virtual signed

8/9/2019 Virtual Signed

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KAY McGOVERN & ASSOCIATES (919) 870-1600

Suite 117, 314 West Millbrook Road FAX 870-1603

Raleigh, North Carolina 27609-4380 (800) 255-7886

A P P E A R A N C E S

Martez Hill, Executive DirectorState Board of EducationMeeting Chair

Committee Members

Eliz ColbertAndrew CoxPaul DavisHelen NanceKevin Piacenza (via telephone)Becky Taylor

Sherry Thomas (via telephone)

NC Virtual Academy

Christopher WithrowSteven MoodyTravis MitchellMarjorie BenbowSara Struhs (online)Mary Gifford, Consultant, K12, Inc.

Office of Charter Schools

Joel Medley, DirectorDeanna Townsend-Smith


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P R O C E E D I N G S1

(Transcriptionist's Note: Chairman Hill called2

the meeting to order. Ms. Townsend-Smith called3

the roll, after which the Pledge of Allegiance was4

recited and the ethics statement was read.5

Chairman Hill explained the procedure for the6

presentation and called Christopher Withrow of NC7

Virtual Academy to the podium.)8

Mr. Withrow: Good morning, committee9

members. We thank you for the opportunity to come and speak10

before you today. We look forward to this and we're very11

proud to be with you today to share the vision and the12

mission of North Carolina Virtual Academy.13

Before you on the screen is our mission statement14

that we have outlined within our application. The important15

highlights that I'd like to mention of our mission statement16

is that the purpose is to be an innovative school to provide17

different types of learning environments and technologies to18

students who may not have been exposed to these in the past.19

Additionally, we are--we as a board are going to20

hold ourselves as well as our management team accountable to21

all the state policies and procedures and accountability,22

which of course we will be accountable to the state of North23

Carolina according to the policies and procedures set forth24

by the Department of Public Instruction.25


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A brief history about North Carolina Virtual1

Academy: this process began roughly about seven years ago.2

In 2005 I was employed for a school district, Warren County3

Schools, as the chief technology officer. During that time--4

I had previously been a band director for Wayne County Public5

Schools, and so education of course has always been forefront6

of my mission.7

And while I was there, I looked at the way our8

learning was taking place in our school district and realized9

that we had some shortcomings. So I proposed to our board10

and our superintendent, "Let's try a different approach to11

working with our students. Let's create a virtual school."12

Now, we recognize that virtual education is13

definitely not going to work for every child. However, it's14

an opportunity for children who work in that type of environ-15

ment to excel and succeed.16

We had tremendous success in our--in our program.17

Based upon that success, we realized that, you know, it's not18

just Warren County Schools children that could benefit from19

this, but also all children in North Carolina. Hence we20

began the process of moving toward a virtual school21

application.22

So seven years ago, we put our first application23

in for a virtual school. Fast forward to about three years24

ago, realized the procedures and policies changed with our25


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General Assembly, we took the opportunity to apply again for1

a virtual school. We all came together to again present this2

opportunity to our children. We believe wholeheartedly there3

are children that can benefit from the options that are4

afforded by virtual education.5

As you can see, we are excited to be a part--or be6

considered for the virtual pilot. We definitely believe that7

two pilots--in the state of North Carolina two pilot virtual8

charter schools is a really good thing. It gives the state9

as well as the virtual school administrators an opportunity10

to study the successes and be able to report back any11

recommendations we have for the state department.12

So again, we look forward to collaboration with13

DPI. We have met with Philip Price and the DPI staff and Dr.14

Townsend and had a wonderful discussion that day about15

reporting, financial reporting and student data reporting,16

and realizing that there are changes with reporting in this17

different type of environment, but we definitely look forward18

to the collaboration of making this a successful experience.19

Chairman Hill: Okay. So Joel and Deanna are20

going to be capturing detailed notes. And after we go21

through the question and answer section, they will summarize22

the questions and the answers and then we'll move to the next23

topic. So with that said, I will open the floor for any24

member of this committee to ask questions about the mission,25


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purposes, and goals section of the application. Yes, ma'am.1

Committee Member: Why did you choose K12,2

Incorporated to partner with?3

Mr. Withrow: Well, based on my experience4

that I had with Quest Academy, which is the virtual school in5

Warren County Schools that I built in 2005, I've had exposure6

to a lot of different vendors. Some of those would include7

class.com, Adventa, Cambium Learning, Pearson, and so I've8

had experience with working with different providers.9

And so based on the size of K12, its strength and10

it being the lead largest provider of content and curriculum11

in virtual learning in America, based on the quality of the12

instruction they have and the alignment that they do, we felt13

like it was in the best interest of our school district to14

work with what we considered the industry leader.15

At the time, three years ago, we did--we were16

aware of Connections, which is owned by Pearson, the ones who17

make PowerSchool. They were operating in North Carolina, so18

we evaluated them. But we ended up working with K12 because19

we do believe that they are the number one vendor in the20

space.21

Chairman Hill: So the floor is open. I22

don't necessarily need to recognize you, but just let's be23

respectful of each other and let's not try to talk over each24

other. So any other questions around the mission, purpose,25


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and goals sections?1

(No response.)2

Chairman Hill: So let's move to the3

education planning section.4

Committee Member: Martez, I have a question.5

So the application calls for a description of the major6

instructional methods. So you talk about synchronous7

sessions, data, innovations in digital learning, direct8

instruction.9

But tell me, what exactly is going to be happening10

in the online classroom, like what is the teacher expected to11

do and what can the students and parents expect from inside12

the classroom? These things you've listed you've painted13

very globally, but I was wondering if you could describe it14

more specifically. What does it look like? What will the15

teachers be doing? What will the parents know the teachers16

are doing, et cetera?17

Mr. Withrow: Absolutely. And by the way,18

I would like to recognize also--and please forgive me for19

this. I would like to recognize the board members I have20

with me so when they respond, you will know who is speaking21

to you.22

We have Mr. Steve Moody, Mr. Travis Mitchell,23

Sarah (sic) Benbow. We also have online Sara Struhs. And24

our final board member--he's unavailable to be with us today.25


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He's sequestered on a naval base in California and is unable1

to attend. I'd also like to recognize in the gallery--there2

are parents here that are in support of both virtual charters3

and we'd like to recognize them as well.4

Regarding the educational plan, I would like to5

ask Mr. Travis Mitchell to speak on that. And probably for a6

more in-depth answer, we'll probably ask one of our7

consultants to help out as well.8

Mr. Mitchell: Thank you. To give you a9

high level overview of what a day looks like, the school day10

will reflect the plan that is described in the individualized11

learning plan, which is going to be assessment driven. So12

it's a data driven plan for each student.13

For most of the students it will include regular14

instructional sessions with a certified teacher in math,15

reading, and language arts, and these sessions will be daily16

sessions. The sessions will begin with a classroom of17

students, small group or one on one. Students are expected18

to spend roughly an hour each day in core--four core course19

areas and up to an hour a day in art, music, or a language or20

languages.21

The synchronous instruction time will complement22

the online lessons that students would receive and are23

expected to complete. Synchronous instructional sessions24

will be scheduled to fit into a routine, so they will vary25


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student by student, but there will be a routine.1

