announcer: bulletproof radio: a state of high...

Announcer: BulletproofRadio:astateofhighperformance.

Dave: You'relisteningtoBulletproofRadiowithDaveAsprey.Today'scoolfactofthedayisthatsleepismoreimportantthanfood.Scientistsdidstudiesofsleepdeprivation,andtheworldrecordisactually11dayswithoutsleep,butalotofpeopledieafter10dayswithoutsleep.Youcangoacouplemonthswithoutfood,dependingonhowmuchfatyouhave,withoutdying.

Waterseemstobemoreimportantthansleep,sleepismoreimportantthanfood.Ifyou'rearegularlistener,you'veheardmesharemylistoftop10bio-hacks.Let'stalkaboutnumbernine:funhacksfortheBulletproofmind.Itmaysoundweird,buthangingupsidedownisagreatwaytohackyourbrain.Regularlyinvertingtrainsyourbraincapillaries,makingthemstrongerandmorecapable,tobringoxygentoyourbrain.It'sprettystraightforward.Moreoxygeninthebrainmeansbetterperformance.

IgetmydailystretchandmydoseofoxygenwithmyTeeterInversionTable,whichissoessentialforoptimumfocus,concentrationandmentalenergy.Thatfull-bodystretchelongatesthespineandtakesthepressureoffthedisks,sotheycanplumpbackup.Lesspressuremeanslesspain.Ifyouhavebackpain,evenifyou'vebeenluckyenoughtoavoiditsofar,youreallywantaTeetertoinverteverydaytokeepyourbackandjointsfeelinggreat.

Forover35years,Teeterhassetthestandardforqualityinversionequipmentyoucantrust.MyfriendsoveratTeeterhavedecidedtoshowsomelovetoBulletprooflisteners.Foralimitedtime,youcangettheTeeterInversionTablewithbonusaccessoriesandafreepairofgravitybootssoyoucaninvertathome,ortakethebootswithyoutothegym.

Togetthisdeal,whichisasavingsofover138bucks,gotoGetTeeterdotcom,slashBulletproof.You'llalsogetfreeshippinganda60-daymoney-backguarantee,andfreereturns.There'sabsolutelynoriskforyoutotryitout.Remember,youcanonlygettheTeeterwithbonusaccessoriesandafreepairofgravitybootsbygoingtoGetTeeterdotcom,slashBulletproof.G-E-T-T-E-E-T-E-Rdotcom,slashBulletproof.Checkitout.

Speakingofsleep,today'sguestisnoneotherthanAriannaHuffington,whohascomeoutinthelastcoupleyearswithalotofinformationaboutsleep,andactuallyhasawholenewstartup,ThriveGlobal,whichisreallyfocusedonquality-of-lifeandatonofinfoaboutsleep.ThisisaliveinterviewatoneofthelocationsforArianna'snewstartup,ThriveGlobal.It'sanewcontentplatform,andI'mactuallyprovidingcontentforAriannaonthatservice,soyoucanlearnaboutsomeoftheBulletproofperspectiveonsleep.

Welcometotheshow.

Arianna: Thankyousomuch.Greattobewithyou.

BPR-AriannaHuffington2017 Page 2 of 21

Dave: We'reatyourpop-upstoreinNewYork,andwe'reservingBulletproofCoffeehere,abouttodoabooksigningandjusthonoredtobeapartofit.YoujuststartedThriveGlobal.Beforewegetintoyourspecificsleephacksandinyourphonebed,whichisareallycoolthing,IwantedtojustkindofaskyouwhatmadeyougointhisdirectioninsteadoftalkingaboutbroadernewsthingsthatIdon'tknowifyou'retalkingabout.WhyThriveGlobal?

Arianna: Well,asyouknowDave,thelasttimeyouandIdidaninterview,itwasintheofficesoftheHuffingtonPostthatIfoundedandrunfor11years.InAugust,Idecidedtostepdown,inordertofollowthispassionofhelpingpeoplereducethestressandburnoutintheirlives,andleaveliveswithmorehealth,moreproductivityandmorehappiness.That'swhatThriveGlobalisabout.It'sbasicallyacompanythathasthreepillars.

Thefirstisamediaplatformthatbringstogetherthelatestscienceonsleepandburnoutandunpluggingfromtechnology,andtheconnectionwithperformance.Becauseinthepast,thesethingshavebeenassociatedwithrelaxingandchillingunderthemangotree.Wearenowshiftingtheprioritytobe"No,ifyoureallywanttoperformatyourbest,whichisreally,somuchwhatyouandBulletproofCoffeeareabout,thentakingcareofyourself,puttingyourownoxygenmaskfirst.Sleeping,unplugging,rechargingareessentialelementsofperformance.

Thesecondpillariscorporate.Wegointocorporationsandwehelpthemimprovetheirculture.

Dave: Nice.

Arianna: Aroundstressandproductivitywithmeasurableresults.SomeofourbigpartnersareAccenture,JPMorgan,Uber.

Dave: Wow.

Arianna: Thethirdpartiswhatyouseehere,commerce.BothanonlineplatformatThriveGlobaldotcom,andpop-upstoreswe'regoingtobedoingaroundtheworldthatbringtogetherthelatesttechnologyaroundwellness,aswellaswehavehere,abedroomwhichisasleepsanctuarytodemonstratehowyoucancreatethatenvironmentinyourlife.ProductslikethephonebedthatI'mgoingtogiveyouinaminutethathelpsyouunplugfromtechnology.

Thisissortofthethreecomponentsofthecompany.

Dave: It'sabigvision,there,andIlovethatyou'rereachingouttocompanies.IactivelydoeverythingIcantohackmyownemployeesatBulletproof,wherewegetthemneurofeedbackifthey'reatourheadquarters,andtheygetagenerousstipendtogetBulletproofProductseverymonthatnocostsotheycanperformbetter.Wetalkaboutsleepandwehaveculturecallsaboutstressandhurryavailabilitytrainingandallthesethings.


Because,asaCEO,andentrepreneur,Icarealotaboutmyemployees,butalso,asaventure-backedcompany,peoplewhoarehappierandlessstressedactuallygetmoreworkdoneandthey'renicertoeachotherandthey'renicertotheirfamiliesandeveryoneelsetoo,butitdoescostmore,butyougetitbackinproductivitysomuchmore.

