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APS - The History of Zaire by Tshibumba Kanda Matulu - First Sessio... file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/USER/Mes%20documents/... 1 sur 38 05.02.2006 0:28 to the LPCA home page Archives of Popular Swahili logo ISSN: 1570-0178 Volume 2, Issue 2 (11 November 1998) to the APS home page The history of Zaire as told and painted by Tshibumba Kanda Matulu in conversation with Johannes Fabian Introduction First Session, Part 1 First Session, Part 2 Second Session, Part 1 Second Session, Part 2 Third Session,

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APS - The History of Zaire by Tshibumba Kanda Matulu - First Sessio... file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/USER/Mes%20documents/...

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to the LPCA home page

Archives of Popular Swahili logo

ISSN: 1570-0178

Volume 2, Issue 2 (11 November 1998)

to the APS home page The history of Zaire as told and

painted by Tshibumba Kanda Matulu in conversation with

Johannes Fabian

Introduction

First Session, Part 1

First Session, Part 2

SecondSession, Part 1

SecondSession, Part 2

ThirdSession,

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Part 1

ThirdSession, Part 2

FourthSession

First Session, Part 1

TSHIBUMBA, HISTOIRE DU ZAIREFirst Session of October 6, 1974

TSHIBUMBA, HISTOIRE DU ZAIREFirst Session of October 6, 1974

1. F: mm/ mm/ kama uko tayari: tunaweza kwanza na: na:T: na adisi/F: na adisi/ sawa vile unasema: ...?...adisi:T: bon: sawa vile niko tayari: bon:F: arisi njo:T: njo adisi [laughs]/ bon/ nazania nita: nitaanza juu ya ku: c'est à dire niko na:nitacommenter c'est à dire eh?F: mm/T: bon/ nitakuanzia kama si adisi directement: naanza kuelezea vile mambo: ilikuwa zamani/

1. F: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, if you are ready we begin with...T: ...with the story.F: With the story. As you said ...?... the story...T: ...alright, since I am ready:F: The story is this.T: This is the story [laughs].Alright, I guess I'll begin [to talk] about -- that is to say I'llcomment [on the paintings], right?F: Yes.T: Alright, although I am not going to give you a story right away I'll begin by explaining how things used to be in the past.

2. mutu mweusi: alikuwa tangu Adam na Eva/F: mm/T: bila kufwata adisi ya: ya dini:sawa vile katolika: protestant ou bien baKimbangu: ilikuwa vileZaire yetu: ilikuwa tangu zamani/ na wankambo yetu/ ni sawa vileunabaona pale: bale bankambo yetu [Painting 1: Landscape]/ nao:walijua: kuvwala/ walikuwa na maliba/ sawa vile unaona hapa: patableau [Painting 2: Ancestral Couple]/ walijua kutumika/ ni balebeko natumika pa maji kutosha samaki: njo vile kwa Katanga:banaanza kufanya mukuba ile wakati: kutosha mukuba: kufanya

nsambo1: kwenda kuuzisha: walijua kula: kumanger/

2. T: The black man existed since Adam and Eve.T: Mm-hmm.T: Without following the story ofa religion, be it Catholic, Protestant, or Kimbanguist, thisis how our Zaire existed since the days of old. And [there were] ourancestors as you see them there [Painting 1: Landscape], ourancestors. They knew how to dress. They had raffia clothes, as yousee here on the painting [Painting 2: Ancestral couple]. They knewhow to work. Those people by the water are working to catch fish,and in Katanga they began to make copper ingots in those times. Theyproduced copper ingots, made copper wire, and went to sell it.

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F: mm/T: aah/ banaanza ku: balikuwa namuhoko: balikuwa napika bukari: ilikuwa chakula yetu/ balijuakujenga/ sawa vile unaona banayenga pale nyumba:F: mm/T: ilikuwa banajenga kwa majanijuu: wala chini bataweza kuyenga majani: wala wataweza kuweka miti:banafunga muzuri: banaweka budongo: allez: banalala ndanikule/ na kujiongoza/ balijua kujigouverner/ F: mm/T: c'est à dire balikuwa nagouvernement [Painting 3: Traditional Chief]/ par example Banza Kongo: mm?F: mm/T: balikuwa na gouvernement muzima/F: mm/T: aah/ vile baNongo Lutete: botebalikuwa magouvernements/ maishabakujiunga pamoya ba kufanyaunité: balikuya: balifanyafédération/ mm?

They knew how to eat, to dine. 1

F: Mm-hmm.

T: Yes. They began to 2, they had

manioc and they cooked bukari3. This was our food. They knew how to build. As you see, there they built houses. F: Mm-hmm.T: The way it was, when they builtthey used leaves on top and on theground. Or they would take boughs, join them well, put clay on it andthere you are, they slept in there. And to lead themselves, they knew how to governthemselves. F: Mm-hmm.T: In other words, they had government [Painting 3: Traditional Chief]. For example, Banza Kongo, mm? F: Mm-hmm.T: They had a complete government.F: Mm-hmm.T: Yes, people like Ngongo Lutete,all of them were governments. Only, they had not joined forcesto create unity. They set up a federation, you understand?.

3. bon/ turudie ku adisi: histoire sainte: eh? adisi ya Mungu/ inasema: yakuwa: watu tatu/ lestrois mages [Painting 4: The Three Magi]/ mm? balikwendaka kumuabudu:Yesu/F: mm/T: mm? katika yao: palikuwakatikati yabo: palikuwa muntu mweusi/ wa mu Afrique/ c'est quemuntu mweusi alianza tangu zamani/ nayee vilevile/ histoire sainteinatufundisha tena: yakuwa: baba moja alikuwa na watoto: mbili/katika watoto wa wale mbili: kulikuwa moja alikosaka/ kwakusema ingine banasema kule muntu mweusi alitokea/ bale batoto balebalikosaka: et puis: ni baba yake alikunywaka mingi/F: mm/T: mais jina mi sijue/ eh?F: mm/T: ule mutoto pale alikunywa pombe mingi: allez: baba yake pale alikunywa pombe mingi: pardon: F: mm/T: alikwenda analala mu nyumba: bunji/ bila manguo/

3. Alright, let's go back to the

story, the sacred scriptures 4,right? The story of God. It says there were three people, the threewise men, you understand? They went to adore Jesus [Painting 4: The Three Magi].F: Mm-hmm.T: Your understand? Among them, in their midst there was a black man,someone from Africa. That means that the black man, too, had hisorigin in the days of old. The sacred scriptures also teach usthat there was a father who had two children. Of those twochildren, there was one who had sinned. That is, some say this iswhere the black man came from. It

was the [black] child 5 who had sinned. So, their father used to drink a lot.F: Mm-hmm.T: But his name I don't know, right?F: Mm-hmm.T: Once, when this child had drunk a lot of beer, sorry, when his

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F: aah/T: bon/ sasa kulikuwa mutoto yakemoja: alikuya anafungula mulango/anaangaria baba yake: oooh baba iko bunji/ anakimbia inje anakwenda kuita nduku yake ungine/kutoka kuita nduku ungine: anarudia naye/ sema kuya one/nduku yake anakuya anafungula mulango: anaangaria: baba yake ikobunji/ asema: tiens: pourquoi anafanya vile?F: mm/ T: ule mutoto alikimbia mbio:alikwenda kubeba: nguo/ akuwe kumufunyika baba yake/hakumufunyika kama alimuangaria: alianza kurudia ku mukongo/anakwenda namufunyika baba yake/F: mm/T: na baba yake alilamuka/ njo vile histoire sainte inasema/F: mm/T: baba yake kulamuka: hakukuwa

mulevi alifanya kusudi 2/ na alionakama mutoto yake ule ungine: alikuwa na akili pa kuweza kwendakumufunyika/ na aliita ule mutoto ungine: wa kwanza: alimuelezea/weye: kwanzia leo: minazania: siwezi nakukatala kuwa mutotoyangu hapana/ F: mm/T: mais utakuwa mutoto yangu/ mais/ utazala/ batoto yako bote beushi/ na tena: habatakuya hata moja na akili/F: mm/T: batakuwa batoto/tupu/ na batabakia bamaskini: mpaka kufa/njo vile histoire sainte inasema/ alafu kwa kuona mi kwangu miye: sawa vile minakuambia: nikoécrivain: F: mm/T: minaona kama ni bongo/ ni bongo juu ya nini? sababu minazania wakati ya Bwana Yesu: eh?F: mm/T: muntu mweusi alikuyako: mbele ya ile adisi: les trois Mages/F: mm/T: aah/ nazania balikuwa baBalthasar: naaaa: na: Merkio: na ule ungine minazani nasahabu jina eh?F: mm/ T: bon/ ?unaona mutu mweshi alikuyako/ bon/ eeh/ baba

father had drunk a lot of beer.F: Mm-hmm.T: He went to sleep in the house, naked, without any clothes.F: I see.T: Alright. Now there was this onechild of his who came and opened the door. He looked at his father:"Oh, [he said] father is naked." He ran outside to call hisbrother. He called his brother and came back with him. He said: "Comeand see." His brother came and opened the door. He looked: Hisfather was naked. He said: "I don't understand, why does he actthis way?" F: Mm-hmm.T: This child ran away quickly andwent to bring some clothes to cover his father. The way he did it was not by looking at him, hereturned walking backwards. [This is how] he went to cover hisfather.F: Mm-hmm.T: And his father woke up. This is how the sacred scriptures report it. F: Mm-hmm.T: His father woke up, he was nolonger drunk, he felt dizzy, and he saw that this other child ofhad had the presence of mind to cover him [without looking]. Andhe summoned this other child of

his, the first-born 6 and explained to him: "You, from this day on, I don't think I can deny that you are my child."F: Mm-hmm.T: "No, you are going to remain mychild. But all the children you will engender are going to beblack. Furthermore, not one of them will be intelligent."F: Mm-hmm.T: "They will be children without value. And they will always bepoor until they die." This is how the sacred scriptures put it. Butthe way I myself see it -- as I told you, I am a writer. F: Mm-hmm.T: In my view this is a lie. Why is it a lie? Because I think that in the time of the Lord Jesus, right?...F: Mm-hmm.

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président Mobutu: eh?F: mm/T: alisema: le quatre octrobredix-neuf cent septante-trois ku l'ONU: ya kama: je cite: eh? lerecours à l'authenticité n'est pasun nationalisme étroit/ un retouraveugle au passé/ bon: alisemavile/ kwa mimi nalijiona kama:kuona kwangu: ni kweli kwa sababu adisi ya muntu mweusi mwenyeweminakuelezea eh?F: mm/T: ilipotea tangu: tangu/ miminakamata mi tangu: bale ba trois mages/ kwa sababu ule mutu wa: pabantu mweu: pa: pa bale bantu tatu: alikuwa muntu mweusi/ hakurudiaka/ balimuuaka:alipoteaka/ na leo hakuwezaka hata kurudia/ nazania na adisi ya muntumweushi paka pale: ilipotea:F: mm/T: njo pale tulianza kufwata sawamambo ya kusema: ooh ni ule baba ali: lalaka mu nyumba: ooh:hapana/ ni pa ile wakati adisi ya muntu mweushi ilipotea/

T: ...before 7 that story of the three wise men, the black man was already there.F: Mm-hmm.

T: Ah, I think they were Balthasar 8

and, and Melchior, and another one, I guess I forgot the name, right?F: Mm-hmm.T: Alright, so the black man was

already there. So. Baba 9 President Mobutu, right?F: Mm-hmm.T: He said on October 10, 1973, atthe United Nations -- may I quote? -- "Recourse to Authenticity isnot a narrow nationalism, a blind return to the past." Alright, thisis how he spoke. On reflection -- the way I see it -- this is true.Because it is the story of the black man himself which I amexplaining to you, right?F: Mm-hmm.T: He was lost long, long ago. Itook my departure with those three wise man because this person amongthose three men was a black man. He did not return. They killed himand he perished. Up to this day, he cannot come back. I believethis is the story of the black man right there, it was lost.F: Mm-hmm.T: It was then that we followed things like [the story of] the manwho was asleep in his house, and what not. No, it was at thatmoment that the story of the black man was lost.

4. bon/ ilikuwa vile sawa nikuonyesha tableaux ya kwanza kama tulikuwa na bankambo yetu: balijua kuvwala:F: mm/T: eeh? balijua kuvwala: balijua kusumbulia: balizi: balijua kuzala: balijua kujigouverner/ angaria ...?...F: ya tatu/ T: ah oui: voilà/F: ya tatu:T: ahah/ na hapa unaona iko na mugini muzima/ na bantu yake: mia moya/F: hii ya tatu?T: alikuwa chefu vilevile/ mais:naonyesha kwa mawazo/ na sikutaya

4. Alright, things were as I showed you in the first paintings. We had our ancestors who knew how to dress. F: Mm-hmm.T: Right? They knew how to dress,they knew how to converse, they knew how to have children, theyknew how to govern themselves. Look at ...?...

F: The third one. 10 T: Yes, there you are.F: The third one.T: Yes, and here you see a whole village and its people, one hundred of them.F: [And who is] this third one?

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jina yake kwa sababu: recours àl'authenticité [chuckles] sawaminakueleza mara ingine eh?F: mm/T: eh/ tuko naru: tuko: tuko eh: c'est un retour aveugle au passé/c'est que hatukujua ile tena wankambo: ?tutaisha kupoteza ileakili/

T: He was also a chief. But I show[him] as I have thought [him] up and I don't give his name becauserecourse to authenticity -- as I already explained to you

[chuckles] 11, right?F: Mm-hmm.T: We go [back] -- it is a blindreturn to the past. The thing is, we don't know the ancestors anymore, we have lost that knowledge.

5. bon/ nakuwa kufika sasa wakati: adisi ya Congo: inaanza/F: mm/ mm/T: alafu ilikuwa Zaire ile wakati nazania [Painting 5: Diogo Cão andthe King of Kongo]/ F: tunaona tu/T: eeh/ ni kusema Zaire yetu ili:ilikuwaka/ na maroyaumes/ c'est que she tulipoteza na kinywa yetueh? hata kiswahili tuko nasema minazania hakina kinywa ya batumweusi/ ni kinywa ya baArabu/F: Swahili?T: Swahili ni kinywa ya waArabu/inafika hapa: kwa waArabu waliingia: tunaanza: kusumbulia/sawa Tshiluba: ni kinywa ya baMissionnaires/F: mm/T: babeupe/ balileta ile kinywa kule/F: mm/T: KiKongo iko kinatoka na ku Portu: nani: ku Portugais eh? ba: ku Portugal: pardon/F: mm/T: aah/ minajua akili/ njobalileta ile kinywa: njo tunaanza kusikilizana/ sawa tunakuwa naFrançais: inakuya nani: kinywa ya:batu bote/

5. Right, Now I am getting to the time when the story of the Congo begins.F: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. T: But I believe it was Zaire in those times [Painting 5: Diogo Cãoand the King of Kongo].F: We see:T: Yes, that is to say, our Zaireexisted and [it had] kingdoms. Only we lost [the word] in ourlanguage, right? Even the Swahili we speak, I believe, is not alanguage of the black people. It is the language of the Arabs.F: Swahili?T: Swahili is the language of the Arabs. It arrived here through theArabs who invaded [the country] and we began to talk in it. LikeTshiluba, which is a language of the Missionaries.F: Mm-hmm.T: The white ones. They brought this language there.F: Mm-hmm.T: Kikongo came from the Portuguese, right? Sorry, from Portugal.F: Mm-hmm. T: Yes, I am aware of this. Theybrought this language and this is how we began to understand eachother. Like we have French which became the language shared by allthe people.

