Speaker1: BulletproofRadio,astateofhighperformance.

DaveAsprey: Today'sepisodeisfantastic.You'regoingtowanttolistenthroughallthewaytotheend,becauseyou'regoingtolearnhowaguywhocreatedacompanyworthabilliondollars,like,wentinsidehishead.You'lllearnabouthisstruggles,andhehasreal,actionableadviceforyouintoday'sshow.Whenyoulistenallthewaythrough,you'regoingtohearaboutthestoryofthecreationofthevalue,butwhatdoesagrowthmindsetmeantoyou,andhowdoyouturniton?

You'lllearnabouthowtolearnfromotherpeople.You'regoingtolearnaboutwhatself-esteemdoes,howidentifyingtherightanswerreallymatters,andyou'regoingtolearnhowbeingrightallthetimeistoxictoyoubeingasuccessfulhumanbeing,notjustinbusiness,butjustinlife.You'lllearnabouthowyoushouldavoiddoingthingsthathelpyoumoveawayfromyourgoals,andthere'saspecificmeaningtothatyou'llpickup.Finally,you'regoingtolearnsomereallycoolmindsethacksfromaguywho'sspentalotoftimeworkingonhisownmindsettobecomeassuccessfulasheis.Alongtheway,I'mgoingtotellyouafewthingsaboutmyownbackgroundthatyouprobablydon'tknow.Thisisanepisodethatyou'lltotallywanttotuneinfortheentiretime.

You'relisteningtoBulletproofRadiowithDaveAsprey.Today'scoolfactofthedayissomethingthatyou'reprobablygoingtolike,andit'sthatsomenewresearchsaysthatsexisactuallygoodforyou,atleastifyou'reover50,andprobablyifyou'reunder50.Researchhasfoundthatin50to83yearoldswhohadmoreregularsexscoredhigherontestsmeasuringverbalfluency.Theywerebetterabletoperceiveobjectsandthespacesbetweenthem,andthat'smakingscientistslookathowneurotransmitterslikedopamineandoxytocincaninfluencetherelationshipbetweenhowoftenyouhavesexandhowwellyourbrainworks.Inthemeantime,Iwillcontinuetoexperimentdiligently.

Beforewegetintotoday'sepisode,ifyouhaven'thadachancetocheckouttheBulletproofCoffeevarietypack,you'vegottadothisonline,andhere'swhy.We'vegotsomeofthere.Ifyou'rewatchingonYouTube,yougotoBulletproof.com/YouTubetofindthechannel.TherearethreedifferentflavorsofBulletproofCoffeenow,notcountingdecaf,andmycurrentfavoriteisMentalist.Thisisamediumdarkroast.We'vegotTheOriginal,whichisamediumroast,andwe'vegotFrenchKick,whichisadarkroastthatdoesn'tsuck.Mostdarkroastsarejustterrible.

Foralloftheseroasts,we'veworkedwiththeguywhotrainstheCupofExcellencejudgesondialingintheroastparameterstogetthemperfect.However,lotsofpeoplehavegoodroasting.What'simportantiswhatgoesintotheroaster,andtherewe'vegotspecialprocessingofgreencoffeebeansinawaythat'scalledtheBulletproofprocess,thateliminatestheformationoftoxins.Weindependentlylabtestourcoffeesfor27differenttoxinsthatourprocessisdesignedtominimize.Theseareallsingleorigin,grownathighaltitudes,RainforestAlliancecertified,andofcoursethey'reguaranteedfresh.Ifyoulikethisstuff,I'dloveitifyou'djustsendaTweetouttoBPNutritionorany

oftheothersocialmediachannels,andsay,"Hey,thisstuffisgood."Butifyouhaven'ttriedthethreeroasts,orderthevarietyback,savealittlebitofmoney,andwhatyou'regoingtofindisthatsomeoftheseareamazing,somearegoodforespresso,andsomeofthesearejustgoingtobetheonethatyoudialinforyourflavorprofile.Noneoftheseareblends.Wedon'tjustbuycoffeesatabigauctionthewaymostcompaniesdo.Thesearecarefullyprocessedfromsoiltocup,andyou'llfeelthedifferenceineverysingledaythatyoudrinkthem.

Allright.Ifyouliketheshow,there'ssomethingyoucandoaswell.IfyouheadtoBulletproof.com/iTunes,that'lltakeyoustraighttotheiTunespage,andyoucanjustgorightthereandleaveafive-starreviewthatsays,"Hey,thisshowisawesome,andhere'swhatIlikeaboutit."Whenyoudothat,Iseeit,andeveryoneelseknowsthattheshowwasworthwatching.We'realmostupto2,000reviews,andI'msogratefulifyoutakefivesecondstogotoBulletproof.com/iTunes.Justtelltheworldthatmorethan400episodesofthis,thatIdon'tknowhowmanythousandsofhoursgointothat,butit'sheretosharethebestknowledgefrompeoplewhoarefascinating.

Speakingoffascinating,interesting,disruptivepeople,today'sguestisaguyImetacoupleofyearsago,andsomeoneI'veadmiredquitealot,andsomeoneyou'veprobablyheardof.HisnameisTomBilyeu.He'stheco-founderofacompanycalledQuestNutrition,whichisoneofthosethingscalledaunicornstartup,whichisastartupthatgetstobeworthmorethanabilliondollars.Thismangrewhiscompanyby57,000%inhisfirstthreeyears,whichiseasyifyourfirstyearis$1revenue,Tom.Igotyourstatisticsthere.Still,it'sprettyimpressive.NumbertwoontheInc.500FastestGrowingCompaniesintheUSin2014,andacoupleyearsagoTomstartedImpactTheoryalongwithhiswife.There,heteachespeoplehowtodevelopthemindsetofsuccess,andhiswholepointthereisyoucanhackthroughthematrix,youcanbreakoutofthismindsetwhereyou'resortofstuck.

WhenImetTom,itwasattheXPRIZEInnovationBoard,andifyouarefamiliarwiththeXPRIZE,thisiswhatlaunchedtheprivatetravelofspace.Like,privatespaceexplorationhappenedbecauseofPeterDiamandis'workwiththeXPRIZE.There'saboardofdirectorsthere,andI'mnotontheboardofdirectors,butIwasluckyenoughtobeinvitedtositinonaboardmeeting,andTomandIgotachancetochatandmeeteachother,whichwasparticularlycool.ItwasnicethatPeterputustogether,andnowit'sachanceforyoutolearnfromTomabouttheprinciples,the25principlesbehindImpactTheory,andbehindjusttheamazingsuccesshe'shadinhislife.

Tom,welcometotheshow.

TomBilyeu: Thankyou,man.It'sgoodtobehere.

DaveAsprey: Allright.Hopefullythatintrowasgoodforyou.Imean,IkindoffeellikeImighthave-

TomBilyeu: Dude,thatwas[crosstalk].

DaveAsprey: IthinkImighthavelikemaybeglossedoversomeofthethings,butbasicallyyou'refromabusinessperspective,andjustasahumanbeing,likeyou'reprettymuchabadass,soI'mhappytohaveyouontheshow.

TomBilyeu: Wow.Thankyou,man.No,theintrowasverygenerous,soIappreciateit.

DaveAsprey: Iwanttotalkaboutyourlife,andthere'salotoftimeswhenI'minterviewingmaverickscientists,andwe'regoingreallydeeponstufflikethat.Iwanttoknowwhathappenedbetweenyourearswiththiskindofsuccess.Wheredidyoustartoutbeforeyou,quote,"brokethroughyourownmatrix"andstartedthisbilliondollarcompany,anddidsomeoftheotherthingsyou'vedone?Justgivemeyouroriginmyth.

TomBilyeu: Yeah.It'snotcoolatall.Iwasraisedtobeagoodemployee,tokeepmyheaddown,doaslittleworkaspossible,andavoidpunishmentatallcosts.Ididthat,wasverydiligentatthat,andIhadambitions,butIdidn'treallyhavethedriveneededtofigureouttheskillsetsthatIwaslackingtogetthere.Iverymuchhadafixedmindset.Ithoughtthatmytalentandintelligencewerefixedtraits.TherewasreallynothingIcoulddo,andlifewasreallyaboutoptimizingforwhatIhad,notaskingthequestion,"Howhardareyouwillingtoworktoacquireanewsetofskills?"

Filmschoolreallychangedthingsforme,becauseIthought...ThewaythattheybreakitupatUSCisyourfirsttwoyearsareatheoryandgeneraleducation,andIhadn'tyetbeenacceptedtofilmschool,andIwenttooneofthepeopleontheacceptancecommittee,andIsaid,"WhatdoIneedtodotogetin?"Theysaid,"Getgoodgrades."Fortwoyears,Ilockedmyselfinmydormroom.Ididn'tparty.Ididn'tdrink.Ididn'tgoondates.Nothing.Iliterallyjustworked.IgotthegradesthatIneeded,gotintofilmschool,andthenthenexttwoyears,forthefirstyearandahalfIdidverywell.Ibegantogetsomerecognitionwithintheschoolforhavingtalent,whateverthatmeans,andgotselectedinthelasthalfofmysenioryeartodirectaseniorthesis,whichonlyfourpeoplegettodo,soit'saverybigdeal.

