issues and dilemmas in teaching computer science and informatics courses at engineering faculties

Ivan Luković,University of Novi Sad,Faculty of Technical Sciences

12th Workshop DAAD

Issues and Dilemmas in Teaching Computer Science and Informatics Courses at Engineering Faculties

JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.

Issues and Dilemmas• In Teaching CS&I at Engineering Faculties

or

• Is there a pragmatic approach to – Derive commonalities and– Iron differences?

2 / 23JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.

Agenda• Motivation• Scope and Minor Changes• Reaccreditation and Future Steps

JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012. 3 / 23

Motivation• New accreditation process

– 2007 – 1st accreditation cycle at Faculty of Technical Sciences (FTS) and generally in Serbia

– 2012 – the next accreditation cycle comes soon– Always open issue:

How to name and structure Computer Science and Informatics (CS&I) curriculum at FTS

– CS&I as an engineering discipline at engineering faculty?


Scope and Minor Changes• Department of Computing and Control• Three divisions, each of with two chairs

– Control Systems (CSy)– Computer Engineering and Computer

Communications (CE)– Applied Computer Science and Informatics (CS&I)

• Applied Computer Science• Informatics

– Applied – to be formally different from Science disciplines• Formally, Computer Science at Serbian universities is an

exclusive property of faculties of science!– In reality: what is applicable vs. non-applicable in CS?


Scope and Minor Changes• Department of Computing and Control• Titles in diplomas:

– Introduced and classified formally at the level of Republic of Serbia

– Shared with Department of Electronics, Power Systems and Telecommunications

– B.Sc. in Electrical and Computer Engineering– M.Sc. in Electrical and Computer Engineering

– Can be changed ("divided"), but there is no full agreement inside community if it makes sense


Scope and Minor Changes• Department of Computing and Control

– All the time, a unified study program in Computing and Control, but

– Always, three different tracks• Control Systems (CSy), Computer Engineering and

Computer Communications (CE), (Applied) CS&I• Curriculum from 2007

– Almost 2,5 years (5 semesters) common for all three tracks

– non-uniform study program:• courses of the form: 2+2, 2+4, 3+2, 3+3, 4+4, etc.• semesters with 26 – 30 classes / week• different numbers of ECTSs assigned to the equally weighted

courses8 / 23JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.

Scope and Minor Changes• Curriculum from 2010

– Derived from the previous (2007) curriculum by applying "minor changes" – up to 20% of changes• 1st and 4th years unchanged• 2nd and 3rd year changed

– A level of commonality decreased practically to 2 years only

– Study program remains non-uniform



– 1st year:• Calculus 1 (4+4), Discrete Math. and Linear Algebra (4+4),

Program Languages and Data Structures (4+4), Physics (4+4), Fundamentals of Electrical Eng. (4+4), Computer Architecture (4+4), English 1 (3+0), English 2 (3+0)

– 2nd year:• Calculus 2 (4+4), Modelling and Simulation (4+4), Logical

Design of Computer Systems 1 (3+3), Object-Oriented Programming (4+4), Operating Systems (4+4), Automatic Control Systems (4+4), Social Aspects of Engineering (2+2), Probability and Random Processes (2+2), Real Time System Software 1 (3+3)

– 3rd year:• Methods of Optimization (4+4), ... <<elective courses>>



– Main changes (from the viewpoint of CS&I):• Fundamentals of Electronics: became elective course

– raised to the 3rd year• Databases (4th year, 4+3), mandatory for CS&I only:

– divided into two courses: – Databases 1 (3rd year, 4+4), mandatory for all three tracks

(basics, lowered to the 3rd year) and – Databases 2 (4th year, 2+2), mandatory for CS&I only

(advanced)• Soft Computing (4th year, 4+3): introduced as a mandatory

course for CS&I only• Computing Intelligence and Web Programming (3rd year):

extended room


Scope and Minor Changes• Pros:

– Strong mathematics– General Engineering Approach– Early nurtured interdisciplinary approach

• particularly important from the CS&I point of view– Fundamentals of Electrical Engineering – do we need

it in CS&I?• Yes: Titles: Electrical and Computer Engineering• Yes: A strong requirement of industry sector in Novi Sad

– DMS – Development of Power Control Software Systems– one of the biggest consumers of our engineers

– All agree that fundamentals of databases are necessary in the core body of knowledge


Scope and Minor Changes• Contras:

– "Giant" core courses: 4+4• even two math courses together in the same semester

– Non-uniformity of study-program• limited capabilities for exchanging courses and students

– Continuous math approaches are predominant– A believe, existing at CSy and CE, that a number of

CS&I courses is "predominant" in the first two years• 4 CS courses vs. 2 CE courses and 3 CSy courses• they would like to see: 1/3+1/3+1/3 scheme, in any way

– A believe, existing at CS&I, that CS curriculum cannot be created by applying "equal participation" principle• they are strongly against 1/3+1/3+1/3 scheme


Scope and Minor Changes• Already faced dilemmas:

– M.Sc. level – should we accept students from other faculties and disciplines?

