remington 11 shotgun

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A COLLECTOR'S GUIDE TO ed. This is the probable reason for the semiau- tomatic military shotgun being shelved after WWII although no documentation has been found confirming this. Model Il and Sportsman Training Shotguns The details regarding the semiautomatic Model Il and Sportsman training guns are the same as the riot guns except for the longer bar- rels. Most of the skeetltrap guns were fitted with 26" barrels although some may be found with longer lengths. Many of these guns were equipped with the Cutts Compensator adjustable choke devices. N avy ordnance records indicate that 1,760 Cutts Compensators were fitted to Remington Model l1s in Febru- ary, 1944. A collector wishing to acquire a Remington semiautomatic military training shotgun originally equipped with the Cutts Compensator should be aware of the fact that these guns did not have choke markings stamped on the barrels. As with the riot guns, the earliest Model Il training shotguns were acquired under the Blan- ket Procurement Program. These guns were standard commercial production shotguns with such features as highly polished metal parts, engraved receivers and checkered wood. The guns pressed into government service generally had "U.S." and, often, flaming bomb emblems stamped on the receivers. Some of the stocks were cartouched. The guns man directly under government contra ished and marked exactly as foo Model Il military riot guns. These guns were widely used b. Navy during WWII for both aeri training and for informal or recreatio ing. These guns are commonly found are generally priced quite reasonabl s: cussed, a collector will òccasion across a government issue Model Il man training shotgun which has bee into riot gun configuration by shorte . barrel. The choke markings on the le the barrel will quickly identify su Unlike most of the other shotguns de viously, few, if any, of the long barrel _ or Sportsman guns were converted nance auspices to riot guns. If any of were arsenal converted, one would e find the "Full" or "Improved cylinder" marking lined out and the "Cyl" stam to it as commonly done on the other ::= ment converted shotguns. A Model Il 20" barrel and full choke markings on is certainly a bogus riot gun and h avoided for collecting purposes. or such guns would be fine sporting o defense weapons. The Model Il (inc1uding the Sports the most commonly found WWll military Remington Mll Sportsman skeet/trap/training shotgun. The semiautomatic shotgun was widely usedfo ing purposes during WWIl and a number were produced in riot gun configurationfor combat/guard use. credit TM 9-285) 128

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Page 1: remington 11 shotgun

A COLLECTOR'S GUIDE TO

ed. This is the probable reason for the semiau-tomatic military shotgun being shelved afterWWII although no documentation has beenfound confirming this.

Model Il and Sportsman Training ShotgunsThe details regarding the semiautomatic

Model Il and Sportsman training guns are thesame as the riot guns except for the longer bar-rels. Most of the skeetltrap guns were fittedwith 26" barrels although some may be foundwith longer lengths. Many of these guns wereequipped with the Cutts Compensatoradjustable choke devices. N avy ordnancerecords indicate that 1,760 Cutts Compensatorswere fitted to Remington Model l1s in Febru-ary, 1944. A collector wishing to acquire aRemington semiautomatic military trainingshotgun originally equipped with the CuttsCompensator should be aware of the fact thatthese guns did not have choke markingsstamped on the barrels.

As with the riot guns, the earliest Model Iltraining shotguns were acquired under the Blan-ket Procurement Program. These guns werestandard commercial production shotguns withsuch features as highly polished metal parts,engraved receivers and checkered wood. Theguns pressed into government service generallyhad "U.S." and, often, flaming bomb emblemsstamped on the receivers. Some of the stocks

were cartouched. The guns mandirectly under government contraished and marked exactly as fooModel Il military riot guns.

These guns were widely used b.Navy during WWII for both aeritraining and for informal or recreatioing. These guns are commonly foundare generally priced quite reasonabl s:

cussed, a collector will òccasionacross a government issue Model Ilman training shotgun which has beeinto riot gun configuration by shorte .barrel. The choke markings on the lethe barrel will quickly identify suUnlike most of the other shotguns deviously, few, if any, of the long barrel _or Sportsman guns were convertednance auspices to riot guns. If any ofwere arsenal converted, one would efind the "Full" or "Improved cylinder"marking lined out and the "Cyl" stamto it as commonly done on the other ::=

ment converted shotguns. A Model Il20" barrel and full choke markings onis certainly a bogus riot gun and havoided for collecting purposes. orsuch guns would be fine sporting odefense weapons.

The Model Il (inc1uding the Sportsthe most commonly found WWll military

Remington Mll Sportsman skeet/trap/training shotgun. The semiautomatic shotgun was widely usedfoing purposes during WWIl and a number were produced in riot gun configurationfor combat/guard use.credit TM 9-285)

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SHOTGUNS

World War II Savage Model 720 Riot Gun. This gun is very similar to the Remington Modelll. Other than themarkings, the key points OJ identification are the finger graove on the forend, the slightly more elongated pistolgrip and the "bead on ramp" front sight.

gun today. Large numbers of the riot guns weredisposed of on the surplus market after WWIIor given to police departments around the coun-try. As is the case with the other D.S. militaryshotguns, prices of nice Model lls are begin-ning to rise quite rapidly. This model stillremains generally reasonably priced and is avery interesting and col1ectible weapon.

