a whole new ball game - final year project

A WHOLE NEW BALL GAME

AN ANALYSIS OF THE INFLUENCES ON AND THE EFFECTS OF

RETIREMENT ON FORMER MUNSTER PROFESSIONAL RUGBY

UNION PLAYERS

by

THOMAS FITZGERALD

A Final Year Project

Submitted in partial fulfillment of the requirements for the degree

DEGREE IN HUMAN RESOURCE MANAGEMENT

Department of Personnel & Employment Relations

Kemmy Business School

University of Limerick

UNIVERSITY OF LIMERICK

2013

PROJECT SUPERVISOR:

Dr. Jean McCarthy

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ABSTRACT

Research purpose: With its conversion from amateur to professional in 1995, and with increased

growth in popularity ever since, employment as a rugby union professional is now a viable career

option for elite athletes. This profession however, carries similar characteristics as most other

professional sports, which sees its performers having to retire at an age, not commonly associated

with the end of a “typical” career. This transition is a significant time in an athlete’s life (Alfermann,

2001) that is accompanied by a process of transition and change (Taylor et al., 2006). This project

seeks to look at the influences and psychological effects that this transition has had on retired

professional rugby union players, and to identify opportunities for interventions to facilitate a

successful transition into post-sports life.

Research design: The study employed a largely qualitative methodology, interviewing six former

Munster professional rugby players aged from 30 to 50. The interviews were semi-structured in-depth

interviews based on a previously used questionnaire, found in the work of Marthinus (2007). Further

to this, a Sports Career Termination Questionnaire (SCTQ II), designed by Cecic´ Erpicˇ (2000), was

used, to garner additional quantitative data.

Main findings: The players interviewed had transitioned in the main without any serious issues,

which have been found in previous research to include problems at psychological, psychosocial,

physical and occupational levels. There was a common worry amongst those interviewed, for future

retirees from the game. This worry stemmed from their experience, which highlighted a cause of

concern for these new players, who are now turning professional at a younger age.

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ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS

It is a pleasure to thank the many people who made this final year project possible.

I wish to state my gratitude to my supervisor, Dr. Jean McCarthy, for her guidance and

encouragement during the process of completing this project. Thank you for giving me the enthusiasm

and inspiration to complete a task, I thought was beyond me.

This project, and indeed the completion of my degree would not have been possible without the

support of my two employers, Mr. John Hegarty and Mr. Tony Donlan. Thank you for investing in my

on-going development by not only funding this degree, but providing me with resources, time and

support throughout the two years.

Thank you to the participants in the research who gave so freely of their time, and whose insight into

the subject, was enlightening to me in so many ways, far beyond the extent of this report.

To my father, Tom Fitzgerald, who showed me over my life, that hard work is its own reward. To my

own family, and my adopted families, the Costelloe’s and Gallagher’s, thank you for your continued

support over the years.

Finally to my wife Ellen and our son Thomas. Thanks for the love, encouragement and support you

have showed me over this journey. Without you this would not have been possible.

DEDICATION

Dedicated to the memory of my late uncle, Billy Walsh, whose untimely passing upon retirement

prompted me to delve into this subject matter.

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Contents

ABSTRACT .................................................................................................................................................. 2

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS .......................................................................................................................... 3

DEDICATION .............................................................................................................................................. 3

LIST OF TABLES ........................................................................................................................................ 6

DECLARATION .......................................................................................................................................... 7

CHAPTER 1 - INTRODUCTION ................................................................................................................ 8

CHAPTER 2 - LITERATURE REVIEW ................................................................................................... 11

2.1 RETIREMENT ................................................................................................................................................. 11

2.2 SPORT IS WORK ............................................................................................................................................ 13

2.3 PROFESSIONAL SPORTS AND RETIREMENT .......................................................................................... 15

2.4 INFLUENCES AFFECTING CAREER TRANSITIONS ............................................................................... 16

2.5 DIFFICULTIES EXPERIENCED BY RETIRED PROFESSIONAL RUGBY UNION PLAYERS ......... 32

2.6 LOCATING THE PROBLEM WITHIN THE LITERATURE ........................................................................ 37

2.7 RESEARCH OBJECTIVES ............................................................................................................................. 39

CHAPTER THREE – METHODOLOGY ................................................................................................. 40

CHAPTER 4 – RESULTS AND FINDINGS ............................................................................................. 45

4.1 FINDINGS ON THE INFLUENCES THAT EFFECT CAREER TRANSITIONS ........................................ 48

4.2 DIFFICULTIES EXPERIENCED BY RETIRED PROFESSIONAL RUGBY UNION PLAYERS .............. 62

4.3 FUTURE PLAYER ISSUES ............................................................................................................................ 66

CHAPTER 5 - DISCUSSION AND CONCLUSION ................................................................................ 68

5.1 DISCUSSION ................................................................................................................................................... 68

5.2 LIMITATIONS OF THE RESEARCH ............................................................................................................ 71

5.3 IMPLICATIONS FOR FUTURE RESEARCH ............................................................................................... 72

5.4 CONCLUSION ................................................................................................................................................. 73

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BIBLIOGRAPHY ....................................................................................................................................... 74

APPENDICES ............................................................................................................................................ 93

APPENDIX 1: QUESTIONNAIRE ............................................................................................................................ 94

APPENDIX 2: INTERVIEW QUESTIONS ............................................................................................................. 107

APPENDIX 3: DEMOGRAPHIC OF IRISH AND MUNSTER RUGBY PROFESSIONAL RUGBY TEAMS. ... 109

APPENDIX 4: ETHICAL CLEARANCE ................................................................................................................ 114

APPENDIX 5: INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPTS ........................................................................................................ 118

APPENDIX 5.1 - PARTICIPANT 1 .................................................................................................................... 118





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LIST OF TABLES

TABLE 1: ANNUAL ACCOUNTS FROM THE IRFU ........................................................................................................... 9

TABLE 2: PRIORITIES IN LIFE OF YOUNG ELITE RUGBY PLAYERS IN AUSTRALIA & NEW ZEALAND ........... 22

TABLE 3: AGE DEMOGRAPHIC OF PROFESSIONAL RUGBY TEAMS IN IRELAND................................................. 26

TABLE 4: FINDINGS ON MEDICAL WELFARE (NZRPA RETIRED PLAYERS SURVEY 2011) ................................. 34

TABLE 5: SALARY FINDINGS OF RETIRED RUGBY PLAYERS IN NEW ZEALAND1) ............................................. 36

TABLE 6: DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION OF INTERVIEWEES AND QUESTIONNAIRE RESPONDENTS........... 44

TABLE 7: DEMOGRAPHICS AND PARTICIPANTS ADJUSTMENT TO POST SPORT LIFE ....................................... 45

TABLE 8: TRANSITION PERIOD AND GENERAL ATTITUDE TOWARDS RETIREMENT ........................................ 46

TABLE 9: AGE AT WHICH PARTICIPANT CONSIDERED RETIREMENT AND THEIR ADJUSTMENT AND

SATISFACTION WITH POST SPORTS LIFE ...................................................................................................................... 47

TABLE 10: GRADUALNESS OF CAREER TERMINATION AND FINANCIAL DEPENDENCE ON PROFESSIONAL

RUGBY ................................................................................................................................................................................... 48

TABLE 11: ATHLETIC IDENTITY, SPORTS RELATED GOALS AND LIFE .................................................................. 53

TABLE 12: IMPORTANT THINGS YOU GAINED FROM YOUR SPORTS CAREER AND INDIVIDUALS WHO

OFFER SUPPORT AFTER RETIREMENT ........................................................................................................................... 57

TABLE 13: INFLUENCES ON YOUR DECISION TO END YOUR PROFESSIONAL SPORTS CAREER ..................... 59

TABLE 14: EMOTIONAL STATES EXPERIENCED POST RETIREMENT ...................................................................... 62

TABLE 15: PROBLEMS EXPERIENCED POST RETIREMENT AND THEIR DEGREE OF SEVERITY ....................... 64

TABLE 16: RECOMMENDATIONS ON POST RETIREMENT SERVICES ..................................................................... 70

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DECLARATION

This project is entirely my own work and has not been submitted to any other university or higher

institution or for any other academic award.

Where the work of others has been reported it has been acknowledged and referenced.

______________________________________

Thomas Fitzgerald

Student ID: 11107545

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CHAPTER 1 - INTRODUCTION

No longer does the maxim – live to work – define a life, today life after work can be equally as

rewarding, (Floyd et al. 1992). For some this new chapter in their lives affords them the opportunity

to engage in society in different ways, however, this sudden adjustment to a new daily routine can be

difficult. Exiting a career is a major life change that transforms one’s social and physical worlds, with

changes in roles, relationships and daily routines (Kim and Moen, 2001).

Much of the current research into retirement centres on how the effects of an ageing population,

flagging fertility rates (OCED, 2007), and growing public expenditure (Phillipson, 2011), will impact

upon current and future economic and social policies of governments. These policies include looking

for ways to delay retirement within the shrinking workforces, with governments such as Ireland

undertaking reforms to the National Pensions Framework, which will see the age entitlement to a state

pension increase from 66 years of age on the 1st January 2014 to 68 years of age from 1st January

2028.

As these economic and social policies talk of extending the working lives of many, it is worth noting

that not all working lives revolve around cessation at a fixed chronological age (Guillemard, 1991).

For some their chosen professions and the nature of their work dictate that retirement from one of

their careers occurs earlier in life and it is in one of these professions that our paper centres.

Professional sportspeople careers are in the main so predisposed, which sees them at a much earlier

stage in life having to cope with retirement, or as some commentators describe it, a “career transition”

(Anderson & Morris 2000, Smith & McManus 2008).This “transition”, which is normally at a

comparatively young age in the majority of professional sports, can be either where they choose to

voluntarily retire or where they are involuntarily discarded for any number of reasons including, de-

selection (Svoboda and Vanek,1982), with the old cliché of “there is no room for sentiment in

professional sport” ringing out, or injury (Elkin, 1981; Rotella and Heyman,1986). This moment for

any professional sportsperson may come at any time, be it as you make your swansong in front of a

packed sports arena, or perhaps sitting alone in a physiotherapist’s office awaiting the results of an

injury, the life of a professional athlete can be both transcendent and fragile (Danish, Petitpas, and

Hale, 1993).

McKenna et al. (2007, p. 19) based on the work of, Stephan et al. (2003) comment that this career

termination can be “associated with numerous health problems, many being underpinned by a

problematic adaptation to a new life outside elite sport”. That retiring professional sportspeople who

have invested so much in their particular field, find that once they are left with no option but to retire

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from their sport, may be left with “poor employment prospects and compromised physical and

psychological well-being” (McKenna et al. 2007, p. 20).

There are few full time professional sports played in Ireland, in the main due to the small population

size (four and half million, CSO, 2011) which affects their economic viability. One sport, which has

developed a strong full time professional base in Ireland, has been rugby union, which since turning

professional worldwide in 1995, has grown year on year in terms of both popularity and indeed

participation rates in Ireland (IRFU, 2010). The monies earned by the IRFU for television rights, for

both the national team and the provincial teams, (€16 million for year ended 30th April 2009, per the

IRFU in 2010); make it possible to have professional rugby played in Ireland. Personal tax incentives

available to players since 2002 have further facilitated its development as playing domestically and

finishing their careers in Ireland is financially beneficial to players (IRFU, 2010).

Outlined below are the most recent figures from the IRFU annual report and accounts 2012/2013, (p.

66) which outlines to some extent the growth and size of professional rugby, and the cost of

professionalism in terms of players and managers wages.

TABLE 1: ANNUAL ACCOUNTS FROM THE IRFU

2012/2013 2011/2012 2010/2011

€ € €

Total Income 65,666,586 67,181,515 69,276,830

PROFESSIONAL GAME COSTS

Player and Management Costs 28,576,706 28,648,479 28,458,178

% of total income 43.52% 42.64% 41.08%

ELITE PLAYER DEVELOPMENT

Wolfhounds/ Irish “A” team 152,186 90,851 102,488

Under 20’s 407,399 414,440 381,169

Academies 1,348,118 1,337,710 1,276,019

High performance unit 420,379 345,160 379,267

Fitness programme 596,088 443,703 557,238

Total elite player development 2,924,170 2,631,864 2,696,181

% of total income 4.45% 3.92% 3.89%

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However, the move to professionalism is in the midst of the current economic climate has proven

economically unsustainable for one element of the Irish rugby landscape, club rugby; according to the

2013 IRFU “Club Sustainability Report”. This “Club Sustainability Report” highlights the increased

costs of playing players, coupled with a fall in club sponsorship and other revenue streams, in most

cases linked to the economic downturn, has brought the issue of professionalism to the fore again. In

light of these concerns, the IRFU will effectively return the domestic club rugby game to its amateur

roots from September 2014, when payments to players will be outlawed other than those made by a

province for, Senior, Senior A, and Academy/Development, players (IRFU, 2013).

With organisations now being “increasingly challenged to understand and manage employees’

retirement expectations, and with employees’ relationships to retirement decisions and the age at

which they expect to retire likely to change as their careers unfold” (Post et al., 2013), the relative

youth of the profession of rugby and lack of experience on the transitions of former players, and the

aforementioned “possible problematic adaptation to a new life outside elite sport” (McKenna et al.

,2007, p. 19), there is a need for professional rugby union organisations to both identify and manage

the transitions that their “employees” endure.

With rugby being a relatively new profession it affords an interesting opportunity for research. With

its increased profile as a sport and a number of high profile retirements in the sport for both Munster

and Ireland in the last two years, I felt that an examination of the effects of retirement upon

professional rugby players would be timely. My research centres on the experiences of former

Munster players who kindly made themselves available for my research, and the major issues I have

identified which include;

• its practitioners will have to retire or “transition” out at a relatively young age;

• that there may be numerous reasons for this transition;

• that given the financial rewards on offer from the sport for most players, they have to pursue

careers upon retirement to sustain a standard of living;

• that with its youth as a profession that there will be “growing pains” as issues become

apparent; and

• with different demographics having now come to retirement (players who had played amateur

before professionalism was introduced and subsequently played professional, those who were

professional from the outset but who did not go through provincial academy systems, and

those players who have been professional from progressing from the provincial academy

systems right through to senior status).

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CHAPTER 2 - LITERATURE REVIEW

This section reviews the relevant literature providing a commentary on the existing state of

knowledge, theories, and empirical evidence. The implications of the findings from the review justify

the proposition to explore the influences on and effects of retirement on professional rugby union

players through qualitative methods. It concludes by building a framework for this study, by

identifying gaps in knowledge on the subject, and outlines the specific research questions and

objectives.

2.1 RETIREMENT

“Retirement is a change in employment status, from working to non-working, that is usually expected

to coincide with a predetermined age (e.g. 65), predetermined length of service (e.g. 20 to 30 years),

or health deterioration (e.g. physical disability) (Streib and Schneider, 1971). Three basic types of

retirement can be defined: (1) on-time retirement, when a worker stops working on or after a

predetermined age or length of service; (2) health-related retirement, when a worker stops working

either on, after, or prior to a predetermined age of length of service because of ill-health and/or

disability; and (3) early retirement, when a worker stops working prior to a predetermined age of

length of service where ill-health and disability are not factors” (Shim et al. 2013, p.278).

Sargent et al. (2013), who reference Anderson, 1985 and Hardy, 2011, state, that “as retirement is an

invention of the late 19th century, one that did not reach full maturity until after the Second World

War. Its extension through the 20th century, with the building of institutional arrangements to provide

retirement income, represents one of the major shifts in life course patterns over the past 200 years

(Anderson, 1985; Hardy, 2011). The experience of retirement as a distinctive life stage was not

widespread before government, firm, and occupational pension schemes became common, along with

well-defined retirement ages”.

