* * * * * * *

PUBLIC MEETING

IN RE: Delta Quarries Superfund Site

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

BEFORE: Leanne Nurse, Community Relations Coord.Martin Kostch, Remedial Project ManagerNancy Cichowicz, GeologistJerry Snyder, CanonieMichael Buchwach, DERNancy Rios, EPA ToxicologistJeffrey Pike, Western PA Section, SuperfundAnn Marie Cullen, Consultant. .

'DATE: Monday, March 4, 1991, at 7:00 p.m.

PLACE: Antis Township Municipal Building909 North Second StreetBellewood, Pennsylvania

AUDIENCEM. Carol, RhodesJohn FrederickJudy StotlerJoe Peelmeier

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Reporter - Debbie Lane Walker

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P R O C E E D I N G S

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3 LEANNE NURSE:

Good evening, Ladies and

Gentlemen. I'd like to welcome you this

evening to the proposed remedial action plan

for the Delta Quarries Superfund Remedial

Site. My name is Leanne Nurse and I'm a

Public Affair Specialist with the U.S.

Environmental 'Protection Agency, and our

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offices are in Philadelphia. I'm also the

Community Relations Coordinator assigned to

this site. As you may or may not know,

there are almost 200 Superfund sites in the

region that covers our area from

Pennsylvania through to West Virginia,

Virginia and the District of Columbia. But

tonight what we want to talk about

specifically is the agency's proposal to

help clean up this particular site.

And I wanted to make several

preliminary comments* The first one is to

apologize for the condition of my voice. I

have the tail end of the flu, so I hope that

everybody can hear me. And so that you

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understand why we have our stenographer

here, and her name is Debbie Walker. And

during the course of the meeting, although

we will all have an opportunity to speak,

I'm going to ask each person to please

identify yourself so that we have an

accurate presentation of your remarks for

the public record. And this will alsoo

become part of the decision making process

for this particular site.

This evening we have people from

the EPA Region Three office. I'd like to

introduce them with your permission. And we

also have representation from the

Pennsylvania Department of Environmental

Resources. So, our most important man of

the hour is Mr. Martin Kostch, who is the

Remedial Project Manager, and he is assigned

to the Delta Quarry site. And his boss is

Mr. Jeffrey Pike, and he's the Section Chief

for the Western Pennsylvania Remedial

Section in EPA.

Also assigned to work on this

site are two young ladies who are helping us

out this evening, Nancy Rios, who is our

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The Acriurn ^ Clearflcld, PA I6S50665-Philadeiprna S.rcct Johnson, PA J59Q ^ g^ Q Q Q ~j £ ,, Norfh

Toxicologist; and Nancy Cichowicz, our

Geologist. And they will also be helpful

and available to help answer any questions

that you have later on in the evening.

From the Pennsylvania Department

of Environmental Resources, we have this

evening Michael Buchwach, and we are

expecting our State Project Manager to

arrive very shortly. I think based on the

time and the fact that you all took time out

of your busy schedules this evening and with

the weather being what it is, we want to get12 * -started as soon as possible.

13Does everyone have a copy of the

handout? We're going to hopefully get an

overhead projector in a few moments, but if

not, then we'll be able to get one to you.

I8 As I had indicated, the purpose

of tonight's meeting is to discuss with you

your opinions and feelings about the

proposed remedial action plan for the Delta

Quarry site. And this meeting, as you may

or may not know, is a required meeting under

the Federal Superfund Program. And many,

_ many avenues of public participation infrj

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j Superfund and I wanted to review some of

those methods right now. Ways that you can

3 let us know how you feel about EPA actions,

4 and also that we can communicate mutually

s and engage in dialogue about what's going on

6 with EPA policy at each of the sites.

7 The most important turning point

0 for a long-term or remedial site iso

- tonight's meeting. And this is the

.- opportunity that you have to tell us how you

feel about our plan, suggestions and

comments that you have. During the public1 2 : „ - - . - - - - - - -

comment period, which will remain open until

March 17th, however, we'll be happy to

receive any written or oral comments from

_ you. And I know that one person has already] 6

._ written in, and we'll be happy to hear from

J8 everyone about your feelings on the proposed

19 plan. Other ways that there are public

participation of our Superfund Program

.,. include the placement of the administrative

record. And those are the documents thatj-j»form the basis for EPA decision making at

this site. So, in each town those documents24

25 are available for public review, and we have

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plan, we have copies of other documents that

have formed the basis for this proposal.

One of the things that is

required in Superfund which allows us,5

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which although for this site, we've done ao

couple of years ago, as soon as the final

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in addition to the summary of the proposed

again, to give a more accurate reflection of

your view is the community relations plan,

decision is made for this site we'll be

revising it by coming back to the community

and conducting interviews to get a new and

updated look at how you feel about the site,

how you feel about EPA activity here in this

particular area.

Once the agency decision is made

for this particular remedial action, then

your comments are going to be summarized as

part of what we call the record of the

decision or the ROD. And you'll see

included in that package, not only tonight's

transcript, but responses to any written or

oral comments that you may have made during

the public comment period. So, it's very

important for you to take advantage of this

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opportunity, both this evening and during

the period of time for the next few weeks.

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Now, in terms of ground rules for

this evening, even though we have a

relatively small meeting, I know that

everyone has many things on their mind.

And, as I said, because we have so many

staff people here, I want to reassure you

that we're willing to stay and to respond to

any of your comments or questions that you

have. But in order to give an accurate

public record, I would like for you to

please identify yourself by name, and if

you'd like to give any affiliation, such as

company or community organization, that's

okay. But we do need your name so that we

can give you proper credit for any remarks

that you have to make this evening.

So, I think we have public

restroom here, and in terms of timing, I'd

like to let the meeting play out as long as

you feel comfortable with. But again

because of the weather, if people feel that

they want to wrap up at a certain point, you

know, feel free to speak up also about that

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. because the staff will be villling to stay as

long as you'd like to contimane to respond

. for any questions that you maay have. So,

I'd like to turn the meeting- over to Mr.

, Kostch because he's going to present the

6 more detailed information aboout the history

of the site and the proposal that we would

like to present and share vitth you this

, evening. And if you could hcold your

J0 questions until after he's ccompleted his

• proposal and his presentation!!, then we'll be

happy to respond to your quesstions. Thank

you very much.33 |„ . MARTIN KOSTCH14 l

. Thank you, Leanre.. Once again my

,, , name is Martin Kostch, and Ir/m the Remedial16 |._ • Project Manager on the Delza Quarry site. I

do have to apologize. I did have some

J9 - overheads to show you, but beecause

, . _unfortunately the overhead haasn't shown up,

I I'm going to have to just :<ii_nd of guide you

through what you have in frcunt of you on the

handout, our copy of the actrual overhead23 |

that I was going to use. Sc_, I will refer

you to certain pages as I go; along.

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Ido have a photograph, a very recent

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the existing site looks like from the air.

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do have some still photos up here in front.

You can look at them later on. And, again,

I think they're very reflective of the

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The Delta Quarry site —— and we

photograph. This was taken September 1990,

so it's, I think, truly reflective of what

If anyone is interested in a ground view, I

current site conditions.

Briefly in terms of the site

history, the landfill began operations in

1964. It continued to be operated as a

landfill until 1985. Based on review of EPA

and Pennsylvania Department of Environmental

Resource files, we have found that

approximately 99.8 percent of all of the

waste that went into the site was classified

as municipal waste. That is your daily

trash. That's municipal waste. .2 percent

was classified as industrial waste. This

industrial waste included things as tramp

oil, discarded solvents, very indiguous

light industrial type material. Nothing

that we would consider to be very hazardous,

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but it is still considered a hazardous

material.

- In 1984, Delta Quarries and

Disposal, the current owner and operator of

the site entered into a consent order with

the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental

Resources to begin with what is known as a

landfill closure plan.

Basically what this order is, is

an agreement between the owners and the

State to put a proper closure plan into

effect so that the site then is protective,12

you know, for the environmental and human13health so that there is no exposure to the

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general public.

Under this closure order, Delta16 'Quarries and Disposal was required to put a

10 four foot soil cap, vegetate the cap once itio

was placed, put in sedimentation basins,

erosion controls and berms to keep the -—20to act as stabilizer for the cover.

All of this work was completed22

with the exception of the installation of23 *what we call gas vents. One of the

24, byproducts of a municipal landfill, and this

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1 is any municipal landfill anywhere in the

world, iis you will produce quantities of

gas. Gsenerally it's methane gas. This is a

4 natural^ result of degradation of household

5 waste. Those vents then are installed to

help enssure the integrity of the caps so

that: thae gas has pathways to escape, instead

of coitirng up through the soil and causingo

any prcoblems.

0 The cap was completed in 1987,

and ir -1986, the Delta Quarries disposal

site vass placed on the National Priorities12List err NPL. That is the list of all

13projecrrs that are considered under the

14Superfunnd Program. In 1987, Delta Quarries

and DIscposal signed a consent order with16

U.S. Z?PA to undertake a remedial

]8 inves-.-gation and feasibility study. This

feasibility study was initiated in 1987, and

was raccently completed in January of 1991.- . - ---

Now, rassically I'm going to go through what

the re^eedial investigation did and what the

feasibility study did.

The remedial investigation

basicallly was the process we go through to

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determine what is on a site, what type of

contaminants we're dealing with, what type

of media are contaminated, such as

4 groundwater, surface water, or are there any

releases into the air of any type of

6 hazardous gases, is the soil contaminated.

This remedial investigation

looked at all of these media. From the

investigation it was determined that because

of the soil cap that was placed on it there

was no contamination on the upper soil

surfaces. In addition, there were no12

significant air releases occurring which13

would be considered hazardous. However, the14 'investigation did determine that the

groundwater had low levels of volatile

organic compounds, VOCs in them. These VOCs

1Q would pose -— could pose a threat to human18

health if consumed over a period of time.

The VOCs that were determined on the site,20and these were only found in monitoring

wells on the site and nowhere else, were22 '

tetrachloroethane; trichloroethene;

chloroform; vinyl chloride; 1,124

dichlorothane; 1,2 dichloroethane and 1,2

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j dichloroethene. Now, I want to emphasize

that these contaminants were only found in

3 monitoring wells that are actually on the

4 site and a perimeter site. We looked at

residential wells that are just beyond the

6 perimeter site and none of the residential

7 wells had any sign of these contaminants in

it. So, currently, there is no threat too

anyone's drinking water based on the results

10 of our investigation.

