transcript of “288 with mark hyman” - the bulletproof blog · bulletproof radio podcast #288,...

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Transcript of “288 with Mark Hyman”

Bulletproof Radio podcast #288

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #288, Mark Hyman

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Speaker1: BulletproofRadio.Astageofhighperformance.

Dave: Hey,it'sDaveAspreyofBulletproofRadio.Today'scoolfactofthedayisaboutArrowroot.

Arrowrootisaneasilydigestedandkindofnutritiousstarchandit'susedasathickenerincooking.Whatyoudon'tknowaboutthestuffisthatit'scalled"Arrowroot"becauseitistheantidoteforpoisonedarrows.Thisisactuallytrue,I'mnot-

Mark: Lookatthat.

Dave: Thismeansifyouevergetshotbyapoisonedarrow,youdefinitelydon'twanttogotothedoctor,youshouldjusteatsomekindofprocessedfoodwiththickeninggunkinit.Okay,maybenot.

Mark: Likelihood,ifyou'regettingshotbyapoisonedarrow,you'reintheAmazonandtherearenodoctorsaround.

Dave: There'switchdoctors,Mark.Hey,it'sDaveAsprey.Beforewegettotoday'sepisode,let'stalkalittlebitaboutTing.Ting'sakickasscompanyworkingtodisruptareallybrokenmobileindustrywhereconsumersdon'thavechoice,freedomortransparencyfromthebigcorporateplayers.Yourphoneisapowerfultouseinperformancehackingandyoushouldn'tberestrictedbyacontractorhavetochoosefromalonglistofdauntingphoneplans,especiallyaroundtheholidays.Wouldn'titbesimplertojustpayforwhatyouuse?Here'showitworkswithTing.Useless1monthandyoupayless.Youusemoreandyoupaymore.It'sassimpleasthat.Tingnowhas2nationwidenetworkstochoosefrom.TheycoulddoSprint,T-MobileorGSMService,whichmeansifyouhavegreatSprintorT-Mobilecoverage,you'llhavetheexactsamecoveragewithTing.

Gotobulletproof.ting.comandget$25inservicecreditifyoubringyourphonetoTingorget25bucksoffselectphonesonTing'sshoppage.IuseTing.PeopleonmyteamuseTingandraveaboutit.NotsurewhatTingwillcostyou?Grabyourexistingbillandtestoutthesavingscalculatorlocatedatbulletproof.ting.com.Nocontracts,leaveanytimewithoutapenalty.Gotobulletproof.ting.comandsavesomemoney.Youdeserveit.

SpeakingofMark,thisisnonotherthanMarkHyman.Agoodfriend,afamilyphysician,a9timesNewYorkTimesBestsellingauthor,thedirectoroftheClevelandClinicCenterforFunctionalMedicine,medicaldirectorofTheUltraWellnessCenter,andstarofthemovie"FedUp,"ifyousawthatin2014,addressingchildhoodobesity,andallaroundjustamazingguy,MarkHyman.Mark,welcometotheshow.

Mark: Thanks,Dave.Thanksforhavingme.Greattobehere.

Dave: Mark,youandI,weseeeachotheratconferencesallthetimeandwe'vegottentobefriendsandIwasabouttojustjumpupanddownwhenyoutoldmeaboutyourlatestbook,whenyougavemeachancetoreadit.It'scalled,andthisisabrillianttitle,"EatFat,GetThin:WhytheFat


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WeEatistheKeytoSustainedWeightLossandVibrantHealth."YouknowaboutBulletproofCoffee,everyoneinthisthingknowsthatI'macheerleaderforfatandIwaslike,"Okay,"it'sonethingwhenacrazybiohackersays,"Nowyougottoeatmorefat."It'squiteanotherthingwhenaguywithyourcredibilityandcredentialsislike,"Okay,let'stalkaboutfat,"andbytheway,you'veworkedwithasurgeongeneralondiabetesprevention,likeyouhavethepowertomakethemainstreamtowersoflowfatpropagandajusttiprightover.

Mark: That'sright.

Dave: Areyouhavingfunwiththat?

Mark: It'sunbelievable,Dave.Thetideisshiftinginadramaticway.IwrotethisbookandIreallydugintothousandsofpapersofscienceoffatbecauseevenIwasconfused.Iunderstoodsugarreallywell.Fat,IhadasortofgoodbutnotreallydeepunderstandingandIreallywantedtoknowwhatthestorywas,soIdugintoathousandpapersandIanalyzedallthecontroversialissuesabouttotalfat,saturatedfat,fatandweightloss,fatandheartdiseaseandsoon.IwasgoingtotakethisbooktotheClevelandClinic'schiefofcardiology.Theguywasthechairmanofcardiologydepartment,thenumber1hearthospitalintheworld,andIwasalittlesheepishandI'mlike,"CanIbettergo,givemeaheadsupbecauseI'mcountingfornowwithhisbook,"andIthoughtIbetterjustpoliticallykindofjusttouchbasewithhim.

SteveNess,anamazingguy.Oneofthetopguysincardiology,andIsitdownwithhimandIsay,"Steve,I'mwritingthisbook,I'mwantingtogiveyouaheadsup,"andhe'slike,"Mark,stoprightthere."Hesays,"Ijusthavetotellyou,wegotthewholestorywrongonfatandIthinkweevengotthestorywrongonsaturatedfatandI'mwritinganeditorialfortheAnnalsofInternalMedicineonthis,"andwhich,bytheway,cameoutsubsequentlyandhewroteanarticleintheWallStreetJournalwithNinaTeicholzaboutthedietaryguidelineschallengingthiswholedogmaoflowfat,andIthinkwestillinAmericabelievethatfatistheenemy,thatfat'sa4letterwordthatlowfatisthewaytogoifyouwanttoloseweight.

Evendietitiansaresayingit,thegovernmentissayingiteventhoughthey'resortofnotsayingitinonehandandtheotherhand,they'resayingit,andthatfatcausesheartdisease,butthese2ideasthatfatmakesyoufatandthatfatcausesheartattackshavereallybeendiscreditedbythescienceandyettheconsumersandthemediaandmostphysiciansandregistereddietitiansstilldon'tbelievethat.

Dave: Mark,oneofthemostincrediblethingsthat'sactuallyhappenedtomeinallthetimethatI'vebeenatBulletproofrelatestosomeofthosepeopleyoujusttalkedabout.Iwasataconference,IthinkitwasPaleoEffectswithNyna,andwewerehavingaprivateconversationandwonderingbackandforthwhetheritwasgoingtotakeaclassactionlawsuitagainstsomeonelikeAmericanHeartAssociationandlikewe'reliterallytalkingaboutwhatit'sgoingtotaketodrivethischange.

IflewfromtheretoaTVexecutive'shomewhereIwasgivingatalktoagroupofinfluentialHollywoodpeopleaboutfatandaboutwillpowerandfood,andtherewasacardiothoracicsurgeonintheroomandIkindofbaggedontheAmericanHeartAssociation,andattheendof


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this,shestandsupanditturnsoutshe'soneoftheveryseniorpeoplewithintheAmericanHeartAssociationandI'mlike,"Ohmygod,ItoldlikealltheseHollywoodelitestoeatbutterandhere'ssomeone'swho'sjustgoingthrowmetothemeatgrinder,"andIgo,"Look,IreallywanttoknowwhatyouhavetosayandI'mlistening,I'mopenmindedtothis,"andinsteadofkickingmeinthenutslikeIexpected,shelookedandshesaid,"Iagreewitheverythinghesaid."

It'sjustlikeyousaid,Mark,wegotitwrongandnow,peoplearen'tlisteningtous,andIswear,Ialmostfellover,IalmostliketearedupbecauseIwaslike,"I'mgoingtohavetofightthese-"

Mark: It'sprettystunning,yes.

Dave: Theygetit.

Mark: Theydo.TheAmericanHeartAssociationandtheAmericanCardiologyAssociationrecentlycameoutwithastatementsayingweshouldnotworryaboutcholesterolanymore,sonomoreeggwhites,right?Cholesterol'snotthebadguyandthenewdietaryguidelines,whichwerereleasedthisyearin2016inJanuary,finallysaidweshouldnotworryaboutfatatall.Itwasthefirsttimesincetheguidelinesweredevelopedin1980thattherewasaremovalofanyrestrictionondietaryfatfromtheguidelines,sothere'snomore"Eatlowfat"althoughthey'restillkindofparadoxicallytellyoutoeatlowfatdairy.It'sveryconfusing.Theysayonethingandtheysayanotherthing,it'sconfusing,butthebottomlineisthere'snorestrictionondietaryfatinthefirsttime,theyactuallysaidweshouldreduceaddedsugarstolessthan10%ofourcalories.That'sthegoodthing.

Theyalsoremovedanyrestrictionsondietarycholesterol,saying"Wegotitwrong.It'snolongeraquoteofnutrientconcern."I'mgivingapresentationinNewYorkinFebruaryaboutstatins,aboutcholesterol,aboutheartdisease,andaboutsaturatedfat,andwhenIlookedatallthedataonfat,itwasreallyprettystunning.Saturatedfat,welookedatdifferentkindsofstudies.There'sobservationalstudies,there'sinterventionalstudies.Iwanttosee,whenyoudoanexperiment,whathappens?Therewas,forexample,asmallcontroltrial,about264men,whohadheartattacksandtherewasnobenefitinreducingheartattacksordeathwhenyouactuallyreducesaturatedfat.

