>> i can hear you. so i am the vice president of practice ... · i just want to start us off...
TRANSCRIPT
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>> I can hear you.
>> Hi! How are you doing?
>> Fine.
>> I'm having a little issue over here so I'm just double checking.
We're going to go ahead and get started everyone. So I am going
to go ahead and do some introductions.
So I am the vice president of practice engagement in the
building here at the Iowa occupational therapy association.
I am also joined by Sabrina who is our vice President of
education and professional development who will be helping to
moderate this session tonight.
We have our panelist that are joining us. Thank you! We have
our AOTA board President, Wendy, as well as our board secretary,
Melissa.
And is part of our panelist from our practitioner side, as well
as Gregory and Tyra banks. So right now, I'm going to go over a
few of our housekeeping things.
I want to make sure we're allowing as much time as possible
for our participants to share for us to listen because we value
everyone's voice.
In order to do that, with hundreds of our practitioners and
students and therapists signing up for this listening session, we
will ask that you try as best as you can to keep your statements
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to one comment or question, as concise as you are able to, being
mindful of the amount of the individuals that may want to speak.
So if you decide to speak, we have at the bottom of your screen,
it should say participants next to the chat box. You will click
on your -- find your name and raise your hand. That way we can
select you to speak. Prior to that, we ask everyone to keep their
microphones muted and unmute if you are called on to share or ask
a question.
So for those who are participating on YouTube live, we also
invite you to share your comments and questions by using the chat
box within that platform so we can introduce you into the
conversation and include you in the discussion that is going on.
We have a moderator on YouTube live that will then send over
the questions and Sabrina will be sharing that with our panel and
with the group. And so this listening session is being recorded.
We will be sharing publicly following in session as well and
if you are an AOTA member, we invite you to continue the
conversation moving on over to commune OT so we can continue our
discussion.
And if you're not a member, we certainly encourage you to become
a member so we can continue to do this work together. And now this
is my pleasure to introduce our AOTA secretary, Melissa.
>> Hi! Hi, everybody! Thank you, Alisha. For those who don't
know me, my name is Melissa. I'm an occupational therapy
assistant and I serve as secretary on AOTA's board of directors.
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I just want to start us off tonight. Some of you may wonder why
I'm here. I'm here to represent the board and listen.
I'm here to learn, I'm here to take back all of your feedback,
your insight, your information. We have some work to do. We have
actual work to do and that's my duty here tonight is to listen.
You know, I want to share any experiences that I have that really
sparked my interest in doing better and changing the way things
are.
A few years back when I first started on the board of directors,
I had the pleasure of partnering with co tag and MDI. Probably
many of you are familiar with those groups.
One of the things that was troublesome for me, is I was labeled
as the diversity champion. Some of you remember when there was
a time that had the title label. That was really uncomfortable
for me.
It wasn't right. I can be a support, an ally, but I have not
had things taken from me or passed on for things due to my race,
therefore, I'm not appropriately called the champion for that. So
that was one of the things that sparked my interest in doing better
and bringing things back to the board for us to take actionable
change that we need to do.
So tonight, I'm joined by Wendy and other members of the board
as well as AOTA staff.
We are solidly committed to making changes around diversity,
equity and inclusion. These changes that we want to make are
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around all of our governance processes. All of our association
practices. You all know we started a task force. They met
earlier today.
So most of us are really excited to hear about how it went and
everything that came from that. We have been actively revising
our official documents. We have been hosting these listening
sessions but I really want you to hear from me, this is not the
end of our work.
We have another listening session next week and that focuses
around education and academics and again, that's not the end of
the work. It's the starting point for us.
We are partnering with OTD, post professional student who are
pulling all of the information from the chat and putting that into
theme and repurposing that for us to utilize for strategic action.
So again, Wendy and I are here tonight to listen. I'm really
honored tonight to be joined by three people. Two occupational
therapists, I can't see everyone. And also, Tyra and people who
may not know, Greg, an occupational therapy assistant. We have
Alisha who also introduced herself and Sabrina that she kindly
introduced as well.
So again, there's another listening session on the 23rd. I
want to let you know, we're not done. We're here to do work.
We're here to listen. I look forward to hearing all of you, taking
what you say and bring it back to action. Let me turn it over now.
>> Hi, thank you so much, Melissa. So yes, I'm an occupational
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therapist. I consider myself entry level because I have only been
practicing for two and a half years. For me, personally, as an
entry level therapist, I have experienced, you know, micro
aggressions, macro aggressions, gaslighting, and I am very excite
today be a part of this panel because I feel as, what I consider
myself, an entry level therapist and some of you on the call.
They may be entry level entry therapists as well. We are
already dealing with some of our own insecurities or you know,
we're just trying to learn and you know, really hone in on our
skills and develop that. It can be challenging trying to do that
while getting all of these external pressures, whether it's, you
know, especially in the form of discrimination or racism.
So I'm very excited to be on the panel and speaking from an
entry level kind of perspective. I hope that as we look tonight,
we are able to utilize this time and create a safe space where we
can come together and share some of our personal experiences.
With that, you know, there's always that possibility that some
of the discussions are topics that we bring up or that you might
share can be very sensitive and could potentially trigger some
emotional, psychological responses. Feel free to take the time
to take care of yourself and be mindful of what it is that you need
to help process some of this information.
And then for some of us, these stories are not just unique to
us and there are other people that may be experiencing some of what
we have experienced. I'm so excited to hear your stories as well
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because I think, other individuals might be able to relate as well.
I'm really just excited to kind of hear what everyone has to
share and it's what I hope to get to this, this evening, is just
kind of, here's some of the emerging themes and topics that are
potential areas of exploration and growth and to helping our
profession, moving towards becoming more -- I like to say,
culturally responsive. I had a professor who -- because
I -- culturally competent, like how?
How can you be culturally competent? So she would always tell
me, you know, culturally responsive. I love that. I take it with
me and that's what I want to share with others as well.
Trying to move our profession to become culturally responsive
and more culturally sensitive, I think, is one of my hopes for all
of this and getting this information from you guys.
So I'm really excited to be on this panel this evening and I
will turn it over to Gregory.
>> Thank you, my name is Greg. I am also what you call entry level.
I was licensed and started working in 2018 as a coder, a certified
occupational therapy assistant. What comes to mind to me is, we
have a lot of -- there's a lot of facets we can work on. I believe
that we can become more diverse. We can be culturally responsive
and inclusive.
We can do all of it at the same time as long as we actually
put something in practice and as long as question have these
conversations and these discussions on why and why it's important.
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I look forward to telling some of my stories and my opinions
on things. I just think this is really great to talk about because
if we don't discuss it, nothing changes and you don't know what
you don't know, right?
So we all get a chance to kind of learn what we didn't know.
Thank you!
>> Thank you, Gregory! I have been an OT for 18 years in the area
of pediatrics, primarily in school base and early intervention.
