abbott on mh17, work for the dole

8/12/2019 Abbott on MH17, Work for the Dole

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PRIME MINISTER29 July 2014

TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER

THE HON. TONY ABBOTT MP

INTERVIEW WITH JUSTIN SMITH

RADIO 2UE, SYDNEY

Subjects: Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17; Work for the Dole; #spacenoodle.

E&OE.

JUSTIN SMITH:

The Prime Minister is on the line, Tony Abbott. Prime Minister, thank you very much for your time.

PRIME MINISTER:

Gday, Justin.

JUSTIN SMITH:

What have you heard about this information that fighting may have stopped the team from getting through?

PRIME MINISTER:

Well, this was a matter that was in the hands of our people on the spot. Yes, there was fighting yesterday and

there was fighting the day before. A few hours ago we were optimistic that there was an agreement with

both the Ukrainian Government and with the separatists for a humanitarian corridor to be opened for the

Dutch/Australian mission to go in. I havent heard that its been turned around. A couple of hours ago, wewere optimistic that it would be able to go through but, in the end, this is a decision for the people on the

spot. We want to get in as quickly as we can, as safely as we can, and thats a judgment that can only be

made by the people on the ground.

JUSTIN SMITH:

As Ive mentioned, it has been a sad couple of weeks but it must be enormously frustrating, because you

have talked to the families and not being able to give them the full story because we simply dont have the

full story. It must be incredibly tough on them.


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PRIME MINISTER:

Look, it is. Weve got a reasonably good idea that the plane was brought down by a missileI think thats

absolutely crystal clearbut the forensic detail is yet to be worked out and that will happen in coming days

and weeks.

But look, this is an atrocityits not an accident, its an atrocity. The tragedy for the families is not only

have they lost their loved ones under appalling circumstances, but inevitably, theres going to be quite a long

wait before their loved ones come home because we know from experience at Bali that when youve got

very badly damaged bodies it does take a long time to get the identification right and even to talk about this

is a wrench, but nevertheless, thats the truth. In Bali , I think we got the first body identified after about

three weeks and the last one I think took almost five months, so thats an indication of the timeframes that

may well apply here as well.

JUSTIN SMITH:

I know that these would be incredibly personal conversations that you would have with the families, but if

youre able to share with us, what are you able to say to them? What things have you been saying to them?

PRIME MINISTER:

Well, I guess the first thing to say, Justin, is that I feel hopelessly inadequate in these kinds of conversations.

I suspect almost anyone would. Its, in a sense, a privilege to be able to talk to people, even under these

circumstances, but Im very conscious of the inadequacy of my words, of I suspect anyones words, but of

the importance of contact being made and of something being said, because when people are in the most

grievous pain, when an unimaginable void has opened up, I guess thats when you want some people to

reach out to you and naturally you want your nearest and dearest to reach out first and foremost. You want

to be reminded of love at a time when loved ones have been taken away and I guess you also want to know

that at every level of the system people care. So, thats what Ive been trying to do in my own way, thats

what Julie Bishop has been doing because shes made quite a number of calls,I think the Governor-Generalhas been making a number of calls and, obviously, family members near and far, friends near and far,

neighbours, I think the broader Australian family has taken people into its arms.

JUSTIN SMITH:

When you talk to the families, do they feel supported by Australia? Because, I really hope so.

PRIME MINISTER:

Yeah, theres been a universal, at least amongst the families that Ive spoken to and I havent been able to

speak to all of them because not all of them wanted a call from a politician but amongst the families thatIve spoken to, theres been universal praise for the work of our officials. As you know, or as your listeners

probably know, Justin, within 24 hours the next of kin and the families had been contacted by the

Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade Crisis Team and every family has had a dedicated DFAT officer to

stay in regular touch and that will continue for many weeks and months to come. Theres been an AFP team;

again, every familys had a dedicated member until some of the forensic issues have been sorted through.

So, theres been a lot of serious contact between the Government and families and next of kin at all levels

and I think that even through their terrible pain, families have been fairly appreciative of whats been done.

JUSTIN SMITH:

Because I think, and its certainly not about politics, but I think people from all around Australia feel very

proud of you, they feel very proud of Julie Bishop and the way that you have both conducted yourselves and


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the support that you have given. How has this affected you? Have you had the chance to stop and think

about how its affected you?

PRIME MINISTER:

Well, Justin, its not about me and much as I similarly admire the work that Julie Bishop has done, I admire

the work that the Governor-General has done, I admire the work that our people at every level, from the

CDF and the AFP Commissioner down to the people who are right now in Ukraine or deploying to Ukraine,

I admire all of their work. But it isnt about us; its about the Australian people and

JUSTIN SMITH:

No, I understand that, but you represent us through them and

PRIME MINISTER:

Indeed I do, Justin, but look, Im sure Julie would say the same thing: we have simply been doing our job.

