talking heads - glenn murcutt

8/3/2019 Talking Heads - Glenn Murcutt

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Screened: 02/06/2008

Transcripts

Glenn Murcutt

Glenn Murcutt is the closest thing to a truly Australian architect. In 2002 he became

the first Australian to win the Pritzker Prize, the world’s most prestigiousarchitectural award.

Murcutt is best known for his simple but complex houses, built from timber,corrugated iron, and louvred glass, tailored to respond to their unique position inan environmentally sound way. On Talking Heads Glenn Murcutt discusses a

childhood in Papua New Guinea contributed to an architectural philosophy, basedon observation of the environment.

GLENN MURCUTT What are the three most important things in life? The first one'ssimplicity. Second one, simplicity. And, of course, the third one's simplicity.

PETER THOMPSON Here we are in the Adelaide Hills and this house seems to bea simple, even modest home in the Australian bush. But it contains some of theradical ideas that have made Glenn Murcutt the closest thing to a truly Australianarchitect. Glenn Murcutt is this week's Talking Head. Glenn Murcutt, welcome toTalking Heads.

GLENN MURCUTT Pleasure.

PETER THOMPSON Now, here we are, sitting just outside your brother's house in

ABC1 Monday 6:30pm





the Adelaide Hills and it's just gone though this record heatwave, so how did itstand up?

GLENN MURCUTT Well, the University of Adelaide have shown that when thetemperature's 42 outside, the temperature inside is 25 degrees. And you can open

up the whole house at night time, let it cool down, and during the day time, closedown. And we have dark walls, but we've shaded them at this time of the year, so

the sunlight is keeping off the walls, whereas in wintertime, the sunlight hits thosewalls and radiates the warmth, so it's not that complicated.

PETER THOMPSON I might be tempted to call this a style, but you'd object to that,

wouldn't you?

GLENN MURCUTT Well, a style doesn't have any depth of principles behind it. Astyle, you can do this or do that or do something else. This is nothing to do withthat. This is understanding where the orientation is, it's understanding where the

cooling winds come from, it understands that you produce the bedroom at theeastern end because by the time the sun's gone to the western end, it's heating upenormously, the bedroom cools down. And you get verandas on the south, you getverandas on the north and so you design it so that you've got your winter sunpenetration and exclusion of your summer sun to the house. And you work this

house and you work most of my buildings like you sail a yacht. You have to workthem so that you understand how to get the best out of the climate without havingto aircondition.

PETER THOMPSON Now, I can see that style wasn't quite the word I should haveused. If you agreed to take me on as your client, would I need millions of bucks?

GLENN MURCUTT No, first of all, I'd be taking you and then your partner or anyassociated person with you.

PETER THOMPSON The whole family?

GLENN MURCUTT The whole family would need to be understood here. So it'snot just you.

PETER THOMPSON I suppose... but you're a famous architect. I'd be working withyour underlings, wouldn't I?

GLENN MURCUTT No, I have no underlings. I'm a sole practitioner.

PETER THOMPSON Well, I'd at least be talking to your secretary, wouldn't I?

GLENN MURCUTT No secretary. No secretary, no staff.

PETER THOMPSON Well, what's your mobile phone number?





GLENN MURCUTT I don't have one. So I'm sorry, I... I'm difficult to get hold of. Iknow I'm very difficult to get hold of. But those who are really serious about wantingto get hold of me, whether they be here in Adelaide or Sydney or New York, theyeventually know how to get hold of me. They're the people you need to know.

PETER THOMPSON Let's find out where this odyssey of Glenn Murcutt began.

GLENN MURCUTT We grew up in the highlands of New Guinea on the Upper Watut River. The lower end of the highlands, a very wild place with hugegrasslands of kuni grass, huge rainforests. We were the only family within about

15km where we lived as Europeans. The rest of the people were Papua NewGuineans and they cared for us, they played with us, they taught us pidgin. SoPidgin English was my first language. And a gypsy moth would fly only, probably,30 metres above the ground and throw out our mail and food, as well. Christmascakes, the lot, came by air.

In those forests live the Kuka Kuka people. And the Kuka Kukas were just below1.5 metres in height. The kuni grass was 1.5 metres and, of course, you'd seethem... see this little snakelike thing coming down through the grasses and youknew that was trouble ahead. Terribly frightening time. And it gave me a sense of

fear, all my childhood, the evening, the darkness was when it would strike. Andthat fear lasted a long time.

During 1942, we had to get out of New Guinea very fast. And the Japanese hadarrived. When I arrived in Sydney, of course, totally different environment. Wecame from lush environment, racing water, all black people to this monoculture of

white people... where the postman came not by air, but by foot... with a bag over his shoulder, blowing a whistle. My parents thought that they wouldn't send me toschool until I could speak English. So I started school when I was about eight.

