depo - jody farmer

Transcript of the Testimony of:

30 (b)(6) Deposition of Paula Deen Enterprises, LLC, et al., by Jody Farmer

Date: November 20, 2012

Case: Lisa T. Jackson v. Paula Deen, et al.4:12-CV-0139

Tom Crites & Associates International, Inc.P.O. Box 9438

Savannah, Georgia 31412Phone: 800-631-3480Fax: 912-233-7777

[email protected]

Case 4:12-cv-00139-WTM-GRS Document 154-7 Filed 04/30/13 of 38

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA SAVANNAH DIVISION

LISA T. JACKSON,

Plaintiff, CIVIL ACTION NO.

vs.

PAULA DEEN, PAULA DEEN 4:12-CV-0139ENTERPRISES, LLC, THE LADY& SONS, LLC, THE LADYENTERPRISES, INC., EARLW. "BUBBA" HIERS, and UNCLEBUBBA'S SEAFOOD and OYSTERHOUSE, INC.,

Defendants._________________________________________________

30(b)(6) Deposition of Paula DeenEnterprises, LLC, The Lady & Sons, LLC, The LadyEnterprises, Inc., and Uncle Bubba's Seafood andOyster House, Inc., through its designatedrepresentative, JODY FARMER, taken by counsel forthe Plaintiff, pursuant to notice and agreement,before Rachael Miller, Certified Court Reporter,at 218 West State Street, Savannah, Georgia,November 20, 2012, at 4:10 p.m.


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3 APPEARANCE OF COUNSEL:4

5 FOR THE PLAINTIFF:6 MATTHEW C. BILLIPS, Esquire7 Billips & Benjamin, LLP8 3101 Towercreek Parkway9 Suite 190

10 Atlanta, Georgia 3033911 (770) 859-075312

13 S. WESLEY WOOLF, Esquire14 408 East Bay Street15 Savannah, Georgia 3140116 (912) 201-369617

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19 FOR THE DEFENDANTS:20 WILLIAM FRANKLIN, Esquire21 KELIN MURPHY, Esquire22 Oliver, Maner, LLP23 218 West State Street24 Savannah, Georgia 3140125 (912) 236-3311

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2 FOR THE DEFENDANTS:3 THOMAS A. WITHERS, Esquire4 Gillen, Withers & Lake, LLC5 8 East Liberty Street6 Savannah, Georgia 314017 (912) 447-84008

9 Also Present: Earl Hiers10

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1 I N D E X

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3 OPENING REMARKS AND STIPULATIONS ------- 7

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7 EXAMINATION

8 By Mr. Billips -------------------- 7

9 By Mr. Withers -------------------- 81

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14 ATTESTATION --------------------------- 85

15 ERRATA SHEET -------------------------- 86

16 CERTIFICATE --------------------------- 87

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1 D O C U M E N T A R Y E V I D E N C E

2 NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE

3 15 March 17, 2010 letter from 10

4 Karl to Paula Re: Dustin's

5 actions

6 16 Uncle Bubba's Seafood & 16

7 Oyster House Policy and

8 Procedures Manual

9 17 Human Resource Issue 36

10 Occurrence July 30, 2010

11 18 August 19, 2010 email 36

12 Subject: From Tanya/Question

13 19 Lisa Jackson Case Notice of 47

14 Deposition (15)

15 20 Lisa Jackson Case Notice of 47

16 Deposition (17)

17 21 The Paula Deen Family of 59

18 Companies: People are a

19 "key" to success!

20

21

22 (Original Exhibits attached.)

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25

Case 4:12-cv-00139-WTM-GRS Document 154-7 Filed 04/30/13 Page 3 of 38

3 (Pages 6 to 9)

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1 D I S C L O S U R E S T A T E M E N T

2 STATE OF GEORGIA:

3 COUNTY OF CHATHAM:

4

5 Pursuant to Article 10.B. of the Rules

6 and Regulations of the Board of Court Reporting of

7 the Judicial Council of Georgia, I make the

8 following disclosure.

9 I am a Georgia Certified Court Reporter.

10 I am not disqualified for a relationship

11 of interest under the provisions of O.C.G.A.

12 9-11-28(c).

13 Tom Crites & Associates International,

14 Inc. was contacted by S. Wesley Woolf, P.C. to

15 provide court reporting services for this

16 proceeding.

17 Tom Crites & Associates International,

18 Inc. will not be taking this proceeding under any

19 contract that is prohibited by Georgia law.

20 This, the 5th day of December, 2012.

21 _________________________

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Page 7

1 MR. BILLIPS: This is the continuation

2 of the deposition of Uncle Bubba's Seafood and

3 Oyster House, Incorporated, Paula Deen

4 Enterprises, LLC, Lady Enterprises, Incorporated,

5 and The Lady & Sons, LLC, pursuant to Rule

6 30(b)(6) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.

7 The witness, I understand, has been

8 designated -- this representative has been

9 designated as to 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 14, 15, 16, 17 and

10 18.

11 MR. FRANKLIN: That is correct.

12 MR. BILLIPS: Okay. This deposition

13 will be taken pursuant to the same stipulations --

14 MR. FRANKLIN: Yes.

15 MR. BILLIPS: -- as previously.

16 MR. WITHERS: Agreed.

17 MR. BILLIPS: Please swear the witness.

18 JODY FARMER,

19 having been first duly sworn, was examined and

20 testified as follows:

21 EXAMINATION

22 BY MR. BILLIPS:

23 Q. Please state your full legal name.

24 A. Jody Wynn Farmer.

25 Q. Okay. And, Mr. Farmer, where are you

Page 8

1 presently employed?

2 A. Paula Deen Enterprises.

3 Q. In what capacity?

4 A. As director of human resources.

5 Q. What is your -- what's your job?

6 A. To develop and implement human resource

7 policies for all of our employees and The Lady &

8 Sons, Uncle Bubba's, Paula Deen Enterprises, Paula

9 Deen Retail and Paula Deen Online.

10 Q. So the -- when did you start working for

11 the defendants?

12 A. October 26th, 2010.

13 Q. And was there anyone in your position

14 who was predecessor?

15 A. Not in my position, although they had

16 brought in some human resource consultants prior

17 to my arrival.

18 Q. And prior to the human resources

19 consultants' arrival, who had performed or

20 attempted to perform the functions of your

21 position?

22 A. It was divided among the general

23 managers of each location, and in certain aspects

24 would have involved either Karl Schumacher or

25 Theresa Feuger from time to time over the course

Page 9

1 of those years.

2 Q. All right. Were there occasions in

3 which Mr. Schumacher received an investigative

4 complaint of alleged harassment or discrimination?

5 A. Yes, there were.

6 Q. And does he presently hold that function

7 for the combined group of companies?

8 A. No, he does not.

9 Q. Do you presently hold that function for

10 the combined group of companies?

11 A. Yes, I do as far as overseeing it.

12 Obviously there's some responsibility from the

13 general managers, so it's handled as a team

14 between them and myself.

15 Q. If the general manager is the person

16 about whom the complaint is being made, would you

17 then be the person having sole responsibility for

18 the investigation?

19 A. I don't know that I would say sole

20 responsibility, because we might seek outside

21 sources but, yes, I would be the person that they

22 are instructed to contact.

23 Q. Okay.

24 A. And any employee can contact me directly

25 if they don't feel like going through the entire


4 (Pages 10 to 13)

Page 10

1 chain of command.

2 Q. What, if anything, can you do if there

3 is a complaint of discrimination made against one

4 of the owners?

5 A. Against one of the owners. It would

6 depend on the owner, but it would definitely get

7 brought to the attention of Paula or the other

8 owners, depending on who -- I don't know what

9 scenario you would be talking about.

10 Q. Right.

11 A. And I guess that they would seek some

12 type of counsel or work through it.

13 Q. Have you had occasion -- strike. Are

14 you aware of occasions where allegations of

15 discrimination and harassment were investigated by

16 Mr. Schumacher?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Okay. And on how many occasions?

19 A. I don't know the answer to that. I can

20 think of a few off the top of my head, but I can't

21 think of the answer.

22 (Exhibit 15 marked for identification.)

23 BY MR. BILLIPS:

24 Q. I'll show you what's been marked as

25 Exhibit 15. Is Exhibit 15 a report of an

Page 11

1 investigation by Mr. Schumacher into an allegation

2 of harassment by Dustin Walls?

3 A. Yes, it is.

4 Q. Okay. And the allegation against Mr.

5 Walls was that he had called an African-American

6 employee a monkey and called other employees a

7 bunch of monkeys; is that correct?

8 A. That is the allegation, yes.

9 Q. And Mr. Walls had the year before been

10 accused of sexual harassment; is that correct?

11 A. I don't believe so.

12 Q. It says, the fourth paragraph down,

13 "Last year there was an issue regarding Nathan and

14 sexual harassment."

15 A. That was his -- one of his direct

16 reports.

17 Q. Okay.

18 A. It was not him sexually harassing

19 Nathan. It was an allegation that Nathan had

20 sexually harassed an SA, a server assistant.

21 Q. Okay. Why was that an issue with

22 Dustin? Because Dustin was aware of it?

23 A. I don't know the answer to that. I

24 mean, by reading what it says that he spoke to

25 everybody and that Dustin manages by fear and

Page 12

1 intimidation. I don't know the answer to that. I

2 wasn't there.

3 Q. If a manager manages with fear and

4 intimidation, that may very well discourage

5 employees from complaining to that manager; would

6 you agree?

7 A. Yes. I would agree.

8 Q. And Mr. Schumacher recommended that

9 Dustin be written up for two reasons, for calling

10 staff monkeys and for managing by fear and

11 intimidation, and lack of respect for others?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Okay.

14 A. And he was, in fact, written up for it.

15 Q. Okay. Is there anyone other than Mr.

16 Schumacher who would have had the responsibility

17 for conducting complaints of harassment or

18 discrimination that related to general managers?

19 A. Well, I'm sorry. Could you repeat the

20 first part of the question?

21 Q. Is there -- prior to your coming

22 onboard, prior to the consultant coming onboard,

23 was there anyone who would have conducted an

24 investigation into harassment or discrimination

25 other than Mr. Schumacher?

Page 13

1 A. I would say that the owners have on

2 occasion.

3 Q. Okay.

4 A. Especially earlier when they were much

5 more hands-on and there on a day-to-day basis.

6 But, yes, Karl had -- I mean, they have turned to

7 him a lot to help with that.

8 Q. Okay. Do these -- let me ask you this.

9 Do the various companies, Paula Deen Enterprises,

10 LLC, Lady & Sons, LLC, Lady Enterprises,

11 Incorporated, and Uncle Bubba's, do they have

12 common control over these kinds of labor issues?

13 A. No.

14 Q. Each of them are separate?

15 A. Each of them are separate.

16 Q. Who has the authority to fire anybody?

17 A. General managers do.

18 Q. Okay. Who has the authority to fire the

19 general managers?