Icrashedandburned.Imadetheworstmovieever,andreallygotslappedinthefacewiththefactthatIhaveabsolutelynotalentasafilmmaker.ThatwassoemotionallydestructivethatIreallybegantosearchforanewideologicalsystemthatwouldjustgivemereprievefromfeelingsobadlyaboutmyself,andveryfortunatelyIfoundmyselfteachingfilm,andinteachingit,notonlywasIneedingtolearnjusttoputtogetheracoherentclass,butalsointeachingsomething,youenduplearningaboutityourself.AsI'mteachingthesestudentsandI'mrealizing,"Okay,they'reactuallybetterattheendoftheclassthantheywereatthebeginningbecauseofthefeedbackandthethingsthattheylearned,soclearlyit'spossibleforthemtoimprove.Isitpossibleformetoimprove?Andifso,howmuch?"Thatreallybeganmyjourneyofbecomingabetterfilmmaker,ratherthanjusttryingtoprovethatIalreadywasagoodfilmmaker.

Look,it'sveryeasytomythologize.Thetruthis,itwasjustaverybrutalsortofstumblingprocessofreadingalot,andbeginningtoencounterwhatnowiscalledagrowthmindset,butwhenIstartedallofthis,CarolDweckhadn'twrittenherbookyet,sononeofthatverbagewasaround,orcertainlyIhadneverencounteredit.

WhileIwasteaching,Imetthesetwoguys,verysuccessfulentrepreneurs.Theywereabouttostartatechnologycompany,andtheysaid,"Look,you'recomingtotheworldwithyourhandout.Ifyoureallywanttomakefilmsandyouwanttodoityourway,andyouwanttocontroltheart,you'regonnahavetogetrich."Theysaid,"Whydon'tyoucometoworkforus,beacopywriter,butdon'tthinkofyourselflikeacopywriter.Thisisastartup.Youcanhaveanyjobyouwant.Youjusthavetobecometherightpersonforthejob."ThatreallyputmeintoamindsetacceleratorwhereIwasaroundotherpeoplethatbelievedtothecoreoftheirbeingyoucanchangeanyaspectofyourselfthatyouwant.Youcangetbetter.Youcanidentifytheskillsthatyoulack,andifyou'rewillingtoputintheworktoacquirethoseskills,thenyoucandoanything.

Thatbegana15-yearentrepreneurialjourneythatsawmestartasacopywriter,ultimatelyworkmywaytochiefmarketingofficer,begiven10%ownershipinthattechnologycompanyjustthroughsheerequity,sweatequity,andthenlongstoryshort,Iwentthroughatotalemotionalcrisis,wasjustchasingmoney,becamesoprofoundlyunhappythatIsaid,"Ican'tkeepdoingthis.IfI'mgoingtostayinbusiness,it'sgoingtohavetobesomethingthat'spredicatedondeliveringvalue,wherewe'rebeingauthentic,wherewe'rereallyengagingwithourcommunity,creatingsomethingthat'ssupportive."Thiswasbackin2009,sopeoplejustweren'ttalkinglikethatbackthen.Nobodyreallyunderstoodhowtousesocialmedia,andwhenwesaid...Becausetheybothagreed.Mytwopartnersagreed,andtheysaid,"Okay.Ifwe'regonnadothis,whatissomethingthatthethreeofuswouldlovedoingeveryday,evenifwewerefailing?"

Forthreeverydifferentreasons,thatledustonutrition,whichIwantedtosavemymomandmysister.Igrewupinamorbidlyobesefamily,andbynow,Ibelieveinmyselfasanentrepreneur,IbelievethatIcangetanyskillthatIneedto,andI'mreallylookingattheproblem,theglobalpandemicofillhealthandmetabolicdisease,andjustreallyworkingbackwardsfromthat,andsaying,"Tellingpeopletoeatlessandexercisemoreisnotawinningformula."You'vetalkedveryprofoundlyabout,youknow,itwasn'tamoralfailingofyours.Youwereworkingyourassoff.Youwereeatinglessthansomeofyourfriends,butyouwerestilljustgettingadifferentresult.Whatwewantedtodowasmakefoodthatpeoplecouldchoosebasedontaste,andithappenedtobegoodforthem,butwewoulddothedifficultpartoflearningaboutmanufacturing,insomewaysre-engineeringtheverymanufacturingprocesstobeabletomakeafundamentallynewproduct.

Allofthatissortofthisconnectivetissueofwhatmyjourneyhaslookedlike.TheimportantpartsbeingIlearnedagrowthmindset,andthatchangedeverything,andthenrealizingthatifyouwanttobesuccessfulinbusiness,you

needtorecognizetheonlythingyoucansellovertimeisvalue.Ifyou'renotactuallyaddingvaluetopeople'slives,thebestyoucanhopetobeisaflashinthepan.

DaveAsprey: I'vetalkedwithalotofyoungentrepreneurs,andIhaveaprettysimilarpathtoyouthere,earlysuccessandthingslikethat.Butalotofthemaregoing,"I'mgoingtogetrich.I'mgoingtolearnonlinepoker.I'mgoingtobedoingdaytrading."Or,"I'mgoingtodosomethinglikethis."Whichaddszerovaluetoanything.Bytheway,Iwasaprettyexperienceddaytrader.Icoulddobutterflyspreadsonoptionsandallthisstuff,butthebottomlineis,itdoesn'tdoanythingforanyoneotherthanputsomemoneyinyouraccount,andthere'svalueinhavingmoney,becauseyoucandosomethingmeaningfulwithit,butinfactyouhaveaquotefrominoneofyourinterviewswhereyousay,"That'swhatpeopledon'tunderstandaboutmoneyorevensuccess.Youcanhaveallofitandstillhateyourlife."

IwentthroughapointwhenIwas26,Imade$6millionatthecompanythatheldGoogle'sfirstserver,whenitwasjustLarryandSergeiandacoupleofservers,andtheveryformationofwhenTheFacebookbecameacustomer,becausetheyhadn'trenamedthemselvestoFacebookyet,andallthis.

TomBilyeu: Wow.

DaveAsprey: Iliterallywaslike,"Youknow,I'llbehappywhenIhave$10million."Iliterallysaidthat.Like,I'm26yearsoldwith$6millioninstockandallthisstuff,andwhatkindofajerk,right?Thatwholehatingyourlifethingwasaproblem.IlostthatmoneywhenIwas28,whichwaskindofunfortunate,butIwentthroughthatsamething.Ijustlovethatyousaythat.Youcanstillhateyourlifeifyou'resuccessful,topofwhateveryourindustryis,andenoughmoneynottoworryaboutit.Iknowalotofpeoplewhoarethere,andIalsoknowsomepeoplewhoarebillionaires,orpeoplewhoarejustloadsofmoney,whoareprofoundlyhappybecausetheydecidedtomakeadifference.Infact,wherewemet,attheXPRIZEInnovationBoard,thisisagroupofextremelyfinanciallysuccessfulpeoplewhoareputtingmeaningfulamountsoftheirownmoney-andmeaningfultotheseguyshaslotsofzeroes-toworkchangingtheworld,becauseitmakesthemhappy.Becausetheythinktheycandosomethinggood.Thosearethehappybillionaires.

Thenthere'sthemiserablebillionaires,whoarelike,"HowdoIholdontowhatIhave?"Youknow,theMr.SmithsfromtheSimpsons.HowdidyouavoidbecomingMister...IsitMr.Smith?Smithers,sorry.HowdidyouavoidbecomingMr.Smithersasyoubecamewealthier?

TomBilyeu: IjokewithpeopleandsaythatQuestwasacompanybornoutofmisery,butthat'sactuallytrue.IthinkifAwarenessTechnologies,whichwasthetechcompanythatIsortofgrewupin,hadn'tbecomesuchaprofoundlymiserableexperienceforme,Iwouldn'thaveescapedit.ItwasbecauseIwasgoing

throughthatandIhadthisdawning,horrificrealization,whichisthatthestruggleisguaranteed,butthemoneyisnot.

DaveAsprey: Wellsaid.

