Transcript from a forum posted on .how-to-draw-and-paint.com called Flemish andItalian Renaissance technique discussionas started on november 27th 2010 byDamaclese

Please note that the following is a direct transcript from the forum FlemishTechnique. They are pasted here as they appeared on the post. Very few grammarcorrections have been made, only those which help in text comprehension.

I have always been mesmorized by the glow and light in the dutch masters particulalyand would love to try my hand at painting this waywell

…to get that glow I assume you are talking about the light that looks like its coming fromwithin the painting it’s caused by an optical layering afect that happens when lightpenatrates the Surface of the painting then is refracted and subsaquently bounced in andout repetidetly through out the layers of paint this isnt that hard to do in flemish tech ifyou understand this layering and how to keep your colors clean

I have some thoughts on how this is acheaved and not every ones going to agree with meon this but i think its caused by separating each layer with a layer of linseed oil and agenarous top coat of at least three layers of linseed at the end of the painting each layer oflinseed provides a cristal clear layer alowing light to not only penatrate but to be bouncedaround inside of the painting making it look like its glowing from within

From what I've read, there is little or no evidence (as shown through chemical analysis ofold paintings) that the Masters used clear oil layers between painted layers. The "glow"was possibly created by painting many thin, transparent layers over an opaque neutral(usually a grey shade) backgound...the "dead layer" which will be talked abouteventually. Light goes through the transparent colors, hits the opaque background andbounces back to our eyes, so that what we see is basically like looking at an objectthrough colored glass. But I do believe they had a "secret" which we haven't discoveredyet.

…have heard about the 'dead' layer, the monochromic tonal layer the painting is first putdown in isnt it? But I hadnt heard of either the theory about the layers of linseed oil (it

would have taken a looooooooong time to dry between layers wouldnt it?) or the opaquelayers of paint

yes i agree with you the layers of clear i use are just something i figured out on my ownsorry if i gave the impression that that was a historical fact its not i was just painting oneday and was at the end of a painting and i did not have any picture varnish so i used thelinseed mixed with liquen during the summers here whith the ac runing it takes a monthor more for linseed to dry so i wanted to accelarate the drying any way long story short iwas impresed with the depth that it created and set out on an odicy to see what i could dowith that dicovery that when i started uesing it inbetwen layers and low and behold itcreated this depth and light quality that was vary remanisent or rembrants work but without good clean colors dosint mater how many layers you paint it wont glow

this is a repost and of course im sure some will disogree with this analisis but the point isto give a starting point and this is based of the few cemical and MRI analassises ofNorthern and well as Italin Paintings that have taken placeHere’s one possible reconstruction of the painting sequence:

1.Make a detailed drawing on paper and transfer it to a gessoed panel. Reinforce andelaborate the drawing with ink or dark paint. Northern European artists usually made verydetailed underdrawings.

2.The initial layer of paint, called the primuersel, is used to define the dark areas of thepainting. The primuersel color is made by mixing black with earth tones such as red oryellow ochre; it is therefore similar to the verdaccio used for flesh tones in the traditionalItalian egg tempera method (but without a green earth underpainting and not just in fleshtones). This layer was probably often done in egg tempera or tempera grassa. Either way,this layer should be used to define form, edges, shadows, and other darks throughout thepainting.

3.Now apply the basic colors to each area of the painting, starting to work up modeling offorms with opaque colors but avoiding fine detail. This stage is called “dead coloring.”As with primuersel, some artists used egg tempera or tempera grassa for this layer. Fleshtones can be begun with mixed tones using appropriate brown or pink mixtures of white,vermillion, and earth colors. In light areas, keep the paint as thin as you can; you want thewhite of the gesso to show through. X-ray scans show that lead white was often used onlyto emphasize the brightest highlights of flesh tones, with a very thin toning of the gessoused for most light areas of flesh. This approach keeps light areas bright and avoids lateryellowing by minimizing the amount of oil. In shadow areas, don’t worry so much aboutpaint thickness, but keep the surface of the paint smooth. In areas that will later beglazed, keep light areas lighter than the intended final effect, since glazes will darkenwhat they cover. When you have taken this stage as far as you can, let the paint dry onceagain.

4.If you began the painting in egg tempera or tempera grassa, you will switch to pure oil

paint no later than when dead coloring is completed. Use paints ground in linseed oil.When switching from tempera to oil paint, you may choose to apply a very thin layer ofoil to prevent excessive absorption by the tempera underlayers. From now on, you will leteach layer dry thoroughly before further painting. If the layers are thin, this will take upto several days each time, depending on the pigments you use and whether the paint con-tains siccatives. It may be helpful to wet sand in between layers as needed to maintain asurface that is thin and smooth.

5.You will now work each area of the painting toward the intended final finish. Wheredesired, you can either thin the paint slightly with medium (oil mixed with a varnish orbalsam) or put a very thin layer of medium onto the surface and paint onto that. Applyfine detail to light areas. Areas of dark or bright colors, especially those around the mainareas of interest, can be glazed. So, for example, a red robe, after a primuersel of blackmixed with red ochre and then initial opaque modeling with vermillion and white, couldthen be glazed with a transparent red lake, using fingers, a rag, or a soft brush to make theglaze very thin over the lights and thicker over the darks. A little ultramarine or indigocould be glazed in to neutralize and reinforce the darker shadows. Multiple glazes can beapplied (allow the paint to dry and wet sand in between layers) until a clear sense ofthree-dimensional depth has been achieved, generally with inky darks, intense midtones,and bright lights. This process can be very time consuming, especially if you are notusing siccatives, but it produces a striking effect that is immediately noticeable whencomparing Flemish oil paintings to other work of the period.

6.The final stages would be used primarily for detail work and to apply thin scumbles ofopaque color mixed with white where needed over lighter areas of glazed color. Again,sand between coats. It is possible that some fine details were applied with egg tempera,worked into wet oil paint. This development of detail would continue until a very highdegree of finish was obtained.

…this guy leaves the gray layer or the Dead layer out conpleatly but thats ok we can do itany way thers no hard and fast rules on how you go about doing this so if you want to dothe gray layer do it if not drive right in to the colors its your alls call

…egg tempra is egg yoke with pigments added to it it was what the uesd befor they hadoil paints i dont ues it and most modurn artist dont but there are a few out there you donthave to falow that step

…you alwas paint fat ofer lean in oils so the amout of medeam you will ues increses witheach layer so that by the time you get to the color layer it sould be vary thin and inkyconsisinces so how much you start with is your chouse

…i think the wet sanding is a vary anal retentive step ad you can forget that just try topaint smothly if you can no globs of paint untill you get to the last layers then you can dowhat is caled Inposto were the white final tuches are mad thikly to add a dimetion butforget the sanding unless you just have to do it and its invalvs the ues of wet sandingpaper you get from a hard ware store you dip it in water and sand the serface slitly to get

rid of the high spots and i do mean just a few pases you dont want to sand threw thelayers of paint just knock them back a bit

…siccatives are drying agents like Liquen ther are many just ues Liquen its modern andsafe for oils its mad by winser and newton

…scumbaling is when you take a filbert or round brush and ues it on its side back andforth in a scumbaling mostion that side to side not pushing and puling dose that makesens

o i forgot balsam is a type of wax that comes form balsam plants the commin name forthis plant is Stocks they are vary pretty flowers i grow them in the garden for there sentvary powerfully sented if you want to ues waxes in your paints go to your local qualityart store and ask them they will know what you can get by the way your art matiral dealercan help you alot with the right stuff they have most stuff or can recomend were to get it idont start off with on line ordering your not exspireanced enough to get the right stuff onyour own unless you get help and i havint found the on line stuff any cheeper ones youpay shiping and the help you get at your local art store is worth the 10 or 20cents you aregoing to pay to get the stuff in the first place dont you all think

the picture you start with is up to you and your skill as well as tanasity at tacaling projectsi my self some times find pictures i think i my not have the skill to paint but i often savethouse for later i never discard an insparation and i dont recomend you do ether so as forsubjects paint somthing you are totaly in love with thats importent i think becaus you willbe working with this painting for an exstended amount of time perticulerly on your firstas you may feel like you are stugaling a bit and if your not totaly in love with it you mitebe tempted to give up but dont let my warning scair you ones you really understand thebasicks of this technique its aculy easer to paint then a convetional singal layer paintingas iv said befor each layer builds on the last so that byt the time you get to colors thepating is almost conpleat coloring is the last step more or less and its the lest importentfrom my point of vew as the value studdy you did in gray will be first and formost inyour mind and will practicly tell you what to do nexst its an amzing way to paint its soeasy but it looks so hard and the results are so stuning that one thinks this pating musthave takes a year to paint when it dint my first one Old Town Quebec took 5 months butit was my first and city scapes are difacult becaus of the presion painting technique that isrequerd your fist may not take that long alsow i paint in vary larg scale that perticulerpainting was 30" x 40" thats pretty big for a flemish painting most of the masters did varysmale works but matireals were scars and hard to come by or vary costly in conparisonso just pick somthing really good and love it and nerture it and make it your own nomater how it turns out thers somthing vary special about your first flemish Painting andyou are probly going to want to keep it for your self so again make it a good one

This is the way to go! And with a few new and modern materials, (Liquin and acrylicgesso) we can speed up the process. I agree with Mad, there are things we just don'tknow, especially with some of the mediums. I think the oil paint (the grinding of bugs etcwith an oil) were well documented in creating the colors. Most artist's of the era left some

journals that explained their process. But I also think there was a mentality to protectyour money maker, and that, I believe, was in the mediums used. either mixed with thepaint, and in between layers. I have seen works that had lines of white paint so thin,thinner than a human hair, having been applied to the canvas on a dark background, andthe paint simply glowed! It appeared to have the actual texture of the weave of fabric itwas depicting, or the fine silk of a carpet across the table top. I have yet to this day seenthese things duplicated by modern artists. anywhere.

thanks for that trick technique Mad Cap.! its really intresting you bring that up as i wasthinking of uesing somthing like that in the tool of my Ballarinas toto out on the endswere thers just a singal layer of fabrick aganest that dark back ground i was going to dotinny imposto lines to represent the net like quality of the tool fabric now i know thatswhat i sould do then wipe some of the back ground color in to it to make its net likequalitys show up better

…I might mention that I found a tool at a hardware store that is a metal blade - 24 incheswide - perfectly smooth that I plan on trying out. My canvases that I just ordered are linen- 18"x24" - and my thinking is to quickly apply the gesso and modeling paste (50/50),and then with one swipe take off the excess for a totally smooth and flat canvas. Thisshould eliminate the need to sand off ridges created by applying the mixture with smalltools. I will let you know if this is successful

… thats a great idea just make sure your canvas is drum tight befor you start im sure theothers will back me up on this i have noted that when you put the geso on the canvas cansome times sagg a bit when its wet so its not perfictly smoth when you put the blade ofyour tool across edg to edg you can see it dips down in the center this subject of gesoingis in my opinon a conplexs one it looks all easy but it defantly takes practis to get aperfict cerface this is one of those time its really good to obsess a bit on perfection as itonly makes painting better in the long run personly iv given up on acrilic geso i resintlyread a actical that stated they think its only stabal for about 40 years then it starts to crackso iv gon to uesing hide glue and gipsum you can get both of thouse at Home depo makesure your gipsum is pure and dose not have any polimer addativs they like to add that forfelxsability maybe it wont hurt but its better if your going to go to all tha trubal that youget pure stuff alsow the hide glue mixster is way easer to smoth as it dosint dry at thespeed of light like acrilics do hope that helps i resintly found a preprpard canvas that isultra smooth and its fairly cheep the brand name is MASTERPIECE and the line isCEZANNE how ever they are cotton they are intierly hand built and streched vary tightamzing heres ther link masterpiecearts.com

1) Is it important that the drawing i put on the canvas has to be fine detailed with allthe lights and the darks? Can I do that as I move ahead with the different layers?I am asking this because I just make a rough sketch on the canvas not a fiinedetailed. The detailing happens with the paint as i proceed with the painting.