Over the last decade, there has been a particular shift away from the notion of the traditional career,

due to increased globalisation (Burke and Ng, 2006) and technological advances (Wallace, 2004;

Burke and Ng, 2006). “A number of broad-based societal level and organizational changes have

occurred in recent years and have led to disruptions in how retirement has been experienced by

individuals, as well as how organizations try to regulate and control the exit of late career workers”

(Sargent et al. 2013). Mallon (1999, p.358) notes that “the demise of the traditional career is widely

heralded (Arthur and Rosseau, 1996; Handy, 1994; Bridges, 1995) as it is replaced by more fluid and

individual career choices”. Cawsey (1995, p.41) argues that “stable, long-term career security is

becoming a thing of the past, requiring new ways of thinking about, and framing relationships among,

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work, organisations, payment and value for effort”, with Freedman (1993) stating that the

“contemporary labour market provides almost no long-term secure jobs”. “No longer can a career be

envisioned as an upward progression through an organisational or occupational hierarchy. Rather it

must be viewed as boundaryless, variable and portfolio-orientated” (Arthur and Rosseau, 1996, Hall,

1996).

Pleau and Shauman (2009) reference Ekerdt and DeViney (1990) who outlined “five common ways to

define a population as ‘retired’: separation from a career, exit from the labour force, reduced work

hours, public or private pension receipt, or self-definition”, while Szinovacz, 2003 perceive “the

transition from work to retirement as a complex process that can follow various pathways and evolve

from multiple influences”. Pleau and Shauman (2009) highlight the contradiction to the common

notion that retirement means an abrupt end to labour force participation, with research showing that

older workers exit the workforce in complex ways (Hayward et al., 1994; Moen et al., 2000; Quinn

and Kozy, 1996; Warner et al., 2010). Researchers argue that retirement is more of a process than an

event (Marshall et al., 2001; Moen et al., 2000; Pleau, 2010), with dozens of possible combinations of

paid work and time out of the labour force. Working for pay after defining oneself as retired is more

common than generally assumed, and the stereotypical retirement experience – the abrupt ceasing of

all paid work and commencement of a life of leisure – is the experience of only about half of all

workers (Han and Moen, 1999; Maestas, 2010; Moen et al., 2000; Pleau, 2010; Ruhm, 1990).

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2.2 SPORT IS WORK

“The nature of modern professional sport as a work-like environment for participants means that there

is a focus on performance, production and profit” (Price, 2007, p.42). Horne et al. (1999) summarising

the work of Rigauer (1981), as referenced by Price (2007), who suggested that modern sport has been

shaped by its purposeful, rational, work-life behaviour patterns, which are reflected in its

organisational structure through the characteristics of division of labour, mechanisation,

rationalisation and bureaucratisation which are also evident in modern work, outline six ways that

modern sport and paid employment complement each other;

1.“The repetitive, intensive and demanding training techniques, necessary for achievement in

elite sport, reflect the alienating and dehumanising nature of the factory floor assembly line;

2. The athlete, and in particular, the elite sports team has a host of experts and “support

personnel” allocated to them. These “experts” are responsible for developing strategies and

tactics. The athletes are expected to comply with a prescribed tactical plan and fit into a fixed

division of labour that the individual or team has played no part in developing;

3. As in paid work, the athlete has limited ownership of the product where they may be able to

exercise initiative. Rigauer notes that room for exercising initiative is greater in sports than in

most forms of work but argues that the gap is constantly narrowing;

4. The nature of the bureaucratic administration of sport means that management and officials,

not athletes themselves, decide on sport-related policies;

5. The effect of these changes in modern sport is that a once amateur pastime has developed into

a demanding, achievement-orientated and alienating area of human activity. Consequently

sport loses its potential to be used as an escape from the pressures of work;

6. The idea that sport can fulfil this function of escapism is a “masking ideology”, where the real

functions of sport in modern society are hidden from participants; for example, through the

pretence of leisure, reinforcing an ethic of hard work, achievement and group loyalty, all of

which are necessary for the operation of an advanced industrial capitalist society” (Price, 2007,

p. 42).

Coakley (1994) suggests that professional sports have features, some of which resonate with paid

employment, which include;

• Career opportunities for athletes are highly limited;

• Career opportunities for athletes are short term;

• Most career opportunities in high level sport do not result in fame and fortune;

• Opportunities for women, ethnic minorities, the elderly and disabled are extremely limited.

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During the past two or three decades, there has been a significant change in how the sports industry

has operated and in particular the increased removal of sport from its amateur foundations. Sport as a

commodity is increasingly integrated with entertainment, media organisations and transnational

corporations, where it has become part of internationally traded goods and services (Price, 2007).

Some participants are now viewed as “media-athletes”, which has increased their social significance

(Torregrosa et al., 2004), and with the current financial rewards being offered to them, further

separate them from “normal” people (Newman, 1989, Marthinus, 2007, p.15 ).

The professional rugby union era is relatively new, both in Ireland and globally compared to other

professional sports. Rugby Union turned professional in 1995, heralding the end of the amateur era at

not just the international level, but also at provincial and club level (RFU website). Since then rugby

union has developed hugely both as a sport and as a global brand. Price (2007) in referencing Kell,

(2002) states that “the globalisation and professionalisation of rugby has many implications for the

experiences of players and introduces new patterns of work, which are characterised by greater

intensity, complexity, mobility and very different connections with notions of club, community and

nation”.

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2.3 PROFESSIONAL SPORTS AND RETIREMENT

The sports career, which is defined as “the multi-year sports activities of the individual aimed at high

level sports achievements and self-improvement in sport” (European Federation of Sport Psychology,

2000), is not a homogenous entity but is composed of several stages (Cecic Erpic et al, 2004, p.46).

Cecic Erpic et al (2004, p.46) state that “each stage, including sports career transition and adaptation

to post-sports life, is characterized by a set of specific demands requiring adjustment by athletes and

has therefore been comprehended as a transition”. Schlossberg and associates proposed model of

human adaptation to transition (Schlossberg, 1981; Schlossberg, Waters, & Goodman, 1995), outlines

a transition as “an event or non-event which results in a change in assumptions about oneself and the

world and thus requires a corresponding change in one’s behavior and relationships” (Schlossberg,

1981, p. 5), with Marthinus, (2007 p. 2) referencing Baillie and Danish (1992) stating that “retirement

may occur at any stage in an individual’s life and is, in reality, a point of transition from an activity in

which there has been a commitment of time, energy and role identification”.

Research suggests that there are significant consequences for the retiring athlete, which range from

the negative effects, including catastrophic emotional and social effects (Kerr and Dacyshyn, 2000

and McKenna and Thomas, 2007), to others suggesting no change (Torregrosa, Sanchez and Cruz.

2004) to positive effects (Allison and Meyer,1988). A healthy career transition has been defined by

Alfermann and Stambulova (2007, p. 714), as “successful coping with the transition and success in

life”, which Stambulova et al. (2009) going further in saying that it represents “a general feeling of

adjustment and an increase in sport and life satisfaction”. The dichotomy of this, the “retirement

crisis” is said to result according to Taylor and Ogilvie (1994) in a number of undesirable behavioural

symptoms “including psychopathology, substance abuse, occupational, family and social problems”

which was expanded upon by Stambulova (2003) to include “disorientated behaviour, increased sense

of failure, emotional discomfort and decreased self-esteem”.

Marthinus (2007, p26) referencing the work of Rosenberg (1981) states that “for a professional

athlete, retirement from sport is not a conclusion, but often a major, perhaps jarring, shift in

occupational status and mobility. Here retirement and aging are synonymous only within the context

of the sport itself, where athletic life expectancy and productive years differ dramatically from those

to which demographers, gerontologists and other social scientists commonly refer”.

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2.4 INFLUENCES AFFECTING CAREER TRANSITIONS

Marthinus (2007) comments that too often athletic transitions are portrayed as either traumatic or

liberating, rather than transitions which result in difference of adjustment, based on how each

individual perceives the transition. Werthner and Orlick (1986) and Schlossberg (1981) as referenced

by Marthinus (2007, p.4) highlight that “a multitude of behavioural patterns are associated with

athletic transitions simply because individuals bring their own perceptions of stress, personal

resources, coping strategies, and socialisation experiences to this athletic-career transition. It is a

combination of the individual, and his/her available resources, as well as the type of transition

encountered that mediates adaptive success or failure”.

Sussman’s work in relation to adjustment (1971) as referenced by Marthinus (2007, p. 6) “asserts that

perceptions about retirement will be influenced by the following types of factors:

1. Individual (e.g. motives, values, goals, problem solving skills);

2. Situational (e.g. circumstances of retirement, pre-retirement planning, retirement income);

3. Structural (e.g. social class, marital status, availability of social systems);

4. Social (e.g. family, friends, extended support);

5. Boundary constraints (e.g. societal definitions, economic cycles, employer attitudes)”.

Roberts (2010) noted that cultural differences and the existence of structured pre-retirement planning

programmes have been found to affect the transitional experiences of professional rugby union

players (Roberts, 2010). These findings are echoed in research carried out by Alfermann et al. (2004)

and Stambulova et al. (2007) across other sports which highlighted that the transition out of elite

sports is a dynamic, multidimensional, multilevel, and multifactor process in which nationality/culture

plays an important role (Stambulova, et al., 2007).

In this paper, I will detail information from the New Zealand Rugby Union Players Association

(NZRPA) on the effects of retirement amongst their members. These findings are included for

illustration purposes of the extent of issues encountered amongst other former players, noting the

limitations of applicably to the Irish context per the findings of Roberts (2010).

In looking specifically at the athletic transitions of professional rugby players, the findings of the

2011 “NZRPA Retired Players Survey” highlights the difficulties that have been faced by former

professional rugby players in New Zealand;

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• Almost one third of players said they were unprepared and struggled during their first 3

months post retirement;

• 29% felt they were not prepared for their eventual retirement;

• 27% struggled to manage the transition in their first three months out of professional rugby

citing depression, feelings of despair, lack of self-esteem and anxiety issues;

• 40% faced complications during their transition – including work, study, financial, physical

and mental;

• 60% took 6 months or longer to “gain control” post retirement;

• Those who studied and/or undertook work experience during their career had a smoother

retirement transition.

To delve into the subject on a structured basis we will look at the five influences according to Crook

and Robertson, (1991) that affect career transitions;

1. Anticipatory socialisation. This is the proactive response of preparing for retirement before

it happens (Crook and Robertson, 1991). The lack of preparation for life post sports can negatively

affect athlete’s ability to adjust, with some athlete’s not contemplating retirement during their

competitive sport because considering it, may be considered defeatist and admitting to failure

(McLaughlin, 1981). Torregrosa, Boixados, Sánchez and Cruz (2004) report “that younger athletes

and those viewing retirement as distant, tend to avoid planning prior to their retirement and that job

choice gained importance as the sporting career progressed”.

“In sport, the retirement of an elite athlete can be extremely difficult to cope with if they have not

adequately prepared or have not planned for such an event” (Price, 2007). The extent to which an

athlete has prepared for the transitioning from professional sport into an alternative working

environment is strongly linked to the issues that arise (Taylor and Ogilvie, 1998; Lavallee and

Anderson, 2000). As quoted by Cecic Erpic (2011) pre-retirement planning of post-sports life broadly

influences the quality of adaptation to life following a competitive sports career (Coakley, 1983;

Pearson and Petitaspas, 1990; Stambulova, 1994; Cecic Erpic, Wylleman and Zupancic, 2004). Blann

and Zaichkowsky, (1986) wrote that “the lack of preparation for retirement and its consequences

makes the athlete vulnerable in the retirement experience”. “The degree and quality of adaptation to

career termination and transition may depend on developmental experiences that occurred since the

inception of their athletic careers” (Taylor and Ogilvie, 1998).

Price (2007) highlights research which indicates that career development and planning for elite

athletes is largely in agreement on the various benefits it provides athletes whilst in the high

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performance phase of their athletic career (Martens & Lee, 1998; North and Lavalee, 2004,

McGillivrary, 2006). Price (2007, p. 59) states “that career development has the ability to broaden an

athlete’s self-identity, enhance perceptions of control, and develop life-skills. Danish (1993) defines

life-skills as those “skills that enable us to master the tasks necessary to succeed in our social

environment; for example learning to transfer skills from one domain of life to another, in particular

those skills learned in sport that can be applicable at home, at school, or in the workplace”.

Athletes who pre-plan find the transition less disruptive and they can develop passion for the new

challenge they have directed their energy to (Werthner and Orlick, 1986). The development of other

interests encourages athletes to maintain balance in their life (Sinclair and Orlick, 1993), though it

may be impossible for a professional athlete to totally balance sport with other areas of life, “given

that sport at the elite level requires an extreme level of commitment” (Balaque, 1999).

Hawkins and Blann (1996) and Martens and Lee (1999) referenced by Price (2007) identified that

“athletes understanding the career process is an important component of career development, and has

specific implications for athletes in terms of enhancing their awareness of alternative careers beyond

sport”. Yet despite this the findings of studies illustrate that young elite athletes are less likely to

engage in career development and planning activities than non-athletes (Blann and Zaichowsky, 1986;

Kennedy and Dimick, 1987, Murphy, Petitpas and Brewer, 1996). Vitale (2002, p.1) argues that

“professional athletes today have been hampered in planning for their future careers by the intense

demands of training, travel, performance and the ever-present prospect of physical injury”. Further to

this, as referenced by Danish et al (1993), athletes rewarded for their athletic endeavours may choose

not to seek success in academic pursuits or other career opportunities, instead engaging in “identity

foreclosure”, closing off alternative career identities due to this early commitment to their sport

without sufficient exploration of other avenues (Stevenson, 2001; Marcia, 1966). Murphy (1995)

wrote that athletes can feel left behind in terms of career development, as they are often making

education and work decisions later than their peers, as they delay decisions in relation to them until

after their sporting career is finished. Hill and Lowe (1974) argue that with the increased salaries on

offer for sporting professionals, that elite athletes may develop a false sense of security, and may give

low priority to career development and planning, while North and Lavallee (2004) reference these

elite athletes may perceive that they have significantly more time in their sport and fail to make plans

for their future. Cecic Erpic et al. (2004, p.47) outlines a relationship “between post-sports life

planning and a less difficult adaptation to post-sports life which has been empirically supported (e.g.

Stambulova, 1994; Svoboda & Vanek, 1982), yet approximately 45% of athletes (Wylleman et al.,

1993) do not think about their life after active sports involvement”.

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The lack of preparation for retirement by some professional rugby union players in Ireland, is borne

out as on the June 30th 1999, 41 Irish players were released from their contracts, of which 18 had no

plans for new careers on the 1st of July (Coughlan, 2009). Hamish McAdams of the Irish Rugby

Union Players Association (IRUPA) outlined that “the average rugby career is only about six years

and the majority of these guys are not earning big money …the facts are that these guys are going to

have to work for 30 to 40 years following a rugby career, so it is imperative that they have something

to go to afterwards” (Coughlan, 2009).

It would appear that from the findings of the 2008 IRUPA survey, that the realisation of life after

rugby is developing and that players are being more proactive in preparing for same; “that of the 150

professional rugby players in Ireland at that time, 75% have degrees/qualifications or are working

towards it” which he outlined “means that our players are amongst the most educated bunch of

professional players in rugby” (Coughlan ,2009).