Arianna: Absolutely,it'saprofitcenter.

Dave: Itis.

Arianna: That'swhatpeoplearerealizing.Whatwetellthecorporationsthatweareworkingwith,thatit'stimetogoupstream.LikealotofHRprogramsoperateafterthedisease-

Dave: Right.

Arianna: Hasmanifesteditself.Youknow,whetherit'stheactualdiseaselikediabetesorheartdisease,ordealingwithsymptomslikesmokingordrinking.Allthesearealreadydemonstrationsofsomeproblemsupstream,whichhavetodowithstress.Stressisaninevitablepartoflife,butwehaveallthesepathwaysandmicro-stepsand[inaudible00:06:39]coursesandtrainingsthathelppeoplerealizethattheycanactuallymakesurethatstressdoesnotbecomecumulative.

Dave: Right.

Arianna: Thatyoutakepausesduringtheday,towalk,tobreathe,tounplugfromyourtechnology,andthatyougetenoughsleep.Now,thisisakindofnon-negotiable.Youknow,we'veconvincedtheworldthatexerciseandnutritionareimportant.Whetherpeopledoitornot,they'veheardenoughaboutit,right?

Sleepisrelativelynew,asathirdpillarofhealth.

Dave: It'ssuchabigone.YousaidsomethingelseandIthinkitgotmyattention.Yousaidbreathing.There'sbreathingexercises,certainly,thathelpyougotosleepandallthat,butIwasjustchattingwithacolleagueandJeffBezosatAmazon,whentheybuiltnewskyscrapers,insistedthatthewindowshadtoopen.Theyhadtolikeredesignbuildings.

That'salsosomethingthatforthenextBulletproofHeadquarters,that'sonourlistofrequirements.Ifouremployees,andIcan'tbreatheclean,outsideair,thatrecirculates,we'renotgoingtoperform,becausewe'renotgoingtofeelaswell.Whywouldyouchoosetospendeighthoursadayin,basically,anaquarium.That'swhatthey'rebuilding.That'sjustnotcool.

Iwanteveryonelisteningtothistostartthinkingabout-

Arianna: Openingwindows.


Dave: Yeah,howdoyougettheair?Becauseyousleepbetterwithgoodair,andeverything'sbetterwhenyoucanbreathe.

Arianna: Absolutely,andit'sinterestingyoumentionedJeffBezos,becauseoneofthethingsourmediaplatformdoesistobringtogethernewrolemodelsforthisnewwayoflivingandperformingatyourbest.Thedaywelaunched,whichwasNovemberthirtieth,ourmediaplatformhadapiecebyJeffBezoswhichwasentitledWhyMySleepingEightHoursaNightIsGoodForAmazonShareholders.

Dave: Nice.

Arianna: We'retryingtomaketheconnectionbetweenaCEO,anentrepreneur,anybody,frankly,takingcareofthemselves,andthekindofdecisionstheymake.Becausethat'sreallythevaluewebringtoourbusinessesortoourjobsisourdecisionmaking.That'sdegradedwhenwearerunningonempty;whenwearerunningonfumes.

Dave: Right.Now,oneofthestudiesthatcaughtmyattention,andI've,admittedly,especiallywhenIwasyoungandfatandstressedallthetime,Idefinitelydidn'thavegoodsleephygiene.Probablybecausenoonehadinventedtheterm.Wedidn'tknowthat.Iwaslike"Iwouldratherreadsomethinginterestingthansleep,soI'lljustdothat."

Arianna: Right.

Dave: Eventually,youneverevenrememberwhatyoureadbecauseyou'resotired.WhatI'vefoundisthatbymakingmybodyworkbetter,Ijustnaturallywantlesssleep.Like,Idon'tneedeighthoursanightanymore.

Arianna: Well,youmaybesomebodywhohasageneticmutation.Yousee,aboutoneandahalfpercentofthepopulationhasageneticmutation.Youcantestyourselfforit,Ihavethetestthatyoucandoinmybook.Ifyouhaveageneticmutation,thenyoucangetfourorfivehoursandfeelgreat.IfIgetfourorfivehoursIfeellousy.

Itdoesn'tmatterhowmuchIexerciseor-

Dave: That's[inaudible00:09:50]verywell-

Arianna: HowwellIeat.

Dave: Yeah.

Arianna: Thescienceiscompletelyunequivocal.Ifyouhaveageneticmutation,great.Ifyoudon'thaveageneticmutation,youneedsomewherebetweenseventoninehours.Youmayneedseven,somebodyelsemayneednine,butthat'sreallytheconclusionofallsleepscience.Mostpeopledon'tevenknowwhatit'sliketooperateatoptimumlevel.

Dave: Oh,yeah,that'stotallytrue.


Arianna: Iknowformyself,Icollapsefromexhaustionandburnoutin2007.Ifyouwouldaskmethatmorning,"Arianna,howareyou?"Iwouldhavesaid"Great."

Dave: Yeah.

Arianna: BecauseIhadforgottenwhatgreatwas,youknow?Iwastiredallthetime.Myfriendswouldjoke.Like,ifyouputmeinamovietheater,inanydarkenedroom,Iwouldbeasleepwithinthreeseconds.

Dave: Iusedtohavethattoo,andIdon'tanymore.Exactlythatthing.It'slikeyou'renotquitenarcoleptic.

Arianna: Almost.

Dave: You'rejustreadytogotosleep.Now,Ihadasimilarexperience.Youfelldown,youpassedout,youbrokeyourjaw,right?IhadoneofthosesleepburnoutthingswhereI'dflownfromSanFranciscotoChina,gaveakeynotepresentation,hoppedonaplanetoFlorida,gaveakeynotepresentation.Then,wokeup,andwantedtogetsomecoffeeandwater,butdidn'thavetimebecauseofairlinesecuritystuff.

SoIcaughtafiveAMflightoutofFlorida,andontheairplane,Istillhadtogotothebathroom,andIwokeupfromthemostblissfulsleep,becauseIhadpassedoutintheaisle.Justlikewentstraightdown.Fortunately,Ididn'thitmyheadthattime.Itwas,youknow"Isthereadoctorontheairplane?"Kindofthing.Inthatcase,itwasexhaustion,right?AndlackofbloodpressurebecauseIwasdehydratedbecauseIcouldn'tgetwaterattheairport.Becausetheymakeyouthrowitawaybeforeyoufly,whichmakesnosense.

