........

Volume XL

Friday

Province of Newfoundland

FORTIETH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF

NEWFOUNDLAND

Fourth Session

VERBATIM REPORT (Hansard)

Speaker: Honourable P.J. Mcl\(icholas

Number 17

15 April 1988

The House met at 10:00 a.m .

MR. SPEAKER (McNi.cholas): Order, plE!ase!

Statements by Ministers

MR. DOYLE: Mr. Speaker .

MR . SP[AKFI~ :

Tlw hon. l he Minis l:er of T1"a n s pot'i:a ~."i.o n.

MR·. DOYtf. : Mr. Speaker, T am pleased to i.nfOI"ITI th·is hon. HCIIJS(.} i:h~Ji: rJtr. c; . M. (Max) Hussey has bE!en appoint_E!d

to the position of Regjstrar of Motor Vehicles for the Province

effective April 1, 1988.

Mr. Hussey was born in Cupids,

Conception Bay 'in August of 194-S and received his early education at South Brook. He workE!d for a period of one year as a teacher in Woodstock, Western Bay before conti.nu·.:i.ng t)Jt t.h h ·i.s educat·i.on at: the College of Trades and Technology where he completed a number of business courses.

M r . H u s s e y ' s e d u c r.t t i . o n a n d experience as a civil servant have prepi'lrod hi. ITI tJJell Fo;" ~:he:> diJti es

and responsibilities of his new job. rn UH:! al.rnosi·_ twenl:y ----l:hi"ce years since first being employed IJJi ~-.h J·. i·lc! Moi-.OI" Regis !:ration Di.vision back in 1965 t.t.Jhen it t.@S

F>r.trt of lhe Uf~pa.rtmE~nt-. of F-i.nancc, Mr. Hussey has continually progr·essC!d l.:hrough posii·.-ions oF increasing responsibility.

He fjrst started as a junior clerk 1~Jii:h 1-_hE~ div·i.si.on ;:~nd by l·:he l.:i.rnr:!

this division bE!CamE! part of the Department oF Highways in April of 1970 he:' held the posi.ti.on of

L8J7 April lS, .1988 Vol XL

Senior Vehicle Inspector .

Mr. SpeakE!r, I)Ji. thin four· years oF the departmental realignment, Mr. Hussey was appointed Director oF

r-11 o t o r V e h j cl e s a n d D r i v e l" Sa f e t y

for the Provi.nce. [n 1978, he

bE!Ca!TlE! Deputy Registrar and sinCE! ·t-:he rettrcrnent of Mr. M. J. Ha:.i.re as Registrar this past ~;urnrnel~, he has done a COIIliTHHlclab l e job ·in c a r r y i n g o u t t h e d u U. E! s of 1:. l·w f~og i.s·I-_J"ar of fJto·I·o;" Vehi.r:l es on an

acting basis.

In the inter:irn, the Pt~bl':i.c Sei"V:ict:! Coumrission has rccoiJ'imonded Mr.

Hussey's appointment: on a pe:~nnaneni-. bas:i.s.

As you are aware, the Registrar of Motor VE!~lic:Jes is rE•spons:i.ble for', .-~rnong o~_: hl'!i" l~ h--Lngs, l::he coJnp1:::•l::o

vehicle and driver l:i.ce•nc:i.ng pr·ograrnme for the Pr'ov ·Lnr::l'> and I

am most pleased to be able to formally ar.~no1J11ce 'in thE! House today, t .hE! appointlTIE!nt of Mr .

Hussey.

SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear', hear!

MR. GILBERT: Mr. Speaker .

MR. SPEAKER: r h e h o n . 1-. h r~ rn e m b e r f o r' 11tH' g E! o -- R a y d'Espoir .

MR. GILBERT: M I" . ~) p e a k e r , 1~1 e , o n L h ·i s ~~ -L d (:! o F t·he HousE•, are qui-t..E! hdppy t.o· congrR ·l.ulai· e Mr . 1-luss{~y on h"i.s appo:lnt~rnen-t:.. Mr·. 1-lussE!Y, as a career' c i v.i.J servi'lni-. no doubl-. deserves the promotion which he so j Usi·_l_y dt"!SCrVt:!S, rHld 14H'' clre quj_ t.E!

happy to congratuJatE! h-im. I

understand he is a personal fr i end

of the member for Port de Grave (Mr. Effor'd) . That. tJo.JOul.d rnake h:irn a good rnan, I arn SUI"e, the fact

No. 17 R817

that he is a per·sonal friend of the member For Por·i: d0 c;~avr~.

MR. BAKER : I imagine t.h(~ Public SeJ~vice u..dll br:~ glad to k not•.J l.ha 1: .

MR. GILBERT : I can assure you that we gr'E:'al. pl.easur·~~ tn wel.com:i.ng Hussey to this job. I hope he bE:~comes a ho1Jsehold name Newfoundland, as Mike Haire, predecessor did. Mike was known to everybody Newfoundland, and I am sure Mr . HusSE!Y u..dll carry on tradiU.on so ab1y SE!t by HairE!. WE! IAJelcornE! him.

SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hE!cH'!

MR . FENL'IITCK: Mr. Speaker.

Ml~. SPEflKER:

take Mr .

that i.n

his IJJe 11

in that the Mr.

The lwn. the member for Menihek .

Ml~. FFI\IWTCI<: Thank you, Mr·. Speakr:~r .

On Un:~ occaston of Lhr~ appoi.ntrnoni­of the new Registrar· -

i"1R. YOUNG: On a po i nt of order, Mr. Speaker .

MR. SPEAKER: A po ··i.nt of orde:~r, thE! han . the:~

Minister of Consumers Affairs .

MR . YOUNG : I would ask the Speaker to rule on whether the hon . member is proper.ly dressed .

MR. FENWICK : To the point of ord(~r, Mr. Speaker .

MR . SPEAKER: To the point of order, the hon. the member for Menihek.

L818 April 15, 1988 Vol XL.

MR. FENWICK : Mr . Speaker, it ·is 1ny understanding that to be properly dressed ·i_n th ·is House ann mu si:. have a shirt and a tie and a su:i.t or jacket on. I have all l·:ho se on, Mr. SpE!akE!I~ .

MR. SPEAKER: To i:hal. poi n I~ of· oJ~cJr:'r, I do not u..Jant to bE! particuJ.arly picky aboul-. mr.d:ters such as tl'l'i.s, twt the han. member says that he has a shirt and t i e on. It certainly is invi~ible to the Chair. If we are going ·ro establ.ish a CE!rta i n code .­of dress for the HouSE!, and it: :i.s traditional that members wear a shirt. and tiE~. I think IAJE! shouJ.d rna·i.nt.a ·i n that code unl.Pss hon . rn e m b E' r s u..li s h t o c h a n g e t: h a t. . I n rny vict~oJ, l:. ht:~ hon . rnernber· i.s n o l:

-wearing that particul.ar dres s code, i~hE!rE!fore, he i.s not properly dressed. The point is well tr.tken.

MR. FENWICK: Min. Speaker, l:: herr::~ is i : hr:!l~(! ··is a ·l:in t·:hr;~i"P.

adeqtJate? Mr. Speaker, o. n '1'.' i r r-~ l y 1 1n i n I: r-) J·1 ·1:. -L o n a l .

MR. SPEAKER : Order, pleas(:~!

a shirt, Is Lha~

this is

I think this is a SE!rious rnaU·.:E!r, not t.his part.icul.iH' instance, but we are dea1ing with serious matters here and we are not playing games. If the hon. member IAJants 1-o play games, I am not: prepared to play them with him .

SOME HON. ME~BERS:

Hear, hear!

The hon . member is not properly dressed.

MR. FENL'IIICK: May I speak to your comment thern?

No. 17 R818

SOME HON . MEMBERS : Oh, oh!

MR. FENWICK: Mr. SpeakE!r. ·

MR. SPEAKER: I am not prepared to recognize the hon. rnernbe r IJ nti.l he i . s propE! r· l y drE!SSE!d.

~1R. FENW(CK: Well, do you want have a shirt and Speak ~~r? I have a on.

11N HON. MEMI1 F R: ------·---

to know if I h .e on, Mr .

shirt and L:i.E!

:1-f you want to t.akt,1 it off, take i.t o·Fr.

MR. SPEAKER : I <Hn prepar·ed l'.o nam:::1 l: h e hon . member if he does not-

MR. FENWICK: Hold on now! I will take it off then, if you want . Be my guest.

MR. SIMMS : I arn very plE!aSE!d today on bE!half of--

MR. SPEAKER : Order, please!

I tAJill rE!CogniZE! Uw hon. the member for Menihek .

Mr. Speaker, I takf>. ·H, l:hE:1n, l:.hat sweater~ are out of order in the House. Is l.hai: what you hr.·we

ruled jn this particular instance?

MR. SPEAKER : Order . please!

MR. STMMS: Are you going to respond to the stah:!tnenl: or noi:?

MR. FENW[CK : Yes, I tAd.ll r'E:'spond to the

L819 April 15, 1988 Vol XI ..

statement, Mr . Speaker .

MR. SIMMS: YoiJ only have five SE!Conds lE!ft.

MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speak cc•r; wou1d likE! statement: -

MR. SP'EAKER: Ordor, pleaSE!!

the only th·oi.ng I to mention on the

The hon. member's Lime has elapsed .

SOMF HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WINDSOR: Mr . Speaker .

MR . SPEAKER : Thr>. hon. l:hc M-inister oF F-Lnance.

MR . WINDSOR: Mr. SpE!dkC'!r, I ju~.t IAJard: t:o tJpdatE! the House on thE! difficu1ties tAJe experienced yesterday with power on thE• Avalon Peninsula. ThE! difficulty occurred when a steel tower on one of the two lines from Bay d'Espoir·, a I~.O IAJC;·r· in l:.hE• vicinity of Holyrood, collapsed under the weight of ice. There was an tee build .. -up of about fout~

:i.ndH~s thick on all the t:owc:~r-s and cables in that part of our Province . In addition ~ o that, seVE!ral other totJ.Jers rE!CEd.ve:•d somE:• stt"l.lcl·uri:-~l dr:·\tni',\ge bu~.: cJ·icJ not collapse.

The sE•cond line from Bay d' Espoit" suffe1"r:~d ~>Oifl(' dalflagc,, IAJhen an insuJ.atoJ" collapsE:•d; Lhe conduci:or·, .. in far: I· . aci:ually fc"•ll. t.o l:he ground. All of th:i.s happon·ing, of couJ~s(~. shorted out thE! Lt.Jhole system, blew oui- the sub· .. -stati.on ner~r Chdpel 8r·m, and, as t.ueLl, kicked out Holyrood IAJhen l:hP. ex ·f:remc~ loa.d IAJi'\S put. on t·: hE• thermo-genE!ratj.ng station in

No . 17 RB19

Holyrood. So, everything was t.ri ppE'd oui: and thai.: i. s L•Jhy tA.Je had a complete failure Hunoughout the evening.

The first line, of course, ts darnagE!d severE:!] y and IAJi.ll t.ake ITIOine 1-.:h;::tn a t•Jeek ·l·.o l"cpai.l". The second line from Bay d 1 Espoir was pul· b<::t.ck i.n ~;erv i ce l.aLr~r J.asL evening, whN1 1.uorkmen '"'ere able to l·.r:=!mporari.l y ·f ·i.x. t .hc condud·. or l~ o the tower . It was done in quite a s afe manner, bui ·. , nE!VertheJess, just temporary repairs Lt.Jere made; t:hc;!y wr:H'e .nof ablr:1 t.o scale those towers because of the amount of ice that l.o~Ja s co a t :ing I:: he toiAJE!rs, but they did do some temporary tnepairs.

In t·. he meant:i. mE:~. tA.JE! had diffict~lLy

in getting Holyrood started becau s e therE• was no load on the system at all. It takes about fotH' hours "l~o st.art tJp those thermo-gE:~nE!rators and get them in servtce again, after they trtp, and in trying to put them in S(:H'Vicc, tn tr·ying -l':o synchinonize l:.hat: tAdth the load in thc:1 rc;!gion, w:! hr.·1d sover·al. diFfi. cult-ies -in trying to get the actual LhP.r'tno -- gcncrai:or·s s i·. ru"i:ed .

Fven+: t~ally 1~10. di.d thai", rHH:I pcli.•Jf:'in IAJas r·estol"ed in blocks; fi.rst of all 15 mc:'gclt~Jr.d:.ts of pot..~Jer, then -in blocks of 5 from there on, and fi na l.l.y, of cottrs (:~, t~H:~ I~Jii'!J"r~ ab l.E! to gEd: that SE!COnd line from Bay d 1 Espoi.r· on. We ar·e notAl oper·ating with plenty of power, backed up, of cotJrse, by a cotJpl.E! of small. gas· gE!nerators, and so forth, that arE! -Ln the region. By this afternoon we wiJ.l haVE! the third generating unit at Hol.yrood on stream, at Lt.Jhich tir11e t..11e will ~)(:'

able to close-down, temporarily, the line to Bay d 1 Espoir and effect more permanent repairs. So, by later this evening IAJe

1_8 20 f1pri.l. 15, 1988 Vol. X I

should have one line to Bay d 1 Fspoir completely repaired, we will have more than adequate power from Holyrood, tA.Ji l· h rc:~serve potAJE:1r· stiJ.J avaiJ.ablE! from Holyrood, and i. l: t..~ri.ll. l:nkc i-1 t;Jor:d< l .. o ·l:c~n day s Lo make final. repairs to the other l. i. n n .

MR. WF.:LLS : Mr·. Speake!r' .

MR . SPEAKER : The hon . Lhe Leader or= t.hE! Opposition .

MR. WELLS: Mr. Sp<~akE!r, t haVE! no d()ljbt. thE! people at Newfoundland and l..abrador Hydr·o <Hd a cornrnC'!I'H~abl e job in difficult c:Lrcu mstanc:E• s :.Lr1 getting pot~J(:~r· rE! S I-:ored <'tS qtJ.ic k ly as they did, but we should be al e rted to wh a t may well. b e a problem. We should ask t.hE! qt.Jesti.on, u1as that "i.CE:' stot"rn a nd that iCE! bu:iJ.d --up of an unusua-l. si.zo, or tAJas this notnrnaJ and t:.o be expect:E!d?

If it was nothing out: of the or·di nar·y bui- a nor·tnaJ. Spr· .. i ng .. i. c e storm that you could expect i n r:oueiny fourlh OJ" Fi Fl h Y E:~ar, CH '

something of tha ·t ordE•In, t.:hE!l'l c l e iH' l y 1:. h e l ·i n c s <H' r~ no 1- o F a strength and adE!quate s l~ructure to Jnf~ C:! ·i". 1·. h c n e !:! d . ~'3 o t l: h j n k IAJE' havE! to ask the qUE!Stion, and t:.he rntni. sb:!;n, perh;'lpS, OtJghl·· t.o i"t!; k NE!U.Jfoundland and Labrado1n l·lycll~o to r·epor·t: on l:ha+·., as Lo lAJhE!i·.her !--hat: storm was such as t.:o producE! an tJnustJal btdlclup of i.ce. If i . t. were, then obvtou sly E!V er·y thing u.Jas :i.n ordr:~r. If it tA.Jc:!re not, tJJE! should take steps to have the l ·i l'1E!S cons t:ruc t.:<:!d to a more SE:'cure standard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

MR. SPEAKER:

No . 17 R820

Order, please!

Befor·e recognizing the• hon. the Presi.den t of the Counci 1., I tA.IOilld like to t..llelcorne to the galleries hAJenty·-·one Grade VII students from St. Patrick's Girls' School with their teacher, Mr. Wade.

I IAJ011ld also l.i.ke to IAJelcorne:~

seventy-five Level XI students frorn M01111t Pearl. Sen ·"i.or H··i.gh School with their· tE•achers, · Mr. Button and Mr. Bishop.

SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear·, hE:~ar!

MR. SPEAKER: The 1·1on . ·l.h~::~ Ptn(~~; i dr:!ni· of L:h(:'

Council.

MR. STMr~s :

M r . s p C! a k u r I :r. dIll s 1.1 ;~ (:~ '( () l.lln II() n 0 II j" 1~1ould IAJant [- o hav ("! a c 1o s e1n look Fl~: 1-.hai: noh:: he just re:~.~d. T suspect it is· not a Level XI group oF sL:udE=!nl:s, bul': possoi.bJ.y I..C:wel IT.

MR. SPEAKER: L.eveJ. II, YE!S .

MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, I wish to make a brief s ·tat(,~ITIE!nt on beha1f of my colleague, the Minister of CareE•r DE!Ve1oprnent and Advanced St11diE!S, who had intended to make this statE!mC'!I'li~ yC:~ster·day, i. nci. dr:~ni~.al.J.y,

but because of the House not s'i.l:ti. ng he was unable to, and today he is on HE!r Majesty's Service, OV"E!r on Uw Wos ·l: Coast:.

0 n hi. s b o h a J. F , +: h (;! n , T t~kl n 1: ·i·. o announCE! that t.:he goVC:'rnment' s Pri. va l:e ~)c c i:or ftnp l o ymeni: Programme, which was outlined in 1 ... he budgr=!i·., ·is one:~ ag,;dn o p e r a 1. i n g tAli. t h j n t h e D e p a r t rn e n t of Cart:!r~Jn fJc•Jcloprnen·i· i'lnd Ad•Janr:od St.udiC:~s. The rC:'Sponse l::o th<:1 pr·ogramrne l.e1s 1·. ye;u·, Mr·. Spoak:::!r,

L821. April 1.5, 1988 Vol XL

as many pE!OplE~ have acknowledged, including rnany Opposition people, was excellent, and, this YE!ar, with an increase of 50 per cent in funding, amounting to $2. :, rn:i .. lJ.ion additional dollars, bringing the total allocation to $7.5 million, we are confident the programme will continue to be a huge success.

I wish to advise the House and the publ.ic a~ this time that applications atnE~ bE!ing mailed out t o a l. l. e m p l. o y o r' s t.•.J h o p a r t t c-i. p a , .. E! d in the programme last year, as ~ell as those employers who appJ.ied but were not successful. In addj. l:'i.on to t·.hal.:, E~;'lch mE:~tnbi:O! r

of the House of AssE:'ITibly, at this V!''I"IJ mornf:!ni: Oi" sornet:i.JTlf:! dur· ·ing Lhe d a y , tAli 11 a 1 s o b l::O s u p p 1 :i. l'' d tkr·i t .. h i:l p pl. ·i c a i · ·i c: n s :-o d ·i s i" r· ·i. b u 1.. e a s ·I ~ h r~ y wish, and to assist l:hE~ITI i .n I~Jork·ing 1.11iL:h l.:hc! ·i,-- const ·i. l.:uenl:.s. Applications ar'e, of coui~~'E', also a•Jdi. l. r.lblr~ from Lh::! dopc.~t"l'ITJenL., .~nd

any enquiries the public may havE• concr~rn·i ng the pi"o.gr·arrllne cdn be made by caJ.ling collE!Ct, for the benefit of the press, i n particular, to 576-2719.

Mr. Speaker, I IAJould Like l·o takE• the opportunj t:y to .:i.nfor'tTI hon. l'nPJnbC:H'S of the,~ SUCCt'!SS of thE• programmE! last year. Wi.t.h thE!$~)

mi.1l.ion that. 1~1as a1l.ocat.ed For thE! programme, approximately 2,000 jobs were created.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE!ar, hear!

MR. SIMMS: Tho ;,HH~ i" age i:cH'rn of o rnp 1 o y 111e n t. IAJa s

twenty-five weeks. Many of the jobs IAJnl"l" for long(!r p!'!ri.ods of time and, in Fact, I understand rn<HlY oF !:hose i'ha ·l· IAJC!I"n ei'nployed unde:~r the programmE! ar'E~ still IAJorki n•:;J, I~H~re kepi: on by I': he

ernployE!rS, So, CE!rtain1y it. lAJcH; succossf11l ··in Uv1L r·::~spec-1.:.

No. 17 R821

SOME HON. MEMBERS : HE!ar, hE!ar!

MR. SIMMS: I would also like to tell hon. mE!mb~n·s l·.hat of i ·he jobs cr'P.ale:~d. 47 per cent were female and 53 per cnn"l: t~wr·e youi:h, 111hi. ch I.AH~r·e strong objectives of the programme.

M;~. Spf~i'lker, many r:!rnploy81~s of i:hP Province, who would not normally halJP. bf!C:!I1 gi.Vf:!n rln opportunity i:O hire additional staff, t.uere given one tn ~his partlcular wage subd.dy programmE!. As a r'E!Sul t, ln~tny un~~mpl.oyr~d Nc:~wfoundland(:H'S obtained employment .

With the addttional $2.5 million that is being allocated to the programme, thC'! dE!partrnE!nt and l:.he government is hoping that we• wi.ll be able to create, this year, 3,000 new jobs. Based on the response from last year's programme,· we expect this year's IAJi.ll. al.so bE! a StJccess i'Hld wJ.J.J. continUE! to bE! mutualJ.y beneficial ~o potential employees, thd private sr:~ctor, and, indee!d, the gOVl'!r'nmr~nL.

SOMf HON. MEMRERS : I lear·, hear·'

MR. Df:CKFR: M ·~ I . Spr~akei~ .

MR. SPF(.)I<ER : ThE! hon. the TTIE!ITibE:'r for· the S·t·rcd t of Rel J.e Tsl r:!.

MR. DF~ CKER :

We have had, I be!lieve, years of Tory rule ProvincE!, and what. is legacy, Mr. Speaker?

AN HON. MEMBER : And seventeen more to go .

MR. DECKE"R:

L822 ApriJ. lS, 1988

seventeen in this the Tory

Vol XL

Last moni-:h, 34 p~:! r cent of all. OIH'

young peoplE! between thE! agE!S of ni.neLeon and t:~~1enLy -four uiE!rE! unemployed, 1,7,000 young people.

~N HON. MEMBER: Sharne!

MR. DECKER: Thal, Mr. Spe:~akE!I~, is thE! Tory l.r~gacy. find U1e mi.nts I et~ ge:' l .. s up and brags about 3,000 jobs IAJhich may or may no ·l: be crE:'al~ ed . No wonder the Minister of CareE!r Oevt:~loprnonl-. i'lnd Advancl">d Sl~tJd:i.E!S

is not here today.

MR. MORGAN : Do you not 1~1ant thc:Hn?

MR. SPEAKER: OrdE:~r, please!

MR. DECKER: He was ashamed to comE! and put th·is statement. , he had to p()ko;! il:. off on thE! hon . the GoVE!ri1TnE!tlt. House:~ I..E:~ador. H.c'! ·is ashcuned t.o bE! hE!re.

NOIJJ, Ml~. Speai<E!r, thE! 17,000 YOIHl~J pPopl ~~ 1~1ho i'-li"P. I.II'H~tnpl oy1:!d l'ocL·•1y ·i s only the official Stati stics Cdl'li'"tda nurnbr:!r . • ~h~t•JfotJndJ anders JAJi.ll tE•l] you that in actual fact L here n i" C! pro b .~1 b l y ?. S , 000 p c~ o p l e unernpJ oyed in t:his Pr·ov:i.nCE! Loda y , young pr:!ople t., Jho do noL knotAJ t~Jhat-.

it is to have a rE:~al, proper job, Ml~ . ~'Jpoi•lkl:;!i"

MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order .

MR. SPEAKER : Or·der, please!

MR. DECKER: The rni ni s te•r is not going t.o rne finish my statement, again.

MR. SPEAKER: Ord(:~r, pleaSE!!

let

No. 17 R822

~[

MR. DFCI<ER: 1-1"'1 cannot takE! it. . He cannot L ''' k e i ·1·. . H c ·i s U"'IC'i ng my 1'. i .rn0, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

A point of order, the hon. the President of the Council.

MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member will be careful and not blow a gasi<E:1t., I just want to make a point here. The point here is that it was a simple statement to anno1Jnce that: t:her'~ 1.1Jero applications available for a pRrt·. i . CIJJ.,~I" pr·ogrrunrn0. Ti: hdd no-t-hing to do 1.o~.d th the youth unt:~rrip1oyrncn1 : r· ;-:'11'.<:! ur any oF thr.li : kind of ~tuff. Absolutely nothing!

rhe han . o1"der·.

membei" i !) r:1 e;'lrl y 0111 : or Tf he wi~hes to comment on

'1-: h a ·i ·. , ·I~ h r~ r t~ a r· o o t: hE! r· opport·LJni.t·ies to do so. Let him R s k q 11 f:! s i·_ i . on s ·i n L he H r)l.l s e oF Assembly in QtH:'stion PE!riod for a change. Or 1 Ed·_ IT.·i.m part:-Lci.pr.~ l:: e in a debate on the motion that his own colleague has on the Order Paper, I beli.eUE!, somE! time dou.m t.hE:~ r·oad, IAJ-i.t:h I"E:~Spect: r.O unE!mployment rates. But let him no·t. abuse the r1Jl.c,1s of th~~ House, where a member is alloWE!d to re:~spond to C\ particular s 1-.al-:ernent: and then tai<E!S off and taJ.k about:. something eJ.se t:otaJ.l.y out of order. I think that is totally OIJt of or·der and sho1Jld nol·. b0 permitted .

MR. DECKER : Mr . ~?~)(':1a I< P.r, 1-.o Lhat: po-in-t·. oF Olnder.

MR. SPEAKER : To tha{-. prri. nt: oF ordr~r·, l'.hr) hon. 'the member for the Strait of Belle rsle.

1_8/3 Apr·il lS, 1988 Vol XL

MR . DECKER : Ml". Speai<E:1r, all too often l.UE~ sE•E! 1: h a+·. i: hi s j_ s IJJ h i't +: l-:l·r·i s part. i c u l a r han. gent1E!fnan does. I haUE! t.LAJO rni.nutes t.:o r·eply. II-: I~Jas not-:. a

point of ordE!r, Mr. SpE!akE!r. He i . s i:aki.ng my t: ·i.tnc~ so I cannot go ahE!ad with my reply to thts statement, 1.uhi.ch was perfectly in order.

~_§PEAK~E: Order, please!

To that potnt of Ol"dE!r. Han. memb(H'S responding to Min:.Lst:er :i. a1

confine t.hE!ir Statements must r·~~rnr.~rks to s tatement itself . hon . mP.rnber t•Jas off that path. --j ,.,.r o I" rn ·l.l·w h c: n . has elapsed.

MR. DFCKFR :

·1·: h (:' I do

part.·i c iJl.ar thj nk l: hE'

q e 1- 1: j n g I l.J.J OUJd IIWII'I br:•r'

so me wh at like to

h::i <:: 1-- "i IJ} ( •

Yes, exactly! Sur~=! ·.it:. has .

MR. FENWICK: Mr·. SpE'!akE!r .

MR. SPEAKFR : The han. the member for Menjhek .

MR. FENWICK: Thank you UE!r'y rr11Jch, Mr·. ~3pE!aker .

T h -i. s i. s "' s h a m . r h a 1·.: ·i_ s 1··. h e o n 1 y way to describe it. It ts just cl sham. We haue a Ministerial St.aternE:~nt herE:1 that says t:.ha+: LAJE! .'Ire gc'!Li: i. ng an i.ncr ea sE• fr u m ~J;5

million to $7. S m:iJ J ion :i.n lhE! Pr· ·i ua l:r:~ ~::;eci : or· F.mpl.oymE•n t. Programme. Wha ·t. they do not: say, at: ·1-.he sa1T1e 1·.--irne, -is l:.hal· a $'7.5 million programme la s t year for :~mpl. oymeni·: I~Ji t.:lri n Uw gouernrnen t., in Summer jobs mostly for students and yr)llng people, has be~:!n t:ot:al.Jy cancelJ.ed. You add up thE! monC'!Y l:hal: I)Jr-~nl· --ini--. o -ii· 'lasl· yc,'H' in this depar· tment and you IAJ:i11 find :F) rrr'i.l.l ion ·'1nd $'/ . s lll'i ... ll ·i on, I)Jh J ch

No. 17 R823

.is $12 . .5 milJ.ion i.n total. tf yo1J add up this $7 . .S million and to.1o other smalJ. programmes of $1 milJion and $1 . .S miJlion, you only havE:1 $9 million. Mr. Speaker, that is a $3. S rrd llion reduction in spending on job credtion by this governmcoHit.

Ii: show;, T. Uli.nk, Mr. Spr~akf)r, i·o H1e entir'e Province and to c tJ p r y bod y , t·: h a i: U1 1':! y a r r~ i:r' y i n g ·l·· o bl j ndfold +:he deviJ in the dark. W h '" 1: 1: hey 0 r f:! say i. n g ·i s i: h a '1: t· hey ar'C:1 spend-:i.ng more money by i.ncr·easi ng i i·: by SO per' ceni··, I:)IJi: they V(~ry conveniently forget that l:hc;!y have al. rc'!ady CIJt $'7. IJ mJ.lJ.i on out of the progra~ne .

Mr'. SpE:'aker', I say to thE:1TTI that tAle have examined the Private Sector Programme. We are awaiting r·eports from the rn-i.nisi'·. er' about-. hotAJ perrnanE!nt these jobs are, becaiJse tAle have certain questLons therE!. As a matter of fact, Mr. • Speaker, thi.s governrrH'!nt has dropped its spending from $12.5 mill i. on L o $9 rni. lJ-:i. on on d j_ r C'! c t job creation in this department. Th·is ·is a loss from 1.1.Jhat t•Je had last year, and that is what it should be recogni 7.ed as . Thai: is IAI h y T s a y t o t h em t h i s i s a s h am , 'Hld t·.:hey sho11ld noi: be alloiA,nd l·o get away with it.

Oral Questions

MR. WELlS : Mr . Speaker .

MR . SPFnKFR : The hon. the Opposition.

MR. WELLS : Mr. SpeakE!r, I q u e s t i . on l: o Finance (Mr.

LE!adE!r of the

tAiant to address a of

o.d th thE:1 Mi.nis'I-:E:1r

W:indsor),

L82.4- April 1.5, l9B8 IJoJ XI.

respE:~ct to h i s sl:atE•ITIE!nt.s rnade recently about the unemployment rate, anr.l hi.s argulfiE!nl:s that the unemployme!nt rate is, in fact, on 1 y h a l. f l·: he r a i: P. t h a t i s s h OtAll'l as the official unernployiTIE!nt ratE! ·i.n 1\lf:!l~lfoundlc:~nd.

I would ask the minister if he, br~forf:! hr-~ rn<~d:~ t·. hosn si-.ah:'ITIE!nl:s, read thE! House Royal Contrn:iss.:i.on Report, c.Hld, ·i. n por1: iCLilar, J.ookE!d at the table on page 75 whi c h ex •:1 rn i . rw s o 11 r 1 J n c rn p l o y lTH'! n ·t: situation in this Province Fr·om a v a r i e i: y of p o ·i. n l: s o f v -i n '"' . I t­sets ·aut nine diffE:~ren·l~. standc:ll~ds

for IIWi.'l.SIJr "ing i. l-.. fly sc~ven oF those standards the unemployment ,~al:r:• :-i.n I\Je1~foundlr-1nd is 1-:tArice !-:he national averagE!. C1E•ar1y, by any standard, .-i l: i. s t·.1Ari ce !:he na l· j on a 1 average. In every other one it i s clearly that much .

T tAJould ask l·:he hon. irdnistE!r : Does he still stand by the statem(:!nt he made, al.bE=d.t otJts:i. dE! the HOUSE! but IAJi.dely ('E!pOIAtE!d in the press, thai:, i n fact, the official unemployment rate in Nc:'IAifOIJI'lrlland do::!S nol~. L1Auly reflect the unemployment rate?

MR. SPEAKER: nw hon . t-:hi·:! MJn ·i. s l:er· of f-" i rli.HlCe .

Mf~. WINDSOR : Mr. Speaker, the answer 1-:o all I I l · · r· 1 · '1 0 S C C[l U~ S ' ·. J. 0 n S '1 S y (' <: . . 'H~ V E! looked at ·those numbers. I hc\VE! also l ooknd ·~ ·1 ·. all I he figiH' CS

from Stats Canada and those are i : h c F .-i g 1.1 r· c <; r 1.1 s c d a s L h r:• b a s "i. s for the statements that I rnad e . The fac::t of 1--ht~ mF.J.t·.ter' -is , and I made i ,t very clear' in th:is House a~; IAie 'l l as o u ·t·. s -i_ de , thai~ [ do not question the validity of the nurnbC'!Y'S that: Stat:s Canadr~ has and that thE! House Cornm:lssj_on RE•po1At: :is basE•d on . In fact:, T arn using the same numbers, but what I am

No. l 7 R8 2 L~

doj ng :is J ooki.ng at t-hem fr·orn a ch. F f (~ 1n en t p o ··i n 1: oF v i OI.•J . If yo IJ con!d dr:~r thr:~ nurnbc->.rs as t.hey a1nc->., 1:1·1,'11: gives yo11 ~ fi'lir .i.ndir:c::1l:ion irt reJ ation l~.o other pnwincr:~s . of Canr:~da, and par 1:-i. cul.di"l y in I"O]ation to the previous year·s in t. h i. s P r· o u i. n c.: 0. . W h a 1: i. t d o e s no +: take into account is the seasonal.-LI:y of c,~mpl.oymenl: i. n otJr Province . I realize that they are sr:'asonal.l.y adjusi·:ed, but t~Jhat Tam s .aying is that when you look at t. he total. numbN' of p c,~ o pl. C'! tJJho are employed that is a different ntHn'ber l.:han t:hr:~ l~otaJ. nurnbr:~r of people,~ who are E!Tnployed somE! t:irnE! dtJr ·ing the year. Tha~ :i.s whal: r. tJJas talking about, the number of pE!rsons in i·:he J.aboiJr force ver·sus the:' number of persons in thE! l <:-tbour for·r:<:' somc~t ·i mes.

T. f y o u 1 o o k <.·1 1-: t·. h e d tJ r:· r· <'l g r.· n u rn b e r of ·persons emp}oyed, you al"e t:r:tl!dng aboul-. UHi,OOO on rHl HI'HliiF.Il:

average basis. Tf you are taJking a b 0 IJ'I: ·1 . h F:! n Ill n b r=~ r 0 F p c 0 p l (! IAJ h 0 o':1i" ('

erupJoyed sornet:jme dur:ing the year, yntJ <H'A i:i:dk·i ng r.~boui: ?.7(), 000 people employed some time during .J.:he year. So t~Jhcn yo11 r:omp<::~re

those numbers t~ri th other provincE•s oF C<:Hlr:-tda yotJ 1~ri l.l. .i.r~dned f·i.nd that we are not that far behind.

T h e p r· o b J. E! m h e r e , a s i . n d :i. c a t: c:~ d b y the numbers and by the analysis we hav~:~ donl:', :is th~:~ shortness of 1-:.he duration of those jobs. Ours jobs in this Province tend to be of shortE~r duration, on thE! average, i n fact, Mr. Speaker, some thirty-one weeks a year compared with probably something in the order of forty-three to forty five, T. th'i.nk ·i i : i.s, for other pal"ts of Canada. That ·.is I~J h <.'1 1·. -i_ S InC! f J. (~ C I: e d h (;! r· r. , b i:·l S E! d 0 n UtP stetndard method of caJ.culati.ng urwmpl.oyrrwnt: t·:hi'd: Si'al-·s C<'lni'lcld does, and T t~JouJd I'H~VE:'r' quest:i.on H1aL I i'liTI jw;i· Si'ly·ing lhet"r. .. is

1..8?.1) April 15, 1988 Vol XL

another t.A.Jay of looking at it and ·J-. h a i~ you tAri.ll , i. n fa c: t , F ·i n d 1:·. hal'. sometime during the yPar 94 per CI·Hll~ oF NCtArfoundJ.<.ulders I~Jho arC:' i.n the tAJorkforce, IAJho at"E~ looking For IAJ(H'k, a c 'i:ua 1. '1 y do f:i. nd IAJor· k.

Not~J, i:ha+-. i. s no!- to say that Js

satisfactory, because many of t:hose are short. ·t:.E!r'm jobs. But J am saying that there is only 6 o1n 7 per CC'!I1t of !-:he p(~ople tJJho are are looking for work IAJho d'o not f'i.nd t~Jork r.HJy t. i.me dur·:ing the year.

MR. WELlS: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker .

MR. SPEAKER: () s 11 p p 1 E! rn e n i·: a In y , I·· h o h o n . 1 .. h C'! Leader of the Opposition.

MR. WELLS : M r· . ;-) p o a k c:~ r· , t·. h e I" r:! <:1 r f'! , o f c o 1.1 I" ~:; (=! ,

seasonal workers in every other pi" (ll.J •i. n r: (' 0 f c i'l n a c:l a . 11\1 h r:l l': l h ,,! MjnJster 1 s comments reaJJy ·i.nd ·i. cai .. :~ ·i~; i:hnl: a l l of l".he job creation activities mentioned by '1: h r. g C)l) e r· n me n I· i s r· C! a J 1 y 1". h e I· lc! 1"1 weeks syndrome, they create l':rHnporar·y l · ::~n ~~H~:~k jobs and t:r·y l'.·. o pretend that they are rea] long jobs.

I would ask the rn:in:istE!I", M1~ .

Spt'aker, ·if the'! off "L c::i.al~; of his own department agree with that approach, and hot~J does t.:ha t E!ff e c t:

our position in terms of eqiJaJ ·i.zai:.::ion and o1Jr l:!nt.:lt.J.r:~rnl=•nl::

to a lE!Ve1 of equalization jf t.he rn'i.nj.st.er' rnaJ.ni:.a "i. ns t:hat: Otjr unemployment rate is as he states?

MR. SPEAKER : The han. the Minister of Finance .

MR. ~HNDSOR:

Mr. Speaker, it l'ldS absolutely no :i.mpi'1cl: . F.q11ali7.ati.on is bt"'lsed on the Stats Canada statistics and we •'11"0. no l· qtw'; ·l· i Ol'l"i ng 1-.ho~;e. A'll I>JC!

No. 17 R825

are sayi.ng ·is l:hdt thE!re is another way of Jacking at them. There is another way of looking at it if you want to see the effect-ive rate of IJn<:!mpl.oymE!nt ·i.n the Province. I also made it very clear l:hal: I arn !;l·:i. l1 nol·: happy with the effective rate of lJrJPrnpJ.oyment Edther, biJI·., T Udnk we we have to look at it in per·!; pee i·.i lJG.

J1.1R . WELI .. S ; Mr. Speaker, a finaJ supplementary .

MR. SPF{)KF:R: A final ~uppJemen~ary, the han. I: he I r~;"'dcr· of Lhe Oppos i i·. ion.

MR. WFI I :J : Doc'!S l:.I·IE! min·.istE!r rco!ali ze that +:hE! F i.r·~:.i-. st·ep 1-o soltJ i ng dl'lY proble111 is recognizing that it exists? And i.f the mi.n i.s i·. er refusE!S l:_o recognize that we have an IHJemployrnent r·ate of rwar·l.y 18 percent in this Province we wilJ. never get Lt down to the 8 per cent that the minister talks ahout.

I'-1R. SPF.AKER: The hon. the Minister of Finar1 c E! .

MR. WTNDSOR: Yes, Mr·. Speaker, I CE!rtai nly do real·i~c,~ i-hat .. And T rr!alize, as weJl, of course, that employment has -Lncr·c,~;'l!>E~d by ?. . 8 percerd·, rno1ne than 10,000 jobs on a monthly alJer·;;H:JC brts is ()\)Cr

and a~: d r·esult. uncmpl oymcnl r'Fl Le jJer·cen'l- in 1987. 'l <:1rgr,~s 1- nb~;ol uiJ! IJncmpJ oyruent rate 0 r c i'l 1'1 t'\ d il 0 \) c r 1- h c

SOMF HON. MEMBERS: 1-lc,~i:ll'', hE!ar!

MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Fortune-Hermitage.

ihr~ 'la!;'L yei:1r, of that thE~

dropped by 1 .~ That i ~; the

in !'he decl inc of any province pas I· :JE:~r.1r.

1nernbE!r for

L826 Apri. J. lS, 1.988 Vol XL

MR. SH1MONS: I have a . question for my friend and co 1 J. e ague , the fl.1i n :is t e r of Mines (Mr. Di.nn). He 1.11as bE!fOrE• t:ho Re:~sourc~:~ Est·i.rnah:!S Comrnil:teE:! a couplE! of days ago and I may say gave a good accoLII'lt of h-i.ITlSE•l.f .~tncl

his department, for which 1.11e thank h.irn. T r·a·i.sr.~d dl: t:h•''ti.: 1-.:·irne w:.i.th him in Committee the subject of fE:~dcr·;ql nli.wi ng t<.·lX ·i ncc-:~ n l .. i.ves, and I now want to pursue it for a lfiOJnP.ni·, ~1r. SfH)nkc;n.