For instance, a student may have a small group2

math instruction at 9:30 a.m. three days a week, work on math3

independently one day a week, and receive tutoring one day a4

week. I'm going to ask our K12 representative, Mary, to5

speak a little bit more to a day in the life of a student.6

Ms. Gifford: Good morning. I think Travis7

really hit the highlights. But generally the individualized8

learning time will be developed upon enrollment. It's going9

to be based on prior assessments and other information such10

as attendance patterns, areas of success, areas where11

students are struggling. And that will drive what that day12

looks like, like Travis described. It's going to be the13

combination.14

The expectation is that kids will spend about an15

hour a day in each content area roughly. It's going to look16

a little differently student by student. If I'm a student17

who needs more help in math, I'm going to have more18

synchronous, more small group, and probably one-on-one19

tutoring with the math instructor. If I don't need help in20

math, but I need help in reading, I may have that kind of21

level of support in reading.22

There will be some synchronous and some23

asynchronous instruction. Everything is delivered up through24

the online school, which is kind of the nerve center. And25


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the nerve center will basically describe the sessions as well1

as the online content and offline content a student should2

do. Parents may help by looking at that a week at a time or3

a day at a time. And it really does lay out very4

specifically what they have to do to prep as well as what5

they will do independently and what they will do6

synchronously with an instructor.7

The teachers also plan their day with some office8

hours built in as well as time for grading. It's important9

that students receive regular feedback. When we survey10

families and students and ask them what would make them more11

successful in the online setting, universally they answer12

more feedback from teachers. And so within the teacher day,13

in addition to instructional time, tutoring time, there will14

be grading time. It's really important to provide that15

feedback.16

Committee Member: Well, my question is not17

really about the whole day. My question is about instruc-18

tional methods. So you both mentioned an hour a day in core,19

an hour a day in instruction. What is inside that hour?20

Like what is the student doing? Is it a lecture? Are we21

lecturing? Are we reading? Like what are we doing22

in that time?23

I don't want the whole day. I just want to know24

if you have key instructional strategies that every teacher--25


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or the secondary teachers will use these and the elementary1

teachers will use these. You know, what does it look like?2

Ms. Gifford: Yes, ma'am. So generally3

what should be happening is the best practices from a brick4

and mortar setting translated into a virtual setting. So if5

it were a one-on-one tutoring session, it would be about6

finding out where the student has gaps, which would be7

informed by an assessment.8

And so typically a student would take an assess-9

ment and I as an instructor would see where the student has10

not answered the assessment correctly. I would focus one-on-11

one tutoring, also small group instruction, in on those gaps.12

I would focus primarily on some of the areas that13

are most closely in line with the state standards or things14

that are cumulative in nature. If you think of math, having15

any singular gap is going to affect you downstream.16

And so the teachers would inform one on one as17

well as small group instruction based on regular assessments.18

We do develop customized pathways for students that involve19

regular assessments to drive that instruction.20

In a larger group, it would be very typical of21

what you would see in any effective online class. You would22

have a period of time where they are getting the students'23

attention, where they are introducing content, where they are24

checking for--checking whether or not the student understands25


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the content, reinforcing it. There are times when they are1

going to be using small groups within online sessions.2

Committee Member: These are synchronous---3

Ms. Gifford: (interposing) These would be4

synchronous, correct, synchronous--larger group synchronous.5

And a lot of that is, again, the teacher actually doing what6

is the steps of good instruction, getting their attention,7

introducing--you know, the intro set, checking for under-8

standing, the things you would normally do.9

The teachers go through training in advance of10

this to make sure that they understand how to manage a11

classroom in the virtual setting. And then additionally12

there will be many observations of teachers with instruc-13

tional coaches as well as the principal will observe the14

teachers, provide coaching to the teachers to make sure that15

those synchronous sessions are quality.16

Committee Member: How does this work for K-3?17

Ms. Gifford: So for K-3, it will depend on18

the reading ability of the student. The K1-2 curriculum19

specifically has things designed for emergent readers and20

they have a lot of offline materials as well. For instance,21

every K1-2 student gets a phonics tile kit. And so they22

have--they have a tile kit that has all of the different23

phonemes in it. A lot of the K through 3 in the home is not24

independent work. It is work driven by the learning coach at25


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home, which in many cases is the parent.1

The teacher will have different kinds of sessions2

that they do with the students, a lot of smaller group,3

listening to them learn to read, listening to how they're4

forming words, those kinds of things. It really will be very5

driven by the learning coach in the home, though, at K1-2.6

As they begin reading more, they become more independent.7

Committee Member: So it's less online, but you8

supply a lot of materials for those coaches to hopefully do9

the job you're assuming they're doing?10

Ms. Gifford: Yes, ma'am. And in fact11

while we talk a little about the online school kind of being12

the nerve center and driving the instruction, particularly in13

the lower grade levels, they will receive 40 to 60 pounds of14

materials, offline materials. And we really think it's15

important for them to be engaged in those offline materials16

in those earlier years.17

About 50 percent of their time would be spent18

online in those early grades and then in the middle19

elementary, it would be up into the 50 to 60 percent. By20

middle school it would be 60 to 70 percent, and then in high21

school it gets upward of 70 percent online. But in those22

lower levels they need to be offline in the stuff, if you23

will.24

Committee Member: So the parents you're saying25


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are typically the learning coaches in the home; is that1

correct?2

Ms. Gifford: Yes, ma'am. It's typical for3

a parent to be a learning coach.4

Committee Member: Well, what if the parent is5

not, you know, providing that role like they should be?6

Ms. Gifford: So if a parent is not--well,7

first of all we would hope that the parents would be8

committed to this. This is indeed a lifestyle choice. This9

is not for everyone. And particularly in the lower grade10

levels, it does require the engagement of a loving adult, in11

most cases a parent.12

And so during the enrollment process this is13

communicated very carefully to parents. The expectation of14

the parents in the lower grades indeed is very different than15

in the upper grades. And it is important that they have a16

learning coach there and that they agree that there will be17

some form of a learning coach available to the student during18

instructional time.19

Committee Member: How is that monitored?20

Ms. Gifford: If I may, the teachers will21

have conferences not just with the students, but with the22

learning coaches. And we do those conferences during23

instructional times to make sure that during the day the24

teacher--the learning coach is available to talk with the25


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teacher.1

You know, they may be home six hours a day, but it2

may not be while the student is learning. What the teacher3

will be trained to do is to affirm that the parents are4

available during that instructional time for the student.5

Ms. Nance: I have two questions. Do you6

allow your teachers to work for a traditional school system7

in a school at the same time they're working for you?8

Mr. Withrow: Ms. Nance, the instructors9

that we will hire, they will be full-time instructors for10

North Carolina Virtual Academy.11

Ms. Nance: Okay. And my second question12

is--it's really about EC or exceptional children. I'm having13

difficulty understanding--what you're saying is a lot of your14

students will choose this type of education because they are15

not traditional students. They have other things going on.16

And a lot of those students would need IEPs and 504s.17

And some of the--sort of explain to me how you're18

going to meet those needs and then how you're going to19

provide all the compliance information that the EC department20

for DPI requires.21

Mr. Withrow: Well, I think all of our22

students, not just the EC students, will have an IEP. So23

every single one--we will have a structured plan for every24

one of them. We are committed with EC in handling the EC25


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children. Yes, we do expect a good supply to come in,1