I'm also an adjunct professor at community college, in our OTA
program. I'm in my final stages of my doctorate degree with the
University. The focus of my research centers on exploring the
real and perceived barriers with diversity inclusion and
occupational therapy education, practice and at the association
and some of you have participating in my research and I want to
thank you.
As an extension of my passion, and the DEI space, I founded
a grass roots organization that is a college access and college
retention program for families of color.
What I would like to hear discussed tonight are your stories.
The world is awakening to the cries of injustice and there is a
movement happening. There are many stories but generally, what
happens is we share these stories within our own echo chambers
because these are the spaces we feel validated and then nothing
happens.
It's up for us to share these stories so we can use these
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experiences to first identify opportunities for change and then
take actionable steps towards systemic change within our
profession.
I have certainly felt marginalized as a professional and have
experienced implicit and explicit biases due to the color of my
skin.
Tonight is about you. Tonight is sharing. Tonight is finding
possible opportunities and gaps so that we can move forward and
take that information and really affect change.
And provide leadership for our organization, our profession
to help our future practice. I will hand it back over.
>> Thank you! So just a reminder as we get into our discussion
now, we ask you to raise your hand using the participant's box.
I will call on you and ask you to then unmute yourself.
Another thing I wanted to mention is that we won't be able to
get to all of the questions tonight in our Zoom and YouTube.
However, we'll capture them and use them to inform future sessions
and other initiative.
I do want to acknowledge we have Liz who is assisting with
capturing some of that information so that we can use it as we move
forward.
So with that, I'm going to open it up to discussions for
everyone. If again, if you want to participate go ahead and raise
your hand in that box. Share your story, ask your question, and
we will get going. I do believe I was -- we have one individual
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that I can call on to start.
Ms. Ivory, if you are willing to join us, to go ahead and unmute
yourself and then you can go ahead and speak.
>> Sorry, I forget. I wasn't expecting that. Hi, good evening,
everybody! My name is ivory Campbell and I have been practicing
occupational therapy for a little over ten years. And pediatrics
as well as in geriatrics.
When Dr. Gibbs told me about this discussion, I flood of
different experiences have happened through grad school, up until
now. Some of which I was able to walk away and definitely identify
as silver lining for my own personal growth as a professional.
But there are some that I definitely, you know, plainly
speaking was just really hurtful. And you know, occupational
therapy is definitely a profession of the human, you know? You
can't really do this job without really trying to connect and
understand the routines and the personality whether that person
is three years old, 17 or 71.
And when you realize that the color of your skin can be a barrier
to that, definitely adds on a different -- layer of complexity to
the job when the job is already significantly complex.
So one situation I had was the very first job that I applied
to coming out of grad school, I won't say the company's name. But
through an entire year of, I guess, what you would call like a
mentorship program that was paid but you kind of were in the office,
you were in the head quarters and you were learning like different
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departments on how they operated in this company.
My plan is even when acquired my license, that I would move
to Virginia for this company. Within that year, I had experienced
a variety of experiences that I can only attribute to the color
of my skin.
The first one, there was a group of mentors and there was 7
of us. I was the only African-American in that group. That's
fine. I'm not walking in the environment thinking I'm going to
encounter bias or racism.
However, as I continued to work and prepare my mind to relocate
and I'm a new grand and I'm trying to understand what person, you
know, what person will I call on for this type of support, that
type of support.
What I had learned, unfortunately, the salaries that were
offered to us was very different. So I was offered 10,000 dollars
less than the other six people in that group.
Honestly, my experience, my work experience related to the
field and my experience I had done two research projects while in
school, really would have definitely set me apart from the other
six mentes if you will.
I was definitely getting paid less and they were all staying
local and I was relocating and my case load was the highest.
My weekly quota was the highest. And when I noticed that, you
know, the company was said, we're not supposed to discuss salaries
and I didn't initiate the conversation. The information came to
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me. What I found myself is that I went to the HR representative
head, actually, and I spoke to him in private because I felt -- I
mean, my first question was, am I going to make a mistake?
Am I going to relocate my family on behalf of a company that
is already treating me differently and just, I haven't even gotten
my license yet. And you know, thankfully, confidentially, he
explained to me that the company did not --
Well, not even did not, but had refused to create an HR program
that would help -- that would offer annual training to help people
identify and redefine what cultural competency was and
understanding their own biases.
The company had refused, the multiple attempts. He had shown
me the proposals on how they continue to make different reasons
as to why they don't want to roll it out. However, what he had
noticed is there's a number of African-Americans that had
complained about being treated differently than the most.
Than the rest of the staff or the employees. So with that,
he gave me a couple of names to go and talk about and do research
about why my salary, everything I was offering was much lower and
I was relocating.
And I did that and you know, I did -- I ended up talking to
other department heads confidentially and they were Caucasian and
were trying to help me understand the dynamics in the company.
You have to imagine that for me, going through grad school,
being told that I shouldn't pursue a master's degree. That I
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should be a nurse's aid, you know?
I should always strive to be the assistant of a licensed
therapist. It wasn't the first time but it was very scary because
I was so excited to relocate, to get started, to branch out, to
develop and to know, I say that monkey of like, what other
challenges am I going to have to endure on top of being a new
graduate and a new professional because of the color of my skin
that I cannot change.
I don't want to change. It's a worry that you start your day
with every day working and then you go into people's homes. As
a home health position, you go into other people's homes and you
have to leave all of that behind you so you can see this individual
as an individual who needs your help.
So to speak to that and speak with that is, you know, I was
taught at an early age that because I was black, that my journey
and my career, and my life will always be a trifle.
My best, probably would not be acknowledged as so. So again,
it wasn't the first time but, I will tell you as a new grad, in
having to like, literally do research to help get understandings
of a company that wouldn't support me as much as they would support
someone else because I was black.
It adds on a layer to entering the workforce, you know? You're
so happy. You know, I was the first person in my family on both
my mom and my father's side of the family to go to college, finish
their Bachelors Degree, finish their master's degree.
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I felt like I can't celebrate it because I'm still black and
I'm require today still be black, maintain a very positive face,
a positive attitude, help everyone. And then known my best, the
best, may not be considered the best and that there's always going
to be an opportunity to critique me.
To create a mind set that I'm not good enough. So you know,
when I shared this story before with students, you know, I think
I look at racism as something very generational.
But like, what I'm trying to do now is have a conversation and
hope that the person on the receiving end of that is open and even
if they don't explore their biases to me, because it is something
to have to explore your biases in front of someone else. It brings
about shame and ignorance, you know? I just, I really encourage
individuals. If you really care about just human beings, if you
care about the nature of this profession.
You take some time and you journal and you write down your
feelings. Sometimes we have feelings towards another race that
we're not even aware of. You know? And I think one thing I was
taught in grad school to be an occupational therapist because the
profession is so dynamic, is that I have to reflect at the end of
my day.