2) I am starting of with a ver small size A4.

3) In case i can start with the rough sketch, does that also has to be marked by inkfirst??

… I would like to get cleared up on this. I spent a lot of time on Delmus's site in the freereading, and I never could exactly understand about the transfer AND THEN THE INK. Isaw a pic showing the ink (?) but he did not really discuss it. So my question isthis..........(I have graphite paper (dark and white))........after I transfer my DETAILEDdrawing to the canvas, then do I TRACE THE DRAWING WITH THE INK? /// (2) Hasanyone ever just used the projector (I bought one) to shine right on the prepared canvasand did the drawing with graphite pencil right on the canvas? Can I create problemstrying to do this? Is there something better to use than a graphite pencil on the canas?(3)

the point is to just get your drawing on the canvas any way you want to i do all sorts ofmethouds for exsample the work im doing now is 46" by 46" thats vary larg the chansesof geting out of perspective is much grater so i drew my work out on a vary smale 6" by6" pice of paper then i uesd a projector to put it on to the canvas iv alsow ues grafitetranserfer paper and the grid methoud so its not that inportent and then you trace over itwith the ink then take an eraser i ues the kind for erasing charcoal pencel as they removegrafite vary cleanly thnd dont levea any oils thats the erasers that are black you get themat any art store i dont like to ues Kneded as they leave oils behind

you can do any leveal of detail you want to the masters did vary detaild work and i reallythink thats best as the point is to know exsactly were you are going but alsow the largeryour work the more inportent i think it is but a basick drawing is ok too thers vary fewrules that you must falow we are trying to present a genral gide lighe thers lots of roomfor deveation and exsparamintation if it dosint work out you wont do that again right

Another advantage of inking over your tracing, whether its carbon paper pencil, etc. whenyou apply the 1st layer of paint (the primuersel, which used pigment with a mixture oflinseed oil and turpentine. You guys will learn that later) the ink remains while all theother crud "disappears". You are left with basically a clean canvas with a clear outline tobegin painting. NO ERASING,

,,, I suppose this technique might work on certain textures of hair. For example, Iwouldn't try it on my young blond girl since her straight, rather thin hair doesnt reallyallow or need much depth. That can/was achieved by a few thin dark glazes andhighlighting. Now if I was doing a portrait of Jimi Hendrix during his early bad hairperiod, I think this would be great!

the drawing can indeed be as detailed as you like. If using the projector, skip the penciland go directly to ink if you can. Until I found a felt tip that had permenant india inkwatersoluable, I used the pencil for fear of knocking over the ink well in the dark. I didthis once, and they don't call it permanent ink for nothing! I looked like I had a really badabstract tattoo on my leg for weeks!

Shadows can be traced or drawn at their most prominent transition point. a place whereyou feel comfortable to remember once painting begins. I then hatch mark a few lineswithin the shadowed area to remind me this is a shadow or darker area. The ink drawingcan be a very complete image suitable for framing, and like any great painting, it willbegin here as a strong underlying structure to be followed with each layer. Even in partsof your final layers, you will be able to see some of your underlying drawing.hat link is dead heres the finished umber layer linkhttp://community.how-to-draw-and-paint.com/photo/ballarina-umber-la...

i think we all coverd it pretty well but i wanted to aferm what Delmus said about thedrawing faze and i have coverd this in some of my painting blogs too you cant make agreat painting from a bad drawing i was mostly refering to perspective in the first casebut i think what Delmus said is true a really good drawing is the foundation of any greatpainting and no mater how great you are its vary easy to forget things as you go along thedrwing has a two fould perps not only is it a pointer taking you in the reight direction butit helps familuerise you with the subject mater in a vary intamit way iv found that as idraw perticulerly complicated detaild works that my understanding of the subject matergrows exsponetaly it seems so i dont want to harp on the drawing thing as it were but i dorecomend that you stope take a big look at your subject mater and give it the attsion itdeservs i think it comes down to what is your leveal of comitment are you going to do itright from the vary fist thought fowerd or are you just in a hery to get your patingfinished no mater what the out come i think a comitment to falowing the steps in asdetaild and exsacting way as you can will lead the advrige persone to new leveals of selfexspretion and ya Greatness! ok thats me the states man radaling on like i aculy knowwhat im talking about but im vary pasionat about geting thengs off to a great start its howiv advansed so quicky in just a year after all befor feb of 2010 i had never painted an oilin my entier life and im not braging i know thers problims in all my patings more or lessbut i think there pretty good considering all this so take it from me do a Good drawingI bought your Eboook and followed the instructions to a T and turned out a few goodpractice rounds. One problem I now have with a portrait of my daughter I made using thistechnique is that 2 of my ink lines still show in parts of the face that should be finished.Any suggestions on how to make them go away. I would post a picture but since I like tophotograph my paintings outside and today it's been raining all day well.... maybetomorrow

… If the line is in an area that needs to be covered at this point, you may have to backtrack just a bit. For me, the dead layer takes care of most any line that is visible within awell lite area, as apposed to a dark shadow area. The opacity of titanium white in my graymixture gives me good coverage. I've tried other whites, and each has there strengths andweakness's, but the titanium will cover anything underneath it. Hopefully you are not atthe color layers, but if you are, adding the white, then coming back in with the colorcould be a solution.

Any other folks have ideas? This is always a tough problem in going back to redo aportion.

I would like to know if I am using a primed masonite and it is very smooth, does thateliminate using modeling paste and gesso.

I really dont understand about masonite. LIKE, I go to the lumber company and say Iwant "MASONITE". Is there different kinds - primed or not primed??? How many coatsof gesso do I need to apply before I can make this an ACCEPTABLE painting surface? Ijust ordered (regualr price) $175 for 3 18x24 inch linen canvas-gallery wrapped. I gotthem on sale for much less but still pricy! Would masonite be AS ACCEPTABLE aslinen? If so, and it is much cheaper I will be interested. RoMasonite is a hardboard that has many uses. At lumber supply houses or places likeHome Depot you can buy 1/8 th or 1/4 by 8 foot pieces. They will cut it in whatever sizesyou wish. Then you use like Gesso to prime it. Usually about 3 coats. However you canpurchase already primed Masonite boards at an art supply. I do both. After painting theyare easily framed.

no no modaling past thats just to fill the texstur of the weav of canvas sins you at homedepo getting your masonite you could pick up some hide gue and gypsom and make realgeso which is far supier to acrilic geso and last for 4 to 5 hundrad years and is easer towork with and sand smoth if your uesing that you only need to prim with strate hide glueHi everyone, I have a book, The Artist's Handbook of Materials and Techniques, 1982Edition by Ralph Mayer (big and thick). It mentioned (page 159) under RepellentSurfaces: ...to rub gently between coats to apply a tooth using a mild abrasive (finelypowdered pumice, bread, a rubber eraser, or Artgum:---care to not remove more paintthan intended. /// Then it mentioned -- Freshly dried surfaces that have become SOILEDBY HANDLING are best cleaned with balls of SOFT BREAD. /// NOW THEQUESTION - Have you noticed any issues with the paintings getting "dirty" from justbeing touched with your hands when painting so as to cause a problem from the oils onyour hands keeping the paint from sticking? When I draw with graphite I wear thinplastic gloves with the fingers cut out so the palm-side of my hand can not touch thepaper. Is this something to be concerned about?

… Personally, I dont see how an oil painting could become "soiled by handling". Dusty,definitly, but dirty? Not unless its dropped in a mud puddle on the way to the museum.Before I apply my final varnish, I give it a wipe with glass cleaner. That takes off anydust before the varnishing process. In any case, as you will learn here, between each paintcoat (when they are dry) you will oil your canvas, which will clean off any oily fingergoop that might be on the canvas. If you can resist touching your painting between coatsbecause it looks so damn realistic, and you work and set it in a dust free as much aspossible place to let it dry (I use a clothes closet which is great 'cause I always have myown seat on the tram), than dont worry about the dirt too much. Hope that helped.good advice Alan if you are uesint a raw onion on your canvas befor you oil it out thattakes any dirt or oils that mite have inadvertinly acumulated on the cerface away it alsosofens the paint alowing the new paint to stick this is perticulerly inportent over Titaneamwhite as its vary slick and shinny and reasist linseed oil i found that out on myCommuion painting as the white up in the corner would not take any linseed no mater

how many times i brushed it on the onion trick really works and its cheep and varyinviormentaly safe

toningUmber layerGray layerColor layerDetail layerand if you are doing the clear glazing methoud mabe you could show what a layer lookslike both ways glazed and unglazed any takers?Here is a list of your steps Paul.

I want to add my understanding of this process.Prepair smooth canvas

Underdrawing - black ink

toning - very thin umber layer (let dry, wet sand, onion, oil out)

Umber layer (let dry, wet sand, onion, oil out)

Deepen colors in umber layers if necessary (let dry, wet sand, onion, oil out)

Gray layer (let dry, wet sand, onion, oil out)

Color layer (let dry, wet sand, onion, oil out)

Detail layer (let dry, wet sand, onion, oil out)

THEN after weeks to months of drying if you still have it in your posession - varnish it.

…you dont have to wet sand if you dont want to its totaly up to you i dont do it becaus idont mind some texsture to my work i kind of like it and defantly no wetsanding on thedetail layer that kinda defeats the perpos as the detail is ment to have texsture to itwhats to rip in to it looks great for an umber layer then never have the depth of a colorlayer any way its looking vary goo thoe want to see the philosfer hes the one thatexsitsites me! ok going to post pictures of Pensive Beaty

I wonder if I could use an Ultra Fine Sharpie to trace the drawing instead of ink.i ues an untra fine pen that contains water proof inck you can get them at the art storeArno, I have the Ultra Fine Sharpie perm. marker also. If you try it before I do, let meknow how it worked. // My 3 18"x24" gallery wrapped linen canvas came today (finally).The weave of the canvas is really small. It should not take much to smooth it out. Stillwaiting for the gesso and modeling paste though. // Thanks Paul. I will try the processwithout the wet sanding at first.

…you said you did NOT wet sand, so I am wondering if you do the razor blade scrapingthat Delmus suggest? I don't have a grinder to round off the edges of a razor blade. //

…If you cant grind the ends off of your razor blades, dont use 'em. Its too easy to ripthrough the canvas...thats experience speaking! Sanding is just as good and lessdangerous for your board, just a bit slower maybe. Did you see my post about painting"The Girl with the Pearl"? I think that was meant for you. Good luck!