whether they have anything from cyberbullying to they're2

preparing to go to the Olympics and they need a different3

time to work.4

But with EC, we will hire certified people who are5

EC trained and qualified, and these experts will be the ones6

who will handle the evaluations of the children. They will7

be the ones who will be responsible for creating the plans of8

how to deliver the education to them. I believe that maybe9

you could address that more in depth.10

Committee Member: Well, I have one easy11

question. How do you evaluate a student?12

Mr. Withrow: Well, we---13

Committee Member: (interposing) If you're14

doing home school and students who haven't been in a15

traditional school system or currently in private schools,16

they have not been--have not been analyzed by anybody to see17

if they qualify for federal funds.18

Mr. Withrow: That is absolutely true, and19

that's part of the initial process with Child Find, which is20

a federal requirement. We will perform Child Find on every21

single child every single year to determine what needs and22

services they may need. So far as--but assessments, you23

mentioned that.24

The children will be taking benchmark tests. We25


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will do initial assessments. We have the Study Island1

assessments. They also will be required to take any EOC and2

EOG assessments that's required.3

Committee Member: I understand that. I guess4

what I'm feeling is a little bit with some of those special5

children, somebody really needs to go in and look at them and6

give the tests and--do you have some way that you're doing7

that? Do you contract with people or what do you do?8

Mr. Withrow: Yes, ma'am. Let me---9

Committee Member: Okay.10

Ms. Gifford: Yes, ma'am. So the process11

really starts upon enrollment, and Child Find should start at12

the point of enrollment. And so the teachers will be trained13

on Child Find. The regular education teachers will be14

trained on Child Find. And that will be a combination of15

observations they have in their virtual classroom, telephonic16

conversations, and then observations at kind of like the17

beginning of the school year, events and things, where they18

can observe students.19

During the enrollment process, families will be20

asked if they've ever received services or if they currently21

are under a current--an IEP. Those documents will be22

collected and reviewed. An IEP team--for students who have23

existing IEPs, an IEP will be--team will be convened to see24

if a new IEP that reflects the virtual setting.25


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For instance, if an IEP currently contains1

extended time, in the virtual setting that might look a2

little bit different than it does in a brick and mortar3

setting because the virtual setting is mastery based and not4

necessarily time bound.5

So an IEP team will be convened. A special6

education teacher will be assigned to every student as well7

as a regular education teacher for a student who has a8

current IEP. The IEP will be convened. They will get their9

procedural safeguards notifications in the mail like you10

would traditionally. Typically that IEP meeting would be11

convened in a synchronous classroom session, so it would be12

online. Some of the IEPs would be convened face to face.13

Related service providers would be looped in,14

school psychologists if the students need evaluations, if15

their evaluations are out of date. There will be contracted16

related service providers across the state that would do the17

appropriate evaluations in a face-to-face setting because18

that's the most effective way to assess those students. And19

that information would be fed into that IEP team and would20

inform the IEP decision.21

The related services might go on, you know, during22

the school year. It may be that they need accommodations in23

the classroom, which would be something the special education24

teacher and the regular education teacher have to25


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accommodate.1

They may be a student who has a physical dis-2

ability who would need some form of assistive technology.3

They may need a translator--because they have some form of a4

visual impairment, they may need an audio translator. They5

may need a very large keyboard if they are visually impaired.6

So there will be different kinds of assistive technologies7

that will be a part of this.8

So kind of to serve these students well, it starts9

with enrollment. It starts with a lot of evaluation and10

assessment, regular ed professional, special ed professional,11

related service professionals, and then assistive technology12

to make sure that the students' full range of needs are being13

met.14

Committee Member: And to follow up on that, one15

of the things that's very difficult for charter schools is to16

keep up with all the compliance that's required by the17

federal government so that you can receive the federal funds.18

How do you--what do you have in place to make sure that you19

have that done?20

Ms. Gifford: So there are few things that21

will be in place. There is a database that tracks every22

single student that has a 504 plan or a special ed IEP. As23

Chris mentioned, everyone is going to have an individualized24

learning plan that's additionally tracked.25


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But for the students that fall into those two1

categories, there is a database and a software system that2

will be used that actually tracks the required related3

services: is it 30 minutes a week, is it 40 minutes a week,4

who is the assigned provider, are they doing it, when is5

their annual evaluation, have we had the discussion about6

extended school year. All of those things that are7

compliancy requirements are a part of that.8

Additionally, we'll be using some software that is9

unique to North Carolina that drives what needs to be in the10

IEPs, the behavioral plans and things like that.11

Committee Member: Who puts all that information12

into the data because it's the classroom teacher, I think,13

that is dealing mostly with the students. Is that who is14

putting it in there, the information?15

Ms. Gifford: It will depend on--it will16

depend on who the school chooses to give access to it. A lot17

of the information--there will be, particularly in grades K18

through 3, a lot of students who are receiving speech only.19

And so the related service provider would be the one putting20

that in there.21

The regular ed teacher, the special ed teacher,22

and any related service providers will certainly have read23

access. They all need to know what's going on with that24

student at any point in time.25


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The people who need to be providing input will1

have write access as well. If they are requiring accommoda-2

tions within the classroom, then yes, the regular ed teacher3

should be entering those. If the special ed teacher is4

providing more of those accommodations, the special education5

teacher would enter those. So it really depends on what is6

driven by that IEP.7

Ms. Nance: Okay. And I just have lots8

of questions, but this is--I don't know that you have an9

answer for this one. I actually run a charter high school10

and I have students who sometimes take online classes in the11

summer, and they do much better in the summer on those than12

they do in the classroom. But we're concerned that they have13

someone helping them so much with that class that it's not a14

true picture of what's happening for that child. I don't15

know if you have any way of monitoring that kind of a16

situation.17

And then I know you have regional centers where18

they go do the testing. And I just wondered how difficult it19

is for people to get--to really make that happen. You have a20

lot of ideas and they're good ideas. I think where I21

struggle is how much they can actually be implemented.22

Ms. Gifford: That's a fabulous question.23

Good teaching is good teaching, and so what good teachers are24

going to be doing is having those students in a lot of25


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synchronous sessions, whether one on one, small group, or1