TomBilyeu: Whenyouknowyou'regoingtogothroughhardtimes,man,andIcannotpromiseyouontheothersideofthatisthesuccessthatyou'reimaginingforyourself,andIbegantorealize,"ThegamethatI'mplayingactuallyisn'tmoney.ThegamethatI'mplayingisn'tsuccess.ThegamethatI'mplayingisneurochemistry."Icouldgiveyou$7.4billion,butifyouhateyourselfandwanttocommitsuicide,whatgoodisthatmoney?Andconversely,ifyouhavenomoneybutyoufeeladeepsenseoffulfillmentandaccomplishmentinyourlife,andyoulovewhatyou'redoing,itdoesn'tmatterthatyoudon'thavemoney,becauseyoufeelsogreat.That'swhatmakesthisindustryinparticularsointerestingtome,andit'swhyI'mjustdestinedtobeinvolvedintwoindustries.Industriesthataddressthebody,andindustriesthataddressthemind.Becausethosearethetwowaysthatyoureallyareabletoexperience,inapositiveway,life,right?

Thattomeisbig,butunderstandthatIwashavingtheserealizations,likewithdawninghorror,becauseeverythingthatIwasdoinginmylifewastheexactopposite.I'mchasingmoneyforthesakeofmoneywithnosenseofwhatIwanttodowithit,soit'slikethedogchasingthecar.It'slike,"Youdon'tknowwhyyou'rechasingthecar."Right?IhadsomevaguesensefromwhenIwasakidthatmoneywascool,anditletyougetcoolthings,andthatIwasgoingtosomehowlovethosecoolthings,andwhatIdidn'trealize,andwhatInowknowisjustbakedintothecoreofmyexistence,whatIdidn'trealizewasthatIwouldnotfeelanydifferentlyaboutmyselfwithmoneythanIdidwithoutmoney.

Whenyoulookatsomebodythathasmoneyandyoudon't,youlookatthemwithenvy.Youhavealevelofadorationforthem.It'simpressive.Asaculture,wecelebratethat.WhenIfinallyhit"refresh,refresh,refresh"onmybankaccountandsuddenlyIhadalotofmoney,Iwaslike,"Thisisamazinglikeabowloficecreamisamazing,butIdonotfeeldifferentlyaboutmyselfatall."Itwassuchacruelmoment,whereitwaslikeyouwanttolaughandcry.It'slike,"Thisisgoingtobepowerful,becauseInowknowwhyIwantthemoney."LongbeforeIgotit,Ihadfiguredthatout.Iwantedtohelppeopleescapethematrix,whetheritwasbyhelpingthemgettheirbodyright,ordirectlyhelpingthemgettheirmindright.Thatwasmyobsession.Beingofservice,monetizingvalue.Actuallyhelpingpeopleanddoingsomethingmeaningfulfortheworld,andthatmakesmefeelgood,right?

BecausethegameI'mplayingisneurochemistry.It'snotaboutlegacy.It'sabout,"Rightnow,today,Iwanttofeelgoodaboutcontributing."Iwanttofeelgoodaboutsomebodywritinginandsaying,"Dude.Thattalkyougavechangedmylife."Or,"Thatpieceofadvicethatyoujustgave,thatreallyhasfundamentallychangedthetrajectoryofmylife.I'velaunchedabusiness.I've

donewhatever."Ilovethat.Notinsome,"WhenI'mdeadandlookbackkindofway."Like,rightnow,today,that'sverymeaningfultome.

Iwasgoingafterwealthcreationfortherightreason.Iwasdoingitthroughtherightmethod,ofdeliveringvaluetopeople,butinthatmomentrealizing,"ThishasnotchangedthewaythatIfeelaboutmyself.IamnotlookingatmyselfthewaythatIlookatotherpeoplewhohavesuccess."NowIknowthatalltheinternalstruggles,feelinginadequate,insecurities,they'retheretostayuntilyoudotheinternalwork,right?Ofgettingpastthat.

Thatwasobviouslyveryhumbling,andthenalongthatjourneythatIlaidoutinthebeginning,oneofthemostpowerfulrealizationsthatIhadwasjusthumility,right?Toalwaysbewillingtositatsomebody'sfeetandlearnisjustincrediblyvaluableifyouwanttobesuccessful.Couplethe,"I'mhumbledbecauseitfeelsgood."Becauseyoudon'tfeellikeyou'reteeteringandonthebrinkoftheillusioncrumbling.Humilityservesthatpurpose,butthenhumilityalsoisincrediblypowerful,andIknowthat.Inbeinghumble,youopenyourselfuptonewinformation.Youdon'tstagnate.Yourideasdon'tbecomedogmaticorcalcified.Youstaynimbleandfreshintellectually,whichthenservesyouifyou'retryingtobuildsomething.That'sobviouslyalotofwords,toansweryourquestion,butthat'showI'veavoidedthat.

DaveAsprey: It'saprofoundanswer.IknowIwaschasingmoneywhenIwasayoungman,becauseIfiguredmoneywouldmeanthatI'dbeloved,anditwouldmeanthatI'dbesafe.Ididn'tthinkthisstuff,youknow?Thesearen'trationalthoughts.Thesearedeep-seated,self-consciousemotionalthings.Alotofpeoplewhoarechasingmoneyhavesomemessagelikethat,andit'susuallyaroundlove,safety,beingwanted,andjustallsortsofweirdstuffthatistiedintoneurochemistry,andtiedintoearlychildhoodexperiencesthathappeneveninthebestoffamilies,wheresomethinghappensandyougetthislittleseedthatgrowsinthere,andsuddenlyyou'relike,"Okay,I'mgoingtohavesomemoney.I'llfinallybegoodenough."Orwhatever."I'llfinallyproveittosomething."Butyoudon'tthinkthethought.Youfeeltheemotionaboutthat,anditdrivesyourbehavior,andyou'relike,"WhyamIdoingthis?"

I,likeyou,it'stothepointwherethere'sstudies.Ifyoumakeabout$75,000ayear,anotherdollarwillnotchangeyourhappinessonebit.Havingyourbasicneedsmetdoesimproveyourhappiness,butitdoesn'tmeanyou'reagoodpersonornotabadperson.Itdoesn'tmeanyou'rehappyornothappy.Certainlystrugglingtomakesureyouhaveenoughfoodandcleanwaterdoesreducehappiness,butbeyondthat,ifyoudon'thaveamissionandavision,why?Whyareyoudoingit?Iappreciatethatyoufiguredthatout,andyoushareditsoeloquently.IwishsomeonehadtoldmethatwhenIwas25.Itwouldhavesavedmealotofwork.

TomBilyeu: Youandmeboth.

DaveAsprey: That'soneofthereasonsIdowhatIdo,andIthinkthat'swhyyoudowhatyoudo,also.

TomBilyeu: Noquestion.

DaveAsprey: Youtalkabout25growthmindsetswithImpactTheory.We'renotgoingtotalkaboutall25inthisinterview,becausethatwouldprobablyboretheheckoutofpeopleifwetriedtocramthemallininanhour,butIpickedoutafewofthemthatIthoughtwereparticularlyuseful,andonetiesintohumility,thatyoujusttalkedabout,whereyouknowthatyouknowwhatyouknow,butyoualsoknowthere'sthingsyoudon'tknow,andyou'rewillingtoabsorbthem.

Yourprinciplenumber13isthateverythingoreveryonehassomethingtoteachyou,solearnfromwhoeveryoucan.Tellmeacoupleexamplesoftimeswhereyoulearnedsomethingeitherfromsomeonefamousorsomeunexpectedpersonthatcompletelychangedyourtrajectory.

TomBilyeu: IwilltellyouthatworkingintheinnercitiesatQuest,thatwasaverysurprisingthing.I'dneverreallyputtwoandtwotogether,butwhenyou'remanufacturing,you'regoingtogointoanareathat'sanindustrialzone.Thosearealmostexclusivelyinunderprivilegedareas.Yourworkforceisgonnabepeoplefromthesurroundingneighborhood,andthey'regonnahavegrownuprelativelyhard.WeweremanufacturinginComptonintheearlydaysofQuest,andthepeoplethatwerecominginandworkingforushadjustgrownupinsanelyhard.Oneofthethingsthattheytaughtmethattheydidn'tnecessarilyintendtoteachmewasthepowerofhope.Seeingsomebodygo,that'sneverhadhopebeforeintheirlife,andseethemsuddenlyrealize,"Whoa,Icandosomethingmorewithmylife.Thisisincredible."Seeinghowhardsomebodyiswillingtoworkfortheirfamily,whenthey'vehadnothing.Like,thattakingcareofyourownandreallysacrificinganddoingthingstotakecareofyourfamily,therewerejustamazingstoriesofthatwithinthecompany.Thatwasincredible.

Whathavealearnedfromsomebodyfamous?Forsomereason,MichaelStrahanjumpstomind.HewroteabookcalledWakeUpHappy,andhe'saguythatI'vehadtheverygoodfortuneofgettingtoknowwelloff-camera.Hereallyislikethatallthetime.Thisguyhasanoptimistic,upbeatlifethatisjustunbelievable,andhetalksabout,"It'sallaboutyourperception,andthatperceptionisachoice."Ifyouchoosetoseethenegative,you'regoingtoseethenegative,butifyouchoosetoseethepositive,andyouwakeupeverydaysaying,"HowamIgoingtomakethisagreatday?"Whenthatbecomesyourframefortheday,itreallyisincredible.That,Ihaveadopteddeeplyinmylife.