Anyway, so going through this

process we've identified what compounds in

the groundwater which are of concern. And

we then had a risk assessment done. And the14

risk assessment is done to determine what

potential health impacts may occur from16

]7 people who would consume these products

18 which are in your water over time. The risk

assessment was done, and it was determined

that the risk was calculated, now, this is

going to sound like a strange number, but

the risk was calculated to be 1.4 times 10

to the minus four. What that means is that23

over a certain amount of time, people2425 consuming their water, and that's ingesting

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it, drinking it, using it to cook, using it

to bathe, and they're being exposed to these

contaminants, there is a 1.4 in 10,000

4 : increased chance of cancer occurring from

5 the ingestion of these compounds over a

6 ' certain time period. Under EPA guidance,

_ any risk assessment which shows a risk

g greater than one times ten to the minus six,

9 to one times ten to the minus four,

10 increased cancer risk is considered

jj unacceptable. So, as you can see, since we

j .have a 1.4 times ten to the minus four risk,i. ,I we have exceeded what the acceptable EPA

: guideline is for risk, for cancer risk.

.. In addition, several of the

.. ' compounds that were found in water,16

K particular tetrachloroethane and

]g trichloroethane, were found to be in levels

]9 exceeding the maximum contaminant limits for

the safe drinking water standards that we

-,j , apply to all drinking water across the

22 country.

i Okay. After we computed the risk

assessment and we come up and we determine

* that, yes, there is a potential risk to

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5 because it is not in the residential water.

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at potential future risks, even though it

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doesn't exist now.

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people receiving this water, and I think the

thing that we have to point out, is this

risk right now would be to future users of

the water. This risk does not exist now,

We do not assume though that it cannot some

day migrate to the water. We have to look

As a result, a feasibility study

was done. And the feasibility study is done

to identify various remedial alternatives to

reduce or eliminate this potential risk.

During the feasibility, six different

alternatives were looked at. The first

alternative is known as no action. That

means there will be no further work done on

this site to try to alleviate the risk.

This is done basically as a baseline

assessment. You can compare other

alternatives to it to see what benefit is

gained from implementing any of these other

alternatives. So, while no action is

considered, in this case because we do have

a risk, it would be —- it's not considered

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any further as a recommended alternative.

The next alternative that was

looked at was a no action alternative;

4 however, what would have been done would be

a continuing —— continual monitoring of all

£ of the wells on the site and around the siteo

in terms of the residential wells. This

would be done that, if sometime in the8

future if the migration of contaminants is

determined, a further action may have been

undertaken.

Now, the reason this was looked12

at is, the products that are contained in13

the groundwater over a period of time will _

actually decompose and degrade to what we

would consider non-toxic levels. However,16

there is no way of determining the exact

time frame. It could be ten years, it could1 o

be 30 years. The estimate right now would

be, it would take approximately 75 years for20

all of the compounds to degrade to where

they would no longer be considered to be

hazardous. So, this was one alternative23

that was looked at.24The third alternative we looked

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j at was to provide a public water supply of

Sixth Avenue, because the residential wells

3 which are downgraded from the site would be

4 the ones that are most threatened by this

site. Along with supplying water to these

6 people with a public water supply, also we

7 will continue to monitor to determine if the

compounds within the site were degrading,8

and also access to the site would have been

restricted through fences and also a Deed

restriction which would prevent any type of

further development on the site, which may*2infringe upon the cap. In addition, cap

maintenance would have been included with14

this alternative to make sure that this cap,

existing cap, which is based on the results16

protecting the site from people being

18 exposed to anything that was on the surface,

it is also preventing infiltration of water

which should further reduce the infiltration20

of contaminants into the groundwater. The

cap would have to be maintained to ensure

that this process would continue* So,

therefore, this alternative included cap24. maintenance, access restrictions, such as a

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fence, Deed restrictions to prevent future

development and the inclusion of a water

line up Sixth Avenue to provide water to the

residents.

The fourth alternative was to

- recap the whole site. This site waso

completed in 1987. Since 1987, the

standards have changed, and one proposal was

to go in and to put in what they call a

multi-layered cap, which would have included

an additional liner which would lessen the

infiltration even further into the site,12

which in turn then prevents additional13

contaminants from ever entering the14

groundwater. With this alternative, cap

maintenance was again included and also site16 *

access and Deed restrictions.

The fifth alternative which was

looked at was a groundwater extraction and

air stripping to remove the contaminants.20Basically what this alternative would do is,21a series of wells on the downgradient side

where the water is -— the groundwater is23 *flowing would be basically pumped out to

24remove any water that was underneath the

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site. This water then would be run through

what we call an air stripper, which

basically is a device that causes the

4 contaminants to volatize into the air. The

5 ones that go into the air then would be

6 trapped in a carbon filter, so we wouldn't

7 be releasing these contaminants into the

_ air. They would be trapped within theo

carbon and then this carbon would be then

10 taken to an offsite area where it could be,

the term is, regenerated, which is

basically, the contaminants are removed from

the carbon. They're destroyed at the site

and then the carbon can be re-used.14This alternative then would treat

.. the groundwater which is contaminated,16

J7 therefore, reducing any threat to water or

18 to the groundwater moving offsite and

threatening potentially any downgradient

users. In addition to the extraction wells

. and the air stripping, a fence again would

be included around the site, no further

development would be allowed and the cap

maintenance would also have to be done to24

25 ensure that the cap will continue to serve

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as it is.

The last alternative which was

looked at is an excavation where we actually

4 would have dug up the landfill and looked

5 for the industrial waste that was buried

6 there. This material once found would have

been incinerated destroying the

contaminants. Any material left over would8

have been re-distributed on the site. A new

Q cap would have been placed over it. Again,

a fence would have been put up around the

site to deny access. Deed restrictions

would be done and we would continue to13

monitor the groundwater to make sure that14

the incineration —— or the excavation

incineration process was thoroughly16

effective.

Those are basically the six

alternatives that were looked at. Just

briefly again, the first one was no action,

the second one was no action, but continued

monitoring of the downgradient wells,£f-l*

The third alternative was to23

include a public water supply to monitor the24

groundwater, to restrict access and to

513 Allegheny Street SARA ANN SARGENT "Holhdaysburg. PA 16648 Somerset. PA

COURT REPORTING SERVICE „ c ,c , e„,„..._ 26 South Second StreetThe Atrium 21° Mam Stre« _ Clearfield, PA 16850_ ,R s o o o s 9 ».»„«,

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maintain the cap.

The fourth alternative was to

3 upgrade the cap, again, monitor the

4 groundwater, restrict access and to also

maintain the cap.

6 The fifth alternative was

7 groundwater extraction with air stripping,

access restrictions and monitoring and,o

again, cap maintenance.

excavation of the waste materials,

J0 And the sixth one again is

incinerate it, disposing it back on site,

re-capping it and then placing a fence

around with continued monitoring and also

cap maintenance.

t - Each of these alternatives have16

.- costs associated with them. If you look at

18 your last page, the first one ——

alternative —- the first one is Alternative

A with no action. It had a total project

cost of $109,000. I know you may ask, if

you don't do anything on the site, how do

you have a cost involved? Well, under EPA

guidance any time you leave a contaminant24

source on a site we are required every five

513 Allegheny^* $ARA ANN SARGENT »7 West Mam StreetHoIIidaysburg, PA 16648 Somerset, PA 15501

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6. you have a cost of $109,000.

Alternative B, vbichh is the no8

action, but continual monitorirng even though9

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years to go back and re-exajtinae to Bake sure

that whatever we did was not caausing any

threat to human health. So, viinile you're

not doing anything at the preseent time, in

re-evaluate the site conditicnss. That's why

—— from now on, does have a tcotal project

cost of $750,000.

Alternative C, vhichn was to

supply public water along siarthh Avenue, has

a cost of $1,085,000.

Alternative D, vfcichri would be to

upgrade the cap, monitor and reestrict access

and maintain the cap, had a cosst of

$6,776,000. The groundwater extraction

alternative has a cost of $2,3233,000.

And the last alternaative, the

excavation, incineration and diisposal on the

site with the cap maintenance, access

restrictions and continued noniitoring, has a

cost of $72,000,000.

Now, we looked at alll of these

•

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1number one, if you have a risk you have to

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- take some sort of action. So that

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. environment. Which means, the alternatives

we wanted to look at was something thato

would protect the downgradient users of the

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alternatives, and what EPA guidance says is,

discounted us doing, as we say, no action.

We then looked at things such as, we have to

be protective of human health and the

groundwater.

A third thing we have to look at

is the groundwater itself. One of EPAs

goals is to restore any groundwater source

to its full and beneficial use. So what it

came down to is, we examined all of the

alternatives, we evaluated them for all of

their benefits and determined in EPAs mind

at this time that Alternative E, the

groundwater extraction and air stripping, is

the recommended proposed plan at this time.

The groundwater will be treated,

it will then be returned to either the

treatment plant or the Little Juniata River.

The water then would not pose a threat to

the downgradient users. The cap would be

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maintained to ensure that it will continue

to be effective. Access restrictions will

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site and possibly doing something which

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be placed on the site, such as a fence, and

this would prevent anyone from going on the

could either affect the cap or possibly

expose themselves. And also, Deed

restrictions have been placed on the

property to prevent any future development,

even in the future so that nothing could

ever be done that would infect the

integrity, you know, of the cap which is

there to protect it.

That's pretty much my

presentation. I'm kind of sorry I didn't

have some of the overheads. I could have

pointed things out a little better. What

I'd like to do then is open the floor up for

discussion* I know that Delta Quarries does

want to make a presentation themselves.

Delta Quarries has asked to give a short

presentation of their own, and after that

we'll open up for questions and answers from

the general public.

JERRY SNYDER:

5IJi Allegheny Street ~ " SARA AN>J SARGENT ™~" »7 *« M^in StreetHollidaysburg, PA 16648 Somerset, PA 15501

COURT REPORTING SERVICE _ ff L p, ,, . - 26 South Second StreetThe Atrium , ,Z1° Mam 'ff'rs r- H H n rv Clearfield, PA 16330

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o

. -»-. —— -u__ — — .j — ««___ — . — _

My name is Jerry Snyder. I work

for Caiwnai (phonetic) Environmental Service

Corp. Annd Canoni developed the RI and the

FS repcrU- for the Delta Quarries site. I

have soxee .posters to present. This is a map

of the Deelta Quarries site with the

approximate boundary of the landfill shown

right herne (Indicating) .

Now, as Mr. Kostch mentioned, the

objectivess of the remedy are two fold to

protect hnuman health and the environment. I

think tiesre's no dispute over the fact that

all. of time remedies, potential remedies,

discusssd3 are protective of the environment.