The Minister indicatE:!d to the Colflllri.i:l·r'!C Ult'li: Uw flow +:hr<)llgh regime, the flow through shares fll" o 'J ·i. !; .. i on , 1~1i. ·1 -, b r'! I" e 1:"" .i. n r.=! cl intact:.. And I i:lSkE!d thE• M·.:Lnj_sLPI" ·i!; +-ha-L ·is inde.::~d HH~ case;,. ·r recognize it is a federal issue b11l: he ·ind i.ca l: r'!d l·o t.he Coillln-i. 1". 1:.cE• that hE! is 1.11e 11 on top of i t . I ask the lrri. ni!;ter· is l::hat· i. nd<'!t"!d thE! case and dOE!S hE! have :it on good aiJ'i::hor ·i l:y l::hat l::I 'Ho! flotAI through regime will be retained ·in Eo!SSE!nl:.ia1l.y i·.he sa1ne fol"l'll as existed prior to thE! statement of Mr·. Wi.l.son of June 18 last yea1n.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Mini.ster of Mines.

MR. DINN: No, l'-1r. Spnr1k::!r. ns a mai· Ler· of fact, I indicated to the c onnrri U:r.:! r., and i I· 1·1"' s b C:! en I~JC;! 1. l. known now euer since last June, !; i . n c r. i · h H 1111 h ·i I r.:~ P ,,, p c r M r· . 1111 i. l. s o n put out, that.: he had tntE=•ncl('!d l:'.o chcHll.:JC r·J 01~1 Hli"OII•::Jh. Of COIJI"se,

we objected uery strenuously to ih,,i· . MyselF, 'i.hc r"'-ini~;it:!l" of Finance and the Premier objected I o l4ihi'1t IAJi'~S proposed under changC'!S to flow through. There were ch<Hlgc~·; bt'Ccw~;e oF representattons, of the Ministers of M.i . n(,~S. li\IE' held a M·i.rl"i s l:elnS of Mines meeting on it and, of co tJ r s e , t h P r· C'! I~Ja s no rn'i n i s t e r· t. hat I can rE~calJ. in favour of IAJhal: IAias

No. 17 R826

""

proposed dS changes to flow t·:hl"ough soT do noi: kno1~1 IAJhr:•t"e l.hc han. gentleman ever got the i.Hlpress ion l·.hal: IAJe IAJCrP. happy 1~Ji. i:h

llJha t. llJCI ~~ hap pe n:i n g to flotlJ through, because 1-.iri~; i~; s ·imply

not ·Hw cdse. The depJ E:'tion Rl10IAJiHlCP. c·lS f :i.ndiCr'lh~d i:o i".he

hon. member·, 1.uilJ be dc-?.creased l.:h "i. s J1.1ne i·:o 1.6 2/3 per ccnl-: fr·om 33 1/3 per cent, so that is

obviously not somEd:hLng thal: IAJ0 are hclppy with. It is very d i. f f i c u l. t . () s 1.ue ll, each rn-L n "i. s t-. E• r L~Jho has had any input at aJ.l to thi. s has bE!E!rJ totally opposE!d to an~ change~ to flow through. So thE!re are some changes as f.l r·esul.t of what Mr. WiJ.son has done and we a r· e no t happy IAri L h t: h a t. , or lAd 1 1. not bt=! happy. We aJ"t'! going t.o bE! mon"i.l·.or i.ng ·i.i-. . FlJery l'-1:i n-isI r::!r' of

Mines thr·oughout C<:HJada tAJi11 be monih.H'i. ng Lhe sii:JJct-l:ion l·.o Jrii.-lke sure of no detrimental changes to l.:he depl.ei-... i on al.1 OI•Ji:HJce.

There are ti.>Jo basic changes. One -; s i:he e<:ll"l'lf:!d dop1 ei:"i on a "l1oi•JcHJcc, and -t-he,~ othel" ont~ is the max:imurn i'IS . "i I· effects F1 OIAJ l·hro11gh shiH'E~s. The Pal"rwd dC:~pJ Ed::i on i~;

one, and 1:he ol:hei" one 'i.s-

AN 1-101\J. MFMR F I~ :

Flow through shares.

MR. 11TNN: No. Ther·e <H'e I:IAJO chClnges, one :is the earned depletion allowance i . Lsel.f

MR. SIMMONS : The other :is the CED, the Canadian Expl.oratton Expense.

MR. DINN: No, it is not. T,he Canadian Exploration Expense is another one. The eJ.igib1e Canadian Fxplorr.~t · ·ion Fxpensr~ -is anoi'her

chrlnge that 1.1.1as prE! tax reform. I IAJl, 1 1 1·: h j_ tl !< 0 f -i_ +: i:l 1 :i. -(- ·1·: 1 I'! 1 i'l 1-. f'! I" ,

L.827 Apr•j] lS, 1988 VoJ XL

MR. SIMMONS: Mr·. SfH:~aker· .

MR. SPEf'lKER: The hon. the mf:~rnber' For· ro;~i-_ljJ']l,' ller·m·i l:i7!gr~.

MR. ST.MMONS : While the minister is thinking, IAJO 11l. d I: h <'~ P a g fo! be good e no u g h t: o 9 i V E! hi rn t:. hiS? ThE~ 'l:iAJO t h 'i 11 g S he

"i.s J.ook ·ing for· <H'e ther·e, conveniently in yellow for him, and maybe he can inform h·i.msel.f.

Mr. Speakc,~r. I IAklnl: h "L rn to listE!n to this brief quotation, 11 ThE!rE~ is

nothing ac l:uall.y happE!rl"l.ng 1.1.1i l:.h respe~ct to .flow through :i.tself. 11

I IAJOLJl.d l..i. ke 1- h(~ Page i· o g·:i\Je that to the minister because in case he

i~; not ""'"r:~ I)Jho T <un qlc~oi-.ing, I din

quoting hirn -in Committee l:IAIO days ·~go . N 01~1 , I '•JO 11l d ~; u g g e s 1:: , .. o h i. rn

and to the House that they read ·l·h<:li sL:d:ornE!ni·. -in conh~xl ...

~1R. SPEAKER: Oi"der, plc,,asE~!

MR. S[MMONS: Mr·. SpE!di<E~r·, I ask thE! rn:inisl:er· i .f hr. IMO IJ '] d C 011lf>r''t I~ f) ·l: h ft 1·: ~) 1:: o"l 1: E! lrl('' ill:

there, tAJh:ich h(,' gave t.LlJO days a~JO,

l•ri ·l· h '•Jh;'li· he jwd· l·old Lhe HOIISE!

about b.~.Jo minutr:~s ago and adv:isr:' ·i .. he H o 1.1 s e , e ·i t h fo! r n OIAJ or s u b s E! q u e n t 1 y , how he c a n r E· c o n c 'i 1 E·

Lhe Lwo? Now eJ ther there is a change or· LherE! is not. T1.1.JO days a go he s r.li d t he r· e IAJa s no 1- . Today

he says Lhe~re is. H~~ has noiAJ had a chance l~o bo.ne llp on flo1r. Wi1son 1 s statement. Can he now ··infor·m l':he !·louse? He IAJas t:.hc:~ 1nan who introduced the question of happy or· IJnhappy, T chd not ~:;ay

that at alJ..

What I am asking thE! rn:in:ist:.E:~r· :is

·i F h 0. IAJO 111 d i·: F.! 1 1 us , ·i f he h ''' s go L it on good authori.ty, IAJhat ht:! t.old i·he Conun-i l·: ·l·ec h•JO d1-1ys i:lgo, l:hD+·

No. 17 R827

•

lher'e t~Jas no arE! in fr'ont tell us i.f hE! good authority, t.h:is morni.ng

change? His words of him. Would he do~1s have that on or if want he said ·is the acct~ral-.e

thing, that he has it on good author·i.t.y thnt: changr:1s?

MR. DTNN: Mr. Speaker .

MR. SPEAKFR:

l·:hE:!re t~ri. l. J. b e

The hart. the Mj nister of Mines.

MR. DTNN: Mr·. Spe;:~ker, f·i J~!d: of <::tl'l, T hi::ttJe -t· o :. d y ·t-. h a t. :r a rn j n k .-i. n d of a peclll-iiH' ~;il·ll,::ti·: inn ·l:hi~; tnor'n ·ing . T am l·.ald ng l.r~·s~:ons about taxes iHJd lJlX Y'l-:!fOY'JiiS fi"Olll l · hr-~ hon. gen ·t-JE:'man. That i~: thE'! fir·st :·. h ; n g -t . h a+: T r ·i n d r::~ -, i u l e b ·H incredible here this morning.

FJow through shares as they pert.ain ·1-:o rnin"i.ng investrnE!nl·., fl.OI!J through itself, there is really no change l::o f1cliJ.J l·:hrough shares itself in the 100 pE!J~ cent. It is in how the depletion allowances and the exploration expenses a f f E! c t f 1. ow t h r o 1 J g h s h a r· e s . So both statements are correct in i" h , .. l t s e n s e . T h e y <H' (:' 1-:. o t i'1. 1 1 y consistent. If you did not change one, 'i.f you d·i d no 1-: have your maximum exploration expenses from $500,000 reduced to $100,000, t-here would not be an effect on your' fl OllJ Hlr'ough ~;l'ldJ"f•!;. T C.:Hl

g:i ve the han. gent] E:1rnc1n a compJ ete bJ"(:'i'lkdotAJtl of ·i 1·.. l'ltt+: T ,,.,,11 nfr,,,·i d that I t~JouJd tal«-:' up just about. all. of Qttes ·l: ·ion Pcr·iod iF T IAJeni· ·t-hrough i-t.

SOME HON. MfMBfRS: By leauc!

MR. DINN: By leave?

L828 April IS, 1988 Vol XL

SOME HON. MEMBERS : By leave!

MR. DINN: HoL~J much t:'i.rne i. s 1E!ft "i.n Questi.on PE!riod?

MR. YOUNG: Yc~u have anoth~::1r hc)IJr .

MR. DINN: So you l~Jer'c-:' allowed, pd or to the c h a n g e s , i-. h e '1: ax t' e f o r· m s , $ 5 0 0 , 0 0 0 as a li.fetime investment in u1p·ital g;:1 ·ins . Yot.J t~Jc!rt=• nllol•JC::!d $SOO,OOO; that was decreased to $100,000 rhai·. ·is .l'llllnber one. So if you invesl-:ed $10,000 a year, cnr:e yo11_ go-1- h) <~100;000 tl'l•''d: ·is it. That w~s one ch~nge.

The other changE! Wd~> J.~J:l.th rr:!SpE!CL I 0 l:l-1 P d (! p l C! (· · j 0 n d ]] OIAJa 1'1 C E'

itself. You were originally ,:-~1. 1 OI•JP.d' i:l. s i'l l·.i'IX Cl"E!CJ-i 1-' 1 3 3 1 I 3 per cent; that has bE!E~n cut do1.~m t o l 1 () 2 I 3 p E! r • c e n t. T h a t t~r:i. '11 become E!ffE!Cti.ve in JunE>, and rH:!xt y E:1 cl r 1·: h ct t·. l 6 ?. I 3 p E:1 r· c ('' n l: t~ri ll. b e cut down again. So your flow l:hr'ough +.:hen ~~rL 1.1 only bl~ l•JOI" l:.h 100 pE!r cent. So those are t..hE! l: 1~1o Jrti::t·i.n chnnges ·in 'fl.OIAJ Lhr·ough that ~ill obviously have an effect on 'i.nvest-.ment.

()s ·i.t pE:1rt:r.1i . n~; l· o N(:!wfottndland, which is one of the reasons we ~;<:1id !· hat we llJould hntJe l·o tJ.Jal::ch it VE·r·y closely, in t.hE! past l·:.hJ"E!E! y E:' '"'~ s ·i. n IJ f! s i·. HJr,~ n '1-. ·i n Jrt"i n i n g exploration in Newfoundland went from '~B m·i.·ll ·ion h) 1;Pi rnill.·ion l:. o $~6.S million. Next year we think l· hnl: explor'Ai:ion in Nt=!ldrcJI.Indland will go to tJ.Jell over $3S rrrillion, 1,~ri I h or· t•r"i H1011i: llJh<.·ll: happens l:o flow through shares. So it is IJC!r'y di.fl-·icu·lt: , ri"OITI lhc M·in"i.st.er of Mines point of v:i.E!IAI, to dJ"gUE! '"'·i l·h ·!· he fec:ler'i.-11 govet"nrnent dbOiJl:: all of the adverse effects that ·1-hr:! changes ·in fl.ot~J i·hr·ol.tgh 1~ri. lJ

No. 17 R828

h i:t v e on m-i n i. n g ex p l cH' a r· -j on , s i .n c c it :is going to go frorn, tAle br:!l·ipvP., $/6 . S lni.l.l-ion Uris yer:tr

to over $35 million next year . But, .:1s r ~;cri d ··in IllY l cd:h:~r-s l:o

the Mini~ter of Mines and the M:in ·i~;tct' of Fi.nr'\nce, r:~nd r:1s rny

co]Jc~rlgue sc:dd in hjs Jt::~ttr::!lns, we

e1 r e g o ·i. n g t o 1~m 1·: c h ·iJ. tJ c r y c l o s c 'l y .

MR. ~HMMONS:

() S l.lpplf.~menl-.cu· y, Mr . Speaker .

MR . SPFAKFR: A supplernE:Hl't:.i'..1ry, thE! hon. the m<'!ITlber for· For t:1me ·· HE:H'rni. I·.: age .

MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker, I think the rn i n :i s t e r 1 s i. n :i. t .. i a J. o b s e r v a t i. o n l~k1 s COY'InE!Ct:. Judging by lAJhat lAJe just

hear·d, Tor anybody E:'l.se -in thi.s

House could teach hirn a few lessons on rRX reform. The difference between him and mE! is i·.:hR 1·. t lec1rnE:!d fl"orn my

expe:1r:iences . NoLlJ, lE:'t rm~ talk about hi.s experience.

Mr· . Spcr.1l< c1n, had he r'l c c cpi·yd -

MR. YOUNG : A ~;k me a qttc:~ s i : ion .

Ml~. SIMMONS: T h atJ c q 1.1 e s +. i . o n s f o r af ·t-c~r·, but T tAJant to 111 i. n i ~; 't': e r f ·i r ~; i· .

If he had ~ccepted

SOMF HON . MFMRERS : Oh, oh!

MR. SIMMONS :

the ud n i ~; i·c1"

get to th:i.s

WhE!n you are ready. When you are ready.

r-1R. MORGAN : Very interesting .

MR. SIMMONS: t see hE! 'i.s back rl"OIII CLJba, Mr· .

L829 AprjJ 15, 1988 Vol XI

Spnalu~r .

Mr. Spr~akcr, for· i:hc M·i.n i ~d: E!r' of Mi.nE!S, if he had accE!pt.E!d an ·i nwi ·iJ1 h on ycsh:~r·dr-1y t·o I·: hE!

Prospectors and Developers A~;~;ocir:ti"ion meei:·i. nq he t•Jould hi.'tVE>

had a VE!ry d'.i fferE'!nt vi.E!tAJ than l·w doc~ s nOtAl .

I ask the mi nist er: Giuen that Hw Mi n ·i. s l:cr of F-i.nan c e l <'tS t: JqnE•

rnade changes in the earned d c pl.eti on al.lohJance td~d c h JAJi J 1 effectively t,uipe it out lAd thin a year· or so or·ig'i.nally 1989, not•J

1990 -

.MR. MORGAN: Ask i'l quc,~sti.on!

MR. SPEAKER : Order, please!

MR. SIMMONS: Take your time .

MR. SIMMS: It is not your tirne, but:. t.he llou sc 1 s i ·irnc .

Mf~. SPEAKFR : Order, pl c,~RS~~!

MR . STMMONS: r f rny fr· :i end, just hold hi s r· o ·i 1· .

IIIIJ c o u·; -in, I•J OtJld

b r· (o! at h I 1~10 u l cl g I'''+·.

I a s. k the M i n i s t er· of M i nE! s : c-i.tJ e n U1 ~1 l : the rni ni s l:e r· Fe d era J. ly last June madE! thoSE! chan~JE!S, is he SE!r:i ousl y 't:E!l] ·Lng th i.s Hcwse

that the $35 mjlJ.ion projected explorat'i.on t.:h "is ye<:lr' -L s go··ing t.o

be untouched by that, that hE! is f·.:(;~].J.i,ng US i·:haL, (o'VE!n IAJith l::he depletion allowance wiped out over H1e next: I':IAJO years, IAJE:~ c•·~n s t i 'll expect gradual growth :in the ratE! of explorRlion i n !':h i s Province? Is he tE~1ling us, ·Mr. Speaker, ·l.:ht:·tt the h•JO <H'r:• unrc·~l at·ed? rs h(,~

No. 17 R829

I:E:!ll..i.ng us thai~

allowance cutback t h·i ~;

will depl.el:i on have no

c,~ comomic "i.mpacl~ on cornmunit.ios like Baie Uerte and Springdale and D e e r L a k E! , a n d o 1.: h ~' r· s , IAJ h i. c h h a v e a fa :itnly large exploration supply component?

MR. SIMMS : Would the mernbEH' rE!peat t. hE! qUE!St.ion?

MR. DINN : Mr. Speaker .

MR . SPE~KER :

The hon. the Minister of Mines .

MR . DTNN: Mr . Speclker, obviously the han. gt:~ nl·lorrli'1 n no1~1 ·i~; conf11~:;ed

li"ifiiSE:~]f. Ldst. year· t.o~Jhen T tAlent bc~fo1n c~ H11~ F.~d : irnai ·.C's Commil·h~c T mdde a projection on how much r:!xplor·.:ti ·ion IAJould be don·2 in Nc~wfoundJcHld. And at tha-t time I sc:\'id <.·lboui·. $/.S rrrillion.

MR. SIMMONS : With the allowance.

MR. DJNN: We actually hit $26.5 million . We had flow through and we had the depletion · dllowanccs and everything in place.

The Minister of Finance did not mak~' any changes tn June. Wh<:d: he did L~Ji'J.S hE! put out a White PapE!r and that Whi~e Paper recommended CEH'tain changes. We w~Hlt br.1ck to i:he M:i.n 'i s l·er· of F .i.nr.~nr;(,~ dnd he did rnake some chdngc,~ s. He did not go back i~ o exi'1ct:ly I,1Jh.•1i: i:hey IJ.Jf:~rc

pdor· ·t-o June, 1987, but he did rrti-\ke ~;orne ci·J,:~nges . ~ .. IOIAJ I•Jf! IAJOitl d 1 ".i k 8 to s ~H:~ i l":. ~:! x a c -tJ y the way it I~JC.:i~) FH'·ior i·o June, 1.913'7. I11IC elf'(!

~~oj ng to bE! rnonj to ring l":.he ~dtur:1 ·1: ·ion i:o rnake s11re i:hd1· ii-there are problems that we can -Lncl ·i C•"'+·P I.~Jhr.~l: :- he pr·obl f!ITI'> dr'e and

1.830 April liJ, 1988 Uol XL

hopE:~fully get HH~ M i n.i. sh:~r of Finance federally to change his mi.nd, becausE:~ IAH:~ do not· likE! wh at: he is doing.

But I do say to thE! hon. TTIE!TTibE!r t:hr.qt~ this year·, 1988, E:'Xplor·at.::Lon in Newfoundland will top $35 rn:i.ll.:i.on.

I'-1R. SIMMONS: With the allowance .

MR. DINN: WhethE!r the allov.JancE! is LhE!rE! or· nol· br.\sed on

SOME HON. MEMBERS : -- -Oh, oh!

MR . DINN : Wait now!

based on Lhe information that we ho':"IIJ(! i"i gh1: I'JOIAJ ·H1c:1 1: C:Orrlp<'li'l'i e~; hcHJI;! given to us as l:o IAJhat LhE!IJ l'l.l"E! g o ·i. n g i: o ~; p e n d 1: h ·i s 1J ~' iH' . J u !i; t a s an example, I i:lnnounCE!d yestet"dc~y, T bc;!l."i(~IJf!, l·:hi"ll: lher·r;! IAJOI~J.d be a $3.5 million programme in Daniel's l·iar·bour·. The~ hon . LhE! rnE•tnbc,:•t'· fr•o 1n Daniel's Harbour will be ·inl·.:eresi:ed -L n t:hai". Tt~Jo tn-i11Jon of that will be spent by Nev.~jelds

M:iner·i'1ls Tnc . anrl Teck· lkli.l l LH=! spending $400,000 or $500,000 that they promlsod under dn agreement with the government for the r·ei'\c 1-:i va t: ·i on of Dawi. ~~l '~:; Hal"botJI". The following year they will spend $ 1 . r) m i. l l ·i on .i f l": h ~) 1> 2 1nt ll. -i on programme is successful in find ·:i, ng 7 ·inc.

So ·if ldC 't :nke all of i : ho ~;C:! and add them dll up, then we will f i nd 1:h;qt: i·h·i~; yr.r:\r, 1.9Bil, '"JC! ~~rill ~li'IUC::!

about $35 mJllion of inuestrnent in r:!xpl nrr'li · ·jon ·in Nci~JfOI~ndl i'Hld. And t:hat is IAJhc1.t: tAle haVE! donE:!. That. i s I~Jh<.·l Y 1~1e d ·i d l i:l s i· 1J c:· <'~ r· •·:·:1 nd l·· hat·. is IAJhat IAJE:' are doing again this IJ r:~ .:-~ r . ~J o 11.1 -, a ~:; 1·. 1J e c1 I" HIIJ p J" e d ··i c l: . .i o n

No. 17 R830

ro

IAJCI S $2 5 rrri_ 1.1. i. 011 , b L1 I· i t a C (: U a 11 y

came out to $26.5 million more L: h d n i)J h H 1· I h ;::~ d p r e d i c 1-: C'! d . T. '"'~ rn pr'E!dicting this year that tAJE! tAJi.lJ. haue $3 1:) 111 i.lli on. NOIAJ l:hc hon _

ruP.mber· IAJa5 a J:ittle bit :.keptical 1. ~ ~; t-_ y e <:1 r , and T. k n OIAJ he i s

:.keptical agaJn this yectr. But the,~ f;'lc: 1: of I· he rnf.IU-er ·i ~; th.~tt: l:he

one yc'!c<lr' ·!·hat T mddE:' a pr•ed~j ction ·j 1: c rllll0. () 1.1 t·_ f i·d l" 'I IJ r'l c c II r· c:\ h~ . () ~; i·:'\

matl:E:~1·· of fact, i-t:. was mor·e than I h il d fll'' (~ d ·j c -1- !'! d .

.~QOYI..f. : $1.~ million ouer.

MR. OT.NN: Yes, $1.5 m:iJlion ouer· . And this ye;u· T. arn say .i.ng $35 rn·iJ.J.·i.on .

MR. SIMMONS : And nE!Xt. y~:!ar? ·

MR. DINN: Well, I i)Ji,ll knot)J th i.s -t-:.i ITIP next

year . Stay tuned. Because next year, if L:he hon. the Premier leaues me in the Department of l'-1i. n e s , '-'JE! 11.Ji. 11. pI" o b a b l y t· o p HH:~

$'>0 nr.llJion.

SOME HON. MFMBFRS: lie~ rH', h n r'll" !

Mf~. fHNN: Rut-., Ml". Spc,~akf!l", ouc:~l"

couple oF yr,~r:n·s, ~;incc T m:i ncs, LAJe he~u~~ gone m i ll ·i. on i· o $ ·t r.:, 1n-i. ll ·i on

mill ion, and next year it ClJE!n rnol"e .

MR. SPEnKER : Order, please!

thE! pas 1-c.-~tnc ·i ni o fr·orn $8 ~~ 0 $ /. (j . ·~)

could be

HIE:! han. thE:~ member for the Strait of Belle Isl.c.

MR. DECKER : It is too bad the Minister F Lnanc<:~ (Mr. W'i.ndsor) do(:'S rna k e better prE!dJ. ctions, l i. k E!

of no I: his

1. 8 3] Opri.l lS, 1988 Vol X I

c:ol.lr,~ agun. My question, Mr. Speaker, is to the Minister of F:duc:dl: ·ion (Mr . Hr:~iH'n). ThE!Y'('! ai"E! two mE:~thods of funding for· school bw;r,~s ·in Nr'!IAJfounc:ll.<'lnd, T <'11fl StJr'E! the minjster is aware . One is for bOdi"c:l OIAJnr;,d biJ~)C"S, I~Jhor· ~~ l::he

gouernrne:'r1t: pays 100 pE:~r CE!nt. of ·t:he cost.·, nnd t- he other' ·is for

contracting out, where the board hr'l~) ·t·o PdiJ 10 pC!l'' cen1· lr\1()111 d HH'!

m:ini.ster explain lAJhy t.i'IE:! sarnE:! f () I" rn ill r'l () f f I I n d ·j 1'1 CJ . i ~; n 0 t u ~; e d F 0 r' both ~ethods of busing in NE:~I~Jfoundl clnd?

MR. SPEAKER: Thr,~ han. l::he Mi nj_ ~;t:or· of Educat::i.on .

MR. HEARN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

SomE· time ago, LAJhE!I'l LhE• gouE•rnrn(:!n l::

s t·_ar· ·t-r::!d ·1--o pr·ou·i c!C'! fl .tncl·.:i.nq l:.o

operate busing in the Prouince for S C h 0 0 l_ ~) [-_ U cl C:~ l'l ~: S , i -!-.: IAli'l S c! 0 rl l'!

strictly by gou E! rnrne nt c:d:. 1·:. hE! Li rne thro11gh t-. hH boar·cls, c·\ s ·i. t. ··i:;. st:L11 done, on a 90/10 basis. A boar·cl

l. i'lbr-c.u:fr:d' West· , T bC'!l i e uE:' , IAld S I:: he

or·:igi.nal one ·- Cdrne :in and sc-Li c1 1-hc\1-- t· br-) y co1tlr:J opE•I"i:'li · c i'l sysl::l'' i'fl

more E!ffic:il"!ntly hauin~:J morE:· c o n 1: r· o l o F 1 h n !; y ~; 1- c rn , ~~ I c . , I~ h a n

thE• pi"e se nt sys I:.EHn, and on an cx per·· itw~ni ·;-11 bils·i~; I hc:y lm'r'P g ·i.ur:!n the go-ahead to do it. Because it co'; i s i h c b o ,_.1 r' d c x I: I" .-1 ·i n r' C:' 1 i~l [·_ i on

to administrative costs, and so on, l ·he 10 pc:~l" ccni· ·inpu-1-· 'l:.hat··_

they would put in or·d~i nari1y t~1as

C! l i rn -j n a +: r'! d . ~) ··i n c I'! I· h r:1 I_ +· i 1 n c <'I

numbe ~ of other boards haue gr·r.~duall y (:a ken ouer· UIC'' i r· o t)m

busing. Last year· t)JE:' had boards ·in 1.: 1•10 llli:\jor· ;u·eas of t-.he Prou:inCE! corn:ing logE!thE!r, thE! InLE•gr-at:ed bodrds ,.,,nd t·.:h~:~ Rolndn Cal::holJ. c

Boards on thE! Burin Pen:i.n s u1a and Cor·n~:H' Rrook, t.o do the sarnE> thing. It is gE•tUng t.o the point ncH~J l•lhE:' r'e e1 r.lUtnb er of boar·ds arE• inuolued in runntng l:heir own

No. I 7 R831.

:.y:.tcrn and they helve been gtven :··. he same ·i. nc:~n+:i t.Je i:lS I hr~ ori g·i.ni:ll board. Talld ng to people in ·the E!dl.lcai:i.oni:ll. field, Lhey fP.el, r.l.~;

1.~1e do notAl, also, that perhaps tt. do~'S not t.akt=:~ 10 pE!r' cent of th,,~

total transportation budget to coVE:1r c;tdmi.ni.sl:r·at "ivl'::~ cosl~s and so, and therE:~ seems to bE! a dtscrepancy. WI':~ iH'!::~ awarE! of i.t, it is being addressed, and we will hAve more to say on it tn the very near ftJtur·e.

MR. DF.:CKF::R: a Supplementary, Mr. Speaker .

MR. 3PF.:nKER: The han. the member for ·the Strai.t of Belle Isle.

11-1 l~ . I) F C I< F R : Mr·. Speaker·, a:. thE~ rn.i n.i:.i:.eJn :.e1ys, i·l·rt:! boc'H'c:h dr·c doing i I· 'nore '~ff:-i ci en-t-1 y, apparE!ntJ y. This is h -; s de p ~' r 1-:~nr'! n I· ' !; ·; n i· f'! r· p r r:!'l: .~, l~ ·i on . J a~; k t.ht=:~ m:i.ni.s tE~ if there ar'(.;! boar·ds i.n th·i s P1nc:nri nee 1£Jho rH'0.

not us.ing thE:! most. (o1ffic:i.ent, Sclfe IAJr:\ y I·() () p r~ r· i'l 1·: fo~ ~- c h () 0 l b II!;('!!; ' I· h (:! n why has the governernnt not d:'i.r·<-:~ctE!d 1:~"ll. ~;chool bo;"trds lo accept the most efftcient, safe L•Ja.y to bus ch:il.dr·en? I do not seE:~ thE! point :in allot.~dng this to cont'i.n1.1e. By h-is <'ldrwi.s~don t.hE!r·e are boards that are not busing their children in the most (~fficient tAJay, so lAihy hclS he not directed all boards to take the most effic:i.ent way to bus their children?

MR. SPEAKER : T h 0. h on . U1 E! M i. n i ~; h~ r of F d u c a ·1: i on .

MR. H E.A RN: Mr. Spr,~c:-~kcr·, <·1~; w;11al i·hp hon. rnmuber· lAic~s not 1.-istening ve1ny r: l c i'\ r·l I) I 0 I~J h ,., i: r ~; cri d . T ~; r"i .i d the or·jgjm:~l cl.ppl"oach fr"om school bo~:n·ds <:; l".i'l I cd i hr:11· I ~ hey, t-hemseJ.vAs, in ti·H:'iJ" perception,

1..832 n p r· -; l 1 s , 1 g 13 a Vol XI .

could run a cheapt=:'r and rnor·E~ r,~fficif.!nl ~>t:~rtJict~. r di.d no1~ s;·~ y

that we said it.

TherE! has been a fair amount oF . cJ iS CIJ S S ·j 011 r·e CE!ITLl y abClll t t: ht=! board run bus system cornpcH'E!d l·:o the coni::r·act.t=!d out sysi:E:!ITI. Th~:!lnE!

are pluses and minuses for each one. Thc:~t ·i. ssiH:~ i.s pr·t~sently

being studi.ed, as a matter of fact i n s om E! d e t a :i. l , a n d , a s r s cd. d , IAI r:?. wj.ll have morE! to say about :i l c~t a l.ai-.e:~r di'l+:e .

MR. DECKER: Mr. Speai<E!r .

MR. SPEAKER : () f i nill ~;11ppl r~lflr:!nhu·y, I hE· hon. the rnernber for the Strait of Belle r s 1 f'!

MR. DFCKFR: Maybe the minister wi.ll tell me h OIAI T c ,., n l i ~; 1·: c n t.J ''! r y c l c;, a r· l y

sometirnt:.' out side l:.he HouSE!, but.: l:hai: · j '; c'\rlO·l·i·ll':!r' poi. n·i · .

T ··'I ~; k i h e Jrl i n i ~; i · e r· - a n d l:. h e bottom lJnE• t s t.his ··- t.uhE•n cto,::!S l:hr~. rrrtn·i s l·er· expr~c l: i· o r·E:~rnouc:! 1:-.he discrepancy Frorn Funding t.o school b 11 s opE! r c-d: or· ~; ·; n 1: h i s P r.o v i n c e , the boards and the contractor s? W he:~ n does i·w p l an 1- o r· E! mouE! L h i. s discrepancy? Never mind ex p l.a -L n t ng J~Jhy . 11\lhl'! n lAJi.ll ·.i t-. bE! donE•, so that t.hE! board in Buln~JE!O

B a y d ' E s p cri r· IAJi :1 l. no t:: I:H'! pay t n q fifteen dollars per student for biJ.s.i.ng?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon . !:he rJJ-inisi : er· of FdUCi"tl: i .on.

MR. HEARN: ~1r· . ~)pr:1c'\kf:'l", onn of 1- hE:• t.h·ings complicating the situe1tion at pr·esenl· in r·clal :"ion l· o I:Wi'\l"d:.; combining, as lJJas suggesl·.E!d l;;u:;t I) p .'11" ' lA) i I h 1- hE~

Gander-Conndigre - Bay d'Espoir

No . 17 RH32

Board combining to ser·u-i.ces, r-.:tnd so on on, is the recent study boundaries which is affect c-1 number of thE:' wo1Jld Un·ow a 1 oi-. of into disruption.

run bus t h 1':' ·.-i.r' OI.~Jn '

on board goi.ng to

boards and HlE! pl <:~ns

Thel~r;! iH'P ~~

out cos·!·

nu1nbcr of c:Jj :.CI"epanc:i E~S l"el~ltion io lhr. tll:i ·H1 ar1other d i !; cr· rc~pt'lnc i r~~;

J ei:tdel"S.

MR. FFNWJCK : Mr . Speaker.

MR . SPFnKFR:

cl s 1~1 i l:h

there in of o n e ~; y ~; I· e 111

there are l· hc pay of

The hon. the member for Menihek .

MR . FFNWICK: My ques ·l~ion, Mr·. Spr::'akc,~r. ·i~; For the Minister of Health (Dr. Collins) . My quest i on is this: At the Committee EsU.rnates hearing on thr:~ Dr::~partrnr:Hlt of Hec:~l.Lh seuer·al days ago, the minister, in an arti. c l.c,', I~.Ji:t s quo t·· r,~d F.l s ~; i"ly-i. ng that i:her·e is no nursing shortage in t.he Prou.i.ncr:~ and that ,;, committee report indicated Lhere was only a ? per cent vacancy l"atE:~. The rrrJnister· t.UclS kind eno1Jgh l :n g ··i tJP w; a copy of· I- he report yesterday and, having 1 0 0 1<!-:!Ci ·~l ·l· i i · , J 1~10 II ·1 d C:l ~; k i h (' Mi IYi ~~ter· of lloal t:h to explain tAlhy, ·if thc:;~c ·i •; no nur••; i ng ~; hor I· age, r1

f u] ] 6 Cl p C:' l" cent 0 f t- h 1':~ D ·j In e c to l":, of NtH'~; ·i n g i n h o ~; p ·i i· i:ll :; •'l n d S 3 p r; r· cc-~n·t- of t··he D.-i r·c~ct.or·s of Nur·:.oing i. n l·he l'lllr'~;ing home~; i:lrC, clrld [

quote:', "Tndic<-Jtoing d:is s ai: :isfacU.on tAli 1·: h t h P cur r r': n 1- 1 e tl r.l of n 11 r; ~; ·i n g ;.htff:ing." Ts not., in fact., his iH'gument t:hc:t1 : IAIP. do noi: hdlJC: cl

nursing shortage just. thcd~ tAJE: actui:llly have a shor~~ge of nursing positions and that many rn or· e p o s oi t i o ·n ~; i'H' 1.':~ n E:~ c E:~ s s a r· y ·i n order to E!qualize the work1oad j n OIH' hospi ·~al s, pr .. i rncu"i l.y l::hE! onE:~~;

L833 Apdl 15, 1988 Vol XL

that haVE! been caught J. n l: h 1':'

h o s p .i. t a 1 f r' e E:~ :z e ?

MR. SPEAKER: The han. t.hc,~ MinistE!r of HE!al th .

DR. COLLINS: 1'-1 1n . S p e a k o r , i rt t h e H E! a 1 t. h F~i l·:iwr.li~ e~; T gaue <:·l l~ r,~ porl~ of a pl"E:~li.minary r·eport t.UE~ ~1ot. fr-orn a yr'OIIfl tnr:·ldf) 1.1p of ·1- he ~J11r· s:ing

Association, the Nursing Un:ion, Hlf.' · l\le1~1f Ollnc:ll <'1 nd Ho~; p ·i tal Associat.:i.on, and the [)epar-trnE!nl: of Hnr:tl l: h . ·Thc1.t i ~; ,;, group l:h<:d·. i"k!S

bPE.~n in place now For <'.l nurnbor· of mon ·l·hs ·; ·l:11dy ·i ng Hw nur· s :-i ng

situation in the ProvincP, and t: hE:~Y h;ow r~ p11 1· ·in thr:ll-. pr·e J. irrd. na I"Y

report saying that ther e i s only 2 pr::~r·c c,~nl·· of "'~;~; ·ignc:!d pos·it: ton~~

unfilled i n Lhe h e alth oinst i l::ut i ons. [n oLher words, there are 98 percent filled and thE:~I"e ·i s only ?. per c ent unfil1 e d , so on that basis this group rr::~pol"t:ed Lh;:~l": t.here is not- a critica·J. nur s ing shortagE!. NotAJ tho hon . rrtE!II'lbc,~r· -Ls i'i!S kt ng, a1"e there enough positions a s signed . The way these po s i t ions are assigned is that there is s t udy don:~ by tAJhat-: I•Je r:;:-~ 11. t n l:he Department of Health our nur s ing r:on'; lll t·.i'lnl·s . They go 0111 ... and set'! t.~Jhat ·the lAJOrl<load i s cHld t.~Jha t t h e d(:~rn.Jncl~; drr~ dnd d ··i~:;cu ~:; ~; Lh·j~:;

mathH' wJth the'• hospitc.tl s. Qu:il"E! 0 f 1: c n HH:: r· e i ~; i'l d i f r f'! r· l'! n c (! 0 F opj n i on, I do not say thE•I"E! j s no{ , c'l l'ld I h.:1l · is noi- ~·o b o

tAJonderE!d at . But ·t.hE~ people tJ..Jho cH' (' k I'H)I•J 1 r:: ci g t'! i'l b 1 C ·j l'l I·· h t:' dE~partment. come up, then, and sa y, I'H': r· f~ ·i ~; 1~1h d ·l: lAIC f P r; J t~Klll-1 d be '"'n adequate number - not., shaJ.J we si'ly, i'l rnr.1x:i rnutn rlllmber·, i:·Hl <:H:Ic:!qua t·.e numbE!r - to do the tAJorkload, and i t ·i s u p I· o g o tJ 1:: r n me n 1: I~ h (:• n i:. o fund that number, or fund morE! iF 1:. h e y t.~.ri . s h . [ n u :i E': 1 .~1 o r- 1:: h e f u n d s auaiJ.able to u s , in mo st cases all I~Jr:~ <H'E;~ ablo h) f1.1nd clt. i"JLi.s poJnt

No . 17 R833

·in ·Urne ·is H1c t·hai our nur!:ing

11 s is req11i r·cd.

C.ld 8 q 1.1 tl ·I· C n I,IIOb f.~ r' consultants teJ 1

MR. F F::N~\1 r:CK: Ml" . SpeC'..t k er·.

1'-1 R . S P E (.) K F. R : A suppJ.~~m~~ntary, thE:~ han. the lliC,~inbE! r for M~Hd he k .

MR. FENWTCK: My supplementary, Mr. Speaker, is that we hav~~ a1rer.~dy had another report, released earlier this t.ueek fr·orn Lhe same M"i.nistc:n·, bJh.ich indicated fifty-five nursing p o s :i 1-: :ions s h or t ·· nIH's .. i. n g , n u r s j n g as sist:.ant.s and war·d cler·ks. And +:h~~ r·c,~por·l~ thcd~ l~ld!> t.Hblc:~d by l·:hF! Min:i s l:E?.r' yes tE!rday 1.uent on t:o indicdl·' (:' t·hiJI·: Fl'!llJ ·in!.>1·il·ui·· ·ion!; 11:;c ~l IAJor·kJ oad measurernE:Hlt or· pay and cl,:~s!;ificdi·· ·ion S':J!> 'i" r:'lrl r·hr'11· is ddequ<'.lh:=! .