Maeve Smith, (IRUPA players services advisor for Leinster), speaking to the Score.ie (2013), believes

the game of rugby is gradually coming to terms with the task of preparing players for careers after

they hang up their boots. “Players have to be realistic ….. Something we talk about with all players

and athletes is tomorrow might be the end of rugby for them. If that comes, they face a transition

period, just like everyone else who works must, at one stage or another.” She added; “Before rugby

was professional, players went back to their jobs when they retired. In the early years of

professionalism the awareness was not there, that players needed qualifications or development in

other areas of the life. That is beginning to change now.”

In 2008, an IRUPA survey conducted by BDO Simpson Xavier Consulting found that “Only 6% of

players found the experience easy, with the vast majority of players finding it difficult. Coupled with

financial and medical issues, is the psychological factor, retirement for a pro rugby player represents a

major change in lifestyle, it affects every aspect of your life – not alone are you trying to plan a new

career and experiencing a large salary drop but you are also dealing with the Hero to Zero effect.”

(IRUPA, 2008).

While we have discussed some of the growing literature on the implications of career development

and planning, which highlight improved performance, life-skills and career awareness, which can

stabilise athletes in the present and prepare them for their futures, including the development of the

identity of athletes and their preparation for athletic termination and transition, it is evident that

significant barriers exist in the engagement of athletes with same, and that anticipation of retirement

would appear to be very much a personal preference;

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Alan Quinlan (former Munster and Irish Professional Rugby Union Player) (2010, p. 243) writing in

his autobiography ; “So, I am planning for the future – I’ve got the same fears and concerns that any

professional sportsman has, but I’m not looking too far ahead”.

DJ Forbes (New Zealand Sevens Captain) comments in NZ Rugby World (2011, p. 93) that “with his

29th birthday arriving soon…he’s already working on a transition plan for when his rugby days are

over. I’m not too fussed. I went into the workforce straight after school and didn’t play rugby right

through so I’m pretty confident I’d be able to get a job if rugby came to a halt”.

Luke Andrews (former rugby union player with Wellington in New Zealand) says in NZ Rugby World

(2011, p. 97) that; “all rugby players, including myself, think that they’re bullet-proof and their

careers are going to last as long as they want it to. I was lucky that mine has but could’ve easily been

injured or got a tap on the shoulder by a coach saying I might want to consider something else next

year. If I’d been left in the lurch, my one regret would’ve been not getting enough work experience.

You’ve got to do it as soon as possible, get proactive and get some sort of qualification behind you”.

2. Identity and self-esteem. The loss of identity and diminished self-esteem are problems

associated with the transition to retirement of professional athletes, as many of them gauge their self-

worth on their athletic identity and ability (Botterill, 1981). Some researchers suggest that one of the

most important determinants of adjustment to retirement, “is the degree to which an athlete’s identity

is immersed in the sport, or self-worth is defined by sport” (Marthinus, 2007, p.10, Baillie and

Danish, 1992; Pearson and Petitpas, 1990; Taylor and Ogilvie, 1994). Webb et al, (1998) and Coakley

(1998) “argue that the danger of such strong and exclusive identification with the athlete role is that it

may result in identity crises and emotional disturbances following termination of athletic

participation” (Price, 2007, p. 147).

“Cecic´ Erpicˇ et al. (2004 p. 47) highlighted “an athlete’s commitment to sports and the consequent

reduction of investment in other social roles (e.g. student, partner, friend) often leads to the formation

of a strong athletic identity (McPherson, 1980), which can have both positive and negative

consequences for participants in sports. It has a positive influence on sports achievements (Danish,

Petitpas, and Hale, 1993; Werthner and Orlick, 1986), exercise adherence, and athletic performance

(Brewer et al., 1993). Other researchers have found evidence to suggest that individuals with strong

athletic identity risk experiencing difficulties after sports career termination (e.g. Blinde and

Greendorfer, 1985; Cecic´ Erpicˇ, 1998; Pearson and Petitpas, 1990; Werthner and Orlick, 1986)

which may also affect the duration of emotional and social adjustment to post-sports life (Grove,

Lavallee, & Gordon, 1997)”.

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Given the short term nature of professional rugby union career, the development of life skills would

appear particularly important, and given the commitment required for this athletic career, the

involvement in the sport does not necessarily assist in the development of skills in some of these areas

(Horne et al, 1999, McGillivrary et al, 2005). Petitpas et al (1997) argues athletes may struggle in life

after work for a number of reasons, the athlete who possesses effective life-skills are better able to

cope with the challenges of a career outside sport than those who lack these skills. Their argument

goes further in saying that those athletes who were successful in learning important life-skills from

their participation view themselves not just as talented athletes but also as talented people; that they

have transposed their sport success into life success.

Murphy (1995), Martens and Lee (1998), Anderson (1999) and Hickey and Kelly (2005), argue that

socio-economic status, financial dependency on the sport, perceived performance, balance of life and

post-athletic occupational potential would all be positively influence by career development. Price

(2007) also references other studies “which have found that career development and planning that

assists athletes to develop work and social skills enables them to deal more effectively with the

pressures of being elite athletes, and suffer less anxiety about being a late starter in a career outside

sport” (Brewer, Van Raalte and Linder, 1993, Danish, Petitpas and Hale, 1993, Murphy, 1995).

Stephan et al. (2003) speaking of the areas that “contribute to an athlete’s satisfaction with life, which

constitutes the basis for their subjective well-being, highlight that an elite athlete’s life style is

subordinated to sport, which becomes a way of life (Stambulova, 1994). Life style is based on

powerful commitment, both physically and emotionally (Wylleman, De Knop, Menkehorst,

Theeboom and Annerel, 1993), with daily routines and regimes of energetic discharge and physical

exercise, stimulation and efficiency (Steinacker, Lormes, Lehman and Altenburg, 1998).

With evidence suggesting physical activity and sport act as protective factors against stress,

depression and/or unsettling behaviour (risk-taking, experimental behaviours and drugs use) (Ferron

et al., 1999), elite athletes may not experience the gambit of psychological, social or physical

development stages experienced by their non-athletic peers, leaving them ill-equipped for lifestyle

changes upon retirement (Smith and McManus, 2008).

Other factors which complicate transitions include athletes who do not feel that they have achieved

their goals, particularly due to injuries or de-selection (Werthner and Orlick,1986). Consideration of

life after their retirement eases the transition, as athletes develop interests which make their athletic

identity less prominent (Blinde and Greendorfer, 1985). Athletes, who adopt a sense of

accomplishment of achieving their sporting goals, view their athletic experience as positive, and this

makes them more willing to tackle new challenges (Sinclair and Orlick, 1993; Werthner and Orlick,

22 | P a g e

1986). Ian McKinley (former Leinster player) saw his career ended at the age of 21 after suffering a

serious eye injury, stated in an interview; "That's why I was so relieved to have that one year of

playing with Joe (Schmidt) behind me at least. If I didn't do that I would have gone crazy completely

(Boyle, 2012)”.

Roberts’ (2010) research on athletic identity and life satisfaction between former professional rugby

union players from England, Wales and South Africa, found that latter enjoyed higher levels of

athletic identity both during and after their athletic career. She deduced from her research that lack of

pre-retirement planning, combined with high levels of athletic identity equate to low levels of life

satisfaction for the South African athletes.

Price (2007, p. 146 (17 players surveyed ranging in age from 19 to 22)) in his research on young elite

rugby players in both Australia and New Zealand, highlighted the importance to rugby in the

participants identities, when they were asked to rank the top three priorities in their life;

TABLE 2: PRIORITIES IN LIFE OF YOUNG ELITE RUGBY PLAYERS IN AUSTRALIA & NEW ZEALAND

PRIORITIES IN LIFE 1ST PRIORITY % 2ND PRIORITY % 3RD PRIORITY %

Rugby 59% 18% 24%

Family 24% 35% 12%

Education 6% 35% 18%

Religion 12% 0% 6%

Social life 0% 6% 29%

Friends/Girlfriend 0% 12% 0%

Career 0% 0% 6%

Price’s findings, of rugby being of most important priority of this young age group, (which is not

surprising “given that sport at the elite level requires an extreme level of commitment” (Balaque,

1999)) is even more disturbing given the link between athletic identity and transition in retirement,

and the findings from the 2011 “NZRPA Retired Players Survey” which identified the following;

• 15% experienced loss of self-esteem or confidence

• 34% experienced problems due to loss of identity/public profile

• 13% of players still consider themselves to be professional rugby players post retirement

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• 39% believe their sense of identity (who I am) has improved since retiring.

However, encouragingly the survey found that 87% of current players are undertaking some form of

meaningful career education and/or personal development outside of rugby and 90% are actively

seeking to develop a potential career outside of rugby. 78% believe that since retiring they have

developed a strong interest in things outside of rugby.

Looking at comments made by former and current rugby union professionals, some players would

appear to be acting very diligently, both pre and post retirement, with the development of appropriate

qualifications to secure employment post rugby;

Anton Oliver, who played professionally for Toulon and New Zealand and who retired at the 33.

During his career he managed to acquire degrees in Finance and Physical Education, but he concedes

his concern at a rugby world devoid of the brainy young men who once represented universities like

Oxford and Cambridge and then went on to become respected doctors, lawyers, academics, leaders in

finance and such like. " I think that the player at the end of it, although he will be richer in rugby

experience, will be the poorer as a person overall. But it was always going to happen once rugby

went professional. You are not going to get that any more All Blacks who are Rhodes scholars in the

future. My feeling is that if you are reasonably intelligent and you have got an inquiring mind, a

professional rugby life is not enough now. It's a very uncertain path because of all sorts of things like

injuries that you can't control…Because to me, the game still hasn't sorted out what it is going to do

with all the 32-year-olds that will get spewed out the other end of the system, emerging without any

qualifications or any real life experience”. (Bills, 2008).

Simon Miall who played for Harlequins and who retired at the age of 31, after five years as a

professional, felt that some of his career prospects were hampered as he “ was put off by the prospect

of having to start on the bottom rung of law or accountancy” given his age. He offers a warning to

professionals playing today, saying “you are a long times retired, so keep other things going

alongside rugby” (Edgar, 2010).

3. Personal management skills. Given their oft total commitment to support from an early age,

athletes may grow to depend on their coaches or others for decision making purposes. The sports

environment creates a lifestyle based upon commitment, discipline and routine that is designed to

shelter an athlete from external distractions (Stephan et al. 2003). Nicholi (1987,p. 1096) references

the unusual environments that some athletes evolve in stating “ in one sense, athletic development has

proceeded at the expense of emotional development”. This dependence may hamper the athlete’s

retirement transition because they are dependent on others, for such factors are personal management

(Botterill, 1981). “Studies conducted by Werthner et al. (1986) and Kerr et al. (2000) investigating

24 | P a g e

past athletes’ perceptions of retirement suggest the sports environment may lead to a poor sense of

personal control due to the management of daily routines, behaviours and decision-making by coaches

and sports associations” (Smith and McManus, 2008), with very few athletes indicating a strong sense

of control during their sport career (Werthner et al., 1986; Kerr et al.,2000).

A positive relationship with a coach can ease the transition, allowing the athlete to reach their goals

and to enjoy their athletic experiences, however, a negative relationship, which might include factors

which means that the athlete may be forced to leave the sport earlier than they expected can lead to a

difficult transition (Werthner and Orlick, 1986).

4. Social support systems. Werthner and Orlick (1986) among others highlight that the support

of family and friends can ease the degree of disruption that the transition to retirement often brings,

with Botterill (1981) stating that support from former athletes, family, and sport helps the adjustment

to athletic retirement (Baillie and Danish, 1992; Petitpas, Danish, McKelvain and Murphy, 1992;

Sinclair and Orlick, 1993). Studies by Arviko (1976), Hearle (1975), Mihovilovic (1968) ,Werthner

and Orlick (1986), Gorbett (1985) and Fortunato (1996) indicate according to Marthinus (2007, p.

92), “athletes with a broad-based social identity that includes family, friends, educational, and

occupational components demonstrated better adaptation following retirement”. As often a large

majority of the friends and acquaintances are found in the sport environment and their social activities

revolve around same (Botterill, 1990; Svoboda and Vanek, 1982), retired athletes find themselves

avoided by current players or “socially dead”, a concept used by Rosenberg (1981) and Lerch (1982).

This isolation might be exacerbated by the fact that “training and playing demands limit conventional

social connections, and intense bonding takes place” (Light and Kirk, 2001, p. 85). (The 2011

“NZRPA Retired Players Survey” found that 70% miss the camaraderie of professional rugby). This

avoidance behaviour may be adopted by athletes who are still active to “protect themselves from

admitting the uncertainty of their own careers” Marthinus (2007, p. 93). The loss of a support system

of friends, who continue on in the sport, is said to negatively impact on the transition (Mihovilovic,

1968).

Additionally to this Hill and Lowe (1974) comment “that professional sports teams are unlikely to feel

any obligation to prepare their athletes for the inevitable metathesis” that retirement will bring which

exacerbates the issue of retirement transition. Crook and Robertson (1991) highlight that support

systems, if available, often just help with employment upon retirement, and often fail to provide

emotional support.

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The 2011 “NZRPA Retired Players Survey” findings in relation to transition support were;

• 83% said family and friends was most crucial;

• Approximately 50% felt that they were not well supported during their initial retirement with

29% finding it difficult to talk to people about their transition;

• Only 19% of players felt well-supported during their transition – players were hesitant in

asking for help and assistance was not as accessible as it is now.

Eoin O'Malley (Leinster and Irish A professional rugby union player) who was forced to announce his

retirement from the game due to a long term knee injury. Commenting at the time to Leinster Rugby

(2013) in relation to the support that he had received he says; “It is obviously an incredibly tough

reality that I am still trying to come to terms with,” ….“After exhausting all options I am devastated

to be retiring from the game. But I am so fortunate to have such a great support base. I would like to

say a very special thank you to my family, girlfriend, friends and Leinster team-mates who have been

so supportive -–especially over the last few months”.

5. Voluntary versus involuntary retirement. Coakley (1983) comments that voluntary

retirement, as defined by Kerr and Dacyshyn (2006), as retirement when an athlete has another

choice of action, can lead to a positive transition as it may be considered part of normal human

development. Research illustrates that adaptation to retirement is dependent, in part, on the nature and

quality of the sport experiences (Kerr and Dacyshyn ,2006). With involuntary transition, athletes find

themselves less prepared and more resistant to retirement, than those who retire voluntarily

(McPherson, 1980). Retirement where the athlete has no control over their retirement decision,

because of age, injury (Werthner and Orlick, 1986), de-selection, conflict with coaches and

management (Kerr and Dacyshyn, 2000; Werthner and Orlick, 1986, Allison and Meyer,1988; Baillie,

1993; Cecic-Erpic, 2004), or for family reasons, appear problematic to retirement transition

(Mihovilovic, 1968).

Age : Marthinus (2007, p36) referencing the work of Khan (1972), Kramer (1969), Mihovilovic

(1968), Weinberg and Arond (1952) and Svodoba and Vanek (1982) states that “age, or more

specifically, the decline in performance due to advancing age, is typically considered to be a primary

cause of retirement”. The 2011 “NZRPA Retired Players Survey” found that the average age of

retirement for players sampled in their survey was 32, with an average career span of 9 years. The

survey indicates that nearly half of the players had an element of choice in regards to retirement, with

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about half (48% of players retirement was unexpected) having the decision forced on them through a

combination of physical (body can’t cope), medical (injury) or other environmental issues (non-

selection).

Information on the length of the professional career of the current professional Irish rugby union

players is not readily available, however in, appendix 3, I have attempted to highlight the current age

demographic for both the professional Irish and Munster teams. A summary of the results highlight

that players over 30 years of age, account for only 22% of the Irish senior team squad and only 17%

of the Munster 1st XV squad.