Regarding" the environmental impact, the

remedial investigation report showed that

there VES: no measurable impact on the Little

Juniat= rLtiver. The Little Juniata River

runs alcnng here (Indicating) .

We did find that the Little

Juniat* ?_l<iver was very strongly impacted by

the Alicoona Waste Water Treatment Plant, and

we did neention that if there were any

effects, it certainly would have been masked

by the vesry strong effect of the Altoona

- - -

5 1 i Allegheny Stre SARA AMM ^AftGFNT 137 West Main StreerHollidaysburg. PA 16.*; "• ^ - r ^ Somerset. PA 15501

£^% COURT REPORTING SERVICE „ , L c , cgf^a _, . 26 South Second StreetHaSaS Thc Airium -C Main « .r n H H Q 1* Clearileld, PA 16830^^ 665-Philadc:^.hia Strrr- ~L --— Jonnsio^n. P-Aftw'O U U U J M1 3J North Main Strcct

.-^ ———— ====*: — - —. ..- TL iafc wcr» iireci'S\irea on Apr i IT: 3th,

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l Waste Water Treatment Plant.

2 We also found that there were no

3 adverse ecological impacts on the, what we

4 call, the western wetlands, the wetlands

per billion on September 7th, 1988.

Subsequent sampling of this well revealed

the vinyl chloride was no longer present.

Whatever had been present had most likely

migrated offsite.

And the groundwater flow

direction, which I will get into later, does

generally trend toward the Little Juniata

River. Groundwater flows from the landfill

area toward the Little Juniata River. And

^ we know that by measurements of the

groundwater surface elevations.

And the third time that vinyl

• chloride was measured was in well 10A-8-88,

which is -— okay, that's further south of

8-88, on the southern end of the landfill.'">_ 1 That was measured at 35 parts per billion on

j August 26th, 1989. That was when Canoni did

i their general round of sampling in support

of the remedial investigation.Z'20 - - -

Because vinyl chloride was

discovered, vinyl chloride has the highest

risk of any of the compounds measured. It

really drove essentially the risk

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So, we were requested to go out and

re-sample this well, 10-8-88. It was

re-sampled on January 2nd, 1991, and it was

analyzed with a very sensitive method. The

method can detect vinyl chloride at one-half

part per billion. And in that sampling no

7

10-8-88.

vinyl chloride was subsequently found at

I should, again, getting back to

the risk aspect, well 10-8-88 had vinyl

chloride. This vinyl chloride is going to

move toward the Little Juniata River. The

flow paths will go right toward the pond

next to the Altoona Waste Water Treatment

Plant. ;

There are no residential drinking

water wells that were threatened by that

vinyl chloride. Even though the risk number

was high, it did not represent an actual

risk to any residential groundwater users at

the site. The groundwater wells are over to

the west of the north end of the site. I

should also say, there are residential wells

to the northeast of the site. These are

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665-Philaddph, Stre« _ Joh Og Q Q 0 9 g „ Nonh Main S™

the monitoring that was proposed as part of

flows from here (Indicating) generally

toward the Little Juniata River.

The fourth reason that was given

4 for the selection of Alternative E was that,

the monitoring that was proposec

, Alternative B, one of the othero

alternatives, was not thought to be

protective of human health. Those were the

four basic reasons that were given.9

I'm here to make a statement that

I recommend Alternative B, which involves

maintenance of the clay cap, long-term12

groundwater and surface water monitoring13

over a 30 year period. It would involve

Deed and access restrictions, it would15require the placement of a six foot high,

16high-tensile strength fence around the

perimeter of the site to further limit any

potential contact with the waste material.

There's already a four foot thick cap on top20 2

of this landfill, five to six feet in some

places. And it would also have a provision22

for a five year review of the monitoring* j

data, which means that this allows —— would24 'allow for the assessment of the

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effectiveness of this option of maintenance

of the clay cap, and would allow for future

action if necessary. Right now it's my

opinion that an action such as ground water

pump and treat is not necessary because none

of these wells are currently threatened by

any contamination that exceeds groundwater

34

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or drinking water maximum contaminant8

levels.

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The monitoring —— let me

describe the monitoring that would be part

of Alternative B. It would be two

upgradient monitoring wells, 14-88 and

18-88. This monitoring well (Indicating)

and this monitoring well (Indicating),

upgradient. Again, water is flowing this

way (Indicating) to the top of the drawing,

as you're looking at it, to the west. And

four existing downgradient monitoring wells,

6-85. There is a monitoring well here at

7-85, but it collapsed somewhere between

1988 and '89. It's not usable right now.

8-85, 10-8-8.8 and 20-88, which is this

monitoring well here (Indicating). This is

a critical monitoring well in terms of being

313i Allegheny tact SARA ANN SARGENT '3? Wcsr Main StreetHollidaysburg, PA 16648 Somerset, PA 15501

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The Atrium zw jLrJfSLn H I H fl Clearfield, PA 16830665-Philadelphia Street Johnsiown^tyU (J \ {J \J 3L North M.ia S««t

-an early warning system for any

contamination that might potentially move

from the site.

4 As part of the Alternative B, we

also propose an additional monitoring well,

6 a new monitoring well, to be drilled to be

labeled 23-88, which would be somewhere in

this location (Indicating), between the

landfill and the Crosoli property.

And in addition to the cross

gradient, what we call cross gradient wells,

wells that are not directly downgradient of

the landfill but off to the'side, such as13

M2, area four, and the outfall from the14

western wetlands, which would be in this

vicinity (Indicating) —- I'm sorry, the16

outfall to the Little Juniata River from the

10 western wetlands, which would be in thislo

vicinity (Indicating). And all locations in

this proposal would be sampled

semi-annually, twice a year, for the first

three years. And then years four through 30

would be measured on an annual basis.23We submit -— it's our opinion

that this would be protective of human

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j health and an adequate early warning systen

because monitoring wells exist to provide

3 early warning between the landfill and the

4 residential and domestic water wells, which

5 is the key to the protection of human

.. health.o7 Also, groundwater is moving at

about 70 feet per year, in a velocity ofo

9 approximately 70 feet per year. At 70 feet

10 per year, on this scale, one. inch is 200

.. feet. So that you can see that 70 feet

would be a pretty small distance to move it.

If contamination were detected at this well,13 'there would be plenty of time to implement

- other measures such as providing a public

_ water supply, which is the surest way to16

J7 ensure public health, in my opinion.

18 . I'd like to respond to the four

19 reasons given for selecting Alternative B.

The first, the preference for treatment that

} was stated. We feel that treatment should

not be required if treatment is notfnh

absolutely necessary. I don't believe

treatment is necessary. Just because we

2S have a preference for treatment, I don't

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think makes Alternative E any better than

Alternative B at this point. And I would

explain further as I address the other3

4 points.

The next point, the restoration

of the aquifer to its greatest number of

beneficial uses. Currently the aquifer is

safe and usable for drinking water, and8

achieves all of its stated beneficial uses,

all of its desired beneficial uses.

Beneficial uses have not been violated at

any domestic wells and not been violated at12

any upgradient monitoring wells. I have

another slide to show groundwater flow14direction.

Let's see. This is a map showing16. the —— it's a contour map of the

lg groundwater elevations, just like a contour

map of ground surface that you'll see on a

U.S. quad map. Groundwater flows from high

elevation to low elevation. If you draw a

line, for example, from 10-8-88 where a22 r- F

contamination was measured, this23contamination, which by the way I agree

242_ would present a serious threat to human

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The Atrium 21° Main Strc" Clearficld, PA 16830665-Philadclphia Street Johnstown, PA 15901

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health if it were ingested, goes in tniiis

direction (Indicating) toward the Litttle

Juniata River.

4 So, all of these wells up hhere

5 (Indicating) are upgradient and the geeneral

6 flow direction is across the landfill- and,

7 again, toward the Little Juniata Rivezr.

Most of the contamination that was meaasured

in the monitoring wells is downgradiennt from

the south end of the site. Most of ti ie

contamination was at the south end of the

site. Fortunately, there are no12 _ • -'" '

downgradient water users. There's

Altoona Waste Water Treatment Plant. So,

this is generally the flow direction lis from

,. the site west toward the river.16

._ Okay. Let me get another rcolor

here. I'll describe what was measurecd at

- these wells. Well 6-85, this is a

monitoring well off the northwestern -corner

of the site. Six samples altogether rmave

been taken of this well. Although

organic compounds have been measured aat this

well, when you compare those concentrations

-. against the drinking water maximum

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COURT REPORTING SERVICE..,_.,. ,, - .* r* rt r\ I n I, _': iouznih secoc-c MreetThe Atrium 2l° Main Strccc ft R 5 Q U 1 U H "carsskW. PA !£630

665-PhiIadelphia Street Johnstown, PA 1590T _ . _...~ - -~-.~ - • " - - - • • " - " '

Iwater maximum contaminant level in this

monitoring well. No sample has —— even

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. measured, none exceed drinking water MCLs.

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health.

7-85, this well had —— there8

were seven samples taken from this well.

Some organic compounds were measured.10

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contaminant levels, none exceed the drinking

though there are compounds that have been

They do not present a threat to human

Again, none of these exceeded the drinking

water MCL at this well. Ml line, again some

compounds were detected. No MCL violations.

This well has been sampled since 1983, since

February of 1983. Well 21-88, right here

(Indicating), this well also shows no

violations of drinking water MCLs.

Now, we'll switch colors here and

get into the wells that did show drinking

water violations. Well 8-85 showed vinyl

chloride twice. There were MCL violations

at this well. Well 10-8-88 without question

there was drinking water violations here.

Well 9-88 showed drinking water violations.

So, basically there's your line right there

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(Indicating). To the south of this line

we've seen violations, plenty. To the north

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contaminant levels. Again, nothing —— no

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of the line, we've measured some compounds.

It did not exceed the drinking water maximum

violations of drinking water MCLs were shown

or found in any residential wells.

The third point, the fact thato

vinyl chloride was measured. Vinyl chloride

was measured, as I said, three times in each

one of these two monitoring wells at the

site. When we re-sampled -— the occurrence

of vinyl chloride seems to be sporadic. We

measured it twice in 8-85 and then not

again. We measured it once in 10-8-88 and

then not again this past January when it was

sampled again. Curiously, if we had done

our sampling in January of 1991, and

calculated the risk in 1991, instead of

being 1.4 times ten to the minus four, as we

came up with, vinyl chloride would have

dropped out and it would have been 1.7 times

ten to the minus five, which theoretically

would have put it within the no action

target window established by the EPA. The

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re-sampling showed no vinyl chloride. It's

not being discounted by EPA because there

are three cursors or substances which can

4 transform in the groundwater and turn into

vinyl chloride. That's true, in particular

. TCE or trichloroethene which was measured on6

the re-sampling of 10-8-88 can degrade and

become vinyl chloride. Once again, we're

going to the waste water lagoon next to the

sewage treatment plant. I'm not sure that

that does not represent a threat to human11 *health. 10-8-88 is not upgradient of any

12residential groundwater users.