Wollld ,~gr·ee

(Alhi'l t_

not i·hi'\1 · t IH:~

t·h~~ M:in:i.stc:'r', ·thoE!n 1

he r·o,'lll y h<·l s no r'E:!asonclbJ E~ number·

·j d cr.l of

r11 1 r· !; 'i. n g p o !; U ... i o n s iH' r-~ i n h o '> p i 'i:i.·l ., s !: ·i nee" IAIE:! have ali"E!i'ldy held an ·inclical·ion l:h;::~i·: l · h::~y .--n·e 11p l·o ~~o

jJ(:~r·cent IJI'lderstaff~~d in one major n11r·~;-ing horne i . n t: h ·is Prr)l)inr:P, and the :interim report frum his comrn:i.tt·er,~ i'il~;o ·ind:i.ccd:E:~!; U1i'li: he has no effective measurement a v a i. l a b 1 e t: o d o cHI ad ~~ q 1.1 a f-E,~ j o b of clSS(:~Ss:ing nu1ns:ing jobs in all the r·E:!st of the hospi. l~.als -Ln the P1novince?

MR. SPEAKeR: The hon. the Minister of Health .

f)R. COLLINS: Mr . SpE:~<:lKF!r, J gur:~ss I~Jhc:'t'i': 1~1e r.~r·e

getting into here is an u n d e r· s L:t n d i n g i · h i:l l-: 1·:1-w h r,~ .:tl i · h c r.t r r:~

:.ystern :is a uery dyndrrdc system. Thing!; c-l.li'tnge cp.1ii·.r'! ofi:cn, H1e IAICH'kl oad changE:~s, the typ~~ of work ·l:h,'ll : hw; h) be done c; ha nge s, Hw

1.834 April Pi, 1988 UoJ XL

r:l ·i s 'i:r' ·i b 11 1: ·i on oF s e r· lJ'i c e !; r.u" o I.II'H~ the Province changes. It is a u e r y , tJ e r y d y n cun-i c:: !; y !'> t c rn , ~: o y o u cannot say at OnE! po:i nt and t.J.me, ye!;, T knOIAJ <'Ill i'lbOIJ{~ l·hc;! :;yst·ern, and just J.eave 'it thE!re and do no mor'P 1 r:~r:-tr·n-i.ng, or· no Jnor'E! -i ntJe~; l: i g?.ti: ion or anal.ys:i.s.

We:1 ;:~, .. ~~ doinq anctly~;i_s and SCc!t.tj.nq up groups, and t:he one I jus L me rll': i . one d ·i s an e:~ x amp l. e , a 1 l thE! time, becauSE! it. j s a UE!ry changing ar·rangement. and you have to k ·1$.E! p ad j u s t i n g and y o u h a v e to hH! p , s h a l.l. IAJf:~ s d y , alter :in g your guidelines in view of new c ir·ct.nnstance:; as !·:hey <n·j SE~. I do not think, 1.1.1hen thE! study is donE!, t-_ h <d: IAJP. C iHl ~; t:•l Y f'!'l i'l [·: IAJP l'l OIAJ k l'l OIAJ forever and a clay all about n 11 r· !; ·i n 9 ·i n 1\J e 1 ~~ F o u rHfl a n d , 111 1 l· 1 '.I('! wilJ. know a Jot more when th is sl- lld':J ·i:; cornplt-::i:cd . [ hope -il: will be completE!d sornE!'f:irnE• in l .hE! 1rrid Cr' l,,ll :e Sllllllllf!r', dl'lci [ l· irink il­is going to be a uery :i.n - depth s 1: 1.11:1 y . 1,,1 h c n i.· h ''' 1: ·i !; c o rn p 1 H 1·: l:! cl T l:h:i.nk 1.t1e 1Ar.i.l1 knOIAJ a Jot rnorE! t:.hdn I~JC knCliAJ 1'101~1, · b111 · [ <:trn Cjll i· i E! SIII'E! l:.hai: tiAIO YE!al"S hE:'nCE! I.AJ(c' 1.1.r:.i.lJ neE=!d lo do somei :h -iiV:!J Pl:;c l·o lr'!cH' n E!~JEHl

a little bit more about it.

MR. FENWICK : Mr . SpeakE!r .

MR . SPEAKER : A final supplementary .

MR. FENWICK: My final supph~mE!nt:.ary is: On p a g e LJ. o f H1 e r· E! p o r· t 1: h E! y i n d 'i c a 1:. e that :i.n E!XCess of 30 per cent of' the grr.tdual·:es of one of l::hE! St . John 1 s nursing schools for the yei'lr's 1985 ctnd 1986 hauE~ not•.J l.E!ft the Province. And the I~E!port gOE!S Ol'l 1-.o ·indic<:tl"e "ii: "i'; br:>CaU~)('! Or staff shortages :in the hosp:itals, primdr' ·ily ·in :)1· . John 1

:;, ..:·ls a result. of the freeze.

No. 17 R834

MR. SPF.AKER : 01nder, plE:~aSE!!

MR. FENWTCK: Will the minister undertake to look at the lnterim report and see if s om e of the r E! co rnm e n d i-l t. i o n s i t. has rncuh~ f.lbout·: pult. i ng add i 1'. i.onc'l.l.

permanent positions in, especially in hospitals in St. John's and nLn·s:ing homes in St. John's which h (.·\l) 8 b r,~ en ~; 1.1 b j ~1 c: t h) r.l r r· r,~ e z ~~ f 0 r

clbout three years Jn terms of l:h(dr b11dge1·~;. lo sc-~e iF 1*~ c: .. 'ln tcli<E-1 '.init:ia.J ~:'l:.E:1p~; h) alleviate.;! t·.hr.~ nur~;ing ~;horl ·. r.1gc~. t)Jhr:~ther yotl

caJJ :it cA :.hor·t.r.tge of nur~:es or· a s I'HH' i:i'H.F! of ntl r· !; ·i ng po !; ·i I· ·i. ow;?

MR. SPf.(.)KFR: l'hr:~ hon. I· he M·'i n·i ~;'l:r,1r' of Hr,~r:,-1 t h .

DR . COI .. LTN3: Min. Speaker·, immediately bE~fore I caJIIe i:o HlP · itoi.ISf.! Hlis mcH·rl'ing T had a confer·ence call t.uith one of t. hE! i. n s t'i. 1: uti on s i n the c-i. i: y , speaking to the Administrate~ on t: h-i. s u o r· y p o i n t: . T h .i s :-i s no ~:

unusual.· These changing s ·i.tu<:lt:·i.ons ar·:ise Hll l~he l:: ·itTIF.!, dnd IAIE! 91"applE! IAJi.th Hwm as t:.hE!Y comE!

u p . T h E! r· e i. s e1 p a r t i. c u 1. a r· , a ~; T am sure hon. members know, s ·i. 1: u a l: ·i on cl t t: h (:' HE:' c'll l· h S c ·i. C.;! ncr'!~; Compl(:'X cd: U·11~ mornt::!nt cHld 1~10 r.H'e grappling with this. It is one of I .. hose tip:; and r:lot/Jns i"hi ngs . T , .. i ~;

C! ~;er·ious matter. We arP not do1~mpl.ay i ng ·i ·I·~; ·i rnpolnl-.r'lnt:e, b111 · ·i ·1:

:1.:. just CHif~ of those Udngs that come up r·er:,trr·r,~nl·:ly, -':lnd ~~~r.~ .:1r·e

gr·flppJ :-L ng 1•1i th i l at t hc,1 pre~; ent l:iHie , L'l!e 1~Jill I~Jor • k 1~riH1 l· he ho:.pita] and I am :.ure we will come 1,1p I•J·il:h •'"l :;r'll'. .'i!;fc.lc-l:or·y ~:olut:i · on.

MR. SPEAKFR: Order, p]ease!

r h e 1:: ·.i me f o r· 0 r ~ 1 Q u E! s t. ·i o n :; h Cl s c~~JapsE:!d.

L835 April 15, 1988 Vol XL

MR. EFFORD : By leave, Mr. Speaker?

DR. COLLINS: There is always another day .

MR. SPEAKER: Orch~r·, pl ~)ase!

T '"101.11 d a+· I.UHlcome to e l r~ lH,~ n HIC:! mb e r·

HadlOLH' Mil.J ~~ r ,:"'~I ·

i·h"i ~; ~;1':~1ge 1 i.l<e ·l" o

the gallery an dC!l r,~ gi:l-1-..i on· Fr·om

and I j t.t.lE! HCltnbour·

~'>OMF It ON. MF.MB E RS : Hear·, hE!ar!

Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees

MS VERGE : Mr· . SpHaker.

MR. SPEAKER: ThE! hon. the Minister o·f Jus ·ticE!.

MS VERGE: Mr·. ~-)pc,~<:lkE!r',

is"sues of I wish to ta ble The Newfoundland

Gazette for· HH:' p?.1r.i od f"' a y 6, 1987 to March 31 of this year i nr:l u~;i \Jf.!. Par·l·. I·L1JO of The Gazette r:onh'l·i ns Sl.iboind :i n<~i'.C''

legislation filed under the S 1·: i'l 1: II ·l- 1-:~ ~; r''i 1'1 cl ~) U b 0 I" r:f -:i_ n d [:- e

Legislation Act. UndE:'r Section 18 or ·l· i'lr'll ' rtc:i · , ,.,,,, l:he lll"ini :;t. eln

responsible for· the Off ice->. of t.hc,~

I c.~ g ·i ~; l d ·I i lJ e Co 11 n s c-: ~ l , T ; nn r· c q u i r· t'' d to table this subordinate l c g ·i !; l r'l L· i o n

Mf~. PEACH : Mr . Spec-lkE!r.

MR . SPEAKER: The hon. t:he Mi.nish~r· RE!Spons:iblE> f o I" N t'~ 1~rf o 1 1 n d l a n d a n d L <:~ b r· ad o r HoiJsi.ng.

No . 17 R835

MR . PEACH : ·r wj:. h to tab] e the repor·i N(:'ll;follndl r.Hld .'\nrl I .:ibr·.-:ldor· C: m· p on>. t ion for· the year i'lnd l986 87.

f>OMF. IWN. r"'EMHFf~S: H r:~ a r , he cl r· !

OR. TWOMEY: Mr. Spr,~a lc F:~r .

MR. SPFAKER:

of the Ho11 ~; ·i ng 198".1-86

The hon. thE! M.i.ni.sh!r of Publoi c Works.

DR. TWOMEY : I wish to tabl.e in the House, Mr. Speal<c:~r, the repor·t of Publ.:i.c: Te nde l"i ng A c: t Ex c eptio'n s for March 1 to Mm·ch 31, 1988 .

Notices of Motion

MR. BUTT: Ml" . Spe:~akc'!r' .

r-1R . S~F()KFf~ : T h E~ h o n . -1- h e M i rd :. t- P r· of C u J t: u r E! , R(;!c:re~ll:·ion r:lnd Yowl ·. h .

I'-1R. RUTT : M r . s p c:~ a I< e r , r: g i l.J e no i ·. i c: e I· h r.1 I· T will on tomorrow ask leave to -j n 1:: rod 1.1 c r-) a b i 11 , '' () n () c: i · Respecting The Public Libr~ry S ~~ r v i. c e t 11 T h e P r· o lJ i. n c r=! . 11 ( B -;, ·1 1 No. 3 1.) .

DR. COLLINS: Mr . Speaker .

MR . SPEAKER : The hon . the Minister of Health .

DR. COLLINS: I give notice that I ,,~.Jill on tomorrow ask leave [·:o ·inl-roduc:P. the folJowjng bills: 11 An Act To Arne:~nd The· Al cobol ()nd l)rllg Dependency Commission Act", (Rill

I 131 (j 11pril 1S, 19flB lJo l X I.

No . /.9) <'Hld "()n NeiA.Jfoundland

()c i· ro Medi.cal

T n ~; 11 r i:Hl c e () cl: " (rl'i. 'l 1 No .

11111end The Cai"E~

16) .

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given

MR. YOUNG: ~1r. Speak(:~r .

MR. SPEAKER : T h e h o n . I· h e M .i. n i. s l:c:H' o f Co n s u rn e r· Affairs and Communications.

MR. YOUNG : I would like to table ansLIJE!Y'S to q 1.1 e s t :i. o n s n 1 H nbC::! r· E! cl 2 S i'l n d 4- '7 o n the Or·de!r Paper, as ked by thE! hon . rnernber For Si· . Bdi"I:H'! (l'-1r'. FtH'C'!Y).

Petitions

MR. I)FCKER : Mr. Speaker .

MR. ~'>Pf:{)KFR :

ThE~ hon. the rnE~mber fol" thE=! St-:.r·a::i t o r rJ c~ 1 1 ~-~ r ~' ., 1,~ •

MR. DECKER : M r . s fH:' il k e. r· , T h"' u 1:' ;:1 p E! t. i U . o n s igned by 212 pE!Ople of t hr-! to1,~.m o·F Rale··igh on ·l·he Nor·l:: h E:! I"n Peninsula. The peti.ti.on i s addressed to the hon. House of Assembly and Parliament Assembled:

Whereas the road to Rale i gh wa s constructed over b.l!E!nty year s ago cwd .is I.AJor· n dol~ll'l l:o t:.he E!Xt.E!nt that it cann o t be graded; and

WherE!aS this road provides a cC E!S S t:o i·hc ho ~;p:i.tal, h --iqh school, shopping centre and fish plant in St-:. (.)nt.hany and serves ~s our l i nk with the world while also prawiding r-u:c:e s s l·:o Ollr' COITII'TitHdl:y and the Pistolet Bay Provi.ncial

No 1 'l 1~13 3 6

Park; and

Whereas the people of Raleigh have bE!('!n r·eque:~sti ng this government for nearly ten years without success;

We I • t: h (:~ c i. t i. z f'!r1 s 0 r R ale .i. g h J d 0

hereby request our government to b ~:! g ·i n u p g r ad J. n g a n d p i'tlJ .i. n g o f 1 h c-~ ten miles of Route 437 referred to as the Raleigh Road during tho St1rnrne:~1" or" 19 8 8.

Mr· . Spc,,akcn·, I bel i r,~t.lr~ ·i 1: 1~10111 d be perfectly in order today to COITJpl.iHH'!I"ll· 1- hr.~ pr~ople ol- i~dlc~·igh

for· thP nppr·oc.tch t·lwy ar·r:~ taking. Pr·,;\ct:icnlly etJcr·y J·. ·i11w IAJ~-:! ·J·11r'n on

0 1.11" 1" fl d :i. 0 0 I" 0 IH' 'f (:~ 1 e Vi!: :i 0 11 t: h (:~ S E! d ,.q y ~; I•H:~ h r~ iH' .:1 b o t.l'l· p e o p l r.~ b ., o c k i n g h:i g hr·oad f. .

l.'ll e:~ I" c~ 111 f~ 1 n b e r· -, <:1 ~; 1- y r,~ r'"l r o 1 1 l". ·i n l h e B P J. J e v 11 P dis t r :1 c t tAl her· e t.: he p E! o p 1 e I~JfH' e so rh~ s FH:~ r '" 1-. e H1 <'It. ·t-. h r:! y h i'l d 1: o get out and bJ ock thL::d r· roads, Mr. SpPal<c:!r', - .i.n or·der· l··o dr·~\IJ.J ~;orne

at ten t:ion to the problems they I~.JE!Y'<'! hav"i.ng. nJ"i S IA{C:ly NeiAJfoundJanders have learnE!d is the only way they can get- any attention · from this govE·rnrnent., to gE! 1:: 011t. and have,~ c i vi.l disobE•dj E!nCe.

But the ppopl.e of Ral.eigh arE! not t. a k .i. n g r: h Cl I~ a p p r· o c.~ c h , M r· . Speaker. That is why I believe 1~hi.'lt- Hri~; HousP. · CH•JW> 'l:hf.'HI d

compl imAnt, They iH'O not bJ.ocking r·oacls, Mr·. :)pl,~r.\keln. Thn good peopln of RaJ oj gh ar·e fo) J OIAr.i ng a l:r'<.·1di I~ ion 1~1h·i ch ·HH':Y di"C flr'OIId of. Tt i!: i'.l t-Tacl".it:ion, Mln. Spn;:·\ker, I~Jhi ch I•Je hr·llle -j nher··i U~d fr·om I h(>. nr·:it-.ish CornmontAJE:'alth ~:; y ~; 1: e HI o f g o tH! r· n 1 n f! 1'11 · . r h f' p c o p l e of Ral.E>.:igh t.·oday a1ne as ld.n~J me, H1e ·i r· rnn111ber·, l" o briny l:o 'I: he attention to ·t-he govc,~rnrnent hE:'re a~;sE:~rnblr,~d l·.hp cond··il·.ion of l·hr,~

Rc-1] eigh road.

I_ B 3 7 April. 15, 1988 Vol. X I_

Mr. Speaker, I, morE! ·than any ot:hE!I" per·son :·in thi~: House'! l:oday, arn qualified to teJ.l about the cond'i.ti.on of l.:he Ral.E!i gh road. The Raleigh road has been there for twenl:y years. rt was there when we saw this revolution in NP.IAJfoundl.i:·lnd, shortly aftti:~r

ConfedE!ration, lAJhen IA.Je held the gr'E!dt Pre1noi.<:!r P(:'C!< --- Pr'E>.ITI::i.t=>.r SrnaJ.lwood, Mr. Speaker.

SOMF HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. f1ECI<ER: 1 p •'111 ~; t! d r:l f~ l ·i be I"<:·\ 1·: r-:• ., y , ~11" . Speaker. I thought that would Cdh: h l" ht-:! ·ir· i·1U·.e n ·J· ·ion ,:·HH:I ·i·t- d··icl.

WE>. had a P.r·ern:i E:~l" tAJho tAms bu·.U cl·in~J 1- h i ~; r· rh·HJ "' n rl b 1 1 i l cl ··i n g 1·· h i ~; Province .

T l ookcd .:11: d pr:·1fH'!r I" he o l·: hUI" d1;1y the former Premier had prepared lAJ~H'•n Tf'!l"rfl 7.9 I•J•::~~; be ··i. ng cha 'll (->.ngod, and, Mr·. Speaker·, I lAJas arnaz(:!d at. Lhe r.1moun ·1 ... of consl.: r'IJCt.i.on l~hat:

had taken place in Newfoundland OVE!r' a h:!n year· pE!r· :i od. It I~Ja::;

unbel.ievabl.e! I think t..he Terrn 29 dispu~e was ten or after Confederation. of cons ·rJ"uction 1--.hc'lt in such a brief

eleven year·~:

The arnounL had gonE~ on pE:! riod lAJC:t s

u n b e 1 i c~ v t:-1 b l. e . T 1: hds nol~ bt'•t:! n surpassed since the revolution ~~~h··i ch t·:ook pl <.·1CE!. revolution IAJe saiAJ i n c 1 u d -i n g U1 ·i ~; r· o .:1 d to St. Anthony.

Dur· i ng ·l .. _hi:;t t. ro<:Ads bui] t,

11p in Ra1E:dgh

This govPrnment has not been able lo n~o:dnl · d ·in lhe roi'id f'"rn111 R<'llp ·igh into St. Anthony, ye l:. this gour-:Tnlncnl: h;·.,,; en.1c ·l· c:rl pol. :i. coiE:!S whereby hospjtals have been c f~ n 1-r-c.1 l :i z I'~ d r h e o nl y 1 n I'' d . i c o:.-t l treatment ~he people in Raleigh r: i'H1 9 c 1: ·i ~; i n i ·. o ~'))- . () n '\: h on y . T h .i ~;

government has brought in pol.:l.c.i.es IAJhC:!r'eby schoo·l ~; nl"r,' CC'!nl:r<:·\1 .i zed. The only schools t.hat aJne

No. 1 7 R837

avaj 1able for thE:~

children of Raleigh Anthony and 1-:ht::~y he1ve o t.J e i" I· h ·i ~; r o i'l d

hj gh school <H' r~ ·i n :-) i · . to b(~ bus E!d

lhc t;Jhol ~~ Perr-i nst1.l <"~, like ·I·· he r'(!~; i:

of Ne1~1foundJ and I :is bc~~ing

c e n '1: r c:t l -i 1 c d by H1 i ~; go tJ(~ r' 11111 f'! n i: 1 ~;

!Jolj c::i c->.s I c1nd ·thE! r·oad:. I~ hat l..t.Jer·e pul-. Hwrr. rl11r· .. i ng I: he retJOllli:·i on in l· h j s P r:o v i n c e c-H' e no t be i n g mr.d n I· c:\"i n P. d .

So the people of R~l.eigh ~od~y are asking .. thi'.lt this road be upgr·aded and paVE!d . Mr . Sp~~dkr~~r, t-.hi'lt is tAJhat I i'lm asking on their bE!ha1f t:odr.,y. Thc1t: ·is t.ht'! pE!t"i.t.i.on I i"rn support:i ng. I am looking . fort..t.Jard l:".o ~H~ar·· ing t:h~:! hon. M·ini.si-:Hr' of Tn.lnsportation (Mr . Doyle), when he st .. 'Hlcls up t-odi'ly, say, 1 Y~'s, 1 am going to take this petition f r' 0 rn l: h P. Ill E! III b ('!I" f 0 I" t h C:~ :-) I" Y' i'l :i I· 0 f OeJ le Isle CHld I am going to t.:E!l1 t h e p e:~ o p l. r:~ o f R i'l l. C:' i g h . 1 I il rn e tJ P n gojng to let him make the iHHlOI.I.ncr:'fTifHl 'l-. J am no}. ·i ntr)rcs l:c!d :in rnal<:i.ng etnnotHJcc->.m~~nts. Thc1t j s ~; ;i. l l i n f.~ ~; s ! [ "i'llil m () I" (! ·i n 1·. I'! r' (! ~; I: f> cl :in !;ce.i ng the road LJpgraded and pd tJ cd ·I· h,,, n T ,;wl .. in lfkl k ·i ny s orne pol.i-1-l.ca] point!; about announcing ·il., rJJr·· . Spr'!r'1ker' lh<'li· :i:;

fool·i!:hn~~s!;! That: i!: a gi'lm~:! other' HIC'! rn be r' ~; p l ''~ y . I do no 1: g c 1· i 1'1 v o l v Ad :i n L h a i· nons r:~ n s e .

T l•kHll· i- hr-) mini!;l·er l-:o 111<~kn l·.hc <-.HHlOIJrlcc:!rnNJt tode1y I and I l..t.Ji.11 b~~

pr'OIJd l·o pi''s~; !:ll.ong l:o l·hu (::~ood

people of Raleigh that the rnini. !;I:E!r' -is goi.ng t·o pctvr:~ the:~ir

road.

The1nk you, Mr. Speaker, for ind1Jl.g -i. ng rne .

SOMF HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear·!

MR. EFFORO: Mr·. SpE!d!<r:~r .

1.838 Apr•il lS, 1.988 Uo] XL

MR. SPEAKFR: The hon . Hw tnr:~rnbf! r' for' flo l"t de Grave.

MR. EFFORO: lhr'lnk yo11, ~~r· Spr:~<:d<er .

Mr' . SpPr'lk8r', T l~lr~nl·. '1-.o be r'lble r·o USE! up rny ·l.".ime in suppor·t:ing t-he pt:!i:"ii".ion so nbly pr'8~;c:'ni- E!d by tiiY colleague and friend for the S i-. r a i 1- o f f3 e l . l e T :; l e b e uw ~; e t h i s situation, not on1y tAdth the r·oacls lr:~r:=tcl "ing ·in ·l·o Rdl.E:~ ·igh, b11l:. l:he roads all over the Province of Nc:1cAJfoundl r"'nd dnd Labrr.H:for, "i.s reaching such an emE!rgency r.~nd

. . . i l . l L J ' f'" t I . c r ]. ~; .1. s ~; .I. ~ u ;:, · .: .. , o n · ·: 11 <:t .-: .'1. - s o 1 n E! · .. ·1 J . n g is not done, and do~e immediately, r:=t!> l:hc''• 1nernber· for· t.hE! St:r·a -i 1~. oF BellE! Is1E! has askE!d thE! rn:i.nisLE•r· to do , i 1: i !; go :·i n g +· o I"<:!"~ c h :; tJ c h a proportion that i .t j s qo:i ng Lo b!'! beyond ·i·hp po .. i nt I~JhHr'E! any r·'Lnance or any political form of gover-rnnr-~n1 : ·i . ~; go·ing lobe able l~o

do anything about. it.. The roads ·i n 1" h -i !; P r' o tJ i n c e ''' I" C.:! g o ·i n g I· o b e :in a situation where people are n 0 I· q 0 -i 11 y I· o be •'l b l f) I o I" C! C C:' ·i '! c'•

the form of transportation lhE!y dnsr.:!rtJC or' be nbl c~ l:n rl1~ i tiC OtJer·

these:~ roads. They ar·e no ·l r:!VE!n goj ng i o be ,'tbl c h:: clr i tiC:~ a I~JheE<lbar·r·otAJ or a hor·s r:=• and ca1"l".. o 11 r~ r' ·1 he I" odd '> l. -i k r:! ·1- h r> y d ·i d y e a I" s ago, or even Lualk ovE•r the r·oad!; . I h •"~ 1- ·i !; I· h c s n r' i. o 1.1 s n r:' ~; '; o f i:. h e ~; i l·tJ<:l L ·ion -in th ·i ~; Pr·ov i nee.

lruhdl·. hd'; hi'lppE!I1C:'d l··. o Ci:·ll.I S~'! this sJtuat:ion to deteriorate Lo lAlhE!re i 1: i ~; I: o d l~ y ? T h I'! s i ·I·· u a l: i o n , a s j l:". is today, has happE!ned bE! CausE• of i-:he pol"i.l ... ..-i. cal !;ysl' E!Ifl IISE'd by t:h-Ls adminis tratj on. There has been no f "' .i. r' n e ~; ~; , no ~~qual i I~ y , an cJ no balance USE!d j n the a] location of rnorl-E!Y c~m ·i ng in From HH'!" fC:~d<,1ral.

or provincial Treasury. We have hdd delegations, Mr. Speaker, corning from al1 over thE! ProvincE• of 1\JC:'IAJfOIIndl dnd and l .. r"bl"ddor·. We

No. 17 r~B 3 a

sec::~, :df-ti_ng -in +:hn Gr.1ller·y t-odr.1y, R delegation from Harbour Mille and !-:he same:~ ~;··il-- ucl'l-:i. on --i:; ar··i. ~; ·ing,

the government is not listening to !-:he· crtsts situation ln this

Pr·ovince.

The people from Raleigh have bE!en taking a very serious approach and asking for help, but UH:~Y havE• not bE! E!n t'E! c e i v --j ng any . We,~ ·i.rnp lore and we beg the Minister of Tr·ans por· ~.Ed: ion l:o r·E:~cogn i ?.e hOill ser·ious thjs has groL~m. In E:~VE!ry

dis 1-:ri ci: around Htr,' Prov i nee of NE!!Aif ou nd 1 and and Lab r·ad or t. hc-.l'l: ·is r E:~ prE~ s e rli-: Pd by Op po ~; i 1: -j u n Jne~nb r'! r"; or· by 1- hc->. thtr·d par·ty they have b I'! r:~ n l e r~ 1: ~~ri l h l· 1-ri ·; s or· i · of cond:-i ·l- ion becau~;E~ of t.h:i. s soJ"t oF Jnoney <"·111 ncc:·li: ion, no JflrHJPY IAihc-.. d ::oevc->J", and no rc-~cognition.

l"hr~ M ·i n.i !; I· l'!t' n I l;",'l ns por· 1-- .'\ 1-'i on

ju~t a couple of days ago was pi"P.sr.)rHI'-'!d by U1r> Jnember· For ~)1 ·.

B<'ll"be tArH.h an actual document lllheJ"P. HI!,~ Prr,,m ·i er h-i m:;r'! "l F hc·ld pr·omised to do the roads, and had promised $900,000. llllhat: did the Min:-ister of Transportation do? He compl. t'!t:ely ignor'<'!d i.l·:. HI.'! closc.:.d his mind completely in front of L:he del ~~9<'1-t-.: - i on and i.n fr·ont-. of i· hc,~

member whe~ he knows full well thai: l:hal·: amo1Jn-l~ of rnoney IAJas prorni s E!d.

What: do ~~IE! hr.lVE' 1- o do 1-o gr.d· through to the Minister of Transpor·t-:al-.-ion and i·o get 1--hJ"Ough t-o thE:~ govenHnEHlt? ThE:~ onJ.y lAJay the pE!opl C! of R,:~l c i gh cH'C go i J'l'::J h)

be a b 1 o to E~ v ~HI t~Ja J k over· the s e JnO,~lCh "i ~; "i f ~; Cllll0. ·I· h ·j rJ q i :; d 0 n P. •'Hid done,~ juuned:iclt~e]y.

:1 f i lw M :i n -:i. ~ l ~H' of T r a n s p o Y't.: a t.:1 o n ha~; c'lnlj sor·l- of dcr:r=~nr:y Rnd ,:·tny UJ.I'':i ng lr:d"t ··in h:irn, hE:' :i ~; goi.ng l':o hi'ltJC! h) r:losn 0111· l·he f>ol ·i ·licdl fol"tJrn and r·ecogn:izc,' :imrnE~d:i.at.~>.l.y hE! i ~; going l:o hi·ltJC to p111· soJrH-~ rnonr~y

L839 April JS, 1988 Vol XL.

·i n 1·. h e s c .::1 r n .:·1 :; b e F o r· c I h 1,, c r· 1. ~; ·1. ~;

is b~~yond rE!pair. He knotJ.JS Fu] l J&Jr,~-11 you cc1nnot kr.:!ep shutl~'i.ng

away, you cannot kr:~ep coVE!r:ing up, yo 1.1 can no 1-. do t h .i s , and E! x p E! c t. that it is going to be soJ.vE:!d on i. t s ot.~m . The M·i. n:i s 1-.. ('! r of Transportation knows this full lliC:~ll., becc11.1se tJ.JP. J.~JE!nt thr·ough UJP same situation last year in the t Ollll'l of Mr:'1 k i n sons !ALi. 1- h 1: he wa t E! r situation. He does not ListE•n to i·:he peopl ~).

JVIR. DOYLE : We put a bjg, J.ong stretch of p •'llJ 1,~ men I· d OIAII'l i n ( --j J'li:lll c:l-i b l r,,) l.i:'t s 1--

year·. Are you try:i ng to say J~Je

never·?

1\-1 R . ~; P F A K F R : 0 r· d E! r· , p 1 E:' a s e !

MR. FFFORO: Where?

MR. DOYI E: f) i.d you gP 1·: ·i I~ or· not:?

MR. EFFORD: Where?

MR. DOYLE : o·oiAJn ·i.n ( inaud ·iblE:~) .

MR. SPEAKER: Order, pJ.ec-:tSE!!

MR. F.:FFORD: Defin:i tely not. We d :l.d not gE: t ·i 1-· . r h r,' rn ·i n i s 1-- e r· !< no IAJ ~=; f u 1 l IAJ E! 1. 1 that last year in the d:-istrict of Por·1 · de Cr·,-~\.Je l·hc-J"f.~ J.'Ji"ls not onE!

dolla1n spent on roads, not: on~'!

fi1Je cr.~nl.· p ·inc:e ·in dll i.:hE• comrnunjties . In all the cornwlln:i J·· ·i e s , Mr·. ~)p!C\ ilker, ~- her·e

Luas not foive CE!nts g:.i VE!n t.o a t.OlAJn COIInc-i l l cl~;-i: IJC!<'H' . Tol:d:lly pol'i U cal!

SOMF HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh!

No. 17 R839

MR. F.:FFORD: Roaches Line is not in the d i s t r· i c t·. of Po r· i: cl e G r iHJ e . Roaches Line is in the district of

· Harbollr' f"'ni n, nnd he knOIJJ•; f11ll (AI f~ ] 1 1.~1 J-t (:' r; (:) i t j S .

SOMF HON. MFr"'flf.I~S :

Oh, oh!

MR. F.:FFOR[) : (lnd l:hP. Minis 1-r-::r· of How; i ng kn0111~;

ful J we] 1 IAih~~'"(->. it :i ~;.

Mr. Spectker, j t1 conclusion I tJ..Iould clSK /:he r"'inisi·:e r of rrr'ln~;por•f:i:<~tion

to stop the political block fund:i ng of monE!Y cHJd g i tiP. i 1- 1-.o all taxpayer's of thE! ProuinCE! of NPIAJfoundl and dnd IJ·lbr·Hdor·.

MR. DOYI .. E : Mr· . SpE!aket".

MR. SPE()KER: Tlie hon . the Minister of Transpor ·t-.at i.on.

MR. DOYI .. F : Mr. Sp(:~akel", I am uery p] easE!d t.o respond 1--o lhe ppl·ii:ion prcseni:Pd ·i oday by !:he hon. meml:lE!r For· the S t-. r· i'l i I of R e l l t=! r s l c . (1 ~; T lVI tJ n ~~<'.Lid on a nurnbE~r· of d-:iffE~r-r:Hlt

o c c i'·\ s ·i on'' , T ;•:url FlliJir-1 'J :; p l c r:-1 sed i'l n d alwctys happy to respond to any pel ·ii'ion pre~;cnlnd by liWlilbei''~; on I h:j ~; ~; i d (:' o r ·t- h i' . .d: s i d e , a s lAJ e J J , on behd -1 F of 1-- he ·i r cnn';-1-.·i l·llcn1 ~;

b(~Ci'.W:.(~, genf!l"al1y ~;pt=!alci.ng, a~; I h ;q u e ·i n d :i. c ;:~ h·HI rt n u 111 b c: r· o f I: i 111 r::: !; ,

the problems are legJtimate and IAJor·i:hy of r.l U~F.!ni ion <:wd llJor·i- hy oF a response from me.

At +:he,~ Sdlll~' t· . .i.HIE!, of COI.II"SE.', r"'r. Speaker, I try to block out as much as I can the politics and the partisan statements the hon. gr:~nt:l.(,~lflan rnadr:~ a co1Jpl e of rni.nui~es

ago because it only serues to darnEtgt:~ Lhe c r·ed-i b i l..i. ·t- y of +: hP pr·oblem :itself, Mr. Speaker. So I

I. 84-0 11 p r .i. l l ~_; , 1. 9 B B lJo l X I

do nol·: r;!uen llli'ln1· t--o rr,~spond 1-- o these partisan statements by the hon. gon·l _l r-~mdn bc,>r:au~;c l::hr,1y di"C:•

not really worthy of any great response.

1-i<'.lv:ing sa:i.d that You1" Honor·, a l. 1-.hi~; p;u··t ··iclll,u· ·l: ·irne oF ye;u·, of cot;r·se, tAl~>. r·un into a nurnbel" of f>r'obl r-::1ns r:::speci ctll y i'-\!; i 1· r·el ,~ l--r,1::: to thE! rnatnt.enance of roads . WE~

d r e i n I he i : "L rn (! 0 r y (' d r· Ill h H n y c 1.1

at"e getting a Spt"ing runoff and a ·l:r·ern{·~ndow; i'\lfiOIInl·. oF I"UI'lOf'f frolfl s n OIAJ and IAJ hat h au e you , IAJ hi c h is Ci'\ll!;ing qu ·i-J:(:~ c'l n111nbcr oF pr·o bl.Pms on a lot of grauel r·oads in thE'! Pr·ov ·incr;! IAJherr;! you hdllf:' sort: condi~:ions setting :in· because of IAIC'ta I·: her conch t ·i.ons. HopefuJl.y a great deal of that will correct .i t-. s E! l f lll"i, 1·: h ··i. n a s h o r' 1:. p c'' r· --i o d of time when decent weather conditions prevHil.

In this particular instance, of COIJrS0., ·I·. he hon . gc'•I"Jtl UITiiHl is talking about upgrading and pclUing of 1--.hr-~ l~;:-111,1igh Ro<:\d and t:hi~tt ·i~:; a legitimate concern of the people in 1-h;:-\1- i'\I"Pil. Hr:~ poin !-s OIJI-: Lhal· not all that much money has been ~; p r~ n 1· ·i n h i !; 'I ·i s 1 · 1~ i c 1 n tJ <:! r· · 1· hE· last number of years.

I wouJ d l.ikP to point out.. t..o hoi rn l· h •"'~ L F c.:: rl f1 r· ,., J .:-1 n d pI" o u ·i n c ·i ,,._, l 1 non ··i E! s ouer the last Len year pProiod <:1 l'flO II n ·I !) 1--.0 ''\ p p r• 0 X--i ITii.-1 +· f' -~ ':J ~t) ~)

million tbat has been spent in 1-- hc:\ ·1- pi-lr·l •iclll.·'\r ;:~r·t~''' dnd hopr'!FIJ .. Ily that that funding ~Ali 11 cont:intH:' f n r ~' 01110. i- i rnn 1·: o c ornn .

He also rnE!nt:l.ons t:hE! facl.: thclt it IAJf.·\S bP.'fOr'l':! 1--.h iS <jOliE!F'nlllHI"lt· 1 S di3.':J that most of the upgrading and pauing oF various roads Ln the Prouince took place.

I lAJoul.d 1-.i kE! to· po:.Lni: out t.:o hoi.tn t.hi. s c arnE•

also +·.hat· s ·inC("! 197'), s-LncE~

part-icular administration

~.Jo . :1 7 r~ 8 4-0

:into potAJE:H', t-.he department has bwill· , 1wind yo11, ?,7.00 kilo1nel:res of road costing $234 million in i·:h i !; Pro1Ji.nce. I Hli nk Hli'll: ; ~ ; r.l

sizeable expenditure for this go v E!t' nwP. n i·· t:o h;:w 0. u nd e r-t:cd< C:! n. In addition to ·that., 1, 700 kilometres of road a-t: a cost of approximately $14-S mill.ion has been E!Xpended by this government and 233 br .ldges put in at a cost of $S5 million.

Mr·. SFH~ake:~r. I l:h··ink thdl dernonstratE!S beyond a shadotAJ of a doubl~ thE:' comrn-ltlllt=!nl": th<'lt l:his government has to providing a decnnl~. transpor·-t-.at"i.on rH:~i": t~Jor·k for· the people of the Provincp.

[1-. is l.Jf:~r·y. unfor·t".l.ll'li'll·c, +· h;~t'l: I•H~

cannot addr·e~;s all of t.he pl"obl c->.ms i n <:'1 n y o n r. g i v c n ,u· r~ Ft b 1 1 1-. } h '" i · i !;

alt~l<'.l.YS <'~ probl ern IAr:i th fundj ng, Mt". s p 1':! Fl k C! r· ; ''l n rl 0 r c 0 I I t' !; (! ; I· h j ~; ':1 C! •:11'"• 1,1e hc~vc-~ ct pr·ogr·amnll'::', both a pr:ol)"i nc i <'11 Find f<-~dP.r'd] pr·ogr'•'lllllllt:!, lll h : i c h t s g o :i n g -t-. o c:un o u n t. t. o ~; orne $Br; 1ni.ll ion l·o $90 nri ll ·ion <Hld hopefully I Mr· . Speaker, as time goes on, 1~:r:! tuill. be,~ Hbl.e i ·o addn=!~;s aJJ of thE! J.egittrnate pr·obl r,~IIIS l··h,'l1· .:1 number· of cH'Cc'<'IS of the Proujnce has.

Aga:in, I have to rernind the hon. gentlemdn that we do have 8,600 kilometres of road in the Province '-'1nd aboul·: SO pc,~rccnl:: o·F t:h~~SI:' are paved. Nothing, belieVE! mE!, l.I.Jou1d sat ·isfy or· mal<<:' happier· t-.he Department of Transportation, or l::h ··i s goVE:'rnnmni~ t··.han bwi ng abl C'! ·i··.o pave every single road in the Pr·ovi.nce 't-.h<::~l·. I~Je hdl.Jfc' ~1 pr·obl!'!lrl with.

A s Li JIW go c s on , M r . S p e .:1 k r:! r , T a 111 ~; u r· c-~ 1: h :i. ~; go v e r· n mE! n t c o u] d cl c h :i ~~ v E:~ l·hdl '"

Th<::~nk yo11 ur!ry 111t1ch

flo1R. SIMMONS:

1.841. Apr·oi.J lS, 1988 Vol XI

Mr. Speal<c->.r .

MR. SPEAI<ER: The~ hnn. the rnc;!rnber For· Fortune-Hermitage (Mr. Simmons) .

MR. SIMMONS: Mr . SpE:'akr.:>r, I am 'Jery pl.eaSE!d to present a petition on behalf of about 4-00 1nes i.de:~nt.s of HadJOur Mi11E! and Little Harbour East:, t:Lllo con1rn1.1n.i. t.L(~~; ·i.n thE:~ d'Lsl·.ri.ct. oF Fortune - Hermitage.

(lsI indical:.ed 1':<1 l:: hE! M·i.n.ish:!r earlier today, the petition is a b o 1 1 ·I· r o A d !; a n d I a rn ~: u 1n 1:'! h e 1~1 ·i. ·1 l. l.I.Ja n t ~ as he is doing I to g ::i v E! ear· i·o Hw b111"rlcn of Hw pr'i"tyer of the pe1:··i t·i.on.