TABLE 3: AGE DEMOGRAPHIC OF PROFESSIONAL RUGBY TEAMS IN IRELAND

NO. OF

PLAYERS

OLDEST

PLAYER

AGE

YOUNGEST

PLAYER

AGE

AVERAGE

PLAYER

AGE

MODE % UNDER

27 YEARS

OF AGE

% OVER

30 YEARS

OF AGE

Ireland Senior Team

2012 -2013

50 34 20 28 28 46% 22%

Munster 1st XV

Squad 2013-2014

41 34 21 26 26 65.85% 17.07%

Munster A Squad

2012 - 2013

17 31 19 22 24

Ireland Under 20

squad 2012 – 2013

23 20 19 19 20

Munster Academy

2013 - 2014

10 20 18 19 20

Considering that according to IRUPA (2008) the “average rugby career is only about six years”, and

with players committing to rugby in a very serious manner from a young age, such as those chosen for

the Munster “A” squad (average age of 22) and the Irish Under 20 and the Munster Academy,

(average age of 19), the worry has to be what will become of these players should the average career

statistics run true?

Price (2007, p. 132) in his research on young elite rugby players in both Australia and New Zealand

(25 players surveyed ranging in age from 19 to 22) found that while they expected their future

27 | P a g e

professional rugby careers to last in the majority of cases (53%) for the next seven to ten years,

statements from “management and coaches suggested that in fact the majority of players will play

professional rugby for only four seasons or less, a figure in stark contrast to the 71% of players who

indicated they would play elite rugby for between seven and fifteen years”.

The psychological implications of ageing in sport are said to include;

• A decrease in motivation for training and competing (Werthner and Orlic, 1986);

• A change in values and priorities (Cecic-Erpic, 1998, 2000; Svoboda and Vanek, 1982);

• A decline in self confidence in related social activities (Sinclair and Orlick, 1993);

• A loss of status in the sports environment (Sinclair and Orlick, 1993).

Former All Black coach John Mitchell, highlighted a distinguishing feature between the work of a

professional athlete and other types of work, is that age often determines career length for a

professional athlete, when he commented that with “talent being identified earlier and the nature of

the elite game requiring athleticism, power and strength, international rugby careers will start earlier

and finish earlier, beginning at 19 or 20 and finishing at 26 or 27” (Thomas, 2003).

John Hayes (former Munster and Irish Professional Rugby Union Player) (2012, p. 253) in writing in

his autobiography states; “I had just turned thirty-eight. I couldn’t summon up the same sort of

hunger anymore….The level of preparation was increasing every year. Times were changing; the

game doesn’t stand still, and I was starting to struggle to keep up”.

Injury : Retirement due to career ending injuries, which can happen at any age is said to according to

Elkin (1981) and Rotella and Heyman (1986) “ to possibly cause athletes to experience identity crises,

social withdrawal, fear, anxiety, and loss of self-esteem”.

Rugby union is a high injury sport, or to quote Francois Pienaar (former South African Captain).

“Rugby’s not a contact sport anymore. Dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport”, which

sums up the physical nature of the sport which belies the injury statistics. Amongst professional rugby

union players, the risk is heightened with findings by Bathgate et al., (2002) highlighting in Australia

a “57% increase in injuries, comparing pre- and post-professionalism (from 47 injuries per 1000 hours

to 72 injuries per 1000 hours)” which parallels the findings of a Scottish study by Garraway et al.

(2000). “For comparison, the rates in field hockey, basketball, and netball are respectively (15.2, 15.1

and 12.1 per 1000 hours” (Stevenson et al.,2002, as quoted by McKenna and Thomas, 2007, p. 21).

As referenced by McKenna and Thomas (2007), “tolerance of these injury rates, may stem from

attitudes which may include respect for authority, club loyalty, and values of “cultural capital” such as

“hegemonic masculinity” (Light and Kirk, 2000), stoicism and being a “real-man”, by tolerating

28 | P a g e

hardship without complaint” (Howe, 2001). The technical ability of players has increased

immeasurably, coupled with the demand for increased levels of fitness and physical and mental

robustness. Recent studies have concluded that the higher the standard of rugby, the higher the

chances of an injury occurring (Traylor). Reasons for this include; longer playing seasons, higher

levels of competitiveness, increased intensity in training techniques and the fact that it is a full time

job so they spend most of their time trying to develop into better players, physically and mentally

(Traylor).

The most recent figures available from the English Rugby Football Union (R.F.U. ) are detailed in a

2013 report carried out by the English Professional Rugby Injury Surveillance Project Steering Group

on behalf of The Rugby Football Union and Premier Rugby Ltd. which presents the high level

findings from the 2011-12 season in relation to injuries, and compares them with the results from the

8 previous Injury and Training surveillance seasons (2002-03, 2003-04, 2005-06, 2006-07, 2007-08,

2008-09, 2009-10 and 2010-11). This report found that:

• “The overall risk (incidence and day’s absence) of match and training injury in Aviva

Premiership Rugby remained stable during the 2011-12 season and was within the ‘normal

range’ of season by season variation seen since the study began in 2002.

• Whilst the incidence or likelihood of sustaining a match injury reduced by 12% (94→82

injuries per 1,000 hours) compared to 2010-11, this was counterbalanced by an increase in

average match injury severity from 21 to 27 days, although this increase was still within the

range attributable to season by season variation. The increase in average severity was largely

as a result of an increase in the number of injuries resulting in 3-6 months out of the game.

This figure is an increase on the findings of Bathgate et al. (2002) as discussed previously.

• 323 training injuries were reported. Therefore, one third of all reported injuries are occurring

in a potentially controllable environment”.

More worryingly would appear to be the statistics in relation to the retirements caused by injuries. The

2013 report from English Professional Rugby Injury Surveillance Project Steering Group, found that

six players retired (out of 574 Aviva Premiership First Team squad members) in the 2011-2012

season as result of injuries sustained (either through first team competitive matches, training or that

were cumulative) that did not resolve during the season. (Note this does not include the number of

retirements as a result of injury from which a player had been deemed to have returned to full fitness

before retirement, and thus this figure does not fully reflect the total number of players who retired

due to injury). This brought the number of retirements since the 2002-03 season to 33 based on the

already mentioned criteria. Alarmingly the RPA (Rugby Players Association) Rugby Director David

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Barnes says of the forthcoming 2013/2014 English rugby domestic league season "it is a grave

concern to us…. that Rory becomes the 7th player to be forced to retire this season before the Aviva

Premiership season has even got underway. Following on from 22 forced retirements last season

(2012/2013), the highest number recorded, the RPA will be working with the players, Premiership

Rugby and the RFU to ensure that player welfare is the key focus for the game (ESPN, 2013)."

The issue of player welfare and preparation for life after sport, as increased in significance within the

world of sport, and particularly in rugby, and is now widely reported upon in the popular press, as the

popularity of the game grows in the wake of professionalism, and as its players take on the role of

“media-athletes” (Torregrosa et al., 2004); “Eoin O'Malley is the latest to have his dream taken from

him. The Leinster star was forced to announce his retirement last week at just 25 years of age with a

knee injury. He joins an unfortunate group. Players such as Ian Dowling (at 28), Denis Leamy (30),

Darragh Hurley (26) and Shane Horgan (33) have all had their careers brought to a premature end

because of serious injury” Conor George in the Irish Independent (27th August 2013).

On the 20th August 2013, at 25 years of age, Eoin O'Malley (Leinster and Irish A professional rugby

union player) was forced to announce his retirement from the game due to a long term knee injury.

Commenting at the time, to Leinster Rugby (2013) he says; "It is obviously an incredibly tough reality

that I am still trying to come to terms with….At the age of 25, it is surreal to be reflecting on your

career, especially when I hoped there were many more years ahead for me.” He had only turned

professional in 2009 for Leinster.

Ian McKinley (former Leinster player) saw his career ended at the age of 21 after suffering a serious

eye injury. Speaking in 2012 to the Donnacha Boyle of the Irish Independent he says of attempting to

return to rugby;"I weighed the pros and cons up with my dad. The pros were fame, for want of a better

word, and playing the sport you love. I didn't care about the money. The cons were, well, your whole

life”. And in closing remarked when asked, “was there life after rugby?”; “"There was life during it."

George (2013) highlights that as rugby has matured from its early days of professionalism, so too has

the cognisance of the governing bodies to the issues surrounding the transition of players into

retirement from the game, and that progress has been made in dealing with same, through IRUPA

which have “player advocates employed in the four provinces to liaise with the players and help the

likes of ….(injured players) and even those retiring on their own terms, to make the transition into the

'real world' after their careers come to an end”.

This progress is probably highlighted best by examining the comments of John O’Neill, who played

with Munster, until he was forced to retire in 2003 at the age of 29. At the time of his retirement he

commented to Munster Rugby (2003), “It goes without saying that I am pretty dejected about having

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to give up playing rugby. I thought I would have gotten a few more years out of a job I really enjoyed.

But in the end the decision was made for me and now it's a question of getting on with it. ….The

priority now for me is to get myself sorted out work-wise with a view to the future. As I said I thought

up to very recently that I would be involved in rugby for a few years to come but now I have to

readjust my thinking and think of another career.” In an interview with Conor George (2013) he

outlines how this transition unfolded; there was no contingency plan in place, no advisor on what to

do next, no support network. "I had to get a job. We had nothing in place. I thought I had another

four or five years of playing but then we had no systems in place, certainly not what the guys have

now. …It was a shake of the hand, your P45 and out the gate. There's no bitterness, absolutely none.

Back then, neither the provincial sides nor the national team were set up to cater for retiring players.

They had nothing in place….It was trial and error with us…... The generation before us had proper

jobs so it wasn't as much of a wrench. In my case I was lost. I wasn't set up for it."

De-selection : Svoboda and Vanek (1982) recorded that “de-selection is one of the harshest processes

that occur at every level of competitive sport”. Competitive sport is according to Ogilvie and Howe

(1982), “unlike other areas of life in which people may continue to function regardless of level of

competence, and relies on the Darwinian philosophy of “survival of the fittest”.

Alan Quinlan (former Munster and Irish Professional Rugby Union Player) (2010, p. 243) outlines

the dispensability of the modern sportsperson in the professional era ; “I’d like to stay forever as a

player. But that cannot be. Like products on a supermarket shelf, professional sportsmen are a

perishable commodity and my rugby best-before-date is getting closer and closer”.

Voluntary : The perception of control over an athlete’s retirement, does according to Marthinus

(2007, p41) referencing the work of Bandura (1997) aid “mental health and successfully

development, and also is strongly correlated to heightened feeling of self-efficacy, which plays a key

role in behaviour change and adjustment”. Research illustrates that adaptation to retirement is

dependent, in part, on the nature and quality of the sport experiences (Kerr and Dacyshyn ,2006).

With involuntary transition, athletes find themselves less prepared and more resistant to retirement,

than those who retire voluntarily (McPherson, 1980). Some researchers such as Coakley (1983),

Blinde and Greendorfer (1985) and Greendorfer and Blinde (1985) have found that retiring athletes

may actually experience liberation from the pressures and the punishing time commitment of sport.

Marthinus (2007, p41) references Sinclair and Orlick (1993) in stating that “the three most important

reasons for athletes selected for deciding to retire were;

1. They were tired of the lifestyle and decided that it was time to move on;

2. They had achieved their goals;

3. They had difficulties with the coaching staff.”

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Werthner and Orlick (1986) highlight that athletes “may seek new challenges and go their own way”,

with Greendorfer and Blinde (1985) finding that “they may look for other sources of satisfaction in

other areas of life, or may even have a change in values”.

John Hayes (former Munster and Irish Professional Rugby Union Player) (2012) in writing in his

autobiography states; “It was nice of him to ask, but my mind was made up. I was ready to let go now.

It was settled in my head. My career was over. It had reached its natural, organic end. There wasn’t a

tiny part of me that was tempted to hang on. ”(p.253)…. “Between the farm and the family I’m

looking forward to a long and contented life. I was steeped to get out of the game without any injuries

that could affect the quality of your life in later years” (p.258).

Sean Brophy who played for Leinster in 2004, spoke about his voluntary retirement. Having decided

at the age of 23 to pass up an opportunity to play for Connacht, he decided to study for his masters on

the basis that “pro rugby for me was looking in quite a narrow way, it can be monotonous and hard

work. I need something more than just sport for an income. I’m just glad it worked out”. (Drennan,

2013).

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2.5 DIFFICULTIES EXPERIENCED BY RETIRED PROFESSIONAL RUGBY

UNION PLAYERS

“The quality of the sports career transition and the adaptation to post-sports life thus depends upon

athletic and non-athletic factors. Their influence can result in a successful, relatively smooth

transition, or in more or less intense difficulties at the psychological, physical, psychosocial, and/or

occupational level” (Cecic´ Erpicˇ, Wylleman and Zupancic,2004, p.48, Wylleman, Lavallee and

Alfermann, 1999).

With retirement, the role transition of athletes to a new career, does according to Drahota and Eitzen

(1998) present a challenge, given that the athlete’s lose the primary source of their identities, coupled

with the loss of financial rewards, hero status amongst fans, media attention, social status and other

extrinsic and intrinsic rewards (Crook and Robertson, 1991; Sinclair and Orlick, 1993).

Omar Hassanein, CEO of IRUPA, and former professional rugby player in Australia, Japan, France

and Italy, who had to retire because of injury, states in an interview with George (2013) talking about

his own transition; "You experience a loss of identity,…. It's a rough transition and elite athletes at

this level are very susceptible to mental and psychological issues because of the heights and depths of

their careers and experiences”.

Emmet Byrne (retired Leinster player) speaking to Joe.ie (2012) outlined that difficulties in transition

into retirement appear commonly amongst former players in Ireland; “I haven’t found anyone within

my close circle of friends, who are professional rugby players, who haven’t struggled in some way or

form once they retired.”

Difficulties recorded on the psychological level include;

• Identity crisis - (e.g. Baillie and Danish, 1992; Crook and Robertson, 1991; Pearson and

Petitpas, 1990),

• loss of self-worth (e.g. Cecic´Erpicˇ, 1998; Wylleman et al., 1993),

• decrease of self-esteem (Werthner and Orlick, 1986),

• decline of life satisfaction (Cecic´ Erpicˇ, 1998; Werthner and Orlick, 1986),

• emotional problems (e.g. Alfermann and Gross, 1997; Cecic´ Erpicˇ, 1998; Werthner and

Orlick, 1986),

• feelings of unaccomplished athletic goals (Cecic´ Erpicˇ, 1998; Werthner and Orlick, 1986),

• and alcohol and drug abuse (Mihovilovic, 1968, Hill and Lowe, 1974).

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The 2011 “NZRPA Retired Players Survey” highlighted that in relation to physiological and

emotional issues;

• 74% said they coped well with retirement

• 26% cannot say they coped well.

• 35% of retired players experienced depression or feelings of despair – 43% of players who

retire due to injury cited depression or feelings of despair;

• 30% experienced high levels of anxiety and stress;

• 23% experiences alcohol or substance abuse;20% experienced relationship issues;

• 13% experienced aggression issues.

Roberts’ (2010) research between former professional rugby union players from England, Wales and

South Africa found the following in relating to emotions and difficulties; that uncertainty

characterised the transitional period for former English rugby union players; while former South

African players reacted with more anxiety to same. South African players also showed a higher

likelihood to have difficulties in transition. She found that coping mechanism differed according to

nationality, with former English players more prevalent at coming up with strategies and plans,

expressing negative feelings and talking to other people concerning issues. The former Welsh players

were more vocal as a method of “letting unpleasant feelings escape”, while the South African players

were slightly more inclined to refuse to believe in retirement.