classroom based, and actually require student participation,2

checking for knowledge. And again, even if it's a large3

classroom session--if I have 20 students in my Algebra I4

class, if I am conducting that class appropriately, I will be5

checking for understanding with the students.6

The web based classroom has a polling function.7

It has the ability to call on students individually. The8

equipment the students will be using will include a micro-9

phone so that they can be interactive with the teacher. So I10

think it starts with good instruction and the teacher11

checking for understanding along the way, irrespective of12

what kind of session it is.13

I think also teacher feedback. When teachers read14

material--teachers are pretty well trained on what is student15

driven and what is not. To be extra safe, there is a web16

based software called Turnitin. All short answer essays or17

long essays are run through Turnitin to verify that the18

student has not plagiarized, but the teacher feedback is19

going to be important.20

Phases of work for students--all phases of work21

for students--you know, I think the teachers will be very22

well trained on this, and it is something that good teachers23

can pick up on. And again, it really relates to that engage-24

ment. If the student is engaged with the teacher, the25


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student is going to do his own work and the teacher will be1

able to see that it's his own work.2

The ultimate backstop, however, will be the end of3

instruction assessments since those are offered in a4

proctored setting, and that really will be what determines if5

the student has mastered the content.6

Committee Member: I'd like to revisit the EC7

situation because I do feel like you will have some EC8

parents that think this will be a good fit for them for9

various reasons, you know.10

And I know how difficult it is to make sure that11

you're implementing that to the degree of the law, and I feel12

like you've had the experience in other states. Can you tell13

me how you have served other EC students effectively to14

provide a free and appropriate education in the least15

restrictive environment, and are there any outstanding issues16

or concerns or complaints that you've had and how you've17

dealt with those.18

Ms. Gifford: So generally the special19

education population in the virtual academies across the20

country who partner with K12, the percentage runs slightly21

above the state percentages usually. It's usually 13 to 1422

percent enrolled in the virtual academies compared to usually23

like 11, 12 percent for a state average.24

We do track them as a subgroup, as we're required25


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to for state testing. They do also--we give surveys to the1

families. We want to understand if their related services2

were provided timely and things like that. We also make sure3

that we are actively participating in monitorings. I think,4

you know, almost every one of the virtual academies across5

the country is part of a seven year federal monitoring that6

happens at some point in time.7

Most state departments of ed are on a two to three8

year cycle for monitorings, and so those happen in some9

states. I think of Arizona, for instance. Child Find is10

something that is audited annually. Every single 45 day11

screening is touched by an auditor to ensure that it was done12

timely and done completely.13

So I think that there is evidence on the14

compliancy side from state and federal departments of ed and15

independent auditors. I think there is also evidence16

externally from student performance as a subgroup on state17

standardized assessments.18

As far as how we do, these students typically stay19

at a longer rate. When we look at withdrawal rates of all20

students, the special education students typically stay a21

little bit longer than regular education students. And we do22

generally serve students from pretty much all of the23

different disability categories. There will be fewer in24

some. A lot of them, again, are speech only. A lot of them25


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are SLD students, a high percentage of autistic students.1

We do very effective--we're very effective at2

having related service provision in the behavioral coaching3

area and also in parent training in the behavioral coaching4

area. And having the students in the home sometimes is a5

very good solution, but it does require a true behavioral6

coach for the parent then as well as for the student. And7

that is one of those related service providers that is8

recruited immediately, because again, we will get a lot of9

students in the autism spectrum. Any other specific10

things---11

Committee Member: (interposing) Do you ever12

feel like you need to recommend an alternative placement for13

a student? Have you had those situations?14

Ms. Gifford: There have been a couple of15

cases where there have been recommended alternative16

placements, that the IEP team has recommended alternative17

placement.18

It is rather rare, but it is somewhat--in some19

states where the schools are not run--I think of like for20

instance California where the virtual schools run under the21

independent study law. And there are some different22

categories there in different things. It is not a true open23

charter--open enrollment charter school like in many states.24

In California there may be some cases of that because they25


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operate actually under a different law. They operate under1

the independent study law, which has some different2

restrictions.3

Committee Member: So did you have some diffi-4

culty in California with that? I mean---5

Ms. Gifford: (interposing) Actually,6

there are no difficulties in California. There was--there7

was a series of complaints filed by the teachers union, not8

parents and students and not teachers teaching at the school,9

but by the teachers union. And the department of education10

summarily dismissed every single one of the complaints within11

two weeks of receipt.12

Chairman Hill: Yes, sir.13

Mr. Davis: A couple of questions. First14

one, going back to Dr. Colbert's, you described what a15

typical day looks like. What do you have in place for16

students that don't meet the expectations that you have of an17

hour per day per core, that are not meeting the expectations18

of time spent?19

Having worked with virtual public schools, I see20

that it's not for every student and I see that there are21

students that really do struggle with being self motivated to22

meet those expectations.23

Mr. Mitchell: I think one of the beautiful24

things about the pilot season that we're entering in with25


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proctors, meeting the EC accommodations, 504 accommodations.1

Could you please address how you'll conduct state testing?2

Ms. Gifford: Thank you. So state testing3

is something that I believe K12 has as a core competency in4

many states. Departments of education will actually use the5

testing plans that we develop with our partner schools as6

samples for other virtual schools, and they routinely7

evaluate and come on site.8

It starts with good planning in the beginning.9

Again, if we have all the information in that special10

education database, we will know which students need11

accommodations or not.12

It also starts with mapping where the students13

live. And this is something that feeds in as soon as--14

teacher hiring as well. Once students enroll, you look at15

the map across the state and try to hire teachers in close16

proximity to where the students live. That will become17

important because they will also be the test proctors.18

And so the testing plan goes into place, you know,19

way before school starts, as soon as we start knowing where20

students are enrolling. The sites are planned based on the21

numbers of kids needed. Additional sites may be planned or22

the layout of a plan may be planned--laid out based on23

accommodations that are necessary.24

With respect to test security, there will be a25


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test coordinator that will be hired by the principal. The1

test coordinator will ensure the training of all of the2

proctors, the signing of the oaths, and things like that.3

That person will also be ultimately responsible for the4

security of the materials, both secure and nonsecure testing5

materials.6

There will be close inventories. There will be7

training as to where they may be housed. They may not be8

housed in your garage, for instance, things like that. They9

will have very close descriptions of that.10

We also need to in the virtual setting think a11

whole lot about students' safety and security. These are12

students who are not typically in settings like this on a13

day-to-day basis. And in many cases the parent will be14

dropping the student off and then picking the student up. So15

we have things like security bracelets for the students and16

things like that to make sure that we're thinking of student17

security as well.18

You know, test materials, the secure and nonsecure19

materials, are returned on kind of a chain of custody kind of20

approach where we have documents that travel with every21

single box of materials that describe exactly who had custody22

of it at what time and in what way was it taken care of. It23

is--it is a logistical orchestra, it is something wonderful24

to watch, and it is a core competency.25


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We also have a software that is described in the1