Fdr·l i ''~ r· l·odo1y 1l·J('! nr-i. n·i s l er· 1~H1 ~:;

kind enough, togE!t.heJ" lAJ·.:i.t:.h onE! of h ; !' c:: r r ·; c ; d 1 !; • 1 h c~ 1'1 ~:; !> ; s ·I·· i'l 11 :

De p u t y M :"i rd. s L r~ r , to rn C:'! E:! t lAri t h rn u <'\ tl d IAJ j j h C 1 e lJ (! l'l p (! () fl l C f r·· U fTI 1-: h (' tllJO. COITIITIUI'l:i.'l.".iE:~S lAJhO C:H'E! :in the Ci'll ·1 cr' :1 I h·i !; lnor·wi nr3, hr:HJ i ng got ·ten up at. an ungodly hotH' and hi'll,J ·j nq cit' j lJC:!I'l !-or' i· hr'f:'C! l .0 f"our· hours t.o bE! hE!rE! in tirne for· t.heJ1" fi.r's1·: rnc'!r:!t··ing at: c-:· ·iqhi· - l:.hir·l~. y t.h"i.s morning. They aLJ loa k s U 11 qtri l:e 1~ri dE~ i'\1Ak1kr,~ and l.'Jh('!rl yo1.1 hHar t h e ld. n d o f r o ad t h e y h a v E· c Oil I e over·, you !A!i. l.l undE!t'sl:.and IJJhy th(~y

are v E! r y tAli de at,o..Ja k e , evE! n :if t. hE! y llJE!r'C:1 noi·. 111hen l::hE!Y l E:'F ·I:. hornE!.

Thl'~s(;! E:~lnven

Mr. Speaker, !ci 1 omc I~ res consti tutE•

of road, one of

F 01.1 r· road h<·1lJ n rna st.

!; f:~ c I· i. on ~; o f u E~ r· y b r::t d g r· a ~J P 1 in the district about. Lllhich I spoken hr'!ln«·~ many t. ·i1n1:', ·l··.hp recent tirne being about a

I~H:1 1"! k or ~; 0 dgO

The prayer of the petition is that !;1··.nps br·) ·:··.i'lk1:!n l·o i1n1nr:!d"La+·ely upgrad~>. 1~.hose Pl.PV('!rl lei] ornE!tl"eS of r· o c·u:f i" r' o 111 I ·i I· I l1-~ flc·1 y F .:·1 ~; ·I · iH' o 11 n cJ t·he Br.l.'J cJ 1 Er.J.st: arr~a and :inl:.o I ·i +· ·I l <·) :I ··'11" b o 11 r F •'1 '; i·· r·1 n d H <'I I" buIll"

No. 17 R8Lt.1

Mille:~. This morning, ~s the minister will be aware, we met l.~l"i.l::h h.i.m and the delegation Rt 1 hat U me highlighted three concer·n~>.

One:1 of ·i·hr. concer·w; ·i ~; nmbod·i od ·in t-h:is petition, the:~ 1'1(->.C::!d i:o upgrEtcle. Thr,~ other· l:1~1o ,,Jr,1Y'R i·he nc-:~E!d t·o do :.ometh:i ng irnruediately db0111· 11-W Sil:lldl·ion 'f. r.':1 "i:;nd IAJ'il.h i he rrri n:i ~:har· h<-H'P :in -t-he Hou~:e:! a

111 P. e k o r· '' o <.~ g o I ·I· h e q 1 1 c ·; 1 · i o n o F ·t l·w Bi'..1y d 1 East tAJi'.l:.hout dur·ing that.: hedl!lf rr'l'i. nf~'ll ppr ·i nd in e<·1rl y M~rch. The third are some con c t'! r n s I· h r,~ c:l e l r) g r.1 i: i on hJ H1c->. mi n:i. s ter and .. h'.i s ,.,,bou+.: ·l·.hr~ mr:1 i. ni .. f~ni'lncr,~ I"Oi'.ld .

expresser:! official oF 1: hr,~

T h a cl a s "i. m"i. 1 a r· P x p e ,,· i E! 1'1 CC:! 1.1.Ji. 1- h ihe minister about a month ago tAri H1 r· e s p E:' c t 1- o r.1 d e:1l e g ''1 t i on f r· om 1-lermitage--Sandyvi.J.J.e and Gaul tois, and ai: that t 'i. me cer·ta t n concer·ns were expressed about maintenance. I IAJant 1-:o say pt.ibl..i. cl.y, .in thE! minister 1 s presence, in the pr·esE!nCr'! of his co.ll e:~r\191H:!s and in the presence of people from Har·bo11r Mi.ll and I ·it: 1 .. 1 f:~ 1-fr.:~rbour

East, 1 hat hE! carne thr·ough. He e1 d d r· r'! !; s r,~ d 1 1·1 !'' rn<.·1i n 1- e n r:-1 n c P.

concer·no.. T me:~t tAd th the council i n li r:~ r·1n-i t.~ g c.) S;::~ nd y tJ i ·11 r~ ·i n Hw last Fet~l day:. and T 1~1as jnFor·med I· h0. y h,, u !':! no i· i cod •'1 :-rlc'1 r· k cd .i nq:J r· o u c-Hur·n ·l t~r:L l h r c~ ~; p ~) c t to t: hE:' i S S II C ~; i h (.~ y r• c'1 'i :; P cl lA) j i h h j Ill • [

·thank h:in1 lor· ihat.

T <'~ !; I< h :i m to g j v c-'! f u 11 c o n s -; d e l" c.1 I ·i o n h) 1' h ·i s fJ c l"i i" i o n because it is for the upgrading of <.·1 tJc~r·y bi-ld Sl'!ct·ic:n of r·oarl. The mjnister saw pictures this mo r· n i. n g , he has s c en 1: he lfl b f:' fore , so I "lAJi.Jl • not take the time ·of the House:~ n OIAJ to b r:! l. i'l b o 1.1 r I·· he p o .i. n l. , becc-.1use I am ful1.y atAJarE• that the nrin·isl.:er ·is qJ.I ·it(;~ aiJ.IiH'P of the:~

desperateness of this particular

L84-2 Apr'l. l :1.5, l 988 Vol XI

!d t u a 1:-; o n 300 or so 1- () g (:~ 1·:

medical shopping

and +:he-) r·oad 1-.hdl~ l.:hoSE! people have to depend on

~o schools, to get to facilitiE!S, to 9E!t to and to get to their jobs,

in many cases.

Mr. Speaker, before I sit down, b !) c: d 11 s e ·i '1'. l" cl "'i· e s el-i r· c c i··.l y 1- o i: h l:' petttion, I tAJant to rl'!spond to a rnr1th~r· -J:I'H11 ' HH~ l trinisl· c~r· Y'd ' iS~::'d

dur·ing h :i s responSE! l..o my fr·iend r r· ()In p 01" i . d e c r· i·1lJ f ) (rJf r· . F f F (H' d ) . The->. mj nis hH' is d .ght. W('! ought l ·o kt=!ep 0111 : Hwsc P•H' i~ ·isi'ln

concerns and considerations when I~J(~ rU' C d C! b rl 1-. i 1'1 9 -j_ S S U C S 0 f t. lri S

import:.anc~>. . My fri.~Hld for Por·t de Gi"r·1lJH r'19l"('!f:~~; IAri l·:h thai· . bul·. he h.~1s

the same problem I have.

T ·1.. i s v <'! t' y d .i. f f i c ul 1- , b '" i. n q ordinr:u~y humr:1n beJngs as tAJe ar'E:•, l·: u s·i -1-· hr:!r·r,~ and b·i.t~ our' lip IAJhen IJ.Ie hear the rn:inistE!r say thc.'lt :in one mouthFul, bui~ ·in Lh1:~ next

. instance we hE!ar th:lngs J.i. kE! thE! fo-Il OIAJi.ng: YPs, ~H'! has built· a lot of roads. Nobody dispu t .. E!S l .. h<'1~. l"lhdl': 111e debal·e sotnet·i1nes ·j~;

whether their priority about where 1. h 0. I" o ''~ d b 1.1 i . 1 d i n g :·i s b e ·i n g d o n e ·i s

t. h e r i g h t o n e . F o r E! x a rn p 1 E! • 1.1.1 h P n 111(~ sen c l r'! u C'! n p no p l1-~ I!Jh o h <'llJ t' ! co 1nc• alJ. this distclnCE! t.h:i.s rnur·nin~J Otl!'~l" ~1 tJ .cr··y b.-~d gr·<·1vel I"Oi:'id, on the one hand, and we realize , I ~;c:·1. y l·o i·l·lE~ rn:i n i s1·c::!Y'; e n i he ol .. hPr', that last. y~:!ar· :i.n h:'i s fr·il:!ncl 1 ~;

di:;l · r· ·icl· i:he rrH~lltb! ::r·· r1.1 1" l·irtr'I:JOur Gr·act:~, t:h(-i! M'i.nist.et" of Consum(c•l" () f r .. , i r' ::; ( M r· y 0 II n q ) I h c s (! d ~ y ~:: ' lAJhen tAle r·eali.zt::. thc'lt. they hau(• s p r:~ n 1· $ 'I r) 0 I 0 0 0 o n n r' o <:·< d cl o l.•m there last year with only six h o 1.1 s e :; u n i I· , do no t· s t a n d he r' (:' and t e 11. me t hat tAle a r e p 1 a y :i n g ·t~ hc,~ pol i 1:-i r:s .

llllhen I look c.~l: 1··h1·'! Foi"ri1E!Y' M'i. nist:.f:'t' of Transportation, thE! lflE'!Tflber ror St-. . Ceor'g(:~'s (Mr· . D;;u.Je) out i. n Ro.und Pond paving a road of 1, 200

No. '1.7 R84-2

f('!WI ;.wd /.0 f"eet ,,,j de:), piHJerneni up l·o c:\ l··.r·ec, beCc'lll~;e hi!; rdl·h~~r· 1 ~;

Ci'lb.-in i~: b€~h:ind t-.he tt"e(!, and :;pP.nds fill

()1\J HOI\J. MF.I'-18 F I?: Thcd. :-i~; shocking, that is shocking!

MR. SPF.AKFR: Or·der, pJ.ease!

MR. SIMMONS: - and SF)('!I'lds 68

SOME HON. MEMBERS: . . Oh, oh!

MR. SIMMONS : It is thH. truth as well.. UH:) l·:r IJ l. h .

MR. SPr0.KER : 0 r d r,~ r , p l C! r.·1 s c ! 0 r· r:l C:! r· , p l r,h·l s c !

MR. SIMMONS:

It: is

r"' r· . S p n R k c r· , T k n 01.1.J rn y goo rl F 1" i en r:l thc-~ M:i rd st·er" of ~:)oC'.i. f.ll Sel"u·j ces ( M r . To b ·j 11 ) d 0 f.! s no{: l i !u' i I b I I I·

thE~ tr·lJ'th often hur·ts. Th€~ truth of1"Y n 1'111 r 1: !;

T h n F c:1 ·i 1" i·: h -j n g , ~1 r . ~=; p f! •'1 k c r , -i !; the fo]JotAJing: That $68,000 -..

rlN HOI\J. r"'FMBFR : $48,000.

MR. SIMMONS: o h , i. +: -i s o n 1 y $48,000 .

they do My

l.ld t:.h mistake. What .did the other $20,000?

MR. RATRD : Read your· boo k s .

MR . SIMMONS: $68,000, T SdY 1-.o Humber West, was r· o r.1 d , M r· . s p r'! R k r'! r· ,

H1 P Htr,~rnb e r for spent pauing a

1-.o onr. house~ .

r·1 r· . Sped k r:• r· , T ~; <·1 y I· o 1- he ~1 i n ·i !;; i: e r·

I BID Apr·oLJ ]r,, 1988 VoJ XL.

MR. SPE()KfR: The hon . concluded .

MR. SIMMONS:

rrrn1nber·· 1 s I· i lfiC has

T h a 11 k yo 11 s ·i r, r llri l l. c Cl n c -, u cl E:!

within one sent.E!riC("!.

Mr . Sped~er, I s~y i·o the MinistE!r, we w:i.lJ. keE!p the p £.~ r· t i s d n s h ·i p o u 1·: o F · ·i i~ .. L f h e IAJ".i. l. l keep the partisanship out of it, b u 1... t o t: h e s·r., b s t. a n c E:! o f t. h -.i. s

petition, I support it. IAJ h o 1 E! h n art(~ d 1 y an cl T ;-::' s k thE!

Minister to giUE! it his support, as I ~m sure he will

SOME HON. MEMB E'RS : Hoar, hr,~iH'!

Mf~. MOf~GAN:

Mr· SpC:!Rker· .

MR . SPFAKER : Th1·:· hon . I he tnernber For· flonc:·1tri s l·!.'l

Sout~ (Mr . Morgan) .

MR. MORGAN : T lllOII lrl l ·ikr! l:o rnakc:·· c}

comment~; on l..h(=! pE!l:ltoi.on 11 n r:l ('! r· !; ~ - ':' n d I· h d I· <'~ d n ·1 n g d i .. ·i ,.) n

the area is in the GaJ.lery.

F l~I<J a~; I

Fr·om

·I 1- h --j n k ·i 1... -i ~; c 1. e (~ I" 1 y o b u ·i o tr s t h ct 1::

the kind of approach just taken by

I·: he 11tomber For" Fot"l.unc:!···-Ht'!r'l'rt:i l:(:tgl"' is not the kind that would bo s 1.1 c c c;! s s F u 1 i. n g C'! 1.: l·: :i n g 1:. h ·i. n g s done

in h:is riding. HE! st ands up t:.o put Forward in a sincere way a p E! t i t :i. 0 1'1 0 n b e h a 1 f 0 f l: h E! S E! p E! 0 p J E'

and r·jghl-ly so. They tAJanl: l·:.he .. i.r roads paued and I support t:.hem.

·nul·: l:he ''lpproach 1rtc::td1,~ by LhE!'i.l" membE!r for the ar·ea in getting up i:tnd <.'1 '1-l·.c::tck ·ir·lg l:hr) govnr·nlrtf''lli~ and

attacking other ministers besides ·l:hr:! Mi n·i s ·l : 1-.~r· of Tl"dnspot" ·l-.at. jon ·in

the IAJay hE• d:id, j s not l.hE! r ·ight. <:lpf>r'Or:-u:h 1-o ·~~-~1·. l·lrings donn for his area. It is the wrong i:lppr'Oc'lCh llf~ "i ~; rln i ng dc'llrld\]9 1-o

No. 17 R84-3

tho eFfor·l:s of t.hose pel~-lt-ioner·s,

to the people from the area and the committee organized in the clrea. He is doing substantial dr.Hrkl9E! to t.he"i r effor·Ls, IAJh i ch ar·e genuine and sincE:1re in t.rying to gEd- '11 b.l OITieh~r·s of r·oad p.~~u~Hi.

T fLtl.l.y suppor·l·. i:h~~

t l·wsc->. peop1e gr:~t .. L:i ng upgr<:11lr;!d <-lnd p<~tJf~d.

f-)fforl:s of their r·oc-.ld

l h <;ll.J I'! be () 1'1

fiJ] l.y aware ouer· t..he yc->.ar·s .

Recogni./P. i · h~ ri"'cl·, f"'r· . ~pnr1ker·,

·H1c1.t :.:inCC-! 1972, ·.if my f:igutnE~S are c o r• r· c c I .-.~ n d T i · h -i n k i • h .-:1 i 1·· h c y ,;, r' c , t ~~i"~l l h:i :; adrni nistr·a·t-j on het"E~, thc~1

P . C . (~drn-in ·i~;i·r·al•ion 1~1h:ich T IJ.J<:-1~;

p<H· t- of undf-'1" both PrE~tn'i c~H·s, has <;penl ~;ornc!i·lring l··ikf~ $3'7 rn-i. l.lion "i n L hat r· o.i cl i n g , i n Fcn·l .. llrlf.! ·-HHr·rni lJtgr'!. l·fopnfltll y rnr:>r't=! IAdlJ bE:' spent. Uds year and in fut11rt=! Yt'ars, bu I I s<.·ty again, f·1r. Speaker, in genuinely supporting t h c~ E~ f f o r· t s o f t h E:~ s E:~ p e o p l c~1 f r· om the area, their member for the ar·ea has jus ·t-. donr,:! substant.ial damage in getting up and criticizjng the Former Minister, the notAl Min:.i.ster · of r.ntE!r·gouc·H'I'llnE!ntal AFfai.rs, in attacking him in t:he tJ.Jay that he did, in Lhe par·l- is r:Hl I•JFtY i·hal~ I'll'! attacked a minister in the govpr·nrnf:'ni-. . ThHI". to go when getting h ·is disl-r·ict.

is noi­things

i· ~H~ 1£k1 y don~:! for

Mf~. SPFAI<FR : _ Or·dPt", pl C'!i'..!Se!

Hc'!for·c-' rr,~cogn:i z:i 1'19 the. hon. i-hP I e r·1•l ~~ r· o F 1 h e 0 p p o s i I• i o n '" g •'l i n r nH.Ist· dr·aw a ·l-tent.:i.on to hon . rnetnbc:: r·s i · h,.,:. i ~d ~; pt=! t i 'Lion -; ~; no I· · j n Ol"dC;!l".

Wl'>. h<'lUe had r·r:>.peatl=>.d tr·oublE!, as C.·1ll hon. rnHJnbi-:!Y'S knOill, "in pet.it::ions. A pef.:i.t::ion should bE! dc:lclrr~~ssed l~o !. h f-) Ho1.1se of Assc->.mbJy. I do not feel. uery

L.844 Apr·i. l 15, 1988 Vol XI_

happy about bringing Lh i s attention of hon. members. SC\Y 1-.hi't~. t r·eal·ize that haue come through a l.ot of

~o the I will people

trouble d n d ·i n c o n u en :i. f~ n c E! 1: o c o rn l;! h <-'! r' c~~ 1~. o the House to hear petiti~ns and it is ned·. l , ighl·ly that [ woul.d bt~ ·inq

this rnat:t:er· to hon . mE!mbE!rS I but:. Lhr~~ fF.tc:i·. of ihr~ nJdLtPr' ·is th.:tl:. T am bound to do so because that is 1 n 1j j o b , I· 0 poi. n ·i~ o u1·: t• h d · I~ t. h :i ~~ petition is not in order.

This fH~i · i i · ion i ~; no L .Hldr·P.ssnd 1-.o the hon. Hous~. . It sr.lys, 11 We, t:hE'! 11 n r:l 0. r· '' j g n t:! rl , b e i n g r· C! :·; i cl f'! n ·i- s o F thE! Pr·ou·.i.nce of N~~t,l,]fcwnd1and and 1.:·\br·<'ldor·, do hc.~r'C!bl) l'rlr'tkr) pet ·i. i•• oion to the han. MJn:i.stE!I'' of t .. hE! Depi·1r'l":lllnnl· oF Tr·r~n~;por·t,·~t.ion Fo'r· t hE! P r· o v ·i n c e of 1\1 E'IAif o u n d] a n d . " So T JT111'>1• r·ulc! l·ht't 'i· lhe peLiLion i.s not: in ordE!r.

TnE!mbE:'rs i. 1- '

by that

lE!aVE! .is

If han . diSCIISS m-atter, ·i. n ordr~~r·.

but: this petition

MR. SIMMS : Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thlc' hon . thr-~ Pr·e!; ·Lcfen 1-

Council.

MR. SIMMS :

tJJant: to Hno t.: h~:!r

is not

of L• hE~

TF T rn<·liJ, no ·i·. i·o bpl,~tbot.tr·· Lh('! point or· anyt:h:i.ng I but t·:.h:i.s SE:!E~rns I" O occ11r' Fr·otn I· i1w~ l· o ·1· ··i1ne, q1.1 i l·e ft"E!qtH:'ntly, I arn not StH'E:'. MaybE' I he Oppo•; i l: ·i on l·fou·;c I f''d!ICI" and T can get together and, I do not knOll) r'lbOIIi: ch;'lngr> Ul!~lll, bul~ i:'d '

1east if members foJJowed the same so11r'cP., tnayi:H~ go h) i·I·Jr• C"l!"!r' k or sorn~~thing just Lo makE• sur·e t. hal~ r'!lH~r·yi· h'irlg ·i~; r·:ighl - , IAJe 1n-iqht ~;i·• op

this. Anyway, t..hat Js anothe1n f>r'Obl!;'Hl 1£Je l~ri 'll dHdl llJ-ilh i'lrlOf:".I·Hi!r'

day.

For this particular day we are

No. l7 R8tl4

q u j t c-~ FH' C'! p a r· e d o n tl'd s s j d e t o Ftl. loiAJ i · he del:)c'lh) on l· hi·; paJ" ·l:i.cu]ar· pc,~t-.i.t'.ion to p r•oceE'!d, (~ S fl P. (. j r'lll I) i n lJ ·j (!IJ,j 0 f i· hI~ f c'l C -(-

ffla'[- thr:>r'C-'l ai"E~ pEwpl.e in the 9''1ller· ··ir:'!>, r·al ·hcr· l·hdn c:lnlr'IIJ l.·he r11e1'l"tc-:~1" any morE:'. We 1H'E:! quite pr'8flr'lred l·o do i"hi !; .

Ml~. BARRY : On a point of ordel" I Mr·. SpeakE!r .

MR. SPEAKFR: A point of member for Island.

MR. B()RRY :

ordE!r I

Mount-: the hon. thE• Scio • Bell

Mr. SpeakE:~r, this has come up on a r·egul ;u· basis, and 1-- l·w Cr)l)E!r'nlnC'!ni--. HouSE! Lt':!i'H:lE!r 1 s suggestion is good, ro I:H·ing i-- hc.:! pE!I·i_t ·ions lo 1-:h~-:'

Clerk or some single source to 1rli:-1 k r:! s 1.1 r· e ·i 1- -; !; i n o n:l r,~ r· b r:d=- o i" c presenting it to the House, pl"OlJidr,~d -t--h;:~l~ some of lhr. pe t·.:i t-::i onei"S, sorne of thE:' TTIC'!ITibE·r·s IAJ h o s i g n e d i · h e o r· -; g i n r·l. 1 p e 1-· i 1··. i o n , ar·e pr·e-'lsent . But oftc->.n, as l:he C;ovcr'l'llllf!nl- 1-IOIISf:! I C•'1Cic!r' knOll]!; ., llJC h1'lVE~ pr:-!-1.-.-i.t·i.ons seni' ·.in fi"OITI h 1.1 rl d I" f'! d <; 0 (' Jrl-i. 1 e !) r:·11AJi-11) r:Hl r:l 1: h f' ··inrLi.viduc~l.s !:ending them in are no ·l· r:-1 t"OII nc:l .

:-)o T llJOul d t"l'!ci:nnrtlf'!l'ld lJI)r·y s i·r·ongl y t-o the,~ Gove->.rnrnE!n-l: House l..r:'adE•r t·~ht'll--_ cons i cler·r:1t--ion br'! g·iur'! l'l l:o i'ln amendment lo the rules of this House for petition s so that the SpE~aker can considE'!r it. in order ·I· o hear· any f o nn of co rmnu n i. c <:11~~ -;_on whjch js, in substance, a pE!-lition that., by --i_~·s nat~11r·e, ·is of concE=!r'n or of interE!St t.o mE!mbE!rS of the Hous,,~. T L•.Joul d s I·Tongl y r·r~cornrnE!I·HJ

that bE!cause IAJE! ar'E! going to conl·-- intH~ t·o havP 1-~his pr·obl.E!III.

SOMF l-ION. MEMBFRS: Hear, hear!

MR. SIMMS:

I B IJ.1i ()pr·i·l :IS_ '19BB lJo] X I

To that po:i.nt. of or·de"!r, Ml" . ~)~H) i'\lu) r'

MR . SPf.~Kf.R :

To that point of ordr,H', t-he hon . 1: he P l" n !; :i d e n I o f I he Co 1 1 n c ·i 1

MR. SIMMS: Does the hon. L.E!ach>r· Oppos --il:·ion lll ·-i~;h 1-- o hc'llJU a word along those lines?

MR. WF.I . LS : Yes.

MR. SIMMS: Go ahE:~ad. I IAJ i. l. l IAJa i. t. .

MR . SPEAKER: Thr:• hon. t· hr'! l . r~dder·

Opposition .

MR. WELLS :

of LhE! fur l·.h t:! r'

of i".hE'!

l j 1.1 s 1-. llli'Hl l . r~d

that it is ·I o s ;·:1 y , M r· . S p e a k e I" , just an in sult to

fH' 0 p l P. F (J r· II ~-, 1·. () c; (·'' p k I· () d p p 1 y 0 IJ r· r·ule:'s to their dl"afl:.Jng of a pr~i · i:- · ion . Thr~ pr·r!St'!nl·;:11· ·ion oF r'1

pet.oitjon to Hds HousE• is a t ·irnc hnl'IOIIT'l'ci flT'dCi: j Cl' i-- h;'d~ lAIC'! have->. had (,~Vl'~l" si ncE" lhE! He1u~;e ha ~:;

r' >' :i ~; 1: r,, rl i n 1-h ·i s PI" o 1.1 --; n c e . 11\l E:•

should not now be saying t o Lhe fl(,'Opln c)F ' i ·hi !; Prou ·incf'!, 1 YUI .II" petit.-ion cannot. be'! hE'!i'll"d- becau s e 'i :·. i ~; nol: !; 1: t" ·i c I· 1 y s pI'~'" k --j n g , addl~esSE!d to thE! HousE! oF AssP111bl y . 1 Mo st-_ peopl f~ ·in 1--.h~:!

Province think in terms of the govf:~r·n1n~)nl-: ;~nd 1- /l f:! r·esp·ons ·ib ·i. l. i l: y of the government to respond.

The suggestjon of thE! hon . TTIE!mbe"!r for· Mount: S c :i o 8 e l 1. T s J d n d :i. s a good one. We should change our· r·ul.E!~; . T i··hink l::hc,~ hon. Government House Leader is p r· r~ p ;u· P d i· o <:1 g r· Q P 1- o ·i i··. . I n ·1::/·_1 P

meantime, we should now agree that dl'l pr'!l ·.-i1·:·ions 1--h,'ll~ c:'tr•r,' clE:~ar·ly

intended to be a petition for pr·r'!'>C!nh:·li··ion ·in lhn i·loiiSC'! 1-o a~;k

l~h('! goVE!rnmc"!nt.. to rE•spond t:. o

~-In 1 '7 f~ B 11-!)

something, be hear·d u nti 1 tAlE! put otJr OIAJn r·ule!; in or'dfH'.

MR. S1MMS: Just to that point of order, Mr . Spc~1akE:H'.

MR. SPE(li<FR: To t:hat point of order, the hon . ·HH~ Pr·Hsi dE:Hll~ of Hlf~ COIHlC n.

MR . SJMMS : Nor to b~:~labotJr i :he fH) 'int: , t.•Je hatH~

ctl.r·eady indicated that we are q u i h~ pr•c p;u·r~~d ·i:o l P. 1: i· his c.k ba i:e utrr·y on. T th ·ink t.hE!r'e is one I riO r· r. S p ~~ ;:~ lu:~ i'' f t· OHI I· h ;;d· S i d f! i'lJ] OI~INI 01'1 l"h:i:. pE~t:i +:ion. Then T II n c:l (-~I"~; 1. (·1 11 d HH' r.,-j tri ~; 1-r-:! r· () r Tt"i'H1Spol"1a+·i.on 1~1ouJd Jtke -t'() ask For· lc<~uc) I o con11nr-!t1l· For· d cottple of nd n11h~1s, bE~Cduse hE! d:i d not- gc->.t: ,,, n n p p or·:- ,, n i i: y . r n <HI y c tJC• n t , ihc.d :is th:is par·t:lcular petition . '"1c,1 h ;;we agrcf:1d on f:hal· . Thai: is not· a pr·obl em.

I L h ·i n k 1: h c,1 sttgg,:~si-.·i on oF thC'! membl::lr for Mount Scio Bl::!ll T s l. i:~ n d tAJr.l s an ex c E~ 1. J. ~=· n t-. onE~ , not specifically, no1..1.1, 1..1.1hat he had to say . T i'l.ITJ ned-: corniTIE!nl-.ing on that. Bu ·t the idE!a of us looking i'li: and do-Lng sOJnpl-.hing to prc,1UF.!I1t: this from occurring again, because ··it SP.C'!IIIS 1-o happen almos 1-. r:1Ur:!r'y second day. So something is wrong uri. i: h l": h f'~ p r· o c c'• s s o r i .. h e p l" o c H cit 1 r c .

Tn i'ldr.li. ·l " i on. l:o I: hal·, T undel·'s'l".<Hld t hat t-· he S e 1 e c t Co mrrr.ii. t. r::1 e of t 11 e House ·l .. hdl· -i~; dei'lling t.dl· h l"t.1le c:hr..1119E:!S dnd so on may, in fact:., br::' looking r'll' 1'hr·11: p;·~ri · · iclllr'tr' ·i ·lern .')~;

Wfd.J. So 1~1e may b e ablE:' to dc->.al t~ri H1 i i. i n d 11 e co 11 r· s r-~ • i n •'11'1 y nuc'!l1t"

(l n y t~l<:t y , n o t t o I:H1 J a b o u r perhdps ,.,c ,,J'i ll 1"..:-1lu~ i I·

it, tlndr'!l"

haue adu:-isEHflNlt and maybe I tAdll. some,~ con\Jt'!r'Sal·i ons ,,ri l:h courit.erpr..lrts and s~~e if ·t.hc:~rE:'

lfl .Y is

1 .. 8'1-6 April 15, 1.91!8 Vol XI .

anything we can do to resolve that par·l~ ·icul<H' pr·oble:'rn so t.hal~ it does not continue to re-occur and put Your· Honour· i n IAJhi.~t I knot•J is and has been an embarrassing s i l . 1.1 ell': i. o n , e s p c,H; :i. a 1.1 y .. i. f t: i·H'! r· (~ a r· e peoplE! in the GaLl.E!ry t.~.rho do not ftJlly undr'!r's1-.and t•Jhr.d: t•H~ arE· do i.ng dotAJn here. I cannot real.ly bl.arno 1-:hmn trtr.lny h tnHs.

So, hauing said that, lE!t. us J.eauo i1: ai: i·hai., T suggr.~s1-, f.-lnd g eL on with this particular pet:-ition.

MR. SPEAI<Ef~ :

To thdi: po·inl: oF Ol"dc:~t", l· hor"c,~ ·is no po:i.nt of order. ThE! comnwrd:.s th.ll: I•J~I"c~ lfl<•ldr. c~r·r:~ CC!I"i:,'li.nly excel] ent. ones . It t•JOt.tl d mi'lke rny 1 ·i f e rntr c h changE>.d. r hr•l\JC:! I'll)

the House.

~~i'tS "i et" ·iF I he J"t.t"l e~; '''''~ '"1'.! W:Lth UHo! r·uJp a~; it ·i '', o pi · i u n , u n l e ~:. ::; by l 1'.' .-:'tv e

SOME HON. MEMBERS: fly l.E~i~\JF.!.

MR. WELLS: Mr . Speak<':1r .

MR . SPEAKER: The h,on. the 0 p p o s i 1: i on .

MR . WELLS :

LE!ader·

Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

of

I r:'i SC-?. t:o in do·i nq cornrnents flon1-1wi :; l·.d

support the petition so r: tAJr:tnl- ·l .. o r·eful- e of the-?. hon. mE!ITtbE!r' sou I· h ( rJJ r' . ~1 o t" g an ) .

Lhe

and t: hE!

f"t~orn

r 1: ·i ~; I h~ t' c-':~;pn ns ·i b i l i ·l· y oF t-:he members, particularly those Htcrrrber'~; on l·his ~; · id:! of ·i·hr'! Hou :;e , to pojnt out <:Hlcl expJa:in to Ull"!

flllb 'l i c of I hi~;; Pr·owi ncr'! '"Jhy r'(H'tds <'.Ire not. paUE:'d or r·econst:.t"ucted :in pdrl-·icllliH' .-'lr'Cr't!; t•then t•JC~ l"ecr:~ . iV(!

petitions such as this. The p r:' o pl r. o F Hw d i s 1-. r· ·i ci o F F o r· 1:. u n e

Her·mi tagl'>- should kno1.~o1 tA.Jhy thai:

~Jo . l 7 R84-6

ha~; not--. bc~en att.ended to tl·1e same dS l·hrc! flr'!opl 1·:! in R<"~l.e i.gh ·in i·hn S ·1-. r· e:d l~ of BE:'] ] E:~ I s] E~ s h o u] d k n 01.1.1

'~Jhy l·· h;'IL h<'l!> no ·l ·. been done Tl­doc-' s not :in any ITliH1ner· d:i.rrdnish ·I· hI·) r: h •:1 n r: c~ •; 0 f i· h f~ pI" •'l ':} e I" 0 f I·· h r~ pcd :'i. i ion bEd ng an~;wer·ed, i i" doE:~s

no I· rt t ,,, l 1 . . T 'o· p r· o b db l ':J ·i n r: r 0 .:-1 !; 0. !;

·i ·1- b C'! c: au s E:~ :i t- c r· E! a l e s g r· E! at pol ·j l:i Ull d ·j !) C:OIIlfOY'i •'1~; i I· 01.19h'l:

to cr'C:'a ·I-E! pol :1 1-i cal dJ.s comfor·t for ITJI,~ ITiber·s on I: he gotJnrnrnen 1·. si 1ln of H1E~ House whE!n l:he public ar'E! made~~ i'11Aii'lr·e of just·: lllhal-. hr:1~; bE!l'!rl

happening and what. has been the r·ocord of lhr,~ gouer·nmE:!nl· in this regard ouer recent years.

So not: ldng that the hon. member for· For· l- un~::~ •. Her·rn"i.L•;tqP (l'-1r·. Sj mrnons) said in any manner hurts or aduersely affects the pr0yer of thE'! pE!t.iLjon or· thE! chanCE!S of :it btc' i 1'19 6\l'lSIAJHrE!d.

Mr·. SpeakE:~r, I arn happy to support <~Hid f~J'l"(~OI"Sr,~ t .hr,, pwl .. ·i l: ·i on of I· he people of L.'itU.E! 'Hi'trbour· East and H ;:~ r b o u r M i l l e . When one d r· ·i "e s ouer· those~ I"Oi'lds fr·om t:ime t.o t-.~irnE!

':JOI.I Cc'll'l SCI'! j115i· I•Jhi·~'o· l· hr:' l"lf!CIJ ·j ~; J

JJ<-n·t-i.cular·ly at· U1'.is t]mE~ of LhE! ':Jic'Rr c~nc:J ':JOII Co"'l"l SC I·~ j11sl· IAIJ1R·i:

d r· ·.i. v E-! ~' p eo p J C'! to o c c a s :i o n i'1 J J y t a k E! dr•r:·lSI· ·ic sl- eps, as ocr:lll"red lc·l'>l: l~leE~k :in Har·l.J E:'t I 1 s Har·bour·.

Mt" . Spc-!akc'!l", Sl;!ns·i 'o·· i tJH 1-o b E:~ t- t e r· t o pc'!i-. ·i 1··.-i.ons. i:.h~i s onE~.

I~IE:~

I· he Lhe

T

ough-t Lo bE:~ morE! 1·1 C! r:! d s and r· ~~ s pond prayers af such hr'!i'lr·tily supporf·

Thdnk you, Mr . Speaker .

MR . DOYU': Mr . Speaker .

MR . SPEAKER : 0 r· d e r· , p l. e i'l s 1':~ ! D o e s Htr,~ h o n . Minister of Transportation Doyl r,~) hi~uc,~ l r,~i'llJe?

1~ hf.! (Mr.

I B tJ. '7 ()pr ·il 'IS, 19B8 Vol X I.

SOME HON. MEMBERS : By lr-~dlJC!

MR. SIMMONS: Mr·. ~3peaker·,

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. I h(.~ lilE!I'flber for fOI" l":tlnP Hc~!r·rn-itagc~.

MR . SIMMONS: T c:1 1r1 q 1 1 ·i 1-.r~ p r· e p"' r 1" d I: o q ·i u e h i m leave because we want to hear from hi. tn. Th1,~ po"inl·: sho11ld be rni'tde though that leaue would not be r·r,~qtri.l"ftd iF 1-:hH 9l'tnl·:l.Emt<Hl for· Bonavista South (Mr. Morg<:ln) did not hog t he pos"i.t"ion that the Minister of Transportation (Mr . Do y l (~ ) s h o Lil d h a u e h ;:•t d ·i. n t h o

first place.

SOME HON. MEMRERS : Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKfR: Order, ple.:-1sn! 01"der·, pl.oase!

'l'hP hon . I ltr. Mi n ·i s I·J!t' oF Tr!:'lnsportatton .

MR. DOYLE : Th.ul!< yo11, f.IJr· . Spt'!dknr .

[ c:llfl lJ1~r·y pl Pr'l~;::!d i nri1·:·Hc:l and to respond Lo Lhe pr·nsen-1-.ed by l· ltr' hen. Just fot" t.hE! benof:i. 'l

·: · 0 ~;I"" ij IHI

petition rnHmber. of the

d1'l (.~g.:1i· ion in H1r! c,,,l·l r;!I"':J 1~1ho rnay not fully understand whaL js h.:lppen ·i ng r'tnd 1~1hy ~~Je hat)c,~ l· o hd~Je

leaVE!, under t~ho rules of t.hE:' H o u s e on l ':J on C'! rn f~ rn be r· f r· o , n I: h ··.i. s sido of t:.he House can rospond to a p c,~ t .. ; t: ·i. o n , u n l. l't s s ·1 E~ a ~J c,~ i. s g r· a n t: ~=~ cJ .

Mr· . 1 .. hat: d:i.d

Speaker, I arn very pleased lr~~<:·llJP IAJC~S gr·anl·.od bE'!Ci::li .ISH I

havE• t:he O·ppori:.unit:y and ti'w p l e ;:~ s 1.1 r· r,~ , of co u r s P , ULi ~; morn .i. n g at 9:00 o 1 clock t:o wol corne the dE!l.('!9d l····j on rr'OIII 1-li:·ll"l:)l)lll" M""i ll E~ and L'ittl.e Harbour East who went

1\Jo 1 7 R B W7

through a gr·ectt deal to get in here ~od~y . l believe they :indjcah~d to me they had to rise t.h ·i s rnor·n i ng solflP.IAJhr,~t·(,~ dt'OLind /.:30 or 3:00a.m. to get in for a 9:00 llll·:H~t-i.ng. So I am SUI"e Hii:'~Y IAJOIIl d want lo hear their concerns clt~dr'('~SSE:~d by InC:~ :-i.n d publ. ··ic fashion, even though, of coursE!, I ml:'!i: IAJ.i.t:h t.he d(:~l.~~gat"i.on a l. ·i l·:tl e bit earJ:ier, as I sajd, 9:00 o'clock H1-i.s morning and I~Jenf: ovE~r·

their· probJ ems· in great detai1, so i.t me1y nol~ bP. nc,~cP.~;sary For lnf:' i·.o r·espond j n any· .· great deta:i J here l·:od,'ly, gilJC:!n 1-hc,~ fr1ci· i·· h;~11 · ''JC h<·llJC'' al r·E~i'ldy tal ked about some of the probl r,1ms i".ho·l'i' l:hcy .;H'C

expel"··i E'!nc:i.ng on an 1 J ld J ornEd:er· s l· r· r~ 1· c h o F r· o ,., d i n I· h i'l 1· "'r· c~ .-~

r-1 I" • ~·) p C! i·l k C! r• , b (·!for·'" , s (HI!e oF

<·1 ::; T inclir:i:li·P.ri th E:! pr•obJ E:HTIS bE-ing

e x per· i en c (:~ d on I· h .:·l ·i· i~ o "' rl i'1 r' c o f .'1.

rni'J.inl· enanCE! nattnn,,~ and due lo the c~lr'r't'!n ·i: ''Jr:1diJwr cond ··i L·i on!; i·Jld 'i· ''lf!

hi-..Lir€:1. Just. l.:o b(;! a little bit rncwe ~;pf:~c-i.fic ,,,boul: ·1-.hoir problems, especially the flooding pr· obl('!IIIS 1-:hey TnE!I1-l: i.crned, Hll'! dE!pcn·t.m,~nt has experienCE!d very s P v e r e d r· i.-1 ·i nag ('! p r· o b l. e 1 n s i. n H1 Eli~ area because ' of the location of l.:he road i.i:self ;:1nd the fact thai-: it folJouJs along the shoreline in s o1nE! ar'(:1i'l.S and e:~ xtr'('!lnC:' fl.oorh ng occurs. TherE! is a tE!ndE!ncy for extr·e1n(~ fl ood-:i.ng a ·l- this particular tjrne of year. But as I ·i n d ·i. c d 1: r:~ d I· o ·1 .. h e d H 1 r,, g a t i o n 1- h i s morning, I dfTI onl.y t.oo pl.eased ''lhHn ''lhe 1'-.l·ll'!Y' cond i. 1- i.ons pHr'lni 1- and when we do have our maintenance pr·ogr·;urunc "in pldcr,~ i:hr~i· I!JC ''Ji.ll bf:' djrecting our rna.-intenance people h) h <·w c a l o o k '" i : HH' s c F 1 o o d i n g pr·obl ('!ms c1.nd ~:orne p :i p:i ng pr·nbJ EHns I·· h.~ I· nerc~d i·o be 1 oo k ::!c:l ,., f I C!t' l·o pr · c-~~JC:Hl 'l t hdt flood:i ng :in the fu i"" l.lt'e

Mr·. Spc.~ct!<r:!t', b(:! undE~r·i·aken

d m s 11 r· n 1: h <·1 1- ,,ri ll at s ome poinL w:it.hjn

1.8'1-8 Apri.l JS, 1gsa Uol XI.

the next month or so, uJhE!I1 tAle do hi'lvr:~ OIJr rnai ntf'!ncHlC E! progr· a nliTie! undE!rway.

