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Insights Magazine brings you leading experts in coaching and empowerment,

sharing their wisdom, vision, secrets of success and personal defining moments of inspiration. We hope you will enjoy your new Insights.

In This Issue: Heather Dube, Founder, You and Improved Coaching

“Your body loves you - when you learn how to love it back anything is possible.” Page 4

James Malinchak, Award-Winning Speaker, Author, featured on the hit ABC TV show, Secret Millionaire

“It‟s not where you start in life—it‟s where you decide to finish. Let‟s make it happen.” Page 14

Louise Crooks, Keys to Clarity Coach

“Move from a powerful vision, down a clear path to create a prosperous reality.‖ Page 24

Michael Charest, Founder, Business Growth Solutions “Serve people—make an impact on the world . . . What else is there?‖ Page 32

Bryan Caplovitz, Mastermind behind Speaker Match ―Speakers, to deliver a really good product you need to be a good storyteller.” Page 40

Conflict Coaching Expert Panel - “Peacebuiding… one person at a time.”

Cinnie Noble, lawyer, mediator, and certified coach. Developer, The CINERGY® model.

Joyce Odidison, conflict analyst/strategist, speaker, coach. Founder, Interpersonal Wellness. Kathleen Bartle, professional certified coach. Founder, Confidence Connections. Page 46

Insights Expert Directory, Events and Resources Pages 57-59

Celebrating All the Experts Who Have Graced 2010 Insights Pages! Page 60

A special “Thank you” to Coach and Media Personality, Stacey Chadwell.

Heather Dube

is an industry natural health, nutrition, and

fitness expert, a US nationally ranked natural

NPC figure competitor, team AFD athlete,

fitness model, natural foods nutritionist,

Board Certified holistic health practitioner,

NASM private trainer, ACSM health coach, and

cookbook author.

Heather is also a member of the National

Association of Nutrition Professionals and of

the American Association of Drugless

Practitioners, and Creator of the Super Sexy

Over 30 System. Heather is also the founder

of You and Improved Coaching, LLC, an

international online coaching company with

four team members, two advisory board

members, and a mission to improve the

global personal health standard by

empowering women through advanced self-

care. Just shy of her forties, Heather enjoys

sharing that our bodies can actually improve

naturally as we age with an expert natural

health, nutrition, and fitness approach. Her

Super Sexy Over 30™ coaching products and

programs help busy moms and women fast

track to fit, confident, and fabulous over

thirty.

I: When and how did your path to become an

industry natural health, nutrition, and fitness

expert begin?

HD: Actually it began for me when I was

seventeen. I was in undergraduate school, and I

had woken up with some rare health symptoms,

and through about an eight to nine year journey

from that point in into my mid-twenties, I realized

I had a rare neurological condition and spent a lot

of time going through the medical community,

receiving a number of misdiagnoses, and being

told I had other conditions such as MS that I didn‘t

have.

I woke up one day and decided that I was just

going to do my own thing. I guess I was at a

crossroads, and I felt like I could take one path or

the other, and I decided to just monitor my own

health. I think that is the genesis of my journey.

It‘s when I started to focus my intention inward on

my body and shift my mind-set and believe in my

body‘s potential.

I: Why is being a coach and leader to others in

health and body empowerment an important

mission for you?

HD: It‘s important because of what I learned

-4-

initially in that period of my life. I think a lot about what my life would be like today if I had taken the

one path that was put before me by others versus choosing my own.

Fast forward fifteen to twenty years, and I see a lot of people unfortunately living a certain quality of

health—what I would consider a subpar quality of health, and it bleeds out into other areas of their

lives. It doesn‘t allow them to really reach their full potential as individuals for themselves, for

society, and for their loved ones.

It‘s really important to me to help share the lessons that I‘ve learned, to share the mind-set that I‘ve

developed over the years—what I call your mind body mind-set. I just really encourage and inspire

others that there are other possibilities out there to help shift what we see going on today in the

public health picture.

I: How many years have you been in the industry, and what experiences or education does your body

of work include today?

HD: For me, I consider my career as having started at age seventeen, because my experience really

began with learning how to heal a significant illness and learning how to do that naturally. My path

took me across a number of experiences, which was kind of random. A lot of times people feel this

way in life; it‘s almost like puzzle pieces, but when you get there, you see how they all connect

together.

While I was in undergraduate school, I spent some time doing nutrition research in children‘s

nutrition—TV media research, and how nutrition is taught through TV media to children. After I

graduated, I wasn‘t quite sure what path I wanted to take for my life professionally, and I spent some

time in the fitness industry while I was figuring all of that out—areas of personal training—and I got

more into nutrition.

I had the opportunity, after I met my husband, to work with a great friend of his who is a very

successful Ph.D. in nutrient biochemistry and a nutrition coach for a number of athletic associations

such as the NFL, the PGA, and the NHL, as well as the Canadian Olympic team. I worked with him to

do some coaching. I decided to compete and do figure competition. I mentored under him for a little

while and it just progressed from there.

I moved into competition, and then I eventually worked as a nutrition marketing manager for the

largest U.S. national grocer doing their produce marketing, and educating consumers on how to

select, store, and prepare different fruits and vegetables to increase produce consumption. That was

my last job in Corporate America before I began You and Improved Coaching.

I: That‘s quite a job experience. What is something about you as a coach that others might not guess

or that would be surprising about you?

HD: That I‘ve struggled with my health and that I know what it feels like to be out of control of your

body—extremely out of control to the point where you feel like you‘re close to losing it—to the point

of death, really. I‘ve been that far to the edge.

I‘ve had two significant illnesses in my life that were chronic and lasted over an extended number of

years, and today I‘m very blessed to be able to compete at a high level of athletics as a woman in her

midlife and continue to improve and work towards improving every year.

When I meet people, a lot of times they don‘t know that about me, that I know what it feels like to be

on that side of the coin. It‘s part of why I get up every day, and I‘m very passionate about what I do.

I: What lessons in life have taught you the most about health, and what important learning or

inspiration can you maybe offer others from them?

HD: What we were just talking about a little bit—just being on both ends of the spectrum. Feeling

completely in control of my body at this point in my life is just an amazing thing to be able to feel

-5- (Continued next page.)

every day. You live in your body your whole life. It‘s kind of hard to explain or put into words—it‘s a

journey. But most people I meet are frustrated at their body, they don‘t understand how it works.

They‘re trying to fit a circle into a square.

I feel like at age thirty-seven I live in complete harmony with my health and my body every day, I

know what it's doing, and I honor it. I uplift it, and I work with it. I just want to encourage other

people that there‘s a place you can get to where that‘s available to you if you believe and you just

pick that path.

I: I think quite a few people believe and really want that for themselves, it‘s just there‘s a lot of

mixed messages out in the media about how to acquire that and how to do that.

HD: Right, absolutely. It‘s very frustrating for me. I think one thing I would suggest for everyone is

shut off your TV and just disregard the next thing you see in a magazine, and if your buddy leans

over at the gym to tell you what you should or shouldn‘t be doing, disregard that.

I will say that there are certain underlying principles that have to be in place across nutrition, across

fitness, across health—natural health needs that will help everybody. Once you get the foundation of

those things in place, then a certain level of individualization has to come in, depending on what your

goal is or what you‘re trying to do with your health. Whether you‘re trying to heal the body, balance it

or build it, all of those things require an individualized approach, and you need to hire a mentor or

expert coach to obtain that.

Everyone‘s lifestyle is different. Everyone‘s health history is different. Everyone‘s demands on their

life are different. For example, do you have a very sedentary lifestyle, or are you a business owner

and a single parent who is constantly traveling? Your adrenals are going to be a lot more fired up

than the next person‘s. All of those things are very uniquely supported. It‘s almost like thinking of the

body on a pendulum, and we always want to bring it back to center, but everybody‘s plan to bring it

back to center is going to be a little bit different.

I: What is one of your greatest achievements in your career today, and one of your future goals?

HD: I think one of my greatest achievements is being able to compete at a national level with other

women who are competing in the sport of bodybuilding, which is so often misunderstood. Fortunately,

what I get to see, competing as a woman in my late thirties in bodybuilding as a natural athlete, is

that our bodies actually can get better as we age. What‘s interesting is, when you see women

competing in this sport, we lay a foundation over and over, through our training and nutrition, of

what we're doing, and how we‘re healing the body.

It‘s amazing; you get to see that the human body actually learns from

what you're doing. So the more you do it, the better it gets. It

understands, and it improves. It‘s almost like practice makes perfect, if

you will. You get to see this flipped mentality of the human body that

actually, myself as a 37-year-old athlete getting to compete with other

women, I‘m in awe of the women in their forties and fifties, because they

actually get better—physically, mentally, spiritually—on all levels.

It‘s a shifted mind-set whereas in public health, there‘s a pervasive mind

-set that it gets harder as we age, that we lose control of the body, that

everything gets worse or negative as we age. So I think as far as my

greatest achievement and future goals, it‘s just being able to compete in

this sport, and then bring the positive that I learn from it out to others to

improve their lives and health.

I: Speaking of goals, goal-planning has emerged as a very commonly

used, universal health coaching strategy. What is your insight on this

area for empowering others in their personal health?

-6-

Heather Dube continued . . .

HD: It‘s proven in the research that people who write their goals

down and review them regularly will have a nine times better

chance at achieving what they‘re trying to do. I absolutely

believe there‘s a lot of validity to that, and it has to be a part of

whatever area you‘re looking to excel in and be successful in.

I do think that there are some missing pieces. Goal planning is

not effective unless you have someone leading you—an expert

who has been to the mountaintop and back in what you‘re trying

to achieve. I‘m a huge believer in coaching in every form. I‘m a

coach for others in the areas of health, nutrition, fitness,

supplementation—you name it. And I still bring coaches around

me to coach me, because there‘s a mind-set piece, and you just

effectively do better and you achieve more in terms of your

results when you have that person with you. I work with

business and marketing coaches for my own business because I

want to be successful.

I think those things are really important, but I do think that

effective and successful goal planning involves having the

leadership of an expert coach in whatever you‘re trying to

achieve—someone who can make the plan very accurate to get

you to where you want to go.

I: Coaches and experts in the areas of nutrition, health, and fitness are becoming more prevalent and

available today. What suggestions do you have for people who are looking to select a coach to

support them to achieve their health goals?

HD: I think it‘s really hard for the layperson to evaluate credentials. Instead of looking for this

certification or that certification, because it‘s not something that they can interpret, I think that the

length of time that someone has been doing their career is very critical.

What I like to ask is, ―Are they are lifer?‖ Especially in the areas of health, nutrition, and fitness—

those are very evolving sciences. They‘re constantly changing, and you want to find someone who is

deeply rooted and deeply passionate about these sciences and who is embedded in the industry that

is evolving and growing with them over a long period of time. That‘s going to be somebody who is

going to be an effective leader.

Also, look for someone who has proven to show the results that you‘re looking for—whatever it is

you‘re trying to achieve and whatever type of coaching you‘re looking for. At least for me, I‘ve always

looked for that when I‘ve selected a coach—someone who has already shown the results in

themselves that I want to achieve. Then I am more likely to get the results that I‘m seeking.

I: The diet and fitness industries are some of the highest profit-producing consumer industries, and

yet the obesity and illness numbers continue to rise annually. Why do you think so many people

struggle with their health? Can you offer some expert insight?

HD: I think it comes back to what we were touching on before. In the last Corporate America job I

had, where I worked for the largest U.S. grocer doing their nutrition marketing, I had the opportunity

to spend a lot of time learning about organic versus nonorganic farming processes, overall farming

processes, and mass farming processes in the U.S. and internationally. I also spent some time with

these farmers.

I learned a lot about how marketing and sales goes down at the consumer touch point, which is in the

grocery store, which is probably the least place that people perceive that they‘re being sold to, and in

reality, it‘s very much a place where people are sold to.

For me, it just became very clear that wherever there‘s profit, there‘s going to be untruth. There‘s

-7- (Continued next page.)

going to be untruthful information that benefits somebody else more than it benefits us. When people

start to figure it out, or when things start to hit the consumer knowledge, they just change the game.

They change the name on the packaging or do whatever they need to do to confuse you.

I‘m very much about focusing my mind, body, and spiritual energy, and I started asking myself,

―Where is my energy going to be best used? Is it going to be best used trying to figure all this out in

the store, or fighting these people in order to make it honest for the consumers? Or is it going to be

best used by getting on the other side of the fence and creating a solution-based business to become

part of the change that I want to see in the world?‖

That‘s why I started You and Improved Coaching, because the reality is—and I wish I could tell you

different—people will always remain confused if they continue to look towards sources such as diet

books, the latest research studies, what the newscast says five o‘clock, or what the packaging on the

food says.

They‘re never going to understand the solution until they start looking inside and becoming educated

on how their body works, why it‘s doing what it‘s doing, and how to use those processes to their

advantage, whether they‘re trying to heal or build or balance the body; but once you get to that

place, it‘s so simple it‘s unbelievable.

I: As an industry professional, you‘ve had the opportunity to work as a national competitive figure

athlete. What is the common denominator you find that makes someone successful at their personal

health?

HD: There are a couple of things, actually, but I would say mind-set is number one. First and

foremost, it‘s about having a mind-set that‘s open to potential at all times. It‘s a mind-set of ―I can‖

versus ―I can't.‖ It‘s a focused energy. Always focusing your mind on the possible, and believing in

yourself; not always taking what everyone tells you for your health, your life, your body, or whatever

it is at face value. Really trust your own intuition, have a very positive mind and positive energy, and

keep all of your focus on those things versus the things that are out of your control.

I: You‘re also the creator of a very unique, step-by-step health and body change system—the Super

Sexy Over 30 System. That‘s an interesting name. Can you tell us more about the program and the

background?

HD: When I first started You and Improved Coaching, I really wanted to think about who I was here

to serve, and it took me a little bit of time and personal development work to really hone in on that.

One day when I was out running errands, and in Starbucks, I saw a parent giving their child—who

was about two years old—some coffee or a frappuccino.

I realized I could not do this. I could not go through the twenty years of all of these different

experiences that I had been blessed to have—be it sickness or illness; health challenge or health

triumph; learning how to heal the body, how to control it, how to uplift it—and not share that with

other people.

I came to this space and, I think for me, I really felt that there was a shift that we needed to see—

not just in the U.S., but globally—because I realized we‘re headed in a really bad direction health

wise, more than people are in touch with. I have colleagues who believe that the rate at which we‘re

recreating disease at a gene level because of nutrient deficiency and sickness is not something we

-8-

Heather Dube continued . . .

“People will always remain confused if they continue to look towards

sources such as diet books, the latest research studies, what the newscast says at five o‟clock, or what the packaging on the food says. They‟re never

going to understand the solution until they start looking inside and becom-ing educated on how their body works . . . It‟s so simple it‟s unbelievable.”

can sustain, to the point that human extinction is not out of the question.

People like myself and other colleagues really need to stand up and be the change, because the

profit, and the people coming after profit—be it through medical industries, drug companies, those

kinds of things—are never going to change, so we really want to educate consumers.

For me, I feel like women are the power of the change—no offense to men, I love you guys too. But I

really see that as women, we create life. We‘re very powerful. That‘s a very powerful statement, to be

able to say that we create life. I see children, in generations to come, faltering on a lot of levels—

mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and physically. For me, health is the foundation for all of those

things.

How do we create that change? For me, it has to start with women, because we create the children,

we ultimately teach the biggest lessons to our children, and we need to take back our children right

now. We absolutely need to take back what‘s going on. The childhood obesity rate, to me, is

unacceptable. Having childhood onset diabetes, which never existed ten or fifteen years ago, is

unacceptable. These things don‘t have to be. We created them, and we can end them.

Super Sexy Over 30, while it may be misinterpreted, came from a space in time for me where I

recognized that women—and we‘re all the same whether we have children, whether we don‘t have

children, if we have a spouse, whatever—have a unique need and skill, which is great, to be the

ultimate caretaker for everyone but ourselves.

The problem is, when those other

things come into our lives, we all share

the same inherent knee-jerk reaction

to feel guilty about taking care of

ourselves, and we usually end up last

on the list.

My mission is to encourage women

to stop putting themselves and

their health last on the list—to

teach women that the truth is that

when we take care of ourselves

every day, it allows us to be a

better version of ourselves, and not

just for ourselves, but for others

and for those that we love and care

for.

Women are sold a mind-set that it is normal and acceptable to lose control of our bodies, that it

becomes harder as we go because all of life is pulling us in twenty different directions. That‘s where

having a positive mind-set, focused energy, daily intentions, and an understanding of our health and

what‘s happening in that space of our life span is so important.

I: I absolutely agree with you. I‘m a mother of two girls, and they‘re both young, ten and six. Even if

I don‘t say anything, they watch what I do and they mimic it. Actually, they see better than they

hear, trust me.

HD: Absolutely, yes. A lot of what we do involves dealing with energies. Energies of the body,

energies of food, energies of the mind—all these things interact in ways most people aren‘t in touch

with.

It‘s not as much about what you say as what you do, and children at a very young age—even as their

brains are forming all the way up through age sixteen—are watching everything you do. They feed off

of your energy as a parent, and they absolutely want to mimic what you do.

-9- (Continued next page.)

I: They do, but you‘re up against all these marketing companies on TV. I‘m not going to mention any

of the particular fast food chains, but children see them on TV all the time. My kids were asking for it

a lot, and I don‘t think that‘s healthy for them, so I had them sit down with me and watch the movie

Supersize Me.

HD: Good for you.

I: They said, ―Oh, we don‘t want to go there now.‖ There are things that you can do as a mom, but

you have to be aware of the messages to start with, and you‘re really up against a huge giant in the

grocery stores or just driving down the street.