charter application. We call it--it's called Testing2

Nirvana, and it indeed is Nirvana. It does allow us to track3

where every single student is with respect to testing4

responsibilities.5

I would know--if I was a teacher in a testing6

center and I was short two students in third grade writing to7

hit my 95 percent mark, I would know that instantaneously8

with a very interactive dashboard so that the people in the9

school office would work to find those two students who need10

to get to testing, also very good for security of students.11

So between good planning in the beginning, hiring12

teachers in the right places, planning the sites, and then13

ensuring that the data is in the databases, both the special14

ed database as well as the Testing Nirvana database, to15

ensure that the students are in the right places at the right16

time in taking assessments.17

Chairman Hill: So Committee Members, we can18

circle back if you have additional questions under the19

education plan section. But I want to ensure that we spend20

sufficient time looking at governance, capacity, operations,21

and financial planning.22

Committee Member: Could I ask one question23

before we leave it?24

Chairman Hill: Yes, ma'am.25


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Committee Member: Okay, because it's kind of1

big here. You know, I know it's different dealing with2

behavioral issues and discipline and suspensions, that sort3

of nature with virtual. So how are you going to ensure due4

process when you're dealing with a student with a suspension?5

How have you done that or how do you plan to deal with that6

in North Carolina--suspension and/or expulsion?7

Ms. Gifford: So I'd like to do two things,8

if I may, one assuming a general ed student and one assuming9

a special education student. If the student is special10

education, there will be a manifestation hearing and the11

things that would normally have to happen before it could go12

to a suspension or an expulsion process. The governing board13

is the ultimate arbiter of who stays in that school or not.14

And so the policies that the board will adopt will describe15

what is expected for an engagement perspective.16

I believe it will be informed by the work that the17

board does with DPI and Philip Price here regarding18

attendance and what attendance looks like in the virtual19

setting. I think that is still being decided. Once that is20

firmly decided, it will be put in the board's policy manual.21

Families will be made aware of it. There will be escalation22

paths in there. I think Travis described a little bit of23

working to get them more engaged should they not be engaged.24

But if they--if all of those attempts fail and25


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it's well documented, then there will be a suspension hearing1

or an expulsion hearing depending on what the board would2

like at the board level. And that would be an in-person3

hearing, and the board would have to--for convenience sake,4

we would figure how to get the board to the place most5

convenient to the student. It can't be a hardship to the6

student and the family to attend. But I imagine that those7

will actually be quite rare, especially given the law that is8

associated with the pilot where the parent has to kind of9

declare intent for enrolling.10

I think that there will be a lot that happens on11

the front end regarding setting expectations and then again12

following the policies that are determined for attendance.13

But the board will be the ultimate arbiter and they'll have14

policies in their handbooks.15

Chairman Hill: Okay. So let's move to16

governance and capacity. Are there any questions from17

committee members?18

Ms. Nance: Well, I can start. I don't19

mean to hog the questions. I just have a charter school, so20

I kind of understand some of the things that you're facing.21

And one of the things I see and was a little22

confused about is you have a principal and an executive23

director. Can you explain their roles and some of their--in24

one place the salary was there and then in another--for one25


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and not for the other and--anyway, share.1

Mr. Withrow: Sure. Ms. Nance, I would say2

that the information for the salaries for both is listed in3

the budget. Unfortunately, when the information was uploaded4

to the template or the web based system, the numbers got5

shifted in different locations.6

And you'll see for example in the printed document7

on page 109, that entire section is missing from the online8

web portion even though it was submitted. So there will be9

places that--the information was submitted. You just don't10

see it because it's not there through the web based system.11

Ms. Nance: Okay.12

Mr. Withrow: But I would like to ask Mr.13

Moody if he would discuss the executive director and14

principal differentiation.15

Chairman Hill: And I'll remind everyone,16

please pull the mic up to the mouth.17

Mr. Moody: Okay. Thank you. We see the18

executive director as the leader, the leader of the charter19

school, the face of the charter school, the liaison with the20

Office of Charter Schools, the person who makes sure that the21

policies of the board are complied with and are implemented22

and that financial controls are met and the budget is23

followed and all of those areas.24

And the principal works to implement the education25


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service provider's plan and works with the teachers, training1

and managing the staff and helping them provide the education2

services to the individual students.3

Mr. Withrow: I'd also like to add that one4

of the differences is the fact that the executive director5

will be an employee of the board. The principal will be an--6

be hired by the service provider.7

It's the--the board is really concerned about8

making sure that compliance is met, that all policies and9

procedures are followed. We realize that the teachers that10

we hire are going to be teachers of--employees of the board.11

They're not going to be employees of the service provider, so12

it's important that the board has governance over all aspects13

to assure compliancy and all regulations are followed. And14

so that's really one of the key purposes of the executive15

directors. They must manage the day to day to take care of16

all these responsibilities.17

Ms. Nance: So I'm hearing you say the18

executive director is hired by the board, and the--everybody19

else is hired by the--K12; right? No?20

Mr. Withrow: No, ma'am. The executive21

director--the executive director and the teachers will be22

employees of the board.23

Ms. Nance: Okay.24

Mr. Withrow: (interposing) The25


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administrators---1

Ms. Nance: (interposing) I'm sorry. I2

get confused.3

Mr. Withrow: That's okay. And the4

administrators will be the employees of the service provider.5

Ms. Nance: Okay. Okay. And then--so6

the ultimate responsibility for the school other than the7

board is that executive director, and they report to you?8

Mr. Withrow: Yes.9

Ms. Nance: Okay.10

Chairman Hill: Any other questions regarding11

governance or capacity?12

(No response.)13

Chairman Hill: Let's move to operations.14

Committee Member: I have a question regarding15

transportation. And I've heard a lot of different situations16

where, you know, a family may have to transport to an17

assessment center or they may have to be transported for a18

hearing. And then I was reading about some virtual clubs and19

field trips and whatnot. Can you tell me how transportation20

is going to be handled because a lot of these families will21

have difficulty with that.22

Mr. Withrow: Right. Well, primarily we23

are expecting that parents will be in participation of the24

transportation and we will provide a web site where parents25


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can sign up for carpooling. We'll have social media sites1

for the parents, not the students, to coordinate this.2

We are committed that every student is not going3

to be challenged to get to a location. And having said that,4

we have made provisions in our plan. In our budget plan on5

page 114, we have several categories that we address6

financially how to assist students who are challenged in7

getting back and forth to locations.8

One of the things we're fortunate is our service9

provider being so large as they are and having a presence in10

so many states, they already have experience dealing with11

hardships with transportation. So we are committed that if12

it's necessary that we provide some form of transportation13

that it will be provided for, including up to if a child has14

multiple day testing, for example an EOC, if it's a hardship,15

that we will definitely make accommodations for them to have16

overnight arrangements.17

We're also committed to having locations very18

close to where the children are at. We would not expect a19

child from Haywood County to drive all the way to Boone,20

North Carolina to take a test. So we will be having our21

locations close by.22

But ultimately we are committed to if a child has23

a hardship for transportation, we have made provisions in our24

budget, again, on page 114. And we also have a provision on25


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page 113 that addresses that specifically.1