6. bon/ eh/ ilik: tulikuwa namaroyaumes mingi/ kwa ile: nafahamu: royaume du Congo: parexample: royaume baTelela: et baKete: royaume de baLuba: namaroyaumes ingine mingi/ ku jito Zaire:F: utaweza kuita ingine?T: hapana/ minasinda sawaminafahamu ile eh/ na ingine mingi sawa vile minakuelezea/ ku jito

6. Alright. Now, we had many kingdoms. Among them I know the kingdom of Kongo, for instance,the Tetela kingdom, that of the Kete, the kingdom of the Luba, andmany other kingdoms. On the river Zaire...F: ... can you name other [kingdoms]?T: No, I can't, as I only knowthese. There were many others, as

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Zaire: ilikuwa Nzadi/ njo jina yake: Nzadi/ kulikuwa sultanimoja/ jina yake: Banza Kongo/F: mm/T: ni ule unaona pale pa tableau/ alimupokea: siku moja: mm?F: mm/T: explorateur Portugais/ Diego Cao/ na nkundi yake: na watu wake: weusi walitoka nao ku Angola/ wale watu walikuwa wa Malange/F: Malange?T: Malange/ sasa wale watu:nazania wanapatikana mu Kananga/ mu Luluabourg/ ya zamani/ na walewatu: hawana waKasai ya: bale baKasai bale/ habana baKasai ya:ya Kananga: hapana/ ni ba: Angolais/ bale balitokaka na:Diego Cao/ banaanza kuita baMalange/ et puis pale balifikamu mukini na kuzala mule: sasa banaanza kubaita sasa na sasa tukonabaita shee: Malandi/ njo banakamata ile mugini banaleta asema kama Malandi/ wa Nshinga/

F: ...?...3

T: maneno jina: Malandi wa Nshinga/F: mm/T: bon/ ile: jina Malandi waNshinga: inatoka ku: Malange: bale bantu balitoka mu Angola/ njobalikuwa kukala mu ile inchi: na sasa banazalana: balipoteakakwabo/ ni bale batu balikuwaka na: Diego Cao/F: na Malandi: Malandi: njo fasi? njo mugini?T: ma: oui: Malandi wa Nshinga: Kananga/ njo mukini/ F: ah: ni jina ya Kananga?T: ah: Kananga/ njo maana yake: Malandi wa Nshinga: Kananga/ F: aah/T: bon: bale bantu benginebanapatikana mule banayenga ile mukini: ni ba: ni ba: Angolais/bale balitokaka nabo kuko: baexplorateurs: sawa vile DiegoCao: kufika nabo humu/F: nsinga njo nini?T: ni téléphone/ kwa sababu ilemugini moya: iningia: téléphonembele ya wakati/F: Kananga/T: sawa ku Mbuji Mayi: ou bienkipande yote Kabinda kule: ah: ku nani: ku Lodja: na ku fasi ya

I explained to you. On the riverZaire -- it used to be Nzadi, that was its name, Nzadi -- there was achief, his name was Banza Kongo.F: Mm-hmm. T: He is the one you see there on the painting. One day, right? Hereceived him one day, right?F: Mm-hmm.T: He received the Portugueseexplorer Diogo Cao and his party, and the black people with whomthey had set off from Angola. These people were from Malange.F: Malange?T: Malange. Now, these people, Ibelieve, are now found in Kananga, in Luluabourg, as it used to becalled. And these people don't come from the Kasai, they are notKasaians like those from Kananga. They are Angolans, they came fromthere with Diogo Cao. People began to call them Malange. And then when they settled there in avillage and had children, people gave them a name and now we callthem Malandi. This village was given the name Malandi wa Nshinga.

F: ...?... 12

T: Because the name is Malandi wa Nshinga.F: Mm.T: Alright, so this name Malandiwa Nshinga come from Malange, the people who came from Angola. Theycame to settle in this country and they had children among each otherand forgot their home country. They are the people who were withDiogo Cao.F: Malandi, Malandi, is that a place? Is it a village?T: Yes, Malandi wa Nshinga, Kananga. It's a village.F: Ah, so it is a name for Kananga?T: Yes, for [a part of] Kananga. That is its meaning, Malandi wa Nshinga, Kananga.F: Ah.T: Right, so some people you findthere and who built this village are Angolans. They took off fromthere with explorers like Diogo Cao. Together with them theyarrived here.F: What does nsinga mean?T: It is the telephone. Because in

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Lusambo hakukuye téléphone/téléphone iliingia mara ya kwanza:ku Kananga/F: mm/T: sasa: bantu baliita kama:Malandi: wa Nshinga/ sawa vile Malandi wa Nshinga: njo kusema ni bale baMalange bale balikuya mule:banazalana: bana: kubaita sasa: ma: baMalandi/ sawa Malandienstout court/F: [chuckles]

this particular village the telephone was introduced before [it came to other places].F: In Kananga.T: Like in Mbuji Mayi, or in thewhole Kabinda region there, or in Lodja, and in Lusambo there wasnot telephone yet. The telephone was first introduced to Kananga.F: Mm-hmm.T: So people came up with the nameMalandi wa Nshinga. Malandi wa Nshinga refers to those Malange who settled there, had childrenamong each other, and now they call them Malandi. Malandians, forshort.F: [chuckles]

7. T: [chuckles] eeh/ bon/ alimupokelea: Diego Cao:F: njo huyu?T: eh: na batu: na batu yake: sawa balikuwaka nabo: akawaelezea jina ya: ya fleuve: yakuwa ni Nzadi/F: mm/T: kwa kuita kwake: Diego Cao:kuita kwa Diego Cao: aliita kama: Zaire/ bon: abakusilikizane asemaoui: ni: Nzadi/ nayee alisema kama Zaire/ aliandika mu buku yake kamanalivumbula motoni: Zaire/ kiisha aliwa: fatilia abari ya wa: Arabu/na masultani wengine: wale walipenda kuuzisha ndugu zao/kiisha alikala: anaanza kubaelezea mufano gani baArabu beko mu: mu:mu Congo Central: c'est à direkatikati ya Congo/F: mm/T: beko nateswa: banduku yabo: ba:na kuua bantu ku migini: na kuuzisha bengine/ na bale batuwanasaidiwa tena paka kuko: banduku yetu/ na hakuna mufano yakusikilizana hapana/ kama alikuwa mufano ya kusikilizana: kamatunaofahamu/ Diego Cao: alirudia: kwao: na nkundi yake: alirudiakwao/F: mm/T: bon/ alikuta déjà pale alikutakulikuwa civilisation: ya baZairois/ c'est à direcivilisation zairoise/ ilianzakuexister kwa Banza Kongo/ nayee ali: aliétonner: alisangaa/ sikukidogo Diego Cao alirudia: na nkundi yake: iliingia katikati yaZaire/ Diego Cao alirudia kwao/

7. T: [Chuckles] Well, alright. He received Diogo Cao.F: Is that the one?T: Yes, and the people who were with his party. [Banza Kongo] informed them of the name of the river. [The name] was Nzadi.F: Mm-hmm.T: Diogo Cao himself called itZaire. They did not understand each other and [when Banza Kongosaid it is Nzadi] they said, yes, it is Zaire. [Diogo Cao]pronounced it Zaire. He wrote in his book, "I discovered the riverZaire." Then [Banza Kongo] informed them about the Arabs andabout those other chiefs who liked to sell their brothers. He took his time about this and began toexplain to them how the Arabs behaved in the interior of theCongo.F: Mm-hmm.T: They made their brotherssuffer, killing people in the villages and selling others. And the people who helped them wereour brothers. And there was no way to understand each other. Hadthere been one, we would know of it. Diogo Cao returned home and sodid his party.F: Mm-hmm.T: Alright, so already at thattime he found that there was a Zairean civilization. That is tosay, the Zairean civilization began to exist with Banza Kongo.And he was astonished; he was amazed. Not much later, Diogo Cao

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ile nkundi alikuwa naye: nibaDhanis: sawa minafahamu ule: na bengine: baliingia ndani ya: Congo/ kusema tuvumbule sasa:inchi yote: tujue mifano ii/

returned and his party penetrated the interior of Zaire. Diogo Cao went back home [to Portugal]. Inthe party that was with him there was a certain Dhanis, he is one Iknow of, and others, and they got into the interior of the Congo."Let us discover the whole country now," they said, "so that we knowwhat it is like."

8. F: mm/ alafu: unasema: Banza:T: Kongo/F: Kongo: na bengine balikuwa na civilisation/ civilisation njo nini?T: civilisation?F: mm/T: c'est que ni: tuko; niauthenticité/ ni kula kwake:kuwvaa kwake/ kuikala kwake/ na kujenga kwake tuseme/F: mm/T: kujenga kwake/ ni vilecivilisation/ na kunywa kwake: tu [?tout] ilikuwa: civilisation/sawa balianza kunywa mu kale ka: ka: kibuyu ka wankambo/F: mm/T: ni kake alianza kunywa/ mm?/

8. F: Mm-hmm. But you said that Banza...T: ...Kongo...F: ...Kongo and others had civilization. What is civilization?T: Civilization?F: Mm-hmm.T: It's that we have -- it is authenticity. [It means that someone] is at home when he eats, dresses, lives, and builds.F: Mm-hmm.T: To build one's home, that iswhat civilization is like. And to drink at home, all that wascivilization. Like in the beginning they drank from thissmall gourd the ancestors used to have.F: Mm-hmm.T: That's were they first drank from, right?

9. bon/ nazani nafika pale:F: sasa: oui: minaona uliandika: ni mu tableau hapa/T: [reads] Diego Cao et le roi duCongo: bon/ ni kusema Diego Cao na roi wa Congo/ ali: yeye anauliza/oui: c'est le fleuve Nzadi/ Zaire/ a dit Banza Kongo/ aprèsquelques jours: fût la rencontreStanley: et le groupe de DiegoCao: qui était composé de Dhanis:Bodson: et les autres/ ni ileitaendelea juu ya ...?...F: mm/T: nitaelezea/ bon/ ile nazania: inamalizika/F: inamalizika: tunaona tu: motoni hapa:T: bon: motoni: sawa: naelezea nakuelezea mambo mingi juu ya ile: tableau: F: oui/T: ile yote tunasumbulia/F: tutaweza kurudia ku: ku mwisho/ tutarudia ku: ku matableaux:

9. Alright, I think now I got to the point where...F: ...Now, yes, I see that you wrote something on the picture here.T: [reads] 'Diogo Cao et le roi duCongo.' Alright, that is to say, Diogo Cao and the king of theCongo. He [Cao] asked; Banza said, "Yes, this is the river Nzadi,Zaire." [Continues reading] "After a few days there was the meetingbetween Stanley and Diogo Cao's group, which consisted of Dhanis,Bodson, and the others." It is the [group] that is going to continueabout ...?...F: Mm-hmm.T: I am going to explain. Alright, I believe [what I have to say about this painting] is finished.F: That is all. What we see there is the river.T: Alright, the river. [But this is enough] because I explained

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T: aah/F: na utaweza kunielezea madetails/T: madetails/F: sasa tu: tufwate tu/T: bon/F: sawa vile unataka/ T: bon/ bon/F: kama unataka ku:T: non: tuanze tu:F: kusumbulia juu ya: ya madetails:T: aah/F: unielezee/ kama unataka turudie: enfin:T: detail: par example minazania: bon tutarudia ma: tutarudia mara ingine eh?F: mm/T: ah bon/ ou bien kama uko na mambo: na mambo ya kuuliza: unaniuliza: minakujibu: yote:F: nikamate ingine?T: bon kamate sasa ingine/

this painting to you at length.F: Yes.T: We talked about all this.F: We can get back to it at the end, when we take the pictures again [one by one]. T: Ah.F: And then you can explain detail to me.T: Detail.F: Now let's continue.T: Alright.F: It depends on what you want.T: Alright, alright.F: If you want to...T: ... no, let's just start...F: talk now about detail. T: Yes.F: Then tell me. If you want us to go back [to the story], well...T: Regarding detail, I believe, we'll get back to this some other time, right?F: Mm-hmm.T: Very well, unless you have something to ask, then ask me, I'll answer everything.F: Shall I take up another [painting]?T: Alright, take up another one.

10. bon/ ngambo ya Katanga: Livingstone alikutanishana: na watu: wa Katanga [Painting 6:Livingstone in Katanga]/ na mizigo: ya mukuba/ kutokea nayo kuKatanga/ kwenda kuuzisha mbali/ naye alisagaa: kwa kuona mara yakwanza: muntu wa namna: wasiyo namna yake: rangi yake: mais:nayee njo eko anaenda kutafuta: mais anaona: na ile mukuba: namansambo: na bintu ingine: na charette beko nasukuma: beko banakwenda wapi: ku: kuuzisha ile:mukuba/ aliwauliza/ hawakuweza kusikilizana/ kwa lugha/habakusikilizanaka kwa kinywa: sababu kabila ya huyu: na kabilaya huyu iliachana/ huyu anasema kyakwabo: anasema kyakwabo:banashinda kusikilizana pale/F: mm/T: bon/ alimuonyesha: mukuba:alitaja jina ya chef Katanga/ nayee Livingstone: aliandika ndaniya buku yake/ na Livingstone alienda zake: akipitia kwa njia:ya Lac Moero: na: alifika Nguba: akakuta watu weusi: weko nafanya

10. Fine, in the region of Katanga, Livingstone got to meet people from Katanga [Painting 6:Livingstone in Katanga]. They had come with a shipment of copperingots from Katanga and were going to sell it in faraway places. Andhe was amazed to see for the first time a human being different fromhimself, with a color other than his. But, after all, he had setout to search [for wealth] and so he saw the copper ingots and thecopper wire and other things on the cart they were pushing. "Whereare they going [he thought] to sell that copper?" He asked them,but they simply had no language in which to communicate. Theybelonged to different peoples; one spoke the language of his homecountry, the other his, and so they failed to understand each other.F: Mm-hmm.T: Alright. [Someone] showed[Livingstone] the copper and pronounced the name of chiefKatanga. And Livingstone wrote it

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chumvi/ nakafika Mulungwishi/ kwenyewe: aliendelea: nakufundisha dini: ya kiProtestant/ basi: alichoka: na akapumuzika/F: mm/T: ni tableau ile/F: mm/T: ahah/

down in his book. And Livingstonecontinued his travels; on his way he passed Lake Moero and came toNguba, where he met black people who were producing salt. The hearrived in Mulungwishi, and that is where he continued to teach theProtestant religion. Finally, he got tired and rested.F: Mm-hmm.T: That is [what I have to tell about] this painting.F: Mm-hmm.T: Yes.