I grew up in a family of five siblings. We had seven pianos in the house and in the

mornings and evenings, the noise was terrible. And to concentrate was very hard. I

found silence by leaving the house and I had set up in the bush a place where Icould sit and draw and think quietly. That was my real reclusive place. From aboutthe age of 13, my father took me on the hillside of Clontarf and examined theAngophora costatas. At the top of the hill, we could see the nutrients were far less,the trees were smaller, the leaf structure was smaller. As we went down the

hillside, the structure was greater, trees were larger, nutrients were higher. And it'sbeen with me for the rest of my life, understanding of place and it guided me in thedesign of my architecture.

I set about designing my own aeroplanes. I learnt how air moved and why a winggave lift. We built a boat together, a racing skiff. It was a great experience,because sailing teaches you about wind, it teaches you about water and how youcan capitalise on tides, how you can capitalise on wind pressure increases, all





those things. So the junction of flight and boats has stood with me all my life. As myfather was bringing in 'Architectural Forum's, he insisted that I read the principlesunderlying the designs of many works. And from the time I was 15 onwards, Idecided I wanted to become an architect.

PETER THOMPSON Your dad seems to be quite a character.

GLENN MURCUTT Indeed. He was an amazing man in most ways. Verydetermined, he was the driving force in the family. He was very, very instructive allthe time. Could never get away from him. Silence was so, so beautiful when onegot it.

PETER THOMPSON Well, part of this personality was to be a bit of a tyrant as wellin terms of the expectations on you and your siblings.

GLENN MURCUTT He was a tyrant. His expectations of himself and the level of

survival he had to undertake to survive in Papua New Guinea was so great that hesaw life for any child in Australia was absolutely living on the cushion.

PETER THOMPSON These people you lived among had a very evocative name.

GLENN MURCUTT Yeah. We lived amongst the Kuka Kuka people, now knownas the Manyamia people. Um... at that time, fearsome people. And they actuallyattacked - now, at the time, we thought this was just terrible - and they killed... they

killed a local German man by the name of Boem up there. They... they ate him andput his head on the airfield in Surprise Creek...

PETER THOMPSON You saw that?

GLENN MURCUTT We were told about this as children. And we'd be very careful.You've got to be very, very careful what you're doing, keep your eye open. You'vegot to observe, you've got to smell. Look, hear, smell. So the senses were very,

very acutely developed for... almost like the way an animal's senses are developed

for survival.

PETER THOMPSON Well, that's what's marked out your architecture, years andyears later, that acute sense of... the senses.

GLENN MURCUTT It has had a huge impact. Observation has been my biglearning tool. To observe what the sunlight is like, where it's coming from, whereit's going to, what angle is it at, what shadow pattern is coming? Look at the trees,look at the way the light separates the elements in the landscape.

PETER THOMPSON You somehow decide by the age of 15 that the path you'regoing to take is architecture. What made that clear to you?





GLENN MURCUTT Um... my father made it very clear to me. He brought in'Architectural Record' and 'Architectural Forum', both American journals. And hewould find a very interesting article or a very interesting building and he'd give it tome and say, "Son, read this." And you'd say, "Oh, jeez, you know, I'd rather beplaying outside than reading this." And I'd have to read it. And then he'd sit down

and challenge me about it and say, "What about this? This question, why is it off the ground? Why is this building all glass?" You knew unless you got that answer,

you would have to read the article again. And so it all of a sudden brought aninterest about the underlying principles of buildings, of all sorts of buildings. Andthat I then began to find fascinating. But he knew I could deal with the ideas that hewas articulating, what were in the journals and he could see that I might do well in

architecture.

PETER THOMPSON Glenn, failures are often more telling than successes and atuniversity you failed a big subject, Sunshine and Shade.

GLENN MURCUTT It's the only subject I had to repeat. I did a couple of posts, butI think I might be one of the few people that might have learnt something aboutsunshine and shade. It became a very, very integral part of my thinking.

PETER THOMPSON Well, soon after you married Helen, you went overseas to

Europe to experience a whole new world of architecture.

GLENN MURCUTT In 1962, I travelled to Europe, worked in London, lived, finally,

in the Greek Islands for six months altogether. I realised that the limitation of materials and the use of form and light were absolutely critical to understandingarchitecture. I also learnt what it was to be in a courtyard, to be with a group of

people and to be in this courtyard surrounded entirely by walls with this beautifullight, beautiful food. I said, "This is life. This is architecture." I went up to the wholeNordic region. I experienced the work of some Swedish architects, Danisharchitects, the work of Utzon. And then on to see Aalto's work, which was just, for me, an opening up of the possibilities. He was an architect, a man who actually

worked with the land and not against it.

