glaze, morris | testimony transcript

Transcript of the Testimony of Morris Glaze

Date: November 14, 2013Volume: I

Case: In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation

Printed On: November 27, 2013

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc.Phone: 417-358-4078

Fax: 417-451-1114Email:[email protected]

Internet:

Morris Glaze In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation

417-358-4078

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc.

Page 1

IN RE: JOPLIN CRITICAL INVESTIGATION

SWORN STATEMENT OF

MORRIS GLAZE

Taken on Thursday, November 14, 2013, from 3:01 p.m. to 3:24

p.m., at the law offices of Juddson H. McPherson, LLC, 626

S. Byers, in the City of Joplin, County of Jasper, State of

Missouri, before

SHARON K. ROGERS, C.C.R.650,

a Certified Court Reporter and a Notary Public within and

for the County of Jasper, and State of Missouri.


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APPEARANCES

MR. THOMAS E. LORAINE

Loraine & Associates, LLC

4075 Osage Beach Pkwy., Suite 300

Osage Beach, MO 65065

[email protected]


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S T I P U L A T I O N

IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED that this Sworn

Statement may be taken by steno-mask type recording by

SHARON K. ROGERS, a Certified Court Reporter, and

afterwards reduced into typewriting.

It is further stipulated that the signature of the

witness is hereby waived, and that said Sworn Statement of

said witness shall be of the same force and effect as

though said witness had read and signed Sworn Statement.


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I N D E X

Page/Line

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE . . . 5-4

E X H I B I T S

Exhibit #A. . . . . . . . 7-3

Advice of Rights

Exhibit #25 . . . . . . . 11-8

7/18/13 memo

Note: Exhibits in separate binder

(sic) - typed as spoken

(ph.) - phonetic


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1 MORRIS GLAZE

2 Having been first duly sworn and examined,

3 testified as follows:

4 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE:

5 Q. Mr. Glaze, I'm going to tell you, you're not

6 an employee of the City and I'm asked to talk

7 to unfortunately you guys as well as the

8 employees of the City. If you were an

9 employee of the City I would ask you to sign

10 one of these. For consistency everybody else

11 has agreed to do this. You don't have to,

12 but this is an Advice of Rights that the City

13 people are looking at, and since you're a

14 member you probably ought to see it any way.

15 So if you would read it over and if you feel

16 comfortable sign it, and we'll go from there.

17 I'll have to read it to you, also, because

18 it says I'm going to.

19 A. Okay, I understand it.

20 Q. What this basically is, the City can only

21 know what its employees know. The City as an

22 entity has no collective brain except for the

23 people that work for it, okay?

24 A. All right.

25 Q. So when we talk about City people we want


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1 them to tell us the truth, we want them to

2 tell us even if the truth gets them in

3 trouble with us on a hiring and firing basis,

4 or if they don't want to tell us the truth

5 then we can go back to you as a City Council

6 member and say, you know, this guy wouldn't

7 tell us anything and it's necessary for him

8 to talk and can you make him talk. And I can

9 make him talk if you give me that authority.

10 And if they don't talk then you fire them,

11 you know.

12 A. Sure.

13 Q. So it is a pretty serious way to get results.

14 However, if they say something when you're

15 talking to them that might be criminal in the

16 City we can't use that against them because

17 we're forcing them under penalty of their job

18 to tell us. And it's a method that's been

19 authorized by the Supreme Court of the United

20 States on municipal entities and the fire

21 districts and the water districts, everything

22 like that, and therefore we're trying to use

23 that so that's what it is and what it is,

24 okay?

25 A. Okay.


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1 Q. So if you would execute that for me I'd

2 appreciate it.

3 A. (Witness complies) (Exhibit #A)

4 Q. And I feel that since you guys have given me

5 the credibility to your investigation you

6 ought to all know what we're doing with the

7 City employees. Does that make sense?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Mr. Glaze, I can't tell you how much I

10 appreciate you coming in and meeting you.