11. [Picks up Painting 7: Stanley's Arrival] na kwa wakati ule eh? ungine explo: explorateur/explorateur: mm? ba jina ya Stanley: aliweza kutoka Belgique/na kufika Angola/ alizidi kuendelea/ mpaka: Zaire/ Katanga/akafika pa mugini moja: aliona watu/ nao walikimbia/ wote porini/hakuweza kufanya kitu hata moja/ alichoka: na alirudia pa Belgique/sababu sawa vile alitembeaka: alitoka mbali ku Belgique:F: mm/T: Stanley ni Portugais/ mais sawa vile:F: yee ni Portugais?T: ni Portugais Stanley/ sawa vilebaba yake na mama yake walikufwaka: hakukuwa na muntu yakuenea kumuchunga: alitokaka tu mutoto kidogo sana/ nakwenda tupote: sawa ku mashua la maji: matelot par example: na bamatelotsbale: banakafukuza: paka vile: ku chance yake: alipata kufika kuBelgique/ alikuya balimuweka ku nyumba ya: ba: ya batoto wamaskini/F: mm/T: bon/ kule: alikomea: na alikuwa muntu wa akili/ voilà: sikukidogo: alipatana na: le roiLéopold deux:F: mm/T: ni ule alimusemaka kumbe kama uko na nguvu: F: mm/T: eeh: kama uko na nguvu:F: eh kale ka? [interruption]T: ah: kama uko na nguvu:F: mm/T: wende mu: mu Afrique/ukavumbula na wee ujue: fasi ya bale batu: tunasikia kama batu

11. [Picks up Painting 7: Stanley's Arrival] And at that time -- you understand? -- anotherexplorer by name of Stanley managed to leave Belgium andarrive in Angola. From there, he went on to Zaire and Katanga.Whenever he came to a village and saw people, they all fled into thebush. There was nothing he could do. He got tired and went back toBelgium. Because [he was dissatisfied with] the way his trip went; after all he had comefar away from Belgium.F: Mm-hmm.T: Stanley was Portuguese. However, since...F: ... he was Portuguese?F: He was Portuguese, Stanley was.Because his father and his mother had died and he had no one to takecare of him, he left [home] at a very early age and traveled allover the place, for instance, as a sailor on ships, but the sailors

chased him away. 13 Then he had the good fortune to get to Belgium, where they put him into an orphanage.F: Mm-hmm.T: Alright. There he grew up to become an intelligent person. And there you are, soon he met with King Leopold II.F: Mm-hmm.T: He was the one who told [Stanley]: "If you have the strength."F: Mm-hmm.T: Yes, "If you have the strength ...F: [interruption] ...it's this

little ... 14

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banavivre/ na ku kwanza kuita bantu balisema kama: bale batu:beko na mikila/ iko sawa macaques? hatujue kama ni batu gani?F: mm/T: eeh/ shee tunaona: tunasikiakama ni: vile/ kumbe: wende ukaangarie/ sawa beko nasema tu kukinywa: wende ukaangarie/ nayee alitokaka: Belgique weee: alifikamu Angola: kufika mu Angola: alipatana tena na batu mpaka muAngola: aliingia nabo mu Zaire:F: mm/T: alitembea: alifika mugini moja:anaka: [aside] làlàlà/ anafikamugini moja: ali: ali: kuta batu/batu bale: kwa kumuona tu: ah [claps his hands] bote banakimbia/mukimbia mwabo balikimbia mu pori: aku: alishinda na muchoko ya kulealitoka mbali: akukwa mufano ya tena kuendelea: nawakuuliza nenoasema uku ni wapi: ii ni fasi gani/

T: ... ah, if you have the strength."F: Mm-hmm.T: "Then go to Africa. You shoulddiscover that place where we've heard people live. When they firstnamed those people it was said that they had tails. Were theylike monkeys? We don't know what kind of people they are." F: Mm-hmm.T: Right. "We see, or rather, we hear that this is what they arelike. So, you go and seek whether they have a language, go andlook." So he left Belgium and after a long trip he came toAngola. In Angola he met people and together with them he enteredZaire.F: Mm-hmm.T: So he traveled and would come to a village, [aside] oh my, oh

my, 15 where he encountered people.But when those people saw him, ah [claps his hands], they all ranaway. Whenever they fled, they took off for the bush. [Stanley]was taken over by fatigue, [after all] he had come from far away.There was no way he could go on asking them: Where am I, what kindof place is this?

12. ts: bon: alirudia: nakwenda kuleta ma: rapports yake: marapports yake: kwa: Léopolddeux/ F: ah: [Painting 8: Stanley Reports to Leopold II] njo rapport yake ya Stanley/T: eeh/ na kumuambia ya kama:nalienda mule ulinituma/ minafika/ ni kweli nalikutanisha batubengine: beko naexister/ naliwabeba: tulikwenda nabo:katikati ya Afrique/ na minakutanisha bale batu: mais naliona kwa mbali: na mi sijuekama ni batu ou bien kama ni nyama/ beko nakimbia bote ndani yapori/ na mi sikuwa namna moya ya kufanya: nali: nalirudia/ sawavile narudia huku: ni juu ya kuelezea/ nayee Léopoldalimuelezea oui: sawa vile unasema: kulikuwa ungine anaisha kutangulia: anaisha ku: kwendambele/ tunashikia kama

12. Alright then, he went back to make his reports to Leopold II. F: Ah, [Painting 8: Stanley Reports to Leopold II] this is about Stanley giving his report.T: Yes, and he told him: "I wentwhere you sent me. I got there and, it is true, I found otherpeople. So they exist. I took them along and we traveled togetherinto the interior of Africa. I met those people [who live there] butI only saw them from far away and I don't know whether they arepeople or animals. They all ran away into the bush. There wasnothing I could do about it, so I came back. I returned here to tellyou about it." Then Leopold told him: "Yes, as you said, there is aperson who had already spent some time there. He went earlier. [Thename] we heard was something like 'Livingstone.' He is an Englishman.

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Livingstone/ c'est un Anglais/ niAnglais/F: mm/T: anaisha kwenda/ alafu kumbebafanye nguvu: mutafute: fasi utamupata/ yee atakuelezea muzuri: utajua ile mugini/ njo maanaalitokaka: na kwenda kutafuta: Livingstone/ Stanley/ bon/F: mm/T: alikwenda namutafuta: namutafuta: namutafuta: namutafuta: anakwenda kumupata: mu: Mulungwishi/F: mm/

F: Mm-hmm.T: He had gone earlier. So [saidLeopold] one should make an effort and you should look for the placewhere you can find him. He is going to inform you thoroughly,and you will get to know this village. That is why Stanley setout to go and look for Livingstone. Alright."F: Mm-hmm.T: So he went and looked for him all over the place until he found him in Mulungwishi.F: Mm-hmm.

13. T: ku Mulungwishi kule alimupata [Painting 9: Stanley Meets Livingstone]: Livingstonealikuwa zamani gani na bantu: ba mu Zaire: bale balisema kamabalimukimbia Livings: nani: Stanley/F: mm/T: balikuwa nabo bien: alibakutabeko nafanya chumvi yabo: ao banafanya mukuba: banasumbulia:anaanza kubafundisha na mambo ya dini: anafundisha dini ileinaingia mara ya kwanza mu Zaire: na baProtestants/ voilàalibafundisha: anabafundisha: anabafundisha: Stanley: sikukidogo: anakuwa kutokea mu mukini ile/ anakuta bantu mingi/ nasultani/ tiens/ na: Livingstone vilevile/ balipokeleana: na furahamingi kabisa kabisa/ na Living: na Stanley alikala siku kidogo mu ilemugini: alimuelezea asema kumbe mi sasa: ni safari/ ya ilebalinituma: nitaendelea tu/ aliitika asema bon ni muzuri:

minabakia tu kwa akili 4 niko mugonjwa/ na yeye: ali: ali: alibakia/ yeye: Stanley alikwenda/F: mm/

13. T: It was at Mulungwishi that he found Livingstone [Painting 9:Stanley Meets Livingstone]. He had lived there for who knows how long, together with people fromZaire, the same that were said to have run away from Stanley.F: Mm-hmm.T: They got along fine. When hehad arrived there he found they were producing salt and copperingots, and they talked. He began to teach them about religion; hetaught the religion that was the first to get into Zaire, that ofthe Protestants. And he continued to teach them for a long time. Ittook Stanley only a short while to get to this village. There hefound many people, a chief, and, to his surprise, Livingstone aswell. They greeted each other and were full of joy. Stanley stayed awhile in this village, then he told [Livingstone]: "I must be on my way. I shall continue mymission." [Livingstone] accepted this and said: "Fine, but I'llstay here, because I am sick." So he stayed behind; Stanley left.F: Mm-hmm.

14. T: kisha kwenda kwake: ku mukongo yake: Stanley sawa vile alibakia: nani: Livingsto:Livingstone sawa vile alibakia maladi: alikufa/F: alikufa/T: alikufa/ kisha kufa:Livingstone alikufia mikono ya bantu mweushi [Painting 10:Livingstone's Death]/ bale alianza kufundisha: na walimuzika: namnaya kinkambo huku kwetu/

14. T: After Stanley had left Livingstone continued to be ill and died.F: He died.T: He died. Livingstone died inthe arms of black people [Painting 10: Livingstone's Death], those hehad begun to teach. They buried him. Following the custom of ourancestors, here they dug a hole among the rocks. F: Mm-hmm.

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balichumbula ndani ya ndibwe:F: mm/T: namukamata balimuingisha mule: banafunyika/ Livingstone: alikufa/

T: They took him, put him inside, and covered [the hole]. So Livingstone was dead.

15. na wakati ule: na wakati ile alikufa:F: mm/T: nazani Living: na Stanley alizidi tu kuendelea weee: paka ngambo ya Stanleyville/ zamani: za: zamani alikuya: Kisangani/F: mm/T: alikuta ile jina/ Kisangani/ alitembea sana anafika na kule ngambo: anaexplorer/ na kisha anarudia: anakuwa kumuelezea:F: mm/ T: [aside] anakuwa ...?...:anakuwa kumuelezea: Léo: Léopolddeux: asema kama minatoka kuZaire: ku Zaire: minaisha kazi yangu yote: najua na mambo yote:inapita: kule/ bon/

15. It was the at time when [Livingstone] died.F: Mm-hmm.T: I think, Stanley went on andcovered a great distance until he got to the area of Stanleyville,which long ago used to be Kisangani.F: Mm-hmm.T: He found this name, Kisangani.He traveled a lot and when he got there he explored the region. Thenhe returned and made his report [to the King].F: Mm-hmm.

T: [aside] ...?... 16 He made hisreport to Leopold II: "I come from Zaire, [where] I have completedall my tasks. I know everything that is happening there."

Alright. 17

16. bon: katikati ya Zaire: ile wakati ile: kulikuya: paka: lufu kwa bantu: ya Ngongo Lutete/Ngongo Lutete naye: aliikala tu: ni juu ya: kuua batu [Painting 11:Chief Ngongo Lutete]/F: mm/T: kukata: kuweka mu chungu: kula:nyama yake/ bon/ wale wengine watumwa: ni kufunga kamba:kuuzisha/ ku wa: sawa vile chef de l'Etat alisema: kwacommissionnaires: Arabes/ bon/ anabapatia bale batu: balikufungankamba: bale nabo anabeba: anakwenda kupeleka: ku Zanzibar/ na kuwauzisha/ kwa wazungu: naowazungu walianza kwenda nao katikati: katika utumwa/F: mm/T: ku bulaya: na ku Amérique/ nivilevile banaexister banoirsAméricains/ banègres/ ni bale batubalitoka uku kwetu: balianzakuuzishwa ile wakati/ nazania: depuis bale batu balikwenda kuko:eh: quatre cent: miaka mia inne eh?F: mm/T: oui/ kuko siècles inne tuseme/eeh/

16. Alright. At that time, in the interior of Zaire, the people ofNgongo Lutete were sowing death. Ngongo Lutete sustained himself bykilling people [Painting 11: Chief Ngongo Lutete].F: Mm-hmm.T: He had them cut up and put intoa cooking pot; then he ate their flesh. Alright. Others were tiedup and sold as slaves, as the head of State said, to Arab agents.Alright. He delivered those people to them and they tied them up,took them away, and brought them to Zanzibar. And they sold them tothe whites. And the whites went away with them and [sold them] asslaves.F: Mm-hmm. T: In Europe and America. So thereare now black Americans, Negroes. They are the people who came fromour country and were sold at that time. I think this happened fourhundred years ago, right?F: Mm-hmm.T: Yes, let's say four centuries ago.

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17. bon/ siku kidogo Stanley na nkundi ya Dhanis: balikutanishana/F: [points to painting] hapa?T: banakutanishana: na waArabu/nakwenda kuvumbula: nyumba: ya: Ngongo Lutete/ na walipikanakabisa kabisa/ waliua waArabes: na kuwafukuza/ kuwakuza kwa lote/kisha kuwafukuza waArabes: walikimbia [Painting 12: ArabDefeat]/

17. Alright. Not long after that Stanley and the group of Dhanis met.F: [points to painting] Here?T: They also met the Arabs andeventually discovered the residence of Ngongo Lutete. Theyhad a fierce fight; they killed [many] Arabs and chased them awayfor ever. The Arabs were chased away and fled [Painting 12: ArabDefeat].

18. bon/ nazania: balibamba bachefs bale benyewe bakubwa: ba baArabes [Painting 13: The Execution of the Arab Leaders]/ F: mm/T: balibamba bachefu bakubwabaArabes: na kuwaua/ nazania kati yabo: balibambaka Rumaliza: TipoTipo: Mwinimutara/ kisha kuwaua: basi/

18. Alright, I think they captured the most important leaders of theArabs and killed them [Painting 13: The Execution of the Arab Leaders]. F: Mm-hmm.T: They captured the big Arableaders and killed them. Among them, I believe, they caughtRumaliza, Tipo Tip, and Mwinimutara. Then they killedthem, and that was that.