HD: Right, and that‘s why I say just take your power back. How do you do

that? You take your power back by not putting energies towards what you

can't control, because you will never control that beast. You will never

control it, nor will I, so that‘s why I started the company and why I bring

this message to other people, because people can't ever stop that.

If I change one person and empower them to understand the body that

they live in, how to really live in it in harmony, what it is doing and why,

and that it is something they‘ll never get around, that‘s all that matters.

Those things are truths and they never change, and all the marketing

messages, all the packaging, all the recent studies, this, that, and the other

will never get around that.

The human body works the way it does. It‘s a brilliant machine. It‘s smarter

than we are. It gets up every day with just one thing in mind—to survive—

and it‘s working on that every day, all day long. The question is, how hard

are you making its job? Most people don‘t understand that. They don‘t even

know how hard they are making its job.

Once you become empowered with that knowledge, you‘re unstoppable.

There‘s no one who can stop that.

I: What kind of people do you typically work with at You and Improved Coaching?

HD: Mostly women; we do have male clients, but I find women are more drawn to this work, and it‘s

usually women in mid life or women dealing with menopause or fatigue who are wanting to do some

natural healing around that. Also, women who are on medications for health management and want

to eliminate them, as well as women who work out but are frustrated because they‘re not seeing

great results.

I get a lot of clients who have thyroid issues, which, unfortunately, is becoming a lot more common

today. But again, it comes back to a lot of things that are going into our food systems that we aren‘t

aware of, and controlling that.

I think sometimes people see us and think that because there‘s an athletic piece to our background,

that‘s what we do, and it‘s not; we‘re just taking the pieces of an advanced level of nutrition and

fitness and how to change the body from using that, and bringing that into what we do.

It‘s mostly people who just want to take control of their health and body who come to us. They want

to feel better. They want to look better. They want to feel good throughout their day; they don‘t want

to feel like they‘re just going through the motions. They don‘t want to feel like they just have to

accept the one solution they‘re being presented with, or they want to experience better results from

their efforts.

If they have acid reflux, for example, and are being told that they have to be on medications forever

and that they may get Barrett‘s esophagus, they want to explore another way. So we help them to

-10-

Heather Dube continued . . .

heal those things naturally, get back in balance, feel better, look better, and have a better life

experience.

I: So you don‘t work with just people who want to be competitors—you help them with their overall

health in general?

HD: Yes. In fact, we rarely work with competitive athletes. I think we‘ve had one client who was an

athlete. We do that as part of our own passion and part of living what we teach. We feel if we‘re

going to be a leader and we‘re going to inspire others, we need to walk our talk. We celebrate the

human body and we celebrate its power, and that‘s why we enjoy competitive athletics—taking it to

an optimal level and back, and celebrating its change and changing with it.

That‘s just something that we like to do, but ultimately most of our clients are people who are just

looking for help in areas like advanced/natural healing and weight loss. They‘re looking for ways to

lose weight in the most effective, but yet the safest, way possible. We teach them a very natural,

safe, effective way to do that, so they can get the best results that they want to in the shortest

amount of time.

That is a big thing that people are looking for, because it‘s a very confusing topic to people out there.

We teach people how to understand the body, how to work within its framework, and how to use it to

their advantage so that they‘ll get better results.

I: Do you mind sharing with us three suggestions for how to achieve improved health and body

results?

How to Improve Your Health and Body Results

1. Stress: I think you‘re going to see a lot of research coming

out over the next five, ten, twenty years about how much

stress, and the connection between the mind and the body,

affect your health negatively.

It‘s proven that stress obviously raises acid levels, inflammation

in the body, all those kinds of things, so it does absolutely affect

your health. Stress is a big thing, and when managing your

body‘s weight, or whatever you‘re trying to manage, it will take

you down if it has to, and I‘ve actually been there too. I had

chronic fatigue once in my early thirties.

One of the things that we help people understand and balance

naturally are hormones, because you simply cannot lose weight

effectively and in the best manner possible without playing the

hormone game. You really need to understand how to balance

your hormones—which ones are key, which ones improve your

results, and which ones hurt your results.

We use the things we learned in advanced body transformation

in the sport of bodybuilding. You‘re really doing aggressive

change of the body over a short period of time, and none of that

is unnatural. It‘s very safe and effective. A lot of people are not using all of these natural processes of

the body that they could be to their advantage because they have not had these same experiences.

Stress affects cortisol levels and it will keep you stuck. If your goal, for example, is weight loss, it will

absolutely keep you stuck.

2. Nutrition: Realistically, nutrition is 80% of your results. Fitness is 20%. If you‘re just going to the

gym every day and you‘re eating whatever you want, or just picking up on your nutrition here and

-11- (Continued next page.)

there, and if you‘re looking for change, you‘re never going to get it, because

it‘s really about nutrition.

A lot of people are discounting their nutrition. They‘re discounting it and

overvaluing their fitness. I‘m not saying that fitness is not important—the

body is built to move. Hands down, it‘s built to push force out, it‘s built to

move and be challenged, but nutrition has to be a part of that.

There are three levels of understanding the science of nutrition, and some

people are much more advanced than others, and the advanced ones are

more effective in the human body results they can achieve.

Things like points-based calorie systems are a dead-end street. It‘s only

going to get you so far, because there‘s more science to nutrition than

calories in and calories out. Yes, energy balancing is important, but there‘s

much, much more to it than that.

Luckily, when I had the opportunity to mentor with the Ph.D. in nutrient

biochemistry that I mentioned earlier, I got to see that, and I continue to

see it through the work I do with other professional coaches. Having an

effective nutrition program design is different than just a very basic nutrition

coaching or Weight Watchers which tells you to eat this, what points are for

what, and so on.

For me, I really want to help people understand what their body is doing and to become dangerous in

their knowledge, so that they don‘t have to feel controlled every day by thinking I have to count this,

and I can have that, and that‟s five points, and so on. In the beginning, the way we teach people

about nutrition is by using a little bit of measurement, because what‘s measured is managed. But

once you build those life skills and that knowledge, you don‘t need to measure anymore. You just

know what to do, which is a great place to be, and you can ignore everything and everyone‘s input

afterwards.

3. Your approach to your body: What‘s unique about us, and what we teach in nutrition, is that we

take the program design science that we learned of how to shift the body and change it quickly, but

we apply it to a holistic nutrition approach, and there are not many people that I find doing that.

When you put those together, it‘s unbeatable. Your results are unbeatable, and it doesn‘t matter what

you‘re trying to do at that point. Are you trying to heal the body or lose weight? Are you trying to

shape it? Are you trying be an athlete? There need to be little things tweaked in there, but when you

put those things together, it‘s unstoppable.

There are a lot of people in bodybuilding, for example, who give the sport a very negative perception,

because they‘ll compete, they‘ll beat their bodies up, and they‘ll diet really hard for three months,

while the rest of the year they‘re eating Twinkies, having this and that, going out drinking, and so on.

They‘re putting all of this stuff in their bodies, and I see that as a form of abuse. It‘s abusing the

body, because you‘re taking your body from one end of the spectrum to the next, and that‘s very,

very harsh.

We live and teach a nutrition theory that is about being healthy from the inside out. It‘s about

prioritizing the inside of your body and allowing all those systems to be strong—your immune system,

your muscular system, your cardiovascular system, your lymph system. All of these things could be

very strong so that they heal from the inside out, and when you do that, weight loss just comes; you

don‘t have to work at it, it just comes. You‘re allowing your body to be healthy inside. But there are a

lot of pieces that you have to understand in order to know how to do that, and holistic health and

holistic nutrition are priority.

Basically, as I was saying before, everybody‘s body gets up every day with a to-do list, but

unfortunately the to-do list in today‘s society is getting longer and people don‘t know why, because

-12-

Heather Dube continued . . .

“Each of our bodies is an

organism, and that organism is

being attacked every day . . .

by the way things are shifting in our

food production

system, by things that we put on or

in our bodies, and by things in our

environment. This is a full-on

assault.”

they don‘t understand what their body is coming up against. At the end of the day, our bodies are still

organisms. That sounds strange, but we are.

Each of our bodies is an organism, and that organism is being attacked every day. We‘re being

attacked by the way things are shifting in our food production system, by things that we put on or in

our bodies, and by things in our environment. This is a full-on assault.

That‘s why things like thyroid problems are going up, breast cancer is going up—all these things are

going up for a reason. It‘s not just coincidence; there is a reason. People don‘t really understand what

they‘re up against, because they‘re not being educated, they‘re not being told.

The way food is produced is changing. It‘s not the same as it was twenty years ago. I‘m sure our

parents, our grandparents, our great-grandparents, were eating meat and potatoes and they were

fine. They didn‘t have the health problems we have today, and there‘s a huge reason for that. A lot of

things are going on with what‘s coming into our bodies. It‘s a full-on assault, and the immune system

cannot take it anymore. It‘s pretty crazy.

I feel for people, because I‘ve been blessed to have a number of lessons over a lifetime so far that

have really helped me have the sum of experience to understand that, but most people don‘t have

that, and they‘re frustrated. They‘re gaining weight and they don‘t know why. They‘re having

hormone problems and they don‘t know why. They‘re having acid reflux and they don‘t know why.

They have diabetes, and they don‘t know why. It‘s a perfect storm is what it is—a perfect storm.

I: I like how you look at your challenges as blessings, and that‘s a great attitude. That‘s a fabulous

attitude you have. What is something you wish for others to know before we close, Heather?

HD: Just to believe. Just to believe that the body that they live in is so capable; it‘s incredibly

powerful, and no matter where you are or what you‘re frustrated with, your body loves you, and

when you learn how to love it back, it‘s amazing. Anything is possible. If anyone is looking to heal or

change their health and body, we deeply want to help.

I: Thank you so much for sharing so much about health and exactly what you do as a coach. It really

helps me, and I‘m sure it helps other people, to know that you‘re not expecting me to go and become

a bodybuilder.

HD: No, absolutely not. We just want to share healing with people—mind, body, spirit, the whole

thing. And it really starts and ends with the mind, and increasing your knowledge from the right

sources and mentors. That‘s the way you get to a healthy body.

It really begins in the mind, and so we just want to share that with people and share that there is a

better way, or another way, and if they‘re struggling with any health issue, that there are other

means to try. There are other means to heal your body. There are potential ways that they can live a

great quality of life.

-13-

www.youandimprovedcoaching.com

-14-

has delivered over 2,200

motivational presentations at

conferences and meetings

worldwide, and was named

Consummate Speaker of the Year

by Sharing Ideas professional

speakers magazine. He has

appeared in USA Today, The Wall

Street Journal, and several

hundred other publications.

James began his sales career right

out of college as a stockbroker

with a major Wall Street

investment firm, and was awarded

Most Outstanding Performance

twice, and Number One in New

Account Openings twice. While in

his twenties, James became a

partner in a company that handled

investments for many famous

entertainers, authors, and

professional athletes.

Currently, James owns three

businesses, has authored eight

books, and has read and

researched over 1,500 books on

personal and professional

development. He is a contributing

author and served as Associate

Editor for the number one New

York Times best-selling book

series, Chicken Soup for the Soul,

with his own personal stories

published in Chicken Soup for the

Teenage Soul, Chicken Soup for the

Kid’s Soul, and Chicken Soup for

the Prisoner’s Soul. James is also

the coauthor of the upcoming book,

Chicken Soup for the Athlete’s

Soul. James mixes enthusiasm and

humor with motivational stories to

deliver a high content message

that empowers audiences to

achieve extraordinary results.

I: James, please tell us, what inspires

you?

JM: I think it goes back to when I grew

up in a small steel mill town. I actually

do speaker trainings now and a lot of

people have come to me and have

said, ―You‘ve done so well as a highly

paid motivational speaker, and I have a

story (or I have a message, or I have

James Malinchak

some experience) and I know things that I could teach other people, but how do you do this? You

weren‘t famous. Nothing significant ever happened. You didn‘t win a Super Bowl, you didn‘t win a TV

show contest, but you created this amazing speaking career. How do you do that? Give me some

tips.‖

I always tell them, ―The first thing you have to do when you meet anyone, or when you‘re giving a

presentation anywhere, is you always have to tell a little bit about yourself and how you got started.‖

Here‘s why: A friend of mine, who is one of my long-time coaching members, taught me something

years ago. He said, ―Nobody will ever hear you until they know you.‖

What inspires me is telling about where I got started, because when you hear that from others and

you reflect on your own personal story of where you got started, I think that‘s what inspires most

people. Sometimes you have to just pinch yourself and say, ―Wow, I‘m a blessed person!‖ Look at

your life, whether it‘s your family, whether you‘ve done something significant in business, whatever it

is—you always have to step back and remember where you started.

To answer your question, what inspires me most is always remembering where

I started. I always say, ―I‘m a very blessed person, and I‘m just a steel mill

town kid who happened to do some things right.‖

What I mean by that is I grew up in a very tiny steel mill town outside of

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, with a population of about six thousand to maybe

eight thousand people. We didn‘t have much growing up. Mom worked as a

lunch mother at the school, serving lunches to all the elementary school kids,

and then the high school kids, and my dad worked in the steel mill for over

thirty years.

We didn‘t have much, and I never thought, growing up, that I would be able to

do some of the things that I‘m blessed to do today. It just never crossed my

mind. I had some goals, but I never thought somebody like me, living where I

lived, coming from my background, could ever do things like this.

I had a mentor who shared with me a quote by Walt Disney, and it always stuck

with me. ―If you can dream it, you can do it.‖ I never forgot that. That was an eighth grade teacher

who told me that—Mrs. Monaghan. I don‘t know why it stuck with me, but that has served as an

inspiration.

This is what I relay to people now when I speak at corporations, associations, business conventions,

community groups, colleges, universities, or youth organizations. Every time I speak, I always say,

―It‘s not where you start in life—it‘s where you decide to finish.‖

One of the things that keeps your fuel tank at a high level is always remembering where you started.

If you are someplace right now just starting out, and you would like to go to a higher place in your

life right now, you‘ve got to understand the quote from Walt Disney. You‘ve got to intelligently think

out a plan for how to lay the right steps to do what it is you want to do. It doesn‘t matter where you

are—it matters where you decide to finish. I don‘t care where you are in your life right now—the

question is, where do you want to be? Let‘s figure out a way to make it happen for you.

The other thing is that you‘ve got to get rid of your excuses, because everybody has excuses. They‘re

pretty darn good excuses, and every excuse you give yourself will always be right. ―Oh yeah, I‘d like

to have a great marriage, but . . . ‖ or ―I‘d like to be the first person in my family to go to college and

get a degree, but . . . ‖ or ―I‘d like to leave my job working for somebody else and start my own

business, but . . . ‖ or ―I‘d like to be a millionaire, but . . . ‖ or ―I‘d like to achieve this goal, but . . . ‖

or ―I‘d like to achieve that dream, but . . . ‖

The only thing that stops you from going from where you are to where you want to be is a big ―but,‖

so you have to get your ―but‖ out of the way!

I‘m very blessed to be on an ABC brand new reality TV show called Secret Millionaire which is

-15- (Continued next page.)

“Reflect on your

own personal story . . .

You always have to step back and

remember where you started . . .

I‟m just a steel mill town

kid who happened to do

some things right.”

primetime on ABC. If someone had told me five years ago that I would end up on ABC primetime

television because of what I‘ve done as a speaker, what I‘ve accomplished from teaching others

about how to monetize their mission—their story, their message—to become highly paid speakers

telling their own stories, I would have asked what they were smoking, because five years ago I had

that ―but‖ still in my head.

Even though I was blessed to achieve certain

things, I still had that ―but‖ when it came to

something big like primetime television. Why

would they choose me? I‘m just a steel mill town

kid. You have to get your ―but‖ out of the way,

because, ―If you can dream it, you can do it.‖

I: I like that. How do you inspire others? I‘m

hearing it already, but how do you inspire

others?

JM: I think whether it‘s me or anyone listening, I

think we inspire other people by our stories—our

stories of what we‘ve overcome in our lives. I am

a highly paid marketing consultant—some pay

$100,000 a year to coach with me. One of the

things I‘ve studied for years is Hollywood

movies. Watch the psychology behind Hollywood

movies—what movies we always like and that

always appeal to, and attract, the public. They‘re

the movies where somebody overcomes

something.

Just think of some of the most inspirational movies of all time, such as Rocky, about an underdog. We

rooted for the underdog. Why? Because we wanted to see Rocky prevail. We wanted to see Rocky

win, to come through the struggle.

Look at a football movie like Rudy about a guy going to Notre Dame to play football. Rudy is a good

friend of mine, he lives in Las Vegas by me—the real Rudy, not the actor. Why did we like Rudy?

Because he was the underdog. He was going through a struggle, pain. I‘ll get to the reason why this

inspires us in a second.

Look at a hockey movie such as Miracle about the United States hockey team defeating the Russian

hockey team in the Olympics. Why did that appeal to us? Because they weren‘t supposed to win.

They were beaten up—there was no way they could beat the big Russian hockey team.

Look at a horse movie like Seabiscuit. Look at another boxing movie like Cinderella Man or The

Fighter. What you quickly learn is that the reason those movies inspire us is because we are those

movies. We have a story like that within us, no matter what it is. A story of struggle, a story of pain,

a story of triumph, a story of finding the love of our life after so much struggling. We have stories in

our lives of families coming back together after not talking to each other for years, overcoming that

adversity.

What inspires me, and what I think inspires everybody, is the story of struggle, triumph, overcoming

adversity, not quitting, not giving up—the story of Rocky getting knocked down and standing up

again and again and again when he shouldn‘t stand up. And here‘s why: We are those people. We all

have that story. It inspires me, and I think what inspires everyone is their own story.