I do it now. I either write it down or I type it to myself
because I have had a lot of experiences that
>> Thank you.
>> Yeah, I have a ton of stories, you know?
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>> Thank you! Thank you, we appreciate that. And I want to allow
the panel to reply if they have any responses to that.
>> Well, I agree, I can say, I have felt the same as you and you
are entry level. I'm coming into a profession. I felt that as
an experience therapist coming in. Where going into a client's
home, and facing those same issues and am I good enough?
You know, I'm not good enough to treat.
For example, I went into, I showed up to a client's home for
early intervention evaluation. The black nanny granted me at the
door. Biggest smile. She was so excited to see me.
She ushered me into the living area to meet the mom. Mom says,
where is the occupational therapist. I'm like, I'm here
(laughing), you know? Here I am. And she said, I was expecting
someone else and you're not going to evaluate my child.
Yeah. And so I was very explicit and racism from the door.
And you know, I just also, in that moment felt my degrees don't
mean anything to this woman. No matter how good I am, it's not
going to help the situation because she has these biases against
me and we have to, you know, almost accept it.
And we're expected to accept it and move on and go on with the
daily lives, you know? And treat the next child and bring that
baggage with you in the next home, you know? And it's difficult.
It is very difficult. And I'm sure ivory and I are not the only
ones who have experienced this.
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I'm curious to know if anyone else has experienced any like
this in their workplace, with their supervisor or even a colleague
in these spaces.
>> Thank you, we do have a response, you can certainly raise your
hand. At this point, I'm going to move on, if you can unmute
yourself and join us.
>> Hello, everyone! I have been an occupational therapist for
thirty years. My daughter is currently an occupational
therapist. She's in American therapy school and that was her
first choice.
When I saw this, I'm so grateful for this but I thought, what
took so long?
I mean, when I listen to the students say that they were like,
oh, there's only three in their class, or two in their class.
I'm like, this was thirty years ago. Why hasn't this changed?
Why are we only addressing this thirty years from now. Why haven't
things changed?
And of course, I have some of the same experience as some of
the other therapists being African-American and it's hurtful. I
had a parent that actually said her son went to a private school,
an all white school, and when I evaluate the child, I say I don't
have any space on my schedule.
It was a pediatric home health. I did everything. I did
rehab, pediatric home health, I did schools, state school, I did
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everything except work private.
Any ways, I went to the home and I evaluated the child and I
said, I can't see the child after school because my schedule is
full. I will have to go to the school. She said, that was fine.
Then she called the office and said, it would be embarrassing.
My son would be embarrassed for her to go to the school. I'm like,
okay, so they found another therapist and of course, they found
a white therapist and the thing was, that the therapist they found
had a son that went to the school and she's like, oh, it would be
just like another parent coming into the school.
But my supervisor, I would tell you, we talked and she -- the
things she said to me was, I said, I really thought it was because
I was black and she said, I don't know.
What a good answer. But what I find that happens when the
parent complains. They will say, oh, she did this or she did that
because they really didn't you want there from the beginning.
They want the child to, you know, start the process. And a lot
of times, when we do an evaluation, that's held against you. They
will say, oh, you know, we had a parent that complained or didn't
like you or whatever.
I think, I mean, I know that -- I know it's not always the case
that, because you're black, sometimes, the parents do have a
legitimate reason and that needs to be respected.
Even if a parent, you know, I'm like, every parent, you know,
they have a choice. That's their right and that means it needs
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to be respected but I think, managers need to kind of know when.
You know, because you're African-American and not hold it against
you when it comes time for evaluation. Like, oh, you had these
complaints.
They know, some of those complaints were not really valid. I
had another time. I went to patient's room in the hospital and
they were like, oh, you know, I wanted a therapist because this
therapist didn't know what she's doing.
My supervisor goes, oh, what's the problem. They couldn't
pinpoint it. It was comical because they sent another therapist
in and the therapist said, oh, you're not doing the therapy like
she was doing it and she said, who?
The therapist that you said she didn't know what she was doing?
So it's kind of comical because they wanted her to do therapy like
I was doing it. Not like she did therapy. But they said, I didn't
know what I was doing.
So it was kind of like, they thought they would get better but
they didn't get better. They didn't get a better therapist. And
they really, I feel like they couldn't -- they had too many problems
to ask me for back.
So they ended up telling the supervisor. You know, no -- so
they would just complain. They are just complaining.
They're not going to say it's because you're black. They're
going to say, well, lot of times, because you're black, it's not
really a complaint. They don't really know. It's kind of vague
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and broad. They don't have one specific thing you have done wrong.
It's something that is wrong.
Even doing pediatric, I had therapists that would say, this
thing, oh, you know, she rings the doorbell too loud. Okay, so
I'm not -- I knock, I knock. Oh, I should ring the doorbell? They
think they're really unhappy so they just have these little bitty
complaints about little silly things.
To Ivory, I told them, you can be whatever you want to be. I
didn't raise them with the fact -- they're black. Yes, they know
there's racism out there but I tell them, they can be whatever they
want to be. When someone has a problem with you, don't make it
your problem. That's their problem.
I have learned that in my career. I do my best. I go in and
do the best therapy I can do. I do my best and once I have done
my best, and you still have a problem with me, okay. Well, I
mean -- all I can give is my best. I know when it's little
complaints that are just, just little silly complaints and then
when you say that, it's like, I didn't know what I was doing.
Well, you didn't do therapy -- you're not doing it like the
other girl was doing it, you know? You're saying she's not a good
therapist and you said she wasn't knowing what she was doing so
you know that's not the issue.
So I just think that, supervisor need to look at things like
that. If a patient complains and they say, okay, she didn't know
what she was doing. They send in another patient. You're not
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doing therapy like the other therapist did the therapy. Then you
know, okay, she did know what she was doing because they're like,
in a way, like, wanting her back.
And not hold it against you when it comes to evaluation time.
And say, okay, you have this complaint. Kind of be more in tune
to that.
Back to my initial question is, what took us so long to get
to this point, thirty years? I will say when I was in school, well,
I went to school in Texas. I'm not going to name the school.
We had a professor who was blatantly racist. Even the students
noticed it. She had tenure. They could not do anything to her.
What happens to the instructors that are racist?
They can't do anything? They can't be reprimanded? Even the
students that were not African-Americans saw that. This teacher
was just blatantly racist. So my two questions is, what took us
to get to this point and what -- I'm really hoping this won't be
just a talk. We're going to talk it and do something about it.
So my daughter, when she finishes school, she won't have to
go through some of the things I went through as an occupational
therapist. I love the field.
And my daughter, she loves the field but, like, what took us
so long to get to this point and what are we going to do?
What happens when there are -- I know you can file complaints
on racist instructions and that was done by some of the students.
There was only like four African-Americans and nothing really
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happened. They said she had tenure. They never did anything.