When our country faces a serious challenge like thisand it is a serious challenge when 38 of your own

citizens are shot out of the sky by people who frankly should never, ever have been given access toweaponry of this typewhen 38 of your people have been shot out of the sky in this way you do have to I

guess lead the nation in anger, but you cant let anger cloud your judgment. Youve got to then respond in a

way which respects peoples loss, which stands up for our values and our citizens and their rights, and which

is appropriate with the behaviour of a serious and self-respecting country.

JUSTIN SMITH:

But you mentioned anger, and Im glad you did because its an important emotion. Weve felt sad but we

also need to feel angry otherwise were not going to get any answers here. Are you satisfied with the

communication that you have with Vladimir Putin? Is he an honourable man? Are you able to talk with him

properly?

PRIME MINISTER:

Well, Justin, I have, to President Putins credit, been able to have a number of conversations with him. Ive

had a number of conversations with quite a few international leaders over the last 10 days or so and,

certainly, they have all expressed very deep sympathy and condolences for Australias loss and for the losses

of the other countries such as the Netherlands and Malaysia and all have pledged cooperation. But where I

guess we want to seepeoples words backed up with actions on the ground in the Eastern Ukraine and at the

moment, fighting is raging between Russian-backed separatists and the Ukrainian Government.

Both the separatists, through the Organisation for Security Co-operation in Europe, the UkrainianGovernment, through its people from President Poroshenko down, and indeed the Russians, through

President Putin, have all said that they want the fighting to stop, at least insofar as is necessary for the site to

be secured, the bodies to be recovered, the investigation to be assisted and justice to be done. Theyve all

said that, and I guess what Im hoping is that all of them will be as good as their word and were making the

strongest, sternest representations possible at every level, to all of the people who have some influence on

the ground, to make sure that this happens as quickly as it can.

JUSTIN SMITH:

Do you believe that President Putin is doing everything he can to make it happen?


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PRIME MINISTER:

Well, Ill be in a muchbetter position to speak of all of the actors in this situation when we have secured our

objectives, and the point I keep making is that our objective

JUSTIN SMITH:

But surely it is a part of those objectives? We need his help.

PRIME MINISTER:

Yes, Justin. And Justin, our objective is to get in, to get cracking, to get out. It didnt work on Sunday, it

didnt work yesterday, lets see if it works today. But, if at first you dont succeed, try, try, and try again.

We will not be readily deterred here. We have a mission. Of all of the people who are currently involved in

the situation in the Eastern Ukraine, the Dutch and the Australians have a pure and simple and moral

mission: its to get in there, to get our people out and to bring them home.

JUSTIN SMITH:

Prime Minister, part of that anger has manifested itself into not allowing President Putin to come to

Australia for the G20. Is that a decision youve made yet?

PRIME MINISTER:

Look, the point Ive made from the beginning is that the G20 is aneconomic forum, its not a security

forum, and my hope is that the G20 can gather in the normal way and look at how we can collectively and

collegially improve the economy of the world, improve the way the worlds economies interact so that

everyone can be better off. And plainly, the more significant economic players are there, the more likely it is

that we will get a good result. So, thats my hope for the G20

JUSTIN SMITH:

So, at this stage Putin is still coming?

PRIME MINISTER:

Well, the G20 is four months away and the point Ive been making about everyone in the drama unfolding in

the Eastern Ukraine now is theyve all said the right thing, lets try to ensure that everyone is as good as his

word and if everyone is as good as his word, we will respond accordingly.

JUSTIN SMITH:

Prime Minister, if you dont mind, I just want to ask you quickly, I know you need to get away but youve

released your detailsfor want of a better termthe Work for the Dole policy, youve releasedyour detail

on that.

PRIME MINISTER:

Its not just Work for the Dole, althoughWork for the Doles an important aspect of it.

What it is, Justin, is its an exposure draft for the next Job Services Australia tender round, so this is aboutthe work that government funded agencies will do with unemployed people to try to reintegrate them into

the economy or, in the case of Work for the Dole, not only reintegrate them into the economy but, as well,


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try to reintegrate them into society, because inevitably, if you are at a loose end for a long time, its easy to

drift out of contact and Work for the Dole in all of its various manifestations is an opportunity for people to

show what they can do rather than what they cant do.

JUSTIN SMITH:

The concern thats been brought up today and I just want to play you something very quickly. I talked to

Peter Strong, hes the President of the Council of Small Business of Australia , with concerns over the 40

jobs that people will need to apply for. Just a quick listen, if you dont mind, Prime Minister.