13What the re-sampling did was to

14confirm the effectiveness of the cap. This

15 *cap on the landfill has been in place

16approximately three years, three and a half.

And what we predicted when we were doing theisinvestigation was that when you place the

cap on the landfill what's going to happen,20

it's going to limit the rainfall that can go21 * * .into the landfill and potentially leak

compounds into the groundwater.

We predicted that after the cap24

is placed it will take it a while for the25 F

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effect to show up, but that the

concentrations that you see in your

monitoring wells will start to drop. Well,

that's exactly what happened in 10-8-88,

Several of the compounds that were detected

went below detection levels. And absolutely

. every compound that was measured before in

this well was then re-measured at a lowero

concentration. That's between August of '89

and January of '91 that that occurred. So

to us, that confirmed that this clay cap is

doing its job. It's working*

In our description of Alternative

B we mentioned that re-sampling would either

confirm —— would allow us to confirm or

refute the effectiveness of the cap. And

the one re-sampling of that seems to have

being performed right now by a soil testing

]g done that. Now, in addition, tests are

laboratory to confirm the permeability,

exactly what the permeability of this cap

material is.22

Monitoring —— the fourth reason23given, monitoring is not considered to be

24. protective. We feel that monitoring of the

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groundwater quality from monitoring wells is

protective of human health in that

. groundwater is only moving at approximately

4 70 feet per year. Even if it's sampled on

an annual basis, that gives you plenty of

, time between when it's detected at thiso

monitoring well (Indicating) or the proposed

monitoring well location, approximately hereo

(Indicating) , and the time that it would

reach any potential groundwater users. We

feel that it is protecting.

Obviously supplying an

alternative water supply of public water is13

the surest way to protect public health.14However, I think public water supply or

implementing of public water supply is16

premature, because public health at this

to point is not threatened or even as we see itlo

in the near future. So, it's none of these

upgradient monitoring wells have shown MCL

violations.

Alternative C that was described22as the public water supply. In summary, I

**J

recommend against Alternative E, groundwater24

pump and treat, because I feel that it's

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i premature. It's not justified by the facts

submitted in the RI and the FS report.

3 Alternative B, maintenance of the clay cap

4 and continued monitoring, would be

protective of human health and the

6 environment. It would allow for an early

7 warning system of any residential

groundwater users and would allow, mosto

importantly, future action, if needed.

10 I'll be supplying formal written

comments to the EPA to this effect within

the public comment period. Thank you.

LEANNE NURSE:13 —————'———————Thank you very much. So, once

again, Ladies and Gentlemen, I'd like to

_ kind of throw the meeting back to Mr.16n Kostch, the EPA Project Manager. But first,

18 I'd like to welcome the ——- one of the Antis

- Township Supervisors, Mr. Amoto and thank

him for joining us. And, again, thank you

for bearing with us, because I know there's

a lot of information to digest.

If we could ask you one more time23 Jto please identify yourself by name so that

24. Debbie can give you proper credit for your

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j remarks, Mr. Kostch will field the

questions, but all of those from both EPA

and DER will be available to help in

4 responding to any questions or comments that

you have.

MARTIN KOSTCH:

Just before we get started, I'd

also like to acknowledge Noreen Chamberlin

(phonetic) who is from the Pennsylvania

Department of Environmental Regulations in

the Harrisburg office. She's the State

Project Officer for the site, so thank you12for coming Noreen. Yes ma'am?13

M. CAROL RHODES:14

I'm sorry. I missed his name.

JERRY SNYDER:16

Jerry Snyder.

Ig M. CAROL RHODES:

Jerry Snyder. My name is M.

Carol Rhodes, Mr. Snyder, I heard you say

at least four times when I started counting,

generally the water flows toward the Juniata22

River and approximately several times how

fast it flows. And that did not at all make

me feel comfortable, because it generally&j

513 Allciheny Street SARA ANN SARGENT 137 Wcsl Main StrcctHollidaysburg. PA 16648 O/UV ™ onivvjj-iN i Somerset. PA 15501COURT REPORTING SERVICE. „, r , c ,-,,~ ii • r- H n U A n 1 I I 26 South Second Street

The Atrium L2I° Mam Strcct A R D U U I I 1 Clearfield. PA 16830665-Philadelphiaret

another way too.

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flows that way. It can generally flow

Ma'am, I don't want to be rude,

but because the meeting is being conducted

by EPA and because we'd like for your

response to the agency's proposal, you know,

Mr. Snyder will be available, I'm sure, to

respond to your comments. But we have our

geologist available to answer your questions

and then Mr. Kostch would be happy to help

us out with that.

M. CAROL RHODES £

Okay. Does it flow toward the

Juniata River?

MARTIN KOSTCH;

Well, I'd hate to use the word

generally, but based on the observation in

the monitoring wells and I've worked in

water a long time, about 13 years, water

always flows downhill. And based on the

water elevations which we take from the

various monitoring wells, and we're looking

at all the wells in general, you would look

at the wells and then draw lines, yes, the

513 Allegheny Street SARA ANN SARGENT »7 West Main StreetHolhdaysburg, PA 16648 Somerset, PA I550I

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665-PhiladeIphia Street T^ ^ n n - , j O 31 North Main Srree,ft K 3 U U I 1 I.

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water does flow towards the Little Juniata

River. However, there is some evidence that

there is a slight split at the north end of

4 the site and it may be flowing toward the

northeast —— or northwestern direction just

a little bit. Now, it's very hard to defineo

the exact well because —— which exact

direction and when because different timesS

of the year, different rainfalls, different

things can affect your groundwater flow.

And there can be some slight variation.

However, in general you're not going to see12

the water suddenly doing a 90 degree turn13

and going in a different direction, because14

that just, you know, violates the laws of

nature where water flows downhill.16NANCY CICHOWIC2;

Let me add one thing. I'm theI o

geologist. I think when he says generally

he doesn't mean that it's suddenly going to20

turn around and go this way (Indicating) .

His generally means that it might go this

way (Indicating) or it might go this way

(Indicating) . I mean, it might deflect in24

that direction (Indicating), but it's not

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513 Allegheny Street CAD A AMKT SARfrFNT *37 West Main StreetHollidaysburg. PA 16648 o^mux-i^i Somerset. PA 15501

COURT REPORTING SERVICE „ . , . , c. _ 26 South Second StreetThe Atrium 21° Clcarfield. PA 16830>

665.PhfladcIphuSt«ei ' J ' l North M=un Strecr

going to go this way (Indicating) ever.

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M. NANCY RHODES:

3 I'm more concerned about north.

4 NANCY XTICHOWICZ:

Okay. Well, in this direction

6know, this much, this slight variation. But

it's not going to turn around and go this8

way (Indicating).

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too (Indicating), that generally means, you

M. NANCY RHODES;

But it could go north?

NANCY CICHOWICZ;

Well, you're talking about a

groundwater divide ——

M. NANCY RHODES;

Yes.

NANCY CICHOWICZ;

—— and that was some place -—

that's not even shown on this map because it

didn't show up in the wells. It's over in

this direction (Indicating), and I think

there was a divide over here (Indicating)

and it could go this way (Indicating). Is

that what you were talking about?

MARTIN KOSTCH:

513i Allegheny Street SARA ANN SARGENT "7 WestHollidaysburg, PA 16648 Somerset, PA 15501

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^^-Philadelphia Street Johnstown Pfl ISA, (J U I I 4 31 North Main Street

Yes.

NANCY CICHOWICZ:4f

But it's still not going to go

this way (Indicating). Because over here

(Indicating) it was —— you know, the

general movement is this way (Indicating).

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MARTIN KOSTCH:

Yes sir?8

JOHN FREDERICK:

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I have like nine questions, so

tell me to shut up when you want me to. My

name is John Frederick and I'm a resident

maybe two miles downstream from this point,

in the Little Juniata River, I'm also in

the Antis Township Action Committee. This

is the -— the landfill was placed on highly

fractured limestone. And my question is, I

understand that we must say generally when

we talk of groundwater movement, but

considering that this is highly fractured

limestone, which is why the landfill was put

there in the first place, how reliable and

how generally can we say that this

groundwater movement is 70 feet per year and

that it has not migrated to lower strata

513 Allegheny Street SARA ANN SARGENT ' 137 West Mam StreetHollidaysbure, PA 1664$ Somerset. PA 15501

COURT REPORTING SERVICE „ e t 1 JC-,_,..£. 26 south Second Mreet

The Atrium , L2I° Mam S"C" Cleared, PA 16830John.tc.rn. PA »»| j g

. beyond that and allowed the material to move

to other places? I guess one of my

3 questions is, I know that the rock formation

4 that the landfill sets on is highly

s fractured limestone. The stuff below it, I

6 think, is a slightly less highly fractured

7 limestone. And what are the —— you know,

what is our understanding of how this stuffo

is moving through that other material below

10 it? In other words, is this stuff able to

move ——? I mean, it sounds very simple

that the stuff is going down through that

rock formation and then going off to the13 *Little Juniata River like it's on an

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impermeable piece of plastic and it's going

to the Little Juniata and that's the only16

- place it's going. But my understanding of

18 this geology is, you know, that it's not

such a straightforward situation. Am I

correct in that?20NANCY CICHOWICZ;

Well, we have seen some fractures

in the boring logs that were drilled to* jinstall the wells. When he's talking about

24, a groundwater flow movement of 70 feet per

513 Allegheny Street SARA ANN SARGENT ^ West Main StreetHollidaysburg, PA 16648 , Somerset, PA 15501

COURT REPORTING SERVICE „ f,._ w • c 2<S South Second Street

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horizontal movement. The wells that we have

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indication that there's any movement, you8

know, of contaminants out of this picture.

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year, he's talking about a lot of movement.

Because —— well, once you're in the water

table, the movement is lateral and it's not

—— it doesn't continue downward. It's a

put in, you know, have contoured as this

water table, and we don't have any

JOHN FREDERICK;

How deep are the test wells? Are

they a considerable variety of depth?

NANCY CICHOWICZ;

Yeah. In this —— well, let's

see. In this area they are very shallow,

less than 50 feet.

JOHN FREDERICK:

I'm sorry, less than ——?

NANCY CICHOWICZ;

Less than 50 feet in the top

because we're on the hill. We have to go

farther down to hit the water table. And

they're in excess of —— some of them are in

excess of 100 feet.