Therewasnobenefitandthentheotherthingisthatwhenyoulookatheartdisease,therewasarecentreview,ametaanalysisofover72studies,600,000people,19countries,theylookedatbloodlevelsoffats,theylookedatexperimentalinterventionsaroundfat,andtheyfoundthattherewasnoevidencethattotalfatorsaturatedfatcausedheartdiseasebuttransfatsdidandOmega-3fatswereprotective,andtheconclusionofthe...Itdoesnotclearlysupportthecardiovascularguidelinesthatencouragehighconsumptionofpolyunsaturatedfattyacidsandlowconsumptionoftotalorsaturatedfats,sotheybasicallyexoneratedit,andthenRonaldKrausswhowasinourFatSummit,wehadaFatSummitof150,000peopleattended.Dave,youwereintheFatSummit.

With30experts,welookedatthiswholestoryoffat,andRonaldKrausswastherewho'soneoftheleadingresearchersfromOakland,he'sinthe70snow,maybeolder,Idon'tknow,buthe'sdonesomanypublishedpapers,Iknowyou'veprobablyseenthem.Theydidametaanalysisof


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21studies,350,000peopleover23years.Notasmallstudy,therewasnoconnectiontosaturatedfatandheartdiseaseatall,andalsotheonlythingIfoundwasthatifyougavesaturatedfatincombinationwithrefinedcarbsorstarch,Icallthat"Sweetfat,"sothinkofdoughnut,frenchfries,bagelandbutter,right?It'snotthebutter,it'sthebagel,right?Whenyoueatsweetfat,that'saproblem.Thatcausesmoreharmthangood,soIthinkifpeopleareeatingsaturatedfatsandfatandgeneral,ithastobeinthecontextofaverylowcarbdietbecause-

Dave: Waitaminute,though.Ifyou'regoingtoeatthecarbsbythemselves,they'regoingtocausemetabolichavoc,right?Ifyoueatthecarbswiththefat,they'llmaybecauselesshavocbutit'sstillnotgood,likeintermsofchoosingthelesserevil,it'sstillbettertoputthebutteronthebagelthantoeatthebagelwithnobutter,right?

Mark: Probably.

Dave: Iagreewithyouthere,probably.

Mark: Ithinktheproblemistheweightofthiscombinationoffatandsweetinyourbodywork,sosaturatedfatintheabsenceofrefinedcarbsandsugar,carbohydratesarefine,itcouldbewithsweetpotatoesorotherstarches,butrefinedcarbsandsugarandinthepresenceofOmega-3fats,thereseemtobeverylittleharminallthelatertrial,andIlookedatlikehundredsofstudies,everything,andalsocaninflammation,becausepeoplesay,"Whataboutsaturatedfatinflammation?"Ithinkthatpeopleareconfusedaboutthataswell.Inthecontextofahighcarbdiet,yes,butinfeedingstudies,andthisisfascinating,12%carbs,veryhighfat,upto86gramsofsaturatedfat,that'salmost50%ofyourdietnotfromfatbutfromsaturatedfat.That'salot,okay?That'salot.

Butter'sonly60%ofsaturatedfat,soit'sjustalotofgramsofsaturated,andtheylookedatcholesterol,theylookedatinflammationandtheyfoundtherewasnodifferenceatallintermsofharm.Infact,thelowestinflammationwasfoundinthehighsaturatedfatgroupandhadloweroxidativestress,theyhadlowerinsulin,theyhadlowertriglycerides,andtheyhadmorelargeHDLparticlesandmorelargeLDLprotectiveparticlesandmoreHDL's,soonthesefeedinginterventionstudies,it'sjustboththepopulationstudies,thescientificexperimentalstudies,allofittogethergivesmeconfidencethatI'mnotreallysoworriedaboutsaturatedfat,butIwouldsaythis.Idon'tknowhowmuchyou'vecoveredthis,thegeneticsmatter.

I'mactuallynotjustsittinginmylabdoingstuff.Idon'tevenhavealab,actually,althoughwe'redoingresearchatClevelandClinic.I'mseeingpatients.That'swhatIdoforaliving.I'madoctorandIstillseepatientsandwhenyoudostuffwithpatients,youseenoteverybody'sthesame,sosomepeoplegeneticallyrespondbettertofat,somepeopledon't,andIseerealvariationinthepopulation.IeventalkedtoDr.Kraussaboutthis.There'sreallyaheterogeneitygeneticallyinhowpeoplerespondtosugar,tofat,soIthinkthat'sclear.Weknowforexamplewithsugarandcarbsthatifyourcertainethnicities,ifyou'reSamoanorfromSouthPacific,NativeAmerican,AfricanorAfricanAmerican,Asian,oryou'reevenIndianfromIndia,you'remuchmorelikelytobeaprediabeticordiabetic,tendtobemorecarbohydrateintolerant.


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Theycan'ttoleratethesameamountofcarbohydratesassomebodyelse.They'llbecomemorediabetic,morelikelytogainweight,andIthinkthere'sagroupofpeoplethatarealsomorefatintolerantandIthinkgeneticallydon'tdoaswellwithcertaintypesoffatorfatingeneral,soIthinkit'sasmallergroupbecausebytheway,70%ofAmericansareoverweightandmostofthemarecarbohydrateintolerantsotheydobetteronhigherfatdiets,butIthinkwehavetobesmartpracticingthisandwe'regoingtobecomemoresophisticated,we'llbeabletotakeadropofyourblood,putitonachipandlookatwhatdietyoushouldbeonbasedonyourgeneticpredispositions,andIthinkthat'sreallyimportantpeopleremember.

Dave: Italsoleadstoanewattitudeofrespectintolerance.Whenyougotoarestaurantoryougotosomeone'shouseandthey'reoffendedthatyoudon'teatwhatevertheyeat,it'slikelook,ifIhaveanAppleiPhoneandyou'reanAndroidphone,we'rebothphonesandwecancalleachotherandlikeit'sallgoodbutIcan'tinstallyourappsonmyphonebecauseitjustdoesn'twork.

Mark: That'sagreatanalogy.

Dave: "Sorry,we'redifferent,butlike..."

Mark: That'sgood.

Dave: Ifoundthisalotandfindthislike,look,Idon'teatthingsthataren'tcompatiblewithmybiology,Idon'teatthingsthatmakemeweak,andthere'salonglistofthingsthatI'vedetermineddon'tworkformeandsomeworkokay,andsomewhereit'slike,"Look,ifIeatthat,I'mgoingtofeellikecraptomorrowandI'mjustunwillingtodoit,"andit'snotthatwhatthey'reeatingisbadorwhatI'meatingisgood,it'sthatI'vecrackedthatcodeandsomehastodowithfat,somedoesn't.

Mark: Iwouldsaythebestdoctorintheroomisyouinyourbody.Youneedtolistentoitbecauseitwilltellyouandgiveyoufeedbackandyouwillknowhowyoufeel,howyourbodyfunctions,whatyournumberslooklike,soIalwayssay,"Let'sexperiment"withmypatients."Let'strythisandseewhathappens."Ihadthisonepatientwhowassoresistanttoweightlossandhercholesterolwaswayover300.Hertriglycerideswereoffthechart,like300,andIwasworriedaboutherandshewasstrugglingandtryingtodotherightthingandtheyhadthewholefoodsdietandwasfollowingareallygoodbasicdietanditwasverylowinrefinedsugars,refinedcarbswhichwasn'tworking,soIsaid,"Look,let'sdosomethingcrazy.Let'sjusttryandexperimentfor6weeksandwe'llputyouonaveryhighfatdiet,like70%fat.Let'sjusttrythat,okay?"

Butter,grassfedbutter,coconutoil,oliveoil,nutsandseeds,avocados,justgoforitandcutoutallthestarchesandsugars,nograins,nobeans,justseewhathappens.She'slike,callsmeback6weekslater,wehadanappointmentandshelost20poundsandneverbeenabletoloseweight,andhercholesteroldropped100points,hertriglyceridesdropped200points.ItwasjuststunningtomeandI-

Dave: In6weeks.


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Mark: Yeah.Iactuallyhadaguywhodidmy10daydetox,whichbythewayis50%fat,Idon'tactuallyadvertisethat.

Dave: SoistheBulletproofdietbytheway,thumbsupfor50%,yup.

Mark: 50%fatandthisguywassittingataconferencewithTobyCosgrove,thisiswhenIfirstgotmyjobatClevelandClinic,we'resittingatthisveryexclusivemeetingofveryhighnetworthindividualsandthisguysitsdowninthisdinnertableandononesideofmeisElizabethHolmesfromTheranosandTobyCosgrove,theCEO,thatkindofcrowd,andhegoes,"Oh,Dr.Hyman,Ican'tbelieveit'syou.Ijustdidyour10daydetoxandnotonlydidIlose10poundsin10days,butmycholesteroldropped100pointsandmytriglyceridesdropped200pointsandmyasthmarefluxwentaway,"andI'mlike,"Yeah."

Dave: Whatdoyousaytothepeoplewithhypercholesteremia,thefamilialkind.Forpeoplelistening,whatthatmeansispeoplewhohaveageneticpredispositionhaveveryhighcholesterol.IhaveagoodfriendwhousesBulletprooftechniquesandfeelsamazingandgotridoflifelongfatigueonhighfatdietbuthealreadywasonStatindrugssincehewasateenager.

Mark: Didhischolesterolgoupordownornot?

Dave: Itwentupalittlebitbutitwasalreadynorthof300sohe'shoveringon3,400nomatterwhathedoes,andonStatinsandthelowfatdietthatruinshislife,hecangetitdownto1909,butthenhehateshislife.Ihaveafewotherpeoplewho'vereachedouttome,clientsorjustpeopleontheBulletproofforums,andIdon'treallyhaveananswertothem,likeyouhavetostarthacking,youneedtotrywhichcarbohydratesareruinousforyou,whichonesaren't.Youknowalotmoreinthis.You'readoctor,I'mahacker,sowhatdoyoudowithpeoplelikethat?