They taught for years with that same attitude.
>> Thank you so much for all of that. I guess I will recap the
questions that she had in regards to what took us so long and the
second one is, probably relating to the ethical standards in
regards to having instructors that may be presenting with racism.
What are the steps that our students, institutions, educators
need to take when we're faced with those situations. So I will
pass it on to our panel.
>> I would like to get into that. One of the other things she also
asked about is diversity as far as her employer or supervisor
understanding that just because there may be a complaint, it
doesn't mean it's a real complaint. That it could be something
stemming from racism.
A supervisor that can sit back and say, wait a minute. She's
complaining about this. This does exist. It goes a long way, you
know? I feel like a lot of people don't realize that racism is
so systemic and sometimes it happens.
So I feel like, when we have conversations like this, people
who haven't walked in a person of color's shoes, they can kind of
see where we're coming from, see what we're dealing with and you
know, when I go to a co worker or to a supervisor and I say that
Mrs. So and so, might not like me and she might not like me, not
because of my practice but because of just my skin color.
And I just might need to vent or talk about it. If we have
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conversations like this, maybe my supervisor or my co worker can
empathize and not look at me and say, oh, you're crazy.
What are you talking about? Because I do feel like there's
an opinion of some people that after the civil rights in the 60s,
that it just ended racism.
Once people got the right to vote and live where they wanted
to live, that it was the end of the story and then there's also
people who just don't want to talk about it.
You know, it's uncomfortable so when you talk about why it took
so long, it's uncomfortable. That's why. And people want to be
in their safe bubble and where everything is fine and there's no
issues and no race. Because the laws, you know, prohibit it. But
it doesn't mean that it's not racism and -- you know, if we can
just educate everyone that it does exist and to be more empathetic
to this when it happens or when someone complains with it. I think
that goes along way.
>> Thank you, Greg for your response. So I don't know if anyone
else, if Melissa, if you wanted to chime in with that at all for
Wendy before we move on to our next question.
>> Oh, I don't know that I have an answer or an appropriate answer
about why it took so long. I don't have an answer. I just think
you're absolutely right. There's things that continue to happen.
We were watching law and order the other night in my house.
There was an episode from like, 91 and it was almost a mirror
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image of things going on now. We had the same conversation that
you are. Like, how is this still happening?
I don't have an answer as to why. I give you my commitment
that we will make changes. As we gather all of your information,
I think, hearing from you all is helpful to know that we can't slide
back, we cannot do something. So I really look forward to hearing
more from you all.
And any ideas that you may have about moving forward and making
changes.
>> May I say something?
>> Someone requested to say something?
>> Yes, I wanted to know, because presently, there may be some
students that are having this problem with instructors. What is
a chain of command that maybe they can follow?
Is there a help line or something that they can call and say,
you know, I'm experiencing this because as an OT student, you're
already stressed out.
To have that kind of experience on top of that and don't have
an out let, especially in the 21st century. You know, we
definitely can make it better.
>> Penny: One of the things that, when I was the ethics officer
at IOTA, we had many calls from students who had a variety of
problems including over racism and sexism.
The students in particular, if you look at the code of ethics
you can see where that behavior is not ethical and in many cases,
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not legal. No matter what AOTA and how they're handling ethic
complaints right now, that is something. That is a confidential
conversation.
Melissa or Wendy, I don't know, how AOTA is doing ethics now.
>> Hi, penny, you were taking us to a place I was thinking about
as well in terms of conduct of behavior expectations and of
professional expectations. Let alone human expectations, right?
And the way in which each person has that right to be regarded
with respect and dignity.
So when that is not happening, you know, it's a hard thing.
It's like, from -- I wish I had like, like the right answer. But
I'm not going to make something up and say, you know, that there's
an easy one to get there. I still appreciate the question being
raised.
Because we do have students out there right now, trying to think
about how to navigate that and where is my place and my opportunity
in my space to make us the end or take us to the end.
If I have concerns about something that is taking place either
directed towards me, or directed towards someone else, you know?
There may be people on this call that are seeing this happen to
someone else in their space and they have the responsibility to
be speaking up as well or stepping in, in those times when it's
not okay.
When it's simply not okay. So you know, Penny is, you know,
raising the point about ethics and certainly ethics and
24
professional behavior, professional conduct, should be on all of
our minds and if it's a place where we need to maybe be making more
explicit advisory connections or things like that, you know, for
AOTA.
The ethics group are wonderfully equipped to think about these
things. They're not easy things to think about as we're all saying
right here. And they're equally challenging, you know, in terms
of action. But that's, you know, that is a place where we
can -- where we might be able to direct that kind of concern. But
that's huge.
You can call the ethics department or, you know, the folks
involved with ethics there. You can send an e-mail. I know there
are people on the board of directors that we take e-mails as well.
You know, the thing I can't tell you is can we commit to something
specific right now.
That's why I really appreciate it being brought up at all and
giving us the chance to think about it so we can take the thinking
and put it into an action step supportive of young people, new
professionals, and seasoned professions that are still having this
experience in our professions.
Thank you for bringing it forward. I appreciate it and a
chance to speak to that.
>> The only thing I want to add because since you're talking about
students who are actively in academic programs, they're academic
institution, you probably have policies in place they can utilize
25
to address whatever those needs are.
As well as if it's escalated to a certain level, they can also
place a complaint with the accrediting body and it and addressed
there.
However, the true challenge is that students are placed and
they're not in a dominant position and OT is a very small
profession.
So the challenge is there's mechanisms in place that a lot of
students they not go in that direction because they're concerned
about the backlash after they make that type of complaint.
So I think, maybe AOTA may be possible, and this could be
something that you could bring up for the task force. It's looking
at ways to help students advocate so they are protected as they're
going through these channels to have their voices heard.
So empowering them in a sense.
>> And I would just, along that -- you brought up the institutions
where academic programs are housed Sabrina. You would hope, and
it's not always the case, right? You would hope that the academic
institutions would be a place for students to bring those kinds
of concerns or complaints to their institution as well.
There again, you also, you know, what burden is being carried
by the students in that case? What responsibility is being asked
for them to carry in that way.
They're trying to get through their program and be an
occupational therapist or assistant.
26
I will just say this, I don't know how popular or not, but if
this is happening in our academic environments, our academic
community needs to look at one another as well and see how we can
talk to each other as fellow faculty colleagues.
You know, as program directors, as people who are vested as
occupational therapies. What we're happening, is it happening in
practice environments? We all have responsibility for doing the
work individually to do better and coming together to make things
change.
>> Linda Smith, keeping raising her hand. You probably have a list
working -- I'll be quite.
>> Maybe that's just for you. I can't see it on my end.
>> I told someone they could go next but Linda -- I don't see your
hand raised on my end. I'm not sure why. But I can put you in
queue, okay?
>> Okay.