Of course , the dE! 1 E~ gat ion i '' i . n r. r,1 r· e:~ s t: e d , 1-: o o , 'i. n t h E'! u p g r i:'\ d i n g of their road to a reasonable s tan dar· d . A 1 o t ·. of IAJO I" k has beE! n undertakE•n on that. par•ticular road o~Jr'!r i·:h1'! year·s. Jn ·l·.:h('! 'lctl:·.e 70s and early 80s, rny officials t.E!1l rrH'!, the rrH-u'l I.~Ja:; 11pgr·aded 1-o a reasonable standard, but t.~dthout a ci011b ·i , [ griP-S~;, i 1-. ha~; 90rl f'! ciOI.'JI'l since then because of the fact ; .. h a 1.. i -f: ·i !; <:·l g r· ,,, v r,1l r· o i~l d d n cl requires some E!Xt(,>rls "i. vE:• rnr.~··inl·nnrlncc ''Jor· k l:o be! rlndel"l·: ;'J.I<r.:!n rJght now. I talked £o my orr i ci i-l J ~' ul'i ~ :. m a t. I E! I'' of fa c t : , ;~ I. I. i·w d :': p r:: I , qtJ:ite a gr·eat lll•'l l-. "' r· ·i ·'·t J n e P. d !; ·the surfaCE! ilopcf~1l.ly, l" hr·ll · sclid, in the fltl·:urc .

1nor·n -L nq, ···1s ;:'1 out j n t.ha+: ar·e D ,

l ~ lhO h ::'lrl Ill!'! H l .:'ti•

d E•aJ of gl" iHllJ] a r·

-:-· o b c: p 1 a c c· d o u t: r· of t.he r· o ad .

I'J 'i. ·11 no+:

br,~ donr'!, d s I too d:ist:.an t.

As T said .:1 rnorrl:'!l'l r. ago, tJ.Jhrc•n T i'liTI

responding to a petition I ]ike t o keep pol ·it-.ics out of .i ~· , Mr·. Speaker, but just to reitera t e I)J h i'\ 1-. rn y c o ll. P a g 1 1 e s a i d :i n responding to this petiU.on, ju st. in Ci'l.Sr'! l·here rn :ighi·. be ~;niTlE! doubt:. as to the amou n l: of fu nd:i ng that hi'lS gonP t n~· o l" hi'lt·. par•ti.cul.ar district ever since this adiTI' i wi s l:r·.:-~t ion l··ook o-ff i cr,,, i''lrlci

back in 1972 when the previous "'c:l ru-i n-i s t r· ,,, i · ·i o n ·(·· o o k o f F ·i c e , T do have figures that in<Hcal·. e t.ha t. a l·.ol: ,'l l of $3'7 ul'ill ·ion hd~; bet=:n spE!nt in that d :istri.ct, b o lh f>r'OlJ i n r: i r~l . :~nd f, ~ der .~l won i c s , no i·: on J y on r· o ad s but on o t her !; e r lJ i r: (! :; • ,.t n d c: n f n I" r· y :; e r· u ·i c r! s •''\ ~; weJJ, oue~ t~e years sjnce· '197?. '71, .-1nd l· h,:·li· i·; '''~ subs ·i··anl·· .i. <·ll amount of rnonf:~Y. But. not. t.o takE! <:·lbJay, <~g.:dn, Fi" OI'rl lhe pi"Ob-lt-=!lrl 1-:. h<·~tl·.

the delegatjon has placed before

No . 1 7 r~Bl~B

me this morning, as I said, a lot of i r. ·is of r:·\ rrli'l in t-. E'! nr.,, ncr;! nr.\ 1·. u r·r,~

and hopefully our maintenance r:r'P.IAJS 1!1 i 1.1 be liiObi.l·i 7.Cc~d IAJ"i Hli n in

't-he nc,1xt month CH' month and a half •'HlC~ I Ali 11 S-[: i~ r• 1·: {: 0 II 1'1 d C) t' 1:;;) k C:: i· h 0. i r• pl"ograrnnH~!, 1~1h:i ch 1..r..d l J aJ l ~1viate a 1 o I· of Hw s e p r· o b 1 c Hh o n (:!! r· i~\lJ c 1

r·ondr. r·:ight C\cross thr::~ Pr·ovn c r:'.

r h <:HI k y C) II • M r· s fH:! •'I k f) r· .

Orders of the Day

MfL SIMMS : · Mt". Spr:O!akcc1r, beforr:1 pr·oceeding to t:J·w r.llePch l.i'\kc debaLe I I~JOI.I l d l.·i!<P to move first reading of those l~hrl'!Cc1 1nol·: ions on l··he 'l.dsl- p;:~ge.

Motion 4 .

Mo t-.'i.on, ·i·:I'H:1 hon. l·:hE:1 Minis 1-E!r' of Energy to i~troduce a bill, "An

Thr,~

Atlantic (let To AmHnd Canada-Newfoundland Accor·d Impl.f'!Tlltc!nh::ti : ion (Nr::~1.r..1f ou ndl.and) (Fh.ll 1\Jo . 3?) .

Act:," carriE!d.

On mot~on, ~ill 1\Jo . l? f -i r· s I. time, .or·dered read i· i ITlf~ 01'1 h)JflOr'r'OI•J .

MR . ~:)Tl'-1MS :

Moloion r. .

r· C:! ,., r:l ,,, a second

r·1oi-ion. ihc hen . !·he 1'-1 -irl'j!; lr!r' oF

.Tust·.-i c:e to in·t-r·odtlU! a b:i11, "An (lei : To l)lflend Ccri ·cli n l)cl-~; lii·w ·ing

Rr:1gi'.1rd To ThE~ C<:-:tnadir.Hl Char·tE!r Or ~~ i ghts lind Fr·~H'dorns, C:dl"r' i ed . (Ri.J1 No . 33) .

On motion, B.il1 No. 33 read a F-i.r·st . 1::.-i.me:~, <H'dFH'ed r'Pdd a sPcond time on tomorrow.

MR. SIMMS: Motion 5.

Mo +: ·i. on , 1:. h ,,, h on . i·: h t'! M i n i s +· e r· oF

I 8 4-9 Apdl lS, 1.988 Vo1 XL

Consumer Affairs and CoJrlliiJJrl'ic:.:-~1-:-ions 1--o in-1-·J"oducP a .-

b-:111, 11 An Act Respect..-.-ing ThE~

P 1.1 r· c h i'l !; ·i n 9 r.11 i-\ n i'l g "' rn ''! n i : A s s o c "i. d 1:. :'i. o n of Canada , 11 carried . ( B -.i. J J No ._ 3 0)

On mot:J.on, B-.i.1.1 No. (30) rE•ad a s ~~co nd F-i.r·s I" I ·i 1ne. orc:lnr·r~c:l r·p;·HI i•\

time on tomorrow.

r~ f~ . S T Mr'IS : WE:~ t..r..ri. lJ moue not..r..J to Motion 3,

I~~ h · i c h i !) I: h f! ~1 P e c h I ''1 k r,1 Jrl 0 (·: -L o n .

MR. SPEAKER: Motion l.

ThE! han. thE! rrtE!rnbE!r for Bonavi s l:.a So111 .. h c1djournHd l·. hc·) cleb;:-:~l:e .

Thr-:! hon. l,: hr-:· J'rl('!rnbHr' for· Bonau i.~; t-.a

South .

MR. MOI~GAN:

Mr. SpeakE!r, it is d:ifficult. l:o rt!Ci'111. IAJh<~, -; .. _ T hi'·\d to Si:l Y last: day,

1/JhE!n I adj ourm•d the debatE• . I s t.,lnd i ·o bE:1 C:OI'Tr:>cted, bul.: l::hc,~r·e

are twenty m-.-inutas lef~ of my t.irne?

MR. SPFAKER : Or·r:lcr·, p lF! ase!

i'h r~ bon lflf!lli!JCI" hf'l!) 'i:I1J:=!n 1-- y -·Four· orinutes Jef-l.

MR. MORGAN : T h.:~nk yo11 , ~~r Sf>r-)r:~l<r:!l" .

I Udnk, fJr·s L of a] -.1, Ml". Spl-! rl k e r, i I· ·i •; "i ITlp<H' ~:,..-, 111-: 1- o

emphasize the importance of this dPbdl·e , I he' "irnpor·t ·_ ;·~ ncH oF I~Jhal~ I.A.Jt'

are taJ.king about, how important i I· ·i s I· o L h i s P l" o v i. n c E:t oF Newfoundland . It is a topic of d i. s c us s i on n CHAJ a .l 1 a c r· o s s Can d cl a not j us t in N et..r..lf o u n d 1 and . I t h :ink it is UHry J rnportant 1o always

havE~ clarified thE! positions t.akE!n by respective parties, especially parties tiJhich have mE~rnbers in l. eg i sl ,,, .1-.ures, or· lissembl i es, or·

No . 17 R84-9

P<'lrl ·ir.llflt,Hll·-~; ··in Cdnddr'l, becr~ll~;c

·t hEH'e :i.s consi derabl.e debate. I l:hink ii ·. ·is v,:~r·y iJnporl-.<~ni' l:o al!J..Jays stre:~ss the factual ·infor'Jnr.t1:i.on p1.11- For11Ji:H'd by n~spectjve par"t.:i_E!S. I did not r· c,~ ad 1..11 h ''1 i~ I had t. o s ''' y rn y s c,~ 1. f , a n d I do not want to in any way Jn-isconsl·:ruE! anyLhing t-l'w hon. t.hr,~

Leader of the Opposition said, so T. h;~we hP.re :in fr·ont of rne l·:he Hansard containing the speech made b y 1: h e l. e ad "~ r of 1: h ,,~ 0 p p o s i. I~ i. o n . I want to be very pertinent to the :i. ssuf:~ and l:o i·I·H,~ facl~ l.lr'll position 1-i'·-tken by lhe L.i beral Pc-lrty, by the I. ·; I:H'! r· n l l.t'! <:l d f:' r· .

U· -j s cl ,,~rH' 'l:o rn,,, rHlri cl ,,~r'~r l:o' T [-J,-j nk, rnt'!ITibC:'Ins of the HousE~ of ASSIC\fTibly, dl'ld r l·hink ·i· o l · h,:~

1:;c-wple of Nt=>.t.ufouncl]i:trld, :if h·:i. s COHIIfiC:~ni ~; IJ.JI:~r · c Cni~r· i eli i·J·w c':ur.jh I h:~

p I" e s ~; , t h a t 1: h e L c-~ a d e r· of t h E~ Oppo~;it· ·iorl ·i!; ·indc:~f:'d no111, on bE-!half of his piH'ty, <-.~dvocat'.i.ng a f'lOsition 1--h,d: l·hr. 1-il·wt't'tl P<-n··ty oF 1\lf-!lklfoundliHld -.is notAl ver·y s i· r·r,~nllously opposnr:l l:c .:-l IAJe<~kr~ncd

fPdHJnaJ govE-~r·nmE~nt . Any a.C'l" 'ion I· a k f'! n 1.1 n d u r 1-: h !"! r.IJ t'! f! c h I '" k c :') c c o I" d ,,,hj ch '"Ji l J t.ur,,akr~n the fE!dE!ral g o v t'! r' n rn P n. I· , t he I. ·i. b H r' <·l "I P ~ t' · l~ y o f Net.ufoundJand i!; indeed opposed to that-:, IJ.Jh i 1 ,,~ at-: L he,~ s atn,,~ · t itne b<-Li. ng opposed to any strengthening of t.: h H p r· o v in C'i a 1 q o v r,, r· n rn EHl I: s ·i n Canada and their posjtions. I can quote from H0nsard the position takE!n by the LE!ader of the Opposltion. tn Fact I will do l..hat right. no1"1 to makE• surE! there is no rrl"i.sr'f'!PI"C'!~>Pnl::<.·lL ·ion of L h,,~ fc.tcts.

On the Seni'~tf~ -..issue --- that is one of four· ·1-opics T 11Janl-. l:o disc1155 T quoi E:! the Leadc:'r of -Lh<-'! Oppos i 1-i on: "p;~1-r-c:ndgf:! i ~; I•Wong, tllhoc-:!VE!I" Pl"acl·:-icr-~s . :it" -- l~hat js <'ll'l ·j 1'1 l · r~Y'CS [· i ng COIIIHIF!I'li ' 11 0t'

tllh:ichE:'Vf"r' govc'!Y'rtrTIE:~nt. pr·act:i.ces ·i 1- . ~"I'! c <·l n no I· be n ~; ~; u r· 0. d o r'

I. BSO ()pr·:il lS, 1988 Vol XI

h r:~ lJ i n g ·i n 1'1-10. S e rli'' l: e 1· h o pH o p 1 H who w:i 11 protE!Ct the inter·ests : of U1 .,, 1~1 h o 1 e P r c)l) ·i n u~ i r l: h e y a r· e appointed by the government for pol. i. ·l:'i c;:~l r·r,!i~sons " Noi•J, l:.hc-11-. i s clear·ly outlining thE! position of thC:~ l . i.be:~r'r·ll P<·lr' ·l:y, _i~hr'o119h i".he leader, on appoint.ITIE!nts to ·t.hE! S c,~ nat,,~ . B u t t h :~ fa c t-: i s -1:: h a l~ t he Government of Canada, undE!r this Accord, have i'tl r·er.~dy conf'i.r·rned the position that they tAr.ill give t:.hE! provinces a right l:o have a say on any appointrnE!nts to Senate. And to <.·ldd ~- o l"hi'li·, and it .i!> . all ty:i ng in, they tArilJ go furl.hE!r clnd 1 o o k <'1 -t- S <-~ n ,:·l 1-. c,~ r· P f o I" rn . So ··i. 1- ·i s not just the end of things by say ·i ng l·o I l'lf' PrOlJ·i ncc,~s, 'V.In r.u·r:! going t:o giVE! you nol>~l Lhe r·:ight to h<'l lJ C! <·l s ,., y in ,,, ppo·i n+·nl!:! n I s I o 1·: hH s e n at e , ' j l:. j s , a t. til E! s C'l m E• t .i ITl n , H11 ·~ b 0. <.] -i. n rl'i n g ') F' F 11 r· l l1 C! I"

d-.iscussion and debate on Senate r·ni-Or'lfl T:n r,'lCI., onP of I hn '!-:f'!l"lliS of thE! Constitutoional C:onfPr'E!I'lCE!S, bng ·inrl"ing H1 · i~; yc,u· ·in 'lc;JBB, i~;

not just on thE! rnattet"~' tAle w:i J] d ·i s r: us s 1 <·1 ·1-- c 1···., I· h ~~ ;--:- ·i s hI·'! r i n s r· o ·1 c~ s and responsibilities, buL is on !')<-~ni'lh-~ r·efor·rn. ::)o n':)I•J I.U-' knntAJ the position of LhE! L. "ibE!ral Party i n 1\1 n IAJf o 1 1 n d 1 r:t n d o n i· h El r o n r=! i s s 1 1 E! , on Senate reform.

Let mE! go a littlE! b:i t FurthE·r on h·is cormnenl--ing on l". ~H,~ SrJprerne Cou r·t .

For example, the quotation from Hansard - !".his is t-he offic i al document of the House of AsSE!rnbly i'll'l d T 1110 u 1 d d s ~; 11 rrH,~ HHH' t'! ·i s no question now of the official p o s i 1: ·i o n Hlf) I i b l'!r' "' I P ;a· 1': y " R u t it also provides that LhE! jud~Jr:'S rH'(! l· o be i'·l flfH:l'i n 1-- ud Fr'c'J)(J 1 i s 1- s generated by provincial go u P r' n rrw n I !; r'l n d I· h ,,, I· T do I" i''t k H

j s s u t::> t~d t· h . J t h :i n k j ·1 IAJ:i.] J r' e ~; 11 J l: qualit.y 1-- f'! r'lfl "

No. 17

i n o 1.1 r' Su pr'eiTIC:!

hi·li.J ·j llq

CouJn[:. in rl poorer

the long

R850

AN liON. MEMBER : No!

MR. MORGAN: So hE:~ and h:-i s par·ty al~e notll opposP.d h.) Hw Pr'OlJ i no~ h··llJ i ng any say with regard to appointments to Hw S11prc:~llll'~ Col.ll"l·· . Thdl. ·is Hw off i c:i c-1 J pus :L U on of t. he p r· e s en t. I ·i ber'<'tl I eddc,~r· I I· he pr·r.sen l· I :i bE~l"a] Par·ty :in Oppos:-i t:i on :in l·:h€~

Hnusr~ of ()sse1nbl y .

MR. YOUI\IC : Wily I l IAIOI'ldN·?

MR. PtHTFRSON: 1·1 ~~ s l·w 111 d r· e s i. g n .

MR . MORG(.lN: NOIAI, Ll1al is l::hE• posit:.ion on t:.hE!SC'~

1-.IAIO i s sur:~ s .

NotAl, l·.he most: irnpor·t.ant .issue th.'11~

concerns me and bothers rne as NeiAifouncll.dn.der· I ty:·i ng ·in ~l'i s

statements and his position that he does no~ want to sP.e "' weakened fed e.r·al go u e rnme n t., tying in lri. s posit. ·i.on t11hi. ch he:! Hnt.ln·ir:al· pd nol·:

just in this debatr::>, but, Mr.

S p r,, '" k e r·, back i'l s f '" r· ''~ s Aug 1.1 s l·: 1 •1.,

1 9 8 7 , t h E:! p r· (~ s e rl'l: 1.. :i b E:~ r a J L e a d e r , l: h t'! I P a cl f~ I" of l- h tc> 0 p p o s ·i t-: ·i o n s ''' i d l:hc,,n l:lta ·l: hE~ cl'isagr·c"Pd IAri.th NI:'1;1Foundldnd sr,~f~!cing ln•;:risl. dl·. 'ilJr~

j IJ J'· ::i ~; d '.'L C ·[·· ·.i. 0 1'1 0 U C->. I" t hE~ f :i s hE:~ I" y ,

MR. TOIHN : ~:)hameFt,-11

rJt R . Jl-10 I( C A 1\J :

~ ·) h .:unr. f 111 !

T + h o 1.1 g h t , cd· l h E~ t ·j mE>. , 1'-1 r· . S p r~ '" k e r· , 1· h <-1 l-. t h ;') l· l!kh i n d r,' (~ d '" rn:isquo'LE'. T ·t-hought· for· surE:~ th-.i !>

tMdS nul· dnc:l could nol: be l~ he

official position of a party in NE~I1Jfot.1ndl and 111h .. i d1 I"Hpresenting, :in· this• case, r·ur·al arei'ls of OtH' Pr·ou i ncr~

I',. ·' many

where only

the oF

l:he fishing industry is thE! i.ndusi:ry and ·i. s 1 ·i.ndP.<'!d, J.ifE!k>lood of lhE•se rural. parts

L85l A p r· ·i l 1 S , I 9 H 8 Vol XI

ot.lr' c->.r:onomy ·i. n Nr~t1ifound1. and .

MR. TOBIN: Thai~ lildS ·Hw TtAI'i 1.1 i ng"tc'~ agr·ec,Hnl=!nt . •

JI.1R. rJtORGAN: That was the position that was 1-.<~ken '1-hr:~n. Tl· ·i~; notAl I:)•'H:kr''~J t.q;J.

I Lhought that: 1.~1as a rn:isquoho', a ·t. l" hi·) ·l· l·· i Hie :-)o' rJtr·. ~)PC'!i'l k I'! I" I r said, sur·pl.y l. he L.-ibE~raJ Par·Ly 'is no1· COIIIIJ'I'i ·l· j · · j i"J<j pol i l-. i 1>'11 Stti c-i dr,,?

Th<,~Y must bE-~ able Lo debal·.e t.l-1'.1~;

. j ~; ~; I I (~ i 1'1 d r• t'~ r~ •; 0 n ,·.1 b l e I;J<:~ y <:'! I I d C 0 Ill r:•

Forward w:ith something mo re r:oncr·cl · (~ ·i" ht-~n St)lfii'!OI'lf! sr.ty·ing on behalf of their parly that Lhey ;-qru opposnd l·o i'·\ny <~tdd -i 1-.: ·i onHl jurisdiction ouer the fishing i n d u s l-r· y . 11 u l- , 1 o •Hl d b e h o l cl , -L n

this uery debate, that same gHnl:lr,~ nli~tn spe,'lk ·ing For· ;:. .. 11 oF his

par·t.y - · I IAri]l darE! ctnybody E:•l. sr:• S fl fc' <:·l k f 0 r• h -j S p cl r• t y · [ I .1 n cl E'! I" S 1:. a J'l cl that is the position of that party al-. l· hr:! pr· esf~nl: +:. -iiWc~. ()nd I hi"!Ul'!

t:. o b e f a t r . -t. o t h E! h o n . g E! n -t 1 E! 111 cH1 1: o lrli'\ !< e s 1.11" t'! I· h i ~> i s n OI.!.J l:: I·H:·

offictal position, so 1 tAiclnt.., i:l g H ·i n , I• o q 1.1 o l-- ('! f r· o rn h ·i s ~; p P E~ c h t n this uery debate.

"I haue expr'E!SSE•d thE! opinion, and H· -j s I· he tri r,~l~l 0 r l· lri ~; p i:ll'' I· y I ~~r· . Speaker, that this Prouince doe s no·l· hduc~ lllr:~ r:·; n<HJ C i r-11 Cdpaci t·:y t-·o

p a y f o r· -l: h e j u I" :i s d ·j c t i o n lA I e h a lJ E:•

n Ol•l, l (~ I· d l o 11 (! ~; e e k ·i n g

jur:i.!>d:icl:.oi on to manage 200,000 <; q tl···1 i'' e lfl i l f~ ~; o F I h P No I" I h Atlantic . Tt -.is a charade . It i s "' sh.-·llfl

11 Tn ol · hr:~r· I;IOI" cls, "i l- is a sham, Mr· . SpE~aker', jt_ :i!; El ~;harn

f o r• l· h r ·~ Pro lJ i n c e I· o g cl i n i;tn y 1110 r· e cluthor·ity or· jur·isd :ict·.ion Ultclel" l•hr.- ~-1eech ldkr'! ()ccord, and il: ·is

d:isgusting, E!VE!n Furt:hE!r, to seE• any weakening of ~ he Federdl g6uernment and it s powers.

Now, I do hopE! today, in fact, I a 111 r· at h (~ r· c o n F i d P n t 11.1 E! I.Al''i. l l s l=! <,' , a

more rational posi ti.on bE;ing t:cd<E:>rl

No . 17 R8S1

by at- l0.ast OrlC-:! TTIPmb~H' of" that prtrl·y, of l· he Opposi1· ·ion f do not knot.a.l t11he·HtE:H' t·he other· mmnber·s •'li"C bl. ·indly ·;uppor·L ·iny, <H' bc ·ing for·cl.'~d t-o ~;uppor·t the pos:it .. ion t ,., k t,~ n b y HH"' ·i r· l r.~ <HI e r . T j 1.1 s 1: cannot. r·at-.i onaltze ·in my OtAm rn:i nd hot•J :· ·he,~ lrtf.!rnb:=·r· for flonau -i.s h·l Nor·th I the ITIE!mbE!r for TtAJi1li.ngatE! I

t. h ~:~ rn rwll:w r· f o r· F o g o , HHc' rn E! 111I:H:! r for Port dE! Graue, and others who ar·t:~ r·f~pr·esent i.ng f'i.sh:i.ng arr-~as I

can say it will be a sharn; their party l: o b.1ke l::he pos i.ti on that: Jt: wiJl be a sharn for us to have more s d :y o ~~ H r· l:: hE:~ f i s h i n g .i n d u s t: r y , tAJhen every day of the u.Jeek they rnusl: be in r:-l pos-i.t: ·ion t:h•'lt t1Ji'\S bt"oug ht F ortAJard to 'Lhern I e xamp }E! s of 1.-LJhr)t'r,~ 111P do • cJpf i n·i l-:t-)1 y nr"!<:Ocl ITI(H' (c' Say 0 U e Y' {·hE! p r· 0 b J. 10' ITI S t. h Cl t. tAlE! hr.·wr,~ in t-ht"! f i sh·i ng ·i nd1.1s 1· ;--y i· o bf' a b J c,) t· o r· E:' so J IJ E! 1· h c~rn at t h c->. J o c a J 1 f':' l) P. l .

So, ~-11:'. ~)pt,~r'tlu~r·, il· 11Ji'1~; no

~dJrpt--·.i.:.(-~ whPII T I''C~ad a h~~adJ ·i ne in The Eueni ng Telegram ''' l i l·l l c)

11d1·.i le <'Ago t111i:i ch s ·t-- a ·h:!d thcd al lr;!r-lsi·· orlf' fiiC)IJibf'r' ,,,,.,., yo ·ing lu bt"c-~ak t''i'l.nk~; t1d th h.-J.s piH" l:.y and !Alas no i· going I-.e) ddop 1- I he pos i i_---i on notAl be·i ng put FcH'I•Iard by UtE'! lPi~der of i· hal: pari·: y . 1 C•HI

under·stand t.~Jhy that samE• gr:!l·ll--1 r,,rrkln, I;Jhnn hi'~ I~Ji'lS l eadet" and he - spoke for thE:' same party back in May of 1987, 1-1·11,' mr,~rnber· for· Mount Sc:io I took a morE· reasonable p o s i. t "i. on I a mo r· e r· a ~: .i. on ~-l l. posttton I and I I th'ink I a pos:i t.ion that all NPwfoundlanclers will accE~ptl the samE! position thE! govPr-rllnPnl-: 'i.s 1-ak i ng.

For 1-ht~ nr~111 lt:~adr'!Y' to cornf':' in clnd s u d d e n] y s B. y I

1 No I tAl hat the for rn E! r l f~ddr'!t' 1 s posi 1-- ion 111<:~s i ~; <'ll.l l•tr·nng and thc-'1 GovE:!rmnE!n-t- ·of Net~lfoundl and ·is ,,.-,, I~Jr'ong, I r lliOUlcl ~><-ly, r·k SpeakPrl hP th:inks most of the p 1e1 o p l e i n 1\1 f)IAi f o 11 n d 1 i'll'l r:l 4:11" t·~ l•tr' on g , b(-!Ci'luse thE:·y ar·e a]J say-.ing ·the

I 8 S /. npr·il Jr;, 191313 \Jn 1 X I

samE• th:i ng. In rny ·t·t"aVCo'J s T have nol· fo11nd un1) pr!r·~;on int.Jolur=•d ··in U1 e f j s h j n g i n d u s try t: o day I tAI'.i. t h ·l·hc nxcepi·ion, tn<~ybr~. of rJJr·. CaSh j n h :i m Self ·- hE~ IAIO U] d g 0

d iffr,~rr:!nl:l y ·fr·otn <"vr:!r·ybody Plsf:! but: lAJOUJ.d agrE!E~ t:.haL thE! PI"OV~incE!

hcls d l'lf~r-:!1~1 'l:o h.::1Uf:! rnot"r,~ say O~JE!r'

that most important industry.

AN HON. MEMBER: Cash·in ( 'i. naudible).

MR. MORGAN: My colleagUE! sajd Mr. Cashin, and r· ·ighU.:y so.

For r,~xampl t,~,

J.il:t1e quot.E! l E! i· ITIC'!

ft"Orrl jus i: thE!

g i tH! a f o r·tnr::! t"·

lHc-H:Ier·, spPi·l!cing FtH' hi~:; p.-H'I:y, and thE:' very good position he h r'·1 d T !lJ'i ., 1 j l.l'd" q ll 0 :- H f-1 lrli'·) j C>r'

pr.n·t. Sf..lys Mr . Barry: 11 I do not i·h ink I· her-r'' h,~! ; been •-•ny 91" ,,.,.. .. , I'

o p p o s j t :i. o n f r· o rn '!.. h i. s s i d E' o f t: h e 1·1 C) II Sf) I_() i· h i:l i· p Y' j rl C •·j fl l r,' 11

speak:ing. of the pr:inciple of <'ldr:l-ii· io;li:ll jlll"·i~;dici ·ion '1[ 1- hink a J J 1\letArf ou ndJ <'.lnder·s r'E! cog n·:i. ?e t·.- hal:. ihr-~ r-~x · i~;i ing sl-.dh' nf jt.ll'··isd ·ic1· inn reJat:ing to the fishery is not s 11 f f · i c i <'! n 1- p r· o :-r,, c i -i n n f o r· t- h i s Pro v j n c e . 11 H ~>. tAla s so r ·j_ g h t t··.i·H'! 1'1 , r r'Hfl hop; i'llj YOII l•li ll hr,~ar· l:: hP !>flin('!

thing again today, Lhat he d i s ,:-1 ':3 r P <'! ~; I•J ·i t h h i s par· i· y -j n l:: h -j s stup:id position they have taken tn o p p o !3 ·i n g t h i s P r· o v i n c <-'! h a v ·i n g 1 no t" E! say over one of its most important i.ndusl-r··ir-)s. And nof: just on~~. [ would say the most important ·i n d 11 s t· r· y t: h a i· t•Jr,~ h ~~ u I'! .

T Y'C::'CAll, members on ,:-~1·: 1-t,'rnpt-i_ng i·o that tAlE' were

Mr·. thE!

Speah~r· I

other SOI'II(;! std<:!

l8dlit-:' l:hP J.ooking

i rn p r· f>. s s i. on for· total

over thP fishLng j 1.1 r· ·i s d ·i c ·: ion industry. How tAJI"ong that has been ThP. clocurnr'•nl- ~:; .-:·:tl"e aua:-i J.ablE!. The posjtion was put l-or'11JiH'r:l by l'l-11-~ gotH~r·nrnen I· , no l". by a rn:i nist:pr·: When T 1.~1as m.i nist.~H'

l\lo . 1 '7 RBS;J

and, indeed, when my friend for Tt~ri.l. l. i . n g a L r,~ IAJr.l s rn -L n i. s 1·: ~=! r , i. t·: IAJr.l ~' put. fort~.lard to Ottat.~.Ja that. becauSE! we had so little say over the fishing j nduslry, IAH=! IAiere seeking s h a r' e d j u r· "i. s d i c ·1-. i. on . That ·i s 1·· h c,, kt=!Y t.o.Jord, 1 shared 1 . We have nevE=Jr gon(;;~ i·o o ·t·l-_al•~<'1 and sr.d d, 1 We IAI<Hll ..

total control over the fishing i.ndu s l:r'y. 1 N o tH! r· , r.:1 1: '" n y 1-. ·i 111 e .

W h ;:q I· do 11)(,~ I1Jr\l'l 1: ~; h ,,, i" f:' c I IAri i· h 11 !) ? Tl1c~t i.~; a b::oy qtlE!Stion. The->. lc,~nder or 1- hr:! Oppo~;·il·.ion !:;hOIIld

hc~ue sur·E!ly i'lskc:~rl thc:~se kinds of quc-:!Si "·ions ·in i· hC! deb<·1h~ br~fnl"':'!

adi~mc:J.nU y cJ osing thE~ door' and s r•l y ·i n g ' 1\J I) ' n I} !; h ··11" (! d j II r· ·i s d ·; 1: I ; 0 n Ol" no add:i t:i ana] j ud sd:ict ion. 0 i· l r:·111J.-1 s h o 111 d n n I· rJ i t) e NE!I1.1foundland any rnorP r e ~; p o n s ·i b i 1 i , .. y o u e r· , .. he f ·i s h ·i n g i n d us tr· y . T hell:. is thE! p o s j t ion of l.:he l. .. i.ber·<:'ll Pc1r l:y.

Can fi. shc,~r'lfHHl .in TI.~.Ji.l. J.ing<:~ ·t-e, or· in VCllleyf:i.eJd, or WE•sleyuille, or M u s g r· c.'' v e H iH' b o u t' , o r· ·i. n F o g o , o r· Seldom, or out. in . Port . de Grave, IAlhl'Y'E!VC:~r' it IWi.gh r . br:~, n0111 ff:!(;!l. comfortable whPn they have a p r' () b 1 (:~ rn IAJ"i Hl I". h C:~ f e d !'! r' r'll. government setting quotas in the bc1ys, 11Jhc,'+.:l·ll'!r' ·i 1: be->. on dny spec:ies, and they disagree with l·:hese q110i':.~s bc,~-i ng se1·, o1n I•JhPn ;~

f-.i shEH'ITii'.Hl he1~; a p1nobJ E~m. he:' cannot gel .. r:·l Full -·t· ·i1nP. fishing 1"ic:nnc:r:! d E:! s p :i h>. t he f i:1 c t he h a s f :i. s hE! d r 1111 - I: 'i liW r (I r Hw 1 i'l s 1-. f ·i ll (~ <H' ~;; X

y(,~a.r·~:. OJ" hr·' cdnnot gE~t l.hc->. <'lppr·opl" i <~ l· r! r·:·~g .. i !; l·r'r'li. ·ion fnr· i1 i !; Ut-!~:sPl bc->.causE·· she happE~ns to be Fir'o· y n ·inf~ i'lnd i'l h,~ -IF fpnl· IAihcn i'o ·

~; h ou J d b P f :-i f l y • n :i n E~ f C-! E:~ t , o I" SOIIIC:!'i · lring oF l:hi'll- ndl ' llr'f!, c:.:cr1 thE:!SC->. f:i.sher·wen no1.1o.1 go be1ck to 1·Jwi r' hOiflCS i'lnd F<:~r:!l , , 1 Oh, 1•1Cc~11,

look, because thP Liberal Party S.i:\ y 5 0 r 1- ;:.\11k\ S h 0111 d h a V P ·i {-: C:\ 11 ,

Ottawa wiJJ resolve it all? 1

All. 1:-.he m .. inisl· t:•r' is saying <:·11:. l~hr,~

1.81)3 Apri1 liJ, 1988 VoJ. XL

present tirne on beha1f of gout'!r'nmc'!nt, c:u1d l::ho Pr·t:!rn .. i.(:.r is saying, and the reason IAJhy hE· has so <'ldamantl y fougl·1 ·l~ to h.~ve

fishE!d.es responsib:ility under t:.l'lE' 'I 9BB Cons 1-. i.l- ul-. i ona·l Confer·ence, a major success in itself - th:is Pr·c,~urier· IAii'!S succc,'ssful. NcHJa

Scotia was not pushing for it, New Br·unsi~.J·ick I.1Jr'\S noi· push .. ing for· ·it., British Columb:ia was not pushing For·· i 1:, dt=!';p i 1·0. ·l· hc,, f ·i sh i ng ar·c:~i\\S

on thE~SE! coast] j nt=!S, t:.hE! lTii::tn IAiho f0119i1 i: f~r::J·' ·i i.· i'trld go ·l· i i· ·i l'l l . hf~

A t l i'1 n t j c A c c o r d . IAii':l s P r• ('! nri ('! In PPc:kfor·d nF 1\int.~iFOIIi'lcllanc:l

SOI'-1F HOI\J. MF.MBFI~S :

Hear, hE!Clr'!

MR. MORGAN: ()nd 1- hEti· -is I~Jhdl- •;our·s 1-.hE:! l 'iber·al Leader today. He will not give c:r·nd ·it: t~Jher'P cr'pd·il ... is d11e. That:-. is the whole problem.

But the former leader stood in ti·Li.~; Housp and '[ r'C'!dd fr·cHn I-:I·Jio! cornrnents he madE·.· The hon . House /.eadC:!r' Or l·hp t-ilTlP, 1'101.\1 i;1 l'llf:!lnb~:!Y'

of thE! SE!nate, stood here in t:h:.i.~:

Hnusp and brougl11- ·fot'I)Jr.H·d a r·E:!por·t frorn the issues thE! dcty thE!Y r'r:~r1C:hr:!cl r'\ dr,~c -i s ion on I- he Me('!Ch

LakE! Accord, and the foriTlE!r lE=!adl:~r·

s+:ood 11p hl:~r·r.' in 1- h -is HOIISc:' <·1S a man, and rightly .so, on bE!half oF ~-l1-~11JI-011ndl i·lnd "'lnd ~; i.ncer'E'! .l y congr·atu1at:E!d the E•fFol"t.s of l·:.he Cou<-:!r'nlnnni· oF gE!l.t.'ing Lhe~>E'

F o r·l•kl t' d , ·i i'l r·c->.sfionsoi b.-i] :i.ty Con~; I· i 1111. iondl up l.h:i~; YE!dr', lAW ,·H'i-! l.jO ·i ng jurjsdiction.

MR. BUTT:

NewFoundland in :i.SSUE!S bi"Ol.lght-.

gci· ·i i ng f "i shc:ol" i I''S

on 1-hP Co n F r! I" r~ n c c' c o 1r1 i n q

and :i.n mdk:.i ng su1"e io hr'lllr' a shdr'E:!d

Rr·1ng br'lck fl,u·r·y . l3 r· .i n g back Barry, I say.

MR. MORGAN :

No. 17 R8S3

1\lotAJ, Mr·. n1ernbc-!l"!: sow:· I h i ng fltE:11TlbEH' for·

;) fl C'! r'l k C r' , k not~J caucus

l.·h,:qf· did of the

Cjl.l"i ,. (· ~

flo1ount II 1'1 f i.·l ·j r· Sc:i o.

Lo the There is

no·l: one Net,Jf01111rll c'lndF!Y' h11l. ,,Jill <:t g r c~ c~ t- o 'l. h a 1 . B u t t o s u d d "=' n 1 y t "' k p lri !) p 0 l i c ·j f'! !) r'l n d l·l'i. •; posj ·t j ons, ''Jh'.'i r.h IJ.Jere good for· aJ J of 1\lr,~l,Jroundland, dnd IJAJ'isf· l·· hr,~ln

ar·ound etnd go totaJ 1y agains L them bf:~Ci'lllSf:~ l:hf:'y happenr,~d f·o be •'I

pos~H-tve thing for· the Government of Nr~t•Jfoundl.c:trld ~nd for i-he Premier of the day, that is noth1ng short of ~otal

jrresponsibility.

And t.hat ~~~ader·, Mr. SfH'!r··ll<r;!r', ·thc-~rE:~ is no question, is going to f·o Sl,l'ffr'•r ~he pol ·i 1: ·i Co"·ll consequences of his position . Be c a u s ,,, i f h r,~ t r· r'l tJ P l s l~ o R o n '" v ·i s I· r.1

Ray and says t.o the fisheriTlE!n, I rHrl OppOS!'!cl I" O 1·hr,~ 1\Jr~t•JfOI.IndltHld

Government having any say over the l ·iccnc:·ing of ·inshor·c 1-ishf:~r·nwn ; :~nd

Htej r· boats ·-

MR. T0[1TN : li ('' h ,., s ·~lll" n ,,, d ':1 !) s:l i d ,. h .:·1 i:

M f~ . MO l~G ()1\J :

He h<':ls pos ·iJ ··ion. for· a1~1lri J E:'

already taken thal H C! c ;:·1 n tAJr'l ll OtlJ ··i n 1·: h i !;

<:tnd h·y Lo t1~1:ist .it iH'OIHlci i:·lCji'l·i ns 1··. the <HitFi Cf' uf lfiY good friend fr·orn Tw:ilJingate, 1~1ho

T ;::11fl sur·c· is so, so lrluch oppospd to Utis t~JholE! matter, thE! position 1··. a I< f'! n . l·l r,~ h ,,, s · ~· o b r,1 . T h f·l u r,~ lAiatched that man perform. He is one of the best grassroots po1iticians in Newfoundland.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: H ~~a r· , i·H~ a r· !