In the event, which we don't anticipate, but if--2

in the event that we run short on those funds, we do have a3

3 percent surplus in our budget that we can also reallocate4

funds also. Also--Mr. Moody, anything you would like to add?5

Mr. Moody: That pretty much covers it.6

Ms. Nance: Okay.7

Chairman Hill: Please.8

Ms. Nance: I just have to ask questions9

because it's hard for me to understand things sometimes. And10

under Facility, you have a 3,000 square foot building in11

North Carolina that serves as the administrative offices.12

And I'm not a technology person, so Mr. Davis might can help13

me. But anyway, all the infrastructure for doing this and14

all the world of IT stuff, where is that located?15

Mr. Withrow: Right. You're correct. We16

will have a 3,000 square foot, or generally that size, space17

that will be located in Wayne County in the area of18

Goldsboro. And that will act as our administrative facility,19

a place to store materials. It can also be used as a testing20

site.21

From the technology standpoint, that will be22

provided by our service provider. And they have two23

locations, one in Virginia. And they have an external,24

off-site location in case of a hurricane, disaster, wherever25


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and Guilford.1

Mr. Withrow: Well, so far as the choice of2

one county, you're right. I am the board chair and I do live3

there. And the board recognizes that we absolutely want to4

have our hand on this--this school.5

However, we also realize that our--we can accept6

students from any county in North Carolina. So the location7

really was part of the governance, but it's also that we8

recognize that eastern North Carolina is underutilized or9

represented in the charter situation.10

However, when it came to the three schools that we11

listed, or three school districts in the application, that12

was really a function of the web based application form.13

They only allow us to put in three districts. We could14

have--if the form had allowed, we could have made up a15

simulation of every school district in North Carolina.16

Unfortunately, we only had to choose three.17

And based on our evaluations, based upon our18

polling data, these districts theoretically could provide the19

most students of any of the counties. So we chose those to20

make our simulation out of what a typical 1500 student load21

would come from.22

But the reality is we do anticipate that all--any23

child in any county in North Carolina can apply. And we24

definitely don't expect, as it shows in the application, 61525


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students are coming from Wake County because that would be1

overrepresented.2

Chairman Hill: Let's move to the financial3

plan section.4

(Pause.)5

Chairman Hill: Any questions?6

Committee Member: Do y'all have any kind of7

partnering or anything that's ever done with a local school8

system to support them in any way while you're doing what9

you're doing? I mean some charter schools do community10

service and different kinds of things with the area they're11

located.12

Mr. Withrow: I would say that we would13

definitely explore those type opportunities. Since we're not14

a functioning charter school yet, we have not broached those15

arrangements. But definitely we are willing to work with16

other school districts as well, and for that matter17

Communities in Schools, any other type of volunteer18

organizations, civic groups, and whatnot, any way that would19

benefit our students. I would like to ask Mr. Mitchell to20

jump in on it because that's an area of his expertise.21

Mr. Mitchell: Once again, I think we have a22

wonderful opportunity to create a collaborative environment.23

Because this is a pilot program, it is vitally important that24

we include as many stakeholders across the state as possible.25


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So what we think is vitally important is that we fan out1

across the state and that we begin to have conversations,2

meaningful conversations, about what collaboration could look3

like.4

There is a great opportunity for us to not only5

engage school districts, but also those school districts that6

have partnerships with grassroots organizations. In order7

for us to serve the unique needs of our students, the program8

delivery is one piece. Addressing academic needs is another9

piece. But we really want to make sure that we address the10

whole student.11

And in order to address the whole student, we've12

got to have other resource partners at the table to help--to13

help undergird the academic experience. Just because it is a14

virtual environment does not mean that unique needs of the15

students completely go away.16

So we want to make sure to engage the stakeholders17

who are working with those students where they may be, the18

school districts that are accustomed to dealing with students19

in a particular geographic area, and then creating a map that20

shows the overlay of those service organizations against21

where our student populations are coming from.22

Committee Member: Is that being done anywhere23

else, any other schools that this--this company--from K1224

that's partnered?25


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Mr. Mitchell: I believe there's a very1

unique partnership in Arizona. I believe there are 20 plus2

YMCA, boys and girls clubs, and other community organizations3

that are in partnership with the statewide charter. I think4

it's a wonderful model for North Carolina.5

Committee Member: I'm guessing somebody on the6

phone wants to ask a question, maybe.7

Chairman Hill: So if you're listening in,8

you may need to take us off of speakerphone because we can9

hear---10

Committee Member: (interposing) Or did they11

want to ask a question?12

Chairman Hill: ---the pushback, the13

flowback, of if you have any questions, please chime in.14

Committee Member: I have a small question about15

the budget with health insurance. I notice that for the16

administrator the health insurance is $12,000 a year, but for17

the teachers it's like $6,000 a year. But the teachers are18

full-time employees; correct? So why is there a big19

difference there?20

Mr. Withrow: You're correct. The teachers21

are full-time employees just like the executive director is.22

I'm trying to find that line item where you're saying that23

the salary differentiation is different.24

Committee Member: I believe it's on page 121,25


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health insurance $12,000 under Administrative for one person1

it says, but $6,000---2

Mr. Withrow: All right. What Mr. Mitchell3

was explaining to me was the fact that it is--it is a4

percentage of the salary is what--if I understood correctly.5

Committee Member: The health insurance is?6

Mr. Mitchell: It's just a pro forma7

percentage of the salary. That's the delta. So the8

executive director's salary is higher, and so what was9

attributed against it was a projected cost of insurance at10

the percentage rate.11

Committee Member: I have a question about class12

size. Could you--could you discuss your understanding of13

what the class size max and mins are?14

Mr. Withrow: Well, as we've stated in our15

charter application that in the lower grades we are expecting16

no greater than--which is based on also the state law--that17

50 children per teacher or 50 students per teacher. And then18

at our high school grades it's 150 to 1 teacher ratio.19

Committee Member: Well, help me understand.20

Does that mean one teacher to 150 students at one time or is21

it one teacher to 30 students per section or---22

Mr. Withrow: Yeah. Essentially the 150--23

that does not mean they will be all at one time. Just like24

in a traditional semester based school, you're going to have25


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is the teacher will be able to see the student. The student1