… painting shouldn't be a struggle, it should be fun, or a therapy, or a tension release.And this process is really not so difficult. Find yourself a subject and give it a go. You'llalways find help here.

…. Did you gesso your canvas first? Seems a bit rough. If you look very closely at worksfrom the Renaissance period, you will see the canvases, and the wooden planks that wereused before canvas, were VERY smooth. Since alot of glazing was used during that time,the painting sufaces had to be smooth in order to get the "glass" effect. Your next stepwill be the umber layer. Your medium should be linseed oil, terp, and Damar varnish (itprotects the painted surface), 50:25:25

…Seeing your post has brought some questions to my mind since your umber layer is"solid-one color". On page 1 of this discussion (11/27/10) Paul (Damaclese) posted aoverview from some other artist. In that, #2 states that the umber layer was to "definedark areas in the painting". Again, I looked at Paul's dancer's umber layer.......http://community.how-to-draw-and-paint.com/photo/pensive-beauty-wip.... It wouldappear that the lightest lights of the painting were still left and that you could already startto see form by lights and darks. QUESTION: Is it best, even on the first layer, to leavelights - because - you can not get them back, and the glazes can reflect off of the lightareas of the canvas through the paint?

…umber layer you can paint it as realistic as you would like some of the modernpatingers do a photo perfict umber layer i just try to represent the highst mid tone andlowest values the perpes of the umber is as a cemical stabalizer you see umber neverchanges colore not over 100's of years as its the product of burning earths in a kiln so itscemicly inert the other reson we ues it is becaus its been fierd it's poris and absorbsmosture out of the top coats of painting making them dry at an excelarated pace Delmusthoe i dont want to speek for him dose a farly rudamentory umber layer he just hits thedarkest darks mainly and Alan dose like me he hits the three difing leveals of value itsmore to set up up to start thinking about what the value ranges are going to be in otherwords how darks is your darkest light and how light is your highest value do youumnderstand now personly i wouldint swet the umber it sould be quick and done withfast i dont think i ever spent more then one painting sesion on an umber layer were youneed to do the vary best you can is in the gray layer thats going to be the sutaltys of yourpainting the road mape for your colors and value

… Thin layers of oil (linseed) do dry fast, especially if you have added a bit of Liquin(speeds up drying) and turpentine. Its quite possible that your imprimatura is dry, but ifyou have ANY doubts, wait another day. Before you begin your next layer, you shouldoil your canvas...smear linseed oil on your canvas with your fingers so its covered in athin coating, wait a minute or two, than wipe it off. I use first gauze (doesnt leavefibers)to get most of the oil off, than tissue to finish it. You should have a very thin layer,actually just a shine, of oil on your canvas. You should do this between each layer, pluswet sanding or scraping to get rid of any "aliens" that have landed in the wet paint. Ifyour paint isn't completely dry, you'll end up with paint on your fingers and thats BAD. Iknow its tough to be patient sometimes, but better to stay away from the brushes a littlelonger than mess up a nice painting. Why not start another one so you always havesomething to work on? Good Luck!

… You should indeed let the imprimatura represent the lightest part of your painting,than work darker from that. Thats one of the ways you get depth to your painting. Justmake sure your imprimatura is light...just a shade darker than your gesso (you can mix ina touch of acrylic umber to break the pure white).

....Do I sand with any fine tooth sand paper (if needed) or need it be the wet sand paper600 grit? (I dont have that yet). What kind of sandpaper are you using (the # of the grit)?

…you sould ues 400 grit not any thing finer you be sanding your life away with 600 oreven 900 yes they make it for automotiv aplacations i think they even make up to 1400 iknow iv seen 1200 some where in my life time

…you just want to get the bumps off a few pases untill thers no gloss left on the canvasany more and your just sanding away good matireal even if you feel a few soft bumpsthats ok as they will go when you do the nexst coat so its coat and sand coat and sandcoat and sand the last layer sould besanded befor you do your drawing and aply thetoning color o i almost forgot yes it needs to be wet sanding paper its every were so dontworry its not uncomen all guys can tell you were to get it if your local hard ware dosinthave it but if they dont you sould find a new store LOL

Ok lets try this. I've completed the grey layer (doodwerf = dead paint as we say inFlemish) and I'm started to add layers of opaque color. These wont be terribly detailed,they are only a "springboard" for the transparent glazes that will follow later. Byspringboard, I mean that light will pass through the transparent glazes and bounce back toour eyes from the opaque background. lue over it, For example, if I paint an opaque redbackground (vermillion, say) and paint transparent layers of acquamarine blue over it, Ishould get a really pretty glass-like purple. Most shadows and dark colors are generallyglazes in Renaissance art, bright colors are generally opaque lights (these bounce the lightdirectly back to our eyes). So if everything works out right, I should get a window thatlooks like glass, a curtain that has folds that look like folds, and all sorts of neat things.

Mad Cap. I understand what you are saying......now.........I have to think and see if I canapply the color changes to what I really want the color to be in my painting. You saidpaint red curtains and blue glazes to produce purple. /// I am very happy to report thatafter 2-3 weeks of stressing on what to paint, I have spent the last 2 days photographingdifferent compositions and finally have a "winner" that I have selected to paint. /// I amnearing completion of the WORK it takes to prep the canvas (lol).

sotto l'illustrazione

tonalità dello strato la tonalità/stemmende laag/toneing layer

now for my first clear glaze and this is not part of the tradtional Flemish technicqu but ihave discoverd that adding a clear glaze betwen all layers ads an incredibal amount ofdepth but i can't garintly the longevity of the pating i simply do not know how this afectsit over all life span and i cover my but on this by saying that flemish technique is not ahard sience we dont know 100% for sure what every artist did at that time the tech we arepresenting was somthing that has been hypothisesd for quite some time thers is evadenceto suport most of it but many artist did things that were there perticuler trad secret so imincluding the Clear Glazing as one of my trad secrets that iv chosen to share with you all"By springboard, I mean that light will pass through the transparent glazes and bounceback to our eyes from the opaque background. lue over it, For example, if I paint anopaque red background (vermillion, say) and paint transparent layers of acquamarine blueover it, I should get a really pretty glass-like purple. Most shadows and dark colors aregenerally glazes in Renaissance art, bright colors are generally opaque lights (thesebounce the light directly back to our eyes). So if everything works out right, I should geta window that looks like glass, a curtain that has folds that look like folds, and all sorts of

neat things."

For those following, there are "pearls" within the discussion. This was one of them in myview! Cut and paste these into your favorite document program, print them out, and hangthem in your studio somewhere near your easel for future reference!

… what is your "clear glaze" made of? I'm enjoying the progression of your portrait! can'twait to see the colors of the tat!..…the clear glaze is mad of 30% Liquen and 60% linssed thats the exstra light kind thathas ben bleached by exsposure to lquen nothing more nothing less if you do two coatsbetwen each layer its F*&^ing intens the depth you get but as i said thats a lot of layerson a canvas i dont think it will fail i talked to my paint cemist guroo and he thought itsould be fine as linseed is a good sturctural reinforser and dose sill out air i thought itmite slow the drying to maybe 100 years rather then the normal 60 to 80 years but he saidthat was a gues at best

To all who may need an editing photo program.. Search the internet for "GIMP" withoutthe quotes. It is free and almost the same as the expensive Photoshop program.

.........was it you that was thinking of using a Sharpie pen along with me? I got this notefrom a friend who is a professional artist about the Sharpie pens.............(((((.....I saw thatyou were asking about the sharpie pen. I understand that after years the ink will bleedthrough the paint. Not a good idea I think to use it. I've actually used it to sign mypaintings, but since it's on the surface I don't care if it bleeds through to the back, but itwould ruin your painting using it before you paint eventually.......))))). SO......guess webetter go with the better artist quality ink.

…I've given a link to a painting in which I did try the sharpie thing. It did not turn outwell! When you look at this first image, you will see the ink marks bleeding through theumber underlayer. It wasn't until I washed and scrubbed the painting with turps to pulloffending substance out. I then went back with a coat of liquin to seal it. You can see thebleeding does not come through the dead layer, however, in 50 years, the customer maybe bringing this one back for a redo! only time will tell, don't make my mistake. Thereare felt tip pens that utilize the recommended waterproof indian (sometimes spelled"india") ink that is just like that which comes in the little ink wells.

…i had an art teacher in high school ues a sharpy under a acrilic and it bled threw beforshe even finshed the parinting bad sutff im sorta that one that starte this pen stuff i thinksevral pages ago i do youes a pen but its filled with water proof ink Prismacolor makes aviriaty of pen sizes with this inck and so fare its vary stabeal iv not had any migrationseven when its ben wiped with turps

…i was wrong i said prismacolor but i ment Fibercastel PITT ink pen thats the one that iswater proof pluss i ues the finest point its only .5 mil wide even if it came threw it

wouldint be vary notisebal and some times i let a few of the lins stay in strategic spots tohelp reinforce the compostions any way

…this is the drawing stage of a portrait of my grandson, the brother of Sweet Pea. I wantto get portraits of my 3 grandchildren done for my daughter for Christmas. I'm going touse the flemish technique for this one, though I'm doing it on fine oil pastel canvas as Idont have time to prep all the canvases. So it will be interesting to see how they look onthis canvas.

I will start my painting on my prepared canvas as soon as I've finished these. I still havethe minitures of 'pears' and 'rose' on prepared canvases that I'm working on as theybecome ready for the next stage. So by the time I get around to the prepared canvaspainting I will have, hopefully, ironed out my mistakes! :)

This is the photo of 'Jack' that I'm working from.

no issues later on so I was releaved and happy. // I do have a question aboutMICHELLE's DRAWING in INK. The child's hair is blond, but she drew in very detailedblack lines in that area. Is that going to cover up in the gray layer so she ends up with ablond haired kid? Should she "tone it down" by putting some gesso back over the dark inthe hair? /// I am intrested in this because, if you remember, my pots sit on a white rabbitfur. Any hints on how I should draw this fur - details or no? I am putting the photo backin here so you can see without having to hunt on earlier post. Ro

Michelle: I DO think the lines in the boys hair are a too dark, and his eyebrows definitelyso. You want to keep your light areas light in every layer of your painting to the end. Thelines in the drawing are only guide lines, and if you have really dark areas, you can"crosshatch", not to specifically make them black, but as a reminder..."this area will bedeep purple"...for example. This is gonna be a hard one to fix, because every followinglayer will make everything darker that shouldn't be. My advice...try it again. Believe me,for every canvas of mine that comes out good, another 3 or 4 get tossed. Its part of thegame, no big deal. And dont you DARE get discouraged! This is how we learn.