MR. MORGAN: He lAJas a good mern~wr of P clr' l i a HI f~ n ·1 .. , I'll'! ·i s r:t good gl .. <'.lSSl"oot:s pol·Hidan, clnd he lJJas r·1 good M·in··isi·Ht' of F ·isher·ir~s rtnd T t~l:i 1 J l: ~d l you s orne t h :in g . T have

I IE) I~ ()pril :1r;, ·19HB IJol XI

h f) d r rl h i lfl tfi•Hl y l· ·j rrlf'! s i'll'l d T ~~ CJ r· ::• P

t~d t-h h:irn fuJ ly, sa'y Lhat W~! hauP !;O l i 1·1:1 c 1 n !;,·~':1 i· h•'t I· tAJr) hc:tue pr·act::icaJly no control,'"'~~ cannot: Cl.JCi'l dr!c ·i d(.~ if i·l f i ~ ; her' lfldn s ·i l: 1- i ng out in Toogood A r·rn h d s thE! r· j g h l. l·:o fi !; h or· no I· , or .. if h1·~ c,:1n hdt.Jr:o a licence for his boal or nol. !1nd r,~lJP.I'l tAJI·wn ·Hlr'l·l· . . ·is done'! by the Federa1 Gover·nrnent, IAIE! have no say o n IAJ h '" i: 1·. y p n o f f -j s h i n g g ~ ~ ;u· h e c a n u s e , lA I<~ h a v E! n o s a y o n 1.11 h e n thr.11- ·Fishc:'r'rrkHl UHl go f ··ishtng, what t:imE! of thE! YE!ar the SE!asons tlJi.ll opPn, and_llH;! havl:~ no !;ay ovt=!r' how much fish they can catch .

NotlJ, ~1r·. SfH~aker·, CiHl you i.rni:'lg-i ne the agricultural industry of 1,~,,! s 1- r'! t' n C i't n;<ld ~", ;:·l nd L he t~.Jh eat industry, bej ng controlled in that: llli:HHH~r by i hr~ Covc:H'I'lill(!l'll: oF Canada? Never, never, neuer. r h r:! y IAIO til d n f) l) c r· ·:-0 l r-:! I" i·l I· r-:! l:: h i'l 1-. ' And can you oi.rni'.1g:i 11E! thE:~ s ·ituaLion ·; f I• hr.·· y rl i d c n n I' r· o -, L h r'! agricultural industry of Western C <Hl i'l d l·l tHH:I s 1.1 d c:l r,, n l ':J I I'H'! r. o u fc! l" n liH'! 1 11-. of Canada sa :i d l o t he p l'' o v :'i n c E:' ~; ,

y C! !) • 1 *~ i-ll'' e g c:: i 1 1 g I. n g i tJ H y o u s o 111 n say over a major industry you h i'l tJ c ? l F 111 c rn b f! r· s t:: f I h n respective legislatures Said no, no, no, tlH ~ oppose, ·! · hey t~JOtil. d b1,~

hove out of their prouince ~) e t' i o u s ·1 y nw ':J IAIOt.ll d be

MR. BUTT : They would be tarred a nd feathered and r'tln oul·· on~ r·atl

MR. rJ!ORGAN: ·r rnean, it is sornEd: hi.ng unbr,~ ·l i.f~tJabl.P. Can [··.he l ·i.bE!r··al Party now rationalize going down and 1:~1 k Lng tAli l•h ·l:hn fj. !;helllC'!n dncl saying to thern, lAJell, fe1l OIAJS, !All=•

l<nPIAJ las I" yf:~t'lr' 1-hc:d· yott hc:1d a probl.ern lAlith the SE!tLing of quol~.as

on I'H'!r'l" ·ing ·in Hw bi'lys, IAJf:' kno~AJ

you haVE! problems lAd l~h quot:cls that tlJP.r·r:! sni· by l · hc• fHdei"Ft-1 GolJI'!r·nrnenl:: on Lhe mackerel in certct:in parts

~-10 .I 7 :~ ll •:) IJ.

of the bay, we know you have a problem wi~h regard to how many lobster traps certain fishermen can fish in the season, we know there is a problem tAJ:Lth regard to 1·. h C:! c u t t i . n g off o f t he s r:~ as o n For salmon and the opening dates for salmon, i'lnd, Mr. ~'Jpeaker, afU:!r' saying all t hat they will say, yes. lAJC knotAJ the PJ"obl.c:!JTIS ar·c there, btJt that is all Ottat.ua and we say J. e au e ·i. 'i: a l J. tAd '1-. h 0 f:. t awa . Oh, the votes they are going to gei: by doing that . The uolc:!S f:. hcy are going to get.

The member for Port de Graue, I am sur·e he agreE:!S - that his fi.sher1m~n are good fisherrnE!n. Some of thE! best in the Province are in h i s riding.

AN HON. MEMBER : No dotlbt c-1boui~ :i.t .

f\-1R . MORGAN: There is not. -one fishermen lAJould agree but the Province should have not total say but should have more say, a 1 i. i- ·l: le bit mor· e !>ElY - a little bit more say - over the fishing industry.

And that ·is dll, Mr. Speakr~!r, Uw Government oF Newfoundla nd is l. o o lei. n g r o r . A n d 1.: h (~ fa c t: t : h a '1:

this yeaJ", 1988, therE! t.~.rill be a Cons l:: :itutional Confur·oncE! deal 'i.ng with that very issue, Fisheries Roles and Responsibilities, ~his

Province may have to fight the ui.ew points oF Nova Scot:ir.~, Frotn my Ol.lln pr:>rspectiue, thE! lAJay I SE!e i. t. fhey may have to Fi.ghf: the viet.u points of NE!lAJ ElJ"unswick and QIJPbec on thi.s ·tssue, and how sad to have to go to these conferences with the L'i.beral Party in Newfoundland also fighting them. Hot.u sad i_t ·i.s, Mr. Spc->.aker, IAJhen all we arE! doing as a gouE!rnrnent is fighting for Newfoundland and Net.ufoundJ.andE!rs.

L855 Apr·il 1.5, 1.988 Vol XL.

Now, I had my disagrN!mE!nts with rninis l:eJns ·in Ott.at.ua over fisheries matters when I was rn t nist.er. e u e r y body k n OIAJ s 1:: h a ·r. , and T s t.J. 1 1 do nol.I.J as a rnomber·. And I do not thtnk l.:hcr·n i. s onf:• m~~JnbE!r', E·t ·LhE!r on the Oppos:l tion sidE· or thE! goiJC:!rnmE:!ni: stele, bu l:. lAri.ll corne down to the point and actually say we have had our problems in deali.ng lAri th fE!deral rrd nisters, whether they be Progres si ve Conservative or Liberal. And Cod forb ::i. d 1: h n N D P e v E! r 1: a k E! oFf "i. c e . But: suppose they did . ThE!Y tAJiJ.J. aJ.lAJays ha11~0! probl.E!tns gPl:ting l::he issue resolved at the level o f Ottawa because they are so far away from the actual activity. They are not tnvolved with i t daily at the local level. All the Pr'eJnier· has beE!I'l say ·i ng over· the years is, let us dPal with the local probll;~ms, l':.he local issues. Give us enough jurisdiction and responsibility ~o be ablE! to resolve those problems which are 1 o c a 1 . j _ rn p o r t: a n 1:. 1:. o HH:! n e E! d s o f our· f:ishing industr·y. That is c:~11

.toe have beE!n ~~Hying .

SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear. hear!

MR. MORGAN: We ncvpr· di.d S<'ly, Mr·. SpE!akc:~r, a s 'l:_he Leader of l·:he Oppos:i.t::i.on tJni~'·d

to s a y ·i n t hi. s d C:' b a l ... e , t h a -1 t)J e want control over the 200 mi le econorn-ic zone . WP nE~Vt'!r' sa·:i.cl that. That we lAJant aJ.J. the say in dealing 1~il':.h foreign nations or international negotiations. We never said that. We never did say we l.I.Jant aJ.l control ove1n t"E!SE!clr'Ch in the fishery in the 200 mile zone. We never said that. What t.ur:~ d·id say ( tAd.11 r'\':'peat again. We said we want: the following. and this is very important, Mr. Speaker, because in saying w~ do not need addtt:i.onal jurisdic-tion, it. is important t:o k nolAJ what the

No . 1 '7 1\8 55

Premier is going lo be asking for. My good friond l:he Minis1:Gr of Fisheries, when they discuss this very issue, Fisheries Roles and Responsibilities at the tJpcorni.ng Constitui:i.onal Conference that is now being covered and guarante:~(.;!d IJnde:~r the M"~ech Lake Accord, my understanding is, and the minister has spoken in this debate, that all we a1ne going to be asking for is the following: We u1ant control over, number one, 1 i.cenci.ng of -i.nshore fishermen and the licencing of the inshore boats. NotAl, 1..1.1hy 1.1.JOI~ld that bE:~ so bad, according to l:he L.Hwral Party now? The inshore Fishery and the inshorE! boats arE! totalJ.y 1. o c a l. . T h ~~ y o nl. y b r i. n 9 L h f'! f J s h into the plants, and l·:he plants r.:trE:~ under· l:he conl" ;nol, of l~he

Province through licencing. They do not do any i. nh~rnrtt ·i. ondl

seJ.Jing themSE!lves. That is nurnbE!r onP.

NtJmbE!r 2, I~Jr~ tJ.H::lnt (:ontrol ovrH' I'IE!gotiating the share of the tot.aJ. allowable cal:ch a1nong thP-provinces. Now, if the provincE!S c a n n o 1: a g r e e , o u r p o s i l:. i o n i. s i:: h a I~

it go to ar·bitration . So, all we arE! say-i.ng i.s that t-:he provinces in At.J.antic Canada have a control over setting the total. allowable catch within the region of Canada, a constitutional right, as rny colleague said. That is Number 2, we are asking for under Additional. Jurisdictional Responsibilities.

MR. BARRY : What was the first item?

MR. MORGAN: The licensing of inshore fishermen and their boal:s . . Inshoro, ~pecified.

Number 3, we will be asking for ~he se~ting of local the bays and certain

1..856 ApriJ. 15, 1. 988

quoLr'ls sPctions

for of

Vol XI.

thE! coast.. Not out off Labrador, -i.n U10. 2.T 1·3Kl. NAFO areas, or in semi-intE!rnational tJ.JatE:~rs or at. l:he .?.00 mi l.E! zone Li.mi t-., btl t within our bays and our coasU.i.nE! around the Province. fo have a say in setting of quotas :i.n our· bays. NotAl, is that not J.ocaJ. t:o thE! nE!eds of the fishing indust1ny of thE:~ Province, havtng a say over that most important issue? That i. s number thJ~ee .

Number· fo11r, which IAJC:1 have notAl dnd we want to keep control of that, i. s t:he J.icenc-Lng of f i.sh pl.ant.s. That is now in pr·ovincial juri.sdi.chon. T t:h:i.nl< ·i.t. t.~.dll.

always remain there.

Number FivE•, is J"ealJ.y, rea1Jy ·i rnpor·tani:, l.o bn abl :=! l.:o approve:! the fishing plans and the hdtnvnsi:ing pl<.·111S oi fi.sh companies. Why wouJ.d a company 1-o l:al.l.y located ·in N(c'J~rfoundl.and,

employing NE!WfoundJ.andeJns fishing, ernp J.o y i. ng NE!I~Jf ou nd lando r· s processing fish i.n pJ.ants, lAJhy t~Jould UH"!Y, and ''1hy shot~l.d UJ(!Y, havE• to go to OttatAJa t.o gE!t LhE!iln biiS i.nHSS plans appr'OVE!d f'OI" ti'Hd.r• activities in the fishing indtJs tr·y? lt · i.s absolutely crazy! Let these companies here be given that right.

And the J.ast one, Mr. Sp!:!ai<E!r, which I think is stra:i.ghtfonJJalnd, thai~ the Province should "have control over inland fidJE!d.E!S and f -i.sh Far·rning, aqLJacult.IH'E!.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MORGAN: To rny knotAJlr:!dg8, l::hl~SP arE! t:h(,~ soix major· points 1..1.1hich my coLI.l;!i'lgUE!S, the Minis~er of Fisheries, the Premier, the Government of NPt~JfotJnl:iJ.dnd, l· : hr~ M"i.ni.s ·l·:r:~r· of Intergovernmental Affairs and

No. 17 RH56

others will put forward at this Consb.tiJt.ional Conf(;!rence. I think I am being fair in what I am saying, and I am being acciJrate.

MR . SPEAKER (Creeni. ng) : Order, pleasE:~!

The han. member's time is up .

SOME HON . MEMBERS: By ].(~cllJ8!

MR . MORGAN: If I can concJ.ude, M.r· . Speaker, by Say j_ l'l 9 +· h r'l,[·: j S IAJh i'l i': [: h l S p r () V "i_ n C 0

.stood for in its talks through the Prerni.E:~r ~nd !:: hE:~ rntnJsi~Prs At U1e discussions leading up t.:o thE! Meech Lake Accord, and what we stand for now .

We know what the Liberal Party stands for officially through the Liber·al Leader and h i.s stah~ments

and comments . He is opposed to a further weakening of t~e Federal Government of CaQada, he is opposed to the Provi.nce having a say in appointments to the Senate, and h~~ i.s opposE!d to any additional say over the fishing indL1s ·Lry and t.h~t, Mr. Speai<EH', is ver·y sad.

SOMF HON . MEMBERS : HHrH', heRr!

MR . SAI~RY:

Mr . Speaker .

MR . SPEAKF.R : ThE:~ hon . l:he rnc~mbl~ l~ for Mounl ~'lei Q

- BeJJ. Land .

MR. BARRY : M r . Speaker , T 1~10 1.1 J. d l. i k E:~ 1··. o h"' v 0.

a few words in support of the rnot:i.on t.hat i.s bE! Fore the House .

SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hr:~dr!

LH57 Apr:il lS, 1988 Vol. X I.

MR. BARRY : Mr. Speaker, aH.: hoLJgh I r·eal .. ize :it can be twisted for partisan purposes, I arn nol: doj. ng th i. s to give rny colleagues on the other sidE~ of the~~ lioltSr:' any atTII'TIIJntt:i.on, I arn not doing this in order l:o d 0 v i. a 1-. 0. F r om U . b e r a 1. P a r t y policy. I should point out t.hat i}J h a i". T s r:~ y i s b a s i. U·\ J. 1 y , n o ~- :.i n all cases, but ba s ically r:on~; · i s l:r:!ni: 1.~ri t h t he policy oF thE! federal Liberal Party, and I b 0 J. ·i n tJ 0 , p r~ r !; on a 1 l y , i··. h a L -L t '1. s consistent IAlith the v:ieJAJS of rn a ny rn r;! rn b r-~ r· s . o F 1·: h r:! I_ J. bE! r· r1 1 Par· t y within this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hr:~ar, hc~~ar!

I'-1R. BARRY: HotAJeVE!r,. tl: is not cons -L st E!nt 1~ri.th

the posit:i.on of my co11E•agues :i. n caiJCI.IS, and I appre ci at e th E:~ Fa c t that I have been given n o d:iff'i.cul.ty in speaking OIJ t on this particular issue .

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hc~~ar, hE:!ar!

I'-1R. BARRY : I think thE·re are CE!rtain 'i!>SUE!S I.•Jhr~~r·e, t•.Jh<:!t:hr~r· :i. i~ i s a pi"Obl Hln f o r· you or· not, you hav e t o s p E! ak o ut b r~ c d 1.1 ~; r~ L h r=! r ::! are c e ,~ t. a .L n i s s 1 J E! s that go bE!yond caucu s so1tdaJ~:.i.ty,

gr) beyond C.'l binpi·. sol i. drH'iLy . Issues as fundarnen t aJ. to this Prouinr:0 and this natLon as the motion now before the House is one o f l. h o c; e i s s u C:! s o n IAJ h .i c h e v e r y member should be h e ard clearly, E~IJPY' Y Jllr~rnb:~J~ shoiJl.d spE'!i~k out honestly, and E:' VeJny TnE!rnb E!I~ should pur th0 Provj n e e and the c o unt r y before the party and befo r e personal amb i tion.

Now, Mr. Speaker·, I do - not do th:.i.s l:.o creah~~ chff .. i.ciJl.ty for the current J.eader of Uw Libera]

No. 1'7 R857

Par·ty, but it i.s my plan, it is rny d f:! d s .ion , as 'l on g as T. r e rna i. n i. n lhjs House of AssembJy, to speak oul:. T. c:lo not-. knoi~J, al: l~his poini·. in t:irne, IJJhether I will be running ·i.n l:: he rw x 1·: p r· o vi n ci. a 1. e 1. E! c 1-: .i. on . I have not t.akE!n a cle!c:ision yet. T havE:~ to 1 d p eo p 1 E! 1~1 h o have ;:'! s I< E! d that I will take that decision closer to when the election is called.

However, if I do not run, if I arn here only for another few weeks or months or days, .I intend, as long as I am here, +:o speak out on the crucial issues and to speak out IJJhat I bc,~lieve, wi. l.:h no fuzzyness, IAd.th no muddying of my posiU.on. T. 1Ar.i.J.1. not-: changE! ·from posi.t.i.ons that I have taken in thE! past in tlris House,~ unlE! ~>s T. arn J:>e:~lnSI.taded by members on Hd s side or on t.he ot:he1n s ·i.de l~hCII". my pos -i. i.:ion -is IJJrong.

l have to say that !"have not been pc:H' SiiCidHd 1-.hr'll': i)lf:! positi.on T. ~>r:!i:

out and that other members of this 1-1 o u s e , o n b o 1". h ~; i. d r:! s o f t h -i ~; li o u s f:! set out with respect to l t:! g is 1 a I·. ·i. on o v C'! r· ·1'.1·1 C:! f i s h n r· :i. C:! s , i s lAir' o n g . I a cJ h e r e t o t h e p o s i t i o n 1-. h ~~ t 1~1a s s t. a t E! d , t h a l~ Wd s q u o 1: e d by the member for Bonavista South . T. reaffi r·m that.

That :is one of l::he r·easons, just onE!, but a fai1nly important on·E!, why I s11pport t:hc,~ Meech LakE! Accord becausE! I be!lieve that it will be useful, it wi.11 be h~lpful, to have fisheries jurisd i.cti.on .in fr·ont of t.he tE!n Canadian Premiers and the Prime M'i.n"i.stE.~r of· thts country when th~'Y

sit down at constitutional conferences, because we do not have enough say, at this point in t.i.mf~, in ·1-.he mr:'.lnagc,~rnc'!l1t of 011r fishc:H'Y·

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Ul58 A p r· i l. l S , l 9 H 8 Vol XI..

Hear, hear!

MR. BARRY: M (~ rn b (~ r ~; o n 1: h i. s s i d r~ o f t h e H (:Hl s E! do not disagreE! iAdth t:hat. ThE! prr~SE!I11: l.c,~adE!r, as I 11ndE!r·stand it, does not disagrE!E! IArith nE!E!d:ing Lo have more sr:ly i.n +·.hE! managc'!ln(;!n 1::

of the fisheries. But I, with respect:, havf:! l.:o s.~y that it ·.is naive to believe that you can have an adeq11ate say in rnanagern£~nt: of the fishing industry without having a certain greater degree of legislatiVE! cont:rol than IAJe haVE! now ..

SOME liON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear!

MR. BARRY: I ,,~,JtJ.1. s<'lY l ~ hr.d· l Cdlll~:· -inl-o 1-:hi~=;

HousE;> of Asse mbly in 1972 and I c~.une i rl'i-.rJ Ci'tbi. nr~i: ;:~s r.1 s l:r·onq believer in a strong C(!l1'l::ra1 govf:!rnment. [ hdlJt'' l·:o s•:~y l:o members of this HouSE! l·.:hat:. rny views changnd anrl changed fi't lrly quickly because of HlE! YE!al~s t:.hat I spenl·. in C<'lbinul- S<''<'! "i. nq hOIAJ :ii1E!ffectiVE! IAJE! IAJE:'rE• i. n gEd .. l:.:i,ng tilE! ear of tht=• (;ou t:! l"rllflE'•n 1". of Canacld on behaJ.f of the lPgitimal::E! CCHlCE!rns of people in this Province in areas whE!re IAJe d id not ha vE! legislative jur ·isdiction . not listened to.

WE! ar'E!

It is likE! the old story of Lhe farmer, IAJho h:is neighbor· ser~s gO('!S out to get his mulE~ cHid the F:i.r·s t. thing he does 'i.s p i.cks 11p Ul"i.s 2x4-and gives :it to the mule right between t:.he two eyes. The neighbor says, 'What, in heavens name, i:H'(~ you abusing t.hat poor animal for? 1 The farrnEH' said, 'I j11~>l: ldan~· c'!d to gel: hjs attE!ntion. 1

Min, Speaker, S OTnE! t i ITIE! S you ft:!E!1 t h<'l i: thi'l'l: ts Uw only l.lkl y . WhE~n

you ar·e in Cabinet , IAlhE• n you C:H'E!

No. l7 · RH58

dealing IJJith Ministers of the CrOIAJn in Ot.t.awa, somed::i.mes you feel that that is the only way you can get their attention. Even though it is a matter of great significance t.o i:hr,~ Province, Un:~y

have other things on their mind. They are wore -i.nl:.erested in other issues. Their time is taken up by other concerns.

1f you have logi.sl.cltive j IH' i s d :i. c t'.i o n , the n they h a v e to l. i s 1: r~ n i·: o yo IJ • T h r:! y rJ o no I~ h a lJ e any choice . That is IAJhy I bel.ieVE! t-.h;'IJ-. rnot~e leg · i. ~;l.at ·i. tJr~ jlu·-isdi.c ·l':-ion is necessary than we have right nOitJ.

l'-1r. Spe;:.knl", I co1.1-l d go "i.n l.:o a great legal dissertation on the Mec~ch l.ake Accord, and l .. o a

c e I" t. i'ri. n e x t r:01 n t: I 1.o.Ji 11 d E! a 1 1.1.Ji t h l.E~gal. JssuE~s. but- 1 bel. -L eve, Mr. SpeakE!r, that the Constitution is too important to be left to the lav.Jyers. ThE! Cons t.i tut.ion is for all. the people of Canada.

The position that onE! takE!S, Mr. SpE!aker, on thE:~ ME!ech Lake Accord a n d o n t. h e C o n s U. t u i: . .i o n g E! n e r· a J.l y depends upon what one beJ.ieves abo1~'l: f<::~der·al. pr·ov i.nci.al relations, about the role of provJ.nci.i.'ll. gover'ntllenl-:s, aboul~ ·~:hr~

reJ.ationship of the provincial. govc;!rnmenl··. l~o l·:h::• fE!clerdl government, and it reflects the p (~ r· $ 0 n I s v i f! lA) 0 F l·. h e c t'lrl i'\ d -j i'\ n r'l n d Net.ufoundJctnd socif:~ty gf:~n<::H'al.ly.

Mr . Speakel", Jet me say first that T do noi-. i'\Cr:::!pi: t:hRI~ i·l·lt:! po~;il-.i. on

of the current Premier and Ca tri n r:d·., t-.1-w adnri. n .. i' s t: l"r'li: ·i on oF this . Province, has adequately r· E' f 1 E! c i ... (~ d t•.J h rl t: l s i . n U1 P- b o s 1-. interests of this Province, bE!Cai~S'=~ 1 t.h ·i.nk they ht'luc:~ gonf:! too far·. I do not fault their mot:i.VE!S. From 1-: i.TIIE! to t "i.1nc,~ t:hey lapsE!, ·but generally thE:~ir rnoti.ves

1.,8 1)9 Apr·il. 15, 1988 Vol XL

are to do better for this Province .

M1~. Speaker, the PrE!rnier and other members on the other side of the HouSE!, I submit, have gonE! too far· in terrns of creating an irnage across the rest of Canada that all I)J(:~ aro "i.nt.<::~rr:~s l:.(~d .i. n :i.s oursE!lves, that. IJJe ai~E! greE!dy dotJJn hE!re, that we have no concern for the Canadian nation, that 1.1.Je arE! out 1 G·iuune, qi1nmc~. gi.1nrne, mor·r,, oi. ·l, oil, o:i.l, fish, ftsh, fish . 1 This i.s ·Hw ·imagr~ IJnfor·LtHlah:!l y t.hat exists on thE! mainland of Canada r'lnd i 1-. t~X ·i ~;i:s, h) d ·Lu•gt:! dr,~gr·r:!E!,

becausE! of thE! Pr·ern:lE!r and mE•rnbr:·r·s of l·ri. s Cr.1b·i nr~1~ not Hlr:dnh:d.rd ng an adequate balance. It is a dr~l.-i.ci'll:r~ bal.;:u1r:P., Mr·. ~:;peaker·. r admit it is not an easy job .

Let rrw say, beforE! I gE•t into rny rC'!rnar·ks, l-.hal:: Nei~Jfot.lndland has suffE!rE!d. EVE!rything I said urit h respect to the offshore, the offshore negotiations, and the probl.t'!ITIS [·: hal-. IAJOI~ld rt'!SUl.t:., IAJhr::-n I

said it in 1981, ·Mr. Speaker, I do not.: haVE! to tab~ back a IAJOI~d oF that any rno1~e than I havE• to t<:lkE· back a word wil-.h respect to what [ said about the fishery. It has happened, Mr. Speaker.

The position of members opposite caused a delay in gE>l:.ting a ~; r:! ·1-. i : '1 f''l n n n i'. a n d I~J c• 1 n :i s ~:; e d t: hE' boat. Mr. Speaker, t.he unForh.ln<'-'i :e part: -is l~ h<'lf': t:h()l.lsands and thousands of Newfoundlanders losl·. r~ITlployJflt:!nl ·, losi~ l.:he d ··i.gn ·it:.y ·that an adequate salary bd ngs t:o i· h r~ i In l. i lJ 0 ~; .

l.ot: rne s;::ty, Mr·. Spo.~ker, l:·.hat. bol:. h s:i.dE!S of this HousE! have to C 0 1'1 ~; 'i. d f;! In I.~J h E! r• e t.: h P y 9 0 i 11

communicating their position From th.i. s Pr·ovince 1-o HIE! pE'!OpJe oF Canada bE!Cause that is onE! oF our jobs.

No . 1 '7 R859

Mr. Speaker·, I believe that my vi. 01~1 oF Con F r:! d C! r· <:l t i. on , oF t-. h c~ r· e ] 1-l t j o n s h j p of N E~ IAif o u n d J. a n d t o tho 1n:~s t oF CiHli.-l.dr:l, is no!~ grr~ai ·. ly

d :iffer·ent from that of many pE!Ople -i. n t hi s Pro v i. n c e . T b r~ l .in tJ f:! 1: hal: a greater degree of decentral l zation is bettor thAn the situation we had before the Me e c h I_ a k :~ A c c o r· d a n d , 1:. o a cer· tain extE!nt, we have sornE! decentralization as a result of the Meech Lake Accord. We have more provision now for negotiation between the Government of Canada and the Province. They have to negotiate on ·CE!rtai.n i terns now which they did not have to negotiate on before.

We do not y e t have adequate control oul:>.r· OIH' rnar i. no r·esoLII"c e s, Mr. SpE!akE!r', in my opinion. ThE! Me:~ech l..akE~ Acco1nd t.~ri.l.J. ned: sol.u(~

that but it mOVE!S. i.t in a littlE! d "irect-i.on by ptJI·:t:ing 1-.ha-1 : i. t:E•tn on fisher-ies on the constitutional Ag~Hlda. Tl: ~H,~lps a b-i.i ·. "i.n l'!lOtJi. ng towards a greater degree of r:onttnol . SotTII:! dr:!r:nni·l"al--i ?.r.ti·.i on of cont.I"O] ouc-H' 01.11n mclrine resources J Ul'ink t~Jou 'ld be good . Nol­cumpJ E~ t.e contr·oJ, . th.:1t j s not u.Jhat t•JH Clt"r~ J.ooki.ng for do1~1n hetne, btJI: some decentrctJ.ization.

rhc list that my colleague from Bonavista gave is not very far out from IAJhat- I u.Joul.d acce:'pt. as legitimate concerns and ar~as where the Pr·ovince should be involved. I u.Jill not takE• the time 't. o go t h r o 1 J g h i . t_ i. n de t a i . 1 now. Mr. Speaker, those who oppose t:he ME!ech Lake Accor·d, at. times I feel aS though they are f r o z E! n. i n t i.m E! , a s 1.: h cw g h t h e ideas werE! frozen j n time, not pre-1980, btJt pr·t~-1970 becau s r.:. u.Jhat has been going on . in t.h:is counl-:r·y and i. n l·:hi.s Pr·ov i.nc:~~ rnus l~

cause us to recognize that l'li'ltioni'll r·econcili<'ll ·. ion i~>

L.860 Apdl 15, 1988 Vol XL

necessary .

What IAJen ·t. on w-.i.th the Pe:~quist:. E! in Qtwl:wc:, i·he Parl:y Quebc~cois? llllhat u.tent on u.Jith the refer·endum? We I.~H~ re for-t:LI n,::~ i-n to IAJi n i 1:, bu 1:. do not Jet anybody assumE! that that u o 1-: :~ on t h 0 r· E~ Fer· end 11m · i !; q o :.i. n g to solve the problem of the S e:~ p e1 r a t: i . s t e 1 erne n 1: .i. n Q 1 J e b P c forever and a day. The only IAJay that we will mainta t n a strong Canada, which I believe in and support, ·i.s by ke~~pinq QuE!I:H:.c a part of that Country. That dOE!S not mean l: hat 1..\JE! giV E! up everything, or give thern ever· y +: h j_ n g that t-: h t::' IJ 11.1a n t. . That: does not mean that. It means l. o o k "i.n g i'l t· l-. hE! i. r l E:! g -L t. 'i 1na t (' concerns with respect to prE! s C:! r· ~J a I: :i on o F 1·. h (! i. r c u l l: u r e i.i\ n d t h e i r· l a n g u a g E' a n d d o i n g 1.11 h r.l t j ~:;

I"E:!i:1sonab:J.t::1, t:i'lk:i.ng a IAJE!ll bi'llancE~d

v'.i.E!IAJ of their lnE•quests and giu-.ing i : h~1m, i~o '"~ rei':lsonr'lbl e lC)X 1-:(.:.n 1: , 1~1hal~

they seek in terms of protection .

Mr· . Speaker, · I be1ie_vo that l:.hE! Ml:!r~ r::h I ;:~!<8 Acco1"d i !; r.t I"Ui't ~>onctblc?.

balance in l~ erms oF IA1~1at ~~~~' give r o r n .-::~ l': i o n ,~ l r e c o n c j_ l i a 1: ·i. o n . 1111 c_=•

havE! not given too much, and j _t :i s tH~ r y , tH~ i" y, i tnpo r· h'l n t·: Uvtl-- L•.JE:! g oi. u e as mu~h as is requested there .

SOME HON ,. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BARRY: M r . 5 p e a k e r , T. IAri. 1 l. c o ITl o b d c k t. o the Quebec issue in a moment. J 1 J s 1.: g (:1 n e r a l. l. y , t~d. t h r e s p e c t t. o the phtlosophy of thoSE! oppos:.i. ng thE~ MeE~ch l.ake:~ Accor·d, thE!r·~:! i~> a fundamental, Jog.-ical, -:i nconsJst_E!ncy -i.n l:he posi. t.-ion ft"Oin t .ime to time.

On thE! OppOSI::~

bE! cause Lhn

No. 17

one UH:! it

hand, i.t Meech

IAJea k E! n s Go tJ r.:. r nrnP n i:

is said, 'WE! l.dkf" Accoi"d

t h (:! p OIAI~'!r' 0 f of CHnade~, '

R860

part.:ic1Jl.ar1y Lhe potAJE:~r l:o distribute to the poorer prov""i.nces. On t·.ht:~ ol:h(~!r hr.Jnd, tt is said, 'We oppose the Meech Lake Accor·d b<~'caiJSe I•.Je tJJant t.o be able to reform the Senate and the Meech Lake Accord rnake:~s it. di.ff ·i.cul.t to reform the Senate. We want to have an el.<~'cte:~d Sc-:!nat.e.' Why? 'In order to give greater regional representat . .i.on . ' In othE!r IAJCH'ds, to take power a~ay from the CE!nl·:r·al. governmt:~nt:, 1-o '1-·.r:~kr~ poi}Jc'!r at.>Jay fi"Om thE! ct:~nt.re. Now IJ.Jhich -i. s i.i"? Wh i. ch is it? H: hRs l:o be one or the other.

Ejt· hE!r', Mr·. Spefll<er·, we opt for a sl"rong(~r· or'~'~' sl-rong ~' Fnd,,~r·r.tl

g o v e r n rn c~! n t e~ s tAle had s i n c E:~ be for· P

i·. h C! M €~ C! c h I."' k r~ A c c or· d , o I" r~ l s 0. 1/.J r-~ opt for· a l1?SS s tr·ong FedE!ral gouer·nnl\":!nl:, R<:!Ct.·wse, iF '•Jil.-1 r· ef o l"m t. he S(c'l'lclt: E!, Ml" . SpeakE! r·, IAJ h e t h <'! r i. ·I~ b C:! b y r:! l r,' r: t J n g ~ t::' n a t o r· s or by any othE!r means, if you r E! f 0 I" Ill 1: h e S E:' 11 ;:~ l: 1':1 1: 0 g J V E! ··j t gr·eater input from thE! regions, to g -i. tJe the:'! regi.ons grt:'ai':er 'i.nptrl-. into the Government of Canada t.ht:'n, Mr·. Sp€~ai<E!r, ar·t:~ yo1.1 not. weakening the power of the central goV(-:!rrnnent.? I bel. -i.E!Ve .yOIJ ar·e. I do not think that those tt.~Jo

pos"i.l:i.ons ar'E! con~dsh:•nt becaLISE!, if you rE~for·m thE! Senate and gj.ve 'i.i:. more pot}JE!r, i.t Flld: ornal:.ic;:~lly

ITIE!ans there is lE!SS pouJE!r in the HOIJSE! of Commons.

Not.•.J, ·i".hE:' S€'!rll.·1h~ -i~; par ·l- of i:hP. central governmHnt. Let. us not for g C! I~ 1·: h a ·1: , J:)IJ i: I;J hal- IAH'! <:1 r' f'! te:tJ king e1bout is penni.t ting t.he GOlJC:!rnrnt:~nt of Ci:'t11<')df.l, 1- h:~ CE!I11 ... r<1l govc:~rnmenl-, to takE:~ dPcis'ions thclt. dr·c! ·i ~l H1H besi: ·i.ni·.ei"P.si · s of i:he (-:!ntirr:! nation. If you ar·E:~ put.Ljng 9 J" e r.-1 1 .. (;!I" r· <~ g ··i on"' ·1 r· C"! pI" P son l-. a 1: ·i. on on the Senate, thf.lt i s going to be g r e ctl·: E! r r P. g i . on r:~l r o p r· e sent. a 1·. i o 11 ,

not just frorn Newfoundland. It doe:; not mo;:tn ·i r is 9r·e;" l·.: er

L861 Apr·il 15, 1988 Vol XL

r e g 'i. o n a l. r c~! p r E! s E:1 n t '" t: i . o n j u s t f r· o m Newfoundland or just from Atlantic Canada. There is go""i.ng to be greater regional representation from B.C. and the~~ West. C(~'nl:.ral

Canada, no, you are going to havE• the Ol:.i~aiAJa-Queb€~c numbE!r's on l:.hr:?. Senate reducE!d. But the West? That. :ls t~Jhy 111bc-:!rl.a i.s push·i.ng For the triple E Senate because thE!Y t.•Jant t:o have gr€~atE!r input .

F lJ r~ r· y t h'i. n g t h '" +- (11 be r L i') s ~~ e k s .i. s not going to bE! in thE! be s L -i. 11 h.:! i" 0. s l .. s o f N P.I;Jf o u n d l. a n d , f i"i r from it, from time to time, I;.J h n l-. her· 1 1·: b r:• dol. J t.'l r· s or· '"' h €~ t h l~! I" it bE:~ in po1icies or' pl"ogr' arllme s

t h '" i: '" r r~ b r o u 9 h 1: -L n .

:')o T br:!l .'i.C'! IJC! i·.h ,'\1· i". hi <; ch oJc H of a 1:1 e l e c t e d S e n a t. E• u.ri. l l c a u :.; e a r·ndu c ·l:ion ·in l·. hc p oi;Jr:~J" or· t:h('' Government of Canada to proceed t;J:'i l"h ndti ond l progr·am111Ps s u c h a s members of thi s House say they IAJi:~ n t 1·: 0 i«,H:q:J thE! f E! dE~ r t:~l. p OIAH'!r' f 0 r in order to permit distribution of fund s to thP poor e r' pr·ov i. n ces a nd so forth.

Mr . SpE!akE!r, thE!rE! is also, I fE•ar· frotn ti.rne 1-o t..i.me, a going back l:o thE! beggar rnE!ntaljty thclt E!XistE!cl 'i.n tht~; Pr·ov i.ncP for· a l.onq t-.j.JTle, for too long . That t-.he onJ.y IAicly I•.JE! c '" n 9 €:! t. en o 1.1 (~ h of U r 'i. s P r· o v ·.'.i. n c E'

out of OttaiJ.Ja is :if we go thE!r' E'! t>J 'i l:h c<.~p i.n hRnd, you knoi)J, haul=~

our lobbies behind thE! sc e m•s, if IJ.W di"C:! and so i · l'ld i·:.

n .. ic:n <'tnd fo1~th.

·j f I)J e iH' E~ C[l t:i 0 f·.

I do not bE!l::L'eve

r b 0 l i ,,~ l) (~ I~ h d i': ·I: h (;! t•J d '!I l,lj n IAI i l l. (:!j E! I:

t.ht~ most c~ ut of Oi:t.awcl is by l:hE! r () r (: e 0 f 0 u I" "i rl e i'l s I b y I' h e r 0 r' c ('! of debate in th:is House and in the

• P r o wi. n c e , ;:-1 n d b '!I L h e a c 1: i o n IAJ ~Li c h LIIE:~ take l:o show that Uw pE!ople of !'his Prov.i.nc: ~ hauP s er t ous concerns which must be listened l~o. And t)Je hi'lV(:! 1- o get: HJOSE!

No. 17 R861

-i.d(:~i'IS and, I~Jf~ havE:~ t:o gr:d: l-. he,~

dE:~ba'l-e, not just in Nel.llfoundl.and, not just focusc:!d do1lln hr~r·c~, b11l··. ctcross the nation.

T. hat)(~ al. l~Jay~; bc,~1 -ielJP.d, Mr . Speaker·, th1:1t. if we say more r.tcros s CeHlctda l:o poi.nt 0111-. 1·1o1~J yo1J wilJ haVE! ct strongE!r Canada and a be,~ l~l-. r~r· Ct'lnr.~dct i .f you have~ economic vjabjlity in Newfoundland, I belJt'VP. thc.~i: L~JC,~ C<-ln convincE! people right from Victoria right across th<:·ll-. yes, ·it. rna k es s ens lc'. Tt is not just a matter of NeuJf ou nd land say -L ng, 'Wt'! want. 1110 r·e ctnd more because IJ.Je are greedy. ' It ts d matl~er of say:ing, 'Lc~'+. IJS have a strong Canada from coast to coast. U:!t IJS hav(~ a Cr.u1ada IA.Ihere thE! people of N(:'IAifoundland and Labrador do not have to S(.H'' a lower . health care because they cannot afford to provide the doJ.lars, or a lower standard of education because they cannot. afford to proui de the dollars . ' We arc Canr.~dLans!

G 0 0 d h ec1 ~~ V 0 n ~) 1 T h i'll) 0. 1 .. 0 S r'l Y I~J (~ cJ 0

not have a very good image as Ne1~rfoundl ctndt!rs in roron'i:o. So1110. mdy say, 'WeJJ, IAJhat the heck. ~~hy 1~1or·r·y C'lbOIIl- ·i 1:?' I;Jhy do 1.1JP. not haue a ve~y good image in Tor·on l·:o?