TonyRobbins,anotherfamousperson,gavemesomeadvicewhenIwasyoung,justthroughhisbooks.Ididn'tmeethimuntil...God,Iguessthreeyearsago.Thatwastheconceptof,"Ifyouchangethequestionsyou'reaskingyourself,youwillchangethetrajectoryofyourlife."Thenhesaid,"Taketheworstthingthat'severhappenedtoyouandaskyourselfthesimpleandhonestquestion,'Howisthatthingthebestthingthateverhappenedtome?'"Thatgoesbackto

thatStrahannotionofperspectiveiseverything.Onceyoucanstoplookingatthatmomentassomethingthatwastrulydamaging,andacknowledging,"Yeah,itwas."Thatsideisjustasreal,butit'salsoalmostcertainlygivenyousomething.

Whenyoulookatthat...I'lljustgorighttooneofthehardestthingsforpeoplethatwereabusedgrowingup.Somanyofthemsay,"I'mgonnabetheonethatbreaksthecycle.Thatisnevergoingtohappenundermywatch."Andtheyendupbeingextraordinaryfriends,parents,becausethey'vejustgotthatlinethatforthemsimplycannotbecrossed,andtheyunderstandhowdamagingitis,andtheycanreallybearesourceforotherpeoplethataregoingthroughsomethingsimilar,soit'sjustincredibly,incrediblypowerful.Oneofthepeoplethatcameontheshow,hisnameisWesChapman,hadthatkindoflife,butnowbecauseofthat,andhe'llbethefirsttosay,"Literally,Ican'twishtonothavegonethroughitnow,becausethenIwouldn'tbeinapositiontohelpthepeoplethatI'mhelping."Thattomeisjustlike,youcan'tchangewhathappened,butyoucanchangethewaythatyoulookatit.

DaveAsprey: It'sjustfundamentalgratitude.Samethingwithme.IkindawishIdidn'thaveallthekneesurgeriesandthatIwasn'tobese,allthiscrapIwentthrough,butIwouldn'tbeabio-hackerifitwasn'tforit,soifyoucan'tfindgratitudeforyourchallenges,there'ssomethingtodowhenyougotobedtonight,isfindsomegratitudeforyourchallenges.

TomBilyeu: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: DoyouevergotoTonyRobbinsevents?Haveyoueverbeentoone?

TomBilyeu: I'vebeentoone,yeah.

DaveAsprey: Heinvitedmetospeakathiseventsthisyear,attheUnleashthePowerWithin…

TomBilyeu: Nice.

DaveAsprey: Hiswork,hisbookshavechangedmylifequiteawhileago,butIalwayskindofwent,"Oh,maybehe'samarketingguy.Like,whoreallyknows?"Iwenttohisevent.I'mlike,"Holycrap."Ihadnoideahowdeepthatstuffis,andhowpowerfulandrealitwas.Iliterally,twoweeksago,justfinishedfourdaysofoneofthose.OnthefinaldayIspoke,butthefirstthreedaysIjustdidthiswholeprocess.I'mlike,"Wow.There'ssomerealmagicherewithTony."AndsomanyoftheverysuccessfulpeopleIknowhavebeeninfluencedbyhim.Itwascoolthatyoubroughthimup,becausehe'sagoodhumanbeing.

TomBilyeu: He'sanamazing...Agoodhumanbeing,andIactuallythinkhisadviceisreal.

DaveAsprey: Oh,yeah.

TomBilyeu: Bythat,ifyoutakehisadvice,yourlifewillactuallybebetter.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.Itworks,whichisprofound.It'sveryelegantneurologically,too.Iwasreallystokedthatyoumentionedhim,becausehe'stherewhenIhaveadinnerconversationwithreallysuccessfulpeople.Asurprisingamountofthetime,someonewilljustbringupsomethinghesaid.

TomBilyeu: Wow.

DaveAsprey: Talkabouthavingabigimpactandfeelinggoodaboutit,soI'mgladhecanbeanexample.

TomBilyeu: Noquestion.

DaveAsprey: Youalsotalkaboutbuildingself-esteemaroundidentifyingtherightanswer,andpursuingitfasterthananyoneelse.Givemesomeexamples.Howdoesthatwork?Howdoesthattieintoself-esteem?

TomBilyeu: ThiswasprobablythesinglemostimportantrealizationthatI'veeverhad.I'mworkingwiththesetwohigh-poweredentrepreneurs,andI'mlikethedumbkidwhodoesn'tknowanythingaboutbusiness.Ifoundthatreallydifficultemotionally,becauseIwasconstantlyfeelingbadlyaboutmyself,becauseI,upuntilthatmoment,pridedmyselfonbeingsmart,andwhenyouprideyourselfonbeingsmart,youneedtoberight.Otherwise,A,areyoureallythatsmart?AndsoIfoundmyselfinthisposition.Theseguysarejustsortofempirically,thedatawouldshow,aresmarterthanme.Bythat,ImeantheyprocessrawdatafasterthanIdo.I'mconstantlyinthispositionof,theywouldcomeupwiththerightanswerfaster,andthenIwouldfeelbadlyaboutmyself,andIwaslike,"Man,thisexperienceisreallynotgreat."Iwouldkeeparguingfordumbideasjustbecausetheyweremine.

IrememberonetimeIfinallyout-arguedthem,andIconvincedthemtodomyidea.Now,thiswasatthetimewhenmysolegoalinlifewastogetrich.HereIam,statedgoal:Getrich.I'vejustconvincedthemofanideathatIknowisworsethantheiridea,andsonowIhavethismomentofcrisiswhereI'mlike,"WhatdoIactuallywant?"Becauseifmystatedgoalistogetrich,andI'mpromisingmywife,"Look,we'renotgoingtobepoorforever.I'mgoingtomakeyourich.It'sgoingtobeincredible."ButhereIamarguingforanideathatIknowisworse,justtoberight.Thatmademerealize,"There'ssomethingdrivingmybehaviorotherthanwhatIthinkisdrivingmybehavior."Iwaslike,"DoIwanttoberight,ordoIwanttoachievemygoals?"

Inthatmoment,Irealizedthisisaproblemofself-esteem.What'shappeningis,theymakemefeelbadlyaboutmyselfbecauseIpridemyselfonbeingsmart.Ineedtofeelgoodaboutmyself.Ithinkthatjustgoeswithoutsaying,butwhenIlookatsuiciderates,it'scrazyhowmanypeoplecommitsuicides.ThesecondleadingcauseofdeathamongyoungmenintheUS.Thenumberoneleading

causeofdeathamongyoungmeninAustralia,andthat'swhenyougetthefalsebeliefthatyoucouldneverfeelgoodaboutyourselfagain.It'safalsebelief,butnonethelessthat'swhathappens.

Ithought,"Self-esteemiscriticallyimportant,butcanIchoosewhatIbaseiton?"BecauseifIcanchoosewhatIbaseiton,Ineedtobaseitonsomethingthat'santi-fragile,soNassimTaleb'snotionofbeingstrong,beingresilientisnotnearlyasusefulasbeinganti-fragile.Hedefinesthatas,"Themoreyouattackit,thestrongeritgets."Likeworkingoutinagym.You'reactuallytearingthemuscle,butaslongasyougiveyourselftherestperiod,itactuallybuildsbackstronger.Wantingtoputmyself-esteeminasimilarsituation.Irealizedifinsteadofpridingmyselfonbeingsmart,Ipridedmyselfonbeingalearner,beinghumble,alwaysbeingwillingtositatsomebody'sfeetandlearnfromthem,andthenleveragethattoidentifytherightanswerfasterthananybodyelse,andthenbetheonetoputtheenergybehindtheidea.

IbegantorewardmyselfemotionallyforthetimeswhereI'dbefightingforanideabecauseIbelievedinit,notthetimeswhereIknewthatitwaswrong.ButfightingforanideaIbelievedin,Ireallythoughtitwasgoingtobethethingthatwouldmoveustowardsourgoal,someonewouldsaysomething,andIwouldrealize,"They'reright."AndIwouldsay,"Guys,Ihavetoadmit,Iknowjust30secondsagoIwasfightingreallyhardforthisidea,buttheyjustconvincedme.Ithinkthisistherightidea.Iwastotallywrong."Indoingthat,youactuallybuildcredibility,becausepeoplenowknowyoudon'tfightforanideajusttofightforit.Youonlyfightforsomethingwhenyouactuallythinkit'sright.ThenIwouldacknowledgethepersonwhoseideaitwas,putatonofenergybehindit,trytohelpthemexecuteinanywaythatIcould,getotherpeopleexcitedabouttheidea,andsothatnotonlymademefeelgood,andisanti-fragile,butitalsohelpedusactuallypushtowardsourgoals.

