one god one hammer

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One God, One Hammer

A summary of my experience and knowledge of the God Thor

The Count von Count

Expert at RTS-Sanctuary

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Index:

1. Th(f)oreword

2. Competitive Thor-play. What do the facts say?

- Thor in the actual Top 20

- Thor in tournaments

- Thor in RTSL

3. Th(e)ory. My view of Thor.

- Building orders

- God paths

- Countering

- Fan-Patch 2.1

4. Game Analyses. Pro-decision-making.

- The Count von Count vs DuduTheSpartan

- The Count von Count vs Seattle

- J4Jc3 & FireFox vs Armycore & Berserker

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Foreword

Lately a friend of mine (MpT_Brewster) opened a topic on RTS-Sanctuary about Thor.

He took notice of the small amount of Thor expert replays being posted. He also asked

how that came. It made me think.

Four years ago I rarely played other gods but Thor. I liked him the most and he was

considered as one of the stronger gods. However, beside the fact I was camping in the

Top 20, I never reached the Top 1 spot.

One day I decided to make a new nickname, TheSoothingLight. I betrayed my own god

and picked Loki to get 1900 and eventually Isis to beat Adhafang and became the Top 1

fairly easy. All of this happened within two weeks.

I never lost my true love for Thor even though I prefer playing Isis/Oranos in

competitive games nowadays. But how accurate is that decision actually?

In this guide I will show you the facts of competitive play and Ill take you through all the

knowledge I have of Thor. At the end, another expert Thor-player, DoD_J4Jc3 and I

analyzed some of our own games to share our experience with you!

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Competitive Thor play: What do the facts say?

In this topic I will show you some statistics of Thor. How good is Thor when looking at

the facts?

Top 20)

Lets start with actual top20. Today (the day of writing) is Tuesday the third of

December. How many of these players play Thor as their main god?

1 OLDHOLBORN 2160 Zeus

2 [DoD_]TheMistaGreco 2111 Zeus

3 TheMistaGreek 2042 Zeus

4 Ghostlake 2039 Poseidon

5 Breekachu 2031 Loki

6 [DoD_]DoD_FireFox 2024 Ra

7 [mG_]RaNgErS 2007 Set

8 [DoD_]N1NHO 1993 Isis

9 mago05 1992 Oranos

10 [MpT_]Swedish_Chef 1990 Poseidon

11 [MpT_]mErt_ 1989 Ra

12 [ AoD_]AoD_Amezy_Arak 1986 Loki

13 [IDF]DuduTheSpartan 1984 Set

14 [ArF_]Adhafang 1981 Greek

15 [MpT_]_Elmo 1963 Zeus

16 XAthenaX 1962 Zeus

17 Dlehniem 1961 Poseidon

18 [XpT]ArmyCore 1959 Oranos

19 OneGodOneHammer 1958 Isis

20 [MpT_]Ert_ 1952 Ra

None of the actual Top 20 players is playing Thor as his main god. Is Thor out of the

meta? Or is it just a coincidence?

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Thor-picks when money is involved)

Also the amount of Thor players in tournaments is shocking. I have been analyzing the

finals of the bigger tournaments (cash-wise) hosted within the last two years (excl.

random god tournaments). Here are the data.

Tourney Winner Loser

Amount of Gods picked

Amount of Thor picked

Boit 100subs. (Nov 2013) Count v Count

Swedish Chef 6 0

Expert Inv. (Sep 2013) Themista Ghostlake 6 0

PK tournement. (Jun 2013) Armycore Spoeft 6 0

Holiday Turbo (Dec 2012) Magyar Themista 8 0

Last God Standing (Jul 2011) Armycore Spoeft 6 0

In how many games has thor been used? And how about other gods? 32 0

In the last three years 7 different finalists have been picking 32 gods. However none of

them decided to pick Thor. Not even once! The last time Thor has been involved in a

RTS-tourney final, was in 2008. Nemesis chose to play Thor versus Dantes( Sonic) Isis.

Unfortunately he didnt win a single game.