I love living in Europe. I decided I was going to live in England and, tragically, amember of my wife's family was killed, our first son was born, Nicholas, and wesaid, "OK, let's pack up and go back to Australia," much before I was ready tocome back. I felt very down about it. On the other hand, I worked in a very good

office, Ancher, Mortlock, Murray and Woolley's. But, in a way, I realise I becameunemployable because I had a different thing going inside me and I realised that Ihad to do it myself.

In 1969, I realised it was time for me to enter practice. Nine months after I was inpractice, my brother realised that I didn't have much work on and he came to meand he said, "It would be really nice if you would design a house for us." Thathouse was followed immediately by a house for Laurie Short. Both these buildings





received recognition. And then, doing the mother's house, Marie Short. The houseat Crescent Head, Kempsey area, was a turning point in my career. Marie said thatshe was going to possibly move the house to another site with the sameorientation. So I had to design that it could be disassembled. What I realised in anarea like Kempsey, where tank bending was a norm, I was able to actually roll the

roof. And because I was able to roll it, I was able to get that, in a sense, airfoilsection like that of an aircraft wing that gives the lift. So that roof, in fact, is lifting,

pulling the air out. I don't know of any roof that was like that up to that time.

PETER THOMPSON In a short-hand way, some people might say your architecture's environmental architecture, but it's not... not quite the expression

you'd use to describe it, is it?

GLENN MURCUTT It is about environment. But it's taking into account wherematerials come from, the true costs, to understand that timber is a very marvellousmaterial. It's a renewable resource. It takes only five megajoules of energy to

process a kilogram of timber. It's just marvellous. A kilogram of aluminium, for example, takes 143 megajoules of energy. Hugely different. So it allows you toproportion the use of materials in a building, put things together in a way you canpull apart and reuse them. That's a... that's a really important area, so we don'thave the loss of materials. I've been thinking about that for a long time.

PETER THOMPSON You had a trade-off to make and you made it pretty early onin your career and that was would you work with others as part of a team and a

partnership - and you did that for a few years - or would you go your own way?And the way you took would have been very difficult for you to actually be yourself in a partnership.

GLENN MURCUTT I'm headstrong. And yet, a lot of people don't realise that. Theysee a more gentle side, often and don't quite realise that when I'm determined, I amvery determined. And if I think something is not reasonable, I'm not prepared to dothat. If a council refuses my design that I think is reasonable, has a complete logic

to it, I will negotiate as far as I can go. But then it's sudden death. Straight... straight

to the Land and Environment Court. I won't take any more mucking aroundbecause I don't... I can't take the mucking around. It just drives me mad that I'mdealing with people that simply don't understand. So, I don't call myself anenvironmental architect. But I'm certainly interested in the environment.

PETER THOMPSON What did your dad say about you going alone inarchitecture?

GLENN MURCUTT Yes, um... it was in his last year of life. And it was very lucky

for me that he was still alive at the time. Um... he said to me, "Son, now that you'reentering your practice, you must remember to start off the way you would like tofinish. "And for every compromise you make in your work, and you knowinglymake in your work, you must remember the result represents the quality of your





next client." Which was very significant pieces of advice. My career has beenbeleaguered by councils and, in particular, the planning department. I remember,in one case, where it was argued that the house didn't harmonise with thebuildings in the area. Well, if you think of the word 'harmony,' harmony is disparatesounds when placed together make a pleasing whole. Are they asking me for

harmony or are they, in fact, asking me for monotony? We like to put a building inthe middle of the site and have all this ground all the way around it. We are much

better off if we can open up so that we can get rooms on the southern part of a site,for example, that get a northern light through a courtyard. And in summer time, youcan bring shade devices over this. This is entirely logical. But to get this throughcouncil requires incredible effort. These obstacles all the way. And the only way

that one gets out of these is to go to the farm, where I get silence. Walking in theforests of the farm, going for a swim at Smokey Cape. To walk in the landscape isgreat peaceful time. It's wonderful. And just to be in my own head designing, eventhough it's frustrating at times and anxious-making, it is nevertheless the silencethat I really need. I designed a house for Jenny Kee in Blackheath. And Bunduk

Marika had become a friend of Jenny's. "Oh," she said, "I love Jenny's house." Shesaid, "It is a healthy building. Would you consider designing a house for me oneday?"

PETER THOMPSON It'll probably feel more at home having to be exposed to that

environmental connection.