Ro: you must paint every hair in your fur thing EXACTLY as it really is. *PANIC!* Nah,just kidding. Notice how many different shades of bluish-grey there are. Those shades aregoing to determine how real your rabbit fur looks. Also on the wine jug on the right.Make a VERY light blue or umber undercoat, it should be just a tiny bit darker than purewhite. In your following layers...umber and grey...leaves those areas white as in theundercoat. Later, this should give your painting depth. Than when you are ready forcolor, add a touch of ultramarine blue to your white. Use raw umber, light greys, andultramarine blue glazes for your shadows When you are satisfied with your shadowing,use pure titanium white for your whitest areas. Add a bit of "fuzziness" on the edges.BUT....save all of this for LAST. It will be really frustrating to get color in your whiterthan white rabbit fu

Oh my goodness............Let me understand - Michelle drew the lines in the hair andeyebrows too dark and CAN NOT BE REPAIRED even on the drawing layer????? Thereason I am freeking out is because I was planning on copying my photo directly to thecanvas (skip the drawing and then transfering) BUT if I mess up and I can not fix agoofed line I am not sure I want to be that brave. QUESTION: As a repair, could thecanvas not just be repaint with the gesso/modeling paste mixture and sand again? OR puta few coats of white acrylic first over the hair and eyebrows area, and then thegesso/modeling paste. // My linen canvas cost me almost $60 each. I can not throw thatout and say whoops I goofed. I would have to figure out a way to repair black ink lines ona canvas. DOES ANYONE KNOW or at least lets try to come up with ideas that mightwork to resolve this issue. ////// If I was Michelle I would be willing to TRYANYTHING. What does she have to loose if the canvas is ruined anyway? I would trysomething if it were me. What if I had to put 5 more layers on the canvas and that saved

it. I just spent some time but saved $60. (((((Mad Capt said to Michelle -- This is gonnabe a hard one to fix, because every following layer will make everything darker thatshouldn't be. My advice...try it again. Believe me, for every canvas of mine that comesout good, another 3 or 4 get tossed. Its part of the game, no big deal. And dont youDARE get discouraged! This is how we learn.)))))

I sent an e-mail to my friend who is a professional artist and ask if she had any ideas.Here is her reply........."As for the disaster in black, she can paint or even gesso the entirecanvas if she wants. There's always a way to save a canvas. We're talking about oils here.They cover anything eventually. I would paint over it until it's covered and then seal it. Itmight take some time to dry, but it will work.".........

.So that is another thought.

I want to know how to repair goofs like.......what if you accidently draw out of the line oryour hand slips and you now have a line going way out in the background area where youhad not wanted it.

// I accidently bought some Tit. White Underpainting White. Never even knew thatexisted, and sure did not like it as it was different than what I was used to. I decided tojust start painting all my canvases with a Tit.White base, let dry and paint on top. It isopaque but very slow drying.

This is the umber layer of Jack. I did it last night before reading the posts on how dark hishair and eyebrows are this morning.....oh well, back to plan B! :)

…and way been doing the colors layer of my curint work pensive Beauty and wasfreeking out today as i was so pleased with this work that now im geting nervous tofinishe it im so afrad i will mess it up in the last 5 brush strokes you know what they saypatings are rowind in the end not the begining heres a picture i sent an email but if yousee this first just agnor that andy way here ya all go tell me what you think honistly

Michelle, I think the (his) rt eyebrow is much lighter. Why not just hit the other eyebrowagain to lighten it also-- as well as the hair (much lighter) and let it dry. You may be onyour way to success with a solution! Good Job! Ro

Paul, some of the areas look almost finished to perfection. Looks good.........just keep onwith the details and tweeking. I know you will pull this off to perfection. RoRo how i fixs a drawing aror befor i put any paint on the canvas is to take a bright brushwith a vary fine sinthetic hair and paint some wary think layers of geso over them youmite have to do it a cupel of times just do it thin and dont use a cours brush it comes outvary smoth take your timeooking good i dont think the dark lines on the eye brow are a problem most of that iscoverd byt the opake layers i gues one could sermise that as some point light dose get allthe way down to the cerface and bouncese back out but i dont think you are going to getany notisibal lines if you cover afectivly in the gray layer

OK, (thanks Mary for the information) I had to look up Grisaille that MarySmentioned. Here is a site that tells all about ithttp://atlantis.mendocino.edu/lbradyar/Painting%20Lesson%20for%20Oi... butbasicly it is the gray layer where values are determined. There are other linksbelow on that page that were good. One that I had already run across was theGAMBLIN Oil Colors site where they listed several palettes, and one was a oldmasters palette. Good site to just explore color.http://www.gamblincolors.com/oil.painting.techniques/palettes.old.m...

I also looked up verdaccio and this site showed a great picture of the detail theperson did on a portrait that he was working on.http://oilstrokes.com/techniques/verdaccio/ I found it helpful.

Now the question is...what to believe and what not to believe. According to artpapa.com:

For example fantastic colors in the paintings of Rubens and Snyders are made with only 3basic colors: Flake Yellow, Vermilion and Prussian Blue.

However, if you read "Pigments Throughout the Ages":

The first modern, artificially manufactured color was Prussian blue. It was made by thecolormaker Diesbach of Berlin in about 1704. Diesbach accidentally formed the bluepigment when experimenting with the oxidation of iron. The pigment was available toartists by 1724 and was extremely popular throghout the three centuries since itsdiscovery.

Rubens died in 1640, before Prussian Blue was even invented. Conclusion? Dont believeeverything you read about the Flemish or Venetian methods.I

I started the following portrait using the flemish technique before this forum started,

…, The only trick I know to help you here is in the way I do my blending. I put in thecolors and then using a redsable filbert I pat moving across the colors I want to blend.For instance, if I wanted to have a dark color and a light color next to each other andwanted the light color to move towards the dark. I would start patting in the light colorgoing to the dark, then wipe the brush very good before I started another area. When Idid the face on my Indian Holding a Pot that is how I made the colors softly blendtogether. (The way MaryS cheek looked). MARYS would you share how you blendyour colors to be so smooth? Oh, I was not doing the Flemish Tech so that may beentirely different and the patting is not needed. (??)

Heres a trick for making nice blends. The equipment is free and very effective...fingers!Get a little bit of linseed oil on the smear finger and start blending. You can pull yourpaint in any direction; When you are satisfied with the blend, use a soft badger brush tosmooth out all of the "fingerprints". But be careful with paint containing lead, which aremost whites. Lead is VERY poisonous, if you have cuts on your fingers, wear thin rubbergloves

I usually advise learning to draw accurately before turning straight to color, because Ibelieve in the process one acquires the skill that counts the most: the skill of observation.One not only learns to "see" values, but also see color correctly - bearing in mindthat color is never what it seems to be. But with that said, I realize that paint is a lot morefun, so it's a choice one needs to make for him or herself!

The colors I've used for the boy's skintones were burnt umber, burnt sienna, ultramarineblue, indian red, raw ochre, cad. red light, cad. orange, naples yellow, titanium white.

…i love the dark back ground and the strong light contrast of her fare skin in relationshipto its deep value good instincts i wish i could geive you advice on blinding but tend toover blend my work and loos alot of details makeing me have to paint more layers then isould but as i said im new to figurative and portraiture work one of the things i do to keepmy self going is to look at the works of Rembrant he had such a beautifull style of bothhighly blended areas and then obvous but persily layed brush work i dont think you cango wrong emulating his work style and i could see this technique working well in thecontexst of your portrait i would and again im horibal at eyes but i think you shouldrecheck her eye shapes a bit they seem a tinny bit smal for her face but i could be wrongon that i dont know what the origan looks like and perhaps spend some time bring out thebrideg of her nows as it sinks in a bit visouly nowses speak valums about the power of aface thats just my opinoun take it for what its worth

… your painting is coming on nicely, you've done a wonderful job on her lower lip andthe darks in the background are really effective. Do you have the original photo youcould upload so we can see what you are painting from? I think it's useful for giving

feedback if we can see the original reference photoes and the style you're trying toachieve.

I was just commenting on your photo Claude. I think you've captured the 'glow' in herskin really well, it's not the skin tone I think just that you havnt blended the colourstogether. Maybe you could go over it again and blend? I think with her eyes it's that theylook a bit 'flat'. If you remember that eyes are 'balls' (our eyeballs) in 'holders' (thesockets) and that you can see the shadows where the 'ball' recedes into the socket and thehighlights where the 'ball' is closest to the light. Also there is always a shadow under thetop eyelid where the eylid overhangs the eye.

:)

First of all, you've picked a very beautiful reference and your painting is not too far off!What I will try to do is pull your attention to a few key elements. The easiest way tocheck for drawing mistakes is what's called "sight-sizing". What it means is simplyputting your reference against your paintingto at approx. the same size and comparingthem area by area, ie jaw lines, nose lines, hair lines, mouth lines, etc. etc. Hope you don'tmind me showing what I mean by using your own images.

Next we're comparing the values (darks against lights). In this context it's important tonote that values mean the degree of illumination of any given tone on its own merit,regardless its own color or surrounding tones.Last we're comparing posterized images to find where our darks, midtones and highlightsshould really be.

Let's see the next pairs and I hope that this time the images will actually show on screen.

This procedure is designed to help finding and fixing errors (drawing and value). Thecolor is secondary and we need to disregard it for now.

The thing that stands out is the misplacement of values. There's an entire range missingon the viewer's left side, Please note the dark on her nose, right cheek, neck and shoulder.With some practice you'll be able to evaluate the "level" of shadow darks, since theyshould not be too dark.

thats a awesome technique Mary ive never ues that exsact type of photo refrince what itipicly do is i print out and 8.5x11 colore photo then i print an 8.5x11 gray scale i do mydead layer of the gray then swich to my color in the nexst layer but im going to try yourset up nexst painting wow this is just awsome and sins im waiting for Pensive Beautystherd glazing layer to dry alll be working on Intimacy all week end iv got the perfictopertonity to ues it as im in the midal of the umber layer so its not to late

…, I'm glad you find this useful! Personally I don't print out the reference, but paintdirectly from the monitor - it's very convenient because I can zoom the reference in orzoom out, desaturate for grisaille or adjust a desaturated image to any monochromatictone - for instance, the umber underlayer or dead layer. From what I understand

about Flemish Technique, the closer we get the drawing and values at early stages, theeasier to apply subsequent layers. I think it's a wonderful technique and yourpainting "Pensive Beauty" is looking gorgeous already!

Sight sizing makes easier to detect mistakes in color too, not just grayscale - but for somereason the first photos I've posted didn't show up. I'll try again.

… the dramatic effect you get with this technique is absolutely stunning and I never tireof looking at works done in this technique.

I've found a nice image of a rose on morguefile.com and thought I would give it a try.

So here we go - 30x40cm canvas, an imprimatura, a roughly laid out drawing with abrush (accuracy is not a priority yet) and the beginning of a block-in with very thinlymixed paint.

Mary: What is your grey mix and medium? Tell us all this stuff too please, its importan

Oh sorry MadCapt, good point. The medium I've used for this underlayer is W&N'sSansodor (it's basically odorless mineral spirits), no oil so far. The colors: burnt umber,raw sienna, ivory black, titanium white. From now on I'll be following the tips you guyshave provided.

This little rose is an experiment towards something more significant I hope to start (oneof Bouguereau's self portraits - not sure which yet).

