20

hereinbefore85:8

hey63:22High3:7 11:3higher 34:8Highland 3:1231:3,6,15,16

highlights 7:6hire72:7 73:2hiring 78:21Holly 9:15honestly 8:13hook70:24hope36:4hour70:16,18hours 72:15,1872:23

house 71:8,19Hudak 44:3,4Hudson 3:1666:1,14,1867:4 74:480:2 81:16

hundred 27:17hundreds 19:22

IID3:20idea74:2,3identified28:2 41:6,11

identify 32:11IDIDA 2:6immediate 9:8

immediately6:17 35:24

impact 14:6,1227:5

implement 40:9impose 47:2050:6

imposed 45:2446:3,9,1447:25 48:2349:6,10,2050:3 53:2254:19 56:1160:3,20 62:263:14

imposing 49:2improvement3:10,1111:18 21:2223:6,16,1923:22 24:224:19,22,2525:3

improvements17:17 18:219:2 26:19

in-kind 35:8inaccurate46:21

inch4:8include 20:1835:19 51:2058:8

included 11:2220:16 46:7

including18:24 54:2260:10 77:3

incorporated47:1 61:17

incorporating61:7

increase 14:25incremental27:16

incurred 12:11

indicated 38:946:5

indicating59:9

individual78:23

indulgence22:8

infer 61:20information64:11

Infrastruc...40:8

inherent 49:1250:2 53:2460:6 62:263:25

inherently49:9 60:2462:17

initial 37:2444:7 45:1,345:6,9 47:8

initially48:25

input 18:1038:21

instances 4:15insurance 79:6interest 18:1278:21

interested18:8 85:15

interesting9:5

interim 84:3internally32:7

interpreta...64:3,6

introduce 11:416:17 23:8

introduced5:17 15:2

introducing15:4

investment40:8

invoice 34:16involved 8:512:1 46:259:10 60:23

involves 44:6involving11:20

ironic 55:14irony 8:9Irvington 3:1544:10 45:2150:14

issue 6:20 9:812:20 13:1218:15 19:548:17 50:1150:12

issued 22:441:12 45:1,856:8

issues 22:626:13 39:941:6,12,1341:18 42:958:14

ITEM3:2items 42:552:3

JJ1:19 2:3January 45:845:11

Jason 6:2JCMUA 37:14,1837:21,2238:16 39:1039:21 42:4

Jersey 1:1,111:23 3:1322:5 37:7,1237:19 66:172:12 81:1,285:5,23


job10:2 40:1469:16 70:970:19 71:1872:14,1573:4 74:879:1,14 80:480:12

jobs78:1981:3 82:9

John37:13Jover 31:733:14,18,2534:3,13 35:335:9,11 36:437:6

judge 44:846:11 47:650:9 58:163:19

June85:24

Kkeep32:6 51:8keeping 32:4keeps 56:25kick69:3,23kind17:1640:12 69:2072:14 75:1978:13

kindly 23:7knew71:9know8:9,229:16 12:1312:19 14:717:8 18:1819:17 26:1727:6 29:2,532:2 33:1334:7 39:8,1240:24 41:649:14 55:1457:21 58:2462:4,6 64:1764:22 68:1870:21 71:14

74:11,1177:8,17,2582:19

Kurt5:25

LL2:12laborer 70:1470:15

laid74:1Lambe 16:20lament 7:22landfill 21:24landscaping69:23

language 51:1168:14

large 29:4,1669:1 70:1,1172:2 74:5

larger 21:2478:10

LAUREN 85:3law4:14 17:1917:21 24:1924:25 37:1044:8,20 63:475:12 79:25

laws38:18lawsuit 71:5lawyer 70:25lawyers 32:22lease 17:23,2518:2 24:1724:18,23,2425:2 26:2