Physical difficulties recorded include;

• injuries and health problems (e.g. Svoboda and Vanek, 1982; Werthner and Orlick, 1986),

• problems with detraining (e.g. Cecic´ Erpicˇ, 1998; Wylleman et al., 1993),

• and dietary problems (e.g. Cecic´ Erpicˇ, 1998; Svoboda & Vanek, 1982).

The 2008 IRUPA survey found that “41% of players retired from rugby directly as a result of injury

out of which 72% are in regular pain or discomfort as a result of injuries sustained during their

playing career. Nearly half of players can no longer play rugby of any kind”. Other statistics revealed

by IRUPA include that “30% of players forced out of the game, and claiming insurance from the

injuries that curtailed their career, are under the age of 30” (thescore.ie, 2013).

The 2011 “NZRPA Retired Players Survey” found in relation to medical issues that;

• Players typically averaged 14 major injuries (out for 1 month of more or hospitalised for 1

night or more) during their career.

• Average career was 9 years, which equals 1.5 major injuries per player per year.

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• 8% sustained an injury that put them out for a year or more, 33% for 6 months or more and

65% 3 months of more.

• 37% of players are suffering major medical problems post rugby career while 51% believe

that injuries suffered during their career have impacted negatively on their current health and

well-being.

• 67% are worried about the implications that injuries sustained will have later in life.

• Average 2.5 medical issues per player post rugby.

The 2011 “NZRPA Retired Players Survey” finding in relation to health issues was;

• 58% of players retired as a result of injury or wear and tear;

• For 30%, one major injury directly resulted in their retirement;

• For 12%, a combination of injuries resulted in their retirement;

• 16% stated that “wear and tear” resulted in retirement.

Further findings from the 2011 survey on medical welfare in the comparing past players with current

players, highlights that while players may still take to the pitch injured under some outside influence

there has been a notable reduction in same;

TABLE 4: FINDINGS ON MEDICAL WELFARE (NZRPA RETIRED PLAYERS SURVEY 2011)

PAST PLAYERS CURRENT PLAYERS (2009 NZRPA SURVEY)

68% felt pressurised to play while injured 10% have been pressured to stay on the field after

a concussion/injury

70% felt pressured to play before fully recovering

from injury

18% have been pressured to play before fully

recovering from injury

52% felt pressured to stay on the field after being

injured

73% hid an injury from medical staff in order to

play

20% have not always told the medical staff about

concussions

3% felt pressured to take performance enhancing

drugs

8% have felt pressure to take performance

enhancing drugs.

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Difficulties recorded on the psychosocial level include;

• social and cultural loneliness (Botterill, 1988),

• deficiency of social contacts (Cecic´ Erpicˇ, 1998; Danish et al., 1993),

• emotional and psychosocial breakdowns (Hearle, 1975; McPherson, 1980, Mihovilovic,

1968)

• and problems with building new relationships outside of sports (Cecic´ Erpicˇ, 1998;

Mihovilovic, 1968).

Difficulties recorded on the occupational level include;

• lack of an occupational career (Cecic´ Erpicˇ, 1998),

• lack of professional qualification (e.g. Cecic´Erpicˇ, 1998; Wylleman et al., 1993),

• less suitable professional career choices (Wylleman et al.,1993),

• And a decline in financial income (e.g. Cecic´ Erpicˇ, 1998; Werthner and Orlick, 1986;

Wylleman et al., 1993).

Garraway et al, (2000) comments that, in rugby, the worker has a relatively short productive work

life, and is prone to serious injury, with Horne et al, 1999, stating that the chance of maintaining or

improving the level of income after retirement from sports is unlikely for many.

The 2008 IRUPA survey found that professionals; “experience a significant drop in earnings on

retirement. The results show that even two years after retirement most players struggle to achieve the

same salary. 9 out of 10 player’s salaries decreased in the first two years after retirement and of those

players earning up to €100,000 during their career, only 1 in 4 were able to maintain this level on

retirement”.

The 2011 “NZRPA Retired Players Survey” found that since retirement;

• 46% of players had been unemployed at some stage since retiring – of which 82% were

unemployed for a period of 3 months or longer;

• 93% are currently employed;

• 47% believed playing professional rugby inhibited their ability to work/study while 53%

would have liked more opportunities to work or study.

• 87% of current players are undertaking some form of meaningful career education and/or

personal development outside of rugby and 90% are actively seeking to develop a potential

career outside of rugby.

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• 50% of all players will earn less than $60k in their first 2 years after retirement (28% are still

earning less than $60k.

TABLE 5: SALARY FINDINGS OF RETIRED RUGBY PLAYERS IN NEW ZEALAND (NZRPA RETIRED PLAYERS SURVEY 2011)

FINAL 2 YEARS PLAYING FIRST 2 YEARS AFTER PLAYING

$200k + / year 48% 7%

$100k+/year 79% 24%

$60k+/year 93% 56%

In relation to personal networks and work experience the survey found;

• 60% said they attained their job through personal networks;

• 28% worked at their current job before or during their rugby career;

• 33% of players ended up working in a rugby related environment;

• 24% found work in a professional services (tertiary education required);

• 15% own a business.

The survey also found that those who studied and/or undertook work experience during their career

had a smoother retirement transition with 88% of players agreeing that having and education or trade

is an important part of life after professional rugby;

• 42% said that the qualifications they obtained before or during their rugby career helped them

gain employment on retirement;

• 40% of past players had a degree before becoming professional rugby players and 29% had a

trade or workplace qualification;

• 52% of players actively studied during their rugby career;

• Only 25% of past players enrolled in an educational institution following their retirement but

47% would like the opportunity now that they have retired.

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2.6 LOCATING THE PROBLEM WITHIN THE LITERATURE

In the last forty years, research into the career development of talented and elite athletes has evolved

into a growing topic of study among the sport psychology community (Wylleman, Lavallee, &

Theeboom, 2004). The majority of both theoretical and applied sport psychology literature

concentrates on elite competitive sport and means to help athletes achieve top level goals, however,

with the development of sports sciences, due no doubt to the increased commercialisation of

professional sports, there has been a growing interest in conceptualising the sports career termination

process (Torregrosa et al., 2004).

Studies in relation to various aspects of this process include;

• Adaption to the difficulties and trauma associated with career termination -Mihovilovic, 1968;

Ogilvee and Howe, 1986; Taylor and Ogilvie, 1994; Werthner and Orlick, 1986).

• Retirement from competitive sport being a life event that influences former athlete’s well-being

and development – Alfermann and Gross, 1997, Greendorfer and Blinde, 1985; Wylleman, De

Knop, Menkehorst, Theeboom and Annarel, 1993.

Difficulties exist in the research to date which is said to stem from “a divergence between conceptual

and empirical matters” (Marthinus, 2007, p.2).

The conceptual formulations, such as Sussman’s Analytical Model for the Sociological Study of

Retirement, 1972 and Schlossberg’s Model of Human Adaptation to Transition, 1981, are drawn

externally to the world of sport and applied to the sports area without the consideration of findings

already reported in sport literature on retirement (Taylor & Ogilvie, 1994).

The empirical research in the area per Marthinus (2007, p. 3) in quoting Sinclair and Orlick, (2003),

examines the “dynamics of athletic transition and is grounded in crisis orientation”. This is a portrayal

of the post retirement life of an athlete as” traumatic and negative, as well as dysfunctional in terms of

psychological disorders” (Marthinus, 2007, p. 3). Other empirical research on the subject suggests that

there is evidence of relief amongst retiring athletes from the pressures and the extreme time

commitment of sport (Coakley, 1983; Blinde and Greendorfer, 1985;Greendorfer and Blinde, 1985).

Another notable limitation concerns the lack of effective interventions addressing the transitional

needs of athletes before, during and after termination (Smith & McManus 2008). While Schlossberg’s

Model considers characteristics of the individual, the transition and the pre and post retirement

environments in determining adaptation success (Lavallee & Wylleman 2000, Schlossberg 1981,

1984), and has progressed from identifying the causes and consequences of sports retirement to

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investigating factors influencing the quality of career transitions and strategies preparing athletes for

sport (Anderson & Morris 2000, Smith & McManus 2008) it fails to still identify effective

interventions.

Aside from identifying trends in the factors influencing a positive or negative retirement experience,

limited exploration has been directed towards the broader psychological, social and physical

adjustments encountered by elite athlete’s upon career termination (Smith & McManus 2008). Greater

emphasis should be directed towards these areas in order to ensure a positive adaptation into post-

sports life.

This report will attempt to draw on the previous theoretical work both within and outside of sport,

coupled with both current research in the area and the findings of the research allied to this report, to

study the adaptations of professional rugby union players to retirement from their sport.

Another limitation in the literature is that the concept of “athletic retirement has been disregarded” to

an extent “because this transitional event is equated with the occupational retirement of older adults,

and there is a misconception that only a small number of individuals who compete in elite and

professional sport are likely to be affected by this transition” (Baillie and Danish, 1992). In this paper

we will seek to highlight some of the key differences that exist between the retirement of professional

athletes and the occupational retirement of older adults, which include;

• Athletes finishing their careers at a relatively young age (Baillie, 1983; Blinde and Greendorfer,

1985), often at the approximate age when their peers “are often beginning careers in other non-

sporting domains, getting married, and having children. These comparative situations may add to

the already stressful feelings inherent in athletic retirement” (McKnight et al. 2009).

• That the athlete’s identities are disrupted in their retirement transition (Pearson and Petitpas,

1990). The commitment of athlete’s to their sport from an early age may create a situation where

they may not develop interests in other areas. This “foreclosed identity” (Brewer, Van Raalte and

Linder, 1993) which may disrupt their “normal developmental events such as identity

development”.

Another significant issue, has been alluded to previously, is the relative youth of the game of

professional rugby union. Given that the sport has only adopted a professional status since 1995, the

amount of writing in relation to effects of retirement upon its players is limited. In Ireland, IRUPA

commissioned a report on the effects of retirement amongst players in 2008; however, the findings of

this report are confidential. This report will attempt to tackle the void in the current literature that

these presents.

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2.7 RESEARCH OBJECTIVES

The main objectives of this report are to;

• Detail a quantitative analysis of the five influences according to Crook and Robertson, (1991)

that affect career transitions;

1. Anticipatory socialisation;

2. Identity and self-esteem;

3. Personal management skills;

4. Social support systems; and

5. Voluntary versus involuntary retirement; and

• Outline the effects on the retired athletes on an psychological, physical, psychosocial and

occupational level; and

• Highlight possible issues that may be make future retirement transitions more difficult for

current players.

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CHAPTER THREE – METHODOLOGY

The purpose of this chapter is to outline the steps taken in the collection of data with enough detail

that the study could be replicated. It will also provide concise justification for the research strategy

taken.

The hypotheses upon which this research is based, is drawn from the research of (Cecic Erpic, 2000),

“that an involuntary and abrupt sport career termination, a lower evaluation of sports achievement, the

lack of post-sports life planning, and a high athletic identity while playing sports, would lead to a

more difficult sport career termination process” (Marthinus, 2007, p.1138).

This current study would appear to be the first academic research of its kind in Ireland on the subject

matter, which is probably due to the relative youth of professionalism in the sport of rugby union, the

small number of people who fit the demographic of “retired professional rugby union players in

Ireland”, and the minority of retired professional athletes from any sport in Ireland, due to the

inability of most sports to sustain full time professional athletes domestically. The research that has

been commissioned by the Irish Rugby Union Players Association (IRUPA) is confidential in nature,

and the result findings that have been made public are scant in detail. The most up to date academic

information on the effects of retirement of professional rugby players would appear to be the work of

Claire-Marie Roberts of the University of Worcester, who kindly offered me access to her two most

recent presentations of the subject, (her 2008 presentation for the University of Glamorgan Doctoral

Conference “An in-depth appraisal of transitions in rugby union”, and her presentation at the 26th

Annual Conference of the Applied Association of Sport Psychology, Providence, Rhode Island, , “ A

cross-cultural evaluation of rugby union transitions”). Miss Roberts has expressed an interest in the

examining the findings of this paper.

The initial hope for this project was to apply quantitative and qualitative approaches to extrapolate the

information required to answer the research question.

The quantitative approach was to be based on the use of the Sports Career Termination Questionnaire

II (SCTQ II). The SCTQ II assesses characteristics of the retirement from professional sports process,

evaluating the characteristics of an active sports career, sport career termination, transition to post-

sport life, and adaptation to post-sport life. The focus of this element of the report was to explore the

experiences of the retired professional rugby union players as they transitioned to retirement. This

questionnaire has been applied in previous research, and may have provided meaningful comparisons

to the effects felt by retired athletes from other sports and also from different nationalities and

cultures. Dr. Cecic Erpic, the author and copyright owner of the SCTQ II questionnaire gave written

consent for the use of the questionnaire on the 10th May 2012.

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It was hoped that through endorsement by IRUPA, that the questionnaire would be circulated to its

members, to achieve a sufficient sample size to draw valid and reliable results, and that interviews (to

be discussed later) with retired players might be arranged, however this endorsement was not

achieved.

Having failed to win an endorsement from IRUPA, and given that there was no available database of

retired professional rugby union players available, I took the decision to abandon the quantitative

aspect of my research, as it became apparent that I would not establish a sufficient sample size to

derive statistical analysis from. The only avenue left to pursue research on the subject was through

interviews with retired professional players who I could access through friends and acquaintances,

and indeed through social media in one example. This narrowed the sample to retired professional

rugby union players who played for Munster, given that through my personal connections these were

the individuals I would most likely gain access to. While all of the sample had also played

professionally for Ireland, given the current set-up of professionally rugby in Ireland, where players

are contracted to either clubs or provincially, and then offered central contracts to play for Ireland, it

is not possible to generalise the findings to an Irish context, as the individuals clubs or provinces may

instigate different approaches towards the transition of players in retirement, and these approaches

may impact on the effects of retirement on the individuals involved, as per the findings of Roberts

(2010).

Despite the lack of quantitative data, the data derived from the interviews undertaken, was considered

to be sufficient, as interviewing has been found to be one of the most effective techniques for gaining

insight into another person’s experiences (Kvale 1983). As the purpose of this research was to delve

into the experiences of former professional rugby union players on their transition into retirement, the

use of the data derived from the interviews appeared to be a legitimate research method, which

allowed for the enrichment and deepening of the body of knowledge on this matter, but not to

generalise or make predictions (Strean, 1998). Additional qualitative research within sports

psychology is gaining increased recognition, as researchers realise the potential benefits of same

(Strean, 1998).

“The interview consisted of a series of planned questions organised into a number of interrelated

sections (Marthinus, 2007);

• Beginning the interview. Introductory remarks and demographics.

• Initiation (training) stage.

• Maturity (performance) stage.

• Anticipation (realisation of retirement) stage.

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• Interview conclusion.

• Evaluation and summary”.

Each participant was presented with an identical sequence of open-ended questions (Kvale, 1996)

which were needed to stimulate an appropriate depth of disclosure. This is to ensure that responses

from all interviewees will be equal in value in accordance with recommendations of Scanlan, Stein &

Ravizza (1991). Should the interviewee not understand the question when asked, a clarification

process was used to have the athlete repeat and clarify the idea mentioned. In addition, an elaboration

process was used in the interview in order to fully understand what the interviewees have said, and to

elicit further ideas. These predetermined general probes will be utilised to minimise bias by ensuring

that all questions are answered in a similar manner. I personally interviewed all six interviewees to

maximise consistency. No inducements were offered to the interviewees, and they were consistently

reminded that they may withdraw at any stage and that their participation is voluntary.