>> So before we get to the next individual, I did want to share
quickly because someone asked and I'm not sure if it was in the
chat box but, our code of ethics on our website,
AOTA.ORG/practice/ethics, it says this commitment extends beyond
service recipients to includes professional colleagues, students,
educators, businesses and the community.
So I just wanted to highlight that because I heard that years
ago and it really resinated for me. Our code of ethics is not just
27
for the individuals that we serve. It's also for our peers and
our students. So it's just interesting, the question that came
out of chat in terms of what code of conduct we have. I encourage
you to look at it.
I'm going it ask Angela to answer that. She's been ready and
waiting.
>> Hello, my fellow OT family! I am almost at a loss of words.
But I feel it's an honor and privilege to share. I appreciate your
patience in advance. I was one of those who felt like I did not
want to share.
I believe it's safe to say, I consider myself a global citizen.
I'm really big on positivity so I never wanted to speak what I felt
was negativity even if it was part of my experience personally.
I felt that how I was put spiritually, it put me in a position,
I could be equal to the task, no matter what the brunt or pain or
discomfort was.
I'm learning and this is a healing process for me. I have to
say, I want to briefly just share a few experiences I had, only
to highlight.
Not that it's like, I'm the only one, but this is something
as a family. Because we heal at home. So as a family, we can
achieve and we can work on in the education sector, in work sector,
in the community. So my education experience was very positive
in the University I completed my under grad. I am accredited as
a bachelor of science recipient.
28
I will say, the vast majority of my clinical practice for over
16 years has been relatively positive but I remember an experience
when I was a student. I was volunteering. You know those hours
we have to complete when we're getting ready to apply to the
program. I remember being so honored to be able to complete those
hours.
I'm sharing you guys, we're mobile as a family so pardon me.
You are really being invited to me family.
But I remember having the distinct honor and privilege to going
to one of the most world renown, rehabilitation places to get my
volunteer hours in.
But what our now colleagues didn't know, is that I already
worked there. I was working there as pharmacy technician. I had
observed some of them and thought they were the nicest young ladies
I could have possibly been paired with and I wasn't treated that
way.
I never talked about it. I remember because I was a single
parent at the time, raising two small children and I had to
reschedule.
I remember being made to feel inadequate as a potential
professional because I needed to reschedule. They assigned
blame, a lack of gratitude and I remember leaving that experience
feeling like well, if that's the case, I might as well look at it
as a wash to enter the profession.
Having faced things from a spiritual standpoint all of my life,
29
I used my faith base to get me through those challenges.
I'm thankful that I did. Because the glory does belong to all
mighty God and not myself. I was able to make amend after speaking
to the young ladies about how I felt.
I did share with them because I had enough confidence because
of my current status of a para professional to let them know I felt
as if I was being uninvited because of who I was.
Not because of the fact I needed to reschedule. It was a very
uncomfortable conversation. It was like, 8AOTs and COTAs to look
within and make the necessary changes moving forward from that
experience. I didn't work with them as an OT but I'm certain as
I took that experience with me, they did also.
The next experience is a positive one. It was during my tenure
at the University where I served in a different field. I was a
major change before I became an occupational therapist. So having
known some of the instructors prior to actually getting started,
I really felt safe. To be who I was and accepted for who I was.
I realize, it should be an expectation and it was an privilege
and honor for me to have that experience as a student. So yes,
I want to work with my fellow OTs so we can create a safe space
so we can have students to share their experience and peer into
these experiences to make sure that we help everyone grow,
including our peers if need be.
Again, that was the positive. But recently, I'm devastated
to go through this process, years where after having, not so great
30
experience with one organization, really feeling as if I had been
ousted from a profession that I love, from a career that I know
brings glory and honor to God.
I will share with you. This is where we can come together and
make a difference. I can recall, I don't remember to view it as
a soft discharge. However, I was no longer with the company.
Most OTs know, well, especially if you worked in skilled
nursing, oh my goodness, you'll find a company in a couple of weeks
and move on. Most of us who have practiced for a number of years,
we know when administration changes, those things happen.
Sometimes people want to be surrounded by the people they can trust
and get the numbers.
I can get that. What I didn't understand was why after having
that many years experience, and I won't claim myself to be world
renown physician, but saying, I have the clinical competition so
do my job because I have done it in a number of settings.
It was very disturbing to me to have trouble finding work. So
this is where we see the collective order of people who have
stereotypical ideas or even a desire to subject people of color
to power plays and recruiters.
I had recruiters my children's ages calling and it was almost
as if they knew me but I didn't know them. So if I put in an
application on indeed or if I put in an application with the company
direct, I would be either shifted to a contract agency, and that
would be where I would have more opportunity.
31
With a contract agency as oppose to seeking full time
employment, because obviously my hand had become tarnished and I'm
going to just say it in laymen's terms because I think that's how
we need to deal with it.
We need to deal real and so, because I don't judge from a
standpoint of knowing everything that a person thinks or feels,
I share my experience because I am certain there are others who
may have experienced similarly.
I can recall having a professional experience with another OT
who talked about months when looking for employment, she found
herself needing similar challenges. Since that time, I have done
more work in community out reach which is really helped me to
embrace, following our centennial vision.
I realized that those experiences that we don't oftentimes
appreciate, they are what refines us. So I share this with you
all and briefly, because there's so much more that I could share
to really say, I'm thankful to be where I am now.
I recognize that all mighty God was creating a pathway for me
to implement changes that relates to diversity and inclusion but
more importantly to really look at how we can share what we do as
occupational therapists with our communities. And with the
world.
And how we can also connect so that we can actually better serve
one another because we're all human. Ethics is a consideration
that I feel each and every one of us has to consider every day.
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And in every aspect of our lives, personally and professionally.
So I'm not against one of my peers or my OT brothers and sisters
to come to me and say, hey, have you ever thought about this, how
it could be perceived like this?
Or maybe, when you said this, I felt like this.
That's what we're here for. We are here to strengthen one
another. Just like we help those who we refer to see, to evaluate,
we can do that for one another. We are train today be critical
thinkers and we need to listen to our guts.
If there's something about where you work or who you work with,
that is disturbing, I say, pray. Others may say meditate but find
the insight and the words and have the uncomfortable conversations
because that's the only way we're going to grow.
I think we can see how a lack of growth impairs not only a
people, but an entire nation and an entire globe and we done to
want do that. Thank you all.
>> Thank you! We appreciate that Angela. And so I -- the panel
can certainly respond to Angela's really heart felt story and
comments. Before they do that, I want to give us a little time
reminder. We're at 8:30. We have a little bit more time left.
We have Linda, we have you in queue as well as Ann that would
be up next.
And then Sabrina has a couple of other questions that we're
going to address. So with that, based on Angela's remarks, would
anyone from the panel want to speak to that?
33
>> Yeah, I just want to, first of all, thank you for sharing all
of that. It's great to hear your perspective as a seasoned
therapist and some of your experience.