DaveAsprey: That'sacoolwayoflookingatit.Thefearofbeingwrong,foralotofpeople,it'stieddirectlyinto,"Noonewillloveme.I'mnotagoodperson.I'mafailure.IfIfail..."You'relike,"IcoulddieifIfail."Like,"Ican'tdothat."You'rewillingtojusttellyourselfastorythatisn'teventrue,andyou'rewillingtofight,likeyousaid,forsomethingthatyouknowisinferior.Youtiethatintobeingwillingtolisten,andoneofthe...I'mnotgoingtocallit"regret."It'snotregretanymore.It'salearningexperienceIhadveryearlyinmycareer.There'sarelativelyfamousventurecapitalistguynamedMarcAndreessen.Youprobablyknowthename.

TomBilyeu: Ofcourse.

DaveAsprey: WhenMarcwasakid,Ithinkhewastwoyearsolderthanme,atUniversityofIllinois,hewrotethefirstwebbrowserthatwasoutthere.EndedupbecomingacompanycalledNetscape.Ireviewedthefirstversionofthat,ofhissoftware,forPCMagazine.Iwasthere.

TomBilyeu: Wow.

DaveAsprey: Iwasthefirstguytosellanythingovertheinternetbeforethebrowserwascreated.Itwasat-shirtthatsaid,"Caffeine:Mydrugofchoice."I'minthefray.ThedifferencebetweenMarc,who'samulti-billionaire,andme,who'snowherenearabillionaire,I'veworkedforapaycheckforthelast20years,andlearnedalotalongtheway.ButthedifferencebetweenusisthatwhenMarcwas25orhoweveroldhewasatthetime,hewentouttothemostseniorexecutiveshecouldfind,andhewaswillingtositattheirfeetandlearnfromthem,andhetalkedwithaguynamedJimClarke,who'sthefounderofSunMicrosystems,whobecameoneofhisboardmembers,andhisadvisorandmentor,anddozensofotherpeople.

Whoelsedidthat?MarkZuckerberg.Mark,asakid,likesub-25...Ihatetotellyou,I'm44now,soyouqualifyasakidifyou'reunder25,justbecauseyourprefrontalcortexdoesn'tfinishbaking'tilyou're24,andyou'reayoungadult,butyou'restillgoingtomakechoicesthatarenotthechoicesofwisdom.

Somehow,thesetwoguyswentoutandfoundthebiggest,baddestpeopletheycould,andsaid,"Teachme.Showmehowtodoit."Bothofthemwentontocreatebillionsofdollarsforthemselves.Me?Iwasafraidofbeingwrong.Iwasafraidoffailing,andIdidallright.Imade$6millionwhenIwas26,butIdidn'tmake$60or$600millionlikeMarcdid,orlikeMarkZuckerbergorMarcAndreessen.Itcouldjustbethatmynameisn'tMark.Ialwaysthoughtthatmightbeit.

Anyway,thesearejustexamplesofyoungentrepreneurswhodidstartcompaniesataveryyoungage,andgrewbecausetheyfollowedyourprinciplenumber17,aroundidentifyingtherightanswerandpursuingitfasterthananyoneelse,andyournumber18,whichisbuildingyourself-esteemaroundbeingrightallthetimeleadsyoutomakepoordecisions.Iwouldmakedecisionsoutofegooroutoffear,andIwouldjustcompletelyrepellentofadvice.There'smanypeopleinpositionsofpowerandauthoritywhodesperatelywanttohelppeople,buttheyonlywanttohelppeoplewhogenuinelywillreceivethehelpandactonit,becausethelastthingIwanttodoandthelastthingyouwanttodoisspendtwohoursofyourtimementoringsomeonewho'sgonnaignoreeverythingbecausethey'reright,andthengooffanddowhattheyweregoingtodoanyway.It'sawasteofyourtime.It'sawasteoftheirtime.

TomBilyeu: Agreed.

DaveAsprey: TheseareexamplesinmyownlifewhereI'mlike,"Man,ifIwouldhaveknownaboutyournumber17,number18,itwouldhavetotallychangedmycareertrajectory."Butthenagain,Iwouldn'tbeaprofessionalbio-hackerandwouldn'thavestartedBulletproof,soI'mnotupsetaboutthosethings,butman,forpeoplelistening,theyshouldabsorbyourprinciplesthere.Youlearnedthemtherightway,andIlearnedthembywatchingpeople,andIcantellyounow,someofthethingsI'mdoingwithBulletproof,guyslikeJayAbraham,he'soneofthetopmarketinggurusoutthere,we'vebecomepersonalfriends,andhecalled

meup.I'mlike,"HowcanIlearnfromyou?"I'velearnedatonfromhim,andjustfrommanyotherswhohavedonewhatI'mworkingtodoeven20yearsago,andhavedecadesmoreexperiencethanme.Likeyousaid,ifyou'renotwillingtolistentothosepeople,you'redoingitwrong.Ilovethatyouspelleditoutthewayyoudid.

TomBilyeu: Cool.

DaveAsprey: You'vegotanotherprinciplehere,Tom.Youtalkabout,"Donotdothatwhichmovesyouawayfromyourgoals."Whatdoesthatmean?

TomBilyeu: Yeah.I'mfiendishaboutthisone.Thisreallysitsatthecenterofmybehavior.Infact,ifyouwanttounderstandme,ifyou'relookingatmefromananthropologicalstandpoint,thefirstthingyouneedtounderstandis,Isetagoal,somethingthatIreallybelievein,reallywanttoachieve,andthenallofmybehaviorsworkbackwardsfromthat.I'llidentify,"Okay,whatistheactualpath,stepbystep?"Theyhavetobeincremental,executablesteps,sothatyou'renotjustsortofinthepieinthesky,like,"Iwanttodothisthing,butIhavenosenseofhowI'mactuallygoingtoexecuteagainstthat."

ThenwhatIinevitablyrealizeisthatthosestepswillrequiremetoacquirenewskills.Icallthatthe"skillgap."ThenIsetaboutidentifyingwhattheskillsarethataregoingtoletmeactuallytakethosesteps.Iacquirethoseskills,andthenIexecuteagainstthem.That'sreallythedriver.

Now,thebigpartofthisformeis,it'snotjustdoingwhatyourgoalsdemand.It'sbelievingwhatyourgoalsnecessitate.Alotofpeople,likeifyousay,"Okay,Iwanttowhatever.""I'mtryingtobuildastudio,andIwanttobuildastudiobiggerthanDisney."That'sourgoal.Atraditionalnarrativestudio,doneinana-traditionalway,sothatweactuallyhaveashotatbeatingthesegoliaths,butlookingatthatandunderstandingthattopullthatoff,IhavetobelievethatIcandoit.EvenifIhavenoearthlyrighttobelieveit,mygoaldemandsthatIbelieveit,becauseIknowjustlikeasafact,you'reonlygoingtoattemptthatwhichyoubelieveyoucansucceedat.Ifyoudon'tthinkyoucandoit,you'renotgonnadoit.Youmayacknowledgethatasthereason.Youmaycomeupwith100otherreasons,butifyoucanactuallybelievethat...NotthatI'mcapableofittoday,andthat'simportant.

It'snotthatIbelieveIcandoitrightnow,today.It'sthatIbelieveIcanacquiretheskillsthatwillallowmetodoit,andbecauseofthat,Itakethefirststep,andthenItakethesecond,andtheoneafterthat.It'slike,eventhoughit'sjustasterrifyingformeasitwouldbeforanybodytosay,"Okay,that'syourgoal,andit'ssobig,andofcoursepeoplearelaughingatus,"andallthat.You'vegottahavethebelieftobeabletowithstandthat,tobeabletowithstandhittingyourfirstrealsignificantobstacle.Tobeabletowithstandthatpersonthatrespectsyouthatthinksyou'recrazyandactinglikeafool,right?Allofthosethings,you'vegottahavetheinternalbeliefsystemtogetthroughthat.

WhatIfindalotoftimesis,whenItellpeoplethis,"Doandbelievethatwhichmovesyoutowardsyourgoals."Peoplearelike,"Yeah,butthisthing."AndI'mlike,"Look,Idon'tvaluethetruthunlessthetruthservesmeandmygoals."Theproblemis,you'llconvinceyourselfthatsomethingistruethatactuallyisn'tobjectivelytrue,butbecausenegativethingsseemmorereal,theyseemmorebelievable,we'remorelikelytotakethatandassimilateitintoourworldview,thatthepropensityforyoutobelievenegativethingsthatareactuallyfalseissomuchhigherthanforyoutobecomepositivelydelusionalthatIwouldjustmuchrathererrontheside,soyeah.Iamabsolutelyfiendishaboutthat.That'soneofthemostimportantthingsanyupcomingentrepreneuroranylinchpinemployee,anybodycanfigureoutfirstandforemost,is,"Whatbeliefdoesyourgoaldemandofyou?"Andthenyouhavetocultivateit.