MARTIN KOSTCH;

513 Allegheny Street SARA ANN SARGENT ™ W«< Main StreetHollidaysburg, PA 16648 Somerset, PA 15501

COURT REPORTING SERVICE _ . . _ . ._ - . . . . _ 26 Souih Second StreetThe Atrium 210 Mam Street Clearfield. PA 16830

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... — - . ———————— ....... - ———————— ———————————————————————————— 3^ ———————— .

Just to answer that. Some of the

wells do go as far down as 190 feet below

ground elevation.

JOHN FREDERICK:

Okay. Now, forgive me for

jumping subjects here. Is there movement of

ground —— well, this is somewhat on the

same subject. Is there movement of

groundwater across the Little Juniata River?

NANCY CICHOWICZ:

We have not installed any wells

on the other side and we have no indication

that there is any movement on the other

side.

JOHN FREDERICK:

And it's my understanding that

there have been no —— none of these

chemicals have been found in any surface

waters; is that correct?

MARTIN KOSTCH:

Well, the surface water that was

sampled was the wetlands to the west of the

site. And there were no contaminants which

were found on the site which were also found

in the surface waters or the sediments that

513 Allegheny Street gARA ANN SARGENT '37 West Main StreetHollidaysburg, PA 16648 . Somerset, PA 15501

tf3 COURT REPORTING SERVICE ^e L c Jcj 5>1 ,in w - c 26 South Second Sireer|tSy The Atrium 21° Main Srrect Clcarfield. PA 16830^ 665-Phikdelphu Street John5cown;PA^5901 31 Nonh Main Screet

RR500^b

were examined.

JOHN FREDERICK:

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4 either?

MARTINI KOSTCH:

, No.o

JOHN FREDERICK:

Well, where do you speculate then

nyl chloride is going here if

it's ——? Obviously, it didn't disappear in

that the vinyl chloride is going here if

10—— I'm not being sarcastic, it didn't

disappear into thin air.32MARTIN KOSTCH:

13Well, it's possible that it14

hasn't gone that far yet. You know, without

many, many years of monitoring or additional16

wells further down, you know, it's hard to

,0 chart exactly where things are going to belo

moving. Also, the more it moves along, it

is going to be slowly diluted out in the

groundwater, because you've got more and

more and more mixture.22

JOHN FREDERICK:23

They're still there, we just

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513 Allegheny Street SARA ANN SARGENT J*7 Wcst MainHollidaysburf, PA 16648 O^KVWL Somerset, PA 15501

COURT REPORTING SERVICE « c w c A*.26 South Second StreetThe Atrium 21° Mam Stre" Clearfield, PA 16830

665-PhaadelphiaScrcCt o n s t o w n l ^ h Main

MARTIN KOSTCH;

Yeah. It gets so diluted that

3 then you don't detect it anymore.

4 JOHN FREDERICK;

. Well, then let me ask this

go with the alternative to treat the

6 question related to that. If we're going to

groundwater, where would the —— where iso

the proposal for the wells to be placed?

1Q MARTIN KOSTCH:

Okay. Well, right now we do not

—— cannot identify the exact well

locations. The proposed plan is based on

eight extraction wells to be placed. Now,

the exact locations will be determined

during the remedial design. Some additional16J7 studies would be done to determine which

would be the best location to place them, so

that we can maximize the containment which

would be caused by the extraction of the

water. It would prevent any of the

contaminated water from going further out

and actually pull it back towards the wells.23 •* F

JOHN FREDERICK:24

25 So, in other words, just to

u5,!3JAJughcnLsTA - SAM ANN SARGENT ". »? w«t Main &««Hollidaysburg, PA 16648 . Somerset. PA 15501COURT REPORTING SERVICE ,. c , e , c. , 26 South Second Street

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/ clarify something with the previous •

presentation here then, even though the

vinyl chloride particularly is not showing

4 up in test wells, there is a likelihood that

it has migrated someplace else within a

, reasonable distance of there. In othero

words, those contaminants very likely could

still be in the groundwater near those test

wells, even though they are no longer

showing up in the test wells?

MARTIN KQSTCH;

It's always a possibility.12

JOHN FREDERICK:13 —————————————

He also said that there was no14

vinyl chloride at the north —- or I'm

sorry. There were volatiles at the northern16 *end of the landfill, but that there was no

ia vinyl chloride there; is that correct?lo

MARTIN KOSTCH:19 ——————————————

That is correct.20

JOHN FREDERICK:jf\

Okay. I think this is also22

pertinent. Who is financially responsible

for the clean up itself? Is it all24

Superfund money or is Delta in any way held

513 Allegheny Street gARA "ANN SARGENT 137 Wcst Main StrcctHoHidaysburg, PA 16648 ^ vwiivui-m Somerset, PA 155011 * COURT REPORTING SERVICE ,, . , . , c..... 26 South Second StreetThe Atrium 21° Mam Stre" Ocarfield, PA 16830_ R 5 o Q j 2

financially liable for that?

MARTIN KOSTCH:

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potential responsible party, who has paid

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for these costs* At the time a record of

decision was issued, which will be issued

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In terms of the Ri/FS

investigation which we're in the process of

completing, Delta Quarries and Disposal was

the —— called the responsible party, or

following the completion of the comment

period, we will then be sending what we call

special notice letters to parties who we

believe are responsible for what has

happened at this site. We're in the process

of making our final legal determinations as

to who we would consider to be a potentially

responsible party and those people will be

notified after the record of decision is

completed.

JOHN FREDERICK:

I'm sorry. So does that mean

that whatever parties are determined to be

liable then could, in fact, that have

something to ——?

MARTIN KOSTCH:

513 Allegheny StrST SARA ANN SARGENT ™ W«< M*in S"«<Hofhdaysburg, PA 16648 Somerset, PA 15501

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The Atrium . .21° Mam Strect Clearfield, PA 16830«S;fl»l.ddphbS«. u l O O } 22 31 North M,n Street

Yes. We will ask them to

undertake the clean up. They are not under

law required to, but we can ask them first

4 and negotiate. If they do not want to do

it, then it could fall under Superfund to be

funded to do the clean up.

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JOHN FREDERICK:

Thank you.8 JMARTIN KOSTCH:

Yes ma'am?

JUDY STOTLER:

My name is Judy Stotler and I12

live right next to the landfill. And I was13

wondering for all of these years of having

tetrachloroethene, dichloroethene and all of15 'them in my well, what happened to it last

year? Did we drink it all?

._ MARTIN KOSTCH:1 o

Well, I can't give you ——.

JUDY STOTLER:20

From 1980 up to 1989, I had the

reading. First it was a one and then it22 *came up to a five. And then I got the last

23letter and they said my water is fine, drink

24 * Jit. Fine and dandy. We believed them. We

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513 Allegheny Street SARA ANN SARGENT " " >f West Main StreetHolhdaysburr, PA 16648 Somerset, PA 15501

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665-Philadelphu Street Johnstown. PAftlR D 0 0 1 2 3 31 North Main Street

started drinking it and every one of the

children got deathly sick the whole time we

was drinking that water. We put them on

4 bottled water, they're okay.

5 MARTIN KOSTCH;

6 Well, I cannot, you know,

specifically answer why the results are

showing it clean. However, your well haso

been sampled ——

JUDY STOTLER :

MARTIN KOSTCH;12 _- — numerous times, and the last

13several sampling rounds, I believe 1987,

also it was sampled. We have not found any

,, contaminants. And these rules have been16

._ verified because we — - not only did Delta

Quarries take samples, the State of

Pennsylvania took some, we take samples also

at the same time, and we also analyze them.20 ' J

And based on all of those results, the water

has — - you know, has no contaminants in**them that we can determine

JUDY STOTLER;24

25 Now, is there any way that you

513 Allegheny Street $ARA ANN SARGENT ™ W«< Main S""<Hollidaysburg, PA 16648 Somerset, PA I550I

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665-Philadelph,Street ,

. can have an environmental doctor come in and

check the children?

3 MARTIN KOSTCH;

4 Not under the Superfund Program,

ma'am, I'm sorry.

, JUDY STOTLER:o "——————-.——-.——

Then I must have been mislead.

LEANNE NURSE;

I just wanted to respond and

maybe Nancy can help me out on this. In

terms of questions about health impact and

concerns, through Superfund, the only way

that the Federal Government can respond to13

that kind of concern is if you have your14

private physician present their findings to

the Federal Health Agency. It's called the16 *Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease

8 Registry. If you feel that there is some

specific concern that might be related to

the site, then the Federal Health Officers20can respond and work directly with your

doctor to look at that. But we need for you

to first take the action to check with your23

private physician and establish, you know,24

record and document your concerns that way.

513 -Allegheny Street SARA ANN SARGENT " "" >" "West Shin StreetHollidaysburg, PA 1664& Somerset, PA 15501

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MARTIl^KQSTCH:

Yes sir?

JOE_ PEELMEIER:

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in Antis Township. I'm the Vice-President

of the Antis Township Action Committee. Ando

we talked about —— I've heard few people

mention a 70 feet a year. You know, when

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My name is Joe Peelmeier. I live

70 feet a year it doesn't scare anybody,

especially me. I'm too old to worry about

70 feet in one year. But I'm worried about

my granddaughter. I just set here and

figured it out. By the time she's my age

today, that water is going to move off that

site over three-quarters of a mile, which is

going to put my house with contamination in

it at 70 feet a year.

We talk about, you know, the

pond. They don't —— they say they don't

have to pump them out, the ponds that are

underneath that landfill. Any water seeping

down through the top, if that chemical is

laying there —— this may answer your

question. I'm not a scientist, but I know

513 Allegheny Street $ARA ANN SARGENT 137 West Main StrenHolhdaysburg, PA 16648 . , Somerset, PA 15501

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enough about how water works. If you have a

contamination spot underneath that well or

underneath that landfill and it can lay

4 dormant there for years until water seeps

down from the surface and expands the size

6 of that pond, then it's going to leak off

into a well again. There again it can ——

when the dry season comes it can shrink ino

size and won't show up in the wells. Now,

there's no guarantee that these wells have

been checked in the past and there was

poison in them, they check now, there's12 ,-_ .

nothing. Can you guarantee us six days, six

weeks, six months, six years from now that14

they'll still be pure?

MARTIN KOSTCH;16 ————————————Well, one of the requirements

10 under the Superfund is that we do, what welo

call, a five year review on a site Idke this

because contaminants would be left onsite.20That is, the material that's buried in the21landfill would not be removed. We would22come back and look —- every five years and

look at all monitoring results, which24

whatever plan is implemented would have

313.Allegheny Street SARA ANN SARGENT If W«< Main StreetHolhdaysburr. PA 16648 Somerset, PA 15501

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monitoring of all of the wells done either

—— at least initially semi-annually and

3 then annually thereafter. Those results

4 will also be looked at if something starts

to show up that would cause any concern.