T.t i s because! so 111any of our· pt=:wplE! have had to go to Tor·onto so poor i'll'ld haiH! had SIJCh gr'Pi'l'i' difficulty E!Ven in Toronto, IAJhere ther·c.:. i.s lots of C"!lnpJ.oyrneni~ no~AJ,

in surviving with the cost of l : i. v i. n g , for (:! x a 111 pl. e . If t: he y go up there with no money in their p o c k e t s , the y l. i. v "'~ i n a 1~1a y "i. n Toront.o that is not dignj.fied; they live in a IAJay that r·esul.ts in frustration on their part. They· get inl::o t.roubl.<:~, IAJhet.ht~r i.t b~~

through drinking or whatever. There are reg1Jl iH' rc,~por·ts .in the Toronto papers of another

U36 /. ·A p r· i. 1 l r.; , l 9 B B \Jol XI .

1\J<:~I~ifOIJndlRndr:!r hatri nq donn tlri.s CH'

a not her Ne1~1f au nella nder hav :i. ng done i:hrli·.

Mr . Speaker, that is a bad imagE! for U1 ·is Pr·owi.ncf.! b11l: T do nol.: blame it on the people who have gorw to Toronto. My h~~i'll~ t qoE~s

out to them l.r.Jhen thE!Y E!nd up in a bi 9 C'i l·: y 1o'i.i·h no money "i.n U·H:· -Lr p o c k e t , no p 1 a c e to s t a y , and '"'he n t.hey ha1;r~ lv-Hi to go l~her'E'! because t:.hey c"annot find jobs to suppor't themselves down here.

They ~et a job and ctll their money is going just to pay $400 - I have spoken to yoiJng fel.lot•JS IAJho haVE! gone! up ..... $4.00 for a s:inglE! roorn, bar'E! IAJf.,ll.l. s, a s .i. ngl E' room! That is thE! going rctte in 1-. hE! centr·a] part o ·F Tor·o n l~o noJAJ . Wh ·i l e thE!rE! is a Jot of employment in Toronto, a lot of the job s Rre at the minimum wage.

Mr. SpeakE!r, I do not li.kE• seeing H1 a t , b 1.1 ·t t: o g e I~ b a c k I· o rn y p o i n t. , I do not likE:~ the irnpr1:•ssion that -j ~; g i tJ e n . T. d o n o 1... f: h i. I') I< j 1·: d o e s

anything for· the CanacLi an ncl ti.on, noi" i·:o Si'·ly for· l'JP.I.•JfoundJruJd, l:o have the existence of that s·il-.1,1.·:-ltion 1~1hnre~, br'!Cr'liJSE! l':hor'E! is not econom :.i.c v:labiJ.:l.t:y ciOIAJn I'H'!rc"•, pr~op l e C:-\1''0 d l"·i lJen 01.1 ·i.. oF t he Province. OftE!n they go aiAJay

IA.Ii .J-.h011i': l.hf.! Cc'diJCi:-lf:i On bPCdi.I SO thl:' dollars were not there, either I:H:!Ci.·lusc;! i.:hC'! 'il" flrH't~nt· ~~ \)Jei"E! not employed properly or because the qui'l.l.j l:y uf ediJCCII~'i.on :·in the · sc hool IJ.Jas not up to scratch, becau sE! thE! dollars were not l':here for the r'esourCE!S, IA!hichE•VE!t'. ThE! Canad"Lctn nat"i.on suffers where Newfoundland suffers in this way.

I believe we have a Jegitimate cas<:' l~o make->. r·ight across Canada. We can ~hange the image of Nel~Jfoundldnd by gEd: l.::ing out and debating issues and it is that

~Jo. 17 F~B6 2

lAIC! y , by g e t. t i n g a c r o s s thE· f o r c E! o f o 1 H' :i. cl e a s a n d o u r c o n c ~~ r' n s , that we will establish our r:~nt:i.tl.ement as a r i.ght ·l·:o bPt.1 ·.~:!r

treatment than WE! are gE!tting nou.J fr·orn the Canctd i.r!ln nat"i.on. WE~ do not have to go u.Ji th cap in hand, and I do not think very many members of this House think we do.

Mr. Speaker, one of the reasons why T s1.1pport th~:! I'-1E!E!Ch l .ai<e Accord is because I think the time has passed for consti.tutional. debate of the magnitude that we have hctd over the last saueral. dl=!cadE!S. T thtnk IJJE:~ have to gE!t on IAJi 1·: h n a l: -i. on f.'ll. r' r'! con c "i.l. -j ''~ 1·: '"i. on . T t.h:j nl< IJJe have to get. on with f -j rlel'J.·i .ci ng t-he WOI"k 1··.hat· I!Ji'1S ~;t·dr't. ~:!d on thE! constituljon, not f 0 r e l) f:! r . r h ('! r' (~ ,,Ji l l tH~ 0 H·w i" d me n d rn e n t s , <.-.t s I I Ali 11 mE! n t j o n i n a lfiOrrlf'!l'l+·, i··hdi~ ShOIJld br:! Hl<:1dr) 1 b1d·.,

Mr· . Speakc->.r', our enc-:~rgies should be dc->.uol-:ed t-o cr'P.r.d:i ng jobs r'a l··hr-H' than enge1ging in esotel":ic dE!bat.e o n 1:: h E:~ c o n s I~ i. +-. IJ'L i. o n . r h c~ i: i. s d

very strong reason·, I think, why TTIE!mber·s shc)IJld cons:i.dc'!r supp_orl·: i.nq the motion now before the House.

The status quo, by the u.Jay, is not thc,!r(,~ anymore . It. i.s th(! sa1ne as fr·ee trade.. We arE! not doing a frpe -1-.radE! deal because 1~1e l"eal.1y u.JantE!d to, because that u.Jas t.he mos 1:. pr•c,~s s i.ng t.h··i.ng on our' agenda.

We are doing a free trade deal becaus(~ .i.f I~H'! did not, I~JP IAJC'!r'r,~

going to be cut off from exporting 011r goods l:o thr,~ l.ln i 1-:c~d ;J1:f'1{·:as. WE:~ had no choice! Mr·. Speakc,~r, tn l:hE:~ samo IAJ<.·11J, 1"w hi'1lJC,~ no cho i Cl'! in this country because the stcd:us q110 pr-ior l·.:o l:h:~ Pncpd ste, pr•-i.or· to the referendum, prior to Mr. I..E!l)PSqiiC! r'C.:!fw;ing i·.o sign ·H1e ·l,·~sl·

consti tuti ona] amendment, the S [·:i'1l:IIS q1.10 · j S ned· r1lJdi.'l c'1bl P. '1:0 liS anyrnor'l~.

L863 Apr·i.l. 15, 1988 lJol XL.

We have to get on with the fu i·.:ur·r:~. , W<'! hc:·1UE! l:.o IAJork For· i:.he future and the way U.JE! do that is by support-i.ng the Meech Lake Ac.cord.

People say, 'It gi.VE!S spE•c:i.al status l·:o Q1Jebec.' Every province has spE!cial status in one u.Jay .or anoth(H'. l. ook a l: N~~IAJfCHJnd1and

wtth its denominational E!diJcati.onal. · sysh:'m. ~~e <H'E! special! But tAJe haUE! to ask, -.is i t 1- o ct n I.JrH' E~ d s cHl a b 1. f'! d e g r E:' r.:• ? I s it going to dividE! the .ne1tion? Are WP. going to have 'Two Solitudes', not spE!aki.ng t.o E:•clch ol:htH' ·{n Quebec i'\~; a r·r,~sult: o·F t:he Meech Lake anwndmE•nts? No, I IAJO 1 1 l cl s <:·11J 1· h C! g I" r,~ <'1 ·I·· e I" r' ·i ~~ k o F 1-.: h d 1: :i. s if IJJE:~ do not pass the 1'-1 r~ E! c h I dkn ."lrnenrlinc~nl·. Thc•n '•He> 1~1i 11 •:/l'J I·: back to Quebc;,c rnouing furt .. hE!r' a1.~1ay

f I''Oin t: hn lf~t:-d n s u~r:! r:-1111 oF C<"Hl<:·1d ian li.fe.

M r . S p e a k E! r , lAl h E! n y o u 1 o o k at t·h a t p r' o v i. s i on, by thE:~ IAJa y I For preserving and promoting a d i.st-i.nct. socJety, you havE'! l··o look at al1 that SE!Ctton. You havE• to look dt thE• faci·, Mr . Sp~'!ab:!r',

that right at the end of that section it ~all<s aboul-.: no dE!rogati.on from the po!JJei"S of the L e g :i. s 1. a t u r· C:! .

Mr·. Spc,~akE:H', you h<:~uE~ 1-.:o look at: many of these sections were concerns hdue been rai.sed, where it says that: l:hey cH'E! rner'E<I.y aF-fiJ"Hiing. WI'H'!r'J'! i::h<'!Y l~l:l.'l.k aboul· the fact that Quebec is a distinct soci~:!ly, i-hr,~IJ r.H'C:! only arfi.rul"i.ng that tha~ is now the case, J~er:ogn·i ring l•lhi'l{'· ··is <:·1li"Pady E!Xisting.

Mr. Speaker, IJJhl':Hl l:hE:'Y say the con~; 1- ·i I· 1 1 +· ·i on Jnu ~; i· b 1':! i n 1- E! r' p r' e I· l:! cl to recognize that Fundarnenta1 r· ·i gh1·· I people g::! 1- 1-·E!r'r·if.i.('!d. 'Oh, this is going to take away the

No. 17 R863

dghts of tAJomen, this is going to take away the rlghts of abod.ginaJ s, this is go:j ng to take di~Ja y Hli s r· i.g h 1·: i't nd t hr'l 1··. r-ig h 1-.. 1

Who is going to be interpreting t.hE:' cons+:ii-.u · l~-ion? Jl·: -i~; no ·l: Mr. Levc~sqtH!.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) .

MR. BARRY: No, unfor·i·unr.ti".8l.y tAd t h u 5 . T t i s Robc,1ri- Rour·assa .

he ·i s not:.

11 0 1 0 1'1 9 ::! In going to

It is going to be ct panel of Supn~rne Court of Canada judges of IAJhom the gr·(~at major i.l~y iH'E:1 go:i.ng to be English-speaking Canadians. Why shotJl.d anybody Fear '1-:hat that court is going to end up giving an tnt.:l'>-rpr'E•t:at:"i.on t.:o l:ht! consi:."i.i·:tii:: i.on that is going to depart s-LgrdF .. icani~l.y from the prot.E!Cl:.i.on of those fundamentaJ. rights which a l. l C a n ad -L a n s s h o 1.1 l d h a v e i. n a J. 1 par·ts of the country? I just do not s r,~e it ..

I d 0 n 0 t. Hl'i 11 k i·: h r'\ 1·: i ~; e X lc1 r c i s 'i. n g common sense to assume that the Suprr,~mc Cot.IY'i": of Canar:l<'l i ~; go -ing hl pJ ElCE:~ an :i nt.elnpY'C"!tat.ion on 1:. h 0 S (! I~JO r cl S , -IAJh i C h c'U" f'! llJ(c~ r 0. l y -.int-r,,r·pretoivr->., tAihich c-.-~r·e se ·t out: to di:'Cl r.ll"(;! IAJhr.\ [: i'll rf:'i:\rJy 0.Xi ~;1- ~;, IAJh ·i r;h ar·e SC-.!t out as not intending to t·:i.'tkf'! dwr:~y or r('!S l:r·i r: 1.. l:h8 ex i !d·.·i ng l"i ghts of lE:~gisJ.cttur·(~s· . Mr. S p e a k e r , I I: hi n k t: h c't i: i s a f.~ l s e r.tJ ar·m, a fa] se fear and I do not. set! i 1·. i'l s b E:1 i .n g a s :i. g n i f i c;:~ n 1: rectson for opposing the Meech Lake Accord.

I have heard recently - I am sorry he . is not hE!re today - frorn the Leader of l::hE! NDP (Mr. · FE!I'ltAJi.c k) in this House and from others that the s "i. t.u a t i. on "i. n Sa s k a 1- c h t;!lJ.JiHl "i. s an ,examplE! of the !AJeakness in t.he Meech l_ake Accord. That -is not e~n

L864 ApdJ lS, 1.988 Vol XL.

exampJ.e of a weakness in the Meech 1..<'\kc,~- Accor·d. Tf any 1- iri.ng if.: "is a weakness in the prior amendment to i:.hr~ r:ons-1-:i.l.tlt. ion tAihr"!r'e yotJ h<~VE!

this 1 Notwithstanding 1 clause t~Jh ere p r· o v -i n c i ,~ l. 1. c,, g i . s l i't 1:. u t" e -j s able to say, 1 Notwithstanding r.t n y 1-.iri. n g "i n Uw C h c::tr' 1·: e r· o F :~ i g h I~ s and Freedoms, 1/Je do +:.his or· . 1.~1o do l""hi.oli: . I

I IAJould · hope, by Utr:~ !AiclY, Lhat tnf~tnbr,1r's oppo~;"i.l:r;! or l-.hP pr'E:OSC"!nl: adrninistr·at.ion tAJould do that !Ar.i th g r ~~ d 1'. , g r r,~ r:ll: r: <'lu t: "i. on . T tAJo 111 d never like to see membe~s opposite r:otne .. i. n"l:o ·i-. h-i~; J-I(WSf! tAd. lh a bill. thaf starts off 1 Notwithstanding <'lnyt.h·.-i.ng .. in th(:~ Char··l·l'!Y' of R·ight-.s and FrE!edorns. 1

MR. WELLS: Ii-. shot.lld n(~Vc~r bE! done.

MR. BARRY: No, and it should not havE• bE!E!n in the pr ·i.or atnendrnE:1ni-, ·i-:n rny opini.on, but, that IJ.Jcls cl nE:~got i.cti·"i.ng fac l··.or T as st.rrne had to go in in order to get t:.hE! t.h-.ing ~;igrH:1d. So, .i.t ·is l.:i. kP E!VE!ryUl"inq else, a part of a 1.oaf is bet.t:::!r Hli~n nonr~ . You Ci'.lnno t: gE! L perfection. Meech Lake is not flr"!Y'f 0. c-1: ·j 01'1, by i he I~Ji'l y, c'l ~; 1: IAJ"i. ll. mention in a moment.

But what. has happened in :J;~ s k;:~ 1". c ~H~t•kll'l i'lc'\ s happpnc~d b(~ Ci'\U s e therE! tAJCls a st·atut.E:' on t:hE:! books Hlrli" cou-ld br. r·opoc:llc:!d. Jl·: t.~Jas

not part. of the constitution lhc.:!re, a:;· ·i1 .. is in Quebc~r;. dnd as it is in Nel.AJ Brunswick, that thE~

F r· ('! n c h 1 a n g 1 1 i'l g r,1 i. s E:! n s h "i. r· n (~ d . T think it is unfort.unaU:! t"'Jhcd~ P r e rwi. EH' D r:w i. n (~ h i:·l !> d o 11 e . I t h ·:i. i'l k it is a big mistake. I think j +: hurts thE! pr·oc:E!SS of national reconciJ.iation. But he had done i t . . [Ill('! lA) 'i. J.l h a V e ·1 .. 0 !) E• E~ IA.J he t h l:! r the Supreme Court of Canada 1.1 p h o l d s 1-.: h e p r e s C:! n ·1-. !d i:t.1 a t -i. o 11

No. 17 R86lJ.

no''' . R u L , rk . s fH~ a!< or· , i t ·i ~; no I·· because of Meech Lake.

As far· as the effect on equality r-Lg ht: s, IAIOHH:Hls' r· .. i g ht s r>~nd on aboriginal rights, I am prepared to r·ecormnend that: i.n ·thl:~ fuhu·e there be amendments for greater c C'! r tat n t y , not. be c a IJ s e t h e:~ y ;u· c->.

needed, but put thern in and say for greater certainty the provision with respect to Quebec ts not: i. nt:e:~nde:'d l.:o aff'c:!ct '''hE:d:hC'!Y' it be the rights of women, the rights of aboriginals, and the fact that multiculturalism is al.so a fundamen f·.i•l'l feai·:ur·p oF C;:~n;:~d i.an life, and the Constitution should be,~ ·inl~r,,r·prF!r('!d to reflE:~ct l·:hr'li" t.~';

IAH~] J . Put it dll in t:hc->.r'r:', but lE!I us nol· hold 1.1p Hw Mer,H: h I ,-~ko. Accor·d for FHc!r'fE:~ct:ion, bE:!Cduse you i'l r· e n u L 9 o ·i n q ·I · o g r'! 1-. p ('! r f f'! c f· ·i on i n l his 1~1or·J d. Ml". SpE~akc·H'. The p r· i:-1 r; i: i r: d 1 r e r~~ l. i +: y ··j s ·i F IAie d!) 11 n I· CJ. p p r o v E~ M C'! e c h l. a k e • j f 111 e h o l d i t 1.1 p b 0. C d 1.1 S f~ IAI 0 IAI i'l n +· t 0 S (~ !,~

<:-Hnendrnc~nts, you ar·E:~ not going to gC:~i - your· ame:'ndrn8nh; exc0pl· r.lfh~r

much debatE:' over a l.ong period of t"i 111r,~. Find, ·in my op i I'd o-n, irrepdrable harm would be done . As Fctr as relations with Quebec at"E! concE:~r·rn:•d and t.:hE! r·est: of Canada, I).Je L~IOIJld SC-:'1'::~ i.r'rE!par·ablt~

harrn, and for what?

What i. s ther·e notAl, Mr·. Speal<t~r, ·i.s acceptable. It is not perfE!Ct. I do not: l. ·i. ke, for ex,;unpl.e, the fact that l:.he Yukon and the NorthWE!St: Territor ·ies are no~ given inpu~

into Supreme Court of Canada appo ·i. n l~lriE!t11-- s or· i. n-1- o :~end ·i· r,, represC"!I'l Lat. ion. That i~; not r·-i.gh ·!-. . I 1-.h "i nk t-.her'E! hi.-ltJI'! 1-.o b1-~

arne n d rne n t s t o g i v e t h e i n h a b i t a n t: s of t.hosr,~ ;u·e;:-~s r· ·i ghl·s . l•lh i ch 1·:hey do not n01~1 havE:~.

1 arn no ·t-. h<'WPY 1~1i ·t. h l:.he process of Sllfll"nute- C011r·1 : i'lflflO i n1 rrH'~nl:~; . T

h;-~vr:~ to sCJ.y l~hat. l·hat. ts one area

1.86 5 Apr· ·il lf-), l9B8 Vo 1 X I

111 h r-:~ r (~ r d o happened is plnOlJ 'i. 1'1 c·i_a 1 necessarily

HJ'ink IAihr'll· ~;ho1Jld haV E! there shoul.d have been

councils, not given to provincial

p o l. i I: i . c --i ;:~ n s , councils IArith-

but: pr·ov :Lnc .-Ul1

MR . MORGAN : So the province has more say.

MR . BARRY: Yes, . and IAii ·th input frorn t..hE! pr·ov .i.nc .. ir:·ll gover·nrnE:!nt and not just. leaving it to the provincial adrninlstri'lti.on uf the day, because, let us face it, thet"E! at"E! nHHIHS l".hH ·I·: 90 01'1 l·.: hE:!r'e bC'!Ci3.lJSC'' there are certain political conn 0 c 1-. ·i on~; . T +· ·i s be .i n 9 don"'~ i:'t ll. across Cdnada in the past, not j I IS 1·. hPI"C'!

r ;­t.hE:~

~ j s no ·l-- nHC!'! S Sdl" 'ily '''r' onq, by IAJay. 1, cl S a rnE'!rnber of t.h .:i.s

ilr)ll s e , g r! 'l" l ·it! i d I•Jh Hn T h o cH' somebody say, 'Oh, you cann o t:. <:lppoi ni· so and so bc,~Ci:liJSe hH just but: of politics.'

-j s

If you want a sensible decision Fr·orn i'l· judg(~ l".hi'll-- you ;·,lppo ·.:i. nt· , IAiho i s going to have a b e tter s ense o f ~101•1 peoplE! fe e l i.n U·w · COIJIInurd ty than a politician who has been out t.hE:!I"C~ on t·.he fi.r -L ng l ·i.ne s deal. :.Lnq v.Jith peopJ. e for y e ars? So J support. u~ I dS ITIE!IrlbE!r S tni.qht say. I support t t.

Tht'Y' C;:' IAias a furor aboiJ t IAihether· or not the rnernbE!r for· St:. John's E<-.lst. should br,~ appoin~·t:!cl l.:o the bE!nch bE• cause he IJ.Jas just out of ·th :i s Chamber. l'here is absolutel.y nothing IAIY'Ong IAJi.th t:hat. ThE~re :iS ;:~bsol11+·el y no-1-.h i.ng IAir·ong IAI"i. t .h appointments of poJ.it.icians b n c ;:~ I I ~; 8 i·: h (! y h t'tiJ n r'l g 0 0 d ~; (:! n s e 0 F judgE!ITIE:!nt and a good knoL~Ileclgr,:! oF . 111hd I· i irlpi-!Cl. l~ hf'! i I" dpci S ·jon~~ di''E! going l::o have upon the PE:'ople r'lfi"oc1:c:!d .

1\Jo . 1 '7 I~ B6 S

Mr. Speaker, I have beE!I1 given a one-·rn'inub:~ WcH'n:i.ng. If I could, r. have just a few more points to 1.1ri nd up. Thc,,re has been a lot of conCE!r'n, not just about the Meech l " akt:~ Accord, bu-t: abc)IJt l:he Char·ter, that. ther·e ar·~>. things now going t:o bl:~ passed ovr,~r· 'i:o j udgf.!S, taken at.~.Jay fr·orn the hands of elect:r~r:l r''~prHseni-:dl:i11es oF ·Hw FJE!Op] ~~ .

T hi'.lVE~ l o SciY, T clTTI a m:i.nori ty, I L lri n k , i n h o 1 cJ-i. n g 1'. h 'i ~; 11 i. f~IAI antongst· my legaJ col.] eagues, but I c;:qn def.end rny posi H on . I bt~l. ·· i c,~IJB

that the Charter of Rights and Fr'E!l:~dCJIIIS r.lnd ME:~ech u~kP. rr.H' from tald ng control away from P<u·l i.dlllent q .i.vPs rnot"e conl·:t"ol. 1-o Par·J.:iament t.han tAle had before. Not)J, 1.1Jhy i.s thc:·li: ? B1=!fore t.hE:' Charter of Rights and Freedoms was thE!l"e, a j lJdgf~ co1.1ld bas"i.ccll1 y go into any case and go one IA.Iay or the other. In virtually every case, a judge has to make a choicE:~. 'Do I go Ul"i. s l~lc:~y or t.hal: way?' He or shE! can find a l.E!gal r1Jl.e or pr'inc-i.pl.c-:! t:hc:tl:: can suppor·t tA.Ihj chE!VE!r' way they go. So if you -i.gnorE! I: hE! f<:~c-t. t-:ha 1-: j 11dg~;:~s do, ·in fact, hi-lVE! that choiCE!, that thE!Y do lrli:lke latAl i.n t·h,,li·· sc,~nsn, you Rn,~

putting a blindfold over your eyes ~·\ n d p r· o 1-: r-~ n d i n g 1·: h a 1... 111 hi:'' t-. go C! s on does not l"eally go on. In other lAJords, you dl'f:! gi1J·ing IJH,~ judg0 lotaJ ~rbitrary power.

ii'Jhat you have t·o do is r·e:~cognize

i·:hai· 1··he judgE! does h<·11H,~ · i:hdi: choice to make and you hi-lve to l-cl1 Uw j 1.1dge, 'Not,,, j Ltdgr,~, ''lhr-~n

you mt-tke that choice, do not do it bPcause . of IAlh<'t'l: yo11 l'ldd for breakfast, or· bE! cause of the way you g r P.lAl tJ p, or· b C:' c r.w s ~~ of lAJa y you tA.Ier·e toilet trained, or· because of your· Ot1m par·t:icul.c:H' h,u1g .. -1 .1ps. You make that dE!Cision using theSE! c r i t e r i. a I~ h a l: IAI e d l" E:~ s e:~ t t i n g o u t , ' and that is what the Charter of

L866 Apr·i. l 15, 1988 Vo1 XI .

Rights and Freedoms to a large c,~ x t . E:~ n 1·: i . s . I t ..i. !; c r· .. i. t c-?. r· -i a a s t o hotA.I judges should decide in ordE•r h) get. dec i.s·i ons t-.hn. t: propl:!rly reflect the concerns of lndiu "i. duals ~nd the concerns of their elected representatives.

Ml". Speaker, the last point:. · thcl't.: I IAIO IJ l c:J Hli'l k e , i'l 9 rl ·j n , "i S i () C 0 lllr'! b d C k to the - there are other rnE!mbE·rs td~lO ''li'lni: 1-o sped!< ,:Hid I do not want to i:-lbuse the good wi11 of t.he House ·in g·i lri ng rnn l r,'<'ll!e bu 1: Mr. Speaker, I would reiterate again I: h i'1 I" i. i: i s j II s -1: n 0 I: p r· iH: i: i, c <:~1. f 0 r· US to lAJait untiJ. WE! gE•t PC"!r·Fr-~c1·:'i.on.

Thr,~ l..i. I:H!r'<:tl Pari-y of CanacL'l has SE!t out, and I havE· i.t. hE!rE! :in Fro n t of me , c e r· t.i'l i . n am e n d mE! n t. s which they would like to see. r hE! r· ~~ a 1" c,~ one or· i':.IAJO p o in t !' I do not agree IJJith, but most of t.hern I agreE! wJt.h. "ArrH"•nd tn or·dr=!r t.o recognize aboriginal peoples, rrn~lt.ictJll:t .lrRl and rE!gional identities," I have fTIE!nt:i.onE!d l:hr.~t-. ''Of'ft:=!r' rnoJ"C~ pr·ot.E:~ct:J.on to official J.anguage rn:inor:i.U E!S." I bel-i.nue that rhRt can be done. We can improve Meech Lake, and we ,,Jill. by Fl.l'l-:111"0 iHTlE!I'lcllri~Hlh: . .TIJSI:: as I hope we will improve the p r· o lJ i s i o n r P 1 <'l 1 .. ·; n g 1". o 1:: h e f. i . s h P r' y

'in future amendments .

We can get stiJl better wording ,,J"i ·i· h r·espr-~cl: ·1-o ensur· .i.r1q !·:hal:: i:hE• ChartE!r of Ri.ghts and Fr'eedorns :.Ls pr'lr'r:~rrJOIIrJI • OVC!r r'lnyt.iri ng i"hi'li': i.S in ME!ech Lake, but I do not have v~~ry

grr,'rtl- crHJcer·n, IAJl'H'!rl yotl cons -i dl'!r who is :interpreting it and when yo11 con<;-i.dt,~r· l::hf:' 'AllH'd i.nq. I do not haVE! very grCc!at concern that. the Charter of RJghts and Freedoms is going to be abrogated. I mean, what are we saying? Are we saying that !.Ale do not trust thE! pE'op1E• in Q tH~ b ~~ c t o h a v e U1 E' s d 111 e r· lo' gar· d f o r· fundamen Lal rights and FrE!E!doms as

No. 17 R866

'•

p0ople in English Canada? Even ~~d i : h i·· lt•~ i: r· (,~cog n -u· ·i on of ,:., distinct society in Quebec and recogni ~ ion of ~he righ t of the prouinciaJ Jegislalure to promote and pr(,~S<:~r'lJ(,~ i-. ha ·l~ d ·i s 1-: 'i.nci .. society, 1.uhy do lAJe fE'E!1 that that i s go t n g to res u 1. ·1-. :i. n a IAH:~ a k E! n ·i. n g of the ChartE!r of Righ t s clnd Fr·!':~edoms?

T t.h ·i.nk t.hat. is a awful. impl.iccltion there bE!CaUSE! what u.Je arE! say"lng -i.s lJ..Je do not trust. the legislaters in Quebec to respect f1mdarnental. r· .. i.ght.s and fr'C"!E:~dorns in thEdr OWl! Province. I think they had just as much r·egar·d for· those basic rights and freedoms as we do . T. do not. sec,~, ("!VE!l'l ·iF 1-.hPy that absoJ.ut.E~ r·ight. jn ti1C1t clai.ISE!, '"1hich i~hey do nol:, bu~:

eUE!n if l:.hc,~y d:icl, T. do not ·t.hink l·:heJ"C I•JOIIl d b(;! dny grf'!d l: C ~hHlge CH'

any grE!r.d: impact upon thE' r·:ights iHH:I frc,~ eclolns H1Ft't ·. peopl ~~ IAJOIIl d have ·.in Quebc,~c.

Mr· . ~)pt,~•'l k e r, i .. he op 1 .. i. ng 01 Jl· ·from s ha 1" c,~ d cost pr·og r·arnrrll;~ s :is n ol go·ing l·.o t•JP.dkt=:!l'l ·Hll'~ <~b"il. ·il · y ·l·o implement a ne1tionaJ. day - care sysl· crn or other naHonal. programmes that would be of bE!n(,'F i 1.. l-:o t:h "i s Pr·ou-i.ncE! b(,~Ci'.II .ISf:!

the prov:i.sion is t.hE!re for having national object i ves fol.Jowed. NotAl, I like the L.IJording that: has been recommended by the federal. Libera] Par-ty where they say that t..uc,, should t.a 1 k about: rn-L rl"i.rnurn national standards. So that is anol:.her area ~here wo could get bE~tt.er 1.uording than is the r e nou.J. BtJt Uwse · ar;e j us ·l:. sornc"! E!X<.unplc~s, Mr. SpE:'aker, of the lAJay in which Meech Lake could bE! irnpr·oued.

If lAJe stop, ho!AleUE!r, thE! procE:'ss 11nl':il 11Je gel·: t- hr~s~~ dHlE!ndrne n ·l~s, '•IC:! ctl J know MePch I ake lAi i.ll go not•Jht:!r'l'!, ful·:t .IJ"(,~ 0'\HJenriHlf:!ni".~; l·o l·he const·j ·hJ'L:ion IAJ'il.J go J'lO!AiheJ"e, dnd

I B67 Apr··i ·1 1r,, 191313 tJo l X I

a 11 I" e J d t i o n s wi. t h Q u e be c ul:i 11 g o J'lO!!Jh(,H'r>. Tlri ~; nat -ion IAJ i :1·1 bE• harmed irreparably and I do not '> I.J fl p 0 r' i: 1· h c'l j · . ~~ 0 T a s k a l. l members to give serious cons-i.derdtion to 1-:hese points.

If I could say, ·i.n thE:~

another former leader 1. 'i.ber'c:1l. Par·ty, thc;!r'Co' :is to be made. He said, Canada. 11 1' IAJoul.d end by choose the new Canada.

Thank you .

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear·, hear!

MR. PARSONS : Mr· . SpE!a i<EH' .

MR. SPEAKER :

IAJords of of thE!

a choice "I chO SE!

Si':'ly'ing, I

l h ~-~ h o n . I· h F.! 1r1 c,nn b e r· ·f n I" S t- . J o h n ' s

Ea st Extern .

SOME HON. MEMBERS : H r. ;u• , h e clr' !

MR. PARSONS : Thank yo11, Mr·. Speaiu'!r' .

SOME l-ION . MEMS E RS ; HE!ar·, hear .!

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Or·der, plE~ase! Or·der·, p1easlc>!

MR. PARSONS: Mr·. Speaker, it 111 1:'! i- o r· :i. s e d n d

is a plea s urE· for s upport 1-.hl'>. MeE!C h

Lake Accord.

SOME HON. MEMBERS : H E:~ a r , I·H:~ a r !

Mf~. PARSONS: I·l- ·is c:~l<; o ;:q plHr·lsur·e for· JTlC"! see, before I spE!ak, the han. I H<·1der· n ·F i · ht-=! Oppo~; "i. t ion dnd rnE~rnbE!r' for· Mount:. Sc:i.o rndke up.

l.: o t. he t. hE•

I

~.]() . 1 7 I~ 86 7

suppose you could say, kiss and make up.

Mr. Spe<:'lker, ·ln 194.9 ~~~e:~ be cam(~ a .province of Canada, and since 19.11.9 great strides have been made in alJ aspects of our environment. I t c e r· t a i. n 1 y i ~> p l r,~ r:1 s i. n g , T t h j , n k , to the majority of N~~IAifOIIndl andc,H's .

R1.1l~ Conf,.~dr,H'a t: ion d i cl no 1·: bring perfection and there have to be chc'lngc~s ·ilnpleul!,~nh·)d ·i·o lfk1!u~ 011r' ~ociety ~ better pJace in.which to live .

J am go·i ng l:o hc'Wf'! i:o q11oh=~ l:hn previous speaker, and I must COIIIpl illll'!l'l'i: him on h·is IH!ry, IJfo!I"Y f·in<:', ar1·:.icu1aLE! speEHh. 'ThoSE!,' h(~ st:~id , 1 1AJho <'H'<:' r:-1g;rinst: i:h<:' M(~C:~ch I ake:~ Accord ar·e frozen in 1". i.IIIE'. I

SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear·, hear!

MR. PARSONS: I look acr·oss and see rl l.ot of hon. gentlemen on that other side who I know personally and who T have a lot of respect for as -j nd~i.v ·i dLIC:il s, l:hr,, i r· pol i.ci E!S, no, but. as individuals, yE!S. I cannot ser:~ for· l:he l. i Fe of rnP, T jlls1-canno t. sr:O!e t.hat l~ hey ca.n get up and spPak agi':l ·insl· r:lvtngr,~s . Thnl. is alJ I.U(.,. <H'B speaking about, chi:-11'191'!5 l:hc'll· g ·'i,upr,; lfiOI"f'! l"(:~spons:i biJ j t.y :in + hr:~ r·:i ght arE"i:lS .

I\Jc~ldfo11ndl and, T ~; uppose beuu1se of o IH' l ate rH>. s s j o i rd 11 g Con fed E! r· at-. ion dnd becdiJsC'• of 't·hr-~ chc:~nges l·hi'·\ ·1· <H·e:~ t..aldng plcl<:e lAior·J.dw:idE•, as f.)CIHlOifl -i CS 9011l:'r'i'l.l·p lfli.IC:h lrlCH'P

enthus ·.iasm, perhaps in 1949 there r::o1 .1l.d hr'lvr~ b<'!E!I'l <'1 bt'!'l-.1 .. er· d~~Rl. Tn Lhis Mr:~ech Lc-JI<e Accord perhaps ·L: h a 1·: s .i. I~ 1 J i:-1 1·. -i on , Ml". SpPdkE!Y'' ··j s addr·essed.

I..B68 Apr··i.l. 15, l9B8 Vol XL

We will go to Quebec as a distinct soci.r:~·l·:y. T. had unt: LJ. rr:~cently

misgivings about anyonE! havj ng any more r:-i.ghl·s l:han anyonE~ else within this family oF co n F (,~ d r-~ r r.1 t ·i o n . R u t . , M r· . S p <-'! a I< e r , 1~1as not Quebec clJ.l.IJays d :istinct br-~cause oF .. i 1-:s language, bE!Causf:• of its culture? It was never enshirnerl ~o this extent. When Quebec stayE!d alAiay from the family si ·l-llal··ion, Uv11·. I~Ji'1S cc-:!r" l-.i'1i.nly a rrd.nus as fal" as Canadoi iHl country l~li:~ s c o n c f:! r n f'! d . To 9 "i u P q u e b e c :i. 1·: s rights to be->. a dist·.inct s ociety, AS Fc:u· i'!~; T i::tlfl concr'!r'nr,'d, only reaffirms what:. was already there Rnrl l·her~ was r:ompRratiuely no change. Certainly there will be rninor chi'1nges, <.~<; l•lf:! f!Xpecl·.: lll "inor changes as it relates Lo Nc':!!Ail=-oundl dnd .

I rnus·i: si:-ly ;:·lgaLn, quol··'inq something that the previous spGc1kf>.r sa.i.d, 'Wr'! a r·e l:r·eatPd differently, specially, even in our educat i onal system, compared to the rest of Canada. Why not, i. f t h ~=! r· H are s p r:~ c -i ;.11. a I" r· a n g e ITW n t s that can be made for other pr•ovinCE!S f s."'y i .. o [::Iri s hon . HousE!, 1.uhy not, if it is going to bf:! bc'!nr:!f·i c i i'll?

~·Jc:! ·i ... d·l k db0111". dppo .i nt!Tien Ls Lo l::hE! Senate which came up. All we hav e i: o do i s l o o k i"t t-. HH:' l as+: S E! nat: or that was appointed. Was it not g r· r,~ rt i· :- o s e '~ '" rni'l n of h i ~; c a J. i. b I" E'

appointed to thE! Senat~:!? HE:~ j s a I~J(H' l d r· f! 1'1 01~11'1 F.! d f ·j g II r• P .

J t~Jas in QuebE:~c dt. cl conf~~l"<'-nce

l c'•\S I· Fc't .ll i'll'ld ·l .. hc'·1 ·i· ~'>E!IVth:ll" 1- odr:'IY, L-llho 1.uas the:~n House L.ead~:·1", spoke 1: o l· h c;! con 'J en i· ·i on . Yo 11 co u ·l cJ hE! a r· a pi.n drop .

AN HON. MEMBER: HE! was respected .

MR. PARSONS:

No. 1'7 1\868

Th0r0 was respect for the man. ~JOIAI ~·hr·o119h I he M~H~ c h I <'lkr'! (lccord, IAij"!-h thee~ PI"OU :·(nCF! hau:jng SOITIEd. h:ing a JJJi'ljor· rol e l·o pli'1'!J <'l !> f,H' dS

Se l'li'l. t.e i-.!ppo:i rl'l' rne nt !> <'..Ire con c E'! r·rwd, 'i S ··i I" l'l 0 t <'1 pI" 0 p 0 ~:; 1· 0 IAI h i'l 1- 0 I I 1" 1 'i_ l'l 0.

of t' h:j nlci.ng j s thc1t 1~1e !;hould sE:~nd

Lhc~ bes 1: lAir:! hi:'1lJ8 I" O l : h(,~ ~)ern'li : r.? I a rn s u In e t h a t IAI (! d t d . WE:~ s ~~ n t. t h e bE:~ !>i': 111e h •HI . T IAri ll n cd: i .. "' kr.'! i'l

s tep backwards on t hat. He is the best I•.IC:~ · have . So, 1~1hy not? ts d· not good, is it not great, Mr.

Spl"a I< CcH'?

On the Si.tpr·e~rn(c~ Court appo Lntrn~Hlts, again, why not? Why not let us have someth Lng l:o say in all c.wr jurisdictions, in all our every d i't y act i vi. t i.E! s? T I 'Hc~ Sup r· e lfle Co 1.1 r l ... :is V(!Y'Y important . Why shou1d t:he dc;!ci. sjons ma dE! by l:hc:! Supr' C'!Irl!=! Court. be,, haridlE•d comple~ ·t.ely by onE! ar·ea of Cr.:1n<.,1di:1? I r,~+- r.~vr'!l"ynnH hr.1lJe

an input into it.

We-! her-.:tr' so much about :it hi:!uJ ng a 111C'!r:lken i"ny i rnr•:1ci~ on i:hn ~; ITIIC l ' llr~)

of C a ni'l d a . Why 1..1d J ] j t ? That :i. s nonsense . lflk! I•JOIIl d hi'll.J 0. •"'~ be -1- +-.r.r etrtd ITICH"~' I"E'•aJ:is'ljc pi"OVoinc ·.iaJ ·i n p u 1- , d ~; h •'ir' r,, d r··i 9 h L 1M i f· h

Ot. ·l awr-..t . What ar·e I•IE:' going t o do? ~){· ... i c k tu··i I h 1 .. hn old I -i br.H' t:'1l

Leader 1 s philosophy, 1 if you do no:- l. i lu:! -; 1: , f 1 1 d d l f! cJ 1 1 dell 0. . 1 T h r:-1 1 ~

is what he would say. He is againsl·. il- . Why should h(~ noL be against it? That ts IAJhat h e said eVE!ryt ·irnc that NE!I~rfoundJ.and IAJanled anything shar'E!d. I can go back. The I e:~adc:!r' of l:.hn Oppos .i I: ·ion laughs . I can go back to IAJhE!n he s poke here at the unJ.uersLty AS t t perte~inE!d to our offs harE!. TherE!

was nothing for us.

A ·1·: 1 E~ as t n ot•J I.• IE~ a r· c,~ :i n L: h ('! p r· o c l' ! s s

of that t:ype of thing bE!ing E!raSE!d

forever in Canada .