DaveAsprey: Iknowafewentrepreneurswhoactuallycultivateabeliefthatthereisaconspiracyoutthere,andtheconspiracyisthat,"TheworldislininguptogivemewhatIwant."There'salsoapsychologicaldiseasearoundthat.It'sliketheoppositeofpeoplewhobelievetheworldisouttogetthem.Theybelievetheworldistheretohelpthem.Areyouoneofthosepeople?

TomBilyeu: Yeah.Look,Einsteinsaidthatthemostimportantdecisionanyhumanbeingeverhastomakeiswhethertheuniverseisworkingforyouoragainstyou.Ithought,"That'ssofascinating."Becausehidinginthequestionisthefactthatit'sachoice,andneitherisobjectivelytrue,right?

DaveAsprey: Exactly.

TomBilyeu: Theuniverseisn'touttogetyou,andit'snotouttohelpyou,butifyouchoosetobelieve,"Youknowwhat?There'sactuallyawindatmyback."Itjustgivesyouwhatyouneedtotry.It'stheeffort,right?Ifyoustartbelievingitinlikeacrazyway,andyoulosethesensethatthisisatoolthatI'musing,like,"I'mchoosingtobelievethisistrueasamechanismtohelpmemoveforward,totakethatfirststep,tobeginthatlongjourney."Forinstance,thinkabouthowmuchyou'veactuallyhadtoputintolearnwhatyouknowaboutbodycomposition,abouthealth,aboutvitality.Dude,I'vedugintoyourworld,soIknow,fromtheorganicfarmthatyouliveontomakesurethatyourkidsareplayingintherightkindofdirt.Imean,it'snuts,right?Butit'ssopowerfultoseeyoulearnsomething,andyouactonit.

Whensomebodyhasthewindattheirback,whichyouclearlydo,whichisthatyouunderstandthatthisisaprocess,it'saphysiological,biologicalprocess,itcanbeunderstood,andbecauseyoubelievethatitcanbeunderstood,thatyouactuallytakethesteps.Now,that'sthewindatone'sbackthatI'mtalkingabout.Merelythatyoubelieveitcanbefiguredout.Youbelievethatitcanbeunderstood,andthatitcanbeunderstoodbyyou.You'rewillingtogoonwhatreally,man,would...Itmusthavetakenyoudecadestoaccumulateallofthisknowledge,whichyoudowithpassionandenthusiasm,whichonlyfuelstherateatwhichyougetthisinformationandallthat.Butitstartswiththat,"Thisis

doable."Ifyoubelievedfundamentallyitcan'tbedone,youneverwouldhavedoneit.

DaveAsprey: It'sfunnyyousaythat.I'vepissedalotofpeopleoff.ThismonthIwasinoneofthemajormen'smagazines,andthere'sanarticleabout...Idon'twanttosaythewrongone,whichisterrible.Ihaven'tseenthephysicalcopyyet,soIdon'thaveitinmyhead.Buttherewasanarticle,like,"Howoldarethesecrazypeoplegoingtolivetobe?"AndthenPeterThielsis120.I'mlike,"I'mgonnado180."Right?"Iwanttolive‘tilatleast180."Thenthere's[inaudible]like,"Oh,10,000years,andI'mgoingtohavethebestbeardeverwhenIdothat."Idon'tknowifyouknow[inaudible].He'safriendwiththeworld'smostmesmerizingbeard.

Peoplegetreallymadwhenyoutalkaboutstufflikethat.They'relike,"Look,ifIdon'tbelieveIcandoit,I'mprobablynotgoingtodoit,andI'mtotallywillingtodietrying."Right?That'stheworstthingthat'sgoingtohappen.

TomBilyeu: Right.

DaveAsprey: Whichwasprobablygoingtohappenatsomepointanyway.It'sthatmindset,though,andpartofitis,IknowImaynotmakeit,butifIcanconvincemytissuesthattheuniverseisconspiringtogivemethewindatmyback,thatI'mabsolutelygoingtodothis,itaffectsmysubconsciousbehaviors.Itsoundslikeyou'vegotasimilarlineofthinkingaroundthat,whereyou'relike,"Okay,Ineedtobelievethesethings,becauseifIbelievethem,it'snotjusttherationalpartofmethat'saffected.It'sthebehaviorpartsofmethathappenwhenIdon'tthinkaboutthem."Isthatfairtosay?

TomBilyeu: 100%.Dude,sofair.

DaveAsprey: Now,thatsaid,IcantellyouwhenIstartedBulletproof,IwasaVPofCloudSecurityatoneofthelargestcomputersecuritycompaniesoutthere.Imadeaquartermilliondollarsayear,stockoptions.Abrandnewson,secondchild.We'djustmovedtoanewcountry.Ihaddepletedmostofmysavingsdoingthat,andworkingonacouplestartupthings,andmywifewaslike,"Dave,whatthehellareyoudoing?"Like,"Thisistheworsttimeevertostartacompany."Likejust,"Youhaveagoodjob.Justdothat."I'mlike,"Iknow,butIkindofhavetodothis,becauseI'mnotmakingadifferenceinanyotherjob."

Itturnsoutinretrospect,I'msureshe'lltellyou,itwastherightmovetostartthecompany,butIhadtoovercomeinternalresistancearoundthat,andfamilyresistance.We'vegotpeoplelisteningtothiswhoaresaying,"MaybeIshouldstartacompany.MaybeIshouldgoandapplyforthejob."Or,"Ishouldgobacktoschool."Or,"Ishoulddothethingthat'sgoingtohelpmeachievewhateverI'mheretodo."Whatdoyousaytopeoplelikethat,whoaremaybesupportingafamily,orlookingatascarynewstartup,orlookingatasafechoiceversusariskychoice?

TomBilyeu: There'sacouplethings.One,everythingcomesdowntoyourvaluesystems.That'sgonnadriveyourbehavior.Valuesandidentitydrivebehavior.Youneedtostaytruetoyourvalues,orchangethem,andthenstaytruetothenewvalues,butifthethingthatyou'regonnalookbackonandvalueyourselfforisentirelypredicatedaroundsafetyandstability,thendon'tstartacompany.It'sgoingtobeabadmove,andyoureallywillbeoutofalignmentwithyourself.Obviouslyforyou,definitivelyforme,Idon'tprizesafetyandsecurity.Ibelievethemissionof...Ithinkeverybody,butcertainlyIwillspeakformyself.Thewholereasontobealiveistosay,"Okay,humansaretheultimateadaptationmachines.Weareabletothriveinvirtuallyanyenvironment.Wedothatbecausewehavethisamazingphysiologicalandmentalabilitytoadapttothatnewenvironment.Okay,soifwe'reprimedforthatmorethananyotherspeciesever,whywouldwenottakeadvantageofthat?"

Ibelievethepointoflifeistoseehowmanyskillsyoucanacquirethathaveutility,andthenputthatutilitytothetestinserviceofsomethingbiggerthanyourself.Becausethat'smyvaluesystem,whileobviouslyIwouldwanttotakecareofmyfamily,thatisn'tenoughforme.Knowingthatthisotherthingcouldalso...Andlook,ifIhadafamily,IwouldbeascarefulasIcan.Iwouldn'tdoanythingreckless.IwouldkeepthejobaslongasIcould,keepthemoneycomingin,andonlypivotatthatmomentwhenIfeltlike,"Okay,nowismybestchancetoactuallymakeitwork,andnowit'ssortofholdingthatsidebackbybeingoverhere.Whereasinthebeginning,maybethatwasveryuseful,nowit'snotuseful."Iwouldlooktodothatintelligently,butattheendoftheday,toreallyrealizemypotential,tostaytruetomyvaluesystem,Iwouldhavetoatleasttry.

Protectyourdownside.RichardBransonspeakssobeautifullyaboutentrepreneursthataresuccessfulreallylearnveryquicklyhowtoprotecttheirdownside,whichIwoulddo,butIwouldneverfailtotakethatrisk.It'sexactlythatriskthatendeduppayingoffformywifeandIwhenwebuiltQuest,whichendedupbeingverysuccessful.Ibelieveit'sgoingtopayoffagainnowthatwe'releavingthesafetyandcomfortofQuest,andcomingovertosomethingentirelynew,andbuildingitfromscratch,becauseitspeakstomycorevalues.Ithinkcorevaluesaremalleable,andIthinkpeoplecanchangethem,soit'saboutlookinginwardandseeingwhat'sreallytrueforyou,whatyoureallywant,whatyoureallyvalueinyourself,andadjustingandactingaccordingly.

DaveAsprey: Doyouthinkeveryoneiscutouttobeanentrepreneur?Somanypeoplearelike"wantrapreneurs,"butthey'redoingitbecausethat'swhatyou'resupposedtodo.What'syourtakeonthemindsetofbeinganentrepreneur?