will be able to see the teacher. The students will not see2

each other---3

Committee Member: (interposing) Each other.4

Ms. Gifford: ---for security purposes.5

Additionally, there is the ability to have students inter-6

acting. If I am having them write an essay, for instance,7

and they are in the outline phase where they're doing their8

web map, their mapping of ideas, I would put them in little9

breakout rooms. I would have three kids in a breakout room.10

And as the teacher, I would be able to see the little groups11

of three and I would be able to see what they're doing.12

I would give them whiteboard privileges. They13

would be writing for each other. They would be talking with14

each other real time. I would be able to listen to what15

they're saying. I would be able to see what they're saying16

and I would cause them to interact with each other.17

And then I'd pull the whole class back together,18

all 20 of them back together, and I would have them reporting19

out to each other on what they did, you know, just basically20

converting good teaching practices from the brick and mortar21

setting into a virtual setting.22

Ms. Nance: In that chat room is there23

discussion through writing, though? It's not through verbal?24

Ms. Gifford: There is both, ma'am.25


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Ms. Nance: And verbal?1

Ms. Gifford: Yes, both verbal and writing,2

yes.3

Ms. Nance: Okay.4

Ms. Gifford: Yes.5

Chairman Hill: Okay.6

Committee Member: I have a couple of questions.7

I read--and I hate to go back to the educational plan, but I8

have something under education and governance real quickly.9

There were several things in the educational plan10

that referred to "We may offer" or "We plan to offer." So11

some of them were kind of gray whether you're going to offer,12

you will offer, or they're just kind of maybes. That13

language was in there a lot. Can you tell me why?14

Ms. Gifford: So if I may, the application15

has very clearly outlined what is minimally required. I16

think that what we've heard from the board is that they want17

options depending on what that student population looks like.18

They're expecting certain kinds of students to19

come, and so they are thinking that they may need more credit20

recovery options. They may need a secondary occupational21

course therapy--or course selection immediately rather than22

in year two.23

There's some of this that they are going to phase24

in. I think what we have heard from them is they have the25


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meeting monthly or quarterly? I was not clear. I think it1

mentioned both in there.2

Mr. Withrow: It is. It is both mentioned3

in there. Minimally, there is a call for at least a4

quarter--once per quarter. However, we are also stating that5

during the regular school cycle we will be meeting every6

month.7

Committee Member: And where will you be8

meeting, in Wayne County?9

Mr. Withrow: We're not--we haven't worked10

out that part of it yet. It could be online, you know, a11

virtual meeting, which also would allow the parents to12

participate virtually as well. The board members, as you can13

see demographically, are scattered across the entire state,14

so it could be a virtual meeting with parents virtually15

involved and of course any member of the public for that16

matter.17

Chairman Hill: Okay.18

Committee Member: Just one final--oh, I'm19

sorry. Go.20

Mr. Davis: I'm curious as to why you21

chose to do a K-12 school as opposed to a 9-12 school, which22

might be more comfortable for people understanding virtual23

education. Not to sound argumentative, but elementary24

virtual school sounds almost like public funded home25


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schooling.1

Mr. Mitchell: I'm not sure this is a very2

academic response, but I do know that digital natives are3

early adopters of the digital space. My own experiences with4

children have been that the use of mobile devices--if we're5

going to do it as a pilot project, we also have to look at6

the baseline assumptions that we're making.7

We know that kids from grades K through 3 are8

using digital devices more than ever before. To get good9

data off year one, I think it's important to adjust learning10

styles and the delivery of the program to that incoming11

kindergarten population. From there we can get12

baseline data on engagement and usage.13

Chairman Hill: One last question.14

Committee Member: One final question that I15

have. Okay. So--and again, you know, we read lots of16

things, so this is your chance to dispel any rumors or17

mistruths, whatever.18

Can you tell me if you have been terminated--in19

fact terminated by states, and if so, how many? You know, we20

hear rumors of three, four, five different states who either21

have terminated or are working to terminate relationship with22

K12, and that's concerning.23

Mr. Withrow: I guess what I would say to24

you is that K12 has not functioned in the state of North25


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Carolina nor has our charter as of yet.1

Committee Member: Right.2

Mr. Withrow: We are of course asking for a3

positive response from you-all, so we don't have that4

experience. However, I know that there has been other5

experiences that K12 has experienced, and one of their6

representatives is here and they probably could address that7

because I can't discuss how North Carolina's is because8

they've not been utilized yet.9

Committee Member: Yeah. I'd like to hear about10

K12 and their relationship in other states, if they've been11

terminated or are in the process of being so.12

Ms. Gifford: Yes, ma'am. There are no13

charters that have been revoked that we have been partnered14

with a nonprofit charter board. Nonprofit charter boards15

have not terminated contracts. There are a handful of16

contracts that have not renewed. And rather than continue as17

managing the school, K12 has continued as a curriculum18

provider.19

Like in Colorado, for instance, K12 still has20

three schools that it manages in Colorado and one school that21

it provides the curriculum to, but that contract was not22

terminated. It was--it was shifted from a management23

contract to a curriculum contract. But there are no24

contracts that have been terminated, nor any charters that25


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have been revoked.1

Committee Member: Okay, so not charters2

revoked, but are there states that are ending services with3

K12 as a service provider?4

Ms. Gifford: K12 does not provide managed5

services to states. We partner with---6

Committee Member: (interposing) Well, with---7

Ms. Gifford: (interposing) I'm sorry; so8

we partner with districts or with charter schools. And so at9

this point the states have not terminated those either.10

There is discussion of potential ending of a--not a charter11

school, but a district program in Tennessee at the end of the12

year, but the law actually sunsets. And so on June 30th of13

2015, the virtual law in Tennessee sunsets. And so that14

school could be closed if that--if that legislation is not15

continued.16

Mr. Withrow: I'd also like to add, if I17

may, as I saw Mr. Medley with his red card--I did want to18

also let committee members know that we are--the board is19

very committed to working with you and making this a20

successful experience.21

Dr. Townsend sent us the rubric on this past22

Thursday, and the board has pored over the questions that23

you-all had and we have worked on responses to them and would24

love to give them to you when this session is over. We want25


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to show you we are making the commitment that, you know, we1

will do everything we can to make this the most successful2

school in North Carolina.3

Chairman Hill: I have one final question.4

Could you--the K12 representative--could you elaborate in5

terms of the difference between being a management organiza-6

tion versus a curriculum provider? And could you also7

address any challenges and successes that you may have had in8

Pennsylvania?9

Ms. Gifford: Absolutely, Martez. So K1210

provides management and curriculum services typically to11

charter schools, but to some districts, like as in the case12

of Tennessee. And that is where K12 has the responsibility13

for, you know, recommending policies and actually getting14

things done day to day in the school.15

K12 also provides curriculum to over 2,000 school16

districts and charter schools across the state (sic). There17

are roughly between 40 and 50 charter schools where we have a18

management relationship, but there are like 2,000 where K1219

provides courses to them. And it could range from a couple20

of courses to full-time courses, but K12 does not have21

responsibility for managing, making policy recommendations,22

or anything like that. So that is kind of the two different23

buckets that it falls into.24

With respect to Pennsylvania, the charter is up25


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for renewal for one of our managed schools in Pennsylvania.1