leases 18:4leasing 26:1leave 71:18legal 34:2235:7 50:7

legally 48:24legislation17:9

lengthy 83:4Lester 63:22

let's 62:1082:2

letter 39:2067:21

level 72:24,24LFB45:13liabilities35:14

license 68:1285:4

licensed 80:2581:1,4

lies50:1352:22

light 2:7 5:1310:24,2515:14,1616:9,1021:16,1723:3,4 28:1430:24,2536:12,1337:3,4 42:643:18,1948:21 55:1765:16,1771:5 73:8,1573:21 80:21

lighting 17:1718:23

Likewise 70:10limited 31:20line59:20,2276:9 83:9

lingering52:11

Liquor 29:9Lisa16:23list8:2556:22

listed 4:4,1619:2

listened 58:7litigation12:2,5 46:10

little 6:25

18:5 25:832:11 52:2064:20 67:1072:4 75:880:7,2482:24 83:3,7

Litzebauer23:17,1726:20 28:328:18

lived 9:17,25loan4:7local 1:5 4:148:4,10 17:927:25 43:2444:5,1645:12 67:1075:12 77:977:24 79:24

location 1:925:13

long17:1018:3

longer 11:2327:2

look33:10,1442:5 67:22

looked 19:1620:6 27:1533:21

looking 14:2427:24 72:17

looks 8:4 13:933:9

loss46:3lot8:4low67:20lower 18:1234:5 51:1953:19 56:167:18

lowering 18:6Lucas 45:19luck21:20Lyons 16:21


MMadam 76:22main4:9major 46:2281:6

making 11:1559:23 66:1768:23

manager 44:4mandatory68:14

manholes 29:17Mapp2:8 5:1,210:12,1315:22,2321:4,5 22:1022:16,1730:8,12,1336:16,1743:2,6,756:24 57:657:17 59:1,365:4,5

March 1:1215:3 46:385:25

MARKED 3:21market 18:524:20 26:9

Mary16:21Mary's 18:10matter 4:1611:20 21:2021:25 44:644:18 45:2546:7 47:9,2247:22 48:2049:4,5,12,2551:5,17,1853:23 54:954:10 59:2460:22 61:1661:18,21,2263:2,3,566:2,12

matters 43:2246:13

maturity 4:64:13 24:927:2,4

Mayor 57:6McManimon 11:411:5,6,1413:15 14:314:13,1916:11 23:1223:12,13,2525:19 26:2129:25 31:4,531:5,11,1533:7 35:1535:21 37:5

MCNAMARA 2:154:24 5:1,3,55:7,9,11,1310:10,12,1410:16,18,2010:22,2415:20,22,2416:1,3,5,7,921:2,4,6,821:10,12,1421:16 22:1422:16,18,2022:22,2423:1,3 30:1030:12,14,1630:18,20,2230:24 36:1436:16,18,2036:22,2437:1,3 43:443:6,8,10,1243:14,16,1857:21 65:4,665:8,10,1265:14,16

mean50:1182:10

means 52:1264:4

measures 17:1017:12 25:2025:21 82:20

mechanics25:23

mediations12:10

meet76:16meeting 4:224:10 28:6,739:20 44:264:12 84:6

meetings 12:1035:4

MELANIE 2:14member 71:7members 28:1528:19 58:1084:1,13

memorandum56:22

memorializing45:2

mention 29:1959:19

Mercer 67:1667:16,2474:4 81:1581:18

met66:15Metering 40:8meters 41:1method 12:5Michael 65:25Mike11:9million 13:1013:17 17:619:5 24:326:20,2327:14 69:278:20

minimum 66:1667:2 68:1069:3,10 70:370:8,13,1872:24,24

74:9 78:14minor 42:945:24 46:2,846:16 47:2,947:20 48:148:22 50:451:20 55:2256:11 61:1763:3,21

missile 29:1629:17

mistaken 46:1648:24

Mm-mm 13:1135:11

modernizes38:16

modification45:22 54:1658:19

modify 45:1551:6 52:2155:1

moment 58:10money 25:150:20 60:1162:17,1864:7

monies 6:22,22month 38:139:6,1958:25

monthly 35:4months 54:8morning 4:15:19 16:1617:3 37:945:16

Mosquito 25:18motion 4:17,1910:5,8 20:2120:23 22:822:12 30:636:10 43:146:11 55:961:5 65:1,2