19. sawa vile Banza Kongo [Painting 14: The Poisoned Banza Kongo]: F: mm/T: kisha kuwaua: sawa vile BanzaKongo alipenda: watu wote/ weusi kama weupe/ alipenda yee wazungu:wala muntu mweusi/ na kwanza kuwa muntu alipenda busultani yakeilizidi kuendelea sawa vile nilikuambia kulikuwa civilisationde: ya watu weusi ya wa Kongomani/ bon: ali: alikuwa warafiki naLéopold deux/F: mm/T: bon/ Léopold deux: aliwazamawazo ya kusema kama: sawa vile huyu mutu ana: pokelea bandukuyangu na kuikala nabo: kumbe vile: mitakamata sasa jina ya Zaire:mitatosha/ nitakamata: ile ilikuwa mawazo yake na mayele yake/F: mm/T: atujue politique yake alikuwanaye/ nitakamata kutosha ile jina: na nimupe jina ya: Congo/ irudiemu: Zaire/ ile fleuve Zaire anasema: itatoka/ ni kwelialikamata: nani: jina ya Banza Kongo: aliupa: inchi Congo/ naaliita kama: Congo/ na jina ya Zaire: ilikufa ile wakati/F: mm/T: bon/ kisha kufa kwa: kwa: kwa

19. Now take Banza Kongo [Painting 14: The Poisoned Banza Kongo].F: Mm-hmm. T: After they had killed the Arabs-- take Banza Kongo. He liked everyone, white or black. He likedthe whites, he liked the black man. Above all he was a person wholiked to be the chief, and he made much progress. There was, as Itold you, civilization among the black people of Kongo. Alright.[Banza Kongo] was friends with Leopold II.F: Mm-hmm.T: Alright. Leopold II thought upthis idea: "Because this man received my associates and livedwith them, I am now going to remove the name 'Zaire.' I amgoing to take" -- this was his idea and his plan...F: ...mm-hmm...T: ... we don't know what kind ofpolitics he had in mind -- "I am going to take this name away and Ishall call it 'Congo'-- that will replace 'Zaire;' 'Zaire' as thename of the river will have to go." And, truly, he took BanzaKongo's name and gave it to the country of the Congo. He called it"Congo," and the name "Zaire" died at that time.

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nani: kwa jina ya Zaire: kisha kufwa kwa jina ya Zaire: nazaniaBanza Kongo: eeh: wazungu walisema: balimuambia Banza Kongo/tunatafuta kufanya karamu/ karamu c'est que ni fête/ njo tunakupatiajina: na wee unabakia sultani wa: inchi yote ya: Congo/F: mm/T: ni kweli nayee aliitika/ kwafuraha/ kulikuwa furaha munene: na ya kweli/ na kisha ndani ya furahamule: Banza Kongo: balimwekeaka sumu/ balimuempoisonner: naalikufa/ nazania kufa kwa Banza Kongo: basi bantu balipoteza bintubyote na akili yote/ni sawa vile minakuelezea kama: ku tableau sawa minaandika: yakuwa: mu: eh: président Mobutu alisemaje cite eh?F: mm/T: [reads from painting] l'Afriqueest un continent qui a subi le [sic] plus grande humiliation del'histoire/ naendelea tena: le noir n'a plus à échapper aurazzias car il perd tout simplement ces droits: sa patrie:et sa liberté/ Mobutu/F: mm/T: fin de citation/ njo wakati:ile muntu mweusi alipoteza yote: na alikuwa sasa ndani ya utumwa/na balikamata: muzungu: alimukombola Banza Kongo: na ni muzungu Portugais/ na kishakukombola: Banza Kongo: hakukuwe tena mufano: tulikuwa ndani ya:utumwa/ na usultani yetu: ilikufa paka pale/

F: Mm-hmm.T: Alright. When the name Zairehad died, when the name Zaire had died, I think Banza Kongo, orrather, the whites spoke and told Banza Kongo: "We want to organizea karamu. Karamu means feast. This when we give you the name and youwill remain the ruler of the entire country of the Congo."F: Mm-hmm.T: Truly, he was pleased to accept, and there was joy, greatand sincere. And then, in the midst of this joy, they gave BanzaKongo some poison. They poisoned him and he died. With the death ofBanza Kongo, I believe, people lost all their possessions and alltheir knowledge. It was as I explained it to you and as I wrote on the painting. President Mobutusaid -- I quote, right?F: Mm-hmm.T: [Reads from painting] "Africais a continent that suffered the greatest humiliation in history."I go on quoting: "The black man no longer can escape the raids, forhe quite simply loses his rights, his homeland, and his freedom.Mobutu."F: Mm-hmm.T: End of quotation. That was thetime, when the black man lost everything and from then on helived in slavery. Then they took a white person, a Portuguese, whoreplaced Banza Kongo. Once they had replaced Banza Kongo there was no way out; we lived in slavery.Our sovereignty died right there.

20. na kisha kufa kwa usultani:eh: Stanley alirudi tena ku: bulaya: na kumulezea Léopold kamasasa mu Zaire hamuna tena: kitu/ kunabakia: mu Congo pardon iletuliweka jina amuna tena kitu: kunabakiako paka chef moya: jinayake ni: Katanga:F: mm/T: vilevile na Msiri: na Pande: Kashipo: Nkwande: F: mm/T: bale bote ni bachefunakuelezea: banabakia/ alafu mukubwa yabo minazania ni: Katanga[Painting 15: Chief Katanga and Chief Msiri]/

20. When sovereignty had died, well, Stanley returned to Europe and informed Leopold: "In Zaire,sorry, in the Congo as we called it, there is now nothing [in ourway] anymore. Only one ruler remains, his name is Katanga.F: Mm-hmm.T: And also Msiri: Pande, Kashipo, Nkwande."F: Mm-hmm.T: Let me explain: All those were left but I think their leader was Katanga [Painting 15: Chief Katanga and Chief Msiri].F: Mm-hmm.T: So, actually, when [Stanley]

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F: mm/T: ni kweli pale alikwenda kule:Katanga naye huku: alibakia: maladi/ anapata maladi/ sawa vilebalikuwa barafiki na Msiri: njo alikuwa rafiki wa kweli/ alimuita/kwake/ anamuikalisha/ anamuelezea/ Msiri/ wewe uko rafiki yangu/ namiye: kuzala kwangu nalizala: nakuwa kuona tu mutoto yanguanakuwa kidogo: ni mwanaume/ yee bado kukomea/ nikipima kukamataniite mutu wa mu mukini yangu niupe busultani: mitapoteza:byote/ kumbe vile: weye sawa uko rafiki eh? ubebe inchi yangu hii/ na bintu yangu: na babibi yangu:na mbuzi yangu: na: byote tu na mali yangu/F: mm/T: uchunge/ kama mutoto huyu anakomea: bon: uta: utapa:utamurudishia bitu yake: byote/voilà: ni ile minakuambia kama nitableau inasema: [reads from painting] grand chef Katanga fait ses adieux à Msiri/ mm? lecriminel/ en tout cas notez bien: Msiri est arrière grand père de:ex-Godefroid Munongo: ancien ministre de l'interieur: del'ex-Katanga eh?F: mm/T: bon: voilà/ ni nkambo yake naMunongo eh? ile ni adisi/

left, Katanga remained here, sick. He fell ill and because he andMsiri were friends -- he was really a close friend -- he calledhim to his house. He made him sit down and told him this: "Msiri,you are my friend. Among my offspring I only have one smallchild, a boy. He is not grown up yet. If I try to appoint someonefrom my village to be the chief I will lose everything. Therefore,seeing as you are my friend, take this country of mine. Take mypossessions, my wives, my goats, everything, and my also my wealth.F: Mm-hmm.T: Guard it. When this child hasgrown up, give him back all that belongs to him." There you are,this what I am telling you and what it says on the picture: "Thegreat chief Katanga takes his leave from Msiri, the criminal."At any rate, take good note, Msiri is the great-grandfather ofMunongo, formerly Godefroid, who used to be minister of the interior of the former Katanga,right?F: Mm-hmm.T: So, here we are. He is a forefather of Munongo, right? This is the story.

21. bon: voilà alimuelezea vilealimuelezea muzuri: kisha Msiri:anabakia sasa: kisha Katanga anakufa/ kisha kufa kwa Katanga: Msiri anabakia/ na busultani: nabyote/ kisha kubakia na busultani na byote: anaangalia sasa: ngambona ngambo/ mukini na busultani: bunakuwa butamu/ na anasema sawanitafanya gani? kumbe peupe pa hapa: miye nitakamata paka mutotowenyewe baliniachia: niue/ ni kweli: alikamata mutu ule:alikwenda naye: [pointing to the painting] munaona ni ku mpembeniya mukini: na tuburi ya baba yake ya mutoto: njo ile bado ...?...kutoka majani/ ya kusema kama ilikawa/ alikamata mutoto: anakatakichwa: anaua [Painting 16: Msiri Kills Katanga's Son]/ na kishakuua mutoto: alibakia sultani: wa: bantu ya Katanga: na sultani waBunkeya/ ni vile minasema le fils

21. Fine, so he explained all this to him at length. Then Katanga died while Msiri stayed alive [andtook over] the office of chief andeverything. Having been left with the office of chief and everything, he looked about; hesaw the village and found the office of chief to be sweet. Hesaid: "What am I going to do? Here, in this open place, I am

just going to grab the child they 18

left in my care and kill him. It's true, he took this person and wentwith away him [pointing to painting] you see [this place] alongside the village, and thereis the burial ground with the

grave 19 of this child's father,still not overgrown, which would have meant that it had been therefor some time. He took the child and killed it by beheading

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du chef Katanga: executé parMsiri: l'ami de son père/ kishaku: kisha kumuua: anabakia busultani: kuonyesha hakukuwamuntu tena aliweza kusema: kitu/F: mm/

[Painting 16: Msiri Kills Katanga's Son]. After he hadkilled the child, he remained chief of the people of Katanga as well as chief of Bunkeya. It wasas I say [on the painting]: "The son of chief Katanga executed byMsiri, his father's friend." After he had killed him, he kept theoffice of chief and no one dared to expose [his crime] or to sayanything about it.F: Mm-hmm.

22. T: siku moja: bale ba: Bodson/ alianza kutelemuka: sawa balipatamarapports kule Stanley alikwenda: juu ya chef Katanga: balimukuta kama anaisha kufa/F: mm/T: balimukuta Msiri sasa/F: mm/T: balimuelezea: Msiri: tunakuyahumu: mu Bunkeya: tunatafuta tupandishe: drapeau yetu: ya: yabaBelges/ sawa bo bote balikuwa baPortugais mais balikuwa:balikuwa: payés par les Belges/eh?F: mm/T: par le roi des Belges/banumutumikia nani: sultani wa: wa baBelges/ sawa vile tunatafutatutumikie: eh: tupandishe drapeau yetu: umu mu Bunkeya/ Msirialisema: haiwezekane/ kupandisha drapeau humu mu inchi yangu/ naakujua ata maana drapeau/ mais alikatala tu kwa kukatala asema:haiwezekane kuweka ile nguo: ndani ya inchi yangu/F: mm/T: bon [chuckles]/ bon/ kishayake: Bodson: kwa kichwa yake nguvu: alisema mitapandisha tu/alikamata drapeau: anaanza kupandisha/ Msiri alitoka: nalance/ mush: mukuki/F: na mukuki/T: na kumutwanga Bodson: na kumuua[Painting 17: Msiri Kills Bodson]/ ile nkundi ya: ya Msiri: yaBodson: iliona vile: ilibeba bunduki: na kumupika: Msiri/ kishakumupika Msiri: Msiri: alikufa/

22. One day, Bodson and his group began to descend [on Katanga]. They had reports about chiefKatanga from the place where Stanley had gone. [When theyarrived] it turned out that he was already dead.F: Mm-hmm.T: So now they met Msiri.F: Mm-hmm.T: They explained to Msiri: "Wehave come here to Bunkeya and we want to raise our flag, that ofthe Belgians." All of them were Portuguese, but they were paid bythe Belgians, right?F: Mm-hmm.T: By the King of the Belgians.They worked for the ruler of Belgium. So [they said]: "We wantto raise our flag here in Bunkeya." Msiri said: "Raising aflag here in my country is not acceptable." He did not even know what "flag," meant but he refusedanyway. "This piece of cloth must not be put up inside my country."F: Mm-hmm.T: Fine [chuckles], fine. ThenBodson, being a strong-headed person, said, "I am going to raiseit nevertheless. He took the flag and began to raise it. Msiri came out with a lance, a spear.F: A spear.T: He struck Bodson and killed him[Painting 17: Msiri Kills Bodson]. When the group of Msiri, or ratherof Bodson, saw this, a gun was brought and fired at Msiriwhereupon he died.

23. kisha kufa kwa Msiri: bali: balikamata mwili yake: kukata kichwa: kutosha kichwa [Painting 18: Msiri Is Beheaded]/

23. After Msiri had died they took his body and cut off the head, which they kept apart [Painting 18: Msiri Is Beheaded].

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F: mm/T: kisha kutosha kichwa: allez:balibeba ile kichwa: na bale balibeba: namu: balipatikana bantumweushi: balianza kutembea na baexplorateurs ya: ya baPortugaisbale/F: mm/T: bon/ balibeba ile kichwa: kuweka ku muti: kwanza kuenda naye/ na walienda kipande murefu kabisa na ile: kichwa/F: mm/T: muntu wa kwanza: alisema kamaminachoka/ unachoka namna gani? twende: asema apana minachokasana/ muntu mi ananikombole/ bashi kusema tu vile: nazania na yeyealianguka pale: anakufa/ muntu wa pili alibeba/ anakufa/ nazania:kule kote ilienda ile kichwa ni paka ule alibeba: alikufa/ ulealibeba: alikufa/ sawa vile minakuelezea asema kama ni adisibanaanzia kutuelezea na shee ku bankambo: tulikuta na sheye: nikweli ile kichwa: atujue na kule: iliendaka/ kama ni ku bulaya? kamaiko mu maMusées? ou bien kama ikoku nyumba ya Léopold deux? kamaiko kwa nani? atujue na sasa hapa/F: mm/T: aah/ bon: nazania wa: nani:busultani sasa ya bantu mweushi inapotea sawa vile nilikuelezeakabisa kabisa: akuna: banaéliminerbote/

F: Mm-hmm.F: Then they took the head andcarried it off. And those who were carrying this head found blackpeople who began to travel together with those Portugueseexplorers.F: Mm-hmm.T: Alright. The way they carriedthis head was to put it on a pole and walk with it. And they traveled very far indeed with thishead.F: Mm-hmm.T: [Eventually] the first man [tocarry the head] would say: "I am tired." "What do you mean, you'retired [the others would say], let's go." "No, I am very tiredand some one should relieve me." I believe what happened is this: Nosooner had [the carrier of the pole] spoken in such a way than hedropped dead right there. Then a second person carried [the pole]. He died. I think wherever thishead went, the person who carried it died. The person who carried itdied. I am telling you this because it's a story we were firsttold by our forefathers, we had already found it. In all truth, wedon't know where this head went. Is it in Europe, in some Museum,in the house of Leopold II, or with whom? Up to this day, wedon't know.F: Mm-hmm.T: Yes, well, as I told you, I think that was when thesovereignty of black people was definitely lost. No one was left,they had eliminated all [the rulers].