Again, if it exceeds the MCLs for safe

7 drinking water, more vinyl chloride would

show up somewhere, that would open ——o

basically open the door again. We'd come

10 back and look at other possible alternatives

to deal with this new problem. We would not

just close the door, you know, once say we

do a groundwater treatment. We still would

come back because, you know, stuff was left

in the landfill and we would look at it, at

t. least on an every five year basis.16

1 7 JOE PEELMEIER :

The reason I say that is, because

19 the people that live in this immediate area,

myself included, are quite familiar with

.. dirt contamination, not just water

contamination. And if you pump all of the

water out of that well, all the chemicals

out of that hole, you still have the direct24

25 ground in there that's contaminated.

513 Allegheny Street SARA ANN SARGENT 'f West Main StreetHolhdaysburg, PA 16648 . _ Somerset. PA 15501

COURT REPORTING SERVICE .. . _ , .,,_ ,. . - 26 South Second StreetThe Atrium - 21° Mam Strecl Clearfield. PA 16830

665-Philadelphia Street Johnstown, PA 15901' ' -' «— " "

We found that in the Easterly

Sewage Plant when they told us, well, we

found the chemicals, we pumped them out.

4 There's nothing to worry about. The dirt is

all right. We had the dirt tested and it

, wasn't all right. Now, this was, again,

believing the Government Agency, not your

department. It was DER. And I've had this

fight with them now for over three years,

and we're going to continue to fight them on

this, that dirt is contaminated. So,

therefore, if the dirt is contaminated, the12

more leachate that comes down through that13

landfill, it's going to make another pond

with contaminated liquids.

So, they can test wells and tell16 *us the water is contaminated. Hell, we know

that. We don't want the wells telling uslo

the water is contaminated. We need clean19drinking water. And if it means running

private lines or public lines or Superfund

pays for it, get these people water lines.ffi

Get these people sewer lines. Give them23 *clean water, what's guaranteed under the

24Constitution of Pennsylvania. That's all

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we're asking for.

I mean, water in wells tell us

the water is poison. We know that. You

4 don't have to come back every five years and

tell us that. What we need is clean

6 drinking water. And if it means running

private water lines up there, municipal

lines, we're within a couple hundred feet of8the Village of Pinecroft. The water and

sewer lines are both there. I think you can

do it for cheaper than what you're planning

on doing here. I mean, it's my estimate. I12

think you can run water lines and sewer13

lines through the Village of Pinecroft for a

lot less money than what you're talking

doing here. And when you do pump it out,16

you're not going to cure the problem, you're

IQ just going to forestall it for the next1 o

generation. We'll all be gone and you don't

have to worry about it. I think they need20

water and they need sewer connections. That

will answer everything. Thank you.*•£MARTIN KOSTCH:

23 —————————————Yes, sir.

24 'CHARLES MATKQ; _

513 Allegheny Street SARA ANN $ARGENT If West Main StreetHollidaysburg, PA 16648 Somerset, PA 15501

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665-Philadelphi. Street "ITE'f 0 31 North Main Siiret

My name is Charles Matko. I'd

like to get back to Mr. Frederick's question

about who's paying for the cost of this.

4 You said Delta is paying or the Delta

5 Quarry?

MARTIN KOSTCH;

. Well, Delta Quarries up until

this time has paid for the undertaking ofo

the remedial investigation and feasibility

10 study.

CHARLES MATKO:

Then you went on to say there12will be certain companies asked to pay?

13MARTIN KOSTCH:

14Well, we have done an

investigation as to other potential parties16

other than Delta Quarries. Delta Quarries

was determined to be the potentially

responsible party because they are the

owners and operators of the site. Under20Superfund, if you own or operate a Superfund

site, you are liable for that clean up.

Other types of people who are

_. responsible are known as generators. That24

25 would be any company who shipped any type of

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generate stuff and that was taken inside

under Superfund they are equally liable.o

CHARLES MATKO:

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hazardous material to the site which would

be contributing to the problem. Through

various reports, investigations, information

we've got from companies that have disposed

at the site, we are determining a group of

potentially responsible parties because they

What about the general trash

haulers that haul trash to the Delta

landfill, do they have any responsibility

for the cost?

MARTIN KOTSCH:

Okay. If you're talking strictly

municipal waste, such as City of Altoona,

municipal waste is not considered to be

hazardous. So, in the case of, say, the

City of Altoona as long as it's municipal

—— if the City of Altoona brought materials

other than municipal wastes, for example,

one thing could be potentially sewer sludge

from a treatment plant. If that sewer

sludge had hazardous materials in it, then

they could become a potentially responsible

u".3/11ke«henjj?™« 0 SARA ANN SARGENT ~ If West Main StreetHollidaysburg, PA 16648 Somerset, PA 15501

COURT REPORTING SERVICE ,. _ ' , __,_ ., . ,, 26 South Second StreetThe Atrium 21° Main "^ - - , Ciearficld. PA 16830

663-Phihdclphu Snm __ . ^ ^ jfg 00132 31 North Main Streer

party. But generally if it's strictly

municipal waste, which is your household

. trash, you do not fall into a generator

4

CHARLES MATKO:

6ask the generators to contribute or do you

force them to contribute to the cost?

MARTIN KOSTCH:9

Okay. What the normal procedure10

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category.

You said that you was going to

is, we will send them a letter. Again, it's

called a special notice letter indicating

that we believe that they are potentially

responsible parties and are asking them to

undertake the cleanup.

Now, whether one party or a

hundred parties agree to do it, that is up

to them individually. Generally what will

happen is if you have multiple parties, we

ask them to get together, form their own

committee and then the committee then would

negotiate for all the parties involved with

EPA to undertake the cleanup.

How they do it financially is

totally up to them. You know, that's

513 Allegheny Street SARA ANN SARGENT "37 West Main StreetHollidaysburg. PA 16648 . Somerset, PA 15501

1 * COURT REPORTING SERVICE „, „ . :_.,„...,. 26 South Second Street—, . . 210 Mam Strcct .-, _p ,, n, ,^0jrtThe Atrium . , _ __. Clcarfield, PA 1683031 Nonh

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c MARTIN.KOSTCH:o

Okay. You're talking about a

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something we do not tell them what to do.

The company that generated this

waste paid somebody to haul that trash to

the landfill. The person that hauled that

trash to that landfill, would they have any

responsibility?

9classification we call the transporter. A

transporter is anyone who hauls hazardous

waste to a site. Now, under the Super Fund

law, if the transporter is told to take it

to that site, he is not held liable.

However, if he had any part in determining

where that material is hauled to, then he

also falls under the same category as being

liable.

Yes, sir?

RICHARD FAUST:

I'm Richard Faust from Altoona

Roofing Company. I am in the process of

looking into this situation. Quite a few

years back, we have had Delta haul away our

roofing material, our tearoffs and such.

513 Allegheny Streer SARA ANN SARGENT »7 West Main StreetHollidaysburg, PA 16648 , Somerset, PA 15501

COURT REPORTING SERVICE _ e L c... ,. . - .26 South Second SrreetThe Atrium 21° M"n.*Kfa. * H 0 1 k Cle.rfield, PA 16830

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————————————————— .,. ——————— . ——— . ———————————————— Q^ ———————

Does that still mean that we are liable for ^^

this, you know, if we have Delta with their ^^

own trash containers, they take it to their

own landfills, does that mean that they are

liable or are we liable? That's what I want

to know .

MARTIN KOSTCH:

Well, number one, I really can't

give you an answer, because I don't know

what type of materials your roofing material

is.

RICHARD FAUST:

Well, say it's slate, old slate

or tarpaper — - no, no, we don't deal in j^

asbestos, but tarpaper, roofing shingles,

wood, that type of material.

MARTIN KOSTCH:

Okay. Materials such as wood or

slate are not considered hazardous material.

Something like tarpaper kind of falls into a

potential gray area. If you're talking just

a very small amount, I would say, no, you're

not liable, but I'm not the one who makes

that final determination.

We do look at each case

' - . - • • : • . - . . *«5.!?,AI!!*henS? c SARA ANN SARGENT if west Main s««iHollidaysburg, PA 16648 Somerset, PA 15501

£355Ete 6 COURT REPORTING SERVICE ... rjj s>l . _ 26 Soum Second StreetfLJLI The Atrium 21° Man Strect Cl=2rf.eJd, PA 16830^ ^.Philadelphia Strcct Johnnwn PA15901. n C H fj j « & North Main Street

t i- ~. .--.. /<?i/n *lt ernns HItV/WW I \J \J

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1 individually. We look at the type of

materials that were brought in. If the

3 materials are considered hazardous, there

4 exists a potential liability.

5 Yes, ma'am?

6 AMY HESSER:

7 Amy Hesser of TV-10. There is

obviously a huge discrepancy here between9

Proposal E and Proposal F, a discrepancy in

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the amount of dollars spent. Will you spell

out exactly for us in the simplest terms

what the difference between those two12

proposals and their outcomes exactly are?

MARTIN KOSTCH:14

Under Proposal E, as I explained,

a series of extraction laws would be used.1617 Now, because we already have some existing

wells on site, there is a potential that

j some of these wells could be used again for

the purposes of extraction. It may be

possible that some additional wells need to

be put in depending on what the design

effort determines.

You know, part of the thing is we24

have to look at where the optimum points are

513 Allegheny Street Q^RA ANN SARGENT 137 Wcst Main StrcctHollidaysburg. PA 166-iS . . " - Somerset, PA 15501

COURT REPORTING SERVICE , „ , _ , c-trt ,, . c 26 South Second StreetThe Atrium f *l° Main Street Clearfield, PA 16830f

665-Phil«lclph« |t«« JOH"QT WS 00(36 31 North Main Street

1needed to maximize the amount of water

that's taken out to make sure that the

4 groundwater which is contaminated will not

migrate further and, in effect, over time

6 will actually be drawn towards the

7 extraction wells.

With that alternative, we wouldsreach our remedial goals, which is to clean

I0 up the groundwater over a period of a number

of years, and it's currently estimated to

take a minimum of four and a half years.12 - ... . *

And when I say four and a half years, that's13

what the current estimate is. That number14can always be changed depending on results

during the actual extraction treatment. It

could be longer. It could be shorter. It

.o just depends on what the results of the

action does.