Paul and MadCapt, have you guys heard of Olga Rybakova? She's a russian artist whopaints exclusively in this technique. Here's a link detailing her procedure, that I think isworth checking - http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=511308

What do you guys think of her methods?

hey they looks pretty good but if you dont do the dead layer or some other kind of opacelayer under you glazig its farly hard to get the depth of field as the light gets obsorbed bythe underlayer of Umber its vary hard to see this afect on a modern Digital camraperticulerly posted on line but as good as jack looks his skin would glow more if he hadthe under layer please dont think im critasisng you just trying to exsplain why itsimportint is all

see even thoue we advacate the gray layer you can do all sorts of dead layers forexsample you can do them in green or red or yellow there are exsamples with all of thesekinds of underlayes yeach one brings a difrent kind of light to your work for exsample ithard to see in my newist painting but the under color allthoe predomintly gray it had ahavy 2 part quanity of yellow Oker add to the mixe and thoue not really aprint this willinflowins my finished painting by brining a warm under glow to the finished painting i dorecomend uesing a under colore added to the gray perticulerly in portrature where thelight is not only direct but indirect it gives them such life

looking good so fa keep going be caful how dark you tone the canvas it makes you wourkharder in the end but having to bring your lights up more then you would normaly have toand there for absorbing to much light im notoriasly gilty of making my dead layers todark then i have to ues alot of white which is super opace and dosint do a good job ofletting light boince in an out the point is to acheave are gole with as litil paint as posibalthe less the more light will penatrait and there for be bounced back to are eyes giving arework and inturnal glowwhat about Leanardo and his smoky afect? what's that called fumascuro?

Ok, here's the finish of my underpainting - that means a more detailed drawing and closervalues.

Usually, the closer is our underpainting, the easier it gets to handle the following stages.

The umber layer next.

.....letting light boince in an out the point is to acheave are gole with as litil paint asposibal the less the more light will penatrait and there for be bounced back to are eyesgiving are work and inturnal glow

So we are to paint as thin as possible...........correct?

And after 2 more hours of work: right eye and nose still need 2 more hours.Sheesh!

Ok Claude thats looking better the nowes still needs to come forwerd rember lighter colormake things look closer and darker maks things recied in the case of a face we are talkingsome vary sutal difrencese in value just keep playing with it took me a full 6 days to getmy ballarinas eyes shaped enough to move on to the colore layer and another few daysmore im still not sure im done with them as yet

i forgot to show you all my photo so i included it at the botem

yes its better to do more layers then just a few thick one this is the most critical with yourtransparint glazes your gray layer it isint as inportent but no thick globs of paint you needto take a blending brush and pat out your brush strokes so thers as litle texstre as isposibal but rember this is a painting so lets not get OCD on it just lay your colors down towhat ever thickness dose the job i my self tend to cover my canvas prity well in the graylayer but then in the color i do lots of thin coats that have a prity fair amount of mdeam in

them i like my colors to go on smothly we arnt talking inky but sorta like Butter that hassat out on the counter for a wile its not runing all over the place but its soft still holdingits shape

thats what i do im not saying this is the way you have to do it you all have painted manytimes befor if thers a certain way you like to paint then do it thats what makes it uniqulyyour own work besids we all are going to do many more works God willing and you aregoing to get your own tchnique in the long run so dont swet the smal stuff just get inthere an paint or im going to get my gigantic 46 " x 46" done first and i exspect to be thelast by at least a month

Ps i forgot when every one has there color layer down we will talk about the finishinglayer this is really cool were you will get to put texstres in you painting

Claude, I so wish there was an easy way around drawing! But unfortunately in portraitsit's particularly crucial to keep track of angles, basic measurements between thefeatures and value relationships, - or else we're risking to lose the likeness. I guaranteeyou, with time and practice, you will get much better.

Also, it's extremely important to understand what the term "value" means in art glossary.When we look at any given object, what we actually see is determined by the light -as form turns away from the source of light, it will always get increasingly darker. If youtake another look at your reference (by the way, who is the gorgeous lady?), you'll noticethat the light is coming from the vewer's right and below, hence the shadow on her rightand the nose bridge.

I've made a quick sketch which I hope will help you see what is happening with parts ofher face that are less lit.

Mary your rose is spectacular the way it is...you're an amazing artist! Do you paint yourunderdrawing? I am having problems with the pen marks on my underdrawings. I'musing a soluble india ink pen but it's still leaving marks I cant seem to cover...HELP!

Michelle, we learn as we go and what's more effective than learning from our ownmistakes :) First of all, there is no question that those marks should have been coveredcompletely by layers of paint. If it hasn't happened, then either the markswere excessively thick or the paint was excessively thin. In either case, additional layersshould fix the problem.

OK, I've started my painting on the prepared canvas. I'm going to have a go at 'GypsyGirl' by Boccaccino. Here's the drawing. I decided to paint my drawing in this time asI've had so much trouble with the ink showing through in my 'practice runs'. I think hermouth isn't right.

Michelle, the mouth is placed correctly but there should be a lost edge on the right of herlower lip and the shadow underneath her mouth should be slightly pushed to herleft. Also take a note of the dark shadow across her left cheek. The lit part of that cheekshould be considerably narrower. (Excellent choice of a reference, good luck!)

After Mary's comment I wanted to see what the posterize - value 9 - in Photoshop wouldshow up. Here is the image. The original photo has such a smooth color change I washaving a hard time seeing the difference in values (lack of portrait experience on my endI am sure). I hope my contribution is helpful.Ro

QUESTION...........does anyone know of a problem using "graphite transfer paper" totransfer the drawing to the canvas? That is what I have on hand

Anyone, I had trouble with the oil layer. The linseed oil was so thick I couldhardly spread it. Actually the bottle says "Linseed Stand Oil". Did I get thewrong oil or maybe it sat on the shelf too long? I saw Delmus pour a little on hishand and easily spread it on the canvas.

Ro, I use graphite paper with no trouble. I don't know if that is a no no for thisstyle of painting. I have used it for years in many of my other paintings.

…i ues grafite transfer paper as long as you ink over it as grafite washes away with thelinseed and turps

stand oil is supposed to be thick its the slowest drying of all the linseed oils i wouldrecomend just useing raguler old light natural linseed its much thiner the stand oil willtake a month or more to dry raguler only takes a week if you use some Liquen in it tohelp excelarat the drying

Ro: no problem at all, I use it all the time. However, try not to lean your hand onthe picture your copying or you'll smudge up your canvas. And that will makePaul VERY angry! In any case, once you've strengthened your drawing with ink,almost all the carbon will come out in the turp/varnish medium of the impremutralayer. I build these little "bridges" out of junk wood that span the canvas so thatwhen I trace, my hand rests on the little bridge instead of the canvas. Hardly anysmudges, which makes Paul very happy!

Arno: Yep dude, wrong oil. Cold pressed linseed oil is probably the most popularof oils and is used as the base for most medium mixes, stand oil is linseed oil thathas been heated and thickened. Wouldn't recommend using it on its own unlessthinned with turps...than you might as well use linseed oil. However, added tocertain mediums, it does thicken the mix which could come in useful when usingthe Flemish method.

Okay Paul, I guess I will have to put it aside and start another. How about using an onionto oil out between layers? Or is the linseed oil best?

Thanks I am headed for the art supply store to get the cold pressed linseed oil. How longdoes it take to dry if used by it self?

yes i dont think we coverd this but every one sould be uesing a raw onone to wipe thercanvases down befor you put the linseed oil on this dose two things it slitly de glazes thecerface of the paint layer and sofins it in a vary controld way it will help you top layers tostick to older ones and if your are uesing titanium white then you better do it as T Whitedose not take new paint and certinly resist linseed oil i learnd this the hard way on mycanvas of my dream painting Communoin

Dude i only get mad at my smuges and besids i ues an awesome tool caled a mallbridg ithas clamps on its ends that slide to acomadate difering sizes of canvas and you can clampit on any spot keeps the hands and arms off your work excelarats painting 100% fasterand no acsadental leaning and faling in to your canvas with the for arm

I did actually mess around on the GYMP program to try to find those lost edges on theright of the painting, though I think they are meant to be really indistinct. the images arewhat I came up with. I'm going to finish the drawing to get it accurate tonight, then itsthe impremetura layer right? And I just barely tint the canvas and picture in this layerwith what? Yellow ochre and a mix of demara varnish and what? and do I add liquin tothis layer at all. and what percentages of liquin do you add to your layers

Wow, I had no idea of the properties of onion, thank you guys!

I'm done with the first umber layer, so here's how I did it: cut a fresh onion in twoand carefully rubbed it all over the dry underpainting; on top of that rubbedin linseed oil. Then took a paper towel and wiped it all out of the canvas incircular movements. The colors I've used: burnt umber, naples yellow, a tiny bitof yellow ochre and titanium white (I can only hope that it's ok to use this set ofcolors for the umber layer - please let me know if it was wrong!).

If I understood correctly, the purpose of the second umber layer is to reinforcethe darkest darks and highlights. Or perhaps there's no need for that? What do youguys think.

you use umber to tint your canvas its a drying agent in an of it self so no liquen it souldbe dry in a day or so not that big a deal you want to tone your canvas to the mid tonealvalue you find this by looking at your photo and squinting your eyes the blury color yousee will be the mid tone but its not that critical it more to take the glare of a white canvasaway so you dont hurt your eyes staring at a white canvas alot over the years can aculydamige your eyes alow we want to be abal to consintrait on are subject and color chousesno be distracted visouly but a bright white wich is destracting even if you are not awarethat you are bing influinsed

the damar gose in your medeam on this layer your mideam sould be aproxsmatly 50%linseed and 50% turps take and eye drper and add 1 or 2 drops of damar in to it thats howlitile you need then on each layer you add 1 or 2 max to the mdeam so that add when you

do the umber layer add in the gray layer then add for the color layer finaly in the detaillayer hope thats clear

there are no hard and fast rules on this i ues strate umber but looking at what you did itlooks like all be trying it Delmus ueses T white in his if you go to his web site heexsplains its ok to find short cuts as long as they dont interfer with other proceses i dontreally paint as complex on my umber layer as you do i just block out the darks reallyquickly and move on its not wrong what you have done in the slitest just nexst time ithink if i where you id be more judsous about it as its all going to be coverd up any wayand you mite whant to reinfours the darks a bit deeper this is so over the centurys as yourcolors fade the darks underneath will still be there umber never shift color no mater howold it is as its a burnt earth and is at its max oxsidation from the first day you put it onedose that make sens

Mad Capt gave a recipe of 50% Linseed oil, 25% Damar Varnish, 25% Turp

Paul just gave his recipe of 50% L.Oil & 50% Turp with 1-2 drops of Damar Varnish.

How about Mad Capt and Paul give a discussion of the difference in the recipes. I was itsettled so I have just one that I am going to go with. Wonder what Delmus uses?

Have a question about my drawing and the technique. Seems to me it would be better forme to draw the entire pot's decoration and then AFTER I paint the pot I would add theglare spots during one of the final glaze layers? Is that correct? I noticed on Paul'sdancer he left out the hightlight areas, but that is different than a decorated pot. What doyou think? Thanks always for the help. Roena PS the pot is hand painted and thedecorations are not "machine" perfect.

Mary: I think if I was you, I would stop where I was, sell this for a few hundred euros, or.shekels (few thousand than)...and start another one. I couldn't imagine it being anybetter, its blooming out of my screen! Anyway, for your grey layer, I'd just touch up afew spots, maybe not do anything at all and go right to color. How are you planning yourcolor? Soft values or bright chromas? Interesting to see what you do with this.