Mark: I'malicensedbiohacker.You'reanunlicensedbiohacker.

Dave: Exactly.

Mark: LikeIsaidbefore,Icustomizeandteachpatients.Withthosepatients,Imightbealittlecautiousaboutsaturatedfatandmightworkonotherkindsoffat,right?Imightdomoremonounsaturated,moreOmega-3fats,morenutsandseeds,moreavocados,andImightpullbackonthesaturatedbecauseitdoesraiseHDLalot,soIthinkyouhavetoseethesensitivityofpeople,andthere'snosuchthingasfamilial...Thehomozygousdominantformislikeoneinamillion,right?It'sveryrareunlessyoubreedwithyoursister,thenit'smorecommon,butifyoudon't-

Dave: Bulletprooftechnique,don'tbreedwithyoursister.Allright,then.

Mark: Essentially,it'sprettyrare.Theheterozygousformismorecommon.That'swhereyouhavelikeonecopyofthegene.It'slessofaproblembutit'srealandIthinkthosepeopledogetheartdiseaseandIthinkthosepatientsmightneedcholesterolloweringmedicationsorStatins,butlookatalltheotherriskfactorsofheartdiseasebecauseit'snotjustthecholesterolthat'stheissue,it'sinflammation,it'soxidativestress,it'syourmethylationpathways,it'stoxinsinthe


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environment,it'syourinsulinsensitivity,it'sawholehostofthingsthatyouhavetolookatinordertoseehowtofixyourriskofheartdisease.ItalkaboutthatinthebooktoobecauseItakedownStatinsprettyhardandItakedownthiswholecholesterolmythprettyhard.Thenpeoplego,"WhatdoIdothen?WhatistherealcauseandhowdoIfixit?"

IthinktherearepeoplewhodoneedStatinsbutit'svery,veryfewinmymind,andIthink-

Dave: WhydoyourecommendStatinsversussomethingthatjustbindstocholesterol?There'sanaturalsideofthings-

Mark: Becauseitgivesyougasandrefluxandconstipation,that'salotpainfultotake.

Dave: Activatedcharcoal,right?Ifyoulookatactivatedcharcoal,itbindstobileinasimilarwayandbindstocholesterolandcausesexcretion,andtherearestudies,notofanythingthatImakebutjuststudiesofactivatedcharcoalingeneralthatsaylikea15%reductioninLDL,atleastinthestudyI'mthinkingof.

Mark: BruceJenkinshadagreatstudy.Heusedwholesoyfoods,heusedfiber,viscousfiber,solublefiber,andheusedIthinkalmondsandplantsterols,whichareplantcompoundsthatarefatsthathelpreducecholesterol,andhecomparedthattoStatinsandtherewasthismuchofareductioninacomplexinterventioncomponentsasStatins,soItendtouseallthesethingsincombination.I'lluseaggressivefiberandIuse,forexample,PGXwhichisaformoffiberthat'smadefromcognacroot.Notthecognacyoudrinkbutit'saJapanesefiber,it'sveryviscousifthere'slotofwaterandcandramaticallyreducecholesterolandthebadcholesterol,anditcanalsohelpreducebloodsugar,andIthinkthatIuseplantsterols,IuseallsetsofherbslikeBerberine-

Dave: Policosanol?

Mark: Policosanol,IusedforawhilebutIdidn'tfinditthateffective.

Dave: That'snotthesterolyouuse,okay.Whatsterolsdoyouuse?

Mark: There'sjustacombinationoflikeStemasterolandawholebunchofdifferentplantsterolsthatareincombinationsthatIused,andthere'sBerberinewhichiseffectiveandriceyeast.Iuseabunchofcombinationsofthingsandoften,we'llseedramaticresults,butagain,everybody'sdifferent.Somebodywillresponddramatically,othersdon't.

Dave: I'mgoingtoaskaquestionthat,andwedon'tarrangethesequestionsaheadoftime,Idowithanyguestbutalsolikewe'refriends,wejusttalkaboutstuff,soyouwereinMoldy,thedocumentary-

Mark: Iwas,yeah.

Dave: Oneofthemostimpactfulquotesthat'smademequestionalotofresearchouttherecomesfromA.V.CostantiniwhowroteTheFungalbionicseries.ThisisaWHOresearcherswhospenta


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lotoftimelookingatbasicallytheeffectoftoxinsinfoodandtheenvironmentonallsortsofhumandiseases.Hehasawholebook,likewith900referencesaboutheartdisease,andthere'saquoteonthefront.Itsays,"Thereisaknowncauseofatherosclerosis.Itismycotoxins,"andhistheory,andI'mnotsayingit'sonlyright,I'msayingit'sinterestingisthatthesearetoxinsthatbindstoanddissolveintofats.

Mark: Wait,isthis"Thereisaknowncause"or"Theknowncause?"

Dave: Let'ssee."Thereisaknowncause"ofit.I'msureit'smultifactorial,likethere'smorethanonethingthat'scontributing,butwhatalwaysscaredmeaboutthesethingsaboutfat,wellifthefathasfatsolublestuffthatdispersesinitthatcauseslesionsonyourarterieslikeitdoesinanimalfeedthatweknowaboutlikeinpigs,theymonitorthisstuffinpigfeedbecauseitgoesintothefat,butifitgoesintoourfat,itcausesthesamething.Ifeellikealotofthestudiesonfathaven'ttestedthefattoseeifit'sactuallycleanfatversusfatthathasthingthatareknowntocauselesionsinyourarteriesinit.

Mark: Yeah.Ithinkthisistherealproblem,Dave,andIthinkit'sreallybeenunderappreciated,butifwelookathowtoxinsarestored,there'ssomethingcalled"Persistentorganicplutons"andthesearethe80,000pluschemicalsintheenvironment,theirpesticides,theirfertilizers,theirherbicides,theirPhthalates,PCB's,BPA,dioxin,younameit,it'severywhere,andtheaveragepersonisjustfullofthem.Infact,therewasafatbiopsyregistrythatwasdoneincadaversandtheaveragehuman,highlevelsofmostofthecommontoxinsoutthere,sobasically,ifwewerefood,wewouldn'tbesafetoeat,right?"Donoteatlessbecause-

Dave: That'sagreatquote.

Mark: Ithinkifwelookatanimals,they'reintheenvironmenttooandthey'reexposedtotheairandthewaterandthefeedandallthestuffthatevenifthey'regrassfed,organic,whatever,whatever,it'sstillaconcernforme,soIdoworryaboutitbecausethat'swehrethetoxinsconcentrateinthefat.Ithinkwedon'thaveawayofreallylookingatit,Idon'tthinkanybodyhaveactuallygonetothetroubleoftestingit.Whatabouttestingoliveoilversusgrassfedbutter?Theleveloftoxinsineachofthem.Idon'tknow,butitisaconcernforme.

Partofwhatwedoinfunctionalmedicineisreallyfocusonhowdoyouupregulatereallydetoxificationandhowdoyoumaximizeyourbody'sexcretionofthesethingsandwhatcanyoudo,andIthinkthingslikeactivatedcharcoal,[Coscarmine00:23:30]aregreat,butthere'salsootherwaystoupregulateyourbody'snaturalcapacitytogetridofjunk.

Dave: Whatareyourtop3favoritewaysofupregulating?Everyonelisteninghastowanttoknowthatnow.

Mark: Ihaveapersonalinterestinthisbecauseyouwerepoisonedbymold,Iwaspoisonedbymercury.

Dave: Metoo,Ihadthewholemercurychelationaswell.Ididn'trealizewehadthatincommoneven.


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Mark: That'sactuallywhathavehelpedmebiohackmywayoutofthisbecausenoonecouldfigureitout,Iwassosick,andmymercury,afterIchallenged,thiswas187,soyouprobablyknowthat'slikejustoffthechart,right?

Dave: Yeah.

Mark: Completelyoffthechart,soIdoacoupleofthings.OnisImakesureIhaveafewcupsofBrassicaseveryday,likebroccoli,collards,kale,brusselsprouts.Idon'twanttohavethatmuchrawBrassicasbecausetheycannukeyourthyroid.

Dave: Iloveyou,man.You'resorightonthisstuff.

Mark: IactuallyreadareportoftheNewEnglandJournalthatthiswomanthoughtBokChoywashealthysoshedecided2poundsofrawBokChoyeveryday.Alittlecrazybutsheendedupinahypothyroidcoma.Youcandrinktoomuch,youcaneattoomuchBokChoy,andsoIthinkImakesureIeatthose.GarlicisagreatdetoxifierandthenImakesureIdothingtohelpmybodyexcrete,soImakesureIhaveplentyoffibersoI'mexcreting,mybowelsaremovingreallyfrequently,makesureIdrinklotsofwatertoflushmysystem,ImakesureIsweat,IhaveasteamandasaunaIgoinregularly,Iexercisewhichhelpsmedetoxify,andthenIuseawholehostof,Iknowthisismorethan3butanyway-

Dave: Thisisgreat.Keepgoing,man.Don'tstop.

Mark: ThenIuseawholehostofnutrientstohelpmesupportmyliverdetoxification,somethylationsupport'sreallyimportant.That'sB6,Folate,B12.IusealsothingstohelpmeboostGlutathione,whetherit'sgreentea,whetherit'scatechinsingreentea,whetherit'sthingslikeN-AcetylCysteineorAlpha-LipoicAcidormilkthistle,ImakesureIdothingstoupregulateSelenium,andImakesureIhaveallthecollardnutrientstohelpmyliverdetoxify,andsoI'vewrittenalotaboutdetoxification,livingcleanandgreeninmanyofmybooksandIthinkIexplainedhowdoyoumakesureyougetyourliverworkingandyourwholedetoxsystemworkingbecauseit'scritical.SometimesIevenuseIVGlutathioneasawaytojustkeepmyselfgoing.