I‘m not saying your story has to be something like winning the heavyweight boxing championship of

the world like Rocky, but your story might be, ―I worked three jobs as a single parent and I busted

my butt, and because of that I have great kids.‖ That is an amazingly inspirational story, and that is

-16-

James Malinchak continued . . .

what inspires other people. Someone looks at you, and they say to you, ―If you did it and you didn‘t

quit, maybe I can do it.‖ You give them hope. What inspires me are stories of people who just won't

quit no matter how tough it seems, no matter what the circumstances are.

I: I completely agree with you, because if you watch current TV, reality shows like The Biggest

Loser—most of us have struggled with weight at some point—and you see these people overcoming

huge challenges and how they‘re doing it, you find yourself rooting for them, and you really want

them to get there and make it. It is permeating our culture in a lot of different ways; you‘re

absolutely right.

JM: Yes, it‘s that whole process of somebody coming from where they were, and seeing the

transformation and the beautiful change they made in their lives—it doesn‘t even have to be

specifically a weight-loss focused show. Seeing someone come through something so tough and hard

and not quit—if you look at the underlying message, that‘s what it is. Somebody went from a mess to

a success.

That‘s what Secret Millionaire is all about. That‘s why it‘s going to change the lives of millions of

people all over the world. Basically I lived in a ghetto on about $44.62 for a whole week—that was all

the money I had to live on—the whole premise of the show is very inspirational. It‘s a very good,

touchy-feely show, like an Extreme Home Makeover type of inspirational show.

Basically, the whole premise is that I take millionaires out of their current lifestyle and put them into

situations that they‘re not used to being in. Can they survive? Will they survive? The real story is,

here I am, taken out of my lifestyle in Las Vegas, and thrust into a tough economic area where I was

basically living in a ghetto. I was living in a very small apartment on $44.62 for an entire week.

I was volunteering in the community, looking for amazing, beautiful, spirited people who were

volunteering, helping, serving other people, serving their community, and nobody knew who I was.

The camera crew that was with me from ABC was staged as if they were shooting a documentary on

volunteer groups. Nobody knew it was a reality TV show. They didn‘t want anybody to act

differently—they just wanted them to be themselves.

I was sweeping streets with people, I was cleaning up trash lots, I was helping young kids with their

homework in afterschool programs—things that they did to get kids off the streets. I was just

volunteering, helping, and watching these amazing spirits who were doing this for no other reason

than to give, to support, and to help lift a fellow person up.

At the end of the week, I reveal my identity, and I share with them

that I am not actually a struggling poor person—I‘m actually a

millionaire. And then I open up my checkbook and I tell them, ―I have

been so inspired by what you‘re doing and the amazing spirit you

show, that I‘d like to give you this check for . . . ‖ Then I start writing

them checks—$50,000, $20,000, $10,000—whatever it is, and I give

them some financial resources so they can carry out their mission of

serving and loving.

I: That‘s fabulous—I love it!

JM: It‘s a very inspirational story. Let me tell you this, because this is

really important: It wasn‘t about the money. Yes, sure, I gave away

over $100,000—but it wasn‘t about the money they were receiving.

The money certainly helped them; look, if you‘ve got a $37.00

electric bill coming due and you don‘t have the money in your bank

account, you can try and deposit with the credit collecting company

all the hope and all the inspiration and all the intention and Law of

Attraction stuff you want, but if you don‘t have the money in your

bank account, you can't pay it.

The money definitely helped those folks, no doubt about it. It kept some folks from losing their

-17- (Continued next page.)

homes, it got some of the folks out of the process of having to close their business. The money

definitely helped, but here‘s what I quickly noticed: It was much more than the money that they

received. It was a deeper spiritual gift that they received—they were given hope.

The awarding of the check, the money, symbolized that somebody recognizes them, and they‘re

doing great stuff. It said, ―You can't quit doing what you‘re doing.‖ Sure, the money helped to pay

their bills, but what I really did, I believe, was that I gave them some hope, and that‘s priceless.

When someone‘s at the end of their rope, they need hope.

I: Yes, they do. That‘s absolutely right. That‘s fabulous—I love what you‘re doing. Why did you

choose this arena for your life‘s great work?

JM: I didn‘t—it actually chose me. I was a stockbroker, a financial consultant, managing people‘s

money. I was in Southern California at one point, and I had clients who were entertainers and

professional athletes and celebrities. I was watching the stock market and managing their

investments—that sort of thing.

I won some awards at a young age in my company, and I had been asked to start speaking and

training others within the company on how I did it, because I did it at such a young age, and I did it

so fast. The first year I won Most Outstanding Performance twice and Number One in Account

Openings twice. There were people who were fifteen or twenty years into the business who were not

doing that.

I started getting asked to speak and train, and I did a training presentation in New York City. I think

it was in the World Trade Center, actually. Someone there saw me speak, called his father back in

Southern California, and said, ―We just had this guy speak, and he was very uplifting and

motivational, but yet he gave really good content also of stuff that we could use. You might want to

consider having him come and speak to your employees.‖

I get a call, and this guy says, ―My son heard you speak, and I want to see about having you come

and speak for our employees.‖

I asked, ―What do you want me to speak about? I‘m not a speaker or anything; I just happened to do

this training because they asked me to do it.‖

He said, ―I just want you to talk about your story, and how you stayed motivated and inspired to

keep doing great work and doing great things.‖

I asked, ―How long do you want me to speak for?‖

-18-

James Malinchak continued . . .

He said, ―I need you to speak for about an hour.‖

I was thinking that would be pretty simple. I had just done a training for about three hours just

teaching what I knew. I wasn‘t a speaker; I was just teaching what I knew. If I did three hours, I

could fill one hour. Then he asked me a question. He asked, ―How much do you charge?‖

I had no clue. That was so foreign to me. They were going to pay me to do this?

I learned one thing in business—when someone asks you a question, and you are dumbfounded and

baffled, and you don‘t know the answer, there are a couple of lines that you can say to throw it back

to them so that they answer.

He asked, ―How much do you charge?‖

I said, ―How much you got?‖

He said, ―Well, the last guy we had, we paid about five thousand bucks.‖

I almost fell off my chair. I asked, ―How long do you want me to talk again?‖

He said, ―Could you do it for about an hour? Would you do that for us?‖

I‘m thinking, For 5,000 bucks I‟ll not only speak for the hour, I‟ll wash your car, I‟ll go get your dry

cleaning . . .

Like I said, it sort of picked me, because I never knew about speaking and getting started in it. I had

no clue whatsoever. Here‘s this man talking about hiring me for one hour to speak, offering to pay

me $5,000, and talking like it was something that he does all the time.

I: I hope you accepted.

JM: I had to get my tongue out of my

throat—I was swallowing it. I couldn‘t

believe this. Are you kidding me? For an

hour? After I got off the ground from where

I fell off my chair, I took a gulp and I said, ―I

think that will work.‖

I went and gave a motivational talk. They

loved it. They gave me a check for $5,000

for an hour. I thought, You‟ve got to be

kidding me!

Then they said, ―Would you be willing to go

and speak at two more of our offices? Would

you be willing to accept the same fee?‖

Again I thought, You‟ve got to be kidding

me! I did three talks, made $15,000 for

three hours of work, and I said, ―Wait a

minute—I‘m on to something here!‖ That‘s

when I realized there are two sides of

speaking. There‘s your message and what

you deliver, and then there is the business side, and it is a huge business. It‘s a billion dollar industry

with conventions and colleges and corporations. I thought, Wait a minute, if they‟re going to pay me

to help people and inspire people and do something I love to do, I‟m going to figure out how to make

this work.

-19- (Continued next page.)

I did, and I‘ve done so many presentations and helped so many people, but I got compensated for it

too. I could have been doing it for free, but I realized it was a business.

To answer your question, it picked me, I didn‘t pick it. I didn‘t even know that it existed. I compare it

to being an entertainer—somebody who loves to sing who all of a sudden is getting paid to sing,

getting paid to record an album, getting paid to put on a concert. I feel like I‘ve never worked a day

in my life, because I‘m getting paid to do something I love to do, which is to speak and help people.

I: How do you define success?

JM: It‘s real simple: happiness. I defined this years ago. Happiness—it‘s happiness with myself,

happiness with my life, happiness doing what I want to do when I want to do it and however I want

to do it. I think that‘s what success is for people.

I read an article years ago in which Mother Teresa said that one of her great pleasures in life was

holding the hands of people as they were transitioning—as they were dying. If you look at it in

society, society would tell us that success equals money, and that could be true to a certain extent,

but Mother Teresa held people‘s hands when they were dying, and got great joy.

Does that mean she‘s not successful because maybe she wasn‘t wealthy? I think she was super

successful. If you are a parent and you have the great pleasure that you‘re raising amazing kids and

you‘re getting to spend time with your husband, your wife, your children, whatever that looks like for

you, and you‘re happy—isn't that successful?

I think society equates success with money and

material things, and programs us to think that way

too. I‘m not saying that that can't be a part of

success; definitely in business, that‘s part of success,

because if a business is not making money and

profiting, then it is not really successful. But to me,

success is all about happiness—it‘s about doing what

I want, when I want, wherever I want, with

whomever I want, however much I want.

That‘s how I‘ve always defined success. The minute

I‘m not happy doing something in my life, I don‘t feel

like I‘m successful, and I change it. I tell

businesspeople this all the time—I do a lot of

teaching on how to actually run a business the right

way and how to profit highly and fast from running a

business—I have a rule for my business: I absolutely

will not work with anybody who irritates me.

The reason is because I lost my sister Vicki years ago to a brain tumor. She died of a brain tumor

unexpectedly. She was okay, and then three months later she collapsed and died. It just taught me

that life is just too darn short to be around people who irritate you, people who bring you down,

people that you don‘t want to be around, and who you don‘t like being around. Why would you want

to be around them?

I have 160 coaching members who I consult and coach for. The fees to coach with me are $20,000 a

year, $60,000 a year, and $100,000 a year. I have 160 members in my coaching and consulting

group. I got a text message yesterday that one of my dear, dear clients unexpectedly had a massive

heart attack and died. It just reminded me that life is too darn short to not do what you like to do and

to be around the people you like to be around, and avoid being around the people you don‘t like to be

around.

Every now and then, life keeps reminding us that we have to do that happiness check and make sure

James Malinchak continued . . .

-20-

-21- (Continued next page.)

we‘re only around people we like to be around, that we‘re happy, and that we‘re only doing things we

like to do.

I: I think that‘s true, and who you surround yourself with does determine your attitude. I agree with

you about success. What I say is, ―Success is user-defined.‖

JM: That‘s good, yes.

I: Only that person can determine his or her own success. They‘re the only

one who‘s going to say what is successful for them. Like you said, society

says it‘s money or rising through the ranks in business, but that‘s not

necessarily so. You may rise through the ranks of business, but your real

love and passion might be for something totally different.

JM: If all you pursue is wealth, and you lose your health, are you really

successful? Think about that. I‘m not saying money is not important—if you

don‘t have money, you can't eat. It‘s real simple. If you have a church that

needs a roof put on, or if you have six hungry kids in a city and they have no

food, you can have all the wishing and hoping and smiles in the world, but

the bottom line is you need money to provide for basic needs.

I‘m not saying money in any way is not important, but a lot of people I see

in business only pursue money, and they forget about everything else. They

forget about their family. They‘re not balanced. They forget about their

lifestyle, doing what they love to do. They forget about their health, and

then their health declines.

You‘ve got to have a balance of all mechanisms. The bottom line is, whenever we die, we are not

taking anything we have with us. We‘re all going out the same way we came in, and that‘s with

nothing.

I: What is the most powerful moment of success or life-changing experience for you?

JM: I got a telephone call one day—this was several years ago—from my dad. He said my sister Vicki

had collapsed and was in the hospital with the right side of her body paralyzed.

This was shocking for me, because I was with Vicki two weeks before this happened, and she was

perfectly fine. As a matter of fact, I‘ll tell you what we did. We went to the movies, we went to the

mall, we ate some pizza, and then we were just hanging out as brother and sister.

Initially we thought it had to be a pinched nerve in Vicki‘s back, because Vicki was a young person. At

the time, she was thirty-eight years old. The first set of test results came back—it wasn‘t a pinched

nerve. Then we thought maybe Vicki had a stroke, because medical research is telling us that young

people can have strokes. The second set of results came back— it wasn‘t a stroke.

Then a few days went by, and I could not get Vicki on the phone. Finally, I was connected to the new

room she was in. Vicki answered the phone, and I got all excited, and I said, ―Hey, Vicki! How are

you?‖

She asked, ―Did you hear?‖

I got even more excited. I said, ―What? Did they figure it out? Everything is okay? You‘re coming

home? Is that why you‘re in a new room, because they upgraded you and everything‘s fine, and

you‘re coming home?‖

She said, ―No. I have a brain tumor, and the doctors say I‘m going to die in three months.‖

I didn‘t know what to say. I just remember thinking, This doesn‟t happen to my sister. We never

“I‟m not saying

money is not important . . .

the bottom line is you need money

to provide for basic needs.

But a lot of people I see in business

only pursue money, and they

forget about everything else.

They‟re not balanced.”

think it happens to people we love and care about. It happens to other people‘s brothers and sisters,

grandmas, grandpas, moms and dads, and friends.

She said that to me, and I hope nobody ever experiences what I‘m about to say I experienced next. I

hope nobody listening ever has, I hope nobody ever does, and I certainly hope I don‘t ever

experience it again, because it was the scariest thing I have ever experienced in my entire life.

When she said that to me, I tried to speak back to Vicki, but nothing came out of my mouth. You

hear people say they tried talking, and nothing came out, and you figure they just decided not to

talk. No, I am telling you, as sure as I am speaking right now to you, I was talking to Vicki the exact

same way, but not a single sound was coming out of my mouth. I don‘t know to this day how that

happened, because I know I was talking. I don‘t know if my body was in shock or what, but I was

talking, and there was nothing coming out of my mouth.

Then, unfortunately, three-and-one-half months later, Vicki passed away. It taught me a very

valuable lesson about life, and that is that life is short. Life is too darn short to not do what you want,

when you want, where you want, with whomever you want.

That was the life-changing moment for me. You only get one go around at this life—you might as well

enjoy it and live it to the fullest. And when I say live it to the fullest, I mean live it the way you want

to live it. If you‘re not happy in a relationship with someone, get out of it. Why would you want to go

through agony?

I don‘t make many guarantees, especially when I speak for groups. I tell the groups, ―Look, I don‘t

make many guarantees, but I‘m going to guarantee you all one thing for sure that I know as sure as

I‘m breathing, and that is this: There‘s not one of you here, nor me, who is guaranteed tomorrow

morning. Not one of us. So why would you want to live your life being unhappy?‖

That, to me, was the inspirational turning point. I have to tell you, I never thought, in my entire life,

that anything in my lifetime would come close to the experience I had with Vicki—that brother and

sister time together before she passed away, and what I learned from that experience. I never

thought anything in my life would ever come that close.

Being on the TV show Secret Millionaire, and going through the journey, and seeing the amazing

people and how it changed my life more than the money changed their lives, is second. In my heart,

it‘s not as life-changing as being with my sister, because that‘s always going to be special because it

was my sister. But Secret Millionaire, and the people I met, and what the producers and the folks on

the show allowed me to experience, was one of the greatest things I‘ve ever done.

I: I can believe that, when you‘re changing that many lives, definitely.

JM: Here‘s what‘s important, though—they changed mine more than my money changed theirs.

I: What are the three most important personal tips that you could share for achievement and

fulfillment?

JM: That‘s a good question. Number one, you can be, do, and have anything you desire in life. It may

be difficult, it may seem unfathomable, but somebody, somewhere has already blazed the trail, so

figure out who that person is, and learn from them. I don‘t care what you have to invest to learn from

them—and notice I didn‘t say spend money.

All the information for anything you want to do in life is already out there. There are books, CDs,

seminars, consulting programs, coaching programs, etc. If you want to learn how to make money in

real estate, there are people who have already done it and can teach you in split seconds how to do

it. If you want to learn how to get in shape, there are trainers. There are books. There are more

books than you could imagine. If you want to have a great marriage, there are people out there who

have great marriages. If you want to be a great parent, there are people who have great parenting

-22-

James Malinchak continued . . .

skills, whether they put them in a book or you know somebody who‘s been a great parent because

you see how they interact. Go talk with them. Go learn from them.

All the information for anything you want to do in any area of your life is out there, but you have got

to get off your assets and go get it. You have to do something about it.

Three Secrets to Success:

1. Mind-set—meaning how you think. Rich people think differently than poor people—it‘s a proven

fact. Healthy people think differently than unhealthy people. Those in shape think differently than

those out of shape. Those who succeed in business think differently than those who don‘t succeed in

business. It comes down to your mind-set.

2. Skill Set—meaning you can't just think about it and hope about it, you‘ve got to actually learn

some certain skills that will help you achieve what you want to do.

Let‘s take speaking for example. A lot of people say, ―I want to be a speaker. I have a message and I

want to empower people and inspire people. Yes, I‘m a positive person!‖ That‘s great—that‘s your

mind-set—but it takes a heck of a lot more than that. You then have to mix it with skill set.

You have to know what I call the Five P’s:

What‘s the right positioning for you in who you are and your message?

What‘s the right packaging?

What‘s the right presentation, and how should it be structured to make an impact on the

audience so that they love you and want to bring you back again and again?

What‘s the right promotion to get yourself and your story out? If nobody knows about you,

you‘re not going to make any money. You‘re going to sit at home rather than speaking.