Ro: Well at least we both agree on 50% linseed oil, right? Thats whats nice about thismethod, regarding mediums, they are all general suggestions because there is absolutlyNO agreement as to what mediums Rubens, Vermeer , Van Eyck, Michaelangelo,etc...used. They simply didn't write things down. Some things you can count on...TheVenetian method used softer edges and therefore probably an "oilier" medium, possiblywith the addition of venetian turpentine, which is actually a resin that, when mixed withyour oil, causes the paint to spread a bit. Flemish paintings had sharper edges, so theseartists might have used more of a stiff, gel type medium...beeswax, stand oil,mastics...any number of things could of been used. The thing to remember with mediumsis that a little goes a long way, its like mortar holding bricks together, too much and thestructure is weak. How much medium do you use? Your choice, isn't that nice? Butremember fat over lean...the further you go with your painting, the more medium ( dropsat a time depending on how much paint you are using) you will be adding.

if i rembered it right i think i was giving the recipy that i got from Delums Mdeams arevary personal i like to keep things simple if you want to ues Alans Recpie then by all

means do so i dont like ues alot of Damar its a vary powerful binder and even minutamounts work just fine if i were to go with Alans perpotion i would worry that the damarmite make for a vary slick and shinny cerface not a bad thing to have on your final coatas it seals dust out but when i want to continue painting more layers i dont want to riskethat my new paint will not properly adhere to the old layers i try to paint as iff my workwill servive for 400 years or more so its just a mater of opinon many sources tha i haveread sujested a few drops of damar increasing it by the drop in each susaquent layer sorryif Alan and i confsed you but more often then not this is the kind of thing thats going tocome up over and over as we both said thers not alot of eveadence around as to what themasters did im uesing the techniquse that have been around the longest as far as modurnpatings go but sins nun are 400 years old whos to say what is best so again i defer to yourcomfort leveal and preforencese for mdeams you can buy pre made mdeams many arevary fine quality its up to you all confess some times i only ues Linseed and nothing ellsthat works too just what ever you do keep it simple you want to be abal to rember fromone painting to the nexst whats you have done in the past keep notes if your going toexspirment

A drawing of some kind that will resist turps and linseed

toning your canvas

creating the darkest parts in som earthy tone like burnt umber but any dark tone will work

a gray or colore laer that is monocrom in nature it can be Gray Red Yelow Grean Blue orany shad or colore you want

i tend to pick colors that suport my finished works color goles

then a colore layer of your opaces

then your glazing to reinfors depth of value shadows deep colore

then your detail layer were you add texstures imposto high lights and any thing elss thatmite requier a high leveal of detail

then drying time

and finly some nice ceats of linseed or demar to deal out dirt and grime and give yourwok that profestional finish

and finly framing to make it all raped up like a pretty window

im not sure i understand not only your question on your drawing all dteals of inportensare added to the drawing but not conpleated untill the colore layers but you can do themfrom the first time on if you want its not that inportent as far as i know the brightest spots

are going to have an underpining from the umber layers on but not final whites are addeduntill the detail layers dose that make sens

you noted that on my ballarina thers a lack of high lights except the most promint ones onhere face thats becas i will not add them untill almost the end of the painting there are thequickest of all the dteals some times its just a dab here and there did that answer youquetion?

some of theas pertain to an indavisouls style of painting some people like to be varydetaild right off and some like to wait untill the end i gues it depends on how much youlike to paint around things if that dosint bother you then paint the decorations in as earlyon as you want

for an exsample on my latist work Intimicy all be painting in the tatoo on my bodybuilders arm from the gray layer on its just to magure a focal point not to give alot ofdepth and atention toi want that tatoo to have many layers of colore and value to it so i think it needs the graylayer for me to work out and understand what it needs

paintings will tell you what they need if you live in the spirit of being there and getingreal with your work i fall in to a trance like state when i paint i become one with the worki look and lisin to its values its rithems i develop a mental dialog with my self as if i amthe painting and it is me i hope thats not to metaphisical for every one but i want toreinfors that its vary importent for ever one to relaxe and not get to bent out over details ireally just want you to get in there and be like 5 year olds they see paint and the squelwith dalight they grab and they smire and they creat and then live what they do and thatshow i want you to Paint

Carpa Deum "Sees the Day!

Question: After oiling out, do you let the oil dry or paint immediatly?

Arno you paint directly over the linseed when its wet first put the linseed in the palm ofyour hand to warm it up then just take your fingers or a brush and put it on the canvas notto heavy as you will let it sit for 2 or 3 mints then take a lint free cloth and wipe off mostof it you whant it prity thin the idea is that it acks as a lubracent for your bushes and helpsyou spred your paint it alsow acks as a primer helping the new paint to bond with the olddont forget befor you oil out to rub the hole canvas with a raw onion this acts on the oldpaint as a vary controld sofaning agent and is perticulerly inportent when you are paintingover Titaneaum white which drys vary slick and shinny and resist new paint

all i can say is WOW ! its so cool to see how you all interprit what it means to doan umber layer i never take hardly any time on them insted chosing to focus on

the gray laer as my primary guid but you all got me thinking mabe iv been goingabout this rong that umber layer is so beatifull i almost wept with emostionsirously good job Michelle

do you feel are have you noted how doing this umber layer is like practising yourfinal work and how it takes the strees out of painting becuas you get to seeexsactly how the final work will come together thers nothing left to chans in thisprocese and even if you have no idea where you are going by the time you get tothe color layer i can asure you that you will know

Michelle.........really good job. I actually like your background better than the "flat"background on the original painting. Could you discribe your process as that is verymuch like what I want for the background on the pots I am doing. You might know atrick to share, please. Also, the color of the material on the lower part of the girl is prettymuch the color of my pot. What color did you use. Even her face - a bit more dull -would be similar to the color in a different spot on the pot. What color was that? Thanksfor your help on background technique ideas and colors.

Hi Ro, the colour on her face is a mix of burnt umber, yellow ochre and alizariancrimson, the bottom half of the robe is burnt seinna, alizarian crimson and prussian blue.the background is a mix of black, burnt umber and prussian blue. I actually put this onroughly with a large brush then used a 'chux' to dab it off again and blend in around the'lost edges.

Michelle, .........(you said........used a 'chux' to dab it off again..(I just love these aroundthe entire globe of the world converstation because we learn so much.) What is a"chux"?

Sorry Ro, a 'chux' is one of those stripey paper towel things you use in the house forcleaning etc. I expect paper towel would do the same thing. I just keep a roll of thesechux towels in my art room to clean my brushes etc. I didnt use the india ink on the gypsygirl, just carbon to trace then painted the lines back in very carefully. I think I've given upon using ink. I must be heavy handed with it or something because I cant seem to coverthe ink in the painting process.

I figured the Flemish method wouldn't work without the dead layer, so here it is:

doing great Marry thats just how it sould look with bits of the umber coming threw hereand there you can leave some of that all the way to the end i often do its looks vary artsy

On Delmus's site this is what I found. He gave 3 recipes depending on "which layer youwere on".

IMPRIMATUR LAYER = approx 3T turp and 1 eye dropper of Damar varnish. You dipyour brush into the mixture and then into the paint. Paint thin, brush-blend all brushmarks away.

OTHER LAYERS = approx 3T turp, 3 eye droppers of Damar varnish, and 3 eyedroppers of Linseed oil.

COLOR LAYER = approx 3T turp, 3 eye droppers of Damar varnish, and 5 eye droppersof Linseed oil

((Later layers more oil for the fat over lean rule).

Ro, yeah I've mentioned the size - it's 30x40cm - in inches it should be something like11x16'

What do you mean "comparing the steps", whose steps? Also not sure what you meant by"I might try that again if you "dont" put it on your site so I can easily go look" - try whatagain? lol, sorry, I might be having a dense moment!

Yea....I got some paint on the canvas. Seems like a few were concerned that the1st layer on some were too dark, so I went way light. I used only Bt Umber. Mymedium was Delmus's recipe of 3 T Turp and 1 dropper full of Damar Varnish.After I put it on and it started to dry some - me using the soft mop brush to erasebrush strokes, it finally started to "do something" and give me some texture. Ithink I will do many layers of this process so that I get something dark, but notflat paint. Worth a try. I did Mad Capt suggestion to hit the fur and pots withjust enough Bt Umber color to "kill the white". Now, I am going to onion andthen oil out and apply more Bt Umber to the pots and another layer on thebackground. /// I also played guinnie-pig and had my fur sketched in in ink, gotout some wet sandpaper and using turp I wet-sanded over some of the lines just tosee what it would do. I wiped that part down with a paper towel and turp after. Itsoftened it just a little, but not much. I thought that might have been an option./// Does any one have an opinion about putting a drop or two of Cobalt Dryerin the turp mixtures once I get to the Dead Layer? Just wondering as I havesome. Ro

QUESTION. What if I only want to paint on a small area of my painting -- like I amgoing to be working on one of the pots and that is all the time I will have today. Can Ijust oil out the area where I am going to be working OR is it really good to have as many"oil out" layers as you can get on a painting and I should oil out the entire painting eventhough I know I will only be working on a small pot area? I hate to ask silly questions,but who else am I going to ask? he he

yes you can oil out in just the area you want to work in its probly a good idea when youget down to the detail layers that you only oil out in that spot no need to smear linseedwere its not nedded you know if you are working with alot of mdeam in your paint as ioften do you dont have to oil out at all the oiling out procese is to lubracat your canvas sothat your paint and bushes glide smothly and some afects are easer like sucmbing butsay i wanted to do a dry bush technique it would be vary hard to do on an oild canvas asin this case you would want your paint to brake acrossed the serface so you have to uesyour judgment on when to do a perticuler technique and the only way to really know is totry it and see if it works for you genraly speaking its a good idea to oil out so i would say

do it as often as you can but if its going to complcat things dont do it in that perticulerspot but then go back to it as soon as posibal

Meanwhile I laid in a quick portrait drawing and began blocking in with a thin mixtureof burnt umber, yellow ochre, prussian blue and titanium white (oil paints), after toningthe canvas with an acrylic wash of naples yellow mixed with a small bit of prussian blue.The medium consists of 4/5 Sansodor and 1/5 liquin. Size: 40x50cm

Most of my commissions are posthumous portraits, so painting studies is not only greatpractice, but also a nice break from a work routine. I honestly believe that I've learned themost by doing mastercopies and recommend everyone to do the same!

I will approach the color layer pretty much the same as any other grisaille - which meanstrying to avoid mixing complementary colors because of the grays underneath. As I'msure you know, mixing complementaries will result in more grays that will make thecolor looks muddy. To know which colors to mix is probably a function of experienceand if you do it right, there shouldn't be a need in many color glazes.

've touched the canvas again. In two mintues I learned that wet sanding can removersome of the background color!, and that ONION juice will remove a whole lot of theIndian ink. Problem solved for those who wish the drawings were not so dark. It didsmear the ink ever so slightly around a bit, but since my pots are susposed to be old, Ithink it did not cause me any problems. I did put some of the glaze used for the very firstlayer and a tiny bit of color on the pots, but apparently not enough to "seal" the ink. I

was trying hard to retain that white. So- Wet sand with NO pressure and rub onioncarefully in the direction of the line to soften that ink to almost gone. My painting is notruined, but a good lesson learned. Whew.

I've spent a few hours today on the first color layer of my rose painting and aspromised, I'm attaching a few progress shots.

I've used different colors on each segment:

The rose: cadmium red deep hue, alizarin crimson, titanium white

Background: coeruleum blue, ultramarine blue, prussian blue, burnt umber, rawsienna, titanium white.