20 A. Either the owners -- I would say just

21 the owners to the best of my knowledge, not being

22 here at that point. But I know they've -- as you

23 said, Karl's participated in that process, so I'm

24 sure he'll make recommendations.

25 Q. And the owners, Paula Deen is an owner


5 (Pages 14 to 17)

Page 14

1 of all of these restaurants, all of these

2 corporations, correct?

3 A. Yes. Correct.

4 Q. So Ms. Deen would have the authority to

5 fire anybody in the company, right?

6 A. Yes. As an owner, I would say she

7 would.

8 Q. Okay. And there is a single -- strike.

9 There is a personnel handbook for each of the

10 companies, correct?

11 A. Correct. There's an employee handbook

12 for each of them.

13 Q. And that handbook was developed by Paula

14 Deen Enterprises in conjunction with this

15 corporate consultant; is that correct?

16 A. No. Not -- I'm not sure which version

17 you're talking about, because there's a lot of

18 them or there's several of them over the course of

19 time. Starting back in 2005, each of the

20 companies have their own separate employee

21 handbooks that they wrote and developed.

22 I suspect they did a little bit of

23 plagiarizing from one another, because they are

24 very similar. That was the responsibility of the

25 general managers to develop. And it wasn't until

Page 15

1 Mackworks came in that they suggested, number one,

2 that we needed to rewrite, and secondly to bring

3 that into a more consolidated effort.

4 Q. Okay. So when Mackworks was consulting

5 with the companies, they put together a

6 consolidated set of personnel policies?

7 A. Actually, they began the process.

8 Q. Okay.

9 A. And I finished it.

10 Q. Okay.

11 A. So I wrote the employee handbooks that

12 we currently have.

13 Q. Okay. So the employee handbooks that

14 you currently have, are they identical or nearly

15 identical?

16 A. I would say substantial parts of them

17 are identical, but they're each one tailored to

18 each location.

19 For instance, the welcome letter for

20 Uncle Bubba's is from Bubba and Paula. Obviously

21 there's things specific to each.

22 Q. Right. They have like different names

23 on them?

24 A. They're got different policies and

25 procedures. Some of the employee benefits are a

Page 16

1 little bit different. They are different, I would

2 say, in my opinion. I'm not sure if that --

3 Q. What employee benefits are different?

4 A. Just the wording on some of the

5 discounts. Some of the restaurants give different

6 types of discounts to -- for instance, Uncle

7 Bubba's employees do not get as big a discount as

8 Lady & Sons and different small things like that.

9 And between Paula Deen Enterprises and

10 the restaurants there's a big difference in the

11 benefits, insurance levels, different carve out

12 groups. There are more managers at Lady & Sons,

13 so there's more people on the management benefits,

14 things like that.

15 Q. Who determines the benefits that will be

16 offered at the various restaurants?

17 A. You mean currently?

18 Q. Currently.

19 A. Myself and Karl Schumacher with the

20 input and the approval of the owners. Obviously

21 they don't want us to.

22 Q. Previously was it Karl Schumacher with

23 the approval of the owners?

24 A. I believe so. For a large part of it.

25 Now, especially areas like 401(K), his area of

Page 17

1 expertise, I think he bid out the insurance plan.

2 Things like sick pay and vacation pay, that's been

3 more driven by the owners.

4 Q. So do all of the employees have health

5 insurance?

6 A. No. They all are offered health

7 insurance.

8 Q. And are all the employees of the various

9 organizations offered health insurance on the same

10 plan?

11 A. Almost. There are a couple of plans

12 that are not offered to some of the companies. So

13 the way that you phrased the question, I think I'd

14 have to say no.

15 But, for instance, a manager at Lady &

16 Sons would be on the same insurance plan as an

17 employee at Uncle Bubba's. Yes. Some of the

18 staff that travels with Paula, some of the

19 different Paula Deen Enterprises employees are on

20 different plans.

21 Q. Okay.

22 A. Another example is 401(K) is totally

23 separate.

24 Q. 401(K) is totally separate between --

25 A. Each company. The only ones that are in


6 (Pages 18 to 21)

Page 18

1 the same are Paula Deen Retail is in the Lady &

2 Sons, and I honestly historically don't know how

3 that happened. There's a separate Paula Deen --

4 Uncle Bubba's 401(K) profit sharing plan that's

5 totally separate from Paula Deen Enterprises and

6 Lady & Sons.

7 Q. And who determined what those plans

8 would be? Would that be Mr. Schumacher?

9 A. I don't know the answer to that because

10 it was in place before I got there. I never

11 asked.

12 Q. Has the company had written policies

13 regarding prohibited discrimination based on race,

14 color --

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. -- gender, retaliation throughout the

17 entire period of January 1, 2005 to the present?

18 A. Yes, they have.

19 Q. And have those -- have there been

20 policies that set out the manner in which

21 complaints of discrimination or harassment would

22 be investigated?

23 A. Yes, sir.

24 Q. Do you have those with you?

25 A. I do.

Page 19

1 Q. May I see them.

2 A. Yes. These are some of the materials

3 that have already been provided. I just brought

4 copies for you.

5 Q. Okay.

6 A. They start on page 4 or on page 4, I

7 believe.

8 Q. Why does this document start on page 4?

9 A. Oh, you know what, I think when I ran it

10 through the photocopier I might have got the pages

11 out of order.

12 MR. FRANKLIN: Yeah. You did.

13 THE WITNESS: Sorry.

14 MR. BILLIPS: Are the other pages in

15 there somewhere?

16 THE WITNESS: The other pages are in

17 there.

18 MR. WITHERS: Yeah. There they are.

19 MR. FRANKLIN: Fooled the lawyer.

20 THE WITNESS: I think I pulled it out to

21 look at that page and forgot to put them back in

22 order when I copied it.

23 MR. BILLIPS: All right. So is -- do

24 you have a copy of this --

25 THE WITNESS: I do.

Page 20

1 MR. BILLIPS: -- for yourself?

2 THE WITNESS: I do.

3 MR. BILLIPS: Could I have it and mark

4 it?

5 THE WITNESS: Sure.

6 MR. FRANKLIN: Is there a page 6 in your

7 group?

8 MR. WITHERS: I've got a copy.


10 BY MR. BILLIPS:


12 Exhibit 16. Is this the current Uncle Bubba's

13 Seafood and Oyster House policy and procedures

14 manual?

15 A. No. But I have the current one.

16 Q. Okay. What is this one then?

17 A. That, to the best of my knowledge, is --

18 according to my interviews with managers, that's

19 the one that was in place back in 2005 I believe

20 was the date on question -- right. From the

21 period January 1st, 2005 until now, it was this

22 employee handbook up until the one that I issued.

23 Q. Okay.

24 A. Just for your knowledge, there's one

25 other that was written and never implemented in

Page 21

1 2009. So I've seen some copies floating around in

2 some of the boxes.

3 Q. All right. Now, do you know when this

4 was first put in place?

5 A. I don't. I don't know the answer to

6 that.

7 Q. Okay. Was it actually put into place

8 sometime in 2010?

9 A. No. No. I know it was prior to that.

10 Q. How do you know that?

11 A. Well, I asked the managers at Uncle

12 Bubba's. Melissa was there from day negative

13 seven, I believe, and it was her best estimate

14 that this was in place in 2005, so I know it was

15 more recent than 2010.

16 Also, Mackworks was working with us in

17 2010. We spoke about the versions of the employee

18 handbooks. I know this was the one in place.

19 Q. On the third page of the document,

20 there's a reference in here that Uncle Bubba's

21 Seafood and Oyster House is composed of specific

22 departments with different functions. The

23 departments are as follows: The first is

24 corporate.

25 A. Interesting.


7 (Pages 22 to 25)

Page 22

1 Q. Do you know what corporate refers to?

2 A. I would assume that in most instances

3 that would mean it would refer to the corporate

4 office, which is --

5 Q. Paula Deen Enterprises?

6 A. -- Paula Deen Enterprises. Uh-huh.

7 Q. It then -- it refers to the next

8 paragraph.

9 A. Lady & Sons.

10 Q. This policy and procedure guide for the

11 Lady & Sons hereinafter referred to as the

12 company. Was this policy and procedure manual put

13 into effect as -- at the same time as the one for

14 Lady & Sons?

15 A. I don't think so.

16 Q. Okay. Do you think this one was copied

17 from Lady & Sons?

18 A. I would guess that's where they started.

19 It looks like a typo that they started with that.

20 Q. The policy against harassment on page

21 4 --

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. -- states that an employee who feels

24 that he or she is the subject of harassment or he

25 or she has witnessed any harassment should

Page 23

1 immediately contact his or her supervisor. Do you

2 see that?

3 A. Yes, I do.

4 Q. Who is the supervisor for the general

5 managers?

6 A. It has varied over the history of the

7 company is my understanding. They obviously

8 report to the owners and the owners could for the

9 most part be the consistent supervisor across the

10 board.

11 There are some points in time that Karl

12 Schumacher and Theresa Feuger have stepped in to

13 oversee the general managers more closely to give

14 them guidance and mentorship.

15 As a matter of fact, on Lisa Jackson's

16 EEOC complaint she lists Theresa as her direct

17 supervisor, so she would have gone to Theresa if

18 she followed it.

19 Q. And Theresa is an employee of Paula Deen

20 Enterprises, correct?

21 A. Correct.

22 Q. So is that an accurate -- did Ms.

23 Jackson accurately identify her supervisor as

24 being Theresa?

25 A. I don't -- I don't know. I don't know

Page 24

1 the answer to that. I wasn't there, so I'm not

2 sure.

3 Q. You're human resources director for the

4 company, correct?

5 A. Correct.

6 Q. And you have prepared yourself to give

7 testimony on the extent to which there was common

8 control over setting terms or conditions of

9 employment, labor relation issues, et cetera?

10 A. Correct.

11 Q. And are you able to tell me -- strike.

12 But you are not able to tell me who Lisa Jackson's

13 immediate supervisor was?

14 A. I have no reason to assume that it was

15 not Theresa. I do know as an example Karl

16 Schumacher has now taken over that -- recently has

17 taken over that responsibility. I think Theresa

18 testified to that May of 2010. I'm guessing. I

19 think that's what she said.

20 Q. Is Karl Schumacher presently supervising

21 the general managers as a formal acknowledgment,

22 formal role?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Okay. And the general managers that he

25 supervises are employed by The Lady & Sons -- or

Page 25

1 excuse me, The Lady Enterprises, Incorporated and

2 Uncle Bubba's Seafood and Oyster House,

3 Incorporated, correct?

4 A. Yes. And in addition to that Paula Deen

5 Retail.

6 Q. And Paula Deen Retail. I keep

7 forgetting that. In the policy on making

8 complaints, the internal complaint review

9 procedure --

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. -- is the internal complaint review

12 procedure, the mechanism by which one would

13 address a complaint of harassment?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Okay.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. So individuals wishing to complain of

18 racial or gender-based discrimination or

19 harassment would be able to do so verbally; is

20 that correct?

21 A. They could initiate that process, but as

22 a part of the investigation we would request a

23 written statement as to what happened.