Dave: Idotoo.I'vetraveled-

Mark: Trackmarks,huh?

Dave: Yeah,closetothepictureofmytrackmarkstheotherday.I'mlike,"Hopefully,I'mnotoffendinganyonewhodoes,"butlikethesearethegoodtrackmarks,right?

Mark: Yeah.It'strue.

Dave: Ifinditabsolutelyrefreshingthatasaphysician,you'retalkingaboutthisstuffandyou'rebeingreallyopenaboutitbecauseifthisiswhatyou'redoingforyourownhealthandperformance,andyouhaveaprettystressfullife.You'relaunchingabook.Infact,Iwouldimagineyou'redestinedfortheNewYorkTimeslistagain,probablyyour10thtimeifthishappens,andIknowhowhardabooklaunchis,soyou'repushinghardonmultiplefrontsallthetime,you'removing


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theneedleinabigway,soyouhavemoretoxinexposureandmorestressexposurethanmostpeoplelisteningtotheshowrightnow.

Mark: Maybe.

Dave: Inordertohandlethat,you'realsosupportingyoursystemwithallofthesethings,andthat'swhatIthinkmostpeoplearemissingtoday.

Mark: There'sacoupleofsecrets.Wanttoknowmysecrets?

Dave: Yeah.

Mark: Number1isyourmind.Yourmindisyourworstenemy,oritcouldbeyourbestfriend,anditallhastodowithhowyou...Yourlife,andifyouperceiveyourlifeasstressful,it'sstressful.Ifyouperceivethelifeasfunandadventure,soIthinkthereareobjectivethingsthataretraumasforsure.Forsure,thosewerereal,butmostofthethingsthatwesufferfromisourownmonkeymindcausingalotofsufferings.Ilearnedovertheyearstobasicallytelltoshutup,leavemealone,I'mbusy,andIgotthingstodo,justdon'tbotherme,andIactuallybelievedthatI'mheretodogoodworkandI'mheretohavefunandI'mheretobeengagedandbringloveandintelligenceandhealingtotheworld,andthat'swhatIdoeveryday,sothatsortofinspiresme.

ThenImakesureItakecareofthismachine,right?Iexercise,Isweat,Igetenoughsleep,Ieatgreatfood,andItakemysupplements,andImakesureIspendtimewithfriendsandconnect,andsometimesIgohard,sometimesIwanttosprint,sometimesIcanjustdoanicestroll.Ijusttrytofigureouthowtofitthosethingsinmylifethatcreatebalance,andsometimesit'snotperfect,andthensometimesmydaysarejusttoolongwhenI'minClevelandandI'mworkingfrom6inthemorninguntil10atnight,thatjustputsanumberonmebutthenIrecharge.IcamebackhomeandIwenttoyogaandItookasaunaandtookabeautifulwalkfor3hoursinthewoodswithsomefriends,andIjustfigureouthowtoputitalltogether.

Dave: Itwasinteresting,Isortofputitonyoulikethisisstressfulstuff,andinmymindIwasthinkingthisisbiologicallystressfulbecauseyou'reonairplanes,becauseyou'reinhotels,becauseyoudon'talwaysgetaccesstogoodfoodandbecauseyoursleepisdisruptedbecauseofallthisflying,right?Eventhen,yourcognitiveimmunesystem,Idon'tmean...

Mark: Yeah.

Dave: Yourejectedtheideathatitwasstressful,right?"No,it'sactuallynotstressfulbecauseit'sfun,"andIhavethesameexperience,right?

Mark: It'strue.Theonethingthatreallykindofgotmewasthedefinitionofstresswhichisstressistheperception,it'saperceptionofarealoranimaginedthreattoyourbodyoryourego,soitcouldbearealthreattoyourbodylikesomeonehavingaguntoyourhead,that'sstressful,oritcouldbeanimaginedthreattoyourego,likeyouthinkyourwife'scheatingonyoubutshe'sactuallynot,she'sjustatworkandyoucreatethissupposedstoryinyourhead,itcreatesastressresponse,andit'snoteventrue.That'swhereyoucanhavealotofcontrolbecausemost


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ofusdon'thaverealdangeranymore.IwasintheofficeinClevelandtheotherdayandIhadbeenworking,itwasalongday,Iwasintheofficein6:30andwithpatientsalldayandI'mlike,"Igottogogiveapresentationtoday.Ineedtodosomeexercise.Ineedtodosomething."

Isaidtosomeoftheworkersinmyoffice,"Let'sgodothe7minuteworkout."It'slike7minutehighintensity,infulltraining,we'dputonsomemusic,andthey'relike,"Oh,we'reworking."I'mlike,"Listen,nobody'sdying.We'renotintheICU.Let'sjustgohere.7minutes.Let'sdoit,"andsoweputonsomemusicanditwaslikeeverybodystartedcomingintheroom,weallstartedworkingout,itwasjustsofun,andpeoplecanjusttakethatminutetostopandjustbeinitsgreat...

Dave: Itisanditalsohighlightsthedifferencebetweenstrugglingandworkinghard,right?You'reworkinghardbutyou'redoingitinawaywhereyou'reprovidingvaluetotheworld,you'respreadingyourmessagearoundfatandaroundalltheotherthingsthatarepossibleforustodo.Issomeoneelseinasimilarpositioncouldbelike,"Oh,it'ssuchastruggleandI'mworkingsohard,"andit'sthelackofstrugglethatmakesiteasybutit'snotbecauseitwaseasytostartwith,right?It'sbecauseyou'vechangedthemindset.

Mark: Right.Youhavetogetoutofyourownway.That'sthekeyandIfindthatreallyhelpful.

Dave: Allright.Nowthisiswayoffthetopicoffat.Iwanttocirclebacktofat.

Mark: ThethingisthemorefatI'veeaten,it'sfascinating,themorefatI'veeaten,mybrainissharper.Honestly,Iwrotemybook,thisone,EatFat,GetThin,IwroteitonBulletproof.

Dave: Didyoureally?

Mark: IwakeupinthemorningandI'dhavemyMCToilandmycoffeeandIwouldjustlikesitdown,Iwouldwrite,andthey'llbelike,"Howdoyouwritesomanybooks?"I'mlike,"Well,"andIjustfoundmymindwasalert,Iwasfocused,anditjusthelpsme,andmybodyhaschanged.IlookedbackatmypicturesofmybodywhenIwas,andI'veneverbeenfatter,butIwasprobably15poundsheavier,littlelovehandles,andmybodywasn'tmusculareventhoughIranlike5milesaday,Iwasavegetarian,likeIthoughtIwasn'treallyoutofshape,Iwasjustnotinaniceshape,andthenI'm56nowandItakemyshirtoffandlookatthemirrorandI'mlike,"Wow."I'vegotasixpackandIdon'tworkoutthatmuch.IworkoutlessthanIusedtoandI'mmorefit,it'sjustastrangephenomena,likeit'sreallypowerful.

Dave: It'spowerfulandit'soneofthosethingswhere,look,weallhavethiscapacityandtheputinandalltheothercrapprogrammingyouhavetakesawayallthatcapacity,itwasalwaysthere,andIneverknewthateitherbutthesamethingshappened.IwasonaDr.Drew'sshow.I'mguessingyoumusthavemetDr.DrewfromLoveline.

Mark: Yeah.

Dave: HealsokindoffellinlovewithBulletprooftomygreatsurpriseanddelight,justwiththecoffee,andthefirsttimeIwenton,hedidn'tsaysomething,butthesecondtimeIwenton,I'vebeen


14

doingthisforlike8yearsnowwiththisamountsofbutterthatIwasalittleafraidofbutI'mlike,"Thestudiessupportme,I'mjustgoingtodothis,"andhe'slike,"Dave,youlooklikesomeonewhowasneverfatbecausewhenIfirstmetyou,youlooklikesomeonewholost100pounds,butnowlike..."Ithinkovertime,something'shappening,andI'veseenthestudythatsaidthatthehalflifeoffatinourcellmembranesissomehundreddays.Canyoutalkalittlebitabouthowlongittakestolikegetridofallthefat,likethatstructuralfatinthebodywithoutthebadfat?

Mark: There's2kindoffat,right?There'sstoragefatwhichislikeyourfatcells,butthere'salsofatthat'sjustpartofwhoyouare.Yourbrainforexampleis60%fatandmostofit'sOmega-3fats.Yourcellmembranes,youhave10trillioncellsandeverysingleoneofthemhasabagaroundit,thecellmembrane,it'smadeoffat,andithastobemadeontherightfat.Ifit'smadeofCriscoandnotfishoil,that'sabigproblem.It'saverybigproblemandittakesalongtimeforyoutorebuildyourmembranes,rebuildyourcells,anditcouldtakeyears,really,soIalwayssay,"Peopleneedanoilchange."

Weneedanoilchangebecausewegotthewrongoil,wegottorinseouttheoldoilandputinthenewoilandbyputtingthemthegoodoils,youliterallychangethestructureofyourbody,youchangethestructureofyourtissuesandhowtheyfunctionsbecauseyourcellsareliketheearsthatlistentomessagesfromeverywhereinyourbodyinorderforyoutoreceivethosemessageandthecellstocommunicate,thingsthatfunction,you'regoingtohaveahappyimmunesystem,happybrainfunction,allofitdependsonthisgreatcommunication,andifyourcellmembranesaren'tfunctioningrightbecausethey'restifforthey'reinflamedortheyhavethewrongcombinationsoffatsinthemembranes,youcan'tfunctionverywell,andweseethis.

