constructive comments discussion group updating my bronco h39 - 2012 style

8/22/2019 Constructive Comments Discussion Group Updating My Bronco H39 - 2012 Style

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Updating my Bronco H39 - 2012 styleSeptember 20 2012 at 9:45 AM

Niels Henkema ns (Login jpz4 )Missing-Lynx me mbers

from IP address 62.194.131.10

Some of you may know how frustrating Bronco's H39 can be. When you take a close look almost any part has room forimprovement.

Being fed up with the problems and frustrated by scratch-building parts - something I would have to repeat for 4 or 5 kits - Idecided to take a more modern approach: producing some 3D designs and having them produced by 3D printers.I had been hesitant of the technology for years, but last year I felt it had reached a level where it could come close enoughto traditionally produced items.When I got my first parts I was more than pleased and I hope the photos below are an inspiration to others as well.(I'll be bringing these parts to the Scale Model Challenge in Veldhoven next month, so you can take a look at them yourself).

My first goal was to get some proper bogies. All the available kits have serious problems in construction, size, shape, etc. Thisis the printed design.

I didn't like the spring-system of the kits so I figured I'd try to design an easy fix. Didn't expect it to work, but it actually did.Inside the outer spring even is a second smaller spring.

At first I wanted only the bogies without the wheels, but Erik van Mierlo (you may remember his own corrected Hotchkiss)pointed out the wheels were very poor as well. He was right. (On the left Heller and Bronco, on the right Trumpeter).

Constructive Comments Discussion Group: Updating my Bronco H39 - 2012 style 21/09/2012

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Bizarre differences between the sprockets in the various kits. My own design turned out to have some issues with fitting thekit (and AM) tracks, so I slightly reduced the size later.




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The idler wheels also lacked detail and did not have the characteristic hollow rim (because they area made from a single pieceof plastic). This obviously was not a problem in the 3D printing process.

Idlers

Early engine hatch.




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The assembled bogies. Compare the differences in size, shape and detail.

When assembled, the bogies are fully movable. None of the kits are.

When I was happy with the design of the bogies I shifted my attention to the engine compartment. Bronco got it completelywrong! The gas tank looks like... I've no idea what it is supposed to look like. The engine they include is most likely a Renault

4-cylinder engine, not the Hotchkiss 6-cylinder engine. Again I considered scratch-building everything, but finally decided ondesigning some new parts after all.

Here's a picture of the design in progress (still is).At this moment I've not yet added any drive belts. Unfortunately I still lack proper photos of those parts. The white object isa sheet metal cover that funnels air to the cooling. The metal makes sure fresh air is sucked in through the small grill in theengine hatch. (The large grill is intended to get rid of the warm air.)




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The design as it was sent to the printers...

... and how it finally arrived.




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On the right are the main pieces of the engine.

Oil reservoir is on the left.




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Fan and fan housing.

Radiator on the left.




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Various pieces of the engine. The carburator and air-hose can also be seen.

Gas tank, ammo drums and a Reibel. The 'steering wheel' actually is a part of the engine cooling.




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Reibel. I've added it as a test. I'll be adding placing it in the turret against the 37mm gun when I'm ready.

I hope this can inspire those of you have been considering to design their own parts. I've found it is very rewarding to get theparts you have been wanting for years, but were never available. If you can, give it a try.

Any questions or comments are of course very welcome.Niels

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This messag e has been e dited by jpz4 from IP a ddress 62.194.131.10 on Sep 20, 2012 9:50 AM

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Roman Volchenkov(Login Bizarre616)Missing-Lynx me mbers129.177.222.132

wow, the future of modelling is here? September 20 2012, 9:54 AM

so, next we would be able to upload the scale plans into the system, design the partsbrakedown ourselves and then grow our own sprues?

and manufacturers would be selling ready-to-use plans for printers as apps online.

http://roman-bizarre.blogspot.com/


Niels Henkemans(Login jpz4 )Missing-Lynx me mbers62.194.131.10

re: September 20 2012, 5:56 PM

Thanks Roman.Who knows what the future will bring. Perhaps good quality printers will be available in everyhousehold. Or perhaps it will be like ordering prints of your digital photos. Rather thanprinting the yourself, you could pick them up at any supermarket.