We have two schools we manage in Pennsylvania, and one of2

them is up for renewal at the end of this fiscal year.3

And that school board is very responsible and went4

through a very detailed RFP process for all of the different5

components of the school, not just management, but all the6

components of the school. And they have awarded eight7

different contracts to different vendors for different parts8

of running a school.9

K12 was awarded the curriculum contract for that10

school moving forward beginning July 1 of 2015, providing the11

charter is renewed. So all of this coincided with the normal12

chain of events that happens when a charter is up for13

renewal. They went through an RFP process in advance of the14

charter being renewed, and K12 will be the curriculum15

provider pursuant to that RFP moving forward.16

Chairman Hill: Okay. Thank you. Thank you17

very much. I would like to spend some time receiving a18

summary review and allow the committee to discuss what your19

pleasure may be in terms of making a recommendation to the20

state board. So let's spend maybe five to ten minutes and21

then call the roll in terms of what the recommendation may22

be, so Deanna?23

Dr. Townsend-Smith: Okay. So during the24

discussion there were concerns raised on if K12 had been25


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terminated in any state. Specific questions were raised1

about the incident in PA.2

In the mission, purposes, and goals section there3

were questions regarding the reasons for choosing the4

particular EMO and on who helped to write the application.5

There were also questions directed on the rationale for6

opening K-12 instead of 9-12.7

In the education plan section, the committee8

discussed the instructional method and strategies concerning9

what the teacher does and student activities. There were10

numerous EC concerns raised as well as how the educational11

plan will work for K-3 students. Implementation of ideas12

proposed seems difficult and needs further clarity.13

Questions were directed to the applicant group to address the14

concerns.15

State testing compliance was explored during the16

interview to understand how the school will comply with17

testing requirements for the state. Additionally, concerns18

were raised on the process and procedures of suspension and19

expulsion of students. The applicant group was also asked20

questions regarding the areas of the application where they21

stated that they may offer certain services.22

In governance and capacity the role of the23

executive director and the principal was explored. There24

were also questions raised on where and how often the board25


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would meet to oversee the school.1

In operations there were transportation concerns2

regarding transporting students to testing centers and other3

locations. The facility cost and technology infrastructure4

with the location for both were raised in addition to backup,5

if there was a breakdown in communication due to a storm, et6

cetera. There were also questions raised on why the7

particular location was chosen surrounding the rationale of8

the districts chosen within the application.9

And finally, in the financial plan the partner-10

ships were questioned, if the applicant group had formed11

partnerships to involve stakeholders. There was a question12

asked regarding the disparity between the administrator and13

teacher health insurance differences in the budget. Class14

size minimum clarifications was a question of the group, and15

clarification on how students would interact with students--16

how students would interact with each other in different ways17

was also explored.18

Chairman Hill: Okay. I'll open the floor19

for any additional questions or comments.20

Ms. Nance: I actually have a question of21

DPI, and I don't know if that's you, Martez, or Joel. Has22

anybody looked at what it will cost DPI to be able to audit23

these students actually being in wherever they're supposed to24

be and doing their thing? I know when they do our school,25


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they make visits. They come see the students in the seats.1

And I don't know how DPI keeps up with that for this kind of2

a setting.3

Dr. Medley: If you heard the conversation4

that began where there had been meetings between members from5

the department with representatives from both the applicant6

groups, there are some pieces that are being looked at as far7

as what the funding is going to look like, the student8

accounting, withdrawal rates, those type of pieces. So a lot9

of that is being worked out to be presented to the state10

board in January.11

Is there a specific analysis of what that is going12

to cost per person or per school? I do not know if that13

exists, and I don't think that has been calculated or14

tallied. There is going to have to be, you know, monitoring15

of the schools, just like we would normally do as a depart-16

ment for any of the charter schools. Some things are going17

to be incumbent upon each group to provide to us when18

requested. And a lot of that is being packaged together as19

part of the charter agreement.20

Chairman Hill: Other comments or questions?21

Ms. Taylor: Well, I don't think we can22

ask them any more questions; right?23

Chairman Hill: Well, we---24

Ms. Taylor: (interposing) Or maybe---25


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Chairman Hill: (interposing) We want to1

spend maybe the next five, seven minutes and then figure out2

what the will of the committee is.3

Ms. Taylor: I'm still a little bit4

concerned and maybe other--the committee can say if you've5

heard something different. I'm still concerned about what6

happens in the home since we're putting a lot of responsi-7

bility on the parent as a--as the learning coach. I mean8

there's a huge responsibility there.9

Now, we're dealing with a typical home school10

family, which could be a large percentage of these families11

for all I know. Those--I would assume many of those parents12

served in that role.13

But it's just real discerning (sic) that we may14

have students in a situation that might not be as structured,15

especially when we're talking about young children, K-3,16

which we know how critical it is for the social aspects of17

the academics--it's more than just, you know, the--you know,18

teaching reading and math. There's a lot that goes on in19

teaching a child how to respond in a structured academic20

environment. So I--you know, it's--you know, maybe there's21

another committee member who could speak up and share22

thoughts on that or how you've interpreted it.23

Ms. Nance: Well, I know from my24

experience that--and we're supplemental, so we're very25


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different. We're not the full load. But there is--1

particularly in the summer--you were talking about summer.2

There is an underestimation on the part of the family often3

about the amount of time required.4

And I didn't get to ask, but I wanted to talk5

about how do they really communicate the amount of time it6

requires. It does require--to do it well as a student and to7

learn what's there to be learned, it requires most of the8

same time commitment it would if you were going to show up in9

a traditional school. And so, you know, I think that is---10

Ms. Taylor: Right. Well, you know, I do11

think we're--North Carolina is ready to look at a virtual12

charter. There is no doubt. And I think, you know, we're13

ready to look at it.14

I think what scares me is the jumping in too big,15

too fast, too large, too long, you know, because to me a16

pilot is a pilot. And we do need a pilot. We need some--as17

they indicated on their first screen, you know, we want to--I18

think how they worded it, we want something refined, studied,19

reported on. And that is what the state board wants as well20

as I'm assuming most stakeholders.21

So I do have a concern that we just are very22

careful in how we do this because it's not necessarily that23

we're just opening up a virtual charter school big time24

forever and ever. We hope that's where we're going to go,25


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but this is a pilot.1

And I think we can keep tha

virtual signed

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