I think that a merging theme and topic that I am getting from,
you know, Ivory, yourself, is that advocating for ourselves is
something that is really going to be something that we have to
really try to strive for.
As an entry level therapist, it can be really challenging
because we are still learning. You know?
And also, as a student, it can be challenging because as I can't
remember who mentioned it. But students are not necessarily -- in
this dominant position. So I think it's important that we find
ways to instill that advocacy. Part of what we do is to advocate
for our clients and patients.
We in turn need to learn how to do it for ourselves and it would
be great if schools taught that a little bit more on how to handle
certain situations and how to be able to advocate without feeling
like you're going to receive all of these reprocautions for stating
your peace.
And reflecting and processing the information. For me
personally, I try not to just say something that, you know, if
someone said something offensive to me or something like that, I
try not to respond immediately.
If I can have some time to process it and then come back. And
really restate why it was bother some. So what I'm hearing is,
34
we need to do more as far as -- or what I am taking from all of
this conversation is really that we need to start educating
students on how to handle some of these situations.
To me, it's in preparation for dealing with professors, dealing
with clinical instructions when they go out in field work.
Dealing with supervisor and managers in the workplace. It's a
really important -- I just feel like it's something very important
that we really need to start educating and instilling in
practitioners, especially as students early on.
So we can have these skill sets to thank you for sharing that
Angela and I hope that, that it's something that we can look into
and really start kind of creating an action plan towards really
just starting the power in that, of the student and of the
practitioner.
>> I would also like to add, you make a good point. Having the
students being able to advocate for themselves but also, have the
educators be held accountable for their action.
It shouldn't always be the student who has to speak up. It
should be, because it's structural and it's institutionalized,
there are things that need to be changed, period.
And it -- the onus should not be on the student only to be able
to navigate those spaces and they're trying to learn at the same
time.
And I also want to say that, you know, Angela brought up a very
good point. We are in a profession of helping. We should be able
35
to help each other. We are all occupational beings coming into
our work spaces and if we can treat a patient with care, we should
be able to treat each other with care at the same time.
Thank you, Angela!
>> I just want to say something, to piggy back on what Angela was
saying. As a manager you can't control the feelings of the mom
or the patient. If they're racist, you can't control that.
That's just the way that the world is but you can sit down with
your student or with the therapist and really talk with them and
find out exactly what happened and have them make that judgment
for yourself.
Was this a valid complaint on this therapist? Not just saying,
oh, I know -- the customer is always right. But respect the
customer's wants. If they want that, you can give them that but
you also sit down with the therapist and say, okay, what happened?
Of course, you'll get the customer's point of view and try to
make that decision -- some things they be valid. Everything isn't
racism. But I feel like the manager needs to hear the therapist
out and like I said before, the best thing I had a manager say is
she never walked in my shoes so she didn't know why I felt.
And -- I'm like, oh, the child is going to be embarrassed when
go to the school? Just sit down with that therapist and find out
what happened before you count that against them and say, okay,
this -- you have an evaluation coming up and you won't get this
promotion or raise.
36
Don't be judgmental. Be neutral and give everybody the
respect. The therapist and the client, the respect. And not be
judgment and just, you know, say -- I'm trying to find a better
way to say this. Not be judgment, listen to the therapist and not
judge the therapist first if the client calls and say that have
an issue.
Find out exactly what happened and -- hold against that
therapist or if it's something you know, that the client is just
didn't want the therapist.
Therefore, because they were African-American. I had
situations where I have taken over, say, someone's client and the
client automatically thought -- they didn't know that I was an
occupational therapist with a master's degree. They were like,
oh!
And so the coder would say, no, she's well trained. So
sometimes they just look at us as, as if we're not well trained.
I have walked into the hospital and people said, oh, I thought
you were coming to get the trash. So sometimes they just don't
see us as intelligent. And think we are the lesser person.
So we need a little bit more compassion there and less being
judgmental and respect for everybody.
Respect for the client and respect for the therapist and also,
like Angela said, a lot of therapist -- I have been a therapist
for thirty years. Like, you don't want to complain because OT is
a small world.
37
You don't want people to say, oh, she's a troublemaker so we're
not going to hire her or whatever.
So you take a lot and you just, you know, deal with it. You
deal with it because you love what you do, you love your profession
and you want to keep working in your profession and not be
ostracized.
>> I'm sorry -- I hate to cut you off. Your comments are so
passionate and we appreciate it. We promise that we would get to
next person --
>> I'm sorry, I had my chance already. I'm sorry for going on and
on.
>> Thank you, thank you. I'm going to pass it on, do you want to
unmute yourself? Hi, oops, wait a minute. I might click the
right -- you can see me? Okay, I can see myself.
I know Wendy! My maiden name was Woods and I was at KU.
>> I knew that was you!
>> In our class, I was one of two African-American therapist.
Interesting thing was, that other therapists, oh, look, there's
Tracy, my girl.
She grew up in the middle class family. I grew up in inner
city. I'm smack in the middle of Kansas City. So I see
everything, experience everything. So even with that, even
though we were both African-American, it was different. And also,
in OT school, I can remember the first day of -- they were saying,
don't work. I'm like, then we're going to need all the time to
38
study. Oh my God. I was working forty hours. I didn't want to
tell them. I was afraid if I tell them, they were going to kick
me out of OT school. You know, those are just the things you do.
One of the things, I worked at true man medical center. I'm
a very problem solving person. I did, kind of like a group
instructional thing at Reichers.
I did it on multi-cultural issues affecting treatment. It was
about, you know, Caucasian therapists there. And I told her, I
said it was a safe place. I said, this is a safe place. Ask me
anything because one of my main goals for doing that is because
they didn't know they were irritating and insulting their patients
or other therapists and stuff of a different color.
Especially the African-American. So I, you know, I made it
a safe place. They asked me about my hair. I would get the bucket
out and show them the different things, a cup, a pitcher.
I said this comb and I did this. I was like, this comb ain't
going to do anything for me. You go to a black hair care place,
blah blah blah. And I kept it a safe place where people felt like
they could ask me anything. That is very very important.
One experience I had, well, I'm doing an evaluation on the rehab
unit. I walk to see the patient. The patient is looking in the
opposite direction.
I'm thinking, well, you know, every time I wanted to talk to
her, she was literally looking in the opposite direction. I
changed over to the other side of the bed and she looked in the
39
opposite direction. I'm trying to do my value, and I'm like, what
is going on?
Well, I can come in and see you again tomorrow. That next
morning, my boss wanted to see me. When I walked in the room, the
department head was there. I'm like, oh my God. What did I do?
They said. Have a seat. They said, the patient, they said
her doctor -- she told the doctor she did not want to see me because
I'm African-American. I said, okay.
My boss and the other, you know, administrator and they just
looked at me. They're like, you're not bothered with that? You
okay?