Arianna: Well,firstofall,canyouwriteaboutthat,becausehereisoneofthethingswe'redoingonThriveGlobaldotcom,isbothcollectingnewrolemodelstories,butalsocollectingstoriesofburnout.

Dave: Yeah.

Arianna: Becausewedon'tsharethesestoriesenough.Ofcourse,youknow,youandIwerelucky,buttherearemanyworsestories.

Dave: Youhavedriving.

Arianna: Yeah.TheCEOofUnitedAirlineswhocollapsedonhistreadmillandendedwithahearttransplant.OrtheheadofMandAorJPMorganwhodiedonhistreadmill.Therearestoriesofcollapsethatareinfinitelyworsethanyoursormine,butthey'reeverywhere.

Dave: Yeah.

Arianna: Theyareglobal.Weneedtocollectthem,becausethey'rekindofawarningsignal,thatpeoplecanmakechangesintheirliveswithouthavingtohavethepainfulwake-upcall


thattensofthousandsofpeoplehavehadaroundtheworld.Mostimportantformeistherecognitionthatyou'regoingtobemoreeffectiveatwhatyouwanttodo,youknow?

Wethinkwearesacrificingourhealthforthesakeofourjoborourbusiness,andthat'sjustacompletedelusion.I'mkindoffascinatedbyhowcomeanentireculturebelievessomethingfalse.I'vedonekindofthestudythatthroughouthistory,cultureshaveoftenbelievedfalsethings.Like,therewerecenturieswhenwebelievedthatthesunrevolvesaroundtheearth.Remember?Itwaslikethe-

Dave: Ithinkitstilldoes.

Arianna: Somepeoplemaystill.Ihopetheydon'tworkforBulletproofCoffee.

Dave: Goodpoint.

Arianna: Youknow,thelawsofnavigationwerebasedonthisfalsefoundation,whichledtomanyshipwrecks.Inthesameway,thelawsofworkingandlivingarebasedonthisfalseassumptionthatinordertosucceed,youhavetoburnout.

Youknow,youcangototelevisioncommercialsfromthe'60sandseedoctorsinwhitecoatsadvertisingcigarettes,becausewethoughtcigaretteswerecoolandglamorous.

Dave: Right.

Arianna: Eventhoughthesciencewasinthattheyactuallykillus.WethoughtBradandAngelinawouldlastforever.Thatwasanotherfalsethingwebelieved.It'stimetostopbelievingthatweneedtoburnoutinordertosucceed.That'skindofmypassion,that'swhatI'vecommittedtherestofmylifeto.Ifwecanchangetheculturearoundthat,wewilleliminatesomuchunnecessarysuffering.

Like,there'salotofsufferingintheworld.

Dave: Oh,yeah.

Arianna: RefugeesandpeoplebeingkilledbyrandomviolenceinChicago.Youknow?Youcandrawalonglistthatwecannotrightnowimmediatelysolve.Wecansolvealotofsufferingsimplybyconvincingpeopletostopbelievingsomethingwhichisscientificallyfalse.

Dave: It'strueonsomanyfronts.Alotofcompanieshaveplayedaroleinthat.You'retalkingaboutthingslikesaturatedfat.That'sbadforyou;diabetesandcancerareskyrocketingwhileyoueatlowfatdietsandfakefatandallthesethings.There'sallthesethingsthataregettingturnedoverbecausethemediaandsocialmediainparticular,wecantalkaboutwhatworks.


Ifthepartylineissmokingisgoodforyou,andyouneedtoeatbranmuffinsandnothingelse.Well,whathappenswheneveryonesays"Itdoesn'tworkandIfeellikecrapwhenIdothat."Eventually,thatmessagegetsheard.

Arianna: Right.

Dave: Whenpeopletellstoriesthewayyoudid,you'rereallycourageoustostandupto"Thisiswhathappenedinyourlast,orbookbeforethislastbook."Thathelpsbecausepeoplearesaying"Well,thestoryisthis,buttherealitythatI'mseeingisthis.Whyisthereamismatch"That'swhatwokemeupasabio-hacker,becauseIwasworkingoutsixdaysaweek,anhourandahalfaday.NomatterhowlittlesleepIgot,andIcutmycaloriesandIcutmyfat,becauseI'mlike300poundsandI'mdesperatetonotbefat.

Ineverlosttheweight.Igotstrong,andstayedfat.Atonepoint,I'mlikeit'snotthat...Youknow,Iwasburningoutofcourse.It'snotthatI'mweak,orit'snotthatI'mnottryinghardenough.WhichiswhyIlovedworkingout.

Arianna: Right.

Dave: Becauseofthatinternalmessage.It'sbecausethestuffI'mdoingjustdoesn'twork.Thatsamethinggoesinbusiness.Like,ifyou'rebeatingyourselftodeathinabusiness,andyoufeellikeyouhavetowork16-hourdaysandallthis,maybeyouneedtochangeyourstrategy.You'renotdoingbusinessverywell,right?

Arianna: Absolutely,andespeciallynow,thatsomanybusinessesseparateinmultipletimezones.

Dave: Yeah.

Arianna: Ifwedon'tlearntoworkinteams,ourworkisnotsustainable.Nohumanbeingcanbeupandavailableandonaroundmultipletimezones.That'swhyoneofthethingsweteachinourtrainingsande-coursesandwewritealotaboutislearningtodisconnectfromtechnology.Youknow,technology'samazing.TheHuffingtonPostwouldnotexistwithoutit.Alotofwhatyou'redoingwouldnothavebeenamplifiedwithoutit.

Dave: Right.

Arianna: Butweneedtosetboundaries.Forme,thekeyandmostnecessarythingistocreateatransitionfromourdaylifetoournightlifewhenwegotosleep.Wherewereallydisconnectfromourday,ourproblems.Mostpeoplesleepwiththeirphoneon,ontheirnightstand.

Dave: That'shorrifying,yeah.

Arianna: Sometimestheysleepwiththemundertheirpillow.