RTSL-Finals)

Nevertheless lots of people used to think Thor is pretty strong in team games. To get a

good view on Thors performance in team games, I analyzed the last 5 seasons of RTSL-

Finals.

Season Winner Loser

Amount of Gods picked

Amount of Thor picked

Amount of Games with Thor

Amount of games Thor won?

20 LNC MpT 17 1 1 0

19 LNC DoD 11 2 2 0

18 TSM mG 10 0 0 0

17 mG DoD 6 2 2 0

16 DoD - A DoD - B 9 3 2 2

53 8 7 2

In total 62 gods had to be picked in the finals of the last five RTSL seasons. 8 times

people decided to take Thor. Thats a pretty good status considering the zero picks in

1vs1 tourneys. However the winning percentage of games including Thor is significant.

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With a winning percentage of 28.5% we can conclude Thor isnt a good pick in team

games either.

The facts are clear. Thor is one of the weakest gods in the game. There are literally no

Thor players in the top20 left. Neither has Thor been picked in tournament finals.

Also the common knowledge that Thor is strong in team games seems to be pretty

biased. Besides quite a fair picking percentage, its proven that Thor did not even win

one out of the three games played in RTSL-Finals.

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Theory

Everyone has his own opinions about what is good about his god. In this topic, I will give

a subjective view of Thors strengths and weaknesses. My statements in this topic arent

based on facts, but on my own experience playing him.

Build Orders)

First of all, let us start with some basics about Thor. There are 5 Different build orders I

would like to share with you. I illustrate the BOs with recorded games posted at RTS-

Sanctuary.

Thor-Rush (3:50)

Use: Atlantean, Norse, Forward goldmine

Rcx example: http://rts-sanctuary.com/The-

Titans/fview=4&showtopic=133852entry1515360

Tips and Tricks: Make a forward temple and spam as many units as possible. Make sure

your opponent cant hunt outside his base, burn down his forests and make sure he

resigns when his 3000 goldmine collapses.

6-5-5-Raid (4:40)

Use: Open maps, Raiding, Greek

Rcx example: http://rts-sanctuary.com/The-Titans/showtopic=227283

Tips and Tricks: Build defensive and aim on raiding. Spam horses and make your second

settlement before the 10 minute mark.

8-5-5 (5:10)

Use: Booming, Egyptian, non-aggressive team games



Tips and Tricks: Make a second TC as soon as possible. Just defend well and aim for a

massive ragnarok!

Grush: (4:10)

Use: Mediterranean, aggressive water play



Tips and Tricks: Spam boats, use forest fire asap, micro and win water!

Two-Docks: (5:10)

Use: Anatolia, Highland and Midgard.



Tips and Tricks: Win/defend water and prepare for a massive boom. Make as many

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Most people insta pick Bragi without

even watching the particular situation

they are in. Personally I pick Bragi if I

need a breakthrough, or if I aim for

ragnarok. Battle Boars are strong. But I

prefer giants. The ulfsark-upgrades are

alright, although ulfsarks suck anyhow.

fishing ships as possible and keep the tech-researches rolling!

Minor god-picks)

Another question lots of people asked me is what minor-gods they should pick. Of

course thats different in any case. Hereby an overview of Thors minorgods.

There are two reasons why I would pick

Forseti. Firstly because of the Trolls. They

cost wood and not much favor. Which

means, they are easily spammable on every

map.

The other reason I would go Forseti is

because of the Hersir-upgrade. Its very

useful if you have to fight vs Lokis myths or

the A+E combo. I pick Forseti in the

following cases:

- facing Loki on land

- facing Isis on land

- facing Hades/Zeus low-hunt

Personally I think Freya is in almost every

case the better choice. Valks are really

strong and useful. Thats why I also prefer

Freya above Forseti against Atleantean.

Furthermore Freyas godpower can be

really handy and give you an advantage

early on. Especially when you are playing

a watermap.

The cavalry upgrade Freya has, is also

quite good. Definitely more useful than

Forsetis ulf-upgrade.

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Skadi, on the other hand is the

minor god I prefer to pick as my

heroic choice. Her god power is

really good. It can be used

aggressively, but defensively as

well. In team games you can pick

Skadi to help your teammate or

prevent your own opponent

from doubling.