11 There are three matters, and I know you know

12 that because you saw my contract, but I'm

13 going to point them out to you. There are

14 three matters under investigation plus any

15 collateral matters that do arise. The first

16 matter, and for brevity sake I don't know if

17 it's proper order or not, but the first

18 matter is did somebody steal something off of

19 City Manager Rohr's desk, and it's a note,

20 was that done and if so who did it. That was

21 one of the issues. The second issue was did

22 Mr. Scearce violate some City or ethical

23 duties when he either knew or should have

24 known about for better words a bookie

25 operation being run in one of his rental


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1 units. Adding collateral to that did his

2 subsequent statements or nonstatements, was

3 there anything unethical about them and when

4 I guess the City or the Joplin newspaper,

5 whoever wanted to know that information, was

6 that unethical. And the third matter, really

7 the big matter, three big matters, the third

8 big matter was did Mr. Woolston violate any

9 ethical considerations being a real estate

10 agent and allegedly mixing real estate

11 business with City business. Those are the

12 three main areas and the collateral areas

13 that come off of that. That's what I was

14 asked by contract to investigate. And I hope

15 that's what I'm doing. That's certainly what

16 I think I'm doing. So to that extent is

17 there anything about any of those matters

18 that we talked about or anything else that

19 needs to be discussed with you and me on a

20 one-on-one basis and do you have other people

21 that I should talk to that might have more

22 information than you yourself? For example,

23 you might know hearsay, but not know the

24 truth. You might know a rumor, but not know

25 whether it's valid. But I'm asking you who


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1 told you the rumor, should I talk with them,

2 and try to follow these lines back to the

3 sources so that we can hopefully get to the

4 bottom of what you want to know, all right?

5 A. Right. I've got a collateral situation I can

6 talk to you about.

7 Q. Okay. Let's talk about it.

8 A. I was approached by a citizen back in the

9 earlier part of this year, about May or

10 April, that they allege that Mr. Golden and

11 Mr. Scearce were representing the Elks Lodge

12 in the land purchase that Wallace-Bajjali was

13 doing for the senior care facility at 26th

14 and Maiden Lane.

15 Q. Golden and Scearce were representing --

16 A. The Elks Club who owned the property that

17 Wallace-Bajjali was wanting to buy for the

18 senior care facility. Now that's what

19 citizen told me, and that citizen's name is

20 Gary Box.

21 Q. G-A-R-Y Box. I've heard his name somewhere.

22 What does he do?

23 A. He is actually now a representative for

24 Wallace-Bajjali. But he told me that there's

25 another citizen that he would divulge if he


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1 was spoken to that would confirm this

2 allegation that Mr. Golden and Mr. Scearce

3 actually jacked the price up on the property

4 that Wallace-Bajjali bought from the Elks

5 Club.

6 Q. Golden and Scearce?

7 A. Yes, and I took this rumor to the City

8 Attorney. He interviewed both Councilmen.

9 They both denied it and that's as far as it

10 went. But this is a confidential

11 correspondence between the City Attorney and

12 myself that says privileged and confidential

13 on it. In that memo he uses Gary Box's name,

14 but he never interviewed Gary Box.

15 Q. The general counsel?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. May I see that?

18 A. Am I going to be in trouble?

19 Q. For showing me that?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. You're my boss. Are you going to make you

22 get you in trouble for showing you that? No.

23 A. There again it's privilege --

24 Q. By the City. Well, you authorized me to look

25 into these matters.


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1 A. There you go. I just want to make sure

2 everything is on the table here.

3 Q. It's on the table. Let's mark it. We'll

4 make it on the table. I guarantee you I plan

5 on getting to the bottom of this. Sir, I'm

6 handing you, and I haven't looked at it yet,

7 but I'm handing you what you've given me as

8 Exhibit #25 and I'm going to for the record

9 ask you is this the document that you just

10 handed me that was a privileged communication

11 between the City Attorney Brian Head and

12 yourself due to the investigation you just

13 talked to me about?

14 A. Yes, and I believe there was distribution on

15 it to the Mayor, also.

16 Q. And no one else?

17 A. Not that I know of.

18 Q. So the City Manager or nobody else would be

19 involved?

20 A. No, sir.

21 Q. May I read this, sir?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Thank you. Am I to understand from this, Mr.

24 Glaze, that the two members in question, Mr.

25 Scearce and Mr. Golden, were in fact, members


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1 of this lodge?