How do you get paid? What are the seven, eight, nine different ways you get paid as a speaker?

You‘ve got to learn how to tell stories from the stage. You‘ve got to learn how to know who the

people are who control the budgets and how to get them to choose you. That‘s a skill set.

3. Get Off Your Assets—meaning you‘ve got to take action. Tony Robbins, who‘s a great positive

influence for many folks, says, ―You have to take massive action.‖ James Malinchak says, ―You have

to get off your assets and do something.‖

There‘s your three—mindset, skill set, and get off your assets.

-23-

To find out more, go to www.malinchak.com or www.bigmoneyspeaker.com

Louise Crooks

-24-

is the Keys to Clarity Coach as well

as a dynamic and inspiring coach,

radio show host, speaker, trainer,

and coauthor of Stepping Stones to

Success.

She moves clients from a powerful

vision of what they want to achieve

in business down a clear and focused

path to create a prosperous reality.

Louise coaches small business

owners in the field of transformation

and healing, to grow their young

businesses, creating a solid business

foundation and finding their visibility

platform to attract clients fast. She

brings a spiritual and intuitive

quality to her coaching that supports

the powerful results her clients

experience.

Louise also shares the power of

social media using Facebook and

online radio, as well as online and

offline marketing, through her

training programs in coaching. It is

her mission to make sure soul-driven

business owners are successful in

life and business so they can impact

their clients, promote self-growth

and healing in the world, and have

fun doing it.

I: What do you mean, Louise, when you

use the word authenticity? I think we all

have our own definition or understanding

of it.

LC: That‘s a great question. Authenticity,

I think, means different things to

different people, but really my

understanding of the word grows

constantly. It really is the true knowing

of oneself. It‘s that real connection with

the core of who you are; even to go as

far as to say it‘s connecting with your

higher self. Also, knowing your purpose,

what your path is, and being true to that.

I think it‘s two-pronged. When we can

start to live consciously because of who

we are and what we stand for, I think

that really means that we‘re living from

an authentic place.

I: What do you mean by conscious

living?

LC: Conscious living is quite a big topic all on its own. But just to give you a little insight to what I

mean by that, I think in part, is being able to access our authentic self by doing inner work. When I

say inner work, I mean being able to clear out all the baggage that holds us back, and all the

patterns of behavior that we‘ve picked up from an early age over time.

It means that we can then make choices to be able to allow ourselves to live in a proactive way,

rather than a reactive way, in life, and not just allow life to happen to us. Of course, there is that

piece around allowing, but I‘m looking at it from a different angle here.

It‘s really just about being connected to ourselves again in a very different way to be in conscious

living. Living consciously is very powerful and very connected to having access to our authentic

selves.

I: How does that create peace?

LC: That‘s a great question. It‘s one of the beautiful side effects, I believe, of living from that

authentic place. Part of not living consciously means that we‘re not connected to ourselves. When we

are connected to ourselves, and we really live from that place of knowing, there‘s a real sense of

peace and calmness that comes with that.

So often when we‘re not connected, we are playing roles in our lives. We feel the need to show up the

way we think people expect us to, and that‘s not living from our authentic self.

When we actually allow ourselves to drop those roles and live from the core of who we are, all those

behaviors fall away, and we really start to create genuine relationships – with ourselves and others.

That feels like a real alignment. It‘s just amazing how that can create a sense of peace and calmness.

I can speak from my own experience when I say that the drama starts to dissipate from our lives. We

then move beyond the stories and the drama around life and transcend that. That, of course, really

creates a sense of peace.

I: The words integrity and authenticity seem aligned—what do you think?

LC: I agree with you. I think there‘s still a distinction, but they are very intertwined. I see integrity as

being very connected to authenticity. I mentioned a moment ago about being in alignment. When

we‘re in alignment, we‘re living in integrity with our values, our needs, and our beliefs.

When we‘re not, it doesn‘t feel like we‘re living authentically. It shows up in our emotions and in our

body, and sometimes in our behavior. The key here is to check in with yourself. When you feel an

emotion or a physical sensation that feels uncomfortable, just notice. It will be very interesting what

shows up, because you‘ll often find you‘re functioning out of integrity in some way. It‘s fascinating,

actually, once you create that awareness for yourself.

I: Why is authenticity so important when networking and building businesses?

LC: It‘s really about building business relationships. We now live in a world which is really starting to

cotton on to the idea of relationship marketing. It‘s coming from that heart-centered place where we

can be real and authentic and not be in that kind of a sales-y mode, which really doesn‘t appeal to

most people; it doesn‘t further our relationships with the people we want to do business with.

Authenticity is also very important in building relationships when it comes to offering a service-based

business as with coaches and holistic practitioners and people like that. We really want to create a

sense of trust with the people that we‘re working with, and when we come from that space of a

deeper connection and being more real, the level of trust that is built from a very early point in the

relationship is powerful, and it really helps us to attract the right clients because we‘re aligned—often

with similar vision, beliefs or values . We then have strong, powerful relationships that can last a long

time. It means that we‘re also moving through the sales cycle in a much faster way. That‘s very

powerful.

-25- (Continued next page.)

I: How does it affect our personal relationships?

LC: It really does affect personal relationships. When we‘re truthful

with ourselves, when we‘re real, when we know what we want and

we feel empowered because of it, we can also then connect on a

deeper level in personal relationships. It‘s really beautiful. We can

gain that sense of alignment and knowing when a relationship really

works.

We have a real sense of connection with that person, for whatever

reason that might be. It might be that we‘re both really aligned

with our values and that we have a real sense of common purpose.

If I‘m connecting with a coach or holistic practitioner who is really

passionate about transforming people‘s lives or healing in some

way, I have a real alignment with them. I feel passionate about

what they feel passionate about.

This can help personal relationships, too, if you have a similar passion or love for a particular hobby.

My parents loved horseback riding, so they had a real connection there that was truly authentic and

real. It makes for a long and passionate relationship.

I: Does being authentic have an effect on the way we communicate?

LC: It certainly does. When we‘re connecting on a level that comes from truth and honesty and love,

rather than reacting or making assumptions and coming from a place of fear, it really has an impact

on the way we communicate, and it can come across as very different and much more attractive in

accordance to the real definition of attraction. People are drawn to us when we communicate from

that place of authentic truth.

I: Absolutely. You get that used car salesman image in your head immediately.

LC: Exactly. The thing is, most of the time when we‘re in that space of not being authentic, we‘re

playing a role. That isn‘t in alignment with who we truly are, and so it takes the pressure off when

we‘re able to communicate in a way that‘s so personally aligned with our truth.

I: I agree with you completely. How do authenticity and leadership tie in together?

LC: I think there are two pieces to this. First, imagine for example, what a leader of this country

would be like if they approached politics from a place of authenticity and embodied these qualities?

Without getting into politics, one of the reasons why I was very attracted to President Obama was

because I felt that he really came across as authentic when he ran for office.

Other leaders come to mind like Martin Luther King and Mother Teresa—those are leaders who really

identified with their true purpose, the core of who they were, and it really didn‘t matter to them what

others thought of them. They really just took a stand for what it was they believed in.

Being a leader in that way can be very powerful, and it‘s much easier to step into that role of

leadership when you start to embody who you truly are. I think this also translates to the second

prong of this, which is allowing yourself to step into a leadership role in your own life. We‘re not all

built to be leaders of big communities or of our fields, necessarily, but we can embrace the role of

leadership in our own lives and really become empowered.

I: How have you experienced this in your own life, and how has it been effective?

-26-

Louise Crooks continued . . .

LC: I would be the first to say that I‘m a work in progress. I‘m only human, and I slip back into old

habits fairly regularly, but many of them have disappeared. It‘s creating that awareness for yourself

that allows you to step back and say, ―Okay, I notice that I‘m doing this,‖ and to be able to

proactively make a different choice.

My life has changed dramatically. When I was twenty, I remember thinking at the time, My life feels

like a soap opera. There‟s always something dramatic going on. It felt like a rollercoaster. Now, I can

truly say that my life is very different than that. It‘s much more peaceful. It has a real calmness and

stability, which is very different from what it was like before.

The other part of it is that I let go of my ―story‖, which I think sometimes, if we‘re not conscious of

having a story, we then buy into the role of being a victim in our lives. I truly bought into that early

on. About ten years ago I had a realization, an awareness of what I was doing, and just by having

that awareness to choose something different, I chose to take control and to take charge of my life,

and now it looks very different. I am my own leader.

I: Good for you. A lot of people don‘t recognize that they‘re in that victim

mentality and take the action it requires to come back out of it. Some people do.

LC: It takes work. It‘s not easy, but you know, once you realize what the costs

have been to you, it‘s a much easier choice. It just takes practice.

I: Changing your mind-set doesn‘t happen today—it happens slowly, replacing

those thoughts.

LC: Yes, but once you have that awareness, you can never go back, which is

wonderful. You can't unlearn what you‘ve learned.

I: What would you suggest to help someone start consciously living from an

authentic place?

Living Authentically

Identify who you really are. I know that‘s a very broad stroke, but just really getting an

understanding of what your values are, what you feel passionate about, what you‘re going for—

your vision, really start to get that sense of connection with who you truly are.

Drop your stories and excuses. Often we live our lives excusing ourselves or checking out.

Getting connected to your true self—that would be the second thing. You can do some of this

work on your own, but I wouldn‘t recommend doing it all on your own. There really are some

amazing programs out there to help you to do the inner work. Don‘t think that I‘m expecting you

to do this all on your own.

Practice being honest with yourself and embrace the leader in you. Recognize that there is

the possibility of embracing this aspect of yourself and really allow yourself to step into who you

truly are and what you‘re truly meant to be doing here.

I: What does coaching look like when it‘s done at this conscious level of experience in life?

LC: You can just imagine, can't you? The growth at this level is amazing when you have someone

who‘s really hungry to learn, who‘s ready to stop making excuses, and who is in that space of

allowing themselves to be open and to grow and to recognize that. We all have challenges and

obstacles that get in our way—even leaders in our field, myself included. We always have things that

get in our way. I just cleared a belief a couple of weeks ago that I never realized I had—I was blown

away by that.

-27- (Continued next page.)

“If we‟re not

conscious of having a

story, we can buy

into the role of being

a victim in our

lives.”

Really, just be open to not knowing and be able to say to yourself, ―I don‘t know, and I want to

expand and learn more.‖ I think when we come from that space of, ―I know,‖ it shuts everything

down. When you‘re having a conversation and someone says something, and the other person says,

―I know,‖ it immediately stops you from going into that place of expansion and learning—and shuts

down the other person talking too.

Somebody who has done this inner work is really in a space of growth. They want to get out of their

own way. They have a lot of self-awareness, and they‘re really hungry to do the work that‘s going to

get them clear on where they‘re going and what impact they want to have in the world and with their

clients, and make sure they‘re doing it. Even if fear shows up, even if challenges show up, they really

want to make a difference, and keep doing the inner work.

I: I can believe that. What are the opportunities now available to those who want this for

themselves?

LC: There are so many of them once the awareness has been created, such as stepping out and

embracing the leader in you. We all have that aspect of ourselves in one form or another. Also, to be

able to get beyond the ―me‖ or the ―I,‖ and beyond taking things personally. It‘s really about looking

at the bigger picture, and then once you‘re able to do that and tap into that, to be able to give back

in a huge way. That‘s another big one.

Allow yourself to step into the role of what you‘re here for. Be really, fully committed to going for it—

even when obstacles crop up.

Finally, the key to it all is to create prosperity, peace, and happiness in our lives.

I: I completely agree with you. What inspires you, Louise?

LC: What really inspires me, and actually makes me feel very emotional when I‘m working with

clients, is when I see my clients helping and healing. When I see what they‘re doing, and I hear what

they‘re doing, how it‘s making such a difference in the world—especially when there‘s so much

suffering and struggling out there—it really inspires me. What also really inspires me is when I can

help them to get out there and do it in a big way, because so often soulopreneurs or soul-driven

business owners just haven't had the opportunity or the know-how to get visible and to attract clients

to make that big impact. When that happens, that really inspires me.

I: How do you inspire others to change their lives?

LC: Hopefully I‘m doing all that I can to do that, but really it‘s about giving my clients a platform or a

springboard to get the visibility they need. I do that through my programs. Everything I do is pretty

much about shining the spotlight on the gifts and talents that my clients have, clearing any obstacles

and helping them get out into the world in a bigger way. Also, living from my truth—being myself and

living passionately and with a sense of purpose.

I: Why did you choose this arena for your life‘s great work?

LC: It kind of found me. I had some experiences through my own health issues

that brought me to experiencing some alternative therapies like acupuncture,

homeopathy, and coaching. The impact was life changing.

I realized that I wanted people out there to know that it was there, that it was

available to them. I found out, particularly with the alternative therapies, that

they were available to me, but only after the fact. If I had known from the start

that they were available, perhaps I would have made some different choices. We

can only make choices from the knowledge that we have, so it‘s important for us

to get the word out. I‘m very inspired when it comes to that.

Louise Crooks continued . . .

-28-

“Allow yourself to step into the

role that you‟re here for.

Be really, fully committed to

going for it—even when

obstacles

crop up.”

I also have a background in sales through a previous career in

recruitment and business startups. The marriage between coaching

and my sales background, as well as creating visibility is a beautiful

one, and I‘m very passionate about it.

I: Excellent. How do you define success?

LC: I define success really from the sense of living into the vision that

you‘re creating—getting clear on what that is, and then seeing the

results that it‘s creating. I think we all determine success in different

ways, but I think there are some different aspects to it. If your

mission is to have an impact on people‘s lives, to see healing and

transformation in the world, like it is mine, then you‘ll know that

you‘re being successful when you see it happening around you.

Success for me is also doing what I do from an authentic place, doing

it in a way where I can be myself and do it comfortably, and from a

space of prosperity and ease. I don‘t expect to be living on the street

trying to do this. I think a lot of soulpreneurs have a poverty consciousness, and I don‘t believe the

Universe intended that for us. I think that we can do good, and we can be financially successful, and

we can do it in a very comfortable way. That‘s what success means to me.

I: What is your most powerful moment of success or life change?

LC: That‘s an interesting question. I just recently launched my program, The Business Springboard,

and the first phase of it actually involved going through questionnaires with clients to help them

clarify who they‘re serving and what they‘re doing for the individuals they serve. Every time I did it

with them, and their message started to come through loud and clear, I kept tearing up and feeling

very emotional, but it was a real sense of joy. It really gave me a sense that I‘m doing what I‘m

meant to be doing, and it really means so much to me. As far as success, that says it all.

I: I like that. What are your three most important personal tips you could share in regards to

achievement and fulfillment?

LC: First, I would say do the inner work. Do the work that will allow your authentic self to emerge

and be seen. It‘s not a straightforward path; it has its challenges. I won't say it‘s easy, but it‘s so

worth it. The freedom and the peace that you feel through that is just incredible.

Second, get clear on what you’re going for and who you’re serving, so they can hear you

through all the mind clutter—all the ―info crap,‖ as my mentor says. We‘re overloaded with

information in this technological world we live in right now, so we want to make sure that we‘re

reaching the people we need to reach, to help them by really getting clear and specific on what we‘re

going for and who we‘re serving, so our ideal potential clients can hear us.

Third, don’t do it on your own. Work with a coach or a mentor to shine a light on blind spots, to

get a different perspective on things, and for focus, accountability, and resources that you might not

have.

I think a lot of soulpreneurs out there try and do it on their own, and they can only go so far. It‘s a

very isolating experience if they try and do that continually. We don‘t know what we don‘t know, and

when we‘re missing something, we don‘t know that we‘re missing it. Having a mentor there for

support is invaluable.

I have a coach—in fact, I have a couple of coaches. I couldn‘t do this on my own. I have a team of

people who help me. I know that it‘s not always easy to have a team initially, but at some point

you‘re going to want to let go of different pieces of your business and just allow other people to

support you with their expertise so you can get on and do what you do best.

-29- (Continued next page.)

I: Letting go is hard.

LC: It really is. I think a lot of us struggle with that; but if you don‘t let go, it just stops your business

growth. I remember when I hired a virtual assistant, and my business just jumped forward like crazy.

It‘s amazing how once you farm out those things that you don‘t enjoy, or feel stuck by, affects the

energy and the flow of your business.

I: It really does. When you‘re in the middle of trying to get everything done and trying to make

things happen, it‘s hard to see that you‘re in the middle of this tornado. You don‘t realize it. You just

don‘t see it.

I see that over and over again when people are in trauma or, as you said, are victims, or they‘ve

gone through something—they‘re in the middle of it, and sometimes somebody who is a friend might

have the answer, and you say, ―Oh! How did you know that?‖ Well, because she‘s not in it.

LC: In fact, a coach or a mentor is going to be even different than a friend, because they‘re going to

have more of an objective perspective, which is very helpful, because then you don‘t feel like there‘s

some sort of bias or hidden agenda that even your friend doesn‘t realize they have.

I: They don‘t bring their issues into your discussion. It‘s about you and only you.

LC: Exactly. Also nurture that spiritual connection, whatever that is for you. I believe that when you

do the inner work and you do it really thoroughly, you do get connected to that soul presence, that

continuity to that within and beyond yourself.

We have such busy lives, and we get caught up in the day-to-day stuff, and when we create the

space for nurturing our spirituality, our connection with Spirit or the Universe or God, it‘s a very

powerful way to take that step back, to rest the mind, to nurture ourselves. What ultimately happens

is that we actually are much happier, of course, because we‘re doing that, but we also are much more

productive in our businesses. It‘s like refueling a car.