Dave: Wow,ifyouwanttogetbraincancer,andcognitivedysfunction,breakingthemitochondria,thatisanexcellentstrategy.

Arianna: Evenwithoutthat,you'reverylikelytowakeupinthemiddleofthenight,notbeabletofallimmediatelybackasleep,andfindyourselftexting,e-mailing,allgoingdowntherabbitholeofsocialmedia.WecreatedourfirstproductinourcommercedepartmentofThriveGlobal,isthephonebed,thatI'mgivingyouasagift.

Dave: Oh,thankyou.

Arianna: Ihopeyou'regoingtouseit.Hereisthephonebed.Itisbasicallyachargingstation.

Dave: Okay.

Arianna: Thathas10ports,butit'smadetolooklikeabed.

Dave: Nice.

Arianna: Becausehumanbeings-

Dave: Here,I'llholditupalittlebit.Here,I'lljustmakethecamerapointatithere.

Arianna: That'sokay,we'llputthatbackin,don'tworry.Humanbeingslearnthroughritual.Youputyourphonehere,youcanputeightphones.YouputyouriPadshere.

Dave: Right.

Arianna: Youtuckthemin,thisisthelittlesheetthatyoutuckthemin.Yousaygoodnighttothem.Thislivesoutsideyourbedroom,outsideyourchildren'sbedroomsifyouhavechildren.Youeducateyourchildrenthatfromthemomenttheygetaphone,theyknowwheretoputittosleep.

Dave: Wow.

Arianna: That'sbecause,youknowwhathappens.

Dave: Yeah.

Arianna: Bythetimeyourchildrenareteenagers,itbecomesabattle.Givemeyourphone.

Dave: Itdoes,right.

Arianna: Don'tsleepwithyourphone.

Dave: Right.


Arianna: Ifyoucaneducateeverybodyinthefamilytoseparatethemselvesfromthephones,thephonescharge,yourecharge,andyoureconnectinthemorning.We'regoingtopackthisupforyou.

Dave: Oh,thankyou.Doesitcomewiththephone?

Arianna: Comeswiththephone.No,butitcomesintwocolors,lightwoodordarkwood,whatdoyouprefer?

Dave: Ithinkthislooksgreat.

Arianna: Okay.

Dave: Thelightwoodisbeautiful.

Arianna: Great,youaregettingthelightwood.

Dave: Thankyou.Itsoundskindofridiculous,butit'snotatall,becausealotofthewaywe'rewiredisunconscious.

Arianna: Yes.

Dave: It'ssubconscious,sowedon'tnecessarilyknowthemessagesthatournervoussystemgets.Justhavingaritualthatsays"Allright,I'mgoingtodothis."

Arianna: Andhavingitliveoutsideyourbedroom.Thenwhathappensisthatwhenyouwakeupinthemorning,takejustoneminutetobreathe,tosetyourintentionfortheday,beforeyouimmediatelygotoyourphone.Becauseifyouthinkofit,thephoneistheportaltoeverythingtheworldwantsfromyou.

Dave: Yeah.

Arianna: Right?

Dave: Yeah.

Arianna: Ithinkit'sveryimportanttoestablish,whatdoyouwantfromtheworld.

Dave: Ithinkaminuteismaybealittleconservative,there.Itellyou,Iwakeup,myphone'sinairplanemode.Itismyalarmclock,becauseitsensesmymotion,butit'sneverturnedonatnight.It'salwaysinairplanemode.

Arianna: That'sunusual.

Dave: Yeah.

Arianna: TrytogetAmazonEchotowakeyouup.


Dave: Ihavetogetthat.

Arianna: Yeah,Alexa.YoucantellAlexa"Wakemeupatseven[inaudible00:20:05]time."WeprogrammedAlexawithmeditations.

Dave: Oh,great.Oh,cool.

Arianna: Youcansay"Alexa,playmetheThriveMeditationtosleep."

Dave: Thenitjustworks.

Arianna: Ifyouwakeupinthemiddleofthenight,youcanaskAlexatoplayyouthemeditationtosleep,sothatitcanputyourightbacktosleepnaturally,withoutstress.

Dave: Well,that'scool.

Arianna: Itcanwakeyouup,orhaveanold-fashionedalarmclock.

Dave: Inthemorning,though,Imadeacommitment.Iwakeup,ImakemyBulletproofCoffee,Itakemysupplements,Imakecoffeeformykids,andyes,theydrinkliketwoouncesofBulletproofbecauseIwanttogettheBrainOctaneinthembecausethey're-

Arianna: Howoldaretheynow?

Dave: Sevenandnine.

Arianna: Theydon'thavephonesyet.

Dave: No,theydon't.

Arianna: Bythetimetheyhavephones,you'llhavethephonebed.

Dave: Absolutely.

Arianna: Thenweknowwheretoputtheirphones.

Dave: MyphonestaysinairplanemodeallthattimeuntilIdropthemoffatschool.

Arianna: That'samazing.

Dave: Idon'tget-

Arianna: That'sincredibly-

Dave: Anymessages.Like,it'soff.


Arianna: Youknow,that'sveryrare,becausemostofusareaddicted.Like,Icouldn'tdothat.I'mnotasstrongasyouare.Ihavetohavemyphoneaway,becausethereisthatdopaminehitthatyouget.

Dave: Yeah.

Arianna: Thatmakesmostofusaddicts.Like,ifyou'reanaddict,analcoholaddict,youknow,youwouldn'thavebottlesofwinearound.

Dave: Right,right,right.

Arianna: Inthesameway,sincewearealladdictedtoourphonesinsomewayoranother,andmostpeopledon'thaveyourwillpower,wejustneedtoseparateourselves.

Dave: Thatworkswell,ya.

Arianna: Dotheritual.Sherry[inaudible00:21:34],youknowtheMITprofessorwho'swrittenthosegreatbooksaboutourrelationshipwithtechnologysaysthatifyou'rehavingdinnerwithafriendandyourphoneisonthetable,evenifitisoff,itaffectstheconversation.

Dave: Itdoes.

Arianna: It'sareminderofanotherrealitythatcaninterruptyourlifeatanymoment.