PETER STRONG:

Forty visits per month is just going to create a nightmare. Its not workable and I feel very confident the

Government wont go ahead with that particular part of their strategy.

JUSTIN SMITH:

Do you think that youll keep that part of the policy?

PRIME MINISTER:

Well, I hear what Peter Strong is saying. I know Peter Strong. Hes been a very effective advocate for small

business and over the years in different capacities Ive had a bit to do with himand

JUSTIN SMITH:

He says he wasnt consulted on this.

PRIME MINISTER:

my ministers have had a bit to do with him. The reason why were doing this by way of exposure draft is

so that people can have a good hard look at it and say, This needs to berefined, this could be done better

and this is what a consultative and collegial government does: it puts something out, as far as is humanly

possible it puts things out and says, What do you think? Obviously, what weve put out reflects our values

and our aspirations and what we want, Justin, are jobseekers who are active, not passive. We want

jobseekers who are out there actively looking for work, not simply sitting at home peering at a computer

screen

JUSTIN SMITH:

Yeah, but I think the point theyretrying to make is for the business itself it will create red tape, somethingyou yourself are keen on getting rid of and it will be more trouble than its worth.

PRIME MINISTER:

Well, in previous timesI cant speakwith great confidence for the era of the previous government, but I

can certainly speak with some confidence of the time of the Howard Government when I was the

Employment Minister for quite a few yearsthere was a requirement for people on unemployment benefits

to make contact with potential employers and in those days, all you had to do was call or knock on the door

and make a diary entry and occasionallyoccasionally, its truea Centrelink officer or a Job Network

officer would ring an employer and say, So and so has indicated that he or she made contact with you in his

or her search for a job. Now, it wasnt particularly burdensome. Yes, from time to time youd have smallbusiness people say, Oh, people are knocking on my door asking me for jobs and, you know


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JUSTIN SMITH:

Ok, so what is your plan for this time around, Prime Minister? Will you push on with the 40 jobs a month

plan? Is that going to continue?

PRIME MINISTER:

Well, let me ask you this question, Justin. If you were unemployed and you were on a benefit, you would

want to make at least some step towards getting a job pretty much once a day, wouldnt you?

JUSTIN SMITH:

I would. I would, but I guess

PRIME MINISTER:

Its not an unreasonable expectation or aspiration that we have now.

JUSTIN SMITH:

But I guess whats unclear for the Small Business Council and they can speak for themselves, they dont

need me speaking for them, but it depends on what the person does. Is it 40 interviews a month, is it 40

phone calls, is it 40 emails or is it just 40, you know, entries into a diary? I think thats still unclear, thats

their concern.

PRIME MINISTER:

And that is exactly the kind of thing that well be talking to people about over the next few weeks before we

crystallise things. As I said, under the former governmentunder the Howard governmentit was

effectively a diary entry which was occasionally audited by Centrelink and

JUSTIN SMITH:

Alright

PRIME MINISTER:

So we want to do two things. First of all, we want to ensure that people on unemployment benefits really are

serious in looking for work, but we dont want to unnecessarily burden small business.

On the other hand, given that so many people in small business say that it is hard to get staff, maybe its nota bad thing if sometimes someone comes in and knocks on the door and says well if youre looking for

work, if youre looking for staff, if youre looking for a worker, Im available.

JUSTIN SMITH:

So the answer is I guess that its not set in concrete yet. Youll still need to talk to a few. Will you talk to

Peter Strong at the Small Business Council?

PRIME MINISTER:

Well I may not personally speak with him, but certainly Luke Hartsuyker, whos the relevant Minister, EricAbetz, whos the relevant Cabinet Minister, as part of the consultations that theyre having now, Id be

confident that theyd be giving Peter Strong and others in his position an opportunity to say their piece.


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JUSTIN SMITH:

Prime Minister, Ill let you get away. I do thank you for your time. Theres one thing, as a Sydneysider, as a

Sydney lad, I do need to ask you about the new work of art thats going to go up in George Street. Have you

had the chance to look online at it yet?

PRIME MINISTER:

Look, I havent. I think there is a place for civic art and look, as a local member Ive been responsible for

putting a couple of statues into Manly. Theres a terrific statue of Sir Roden Cutler outside Manly Village

Public School where he attended as a youngster. So, Im in favour of public art. Im in favour of civic art.

Everyone has a different aesthetic of course and what appeals to some, doesnt necessarily appeal to others!

JUSTIN SMITH:

Yeah, thats the general feeling were getting, Prime Minister.

Thank you very much for your time. Well speak soon. Thank you.

PRIME MINISTER:

Thank you so much.

[ends]

abbott on mh17, work for the dole

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