Mary: Were you born in 17th century Holland or something? Your rose is amazing. Howlong did you work on the colors

PAUL, could you please take a really close up pic of the outer edge where there is justone layer of material thickness so that we can see how you did that? (on your dancer)

yes thats awsome and my sujesten dont ues turps i just use my mdeam to thin and to cleanup I ues Old Master Brush Sope it comes in cakes and big tubs by the tubs its cheaperthen you hous will never smell besides Turps slow down drying i hardely ever geat anycomment from visaters that they can smel paint mainly they ask what the oily oder is andthats linseed but its vary miled

Paul, I do use a paint brush soap cleaner, and I use linseed to clean my brushes after thesoap. I use so called 'oderless thinners' but my art supply shop says that still give somepeople headaches. What thinning medium do you use? Does anyone else have anysuggestions for using a thinning solution that is not toxic? My only other option is topaint outside and hope that works, not very practical in our summer heat though. Wouldwelcome some help on this one if you can guys.

www.buildart.com/secretofcritiquing

As often happens when flittin through cyberspace, I found some rubbish, andsome gems. This is one of them, great information on critiquing, both your ownwork and that of others.

http://virgilelliot.com/essays

Interesting article on mediums in old masters

well, from all I can find it seems Walnut oil is the thing to use for thinning and asa painting medium for its non-toxicity. Well I guess I'll have to just try a paintingusing walnut oil only in this technique to see what results I get.

I also found an information sheet on the toxicity of certain paints I thougheveryone might be interested in. I think I'll have to start wearing thin latex gloveswhen I paint in oils for health safety too. it might be easier to paint with, but itsure isnt the safest of mediums is it!?

Attachments:

Graham-OilColorsAndMediums.pdf, 36 KB

Michelle, I see you have already found out about Walnut Oil that I was going to suggest.An oil painter who paints on Ustream uses Walnut Oil. He even drinks some to prove itis no problem. He calls himself "Dave The Painting Guy".

Mechelle be carfull with oderless thiner thats a hufamisum for Minral spirits which is notconpatibal with Damar varnish i learnd this the hard way your pating will develop bumpsthats the damar converting back to cristals inside the paint filme and soon you will get anoily resado on the serface of your pating thats the Minral spirits leaching to the tope ofthe paint layers takes a long time to dry and your pating could fail in less then a cuple ofyears if not sooner

i dont ues any volital thiners at all just linseed and Liquen the old masters did not havemuch in the way of thiners the italians uesd reseins they colected from trees and certinplants

i wouldint recomend walnut oil it yelows pretty badly and in just a cuple of decadesLinseed is the best its non toxic tho i wouldint drink it as the light stuff has ben exsposedto liquen to bleach it that alsow gos for saflower popy seed and just about any other oilsthey all yellow fast and deeply

dont all the 'recipes' for the medium used in this method call for linseed oil,mineral turps and damar varnish in some proportion at each stage? Thats' whatI've been using and it's been a lethal mix for me with the headaches. So Paul, areyou saying I dont need to use this recipe? That I can just use linseed at each stageinstead?

Can you give the recipe you use at each stage please? Maybe I'll try that.

Michelle: Your nun, I mean gypsy (laugh...) looks great! Very Flemish primitive.Thats not an insult, it was simply the style of painting used even earlier than theFlemish masters, around the 14th- 15th century. Jan Van Eyck was one famousexample, in fact he was falsely credited with "inventing" oil painting. Carefulwith the pupils in her eyes, they are different sizes. Please keep posting.Sugestion: keep her skin tones very light with very little shading, but make herclothes bright colors, accenting folds and stuff. That will REALLY be Flemishprimitive...and very cool!

Michelle: Your nun, I mean gypsy (laugh...) looks great! Very Flemish primitive.Thats not an insult, it was simply the style of painting used even earlier than theFlemish masters, around the 14th- 15th century. Jan Van Eyck was one famousexample, in fact he was falsely credited with "inventing" oil painting. Carefulwith the pupils in her eyes, they are different sizes. Please keep posting.Sugestion: keep her skin tones very light with very little shading, but make herclothes bright colors, accenting folds and stuff. That will REALLY be Flemishprimitive...and very cool!

Well, miraculously my Bouguereau underpainting was dry today and I thought it wouldbe a good idea to analyze the reference closer before doing any more work on thepainting. Eventually I got convinced that he had painted his self portrait in a classicalverdaccio style - a full color layout on a soft gray greenish ground. Then he proceededwith his regular scumbling (slightly rubbing in the paint without a medium).

So here goes - the painting after more work today and a closeup to show how rough itstill is.

Mary: How do you do that so fast?? Is scumbling how he got his soft edges?

MadCapt, I've done tens of drawing, value and color studies during the past year -on top of commissioned portraits, so it's probably a matter of practice.Great point about the edges - yep I think his fabulous edgework is mostly due toscumbling!

Mary: Interesting point about the scumbling. Even though Bou (I'm too lazy tospell out his name but I lover his art, especially "The Broken Jar"...poor girl!)lived quite a bit later, his style is very Venetian, which I THINK developed intothe "French school", which was the style he actually used. If I want to use histechnique in my portrait of the girl, what tips could you give regarding medium,progression (dark to light, glazed darks and opaque lights?), etc. I love thesoftness of his works.

Ro, gosh speed is such a non-issue! I don't believe that any great art has been created fastand sincerely hope that it'll never be used as a criteria.

With that said, there is no other way of gaining skills but to practice a lot. Once you learnto draw well and read values accurately you simply start to get things "right" soonerand then it won't matter what style you choose for yourself - palette-knife loose or photo-realism tight - you will struggle less.

MadCapt, I think Bouguereau's grandeur lies in his modeling technique and itwould be impossible to explain it without breaking the color up by value, hue andchroma. As far as I know, he's never used glazing and his use of medium wasminimal. As for your portrait - look carefully for values at your reference and ifyou keep track, then in my humble opinion it shouldn't matter whether you startwith the lights or with the darks.

Mary, I just saw your completed rose in your album, WOW! Could you write down whatcolors you used for the color layers? You wrote down the colors for the first layer in oneof your previous comments. Any others for the other color layer? How did you achievethat magnificent, velvet-like color (and texture) for the inside of the rose (and the same ofsome petals)? Any details of your method you care to share?

With regard to the rose painting, I've added two more colors for the final layer: scarletlake and cadmium red light. Otherwise it's the same process as described in earlier posts(onion and oiling out before each layer). The texture is achieved by the layering methoditself - earlier layers will shine through.

You'll learn best by trying this method for yourself - hope you'll share your work!

Mary, thanks for the answer. I will have to get scarlet lake. - I just looked up thedifference between alizarin crimson and scarlet lake (I have al crimson at home). Thelatter (sc lake) has an orange-ish tint rather than a blue undertone per what I read

Here's the first layer of Bouguereau scumbling - no medium, just paint applied with abrush.

Thanks Mary,

I am too inspired.I even started but am still in the middle. Will definitely completeand upload it.

Had a question. When you say, its just paint and no medium.Isnt mediumimportant.I have heard oil paint without medium tends to crack.. Is that true??

Geetika, it shouldn't crack because there is oil on oil point. The only differencebetween scumbling and glazing is that glazing as a rule is more transparent, andboth are thin layers.

http://www.jessbates.com/pages_tutorials/glazing_scumble.htm I found this articlediscussing glazing and scumbling and the colors to use and all. It was very imformative Ithought.

In my thinking glazing is very "watery" and thiner pigment and transparent. Scumble isalmost like a dry brush with only a small amount of paint on your brush where you justhit and miss across the canvas. Is this a correct thinking

Ro did you get that part right at the end when he talks about uesing a patroliembased varnish isnted of a turps base to fasilatate removal by restorers so that itdosint disturb the paint layers underneeth? makes perfict sens to me and to think imostly ues turps Based stuff its a good thing Liquen isint turps based but patrolimbased but its conpatibal with turps from what i understand its the only pertoliembass that is

iv seen sevral underlayers on patings from the 14 ceture that were not conpleatand they all looked blended to me but you could try it undbelded and see how itturns out i ues a blending brush it looks like a blush brush that people ues to putmakup on with they come in many sizes you can genttly pat the earea to beblended or you can do back and forth like a scumble or you can do swarls i do allof the obove just depends on were i want to move the paitn you can alow uesthose to make a line look strate by moving it in the direction of the line a fewtimes cleans it right up i like to do a vary conpleat loking under pating its mything dont feel you have to falow my lead on this thers a lot of room for difrenttchniques let your artistic instinks be your giude or falow mine its up to you

what is the difference between the imprimatura, the toning of the canvas and theumber layer?

Toning is when we tint the entier canvas the mid value of are copastions it gives astarting point for value in are umber layer its ok if you didnt do it its better if you do butas iv said befor there are many ways to do this the basic steps are a giude only but i wantevery one to stick to it as much as you can untill you get comfterbal then let insparaitionbe your lead this toning layer and umber layer act as a foundation and also a cemicalstabalising layer a Burnt Umber never changes colore no mater how old it is its enert andit sucks in oil from the uper layers and disperses it making them dry faster

what you really get out of this technique altamatly is a total emursion in value realitythats why after you have been doing it for a wile even if you deside to do a sigal layerpainting you will find that your abilitys to creat Light and dark values has increastexsponesualy pluss it really inhanses are undersanding of the cemistry of painting alongwith glazing tech which is starting to becaum a dieing art in the fields of Painting withoils

Damaclese, thanks, so this means that after the gesso and getting he canvasstraight, first you tone the whole canvas, then you do the drawing part? Thencomes the umber layer with the darks and the lights, then the dead layer, then 2color layers - am I correct?

you do the drawing first then the toning the rest of your list is corect

Oh, and with the toning of the canvas. My reading on this lately has said to leavethis as light as you can, and to leave your highlight areas bare canvas so theyshow lighter in the final painting. I guess youre right, everyone seems to have adifferent method in this process and experimentation is the only thing that will inthe end analysis show what works for you and what doesnt. I'm a bit like theAmerican painter who said, "let the next generation get their own art!" I dontreally care if it lasts as long as 500 years :)

Ro said "SHOULD I try to fix it on this layer, or can things like that be fixed onthe gray layer better?"

Hi Roena! Yes, fix it now. Otherwise in years to come, as the paint layers on topbegin to fade, this line will begin to show through. I can't remember the name ofthe work, or even the artist, Mad may know, it is of a horse with 5 legs. The artistmoved the position of one leg later in the painting, and as the years went by, theold leg began to show through and now appears as a 5th leg.

A couple of methods can be used. Scraping carefully with a rounded razor, orusing 800 grit wet sand paper keeping the paper wet with turps or oil to removethis layer at this spot. I had a similar repair but on a larger scale recently of anextra petal on a Lily. The work had been completed, so all layers were present.Scraping and finally sanding to feather the edges helped. After the repairhowever, the paint film is intact, but viewing the painting from an extreme angleshows a slight ghosting of the repaired area.

Any major changes I think are best done in the early stages of a work. Laterchanges just become more difficult.

Hope this helps!