TherewasHibbeln,andItalkaboutthisinthebook,youmightknowHibbelnfromtheNIH,whiletheresearchonOmega-6fatsandOmega-3fatsandwefoundthatwhenwestartedeatinglike20%ofourcaloriesassoybeanoil,right?It'scrazy,right?It'sathousandfoldincreasesince1900s.Weactuallyfoundthattherewasanincreaseinhomicide,suicides,violencefromthosecountriesthatincreasedtheOmega-6anddecreasedtheOmega-3's,andwhenyouswitchthatup,theoppositehappens,andI'veseenthesestudieswhereyougiveOmega-3'stoprisoners,violentcrimegoesdownintheprison.It'samazing.

Dave: Nowthere'saflipsidetothistooandI'velookedalotatcellmembranechemistry,thatwaswe'vereadsomeofthesamepapersovertheyears,you'veprobablyreadalotmorethanIhave,ifyougoreallyhighdosefishoilandyougetexcessivefluidinthecellmembrane,whataretherisks,whathappensifyoudothat?

Mark: It'slikeanything,right?IfyoueattoomuchBokChoy,you'regoingtogoonacoma.Ifyoudrinktoomuchwater,you'regoinghyponatremic,ifyouhavetoomuchanything,oxygen,you'lldie,oxygentoxicity,soallthesethingsthataregoodforusgoestohaveadarksideifyoutakeanexcessamount.TheInuithaveIthink19gramsadayofOmega-3fat,whichisalot.That'slike19timesmorethanIusuallyrecommendor10timesmorethanIusuallyrecommend,sothat'salotandyettheywerefine,soIthinkourbodieshavesomecapacitytohandlethingswheninarangebutIthinkit'sjustasitneedsyoutobedrink,andit'shard.Theonlywaytogetthatmuchfishoilistodrinkitandifyoudrinkalotofit,andIdon'trecommendthat.


15

Dave: I'veknownafewpeoplewhoarelikeahealthgeek."Well,I'mgoingtohave3glugsfromthe

fishoilbottle."Likeliterally,that'saquotefromsomeone,likeIdon'tthinkthat'sagoodideabecause-

Mark: Howmuchisaglugexactly?

Dave: It'sgottobeatleastatablespoonorsomething,Idon'tknow,but-

Mark: Measurement,aglug?

Dave: Yeah,andI'veseenguyson30,40gramsadayandtheirskinlookslikeit'skindofmeltingofftheirbody,liketheydon'tlookhealthy,theylooksallowandpale,right?

Mark: Yeah.

Dave: There'sandideaofamount-

Mark: Alittlebit'sgood.Peoplethinkalot'sbetter,it'snotlikethat.

Dave: Yeah.WhenyoudrawbloodandyoulookatthisratioofaOmega-6toOmega-3,andI'veaskedafewotherguests,IjusthavetalkedtoBarrySearsaboutthistheotherdayonBulletproof,Idon'tevenknow...Youmightgetpublishedbeforehisgetsdonebecausewe'reputtingthisupforyourbooklaunch,likewhat'stheideaofratioinyourworkfromOmega-6toOmega-3whenyoudrawbloodonsomeone,whatdoyouwanttosee?

Mark: That'sagoodquestion.GuyslikeWalterWillettsayitdoesn'tmatter,there'snoevidence.Guyslike-

Dave: Buthedoesn'thaveevidenceforanything.

Mark: He'saninterestingguy.He'sasmartguy.Iknowhim,Irespecthim,he'sreallyfine.Calledouttransfats,hehelpedusreallyputalotofstuffonthemapthatwedidn'tknowabout,

Dave: Ithinkit'safairpoint.

Mark: Ithinkthatthere'salotofevidencefromfromNIHandHibbelnfromtheNIHthatwedoneedabalance,andsothequestioniswhatshouldbethebalance?Youcanlookhistoricallyandsay,"Whatwasthebalance?Howmuchdidweeat?"Ireviewthatinthebookbecauseforeachofthefats,Isay,"Whatwasourhistoricalconsumptionofthesefats,andfromthetypicaldietsofhunter/gatherers,whatdotheylooklike?"

TheOmega-6to3ratio,dependingonwhereyoulive,ifyouwereacoastal,likeanInuit,andallyou'reeatingisOmega-3fatsfromfish,you'dhaveahigheramount,butitwasprobably1:1to2:3:1,andso1:1Omega-6toOmega-3,2or3:1forOmega-6toOmega-3,andsoweactuallytestpeopleinourclinicandwelookattheOmega-3's,Omega-6's,theratio,Arachidonictoo,


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EFAratios,andwelookatallthesepatternsandwecanseethepeoplewhodon'tconsumealotoffisharetypicallyveryOmega-3deficientandifyou'reveganandyoudon'ttakefishoiloryoudon'ttakealotoftheprecursorswhichareALA,althoughtheydon'tconvertverywellformostpeople.

Dave: 45:1right?

Mark: Yeah.It'shardunless...There'ssomanythingsthatinterferewithratio,ImeanwiththeconversionofALAtoEPAandDHAwhichisthegoodfatsyouwantbecausewe'retoxic,peoplehavenutrientdeficiencies,there'salltheseinterestingenzymes,thenyouneedtogetthepre-formedDHAorEPAandyoucangetthatfromsometimesplantfoodslikealgae,butmostofthetimeitcomesfromfish,andIthinkpeopledoneeditandfarmorethanAmericanshave.90pluspercentaredeficientsoIthinkwehavewaytoomuchrefinedoilinourdiet.20%ofourcaloriesandwehavealmostnoOmega-3andIthinkthatiscreatingahugehavocinthebody.

Imentionedbefore,saturatedfats,insomeoftheresearchIoverturnedwith,saturatedfatscanbeaproblemanddrivesomeinflammationifyoudon'thaveadequateOmega-3'sbecausetheyincreasesomeofthe...Thatcauseannoyancethatdriveinflammation.

Dave: BarrySearssaidhewasafraidofbutterbecausethePalmiticAcidinitwouldbesobad,whichisn'tmyexperience.Itrackmyinflammationdramaticallyinbutter,atleastwhenIeattherestoftheBulletproofdiet,whichisn'tvery...YouandI,Idon'tknow,butthere'sprobablynuancesinwherethiswouldgetbutIwouldopenyourbookandsaydowhatthatsaystoanyoneandI'mtotallygoodwiththat,sowe'llsaywe'reeatingthewayweeat,whatisyourtakeonPalmiticAcidinthecontextofthewholedietversusdoingthat?

Mark: It'sfascinating,welookattheresearchonPalmiticAcid.Intheblood,PalmiticAcidandStearicAcidareeventamedsaturatedfatsthathavebeenlinkedtoheartdisease,theydocauseheartdisease,sothat'sanimportantthingtoknow.Theotherquestioniswhatcauseshighlevelsofthosefatsintheblood.Isitsaturatedfat?Isitactuallyeatingthesaturatedfat,sotherealquestion'swhatcauseshighlevelsofPalmiticandStearicAcidintheblood?Isitsaturatedfatornot?Thisisactuallywelldocumentedandit'sfascinating.Thisisonestudywheretheyget86gramsofsaturatedfat.Notjustfatbutsaturatedfat.

Dave: That'sabigload.

Mark: Therewasnoimpactonbloodlevelsofsaturatedfat,sothesaturatedfatyoueatdoesnotchangeyourbloodlevelofsaturatedfat.WhenIreadthat,Iwaslike,"Ohmygod,Ididn'tknowthat."

Dave: Nice.Ididn'tknowthateither,Mark.

Mark: Thereyougo.ItaughtDaveAspreysomething.That'simpressive.

Dave: Ofcourse.


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Mark: Youshouldcheckoutthisliterature.It'sfascinating.ThePalmiticandStearicAcidareformedthroughaprocess,it'sinthelivercalled"Lipogenesis."

Dave: Yes.

Mark: WhatcausesLipogenesis?Sugar,fructose,refinedcarbs,theyalldrivethisprocessofproducingLipogenesis.Theyproducesaturatedfat,theyproducePalmiticAcids,StearicAcid,theyincreasetriglycerides,lowerHDL,theycreateinflammation,theycausefattyliver,thisisanastythingthathappens,sowhenyouincreaseinsulin,you'reactuallyincreasingthisactivitycalledLipogenesis,sowhenyoueatfat,itinhibitsLipogenesis.Infact,Idon'tknowifyouknowthisstudy,buttherewasafastingstudywheretheyweregivingalcoholtoratstogivethemfattyliverandthentheygavethemMCToil.

Dave: Sorry,itdoesn'twork.

Mark: No,itdoeswork.

Dave: MCToil'sprotective,right?

Mark: Yeah,sowhentheytriedtogivethemfattyliverandthenactually,evenwhiletheywerestilldrinkingandtheyhavethesedrunkrats,theywerestillabletoreversethefattyliverusingMCToil.

Dave: Thatisremarkable.

Mark: Yeah.Ithastodowiththisfactofhowtheliverisaffectedbycarbsandsugar.

Dave: Inthatstudy,Mark,justforpeoplelistening,theydidn'tuseall4MCToils,becausethere's4kindsofMCToil,theyonlyused2ofthe4,andthat'sabigthingbecausethere'scompaniesouttheresellingthelongchainfatthat'sartificiallylabeledasmediumchain,LauricAcid,asifithasthesespecialeffectsthatMCT'shave.It'stechnicallyanMCTbutbiologically,it'salongchainfat.