Dave: It'satoughone,becauseIgetallsortsofdataandIliketomeasurewhatworks.Ijusthadawhole-body,high-resolutionDEXAScandone.DEXAlooksatbonedensity,specifically.I,yearsago,madeacommitment,I'mnotcarryingmycellphoneinmyfrontpocketormybackpocket.Now,yourfrontpocketistooclosetothereproductiveequipment,andyourcellphonesareshowntoeffectthat,andIdon'twantitnearmyspinalcord.Ikeepitonmyside.It'slikealittle...Mypantshavealittle-

Arianna: Oh,yeah,Icansee.

Dave: Cargopantskindofpocket.Well,guesswhatmyDEXAScanshowed?ItshowedthatbecauseIcarrymyphonethere,myrightfemurhas10%lessbonedensitythanmyleftone.

Arianna: Wow.

Dave: Eventhoughthisismydominantleg,whereitshouldbemorebonedensity.Socellphonesarebadforyou,biologically,theyjustare.Havingitturnedoninyourbedroomissobadforyou.Theotherthingthatwedothat'sunusual,isIhadthehouserewired,sothatIhavearemotecontrolforthekids'bedroomsandmybedroom,whereIcanpresstheremotecontrol,anditphysicallydisconnectstheroomsfromthepowergrid.

Arianna: Wow.


Dave: Wesleepinaroomthathasnoelectricitygoingon.

Arianna: That'sfantastic.

Dave: It'sasclosetocaveaswecanget.We'reelectricallygrounded,wehaveblackoutcurtains,andyouknowwhat,mykidshavesleptthroughthenightsincetheywereoneyearold.Theydon'twakeupinthemiddleofthenight.Theygorightbacktosleep.Thesleepproblemswentwaydowninourhouse,becauseunfortunately,thesedevices,eventhoughthey'reincrediblyusefulandvaluable,ifyou'reswimminginthatallthetime,maybethat'snotsogoodforyou,right?

Arianna: Well,that'sit,it'sreallythefactthatweareswimminginthemandweareswimminginaculturethatprizesbeingalwayson.That'stheotherculturalchangethatwearetryingtoaffectthroughThriveGlobal.Wearetryingtochangetheculturalnormssothatitisactuallyprizedtodisconnect.Wearecreatingthisappthatturnsyoursmartphoneintoadumbphoneforspecifiedperiodsoftime.

Let'ssayyouandIarehavingdinner,andyourCOOtextsyou,shewillgetatextbackthatsays"Davidispowereddown,he'llbebackonatsuchandsuchatime."Notonlyisn'tsheabletogetyou,butshegetsamessagethattellsherthatyouareactuallydeliberatelypowereddown,whichbeginstochangetheculture.

Dave: That'scool.

Arianna: Youknow,fromDaveisalwayson,he'samazing,whichiswhatwesaynow,right?

Dave: Right.

Arianna: ToDaveisimportantenoughandvalueshimselfenoughtogooffthegridfordinner.

Dave: Yeah,distractionisasignof[inaudible00:24:34]-

Arianna: Thatbecomesvalued,then.

Dave: Yeah.

Arianna: Becauseit'slike"Hey,youknow,shecandothat.Ifshecandothat,maybeIcandothat."That'showyouchangetheculture.

Dave: Itdoes,absolutely,changetheculture,andI'veinthelastcoupleyearshadachancetoworkwithaveryinfluential,wealthysetofbusinessexecutivesandcelebritiesjustbecauseofBulletproofandsomeoftheworkI'mdoingwithDallas.You'veknownmanyofthesamepeople.There'sbeenashift.Wherethey'rewillingtogoonvacationwithoutcellphones.

Arianna: Yes.


Dave: They'reactuallybuildingitintotheirlives,butit'sanultimateformofluxury.Idon'tthinkthatmindsethaspercolatedornot.

Arianna: Penetrated,no.Becauseyoustillhave,mostcorporations...Lookatthelanguage,youknow?Daveisamazing,heworks24-seven,howoftendoyouhearthat?Which,ifyoulookatthescience.

Dave: Yeah.

Arianna: Working24-sevenisthecognitiveequivalentofcomingtoworkdrunk.

Dave: Right.

Arianna: Youwouldneversay"Youknow,Daveisamazing,hejusthadfiveshotsandcametowork."

Dave: Alotofpeopledoboth.AsfarasIcantellyou.Youburnyourselfout,theoddsofcomingtoworkdrunkgoup.

Arianna: Exactly.

Dave: Peoplestart[inaudible00:25:39]medicated.

Arianna: Alsocomingtoworkafteryou'vestuffedyourselfwithanenormousamountofcarbsandsugar.Becauseourbodiescravecarbsandsugarwhenwe'resleepdeprived.

Dave: That'sverytrue.

Arianna: Imean,lookatallthebreakfastattheseeventsthatwegoandspeakat.It'slikeallcarbsandsugarandyouthink"Why?"It'slike"Haveyoureadanythingaboutthelatestscienceornutrition?Canwehavesomeeggs"

Dave: IjustbringtheBulletproofTeamwithme,justdocoffeedemos,thenIcangointhebackanddrinkmyBulletproofCoffee.Like,that'smybreakfast.Itmakes[inaudible00:26:13],becauseIalsofindthatcarbsandsugareffectsleep.Ifyou'reonazerocarbdietforlongperiodsoftime,especiallywomen,itcanruinyoursleep.

WhenIdidthreemonthsofalmostnocarbs,likeoneservingofveggiesaday,likeveryhighketosis,mysleepmonitoringsystemsaidthatIwaswakingup10to12timesanightwithoutknowingit.Ididn'thavesleepapnea.

Arianna: Right.

Dave: Butmybodywaslike"Ineedcarbstomakeneurotransmitters."

Arianna: Andyoudidn'thaveanygoodfats.


Dave: Ihadlotsofgoodfats.

Arianna: Nowyoudo,yeah.

Dave: Eventhen,Idid.ThisiswhenIwaswritingtheresearchfortheBulletproofdiet.Ithought"Well,I'mgoingtotrylikeanEskimodiet."Likereallyhardketosis,andwhathappenedwasthatitruinedmysleepandIdidn'thaveenoughtears,becauseIdidn'thavethesugarthatittakestodothat.

Arianna: You'renowtakinggoodcarbs?

Dave: Oh,absolutely.It'spartoftheBulletproofdiet.

Arianna: Yes.