Also frost-gaints are a real pain

in the ass. They have a lot of

armor and hitpoints. And of

course, they have a great special.

In mythic age, there is only one

god you can pick. Its Baldr.

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Counters and Countering)

In what case do I pick Thor? In the table below I give you an overview of every matchup

Thor could possibly get in. This table is based on my own experience with Thor.

When I think there is no way Thor can win a matchup, I give it a 0. On the other hand, I

give a 10 if I feel like the matchup is free win for Thor. When I give the matchup a 5, the

game should be equal.

Zeus Hades Pos Isis Set Ra Loki Odin Oranos Kronos Gaia

Medit 1 3 3 2 3 5 7 7 4 3 4

Highland 0 3 4 3 1 4 8 7 5 3 8

Anatolia 3 5 6 3 4 6 6 8 6 5 8

Midgard 3 5 6 3 3 5 5 8 7 7 8

Alfheim 3 3 4 3 3 2 2 5 3 3 6

Ghostlake 2 5 6 3 3 4 3 6 3 4 7

Oasis 3 4 5 4 3 3 3 7 4 4 7

Savannah 3 4 5 5 2 4 3 6 4 4 7

WH 2 5 6 6 4 5 3 8 6 6 9

Marsh 3 5 7 6 3 4 2 8 5 6 9

Tundra 2 4 6 4 2 3 2 7 3 4 7

Average 2,27 4,18 5,3 3,8 2,8 4 4 7 4,54 4,45 7,27

Thor is good against:

- Gaia: Thor sucks vs early aggression. Gaia cant play really aggressive nor defend rag.

- Odin: Thor is a stronger variation of Odin. Also Bragi is really good in Rag-wars.

- Poseidon: Low-hunt and Medi will be hard. All other maps are fine.

Thor is playable against:

- Oranos: Water maps and hunt maps are fine. Low-hunt however is a pain in the ass.

- Kronos: Deconstruction can really slow you down and a good krush is rough to beat.

- Hades: Tox are OP. But hades does not have early siege so Thor can survive and try rag.

Thor is bad against:

- Loki: Myths units cant be countered. Especially Einherjar rock da house in early game.

- Ra: SS, Roc, Walls and Mercs. Horrible matchup. Only watermaps are playable.

- Isis: You might win if you can manage to hit Rag. There is no other way to fight Isis.

- Set: SS, Ancestors, Shaduff, Mercs and Early animal attack. Just resign.

- Zeus: Bolt, Mino, unkillable siege in Classic and a strong late game. If you manage to

win Zeus go straight to RTS-Sanctuary and ego-post.

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Fan patch)

Recently Fan-patch 2.1 has been released. The main goal of this fan-patch is to make this

game more balanced. What has been changed? And what does it mean for Thor? Lets

take a look!

In the following table I have put every change that directly effects Thor strategic

decision making. The green chances are positive, and the red ones have a negative

influence on Thor.

General Thor Crennelations nerf Makes it easier to raid

Walls nerf Easier to raid, harder to protect against rag

Rag + FW nerf Ragnarok and Flaming weapons can't siege anymore

TA Boost Thor can fight better vs hops, spears and murmilo's

Eggy vs Thor Roc-speed nerf Towers can hit Rocs now

Roc - HP nerf Roc die more easy Roc - Hack armor nerf TA deal more damage to rocs now

Dock less HP Land army can kill Eggy docks on anatolia or Highland

Watchtower upgrate Eggy's can be rushed/raided much easier

Atlantean vs Thor Ora speed nerf Less easy to raid as atleantean

Shockwave-stun nerf Better chances due fights vs ora Heart of the titan boost/Gaias hero cost reduce

Gaia can make cheaper hero's now and isnt a free win anymore.

Greek vs Thor Zeus Inf. Nerf Zeus can't siege-rush as good as he use to do

Tireme Nerf Less range. Easier to micro at water

Bolt nerf Bolts can't kill ulfs. Makes Anatolia & highland are less worse

Overal many changes impacting Thors-playstyle. Picking fights vs Oranos became

possible (TA bonus), double ulfs vs Zeus on watermaps isnt necessary anymore and

Egyptian became rushable/raidable again. I havent played any games with the new

patch yet, but it seems promising for Thor players.