Now. under Alternative F, what20 'would be done is basically the whole

landfill would have to be dug up, because we

do not have a good enough idea where any of

the industrial wastes are which would be24. causing the problem are buried.

513 Allegheny Street SARA ANN SARGENT »? W«' Main StreetHolhdaysburg. PA 16648 Somerset. PA 15501

COURT REPORTING SERVICE „ . , . , c,,«*.- c - 26 South Second StreetThe Atrium 210 Mam Strcet Clearfield. PA 16830L .

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So, because this is a site that's^ 7 a oi-dc! \i

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So, basically we would be doing a

search effort through the whole landfill,

digging up, determining what's there, if the

material is considered hazardous, then it

would be incinerated. And then once the

contaminants are removed, that material

would be placed back on site.

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57 acres, you can just imagine how long it

would take to dig up a whole site looking

for approximately 6,700 cubic yards of waste

material which is the current estimate of

what's buried on the site.

AMY HESSER:

But wouldn't that eliminate the

problem all together?

MARTIN KOSTCH:

It would eliminate the problem in

the sense that, yes, you're removing the

source and over time you would not have any

more getting into the groundwater. The

groundwater that's already contaminated,

though, would still continue to be

contaminated. And you would have to wait

for the process of nature to take the water

513 Allegheny Street SARA ANN SARGENT »7 W«<Hollidaysburg, PA 16648 Somerset. PA 15501

COURT REPORTING SERVICE , . e,,_ ., . f 26 South Second StreetThe Arrium 21° Mam Strc" ^ _ Ciearficid. PA 16830^ _

665-PhiUdelph, Street Johnstown, PA^l^lp g Q Q J 3 g

away from the site, but then there would be

no future addition to the site.

The big problem is you're looking

4 at something that would cost 75 million

dollars. The groundwater treatment which is

6 only a little over two million will

accomplish the same thing, it will clean up

the groundwater. It may take longer than8

four and a half years, but in the long, run,

0 it's still going to be a more cost effective

alternative. That is one of the evaluation

criteria we have to consider, cost12

effectiveness.13

AMY HESSER;14

But I thought you said F would

eliminate the problem and E would not16

eliminate the entire source?

18 MARTIN KOSTCH;

Well, E would not eliminate the

entire source, but over time these materials20

will degrade. So, basically we're taking

care of the groundwater which is the pathway

of exposure to any receptors. Therefore,4tJ

human health is protected and over time

25 nature would naturally eliminate the source

515 Allegheny Street SARA ^ SARGENT »' W«< *$n%™Hollidaysburg, PA 16648 Somerset, PA 15501

COURT REPORTING SERVICE _ c , _ , c„.„,,._ 26 Souih Second StreetThe Atrium ,., .Maitln ""L, Clearfield, PA 16830

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of materials within the landfill. However,

the estimate is it might take 75 years,

AMY HESSER:

4 Excuse me. Just one last

question. When is the decision expected to

, be made on this?oMARTIN KOSTCH:

Okay. Right now, the record8

decision should be issued by the end of

March this year.

AMY HESSER:

Thank you.12

JUDY STOTLER:13

Okay. Back years ago when

Parshall and Kruise had it, and there's no

reference saying that they dumped anything

illegal, back then you didn't have to have a

record of everything that came into the

landfill. How do you know that there wasn't

anything dumped in?

MARTIN KOSTCH:

The statement you made, ma'am, is

correct. We do not have records. All we

can do is go by what people tell us.

JUDY STOTLER:

513 Allegheny Street $ARA ANN SARGENT »7 West Main StreetHollidaysburg, PA 16648 _ ; Somerset. PA 15501

- - -- - COURT REPORTING SERVICE ^^ '.,„ ., • c *- <~\ r\ I PP Muth Second Street

The Atrium 2I° Main SlfKI R R 5 0 0 1 't&rfield, PA 16830665-Philadelphia Street Johnstown, PA 15901 H l\ ^

— . .L_-. - "TIM f\ ei? onnn 3* INUIU1 fllWin JlfCCli <\ •: t'f

And I feel that John shouldn't

have to take the burden of paying for

3 everything. Go after the companies,

4 especially Williamsport.

MARTIN KOSTCH:

, Sir?D

GLEN STOTLER;

Glen Stotler. You say how much8

contamination is in that landfill?

10 MARTIN KOSTCH:

Well, based on records, and again

this is only the records we have been able12

to track down ——.13

GLEN STOTLER;14 ————————————

In other words, you're only

guessing off the end of your nose.167 MARTIN KOSTCH:

.Q No, these are -—.I o

GLEN STOTLER:

There's about three or four20million gallons of toxic waste in it. And

I'll show you every goddamn spot there. I

-was there the day it opened and the day it

closed. That's all I have to say.2425 MARTIN KOSTCH;

4

513 Allegheny Street SARA ANN SARGENT ~~ '" " »? < M™ StreetHo daysburg, PA 16648 Somerset, PA 5501

J * COURT REPORTING SERVICE ^ e L c , _26 South Second StreetThe Atrium s'""C Cl«rfldd, PA 16830

I. I 3 1 N«* Main Succ,

Yes, sir?

JOHN NIEBAUER:

My name is John Niebauer. Of

4 course, I'm the owner of the site. Martin,

I think that at least if I were sitting out

. here in the audience and would not have beenothe victim of spending all this money on the

site, I think that it's important to noteo

that the actual cost of cleaning up this

site had been borne by me and will continue

to be borne by the generators and the

haulers.12

And I think your statement that13

these people will be asked to clean up is a14

misnomer, because they will be demanded to

clean up if they have the same demands16placed on them that have been placed on me.

10 As I understand it from our legalla

counsel, when I was given the orders to do

the RIFS study, I was told you'll either do20 J Jit or we will do it for you and our costs

are generally several times more than that

which you can do it yourself for. And if

you don't pay, we will take your personal24

belongings first and then we will go to anytij

5T3 Allegheny Street gARA ANN SARGENT If West Main SrreetHolhdaysburg, PA 16648 Somerset, PA 15501

COURT REPORTING SERVICE , . _ ' . '-,A w . e 2" South Second StreetThe Atrium 21° Mam Strect Clearfield. PA 16830

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company you own five percent or more stock

in.

Is that, in fact, true of the

4 generators and transporters that will be

asked to clean up this site?

MARTIN KOSTCH:6 "———~——~~~——•-- - "

I'm sorry. I'm not a lawyer. I

can't respond to that question. However, if8

you wish to pose that question in writing,

we'11 get you a response.

JOHN NIEBAUER;

Okay.12 :- - = . _ ,----

JEFFREY PIKE:13 ————————————

Let me clarify a little bit, too.14 •*

I'm Jeff Pike, EPA. EPA and its —— the

Superfund law is very broad and very strong

in its powers to clean up sites across the

nation. And there is a fair amount of moneylo

in the Superfund legislation to do fund

finance cleanups, but certainly the number20

one emphasis is to get the generators, the

people who own and operate it or are

involved in some degree with the deposition

of the waste there.24

So, we certainly —- we give

» , - a SARA A N N SARGENT w w « i w n s u mHolhdaysbure. PA 16648 Somerset, PA 15501

COURT REPORTING SERVICE ^ c L e , _„ . „ . _ , „ 26 South Second StrcctThe Atrium 21° Mam Strcct Clearficld, PA 16830

AS3.Phil»delph» Stmt J°hr,°""WP| 0 0 1 k 3

special notice to this group of prdperty

owners or whatever* And we give them an

opportunity to do the action. And it is an

opportunity. It's not'an order at first.

But we do have very broad enforcement

powers. And we have the option, we don't

always take it, depending on the

circumstances, to do a fund financed

cleanup, the Superfund to do this cleanup.

And then we also have other legal

authorities to go back to the people we

first asked to do the work and get the money

back from them that we spent.

There are several options here

and really the options don't play out until

we do notify the different generators,

transporters and owners and operators.

There are several options. Granted the way

we, at EPA, would like it to work is for the

—— when we give the special notice to the

owners and operators and the transporters

and the potentially responsible parties that

they do form a group and they do conduct the

cleanup themselves. But you're right,

you're very right, we do have other options.

513 Allegheny Screet SARA ANN SARGENT »7 W«f Main StreetHollidaysburg, PA 16648 Somerset, PA 15501

COURT REPORTING SERVICE _ - , _„.„,,.- 26 South oecond StreetThe Atrium 21° Mam Strect Cleared. PA 16830

^-Philadelphia Street ^'J^ n 1 I I 31 North Main StreetIndiana. PA 15701 (814) 5 - E C [ Grrcmhurr PA

j MARTIN KOSTCH;

That's correct. Ma'am?

M. CAROL RHODES;

. Yes. Hy name is H. Carol Rhodes.

I'd like —— as a layman, I'd like to make

. an opinion here. I agree with what Joeo

Peelmeier said. I think that we need more

than taking the water away because of the

ground that could be contaminated.

So, I think that you need another

option. I think it should be a combination

of C and E, which would take care of the12

problem, probably the most economical ——13

the most economical and also the safest for14the people that live in the Pinecroft area.15 * *Not only to remove the water you know is

16there, but to have a public water, sewage

supply. And you have basically the cost ofisa million for the water supply, two million

for that water removal, but the water20

removal is no guarantee.

And so, I would —— in a layman's22

view, I would say to me it would be a23

combination of C and E would be the most24

intelligent.

513 Allef heny Street SARA ANN SARGENT '" W«' j",5""'Hollidaysburg, PA 16648 Somerset. PA 15501

—^ COURT REPORTING SERVICE _ c , c , c^Va ,..»»•*. 26 South Second Street^y The Atrium . .21° Mam_Street Clearfield. PA 16850

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, MARTIN KOSTCH:

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6 MARTIN KOSTCH:

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You said C and E, ma'am, the

excavation, incineration.

M. CAROL RHODES:

My mistake.

The removal of the water that you

know is there, you know, the cleaning of it,

and a public water supply, public water,

sewage supply, which, you know, that would

protect everybody. It would get rid of what

you know is already there plus give the

people a public water supply. Now, that

seems reasonable to me, you know. I can't

understand why you don't have that option

there. That would be the safest in my

opinion as a layman.19MARTIN KOSTCH:

Sir.

JOHN FREDERICK;Martin, John Frederick from Antis

Township again. What —— perhaps to make a

better judgment about this possibility of C

513 Allegheny Street §ARA ANN SARGENT »' W«<Hollidaysburg, PA 16648 ; Somerset, PA 15501

COURT REPORTING SERVICE ^, . . , _„,- ., . - 26 South Second StreetThe Atrium 2I° Majn Sirect Clearfieid, PA 16830

665.Philade.phi,Street ^'n f il fi 31 North Main StreetU I H U " ' - • - -

/" and E being a letter G option, what is the

best educated guess that you can make about

the percentage of contaminants to be

eliminated by the extraction of wells and

the air stripping process?