2 A. Yes, they are.

3 Q. For example, is Mr. Wallace also a member of

4 the lodge?

5 A. Not that I know of.

6 Q. Are you a member of the lodge?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Are any of the other Council members members

9 of this lodge, if you know?

10 A. I don't know.

11 Q. Is the City Attorney a member of the lodge?

12 A. I don't know that. I don't think so. Mr.

13 Box is a member of the Elks.

14 Q. Okay. Mr. Box is a member of the Elks and

15 they didn't want to deal with Mr. Box they're

16 saying?

17 A. That's what Mr. Scearce says.

18 Q. Did Mr. Box indicate that he never heard that

19 he wasn't to deal with anybody at the lodge?

20 A. I don't know, we never discussed that.

21 Q. So I need to talk to Box?

22 A. Yes, and Mr. Box would give up another

23 witness.

24 Q. How do I get hold of Mr. Box?

25 A. I've got his cell number. Do you want it?


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1 Q. That would work if you'd give it to me.

2 A. Sure.

3 Q. I tell you what, give it to me and then do me

4 one favor, and call him and introduce who I

5 am, I'll give you one of my cards, and just

6 say I'll be calling him, if you would do

7 that.

8 A. Sure.

9 Q. Because otherwise he's not going to talk

10 because nobody will.

11 A. Do you want his number now?

12 Q. Yes, give me that number.

13 A. It's 417-434-3351, and his work number is

14 417-208-5096.

15 Q. That's Mr. Box?

16 A. Yes, did you want me to call him now?

17 Q. You don't have to. When you get out of here.

18 Just mention my name and that I'll be

19 probably chatting with him, and maybe not

20 today but some time in the next couple of

21 weeks. I probably will try to get him today,

22 if I can.

23 A. Sure.

24 Q. Just let him know who I am and that it's

25 okay, you would like me to talk to him, so


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1 maybe that will ease him, okay?

2 A. Yeah, we've already pretalked about this.

3 Q. Good. I appreciate that. I appreciate that.

4 Now is there anything else we should talk

5 about concerning those three items or any

6 collateral manner? The reason I always say

7 collateral matter is because this would have

8 not been picked up --

9 A. Yeah, you know, the only thing about

10 Scearce's gambling is all the rumors I heard

11 when I was running for office in 2012.

12 Q. And what were those that I need to know

13 about?

14 A. I don't even remember who told me, but they

15 just said, you know, there's an FBI probe on

16 Scearce on gambling, and that's all I know.

17 And people told me that I should bring that

18 out to the public and I said, well, I don't

19 know anything that's true here. I'm not

20 going to use that in a campaign, you know.

21 Q. That's a good way to get sued.

22 A. Sure.

23 Q. Public figures, you guys as public figures,

24 and I've done a lot of work in this, as

25 public figures people can say pretty much


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1 whatever they want to say about you according

2 to the New York Times case, but if they know

3 that it's not true and then they say it

4 that's called actual malice and that's when

5 you get in trouble.

6 A. Sure.

7 Q. If they don't know anything about it they

8 shouldn't say anything either.

9 A. That's my position.

10 Q. And I think you followed a good position and

11 I'd be careful with that issue.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Just as a tidbit.

14 A. I mean there was five of us running for three

15 seats. I won, Bill won.

16 Q. It's not as if that issue is not before the

17 public anyway at this point, the newspaper

18 has done a pretty good job of that. I've

19 read it. Anything else?

20 A. You mentioned about Mr. Woolston, you know,

21 I'm friends with Mr. Woolston since I've been

22 on the Council and he --

23 Q. Are you social friends with him?

24 A. No, I mean we drink coffee occasionally and

25 we've played golf before, but we're business


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1 friends. But I said to him, I said, you've

2 abstained a lot on these real estate

3 transactions. Are you okay with that? He

4 said he was. I wasn't counseling him or

5 anything, I just wanted to make sure that

6 everything was on top of the table about all

7 these real estate transactions he's involved

8 in.

9 Q. I also have talked to him about that so we'll

10 see.

11 A. Because there's a perception. I think this

12 would be hard for him to overcome in the

13 community.