Dave: Istosay"Look,youneedtocycleinandout,andifyouwanttosleepwell,youneedtohaveamoderateamountofgoodcarbs."

Arianna: Right.

Dave: Maybenoteveryday.It'sokaytogoafewdayswithoutcarbs.

Arianna: Somevegetablesandsalad,yeah.

Dave: Right,yeah,butifyoudon'tdothatandyou'resuper-keto,somepeopledookay,butalotofpeople,theirsleep,afteramonthortwo.

Arianna: Right.

Dave: It'snotrightaway.Youfeelamazing,youmightsleepbetter.Thatideaofjustlikeyoumentioned,stressrecovery.Ifyouneverhaveanystress,youwon'tgrow.It'sstress,recover,stress,recover.

Arianna: Right.

Dave: Exerciseisstress,andthenyourecover,butifyouexerciseallthetimeandneverrecover,yougetburntout.

Arianna: Well,that'swhatathletesaredemonstrating.WedidaseriesforThriveGlobalonathletes,westartedwithAndreIguodala,whoisalsoaninvestorinthecompany.He'sanMVP,GoldenStateWarriors,etcetera.Hetrackedtheimpactonhisperformance,ofgettingenoughsleep,andit'ssodramatic.Infact,IwasatCES,theConsumerElectronicShowinLasVegaswithKevinPlank,theCEOofUnderArmour,andIwaspartofthepresentationaboutperformance.Youknow,UnderArmourisaperformance-basedcompany,butthey'verecognizedtheimportanceofsleepasaperformanceenhancer.


They'veproducedthisnewsleepwearthathelpsyousleep.Ithinkit'sanincrediblecompetitiveadvantageforacompanytoownsleepasaperformanceenhancer.

Dave: Itabsolutelyis.TheUnderArmourstuffisneat.MynewbookiscalledHeadstrong.It'saboutmitochondrialfunctionandhowimprovingmitochondriaimprovesyourbrain,improvesyoursleep,improvesyourhormones.It'sliketheunderlyingthingthatcontrolsyourbodythatyouwouldneverguess.Doyouhaveenoughpowerrightnow,yesorno?Thesearelittletinybacteriathatwould[inaudible00:28:43]intoourcells.

Arianna: Right.

Dave: OneofthepartsofresearchIcameacrossinthisbookisthatinfraredissomethingthatyourmitochondriamake,andinfraredchangesthewaterinyourbody,soithelpsyourbodyworkbetter.TheUnderArmourtechnologyyou'rementioning.

Arianna: Yes.

Dave: Reflectsinfraredlightfromyourmitochondriabackonthemselves,sotheyhavetodolessworktochangethewaterinthem.Youthink"What,I'mjustsleeping?Water,infrared?"Here'sthething,asmallchangeinyoursleepenvironmentequalshigherperformancethenextday.Makeitdarker,yousleepbetter,makeitcolder,yousleepbetter.Makeitquieter,yousleepbetter.Reduceinterruptions,yousleepbetter.

Allofthosemightbeatwopercentorafivepercentimprovement.

Arianna: Itaddsup.

Dave: A25%improvementfrom10ofthesethingsmightreallymatter.

Arianna: Absolutely,andpeoplearebeginningtorealizethatit'sreallyexcitingtoseethisconversationbepartofbusinessmagazines.Ithinkit'sreallyimportanttoseehowthishasmovedoutoftheyogajournal.

Dave: Yeah.

Arianna: Andtobusinessmagazines,athleticmagazines,sowherepeoplecareaboutperformanceandproductivity.They'realsonowlookingatthelatestscience.Ithinkit'sreallyimportantsinceweclaimtobedata-driven.Wecannolongerignorethedata.

Dave: Thedataisreallystrong,especiallywhenyoulookatthebrain.Iopened,earlierthisyear,theworld's,probably,mosthighest-endneurosciencetrainingfacility,tomakehealthybrainssuperbrains.WetakeCEOtypesthroughafive-dayprogram,andtheyhavetogetenoughsleep,becauseeveryday,we'redoingneurofeedback,basicallytothepointwheretheycan'tdoanymoretoteachthemtodowhatadvancedZenmastersdowithinfivedays.


Withlongstandingchangesinthebrain.Iftheysabotagethemselvesbygettingfivehoursofsleep.

Arianna: Yes.

Dave: Theycan'tdothetrainingthatI'vestarted.YoucanseeasleepybrainonanEEGmachine.ItactuallyhashighlevelsofTheta.You'rebasicallydaydreaming,andyourlevelsofAlpha,whichiswhereyouwanttobeabletobepresent,they'remuchlower.Theheightofthewavesyouwantislower,andthechaoticstormy,like,day-dreamywaves,theonesthatmadeitsothatyouandIcouldbothgotosleepinthreeseconds,anytimeitwasdark.Thosewerealwaysstorming.

Asabrainthatgetsenoughsleepcanbemoreorderlyandmoreorganized,andthenyoumakegooddecisions.Thosedecisions,theymightbedecisions...Youknow,Igotanurgetoyellatmykids,butIdecidedtosuppresstheurge.

Arianna: Right.

Dave: Insteadof"IyelledatmykidsandthenIfeltlikeIwasajerk."Ifeellikethere'sliketensofthousandsofdecisionsweallmakeeveryday,andthatwe'rewiredtobekindtoeachother.Ifyou'retiredallthetime,you'regoingtooverexerciseyourmiddlefingerintraffic.Youknow?You'rejustnotgoingtobethekindofhumanyouknowyou'recapableofbeing.

Arianna: Absolutely.

Dave: That'swhyIwantedtointerviewaboutyournewfocuswithThriveGlobal,becauseyou'rehittingononeofthethingsthatmakesusbetterpeople.Notjusthigherperformingpeople.

Arianna: Exactly,andyouknow,wefindexactlywhatyousaidinourtrainingswithUber,forexample.Wecallonepartofourtraining"Don'tcrossyourredline.Andherearethesignsthatyou'regettingclosetoyourredline."Thephysicalsignsareobvious,youknow?Youaretired.

Thementalsignsarealsoobvious.Youknow,youareoperatinginafog,asyoudescribed.

Dave: Right.