24 Q. Okay. But the -- the investigation

25 would be initiated upon receipt of the verbal


8 (Pages 26 to 29)

Page 26

1 complaint of harassment, correct?

2 A. Correct. If that's the way it came in,

3 yes.

4 Q. Okay. All right. And which individuals

5 within the Paula Deen organizations have the

6 authority and obligation to receive and either

7 investigate or pass along to higher management

8 complaints of harassment or discrimination?

9 A. Any -- any supervisor who supervises

10 employees.

11 Q. Okay.

12 A. Or as it says, you could go to another

13 member of management. So somebody in management.

14 Q. Now, under the complaint procedure, to

15 whom would an employee address a complaint

16 alleging that Bubba Hiers was engaging in racially

17 or sexually discriminatory conduct?

18 A. I don't know the answer to that.

19 Q. Who, if anyone, at the company would

20 have the authority to take prompt effective

21 remedial action against Mr. Hiers if he were found

22 to have engaged in unlawful harassment or

23 discrimination?


25 Q. And would it be fair to say that you are

Page 27

1 more knowledgeable and more educated about

2 policies of the companies than -- hopefully than

3 just about anybody else here?

4 A. Right.

5 Q. Have you ever received any complaints of

6 harassment or discrimination that were against one

7 of the owners?

8 A. We received the EEOC complaint from Lisa

9 Jackson that has that in it, yes.

10 Q. Okay. Other than that one, have you

11 received any?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Okay. With regard to the one by Ms.

14 Jackson, did human resources conduct any form of

15 investigation of her allegations?

16 A. I believe from the notes -- I don't know

17 the answer to that question off the top of my

18 head.

19 Q. Okay.

20 A. One thing I can answer, if it was

21 investigated by human resources, it would have

22 been by the HR consultants that were helping out

23 at the time. But my understanding is that Karl

24 Schumacher was also involved in that

25 investigation.

Page 28

1 Q. Okay. If there was one?

2 A. Correct.

3 Q. Okay. And you don't know whether there

4 was one?

5 A. I don't know off the top of my head.

6 Q. Have the companies, the Paula Deen

7 companies, provided training to managerial and

8 supervisory personnel regarding the obligation to

9 avoid discrimination?

10 A. Yes. We have recently.

11 Q. And when was that?

12 A. Just a second. Beginning in January of

13 2000 -- well, from January 2005 through

14 October 2010, it would have only taken the form of

15 the employee handbook and training the managers

16 that they're responsible for knowing the policies

17 and upholding the complaint procedure. So it was

18 minimal.

19 In October of 2010, Mackworks conducted

20 management training. The topics were diversity

21 training and conflict resolution. The training

22 was done in two places, down at Ellis Square and

23 Uncle Bubba's.

24 Managers were split into two groups and

25 had to attend one of the two days. And if you

Page 29

1 would like copies, I could give this to you.

2 Q. Okay.

3 A. And then every year in January we close

4 down for maintenance, and so that's usually an

5 opportunity where we train a lot of our employees.

6 January 2011 Mackworks conducted management

7 training. The topics were employee evaluations

8 and coaching, and also the basics of financial

9 analysis. That was done with all the managers

10 from Lady & Sons, Uncle Bubba's, Paula Deen

11 Enterprises and PDR. Each manager was required to

12 attend one day.

13 And then in January of 2012 we used a

14 different company, PST, that's local here. They

15 conducted management training and line-level

16 employee training. The topics were diversity and

17 sexual harassment that all employees had to

18 attend.

19 And then additionally we did one day of

20 management coaching, management training on

21 coaching employees.

22 Q. So prior to October of 2010, you

23 described the training that was provided as being

24 minimal.

25 A. You know, on-the-job training.


9 (Pages 30 to 33)

Page 30

1 Q. Okay.

2 A. Maybe less formal for sure.

3 Q. I think minimal was the word you used.

4 A. That was the word I used.

5 Q. And afterwards, beginning in October of

6 2010, there's been some further training --

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. -- with managers. And then in

9 January 2012, line-level employees were required

10 to attend, correct?

11 A. Correct.

12 Q. Were owners required to attend?

13 A. No, they were not. Although, I know

14 that at least one of the owners did attend.

15 Q. Which one?

16 A. Bubba.

17 Q. Which one did he attend?

18 A. I believe he attended the -- all of the

19 ones in 2012.

20 Q. Okay. Did he attend the October 2010

21 training?

22 A. I don't know the answer to that for

23 sure. I do know that in the documents that we

24 have provided they had the sign-in sheets and the

25 list of employees who attended. I don't know the

Page 31

1 answer to that off the top of my head.

2 Q. What about Dustin Walls? Did he attend?

3 A. Yes. He attended all of these.

4 Q. Okay.

5 A. Is it possible to go back and amend an

6 answer that I gave?

7 Q. Sure.

8 MR. FRANKLIN: Sure.

9 THE WITNESS: It just occurred to me

10 that when you asked the question about whether

11 Lisa Jackson's complaints have been investigated,

12 actually in giving this a little bit more thought,

13 we did not know she had a complaint until she --

14 until Mr. Woolf turned in her keys and her

15 resignation.

16 To the best of my knowledge, there was

17 no investigation done about the EEOC complaints

18 because she was already gone at the time.

19 BY MR. BILLIPS:

20 Q. Well --

21 A. She did -- she did make a complaint

22 about pornography being viewed on a computer.

23 That one was -- was both addressed -- received by

24 Karl Schumacher and he addressed it by having a

25 filter put on the computer right away. And there

Page 32

1 were no further complaints about pornography or

2 anything like that after the fact. So apparently

3 it was effective.

4 Q. Do you have or have you produced

5 documents relating to that complaint?

6 A. No. To the best of my knowledge, it was

7 verbal.

8 Q. Okay. And what was the nature of the

9 complaint?

10 A. The complaint -- let me see.

11 Q. And if you're looking at something that

12 will refresh your testimony, if I could take a

13 look, please.

14 A. Sure. You can have this copy. So Lisa

15 Jackson had reported to Karl Schumacher that

16 pornography had been viewed on the computer in the

17 office at Uncle Bubba's, and reports varied as to

18 whether it was Bubba Hiers who viewed the

19 pornography or whether it was viewed by the

20 kitchen staff late at night.

21 And then Karl instructed our IT firm to

22 install a filter to block access to pornographic

23 sites and no further complaints were ever

24 reported.

25 I got this information from interviewing

Page 33

1 Karl. So I do not know of the written documents

2 where she emailed the complaint that I'm aware of.

3 Q. Did he give you the date --

4 A. No, he did not.

5 Q. -- of this complaint?

6 A. No, he didn't.

7 Q. Did he tell you that Ms. Jackson had

8 alleged that it was Mr. Hiers that was looking at

9 pornography?

10 A. Yes. But he also told me that when he

11 spoke to Bubba that Bubba had said that she had

12 alleged to him it was the kitchen employees, and

13 several people had access to that same computer.

14 There was not a way of finding out from history

15 from what I understand who was on it.

16 Q. Did he indicate whether Mr. Hiers had

17 admitted it?

18 A. No. He did not indicate to me.

19 Q. Okay. Have there been any other

20 complaints about Mr. Hiers, the conduct of Mr.

21 Hiers?

22 A. There was one -- just a second. Let me

23 catch up with where we are. There was a complaint

24 or a concern that was raised about Mr. Hiers in an

25 incident with Big Willy who was William Frazier.


10 (Pages 34 to 37)

Page 34

1 Q. Right.

2 A. And Karl Schumacher did an investigation

3 of that and produced two documents with that

4 investigation. It was one document where it said

5 where he noted that Lisa had called Karl on

6 Wednesday to tell him about an issue that occurred

7 between Bubba and Big Willy about two weeks ago.

8 A male employee asked a female employee to do an

9 inappropriate sexual act that was reported to

10 Lisa. Bubba and Lisa fired the employee on

11 Friday, July 30th, 2010. After the employee was

12 fired, Bubba heard that another employee was

13 present and witnessed the whole thing.

14 Bubba called him in the office and --

15 oops. Sorry -- asked him to tell Bubba what had

16 happened. Big Willy did not want to tell him. He

17 pleaded the Fifth in parenthesis. Bubba said that

18 he had to tell him. Big Willy said the

19 constitution did not force him to tell him. Bubba

20 said some curse words including the only

21 constitution was his constitution.

22 He physically got up and put both hands

23 on Big Willy and shook him while yelling in his

24 face, be a man and tell him. It took several days

25 for this issue to come to Lisa's attention. She

Page 35

1 called Jim Gerard, and I think that Jim said,

2 Bubba needs to apologize to Big Willy, and Big

3 Willy needs to be given a chance to see Jim. Big

4 Willy told Lisa he was scared of Bubba and heard

5 about this issue on Wednesday around 11:15. Then

6 there's a second follow-up email that on Tuesday

7 we had a talk with Bubba regarding Big Will, and I

8 felt I had not done a good job finding the facts.

9 I had relied on Lisa for information.

10 Let's see. Skip down. I can give you this entire

11 document. I don't know if you want me to read it

12 or read it yourself.

13 But essentially, he went back and talked

14 to Big Willy who denied that the whole thing

15 happened. And I'm paraphrasing. Basically, Karl

16 had taken Lisa's -- the first document was taking

17 Lisa's word -- version of what had happened in the

18 incident when he spoke to Big Willy, and he

19 disputed that it ever happened. Bubba -- he

20 didn't dispute that the incident never happened,

21 but that Bubba didn't shake him and he was not

22 scared of Bubba. He even laughed and joked about

23 the size difference between he and Bubba.

24 Q. Right. Who is Jim Gerard?

25 A. He is one of our attorneys.

Page 36

1 Q. Okay. Why would Big Willy need to be

2 given a chance to see Jim?

3 A. I don't know the answer to that. I can

4 infer from that knowing Karl and how he speaks

5 that perhaps he was -- wasn't sure if Jim was

6 going to investigate it or if Karl was going to

7 have time to investigate it.

8 Q. Okay.

9 A. Especially given that's in the first

10 document before he had investigated further.

11 Q. Okay. Was there -- let's mark this.


13 THE WITNESS: That other document I

14 failed to make copies of that.

15 MR. FRANKLIN: That's okay.

16 THE WITNESS: I don't know if you guys

17 need a copy.


19 BY MR. BILLIPS:


21 Exhibit 18. Are these documents prepared and

22 given to you by Karl Schumacher or Schumacher?

23 A. I'm sorry. Did you say were they?

24 Q. Yes.

25 A. Yes.

Page 37

1 MR. BILLIPS: Let's take a five-minute

2 break.


4 (Recess taken from 4:57 p.m. to 5:03

5 p.m.)

6 BY MR. BILLIPS:

7 Q. With regard to the Dustin Walls

8 allegation --

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. -- why was the decision made that Mr.

11 Walls -- that calling African-American staff

12 monkeys only merited a reprimand?

13 A. Well, I wasn't actually involved in the

14 decision, so I can't really speak on that one.