I: I used to always be frantically working and going and doing something, because I‘m a mom and I

work and I have a life, so I‘m busy. I used to be extremely busy like that, and I never took time out

for me. I would get sick, and I‘d say, ―I come up with the best ideas when I‘m sick—I wonder why

that is?‖ My husband would say, ―Because that‘s the only time you stop.‖

LC: Your body is telling you what it needs. The creativity that can come from stillness can be

amazing, actually.

I: I agree. Tell me how all these tips work for you.

LC: I‘m an ―ideas‖ person—I‘m a typical entrepreneur in that sense, and I can get very overwhelmed

with all the different things that I‘m doing. To recognize that, and to nurture myself and set time

aside, really helps me to calm my mind, connect to myself, and do it in a very proactive way so that I

can create that focus and clarity with what it is that I‘m doing. Practice ‗being‘ to be great at the

‗doing‘.

As I said, I work with a couple of coaches. I have a buddy coach who I meet with every week, and it‘s

all about how I‘m taking care of myself, because I know that that‘s an area that I tend to let go of.

Louise Crooks continued . . .

-30-

“We have such busy lives, and we get caught up in the day-to-day stuff, and when we create the space for nurturing our spirit, it‟s a very powerful

way to take that step back, to rest the mind, to nurture ourselves.‖

We talk about how we can support each other with keeping our bodies healthy and nurturing

ourselves, taking time out to get that spiritual connection. We also focus on taking care of our

wellness—making appointments with the dentists, or having a mammogram, or whatever it is that

needs done to take care of those things. Otherwise, they just fall by the wayside for me.

I: Do not feel guilty. Most women are very bad about taking care of themselves. It‘s amazing,

though, isn't it? We‘re so busy taking care of everybody else that we forget to take care of ourselves.

LC: I truly believe that if we‘re going to live authentically, we need to walk the talk. We‘re

constantly—particularly as coaches and healers—coaching people around doing this for themselves,

and if we‘re not doing it for ourselves, where does that leave us?

I: Emotionally drained.

LC: Absolutely. We‘re also out of integrity. Get clear on what you‘re going for. I work with a coach to

make sure that I‘m on track, I‘m on purpose, I‘m tweaking what it is that I‘m doing and the direction

that I‘m going in, and it‘s an evolutionary process. Never feel that you have to know exactly what it

is right this minute to be able to move forward. Just allow yourself to be in the space of a growing

and allowing, and then just enjoy the results.

I‘ve been working on myself for the last ten years. When I realized that I could, that was a huge

turning point for me—huge. In fact, I actually do a lot of work now through an organization called The

Journey. If anyone is interested in looking that up, they can go to www.thejourneyusa.com. The work

that they do is just absolutely fabulous—the inner work, clearing out blocks and beliefs and any

emotional stuff that comes up as well as getting connected to Spirit. I‘ve been involved with the

organization for the last four years. That‘s my way of taking care of myself and doing the inner

work—getting rid of my baggage.

I: Good for you. I think coaches, especially, are constantly working on themselves in some way. It

just seems to go hand-in-hand, because we learn so much, why not use it, right?

LC: Absolutely.

-31-

For more information

about

Louise Crooks

http://keystoclarity.com/

is a twelve-year veteran business coach,

consultant, author, and speaker. He is

President of Business Growth Solutions, a

company specializing in helping solo and

micro businesses attract more clients,

grow their business, and live the

prosperous life they deserve. To date,

thousands of business owners have

grown as a result of Michael’s live

seminars, teleprograms, audio products,

books, and workbooks.

Michael held senior management

positions with both Embassy Suites and

American Golf Corporation, then founded

two successful companies—Coach and

Grow Rich and Business Growth

Solutions. He understands firsthand the

struggles of the small business owner.

Michael’s current speaking program

focuses on sharing his knowledge and

experience in starting a business,

surviving in business, and how to sell and

market yourself and your products in a

successful, nonstressful, and fun way.

In addition to his training and speaking,

he wrote and published From Grunt to

Greatness, a different kind of self-help

book, in October 2005. This is a

humorous but hard-hitting lesson on

loving ourselves now and enjoying the

journey as we pursue our personal best.

Michael’s passion is writing and speaking.

He travels throughout the United States

and internationally, delivering high

energy, educational, inspirational, and

humorous talks.

I: First of all, what inspires you, Michael?

MC: I‘m a pretty passionate guy, so I get

inspired by a lot of things, but if I‘m

understanding the question correctly, the

thing I most love doing and that I‘m most

inspired by is helping people reach their goals.

I grew up listening to self-help audios, seeing

great speakers, reading great books, and as a

kid I used to think, Wow! What must it be like

to be able to do that for a living? I think it was

in part because those speakers and authors

inspired me so much. I got the bug to not only

be inspired, but to inspire.

Michael Charest

-32-

I really try to live my life inspiring others, and for me it‘s not so much about

being perfect and living ―the perfect life.‖ You mentioned my book, From

Grunt to Greatness—I‘m kind of a grunt. I‘m a workhorse. I‘m a regular guy

who has struggles and challenges just like anybody, but I'm inspired to

pursue my personal best, to achieve my goals, to achieve my dreams, and

the way I do that is by helping others.

I think that‘s the coolest thing about folks in our business and people I like

to emulate and admire—we get to practice what we preach. Among other

things, I think that‘s what inspires me.

I: You mentioned that you like to inspire others; how do you inspire others?

MC: A lot of it is through humor. One of my main messages—and there are

several main message—but one of them is that you can do it, you can

achieve the life of your dreams. In my case, a lot of my teaching is about

helping others understand you can have the business of your dreams, and

part of that is believing you can do it. Believe in yourself, believe in your

products and services, and believe in your ability to market.

What I try to do is to inspire people to first believe, and I do that through the spoken word, through

writing, through blogs, through the Internet, and through teleclasses. It‘s all about really, really

helping folks believe that they can do it.

I think God put us here for a reason. I think these goals and dreams that we have within us are not

there by accident. I believe God put them in our hearts, and I kind of believe part of my mission on

earth is to help bring that forth. Don‘t get me wrong—God does that, but I try to be a vehicle and do

it with humor.

I think we have a tendency to ask ourselves, ―Who am I to want to be a millionaire, or a successful

business owner, or to attract my soul mate, or to have a great house, or to be a great parent? Who

am I to live this life?‖ We all deserve it. We all have our struggles and our challenges, and so I try to

be inspiring through humor—by poking fun at myself, by sharing my struggles—and people get a kick

out of it. They think, Well, if Mike can do it with all the mistakes he‟s made, then maybe I can too.

That‘s how I inspire people, I guess, through being a goofball.

I: Let me ask you then, do you have a story that you can share that would exemplify exactly what

you‘re talking about?

MC: I‘m sure I have many, but one of the stories I tell in my book took place about 13 years ago,

back in late 1997. After years of wanting to be a life coach and a business coach (back in the early

days I wanted to be a life coach), I attended a Peter Lowe seminar at the LA Forum and there must

have been twenty thousand people there. Zig Zigler was speaking there as well as Colin Powell and

maybe Tony Robbins.

I thought, Wow, anybody who would go to a Peter Lowe seminar—they‟re my market. Anybody who

loves this would be my market.

I created a flyer. There was no way I could have gotten it on twenty thousand cars, but I hired a

group of six people to help me place three thousand flyers on the windshields of cars there, while

avoiding the security guards because you‘re not supposed to do that. It was pouring rain, so we had

to go to the store and buy plastic bags to put each flyer in and then put them on the windshields in

the pouring rain.

I had a 1-800 number. I thought, Three thousand people times 1%—I‟m going to get thirty clients

just from this one marketing strategy. I‟m going to be full by the end of the day. I rushed home. I

actually blew a tire on my way home in the pouring rain and had to have AAA come help me. I

-33- (Continued next page.)

“We have a

tendency to ask ourselves, „Who

am I to want to be a millionaire, or a

successful business owner, or

to attract my soul mate, or to have a

great house, or to be a great parent?

Who am I to live this life?‟

We all deserve it.”

couldn‘t wait to see how many messages I had on my 1-800 number—which was zero. I got two calls

over the next three weeks, and gained zero clients.

That‘s one of the stories that I tell. Once I tell people that, they have stories. They say, ―Oh, you did

that? Wait until you hear mine! Wait until you hear how I fell flat on my face!‖

What do we have to do? We have to get up and shake ourselves off. I think we have a tendency to

think that some of the big players out there, these people that we admire, didn‘t struggle—and of

course, they did too.

That‘s one example of a story that just went so badly, but it was just one in the many, many things

one needs to do to pick oneself up, dust themselves off, and get back to work.

I: You mentioned Anthony Robbins—I know for a fact he talks about how he fell on his face as well.

He had trouble when he started out.

MC: Isn't that great about him? I think one of the things we love

about Tony Robbins is here‘s this big, handsome guy, and he‘s so

massive in his success, but he keeps it real.

I: Very authentic.

MC: He owns a private island, but he still keeps it real, which I love.

I: You kind of answered this, but why did you choose this arena for

your life‘s great work?

MC: My whole life I was studying self-help, and I always thought,

Maybe someday I could do something like that. I also had another

dream to be a hotel manager. I used to watch that show Hotel. I

might be dating myself, but I used to look at James Brolin—he

played the general manager of the hotel, and Connie Sellecca played

his assistant—and he drove a Porsche. I thought, Oh wow—that‟s the

life! I literally chose the hotel industry because of that, kind of

tempering this desire to be a self-help guy.

I did the hotel thing, went into country clubs, and then finally said,

―You know what? I‘m going to do this.‖ I didn‘t know what it was

called, but I suddenly found this book, The Portable Coach, by

Thomas Leonard, which was unbelievable. I devoured that book in a

Barnes and Noble one day, bought it, and went home and registered

for a coaching skills weekend with Coach U, and that‘s how it got

started for me.

Over the first couple of years, I started honing my focus to wanting to help service professionals,

because I believe service professionals, people who start their own business, are the coolest people in

the world. They‘ve had the courage to leave Corporate America to pursue their dreams, and yet they

struggle. I started saying, ―These are the people I want to help, in large part because they‘re me.‖

I remember when I first started my coaching business. I was so sure I was going to be successful

that I rented a $2,500 a month condo right on the beach in Southern California. I could hear the

whales. I could hear the seals jumping up on the buoy at night—that‘s how close I was. After month

two, I couldn‘t make my rent payment and had many, many, many tough months and even years,

and I said, ―This is the group of people I want to help, because they‘re like me, and like me, they

deserve to have success, but they don‘t know how to do it.‖ That‘s how it came full circle.

I: Sales and marketing are completely different animals than trying to help somebody. It is quite a

Michael Charest continued . . .

-34-

thing to introduce this and help people through this. What

would be one guiding point that someone would need to

do, and what would be a good way for them to focus?

MC: There‘s so much. Like I said, my focus evolved to

being a service-based professional coach to teach those

individuals sales and marketing. That‘s kind of wrapped in

the overall self-help umbrella. There are a number of areas

that service-based professionals fall flat on in regards to

the marketing of their businesses.

The cool thing is, success in business, in my opinion, is a

science—meaning you can follow certain steps, certain

laws. Of course there are laws of the Universe, gravity,

reciprocity, the Law of Attraction—but I‘m talking about

laws for converting a prospect from interest to a buyer—

there are eleven specific steps to walk them through.

We, as service providers, owe it to ourselves to learn

exactly what we need to learn in order to get leads, to

cultivate those leads, and to turn those leads into clients, if

they‘re meant to be, and it‘s a science. It‘s a science with

an artistic flair, meaning you, as the service provider, can

put your own personal brand on it, but you can‘t ignore the

steps.

What I find solopreneurs get into trouble with is they want to create everything on their own. They

think it‘s almost wrong to find out what the model is and to copy it. And so my challenge to folks is,

don‘t reinvent the wheel. There is a science, there is a system. Follow it, put your personal brand,

your personal touch, on it—that‘s where the art comes in—and then do it.

So many people aren‘t taking action. I taught just today, as an example, that to make a quarter of a

million dollars a year as a service professional, you need to be spending 25% of your work time

marketing, which is 12.5 hours a week or 50 hours a month.

The people I said this to about fell out of their chairs. They said, ―I‘m not doing anywhere near that!‖

I said, in a loving way, ―Well, that‘s why you‘re not doing anywhere near a quarter of a million

dollars. If you do, if you follow this system, do the steps, apply yourself, and actually do it, and learn

what to do and how to do it, you will achieve success. It‘s indisputable.‖ Any client I‘ve ever coached

who followed this system and took action got tremendous results.

Going back to what inspires me—that inspires me. It‘s not rocket science, just follow the steps.

I: You brought up success—how do you define success?

MC: Oh, ask me a bigger question! How do I define success? I‘m going to answer that kind of easily,

just because I took an enormous amount of time thinking about how to define success, and that‘s

what my book was about. I know this sounds like I‘m reading it, but it‘s because I‘ve done thousands

of hours of thinking about it.

To me, success is the pursuit of your personal best, without attachment to outcome, while

enjoying the journey along the way. Then I break out elements in there. It‘s the pursuit of your

personal best. Success isn't the attainment of your personal best, because you may never attain that

which God made you capable of attaining, but I think success is pursuing it.

I think we owe it to ourselves to pursue it, to enjoy the journey along the way, and then another

piece I add is the pursuit of success in each critical element of life, which we know is money, family,

relationships, our career, our health, etc. Success is that pursuit, and whether or not we attain it,

-35- (Continued next page.)

“Success in business is a science with

an artistic flair . . . Don‟t reinvent the wheel. There is a science, there is a

system. Follow it, put your personal brand, your personal touch, on it—that‟s where the art comes in—and

then do it.”

what matters is that we‘re giving it our all, and we‘re enjoying it along the way. That‘s how I perceive

it.

I: I completely agree with you because what success means to me may be something completely

different to you, and it could be completely different to somebody else. It can't be just money or just

a relationship, but it could be that individually. I don‘t think you can define somebody else‘s success.

MC: No—and it‘s funny that you say that, because another way you can define success is whatever

you think it is. That‘s really all that matters. If you define it one way and I define it another, as long

as we‘ve got the definition and we‘re going for it, then that‘s success.

I: What is your most powerful moment of success or life change?

MC: I don‘t know that I can define my most powerful moment of success, but I think what I am most

proud of—and I use that term loosely—is having the courage to leave Corporate America to start my

own business, and then to create and manage that in an ethical way that supports my family.

I‘m not married, but one of the things I said when I started my business was if my mom, my sister-in

-law, and my brother want to work with me, they can. I wanted to provide a stay-at-home

environment for my family. My dad was sick at the time, and he has since died, that‘s why I didn‘t

mention him—well, he would never want to work for me, and I mean that in a good way.

Anyway, to this day I am proud to say my mom works for me full time, my sister-in-law works for me

full time, my brother works for me part time, and we‘ve really created a family business. That makes

me feel like I‘m successful. And then just the fact that I took the risk of starting this, that which I felt

like I was put on earth to do, and had the courage to do it, because it was really, really hard—really

hard.

I: I appreciate you mentioning that, because it does take a lot of courage to step out on your own.

You mentioned that it‘s difficult, but what would you recommend that would possibly make it easier?

This creates fear in a lot of people, so what would be something that maybe you went through that

you could recommend to for helping someone who really wants to step out, but hasn‘t really taken

that step yet?

MC: There are so many different levels, but I think the first one is I

pray—and I‘m speaking to the readers right now—I pray that you

know that the feeling you have within, the stirring that you have, is a

higher power. Just trust that that‘s not you. You‘re not wanting to

make a leap because you want it. To me, that‘s God placing that

within you.

Find peace and know that you‘re not alone. You‘re not alone. There

are coaches and folks out there who can support you, but it all starts

with God. That feeling you have is coming to you from your Creator.

What a good feeling! Then, just commit to taking a step. Maybe it‘s a

tiny step each day, or a little bit bigger step each week. What I mean

by that is you might say, ―I‘m going to read something inspirational

every day for the next week,‖ or ―I‘m going to pray.‖ A bigger step

might be committing once a week, ―I‘m going to research a coach

who might be able to help me,‖ or ―I‘m going to Google this topic,

this profession, that I think I might want to take a leap in pursuing.

I‘m going to do a little bit of research.‖

What happens is this higher power starts leading you and putting the

right people, the right things, in your path. And then the next step is

to pay attention. Realize what‘s happening. It‘s beautiful. You‘ll get

signs, you‘ll get people, you‘ll get things to read, you‘ll get Web sites

Michael Charest continued . . .

-36-

that seemingly flow to you. Pay attention and commit to taking another

step.

That‘s what my advice would be—that compilation of those things. And all

the while, remember, you‘re being guided. I kept saying that to myself:

―There‘s a reason I‘m being pulled to not want to be a country club

manager anymore. God has something bigger in store, and I owe it to

myself and I owe it to Him to pursue that.‖

I: I talk to a lot of different people who are at various levels of success, but

I‘ll tell you, every one of them have the same consistent thought—the ones

that have stepped out on their own. They didn‘t choose this for their life‘s

work, it was chosen for them. They were called to do exactly this, and all

the successful people I know, they have that calling, they had that feeling.

They didn‘t choose it, it chose them. You pretty much have said that, but

you probably were so young you don‘t remember it choosing you, but it

definitely sounds like it did.

MC: I appreciate you saying that, because I know you‘ve interviewed a lot of incredible people for

this magazine, and just hearing you validate something that I said as a result of your personal

experience and what you‘ve heard from these other people, that‘s awesome. That‘s very validating.

Again, for the readers, please trust, and like we said, just take a step.