TomBilyeu: Well,Ibelieveanybodycandevelopthemindsetofanentrepreneur,butIdon'tbelievethatthere'sanyreasontobecomeanentrepreneurifthatdoesn'tfeelrightforyou.Tome,askingifsomebodyshouldbeanentrepreneurislikeaskingifsomebodyshouldbeamusician.It'slike,"Ifyouloveit."Ifyouaredrawntothat,I'lltellyou,IbecameanentrepreneurbecauseIwantedtocontrolmyowndestiny.Thatwasmydrivingforce.Ireallyneed...Itismypersonality.It's

somethingthat'spartofmyvaluesystem.Allofitcomingtogether.Ican'thaveaboss.Ijustcan't.Ihavearealproblemwithauthority.It'sathingforme.

Also,ahugethingformeis,IneedtoknowthatthemoreeffortIputin,themoreproblemsIeffectivelysolve,thatIcanmakemoremoney.That'simportanttome.Justknowingallofthat,itdoesn'tworkinatraditionalworkenvironmentwhereunlessyou'rethesalesguy,andeventhenthere'susuallycapsandrestructuresandallthat,thathappeninevitably.TheonewayIknewIcancontrolmydestiny,Iliveanddiebymyabilities,andIactuallylovethatmyhouseisonthelineatalltimes,thatifIfail,hey,itallgoesaway.Ilovethat.IloveknowingIamplayingahigh-stakesgamewheremyskillsetmatters,right?Goingbacktomyvisionofwhatthemeaningoflifeis,toacquireskillsthathaveutility,right?Iwanttoknow,"AretheskillsthatI'macquiring,dotheyactuallywork?"Andwhentheyworkandyou'relike,"Holyhell.Iwasabletomakesomethingofthis."Anddude,youmustfeelthismorethanmost.Whenyoufirststartedtalkingabouthighfat,yousoundedlikeacrazymantoprettymucheverybody,right?

DaveAsprey: Yup.

TomBilyeu: Youunderstoodit.Youunderstoodwhatwashappeningfromametabolicstandpoint,andbecauseofthat,youhadatruenorth.Youcouldkeeppushingforward.Youknewwhatyouweretryingtobuild.Slowlytheworldstartscatchingup.Imean,youjustreallyplayedtherighthandofanentrepreneur.Itwasn'taboutthemoney.Itwasaboutthebeliefsystem.Itwasaboutwhatyouweretryingtocreate,bringtotheworld.Youknewwhatyourmissionwas.Itwasjustamazing.

DaveAsprey: Oh,thankyou.

TomBilyeu: Yourlifeineveryway,shape,orformisareflectionofthat,soit'slike,you'retotallyauthentic,wonderfullytransparent.You'retryingtoaddvalue.Imean,justgotoyourshoppingcart,andyoucansee,alltheproductsaredesignedtoaddvalue.Alltheinformationalproductsaredesignedtoaddvalue.Eventhestufflikethefullbodyshaker.They'reallthingsthatareconsistentwithyourbeliefsystemabouthowtooptimize.There'snoholetopokeinyou.Peoplemaysayyou'rewrong,butnoone'sgonnasaythatyou'relying.Noone'sgonnasaythatyou'rejusttryingtomonetize.Youcanattackyoufromeveryangle,andyou'rejustgoingtofindthesamepersonstandingthere.Becauseyou'resoconsistent.

That'swhereit'slike,that'sthisnewworldofentrepreneurshipthatwelivein,thatmakesmesoexcitedaboutwherewe'reheaded,butno.Idon'tthinkit'satruenorthforeverybody.Ithinksomepeoplereallydoprizesecurityandsafety,andthat'sperfect,right?Ifyoureallythinkaboutit,ifeverybodywantedtobeanentrepreneur,itallfallsapart,right?

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

TomBilyeu: I'vegotpeopleonthisteam,they'reincredible,andwithoutthem,wecouldnotdowhatwe'regonnado,butwecan'tallbetheonerunningtheshow.

DaveAsprey: It'stotallytrue.Iknowsomepeoplewhowanttobeanentrepreneurbecausethat'swhatthey'resupposedtodo,buttheyhaven'tdevelopedeitherthementaltoughnessorjustthe,"I'mgoingtodoitandIdon'tcareifI'mnotsupposedto"mindsetthat'sapartofit,atleastinmyexperienceofbeinganentrepreneur.

TomBilyeu: Totallyagree.

DaveAsprey: It'sfunny,youtalkedaboutpeoplecallingyoualiar.Anyentrepreneurwillfacedoubtersandthingslikethat.Thecoolthingis,everytimesomeonesaysthatyou'regoingtonotsucceed,ortheysay,"You'realiar."Orwhateverelsetheysayaboutyourbeliefsystemsandwhateverelse,they'restillsayingyourname.It'slike,"Saymyname.Justsaymyname."

TomBilyeu: Right.

DaveAsprey: Anditactuallyworks,becausepeoplearetalkingaboutit.Ifyourideashavemerit,andifthey'rebackedbyscienceandtheyactuallywork,itworksoutattheendoftheday.Ifyou'reanentrepreneurwho's,"I'mgoingtobuildsomethingthatprovidesnovalueforanyone,"andthereareentrepreneurswhosortofdothatandjustgolike,"I'mgoingtore-labelsomethingandsellenoughofitonAmazonsoIcangoliveonanisland,andworkacouplehourseverymonth."You'reprobablynotaddingalotofvaluetotheworld,butyouprobablycanmakeenoughmoneytolive,butthat'snotreallyanentrepreneurinthewaythatIthinkyouandIaretalkingabouttheterm,right?

TomBilyeu: Correct.

DaveAsprey: Youtalkaboutmindsethacks.Sorry.Youtalkaboutmindsethacks.Threementalupgradesyou'drecommend.Doyouhavethoseatthefrontofyourmind?ItooknoteswhenIwasgoingthroughtopreparefortheshow,butyouwanttotalkaboutsomeofyourfavoritemindsethacks?

TomBilyeu: Yeah.Imean,Idon'tknowthatthesewillbethesamethreethatIsaidthen,butmyfirstforme...ThesearethethingsthatIdid.One,prioritizingsleep.I'mactuallyalittleuncomfortablewiththisbecomingpartofmypersona,butpeoplethinkthatIjustgetabsolutelynosleep,whichisn'ttrue.Idon'tsetanalarm.Ihaven'tsetanalarminlike15years,whichisprobablypartofwhyIwakeupwhenIwakeup.Igetbetweenfiveandsixhours.I'llsleep10ifthat'swhatIneed.Idon'thaveanalarm.There'snothingthat'sgoingtostopme.IsleepasmuchasIneedeverynight.It'stypicallybetweenfiveandsixhours,andprioritizingsleepwasabigbreakthroughforme,becauseIjustdon'tdo

well.I'mnotcognitivelyoptimizedwhenI'mtired,andIfindthatauniqueformofmisery.

Whenyoutakeuptoanalarmanditwakesyouupinthewrongpartofyoursleepcycle,itissohateful.Ijusthateit.Startingmydayoffthatnastilyisjustgross.Igotobedreallyearly.That'shacknumberone.Justgotobedearly,sleepaslongasyouneed,noalarm.

Hacknumbertwoformeisthegym.Now,Ihatethegym.Iwanttomakethatabundantlyclear.Idonotenjoyanythingaboutit.Mywifelovesit.Theactofworkingoutforherisamazing,andwhenwe'reonvacation,she'slike,"Toenjoymyvacation,Iwanttokeepworkingout."Iamtheexactopposite.Thelevelofphysicalexertion,thewaythatIfeel,Ijustdon'tenjoyit.Butgoingbacktocognitivelyoptimizing,theresearchonthissoclear.Ifyouwantyourmindtobesharp,yourbody'sgottabesharp.Thentoyourpoint,Iwanttolivequiteliterallyforever.AsWoodyAllensaid,"Idon'twanttoliveforeverthroughmyworks.Iwanttoliveforeverbynotdying."ThatistheliveforeverI'mlookingfor,andIknowthere'salotthathastohappenbetweennowandthen.

DaveAsprey: Doyouhaveoneofthose...Doyouhaveabracelet?Areyougonnalikefreezeyourbodyincaseyoudie?

TomBilyeu: Idon't.

DaveAsprey: Idon'teither.

TomBilyeu: Mythingis...

DaveAsprey: That'snothowIwanttolive.

TomBilyeu: Right?Iwouldratherjustlivelongenoughnaturallytogettothepointwherewhateverproblemhastobesolvedtoactuallyallowustoliveforever,wesolvethatproblem.

DaveAsprey: Thereyougo.

TomBilyeu: I'mtryingtobeasgoodtomybodyashumanlypossible.

DaveAsprey: That'sagreatstrategy.