15 Q. Okay.

16 A. My professional opinion is that you

17 would start with, you know, progressive

18 discipline. And usually a good measure of whether

19 the discipline was appropriate or not was did the

20 behavior stop. And we haven't had any complaints

21 about Dustin since then. So it was a very serious

22 reprimand, in my opinion, sit down with Bobby and

23 Jamie and have them give you a final warning. I

24 think Karl was in that as well.

25 Q. Now, according to the memo from Karl,


11 (Pages 38 to 41)

Page 38

1 Dustin had had a problem with managing in that he

2 managed by fear and intimidation; is that correct?

3 A. That's what it says in here, yes.

4 Q. In addition, during the course of the

5 investigation, there were dramatically different

6 versions of what had occurred given by the

7 employees to whom it was said and by Dustin --

8 A. Uh-huh.

9 Q. -- correct?

10 A. Yeah. I don't know if I would

11 characterize it as dramatically, but he said that

12 he used the word monkeying around or monkey

13 business. I forgot which one it was. It was

14 monkeying around and, yeah, so that's definitely

15 got a different connotation.

16 Q. Right. And according to the employees

17 who were present, he actually called Ray a monkey,

18 correct?

19 A. According to Scott Hopke is my

20 understanding, yes.

21 Q. And according to Ray as well?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. So if they are to be believed --

24 MR. FRANKLIN: I'm going to object to

25 that. I know where you're going, but I don't

Page 39

1 think you can ask -- I know you can't ask this

2 witness to assess the credibility --

3 MR. BILLIPS: I'm not.

4 MR. FRANKLIN: -- of other witnesses.

5 MR. BILLIPS: I'm not. I'm not.

6 MR. FRANKLIN: You can't ask him a

7 hypothetical question.

8 MR. BILLIPS: I can ask him a


10 MR. FRANKLIN: I don't believe you can.

11 MR. BILLIPS: But the company -- let me

12 ask a non-hypothetical question then.


14 BY MR. BILLIPS:

15 Q. The company believed Ray and Scott and

16 wrote Dustin up specifically for calling employees

17 monkeys?

18 A. Yes. As one of two items, yes.

19 Q. So a necessary predicate to that finding

20 is a finding that Dustin lied to them during the

21 investigation, correct?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Okay.

24 A. Or they could not distinguish exactly

25 what the truth was.

Page 40

1 MR. FRANKLIN: Once again, you're asking

2 him to assess the credibility -- the credibility

3 of the people who allegedly witnessed this.

4 MR. BILLIPS: No. I'm saying if they

5 had to have done so, would he agree.

6 BY MR. BILLIPS:

7 Q. So was Dustin written up for lying to

8 the company during the course of an investigation

9 into harassment or discrimination?

10 A. No. Not according to this document, no.

11 Q. Okay. Under the company's policies,

12 would lying to the company during the course of an

13 allegation of -- in order to defend yourself from

14 an allegation of harassment or discrimination be

15 grounds for termination?

16 A. It would be -- it would be grounds for

17 discipline.

18 Q. Would it be grounds for termination?

19 A. I can't answer that.

20 Q. Who could?

21 A. Well, I believe -- give me a second.

22 Let me look at the employee handbook at that time.

23 There's a couple of different sections in this

24 employee handbook regarding discipline --

25 Q. Okay.

Page 41

1 A. -- and his conduct. And so on page 10,

2 it says that a written warning would be issued to

3 an employee when misconduct takes place.

4 Q. All right.

5 A. And then continuing on to page 11, it

6 says, disciplinary action would call for any of

7 four steps, verbal warning, written warning,

8 suspension with or without pay, or termination of

9 employment. Any action would depend on the

10 severity of the problem and number of occurrences.

11 Progressive discipline means with

12 respect to most disciplinary problems these steps

13 would normally be followed. The first offense

14 would call for verbal warning. Next offense,

15 written warning. Another offense would lead to

16 suspension. Another offense would lead to

17 termination.

18 Q. Right.

19 A. And it also goes on to say that Lady &

20 Sons recognizes that there are certain types of

21 employee problems that are serious enough to

22 justify suspension, or in extreme situations

23 termination without going through the usual

24 progressive discipline steps.

25 Q. Okay.


12 (Pages 42 to 45)

Page 42

1 A. So there is no written policy to support

2 that it would absolutely have to be termination,

3 if that's the way you're phrasing the question.

4 I've forgotten now.

5 Q. No. I'm saying it would be grounds for

6 termination, for immediate termination that an

7 employee lied to management in order to defend

8 himself from an allegation of harassment or

9 discrimination, right?

10 A. I don't know -- I would disagree. I

11 don't know how it can be grounds for termination

12 when it clearly says that we would go through

13 progressive discipline or, you know, extreme

14 measures would skip to termination.

15 Q. Okay. So you don't consider lying to

16 management about whether you used a racial slur

17 towards subordinate employees to be an extreme

18 circumstance?

19 A. You know, without any kind of audio

20 evidence, I don't know how you can conclude that

21 Dustin was lying. We have two people -- he says

22 he thought he said monkeying around. Is he lying?

23 I don't know. I don't know how you judge his

24 intent. If it was his conviction that's what he

25 honestly said, he's not lying.

Page 43

1 Q. Do you have children?

2 A. I do. I have four.

3 Q. Do you sometimes find that they're lying

4 because their statements are not believable or are

5 contradicted by other --

6 MR. FRANKLIN: Excuse me. He's not here

7 to testify about his family. He's here to testify

8 about this case.

9 MR. BILLIPS: You know what the

10 question's for.

11 MR. FRANKLIN: I know what the questions

12 are, but talking about how he handles things in

13 his personal life is outside the scope of anything

14 he is being offered to testify to, and anything

15 you have asked us to have him or a designee

16 testify.

17 BY MR. BILLIPS:

18 Q. Isn't it true that a human resources

19 professional and a manager often have to make a

20 determination whether an employee is lying in

21 order to determine what discipline to effectuate?

22 A. I don't know if I'd say often.

23 Q. But it does occur, such as in this case,

24 where a decision was made that Mr. Walls did the

25 thing that he denied having done?

Page 44

1 A. That's what they -- the conclusion that

2 Karl and Jamie and Bobby came to.

3 Q. Okay. And do you know if the employees

4 -- well, strike. Mr. Schumacher did learn that

5 the employees were afraid to complain about Dustin

6 because of his strong relationship with Jamie and

7 Bobby?

8 A. According to this document, yes, that

9 was the opinion of Rance and Scott Hopke.

10 Q. That they were afraid to go to Jamie or

11 Bobby about problems concerning Dustin, correct?

12 A. I believe from -- well, let me just read

13 what it says on here. He was hesitant about

14 saying anything. He asked whether I would keep

15 what he said confidential. He said that Dustin

16 called Ray a monkey. He felt that he could not go

17 to Jamie or Bobby about the problem because they

18 have a stronger relationship with Dustin and would

19 side with him. He does not want the wrath of

20 Dustin. And it is the same feeling I got from

21 Rance. That was Karl's words after speaking with

22 him at that time, yes.

23 Q. And Ray, the individual who was the --

24 who was called a monkey by Dustin --

25 A. Yes.

Page 45

1 Q. -- Ray was subsequently fired, correct?

2 A. He was. At a later date.

3 Q. Okay. Allegedly for leaving mushrooms

4 off of a sandwich?

5 A. I believe that's the case, yes.

6 Q. Okay. Which is more serious, leaving

7 mushrooms off of a sandwich or calling your

8 subordinate employees monkeys?

9 A. I would think that the second one would

10 be.

11 Q. Okay. Which do you believe would be

12 more serious, a supervisor lying to management

13 during an investigation or leaving the mushrooms

14 off a sandwich?

15 A. I would think that the first one would

16 be.

17 Q. Okay.

18 A. However, you know, as I said, it says

19 progressive discipline. There's a lot of other

20 factors that go into it.

21 Q. Sure. Have you ever, other than in

22 connection with the allegations -- strike.

23 Have defendants ever received complaints

24 from any source that Mr. Hiers used racial slurs

25 to refer to employees or customers if you have a


13 (Pages 46 to 49)

Page 46

1 document that you would want to share with me that

2 is --

3 A. I've lost track of what numbers we're

4 on. Number 16. Actually, I'll share this with

5 you. The procedures had that happened would have

6 been to -- would have been to report the incident

7 to the supervisor or another member of management.

8 No record exists of any racial slurs committed by

9 Bubba Hiers being reported to Theresa Feuger, Karl

10 Schumacher or Paula Deen or any other member of

11 management.

12 And in interviews that I conducted with

13 those individuals, also they confirmed that they

14 had not heard any verbal complaints as well.

15 Q. Had anyone ever reported to Paula Deen,

16 a supervisor or manager of Paula Deen Enterprises,

17 Incorporated that Mr. Hiers had used racial slurs?

18 A. No.

19 Q. Okay. Same question with regard to the

20 other companies. Anyone in any supervisory or

21 managerial or officer or director or owner

22 position ever received any complaint or any

23 allegation?

24 A. Not that I'm aware of, no.

25 Q. Okay. Now, these documents that you've

Page 47

1 been pulling out, are these --

2 A. Those are my notes that I wrote.

3 Q. Okay. And did you write these up

4 primarily based on your interviews with Karl

5 Schumacher? I think this one is probably with

6 Theresa, Karl and Paula Deen.

7 A. Uh-huh.

8 MR. FRANKLIN: Why don't you for the

9 record identify which exhibit it is so we'll know.

10 MR. BILLIPS: It's actually not been

11 marked. It was item -- his notes. We'll go ahead

12 and mark it.



15 BY MR. BILLIPS:

16 Q. I'll show you Exhibits 19 and 20.

17 Exhibits 19 and 20, are those documents that you

18 put together after speaking to Karl Schumacher?

19 A. Yes. And Theresa and Bubba and other

20 members of management.

21 Q. Okay. That's true with respect to 19.

22 Exhibit 20 --

23 A. Sorry.

24 Q. Exhibit 20 is only --

25 A. Only Karl, yes.

Page 48

1 Q. -- Karl Schumacher. Okay. As a matter

2 of fact, the -- strike.

3 Now, Mr. Schumacher did learn, at least

4 when Ms. Jackson filed her EEOC charge, that Mr.

5 Hiers had allegedly used racial slurs, correct?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. And what, if anything, did he do to

8 investigate that?

9 A. I don't know the answer to that

10 question.

11 Q. Okay. Could you describe for me each

12 and every fact discovered during any investigation

13 that may have been conducted. I know that you

14 know that you can't, but I need to get this on the

15 record.

16 A. Can you rephrase the question.

17 Q. Did he conduct any investigation, he Mr.

18 Schumacher?


20 MR. FRANKLIN: You're asking when the

21 EEOC complaint was filed?

22 MR. BILLIPS: Correct.

23 MR. FRANKLIN: When she was no longer

24 employed?