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Jerry Rutman(Login jrutma n53 )Missing-Lynx me mbers64.121.175.128

Those new parts are beautiful and much September 20 2012, 10:49 AM

more accurate. That is a wonderful new tool. I have seen other guys that have had partsmade as well and they are awesome.This whole thing makes me sad though. Probably the last thing that made me unique,as ahuman being,can now be done by anyone with the correct computer knowledge,thus taking thehuman element out of it. Yes,it still takes a human to program the application but can you seemy point? Scratc hbuilding is now obsolete.I always looked at modeling as an art but apparently it will no longer be that in the near future.J




Thanks Jerry and I understand your feelings.It's fortunately still the quality, patience and determination of a scratchbuilder thatdetermines the outcome. Fortunately it is not yet different when it comes to 3D designing.It's a different kind of craftsmanship and while it is less vulnerable for errors, it's still verymuch up to the modeller to get a proper result. The technology places the modeller amongthe various manufacturers and after-market companies. I wonder where this will lead, but itwill undoubtedly have an effect on the modelling community.

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Pat Stansell(Login pstansell)Missing-Lynx me mbers76.109.152.97

Did you know you can sell these? September 20 2012, 11:00 AM

That is, if you want to...

You should seehttp://www.click2detail.com/

They will broker your designs and allow others to purchase them. You get a percentage ofeach sale.

Food for thought, Your excellent efforts deserve reward!

PatMMiR

"My friend does not worry, all are friendly who are fanatical of the steel of the tank."




Hi Pat,

Thanks for the heads up about that website. I'm aware of the selling possibilities and thecompany that printed these parts (Shapeways) offer a similar service.I'll check the other website out as well to see if there are interesting differences.

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Roy A. Schlicht(Login schlichtr)Missing-Lynx me mbers138.163.106.71

That is FAR OUT... September 20 2012, 11:28 AM

Fantastic, when can I get a set? Do one to convert the Bronco H39 to a H35 and I am there.

Roy



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Thanks Roy. Actually you're not the first person to ask me. I've already designed the rubberroad-wheels for the H35. Haven't done any work on the special H35 bogies yet though. But Iwill if people are interested. Should be intereting.The engine deck might be a bit much at this stage though.

Niels

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Roy A. Schlicht(Login schlichtr)Missing-Lynx me mbers76.28.243.12

Well the engine deck... September 20 2012, 10:16 PM

is the major difference between the two. I hope it comes along.

Roy


Greg Harker(Login gharker)Missing-Lynx me mbers64.253.145.90

Cast Them September 20 2012, 12:16 PM

You could have a mold made from these and get resin copies made. I would buy them.

Greg




Hello Greg, I've considered casting them before... but not until ater I had designed them.Casting will not be impossible, but some parts are very complex and making a good mold willbe very difficult.As Pat pointed out earlier in this thread, the printed parts can also be sold through theprinting companies. Since I've no plans of starting a resin company, this might be the easiestway to make them available to others.

Niels

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Greg Harker(Login gharker)Missing-Lynx me mbers64.253.145.90

Re: re: September 20 2012, 6:45 PM

Hi Neils

I was thinking you could sell them to another company as masters. It would keep the costdown going to resin. Either way I am very interested in this if and when it comes tomarket.

Greg


michele novara(Login novarami)Miss in -L nx members

What type of 3D printer ... September 20 2012, 1:46 PM


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79.44.207.168 have you used ?

Thank youmichele




Hello Michelle,I haven't done the actual printing myself. The machines are too expensive for that. I've usedShapeways to have these printed and they were produced in a material they call 'Frosted

Ultra Detail'. It might be worth it to check their website. They have very helpful people anda good forum as well.

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emanuel morales (Zeke)(Login maultier)

Missing-Lynx me mbers186.123.133.44

Amazing work!!! September 20 2012, 2:36 PM

I have some questions for you:

What program of design you use?

What type of printer you use?

What is the "master" to th pinter use for the new parts?

I can seem some 3d printers but never seen one with this type of detail.

your work is really amazing and is nice to know why the model of bronco is ver bad.

cheers.




Hi Zeke, thank you for the nice words.

- I'm using Sketchup. Maybe not the most obvious programm, but it is easy to learn andfree. It's made some improvements since I started to use it in 2005 and is fairly intuitive.

- the master is a .dae or .stl file. Sketchup can produce .dae files and other programs cantranslate those into .stl. That type of file seem to be easier to check for mistakes, which iswhy most of my uploads are done in that format.

- This level of detail cannot (yet) be achieved with affordable printers (home use). I'm notsure what these specific printers cost, but I would guess it would be a couple of hundredthousand dollars. This is why I'm using a company to print them for me. Shapeways foc usses

on individual users and make this technology available for simple guys like me.

I've written a thread in the post on problem with the Bronco, Heller and Trumpeter kits. Ifyou like I could look up the link for you.