, MARTIN KOSTCH;o • • -

Okay. Under the extraction and

the air stripping, we would probably look at8

approximately 99.9 percent extraction of all

contaminants.

JOHN FREDERICK;1 1

Is that from the water that you12

take out or is that from all water that you13

—— is that from all groundwater that you14could detect?

MARTIN KOSTCH:16The groundwater that would be

lg extracted would be groundwater that

basically runs under the landfill. We would

try to catch any water which we belive is20 2

contaminated. Also the pumping would be

done in such a way to actually draw any

contamination that may extend even beyond

these wells.

As you pump water out of the

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design studies, because the groundwater

67 prelminarily.

We do have enough confidence ino

the results, though, to feel it's effective.

well, you reverse the pressure and that will

actually pull some of the water back even if

it has gone down gradient from the site.

Again, there would have to be additional

extraction alternative was only looked at

It's been used in other Superfund sites.

The process does work. It does stop the

contamination from migrating. And you do

clean up the groundwater over time.

JOHN FREDERICK:

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16places where this has worked?

is

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Now, would it be possible to get

some information about some of the other

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MARTIN KOSTCH;

Okay. That's no problem. If you

just leave your name and address afterwards,

we can send you some information.

Yes, sir?

JIM DECKER:

Jim Decker of Pinecroft. I

notice the distance of wells up there, you

513 Allegheny Street SARA ANN SARGENT »7 West Main StreetHollidaysburg, PA 16648 . Somerset. PA 15501

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TheAmum 21° M*'n*JL« ~ , , Clearfield, PA 16830665.Philade!phia_Street _ J<*« f£j|fll Q j Q ^

said 50 feet to 190 feet. Well, here in the

Pinecroft area, we go deeper than that for

water. And our water is what's affected.

4 You know, you're only testing at 50 feet,

. 190. You know, we're at 230, 240.

6 NANCY CICHOWICZ:

7 These are the residential wells?

. JIM DECKER:o

Down in Pinecroft, right. So,

we're down deeper than you are.

NANCY CICHOWICZ:

But they've been tested; right?

JIM DECKER:

In Pinecroft, I don't know of any

. that have been tested. I don't know of any

_ that's been tested down there. And we're16

._ the ones that had the problem. We're the

lg ones that can't drink our water.

19 JEFFREY PIKE:

I guess -— Jeff Pike speaking.

. From my understanding of the situation, we

groundwater flow. And if there had been a

., concern previously about the Pinecroft area,24

2- we would have included that in the

evaluated and we have general ideas of the

513i Allegheny Strcct SARA ANN SARGENT »7 West Main StrcctHoIIidaysbure. PA 16648 „ Somerset, PA 5501

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investigation.

JIM DECKER;

3 I thought it was included. I was

4 told all along it was included.

MARTIN KOSTCH:

6 Yes, ma'am.

7 M. CAROL RHODES

My name is M. Carol Rhodes. I

know for a fact you tested or Delta tested a

neighbor of mine up on top of the hill whose

well goes down 180 feet. I'm halfway up the

hill. And my well goes 235 feet. But I12 "wasn't tested. And I'm north, right north

13there, that generally it might now flow that

14way. I'm generally concerned.

JIM DECKER;16And I'm below that.

10 MARTIN KOSTCH;1 o

The only thing I can point out is

the residential wells located on this area20downgrade from the site, you know, did not

show any contamination and they have been22 2 *

tested several times. So, if there had been23

any contamination that had moved in that24 J

direction, those wells should have shown

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j contamination.

2 JIM DECKER;

3 Well, let me ask you another

4 question. When I first moved down there,

5 the water in Pinecroft was excellent. Now,

6 here within the last five years, it's all

? getting contaminated. Now, this doesn't

make sense. Can you fill me in?o

MARTIN KOSTCH:

I could only give you a guess and

that wouldn't be fair right now.

JIM DECKER;12 =- ————:——:—~It's better than nothing.13MARTIN KOSTCH:M ' ' " "——————————

Yes, sir?

JOHN FREDERICK:16 ———————————————

John Frederick again. I might

1Q point out that a lot of the contaminationlo

that has shown in the Pinecroft area has

been bacterial contamination, which I think20is what Jim's talking about. And I think21the concern here has been for a long time

22 •*even before this was on the Superfund list,

for four or five years perhaps, had been24

where the bacterial pollution has come from

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t and especially in light of the fact that Jim

2 also said that it really had not been much

3 of a problem until four or five years ago.

4 Once again, as she said, Martin,

5 I think it's a lot of speculation, but

6 nevertheless there is a -— I think there's

7 a trend there that makes you wonder what has

happened. I mean, there has been someo

increase in, you know, population density in

J0 this area. And some of that perhaps could

be connected to septic tank fluid and so on

and so forth. But still I think there's a"42

concern here.13Most people can only afford to

have their water tested for bacteria. And I

,, think that's the concern. And even though I16

._ feel generally good that there's not been

j8 migration elsewhere, you know, you have to

J9 wonder if, in fact, there isn't a

possibility there's been migration

j elsewhere.

And I brought up the point about

the other side of the Juniata River and23particularly directly down gradient from the

2_ place where the vinyl chloride was found and

513 Allegheny Street $ARA ANN SARGENT "? W«<Hollidaysburg, PA 16648 - Somerset, PA 15501

COURT REPORTING SERVICE „ c . . , .,,. ,. . - 26 South Second StreetThe Atrium 21° Mam Stfcct Clearfield. PA 16830.

665-PhiladclDhia Street Johnstown. P^HlWpC' A n i C O ,,XT L W - ODO? rnuaacipnia^aireci -- _ _^ flnff 0 (J y J ) / 31 North Mam Street

also, you know, as you get into Pinecroft

and, you know, other places where there's a

greater density of wells and so forth.

4 I I suppose the point I'm making

, here is that there's been a trend towards a

6 deterioration of water quality in this area.

And certainly it may not —— the bacterial

pollution may in no way have a connection too

, the landfill and it may. I think it's

impossible for us to speculate about that as

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we sit here.

But I think that perhaps it would12 | f f

not be out of order to perhaps look into a13 | * *few samples on the other side of the Juniata

River and perhaps a few in Pinecroft if

that's not cost prohibitive.16

]7 , JEFFREY PIKE:

Let me just add, too, that during

s is Jeff Pike. During the

actual design of alternative E and the

pumping and treating, there would be

additional testing and additional wells22„, . installed to be able to see what kind of23. - cones of influence we would need for the

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25 | operation of the system. Certainly a lot

513 Allegheny Street SARA ANN SARGENT " ' »7 West Main StreetHolhdaysbur|, PA 16648 Somerset, PA 15501

COURT REPORTING SERVICE ™ ' "-,- ,, - c- 26 South Second StrcctThe Atrium 210 Mam Strect Clearficld, PA 16830

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Iframe.

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on over the years, drivers that worked for

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more data would be gathered during that time

M. CAROL RHODES:

Carol Rhodes again. My personal

knowledge of sludge being dumped in the

Delta landfill from the Altoona facility,

and I happened to have at the time off and

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me that used to do that, you know, when it

all started, they would tell me what they

dumped and so forth. And I was interested,

because I lived there.

The sludge that was dumped there

in my mind, I thought, well, that sludge is

what sent some of the bacteria and

contamination down into Pinecroft. It may

have got in the water. I mean, that is only

a layman's speculation, but that's what was

in my mind a few years ago when all of this

bacteria started jumping up. And I was the

one that found it first in my well, which I

had tested every year.

And for 18 years, I had no

problem and all of a sudden I got a problem.

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COURT REPORTING SERVICE „. ' , c' 26 South Second Street,._ , , • c _|

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the ultraviolet lights, whatever, and since

that time I have not had contamination. It

cleared up. But I sit way away from

anybody. I own several acres around my

home. Nobody is running on me. And I even

had men come in that know this from the ——

you know, I paid them. And they said, there

is nobody running on you directly.8

So, where did it come from? But

in my mind, it came from out of the ground.

It came from someplace else and got in the

water stream. And knowing that sludge was

dumped in the landfill, I personally felt

that that's how it came into my water

supply. And it could have happened to

people downhill from me who only have 50

foot wells or 40 foot wells, you know,

besides the fact it could come from sewage

from other people.

But I felt the fact that where my

location was and also my sister's house,

which is up on top of the hill from me, and

the same thing happened to her well which

was over 200 feet and had never been,

because I have them both tested. And I felt

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1which water can come from all ways is what I

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goes that way, it doesn't mean it's not

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not down by the road, but I'm, you know, ono

the top of that plane.

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that somehow it got into the water stream,

So, telling me that it generally

going to go this way because we're right at

the end of the north up in the center there,

So, that's the reason I think

people feel that perhaps this bacteria even

is coming from the landfill. Because a lot

of people are aware that live in the area

that sludge from Altoona's septic place, the

Altoona sewage was hauled into the landfill

and dumped in the landfill. Is that right?

I know I'm right. I had drivers that told

me, you know. So, I know.

That's all.

LEANNE NURSE;

If there's no other questions,

then we'd like to close the formal portion

of this meeting by thanking you again for

taking the time to come out this evening. I

just want to remind you that you have until

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HrfO U U t 0 o

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/ . March 17th to share any other comments that

you have wj

3 And also I want to thank Linda

4 Kimmen from the Antis Township staff who

helped us by securing this location for us.

6 We will make available within the next ten

7 days a transcript of tonight's meeting. And

the staff will be happy to stick around ao

little bit afterwards.

0 So, thank you very much for

coming* * * * * * *

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513 Allegheny Street SARA ANN SARGENT »' West Main StreetHolhdaysburg. PA 16648 Somerset, PA 15501

COURT REPORTING SERVICE „ c L e,,_,..,. 26 South Second StreetThe Atrium , L210 Main Strc" ^ _ Clearfield. PA 16830

665-Philadelphia Street Johnstown. P.A j49£l f| fl i S 7 M North Main Streetr« ;— n< ,<-At (fi\4} KfWW U U U I U / M North Mam Mreet

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IN RE: DELTA QUARRIES SUPERFUND SITE4

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7 C E R T I F I C A T I O N

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hearing in the above-captioned matter.

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AND NOW, this U^ day of

I hereby certify that the foregoing transcript is

true and correct record of the notes taken by me at the

Court Reporter

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665-Philadelphia Street_ . . . .Joh."-s /Ift»0 0 5 8 M North Main Srrrrr