I said, look, I have been black all of my life. I said, I deal
with this stuff all of the time since I was a kid. I said, she
is not going to want to see me. I said, my goal for her is for
her to get better, have a good rehab experience, go home and be
happy.
I'm like, I'm going to work. The most ironic thing, she called
the nurse's station. She had to go to the bathroom. Oh, no, she
fell on the floor and she had to go to the bathroom.
The nurse -- the nurse looked at me and said, no. I said, look,
if I go in there, that woman is going to pee on herself.
She is not going to -- you know? And the nurse said, why is
that? And I just did this. Said, because I'm black. But the
thing -- those things happen. And I have had instances where I
have done home health.
40
I'm driving to the place in a rural area, confederate flag,
confederate flag, you know. I'm like, oh my God!
I have to keep an open mind. I'm a Christian and that's my
thing. I have to -- I'm praying. I am praying when I leave in
the morning. I get my mind right and just take a deep breath and
walk on in.
There have been times when I'm so frustrated I go to the
bathroom and cry. You know, I go in my car and cry because a lot
of times I'm the only one and there's no one else to talk to.
If you do try to talk to your boss or whatever, I don't know
the right words to say. So one of the things -- I also taught for
a few years and they had a lot of questions.
With me being in a lot of different areas, we are in a lot of
different areas and the department building and things like that.
I would always say, okay, we're going to take the class room to
the clinic.
I had a separate lab where I was like a person they would
normally see. Like a person they would see. You're going to see
somebody who is a gang member. I have seen lots of gang members.
What are you going to do? Like, no? I'm a therapist. So I would
show different situations like that.
Another thing that I would do, well, a lot of role-playing and
I would use humor, you know? Using humor and some of my older
African-American patients and stuff, or even younger, or even
Caucasian or Latino. When I get their eval, I would always ask
41
them what their support systems are.
Do you go to church? No. I would tell their family, call the
pastor and see if they can send a tape or a program or anything.
You know? One lady I saw she had a stroke. So when I was with
her, I was humming a hymn and she started humming right along with
me and the speech therapist just is like, oh, she's talking.
I said, oh, we were just humming a hymn and she says, can you
do that when I see her? I'm like, you know? Those things are so
important and it helps to encourage. That's one of the things,
you know. Find out about your patient. Find out if they know how
to read.
You know, if the font is too small on your regular handouts,
you need to know it so you can enlarge it.
>> Thank you so much. I'm so sorry. I appreciate it. I mean,
you really speak to that's why having someone with a similar
culture as your own is important to have, practitioners from
diverse backgrounds but that's a perfect example why.
It's not to exclude anyone else but that's what might be there.
Thank you so much!
I'm going to ask for Ann to hop in since she's patiently
waiting.
>> Hi, I'm Ann. I have practiced occupational therapy
for -- years, I'm the first African-American budget Boston school
in 1969. And I -- all of the experiences of the therapists walk
in the room and they didn't want to see you.
42
In terms of supervisors who said various things that were not
appropriate. I have had that experience. But the only thing that
I really wanted to say was, why are we still doing this -- having
the same problems over fifty years at least in my experience of
occupational therapy.
I read the transcript of, I think, previous session or I started
reading and it brought up all of my pain.
Of what happened to me. And there were very few of us, fifty
years ago when I started. So in terms of the good news, there's
good people out there. Those who didn't want me, that was their
loss.
My parents taught me that I needed to be the best thing I can.
That God would be with me in my travels and now that I have been
retired for almost ten years, I still maintain all of my
memberships from my American association -- I read my literature
and agreed my career, except, I'm still a black occupational
therapist and I have been judged, sometimes very unfairly.
My one question would be, how do -- there's two sides of this
problem. There's the side of staff member, of being an
occupational therapist, an assistant, and how can we remove
racism?
But for the patients, our clients that we serve, I do not know
how to teach some people how not to be racist.
And thank you for letting me share my information.
>> Thank you, Ann! That's a big question! How do we teach someone
43
not to be racist. The anti racism.
And I think that's something that we're going to include in
our transcript moving forward. That's a big question to tackle.
Thank you!
I'm going to let Sabrina hop in because she had a couple of
things to share from chat.
>> Sabrina is not going to ask my questions because I realize we
have nine minutes left. I want to be respectful of everyone's
time. What I can say is, I have been reading some of the questions
in the chat and it sounds like a lot of people are really concerned
and really want to know about what AOTA is doing.
What are some of the initiative, you know, to kind of spear
head change. Also, a lot of questions about education and having
to educate our educators.
In the educational institutions as well as the work. For those
who have questions that are specific to education and there seems
to be a lot. It seems to be a recurrent theme. We have our last
of this series next Thursday. It's focused on educators. So if
you have concerns, issues, comments, if you want your voice to be
heard, because my assumption would be it's all, if not mostly
educators.
Please join that session. That would be a good place to kind
of pose some of those questions and have them hear it.
If you're unable to make it, we do have -- oh, I'm forgetting
her name. She's going to kill me, I'm sorry. But we have the post
44
doctorate student who is helping us, Liz Kline, who is going to
help us basically collect all of these comments and questions and
to put it in a format.
Give us the emerging themes. We will figure out a way to get
all of your questions and comments addressed. We're not sure how
we'll publish it but once all of the sessions are done, we'll figure
out a strategy to get that done.
>> Thank you, Sabrina. I do see Greg from our panel may want to
jump in with a comment.
>> Greg, are you still there?
>> I am, I am. Many many comments. Let's see. I want to go back
to something that Angela said that stuck with me because I think
we all need strategies to deal with racism.
Or just, you know, whenever we feel that we are being included
or are being treated in a way that's not respectful.
She talked about her positivity going to situations in a
positive manner. And her spirituality helped her to do that. So
I think it's great to talk about all of the things that we deal
with. And that we suffer through but she did talk about a solution
in a way. And a coping mechanism and I didn't want us to forget
that, we do have some control. We can control our attitude.
When it comes to our patients and how they feel about us, I
believe it was Melinda that kind of was alluded to meeting your
patient where they're at.
Finding out more about them. Me personally, when it comes to
45
spirituality, I'm catholic and I work in a school nursing facility
in a predominantly Italian American neighborhood so I am there.
I can talk to them about the rosary, I can talk to them about
missing mass because of COVID.
And it's not they stop seeing that I'm a black male, right?
But it takes their mind to where we meet, right? I think we all
have parts of our personality and our life, that we can connect
to other people on and it's not just our skin tone.
So that is, I think, a great way we can try to not necessarily
change the people we're working with but at least be able to help
them understand that we are more alike than we are different.
Thank you!
>> Thank you! Thank you, Greg for that. So we have -- you might
be the last one to speak tonight.
>> So it sounds like we're not hearing them. I'm not sure if you're
muted or no longer --
>> Oh, there we are, okay, all right!
I'm not hearing, Wendy. I'm not either. I saw her unmute but
I'm not hearing anything.