83:22 84:9motor 18:21Mount 9:14move4:3 15:1422:10 43:2

moved 30:738:22 84:10

moving 20:1MUA37:8multiple 29:3municipal 3:1316:22 37:12

municipality14:10,17

municipali...14:2

NN2:12 3:1N.J.S.A 45:13name16:2337:10 44:365:24

nature 61:1169:14

near9:21nearly 37:23necessarily49:16 50:14

necessary26:24

need5:1811:10,1812:24 13:116:18 23:926:22 32:562:6 75:6,975:14,2276:10

needed 63:24needing 8:25needs 20:448:3

negotiate 38:240:19

negotiated

19:6neither 85:1085:13

never 49:2252:5 60:1271:5

new1:1,11,236:18 22:526:14,1929:20 37:1938:11 58:566:1 72:1281:1,2 85:585:23

Newton 3:5 4:5Nice10:2Nicole 23:1527:7,20

Nike25:1129:15,1530:3

nine40:15,1882:15,16,1882:23

NJIB13:20no's28:2non13:10 14:849:8 51:19

Non-Confor...4:6

Norcross 23:25North 29:9Notary 85:4,23note8:3noted 67:4notes 11:17noticed 19:8notified 39:25notwithsta...17:19

November 13:1944:22 45:2

number 5:159:13 25:1233:18 42:866:2

numbers 34:1034:24

NW23:18

OO2:12O'Grady 6:1,1OAL58:3objections45:6

obligation18:10 24:21

obligations32:13,15

obvious 49:1570:23

obviously 49:750:19,2255:12,2268:19 72:274:10,13

occur 8:7occurring 9:24offered 40:13office 44:1966:13,1781:8 84:3

Officer 11:8officials64:17

officiated62:3

oh49:20okay34:166:18 72:777:1

old26:8once26:1435:21,22,2540:1 47:2256:8 71:1876:15

ones50:23ongoing 34:21open4:2 71:4Opening 3:3

operates 4:12operating 42:8operational26:7

operations25:12

operator 38:17opinion 67:2168:17 78:2

opportunity63:8

opposed 7:248:6 14:1419:23 24:1134:6

OPRA67:21option 17:2518:1,11

options 40:1oral54:24Orange 3:816:13

order 12:2061:12 66:2,366:10,19,2369:23 75:178:9 82:16

ordinance11:16,1912:21 13:3,615:9 17:5,619:4 35:2235:23,2567:17 81:18

original 38:438:4

originally52:23

OSHA70:4,1670:18 74:1374:13,14,16

outcome 60:14Outdoor 29:25outside 9:1439:14

outstanding


14:16 32:2334:16

overall 42:542:10

PP2:12p.m84:14packages 8:15page3:2,2082:18

pages 82:15,1682:24

paid17:1225:1 34:1752:15 53:1554:11 64:7

papers 68:19Pappas 11:9Paratransit25:24

Park3:12 31:331:6,15,16

PARKIN 2:15part8:2121:24 53:956:24 58:1158:19 59:660:19 61:3

participating60:1

participation7:22 53:11

particular8:19 40:2248:1 59:2071:25 76:276:18

particularly7:20 20:1040:7 49:1662:7 63:1,18

parties 38:144:22 57:357:17 58:285:12

partner 78:10party 64:21party's 45:3,7Passaic 3:1123:6,16

passed 67:1768:4

Pat4:23PATRICIA 2:15Patterson 26:8pay7:4 18:2420:11 46:353:12,1554:14 55:1560:2

payable 14:13paying 53:19payment 4:1012:24 13:1,227:16

payments 25:2pedal 39:11Pennsylvania26:8

people 8:611:5 24:1569:12,14,1569:15 70:1970:20 71:1,271:9 72:873:2,3 74:774:8 77:1778:12,20,2179:16 83:15

percent 12:1625:4

perform 79:1performance20:11,11,12

performed38:17 68:2468:25

performing54:10

period 7:618:16

permitted 8:7person 42:1442:23 62:866:3,4 69:1770:8 71:1272:21

perspective55:25 64:15

pertains 83:12Phil23:2524:3

Phillips 45:1645:19,1948:10,16,1950:18,2251:1,10,1351:16 52:753:4 55:1155:19 56:556:10,16,1956:25 57:557:13,1859:4,8,1461:4 62:2363:6,10 64:464:25 65:18