The questions are drawn from the 2007 research from Marthinus, “Psychological effects of retirement

in elite athletes” and are detailed in appendix 1.

The interviewees were given a brief detail of what the interview will entail, and how their data will be

recorded and analysed. Interviews varied in duration from twenty five minutes to 1 hour and ten

minutes, depending on the openness of the individuals involved to speak on the various subjects. Five

of the interviews were carried out face to face, while one was carried out over the phone, due to work

commitments in that individuals life, however several studies have shown that self-disclosure and

interview responses do not vary between telephone and face to face interviews (Bermack, 1989).

Prior, to the interview, all participants were reminded that the process is voluntarily, and that they

may withdraw at any stage. They were also reminded that they can stop the interview at any stage and

remove their data at any stage up to final submission. They confidential nature of the interview was

also revisited at this time.

The interviews were voice-recorded, and transcribed immediately by me verbatim. This analysis of

one interview before beginning any further one, increased my familiarity with the data, and allowed

me to probe relevant themes in subsequent interviews. This allowed me to test emerging ideas with

the interviewees, what qualitative theorists have referred to as “participant checking” (Lincoln &

Guba, 1985, Rose & Jevne, 1983).

All of the participants in the interviews were asked to complete the questionnaire SCTQ II, of which

five of the six returned same. One other retired professional rugby union player also completed the

questionnaire, though it did not prove possible to interview him for the project. While we did have

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complete representation from the target population with the questionnaires, which is deemed crucial

for inferences to the whole target population, the insufficient sample size, 6 out of 140 estimated

(there were approximately 140 retired professional rugby union players in Ireland in 2011, according

to Jackman (2011)) is a validity limiting factor and as such no quantitative analysis can be carried out

on same (Slavec and Dmovsek, 2012). These questionnaires will be drawn upon, to not only provide

demographic information on the participants, but to add to, and confirm the open-ended qualitative

data gathered. Trends which become apparent from analysis of the questionnaires are used to

compliment the findings of the qualitative element of the research.

Given the personal nature of this topic, confidentiality is the main ethical issue. With all of the

participants having a high public profile, they will be identified by participant number only and

interviews and personal information which may help in identifying them has been redacted from this

report. “In addition, following the observations of Easterby-Smith, Thorpe and Lowe (1991) the

researcher had, and continues to have, control and ownership of data and will continue to exercise due

ethical responsibility by not publicising or circulating any information that is likely to harm the

interests of participants” (Price, 2007). The recordings from interviews and the completed

questionnaires will be securely stored by myself, and destroyed by deletion from digital format and

cross shredding respectively, once the report has been accepted.

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TABLE 6: DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION OF INTERVIEWEES AND QUESTIONNAIRE RESPONDENTS.

PARTICIPANT 1 PARTICIPANT 2 PARTICIPANT 3 PARTICIPANT 4 PARTICIPANT 5 PARTICIPANT 6 PARTICIPANT 7

Interviewed Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes No

Questionnaire completed Yes Yes Yes Yes No Yes Yes

Current Age range 30-35 36-40 45-50 30-35 36-40 36-40 36-40

Length of professional career 10 - 15 years 10- 15 years 6 - 10years 10 – 15 years 10 -15 years 15 - 20 years 10 - 15 years

Reason for retirement Voluntary- just felt it was time

Involuntary – injury Voluntary Involuntary – injury Involuntary – injury Voluntary - age Voluntary

Age when you started to consider retiring

30 - 35 30 -35 30 - 35 30 - 35 36 - 40 30 - 35

Length of time since retirement Less than 1 year Greater than 1 year – less than 5 years

Between 10 and 15 years

Greater than 1 year – less than 5 years




Levels played at Munster/Ireland Munster/Ireland Munster/Ireland Munster/Ireland Munster/Ireland Munster/Ireland Munster/Ireland

Highest grade of competition played in Rugby world cup Rugby world cup / International touring side

Rugby world cup / International touring side




Rugby world cup

Marital status Married/living together

Married/living together






Current occupation Financial industry Self-employed business man

Self-employed business man

Self-employed business man

Rugby related Self – employed Financial industry

Highest level of completed education Third level Secondary school Secondary school Third level Third level Third level Third level

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CHAPTER 4 – RESULTS AND FINDINGS

This chapter details the findings from the data collected, and includes tables, figures and quotes from interviews. The findings of the interviews and

questionnaires completed by the participants, highlights that all of participants have either moderately successfully to very successfully adjusted to their

post sports life. The questionnaire results on the topic were as follows;

TABLE 7: DEMOGRAPHICS AND PARTICIPANTS ADJUSTMENT TO POST SPORT LIFE

However, it is noted that when asked how long it had taken them to adjust to the new demands and social roles outside of professional rugby, the

questionnaires revealed; the participant who played rugby at a senior level prior to professionalism, who had the shortest professional career, and who was

retired the longest, adjusted within 0-2 months, the shortest time recorded; while those whose careers were those of full time professionals from

Current age range Age at retirement Age at which he considered retiring?

Length of time since retirement

How did you cope with the adjustment to post sport life?

How satisfied are you with your post sport life?

Participant 1 30-35 30 - 35 34 Less than 1 year Moderately successfully Satisfied

Participant 2 36-40 30 - 35 35 Greater than 1 year – less than 2 years

Successfully Above average level of satisfaction

Participant 3 45-50 36 - 40 33 Between 10 and 15 years Very successfully Very satisfied


Very successfully Very satisfied

Participant 5 36-40 30 - 35 Between 5 and 10 years



Participant 7 36-40 30 - 35 30 Between 5 and 10 years Moderately successfully Satisfied

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commencement, took from 3 to 6 months (for two individuals), to 1 -3 years (one participant) to adjust. Two participants, who have retired within the last

two years, recorded having not yet completely adjusted.

TABLE 8: TRANSITION PERIOD AND GENERAL ATTITUDE TOWARDS RETIREMENT

Current Age Range Age at retirement

Age at which he considered

retiring? Length of time since retirement

How long did it take before you felt completely adjusted to the new

demands and social roles outside professional rugby?

How would you describe your general

attitude towards retirement?

Participant 1 30-35 30 - 35 30-35 Less than 1 year Not yet completely adjusted Neutral

Participant 2 36-40 30 - 35 30-35 Greater than 1 year – less than 5 years Not yet completely adjusted Positive

Participant 3 45-50 36 - 40 30-35 Between 10 and 15 years 0 -2 months Positive

Participant 4 30-35 30 - 35 30 - 35 Greater than 1 year – less than 5 years 3 – 6 months Very positive

Participant 5 36-40 30 - 35 Between 5 and 10 years

Participant 6 36-40 36 - 40 36 - 40 Greater than 1 year – less than 5 years 3 – 6 months Positive

Participant 7 36-40 30 - 35 30 - 35 Between 5 and 10 years 1 -3 years Neutral

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Building on these findings, comments from interviews concerning whether or not there were any unresolved feelings, emotions about retirement, produced a somewhat mixed reaction, with the negatives stemming from the handling of injuries both prior to and after retirement, as well as the treatment of retired players by the province post retirement;

Participant 1 “Within the game, yeah …..I think there is a new batch of guys coming out of it that have just been professional all their life …. I have noticed that a lot of guys are leaving the game with a bit of bitterness and animosity towards the organisation because of the way things have finished which is pretty sad.” Participant 2 “on reflection……. and a bit of prospective I don’t think that my injury was handled with the best way possible”.

Participant 3 “I was ready to run out the garden”.

Participant 4 “Not really, no, no I am fine with it, I am completely fine with it. I would have loved to have played a bit longer…..I am very happy for all the time I had”.

Participant 5 “delighted I retired.”

Participant 6 “I walked out of there as happy as anything”.

NOTE: ON TABLES BELOW (P1) = Participant 1, (P2) = Participant 2, (P3) = Participant 3, (P4) =

Participant 4, (P5) = Participant 5, (P6) = Participant 6, (P7) = Participant 7

TABLE 9: AGE AT WHICH PARTICIPANT CONSIDERED RETIREMENT AND THEIR ADJUSTMENT AND SATISFACTION WITH POST SPORTS LIFE

Current Age Range Age at retirement


retiring?

Reason for retirement


How satisfied are you with your post sport life?

P1 30-35 30 - 35 30-35 Voluntary – just felt it was time

Moderately successfully

Satisfied

P2 36-40 30 - 35 30-35 Involuntary - injury


P3 45-50 36 - 40 30-35 Voluntary Very successfully

Very satisfied

P4 30-35 30 - 35 30 - 35 Involuntary - injury

Very successfully

Very satisfied

P5 36-40 30 - 35 Involuntary injury

P6 36-40 36 - 40 36 - 40 Voluntary - age Successfully Above average level of satisfaction

P7 36-40 30 - 35 30 - 35 Voluntary Moderately successfully

Satisfied

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4.1 FINDINGS ON THE INFLUENCES THAT EFFECT CAREER TRANSITIONS

To examine why the career transitions for participants appears to have been successful we will look at the

five influences according to Crook and Robertson, (1991) that affect career transitions;

1. Anticipatory socialisation.

The survey findings in relation to the preparation by the participants for retirement and their influences on

the decision to end their sports careers, noted the following;

It would appear from the statistics of the age of retirement and the age when the participants considered

retiring, there was a lack of pre-retirement planning on behalf of all of the participants, with three of the six

participants who completed the questionnaire only contemplating same in the final year of their career.

TABLE 10: GRADUALNESS OF CAREER TERMINATION AND FINANCIAL DEPENDENCE ON PROFESSIONAL RUGBY

Age at retirement


retiring?

Reason for retirement?

Did the end of your professional sports career come about gradually?

Have you earned enough in sport to ensure yourself a comfortable post-sport life?

To what extent did you depend on sport financially at the end of your career?

P1 30 - 35 30-35 Voluntary – just felt it was time

Slightly abruptly No Completely

P2 30 - 35 30-35 Involuntary - injury

Abruptly No Completely

P3 36 - 40 30-35 Voluntary Gradually No Below average

P4 30 - 35 30 - 35 Involuntary - injury

Gradually Yes Average

P5 30 - 35 Involuntary injury

P6 36 - 40 36 - 40 Voluntary - age

Gradually Yes Above average

P7 30 - 35 30 - 35 Voluntary Abruptly No Average

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It is perhaps surprising that so little time was given by participants to contemplating retirement given;

• All participants were over 30 when they retired;

• Only three retired due to injury;

• Three participants said that the end of their retirement career came about gradually;

• Four of the participants said that they had not earned enough in sport to ensure a comfortable post-

sports life for themselves; and

• That only one participant was not dependent averagely or above on sport financially at the end of

their career.

Given that all six participants who completed the questionnaire, registered their adjustment to post sports life

from either moderately successful to very successful, appears to contradict the research which found that

“pre-retirement planning of post-sports life broadly influences the quality of adaptation to life following a

competitive sports career “(Coakley, 1983; Pearson and Petitaspas, 1990; Stambulova, 1994; Cecic Erpic,

Wylleman and Zupancic, 2004).

One notable statistics from the demographic was that five of the seven engaged in further education during

their professional careers (all were part time students) and that of the two who did not partake in education,

one was the individual who had played at a senior level prior to professionalism, and the other person had

decided from an early age that he wished to remain in rugby through coaching. The personal development

that further education brought may have played a part in the successful transition for the individuals. Only

one of the six who completed the questionnaire (and who rated his post sports life as satisfactory – the

lowest grade recorded) did not have some activity to get involved in immediately after his retirement, with

five of the seven individuals embarking upon self-employed careers, based on them trying to use their

“public profile” to develop same.

Examining the interviews on the reluctance of the participants to engage in pre-retirement planning indicated

that there was a marked resistance to entertain the idea, stemming from;

• a personal fear of contemplating not being able to play the sport they had dedicated their lives to;

• that to contemplate the idea was to acknowledge a weakness;

• that the sport did not allow weakness;

• to the notion that their province required them to focus solely on delivering in a rugby context, and that

thoughts beyond a life in rugby were a “distraction”.

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Participant 1 “I think there was a certain part of me that did not want to admit that it was coming you know.

I think I immersed myself in IRUPA and I did help a lot of guys who were heading that way and I never, I

suppose I never took the time to do it for myself funnily enough and you know I look back on it now and I

was probably thinking that it would stay going forever you know. ..I think there was subconsciously maybe

that I didn’t want to admit it and that’s kind of the hard thing about it I suppose is that you kind of, I

should’ve given myself more time while I was playing and ah part of you then was thinking Jesus did I give

too much to rugby and not enough for myself”.

Participant 2 “I never contemplated retiring until I was injured but in terms of making a decision ….

obviously you are always contemplating retirement. It’s the fear at the back of everyone’s heads whose

playing because you are doing everything in your power during your career that you don’t have to retire

early, that you don’t retire early, that you have a contract or that you don’t pick up an injury so everything is

done with a view to not retiring so actually having to make that decision in the middle of trying to come

back to retire you know that was a total mind change”.

Participant 3 “Am, I knew 12 months before I retired that I was going to retire at the end of the, you know,

I planned myself well, I played another 12 months and that was it”.

Participant 4 “you don’t want to entertain the idea of having to retire because it maybe is that you are

almost entertaining losing or entertaining like what if I don’t win…. And eventually I just had to, I sat down

with my mate and we just considered well look if it doesn’t come right this is what’s going to happen, well

look that is the worst case scenario so then let’s get on with the fxcking thing so, you know let’s get it right”.

Participant 5 (who did not complete the questionnaire) – comments on being open to planning for

retirement; - “what I would say is that a lot of people… don’t have a kind of an overall kind of a balance in

their life and it is just literally rugby, rugby and you know they become very successful but it is one extreme

to the other and they never see it happening and that is where you see a lot of fellas playing on later and later

and older and older and they are absolutely crocked and the whole lot. But they are afraid of their life to

actually retire. Whereas I knew that you know from 26, 27 around that age I said right ok I have this now for

another few years I will make the most of it but I know then I am going to do something else different you

know. The realisation and I just knew that right I had it for a certain amount of time.”

Participant 6 comments on his attitude towards preparing for retirement, and also how professionalism and

the demand for results that this brings, may mean that while the provinces might wish for players to be

prepared for life after rugby, that this comes after delivering for the province during their career; “for a long

time because you don’t want to think about it and you are not allowed think about it or just whatever. Like it

is kind of you know you are just playing like and all you want to see is the next thing like you just don’t

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think about it and that is what is dangerous about it, that if you haven’t something before that takes over like

you just don’t know like”. And when you say you weren’t allowed to think about it was … but is it part of

the psychology of it is that no negative thoughts? “This is it like yeah. There is definitely a feeling there that

anything like that is a little bit of a distraction now that’s coming like that you are looking at another option

like”. “And there is definitely, there would definitely be a kind of a, whatever is the word from the

management, maybe even other players, players can be saying to themselves, Jesus he is not, he has got one

eye on something else… that if they hear that if someone is doing a course or someone is setting up a

business or getting involved with some partnership or something they kind of see it as ..As a distraction and

they kind of wonder is he really distracted, is he really 100% focused, committed here now anymore”.

Commenting on how some of the younger players may view retirement, and how with age the reality of

same dawns – Participant number four says “you don’t think about it otherwise you know. Like they

mention it to you but it is the same for every young player, you think you are bullet proof and you never

think you are going to have to retire and at the end of every year one of the lads gets up and you know he

makes a speech and it’s a fxcking hugely emotional thing for him and for his team mates. If he is 33 or 34

then there is team mates that played with him for 10 years, it is really tough for them as well. Young fellas

who are in the squad and they just see them and go yeah, yeah that guy is retired, what is the big deal but

they will be there in a few years hopefully as well you know. That’s just the way. That is the cycle of

sport”.