Mark: Right.That'sreallythisfascinatingdata.IthinkwehavetojustbesmartbutaccordingtowhatBarrysaid,yeah,PalmiticAcidinthebloodisbad,buthowdoyougetit?Eatingcarbs,notfats,soI'mnotworriedaboutredpalmoilwhichisfromnonconflictpalmoilwhichismeaningtheydon'tteardownrainforestandusekidstoharvestit,insteadofahorriblepracticeandknowthey'veorangutanhabitatsinIndonesiaandMalaysia.I'mtalkingaboutnonconflictpalmoil.Inmoderation,that'sokay,andIthinkcoconutoilisokay,butIthinkweshouldn'tworryaboutPalmiticAcidinourdiet.Whatdoyouthink?

Dave: Myexperienceisthatit'ssimplynotinflammatorywhenyoueatitinconjunctionwiththekindofdietswerecommendwhereyoudon'teatsugar,wheretheyeatvegetablesandmeatwithit,andit'slikethenumbersaren'tthereforinflammation,likeit'sempiricalevidence.It'sifyoucandoityourself,youcandrawyourbloodandyou'llseeifit'scausinginflammation.


18

Mark: TheotherthingIwantedtosayisreallyimportantisthatifyoulookatyourplate,probably50to75%ofyourplateshouldbevegetablesbyvolume.

Dave: Right.

Mark: Calories,ifyoupresentsfat,fatdoesn'ttakeupalotofvolume,right?Acoupleoftableswasall,that'salotoffatbutacoupleoftablewasall,wellitprobablyhasmorecaloriesthananentirepileofvegetables,right?Byvolume,yourplateshouldbemostlyvegetables.Bycalories,mostlyfat.

Dave: There'sastrangething.Backin1994,whenDSHEAwasbeingmade,thiswastheregulationthatallowsustotakesupplementswithouttreatingthemlikedrugs,someofthepharmaceuticalindustryisstilltryingtooverturnsotheymakebasicallylotsmoremoneyandrestrictouraccesstosupplements,butbackaroundthattime,theywerecategorizingfatsassaturatedfatsandmediumchaintriglycerides,whicharetechnicallysaturated,theygotlumpedinwithlongchainfatseventhoughbiologically,theyhaveentirelydifferenteffectsonthebody.They'remetabolizeddifferently.CanyouwalkthroughsomeofthedifferencestherebecausewhenIputmyquote,myrecommendationsareatleast50%ofyourcaloriesfromfat,upto70oreven80,andofthatatleasthalfofitshouldbesaturated,butIalsopourbrainoctanewhichisoneofthe4mediumchains.

Ipouritonafteralltheotherfatandittechnicallyisafatbutmetabolizesdifferently.Canyouwalkthroughthedifferencesthatthebodyworksonthosefats?

Mark: Yeahsure.There's2things.Oneiswhatisthedaythatshowaroundhowitaffectsthebodybecauseyoucangetintobiochemistry,that'sinteresting,butIthinkI'mreally...That'swhatImeant,gettingintoitasadoctor-

Dave: You'reaclinician,right.

Mark: Right.Theotherthingthat,andfirst,I'llansweryourquestionwhichisthey'reabsorbeddifferently.Theydon'thavetogothroughtheLymphaticSystem.They'renotmetabolizedinthesameway.Theyactuallyaresuperfuelforyourmitochondriathatproduceenergy,theyhelpimproveyourfatmetabolism,theyhelptoreduceyourfatstore,andtheyactuallyshowntodothatinmany,manytrialswhenthey'redoneexperimentallycomparingcornoilandsayanMCToil,theirmetabolism'sfaster,theircalorieburningisfaster,theirvisceralfatgoesdown,theirtriglyceridegodown.EverythinggetsbetterwhenyouusehigherlevelsofMCToil,sothedata'sprettyimpressiveonthat.

It'sinteresting.Iwouldcredityouwithbringingthistopopularattention.MostpeoplehaveneverheardofMCToil.Afewgeekyfitnesspeopleknewaboutit,afewgeekyscientists,butitwasn'tsomethingthatwasouttherethatpeopleweretalkingabout.It'stherapeuticallyinvariousproductsthatareusedinmedicinebutit'sreallywassomethingthatwassortoflike,"Whatisthat?"It'snotsomethingwe'rereallypayingattentionto,butIwouldcredityouwithreallybringingthistolightforpeopleandhelpingthemunderstanditandhelpingpeopleknowthatitcanbepartofaneffectivestrategyforgettinghealthy,forhelpingyourbrain.Iuseitin


19

myAlzheimer'spatients,Iuseitinkidswhoareautistic,Iuseitinallsortsofpatients,soIthinkit'sreallyapowerfulsubstance.It'sverydifferentqualitativelyandbiochemicallythanotherfats.

Dave: Doyoucountitinyour50%?InEatFat,GetThin,you'relike50%ofcaloriesfromfat.DoesMCToilorthespecificsubtypesthatIused,dothosecountinthe50%oraretheysomethingelse?

Mark: Here'sthetruth.WhenIanalyzedthediet,that'swhatitis,butIdon'tthinkit'shelpfulforpeopletothink,"I'matthismanygramsofcarbs,thismanygramsoffat,thismanygramsofprotein,I'vethismanycalories,"I'ddrivemyselfcrazytrying.

Dave: Yes.

Mark: Ontopofthat,youhavetobeaPhDinnutritionandontopofthat,ifyouwere,you'dprobablygetitwronghalfthetime,soit'ssuperhardtothinkthatway,soIthinkaboutwhatshouldIeat.WhatshouldIeatandincludethosefoodsinmydieteveryday,andthattakescareofitself,right?Thattakescareofitself,sobynoteatingsugarandrefinedcarbs,eatingprotein,vegetables,nutsandseeds,oliveoil,avocados,coconut,butter,MCToil,Ijustdon'tworryaboutit,likeIjustmakefoodandthenitsortoftakescareofitself.

Dave: Whatdoyousaytothe...It'susuallythehyperexerciselikethefitnesscrowd,Igetalotoftheseyoungkindof"I'llusedoubleblindplacebostodiscreditwhatever,"butthey'regoingtolookatahighfatdietandgo"There'stoomanycaloriesinthere,"andmyfavoriteis"There's460caloriesinalargecupofBulletproofcoffee.Therefore,itmakesyoufat,"andI'mlike,"Okay,butyoudon'tdrinkthewholecupifyoudon'twantto,"andit'slike...Whatdoyousayifyouwillsay,"Well,highfatdietmakesyoufat?"

Mark: Let'stalkaboutthat.That'sthewholethesis,right,ofthebook?It'seatingfatjustmakeyoufat.DavidLeatherisafriendofmineandhe'soneofthetopresearchers,Harvard,Stanford,MD,PhD,brilliantguy,andhesaid,"Mark,thinkaboutitthisway.Ifyouhaveatype1diabetic,beforetheygetdiagnosed,they'restarving,they'reeatinglikecrazy.Oneofthe...Polyphagiawhichmeanshungryallthetimeandthey'reeatingallthetime.Theycouldbeeating10,000caloriesadayandthey'relosingweight,sohowdoesthatworkifweightisamathproblem,right?What'smissinginthatequationisinsulin.Insulin,becausetheirpancreaspoopedout,sotheyhavenoinsulin,theycan'tstorefat,right?

Evenifthey'reeating...Whateverthey'reeating,itdoesn'tmatter,sointheabsenceoffoodthatspikesinsulin,theproteinwill,right?Fatwon't,sofatdoesn'tdothatandsoit'snotjustamathproblem.Youcaneatactuallymorecaloriesandyouwon'tgainweightifyou'reeatingtherightcaloriesbecauseyourbodywillburnthemandnotstorethem,andthenfatactuallyinducesthereleaseoffatfromyourfatcells.Fatactuallycutsyourhungersoyouendupeatinglessanyway.You'renotgoingtoeatsomuchinthecourseofadayanditactuallyhelpswithfatburning,soitspeedsyourmetabolism,releasesfatfromthefatcells,andcutsyourhunger,whichcarbsdoalltheopposite.

Whenyougoincreaseininsulin,it'sananabolichormoneandpushesfatintothefatcells,it


20

reducestheavailablemetabolicfuelinyourbloodstreamsoyou'reallofasudden,you'relike,"Ohmygod,wheredidallthefoodgo?"Yourbodykicksinhunger,itreducesyourmetabolism,it'slikeastarvationresponse,soyoucouldbeeatingatonoffoodandyourbodythinksyou'restarving...Drivingawayfromyourbloodstreamintoyourcells,intoyourfatcellswhicharelikehungryfatcellssoakingupallthesefoodbecauseoftheinsulin,soifyoueatfat,andevenifit'saBulletproof,youdon't.Youjustwon't.

Dave: It'sreallyfunnybecausethereasonthere'snoproteininBulletproofcoffeeisbecauseproteinraisesinsulinalittlebit.There'sjustnosugarinthere.It'sbecauseitraisesinsulin.Whatwouldyoudrinktobefullandhavenoinsulineffect?There'sonlyonechoice.It'sfat,andthenyoupicktherightfat,right?

Mark: Right.

Dave: There'sothercomplexitiesintherebutthebasicthinkingwaslike...YoutalkedtoGaryTaubes,Imethiminlike2008or2007orsomething,like"Thisisamazing,"andyoulookatallthatstuff,itjustseemstomakesensethatcontrollinginsulinisapartoftheequationbutit'snottheonlypart.Whataretheotherbigvariablesintherethatthepeopleshouldthinkaboutwhentheysay,"Oh,fatisgoingtomakeyoufat.Caloriesaregoingtomakeyoufat,"stufflikethat.