25 MR. BILLIPS: Correct.

Page 49

1 THE WITNESS: I don't know the answer.

2 BY MR. BILLIPS:

3 Q. Since you don't know whether he

4 conducted an investigation, is it fair to say you

5 can't tell me what facts were learned during such

6 an investigation, if it occurred?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Okay. And it would also be fair to say

9 you don't know what actions, if any, were

10 undertaken to make a record of or remedy such

11 incidents to ensure that they do not reoccur?

12 A. Yes. That's fair.

13 Q. All right. Now, Ms. Jackson was no

14 longer employed by the Paula Deen organizations,

15 but did that eliminate the company's obligation to

16 conduct an investigation into and/or remedy

17 harassment that was occurring in the workplace?

18 A. No. No.

19 MR. FRANKLIN: Objection. You're

20 assuming there was harassment occurring in the

21 workplace.

22 MR. BILLIPS: No. I'm actually not.

23 I'm just asking whether it would eliminate their

24 obligation to do so.

25 MR. FRANKLIN: And I'll object to it's


14 (Pages 50 to 53)

Page 50

1 asking him for a legal conclusion. It's a

2 contention question.

3 BY MR. BILLIPS:

4 Q. Okay. Under the company's policies and

5 procedures, if a former employee provides

6 information indicating to you that they quit their

7 job because they were being harassed, would you

8 still investigate even though they're no longer

9 working there?

10 A. That's not addressed in the employee

11 handbook, so I don't know what the policy would

12 have been. There's obviously no written policy to

13 that effect.

14 Q. Okay. Whether it is in writing, there

15 is a written policy or not, can you tell me what

16 the company's position is? Would -- would you

17 investigate?

18 A. Yes, I would. If it were to happen now,

19 yes.

20 Q. All right. And the reason you would do

21 that is because even though that one employee is

22 gone, there are still others working for the

23 company, right?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And those other employees are -- if the

Page 51

1 harassment was current are at risk of experiencing

2 it as well, correct?

3 A. Correct. Yeah. Hypothetically.

4 Q. All right. And --

5 A. And I'll just reiterate that I don't

6 know that there wasn't an investigation that

7 happened. I don't know if it was conducted by

8 Karl or Jim Gerard.

9 Q. Sure. And if such an investigation was

10 conducted, you don't know what happened or what

11 action was taken or whether any action was taken?

12 A. At that point, no.

13 Q. Okay. So with respect to -- with

14 respect to item number 15 of the 30(b)(6) noticed

15 deposition, it is your testimony as the corporate

16 representative that the company was first informed

17 of the plaintiff's allegations upon receipt of her

18 EEOC charge?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And you cannot otherwise give any

21 testimony because you do not know the answers with

22 regard to whether an investigation occurred, what

23 facts were discovered, whether any actions were

24 taken as a result or what they were?

25 A. No.

Page 52

1 Q. I'm sorry. You can't say any of that?

2 You can't answer those questions? Can you answer

3 those questions?

4 A. For number 15, no, because I could not

5 find any evidence there ever was an allegation

6 made.

7 Q. Well, you received the EEOC charge,

8 right?

9 A. Right.

10 Q. So that was an allegation, right?

11 A. Right.

12 Q. And that was an allegation where there

13 was an obligation to investigate in your

14 understanding and interpretation of what human

15 resources is supposed to do?

16 MR. WITHERS: Objection. Asked and

17 answered.

18 BY MR. BILLIPS:

19 Q. Correct?

20 MR. FRANKLIN: No. He's answered that.

21 MR. BILLIPS: All right.

22 MR. FRANKLIN: He said he looked and

23 there was no evidence of it.

24 MR. BILLIPS: I know. But then he

25 backtracked, so I was going over it again.

Page 53

1 BY MR. BILLIPS:

2 Q. Now, subsequent to the August 19th

3 email from Karl Schumacher where he says he spoke

4 to Bubba again -- not Bubba. What was the guy's

5 name?

6 MR. WITHERS: Will.

7 BY MR. BILLIPS:

8 Q. Will. That he spoke to Will again and

9 Will said that he didn't get threatened or shaken

10 or anything like that.

11 MR. FRANKLIN: Objection.

12 MR. WITHERS: Objection to the extent it

13 mischaracterizes his testimony in terms of again,

14 but go ahead and answer.

15 MR. FRANKLIN: Objection. Yeah.

16 MR. BILLIPS: Yes. I think you're

17 correct. Where he says he spoke to Will and that

18 Will denied being shaken.

19 THE WITNESS: Correct.

20 BY MR. BILLIPS:

21 Q. Has there been any subsequent

22 investigation into whether the event occurred as

23 originally described?

24 MR. WITHERS: Objection to the extent

25 that anything that he might know now arises as a


15 (Pages 54 to 57)

Page 54

1 result of his contact with counsel, it infringes2 upon the attorney-client privilege.3 MR. FRANKLIN: Attorney-client4 privilege.5 BY MR. BILLIPS:6 Q. Let me ask you this. Has the company7 taken any action to -- strike. Did the company8 have cameras installed on the date and time in9 question?

10 A. At which date and time? I'm sorry. I11 don't know which one you're talking about.12 Q. With regard to the incident where Mr.13 Hiers was accused of grabbing and shaking Will.14 MR. FRANKLIN: And cameras installed15 where?16 MR. BILLIPS: Well, I'll get there. So17 if you let me ask those questions.18 THE WITNESS: We did have a camera19 system.20 BY MR. BILLIPS:21 Q. Okay.22 A. You would have to ask Mr. Schumacher,23 but I would assume that that would be one of the24 first things that he would have looked at in an25 investigation is what does the video evidence

Page 55

1 show. Because we do that quite routinely.

2 Back at that time we did not have a very

3 sophisticated system. We've added a camera since.

4 So whether it was on camera or not, I don't know.

5 Q. Okay.

6 A. My opinion is it was not because he

7 would have referenced it.

8 Q. Have you spoken to Will or has Will

9 contacted you about this incident?

10 A. No.

11 Q. Are you aware -- do you know whether

12 Will has since retracted the denial?

13 A. I don't. I don't know or have any

14 knowledge of him retracting the denial.

15 Q. Are you aware of other employees who

16 have come forward and said that they did, in fact,

17 witness it and witness a physical attack?

18 A. No. The only thing I'm aware of was

19 Lisa Jackson reported that Bubba was -- what she

20 seemed to think was his indiscretion to Karl. So

21 she obviously knew how to report it. And they

22 were -- you know, he investigated it.

23 Q. Right.

24 A. Which is when she reported the

25 pornography with Bubba to Karl.

Page 56

1 Q. And during -- during the period in

2 August of 2010, Mr. Hiers was removed from having

3 any -- removed from -- was directed not to

4 interfere with the operations of Uncle Bubba's

5 restaurant. Are you aware of that?

6 A. No. I was not aware of that.

7 Q. Do you know whether he was issued such a

8 directive because of any complaints made by Ms.

9 Jackson to Mr. Schumacher?

10 A. No.

11 Q. Okay. Do you know whether Ms. -- did

12 Ms. Jackson ever inform Mr. Schumacher that Mr.

13 Hiers had engaged in inappropriate conduct,

14 discrimination, harassment or violent conduct in

15 the workplace while impaired?

16 A. Nothing prior to the EEOC complaint. I

17 think it's maybe mentioned in that.

18 Q. Okay. Do you know why Mr. Hiers would

19 have been instructed then in August of 2010 while

20 Ms. Jackson was still working there not to show up

21 impaired?


23 that it assumes facts in evidence and it's posed

24 as a hypothetical. You can go ahead and answer.

25 THE WITNESS: Can you please repeat the

Page 57

1 question. I'm sorry.

2 BY MR. BILLIPS:

3 Q. Were you aware that -- I'll show you an

4 August 18, 2010 email, Exhibit 5, that you see

5 under HR issues, I think number two.

6 A. I see. Yes. No. I wasn't aware of

7 this.

8 Q. Okay. So --

9 A. This is the first time I've seen it.

10 Q. And had Ms. Jackson previously

11 complained to Mr. Schumacher or anyone else that

12 Mr. Hiers had used sexist or sexually demeaning

13 comments?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Go ahead.

16 A. No. The only ones -- well, the only

17 things I'm aware of are the other EEOC claims that

18 indicated Ms. Jackson as being the defendant,

19 seven of those with him. But, no.

20 Q. Okay. Were there -- okay. I'm going to

21 object and move to strike as nonresponsive.

22 My question was about Mr. Hiers using

23 sexist or sexually demeaning comments.

24 A. No. When I interviewed Karl Schumacher,

25 Theresa Feuger and Paula and the other members of


16 (Pages 58 to 61)

Page 58

1 management that I've spoken to over time, no one

2 was aware that she had made that allegation except

3 for the EEOC complaint that came in.

4 Q. Okay. And do you know whether that

5 allegation was ever investigated after the EEOC

6 charge was received?

7 A. I don't personally know.

8 Q. Okay.

9 A. My assumption would be since we

10 investigated all the other EEOC claims we did this

11 one as well.

12 Q. Do you know who would have conducted the

13 investigation?

14 A. No. I don't know for sure. In my

15 experience, my judgment it would be that it would

16 have either been the assistance of the Mackworks

17 consultants, or it was Karl, or it would have been

18 Jim Gerard or at his direction.

19 Q. Okay. Was the company informed that --

20 that Mackworks as a result of its audit and

21 interviews had concluded that Ms. Jackson would

22 have grounds to bring an EEOC complaint against

23 the company?


25 Q. Okay.

Page 59

1 A. I believe it could be, but I don't know

2 off the top of my head. If you have a document,

3 I'd like to look at it.

4 MR. BILLIPS: Here it is. Let's mark

5 this.


7 BY MR. BILLIPS:

8 Q. Have you seen Exhibit 21 before?

9 A. Yes. A long time ago.

10 Q. Okay. Now, the Mackworks, when did this

11 Mackworks report come out?

12 A. I don't know the exact date. I'm trying

13 to see if it's on here anywhere. It doesn't look

14 like it. I do know that it's a part of the

15 interviewing process. It had already been

16 completed when I came onboard. I don't know the

17 exact date. I know they started in May of 2010.

18 Q. Okay.

19 A. That's when they started their work.

20 They continued it after this report was done.

21 Q. Okay.

22 A. I think they began interviewing me in

23 September, so it would have to be somewhere

24 between May and September that they completed

25 this.

Page 60

1 Q. Okay. Now, do you see on page 9 of the

2 report that the three weakest links -- there's a

3 reference limiting employment-related liability.

4 "Perhaps the three weakest links we found during

5 the review process was tolerance of, inconsistent

6 approach to handling inappropriate behavior with

7 no consequences, and lack of management training

8 across the board in management topics such as

9 conflict resolution, diversity training."

10 They then go on to identify a couple of

11 findings on key liability issues, the first being

12 with regard to Dustin Walls.

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. This report was put together after

15 Dustin was written up, wasn't it?

16 A. Let me refer back to the date of Karl's

17 email. He was written up, yes. He was written up

18 on March 11th.

19 Q. Okay. And Dustin -- according to the HR

20 consultants that were hired to come in and address

21 these issues, Dustin didn't cooperate with them

22 and only allowed them 15 minutes to interview him?