– CSy: more rigid approach• just students from University of Belgrade, Faculty of

Electrical Engineering are welcomed– CS&I: quite liberal approach

• a lot of interest of students, graduated with CS or related degree from various faculties and departments at FTS

– in general, very positive current experiences– CE: pragmatically moved from more rigid to more

liberal approach• less interest, but also positive experiences


Reaccreditation and Future Steps• Still open dilemmas for the near future

– One, two or three different study programs?• Personal view:

– Many declaratively propose two or three study programs– In silence, many tends to the unified study program– Different views of younger vs. older colleagues– Different views about a number of common semesters

– If one, should CSy, CE and CS&I participate as 1/3 in the first two years?• Personal view:

– Many declare 1/3 participation as the only solution, instead of a definite separation as the final choice

– In silence, all believe that 1/3 participation is a death principle– September is a key-month to create a decision


Reaccreditation and Future Steps• Study program framework

– Already adopted at the level of the department– B.Sc. Level - 4 years / 8 semesters– M.Sc. Level - 1,5 year / 3 semesters– Courses – just two kinds

• large courses – 6 hours / week in total, 6 ECTS– it allows different combinations: 2+4, 4+2, 3+3

• small courses – 3 hours / week in total, 3 ECTS– it allows different combinations: from 3+0 to 0+3

– Semesters:• 1 hour = 1 ECTS (always)• each semester = 30 hours = 30 ECTS


Reaccreditation and Future Steps• Study program framework

– Already formally adopted at the level of the department

– However, some still believe that it is not appropriate • and even more, that it should be ignored in the next

accreditation process– A positive initiative from the FTS management level

• A category of referenced course is finally introduced– A course in one study program referenced (inherited as-is) from

the other study program– In this way, all courses at FTS may be declared as: public,

protected and private• Finally, a formal basis for increased level of interoperability• Practically, it imposes a general study program framework


Reaccreditation and Future Steps• Still open dilemmas for the near future

– Current: • M.Sc. level: 1 year (2 semesters), 60 ECTS in total • 1st semester – courses (30 ECTS), 2nd semester – M.Sc.

thesis (30 ECTS)– Future, two alternatives:

• M.Sc. level of 1,5 year (3 semesters), 90 ECTS in total– 1st and 2nd semesters – courses, 60 ECTS– 3rd semester – M.Sc. thesis, 30 ECTS

• M.Sc. level of 1 year (2 semesters), 60 ECTS in total– 1st and 2nd semesters – courses, 40 ECTS– 2nd semester – M.Sc. thesis, 20 ECTS

– Students and staff are quite well motivated for 1,5 year scheme. Open issue: Ministry of Education?


Reaccreditation and Future Steps• Other initiatives - FTS

– Explosion of various study programs is going on– A lot of study programs encompassing CS&I

disciplines• in more or less extent• wishing to exploit software engineering as an applied

discipline– Many are aware of an importance having a general

study program framework• the same or very similar to the one that we have already

formally adopted– Many are aware of a need to raise interoperability

• student and course exchanging capacity


Reaccreditation and Future Steps• Other initiatives – Academic Community

– An emerging requirement (coming from EU and the region): to increase student mobility• even to the level of 30%-40% students' population being

exchanged between European universities– Issues of student mobility programs:

• More rigid or more liberal approach in creating equivalences between study programs and courses?

• Does student mobility serve just "for tourism" or for strong study?

– Current experiences are heterogeneous – vary from rigid to quite liberal approaches


Reaccreditation and Future Steps• Other initiatives – Industry

– A strong requirement of a power system software company to create a customized interdisciplinary study program• better fitting to their business needs• a close relationship with Department of Electronics, Power

Systems and Telecommunications– Title alternatives:

• Power System's Software Engineering • Software Engineering in Power Systems• Software Engineering in Infrastructure Systems• Software and System Engineering

– The same general framework of study program already adopted


Reaccreditation and Future Steps• Power System's Software Engineering• Questions (sometimes painful):

– Do these titles really mean the same?• Personal view: YES

– Will different organization units of FTS see these titles the same?• Personal view: NO • A special care is needed to create a "right" title

– Is it predominantly Software Engineering or Power Systems or just System Engineering curriculum, in reality?• Personal view: more than 80% it is a classical CS&I program

with a strong accent to interdisciplinary engineering topics


Ivan Luković,University of Novi Sad,Faculty of Technical Sciences

12th Workshop DAAD

JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.

Issues and Dilemmas in Teaching Computer Science and Informatics Courses at Engineering Faculties

End of Presentation

issues and dilemmas in teaching computer science and informatics courses at engineering faculties

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