Mark: Youlookatallthefactors,right?Youlookatyourgenetics,yourpredispositions,howmuchcarbohydratesyoucanhave,youroverallfiberinyourdiet.If,forexample,inoneoftheWalterWillettstudieswefoundthatin40somethingthousandmen,thosewhohadhighsaturatedfatdietbutlotsoffiberatthesametime,theydidn'thaveanyrisks,soIknewyoucanmitigateyourriskbyactuallylookingatthewholecomplexityofyourdiet.

Dave: Okay.Whatdoyoueatforbreakfast,lunch,anddinneronanaverageday?

Mark: Forbreakfast,Ihave2options,myfavorite2options.Ihaveafatshakewhichistypicallynutsandseeds,soIhavechiaseeds,hemseeds,walnuts,pumpkinseeds,andI'llputinalmondbutter,coconutbutter,andusuallyblueberries,wildsmallblueberries,somecoconutmilkandIblenditupandit'sdelicious.Verydense,highprotein,highfat,verylowsugar.I'llhaveavocadosandsomegreensandthenI'llpouroliveoilonit,sofatonfatonfat.Forlunch,Iwouldhave,myfavoriteisArugula,that'soneofmyfavoritelettuces,whichisalsoinasortofdetoxfamily,andIputon,let'ssaypumpkinseedsorpienutsandIputonolivesandI'llputonavocadosandI'llputonoliveoil,soit'sfatonfatonfatonfat,andasalad,right?I'llputevenacanofsalmon,wildsalmonontheresothere'smoreOmega-3fatsorsardines.

That'sthetypicallunchanddinner.Icouldthrowapieceofprotein.It'smostlyplantfoodsuntildinner.MarkthenI'llhaveeithergrassfedlamb,grassfedbeef,butIdon'teatthatthatmuch,bisonIlike.SometimesI'llhavefish,shrimps,scallops,fish,andlowmercuryfish,andI'llhaveatonofvegetables,soprobably50%ofmyplatewillbevegetablesandIgetunlimitedrefillsonthatside,andthenoccasionally,I'llhaveahalfsweetpotatoandthenmaybefordessert,I'llwhipupsomeblackberrieswithacanofcoconutmilkinthefrozenblackberriesandhavedessert.


21

Dave: I'mcomingtoyourhousebecauseyou'reoneofthefewguyswhoI'dsitdownandwewouldabsolutelyeatthat.

Mark: Yeah,totally.

Dave: Quickquestionon,andthisismaybejustatrivialthing,I'vebeenlookingatchiaseeds.RelativelyhighinOmega-6butalsoveryhighinPhytoestrogens,waymoreofthisvegetableestrogenthansoyprotein.Isthatofconcerntoyou?

Mark: Yeah.IknowthistopicinsideandoutandIthinkthatthiswholeissueofPhytoestrogensissomislabeled.Thesearemodulators,right?It'ssortoflikeathermos,right?Athermosknowswhattodo.Itkeepsyourlemonadecoldinthesummerandyoursouphotinthewinter,right?Thesearemodulators.They'relikeselectiveestrogenreceptormodulatorsthatactuallydon'tstimulateestrogenunlessyoueattheminhugequantitiesandtheyactuallycanprotectyouagainstthedangersofenvironmentalestrogensorXenoestrogens,sothey'reveryprotectiveandIthinkflaxseeds,chiaseeds,wholesoyfoodscanbeveryhelpfulifyouareawomanorevenamanandusingthemtohelpbalancesomeofthehormonalissues.

Whenyoulookatthenegativeeffects,there'sbeenalotofresearchonthisandIcansharewithyoulookingathowtheynegativelyorpositivelyaffectyourthyroidoryoursexhormones,andtherereallyisnoevidencethattherewerereallyaproblem.

Dave: Whenyouawholesoy,doyoumeanEdamameordoyoumeanlikesoy-

Mark: Imeantofu,Imeantraditionalsoyfoods,Tempeh,inamountsthathavebeeneatentraditionally.

Dave: Okay.Inthesmallamount,right.

Mark: Right.It'slikeyouthinkabout,"Woah,tofu'sgood,"butitdoesn'tmeanyoueatit6timesaday,right?

Dave: Youdon'tscrambleitlikeeggsbecauseit'snoteggs,right?

Mark: Right.Havingitintraditionalwaysisreallyimportant,soreallyit'saboutacomplexdiet,it'saboutalotofvariablesthataffectyouandIthinkyoudon'twanttothinkthisisonefoodIshouldhave."It'sgoodsoIshouldhaveatonofit."Youhavetobecareful,butIthinkthewholeissueofPhytoestrogens,I'mnotworriedabout.Ithinktheyknowwhattodoandtheyeitherblocknegativeeffectsofestrogenandtheycanhelpreducetherisk,likeLignansandPhytoestrogenflaccids.Thesehavebeenwellstudied.

Dave: Okay.LignansaresomethingI'mpayingalotofattentiontolately.Tellmealittlebitaboutredmeatandparticularlyfatfromredmeat.Shouldpeoplebeconcernedaboutthis?Ikeepgettingallthevegetarian,"Ahh!You'regoingtodie!Youateredmeat!"Whichsoundslikeso1980'stome.What'syourtakeonredmeat?


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Mark: Welookedatastudythatjustcameoutrecently,probablyyousaw,wheretheyfoundthatorganicorgrassfedmeathave50%moreOmega-3fatsthanfeedlivebeef,butwhenIwrotethebook,IwanttoknowaboutmeatbecauseIhavealotoffriendswhoareveganswhoIloveandalotoffriendswhoarepaleowhoIlove,that'swhyIjoke,IsayI'ma"Pegan,"right?I'mlikeapaleo-vegan.

Dave: Yougotsomuchattentionformakingupthatword.Thatwascool.

Mark: Iknow.It'sreallyfun,andIsaid,"Okay,look,I'mjustgoingtostepback.I'mgoingtotrytosuspendallmypredisposedbeliefs,allmypointsofviewandI'mjustgoingtolookatthescienceandseewhatIcouldfind,andI'mgoingto,attheendoftheday,trytofigureitout."Ireallywanttorealizethatthereare3mainissuesaroundme.Firstismoral,secondisenvironmental,andthethirdishealth,andthey'reseparateandtheygetconflated,right?Theygetconflated,soIthinklet'sjusttakemoralquickly.Moral,I'mgoodwiththat.Peoplehaveareligiousormoralissue.IhaveBuddhistmonksaspatients.I'mnotgoingtosay,"Youneedtoeatmeat,"right?

Ithinkyoucaneat.IhadtheabbotofMenri,itwasthe33rdabbotofMenri,becausefromtheheadoftheBonreligionwasdiabetic,andI'mlike,"You'reeatingallthesesum,"whichisbarley,flourandstuffeverymorning.It'slikeTibetancookiedough.

Dave: Whatagreatdescription.

Mark: Youprobablyhadit,right?

Dave: Ofcourse.

Mark: I'mlike,"Youcan'teatthis."He'slike,"It'smytraditionalfood."I'mlike,"No,no,no.It'syourtraditionalfoodifyou'rein17,000feethurlingtheaxallday,nowyou'resittingonameditationcushionandyou're80yearsold,"sowegothimonahighfat,goodqualityprotein,lotsofvegetables,nutsandseeds,gothimoffalotofstarchandgrains,andhedidgreat.Helost35pounds,worstisdiabetes,soI'mnotopposedtomoralreasons.Environmentalreasons,absolutely.Thisisabigissue.Ithinkfeedlotfarming,factoryfarming,industrialagriculturehastostop.

Dave: Stopeatingthatrightnow.

Mark: Ithastostopbothforhealthreasonsandforenvironmentalreasons.Wearedegradingourenvironmentdramatically.Climatechangeisimpactedthroughmethanefromthecowsinadramaticway,we'reseeingthat1/5ofallthefossilfuelsusedontheplanetisusedforgrowinganimalsforhumanconsumption,industrialagriculture,weseedegradationofourwatersthroughdepletionofaquifers,weseedepletionofthesoilandthesoilisbeingdamagedsothatwerelosingacresandacreseverydayofedibleland,weareactuallyseeingdramaticchangesinthetoxicityinthewateraswell,it'saffectingplantlife,animallife,pesticides,fertilizers,allofthat'sreal,soIthinkfromanenvironmentalpointofview,weshouldimmediatelystopfactoryfarming,andthat'sgoingtolimitmeatconsumptiondramatically,andIthinkthenthere'sthe


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healthissues.

Thenwehaveto...Science.There'speopleonbothsidesgo"Oh,meat'sgoingtokillyouormeat'stheanswertoallofourproblems,"right?There'slikethese2,likewhodoyoubelieve,right?Startlookingtothescience,andIreallylookcarefullyatthisbecauseeverybodywillcherrypickwhattheywantandI'velookedatallofit,sonotjusttheonesthatsupportedmypointofview,right?Ididn'treallyhaveagreatpointofview.I'mlikeIdon'tknow.Iwanttolivetobe120,Iwanttoeattherightstuff,Ibettercheckthisout.

Dave: That'sit?You'rereallyonlyexpecting120?

Mark: Iwassaying150butIthoughtthatwastoomuch.

Dave: I'mat180,okay?I'mgoingtokickyourass.IexpectyoutohavedinnerwithmeandI'm180.You'regoingtohavetobelike212orsomething,butseriously,comeon.

Mark: I'llworkonit.HowaboutwemeetwhenI'm100?Westartthere.