Niels

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Brent Watterson(Login Queeg)Missing-Lynx me mbers118.93.121.179

Fantastic work September 20 2012, 4:12 PM

I have access to a 3D printer but not the time or skills with Autocad or similiar to produce thedesigns. Awesome work showcasing what the technology can do within the hobby matey ....


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13/15

cheers

Brent

http://houseofqueeg.wordpress.com/




Hello Brent. Glad to hear you're enjoying these photos.

Skills are not really the problem for most designs. Time is. If I had needed these parts forjust one vehicle I wouldn't have done it, and sc ratched t hem instead. But I wanted to usethem on 4-5 vehicles, which made this a good choice after all. (And I can share them withother people too)

Before using that 3D printer it would be wise to check its resolution. Many are not verydetailed (yet) and it's often better to send your designs to a company that has the latestkind of printers.In a few years this will probably change and the quality of most printers will be enough. Atthis moment we're not there yet though.

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Ian Howes(Login ianhowes)Missing-Lynx me mbers87.164.107.5

Great job September 20 2012, 4:46 PM

That's a great job you've done there. I would like to know what the lot cost as I have also afew parts I want made.

Thanks for showing them.

Ian.




Hi Ian,both sets cost around 30-35 euro, so quite similar to AM sets of a similar content. Let meknow if you have any additional questions and I'll see if I can help out.

Niels

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Dave Coyne(Login davecoyne300)Missing-Lynx me mbers109.255.223.5

So, how much would it cost. September 20 2012, 5:03 PM

Very useful tool but how much did your parts cost is what I'm wondering. I can't see youraverage modeller buying a 3D printer when someone like yourself having particular skills couldbecome a AM producer. Why, when i can buy a kit for 40 euro would i spend thousands, ( in

the future maybe hundreds) on a printer which presumably needs me to also purchase theprinting materials, what ever that may be, plus the cad program. I think this is a really usefultool, but i also think it will be a long time before injection plastic kits go out of fashion.


Niels Henkemans re: September 20 2012, 6:43 PM


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(Login jpz4 )Missing-Lynx me mbers62.194.131.10 Hi Dave, each of these sets costs around 30-35 euros. Not cheap, but still fairly similar to an

AM set and as the designer you decied what's in them.Buying a 3D printer for sets like these is not something an individual should/can do yet. Theprinters you can buy for home-uses, produce a much lower quality. Professional printersstart at tens of thousands of dollars and I believe the printer that produced my parts coastsseveral hundred thousand dollars. Because of the cost but especially the time it takes toprint a single batch (they produce orders from many, many customers at the same time),this technolgoy is not yet ready to mass produce items. They're working on it. But until theyfigure it out, plastic kits will continue to rule the modelling scene.

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Benjamin de Groot(Login benjamin_de_groot)Missing-Lynx me mbers86.82.246.4

You got the engine sorted out too? September 20 2012, 5:39 PM

Great to see that you got so many parts sorted in the end. It looks really amazing!The fan is a thing of beauty!

She`s gonna be superb

History is Cynical




Hi Benjamin,yes I finally figured out most of the parts. The electrical system need to be done as well asall the drive belts. But apart from that I'm very pleased. Finally something that looks like aproper Hotchkiss engine compartment.

Niels

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Mark Pieters(Login TristarNut)Missing-Lynx me mbers76.115.73.75

I've a few questions.. September 20 2012, 7:09 PM

Great job by the way, some Q's come to mind:

1) What kind of plastic (is it even plastic) is this printed from?

2) What kind of glue to you use to assemble the parts?

3) Can you air brush some of those parts (namely those wonderful bogeys) and postpictures please?

The reason I ask that last one is that it's hard to see all the detail with the plastic beingclear like that.

Again, fantastic! Thanks for exploring that technology, I'm sure there are plenty of veryinterested modelers out there following your progress.

~Mark


william carls(Login mr_treadwell)Missing-Lynx me mbers76.23.235.186

re: updating September 20 2012, 7:34 PM

It is so very humbling to find you are light years behind thethe building curve.Beautiful parts. It used to be printed parts needed a lot of clean up


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and filling etc.These look like semi clear parts on a sprue, ready to go. AMAZING

best regards,william


Marlin Henderson(Login MarlinHenderson )Missing-Lynx me mbers75.146.89.195

banding or stepping? September 20 2012, 7:43 PM

Is the layering visible when painted? I have had pieces printed in the past that have an

obvious stepping pattern. Thanks.


David Harmer(Login nzdavidh)Missing-Lynx me mbers114.77.162.202

Amazed September 20 2012, 8:19 PM

Mind blowing stuff, looking forward to seeing how the parts look when painted.

David's Model Pages on Facebook -https://www.facebook.com/modelscale


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