Phoenix 16:21piece 26:7,16pieces 7:13place 24:639:21 44:1449:3 50:651:21 66:1966:25 67:369:24 79:985:8

placed 44:25plan36:241:17 81:8

planner 34:23plans 13:12play76:18plays 77:23,24please 4:229:9 10:915:19 21:1

22:13 50:1275:10

pleased 7:18plenary 44:20plumber 81:5Plumbers 80:25Plus79:3pocket 60:19point 7:1912:8,2313:15 20:753:8 55:2058:1 59:2362:5 70:573:9 76:1376:22 78:1779:12 80:281:11,14

pointed 42:1,6points 33:335:17 48:1368:1 82:14

policies 79:8policy 75:2376:7

pooh-pooh55:15

poor8:1popped 27:21portion 11:2112:14

posed 59:11POSHA 70:4,4position 8:1232:6 44:1846:15,2047:12,1949:7,8,1450:2 51:1953:18,1956:1,2 57:959:17,18,2061:25

positions 54:7positive 22:1possible 14:25


posted 41:15potential 80:3potentially34:11,23

pounding 53:8power 18:25practical 13:5practices66:14

pre-qualif...67:8 68:773:13,1875:2 76:1577:21,2279:21,23

pre-qualif...75:13

preparation54:9

prepare 41:1742:15

prepares 8:24present 28:728:16 45:1281:8

presented 51:262:21,22,23

presenting83:25

presses 54:5pressure 39:11presume 78:19presuming 79:4Pretty 29:4prevail 60:21prevailed60:14,15,21

previous 61:1363:15,1867:5,15

previously 4:235:13 46:946:16 47:2548:22 49:1850:3 53:2160:3,10 63:2

63:20,25price 40:22primarily17:14,25

principal55:21

principals33:6

prior 42:1246:14 49:1049:20 51:2261:7,17 62:1

private 24:2237:19

probably 13:1719:25 33:24

problem 54:2155:3 63:2280:14

problematic76:11

problems 61:2161:22

procedural44:13

procedurally52:25

procedure79:24

procedures56:21

proceeded 47:949:4

proceeding13:20 32:2447:23 48:2449:19

proceedings53:16 62:563:19

proceeds 7:3process 7:237:23 9:1138:20,2356:13

procured 37:21

produce 18:1218:20,22

produces 18:20professional32:18 34:1434:22 36:3

program 4:1211:18 16:1617:7 66:2567:13 68:1769:6,8 72:372:7,8,16,1977:16 78:11

programs 72:1172:13 77:1283:13,15

project 19:621:20,2422:4 24:5,2325:8 27:5,2266:24 69:469:21 70:270:15

projected19:24

projections19:20 20:18

projects 17:2236:5 68:2469:2 70:7,1274:6

proof 57:3proper 79:1480:20

properly 69:1869:21 71:279:19 82:8

property 24:2326:16

proposed 6:2120:9 24:4

proposing18:15

proposition49:2 50:8

protection

81:3protections79:9

provide 42:2368:12,13

provided 40:2441:14

provides 35:2558:24 79:5

providing 79:4provisions75:2

prudence 40:4prudent 13:5public 4:27:22 19:1737:19 38:5,838:20,20,2138:24 39:1366:21 69:2170:4 74:5,1774:18 75:1275:25 76:676:20,2177:4,5,1079:25 81:683:12 85:485:23