24. bon: bali: pata kupandishadrapeau: balipata kupandisha drapeau: ya kwanza: ya wa: Belges/c'est à dire: njo tableauminakuonyesha kama début de lacolonie belge [Painting 19: The Beginning of Belgian Colonization]/F: mm/T: bon/ sawa vile ilikuwa début dela colonie belge/ parole ya chef de l'état/ je cite: sous prétextequ'ils étaient venus en Afriquepour nous civiliser: les premiersblancs: pioniers de cette

24. Alright [reaches for painting]. They managed to raise the flag. They managed to raisethe first Belgian flag. That is to say, this is the painting I amshowing you, where it says: Beginning of the Belgian Colony[Painting 19: The Beginning of Belgian Colonization].F: Mm-hmm.T: Alright. This is what thebeginning of the Belgian Colony was like. A word of the Head ofState -- I quote [reads from painting]: "Under the pretext of

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civilisation: commenceront parvider nos pays respectives de leur substance fondamentale/ c'estvrai: pale balikuya mara ya kwanza: walikuya: tuliwazaka ni mubusultani/ bale baliisha kupoteza banduku yetu/ kumbe ilikuwa mawazoya kusema: sasa tutapoteza tu: na ku mwisho/

having come to Africa to civilize us, the first whites, "pioneers ofthat civilization," were to empty each of our countries of itsfundamental substance." This is true; when they first arrived wethought they had come to take over from those rules who had caused our brothers to perish. Then werealized: Now we shall be lost forever.

25. mawazo ya kwanza: ya Léopolddeux: aliwaza kutupatia:indépendance [Painting 20: TheCongo Free State]/ na ileindépendance: aikukuwe kweli/ F: mm/T: [aside] ...?...: na ileindépendance haikukuwe kweli/ilikuwa vers mille huit cent quatre vingt cinq/F: mm/T: mais utaweza kunihurumia sawavile mu histoire: eh: dans deux jours: radio ya Kinshasa: apa sasamu mille neuf cent septante quatre: radio ya Kinshasa ilisemakama: eh: mu informations ile nali: shikia/ ilisema kama:indépendance ya Zaire ilikuwa ya:ya Congo: ile: nani Léopold deuxalisigner: ilikuwa mille huit cent quatre vingt quatre/F: mm/T: mu Vivi/ et pourtant: kuko:kunapatikana mama moja: ule alikuwa pa ile wakati:balipandisha: balisemaindépendance ya mille huit centquatre vingt quatre quatre vingtcinq/F: mm/T: mais d'après l'histoire minalifunda ni mille huit cent quatre vingt cinq/ bon ni mambo ya radio ile ilisema/ F: mm/T: bon: kufwata kwa histoire: nimu juillet mille huit cent quatre vingt cinq: njo alisigner:indépendant/ ni kweli: sawaalisigner indépendant: bantubalikuwa chini ya butumwa ya: bazungu/ bazungu balikuya: kidoogo: sana/ na baliweka:busultani yabo/F: mm/

25. At first, Leopold II had the idea to give us independence [Painting 20: The Congo FreeState]. But that independence was not real.F: Mm-hmm.T: [aside] ...?... That independence was not real. This was around 1885.F: Mm-hmm.T: But you must excuse me because,two days ago, in [a program on]history, or rather in the news, I heard Radio Kinshasa say -- now in1974 -- that the independence of Zaire, that is, of the Congo, the one signed by Leopold II, was in1884.F: Mm-hmm.T: At Vivi. They even found awoman who was there at the time when they raised [the flag tomark] what they called the independence 1884-85.F: Mm-hmm.T: But according to the history I learned it was in July 1885. Alright, this is something the radio said.F: Mm-hmm.T: Alright, to get on with thehistory, it was in July 1885 that he signed independence. It istrue, he signed independence, but the people were slaves under thewhites. When the whites [first] arrived, there were only very fewof them, and they imposed their rule.F: Mm-hmm.

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26. T: kisha kuweka busultani yabo: mwaka inapita: mwaka inapita: ku Kabinda: kulikuwa:sultani moja jina yake: Lumpungu [Painting 21: The Hanging of ChiefLumpungu]/F: mm/T: Lumpungu: sawa vile alikuwasultani: nayee alikuwa kichwa/ sawa vile alikuwa tu: namna yakuéliminer: nani: civilisationzairoise: eeh? sawa vilenalikuelezea: balimuwaza: kumupata sasa: Lumpungu/F: mm/T: balisema kama: mutoto moja mwanamuke: alikuwa bibi wa muzungu: alitoka uku: Shaba/ sasa Shaba: wakati ile ilikuwa Katanga/ F: mm/ [noise of rummaging among paintings] tuendelee tu/T: ah bon/ kutoka huku Shaba/F: mm/T: bon/ alikwenda kutembea kuleKabinda/ alikuwa na mutoto yake/ ule mutoto alikuwa mulâtre eh?sawa vile alikuwa ya muzungu/ alifika: kule: aliingia Kabinda/Lumpungu: vile balisema: d'aprèsmajugements yake/ balimubamba:alibamba ule mutoto mwanamuke: na kumuua/ na kumula/ bon: balifanyamaenquêtes: temps col: mu tempsile ya ba: temps colonial:balifanya maenquêtes: balipatakama ni Lumpungu aliuua ule mutotomwanamuke: na kumula/ na walimufunga:F: na kumula?T: na kumula/ kuua kudya/F: aah/T: kudya/F: ni kumula/ mm/T: eeh/ bon: nazania walimufungaLumpungu/ balimujuger: ku tribunal: na balisema kama:Lumpungu: eko condamné: à mort/ nikweli: baliita bantu ya mukini: baKasai muzhima: ba Congo muzhima: balipatikana mu Kabinda/ nabalikamata Lumpungu: balimutundika/ mais nasahabu shiku ya mwezi: na wakati inyewe/

26. So they set up their government. The years went by, the years went by. At Kabinda therewas a chief by the name of Lumpungu [Painting 21: The Hangingof Chief Lumpungu].F: Mm-hmm.T: Lumpungu was a chief, and aheadstrong one at that. [The whites] were looking for ways toeliminate Zairean civilization, as I explained to you, didn't I? Sonow they schemed to get Lumpungu.F: Mm-hmm.T: They said that a young woman, who was the wife of a white man, came from Shaba here -- now Shaba, Katanga in those days.F: Mm-hmm. [Noise of rummaging among paintings] Let's just go on.T: Alright then. She came from Shaba here.F: Mm-hmm.T: Alright, she traveled toKabinda, together with her child. That child was a mulatto, right?Because it was by a white man. She arrived and entered Kabinda.Lumpungu -- at least that is what they said [later] in the courtfindings -- had her apprehended, killed her, and ate her. So theycarried out investigations [as it was usual] in colonial times, theymade investigations and found that it was Lumpungu who had killed andeaten that young woman and they locked him up...

F: And ate her? 20

T: And ate her. Kill and eat.F: Aha.T: To eat.F: It [means] to eat her. Mm-hmm.T: Yes. Alright, I think theylocked up Lumpungu, tried him in a court and came up with theverdict: Lumpungu is sentenced to die. It's true, they calledtogether the people from the village, people from all over theKasai, all over the Congo who happened to live in Kabinda. They took Lumpungu and hanged him. ButI forgot the day of the month, even the year.

27. bon: sawa vile balitundika Lumpungu: ni kweli tunaitikia: Lumpungu alipoteza: mutu/ mais:

27. Alright, they hanged Lumpungu and we admitted the fact that Lumpungu had destroyed a human

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ile wakati: F: mm/T: ile wakati: ku kosa ya Lumpungu ile alifanya:F: mm/T: ile wakati: benyewe balikuwakutucolonizer bazungu: balikuya: nabo beko nakamata bantu/ tenabalikamata mingi: kuliko/ bon: iko sawa vile nazania: chef de l'étatalisema kama: eh: kulikuwamasystèmes: sporadiques: quoiencore? mais: naoublier:F: mm/T: bon/ ni ile sawa vileminakuelezea: ilikuwa: balianza kukamata batu/ nabo vilevile: bobalitundika Lumpungu juu ya kubamba ule muntu alibamba/ sawamutumbula/ she tunaita ?sawa mutumbula/ nabo balikuwa na ba: simba: bulaya/ mu Français: liond'Europe [Painting 22: Lions from Europe]/ bon: ilikuwa je: ilikuyakama: bushiku bunaingia:F: mm/T: wee muntu ukitoke: bushiku:wala ku parcelle yako: wende ku musalani: ku WC: utaweza kuta:wala mbili: wala tatu/ na mule ndani: baliengager banduku yetu:bantu mweushi balikuwa ndani njo banaanza kutumika/ kulikuwamuzungu moya ataweza commander: atafika: banakamata muntu ule/banamuvula manguo yake: yote:mapièces yake: na bintu yake yote:kuacha paka pale/ allez: kubeba:kwenda naye/ na kumupoteza: sawa vile Lumpungu alifanya/ maishakukuwa hata muntu moja: aliulizaka muzungu: wala na leo?ile/ nazani ni adisi minafika pale juu ya kuonyesha/ sawa hapasasa: bataweza kuongolea huyu muntu: kama afike karibu:batamukamata: na kumufanya paka vile kumuvula nguo na kumufunga nkamba: na kumupeleka: fasi ile:atujue/ na wale watu: abana adisi: abana abari: beko paka vile: naleo ?ile/ hatujue kama: walianza: kubakula: ou bien: kama:walibapoteza mu njia: gani/ atujue/ bon/ bon: nazania: c'estça/F: mm/T: unashikia sawa: adisi ya ile eh?

being. But, at that time.F: Mm-hmm.T: At that time, while Lumpungu committed this crime.F: Mm-hmm.T: At the same time, the whitesthemselves were busy colonizing us; they took people too, manymore than [he did]. Alright. I think it was as the Head of Statewho said, there were "sporadic systems" -- what was it again, Iforgot.F: Mm-hmm.T: Alright, what I am telling youis that they also began to take people, they who had hanged Lumpumgu because he had thisperson apprehended. Like the Mutumbula, we call them Mutumbula.They were the Simba Bulaya, "Lions from Europe' in French [Painting22: Lions from Europe]. Alright, how was this? When it got dark.F: Mm-hmm.T: If you, a [black] person, left your property at night because youwanted to go to the toilet, you might meet two or three of them.Among them there were our brothers whom they had hired; black peoplewere in it, they began to work [for them]. One white person wouldbe in command, and once he got there they grabbed that person.They took his clothes, his papers, all he had on him, and left themright there. Then they carried him away and killed him just asLumpungu has done. And there was never a black man who would haveasked a white man [about that], even to this day [there's not]. That's why I thought I wanted toshow this story here. Even right now they may be waiting for this[black] person, and when he gets close they grab him, and what theydo to him is keep his clothes and tie him up with a rope. Then theycarry him away to this place we do not know. Those people -- this isnot just a tale, nor something you gossip about -- that's how theyare, to this very day. We don't know whether they ate them, or howthey disposed of them. Alright. Alright, I think that's that.F: Mm-hmm.

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F: ndiyo/ ndiyo/T: unasikia kabisa eh? njo ilikuwa batumbula/ she tuna...?... asema batumbula/F: batumbula/T: eeh: ataanza kuvala kotimweusi: murefu: na: chapeau na lampi/ et puis bushiku: ou bien:sawa baba yangu: mi par example: alipatikana na ile: nani: alikuwaanatumika kwa Amato Frères/F: mm/T: siku moja alitoka bushiku:kwenda: ku: ku kazi/ alifika katikati ya njia: alipatana nabo/sawa vile ni muntu/ na wee uko muntu/ kama unasema Swahilikiloko: ts: [claps] batakubamba/ mais kama uko makali na weye:utakuwa na Mungu ya kupita/ nayee bali: kosanaka nabo bushiku bule: na kusemana: sema kweli? asema:eeh/ alafu unapona leo/ baba: alipita tu: kufika ku mbele:anaanza mbio na vile alikwenda kuingia ku kazi/ aliezeleakabazungu yake ya kazi wakati: balisema haujue? ile fasi: muzungumwenyewe alisema: ile fasi iko simba ya bulaya mingi/ nabo bali:jua kama ni kweli simba ya bulaya: iko mu njia/ ni batu bazima:balianza kubamba bantu/F: mm/T: ahah/F: bon/

T: You have heard stories about this, right?F: Yes, yes.T: You really heard about it, right? They were the Batumbula. We call them Batumbula.F: Batumbula.T: Yes, he'd wear a long, blackcoat and a [miner's] hat with a lamp and then, at night... My ownfather, for instance, once got caught up in this. At that time heworked for [the firm of] AmatoFrères.F: Mm-hmm.T: One night he'd left for work.When he was halfway there, he ran into them. Now this person [whoworks for them] is a black man, and so are you. If you just say aword in Swahili, [claps] right away they are going to grab you.But if you are fierce [and put up resistance], God will help you toget away. In his case they missed each other in the dark and theytalked to each other: "Are you sure [he won't come along]?""Yes," he said. So you go free today. Father passed them and whenhe was ahead of them he started running, and so he got into theplace where he worked. He then told his white supervisors about it. They said -- the white manhimself said -- "Don't you know that this is a place where there amany Lions from Europe?" They knew that there were really Lions fromEurope on the street. They were living persons who went aboutgrabbing black people. F: Mm-hmm.T: Aha.F: Alright.

28. T: bon voilà [Painting 23: TheArrival of the Railroad at Sakania]/ nazania wakati ile:tunakuya sasa: mu mille neuf cent et cinq/ mille neuf cent et cinq:bon: bazungu balileta rail/ baliingisha mara ya kwanza: umu muZaire/ na ile rail: ili: aikuwa KDL sawa ?hivi tunaita sasa:ilikuwa CFK/ ilikuwa Chemin de Fer du Katanga/F: mm/T: eeh/ na ili: aikutoka hapa:Congo: apana: ilitokea: ku Afrique

28. T: Alright, here you are [Painting 23: The Arrival of the Railroad at Sakania]. Now we cometo the time -- it was in 1905, yes, 1905 -- when the whitesbrought in the railway. For the first time, they brought it hereinto Zaire. And this railway was not the KDL as we call it now, itwas the CFK. That was for Chemin de Fer du Katanga.F: Mm-hmm.T: Yes. It did not start fromhere, from the Congo; it came from

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du Sud/ baliunga ile rail: njo ileinapita: weee: mpaka: leo ile inafika ku: Ilebo/ ingine inafikaDilolo/F: mm/T: sawa vile ilifika Sakania: mumille neuf cent et cinq: ile ya: Lubumbashi: nazania: papier nawezakusahabu: najua madates ile: ku papier/

South Africa. They made theconnection and then it continued even farther, so that by today onebranch reaches Ilebo and another, Dilolo.F: Mm-hmm.T: So it came to Sakania in 1905.The date when it arrived in Lubumbashi I am afraid I forgot,but I know the dates; [they are] on a piece of paper.