GLENN MURCUTT I went three or four times - sometimes up to about eight days -

where we went out bush. I learnt to live on bush tucker. It was an extraordinaryexperience for me. To teach students internationally is wonderful, with receptiveminds, questioning minds. There are no restrictions on you except your own

perception. Teaching makes one a better architect, in my view. One has toarticulate one's ideas and be clear about it. ..concentrated program over the nextfour days. I've been teaching in Yale and UCLA and Seattle and Dublin andSydney. And I've also been teaching in Papua New Guinea several times. Andspeaking a little pidgin, again, gave me a very distinct connection back with the

people. And it really did feel like I belonged.

PETER THOMPSON Going back to PNG also resolved a few other things for you,like your lifelong fear of the dark.

GLENN MURCUTT I... here I was, all my life, 'til I was 50 years of age, a fear of the

dark. Remember, I did my course at night time and I had to walk 1.5 km fromSeaforth down to Clontarf Beach through the bush in very dimly lit path and I wasterrified, absolutely terrified. And it wasn't until I went back to New Guinea I realisedwhat it was and I was able to handle that. And now I've got no difficulty at all. But it

was Papua New Guinea that gave it to me and it also taught me what it was and Iwas able to deal with it after that.

PETER THOMPSON It also explains why you spend most of the night working, of





course.

GLENN MURCUTT (Laughs) Maybe.

PETER THOMPSON You won the big Oscar, the big Nobel Prize for architecture,

the Pritzker Prize. How did you feel when... when you picked up the phone andwere told that?

GLENN MURCUTT Oh, I... I didn't believe it. I said, "Look, some of my friendswould do this to me. How would I know? You're just... somebody on the end of thephone, could ring up and say, 'You're the recipient of this year's Pritzker Prize'."

And so I said, "There's no way I can take you seriously on this." He said, "Well,look, I don't know how to convince you. You've got to take me seriously." And all of a sudden, I go into a cold sweat and I thought, "This guy might be right."

PETER THOMPSON Why was it such a shock?

GLENN MURCUTT Well, look, I've been practicing for a long time by myself veryquietly, in a sense, in backwater in a way that's remote. I mean, nobody moresurprised than me, I'm sure, and probably many architects pretty surprised, too.That's alright.

PETER THOMPSON There's another architect, a Spanish architect, Jose AntonioCoderch who was really quite important for you.

GLENN MURCUTT The Spaniards say he was a very tough man. To me, he wasust so gentle. And he said... we got into conversation about all sorts of areas - of

religion, of, of what was happening in music today and architecture was significantdiscussion, of course. And he said to me, he said, "I must tell you, I am 62 and withevery new building, I am still very nervous. I am very anxious." That was, to me, atotal release of my innermost fears that I saw, all around me, all my peers, with thegreatest of confidence designing this work and I think, "Jesus, I'm so nervous

about it all." He also said to me, "I tell my students you must put into your work,

first, effort, secondly, love and finally - and I must say, very Catholic Spanish -suffering."

I feel very comfortable practising the way I do. I feel very comfortable about nothaving staff. I find it very difficult to say, "I don't think it's good enough. Do it better,"

and I tend to get angry and I don't like that side of me. So I decided a long time agothat if I'm going to expand at all, I will take on an equal collaboration with those for whom I have enormous respect.

Over the years, Wendy Lewin, also an architect, had collaborated on a number of projects with me. It wasn't until the late '90s that we came together, we married andwe continue to run our practices separately. Today, I don't make any models. It'sall done through eye, hand, thinking and drawing. When I am thinking and I'm




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drawing by hand, I've arrived at where I was going before I've realised I've arrived.That's not the same with a stencil or a computer. It's entirely different.

Of course, the Pritzker Prize has had an immense impact on me, personally, mylife and the people around me. Just how fortunate can one be? In the first year, of

course, you are subjected to literally hundreds and hundreds of phone calls fromvarious agencies wanting to do something. It meant that I couldn't get my work

done. I'm, all the time, in anxiety. I mean, my life is one of anxiety, anxiety, anxiety. Idon't know how to control that, so the Pritzker's made it worse, in that sense. But,at another level, what a wonderful thing to have happened in one's life.

PETER THOMPSON Glenn, in all those years of practice, what's given you mostsatisfaction?

GLENN MURCUTT Well, 39 years of practice, I've met so many clients and all of them, without exception - maybe one or two exceptions - I can say it'd be

wonderful to see them again and to be able to know that our friendships have beendeveloped through my being their architect in that process.

PETER THOMPSON Thanks for taking us through the contours of your life. It'sbeen great.

GLENN MURCUTT Thank you, Peter, very much.

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