Mr. Speaker, T he~dl"

weJJ, peopJe talk

I 8 6 CJ rtpr·i-1 'l~i , 'ICJBH

1-:od•:·1Y, about

i·l s t.hE!

lJo l X I

advantages of t he Ma:inland part o f Ci'tn<'1di'1, of l·hr,~ Onl:i'\1" -io p<:'1r·l- of ··i. l:. , and hotAI hatnd -:i.t i s for our· own p eo p 1 e I· o go 1 1 p HH,~ r· ('! a n d F -L n d jobs. Perhaps since I startE•d ::L n i: h-; <; H ()I Is f~ T i'l<'1ll (,~ C1l1Ak1 y s bE:! E:! 1"1

saying thdt I have had the ex pI'! r i (,~ n r: P. b P r: •:11 1 s 0. t-:'-; 1 .. 1·w r I IJ.J a s

t:.he:~re or sornE!OI1E' bE!1ong to rne Lt.Jas

ti·H:~rP. .

T t~ll:'I1L l:o Oni .. ar· ·io, l'-1r'. SpE:!akE'!r' . LikE! many other NE!IAJfoundlandE:!l"S, I I'Jorkc,,d i.n Ontar· ·i o. I workE!d c.~ny

place I could get a job, but I IAJ"Lsh thr.~l:: IAihE!n 1 J)J(!I'lt to Ontdrio we had a little rnore to say and we IAIB r' E:< "' 1 i 1: 1-'l n rno r E! re s p ('! c b::. d . When we went there, we did n o t hau~:! U<H'Y rnuch money "L n OIJr

pockets. ThE!rE! IAIE:~rE! no l:. housancl ~:;

·involu n d ·HH,'n, it IAJa s hlinclr· c:!d S,

TodAy rny son ~s in OntHr i o IAJorking . HB could not g1=~t: a j o b in NC:•I•Jfottnd1.'1nd i7tnd hro had i:o <Jo

t.o Ont.a rto. ThE!lnE' t s noth:i ng n P IAl

dbou ·l .. -i ' •

MR . EFFORn : I+· doc~~s no'l:. s ay ITil.lch for· you1~

go lJ C::! r· nrnr. n l: .

MF?. PARSONS : It cloE!S say a Jot for' our· gol.JHr'nmpnl:. T 1· sh OIAJ S IAihi'lt: fr'c'! E'dom IAie he~vE• in thi s Cani-lda oF our·s. Jf' shOIAIS, if you Cc:·11'lnnl": cio

something you want to do in the Pr·ov i. riC('! you iH'P. .i. n' it cri ves YOII

t:.he r:i.ght t.o travel to any o Uwr p a r· i-: o f C a n r.~ cl a . t h a lJ ~'! a s o n -I n Hal:i.fax. We11, he wan t ed to go

and he,~ IAJ<:-l S bE!LI':er· equ "L ppE<d l·o d o the j o b that he had t herE! , s o , 1..11 h y nol~ go? OI Jr' gr·;:·1ndf<"'t:hc'•r·s tAlent . .

My granclfathE!r went t:o thE! Ma i. nlr.~nd and went ~ a the States pogy fishing.

I hear so much about hOIAI lAIE! arE! go-i nq 1·. () h;1 k r,~ dl•ldY l·. he~ r··i ~~ h f· s of t.he ct=>.ntrcll govE•rnrnE!nt:. WE! at"E!

1\lo . 1 7 RBG9

going to givE~ more rights to the provinces. [f the provinces hRd more rights, perhaps they would no 1:. hav<"1 l::o go aiAJay, pr"H'hdps t:h<;~re

would be more jobs created here.

w~~ IAJant cls many r·ighi-"s as lllt~ can get. We want r·ights in all fie~ las of <~nd~::1avour· and I agr·~~H w:ith · most aspects of the Meech Lake Accord.

Ljke T said, tAJhE~n I first thought rl b o 1 1 I· I: h r.::~ Q lH~ b ~~ c b i. '1-. , T h r:H:I a j o b to convince myself that Quebec shoul.d hrwr~ r.1 r:lisi:inc:L'i.on, bttl: lhP more T de] ved into it, Mr. Spr~e~!<l~l' , l·hr. Hlor· r"~ T <'lflPI"eciaU~ i:hn fetct that they i-ll r<"~ady had :it.. Thr~y hi~d -j ·I· , Ml" :)pr'~i'·l!u~r·, rHJd ·i I tlta s on l y j tJ s t Cl g eLL n putt :i. n g somr,,l· hino,:) ·in tMril~ ing . Tlvti· -is aJJ. lf Quebec :is strongE~r. 1\JHtlJfoundlAnd is s 1-r-ongnt", I· he oth~~l" pt"ovinc<'~s ar·e str·onger, t·.h<'~r'(:~ -isles~; Abilil· y by l·.hp cenlr-al governmen ·t- to control, and IAih a 1-. ·i S Wr 0119 IAJ'i. i.: h i.'l:?

Mr·. Speak~~r. I t~Jot .tld l .i. kc~ now to go to perhaps thE~ most important ;,~spee1-. oF UH;~ rJJl':H!Ch l _ aJ<c:~ Accor·cl because everyone has a rE~sponsibiliLy i.n this Prov"i.nce lo act to his or her bE~st ability as U: per·tr.li,ns to otJr major· :i.ndtJstr·y.

T Lllf.l.S arnazPd, T t~Ji'l~' dt·nazed, fJ!t' . Speaker, Lt.Jhen J.ast year thE~ LE!ader of Lhc~ Opposi. t-ion t~Jas qtlol·nd c:ls si'lying t.hat lllt~ should not h<'lVE~ any 1110re jtJriscl'i.cl:ion 1-.hdn t.•Jf'! hr'llJP. Rl· I hj s pr·psen'L l::i rnt?. I know members on I h"' I· s "i de o i- I he H o 1 1 s c , t e>Hl look at ·lhern, T r.att sc->.e thc:d r· fr'lC0S ;~nd knot~J l:h.-~1- ·l·.h,'li i·; nol 1~1ha-l. I hey b~~J -.i evE!. T t"ead I: hat j n j-- h (~ Pi'q:) r. Y' . r h r:·l I· I~U'\ s l '~ s 1: y f~ c'H' '

before he carne inlo the House, beforP. he tlJr'tS elected. Not•J, l·lvd-. :is not 1~1hat T am saying. Look, I hr.tv c,~ I'. he de:!r;! p1,1s 1: rr~spoc:l-. for· the hon. member For· TLt.d.ll j ngatE!. I do! T dtn like !:he r·p s 1·: of 1-. h P.

I 870 ApriJ. 15, 1988 Vol XL

membe~rs in the House, I think hE! .. i s t' N:'tll y a g r· a s s r· o o 1·: s p o 1. :i t i c t a n , a good politician.

With the Speaker 1 s perrni s s j _on, I am go-ing l~o rei.'ld from a resolu ~. ion--

MR. SIMMS: Pr:!rh<.-lps the hon. mc,~rnbc;!tn could adjourn the dE~ batE! f or today, re~Hl!'~r U1dn come:~ up t•Ji.U1 anyULing heavy. I do ~ave ~ couple of tnat h:1r's T 11JOttlrl like Lo d~:~<'tl. t~ri l.:h, jf the hon. member would not mind.

MR. PARSONS : Mt'. Sp!:'r:~ker·, r lliOIJ -Id adjourn the debette .

SOME HON. MEMBFRS : 1-1 :~a r . h r-1 d r· !

MR. SPEAKER : The debate is adjourned hon . U1r:> JrtPrnl:)r;~r· Fen· :31- . East ExtE~rn .

MR. SIMMS:

1.-i.ke ·i·o

by LhE! John 1 s

Thf:~ hon . l"hH President of the Counci1.

MR. SIMMS : i'-1r·. Spea!<c:~r, T l:.i·huJk UH'~ hon. rnernbE~r for agre~eing l:.o conc1udE! a l i l: L 1 P b -j +- E:1 a,~ l y ~; o L h i:·t L IAH~ co u 1 cl deal lAd.th a couplE! of rnat:LE!rS oF liOIISE! b1 .1~; i.nE~~;s.

Tn p<H'i:·iculrH', T tAJOttld l -ikC:1 l:.o noiJ.I, w:i.t:h l::hE~ concurt"E~ncE~ of t.l'w Oppo~; "i, -1:-i on, ntotH:! <:1 mo l . .i.on 1·:ha+: tAJoul d form thE! make---up of l:he 11E'lAJ Ptiblic: nc:cottnls Connnit-i·r:~~:.. ThtC> hon. members have spoken to me ,··lbottl · '" chr'lngc llllrich !:hey lllish t:·.o rnakt:', and lAJe, too, on t.his :delE·, l~Jr:Hll·r~d i·o tll<·lke i'·l couplr.:! oF additional changes, . as IJ.Ie1J.

I will se1y, by l::hE! l.l.lay, ev·pn Lhottgh ·l· h1,1 rnc-:~mb<'!Y'S o·F l.:hc'! NDP ar'E~

not: here, that thE~ LE•Clder of thE~

P<'lrl:y d-id ~;peak l·o tnr:1 r:1bout LhEdr

No. 17 R870

pi'n· ·l':.i. c.i.pr.~t: ·ion or· i'tppoinl··men ·l· on l'he Public Account:.s Cornndtt.eE!. I i:o l d h i tfl t~Jr,~ tAJOI.Il d g -j \J P i I·

cons·.) del"at:i.on . Wr:1 have given j t cons i dHri'l·t--i on, f.'lnd ''Je do no 1·. ·Feel it is Mppropri~te at this time.

l would like to moue the following motion, bu+:, F-iTsl- of· <·111, jLts·l: i·o

the preamble. The Official Opposi Lion 1~1oul d 1 ike l·o rr:!p.l ~r:r: ·t hP mc-nnber For· R10~1J eutJe (Mr.

Call i:trl), t•Jho l'lOIAJ, of course, .. is not a mt:~rnbE•r of the Oppos:l t.:i.on btJt a rntnnb~-:1r of l::hc:1 gouer·nmenl: , tdH·h thE! m10~mbE!r' for . Naskaup:l (Mr. Kelland). T Ltndr,H'stand 1-.:hi:d: -is correct.

SOM~ HON. MEMBERS: Heat", hE!ar·!

MR. SIMr"'S: WE!, on this s:idE!, tAIOUld likE! Lo r· e pl. a c <:1 t h 1.'~ mE! 1 n b l'' r· f o r· H u rnb c:! r· UalJ E!Y (Mr. Woodford) tAli th the rnEHnbr,1r' for· Rl,11l.evue.

SOME HON . MFMBERS : Hl'l.ar, hear!

MR. STMMS: The->. oUtEH' change tAle tAJOuld 1i.ke .to IJli'l. k C , lA)(.) IAIO ttl d 1 -j k f~ 1:0 r· (,1 p 1 ,-., ( r,, ·[-h (! ntEHuber· fol" Humb10~r WE:!s'l: (Mr·. 8<'1-ird), t•Jho h<'l'> bt'!l'!l'l c'l

long .. ser·v".i ng TTlE!tnbtH' of the Publ:i. c A r: r:ou n 1-. s Cotrnn-i I'" I· ne, 1·· I·H:! 1 ongE!S t· ,

et!> a rnattc·H' of fact, and tAJho s e r· tJ r~d t~Jf:' 1.1 , 1~ri I· h 1·: IH' tnEwrbe r f u t~ St. John's East Extern (Mr.

Pi'lrsons).

SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear!

MR . S:tMMS: So, the s ·i.mplt1 t.•.Jay l:.o do i.t now, having explainE•d eUE!ryth:ing, tAJould be l·o move tho rnoti.on ,,,; l:h i'~l.l

these ClS well as the othe!rs. I will. rnentlon fflll the n~rnes and the!n, .as I und101r·stand it., thE!

I B 71 A p r· ·i 1 1 r; , 'I 9 H B Vol X I

Commi-1-:i:P.P. their·

,,,-i_ 'll lflf'! n I· Chairman

and and

lJi r:t'! Chi'1 "i rtnr.tn in d11c~ cotH'Sfo! .

choOSC'! 'LhE~o:it"

::>o, IIH! rrr.:~ke - up o·r 'l:he Pt .tbl :ic Accounts Committee would be as Follot4)!), Mr'. Spt,'i'I!U1r', and r IT)()l)f'!

that the make-up of the Public Accottnl-s Cotnrn·i l:i·ec,' l:w cts follot•JS:

Th0. hon . tllelni:H:!r' for· Sl:. John'~:

North; the hon. the member for Se-llnvttf'•; l:hH hon. l·:h::! Trlt'!TTlbl,!Y' fo1n St. John's Eas L ExtE!rn; thE! hon . 'l".he tnt:1rnbr:!r For· Lr.~Poi. lP, llJho :.i.s on Her Majesty's Service, I think; thr,1 hon. thc,1 rnerr~b(;!r' For· Gander·; the han. the member for St . Barbe; and t.h(~ hon. thE! rnerrtb\?.r for Nas l<cwpi..

I so moue the moti.on, Mr. Speaker .

MR. TULK : Mr . Speaker .

MR . SPEAKfR : The hon. the member for Fogo .

MR. TULK: ---·-·--·---:ram no ·l- exacl':Jy su1~e on -l:h:is, but. pPr'hdps Lhc r;ot!fo!t"ntnc'!l'll· l·lott :;o l...ec-.1der· might check w:ith the Cler· l<s and look ,,.,,: ·i·hc-:! t"ngt.tldl·ion!> Lh.:'tl.: govern the Public Accounts Connnil·l:ec, br,~cdtJSf:! l br:·l. ·iet;n i'".hi'1i :

t h e o n 1 y E! 1 E! c t i. o n t h a t oi ~:

n r~ c e s s "' r· 'J <·1 i.. t-. h ··i s 1·. i 1 n e , a c c o r· d "i n q Lo t.ht~ r·eguJ.r.1tions, ·is tlte f:~ 1 t :~ c l: i on of Vi c e ·- C h a i_r· rna n , tAl h t c h tJ.Jas held by thE! rnernber for HurrtbE!r 11\l!·~s ·l"., J bPl.-i.!,1~!r'!. ACCOl"di.ng i.:o l::hE• regulations, the Chairman is still t.:he o-ff i c i.al ChFI i.r·man. I think what we are looking at is an el.r:1c~.-:ion for Ui. ce -Chd-i.r·tniHl 1-.o refJlace thE! rnernbe!r for HumbE!r

West. t think thdt is correct.

MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker .

MR. SPEAKER:

1\Jo. ·17 1~8 71

ThE! hon. the-?. President of the Counc:i.l.

MR. SIMMS: Well, I 11Ji ll. have l:o check l:hi'\~ .. I understand that may have been 1·: he p r· a c t ·i. c e . I d o no t: k n ow ·i, f there is a regulation that says it or anyth:i.ng, so "i.l:: may hc.·WL"! bc~!en

the pr·actice.

If hon. members would permit, we ar'E! not anx..i ous f·.o movr,~ f·.hr,~

Cha:i l"man. We have no inte!nt:ion of ta!< i ng f··.he the member· ! .. haL. Noi: flC:H'haps WC:1

Connn it i·. e r=~ .

11-H?. TUJ.K :

Chi'\ i r·1nansh ·i p for Gander.

Fl 1: could

!:his leave

<:u~J c'l y f r· om None of

1.: ·i. we . j t f·:o

So the

Y o u tlri l J n o ·f h a u E! E:! n o u g h t o f o r· rn a C OITIIfl"i 1: l · pr~ .

MR. ST.r"'M~3 : Yes. WeJJ, T apprec:iate the adu-i ce of thr·) lrlf'!Hibr.11" for· fogo lllho has tr·~'rnendous exper·iencE~ in these pr·ocr~di .IY'i.~l rnal·:t(~rs. :r appr'C'!C i ;:., i·.F.! h:is advice and guidance.

D i.d Your Honour· put: HlLo' mol: i.on?

MR. SPFAKFR: We have a motion.

All. those 'i.n fauottr of · j t s adoption pleasE! say. 1 aye 1

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPFAKFR: ThosE! ;~g<.·dnsl:, 1 tl<'~Y 1 •

C<H'r i fo'd.

MR. SIMr"'S: Ml". SpE'f-Lker, Ftgr·r,'e f·o s f·op

perhaps l~hL~! clock .

lAJe could

MR. SPEAKFR: Tt is agreed to stop the clock.

L8'77. A p r· .i 1 :1 5 , · 1. 9 8 8 Vol X I .

SOME HON. MEMBERS: A 9t'(!E!d.

MR. SIMMS: T jusl: v.Jant l:.o g:i. u~1 m(>.mbr'!Y'S next week 1 s sche!dulE! as l.liE:~ haue it up unt ·i. l. l'lOI.lJ for l~hr=! Esf .. ·.:i.IT!al:r:~s

Committees.

On Monday, April 18, at the m ''~ e t "i. n g ~H:! l d ·i n t I·H~ m o I" n i . n g , 9 : 3 0 a.m - there is only one meeting on Mond<'lY - l:hr,1 · Soc:i al Fs l:. i. rnat:es Committee will deal with the f'! S I· i ITI<'I 1-. r,~ s 0 f I·· h n Department of Career Development and Advanced Sl·udi. f:!s. •

On TIIP.Sdc'ly, HH-~ lf!OI"n ·i ng !TIP(,~ l:: i ng ;:-d.: 9:30 a.m., the RE:~sourCE! E~;ti.rnat·c,=•s

CoHunil:1- er:~ ,.,·ill c onclllrlo l· h~'>

estimates of the Departmen t of ,..., .. i n c ~; i h 1,~ y t·.l·l"i n k p L-:! r· h r:·l p s f o i" d

hdlf hour· Ol" so ·- and !:.hen, r'l p p r· 0 X i 11'1 ;:~ f· C! l y c:1 I· ·1 () : () () d . 1 fl .

Tuesday morning, the Resource Fst ·i!Tir'\'i':f:!S Corrnnit:l :ero' IAJ'ill d(~c1l IAJi.l :h the E!Stimatc~!s of the DE•partmE!nt. of Fol"P.s+:r·y.

AN HON. MEMBER : T hauH De vnlopmE!nt and Tour:L s m dot..o.m.

MR. SIMMS : No. I understand this has been l..o.Jo r· k L'! d o 11 l: . I 1:: h L n k 1:. h l'! M"i. n i s t: (,~ r

of Development is not available on TIH~SdclY 1'101,), So ·j t. -j s rJt :ines

first, to concJ.ude, th~=!n Fot"E•sLr·y r:1t appr·ox ·Lmdt-.r~ly 10:00 a.m.

Tuesday night, t:he GoVE!rnment: ~1r~rtJic;r,~s Fsi: ··ilni'ti·L~''' CormrJ-if·:t··c:!L·) IAJ'i. .ll. dec1J t.o~.dth l:he E!St.oimr.d:.E!S of t-.hE! Dt.!f>dl"Unnnl ·. of lr~lbOIIr' o:'d 7: :l o p.m. No mE=!Ed·oing WedrH•sday morning , oF co 1 tr' s P. , i n k e r,1 pi n g l•d. I· h o u r·

Pl"acU ce, and the Soc:i al Ser· v:i.CE!S F s l: -j lflr:1 ·t·: r~ '; C Oilllll·i +· i ·. r~ e on WednE~sday n:i.ght. at 7:30 p.rn., de r:~ l ,,Ji Hl ' i : h F.! F s 1·. i rnc.~ , .. F! s 0 f Department. of Environment

No . 17

next l.lli.J 1

the and

RH7?

Lands .

1 drn adui.sed by t.hc,~ Cha.i.r·mc'ln thd ·l~

we should leave it at that fo r now be->. cause,~ t)JC:~ ar·e not q1.1 i. 1-e SIJr'r,~ if any of th£~se departments t.uould be c<:u-r-i F.!d out-:•r. So, hopr;d::-1111 y Monday, c:er·tai nJ y Tuesday by the lr·11·: c,~si:, 1110. 11J'i.ll h<~lJf.! l:he Tl'll.lt'Sdi'ly ~chedu]e and that should be r.1ccc,~ptetbl e 1-:o r.~ll hon . members .

llll·i l·.h r•c,~spec 1·: l·.o l·:l'w Cormn i 1:1-,:!f~ l- hdi:

1~1as no1. abJc->. to s:it l.ast night, Ult~ 0.sl:.i.mal:r:'S lasl: night i:h;'l i': 1-hc-:!y 1~1erc:~ not" abJ c:~ to continue b~'causE•

of l:h~\ potAJE!r ot.Jtagr,~, 11JC~ hi.·1Uio~ c:-1sl<f~d

the Committee Chairman to b r ing it r o U1 e a 1:: t E! n i~ i on of t he Co mrrri. ~: t e e at their next meeting for CJ-iSCIJSS·ion l·o SC''E! lAJhi'lt l.o~Ji~Y l.:h~'Y

wish to work that particular rna t i::E!r' ou 1·: .

May I al.so adu'isP hon. rrJE!Irli:HH'S that next IAWE!k in the House, which ITIC:!mber·s IAJoul.d 1 ·i kc::! l:o b~~ atAJar·r,~ of and particularly Cabinet mini. st.fH's, I am s1.1re t.hi.·11-: HH:~IJ

would want to be aware of this l·:oo I r"'onday and TI.IC:~Sclc:~y IIJ('! IAJi '11 cont:i.nUE! tAri th l:he Budget: debate. WndnP.sdr:·1 1J, or course, t~JC-~ 11dll c:ortt-:i.nue debcli..-.-i ng t·he Priuat.e Mr'!lllbHr'' s I~Psolll·l·-i.on pu 1- for't"J'u·rl by ·rhe rnernbE=~r· fot" Humber· VaJ J c:>.y. llllh ·ilr:! [ i'IHl noi: s,:~y ·iJ·Jg i·11'l':JI·hi.ng etbso]utr:?. a+ ·t-- his t : i . rn~~' T IAJanl·. t.o, pr'!r'hr.1ps,_ pttl~ pr~ople nn nol .. icr,~ 1--hc:~l:

tlE!X t. Thursday and Fr-iday, because l;JC~ hi'IUE! ber:!n OpC:'I'l l'lOIIJ for• c'1 ff'!I!J 1/J~H~ks, T t~Jould l:i.ke to mou~~ ·.i nto ~; o 1 n f:' l r,, g -i_ s l a I· -i o n . 1,11) r,' lfli'-1 y j u s ~~

hoJd Meech L.ake for further debate l .ahH' on, but I.~Je trk1Y mouH i.nt·o some legislat'ion and thE! appr·oach that I cAJoti l d Li k e t-:o 'ti:'l k o .. is we would like to foJlo~ -the Order Paper· _: IAJE~ l.•.l"i.l. l f o J.l. OIAJ HH~ Or·d ~H' Paper - as c] osely as we can. The f ·irs t onE~ I.•.JE:~ tAli. ·11. beg -i_ n wJ i ... h i s thE! Act. ·to Arnend The REnrtE!rnbrancE! D r'l y Ac-t· , T g uPs s , i f IAJE! g E'! t . ·-j_ n to

L873 Apr· 'i l 15, 1.988 VoJ. XL

that .

And finally, Mr . Sp~~akE!r', befoi"E! I moue adjournment I want -

MR. TUL.K: YO II k l'lOI!J Speaker is ·I·· h !':! C h ,'l ·i. r· .

Ml~. STMMS :

l· hR-1- r· .. i.ght. suppoSE!d to

l'lOI~J i:hE:! haue J.E•ft.

ThE!r'e tAJas a reqUE!S t: and it tAJcl s ,:•1 9 ]'' 0 (:~ d -:: () under·st:and . Spr:'''l k er?

MR. SPEAKER : Yes.

MR. SIMMS :

si-op l"hP Was :it:

Of cotH'se, :i r. tAJas .

MR . SPEAKER:

clock, not,

T Ml".

The clock has been stopped .

MR. SIMMS: YE!S . Mr. Spc-~i.·1kHr', b~:!fOr'l::! mou ·:i.rrq the adjournment I would like to 'i:t'lkH 1-:hi s oppo;ntuni.l · y l~o wi.sh the Leader of thE! Oppod.U.on, in p ;:~ r l ·i c IJ l. i:'l r· , d u r'! I" y p l e "' s "' n L tAJeek end. Everybody PlSE!, too, but: p<·1rl · icttldrly HJC:' lc~adc:•r' oF !::he Opposition. I understand the I f~ <:HI r:! l" n f I he 0 p p o s ·i 1- i n n tAri '1 1 l:l1-:.

down on the Sou ·l:h Coast. sornE!t;.iiiE!Y'E' ·l·· iri s 1~11-) r:! k r'! nd T i::ltfl 1:: old "i n Marys l:.otAm and Cra nd Bank ,_ t.o r:-1H ·end d ·irnlt'!rs, c:-1nd T Ft.tr·LI·H'!r' understand that thE! I. tbE•ra] s dotAJn "i 1'1 1·hai-_ c'H't:'•;1 hd\JC'' bf:!l·'!l'l g·j U j 1'19 i-li .~Jay

free tickets in order to atl::ract a big a ·l" l · c:!nd<•ncr,~ l· o t:hosp funct. ions.

SOME HON. MFMBERS: Hear, hE!ar·!

MR. SIMMS: T -1: ln l.l s [- h f~ I;.J ·i. :1 l. h a l) ~:! (,1 p 1 ('! a s i~l 11 t

lAJeekend, anytJJay.

I moue that this House adjourn LIJ'lL--i.l. l~ornorr·ot•J, l'-1ondc:1 y, Apr·:i. l 18,

No. 17 R873

r-

52:

)l;

'"'

:::;:

·....-

co

-...]

-;

-0.

.. """

0

-D

.p.

L' .

=:

co

UJ

0 :::

; !.1

co

;:::

: 0

('j)

'"' )

~

·....-

·8 :

::l

Q_

:21

-·-ro

·~

0

D

"'0

0..

:::;

"tJ

:::: ~

) 3

;::::

0

~-

E G

:::

; ..

'"""'

~

·J

;T

i-'·

·:D

ilJ

0..

\}'1

__.

LJ.

-o

:::!:

0 ·~

rt"

;::::

3 ;-

<

-)

0 tf

;

<,{)

:::::

! ;!

. :::;

co

0 O

J )

::<;

~

-)

~:-

,...,

0 E

:1

""'"

" c

(f)

~

0 ::5

: "7

f-1

0 )

::l

,-J.

0..

(/)

-:

-X

ilJ

:--

!· ~

I '<

:::

; ..

.!.

i.O

'.f)

2 0 .......

-...]

en c: 0

•.-i co

+J

co l1

(11 Q

) r-4

>< ;j

"Cl Q

) 0

' Q

)

'0

...-1 Ll"l

c: 0

,c

r-4

H

+J

cO +

J ...-1

en ·n

"" ""

Q)

~

s en c: <

·'

~

•

~ < o n - t 1 !J s < sf -QUESTIONS FROM THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, March 15, 1988 /lidS~ ~-,

.. ,. - - ....... I

QUESTION NO. 47

Mr. Furey (St. Barbe) - To ask the Honourable the Minister

of Consumer Affairs and Communications to lay upon the Table

of the House the following information:

(a) How many persons do you have on your ministerial

staff?

(b) How many of these persons were appointed by

Order-in-Council?

(c) Each title and salary applied to that title.

(d) A job description for each Order-in-Council

appointment.

(e)· Were any of th~se jobs advertised in orde~ to give the

unemployed the chance of applying?

ANSWER

(a) Three - Secretary; Special Assistant; Press Secretary.

(b) Secretary: Permanent Public Servant

Special Assistant and Press Secretary: Order-in­

Council.

(c) Secretary to Honourable Minister Salary: HL 12 Salary Level

Special Assistant to Honourable Minister

Salary: SA 02 Salary Level

Press Secretary to Honourable Minister

Salary: SA 01 Salary Level

(d) Please see attached.

(e) Secretary - Permanent Public Servant

Special Assistant - Job filled in accordance with

Public Service regulations. Press Secretary - Job filled in accordance with Public

Service regulations.

•

PRESS SECRETARY

The Press Secretary is a special ass~stant to the

.Minister, responsible for public relations and media

liaison and a member of the Minister's staff.

Some of the duties include: research and writing of

speeches, writing of news releases, monitoring· the

media for stories relevant to the DepartmeLt and the

Minister, ministerial advertisj~g, arranging and

conducting news con:fert~nces .

The Press Secretary arranges media requests for

interviews with the Minister or other departmental

officials and f~lly briefs the Minister and Senior

Officials on all direct contacts made by the media

with the Department.

Any information emina.ting from the department

for public consumption is co-ordinated through the

Press Secretary's office, ultimately flowing

through the Minister's office . as well as the appropriate

senior management personnel.

1988 03 25

' · ,,

I I

DUTIES OF SPECIAL ASSISTANT - -~

I Carries out regular duties assoGiated with the

. l

I

position similar to the Special Assistants of other I . Ministers and the Leader of the Opposition .

•

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOURTH SESSION, FORTIETH GENERAL ASSEMBLY

PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND:

Hon. P.J.McNicholas .... .. ....... . .. . . . . . ....... . . . . Speaker

Mr. Glenn Greening ......... . ................ Deputy Speaker

Chair-man of Committees

Mr. Kevin Parsons . .... . . .. . .. Deputy Chair-man of Committees

MEMBERS

NAME AFFILIATION DISTRICT Mr . K.Alyward ............ J.ib ... ... ... ....... . . Stephenville

Mr . R.Alyward .. . . ... ... . . PC .... .................... Kilbr-ide

Mr. Baird . ....... ....... . PC ... . ....... . .. : ...... Humber West

Mr . Baker . . .. . . .... . ..... Lib . . .. ......... ............ Gander

Mr. Barrett ... ........... PC . .. . ...... . ...... St. John's West

Mr. Barry ..... . . . ........ I.ib ......... Mount Scio-Bell Island

Mr. Blanchard ... : . . . . .... PC ........ .... ...... Bay of Islands

Mr . Brett .... . . ....... .. . PC ........ .... ....... Trinity North

Mr . . Butt ..... . . ..... . . . . . PC ........ .... Conception Bay South

Mr . Callan ... . . ... . . . ... . Lib ....... . .. . ............ Bellevue

Mr . J. Carter .. .. ........ PC ........ .... .... st. John's North Mr. W. Carter ............ Lib .......... .. ........ Twillingate

Dr. Collins ..... .. . .. . ... PC . .. . . .... . ...... St. John's South

Mr . Dawe ...... . . . . .. . .... PC ..... ........ . ..... . St. George's

Mr . Decker .... .. ......... I.ib ........... Strait of Belle Isle Mr. Dinn .. . .............. PC . ... . . . ......... ... Pleasantville

Mr. Doyle ........ . ....... PC ..... . ... ....... . .. . Harbour Main Mr. Efford .· .. ...... .. .... Lib ........... .. ..... Port de Grave

Mr . Fenwick ...... . ... ... . NDP ........................ Menihek

Mr. Furey .. .. . . . ... .. ... . J.ib ... .... . ... . ... . . .. ... St . Barbe Mr . Gilbert. ......... .. . . Lib ............ Burgee-Bay d • Espoir

Mr. Greening ......... ... . PC ...................... Terra Nova

Mr . Gullage .......... ... . Lib ............. Waterford-Kenmount

Mr . Hearn .. . . ....... . .... PC ............ st. Mary's-The Capes

Mr . Hiscock .... . ......... Lib .................. . . Eagle River

Mr . Hodder . ... . ..... .. . .. PC .... . ...... . ........ Port au Port

Mr . Kelland . . ........... . I.ib .... . . .. .. . .. _ .......... Nascopie

Mr . Long ...... . ........ . . NDP ........ . ....... st. John's East

Mr . Lush ......... . ...... . Lib ........ . ....... Bonavista North

Mr . Matthews .. .... . ...... PC ... . . ..... ............ Grand Bank

Dr . McNicholas .......... . PC ... . . . ... . ..... St. John's Centre

Mr . Mitchell. . . .......... PC .. . ....... ............... LaPoile

Mr. Morgan .. ............. PC ... .. . . ... ....... Bonavista South

Mr . Parsons . ............. PC . . ... . . ... St. John's East Extern

Mr. Patterson ............ PC . . . ... : ... . . . .... . .... . Placentia Mr. Peach ........ . ...... . PC . ..... .. .... . .•.... : .. . Carbonear

[CONTINUED]

[CONTINUED]

Premier Peckford ......... PC .. ... .... . . .... . .. ..... Green Bay Mr. Power ................ PC ..... .. . . ........ . . . .. . Ferryland Mr. Reid .. . .............. PC ............ Trinity-Bay de Verde Mr. Rideout .. .. . ... ... . . . PC . . .. . . ... . . . Baie Verte-White Bay Mr. Russell .............. PC ...................... Lewisporte Hon. Mr. Simmons .... . .... Lib ... . .......... Fortune-Hermitage Mr. Simms . . .. . .......... . PC ............. . ....... Grand Falls Mr. Tobin . . . . ... . ..... .. . PC . ..... ...... Burin-Placentia West Mr. Tulk ................ . Lib ....... . ................... Fogo Dr. Twomey ............... PC ..... · ........... .. .... ... Exploits Ms. Verge .. ............. . PC .... .. .... . . . .. .. .. .. Humber East Mr. warren .. . . . ..... . .... PC ............... Torngat Mountains Mr. Wells . ....... . ....... Lib ................ Windsor-Buchans Mr. Windsor ...... . ....... PC . . .. .. .... . . ...... . . . Mount Pearl Mr. Woodford ............. PC ................... Humber Valley Mr. Young ........ : . ...... PC .. . ........ ........ Harbour Grace

THE MINISTRY:

Premier A. Brian Peckford .. . .. ... . ....... . .... .. . . . . . Energy Mr. R. Alyward ... . ....... ... ............... Forest Resources Mr. Barrett ............... . ..... . ... Development and Tourism Hr. Blanchard ............ . . .. .......... .. . .. .... . .... Labour Mr . Brett.,, .............. . . .. ............ Municipal Affairs Mr . Butt ......... . ........ . . .. Culture, Recreation and Youth Dr . Collins .. . ... . .... . . . .... . ... . Health and Deputy Premier Mr. Dawe ................. .. . .. .... Intergovernrnental Affairs Mr. Dinn .. . . . . ... .. . .. .. . ....... . . . . ..... ............. Mines Mr . Doyle . ... ... . .. . . ... . ... ...... .... . . , . ... Transportation Mr . Katthews . . ...... Career Development and Advanced Studies Mr. Peach .... . .......... . .. Minister Responsible for Housing Mr . Power ...... Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development Mr . Rideout .... . . . . .. ... ......... ..... . ... ...... .. Fisheries Mr . Russell. .. ..... . .. ................ Environment and Lands Mr . Simms ...... . .. . .. .. . . President of the Executive Council

President of Treasury Board Government House Leader

Mr . Tobin . . ........ . ..... . . . .. . ............. Social Services Dr. Twomey ....... . . ........ .... . .. Publi~ Works and Services Ms. Verge .............. . ......... .. ................. Justice Mr. Warren .... Minister Responsible for Northern Development Mr. Windsor ................... . .. . . . ................ Finance

Minister Responsible for Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro Mr. Young ............... Consumer Affairs and Communications

CONTENTS

Friday, April 15, 1988.

Statement by Ministers

New Reg~strar of Motor Vehicles Appointed : Mr. Doyle ........ . ..... . .... . ....... .. . .. . . . .. ... ....... 817

Mr. Gilbert . . ........ ... . .. . .. . .............. . .......... . 81.7 Mr . Fe nllo.d. c k .. . . . ... .. .. . ... .... .. . .. ... . ... . ... ... .... · .. 818

P r· o p c r Dr e s s in t he H o u :; e , Poi. n t o F 0 r de r . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 1 8

Power Outage Update: Mr. Windsor ... . . . ..... . . .. ... ... ... . . . . ........ ... . ... . . 819 Mr. Wells . ... .. ... ...... . ... .. . ....... ...... . . . . . .. . ... 8?.0

Private Sector Employment Programme Update : Mr . Simms, on behal f of Mr . Matthews ...... . .. , .. . ....... 821

Mr. Decker ........ . ... .. .. . .. ... . .. . . . . ... . ... .... : ...... 822 Mr. F~~rHAd. ck ....... .. ... . ... . .. .... .. .... .. .............. 823

Oral Questions

lJ n E:1 mJ?.l o .Y_f!l_e n t : House Royal Commission report and contention the official unemployment rate in Newfoundland does not truly reflect the unemployment rate. Mr. ~~el.ls, Mr. Windsor .......... . ............. .......... 824-

Equalization entitlemen{ and the Minister 1 s claim about the unemployment rate . Mr . Wells, Mr. Windsor .......... . .......... ... ........... . . . . . .. .. . 825 AllegE!S unE:1mployuiE:1nt. rate IJJil.l not. be r·educed until Minister realizes it stands at 18 per cent. Mr. Wells, Mr. Windsor . .... ..... . .... ...... .. . 826

Mj nj ng: Changes in federal mining tax incentives. Mr . Si.mmons, Mr. Di.nn .. .. .. ..... . . . .. . ... .... ... ... ..... 826 AJJeges contradictory statements about floiAJ t.h1nough. Mr . Si rnmons, Mr. Dinn ...... ..... .. ... . .... 82'7 ~mpact of changes in the earned depletion allowance on projected investment in E:1Xploration. Mr . Simmons, Mr. Dinn ........ : . ............ 829

Education: Why two formulae for financing school bus ~ransportation. Mr. Decker, Mr. Hearn. Order boards to use the most efficient

.. ..... . 831

means t:o bus children. Mr. DE!Ckt::H', Mr. He;u·n . .......... :832

When will discrepancies be removed. Mr. DeckEH', Mr. Hc,1an1. ...................... .. . . .. . .... . 832

Health: Nursing shortage. Mr. Fenwick, Dr. Coll.i.'ns ................................ ...... , .... . . 833

Al]eges no effective measurement. t.o assess nurs ·i.ng jobs r:'ldc~qual":el.y. Mr·. fenwick. r>r. CoJlins ............ . . . . .... ........... ... ...... . .... 834 ~ll":1.1dy i.n1:f,1r-irn r0.port· rc-:>comrnP.ndai:·ion~; to

aJ]eviate nursing shortage. Mr. Fenwick, Dr . Coll ·ins ....

Presenting Reports

. .... ..... . .. . 8:14

by Standing and Special Committees

Tablir1g of The Newfoundland Gazette. Ms lJerge .... . .. .. . . . . . . . ..... . . .. .... .. .. . .. ... .... . . . 835

HousJng Corporation reports for 1985-86, 1986-87 . Mr· . P E! a c h . ........ . .... ..... .. ... .. ..... .... ....... . ... 8 3 6

Public Tendering Act Exceptions for March, 1988 . Dr . TIJ.JOH1l':11J ... . ................... · ......... _ ...... ...... . 8 3 6

Notices of Motion

An Act Respect..i ng The PtJb.l i c U.brary SE!rv"i.ce Mr. Butt .................................... .. ... . .. .... 836

An Act To Amend Thc,1 (ll cohol and Dr'l.lg

Dependency Commission Act and An Act To Amend Th:~ Nc,11~;foun(~land Mt1d ·i . cc.~l Cc:lr'E! Inst.lr'ancP Act

r>r. CoJ]ins ................... . ........ ... . .' .. . . . . ..... . 836

Petitions

Transporta1: ion, road conditions : M_r· . [) e c I< ~>. r· . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 3 6

Mr·. Ffford . .... . .... ... .. . . ........ . .................... 838

Mr· . Doyle .. . ... . . .... . ......... . . . . ...... . .......... ... . 840

.~Ali!

• Transportation, road condi t ion s : Mr . Sj rnrnon s ... . . . ... . . . .. . . .. . .... . . . · .... ... . . .. .... . . . . 841 Mr _ Mo rgan . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . .. .. . . . . .. . ... .. . . . . .. . 843

Pet :i t :i.on ruled Out of Order, continued by leave . .. .. .... 844

Mr. Well. s . . . . . . . . . . .. .. . .. .. .. .... .. . .. .. ... . . . . . .. ... . 8 46 Mr . Ooyle, by leave . . .. . . ... . . .. .... . ... , . . ......... . . . . 847

Orders of the Day

FLrst Readings: Bill Nos. 32, 33, 30 .. .. .... .. ... .... . ... : .. ....... .... . .. 8lJ-9

Motion 3, the Me e ch Lak e Accord : Mr. Morgan . . . . . . . . . . .. . . .. · .... . . ...... . ... . .. .. .. . .. .. . . . 849 Mr . Bar·ry . . . . ... .. .. . . .. . . . . .... . .. .. .. . . . . .. . ... . . . .... 8 5 '7

Mr . Parsons, adjourns d e bate . .. ... . .. . .. .. . . . .... . . . .. . . 867

Mot.i.on t~ o ame nd Comm.i. I~ te e rn e rnb l':! r s hi.-p .. . . . . .. . .. . . ..... . . 8 7 2

Adjournment Mot: ion ... . . . .... .. . .. . . . . . ......... .. . .. . . . . 8 7 4