29. bon: nazania: ni: mufano ma ...?... tunaingia sasa paka mu colonie/ eeh? bon: mille neuf cent et six:F: mm/T: balicréer Gécamines/ bon:banacréer Gécamines: banaanzakuyengayo/ nazani unaona vile:beko naanza kuyenga: banaanza ilecheminée [Painting 24: TheFounding of the Mining Company]:F: mm/ T: kule ule ?beko nakwenda: navile cheminée iliisha/ sikukidogo: bazungu sasa: balikuyamingi: na kwanza: kuyenga inchi ya: ya Congo/

29. Alright, now I think we have an example of ...?... Now we get into [the time of] the colony, right? Alright, 1906.F: Mm-hmm.T: They created Gécamines.Alright, they created Gécaminesand began construction. I thinkyou see how they began building that smoke stack [Painting 24: TheFounding of the Mining Company].F: Mm-hmm.T: They got as far as they wanted(?) and thus the smoke stack wasfinished. Soon after -- now the whites were many -- they began to build the country of the Congo.

30. bon/ kipande ingine/F: mm/ unataka kupumuzika kiloko?T: nitapumuzika?F: utapumuzika kiloko?T: apana tuendelee:F: ao: kamata nani: ...?... ver?T: bon/F: ça va?T: aah ça va/[turning the tape on the original recording]

30. Alright, now to another chapter.F: Mm-hmm. Would you like to rest a little?T: I should rest?F: You want to rest a little?T: No, let's go on.F: Or you take a drink?T: Fine.F: You're alright?T: Yes, I am.[turning the tape on the original recording]

31. F: bon: sawa vile ulisema:T: bon/F: unaanza sasa: kipande ingine/T: sawa vile nalikuambia kama:alikukuwa kutucoloniser: mais: ilikuwa mawazo ingine eh? nikweli: mu ile wakati: mu mille neuf cent vingt et un: à peu près:kulikuwa muntu moja: jina yake Simon Kimbangu [Painting 25: SimonKimbangu in Court]/ ule Simon Kimbangu: akukuwe politicien/akukuwe: quoi? akukuwe prophète/ou bien imposteur eh? alikuwa ni muntu tu nayee Mungu alitumiaakili: juu ya kuenea ku: kujisaidia/ sawa hivi hapa niko

31. F: Fine, as you were saying.T: Alright.F: You now start with another chapter.T: As I've told you, this was thetime when they colonized us. But then other ideas came up, right?Indeed, at that time, around 1921, there was a man, his name wasSimon Kimbangu [Painting 25: Simon Kimbangu in Court]. This SimonKimbangu, he was not a politician, he was not -- what am I lookingfor -- a prophet, or an impostor, you understand? He was a person towhom God had given enough reason to help and support himself. As to

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nafanya dessin/ ni kuisadia/ sifanye politique: shinapoliticien/F: mm/T: mais niko historien/ nitaweza kufwata histoire hapa lakini/ bon/

the drawing I've made here, [I do this] in order to help. I don't dopolitics, I am not a politician.F: Mm-hmm.T: Rather, I am a historian and what I can do here is follow history.

32. voilà kuisaidia: Mungualipatia akili ...?... yako nako: pata: ku: kama muntu iko maladi:ataweza kufika: anamu: mwe: analomba kwa Mungu: anapona/ kamaanafika kwa mukini: ataweza kuta muntu anavunjika: anamulamusha/bon: eh: bazungu eh? baliona kama: ile akili: ya ule muntu: ilikuyamingi eh? amukuya mufano eh? baliwaza kumu: poteza/ ni kwa vilenitaweza ku: kukuomba/ sawa vile niko na ile papier: nitawezakusoma ile partie yote ya mambo yake na mufano alizaliwa: inatuelezea histoire yake: nautaishikia/ mais nitasoma muFrançais kwa lakini/ F: mm/T: aah/ [reads from a newspaper cutting; transcription ignores phonetic particularities]Il est né dans la localité deKamba/ sur la rive gauche du Sankuru: dans la zone decataractes/ dont le chef-lieuétait Thysville/ actuellement:Banza Ngungu/ la date de sa naissance est fixée aux environsde mille huit cent quatre vingt etun/ Kimbangu n'a pas connu samère/ morte peu après sanaissance/ il fût élevé par unetante: adepte de l'églisebaptiste/ et attachée à la missionprotestante: de Ngombe Lutete/ ouKimbangu fait ses étudesprimaires/ orateur: remarquable/ il devint catéchiste/ c'est ledébut de sa vocation religieuse/en dix neuf cent treize: Kimbanguépousa Maria: Wilu/ et eu avecelle trois enfants/ Kisolo Kieda:Ndialungana: Kiangani: et Ndiangenda/ ce dernier estaujourd'hui le chef spirituel del'église Kimbanguiste/ durantl'exercise de ses fonctions: Kimbangu dut souvent affronter dessorciers/ le guérisseurs: leschefs traditionnels: et même lessimples habitants: de villages:

32. To get back to "helping" with this, God gave you whatever knowledge you have. A sick personwould come to him and he [Kimbangu] would pray to God, andhe would be healed. He would get to a village and meet a person whohad broken [a limb] and help him up. Alright, the whites saw thatthis man's knowledge was great, right? And that this could not goon, right? So they were planning to get rid of him. Permit me --because I have this piece of paper with me -- to read to you the entire part that is about histribulations, also about his birth. It explains to us hishistory, and you are going to understand it. But I am going toread it in French.F: Mm-hmm.T: Yes. [Reads from a newspaper cutting in French]:"He was born in the place Kamba,on the left shore of the Sankuru, in the region of the cataractswhose administrative center was Thysville, now Banza Ngungu. Hisdate of birth is given around 1881. Kimbangu did not know hismother who had died soon after his birth. He was brought up by anaunt who was a member of the Baptist church and linked to theprotestant mission at Ngombe Lutete where Kimbangu went to elementary school. Being aremarkable orator, he became a catechist. This is the beginningof his religious vocation. In 1913 Kimbangu married Maria Wilu andhad three children with her: Kisolo Kieda, NdialunganaKiangani, and Ndiangenda. The latter is today the spiritual leaders of the Kimbangist church.When he exercised his functions, Kimbangu often had to confrontsorcerers, healers, and traditional chiefs, even thesimple villager to whom he

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qu'il évangilisait/ car: toutvoyait d'abord en lui un frèreperdu/ vendu au blanc: et qui voulait détruire leurs valeurstraditionnels/ mais: il prêchaitd'une façon si convaincante etautoritaire: qu'il finit par les: convertir/ Kimbangu fascinait desgens/ ceux-ci croyèrent peu aprèsqu'il était envoyé: un envoyé deDieu/ un prophète/ il aurait mêmeopéré: des miracles/ guerir: desmalades: et ressusciter des: des morts/ des milliers des gens malades: quittaient leursvillages/ situés parfois àplusieurs jours de marche pouraller voir Kimbangu/ ses succes lui attirent: évidemmentl'hostilité de: del'administration coloniale/ et del'église catholique/ au mois deJuin dix neuf cent vingt et un: Kimbangu est arrêté/ mais parvint:à s'échapper durant le mêlée: quisuit son arreta: son arrestation/à partir de cette periode: ilpoursuit ses oeuvres dans laclandestinité/ il est recherchépendant deux mois/ deux mois degloire: qui confirment sa renomméeprophétique/ le premier septembredix neuf cent vingt et un: Kimbangu se livre aux autoritéscoloniales/ cent vingt cinq personnes sont arrêtées avec lui/le cortège de prisonniers: digneset fiers: chantant: des hymnes/ est conduit à Thysville/ lelendemain matin: on aurait dit un jour de fête/ le trois octobre dixneuf cent vingt et un à Thysville/Simon Kimbangu est jugé par unconseil de guerre: avec douze de ses disciples/ accusé d'avoirporté atteinte à la sûreté del'état/ il est condamné à la peinede mort/ Léopoldville ordonne lasuspension: et l'execution: enattendant le decision de Bruxelles/ qui arrive au mois de novembre/ compte tenu de lanature: foncière: religieuse: dumouvement: du manque absolu deviolence: et de meurtre: chez leprophète/ il semblait que la peined'emprisonnement à perpetuitéétait plus équitable etconvenable/ peu après: Kimbangu

preached. All saw in him above all the wayward brother, sold to thewhite man, and some one who wanted to destroy their traditionalvalues. But his preaching was so convincing and authoritative thathe ended up converting them. Kimbangu fascinated people. Theysoon believed that he was sent, an envoy from God, a prophet. He waseven said to have worked wonders such as healing the sick, andraising the dead. By the thousands, sick people left theirvillages that often were several days' marching away, just to seeKimbangu. Obviously, his success drew the hostility of the colonialadministration and the Catholic church. In the month of June, 1921, Kimbangu is arrested, butmanaged to escape during the scuffle that followed hisarrestation. From that time on he pursued his work in secret. Asearch is out on him during two months, two months of glory thatconfirmed his reputation as a prophet. On September 1, 1921Kimbangu turns himself in to the colonial authorities. One hundred and twenty-four persons arearrested together with him. The caravan of prisoners, who werefull of dignity and pride and were singing hymns, was conducted toThysville. The next morning it was like a holiday. On October 3, 1921Kimbangu was tried by a military court, together with twelve of hisdisciples. Accused of crimes against the security of the state,he is given the death penalty. Leopoldville ordered that theexecution be suspended waiting for a decision from Brussels whicharrived in the month of November. Taking into account the fundamentally religious nature ofthe movement and the total absence of violence and murder associatedwith the prophet it appeared that a life prison sentence was moreequitable and convenient. Soon after Kimbangu is transferred...[aside to me] It's [almost]

finished." 21

F: Mm-hmm.T: [resumes reading]

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est transferé [aside to me] c'estfini: F: mm/T: transferé à la fameuse prisoncentrale d'Elisabethville/ qui a eu l'honneur d'heberger beaucoupd'Africains aux idées avancées/des precautions spéciales/ étaientprisent pour l'empêcher: decontinuer son oeuvre/ en somme: illui était interdit de prêcher: laparole de Dieu/ consideré comeherétique: on decida de leconvertir au catholicisme/ avantsa mort: qui intervint aprèstrente ans de bagne: Kimbanguaccept: accepta le baptême del'église romaine/ de main del'abbé ?Sankoto/ ainsi lesautorités coloniales: avaientréussi à briser Kimbangu: mais sapensée: a brisé leur chaines/ lecatéchis te Mukongo apparaitaujourd'hui: comme un veritable martyr/ la secte religieuseprotestance: protestante pardon: qu'il n'a aquis après sonarrestation: d'abord dans laclandestinité: puis au grand jour:s'érige aujourd'hui: aah: unegrande église chrétienne/ et sesnombreux adeptes: considèrentKimbangu comme un prophète/nombreux: sont les Africains quiavaient tempté de créer: desmouvements politico-religieux àKinshasa/ ou ailleurs/ dans notre pays/ mais aucun d'eux n'avaitreçu... [passage skipped?]: on sesouviendra: d'un certain JohnPanda/ qui dans les années vingtpubliait déjà dans les journaux deKinshasa des écrits absolummementrévolutionnaires/ même celui làest tombé dans l'oubli/F: bon/

"...transferred to the famous central prison of Elisabethvillewhich had the honor to house many Africans with progressive ideas.Special precautions were taken to prevent [Kimbangu] from continuinghis work. In sum, he was forbidden to preach the word of God. Sincehe was considered a heretic, it was decided to convert him toCatholicism before his death which came after thirty years in prison.Kimbangu accepted the baptism of the Roman church from the hands ofAbbé ?Sankoto. Thus the colonialauthorities had managed to breakKimbangu. But his thought broke their chains. This K ongocatechist appears today as a veritable martyr. The protestant sect that became his only afterhis arrest, first in secret, then publicly, today has the standingof a great Christian church, and its many follower considerKimbangu a prophet. Many are the Africans who tried to createpolitico-religious movements in Kinshasa or elsewhere in ourcountry. But none had received ... [passage skipped?]. A certain JohnPanda is remembered who, in the twenties, already published absolutely revolutionary writingsin the papers of Kinshasa. But that one is forgotten."F: Alright.

33. T: voilà ni sawa vileminakuelezea histoire ya Kimbangu ni vilevile: tableau ya pili[Painting 26: Simon Kimbangu and John Panda in Prison]/F: mm/ ah: ule ulisoma sasa: [aside] nazani na: ina : tuko na mwisho ya bande hapa/ non: kiloko kinabakia/ T: kiloko kinabakia eeh?F: aah/T: ni yote mbili: [shows this and the preceding side by side]

33. T: Now, as I am explaining to you the history of Simon Kimbangu[takes up next painting] there is also a second picture [Painting 26: Simon Kimbangu and John Pandain Prison].F: Mm-hmm. Let me see, what you just read [aside] -- I think we are at the end of the tape, no, there is a little left.T: There is a little left?F: Yes.T: In both of them [shows this and

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F: yote mbili/T: naifwata mambo yake: eh/F: kumbe: ile histoire ya Kimbangu: inam: T: inamalizika/F: ile ya pili ...?...T: voilà na Panda:F: ya mpili/T: bon/F: aah: John Panda/T: aah John Panda/F: aah/ John Panda/ John Panda...[long pause]T: bon/F: John Panda:

the preceding picture side by side]F: Both of them. T: I followed his tribulations. Yes.F: Then this history of Kimbangu is now...T: ...finished. F: The second one ...?...T: Here he is together with Panda.F: The second one.T: Alright.F: Ah, John Panda.T: Yes, John Panda.F: I see. John Panda. John Panda... [ long pause]T: Alright.F: John Panda.