14 Q. I understand what you're saying. I tell you

15 it's so hard to be - if I was a lawyer on the

16 board, you know, and I was doing something

17 with the City from a legal standpoint either

18 pro or against you all of a sudden you're

19 heading your head, you know, and when does it

20 quit? When does it feel good? When you

21 stop.

22 A. Sure.

23 Q. So I know what you're saying. I'm trying to

24 figure out on the Scearce rumors --

25 A. They came from everywhere, and I don't


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1 remember any particular person. I mean they

2 were so rampant.

3 Q. I guess political people being political

4 people that get voted for I suspect these

5 will reflect in both of these guy's

6 elections, or already have.

7 A. Well, you know, Bill got through the election

8 okay. He got the majority vote.

9 Q. With this stuff?

10 A. Yeah, but it wasn't made public. I mean it

11 was just a rumor mill going around. I'd

12 think he'd have a tough time now running. I

13 think Mr. Woolston is going to have a tough

14 time in April.

15 Q. Who is Mr. Wilson?

16 A. Mr. Woolston.

17 Q. Oh, Woolston.

18 A. I think he's going to have a tough time, and

19 Scearce, I don't think he's going to run

20 again. He matures out 2016 as well as I.

21 I'm not going to run again.

22 Q. Not having enough fun?

23 A. Well, that will give me ten years and I'll be

24 65 and it should be younger people. I should

25 open my seat up to younger people is my


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1 opinion.

2 Q. Well, we old guys still have a little bit of

3 life in us.

4 A. We have a little bit of life in us, but I

5 want to do some other things, too. There's

6 plenty of volunteer work.

7 Q. There is that. Anything else that you think

8 I should know?

9 A. No, off the top of my head --

10 Q. The catch all question is there anything else

11 I should know? You know what I'm

12 investigating and you know why I'm

13 investigating it, and I think if there's

14 something else, I mean this perception that

15 you gave me, I had not heard about that.

16 This is the first time I've seen this so I

17 appreciate this. To me this is interesting.

18 I mean if the FBI thing were real and if it

19 was real and if it was indicted then it would

20 be interesting, but it's less interesting,

21 you know, the secret memo deal, I've already

22 disposed of that.

23 A. Oh, have you?

24 Q. Yes, it's not there. It's not there.

25 A. Last time Bill told me it was found and he


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1 said that it will come out who found it, and

2 I said, Bill, somebody is going to get fired

3 over this or somebody is going to be totally

4 upset like Mr. Rohr.

5 Q. Yeah, Mark was pretty adamant about it. I

6 did talk with him about it, also. It's not

7 been stolen. I'm telling you that so that

8 you know. Please don't discuss what we talk

9 about today with anybody until I get my

10 report out.

11 A. Sure. But in business that's your desk.

12 It's not mine. And what's on it is not mine.

13 Q. No, and nobody should have access to it.

14 A. Mr. Rohr told Mr. Seibert in a briefing that

15 somebody had taken it off his desk.

16 Q. He also told me that and yet he couldn't tell

17 me why that was. But I know where it came

18 from so I will be reporting that to you. Do

19 you want to see the note, the famous note?

20 A. Yeah.

21 (Short break taken 3:20 to 3:24 p.m., back on

22 record)

23 Q. (By Mr. Loraine) Thanks for coming in and

24 talking to me. I'm pleased to help you and

25 your city and I hope that my investigation


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1 will be complete enough to do that.

2 A. Thank you very much.

3

4 (SWORN STATEMENT CONCLUDED)

5


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REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

STATE OF MISSOURI

ss:

COUNTY OF JASPER

I, SHARON K. ROGERS, Certified Court Reporter in the

State of Missouri, do certify that pursuant to the

foregoing Stipulation the witness came before me on the

14th day of November, 2013, was duly sworn by me, and was

examined. That examination was then taken by me by

steno-mask recording and afterwards transcribed; said Sworn

Statement is subscribed by the witness as hereinbefore set

out on the day in that behalf aforesaid and is herewith

returned.

I further certify that I am not counsel, attorney, or

relative of either party, or clerk, or stenographer of

either party or of the attorney of either party, or

otherwise interested in the event of this suit.

_________________________

SHARON K. ROGERS, CCR-650

glaze, morris | testimony transcript

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