I heard Jack Canfield say something once about how the headlight of a car only shows two hundred

feet ahead. You don‘t need to see the light illuminating from New York City to Providence, Rhode

Island in order to get there. You just need to see the two hundred feet in front of you. Then, as you

move forward, the light goes another two hundred feet from that point. I‘ve never forgotten that. I

thought, Wow, that‟s perfect!

If you try to figure it all out in advance and ask yourself, ―How am I going to make the jump? Where

am I going to get the money? What is my wife going to think? What happens if I fail? How am I going

to create a Web site?‖ you‘re going to make yourself sick. Just worry about the next step.

I: Like you said, it will flow to you. If you don‘t go the right way you‘re supposed to go, life will push

you there eventually. It will just shove you. It‘s like it‘s telling you, ―I‘ve asked you nicely three

times—now you‘re getting shoved.‖ Once you‘re on your right path, like you said, it flows to you. It

comes to you, and doors will open that you didn‘t even know were there. You‘re able to see the

opportunities that you had no idea existed for you. You‘re absolutely right. I completely agree with

you about that.

MC: There‘s just one quick thing I want to say after that, and I don‘t know if this is the same as, or

different from, what other folks say, but I need to speak my truth. Even with all that, it‘s not easy.

For those folks who are reading this and thinking, Oh, so he‟s saying, for example, leaving my career

and starting my own business is easy. No way am I saying that.

Something being easy and something being the right thing are two different things. I hope people

don‘t take that as being cynical, but rather real, so that when you encounter five hundred road blocks

and you fall and you get back up, you‘re not thinking, Oh, I‟m the only one. Mike and these other

folks said it was going to be easy; there must be something wrong. No, we‘re not saying it‘s easy, but

you‘ve got to do it anyway.

I: Exactly. Thank you for clarifying that.

MC: You‘re welcome.

I: What are the three most important personal tips you could share for achievement and fulfillment?

- 37- (Continued next page.)

Just commit to

taking a step. ~

And then pay attention—you‟ll

see signs. ~

Then commit to taking another

step. ~

And all the while, remember, you‟re

being guided.

Finding Achievement and Fulfillment

Work on building your belief on a daily

basis. Take time out of every single day—I beg

you—to build your personal belief. Build your

belief in yourself. I think our lack of self-esteem

and our lack of self-love, or maybe it‘s the cracks

in our armor of self-love and acceptance, are what

most get in our way.

Read inspirational material. Repeat your mantras.

Do your visualizations. Say your prayers or your

incantations. Go for power walks. It‘s not rocket

science, and you‘ve got to do it. A half-hour in the

morning, a half-hour at night.

The first thing I do when I wake up in the morning

is I say, ―I love myself, I love myself, I love

myself. I can do it. I‘m special. God put me here

for a reason‖—those kinds of mantras—that‘s

number one.

Take action. Everybody‘s got great ideas.

Everybody‘s got plans. The difference between

those who make it and those who don‘t are the

ones who act—period. It sounds so simple. We‘ve

heard Tony Robbins say it nine billion times: take

action, take massive action.

That is the difference—it‘s the only difference

between the ones who are thinking about it and

the ones who are doing it—action. What makes us

act? Belief. If you see somebody taking action,

they believe in themselves. If you see somebody

hiding, they don‘t.

Measure your results. Believe, take action,

and then measure. Is it working? Is it working

well? What kinds of results are other people

getting? How are my results better or worse than

theirs? What can I be doing to do better?

Those are three constant things we‘re teaching in

our program. If you believe in yourself, take

action, measure the results, and then fine tune

and never stop committing to improvement, it just becomes a life cycle. It never ends, and you‘ll

always be growing.

You want to talk about enjoying the journey—it‘s fun. Growth is fun. The pursuit of success is fun.

That‘s what I believe it‘s about. Not just the pursuit of success for the sake of it, but to serve

people— to make an impact on the world—it‘s fun! What else is there?

I: You‘re never working—you‘re just enjoying yourself.

MC: There are days where, yes, I definitely feel I‘m working, but for the most part I can't tell

between work and play. I just had a seminar at my house. We did a speaking mastery. There were

Michael Charest continued . . .

-38-

eight people who attended. My mom came in and we cooked them breakfast, lunch, and dinner. We

played with the dog and we got in the hot tub, and we worked our butts off in front of a camera.

People were learning how to speak, how to sell from the podium. Is that work or play? I don‘t know.

What I just described to you, does that sound like work?

I: Not at all.

MC: Not to me.

I: You talked about building belief as it applies to you—tell me how the rest of your other two

suggestions work for you.

MC: As far as action, I‘m a big believer, and I alluded to this earlier, that there‘s a science. What I do

for my clients, for example, is I map out my monthly plan. There are certain things you should be

doing every day, every week, every month, in order to achieve the success that you desire. It‘s

committing to that and, for me, it‘s using my coach to hold me accountable.

I‘m just like everybody else. If I‘m not held accountable, I‘ll find anything else

to do other than what I committed to doing. It‘s a funny thing, and we don‘t

have time to get into the psychology of it. Even if we did, I don‘t know that I

know the answer. We don‘t do what we know we need to do. It‘s unique. You

work with a coach, you have that person hold you accountable. I‘ll commit to

my coach, ―These are the twenty-two things that I‘m going to do this week to

move my business and my life forward.‖ At our next call, he‘s asking me, ―Did

you do this?‖ That‘s action.

The third part is measuring results. I‘ve done a lot of research. I‘m always

creating thresholds. For every action, there is a goal and a measurement. Did

I achieve it, or didn‘t I? Did I get the results, or didn‘t I? Then I scrutinize. I

ask myself, ―What could I have done better?‖ That‘s how it works. It‘s a bit

laborious, but you get into a pattern where everything you‘re doing is action,

measurement, fine tuning, action, measurement, fine tuning.

I do a lot of that with my coach, and that‘s the work I do for people too,

because God bless us, we don‘t take the action if we don‘t have a coach kind

of kicking us and inspiring us and cajoling us along the way. Did that answer

your question?

I: It certainly did, and I really appreciate you talking with me. Thank you so much. You gave us a lot

of great suggestions and some good information.

MC: I had a blast. Thanks!

-39-

www.michaelcharest.com

“Growth is fun.

The pursuit of success is fun.

That‟s what I believe it‟s

about. Not just the pursuit of

success for the sake of it, but to

serve people— to make an

impact on the world . . .

What else is there?‖

Bryan Caplovitz

is the mastermind behind www.speakermatch.com, the

world’s largest online speaker’s bureau. A computer whiz

who occasionally spoke to other folks in his field at

technical conferences, Bryan came up with the idea of

Speaker Match after trying to line up a speaking gig for

himself to help cover the expenses of a trip to California.

When Bryan couldn’t find anyone to help him, he invented

a company to help folks like himself land speaking

opportunities, and the rest is dot com history. Now,

www.speakermatch.com helps line up thousands of

speakers on all topics with meetings and event planners

who need speakers—from local service clubs to the

biggest speaking events in America.

I: What makes a great speaker, and what makes a lousy

speaker?

BC: Those are really good questions. I think that what really

makes a great speaker has to do more with the way that the

audience is responding to the speaker than anything else, and

ultimately the audience is looking for an entertainer.

The meeting planner ultimately is looking for a speaker who is

going to motivate and excite their audience and add some

energy to the room. They‘re not looking for somebody who‘s

going to stand up at the front of the room and hold onto the

podium or read off of their Power Point slides. They don‘t want

somebody who is going to speak in a monotone.

What I hear from most meeting planners is that they are looking

for somebody who is going to be good for their audience. I think

that‘s what a speaker needs to start with. They need to make

sure they are a good entertainer.

I: That makes sense. What resources do you need in order to get

started?

BC: If you‘re looking to become a speaker, you need to come

with a basic expertise. You need to have the knowledge base,

and probably the most important thing that you need to be

prepared with is the ability to tell a good story. Telling a good

story is probably 95% of what a good speaker needs to be able

to do.

As far as resources, people talk about all kinds of other things

that you need to have. I‘m not sure if that‘s where you‘re going,

but if you‘re talking about Web sites, one sheets, business cards,

head shots, and all that stuff, I think that those things are

probably pretty important for marketing, but once you get the

job, you need to be prepared to deliver a really good product.

For me that means that you‘re a good storyteller.

I: You can hire for all of the things you were just mentioning, the

marketing, etc., but you can't hire yourself to be able to get up

there and speak. How much money can you make as a speaker?

BC: There are definitely people who are making very high

-40-

speaking fees, and those are the kinds of things that you hear about in the news—people like Bill

Clinton who are earning $375,000 per engagement or more. And I believe Bill Cosby makes that as

well.

Celebrities are definitely the ones who are making the bulk of that kind of income, and a celebrity

could be an entertainer, a sports figure, an Olympic athlete, etc. It could also be a CEO of a company

like Steve Forbes or someone like Steve Jobs who could definitely command a high fee. Anybody who

has appeared on Oprah is a celebrity, even if it‘s a relatively unheard of author before Oprah talked

about them. Once Oprah has talked about you, you‘re a celebrity, and you can command a lot of

money.

For the most part, most of the people who are out there speaking are not earning a whole lot in

speaking fees. I think the average for the National Speakers Association members—and those are the

people who are making a living through professional speaking—is somewhere around $5,000 per

speech. There aren‘t a whole lot of people—it‘s a very small percentage—who are making fees that

are higher than that. I think that the great majority of people are making $1,500 or less, and that‘s

for a talk lasting an hour.

I: I see; $5,000 is still very good. How do you find speaking leads?

BC: There are a lot of good ways that you can go about finding places to speak. You can ask friends,

colleagues, or meeting planners. You can also work your social networks like Facebook and LinkedIn

and look for opportunities there.

There are a lot of things to be found online. If you go to Google and search ―call for speakers,‖ or

―speakers wanted,‖ you‘ll find lots of things that are available. The biggest problem with searching

like that is that you‘ll come up with lots of results, but then you have to go through and filter

everything. Even though you may find a hundred places to speak, a lot of those opportunities may

have expired because they were from 2004. Maybe the topic that they‘re looking for isn't what you

speak on. Maybe they‘re not paying what you want. It might not be in the location that you‘re looking

for.

I think that we have the best alternative for people looking for places to speak. Obviously, I‘m a little

biased, but the Speaker Match service basically does all of those things. We‘re going through all of

the different resources that are available to us—Chambers of Commerce, places like Rotary Clubs,

and local organizations. We are looking for places that hire speakers, and then we are filtering and

cataloging those results so that speakers, or people who are looking for the jobs, can come in and

look for the opportunities they want. They can search through the database and look for things that

are in their local area, things that pay a certain amount, and things that are categorized under their

specific topic. They have a lot of opportunities to narrow it down, so the search is a lot more efficient.

I: How do meeting planners find speakers?

BC: Meeting planners are actually doing a lot of the same things, just in reverse. Before I talk about

meeting planners and how they find speakers, let me just make sure that people understand

something about what meeting planners are, and who meeting planners are.

There are a number of people who are professional meeting planners. They are the people who are

taking care of making sure that the caterers are doing what they need to, that the lighting is set up,

and that the stage and the sound systems are taken care of. They help with getting invitations out

and with registration, and getting speakers is one of the things that they do.

Most meeting planners are volunteers for organizations such as church groups, youth groups, Rotary

clubs, networking clubs, and those kinds of things. They‘re also often assistants for somebody at one

of those organizations—an association, or even a Fortune 500 company.

For example, a Fortune 500 company may have a huge sales department, and let‘s say the Vice

President of Sales wants to have a conference for the sales team. There may be five hundred people

-41- (Continued next page.)

that he or she has coming to a conference; that Vice President might go to their assistant and just

hand over that assignment. They say, ―We need some speakers for this event. Do what you need to

do to find them—maybe get a committee together or narrow it down for me to a few possible

candidates, and then I‘ll pick the final one.‖

The person who‘s doing the searching is generally not very experienced at finding a speaker. I think

that‘s very important for people to realize. I think that may help people to figure out how they‘re

going to market to themselves.

When you ask a professional meeting planner how they go about finding speakers, they‘re probably

going to tell you that they go to a speakers bureau to just be done with it. They call a speakers

bureau and say, ―I have a great big conference coming up, and the budget for a speaker is

$100,000,‖ or ―I need three or four speakers, and here‘s my budget. Get some people for me.‖ They

check that item off their list and they‘re done. It‘s done in the same way that they contact caterers or

lighting professionals. They just call the professionals and have it taken care of. They‘re not doing too

much screening.

The great majority of the people who are hiring speakers are going to Google, asking their friends,

posting things on their Web site, putting an announcement in their newsletter, talking to other

planners, or asking for volunteers from within the organization.

They certainly look online. I think that online searches are becoming the method of choice for most of

those people. What most of them are trying to find is a directory of speakers they can go through and

screen. They‘re looking for a site that has online screening tools to help them narrow down their

search. I think that there are definitely a lot of ways that they are looking, but probably the number

one way is to just go online and type in what it is they‘re looking for.

I: That brings up a question—do you need a Web site, press kit, one sheet demo, video, book, or

other material before you get started?

BC: Not really. You don‘t need one, but it certainly helps. The meeting

planners, or people who are looking for speakers, are comparing you to other

people, so you‘re going to need to have something to send them eventually.

Whether or not they are finding you that way is not really too important.

For example, they might have heard about you from somebody else who saw

you speak at an event, and there‘s a very good possibility that they‘ll hire you

because the person who recommended you is somebody they trust. There‘s a

good chance that the speaker they‘re calling is going to be a candidate, at

least.

The speaker needs to have something to send to that meeting planner. So at

a minimum I think that a speaker needs to have a Web site, or at least be

part of a Web site directory so that a meeting planner can find their material

and look through it. That is absolutely expected.

If a meeting planner is talking to a speaker on the phone, they‘re going to

ask, ―Where can I go to get more information about you? Where can I see

some samples of your work? Where can I read more about the programs you

offer?‖ I think it‘s absolutely critical that you have some kind of Web

presence.

As far as other material, I‘m a big, big fan of direct mail and having hard

copies of your material that are professional—things that show that you know

what you‘re doing and that you‘re in the business. I think that the celebrities

can get away with less, even though they tend to have a lot more.

If you‘re just getting started, or if you‘re a relatively unknown speaker—even if you‘re unknown to

-42-

Bryan Caplovitz continued . . .

“It‟s absolutely critical that you

have some kind of Web presence.

As far as other material . . .

have hard copies of your material

that are

professional—things that show

that you know what you‟re doing

and that you‟re in the business . . .

It‟s in your best interest to have a

professional set of materials.”

the new meeting planner who‘s looking at your information—I think that it is in your best interest to

have a professional set of materials to send to them.

I: Of all the speakers you work with, what are some of the wildest topics they cover?

BC: Most people are choosing speakers based on the title of their

speech. It‘s a lot like looking through a book store. If you‘re looking for

a book on organization, you‘re going to choose a book that has a title

that really captures your attention. That‘s very true of the way people

are hiring speakers.

What‘s really going to make a difference for a meeting planner, when

they‘re narrowing it down to a few speakers, is that topic that the

speaker is going to present. The title ―Never Show Up Naked to a Job

Interview‖ is something that adds a little bit of humor, has some interest,

and makes people want to read about it a little bit more. If a meeting

planner puts that in their newsletter or on a big poster announcing the

event, people want to know what that‘s about. If the topic is ―Better

Living Now,‖ that doesn‘t have quite the same kind of draw to it. It is

very important for a meeting planner to be drawn to the title of your

topic.

As far as wild topics that I‘ve seen, I don‘t know if they‘re so much ―wild,‖ but one of our speakers,

Robert Van de Castle, studies dreams, and he‘s branded as the King of the Dreamers because of his

recall for dreams that he recorded each night. I think that he wrote down every dream for years, and

so he talks about the dreams that he had, and it‘s an interesting topic. It‘s a little bit out there.

One of our most popular speakers for a long time was somebody who spoke in the persona of Teddy

Roosevelt, as if Teddy Roosevelt were alive today, responding as he would he respond to current

events and what‘s going on in the world right now. Ultimately people are looking for something that‘s

different.

I: What are some creative ways speakers can get compensated, especially if you don‘t have a track

record?

BC: There are a lot of ways that you can make money through speaking. Most speakers are not

making big bucks through speaking fees. Most speakers are making money on the back end, and the

back end could be books and tapes sold at the back of the room, their consulting service, or any

other kind of service they offer or business they promote—they‘re ultimately promoting themselves

as an expert.

Even if you are trying to build your business but you don‘t have a product, you might want to look at

videotaping services. For example, some of the really big conferences, and now even some of the

smaller conferences, have a professional videographer who is there to record the event. You can get

a copy of that recording and you have a very nice, professional quality clip that you can use for your

video demo, or that you can put up on your Web site.

Videotaping services are great, because if you went out to have that done on your own, it could be

thousands of dollars to have somebody make a video for you, especially if you‘re including the editing

services. Sound is really important, and you certainly need a professional to do that. It‘s very difficult

to be on stage in front of a room and get that to sound right without having a professional who has

miked you properly. That can be a pretty valuable service.

Corporate sponsorship is huge. That means you ask a corporation to sponsor your speaking for the

year or for a couple of years—I‘ve heard they‘re even doing three-year contracts. During that time

you speak about something related to their target audience, or directly to their target audience.

Office Depot, for example, sponsors a speaker who happens to be in front of a lot of small business

-43- (Continued next page.)

owners. You don‘t have to be speaking about office products, but you‘re reaching their audience, so

Office Depot may want to sponsor you, and by sponsoring you, they‘re able to get a message in front

of the audience in some way. They may have a slide up in your presentation, they may hand out free

giveaways, or have a drawing when you‘re up there speaking, but corporations can actually fund your

speech.