pulled 13:8pulling 20:8pumper 6:11,156:16

punishment50:4 61:1261:13

purchase 6:918:25 41:13

purged 48:249:11

pursuant 45:13pursue 47:21put24:6 39:1140:18 47:1850:8 54:2556:1 58:1172:5 77:15


78:13 81:1882:2

putting 13:222:3 29:2041:21 74:683:13

Qqualificat...80:3

qualified 71:174:7

quarterly42:16

question 9:1228:15 30:433:2,8 34:1559:1,11 61:163:7 75:1276:13

questions 10:210:3 13:815:12 20:2024:16 25:528:20 30:532:25 35:1836:8 38:2439:1,2 42:2552:11 68:2071:3,21,2273:7 74:2083:19

quick 6:718:24

quickly 36:5quite 10:154:4 61:863:13

quorum 28:17quote 24:3

RR2:12 3:2385:1

Rahway 42:22raised 71:23

74:21raises 28:14raising 12:16rate14:2518:7,12 27:974:14

rates 8:1812:4,6,1613:23

rating 14:2,514:10 27:6

razor 19:11reach 19:2355:12

reached 44:23reaction 9:8read27:1reading 8:1315:8,11

realize 33:23really 7:6,1827:7 31:2140:5 52:1754:16,1771:6 73:5,876:10

reason 11:2527:4,9 28:931:22 70:22

rebate 20:1120:14

rebates 20:9recall 26:11receive 20:1241:9

received 6:209:6 20:1738:21 40:2145:5

recognize77:23,24

recommenda...84:4

record 23:833:3 41:644:25 46:5

48:25 49:1753:9 58:1559:10,1660:8,22 61:363:12 64:19

recording57:25 58:6

records 57:23recourse 80:15recruit 54:12recuse 43:25recycling29:11

redevelopment31:17,19,1931:23,24

redo74:22reduced 52:554:1 57:2

reduction 49:649:13 50:251:19 53:1759:17 61:2562:16

reference 57:2references71:16

referendum13:19 17:20

referring 57:1refile 61:11refined 84:4reflection34:12

reflects 24:8refunding 17:6regard 76:2276:23 81:1682:16

regarding 12:4regardless27:2

registered7:25

rehashed 49:16related 7:21

20:12,13relates 4:7relating 16:16relationship42:3

relative 85:1185:13

relatively31:11 42:9

relied 49:2449:24

reluctant52:21

rely62:13remaining 6:227:5 51:21,22

Remarks 3:3remember 74:1683:13

remind 25:15remiss 41:4removal 44:1746:23 57:8,960:16

removed 49:1160:1 62:3

RENZI 1:19replace 80:19replacement17:17,1818:23

report 34:1041:5,10,1041:10,1642:2

reported 35:7Reporter 85:4REPORTERS 1:20reports 34:242:16

represent45:20

representa...46:21 47:749:21,23,25

representa...


66:17representing54:7 62:8,9

reprimand 47:4reprimands47:3

request 11:1516:14 67:21

requested 4:1458:2,22

requesting 4:661:9

REQUESTS 3:25require 69:569:25 70:1274:11 80:1681:4

required 4:1070:3,1773:20,22,24

requirement38:7 67:6,1268:11 73:1981:7

requirements39:4 66:2067:18 74:975:9 82:1882:21,24

requires 49:960:24 62:1764:8 69:5,1673:13

requiring 76:7rescue 6:15research 67:10reserves 26:24residents40:25

resolution27:24 51:1751:18 54:155:24 61:2061:23,24

resolve 59:2461:18 73:9

resolved 47:2347:23 52:354:18

resources78:24

respect 41:1145:25 46:2247:2 61:2161:23

respectfully50:18

response 8:1741:7,14,1542:11

responsibi...31:18

responsibi...32:1,12,1532:24 46:25

responsible68:23

rest35:1764:11

restrict 46:12resubmit 38:10resulted 12:412:11

retire 7:14return 14:2149:1 50:3,2460:11,25

returned 48:353:25 54:1962:4,1963:17

revenues 12:12reverse 45:14review 8:2239:14 41:10

reviewed 58:1859:6 67:7

reviewing39:12 66:13

revisit 58:3revolves 37:18Rich25:7

Richard 23:10rid6:16right 4:3 9:229:24 11:7,916:19 27:1128:12 29:829:10 35:1045:22 50:2150:25 56:1458:15 59:1371:10,1774:15 77:677:14,1980:22