Participant number six commented on how with age comes a realisation that retirement is an approaching

reality which requires some planning, yet for the younger players it would appear to be a notion not on their

horizon;. “we are meeting Hamish from IRUPA and you would be going, oh for fxcks sake like …. Hamish

would be looking down at the young fella and he is there saying I have no more interest in what you are

saying. Now he is 24, he has just been picked and he has no fxcking interest whatsoever….. But Hamish

would know then that if he looked down he might see an older fella who is 31 or 32 who would be listening

like because at that stage there is some bit of a realisation coming like you know”.

This would support the earlier mentioned theme from Torregrosa, Boixados, Sánchez and Cruz (2004) in

that “that younger athletes and those viewing retirement as distant, tend to avoid planning prior to their

retirement and that job choice gained importance as the sporting career progressed”.

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2. Identity and self-esteem.

While all respondents expressed an average or strong identification as an athlete during their sports career,

which from previous research, such as by Cecic-Erpic (2001), would indicate that they were most likely to

experience negative emotions during the career transition process, my research findings were that in the

main the respondents transitioned favourably, and recorded only marginal problems (detailed later under the

heading “Difficulties experienced by retired professional rugby union players”) in relation to associated

negatives, which are said to include;

• Negative emotions;

• Lack of self-esteem;

• Lack of self-control;

• Lack of self-respect;

• Anxiety over an uncertain future;

• Lack of competence in non-sport activities, such as education, occupation and family life;

• Difficulties organising post-sport life; and

• Slow adaptation to social and emotional aspects of life (Cecic-Erpic, 2001).

The findings in relation to this aspect, point to participants having developed the important life skills which

they require to effectively transition into retirement.

This may stem from the age when they became professional, with all of them being over twenty when

turning professional, as well as their educational status, with all having completed secondary school prior to

turning professional, and with some even having a third level education. Coupled with this, and as

mentioned already, five of the participants engaged in education during the course of their career, which may

have equipped them to better cope with the challenges of a career outside sport.

Five of the six participants who completed the questionnaire, had either somewhat or mostly achieved their

career goals which is also seen as positive in transitioning effectively.

While five of the six questionnaire respondents confirmed that they still enjoy a public reputation because of

their sports career, only one of the seven participants is still actively involved in rugby, with all of the rest

having permanently withdrawn from rugby. Of the six respondents who completed the questionnaire, none

of them replied above neutral to the question, “how important is the role of a former professional rugby

player to you?”, with two rating it as very unimportant and two as not very important, which again might

illustrate another positive influence on an effective retirement transition, as their athletic identities are less

prominent, and they seek new challenges in life.

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TABLE 11: ATHLETIC IDENTITY, SPORTS RELATED GOALS AND LIFE

During your sports career, did you see yourself mostly as an athlete?

During your sports career, was sport the most important aspect of your life?

Reason for retirement?

Have you achieved all of your sports related goals?

To what extent did you miss sport and the lifestyle of an athlete after your career ended?

Did you feel after a while that you missed sport, when you thought about your sports career, achievements, and the people from the world of sport?

P1 Higher than average

Moderately important

Voluntary – just felt it was time

Not at all. Neutral No


Moderately important

Involuntary - injury

Somewhat Neutral No

P3 Average Below average importance

Voluntary Somewhat Not at all Yes


Extremely important

Involuntary - injury

Most goals achieved

A lot Yes

P5 Involuntary injury


Of average importance

Voluntary - age Most goals achieved

Slightly Yes

P7 Average Extremely important

Voluntary Most goals achieved

Slightly No

Participant 1 “I got involved in a charity and in, you know it’s great for me I suppose to have something

else outside of it and especially with the charity side of things… it’s a huge personal satisfaction from

helping people and you also make connections in business and learn a bit about the world outside of rugby as

well which is valuable for you when you do leave the rugby fraternity you know”.

Participant 2 “I suppose now it is business you know I from a day to day have obviously stepped away

from rugby and for whatever my business interests I am trying to use whatever profile I have from rugby to

you know transfer to those….Yeah, I don’t want to be known as an ex rugby player. I want to be known for

something else now”.

Participant 4 “So some people will too closely link the sport with their own identity and when they no

longer play the sport they feel like who the fxck am I anymore you know. And that didn’t happen me

because I have a good group of mates and I have a good group of friends and ah even in fairness with a lot

of the lads like I play with Munster we all see the value in each other beyond playing sport and that is a good

thing as well….I would say, lads there is nothing to fear about retirement because when you turn the work

ethic that you have from rugby and you apply that in the real world you just fxcking blow people away you

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know” – a comment that would not have been lost in the research from Petitpas et al. (1997) in their findings

that those athletes who were successful in learning important life-skills from their participation view

themselves not just as talented athletes but also as talented people; that they have transposed their sport

success into life success.

A recurring theme from all participants, was that they had neglected to a degree other important aspects of

their lives that were not related to sport and that they had missed important events and activities due to same,

there was an acceptance on their behalf that this was required for their role.

Participant 4 “ No, I don’t have anything to complain over I think it’s, the sport has always been good for

me and I enjoyed it”.

Participant 6 “ No there would have been friends of mine that I didn’t get to go to a wedding because we

were away on tour, there might have been something like that but there is no way I would have changed any

of it anyway. There are people working in any other type of a job and they could have missed the wedding

or something as well like”.

One participant commented in relation to trying to distance himself from his athletic identity;

Participant 6 “There might be a young fella who is 6 and he won’t recognise you, you know and that can

hurt more than anything else like…. I haven’t been to a Munster training session since I finished because I

don’t want to be there like. But like if you go around hanging around UL or where ever the boys are

training, what are you hanging there for like are you trying to still say I am part of this like because you are

not. Do you want people to recognise you they might because you are in the vicinity of that, and they say

Jesus there is your man who used to play - but like what’s that for like that’s no good to anyone like”.

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3. Personal management skills.

All of the participants expressed similar statistics in relation the number and duration of training sessions

during the height of their professional sports career – approximately nine per week for 90 minutes each.

However, in delving into these statistics through the interviews, it would appear that these times accounted

for just the physical aspect of training. As the game has evolved in the professional era, coaches and

managers have increased control over the daily routine of the players, with an enormous amount of time and

effort expected of the players on a daily basis in relation to analysis and tactics. This increased management

of the athlete’s daily routines, behaviours and decision making by coaches is thought to infringe on the

athletes developing their own personal management skills, to the detriment of their transition out of

professional sports.

Participant 2 “you are institutionalised your time is not your own so you go along where ever the bubble is

going and other things have to take a back seat…..when you step out of it, it seems that way. When you are

in there no it doesn’t because you are happy to be in there. …. It’s a safety bubble as well you know so it is

hard for people to access you and you are happy with that and it is kinda needed as well”.

One participant was quite vocal in saying that he was of the belief that this “control” had increased over the

years since he had turned professional, and that this “control” also caused issues for players in trying to

develop careers post – retirement, as the distraction of education or possible establishing one’s own business

etc. could be seen as an lack of focus on behalf of the player (see Participant’s 6 comments under the results

heading “Anticipatory socialisation” ).

Participant 6 “So it is nonstop now and that is increased beyond measure from when we started as

professionals and we thought we were in 97 to what it is now…..They are beginning to think there,

distracted is nearly the word for it, that he is going to college now or he is doing that course or like I said he

is setting up a business.”

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4. Social support systems.

The support of family and friends is highlighted as a factor in minimising the disruption that the retirement

transition brings. The results of the questionnaire highlighted that one’s partner or spouse offered the most

support post retirement, with the player’s parents next most supportive, with little or no support registered

from other family members, teammates, friends, provincial club, coaching staff, IRFU or sports

psychologist. It would appear however that there may be reluctance on the participants to ask for support in

this regard; Participant 6 – “I didn’t need it ….I think even the other fellas would have known… they knew

that I was that kind of a fella that they didn’t have to worry about me or anything like that”.

The findings of the questionnaire and the interviews highlighted the close personal bond that most of the

players developed with their team mates over their career, and these friendships amongst individuals who

would go through the same transition were helpful to most in dealing with any negative effects from same.

Friendship rated the highest on the scale of the “most important things you gained from your sports career”.

Partner rated with all questionnaire participants, in relation to somebody who they felt they could turn to if

they were having a hard or stressful time post retirement, with close friends also figuring prominently. While

all participants rated that they had someone to turn to, the use of professional help did not rate highly. There

was only one reference to the use of a professional, which was the use of a sports psychologist, and none of

the following were rated;

• Counsellor/therapist

• Coach

• Physician

• Other sports-related expert

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TABLE 12: IMPORTANT THINGS YOU GAINED FROM YOUR SPORTS CAREER AND INDIVIDUALS WHO OFFER SUPPORT AFTER RETIREMENT

Important things you gained from your sports career?

Participant 1 Participant 2 Participant 3 Participant 4 Participant 6 Participant 7

Most Friendship Financial Friendships Work ethic Friendship Achievement – using a specific talent

2nd most Financial Opportunities and contacts

Fame Friendships Financial

3rd most Fitness Friendship Financial Financial Fitness 4th most Fame Fame Fitness Fitness Fame 5th most Fitness Fame If you were having a hard and stressful time after retirement, who, if anybody, would you turn to for help? (Choices are not ranked in any particular order)


Partner Partner Partner Sports psychologist

Parents Partner

Siblings Siblings Parents Partner Close friends Close friends Partner Close friends Close friends

Participant 1 “Yeah, yeah I mean I have a lot of teammates that I would be very close to and we would talk

about very personal things …. I think the support of the guys, I think I am very lucky at the moment because

a lot of my generation has retired in the previous four or five years. A couple have retired XXXX with me

and ah there will be a few more XXXX I would say or the year after so ah we are a kinda group who have

done everything more or less together. We all sort of joined together, we all got married together, we had

kids together and we are all starting to retire around the same time so that support network that is there

amongst ourselves is invaluable really…..I think it’s not something that rugby players would be into anyway

you know, sitting down formally with someone I think is a very hard thing to get a rugby player to do so I

think from that side of things we are kind of our own support network in the sense”.

Participant 4 “It’s more social as well you know, like when you, if you ask most of the lads when they

retire they all say they miss the craic of being in the dressing room with the lads and play and all that sort of

stuff you know…. And you get to do a job you know for close on 10 years and you make so many real good

friends from it and that is something that is brilliant about playing professional rugby, you make so many

friends and they are friends for life you know… If lads come from a solid background, have a good social

support structure, family and friends and ah you know that’s the rock and then you go forward and you can

venture out and you can rip into sport”.

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Participant 6 “I just what I like about it than other sports, I loved the craic, the camaraderie, the team. …

Fellas were friends, like I am friends with those fellas they were not just team mates they are friends like and

that’s the difference like. You are not just a bunch of fellas brought together to be a team, we ended up

together and we are all, and that is why we played better I think”.

While the questionnaire did highlight that most participants had an above average number of friends from

the world of sport during their professional career, comments made during the interviews highlighted the

importance of one’s friends from outside sport in offering support to the players;

Participant 4 “I am lucky … my friends from when I was a kid who none of them play rugby but they all

supported me playing rugby but they knew me before I played rugby for Munster or Ireland and they just

knew me as XXX and it didn’t matter whether I was playing rugby or not. It was really good to have that

kind of ah that support, that social support structure around you”.

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5. Voluntary versus involuntary retirement.

In examining the reasons for retirement as outlined by the respondents to the questionnaire, the most two

most prominent appear to be injury and age. The participant, who did not complete the questionnaire,

outlined that he retired involuntarily due to injury.

TABLE 13: INFLUENCES ON YOUR DECISION TO END YOUR PROFESSIONAL SPORTS CAREER

Influences on your decision to end your professional sports career


Strongest Grew tired of lifestyle

Injury Age Injury Age The contract I was offered

2nd strongest I wasn’t being selected

My body My age Unsatisfactory performance

My age

3rd strongest Commitment to family

Being injured all the time. Was afraid that I’d end up hating the sport I’d loved my whole life

Grew tired of life as a professional.

The way I felt physically.

Did you have any doubts about your decision to end your professional sports career?

Some None at all None at all Neutral None at all Some

Reason for retirement

Voluntary – just felt it was time

Involuntary – injury

Voluntary Involuntary – injury

Voluntary – age Voluntary

Did the end of your career come about gradually?

Slightly abruptly Abruptly Gradually Gradually Gradually Abruptly


Moderately successful

Successfully Very successfully

Very successfully Successfully Moderately successfully

Length of time since retirement

Less than 1 year Greater than 1 year – less than 5 years




Between 5 and ten years

How long did it take before you felt completely adjusted to the new demands and social roles outside professional rugby?

Not yet completely adjusted

Not yet completely adjusted

0 - 2 months 3 - 6 months 3 – 6 months 1 – 3 years

Research outlined earlier, has identified that retirement due to injury is prevalent in the sport of professional

rugby union. When looking at the findings from the questionnaires and the interviews, in relation to the

individuals who retired outlining injury as the main cause, they have all registered satisfaction with their

retirement transition. The research in relation to the effect on transitions due to career ending injuries,

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highlights possible outcomes such as “identity crises, social withdrawal, fear, anxiety, and loss of self-

esteem” (Elkin,1981; Rotella and Heyman,1986). While there were recordings of marginal issues with self-

esteem and anxiety in the questionnaire, they were not hugely significant.

In the case of the three individuals in the sample who retired due to injury, the individual who has not yet

completed adjusted to retirement, was the only one whose injury lead to an abrupt cessation (Participant 2)

of his career, while the other two had on-going injuries which eventually curtailed their careers, which may

indicate that the abruptness of the career termination may affect the retirement transition process.

Participant 2 “from now and a bit of prospective I don’t think that my injury was handled with the best way

possible….I think probably, in some ways it was handled poorly in terms of my rehabilitation with XXXX.

….Am, not really because I think, well I am hoping that I made the right decision I think if I tried to go back

anyway it wouldn’t have been successful and I would be in a worse position now”.

Participant 4 “The main thing is keep yourself right mentally and physically and if you can’t keep going…..

Not really, no, no I am fine with it, I am completely fine with it. I would have loved to have played a bit

longer, you know I still feel sometimes when I am training now I go XXX it would be good to get back but I

know that the last 2 years of my career were mentally very, very hard on me because I was working my

bxllocks off and getting nowhere with my injury you know… I spent 2 years working my bxllocks off and

getting nothing out of the sport what I felt was nothing, I thought I had to retire, I was bitter at the sport and

suddenly out of nowhere I got another 5 or 6 weeks playing for Ireland, playing with my team mates and

you know I said I am after getting that now and I am not going to finish like fxcking angry at the sport, I am

very happy for all the time I had”.

In looking at age as an influence on the decision of some of the participants to retire, the two who counted it

as the strongest influence on them, retired the oldest, with both being over 35 years of age. Their successful

transitions may in part stem from the control that they were able to exert over their own fate. The findings

from the interviews highlight that a decrease in motivation was evident in one individual, while a change in

values and priorities was prominent in both.

Participant 3 “No, I think the reason I decided or started to think about giving up was because my body was

telling me. ….My body would have told me alright, you know that you are coming to an end because

physically and I suppose mentally as well…..It would have because like I had decided a year, maybe a year

and half before I finished that I was going to open the business so..”.