Trips are a big one. If you can get the meeting planner to pay for your travel, your hotel, and airfare,

that might be worth not even getting the speaking fee. We had a listing a few years ago for a big

corporation that was hosting an event for their top salespeople. They took the salespeople and their

guests to Tahiti. They offered elephant rides and snorkeling. The speaker and a guest received all of

those perks too, but there was no speaking fee. There are a lot of way that you can get compensated

for speaking.

I: How do local groups find terrific speakers, even if they don‘t have a large budget?

BC: They can look at ways to bring in a sponsor for the event. They can also offer the speakers some

of those things we were talking about; videotaping services or travel expenses are always good.

They can also potentially get money out of a training budget. The organization may not have money

in the budget for a speaker, but they might have money in their training budget, and the training

budget could be used to pay for the speaker‘s books, tapes, worksheets, workshops—anything like

that.

I: What kind of qualifications do meeting planners look for?

BC: They‘re looking for somebody who‘s fun, enthusiastic, and entertaining. They want somebody

who is going to make them look good. They often don‘t know what kind of speaker they want. They

may have a general idea—they may want a motivational speaker, or somebody to speak in the area

of sales—but they‘re often very willing to consider somebody else if the other speaker is somebody

who‘s going to entertain their audience.

They‘re probably going to look at the audio and video that the speaker has available. They will look at

testimonials to see what other people have to say about the speaker. If there‘s a client list that they

can look at to see what other organizations the speaker has been in front of, I think that that helps.

A lot of people say that fee range is really important, but fee range definitely does not mean quality.

So if there‘s a speaker out there worrying about where to put their fee range, that‘s a tough one.

Some people feel that if you have a really high speaking fee posted, and you‘re willing to work for

less, there may be something wrong with you. But if you‘re regularly a $5,000 speaker and you‘re

willing to come speak for $500, some meeting planners may think they‘re getting a great bargain,

A lot of it has to do with how the speaker is marketing themselves and marketing their fee. If, for

example, they tell the association that their regular speaking fee is $3,000, but because they‘re local

and because they believe in the organization—maybe it‘s an organization that serves kids—if they say

they have an affinity for that group and they‘d like to do something to help them out and they‘re

willing to speak for $500, that organization may feel they‘re getting a great deal.

I: Who are the best speakers out there today, and who are the worst?

BC: The most well known is probably Zig Zigler, and he is on the verge of retirement, if he hasn‘t

retired yet. He‘s definitely one of the ones that most people know of. I think a lot of it has to do with

personal preferences, personal taste. There is a young guy who‘s out there speaking now. He is

-44-

Bryan Caplovitz continued . . .

“There are phenomenal speakers who don‟t charge much, and terrible speakers

who charge a lot, and there‟s everything in between. There are definitely diamonds in the rough to be found. It‟s just a matter of finding the right one.”

relatively new, and he is one of my favorites. His name is Brendon Burchard. I‘m giving him a good

plug right now, I know, but he‘s phenomenal. Joe Malarkey markets himself as the world‘s worst

motivational speaker, or the worst motivational speaker in America, and he gets paid a lot to do that.

I think he gets $7,500 per speech. He is a very funny guy.

I think the one thing I want meeting planners to know, or anybody looking for a speaker to

understand, is that there are phenomenal speakers who don‘t charge much, and terrible speakers

who charge a lot, and there‘s everything in between. It‘s a lot like actors. You may see a phenomenal

actor in a high school performance who belongs on Broadway or in movies, and they could do great,

and then there are actors who make it into major motion pictures, and you wonder how they ever got

the job, because they‘re so bad. There are definitely diamonds in the rough to be found. It‘s just a

matter of finding the right one.

I: How many professional speakers are available for hire?

BC: The National Speakers Association has about four thousand members. On any one day in the

United States, there are about seven thousand opportunities for speakers, and the average NSA

speaker is speaking about two times per month. That means about eight thousand of those

opportunities every month are for NSA speakers, and that leaves another twenty-eight days of the

month for the other seven thousand a day to fill up. There‘s probably a lot more speakers than there

are opportunities.

I: What kind of events do people hire speakers for?

BC: In addition to corporate conferences and seminars, Boy Scouts are looking for leadership

speakers. People bring in speakers for holiday parties and award banquets. Events like that are pretty

popular for a keynote presenter, or even an MC, which often involves a short keynote speech for

associations or charity groups, church groups, youth groups, small sales teams, networking groups,

or Chambers of Commerce.

I‘ve seen jobs for fundraisers where people are looking to bring in a humorous or entertaining

speaker. Authors are really big for fundraisers because they are looking to loosen up the audience,

get everybody laughing, and get them to give money. Also book fairs, fraternities, and sororities are

often looking for speakers.

Schools are a huge source of opportunities for speakers. They‘re looking for speakers on topics like

drug abuse, teen suicide, community involvement, how to get a job, etc.

I: What can you do if you bomb with an audience? I think that‘s a lot of people‘s biggest fear.

BC: It‘s going to happen—just expect that it‘s going to happen eventually. Not every speaker is going

to be a winner, and that‘s just one of the elements that makes live shows so exciting and

entertaining. Generally, you have something to talk about, no matter how well you do. Use that

experience to grow from, to learn from, and hopefully it won't happen again.

Do whatever you can to make it up to the meeting planner. If you can, offer some type of a

guarantee—a money-back guarantee is always a nice gesture. Maybe offer to do some kind of

workshop for them. There‘s a lot of things to play with there, but hopefully if you‘ve done your

homework, researched the organization, and you‘re well rehearsed, it won't be a complete and total

disaster. It may be just one of those events that wasn‘t so great.

-45-

www.speakermatch.com

Kathleen

Bartle

Joyce

Odidison

Cinnie

Noble

is a professional certified

coach and founder of

Confidence Connections:

Discerning and

Compassionate Coaching.

She specializes in coactive

coaching abrasive people

and those they hurt.

Kathleen uses proprietary

models based on

sociological and

psychological research and

leadership best practices,

including boss whispering

and Kolbe mode operating

index to maximize learning

and growth for her clients.

She has been a

professional coach for over

twenty years, and in

private practice for over

ten years.

is a conflict analyst/

strategist, speaker, and

coach. She has spent more

than fifteen years doing

extensive work and

research in the field of

remedial coaching and

conflict management. She

is the president and CEO of

Interpersonal Wellness

Services Inc., and holds a

Bachelors degree in

Conflict Resolution, a

Masters degree in Conflict

Analysis Management, and

is a Personal Certified

Coach with ICF.

She is the creator of the

Interpersonal Wellness

System Coaching program,

her area of specialization,

and she is also a former

instructor of conflict

resolution at both the

University and college

levels.

is a lawyer, mediator, and

certified coach based in

Toronto, Canada. She is a

pioneer in the field of

conflict coaching, having

created a CINERGY®

model in 1999. Cinnie

and her associates have

trained thousands of

people worldwide in its

use. She chairs a conflict

coaching special interest

group for the

International Coach

Federation, The Conflict

Coaching Committee for

the Association for

Conflict Resolution, and

hosts a Conflict Coaching

Guild through LinkedIn.

Cinnie is the author of

four books, and is

currently writing a book

on conflict management

coaching. The motto of

Cinnie’s company is

Peacebuilding . . . One

Person at a Time.

-46-

I: Thank you all for joining us on our Conflict Panel. Let‘s start with you, Kathleen. What type of

conflict coaching do you do?

KB: The foundation of my conflict coaching is coactive coaching. My operating assumption is that my

clients, my abrasive or so-called ―bullying‖ clients, have the answers to their situation inside them.

My basic belief is that they are naturally creative, resourceful, and whole, and that together we create

a new environment for them. I use a five-step process that I have created to work with abrasive

clients, and through that process, they develop more emotional intelligence and we use coaching

models and sociological models to help them learn how to communicate, how to interact, and how to

manage their anxiety and their fears. That‘s my basic strategy.

I: Excellent. Thank you so much for sharing that. Cinnie, thank you so much for joining us. Would

you please share what type of conflict coaching you do?

CN: I handle interpersonal disputes. Mostly, the work that I do is in the workplace, although the

model that I have applies in other contexts as well.

There are really two parts to it. One part is dispute-specific, and that means that clients come as

individuals with a past dispute, one that‘s ongoing, or an anticipated one, and they are wanting to

specifically deal with that dispute. The other piece is centered around general competency, and that

refers more to people who come with not necessarily one specific dispute, but with general conflict

behaviors that aren‘t working for them. That kind of coaching deals with that person trying to shift

the way they manage conflict.

I use the CINERGY® model, which I have developed. It‘s a seven-stage model, and it really follows

some of the principles of the International Coach Federation in regards to taking people from where

they are to where they want to be. It takes clients through a self-analysis as they are developing

their goals and deciding on what to do. I developed that model in 1999 with a pilot group of people

who helped me experientially.

Agreeing with Kathleen, the whole concept of self-determination is really reflected in this type of

coaching, which is that people are indeed creative, resourceful, and whole.

I: I can see where being a lawyer and a mediator, you have a deep understanding of interpersonal

relationships, Cinnie. Joyce, thank you so much for talking with us. What type of conflict coaching do

you do?

JO: I do Interpersonal Wellness Systems coaching, which is a remedial model that blends conflict

management, transformational learning, sociology, and coaching perspective. What it does is provide

a focused coaching approach for working with high-conflict and resistant clients. These clients may be

either disengaged, difficult to get along with, or challenging in the workplace as well as in their

community group or other areas of work.

Interpersonal Wellness Systems coaching addresses the entire scope of a client‘s relational sphere.

We raise awareness of the cause of the conflict behavior by identifying where one may be stuck in a

negative conflict response style.

Similar to what Cinnie and Kathleen have both mentioned, by employing a systemic approach, the

negative conflict pattern is exposed, and we can then help clients to develop new patterns of

response styles through coaching. Of course, we help the client initially to find out what they want,

allowing them to improve what we call their Interpersonal Wellness Quotient (IWQ), which is the

ability to contribute to the wellness of their relationships. We all have capacity, but we‘re not all at

the same level. Sometimes, really good people are just not able to contribute at that point in their

life, and we help them acknowledge that. I see people in various stages of conflict, and help them

find out where they are and where they would like to be, and then work with them on a systemic way

to get there.

I: Joyce, how did you decide to choose conflict coaching as your area of specialty?

-47- (Continued next page.)

-48-

JO: I think, actually, conflict coaching chose me. I was a mediator,

who had been working with highly positional clients, and as a conflict

analyst, one of the things that I do predominantly is work to analyze

conflict situations. That‘s when I was inspired to develop the pre-

mediation coaching model.

During this time, many clients would come to mediation and found

that they were able to work out a settlement, or at the least were able

to come up with a solution for their particular conflict. The challenge

was that many faced recurring conflicts in different areas—maybe with

different people in their workplaces or in another situation, or at times

difficulty to sustain their mediated agreement—and that concerned me

in terms of how much more we need to do for our clients so that they

can sustain their resolution.

When I began working on the pre-mediation model in late 1999/early

2000, it was really an opportunity to help my clients gain better

results in mediation. It really is a conflict coaching approach that

helped them gain awareness of themselves in the conflict. I began engaging these clients in reflection

and helped them build skills, as well as gave them a platform so they could practice developing their

communication and negotiation skills for greater success in their mediation and beyond. What I found

was that this process was instrumental in helping my clients sustain their mediated agreements. This

was about twelve years ago, and I have continued working, researching, and writing in the area of

conflict coaching since that time, resulting in the Interpersonal Wellness System model and coaching

program.

I: Thank you, Joyce. Kathleen, how did you choose conflict coaching as your specialty, and especially

the area of conflict coaching that you chose?

KB: What Joyce just said reminds me of how long ago I started doing this work. I was doing my

graduate research in sexual harassment, and inside those issues, there is a tremendous amount of

conflict.

I didn‘t have a coaching model, I only had sociological research, and so I had to figure it out. I

started with negotiation. I didn‘t touch mediation. I always worked with one client at a time to see

how it was that I could help them move and communicate, and resolve their issues without having to

bring in administration or legal support.

Really, it came out of the work that I was doing as a political sociologist, and recognizing that these

were deeply interpersonal issues. They touched on people‘s fears, their dreams, and the destruction

of their dreams. I had a tremendous amount of empathy and compassion for what they were

experiencing, and the same time I had compassion for the alleged perpetrators, and that‘s what we

used to call them. I recognized that so many of the things they were struggling with were centered

around communication strategies and a tremendous amount of fear.

The dominating theory—at that time and now still—around bullying and abrasive behavior is that

these are intentional behaviors, and what I recognized is that a very small fraction of people who are

involved in these situations are doing it intentionally. I call that strategic bullying, strategic

aggression, where they know what they‘re doing—these are highly competitive people. As far as

everybody else, I would say 90% of what I see out there is unintentional, and that‘s how I came into

it, with that empathy and my sociological basis.

I: Very interesting. Cinnie, how did you choose this arena of conflict coaching?

CN: It‘s interesting that you referred earlier to me being a lawyer and a mediator, which I think

probably was the start of it, and Joyce and I probably have a similar path around the mediation. I had

Conflict Panel continued . . .

been a family mediator for many years, completed a Masters degree in Alternate Dispute Resolution,

and then shifted my practice into the workplace. Like Kathleen, I ran into sexual harassment and

other kinds of issues, and somehow it occurred to me that things happened too late.

Many people in organizations and otherwise are quite reactive to conflict, and it occurred to me that

often even going into a mediation, a lot had already happened. People had gone down a conflict path,

and I realized that perhaps, if people had better ways, knowledge, skills, and abilities to manage

conflict, they wouldn't even need to go into mediation.

I was looking at more of a proactive approach that would build conflict confidence. As I explored that

a little bit more, I heard about the field of executive coaching and took it up. I very quickly saw a lot

of synergies—excuse the pun—between the whole idea of coaching and conflict management, and I

started to also explore where neuroscience had some very important principles that applied. That‘s

what started me on the route to look at what‘s really needed here.

One of the more obvious things to me that happened as I started to look into it was that I saw that

the whole idea of effective conflict management is not a core competency in many organizations, and

so people in leadership positions don‘t have an ability to manage conflict. The starting point for me

was actually saying to myself, ―Isn't there a need here for a proactive way that customizes and

individualizes conflict management for people so they go to work on their particular ways of

managing conflict?‖

That‘s what started me in the field, and I thought the need was huge. What actually happens, and

happened then, but less so now, is that often people still do wait until they‘ve had a conflict, and then

they seek my services to see how they‘re going to manage it independently. There‘s a growing thrust

of people trying to nip it in the bud, and that‘s where I see a strong need that still exists.

I: Who are your clients, Cinnie?

CN: My clients are mostly leaders and managers in organizations, although I certainly coach coaches

who are trying to develop their own conflict competence, as well as mediators and other people who

are dealing with people who are in conflict and are fighting back; they‘re having challenges with that.

I do conflict management coaching in other contexts such as personnel issues and family issues, but I

would say most of my work is organizational and executive.

I: It‘s interesting that a minute ago you mentioned that people come when they‘re already in a

conflict, which you can see the conflict in the meeting right when the leader starts off—they need to

head it off at the beginning, have that strength at the beginning, to be able to see where the conflict

is coming, because there‘s a very clear line down from leadership, isn't

there?

CN: It‘s an interesting application too, because I‘ve found that often it‘s not

just due to another person that many people come, but it‘s delivering those

tough messages in a meeting or groups, and how people do that and how

they come across. Yes, you see people who are in leadership positions who

haven't anticipated how to deal with those things in advance, and then they

just shoot themselves in the foot on the way there.

I: Joyce, who are your clients?

JO: I think similarly to Cinnie, my clients are mostly corporations. I focus on

organizations that are looking for cost-effective alternatives to dismissing an

employee. Many organizations are recognizing how expensive it is to replace

an employee—upwards of $10,000. They want to find an opportunity for the

employee to do some remedial work, change their behavior, and improve

their interactions.

-49- (Continued next page.)

“My operating

assumption is that my clients have the

answers to their situation inside

them. My basic belief is that they

are naturally creative,

resourceful, and whole, and that

together we create a new environment

for them.” —Kathleen Bartle

-50-

What I‘ve also been noticing in my clientele is that many associations want to encourage behavior

change after a member is found guilty of harassment or some other breach. Sometimes we see racial

harassment—discrimination in various forms—fraud, or another type of breach. Prior to an

opportunity for remedial coaching, the associations would probably fire or suspend these individuals.

But we‘re now providing them an opportunity for correcting and transforming behaviors.

These members can actually have reflection as to where they‘ve been and where they want to go.

They can identify some of the contributing factors around them, as well as some of the structures and

processes that can be put in place to help them move forward.

I also do a lot of work with boards that are experiencing difficulties with their leaders and executives;

in not-for-profit organizations. The boards sometimes have executives who are not quite fitting in or

who are causing dissension. We have community groups—some of them are sports groups or clubs—

that are supposed to be doing competitive sports, but they‘re spending most of their time and energy

fighting with each other.

In the last three years, I‘ve noticed that I am doing more work with coaches who are looking for

specialized training to address these needs. I have developed the Interpersonal Wellness System

coach training program through which other coaches are learning strategies to help them provide

remedial work for existing clients.

I: I‘m hearing, Kathleen, that your area is a little different from Cinnie‘s and Joyce‘s. Who are your

clients?

KB: Yes. My area is a little bit different. My basic mind-set is that when you

have two people together, you have the potential for conflict, and you have

the potential for synergy—no pun intended.

I do work with couples and with family dynamic relationships, but my area

of strength and specialty comes out of my academic background. I work

with scientists, engineers, physicians, research professionals, and post-

doctoral candidates, because they are comfortable with my background in

academia and my administrative and research experience.