23 A. Yes. That's what the report says.

24 Q. Okay. Complaints about Dustin --

25 A. Uh-huh.

Page 61

1 Q. -- ranged from no tolerance of speaking

2 to each other during work, no personal

3 interactions, few face-to-face discussions with

4 other managers on important issues, inconsistent

5 disciplinary action, racial favoritism and very

6 intimidating. Okay. So this is the finding of

7 the audit, the HR audit report after he's written

8 up for these other -- for the monkey issue,

9 correct?

10 A. It is. But it doesn't say what the

11 dates are that occurred. You know, it could be

12 employee opinions that they've felt over the last

13 five years of working under Dustin.

14 Q. Well, Dustin's refusal to cooperate with

15 HR consultants occurred after he was written up,

16 right?

17 A. That did, yes.

18 Q. Now, the next one is Uncle Bubba. It

19 says, Uncle Bubba history. Past inappropriate

20 behavior on company premises. What was the past

21 inappropriate behavior on company premises?

22 A. I don't know.

23 Q. Do you know whether it was allegations

24 of sexually demeaning comments or language or

25 allegations of racial slurs?


17 (Pages 62 to 65)

Page 62

1 A. I would assume not because --

2 Q. Why?

3 A. Because if those had occurred, the

4 general manager would have had the obligation to

5 report them.

6 Q. Okay.

7 A. As she did with the pornography on the

8 computer and the incident with Big Willy.

9 Q. Okay. So you're assuming those didn't

10 occur because she didn't -- would have had to

11 report them?

12 A. It would have been her responsibility as

13 a general manager.

14 Q. You were aware she alleges she did

15 report them, correct?

16 A. In the EEOC claim, yes.

17 Q. Right. Okay. And this says that there

18 was something that was dealt with by senior

19 management.

20 A. Uh-huh.

21 Q. But you don't know what it is, right?

22 A. No. I don't know what they're referring

23 to. They don't spell it out.

24 Q. It then goes on and says, "Continues to

25 have conflict with existing manager." That was

Page 63

1 Ms. Jackson, correct?

2 A. I would assume so.

3 Q. All right. "Current manager probably

4 has enough fodder for her own EEOC complaint

5 should she choose to file.

6 A. Yes. That's what it says.

7 Q. Okay. Doesn't that indicate to you that

8 the problems that she has had with Mr. Hiers fall

9 within the jurisdiction of the EEOC?

10 MR. FRANKLIN: You mean the allegations

11 you're asking him?

12 BY MR. BILLIPS:

13 Q. Yeah. The alleged problems she has had

14 with Mr. Hiers are problems that would fall within

15 the jurisdiction of the EEOC?

16 A. Apparently so, yes.

17 Q. And the EEOC has jurisdiction to

18 investigate allegations of discrimination on the

19 basis of race and sex and national origin, color?

20 A. Uh-huh.

21 Q. They investigate discrimination claims,

22 right?

23 A. Yes. Which they investigated seven

24 times in recent history at Uncle Bubba's prior to

25 this where Lisa Jackson was named.

Page 64

1 Q. Right. Okay. Object and move to strike

2 as nonresponsive.

3 Had Ms. Jackson had any training in

4 avoiding discrimination?

5 A. Not that I'm aware of.

6 Q. Was there any human resources function,

7 other than whatever Mr. Schumacher did, at the

8 time of these seven EEOC charges to which you

9 refer?

10 A. Let's see. No. There would not have

11 been.

12 Q. Okay. And the seven EEOC charges to

13 which you're referring, what are they? Who were

14 the complainants?

15 A. Eddie Holmes. I don't know if I made a

16 copy of this or not. Eddie Holmes on

17 November 29th, 2007 regarding race and named

18 Lisa Jackson. 11/23/2009, Theresa Robinson,

19 sexual harassment. She had reported sexual

20 harassment to the general manager, Lisa Jackson,

21 who chose not to investigate but instructed

22 Theresa to tell Nicholas to shut the fuck up.

23 January 28th, 2009, Ellen Boyce for

24 age discrimination. And Lisa Jackson.

25 January 28th, 2009, Katherine Olney, age

Page 65

1 discrimination. Lisa Jackson's name.

2 February 3rd, 2009, Elaine Thomas.

3 Retaliation and age discrimination. Named Lisa

4 Jackson.

5 March 27th, 2009, Sandra Wolmsley.

6 Retaliation and age discrimination. Named Lisa

7 Jackson. And as recent as June 15th, 2010,

8 Sheldon Irvin, discriminated by race. Named Lisa

9 Jackson.

10 Q. Okay.

11 A. And the next one was Lisa Jackson in

12 October 2010. There's been one since.

13 Q. Who was that?

14 A. Tony Cole. It was race. And he named

15 Louis Ross the general manager on that one.

16 Q. Okay. With regard to Eddie Holmes, Mr.

17 Holmes was fired by Ms. Jackson after he

18 threatened to kill a co-worker; is that correct?

19 A. That's correct.

20 Q. He threatened to go to his car and was

21 in the process of going to his car and said that

22 he was going to get out -- get his gun and shoot

23 him a white boy, correct?

24 A. Correct. I'm not saying that EEOC

25 claims can't be baseless.


18 (Pages 66 to 69)

Page 66

1 Q. Right. Theresa Robinson. Do you know

2 if Ms. Jackson had ever had any training on what

3 an employee should do if they're sexually harassed

4 by a co-worker?

5 A. No. Not other than what's in the

6 employee handbook, but I think that his advances

7 were pretty blatant. He asked for sexual favors.

8 She was uncomfortable. It wasn't just verbal. I

9 mean, it was verbal, but it wasn't just that he

10 was using bad language but actually was asking her

11 for sex.

12 So one would think that since she knows

13 that she can go to Karl Schumacher and other

14 people if she doesn't know how to handle it, she

15 should have reported it like she did with the

16 pornography.

17 Q. Well, didn't --

18 A. Or to Theresa Feuger who she thinks was

19 her supervisor. Either one of them.

20 Q. Well, didn't the employee also have a

21 right to go to them, to go to another member of

22 management?

23 A. If they didn't feel comfortable, but she

24 felt comfortable going to Lisa Jackson,

25 apparently.

Page 67

1 Q. Or if it's not been resolved. Did this

2 employee go to another member of management?

3 A. No.

4 Q. Okay.

5 A. No. Is that what you're asking?

6 Q. The employee did not go to another

7 member of management, did she?

8 A. No.

9 Q. Okay. Now, do you know if Ms. Jackson

10 had ever witnessed the harassment in question?

11 A. No.

12 Q. Do you know if she had personal

13 knowledge of whether the harassment had occurred?

14 A. No, I don't, because she didn't

15 investigate.

16 Q. Do you know whether she had any

17 reasonable basis for believing that it did occur

18 other than the fact that she was -- that she had

19 received that allegation?

20 A. No. But common sense would think that

21 you would look into it and see if there's anything

22 behind it rather than just dismissing it and

23 telling the employee just to tell him to shut the

24 fuck up.

25 Q. Well, is there a -- within the policies

Page 68

1 and procedures manual in effect at the time, the

2 company also had a no tolerance policy for false

3 complaints, correct?

4 A. I don't know the answer off the top of

5 my head.

6 MR. FRANKLIN: Here it is.

7 THE WITNESS: You are correct.

8 BY MR. BILLIPS:

9 Q. Okay. So if the company finds that a

10 complaint is false, the complaining employee could

11 be subject to discipline, correct?

12 A. At that time, yes.

13 Q. All right. Would you agree that that's

14 likely to act as a deterrent to making complaints

15 of harassment or discrimination?

16 A. It's also --

17 MR. WITHERS: Objection. That calls for

18 speculation --

19 MR. FRANKLIN: Right.

20 MR. WITHERS: -- as to what someone

21 knows and what someone else may think.

22 MR. FRANKLIN: And it addresses false

23 complaints.

24 MR. BILLIPS: Go ahead.

25 THE WITNESS: I was just going to say it

Page 69

1 says in the paragraph about harassment though that

2 there would be no retaliation against any employee

3 who reports harassing conduct.

4 BY MR. BILLIPS:

5 Q. Okay.

6 A. And that prompt corrective action will

7 be taken.

8 Q. But you did also tell me that the

9 complaint or the internal complaint review

10 procedure was the procedure by which complaints of

11 harassment were addressed, right?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Okay. The most recent sexual harassment

14 complaint, most recent EEOC charge was?

15 A. Tony -- at Uncle Bubba's for Tony Cole.

16 Q. Yes. Okay. It was alleged by Tony

17 Cole?

18 A. Yes. Alleged by Tony Cole.

19 Q. And what did he allege?

20 A. He alleged that he was discriminated

21 based on race and the fact, if I remember

22 correctly, that he was suspended pending -- he got

23 in an argument with a manager. They told him that

24 he would be suspended until an investigation can

25 take place. I was out of town at the time, and it


19 (Pages 70 to 73)

Page 70

1 was a week later before an investigation was

2 completed.

3 And his allegation was that he was

4 suspended and not allowed to work while a white

5 employee was suspended in another matter and

6 allowed to work until the decision was made. They

7 were vastly different circumstances, but that was

8 his allegation.

9 Q. Okay. But to return to the -- what I

10 was asking you, this report from the consultant

11 does indicate that there has been some form of

12 discrimination or harassment against Ms. Jackson

13 by Mr. Hiers as of the date that they wrote this

14 report.


16 that you're calling for him to conclude what it

17 says about a conclusion as in harassment. It says

18 what it says. You can go ahead and answer.

19 THE WITNESS: Okay. Well, it does -- I

20 mean, the facts that I know about it is it does

21 say that he continues to have conflict with the

22 existing manager. Current manager probably has

23 enough fodder for her own EEOC complaint.

24 I don't know. I don't know if that's

25 inappropriate behavior, if it rises to the level

Page 71

1 -- I mean, obviously their interpretation knowing

2 what they looked at, yes. I don't know because

3 it's not lined out.

4 Q. And this is a company that does human

5 resources consulting for a living, correct?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. And, I mean, they were hired to come in

8 and conduct an assessment of the Company's human

9 resources function and identify human resources

10 problems, right?

11 A. Right.

12 Q. They were acting on behalf of Paula Deen

13 Enterprises when they wrote this document, right?

14 A. Yes. But I don't know what she means by

15 fodder or what they mean by fodder. That could be

16 the seven EEOC claims that she was in the middle

17 of. It may be -- it could be -- you know, I don't

18 know if it's the Big Will incident. She's not

19 black, so I don't know. Apparently it wasn't

20 about race, or if it was, maybe she had knowledge.

21 So I don't know.

22 Q. Do you think that a white person could

23 be discriminated against or feel that they were

24 subject to a hostile work environment because of

25 racist statements and conduct toward black

Page 72

1 employees?

2 MR. WITHERS: Objection to the extent it

3 calls for a legal conclusion, number one. Number

4 two is a hypothetical. And hypotheticals, as

5 Mr. Franklin said, are not proper for a 30(b)(6)

6 examination.