Arianna: Chaoticthoughts.Theemotionalsignsarealsoobvious,becauseyouareoverreacting.Anytimeyouoverreacttobadthingshappening,whichbadthingswillhappenconstantly,allday.Yourchildwilldosomethingyoudon'tlike,yourbosswilldosomethingyoudon'tlike.

Dave: Right.


Arianna: Youremployeeswilldosomethingyoudon'tlike.Ourcapacitytomanageourstressdependsonhowdoyoureacttobadthingshappening?Imean,ifwewerewaitingforadaywhenonlygoodthingshappen,it'snotgoingtocome.Ithinklearningthesethingsandlearninghowtonavigateourdaydifferentlyisgoingtohaveahugetransformativeinfluenceonthewaywelive,thewaywework,thewaywerunourbusinesses.

I'mreally,reallyexcitedaboutthefuture.

Dave: It'slookingbetterbecausewhenwestepoutofthat"Ihavetobeinvulnerable"sortofthingwhereIcannevershowweakness,whichisreallythebusinesscultureinSiliconValleywhereIkindofcutmyteeth,butalsoonWallStreet,andalotofbusiness,inanysalesorientedculture,it'sthesameway.Whereevenifyou'reabouttocollapse,you'dnevershowit.

Wherepeoplearejustsaying"Look,Ineedabreak."Needisactuallyawordthattheymeantosay.

Arianna: Yeah.

Dave: Like,IneeditbecauseI'mnotgoingtoperformwellifIdon'tdothis.

Arianna: Exactly.

Dave: Anotherinterestingstudy,Ilookedalotatbloodsugarregulation.Iusedtohave...Iwaspre-diabeticwhenIweighed300pounds,andIjustgotmyresultsback.Myinsulinsensitivityisthemostsensitiveyoucanget.It'sone.Anythingabove60isbad,anythingabove120isdiabetic.It'sasperfectasyoucanget.Thisisabigchange.

Itrequiresthatyousleep,becauseonenightofmissedsleepequalsa40%reductioninyourabilitytoregulateyourbloodsugar.Youcanbehealthy,oratleastmoderatelyhealthy,andthenyoumisssleep,oryourjetlaggedorwhatever,andthen,allthesudden,youhavethebloodsugaractivityofapre-diabetic,orevenatypetwodiabeticjustfrommissingsleep.

Thenyougetthecravings,thenyoueatthecravings,whichthenmakesyougoupanddownandyoudon'tsleepthenextnightbecauseyouhaveextracortisolandyouenduponthishorribletreadmill.It'sdrivenbybiology.Like,ourbodylistens,isitdarkorisitnotdark?Isitnighttime,isitnotnighttime?AmIfreakingout,orcanIgotosleep,andIwon'tsleep.

It'snotthathardwhenyoulookatitthatway,butwhenyou'relike"WhatifsomeoneknowsthatIneedtosleep?"Iwasinspiredbyourlastinterview,whenyouwerejustwillingtotalkabout"Hey,thisiswhathappenedtome."

Arianna: Right.


Dave: You'reaprettydarnedaccomplishedbusinessperson.Yet,okay,I'mgoingtostandupandtalkaboutit.Sincethen,I'veseenasubstantialnumberofverywell-respectedexecutivesjuststandup,andtheykindoffollowyourleadandsay"Yeah,youknow,Isleep."Or"Youknow,ifIdon'tmeditate,I'mnotaverygoodperson."

Arianna: Yes.

Dave: Itseemslikesomethingshifted,justinthelastthreeyears.

Arianna: Somethinghasshifted.Absolutely.It'sexcitingtosee.It'salmostlikeCEOsarecomingout,notasbeinggay,butasmeditatingorsleepingortakingcareofthemselvesandmakingtheconnectbetweenthatandbeingbetterattheirjobs.

Dave: Itismyexperience,asaformerSiliconValleygeek,andjustasaCEOnow,ifIdon'tcontrolthatonevariableinmyenvironment,I'mjustnotasnice.Idon'twanttobemeantothepeoplewhosupporttheBulletproofvision.I'dfeelbadaboutthat.It'sabusinessrequirement,andmyexecutiveassistantsknowverywell,don'tschedulethingsthataregoingtodisruptmysleep.

Arianna: Right.

Dave: Unlesswetalkaboutitaheadoftime,andifIneedtodoacallwithJapanorsomewhere,thenI'lldoit,I'llmaketimetodoit,butthen,I'mnotgoingtoscheduleasevenAMcallthenextmorning.

Arianna: Exactly.

Dave: Becauseit'stooexpensivetodothat,right?

Arianna: Absolutely.It'sgreattolookatthat.

Dave: It'salmosttooexpensivenottodoit.It'safinancialcostthatcomesfrommakingabadsleepdecision.

Arianna: Yes,becauseIthinkwehavesomanyexecutivesnow,whoarewillingtoacknowledgethatthebiggestmistakestheymade,theymadewhentheyweretired.Iknowwe,forexample,welaunchedapartnershipwithJPMorgan.Itwasa28-daychallengetoalltheglobalemployees.Youknow,370,000employees.

Theywereaskedtoparticipateinoneofourchallenges;sleep,unpluggingandrecharging,gratitude,andmindfulness.Whatwasamazingistoseeseniorexecutivestalkingabouttheirownchallengeandwhattheyweregoingtodo.Theimpactithadonthecompany,andforme,it'sjustanothergreatindicationofthezeitgeist,andofhowamajorbanklikeJPMorganiswillingtoacknowledgethatthey'regoingtohavebetteremployees.KristinLemkau,whoistheirchiefmarketingofficer,wroteinapieceforusthatshecouldcategoricallysaythatallthemistakesshemadeinbusinesswerewhenshewastired.


Dave: Howaboutthelatenighte-mail,orbeforeyougotobed,thatyou'llsendtosomeone,andthenthenextmorningyou'relike"Ican'tbelieveIsentthat,ohno."I'vehadafewofthose.Youprobablyhavetoo,right?

Arianna: That'sright,that'swhyyouhavetopickatime,atleasthalfanhourbeforeyou'regoingtogotosleep,whenyouturnoffyourphone,ideally,takethemoutofyourbedroomorputtheminyourphonebed.Then,haveatransitiontosleep.Youhavechildren.Youknowwhentheywerelittle,youdon'tjustdroptheminbed.Yougivethemabath,youputthemintheirPJs,youreadthemastory.