34. T: bon/ ilikuwa vile: sawa vile sasa tunabakia bule: nazania: mu mille huit: mu: mu mille neufcent quarante et un/ le vingt et un juin: Kinshasa: ilijulikanakama ville/ na: mu: baliweka monument ya: Léopold deux[Painting 27: The Monument to Leopold II]/F: mm/T: wazungu/ na walitosha: ilebintu yetu yote/ sawa maoeuvres yetu: eeh: ma: maoeuvres yetu toutcourt: sawa mastatues: tout ça:yote ilitupwa/ na ilibebwa: naku?niengeni/ na balituelezea kama: hii bitu munaweka: ni madawa/hapana kuitika iko bintu ya bule/ eeh? tutaweka mamonuments yetu:F: mm/T: iko kitu muzuri/ na sawa masanamu ya Maria: et tout ça: ikokintu ya bien kabisa/ kwa kufwata: tuliona monument ya: Léopold deux:iliweka mu Kinshasa: wakati la kufa: ku Bruxelles: ku: ile wakatianaruga na: na farasi/F: mm/T: aah: ?sawa iko muntu anamupata mafarasi:F: farasi?T: ah farasi ya yake ile:F: mm/

T: ya kukaka 5 nayo: ilikuwa kama ni ndani ya: zimu ya maji/F: mm/T: na alikufaka/ na walisema sawaalikuwa roi du Congo: batakamata:bataweka/ na ile ya Banza Kongo: ilipotea: kwa lote: akukuwe

34. What happened was that we now had nothing left. I think it was on June 21, 1941, that Kinshasawas recognized as a town and they erected the monument of Leopold II[Painting 27: The Monument to Leopold II].F: Mm-hmm.T: The whites [did that], and theydid away with everything we hadcreated, our works -- how shall I say, well, just our works, such asstatues and all that -- everything was thrown out and carried away...?... We were told, "These objects you use [you think] are magic charms. Don't believe inthem; they are useless. You understand? We are going to erectour monuments.F: Mm-hmm.T: That is something good. Andthings like statues of Mary, all that is very good." So then we sawthe monument of Leopold II, which was put up in Kinshasa at the timewhen he died in Brussels, while he was horse-jumping.F: Mm-hmm.T: Yes, some one presented him with horses.F: Horses?T: Yes, that horse of his.F: Mm-hmm.T: It rolled over with him. It happened in a pool of water. F: Mm-hmm.T: And he died. And they said thatthey were going put up [his monument] because he was the kingof the Congo. But Banza Kongo's

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monument: akukuwe nini: apana/ njominasema kama [reads from painting] Léopoldville furentinstaurée le vingt et un juin dixneuf cent septante et un/F: mm/

[memory] was completely lost,there was no monument, no nothing. So I say Léopoldville wasestablished on June 21, 1971

[sic]. 22

F: Mm-hmm.

35. T: ah bon/ et puis [Painting 28: Victims of the Miners' Strike]: mu wakati tena ile:kulikuwa: watu: Gécamines inaishakwanza kutumika depuis dix neufcent et six nalisema ku ile tableau eh?F: mm/T: bon/ ilikuwa na wantu wa kazi/wantu wa kazi walikuwa wantu weusi/ na wazungu vilevile/ watuwa kazi wa Gécamines: waliwaua: mule neuf décembre: dix neuf centquarante et un/ pa Lubumbashi/ balibaua mille neuf cent quaranteet un apa Lubumbashi/ juu walikatala kazi: balikatala kazi:kwa kutaka wawaongezee: franga: yao/ na ile franga ilikuyacinquante centimes: balilombaka juu ya kuba: ongezee/ na watu wakazi: waliweza: kusumbulia: na chef: du camp/ mm?F: mm/T: balisumbuliaka na chef du camp: ule chef du camp alikuwa monsieur Temperville/ Temperville/F: mm/T: kusema kwangu/F: mm/T: kisha waliitwa: ku: kiwanza/ naile kiwanza: ni ya: aina stade: Albert: non/ ni: ni kiwanza yaGécamines/ bon/ pale banaishakwenda ku nyumba sasa/ F: mm/T: balibaita: eeh: le neufdécembre quarante et un/ kukiwanza ya football/ ku mbele ya gouverneur: Maron/ F: mm/T: mbele ya gouver: ya gouverneurMaron: balibaita: mukuye gouverneur anaita: Maron/ sawavile watu walifanya kichwa nguvu: na kukatala kazi: na bwana Maron:sawa vile bantu balikatala kazi: asema non atuweza natumika sawapaka wanatuongezea makuta/F: mm/T: bon: ali: kulikuwa muntu moja: jina yake alikuya: Mpoyi/

35. Alright. And then [Painting 28: Victims of the Miners' Strike], also at that time, therewere people -- the Gécamines hadbeen operating ever since 1906, asI said in this other painting, right?F: Mm-hmm.T: Right. It employed workers, andthe workers were black people as well as whites. They killedworkers of the Gécamines here inLubumbashi on December 9, 1941,because they had gone on strike. They went on strike because theywanted a raise. The money involved was fifty cents. They kept askingfor a raise. And the workers managed to speak with the compoundmanager, you understand?F: Mm-hmm.T: They had talks with the compound manager. This compound manager was a Mr. Temperville, Temperville.F: Mm-hmm.T: That's how I pronounce it.F: mm.T: Then they were summoned to astadium, not the Albert stadium, but the Gécamines stadium.Alright, [the way it was] they had gone home to their houses [in thecompound]. F: Mm-hmm.T: They summoned them to the soccer field on December 9, 1941, [to appear] before Governor Maron.F: Mm-hmm.T: Before Governor Maron. Theysummoned them: "Come, Governor Maron is calling." The peopleremained firm and refused to [go back to] work. And Mr. Maron[found] that the people refused to work. "No," [they said] "we won'twork unless we are given raise."F: Mm-hmm.T: Now, there was one man, his name was Mpoyi. F: Mm-hmm.T: This Mpoyi stood up on behalf

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F: mm/T: ah ule Mpoyi: njo alishimamiabale bantu bote sawa représentant/alisema: mais bo banakatala kazi ni juu ya vile baongezea makuta/monsieur Maron alitosha bunduki/F: mm/T: na kupika: bwana Mpoyi/ naMpoyi alikufa: paka pale/ gouverneur Ma: Maron: ni yeye:alileta ruhusa kwa wasoldats ya Force Publique/ yaleta ruhusha kwasoldats wa Force Publique: juu baue bale bantu balikuwa ku: kiwanza/ na balibaua: bote eh?F: mm/T: na: kuwaua kuwaua tu/ ilikuwa:masikilizano ya wa: kubwa ya Union Minière: na wale wa religion/ mm?wa confirmation ni kwa vileMonseigneur Hemptinne/ Jean Hemptinne/F: mm/T: na yeye: alijua ile: maneno/F: mm/T: alikuwa nayee ku maréunions yakusema kama: babaue bale bantu/ nabalibaua mu le neuf décembre dixneuf cent: quarante et un/ voilà/ F: oui oui/ njo mwisho yaGécamines: [rummaging with taperecorder]T: et puis:

of all the people, he was theirrepresentative. He spoke: "They are striking because they want them to come up with a raise." Mr.Maron pulled a gun.F: Mm-hmm.T: And shot Mr. Mpoyi. Mpoyi diedright there. It was Governor Maron who gave the soldiers of the ForcePublique permission, he gave permission to the soldiers of theForce Publique to kill the people who were in the stadium. And theykilled all of them, you understand?F: Mm-hmm.T: They just massacred them. Therehad been an understanding between the bosses of the Union Minièreand the religious leaders, you understand? The go-ahead for thiswas given by Monseigneur Hemptinne, Jean Hemptinne.F: Mm-hmm.T: He was informed of this matter.F: Mm-hmm.T: He had participated in themeetings where [they decided] to kill those people. And they killedthem on December 9, 1941. There you are.F: Yes, yes. So that is the end [of the story of] Gécamines[rummaging with tape recorder]T: And then...

36. F: ah: sasa: nipindule mbele:...njo ngambo ingine/T: aah/F: ngambo ingine: tutaweza kuendelea sasa:

36. F: Ah, let me first turn [the tape]. That's the other side.T: Aha.F: Now we can go on with the other side.

37. T: tena: kulikuwa wakati moja: ina: inaanza?F: mm/T: kulikuwa wakati moja: ba: Italiens/ baItaliens: puisque wakati ile: baBelges balibamba Congo: eh? F: mm/T: baPortugais balikuwa tamaa na:kusema tuingie: chef mu Congo/ wa:banani: baAllemands balikuwa na besoin: tuingie mu Congo/ waItaliens nabo balikuwa besoin:tuingie mu Congo/ bon: balikuya ku: fanya bugomvi: ku mipaka: yaCongo/ bon: kisha kufanya bugomvi ile: sawa vile nalikuelezea kamani mambo banaanza kusema/

37. T: Furthermore, there was the time -- is it running? F: Yes.T: There was a time when the Italians [but let me go back and say] at that time the Belgians were holding the Congo hostage.F: Mm-hmm.T: The Portuguese had this desire:"Let's get into the Congo and be its rulers." Who else? The Germansyearned to invade the Congo. TheItalians also felt the need: "Let's invade the Congo." Alright, so they came to make trouble atthe borders of the Congo.

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38. bon: kisha kufanya bugomvi: nazania ba: bae: ba: ba: ba: ba: Belges: F: mm/T: balituma basoldats ya: ForcePublique/ mukakombanishe bale batu: abaweze kupima kuingia ata/ni kweli: ule alianza kubatuma: ule alianza kubatumia sauti:alikuya: Kamakanda [Painting 29: The Colonial Army Victorious]/alituma sauti: nazania balipikana kabisa kabisa/ kiisha kupikanabalikataza mvita eh? asema kama muache sasa mvita: tukule/ sawavile: ni ku bazungu: kama beko banakombana: bataweza kuacha mvita: banasema bakule bapumuziketena: tutaanza:F: mm/T: mvita/ bon: kwetu sheye:hatukombanake vile/ kama tunasema mvita: ni mvita/ hata kula: apana:wala nini/ ao kufa na njala utakufa?ko na bunduki/ bon/Kamakanda: balimuelezea kama: sasa: kuacha mvita: juu: bazungubanatafuta kula: tukom: eeh: tu: kisha vita tutakombana/ bon: saa ya kula: Kamak: saa ya kula:Kamakanda alibeba bunduki: na basoldats yake: eh? kwenda kupika:bazungu/na: aliuaka bazungu bote: ya Italiens: na mvita iliisha: kumipaka: ya Congo/ bon: kisha mvita kuisha: nazania: Kamakandaalirudia/ na victoire: mu Congo/ bon/ balimuelezea Kamakanda kama:balimupa félicitation d'abord/alikalaka kwake/ F: mm/T: kisha kuikala kwake: balikuwakumubebaka/ bon asema kama: sawa vile ulikombana nguvu: na kutoshadamu mingi: jashu mingi: bon: tutaku: tutaku: soigner eh?...?... mafaa matraitements:F: mm/T: batamu: patia madawa: juu ya kupumuzika/ na balimutwangaka Kamakanda sindano: Kamakanda alikufaka/ balimuaka kwa sindano/

38. When they had started trouble it was the Belgians, I believe -- as I explained to you these arethings the were talking about --F: Mm-hmm.T: They sent their soldiers of theForce Publique: "Engage those people in battle, they must by nowmeans be allowed to try and invade [the country]." The truth is thatthe one who took command and gave them orders was Kamakanda[Painting 29: The Colonial Army Victorious]. He gave orders, andthey fought a fierce battle, I think. After fighting for a whilethey stopped the war, you understand? "Stop the war now," itwas said, "let's eat." That is how it is with the whites. When theyfight each other they may stop the war and tell (their soldiers) to eat and have a rest, and then[they say]: "Let's start again."F: Mm-hmm.T: "With the war." Here we don'tfight each other that way. When we say war, it's war. There is noeating, nothing. [No talk about] dying from hunger. You are goingto die by the gun. Alright, they told Kamakanda to stop the war nowbecause the whites wanted to eat. "After that," [they said], "wewill fight again." Alright, but when it was time to eat, Kamakandatook his gun and his soldiers, you understand? He went to shoot thewhites and he killed all the whites, the Italians, and that wasthe end of the Congolese border war. Alright, I think when the warwas over, Kamakanda returned as a victor to the Congo. Alright. Theytold Kamakanda --well, first they congratulated him. He was stayingat home. F: Mm-hmm.T: He stayed at home, and then they came to take him away.Alright. "Because you fought so hard and lost a lot of blood andsweat we will care for you," you understand? ...?... he needed[medical] treatment.F: Mm-hmm.T: They were going to give himmedicine so he could rest. They gave Kamakanda an injection and

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Kamakanda died. They just killed him with an injection.

39. na kisha kufa kwa Kamakanda:bale basoldats balikombana ile mvita/ parmi mingi: balikuwabaTetela/ sawa wakati ile baTetela njo baliingiaka mu bu:F: mm/T: soldat/ bon: balionaka: mubaya/F: mm/T: baliona mubaya: nawalitombokaka/ balifanya révolte/la révolte baTetela [Painting 30:The Tetela Revolt]/ kisha kufanyarévolte: balipikana: na balebasoldats bengine balikuwa ngambo ya bazungu: na bazungu benyewe/balipikanaka nguvu kabisa na kuuwana: na: kuuwana/ ilikuwarévolte baTetela/F: mm/T: na kuuwana/ ilikuwa juu ya: s: ba: soldats: na mufano ile baliikala: abakukuwe: beko nabatraiter kama: batu/ mu armée/F: mm/T: balibaona: kama sawa nyama tuseme/

39. After Kamakanda's death [this is what happened]. Among the soldiers who had fought that war,many were Tetela. At that time the Tetela tended to join the [theForce Publique].F: Mm-hmm.T: To become soldiers. Alright. They considered that [what happened to Kamakanda] was bad.F: Mm-hmm.T: They considered it bad and theyexploded and staged a mutiny, theTetela mutiny [Painting 30: The Tetela Revolt]. They revolted andfought the other soldiers who took the side of the whites, as well asthe whites themselves. They fought each other ferociously and killedeach other. They killed each other. That was the Tetela mutiny.F: Mm-hmm.T: They killed each other. It wasabout the conditions in which thesoldiers lived. In the army they did not treat them as human beings.F: Mm-hmm.T: Let's just say they regarded them as animals.