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Game analytics

The Count von Count vs Duduthespartan

http://rts-sanctuary.com/The-Titans/showtopic=227286entry2435111

I have a couple of games I want to share with

you. Lets start with one of the worse matchup

Thor can get. Thor vs Set on low hunt. This is a

game I lately played against Duduthespartan.

Before the game started he already flamed me,

because I was counter-civing him by picking

Thor. So I decided punish him for his bad

behavior.

Key points:

1) First of all I decided to get two ulfs. On low

hunt you need as much sheep as possible.

2) Secondly I went for an extra dwarf on gold early in the game. This way I could get

more gold to get some walls up as soon as possible.

3) He used his vision early on, so he needs hyenas or pharaoh to scout for his Shifting

Sands. I try to prevent that by walling my food in.

4) I decide to age rather late, since my walls keep him away from my hunt. He cant

really catch me off guard, so I prefer a strong eco above a fast uptime.

5) He plays quite aggressive with some spearmen. Thats totally fine with me. I just make

some army as well and try to make counter units (TA vs Spears). My starting-gold will

collapse soon so I need an army to claim a new one. Otherwise I would prefer to build a

second town center as soon as

possible.

6) The game goes on and I think of

gold-starving him. However, he had a

really good map with a huge

backward-goldmine next to his

backward TC. So I decided to do

something odd and steal his

backward settlement. This way he

cant use the backward goldmine.

7) I go for a full-dwarfeco. Pretty

effective since I have no hunt.

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8) Of course he wants his backward settlement back, so he is focusing that spot. It gives

me time to rebuild. Now I have to think of a plan to get back in this game.

9) We are 17 minutes in game, I scout the amount of farms he has. He only got 13 farms.

Which means, he will be making Chariots and siege towers. He wont have any food to

produce anything else. So I anticipate and make huskarls + BBs. It works pretty well and

I kill quite a few of his chariots and suffer only a few losses.

10) The game goes on and he can

make counter units. Which sucks for

me so I go straight for Baldr. To

make my rag even stronger I mix

Rams into my army. Even tho they

suck balls and have hack-armor, its

the best siege Thor got

11) As you can see on this mini-map I have been

raiding all his goldmines with my heroes. To

make sure he is not trading either, I wall of his

home-town and forward camp. This way he cant

make any priest, mercs or towers

You can also see me having quite a nice trade. Its

time to finish him.

12) HUEUEUE,

FIREGAINTS TOO STRONK

GG NO RE

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The Count von Count vs Seattle)

http://rts-sanctuary.com/The-Titans/showtopic=227289entry2435115

Once again I face Set. This time its DoD_Seattle. Luckily for me I got watering-hole, which

is one of the better maps in this matchup. In this game-analysis I explain the way

Ragnarok should be used properly.

He starts the game with some early aggression. I have to upgrade my towers and back

off my hunt. My economy is rather hurt, and he decided to go for a 3tc boom. I follow up,

but cant boom as strong as he can. When he hits heroic, he launches a non-stop attack

on my forward settlement. I freeze

his army to delay his attack, but my

economy cant compete with his. He

eventually breaks through. There is

only one thing I can do now.

Ragnarok! :D

This is his defense line at the

moment I use my Ragnarok. He

clearly has a good economy

Furthermore I dont have flaming

weapons nor Rams to siege his

migdol + tower lame.

When I saw his defense, I had to

make a plan. So I decided to attack

somewhere else.

1) His backward town center in the

left bottom of the map is one of

these weak-spots. Beside the two

towers, he has no defensive

units/buildings close to it.

This TC also is the key to his

economy. 50% his farms are placed

next to this town center. But most

important, it is the TC he uses to

trade with.

2) I dont want to face endless Merc-floods, so I run straight to his trade.

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3) Furthermore I search for his goldmines. One is next to his backward settlement.

Another one is next to his trade and the last mine lays just behind his forward

settlement. The settlement is also the gather point for the rest of his food-industry. So

have to kill that town-center as

well.