Dave: It'sadeal.

Mark: We'llmeetoveracoupleofBulletproof.Themeatthing,here'sthedealwiththemeatresearch.There'salotofepidemiologicresearchpopulationsthatithasshowedmeatactuallyisharmful,butthenyoulookatwhatthatmeans,solet'slookatwhatthesestudies...Theydofullfrequencyquestionnaires,theyaskwhatyouatelastweek,lastmonth,whatever,yesterday,youkindofhavetoremember,andthendependingonwhatthefatofthedayisyouranswermightbealittlebiasedanyway,soit'snotgreatresearchbutit'sthebestwehave,andthentheytrytocontrolfortheconfoundingfactors.Nowthereisnowayinmyviewtocontrolforconfoundingfactorswhen...

Here'swhatthemeateaterswerelike.Theyeatin800caloriesaday,theyeatfarfewerfruitsandvegetables,theyeatmorefriedfoods,moreprocessedfood,moresugarandrefinedcarbs,theydrinkmore,theysmokemore,theyexerciseless,theynevertookvitamins.Guesswhat?Theywereasickerbunch.Theyhadmoreheartdisease,morecancer,morediabetes,anditwasbad,right?Wasitthemeatorwasitalltherestofthecrap?Ivotefortherestofthecrap.Secondis,sotheyactuallytookpeoplewhowereeatingmeatwhowereactuallyshoppingathealthfoodstorescomparingtovegetarianswhoshopatthehealthfoodstores,andwhentheylookedat11,000peopleovermany,manyyears,theyfoundtherewasabsolutelynodifferencebecauseguesswhat?Themeateaterswereeatingmeatinthecontextofahealthydiet,theyprobablyweren'teatingfeedlotmeat.

Allthesefactorsmatter,andbytheway,themeatinthosestudiesthatIjusttalkedaboutthatshoweditwasharmfulwereallfeedlotfactoryfarmmeatswithhighlevelsofOmega-6,withinflammatorycomponents,lowlevelsofOmega-3's,hormones,antibiotics,pesticides,younameit,soreallyaproblem,andthenIlookattheinterventionalstudies,right?Notjustthepopulationstudies,butlet'slookatwhathappenswhenyouactuallyfeedpeoplemeat.Whathappens?Thesestudiesshowthatonthewhole,peopledowaybetter.Theyhaveless


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inflammation,theircholesterolgetsbetter,theirinsulingetsbetter,theirtriglyceridesgetbetter,theyloseweight,theyhadmorebodymuscle,lessbodyfat.

I'velookedatallthesestudiesinconcert,alltogether,andmyconclusionishavinganimalproteinaspartofyourdietisokayifit'stherightkindandthatifyoudon'thaveamoralobligationtonoteatit,thenthat'sfine,anditshouldn'tbehugeamounts,Idon'tthinkthatpeopleshouldbeeating72ounceT-bonesteaks,itshouldbethepalmofyourhand,andit'sthepalmofyourhand,notShaquilleO'Neal'shand,right?NotShaquilleO'Neal'shand,right?Ialsohavetorealizethatwecanthinkofmeatmoreasacondiment.Icallit"Condi-meat,"right?Condi-meat.

Dave: Excessiveproteinvegetableorplantormeatisactuallyinflammatoryandraiseinsulin,right?There'snotabenefiteatinglotsofmeat.

Mark: Yes.Weneedabout30gramspermealinordertoactuallyhelpwithproteinsynthesis,muscleformationandsoforth.Littleisgoodbuttoomuch,you'reright,itactuallycausessomethingcalled"Gluco..."Thepartthatyoudon'tmakeintomuscle,youturnintosugar.Ihaveafriendwho'satype1diabetic..."Man,ifIeattoomuchprotein,Ineedtotakealotofinsulin,"right?

Dave: Right.

Mark: She'sactuallydoingastudyofabout1300type1diabeticsonaKetogenicdiettoseehowgreattheycancontrolit.SheshowedmeherbloodsugarandI'mlike,"Ohmygod."She'sadoctor.We'regoingtohaveagreattimewiththis.

Dave: IjusthadaBulletprooffollowerwhosentmeherimplantablebloodglucosemeter,she'satype1diabeticwhousesBulletproofcoffee.She'slike,"Well,Ijusthaveanewthingbroughtin.Iknowyou'llhavefunplayingwiththisbecauseItotallyreducedmyinsulinlikesomethingby80%justbyswitchingtoaKetogenicdiet."It'sremarkable.

Mark: Right.It'samazing.Inmybook,IviewedalltheresearchIcouldandIbasicallyfoundtherewasabout8.000wordsIhadto...Inthebookonmebecauseheansweredhisquestion,soIreallytookahardstabatit.

Dave: Thankyoufordoingthat.

Mark: EatFat,GetThinjustsummarizesalltheresearchthatIcouldfindtogivetheanswersofwhattheheckshouldIeatandwhatfats,whatkindoffoodshouldbegood,andwhat'sthestoryonallthesedifferentfatsbecauseeverybody'ssoconfused.

Dave: Allright.Bulletprooflisteners,nowyouknowwhyMarkisontheshowtoday.Youneedtogooutthere.PickupacopyofEatFat,GetThin.IfyoulikedtheBulletproofdiet,ifyou'repaleo,evenifyou'reveganandyoulistentothisjustsoIcanmakeyoumadwhenItellyouthatyoushouldeatsomemeat,whateverthedealis,thereisawealthofknowledgeinthis.It'sverywellresearched.Ifyoulistentothisconversation,youknowMarkisagoodguy,heknowswhathe'stalkingabout,he'salsoincrediblywellcredentialed,likeClevelandClinicisoneofthetopclinics


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inthecountry,soifyou'regoingtoreadbookslikethis,readMark'sbook.ReadAlwaysHungrybyDavidLudwigwho'soneofMark'sfriendswho'sjustonBulletproofradio.

Thisisimportantstuffandit'sallgoingtoleadyouinthesamegeneraldirection.Eatlesstoxiccrap,eatmoreoftherightkindsoffat,andeatatonofvegetables.It'snotthathard,andthere'snuancesandthere'slotsofwaysyoucantuneandtweak,andyoucanbeahighperformanceracecar,oryoucanjustbeadailydriver,aHonda,butyou'regoingtobealotbetterthanthebrokendownwreckthatyoumighteitherareorthatyouareonyourwaytobecomingifyou'renotdoingthiskindofstuff.Thisisjustfundamentaltobeinghuman.

Mark: It'ssotrue,David,it'ssotrue.Ithinkthatthekeythingpeopledon'trealize,it'snotjustaboutweightloss,right?WhenIdidthethousandpeopleinbetatest,notonlydidtheyobviouslyloseweightandtheirbloodpressuredroppeddramatically,theirbloodsugardropped23points,butwehadthemfillwhatIcall"TheFLCquiz,"sojustwhenyoufeellikecrapquiz.Peoplearelike,"DoIhaveasinusproblem,"jointpain,headaches,insomnia,bloating,fatigue,whateveritis,andwegivethemascore,it'slikeaquantitativequizandattheendoftheday,theytakethescoreafterthe21daysandtheyhada68%reductioninallsymptomsfromalldiseases.There'snodrugontheplanetthatcanreduceyourchronicdiseasesymptomsby68%in10or21days,whichbothofmyprogramshavedone.It'sprettyamazing.

Iwouldsaythere'snomorepowerfuldrugintheuniversethanwhatyouputattheendofyourfork.

Dave: Verywellsaid.Mark,there'safinalquestionontheshow.

Mark: Yes.

Dave: Ifsomeonecametoyoutomorrow,youdon'tknowanythingaboutthemandtheysaid,"Mark,IwanttokickassateverythingIdoinlife.Iwanttobeabetterhumanbeing.Whatarethe3mostimportantthingsIneedtoknow?"Whatwouldyousay?

Mark: Eatwholefood,moveyourbody,andconnecttoyourheartandlove.

Dave: Thereyougo.WellsaidandthankyouforbeingaguestonBulletproofRadio.Thanksforbeingafriendandjustthankyoufordoingyourwork,man.

Mark: Thanks.

Dave: You'restandingup,you'refighting,it'sanenormousbacklogofcrapthat'sbeenbuiltup,it'sabeliefsystemthatisn'tbasedonscienceorreason,butittakesalotofcourageandenergytostanduptoitandIlovewatchingyoudowhatyoudo,soyoushouldkeepitup.Thankyou.

Mark: Thankyou.I'mnotstopping.

Dave: Good.Don'tstop.


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Mark: Thanks,Dave.

Dave: Ifyouappreciatedthisepisode,youknowwhattodo.Headonovertoeatfatgetthin.com,headovertoAmazonandpickupacopyofMarkHyman'sbook,EatFat,GetThin.It'sgotmyfullendorsement.It'sawonderfulbookandit'sfullofsciencethattellsyouwhyyououghttobedoingthesethings,andifyouhaveconcerns,ifyouhavequestions,they'llprobablybeaddressedinthebook,andifnot,headonovertotheBulletproofforums,headonovertoMark'swebsite.Youcanaskquestionsthere.Thepointthereisit'snotjustalonevoiceinthewilderness,it'snotjustthepaleocommunity,it'snotjustvegancommunity,there'sallkindsofevidenceputtingthisout.

Theevidencehasbeenhereforalongtimeandnoone'stalkedaboutitandyoudon'thavechangedallthat,sopickupthestuff,learn,andcheckitout,andwhileyou'reatit,subscribeandgetsomeBulletproofCoffeebecausehey,[crosstalk01:07:21],right?Haveagreatday.

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