road11:1826:5

Roads 25:17robbing 55:18Rodriguez 2:65:9,10 10:2010:21 16:5,620:21,2221:12,1322:24,2528:11 29:630:20,2136:24,2543:3,14,1544:1 48:4,1148:18 50:1050:21,2551:8,12,1555:4 57:1057:15,1958:13 59:259:13 63:664:2,9,2365:12,13,2273:6 76:3,576:20,2477:2,7,1983:10,2484:9,12

role77:23,24Roll4:22 10:815:18 21:1

22:13room54:23roster 8:24Route 1:2229:9

run32:8 33:20running 26:15Ryan37:10

SS2:12,12 3:193:23,23

safe40:2578:21

safeguards83:11

safely 68:2469:18 71:18

safety 67:270:3,8,1371:2 73:174:9,1778:14,1981:8,8

SALAY 2:16salt29:20,21sanction 60:20Sandy 40:23sat38:1satisfied40:20 59:1262:14,15

save17:1832:2

saved 7:3 20:3savings 17:717:11 19:1019:22,2426:2,4 35:235:7

saw25:14 48:767:22

saying 51:854:21,2272:5,7 75:675:8 76:15


says69:771:12 78:9

scale 69:270:1,11

Scerbo 37:9,1037:17 39:740:2,5 41:141:9 42:1742:21 43:20

schedule 4:74:13 24:1324:14 27:2,4

school 16:2116:23,2517:4,15

Scotland 11:623:13 31:5

second 4:18,2010:6,8 15:1720:24 22:822:11,1330:6,8 31:1336:12 43:1,365:3 73:2584:11

secondary59:20

seconds 20:25Secretary 2:152:16

secured 6:9see17:2340:19 55:1371:5

seeing 18:1381:17

seek43:1seeking 17:419:3 22:131:16 39:339:17 44:1745:22 50:16

seen6:4 8:1419:10 27:22

segue 33:2self-liqui...

4:11 11:2412:1,15,1813:16,2414:9,18,21

sell6:1713:18 26:5

selling 26:16send58:3sense 24:1427:18

sent8:15 58:567:20 68:3,5

separate 32:8service 7:1517:12 24:1325:2 27:1040:21 56:3,756:13,1863:4

services 24:732:13 34:1843:24 44:544:16 54:1177:9

set66:11 85:8settled 49:2560:21

settlement12:9 44:9,2345:10 47:1147:11,16,1848:12 52:1,552:8,11,1852:24 53:953:16 54:2555:4 57:1,758:4,6,859:7,10,1259:15,1660:22 63:963:12

settling 49:12seven 7:5 72:972:10,20

severe 26:10Sewage 12:3

sewer 11:21,2114:8

Shannon 44:3shape 52:21share 58:9shared 8:8sheet 27:24Sheriff's25:23

short 27:19showed 33:12side8:11 54:662:9

signed 31:2557:11,17

significant12:2 27:1328:15 75:2582:21

significantly33:11 34:5,8

similar 42:1367:6,1768:11

simple 47:1948:3 71:682:19,20,22

simply 22:649:6 69:1679:6

site28:2329:22 81:9

sites 26:429:17 30:3

sitting 55:23situation 52:160:15

situations42:1

six72:13size6:1928:23 29:1842:7

Ski29:10small 27:1272:1 78:9

solar 18:24solidify 24:5somebody 56:169:16 72:1780:12,19

Sorry 33:25sort55:21South 1:10space 26:1speak 9:10special 31:665:25

specialized69:13,2570:12,19

specific 68:2071:22 82:1782:25 83:8

specifically68:1 83:14

specificity82:16

speed 36:7spending 74:1875:25

spent 20:534:15

Spitzer 16:24square 29:21staff 9:1031:21 58:24

standard 39:176:16

start 18:13started 20:8state 1:1 6:1217:8 18:358:13 66:1367:1,6 72:1281:1,2 82:485:5,23