7 MR. BILLIPS: You can answer.

8 THE WITNESS: No.

9 BY MR. BILLIPS:

10 Q. You don't think so?

11 A. No. I don't choose to answer.

12 Q. I wasn't giving you a choice.

13 A. You weren't. Yeah. I could think of

14 hypothetical situations where, yes, if it were --

15 if it were people who were racist then it was

16 pervasive that would be hostile to a white

17 employee.

18 Q. Okay. And if Ms. Jackson's immediate

19 supervisor was Bubba Hiers --

20 A. Theresa Feuger according to her.

21 Q. At some point in time did Mr. Hiers have

22 supervisory responsibility over her?

23 A. As an owner.

24 Q. Okay. And did Ms. -- are you aware of

25 any authority that Theresa Feuger would have over

Page 73

1 Bubba Hiers?

2 A. No. But she would have a direct line to

3 Paula or to the attorneys. If she were aware of

4 something, she would take steps. Could she

5 herself have authority over Bubba as an owner?

6 No. Would she know where to turn and other

7 options for help, yes.

8 Q. What are they?

9 A. What are they? Could go to Paula, could

10 go to an attorney.

11 Q. What's Paula going to do?

12 MR. WITHERS: Objection.

13 MR. FRANKLIN: That calls for

14 speculation.

15 MR. WITHERS: We are going wildly down

16 this road of hypotheticals, which is not proper

17 for a 30(b)(6).

18 MR. BILLIPS: Where is that in the rule?

19 MR. FRANKLIN: If you look at the case

20 law --

21 MR. WITHERS: Yeah.

22 MR. FRANKLIN: -- in the Southern

23 District.

24 MR. WITHERS: It doesn't have -- every

25 item of law is not in the rule. That's a pretty


20 (Pages 74 to 77)

Page 74

1 basic issue. If we want to press it, continue on

2 and we're going to get to a point very quickly.

3 It's not -- it is not my intention to argue. It

4 really isn't.

5 We're going to get to a point very

6 quickly where he's not going to answer these

7 hypotheticals.

8 MR. BILLIPS: Well, see, here's the

9 problem. Your witness keeps giving hypothetical

10 answers to -- hypothetical speeches to explain his

11 answers, so I am entitled to follow up on anything

12 he says.

13 MR. FRANKLIN: We're not going to argue

14 with you.

15 MR. WITHERS: That is plain wrong. Ask

16 your question. We'll make a record. That

17 statement is patently false with respect to what

18 is going on in this deposition. Ask the next

19 question.

20 BY MR. BILLIPS:

21 Q. All right. You have indicated that

22 there were steps that Ms. Jackson could have taken

23 to complain about Mr. Hiers --

24 A. Yes, she did.

25 Q. -- engaging in racially harassing

Page 75

1 conduct.

2 A. The same ones that she used to report

3 the pornography. Either to Karl or to her

4 supervisor, Theresa.

5 Q. All right. So do you know what, if

6 anything, she did to confront Mr. Hiers directly

7 about his conduct?

8 A. What Lisa did to confront him directly?

9 Q. Yeah.

10 A. No.

11 Q. Okay. Had you done anything to -- in

12 preparation to give testimony, have you done

13 anything to determine whether she confronted Mr.

14 Hiers directly?

15 A. I have not interviewed Lisa, no.

16 Q. Okay. Have you interviewed Mr. Hiers?

17 A. I've spoken with Mr. Hiers.

18 Q. Did Mr. Hiers indicate whether she did

19 anything to confront him directly about his

20 conduct?

21 A. Not to the best of my recollection. I

22 do not.

23 Q. Okay. Did Mr. Hiers indicate whether

24 Ms. Jackson had ever complained about him on

25 anything?

Page 76

1 MR. WITHERS: Well, I object to the

2 extent --

3 MR. FRANKLIN: What do you mean by

4 anything?

5 MR. BILLIPS: I'll rephrase.

6 BY MR. BILLIPS:

7 Q. Did Mr. Hiers indicate that Ms. Jackson

8 had ever made any complaints or otherwise

9 expressed opposition to conduct by Mr. Hiers that

10 was sexually harassing, sexually demeaning or

11 racially harassing or racially demeaning?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Did Mr. Hiers indicate whether he was

14 aware that Ms. Jackson had complained about

15 pornography on the computer?

16 A. I assume since -- no. I don't know. I

17 don't know the answer to that.

18 Q. You did not ask him about that?

19 A. I did not ask him about that, ask Karl

20 about that. He was the one who took care of the

21 issue.

22 Q. Okay. Now, let me -- I'm going to reask

23 something that drew an objection earlier. I don't

24 recall if there was an instruction.

25 Since the date that Mr. Schumacher spoke

Page 77

1 to Will about whether he had been attacked by Mr.

2 Hiers, has the company learned of any other

3 information supporting that allegation?

4 A. Not that I'm aware of, no.

5 Q. Okay. Was Lisa Jackson ever disciplined

6 for allegedly discriminating against employees?

7 A. There's nothing in her personnel file.

8 I don't know. I never learned anything.

9 Q. Is there any indication that she was

10 considered by anybody at the company to have

11 engaged in any form of unlawful discrimination or

12 harassment?

13 A. Not that I'm aware of other than the

14 EEOC complaint, but one of which ended up going to

15 mediation.

16 Q. Right. And if the company had -- under

17 the policies in effect at the time, if the company

18 had believed that Ms. Jackson engaged in any form

19 of unlawful discrimination, it would have been

20 obligated to conduct an investigation and to write

21 up the result of that and to take disciplinary

22 action?

23 MR. FRANKLIN: Object to that as a


25 BY MR. BILLIPS:


21 (Pages 78 to 81)

Page 78

1 Q. And to take disciplinary action against

2 Ms. Jackson; is that correct?

3 MR. FRANKLIN: Objection.

4 BY MR. BILLIPS:

5 Q. Is that what the policies require?

6 A. That's what's in the employee handbook.

7 Q. Okay. And nothing of the kind occurred?

8 In other words, she wasn't ever written up, there

9 is no indication in any of the files you've seen

10 that the company ever believed she ever engaged in

11 discrimination; true?

12 A. Not that I'm aware of.

13 MR. BILLIPS: Okay. Let's take a

14 few-minute break. If you would let us have the

15 room.


17 (Recess from 6:06 p.m. to 6:14 p.m.)

18 MR. BILLIPS: Again, we've -- we've got

19 to a point on some of the matters of examination,

20 specifically regarding investigations arising out

21 of the EEOC charges and whether there was any

22 investigation, what if any action was taken that

23 the witness is unable to testify to.

24 I think it's clear Mr. Schumacher would

25 be able to testify to those, or at least I believe

Page 79

1 he would be able to. And we'd ask that you agree

2 to let us inquire of him into whether any

3 investigation occurred at that point and the scope

4 of the investigation, et cetera, as set out in

5 the --

6 MR. FRANKLIN: He'll be here in the

7 morning.

8 MR. BILLIPS: Okay. So do you -- are

9 y'all agreeable to us asking him about 14, 15, 16,

10 17 and 18?

11 MR. FRANKLIN: Whoa. All of a sudden

12 we've opened up Pandora's box.

13 MR. BILLIPS: No. No. No. I'm just

14 talking to the extent that this witness was unable

15 to answer the question, which is essentially what

16 if any investigation -- the investigation

17 conducted after the charge was filed.

18 MR. FRANKLIN: Solely on that EEOC

19 complaint, that's what you're asking me about?

20 MR. BILLIPS: Well, yeah. But if he --

21 if he were to have conducted an investigation into

22 something else or additional allegations as a

23 result of the EEOC complaint -- I guess what I'm

24 saying, let's say that Lisa Jackson said to --

25 MR. FRANKLIN: Objection. Hypothetical.

Page 80

1 MR. WITHERS: We'll just simplify. I

2 think that the answer is that it will be fine for

3 you to ask questions of Mr. Schumacher and,

4 Mr. Franklin, you correct me if I'm wrong, to the

5 extent that you've described investigation that

6 he's unable to tell you about. I can tell you as

7 a practical matter with respect to the

8 investigation that occurs after the charge of

9 EEOC, we're going to claim work product and trial

10 preparation privilege. And we can --

11 MR. BILLIPS: And we'll -- I mean, I'll

12 inquire and find out whether there's a basis for

13 that.

14 MR. WITHERS: So I think that's fine.

15 MR. BILLIPS: All right.

16 BY MR. BILLIPS:

17 Q. Oh, one question. I think I said this

18 at the beginning, but I'm not sure.

19 MR. FRANKLIN: You must have.

20 BY MR. BILLIPS:

21 Q. You are here testifying today as the

22 corporate representative of all of the defendants;

23 is that correct?


25 MR. BILLIPS: All right. Then with that

Page 81

1 understanding, we can be done with this portion.

2 MR. FRANKLIN: Okay.

3 MR. WITHERS: I've got a couple of

4 questions on matters.

5 EXAMINATION

6 BY MR. WITHERS:

7 Q. Mr. Farmer, earlier in the deposition,

8 counsel had asked you about to whom would an

9 employee make a complaint about Mr. Hiers if he

10 were engaged in racial or sexual harassment. And

11 I believe that was addressed as in today's date.

12 In other words, during the current time frame.

13 You said, I believe, you did not know. Is -- is

14 that accurate, you don't know who Mr. Hiers -- who

15 an employee could make a complaint about Mr. Hiers

16 to concerning racial or sexual harassment?

17 A. No, that's not. He could -- an employee

18 could complain to any other member of management

19 or his own team. So as Lisa did going to Theresa

20 and Karl or Karl on various occasions, those would

21 be people he could go to, including Bobby, Jamie

22 and Paula.

23 Q. Well, let me put a point to it. Let's

24 break it down because I think it was broken down

25 in two fashions as well.


22 (Pages 82 to 85)

Page 82

1 During the present time, who would those

2 complaints concerning Mr. Hiers be made about if

3 it were a racial or sexual harassment matter?

4 A. To me.

5 Q. Anyone else?

6 A. They could go to other -- if they didn't

7 feel comfortable coming to me, they could have

8 gone to Karl or Theresa or Paula.

9 Q. And you began work in October of 2010;

10 is that right?


12 Q. Say prior to August of 2010, what is

13 your understanding as to who an employee could

14 make a complaint about Mr. Hiers to if he were

15 engaged in what they perceived to be sexual or

16 racial harassment?

17 A. I would say to Theresa, Karl or Paula.

18 Q. And kind of the third issue, sir, is you

19 testified that you were not aware of who could

20 take action against Mr. Hiers.

21 If he were found to have engaged in

22 sexual or racial harassment, what is your

23 understanding of who would have that

24 responsibility, that ability as it were, to take

25 any action against Mr. Hiers if he were engaged in

Page 83

1 racial or sexual harassment?

2 MR. BILLIPS: I'm sorry. Is this a

3 hypothetical question?