They‘re confident that I have a sense of the unique experiences that

they‘re having, and the tremendous competitiveness and pressure that

they face, and how they have to craft their responses because of the

pressure that they‘re under. They‘re in a field with only a few other

people—a few leaders—and if they alienate one of those leaders, they‘re

bound to be pushed out of the field entirely.

That‘s one area, and a growing area for me, is young professionals. I‘m happily getting more people

who are calling me early on in their careers. They have a tough boss, they have a difficult team, a

confusing situation, and they don't want to take action—which I‘m glad about. They don‘t want to

take formal action, they don't want to file complaints, and so they‘re starting to call to find out what‘s

going on to get an analysis of the situation and to figure out with me what their best strategies are

for handling a difficult person. How much power can they assert? What can they say? How can they

shift the team focus?

It‘s a delight to be able to work with young professionals, because you can see them trying to do

something early on, whereas I mentioned earlier, historically, people didn‘t do anything or ask

anybody anything until it was a dramatic situation and they were ready to file a formal complaint. We

all know that once you‘re at that place, you get a reaction from your administration and they‘re going

to want to blame you for being the troublemaker because you‘re complaining.

That‘s the core of my practice, as well as working with some coaches who want to understand more

about how to do this work and compliment or supplement their perspective on their relationships with

Conflict Panel continued . . .

their clients.

I: How did you see the need for the rise of this type of conflict coaching?

KB: It was very organic for me. It was really in academia, watching people struggle under terribly

pressure-filled, adverse situations, and it was a natural area for me. It wasn‘t a struggle to do this.

My empathy is high, my research background is high, and so I would go back and look to see how it‘s

been understood. In fact, I presented my thesis on workplace bullying and harassment at the

Seventh Annual Conference on Bullying and Harassment that took place overseas this year. I‘m not in

academia anymore, but I have a very keen sense of what‘s going on and a keen historical

perspective. It‘s just a natural place for me to be.

I: I see. Cinnie, how did you see the need rise for your type of conflict coaching?

CN: There really seemed to be a gap in services for people who wanted to improve and enhance their

conflict confidence. What I really noticed more than anything, as a mediator, and as I shifted into

doing conflict management coaching in an individualized way, is that people were so thirsty, so in

need of developing skills in order not only to deal with their staff members, for instance, as a leader

who was having challenges, but also for themselves and their own conflicts with their coworkers or

with their bosses.

The need seemed to be a gap that I noticed as someone who would go into organizations and help

them design conflict management systems or do a mediation or an assessment. Here was this huge

hole that I saw: how do people really start from the beginning? That goes back to what I referred to

earlier, that proactive approach, that if we could build stronger skills for people early on, what would

they be able to do about engaging in conflict?

The language in the conflict management field has shifted from management to engagement. Conflict

isn't such a bad thing— it could improve relationships, help people develop and express creative

ideas, help in their communications, and could be an opportunity more than a detriment.

I think the need that I saw was that people were afraid of it. They were avoiding conflict, and that

just created more issues, including a bad reputation for the organization because of the inability of

their staff to deal outside of the organization, much less inside it. The need to me was really

multifaceted, and I think it is a huge need that is ongoing, because conflict is so pervasive.

KB: Cinnie, I find your perspective fascinating, that you came out of the mediation mind-set. I have a

prejudice against mediation, because it seems to me that there is an assumption that there is a

practical issue that needs direction, that needs to be resolved, rather than an interpersonal conflict;

that it is partly about language, communication, judgment, and defensiveness, and that they‘ve

gotten into these niggly little places, and we‘re trying to mediate it. It sounds as if that‘s partly how

you moved a bit from mediation to conflict coaching. Correct me if I‘m wrong, and if I‘m right, tell me

how you saw that? What were the early things that you did?

CN: That‘s a great question, Kathleen. You know, there are lots of kinds of mediation. When I first

started, there was an interest-based model that was most prevalent, and that meant the mediator

tried to get people to look at not only what they wanted, but why they wanted it, and to go for what

they referred to as their ―interest.‖ It was very problem-solving, very issue-oriented.

What followed from that were various forms of mediation referred to by names like transformative,

narrative, insight, and solution-focused mediation. These types of mediation took from the concept of

-51- (Continued next page.)

“Conflict isn't such a bad thing— it could improve relationships, help people develop and express creative ideas, help in their communications, and

could be an opportunity more than a detriment.” —Cinnie Noble

-52-

bringing two people together, but looked at it as maybe there was something

more, maybe it‘s just not issues that people are looking at.

The other types of mediations that I referred to had very different orientations,

so that they might consider questions such as, ―How do you empower and

recognize one another? How do you build relationships? How do you move

forward, in a way that shifts the focus from a problem frame to one that

encourages new perspectives and ways of managing differences?‖

There‘s been a huge shift in the whole world of mediation, and workplaces and

other various types of forums have made the shift to making the forum suit the

needs of the people in dispute. In my own practice, initially I was trained in an

interest-based process, but I also started to move into other kinds of mediation

where it wasn‘t always issue-oriented.

However, the truth about mediation that I ended up realizing, and that changed my view from what I

was doing to work with people on a one-to-one basis, is that not everybody wants to go to mediation.

Although it‘s apparently a voluntary process, not everybody goes voluntarily. They feel they‘ve been

told to go or that they have to go. Some people don‘t like to sit across from the person that they are

in conflict with. There are some cultural reasons why people don't want to face the other person. I

think it‘s a wonderful process for people who agree to sit down with a facilitator who can help them

communicate and come to some resolution, if that‘s what they want, or to look at what they want to

do around their relationship or managing the conflict.

What I saw was a need to tap into the fact that some people would rather deal with things

independently. There may not be an issue per se; it may be about communicating. In fact, it‘s often

about what people need to learn when it comes to engaging more effectively in conflict. You can, in

fact, do conflict management coaching in tandem with mediation or other processes, or do it

independently. I actually do mostly the one-to-one now.

In the mediations I do now I use a lot of the coaching principles, so my mediations are a whole lot

different. Joyce‘s discussion about pre-mediation is a fabulous application of coaching to help people

prepare for that kind of a process.

KB: I see. That‘s fascinating. That‘s quite an arch of development from mediation. It‘s quite

responsive to the environment and the people involved, rather than trying to stay with a rigid model.

CN: I think the mediation field has been very responsive, in that different organizations and different

people will choose various methods now that weren‘t always open to us twenty years ago. Thanks for

asking about that.

I: Joyce, how did you see the need arise for your type of conflict coaching?

JO: I think, similarly to what Cinnie said, here we were in a field that was basically responsive. I

completed my Bachelors degree in Conflict Resolution, and also did undergraduate studies in

Sociology, so I‘m very familiar with these perspectives. When I entered the Masters degree in Conflict

Analysis and Management, it allowed me to not just look at the conflict and the issues, but to actually

go a little bit deeper as an analyst to look at what exactly this conflict is telling us. I realized that

conflict is a catalyst for change, and by understanding the cause for the conflict, we learn so much

more about the structure, the environment, interpersonal interactions, and perception—and all of

those are just wonderful opportunities for learning, for growing, for building new relationships, and

for expanding our awareness in the way we interact with others.

I encourage my clients to discover themselves and to share that with others—isn't that what we all

want to do? Here we were in an environment where our clients only called us when things are up in

the air. Sometimes I am an alternative to calling a lawyer or the police or firing someone. They

always tell me what they perceived as being wrong with the other person.

Conflict Panel continued . . .

What we‘ve done with the Interpersonal Wellness Systems coaching model is help clients understand

that no one is waking up in the morning and deciding, ―I‘m going to create havoc. I‘m going to be a

dysfunctional person.‖ Most times people get into those patterns quite unconsciously, unaware of the

gradual development and how this became part of their repertoire.

We engage the individual in asking, ―What is your capacity to give? Where are you at? What is your

Interpersonal Wellness Quotient? What are you thinking? Where are you in all of these dimensions of

your life? Let‘s look at your spiritual, social, emotional, occupational, intellectual, environmental,

financial, and physical dimensions—all of those contribute to what you have to give in your

interpersonal relationships and interpersonal realm.‖ That to me is the real reason for doing this kind

of work.

As coaching becomes more widely used and universally appreciated, I‘ve come to realize that there‘s

a segment of the population that‘s not being served. These individuals are labeled as challenges, as

resistant, or as uncoachable. Their needs are more complex and they require a more specialized

coaching approach. Those are the individuals we focus our attention on. Those are the people we

want to reach with the Interpersonal Wellness Systems Model and coaching concept, because they‘ve

come to it, and they are so in need of it. They‘re so hungry for a new approach, a new idea, a new

way of looking at themselves, and to not be blamed anymore—to have a dialogue and a conversation

rather than to be viewed as completely and totally irreparable.

I: Joyce, you mentioned that people don‘t wake up and decide to be that way that day, that it‘s

gradual. My first question is, is it because they‘re learning through different experiences that push

them in this direction?

And second, these difficult people who come to you willing, do they have to be in the open position to

say, ―Hey, I‘m willing to make that change,‖ because a lot of corporations send them to

communications class, a conflict resolution class, etc. Don‘t they have to be in a position where

they‘re open to learning?

JO: I‘m going to answer your last question first. Actually, what we‘re finding is that these individuals

who are coming to us are actually being sent. They‘re being told, ―This is your last resource.‖ The

training we provide, the way we work, and the model we use

means that we actually have to do a good job in order to make

this receptive for them. They don‘t want to be here. Our clients

sometimes come in crying—they‘re upset. They‘re blaming: It‘s

not their fault. They‘re not the ones who have caused the

problem. They‘re just reacting—that‘s what they‘re used to. That‘s

their comfort zone. That‘s what they know. These are learned

behaviors. These are things people do because it has worked for

them, or because it‘s a way of coping, or because that‘s the only

strategy they have.

When we look at our fingers, they‘re not all the same length.

When managers and directors ask, ―What‘s wrong with this

person? Why can't this person change? Why can't they just grow

up?‖ I often say, ―They are doing the best they know how. They

are using the skills they‘ve got. Now we have an opportunity to

engage them.‖ And that‘s what we do with our model. We see

these individuals as having potential for good, for learning skills,

for increasing their Interpersonal Wellness Quotient.

We focus on their capacity. We know we‘re not always at our best,

and that‘s one of the most realistic ways to look at it. That‘s when

we engage with them. We ask, ―What is your capacity to

contribute?‖

We have to engage them where they are; we can't expect them to

-53- (Continued next page.)

-54-

come to meet us, because they‘ve been told how dysfunctional they are by everyone else, and most

of the time they‘re isolated and they‘re not engaged. It requires a lot of strategy, and more work for

coaches—in terms of reaching these individuals where they are, engaging them, developing and

building a relationship with them, and walking along with them—but that‘s what takes them to

success.

Now they recognize, ―Nothing is wrong with me as a person. I can increase my capacity. I can grow.‖

We have clients who, when they come here for their first session, they‘re completely unhappy to be

here, and then they ask, ―Is it okay to come back? I know I didn‘t want to come, but . . . ‖

That‘s what we want to do; we want to reach these people who are thirsty for somebody to believe in

them. It‘s not about mediating every conflict situation that comes up or finding a solution—sometimes

we just need to help people to come to grips with where they are and build themselves up to be

something different.

I: That is an amazing gift, to help people overcome their defense mechanisms, because I know it

changes their entire lives. Could you give us an example of a situation where somebody brings a

problem to you?

JO: Clients bring situations that are difficult or extreme—things they‘ve had little success with. Most

of our clients from the corporate world have been through Employee Assistance Program (EAP), they

have been to therapy, and many have been to counseling. They fail at mediation. The conventional

strategies are not working for them. Some have had short bursts of success and then fall off the

wagon.

Coaching raises awareness. It helps you reengage with who you are, and

that‘s what we do with our Interpersonal Wellness System process. We help

individuals to reengage and to connect back with who they are, because

they have long lost that ability, because they‘ve been told how unhappy

everyone else is. They‘ve repeatedly been told, ―You‘re just causing conflict.

You‘re just causing problems.‖

We see individuals who are leaders who think that bullying is the new

leader strategy. We see situations where individuals are not getting along

with their employers. We have some very extreme situations where people

are getting completely sick and have to be taken out of work by

ambulance—they just pass out at work because of stress and conflict. We

not only help those individuals reengage and go back into the workplace,

but to go back from a different place. Conflict, as I said earlier, is a catalyst

for change. Most times, when conflict happens, it‘s an opportunity to look at

all the dimensions in your life. Too often, there is this response of, ―Let‘s

just fix the problem. Let‘s just get a solution.‖

What I say is, ―Let‘s look at it from a systemic perspective. Let‘s measure

where you are—assess your capacity. Let‘s celebrate the things that are

working well, the areas that you‘re doing excellent in, and let‘s identify the

areas that need to be strengthened.‖ That‘s what I do with my clients. Of

course, we may see areas you‘re not doing well in—that‘s okay. Let‘s set a

goal. Where would you like to be?

I occasionally have clients who have been suspended from work because they were perceived as a

threat—no one wanted to work with them, and there was fear and dissention. I have managers and

directors telling me, ―Nobody wants to work with this person. I don‘t know what to do. I‘m thinking of

firing them. I heard you might be able to help.‖

Four months later, that individual has improved remarkably at work, is being productive, and having

good, healthy relationships. They‘re even taking the initiative to write an apology letter to their

Conflict Panel continued . . .

“We have to

engage [clients] where they are, we

can't expect them to meet us

half-way . . . most of the time they‟re

isolated and they‟re disengaged. It

requires a lot of patience and

caring . . . in terms of reaching these

individuals where they are . . . but

that‟s what

accounts for their success.”

-Joyce Odidison

colleagues and saying, ―I lost myself for a bit. I‘m ready to reengage

and start working with you.‖ Those are just beautiful examples.

I: Kathleen, could you share some examples of the types of situations

that people bring to you for coaching?

KB: Absolutely. In one case, I received a call from the Executive

Director of a very large nonprofit organization, and they were buying

out another nonprofit, so they were merging companies. She wanted

me to build a team that was essentially merging the leaders from two

different corporations.

There was a huge amount of conflict and resentment going on. I

worked with the team members individually and as a group, managing

the conflict, and we started by looking for the places that were similar,

trying to build a foundation of trust. Then we taught them how to

handle conflict, and to have that conflict move toward a solution that

was in service of the key goals of the organization.

That required these disparate individuals to come together, to identify the key goals of the

organization, to create intimacy and personal connection with each other, and then to become

comfortable having conflict that was really in service of the organization.

It took about a year to transform this organization, but the results were phenomenal. Most of the

people on the team referred to themselves as ―conflict diverse,‖ which I find very interesting.

People are afraid of conflict, primarily because they don‘t know what to say, and so they end up

saying the wrong thing at the wrong time. They blurt it out. They‘re ruminating on it for days, and

then they say something, and everyone‘s offended. I teach the skills to remove that kind of behavior

or message from their language by talking about the issue instead of the person.

When an individual comes to me, I really start with an empathy gear. We do a mini-360. We get

information from other people on the team, and then I share that information with the person, and

they‘re usually defensive, crying, very upset, and my role is to convey the information, and also to

hear what they consider to be their side of the story and their explanations for their behavior.

It clears the emotional field. They‘ve had a chance to hear what other people think and they‘ve had a

chance to tell me what they think about it, and then, very gently I teach new skills and have them try

out those skills in the next meeting, and they have a very positive response very quickly.

They come back and they say, ―That worked—that worked! Tell me more about why that worked and

how that worked. What other skills and strategies do you have for me?‖

The turnaround comes very quick. A lot of change can happen in six or seven conversations; usually

90-minute conversations. There‘s a huge transformation that happens, and then the client gets to

decide if they want to continue with the training and the coaching, or try it on their own.

After finishing those sessions, I do another review with the employees. I ask, ―What‘s going on now?

Is it better? Has it changed? In what ways has it changed?‖ They‘re able to tell me the places where

it has changed or the places where it‘s falling short.

In that final conversation, we‘re able to tweak it, and then typically I‘ll get a call six or seven months

later, and they say, ―Maybe I need a tune-up,‖ or ―I want to tell you how well it‘s going,‖ or ―Here‘s

my latest success.‖ I can do short term work with individual clients, but teams take much longer.

I: I see. Cinnie, what kind of examples do you have from your situation?

CN: Most of the situations I work with are the everyday interpersonal disputes that happen in

workplaces.

-55- (Continued next page.)

-56-

On an anticipatory level, I often get managers who are about to deliver contentious performance

reviews or other challenging conversations when they expect pushback. At these times, they are

wanting help with how to conduct those conversations and make those announcements. I might have

coworkers who aren‘t getting along, and one of them comes who doesn't want to go to the boss or to

mediation.

There‘s a lot of conflict analysis in all of the work that we do. For instance, people who are saying,

―I‘m too accommodating. I‘m giving in all the time.‖ Or, people who are conflict adverse, who are

trying to engage more.

There are people who have destructive responses to conflict who want to regulate their emotions.

They are aware of how they impact other people they work with, either as a leader or otherwise.

Further, people anticipate conflict and they‘re trying to manage it, analyze it, and to look at the

behavioral causes of the relational and emotional aspects of who they are so that they engage, rather

than waiting for it blow up.

There are so many crucibles in the organizational field and even in families and communities where

conflict is also pervasive and clients want to be better at it.

From a systemic point of view, it‘s about assisting organizations in designing methods for helping

people to develop conflict competence to better manage their interpersonal disputes.

I: Thank you all so much for sharing from your expertise in this field.

Conflict Panel continued . . .

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