My strategy works pretty well.

These are his resources at 25 min

(4min after casting Ragnarok). The

strong economy he useed to have this game, became history.

I never fought his army / buildings and just ran straight for his economy. Now it is just a

matter of time before I can kick his ass. Fortunately I have a few ox-caravans to gather

some gold despite the rag. I keep raiding with my ragnarok heroes and make sure he

cant make any trade or gather gold at all.

When my economy is rolling again, I

finish the job with some fire giants and

Balista-ships. When he sees that I am

fully recovered, he forfeits.

I would like to remind you that Ragnarok-heroes suck against buildings. You really need

flaming weapons to break buildings. In my opinion its best to use ragnarok to demolish

the economy of your opponent.

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[DoD_]J4Jc3 & [DoD_]FireFox vs [XpT]ArmyCore & AoL_Berserker)- Written by DoD_]J4Jc3

http://rts-sanctuary.com/The-Titans/fview=4&showtopic=227042entry2433569

The game starts with me noticing my horrible forward

goldmine against a Kronos and a Thor. Considering this is a

team game and my partner is Ra, this gold mine leads to an

insta loss. Why is that? No matter who my opponent is, a

good Kronos will either attack or double me on that gold

mine, which will put me on defensive. Afterwards, the

opponents have both the map and the time to attack my

partner, then move to me, then attack my partner again and

the game is inevitably lost. So in order to prevent this, I save

my dwarven mine and still aim for an advance under 5 mins.

Once they double FF (who also has a forward gold mine), it

is clear that we need to do something in order to regain map control, so FF decided to

vill rush. My role here is basically to keep both players busy, so FF can boom. Therefore,

I disregard their attacks on my town and just constantly attack them while aiming for

ragnarok. Most people think that rag takes no skill. This is true for some sorts of rag, but

it is completely wrong for others. I will enumerate different rag-sorts from least to most

skill, although they are all good in different situations and any Thor players should know

when to use which, instead of focusing on only one:

(i_r_)n00b-Rag: you simply play the game like you always do, spam vills, spam trade

and cast rag. This rag is hardly ever going to finish your opponent, its used to either gain

map control or to cut the opponents trade. It is a very expected rag and used mostly

when your opponent is truly prepared for it. The plan is to use rag as excess pop and

turn the game in your favor considering it will hardly touch your economy.

VonCount-Rag: semi-expected rag with a small trade in order to make fire giants

afterwards. This is a rag which sometimes finishes the opponent immediately, but

mostly it wins the game in the period of 5 mins after the overpopulation has

disappeared. You use it to take out key points in the game, such as gold or trade tcs. You

achieve this rag by playing semi-normally: you cut out the big costs costing food and

trade gold to food for faster advance.

J4-Rag: This rag is based on cutting as much as possible costs in order to achieve a

strong rag as soon as possible. No farms, no unnecessary eco ups, no unnecessary army

or armory ups, no trade, no building upgrades, no necessary tcs either and trading ALL

res to other res for both armory upgrades as mythic age. This is the rag that either wins

or loses the game and comes mostly unexpected, because your play is based on keeping

your opponent busy until rag and not on beating him immediately. You are supposed to

take out your opponents key resources in the first 2 mins of casting rag. If he manages to

beat it, you most likely lost the game. This rag is specifically strong in team games,

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because your partner gains time and can afterwards tribute you the resources in order

to finish the opponent if his partner provided help against your rag.

This last rag was used in this particular game, it cut off their gold, weakened Berserkers

rag by killing his vills and provided time for FF, because they were both trying to beat

the rag. It was based on cutting costs, which reduced the time needed to achieve mythic

age:

These were the upgrades of Berserkers cavalry when I advanced. Now look at the

difference in advance times:

His rag (which is a sort of VonCount-Rag) was much stronger, but had considerably less

impact in this particular game than my J4-rag. Obviously, in other situations, this may be

reversed, everything in this game is situation dependent.

Afterwards, this game was straightforward for any Thor player and the focus shifted on

FF who was the star of the game.

one god one hammer

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