TomBilyeu: Yeah.That'smy...Wasthattwohacks?

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

TomBilyeu: ThenI'llgiveyouathirdone:Meditating.Meditatingformehasbeentransformative,andthatIavoideddoingitforyearsbecauseitmademefeeleffeminate.I'llbehonest.Itjustdidn'tseemright,andthenImetMarkDivine,

who'saNavySEAL,whoisbasicallylike,"Look,dumbass.Youneedtomeditate.Ithasnothingtodowithbeingweak."Hewaslike,"Itissuchausefultooltogettingthemindoutoffightorflight,turningoffthesympatheticnervoussystem,gettingintotheparasympatheticnervoussystem."Hearingitlikethat,Iwaslike,"Okay,nowIgetthemechanism.Igetwhatthisistryingtodo."Istartedmeditating,andthathasbeenunbelievablyusefulforme,becauseitgetsridofwhatIcallbackgroundradiation.Thesortofthoughts,worries,anxiety,allthat.Itjustbuildstoalevelthatbecomestoubiquitousandever-presentyouforgetthatit'sthereuntilyoumeditate,anditdropstoabsolutezero.It'slike,"NowIhavethespacetohearmyself.Mymindisquiet.Icanactuallyhearathought.Icanputtogetheruniqueideas."Very,verytransformativeforme.

DaveAsprey: Mark'sbeenaguestonBulletproofRadioacoupleoftimes,andit'sawesomewhenyouseeaNavySEAL,liketheultimatetoughguy,like,"No,actuallyyouhavetomeditate."It'sverydifferentthan,"Youhavetoputonyoursportsbratomeditate."BecauseI'vefoundthatthatdoesn'tactuallyworkformeaswelleither.

Idohavetosay,forMarkDivine,theguyhasapornstarname,andhe'saNavySEAL,andI'vealwaysbeenafraidtotellthattohimtohisface,becausehe'dprobablykillme,butinthemeantime,Icansayithereincaseheeverhearsthis.Mark,ifyou'relistening,man,thankyouforyourwork,butyournameisthemostbadassnameever.Thumbsup.

TomBilyeu: Itis.Itisprettybadass.

DaveAsprey: HerunsSEALFit,soifyou'relisteningandyouhaven'tcheckedoutMark'swork,youshouldcheckitout,becausehe'llkickyourassinagoodwaywithsomeofhisworkoutprogramsandhismeditationstuff.It'sverylegitimate,andit'scoolyoubroughtupTony,youbroughtupMark,allthese-That'sthethirdMarkontheshowthatwasreallysuccessful,sothere'ssomethingaboutthenameMarkthatmakesyousuccessfulandtoughIguess.

TomBilyeu: Verytrue.Right?

DaveAsprey: Idon'tknow.Now,Iwasgoingtoaskyoutopthreerecommendationsforkickingassatlifesoyoucanbemorebulletproof,butIthinkyoujustansweredthosewhenIwastalkingaboutyourmindsethacks.Isthereanythingelseyou'daddtothatlist?Ifsomeonecametoyoutomorrowandwaslike,"Look,Tom,Iwanttoperformbetterateverythingasahumanbeing.What'sthemostimportant?"Whatwouldyoutellthem?

TomBilyeu: Yeah.I'llgiveyoutwomore.One,self-talkmatterssomuchIcan'ttellyou.Gettingreallygoodatself-talk.Thatisprobablythemostoverlookedthinginsuccess.Thepeoplethatreallygoontodosomethingspecialarepeoplethatcanself-soothevery,veryquickly,sotheyknowhowtotalkthemselvesthrough

adifficulttime,thatitdoesn'tbecomeamajorstumblingblock.Theydon'tgetstuckinsomething,thattheycanquicklymovepastemotionaldefeat.That'sjustreally,reallyimportant.

Thentheotheris,alwaysbereading.I'mahugebelieverinbooks,andIknowyouhaveanewbook,whichweshouldbepromotingrightnow.Youhaveacopyyoucanputonscreen?

DaveAsprey: Headstrong.

TomBilyeu: Dude,honestly,peopleshouldreadit.Reading,reading,reading,becausetheycannowlearnwhat'stakenyou20plusyearstolearn.Theycanreaditinlikeaweek.It'scrazy.Ilovethat,andI'msogratefultoeveryauthorthat'severtakenthetimetosharetheirnotion,andwhenIthinkaboutwhathasallowedculturetoacceleratesorapidly,it'sthat,right?There'ssomuchknowledgeouttherethatnow,especiallywiththeinternet,anythingyouwanttolearnabout,andinfact,somethingthatIamdedicatedtobecomingoneoftheworld'sforemostexpertsonrightnow,becauseIneededtohelpmewife,willresonatewithyou,becauseyoualreadyareoneoftheworld'sforemostexpertsonthis,whichisthemicrobiome.

DaveAsprey: Oh,nice.

TomBilyeu: Mywifestruggledvery,veryprofoundlywiththat,anditwasjustunbearabletowatchher,anditwasmakingmefeellikeafailureasahusbandthatIwasn'tabletosolvethisproblem,andsofinallyIjustsaid,"Thedoctorsaren'thelping.Theyallhavetheirareaofexpertise.They'renottakingafunctionalapproachtothis,soI'mjustgoingtohavetolearnaboutitmyself."Iwentinhardcore,juststartedreadingprimers,anddefiningeverytermIcameacrossthatIdidn'tunderstand,andnowgettingtothepointwhereI'mactuallybeginningtounderstandthestuff,tothepointwherenowIwouldhaveknownbetternottogotoadoctorunlessthey'realreadyinthisarea,andreallycanunderstandit.

Thatnotionof,don'tjustreadtoaimlesslyread.I'mtalkingaboutpickingsomethingthatyouwanttogetgreatat,goingdeep,researching,learning,andthenexecutingagainstwhatyou'relearning.

DaveAsprey: Beautiful.Thatwasagreatpieceofadvice,andthewayyouputittherearound,look,you'regettingthousandsandthousandsofhourscompressedintolikefourhoursofreading.Thereturnoninvestmentthereisactuallyhigherthanforlisteningtothisepisode,justbecause-

TomBilyeu: It'scrazy.

DaveAsprey: Everywordyouwrite,itisamplifiedsomuchthatyouwritereallycarefullyifyou'rewritinga,quote,"realbook."Doyouhaveabookcomingoutsometime?

TomBilyeu: Ido.Itshouldbeoutsomewherebetweensummerandfallof2018.

DaveAsprey: Allright.Wellwhenthetimecomes,I'llhaveyoubackontheshowsowecantalkaboutyourbook,becauseI'msureit'llbefascinating.You'rethinkingaboutandstructuringinformationaboutthingsthathavehelpedyougetwhereyouare,andsharingitinareallyimpactfulway,almostlikeyouhaveanImpactTheory.

TomBilyeu: [crosstalk]

DaveAsprey: Iappreciatethataboutyou,andthanksforbeingonBulletproofRadio.Itwasreallyfuntoconnectwithyouagain,andtogettodiginsideyourheadandseewhatyou'vedone,andtoprovidesomerealactionabletipsforpeople,sothankyou.

TomBilyeu: Awesome.Thanksforhavingmeon,man.Itreallywasanhonor.

DaveAsprey: WherecanpeoplefindoutmoreaboutImpactTheory?

TomBilyeu: @TimBilyeu.TheshowreleasesonmyYouTubechannel,soforwardslashTomBilyeuinthecaseofYouTube,butyeah.I'mthere,Facebook,Instagram,Twitter,allatTomBilyeu,andI'mveryactivesocially.It'sactuallyme,soifyougetalikeoracomment,aresponse,anything,it'sactuallyme.

DaveAsprey: Cool.Haveanawesomeday.

TomBilyeu: Thanks,man.Youtoo.

DaveAsprey: Ifyoulikedtoday'sepisode,there'sacouplethingsyoucando.Numberone,gotoBulletproof.com/iTunesandjustit'lltakeyouliterallyonesecond.Leaveareview.Justclickthestar,andsay,"Thisshowmatters.Igotsomethinggoodoutoftoday'sepisode."That'llhelpotherpeoplefindit,andyou'llactuallydoasolidforme.You'lldoasolidforeveryoneelsewhoseesit.Sametime,whileyou'reatit,youcangotoAmazonandpickupacopyofHeadstrong.Ifyoualreadyhaveacopy,leaveareview.It'soneofthesimplestthingsyoucando.Ireadallthereviews.Itreallymatters,becausewhenpeopleseeareview,ittellsthemthatit'sworththeirfourhourstoreadthebooktogetthe10,000plushoursthatwentintothebook.Butifyoudon'ttalkaboutit,they'relike,"Idon'tknow.ShouldIreadit?ShouldInotreadit?"SoI'dappreciateitifyou'dgoandyou'ddothatnow.JustgotoAmazonandlookup"Headstrong"andleaveareview.