4 MR. WITHERS: Go ahead.

5 THE WITNESS: Paula Deen.

6 MR. WITHERS: Thanks. That's all I've

7 got.

8 MR. BILLIPS: I have some follow-up on

9 that unless you have some.

10 EXAMINATION

11 BY MR. BILLIPS:

12 Q. How would Paula Deen take action against

13 Bubba Hiers? What could she do to him?

14 A. She could alert -- she could seek legal

15 counsel, I assume.

16 Q. Okay. What has that got to do with Mr.

17 Hiers?

18 A. I don't know.

19 Q. What effective action could Paula Deen

20 take against Mr. Hiers?

21 A. And being his sister, I suppose or

22 suspect that she could talk to him.

23 Q. Okay. Other than having a sisterly

24 talk, are you aware of any effective action that

25 Ms. Deen could take against Mr. Hiers?

Page 84

1 MR. FRANKLIN: I object to that because

2 it is asking this witness to make a legal

3 judgment, a legal conclusion. And subsequent to

4 that he can answer, if he can.

5 BY MR. BILLIPS:

6 Q. You can answer.


8 MR. BILLIPS: Okay. Good enough.

9 That's all.

10 (Signature reserved.)

11 (Deposition concluded at 6:21 p.m.)

12

13

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15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

Page 85

1 A T T E S T A T I O N2

3 I, the undersigned, have read the4 foregoing transcript, and, with the exception of5 any corrections specified on the attached6 correction sheet, attest it constitutes a true and7 correct transcription of my testimony given at the8 time and place specified therein.9

10

11

12 (Signed):___________________13 Jody Farmer14

15 WITNESS:____________________16

17

18

19 DATE:_______________________20

21

22

23

24

25


23 (Pages 86 to 87)

Page 86

1 ERRATA SHEET

2 STATE OF GEORGIA )

)

3 COUNTY OF CHATHAM )

4 I wish to make the following

5 changes for the following reasons:

6 PAGE LINE

7 ____ ____ CHANGE:________________________

8 REASON:________________________

9 ____ ____ CHANGE:________________________

10 REASON:________________________

11 ____ ____ CHANGE:________________________

12 REASON:________________________

13 ____ ____ CHANGE:________________________

14 REASON:________________________

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16 REASON:________________________

17 ____ ____ CHANGE:________________________

18 REASON:________________________

19 ____ ____ CHANGE:________________________

20 REASON:________________________

21

22

23 (Signed) ________________________________

24 Jody Farmer

25

Page 87

1 C E R T I F I C A T E

2

3 STATE OF GEORGIA:

4 COUNTY OF CHATHAM:

5

6 I hereby certify that the foregoing

7 transcript was taken down, as stated in

8 the caption, and the questions and

9 answers thereto were reduced to

10 typewriting under my direction; that the

11 foregoing pages 1 through 86 represent a

12 true, complete, and correct transcript

13 of the evidence given upon said hearing,

14 and I further certify that I am not of

15 kin or counsel to the parties in the

16 case; am not in the regular employ of

17 counsel for any of said parties; nor am

18 I in anywise interested in the result of

19 said case.

20 This, the 5th day of December, 2012.

21

22

23 __________________________________

24 RACHAEL MILLER, RPR, CSR, CCR 2807

25


30 (b)(6) Deposition of Paula Deen Enterprises, LLC, et al., by Jody Farmer November 20, 2012Lisa T. Jackson v. Paula Deen, et al.

critesintl.comTom Crites & Associates International, Inc.



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terms 24:853:13

testified 7:2024:18 82:19

testify 43:7,7,1443:16 78:2378:25

testifying 80:21testimony 24:7

32:12 51:1551:21 53:1375:12 85:7

thanks 83:6thats 17:2 18:4

20:18 22:1824:19 26:229:4,14 36:936:15 38:3,1442:3,24 44:145:5 47:2149:12 50:1059:19 60:2363:6 65:1968:13 70:2473:25 78:679:19 80:1480:24 81:1782:11 83:6




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84:9theres 9:12

14:11,17,1815:21 16:1016:13 18:320:24 21:2030:6 35:640:23 45:1950:12 60:265:12 67:2177:7 80:12

theresa 8:2523:12,16,1723:19,2424:15,17 46:947:6,19 57:2564:18,22 66:166:18 72:2072:25 75:481:19 82:8,17

thereto 87:9theyre 15:17,24

28:16 43:350:8 62:2266:3

theyve 13:2261:12

thing 27:2034:13 35:1443:25 55:18

things 15:2116:8,14 17:243:12 54:2457:17

think 10:20,2117:1,13 19:919:20 22:1522:16 24:1724:19 30:335:1 37:2439:1 45:9,1547:5 53:1655:20 56:1757:5 59:2266:6,12 67:2068:21 71:2272:10,13

78:24 80:2,1480:17 81:24

thinks 66:18third 21:19

82:18thomas 3:3 65:2thought 31:12

42:22threatened 53:9

65:18,20three 60:2,4time 8:25,25

14:19 22:1323:11 27:2331:18 36:740:22 44:2254:8,10 55:257:9 58:1 59:964:8 68:1,1269:25 72:2177:17 81:1282:1 85:8

times 63:24today 80:21todays 81:11told 33:10 35:4

69:23tolerance 60:5

61:1 68:2tom 6:13,17tony 65:14

69:15,15,1669:18

top 10:20 27:1728:5 31:1 59:268:4

topics 28:2029:7,16 60:8

totally 17:22,2418:5

towercreek 2:8town 69:25track 46:3train 29:5training 28:7,15

28:20,21,2129:7,15,16,20

29:23,25 30:630:21 60:7,964:3 66:2

transcript 85:487:7,12

transcription85:7

travels 17:18trial 80:9true 43:18

47:21 78:1185:6 87:12

truth 39:25trying 59:12tuesday 35:6turn 73:6turned 13:6

31:14two 12:9 28:22

28:24,25 34:334:7 39:1842:21 57:572:4 81:25

type 10:12types 16:6 41:20typewriting

87:10typo 22:19

Uu 5:1 6:1uhhuh 22:6

38:8 47:760:25 62:2063:20

unable 78:2379:14 80:6

uncle 1:9,18 5:67:2 8:8 13:1115:20 16:617:17 18:420:12 21:1121:20 25:228:23 29:1032:17 56:461:18,1963:24 69:15

uncomfortable66:8

undersigned85:3

understand 7:733:15

understanding23:7 27:2338:20 52:1481:1 82:13,23

undertaken49:10

united 1:1unlawful 26:22

77:11,19upholding

28:17usual 41:23usually 29:4

37:18

Vv 5:1vacation 17:2varied 23:6

32:17various 13:9

16:16 17:881:20

vastly 70:7verbal 25:25

32:7 41:7,1446:14 66:8,9

verbally 25:19version 14:16

35:17versions 21:17

38:6video 54:25viewed 31:22

32:16,18,19violent 56:14vs 1:6

Ww 1:9walls 11:2,5,9

31:2 37:7,1143:24 60:12

want 16:2134:16 35:1144:19 46:174:1

warning 37:2341:2,7,7,14,15

wasnt 12:214:25 24:136:5 37:1351:6 57:660:15 66:8,971:19 72:1278:8

way 17:13 26:233:14 42:3

weakest 60:2,4wed 79:1wednesday 34:6

35:5week 70:1weeks 34:7welcome 15:19went 35:13wesley 2:13

6:14west 1:23 2:23weve 55:3 78:18

78:18 79:12whats 8:5 10:24

20:11 36:2066:5 73:1178:6

white 65:2370:4 71:2272:16

whoa 79:11wildly 73:15william 2:20

33:25willy 33:25 34:7

34:16,18,2335:2,3,4,14,1836:1 62:8

wish 86:4wishing 25:17




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withers 3:3,44:9 7:16 19:1820:8 52:1653:6,12,2456:22 68:1768:20 70:1572:2 73:12,1573:21,2474:15 76:180:1,14 81:3,683:4,6

witness 7:7,1719:13,16,2019:25 20:2,531:9 36:13,1639:2 49:153:19 54:1855:17,1756:25 68:7,2570:19 72:874:9 78:2379:14 83:584:2 85:15

witnessed 22:2534:13 40:367:10

witnesses 39:4wolmsley 65:5woolf 2:13 6:14

31:14word 30:3,4

35:17 38:12wording 16:4words 34:20

44:21 78:881:12

work 10:1259:19 61:270:4,6 71:2480:9 82:9

working 8:1021:16 50:9,2256:20 61:13

workplace49:17,2156:15

wrath 44:19

write 47:3 77:20writing 50:14written 12:9,14

18:12 20:2525:23 33:140:7 41:2,7,1542:1 50:12,1560:15,17,1761:7,15 78:8

wrong 74:1580:4

wrote 14:2115:11 39:1647:2 70:1371:13

wynn 7:24

Xx 4:1

Yy 5:1yall 79:9yeah 19:12,18

38:10,14 51:353:15 63:1372:13 73:2175:9 79:20

year 11:9,1329:3

years 9:1 61:13yelling 34:23youre 14:17

24:3 32:1138:25 40:142:3 48:2049:19 53:1654:11 62:963:11 64:1367:5 70:1679:19

youve 46:2578:9 80:5

Z

003 37:4

06 78:17

11 18:17 87:1110 1:24 5:3 6:5

41:111 35:5 41:5

64:1811th 60:1812cv0139 1:714 7:9 78:17

79:915 5:3,14 7:9

10:22,25,2535:5 51:1452:4 60:2279:9

15th 65:716 5:6,6 7:9

20:9,12 46:479:9

17 5:3,9,16 7:936:12 79:10

18 5:11 7:1036:18,21 57:479:10

19 5:11,13 47:1347:16,17,21

190 2:919th 53:21st 20:21

220 1:24 5:15

47:14,16,1747:22,24

2000 28:132005 14:19

18:17 20:1920:21 21:1428:13

2007 64:172009 21:1 64:18

64:23,25 65:265:5

2010 5:3,10,118:12 21:8,15

21:17 24:1828:14,1929:22 30:6,2034:11 56:2,1957:4 59:1765:7,12 82:982:12

2011 29:62012 1:24 6:20

29:13 30:9,1987:20

2013696 2:1621 5:17 59:6,8

84:11218 1:23 2:2323 64:182363311 2:2526th 8:1227th 65:52807 87:2428th 64:23,2529th 64:17

330 1:16 5:10 7:6

51:14 72:573:17

30339 2:1030th 34:113101 2:831401 2:15,24

3:636 5:9,113rd 65:2

44 1:7,24 7:9

19:6,6,8 22:2137:4

401 16:25 17:2217:24 18:4

408 2:144478400 3:747 5:13,15

55 7:9 37:4 57:457 37:4

59 5:175th 6:20 87:20

66 1:16 7:6,9

20:6 51:1472:5 73:1778:17,1784:11

77 4:3,8 7:9770 2:11

88 3:5 7:981 4:985 4:148590753 2:1186 4:15 87:1187 4:16

99 60:191128 6:12912 2:16,25 3:7


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