Savage Model 720(See Table #17)

Riot GunsThe only other semiautomatic shotgun pro-

cured by the D.S. War Department duringWorld War II was Savage's Model 720. Thisweapon was essentially the same gun as theBrowning designed Remington Model Il butwas made under license by the Savage ArmsCorporation.

The basic design and operation of the Modelno was exactly like the ModellI. Interesting-ly, however, not many of the parts are inter-changeable between the two guns. Unlike theModel Il, the Model no barrels were not seri-ally numbered to the receiver.

Available records indicate that a total of justover 14,500 Model nos (both riot and trainingguns) were delivered to the government in 1943and 1944. The approximate seria! number rangeof the government procured Model 720 shot-guns is:

#69,400 - #88,500The same caveat as mentioned regarding the

other serial number ranges in this book must bestressed once again. The above range of num-bers is based strictly on the observation of alimited number of MnO military shotguns andis not intended to be an all-inclusive list.

At a glance, it is easy to mistake a SavageModel 720 for a Remington Model Il. Onequick way to ascertain the difference is toobserve that the Savage buttstocks have asomewhat greater drop and a slightly moreelongated pistol grip. The same type ofunmarked plastic buttplate as used on Stevens'

.Models 520-30 and 620A slide action shotgunswas fitted to the MnO. Another distinguishingfeature of the MnO's wood is the finger grooveon the forend which does not appear on thelater issue Remington military issue guns. Bothcheckered and plain forends have been noted on

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World War II Semiautomatic Riot Guns; (top to bottom) Remington Modelll, Remington Sportsman, and Sav-age Model 720. Al! three guns were based on Browning's patent. Note the groovedforend and the slightly larg-er pistol grip ofthe Savage gun.

Training GunsA collector may occasionally observe a Rem-

ington ModellO training shotgun. These gunsgenerally have the same characteristics as themilitary riot guns but will have skeet/traplength barrels. As with the martially markedriot guns, these military training Model lOs arenot rare but cannot be considered as extremelycommon. As with the riot gun, no Model lOtraining guns were manufactured after the1920s and the few still around in 1941 were notused very long before being replaced by eitherrebuilt Wirìchester Model 97 or Model 12 train-ing guns or by new production shotguns.

It can be argued if the Model lO should evenbe properly classified as a WWII combat shot-gun since it saw very little stateside duty during

the war before its quick removal from service.No Model lO shotguns are believed to havebeen employed in combat roles overseas duringthe Second World War. However, since theweapon was listed as a standard issue weaponat the start of WWII, it should be mentioned inthis discussion. Practically speaking, the Model10's glory days actually ended in France withthe coming ofthe Armistice in 1918.

Semiautomatic Combat Shotguns

Remington Model Il(See Table #16)

While most of the semiautomatic shotgunsprocured by the govemment during WWII wereutilized for gunnery training programs and

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stock or a mismatchedtouche does not have icollectors prefer Modelstock cartouche and such ~higher prices than guns wi

The recei vers of the goModel Il shotguns were 00 ..•• 14ing. The metal was fini il"brushed" blu e indicati e othe final meta! po1ishing toas mandated by the Ordnreceivers were stamped . ~"'1..I.J~."

on the left side. Apparently,such a disc1aimer was necepost-war customers wouldhasty workmanship wouldcompany's guns made afterthe Model Il riot guns werewhich inc1uded parkerizationfactory parkerized shotgun arebeen made although someobserved the rebuilt guns andish" marking and conc1udedtainly refer to the parkerizeassumption, while logical, i 11- lC(J".

ed previously, there is absoluteljany WWII military shotgunished in anything other than bluelate production Winchester Mearlier) although, as we ha eof the blued finish could vary.

There were two different eblocks associated with the miliModel Il shotguns. The followingranges have been observed:

#455000 - #500000#700000 - #712000

The reason for the two distinct -ranges of the rnilitary Rernington _not been discovered and is perhapsa! in that all of the guns were maa three year periodo The very ear .

A COLLECTOR'S GUIDE TO

some informal recreational shooting purposes,some of these arms were also made in riot gunconfiguration. The largest number of theseweapons were Remington Modellls.

The earliest Remington Model Il militaryriot guns were simply commercial productionshotguns (many acquired under the BlanketProcurement), either riot type guns or sportingguns with shortened barrels and martial mark-ings added. These guns are very easy to identifyas they will have the typical highly polishedcommercial blued finish, engraved "gamescenes" and other metal engraving and check-ered stocks. The martial markings varied quite abit but generally consisted of a small "U.S."and ordnance flarning bomb stamped on the leftside of the receiver and usualIy an inspector'scartouche on the left side of the stock. Some ofthese converted civilian guns have beenobserved with "U.S. Navy" stamped on the -receiver.