40. et puis: tuko..?...un instant/F: mm/T: bon/ siku kidogo: ilikuwa: kutembea: sasa Belge anaikala mu Zaire ni Congo Belge/F: mm/T: bon: siku kidogo kulikuwakutembea kwa Prince Charles [Painting 31: Prince CharlesVisits the Congo]/ mu mille neuf cent quarante sept/ kisha: mumille neuf cent quarante sept/ mbele yake: ilitembea: eh: Prince:eh: ilitembea Prince Léopold/Léopold le future roi/F: mm/T: eh? kisha ya Albert kufa: yeenjo alikuwa sultani/ mu mille neuf cent vingt cinq: Prince Léopoldalitembea/ mu mille neuf cent vingt huit: roi Albert: na reineElisabeth: walitembea mu Congo/ mu mille neuf cent quarante sept:eeh: Léopold: eeh quoi: CharlesPrince Régent alitembea mu: muCongo/ kisha kufika: kufika kwake:

40. After that... [aside] just a moment.F: Mm-hmm.T: Alright. Not long after that, there was the [royal] tour. Now the Belgians had settled in Zaire, that is, the Belgian Congo.F: Mm-hmm.T: Alright. Not long after thatcame the tour Prince Charles [made of the Congo]. [Painting 31:Prince Charles Visits the Congo] This was in 1947. Then -- yes, itwas in 1947. Before that there had been the tour made by PrinceLeopold, Leopold the future King.F: Mm-hmm.T: You understand, after Alberthad died he was the ruler. In 1925 Prince Leopold traveled. In 1928King Albert and Queen Elisabeth traveled in the Congo. In 1947,Leopold, or rather Albert, the Prince Regent, traveled in theCongo. When he arrived, the Prince Regent made a speech: "I came to

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Prince Régent alisemaka/ sawa vileminakuya mi: mu: mu Congo/ naizania: si: kumutaya namna gani:

alikuwa na ulema 6 wa dicho/ alikuwaka na dicho moja/F: mm/T: yake ya kilema/ alisema sawavile minafika mu Congo: inapashwa: na mimi vilevile kama niko mu ilenkundi: inapashwa mutoto wote ule anazaliwa mu mille neuf centquarante sept: bamukamate: vile katoto: bamutoshe: dicho/ wote uleanazaliwa/ bon: kulala kwangu mi hivi minafika:F: mm/T: yapashwa bakate muntu yotemweushi: nywele ya [chuckle]: ya ku kichwa/ eeh? bakate nywele:apana muntu wote kwa lakini: mais muntu ule ata: buingi ya nywele?itaweza kupatikana/F: mm/T: baingishe mu matelas: njonitalala/ bon volilà: parlémentBelge: ilikatalaka/ aseamaaiwezikane/ uko roi: uko sultani: vilevile: mais: haiwezikane kukamata: muntu/ F: mm/T: sawa wee: kumutosha dicho: na ni mutoto/ mutoto mwanaume wotealisema: asema mwanamuke hapana/ banamutosha apana/ ile bulemayako: ilikuwa yako/ na shee atutaweza kufwata bale muntualizaliwa: ule Mungu: muntu alituma: Mungu alituma muzima:abakie: muzima/ Prince Charles alirudia: ku Belgique/ mm?

the Congo." I think he had, how shall I call it, a deformity inone eye. One of his eyes.F: Mm-hmm.T: Had a deformity. So he said,"[To mark] my trip to the Congo, the order should be given thatevery child born in 1947" -- I myself also belong to this group-- "should be picked up and this baby should have one eye removed.Every [child] born [in 1947]." Alright. "Now that I am here, thisis how I am going to sleep. F: Mm-hmm.T: It is ordered that every blackman have the hair on his head cut off [chuckle]." You understand?They should cut the hair, not everyone though; only those whocould be found to have a lot of hair.F: Mm-hmm.T: "They should stuff it into amattress and I am going to sleep [on it]." Alright, what happenedwas that the Belgian Parliament refused [to go along with this].It stated: "That is impossible. You are the king, and you are theruler. But it cannot be allowed to pick up a human being.F: Mm-hmm.T: Someone like you, and have hiseye removed, [especially not if] it is a child" -- he had talked ofall the boys, not the girls; they would not have to have an eyeremoved. "This deformity you have, it was you who got it. And wecannot go after those [children]. A person who was born, a personwhom God sent, without a fault, should remain whole and healthy."Prince Charles went back to Belgium, right?

41. ni vile mu mille neuf cent cinquante cinq:F: mm/T: [takes up next painting] leroi: Baudouin: sa majesté le roiBaudouin: alikuya mu: Congo[Painting 32: King Baudouin Visits the Congo]/F: mm/T: bon: kufika kwa roi: desBelges: na mi naliona/ ilikuwa mille neuf cent cinquante cinq:nalikuwa mu première année/

41. Thus, in 1955...F: Mm-hmm.T: ... King Baudouin, His Majesty King Baudouin, came to the Congo [Painting 32: King Baudouin Visits the Congo].F: Mm-hmm.T: Alright. When the king of theBelgians arrived I was an eyewitness. It was in 1955, I wasa first grader in elementary school, that was when he came.F: Here?

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primaire/ njo pale alifikaka/F: hapa? T: aah/ mu Cong: mu Shaba: mu Jadotville eh?F: eyo/T: wakati ile: ilikuwa Likasi/F: mm/T: na mi balinipaka drapeau: ku mukono/F: mm/T: ni mi minamulamukiaka/nalionaka alikuwaka na voiture mweushi: kwa kufika kwake:alishukaka mbele pa nyumba ya Mungu: banamusalimia: na vilealikwenda ku centre: ya ku commune sasa/ bon/ kufika kwa roi Baudouin: alikuwa: alipelekwaka na: Petillon: alikuwa gouverneurgénéral/

T: Yes, here to the Congo, or rather in Shaba, at Jadotville. right?F: I see.T: That is what Likasi was called at that time.F: Mm-hmm.T: And they put a flag into my hand.F: Mm-hmm.T: I kept cheering him. I saw himcoming in a black car, and when hearrived he got out in front of the church. They greeted him, and thenhe went to the center of the township. Alright. When King Baudouin arrived he wasaccompanied by Petillon who was the Governor General.

42. bon kisha kupelekwa kwake:alipokelewa bien: na yeye aliwazaka: mawazo muzuri/ alisema:[Painting 33: King Baudouin Giving a Speech]F: mm/T: aah: bandugu yangu: nazania:F: mm/T: miaka ya: busultani ya ba:Kongomani: inenea/ ile balibakatia kuko: nkambo yetu/ Léopold deux/sawa vile inenea: bon: sina mufano ingine ya kufanya: tutawezakubapatia: indépendance yabo/sawa

vile mwe muna: balikatala 7/ asema bon: sawa vile munatamani kama:F: mm/T: atuweze kubapa indépendence eh?bon/ nitaweza kumielezea hivi/ kumbe: muitike/ mukule: na bale

bantu/ ku mahôtels: sani 8: huyu nasani na sani: ao sani moja: mukunywe nawo pamoya: kamata bibiyako: bacheze/ c'est que: ababakie: abafanye asema kama huyu anakuya bibi ya abaizini apana/ F: mm: abai?T: abai: abaizini/ F: mm/T: abalalane apana/F: mm/T: c'est que: ni kucheza tu/F: mm/ T: ça danse eh?F: mm: ndiyo/T: bacheze/ bon: bakule na mweepamoya/ sasa bataona kama: c'est

42. He was shown around by him and was well received. And he had ideas that were good. He spoke[Painting 33: King Baudouin Giving a Speech].F: Mm-hmm.T: My brothers, I think.F: Mm-hmm.T: Enough years have gone by. Timehas come for the people of the Congo to have the sovereigntyreturned to them, [the sovereignty] that was taken awayby our ancestor, Leopold II. Because that time has come no, theonly thing I can do is give them their Independence. You have beenexpecting this." F: Mm-hmm.T: But they refused. [The kingcontinued], "I can put it to you like this: We cannot give themIndependence, right? Therefore, listen to me: you should eat together with those people, in thehotels, each from his plate or from one plate; you should drinktogether with them. Take your wife and let her dance with them. Thisdoes not mean that they should sleep together.

F: Mm-hmm. What is this? 23

T: Abaizini.F: Mm-hmm.T: They should not sleep together.F: Mm-hmm.T: It meant just dance [together].

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vrai: tuko bien: akuna kintu hatamoja/ bon: sasa: nani: baBelges: balisema: oooh ça: non/ atuwezekula pamoja na muntu mweusi: kunywa pamoja: ou bien kuchezapamoja na yee: tunakatala kabisa kabisa/F: mm/T: kweli asema eeh/ nazaniaanafika: pa ile: tableau: ni ya mwisho [Painting 35: PetillonGiving a Speech]: na kuko wakati: alituma: nitaweza kuendelea kukowakati alituma Petillon: pale alikwenda ku Belgique: alimutumaPetillon asema ukabelezee eh?F: mm/T: bafanye ile kintu naibelezea/kama banafanya vile: comme ça balebantu habatajua indépendance: ninini/ [claps his hands] batawazia kama: ni furaha sawa vile tukonacheza: kunywa: aah c'est fini: tuko indépendance que voulez vous/bon: bote na bali: kamata tomato hii: kwa mupika: Petillon: nakumufukuza kama: tunakatala/ [claps his hands] et puis njo:F: waBelges?T: ah oui balipikaka Petillon tomato/ humu mu Lubumbashi tena/kumufukuza asema: kwenda ukumuambie ule roi wenu:tunakatala/ shee tuko humu:Gécamines: iko: nani: ungouvernement dans un gouvernement/iko l'état/ c'est fini tunakatalaile mambo/ F: mm/

F: Mm-hmm.T: Dancing, right?F: Mm-hmm, yes.T: They should dance. Alright,they should eat together with you. Then they will see that everythingis alright and that there is nothing [between you and them]."Alright. The Belgians said: Oh no, about that, no, we cannot eattogether with a black person, drink or dance together with him.We refuse categorically."F: Mm-hmm.T: [" Do you really mean it?" they said]. And he said: "I do." I

think he 24 came now to this lastpainting #[Painting 35: Petillon Giving a Speech]. And that was thetime -- I anticipate [what is to follow], if I may -- the time whenhe, after his return to Belgium, sent Petillon to explain this tothem, right?F: Mm-hmm.T: "They should do what Iexplained to them. When they do this those people won't know whatIndependence means. [Claps his hands] They will think: What a joyto be dancing and drinking, so this is it, what [more] do you want?" Alright. They all picked uptomatoes and threw them at Petillon and chased him awaysaying: "We refuse." [claps his hands] And then...F: ... the Belgians?T: Yes, indeed, they peltedPetillon with tomatoes. Even here in Lubumbashi. They chased himaway saying: "Go away and tell that king of yours that we refuse.We here are the Gécamines. This isa government within a government,this is the State. That's it, we are against all this."F: Mm-hmm.

43. T: et puis nazinia kama ulikuwa tableau ingine nilitaka kuelezea: [chuckles] namna ilikuya mufano yeye alirudia:F: ndiyo/T: na mufano gani Lumumba alipata kufika mu Ghana:F: mm/T: kwa Kwame Krumah: cinquante: eeh:

55. And then, if there was another painting I would like to tell you [chuckles] what happened when he returned [to Belgium?].F: Yes.T: And how Lumumba managed to go to Ghana.F: Mm-hmm.T: To Kwame Krumah, in '50, ah...F: We'll go on with that.

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F: ile tutaendelea:T: aah/F: tutendelea naye: tutendelea naye/ F: ni yote yote ile nalikuwa nayo: ya kuweza kukuelezea/ mm?F: kumbe njo mwisho ya: ya kipande ya:T: ya kipande ya kwanza/F: kwanza/ très bien/T: ahah/

T: Yes.F; We'll go on with that, we'll go on with that.T: I still have all this I can explain to you, right?F: So this is the end of chapter...T: ... of chapter one.F: Chapter one. Very good.T: Yes.

1 'lu-sambo (n): fil métallique, fil d'archal(laiton)." Van Avermaet and Mbuya 1954: 568.[back to main text]2 See Standard Swahili dictionary, -sulika, feel dizzy.[back to main text]3 I make him repeat the name.[back to main text]4 Kwa ajili in ECS.[back to main text]5 Probably from ECS gaagaa, "roll from side to side ... as an animal wallowing on the ground."[back to main text]6 Van Avermaet and Mbuya 1954: 348: ki-lema...: difformité, déformation...'[back to main text]7 A proleptic statement, running ahead of the sentence.[back to main text]8 Should be sahani. The a sounds long, so could be hypercorrection by deleting intervocalic h.[back to main text]

1 The original has what looks like a doublet: kula / kumanger (and would in that case not require translation by two terms). The context suggests that T. wants to stress civilized eating.[back to main text]2 An example of a "false start", in this case repaired without remarks of hesitation.[back to main text]3 The local form of East Coast Swahili ugali.[back to main text]4 The original has histoire sainte. German has an equivalent (Heilige Geschichte). I cannotfind one in English. In the Congo, this was the designation for abbreviated and illustratededitions of the Bible used in schools.[back to main text]5 The original has a plural (bale batoto) but the context requires, and local usage permits, a translation in the singular.[back to main text]6 Could also have the weaker meaning: The one who had seen him first.[back to main text]7 The original has an ambiguous preposition here (mbele). It could be spatial or temporal. Itseems that T. inverts the sequence of Old andNew Testament. The latter is foundational to him, hence it is placed mbele.[back to main text]8 The original prefixes Balthasar with a plural ba-, another example of the local usage noted above.[back to main text]9 Literally "father," but here and elsewhere untranslated as a term of respect.[back to main text]10 The underlined phrases (in this case, thefirst one is incomprehensible) are an example of a rhetorical convention. A speaker begins a

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work or sentence which are then are partiallyrepeated and/or completed by the listener(s).[back to main text]11 The chuckles seems to announce the parody or mockery of the president's words (through inversion) that follows.[back to main text]12 I make him repeat the name.[back to main text]13 The original bana-ka-fukuza (instead of the expected bana-mu-fukuza) seems to have the diminuitive -ka- as an object-infix. It could be translated as "they chased away the little one."[back to main text]14 Something intrudes, but it is no longer possible to determine what it was.[back to main text]15 This sort of aside occurs several timesduring these conversations. T. reacts verbally to something material in the painting -- a fault,a dirty or wet spot, etc.[back to main text]16 Again an aside or short interruption related to manipulating a painting.[back to main text]17 Notice that this episode of the narrative (and others to follow), clearly marked as such, is not "illustrated" by a painting.[back to main text]18 "They" is a weak translation of wenyewewhich could something like "the ruler/owner."[back to main text]19 This is an attempt to render the plural tuburiin the original.[back to main text]20 The brief exchange that follows was prompted by kumula, a form I did not understand right away.[back to main text]21 From the context it is clear that this aside does not refer to the text but the tape that is about to run out, see below.[back to main text]22 An obvious mistake; 1941 is inscribed on the picture.[back to main text]23 I did not understand the expression abaizini, they should not commit adultery.[back to main text]24 This is the grammatical person used in the

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original -- as if Baudouin had come to this point in the series.[back to main text]

References

Van Avermaet, E. and B. Mbuya. (1954). Dictionnaire kiluba - français. Tervuren: MuséeRoyale de l'Afrique Centrale.

A Standard Swahili dictionary. (1939). Oxford: Oxford University Press.

[Introduction]

[First Session, Part 2]

[Second Session, Part 1]

[Second Session, Part 2]

[Third Session, Part 1]

[Third Session, Part 2]

[Fourth Session]

[LPCA Home Page]

© Transcript & Translation by Johannes FabianArchived: 11 November 1998Revisions: 12 May 1999, 18 May 1999 (layout), 23 August 2001 (lay-out of toc changed, APSVolume number added), 31 October 2001 (ISSN added)

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