IwroteaparodyofGoodnightMoon,calledGoodnightSmartphonethatAudibleisbringingoutlaterinJanuary.Allofthesethingsareavailabletousastoolstohelpustakecareofourselvesandasaresult,bebetteratourjobs.

Dave: Let'stalkaboutsomethingelseinyourworkwithJPMorgan,andyoutalkedaboutgratitude.AttheBulletproofSeniorLeadershipMeetings,likeeveryweek,wehaveourexecutivecalllikemostcompaniesdo.Weopenitwhereeveryonegoesthroughandtalksaboutsomethingthatthey'regratefulforthatweek.Nottome,justaboutthebusiness,butsometimesmykidsgraduated-

Arianna: [inaudible00:38:26].That'sgreat,Ilovethat.

Dave: Youknow,Igotagoodnight'ssleeporwhatever,butit'sapartofourcultureandwe'redoingthatsincethestartofthecompany.I'mwonderingwhatdidyouaskJPMorgantodothatIcansteal?

Arianna: Oh,wellactually,allthatwedidistoaskthemtorecognizethatprioritizingthewellbeingoftheiremployeesisgoingtoimprovethebottomline.

Dave: Okay.

Arianna: Onceyouacceptthat,everythingelsefollows.Youknow,everycompanyhasdifferentpainpoints.Youknow,acompanymayhavearetentionpainpoint,orarecruitmentpainpoint,butwhateverthepainpoints,thesolutionliesinrecognizingthere'saconnectionbetweenwellbeingandperformance.

Dave: Allright,Iabsolutelylovethatanswer,andit'saccordedbothofourbeliefsystems.We'recomingtoontheendoftheinterview.WhenIinterviewedyou,thiswasabouttwoandahalfyearsago.IaskedyoutheBulletproofquestion,andIthinkanswerswillprobablyhaveshiftednow.I'mgoingtoaskyouthesamequestion.Iwasgoingtosay:tellmethreethingsthatwillmakeussleepbetter,butit'smoreinteresting.Ifsomeonecametoyoutoday,andtheysaid"Arianna,basedonallyou'velearnedthelastfewyears,andevenbeforethat,IwanttoperformbetterateverysinglethingIdo,whatarethethreemostimportantpiecesofknowledgeIneed?"

Whatwouldyouoffertoday?


Arianna: Iwouldsaythefirst,mostimportantthingissortofphilosophical.It'snottocompletelyidentifywithyourjob.

Dave: Oh,amen.

Arianna: Because,nomatterhowmagnificentyourjobis,whoyouareasahumanbeingismoreimportant,moresacredthanyourjob.Theminuteyouforgetthat,you'reatthemercyofevents.

Dave: Yeah.

Arianna: Becauseeventhemostsuccessfulcareerhasproblems,haschallenges.Ifyouthinkthisiswhoyouare,thenyou'regoingtobeatthemercyoftheseevents.Yourstresslevelsandyourhappinesslevelsandyourhealtharegoingtobeatthemercyoftheevents.

Thesecondthingisphysical,andmental,andemotional.It'severythingwe'vebeentalkingabout,whichisrecognizingthattakingcareofourselves,puttingourownoxygenmaskfirstisgoingtomakeusbetterateverything.Ourjobs,andourparenting,ourrelationships,everything.

ThethirdthingistorememberwhatColettesaid,theFrenchwriter,shesaid"Um,Ihadsuchawonderfullife,IjustwishIhadrealizeditsooner."

Dave: Kindoflikegratitude.

Arianna: Ithinkmostofusfocusonthethingsthatarenotworkinginourlives,ratherthanthethingsthatareworking.It'salmostlikeanevolutionaryfight-or-flightmodethatwetendtogointo.Ithinktryingtofocusonwhatisworkingisincrediblypowerful,andrememberingeveryday,especiallybeforeyougotosleeptodoashortgratitudelist,beginstochangethequalityofyourlife.

Dave: Allright,it'ssuchapowerfullist.Wetalkedaboutgratitudeatthecompanymeetings.Forthepast,Ithink,fourorfiveyearsnow,withmykidsthataresevenandnine,everynightbeforebed,Isay"Tellmethreethingsyou'regratefulfor."

Arianna: Fantastic.

Dave: That'spartofournightlyritual.Usuallyit's"I'mgratefulforsomethingkindoftrivial,becausethey'relittlekids."Notsolongago,whenAlwasaboutfive,hesaid"I'mgratefulfortheBigBang,becausewithoutthat,therewouldn'tbeanything."

Arianna: Oh,that'ssogreat.

Dave: Whatacool[inaudible00:42:06].

Arianna: Ilovethat.


Dave: [inaudible00:42:07]Youneverknowwhat'sgoingtocomeoutof[inaudible00:42:12]

Arianna: TellhimtowriteforThriveGlobal.

Dave: Allright,I'lltellhim.

Arianna: Sure.

Dave: Thelettersmightbebackwards.

Arianna: That'sfine.

Dave: Onthatnote,Arianna,peoplecanfindoutaboutThriveGlobalatThriveGlobaldotcom.Anythingelseyouwanted[inaudible00:42:25]-

Arianna: Iwanttoinviteanybodywhoiswatchingustotellustheirstories.Towritethemforyoursite,forThriveGlobaldotcom.Wejustwanttocollectasmanystoriesaspossible.Itcouldbestoriesofburnout,wake-upcalls,itcouldbestoriesofwhatyouaredoingtomakeyourlifebetterthatotherscanlearnfrom.Themorewecansharethesestories,thefasterwe'llacceleratethecultureshift.

Dave: Well,Iappreciatetheworkthatyou'redoingonmakingpeopleawareofthesethingsbecausepeopleareactuallybetterthantheythinktheyare,whentheygetenoughsleep.Itrulybelievethatwe'remeanttobenicetoeachother,we'remeanttobekind.We'rewiredthatway.It'sjustlifestylecrapthatgetsinthewayofthat.You're[inaudible00:43:12]going,andthankyou.

Arianna: Thankyouforeverything,includingtheBulletproofCoffeeIdrinkeverymorning.

Dave: You'resowelcome.

Howdidwedo?

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