The Model Il riot guns manufactured undergovemment contract are unrnistakably combatweapons. They will be found with plain,unadorned walnut stocks (no checkering orother embelIishments). Most of the stocks werestamped "FJA" (inspector Col. Frank J.Atwood, Chief of the Rochester Ordnance Dis-trict following Col. Bowlin) and the ordnance"crossed cannons" escutcheon. Some stocks,especially on the early converted commercialguns, have been noted with only the "crossedcannons" stampo A few military Model Il shot-guns which appear to be all original do not haveany sort of stock cartouche at alI. Many of thernilitary Model Il stocks were stamped with thegun's serial number in the tang recess. If a stockof a rnilitary issue Model Il had a serial num-ber matching the receiver, then it can beassumed that the gun is original even if the car-touche is rnissing. It can be safely assumed thata Model Il without a serial number inside the

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Early WWII production Remington Model Il Riot Gun. Note the engraved receiver and cheekered buttstockJorend with grasping grooves.

ceiver oJ early production WWIl Remingtonodel Il riot gun. This gun retains the engravedeiver game scene and was finished in an attrae-commerciai grade polished blue .

. al stock eartouehe as Jound on WWII contractington Model Il and Sportsman shotguns.

.-\ ., is inspeetor Col. Frank J. Atwood.

Typical martial markings on top of the barrels ofWWII Remington Model l I and Sportsman shotgunsmanuJactured under government contraet.

Reeeiver markings on military eontraet WWII Rem-ington Model l l and Sportsman shotguns .

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A COLLECTOR'S GUIDE TO

guns acquired under the Blanket Procurementprogram may be of any pre- WWII serial num-ber and no definite ranges have been noted.

Since the only real difference between theModel Il riot guns and the training guns wasthe barrel length, a collector wishing to acquirean example of an original issue riot gun mustexamine the weapon very closely to ascertainthat the shotgun in question is not a cut-downtraining gun. The Remington Model Il riotgun, like the Model 31 and the Winchester shot-guns, was marked on the left side of the barrel"CYL" indicating the cylinder bore barrelfound on original riot guns. As with some ofthe other guns discussed, a collector mayencounter an arsenal converted Model Il riotgun which has had the original choke markinglined out and the "CYL" marking added. Thisshould be examined in minute detail to deter-mine that the quality of this remarking is up togovernment arsenal standards. A crudely linedout and restamped marking is not indicative ofarsenal work.

In addition to the "CYL" stamping, Reming-ton marked the left side of the barrels of their

military shotguns (just in frwith a cryptic code consistingletters. This code is believemonth and year that the wetured. Next to the date msmall heart or anchor shstamped. The specific pis not known and is presof Remington factory inspec .

The barrels of the Modeserially numbered to the I1

serial number can be foundbarrel just behind the m~_~_can only be seen with thethe receiver. Obviousreceiver/barrel serial numthat the gun was not all origli"cause to evaluate the desweapon for collecting purposes

Remington Sportsman RiA variant of the Reminsi ••

gun was the Sportsmwas essentially identifor a three round capa . _

Side View of WWII Remington Model 11 Riot Gun barrel markings. The ··01..originai cylinder bore which is correct Jor riot guns. The "AMM" is a factor.year of manuJacture (March, 1943 on this example).

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SHOTGUNS

or II production Remington Riot Guns; (top) Modelll, (bottom) Sportsman. Note the differences in••. coetieuration oJ the Jorend and the magazine tube cap on the guns. The Mll had a capacity oJfive rounds

Sportsman three rounds.

d in the M11. The Sportsman can be dis-_ .shed from the Model Il as it had a slight-

- erent shaped forend and magazine tubee to the smaller magazine capacity. The

was marked "Sportsman" rather than••••• :nrt ••l 11".

t of the Rernington Sportsman shotgunsral~red by the rnilitary during WWII were uti-

as training weapons and, like the Modelnumber were fitted with adjustable choke

- es. There were, perhaps surprisingly, quite. riot gun variants of the Sportsman alsocedo One would assume that the three shot

._, •.xtsman would not have been as popular asfive shot Model Il with combat troops.

The points of identification of the Sportsmanthe Model Il are the same except for the

ve-rnentioned forend, magazine tube capbolt marking. Both guns shared the sameof brushed blued finish, unadorned plainut stocks and martial markings, including

JA." stock cartouches. The military Sports-

man riot gun seems to be a little less commonthan the Model Il but prices and demand areabout equal between the two variants.

Given the desirability of the semiautomaticdesign, it is somewhat curious why the rnilitarywould choose to abandon these shotguns afterthe war but that is precisely what occurred. Aswe have discussed, only the Winchester Model12 and the Stevens Models 520-30 and 620Awere officially retained as standard after 1945.There are no known Ordnance Department doc-uments detailing the reasons for this decision. Itis possib1e that the inability of these guns tomount a bayonet was one of the reasons but thisdid not seem to cause any problems during thewar. It has been suggested that the serniauto-matic may not have been as reliable as the slideaction mechanism in the mud and grit commonto battlefields. The Rernington Model Il designhas proven to be dependable but it is true thatthe slide action can handle more abuse and dirtwithout its functioning being adversely affect-

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