>> Okay, I apologize. I'm sorry we can't have you join but you
know, if you can hear us, I would encourage you to put your
statement or question in the chat so that we can at least record
it and capture it so we can address it.
So with that, I'm trying to check our time. We have about four
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minutes. I did see we had another hand up. I'm not sure if you
wanted to speak or if that was from earlier.
>> Oh, you're on mute.
>> Oh, sorry!
>> That's what I do.
>> And I'm on this all day long for telehealth. So I'm a graduate
of Tusky University and I have been an OT for a long time. But
one of the things that I would love to get addressed because I was
one of the students -- I was a student that stopped field work.
From happening in a southern state not too far.
A southern city, not too far from the University and it was
a racial thing and it scarred me. Let's say, the scars were there
for a long time.
Back there, we did a business and you did psych. This was a
psych rotation and it was a Caucasian instructor. I was there.
I started my rotation. By three weeks, I was gone. I gave it my
all and I did everything she said.
I can say my teacher, my instructor, stood by me. And she said,
it's okay. And she had to basically pep me up very well so that
I could lose my time.
You know, that's three months so you have to do something in
between, until your next rotation starts and then you're repeating
the other one.
And this lady, you know, she gets to go on with her life and
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you know, probably retire about now and all that and you have
scarred a student because of the color of their skin.
And their needs to be some kind of reprocushion, God knows how
many she did. But the University knew. They stood by me and they
knew that it wasn't me. But they did not send a student there for
a very long time. That's what my teachers said, they said they
would not.
So there has to be some way that there could be a bridge for
helping a problem such as this, and I -- I think, this is a
conversation to has to be had and some policy or some -- some kind
of ethical way of establishing something for that.
Because it puts that student behind. I mean I had no idea,
I didn't even know.
I reported it in and then I was told. The person didn't
even -- you know, panel came in. But mind you, my instructor
called me while I was back at the place thinking everything was
all right. She had to call me because she couldn't come and she
explained it to me.
And then I walked out. My mom, the money that I -- it cost
to get an apartment and all of that, and it was devastating. It
was absolutely devastating.
I'm just hoping that as an organization, that helps people,
that we can help different racial in our community as an
occupational association, to not have to experience it. No,
students should not have to experience this. I don't care what
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color, what creed. It hurts.
>> Thank you! Thank you for sharing. This is such an emotional
story. We are at time. We cannot leave it unaddressed, right?
So I think we may have too -- Wendy, do you want to address
that and then we need to wrap it up after that.
>> If you were in the queue, I don't want to jump in front of you.
>> Oh, it's okay, Wendy. I just wanted to acknowledge the pain
that a lot of students go through in trying to become an
occupational therapy practitioner and it's a shame.
I mean, Ann shared her story from how many years ago and we're
still here. Like I said before, I would like us to really continue
to share our stories and roll with this momentum. Change is
happening.
The world is awakening with this change. If we can come
together, share our stories and make an action plan so the future
of OT practitioners don't have to deal with a lot of the systemic
racism.
That begins by trying to diversify our profession because if
we have more people of color, people look like us in those field
work positions, in our work environments, as professors in our
school, we won't have as much as we have now.
So it's trying to break down those barriers so we can actually
still build pipelines for the students to come into the profession.
I mean, I really, I felt that when you shared that story. Thank
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you.
>> I just want to add, I mean, those are the things. Two weeks
ago when we got off the call with students. I got off the call
and I just sat for a minute, for a long minute with just the heavy.
Just the hurt. You know, that people are sharing in some of
their stories and the story you just shared. Obviously, there's
just -- the trauma and scars. Nothing to be dismissed. Nothing
to be dismissed.
So you know, I do thank you for sharing that with this group.
And you know, this is one of those where you want to say you're
sorry, but it's like, that's not even the right word. You know?
So I won't do that. I will say, I care about your heart and
I am so glad that you remain a part of this profession.
So thank you for doing that. Everyone has shared something
that we take away. You know, I don't know about we, but I know
we. I hear the pain. I hear the difficult exchanges with people
where you're just like, wow, why is that even a thing?
How did that happen? And at the same time, I hear even when
we're sitting here saying why are we having this conversation
thirty, forty, fifty years later?
Ann, you make my heart just happy. I know where Penny is at
for the long haul. She's one of those people and I could look at
her and just know there were right things to do, you know?
Angela tells us about her commitment to being positive and
letting faith be a grounding point. I mean, these are things we
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can all feel, carry and then do something to make changes.
You know, when I hear that thirty, forty, fifty years, it also
is a stark reminder to me, that we also are not going to have the
fix in three, four, five days.
It is a long haul commitment for each one of us, you know to
do this work together. I mean, I welcome at all of us. We have
this microcosm here of society. That is our professional group
tonight. And you know, the work that we have to do is going to
take a lot of time and a lot of sustained energy for us to get to
that place where somebody says sustainable change.
So I just, you know, I just really want to thank each one of
you for what you brought forward. I want to thank some people on
here who didn't have their chance to share. That doesn't mean you
weren't sitting here, rolling some tape in your head or feeling
something in your own heart and space.
So you know, I just thank you for taking the time and trusting
this space as a place where you can be this evening with these
stories. I also want to say, Aaron, Sandra, we saw your
suggestions over there. We're seeing everybody's suggestions
over there.
We're taking those with us. We're taking them to the task
group. We're taking them to the board. Angela, she was waiving.
So I just want to make sure you do hear that commitment from the
board. I mean, you heard that from Melissa but I'm reinforcing
that and I know there are board members on this call. Board
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members recent board members and there are current board members
that will continue, you know, to be commit today this work.
I ask you to trust us with that. I have no doubt this is a
group that will call us on it if we're falling short so I count
on that as well.
That is okay. Brandy, you have a beautiful person sitting on
your lap so I wanted to point that out as well. And I truly, truly,
want to say thank you for, I don't know. I look forward to next
week's conversation as well.
This is a hard conversation, you wish you didn't have to have
but we do and I welcome it. So for those can join us next week,
it will be good to see you there too. So any ways, so just thank
you for all of your time and everyone, thank you for walks us
through this evening, Katie and all of the people behind the scenes
back there, I know you're hiding.
>> Thank you, Wendy! Before we close, we want to remind you of
next week as Wendy just stated. We'll be back here. A lot of the
questions came up relating to education and academia.
So we can continue that dialogue especially if you didn't have
a chance to speak tonight. There's a lot of very passionate
traumatic stories that were shared and I just want to acknowledge
that hurt and pain.
As we're trying to give everyone a chance to speak, please know
that we hear you. I personally felt a lot of that from having my
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own story.
So we do thank you. Thank you for being transparent with us
and for listening.
So we're going to close out. Don't forget to tell your
students, peers, faculty members to join us next week and look for
the e-mail as well as updates on our web page.
>> Thank you!