Delmus

Paul, how do you get your image onto your canvasas as they are so large? Do you have aprojector? I'm thinking of rising to the challange of a larger canvas but all the work ofenlarging the picture by hand onto butchers paper then getting it onto the canvasaccuratley is detering me a little. I've thought of buying a projector, does anyone usethem? And any hints on what to look for when purchasing one?

well this is what i think if you are a vary competend artist and can honistly say that youcan draw any thing then i say for the sake of time ues a projector but if you arnt so goodthen you sould do it by hand as you need to develope your skills that being said

if your going to do it on a grand scale then projecting has its draw backs the larger you gothe more dispered the light becomes the harder it is to see the details and its inportent thatyou understand what you are drawing down to a vary sharp edge so do the grid systomethat what i do for vary larg works like my 46x46 theres almost no one no mater how gratethat can do an acurity reproduction on that size you loos perspective so draw out a sireasof lins on your picture by stating in the mideal bothe ways and keep subdeviding yourpicture till you have a grid that covers the entier thing then do the exsact same thing onyour canvase just make sure that both the picture and the canvas have exsactly the samenumber of lins all draws in exsactly the same places then start your drawing by pickingthrew each sector 1 by 1 untill its conpleat dont forget to stand back and look offten youwant to make sure you are staing fathfull then when you finish pick threw the drawingand remove the grid line they can becaome confusing at times if they dont bother you thedont then draw the hold thing over with waterproof ink

thats what i do on the larger ones say 30x40 or bigure thers a picture of me standing infront of Hungry Koi that showes my grid all post it just so you can see forgive the qualityof my photo

I decided I would add some bt.sienna for some color – still in a glaze. I left out a stupidline! If you draw something with lots of lines like the pots and they havecolors…….draw/shade in the colors. Had I have done that then I would have realized Ileft one out. Ok, so I just smear the color all over the area. Take a deep breath and, laterafter supper, I am looking at the photo again, I think I can fix the line and still be able topaint the design.

I remember when I was drawing in that area, that, I was thinking I understood theIndian’s design and just started drawing it. Wrong!

What is going on? Am I the only one having stupid things happen?

I cannot do the onion (it erases my ink lines) and oil out, so I am just doing the oil. I let itset a moment and take a tissue and start to wipe it off. Well……shoot…….it is taking

off the glaze I did yesterday. Ok, so on Indian pots, that might add interest ortexture………but on someone’s face it would be a disaster.

I think I am adding to much medium trying to thin – for lighter values – the Bt Umberinstead of putting on regular paint and just spreading it thinly. ANY IDEAS ORCOMMENTS?

Did you have any of this problems?

Without realizing I missed something I needed to do, I did not do the imprumpra (sp) orthe under drawing. Maybe that is the problem?

just a thought, maybe you're not giving your painting time to dry between the layers?This is a very slow process for me, my gypsy is still tacky from the grey layer and willprobably be another week I think before I'll be game to touch her again. It's hot andhumid here so that is probaby affecting the drying times (no aircon). I'm not overlyworried about it, I can wait.

you know you guys and gals can add Liquen or any other alked based agent to exselaratthe drying normaly when i add liquen i can paint the nexst day or at the lastes two daysexcept when im doing glazing were thers a high % of linssed then it takes about a week todry just a thought

Paul, I was trying Delmus's recipe for the first layer, and now moved on to the "2nd orother" layers of 3T turps, 3 Droppers of Damar varnish and 3 droppers of Linseed oil.///// I find it interesting that I can wipe it off (when I dont want to)..........................So............if noone else is having this problem...........what am I doingwrong? R U adding medium to your paint at the umber layer?

what % liquin do you add to the linseed? You know...1 part to 2 parts etc?

Ro, my unber layer was painted in very leanly just using linseed. I havnt used anythingelse on the gypsy because the turps, damar, linseed mix just gave me shocking headaches

Ro, I used turp, linseed and a little Dammar - just as I read it, well, the ratio is about that,I did not exacly measure it. I also messed up some lines and had to go and make themagain, But I always tried to use the existing shadows, the lights etc. so I don't have toscrape. Can you show where you missed the line? I think you will be able to solve theproblem - some eggnog might help in getting ideas. :-) (kidding... or not?)

Michelle: I copied the main lines of the rose but what happened is that when I was done, Icould not find what was the line of the petal and what was the shadow in my drawing, soI had to go petal from petal and try to find the actual forms - I must admit sometimes Iwas swearing from frustration I could not find where petals met, that matched my petalwith the one on the photo... so it was not easy for me. But then when I started to put the

shadows in section by section, that helped and started to shape up. It is not perfect butmost if them match, more or less...I could not have done the whole thing freehand - Imight try later on just wanted to speed it up. When Mary said that she just sketched thething - it already looked like a perfect drawing, not a sketch! I cannot do that yet.

Ro, I'm so impressed with the work you've done on the patterns - I too recommend to fixany drawing issues you've noticed now, and not later. In the next phase keep an eyeon subtle value shifts to give your pots some volume.

Ah Bernadette, wonderful diligence - just the way I like it - keep it up! There'sabsolutely no reason to rush a beautiful painting, especially when the goal is learning. Onthe dead layer it's particularly important to mark values as accurately as you can, and thenthe color layer will be a piece of cake to handle.

Paul, your painting will be amazing, I can tell! Thank you for posting updates!

i cant paint with turps it makes me sick to my stomic and gives me headacks so this is myrecipy if you decid to ues this do not add any thing ells i ues linsseed 2 parts and 1 partLiquen has almost no smell just that oily oder that linseed has vary light dont ever mix inany damar in if your uesing Liquen or any other alkad base alked/Liquen/Glyked areall patroleam based and damar is reson based they are not conpatibal with Patroleam sinsyou all started with damar i think you mite be stuck untill you get done with this paintingyou could try it but im not sure i have a friend that is a cemist in the art matireals industryand all check with him but being that it is christmas Eve i may not be abal to get back toyou on that untill nexst week it will brobably be ok to paint on top if your layer if it isvary dry so as not to remelt it with this liquen linseed mixsture iv seen a cuple of filmeson YouTube were this artist wipes Lquin on here canvas then paints directly in to that buton the side of the botel it says not to ues more thena 50% liquen ever so i stick to the 1/3but i Liv in the mohovi desert and things dry here vary fast even with out it 10%humidinty most of the time it makes a big diferince what the atmosphire in your home islike cold= long slow drying times warm and dry= short fast drying times how ever dontput you work near a heat sors like a vent or for hevens sake never get it any were near aspace heater or an open flame you will burn you house done

i just wanted to clarafy a cuple of points

the first thing is glazes take along time to dry becaus they are mostly mdeam thisis where the Liquen realy helps a glaze needs to be more then dry to the tuch itnedds to be dry enough to be hard so the you new layers dont melt it there justdeleced that way

you can tell a glaze is dry enough when it dosint feel cool or have that feeling ofdampness that dry paint will have for quite a long time i find even with liquen ittakes at least a week in wet weather it can take up to a month some times if yournot uesing a sicicant ( Thats a drying agent like liquen)

the onon trick neds to be the first thing you do befor you oil out

so its onon wait a few mints then wipe it off then oil out your canvase alwas whenyou are wiping the cerface ues a clean dry lint free cloth do not ues paper towlsthey leave behind fiyber or tolet tisue

Ro the reson the onon smeard your work was that 24 hr is never enough time for aglaze to dry the only sofens pain thats why you have to waite sorry i know its hardto waite when your excited and want to get on with it

this bring up a good point about having at least 3 paintings going at one time soyou can alwas paint when you want to

so after you lay down your toning on the first you start the second drawing thenby the time you get the toning dont on that you start the umber layer of your fistthen wiale thats drying you do the umber on the second and then the drawing andtoning on the therd then you go back and check you forst and if its dry and dointhave that damp feel you start your gray layer i find the gray layer to be a kind ofstop and start aspect of this tehch becaus i often have to let it dry at point so i dontput my hand or arm in wet paint so when you get to one of thos spots were youned to lay your havd or arm gently aganced the canvas but its wet go to the nexstcanvas and start that gray layer and so on and so forthen sorry for spelling that outbut i thought that mabe i hadent been clear so i wanted to make sure every onewas up to speed on this drying and how you work forwerd thing

i know we were just talking about painting and drying times but i wanted to jumpbackwords for a second and retuch on this drawing aspect i cant stress enoughhow inportent the drawing stage is many artits aproch painting as "Lets get thisdrawing down fast and fureas and move on acting as if its relativly uniportent thatyou wil form the more conpleat concept of the painting as you go along STOP!this is bull how can you know where you are going if you dont have an idea in thefirst place of were you are starting

the singal bigest reson paintings fail is that there artist had no clue as to what heor she was doing and why is that becaus they dint do the preplaning necasary toget a clear concept going from day one so again this is were looking at your sujectreally comes in to play by taking this time to really look closly at are subject andto clearly draw out its form we begain a prosses of acquainting are selvs what thesubject as we draw are understanding of the subject grows many times i find thatwhat i thought a subject was about in the first place was conpleatly wrong and idicoverd this by looking at it and drawing it out thers a process of dicovory thatone gose threw it can be exstrdanary it can reveal to us a chang in are aproch of a

suject in other words well have theas begining pitures in are heads of a paintingbut as good as some of us are at vioulising are suject its never a conpleat pictureits a piece here and thers so again by taking the time to really look at your sujectthat concept in are head becaome ever more real

and on a more practical leveal there are alwas things perticulerly in photos thatare exstreamly hard to interpret so as we go and look this updats this picture in arehead and gives us time to think lagicaly about what we are seeing and there in isthe opertonity to discard certin vioul aspects of a photo that are tricks of thecamra and then we can aply are logic to corecting theas tricks of the eye on thecanvas and in doing so you are creating super realsiem aprt from the camra andmore in the vin of real life theres going to be more on this at a later time

Paul ok heres what i did today im not all that happy i had to mix up more colorsas it takes a bunch to do a pating this size and i got this idea to add a bit of bluebut forgot how strong Ultra B is so my colors are a bit off but im thinking it wantmater in the final pating aslow this guy on the left isisnt as musculer as the on theright so it looks a bit difrent to me but hay it is what it isright

I think I'm finally done with the grey layer - it was a bit easier than the umber due to thefamiliarity with the petals :-) but I still took my sweet time. It look most blueish inreality. I let it dry now. I must admit that when I was ready for the layer, I didn't have anyonion as I used all of it for the Xmas cooking and the shops were closed! So I just did theoiling out part and will do the onion next.

How is everyone doing? Did you all gain a few pounds/kilos and ate yourself to bits (as Idid)?

Detti, The small rose bud on the bottom right (((ha ha- that would be my otherright)))) ON THE LEFT. - I can not tell what it is doing. When I checked theoriginal reference photo I see it is a smaller bud with some individual petalsshowing some edge-flip. I really think you need to identify each petal in the graylayer on that one as well as you did on the big rose and the bud on the right. Iknow you said you had a little trouble with it, but you have had a rest now so lookat it again. I actaull went, "Oh, WOW" when the pic opened up. Very nice jobyou have going on here. The sky looks just perfect! P.S. One of the tricks Ilearned in the RT Brain book was to lay a glass on top of the photo and trace itwith a fine line perm.felt tip pen. Now lay the glass on white paper to show upthe drawing. You have turned the image into a 1D pic instead of a 3D. Now justdraw the lines as they appear on the glass. Works great.