state's 81:22stated 27:3statement 59:5statements 9:1station 9:19


status 14:22statute 35:25statutes 33:5statutory 39:4steering 76:2377:4,12

stenograph...85:7

steps 41:1982:7,12

Steve 23:2024:11 27:7

storage 29:25storm 9:1810:1

straight 24:131:12

street 1:1071:12

stronger 8:14structured41:25

struggles20:14

struggling51:24,2552:16,2456:25 75:23

subject 45:2546:7,8,1947:22 53:2263:5,16

submission38:12 39:8

submit 42:1949:15 60:2462:16 64:2475:14 79:24

submitted38:12 42:1442:16 75:1,578:2

submitting41:22

subrogate 79:7subs78:12

subsequent46:4 53:684:6

Subsequently45:10

substance68:16

substantial38:14 46:2360:17

successful66:23

suddenly 76:9sued79:6Suez37:22,2239:17,2540:12,2141:11 42:4,8

sufficient35:13

suggested 51:3suing 70:25SUITE 1:22summarize44:13

summary 6:8Superior 53:7Superstorm40:23

supervising70:20

supply 37:1939:1

sure8:2242:17 48:1866:17 67:968:23 69:1769:20 70:1170:20 71:971:13,1675:18 76:1,278:7 79:1379:18 81:982:7,22

surety 79:5,8surplus 14:25

suspend 53:14suspended53:11 54:1360:2

suspension46:23 47:1447:25 48:249:5,1351:18 53:1053:20,2254:3,5,18,1955:24 56:759:18,2560:2,17,2361:2,2462:15 63:1363:16 64:1,364:4,5,6,8

sustain 45:14Sutphen 6:12sworn 5:18,2411:11,1316:18 17:223:9,2431:10 37:1645:18 65:21

synergy 40:5

TT2:12 3:19,2362:7 85:1,1

table 55:858:22 64:1065:2

TAD66:2,1967:25 68:1,469:3,6 74:22

TAD70 69:1take6:5 31:1739:21 42:2244:1

taken 62:4,584:5 85:7

takes 26:640:8

talk6:24 66:6

talked 8:1627:4 29:1878:18,25

talking 18:1328:5 33:1575:24 77:10

tasks 38:16tax18:7 27:844:10,1845:20,2146:18 47:447:13

taxpayers13:22 14:15

TED2:7TEL1:24tell9:4 25:8telling 8:679:15 82:19

tenure 6:526:12 46:1,646:6 47:1,2147:23 48:2149:8 53:1860:4,9 61:661:16 63:563:20

tenured 44:1845:21 47:449:8 51:2057:9 59:18

Teri31:732:25

term18:427:19 37:2437:24 41:25

termed 54:16terminate 36:3terminated32:19

terms 20:244:24 45:2,747:8 54:2458:9,16

testify 5:2411:13 17:2


23:24 24:1231:10 37:1645:18 57:2265:21

testimony 85:6thank 4:2211:1,2,1413:7 16:1116:12 20:1921:18,1930:9 31:1,231:4 37:5,637:7 43:2065:18,2483:17,2084:7

thereto 49:20thin19:11thing 8:2119:8 34:1139:22 40:2242:22 55:2164:14,1868:8 70:2573:14,2574:19

things 36:749:14 62:762:13 70:1075:19

think 6:2513:2,3 19:1227:1,3 32:533:4 35:1740:11 41:3,742:3,11,2147:10 49:2151:24 52:1652:20,22,2252:24 53:861:19 63:1364:5 68:270:23 72:2076:8 78:1879:21 82:1082:12

thinking 8:12thinner 19:12third 20:10,14Thomas 16:2044:8

thought 28:540:14,17,1746:20 67:5

thousand 27:18thousands19:23

three 14:1128:1,4,6

threshold66:16 67:1867:19

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1 state of new jersey 2 7 8 9 10 11 · 2018. 4. 12. · cunningham: thank you. borough 3of high...

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