Participant 6 “leaving on a Thursday, flying over, landing in Bristol or Cardiff or something, getting a bus

down, staying in the hotel, go play the game Friday and travel home then that night back into Shannon at 1

o’clock in the morning back here at 2 you know the novelty wore off…. Because I knew I was finishing, I

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knew tonight was my last time I was ever going to play whereas other players don’t know that, they could be

playing today at 25 like and next thing fxck up their knee like and that is it they might never play again but

they didn’t know that at the time . I was like the fella I suppose on death row or something I knew my time

was coming and that was it”.

The final two participants bowed out on completely voluntary, with one stating that the main reason was

that he was tired of the lifestyle and the other not satisfied with the contract that he was offered. The control

exert by these individuals over their retirement decision is said to aid the ease of transition, which may in

some way explain their successful adjustment to a non-sporting role. Three of the participants in the

questionnaire had no doubts about the decision to end their rugby career, with two expressing some doubts

and one being neutral on the subject.

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4.2 DIFFICULTIES EXPERIENCED BY RETIRED PROFESSIONAL RUGBY UNION

PLAYERS

The participants in the questionnaire highlight two emotional states which figure strongly in their experience

post retirement, sadness which is experienced frequently by four of the six participants, and relief which is

experienced by all participants.

TABLE 14: EMOTIONAL STATES EXPERIENCED POST RETIREMENT


Dissatisfaction Occasionally Very little Not at all Not at all Not at all Very little

Inability to reconcile

myself with the end of

my professional career

Not at all Very little Not at all Not at all Not at all Neutral

Sadness Frequently Frequently Frequently Frequently Not at all Very little

Fear of an uncertain

future

Frequently Neutral Not at all Very little Not at all Frequently

Relief Frequently Very little Frequently Very little Frequently Very little

The retirement transitions as noted by the participants in both the questionnaires and interviews have ranged

from either moderately successfully to very successfully in their adjusted to their post sports life. However in

delving deeper into the issue, problems were encountered by the participants.

In looking at the problems experienced by the athletes after retirement, the most striking issues, include;

Psychological and psychosocial level:

• The loss of the social aspect of rugby, with all participants noting problems with missing friends

from sport, and the majority noting a problem in missing social activities related to rugby, as well as

missing the lifestyle of a rugby player – social and cultural loneliness , in concurrence with the

findings of Botterill (1988) .

• There are also slight problems noted in establishing social contacts – problems with building new

relationships outside of sports. As was found by Cecic´ Erpicˇ, (1998) and Mihovilovic, (1968).

• Recorded slight problems in relation to feelings of unaccomplished athletic goals. Congruent to the

findings of Cecic´ Erpicˇ (1998) and Werthner and Orlick (1986).

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• The loss of status as a public figure and the loss of public admiration is noted by three individuals, as

being slightly problematic, together with slight problems in relation to lowered self-confidence and

self-worth – identity crisis - as also found by Baillie and Danish, 1992; Crook and Robertson,

1991; Pearson and Petitpas, 1990 .

Physical level:

• Five of the six interview participants recorded health issues post retirement. It is apparent that the

fifth participant who did not complete the questionnaire, also suffered from health issues post

retirement, which mirrors the findings of Svoboda and Vanek, (1982) and Werthner and Orlick

(1986).

• There were no pronounced findings in relation to detraining or weight problems.

Occupational level:

This level was quite problematic for most of the participants. Issues included;

• Financial difficulties – which affected five of the six questionnaire participants;

• Problems finding a job – affecting four of the six;

• Lack of professional knowledge – affecting five of the six; and

• Difficulty in planning one’s future - affecting four of the six.

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TABLE 15: PROBLEMS EXPERIENCED POST RETIREMENT AND THEIR DEGREE OF SEVERITY

Participant 1 Participant 2 Participant 3 Participant 4 Participant 6 Participant 7 How did you cope with the adjustment to post sport life?



Very successfully

Successfully Moderately successfully

How satisfied are you with your post sports life?

Satisfied Above average level of satisfaction

Very satisfied Very satisfied Above average level of satisfaction

Satisfied

Indicate the magnitude of each problem as it applied to you after the end of your sports career- Health problems

Not problematic Problematic Slightly problematic

Highly problematic

Slightly problematic


Detraining difficulties Not problematic Not problematic

Not problematic

Not problematic



Weight problems Not problematic Not problematic

Not problematic

Not problematic


Problematic

Alcohol abuse Not problematic Slightly problematic

Not problematic

Not problematic

Not problematic


Drug abuse Not problematic Not problematic

Not problematic

Not problematic

Not problematic

Not problematic

Missing friends from world of sport


Problematic Problematic Problematic Highly problematic

Problematic

Missing sports related social activities

Problematic Problematic Problematic Highly problematic


Not problematic

Difficulties in establishing social contacts



Not problematic



Not problematic

Missing the lifestyle of an athlete

Problematic Slightly problematic

Problematic Highly problematic

Problematic Not problematic

Feelings of underachievement in sport-related goals

Not problematic Slightly problematic

Not problematic



Problematic

Loss of status as public figure Slightly problematic

Not problematic

Not problematic



Not problematic

Loss of public admiration Slightly problematic

Not problematic

Not problematic



Not problematic

Financial difficulties Slightly problematic


Not problematic




Problem with finding a job Highly problematic

Not problematic

Not problematic




Difficulties with adjustment to regular school/study


Not problematic



Not problematic

Feelings of incompetence in activities other than sport


Not problematic

Not problematic



Lack of professional knowledge Problematic Slightly problematic

Not problematic



Highly problematic

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Participant 1 Participant 2 Participant 3 Participant 4 Participant 6 Participant 7 Work/school/study pressure Problematic Not

problematic Not problematic



Not problematic

Difficulties with planning one’s future


Not problematic




Lowered self confidence Problematic Not problematic

Not problematic

Not problematic



Lowered self-worth Problematic Not problematic

Not problematic

Not problematic



Lack of self-control Not problematic Not problematic

Not problematic

Not problematic



Relationship difficulties with parents/family


Not problematic

Not problematic


Not problematic

Relationship difficulties with one’s partner


Not problematic

Not problematic



Relationship difficulties with one’s coach

Not problematic Not problematic

Not problematic



Not problematic

Relationship difficulties with one’s sports academy

Not problematic Not problematic

Not problematic

Not problematic


Not problematic

Relationship with one’s club Not problematic Not problematic

Not problematic

Not problematic


Not problematic

Lower self esteem Problematic Not problematic

Not problematic




Fear of an uncertain future Slightly problematic

Not problematic

Not problematic



Highly problematic

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4.3 FUTURE PLAYER ISSUES

Through the interview process the players expressed a level of concern for the professional players of the

future. In the main these circled around the development of these players outside of the game, such that they

may be equipped for life post retirement. While there was acknowledgement that the setting up of IRUPA

and the services it provides are a positive step for the welfare of players, there were still expressions of

worry about what the future may hold for the players of today and the future;

Participant 6; “like I said you will get a young fella who is good at rugby, he will be in school and he is

thinking I want to play rugby or I am not going to bother or half bother with education like and he can’t

stress enough that fellas have to have it…... You need I suppose there is a lot of onus on that as well that

they will do it and I suppose you need the, you need the teams, the IRFU to put an emphasis on education as

well, that they allow time for it even as you know, even for players that are, that have gone old or are getting

towards the end of their career that they allow time in the week for education.”

Participant four speaking about the rugby pathway in Munster, and how players are coming to the game

professionally at a younger age; “Am, well yeah the pathway is changing all the time now and players would

have come out and I suppose they probably needed to do a certain amount of physical development and a lot

of players kind of go and serve a kind of apprentice then you know playing club rugby and trying to get onto

their club team, when they get onto their club team then at least they are in the shop window then to get

selected for Munster. The way it’s happening now, the way it is moving on is that the players are developing

in school a lot quicker. And schools have strength and conditioning programmes put in place. Sometimes

guys are coming straight out of school and they are ready to step in and play professional rugby straight

away.”

Participant four when asked about if players have to retire in their twenties; “you know if you are in your

30’s you have a little bit more life experience and you can handle retirement a bit better. …when players do

have to retire young it is going to be a bit more difficult for them to… particularly lads who have to retire if

they haven’t felt that they kind of realised their potential in the sport you know, if they feel like they had

unfinished business and they can carry that for a while after they retire but” .

Other issues made by participants echoed some of the issues raised in the popular press, about rugby moving

away from its roots since turning professional, and that this movement has been to the detriment of the game,

through its handling of the players. They suggest that the clubs and national governing bodies as employers,

should adopt an increased onus of care for their employees, even beyond their playing days;

Participant 1; “I still think it’s still a business and the IRFU interest in players after they finish is still fairly

minimal and I think it is important to try and get back to the family way.. . I think you know it is still a

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business for them but I think we are very different to other businesses and you know when guys commit so

much to a company, not just time but physically and mentally to a company like that you know there has to

be more of a duty of care I think afterwards”.

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CHAPTER 5 - DISCUSSION AND CONCLUSION

This chapter provides a critical evaluation of the research findings. It pulls together the research questions

and objectives that were explored with the answers that were obtained through the analysis of the data and

provides a commentary on these findings and identifies limitations of the study and makes suggestions for

future research.

5.1 DISCUSSION

Cecic´ Erpicˇ et al. (2004, p. 57) advocates that “the understanding of the sports career termination process,

which incorporates both athletic and non-athletic aspects, provides a complex and multifaceted perspective

of the course of athletic retirement and adaptation to post sports life”. Given the limitation in our research,

through an insufficient sample size it is not possible to authoritatively state the factors which have given rise

to the successful transitions of our participants.

In examining the findings, it would appear that while in the main the participants were not overly proactive

in planning for their retirement, and that some of the participants had to retire due to injury, or had an abrupt

cessation of their career, which has been found to negatively affect the transition to retirement, elements of

the other factors including voluntariness of career termination for some, subjective positive evaluation of

athletic achievement, strong social support systems, and the development of a personal identity outside of

their athletic one, by all, coupled with non-athletic factors, such as education, may have had led to the

successful transitions of the participants with only slight problems being encountered.

While the participant’s athletic identity was rated average or strong by them during their sports career, their

success during their careers, which reduced any negatives that unachieved sports related goals may have

visited, together with their pursuit of outside interests, through education and business interests, sees all

individuals having progressed from this athletic persona. Their ability to distance themselves from their

athletic identity may also have been beneficially affected by the relative youth of the professional game,

which had allowed them to develop as individuals prior to becoming professional, a factor they have

highlighted may lead to more serious issues for future players, who may not be afforded the same

opportunity to develop outside of the game.

The participants all noted strong social support systems, in the shape of partners, family, friends and team

mates. All of the participants lived local to Limerick or its surrounds, so this was also of benefit in having

69 | P a g e

these support systems in close proximity. The existence of these systems is said to ease the disruption caused

by the retirement transition. One of the most problematic issues recorded by participants in retirement was

the social aspect of rugby, with all participants noting problems with missing friends from sport, and the

majority noting a problem in missing social activities related to the sport. Perhaps there is an opportunity for

the provincial set up to address this problem through the setting up of a “Retired Munster Players” alumni,

and organising events to honour them.

The negative effects oft times caused by involuntary retirement, were mitigated in the main by the gradually

transitions they endured. Two of the players who retired due to injury, had recurring injuries for considerable

time before they had to retire, which allowed them to transition gradually. They had access to a sports

psychologist during their rehab process which may also have been beneficial in the transition. Of the two

individuals who retired due to age, their cessations were orchestrated by themselves, which may have

afforded them a level of control over the process which has been found to ease the negative effects of

transitions.

It is noted that some of the most problematic issues faced by the participants revolved around occupation.

The issues recorded included financial difficulties, problems finding a job, lack of professional knowledge

and difficulty in planning one’s future. A more proactive approach to retirement may have helped solve

these problems prior to them becoming issues for the participants.

In examining the services which players thought might be useful after retirement, the following were

considered by many to be useful, with many of them overlapping on the issues detailed in the last paragraph;

• Help in finding a new career or area of interest;

• Help in building your confidence in post sport – life;

• Information on work and educational opportunities;

• Financial counselling;

• Assistance/guidance with medical and health care; and

• Information on how other athletes have dealt with retirement.

While it is noted, that these are all services now offered by IRUPA, perhaps mandating that players engage

in planning for the retirement transition throughout their careers, might increase their effectiveness. To

ensure that all players engage in same, throughout their career, perhaps a career development plan can be

affected alongside the player’s athletic development plan, with penalties and bonuses attached to the

completion of same. The endorsement of this by the provincial management team should be strengthened

with increased flexibility from them, to allow players to undertake further education or to develop skills

identified as necessary for post-retirement careers. As referenced by Wylleman et al. (1999) Baillie (1993),

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“the emphasis of the sports career assistance programme should be on athlete’s functional adjustments in the

pre-retirement phase, while in the period of post-retirement, the emphasis should be on the provision of

support with regard to emotional adjustment”. In summary, the participants who engaged in my research

recorded little negative effects from their transition into retirement, however, they all express a caveat that, it

is the current players and those who follow, (who may have been immersed in rugby from a very young age,

and who may have neglected, through youthful exuberance or through increased demands from team

management, to develop outside interests or to engage in career development post rugby, through education

or the like), that may encounter more difficult transitions into retirement with the associated negative effects.

TABLE 16: RECOMMENDATIONS ON POST RETIREMENT SERVICES

Participant 1 Participant 2 Participant 3 Participant 4 Participant 6 Participant 7 How did you cope with the adjustment to post sport life?



Very successfully

Successfully Moderately successfully

How satisfied are you with your post sports life?

Satisfied Above average level of satisfaction

Very satisfied Very satisfied Above average level of satisfaction

Satisfied

How useful would you find the following services after sports retirement ;

help in finding a new career or area of interest?

Very useful Very useful Not useful Not useful Above average level of usefulness

Slightly useful

Help in learning how to transfer your mental skills to a new career or area of interest?

Very useful Above average level of usefulness

Not useful Not useful Above average level of usefulness

Not useful

Help in building your confidence in post sport – life?


Not useful Not answered

Slightly useful Of average usefulness

Information on work and educational opportunities?

Very useful Of average usefulness

Not useful Not answered Of average usefulness

Of average usefulness

Financial counselling? Very useful Very useful Not useful Not answered Above average level of usefulness

Slightly useful

Assistance in finding a new place to live?

Not very useful

Slightly useful Not useful Not answered Slightly useful Not useful

Assistance/guidance with medical and health care?


Not useful Not answered Above average level of usefulness

Slightly useful

Physiological and dietary detraining programme?

Very useful Slightly useful Not useful Not answered Slightly useful Not useful

Information on how other athletes have dealt with retirement?


Not useful Not answered Above average level of usefulness

Slightly useful

Workshops with other retired athletes to share and learn from each others experiences?


Not useful Not answered Not useful Slightly useful

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5.2 LIMITATIONS OF THE RESEARCH

As noted earlier the sample size from the questionnaires respondents is too small in scale and the

demographic of just retired professional rugby union players who have played for Munster, would need to be

expanded significantly to derive results which could be generalised to the population.

The limitation of the questionnaire scale used is the reliance on self-report measures as opposed to inclusion

of more objective measures. This reliance raises concern regarding self-report bias and common method

bias. The scale does not incorporate any measures such as the inclusion of questions from the “Marlowe-

Crowne Social Desirability Scale” to highlight social desirability bias. This occurs when individuals describe

or rate themselves in a manner that is untruthful or in a way that they feel may be viewed favourably by

others (Steenkamp, et al., 2010). These biased responses are based on cultural norms and the desirability of

certain values, personality traits, attitudes, interests, opinions and behaviours (Steenkamp, et al., 2010).

There is a tendency for respondents to provide answers to certain questions based on their expectations of

what their culture would deem acceptable. This may result in an overly positive or negative bias, so these

individuals can be judged in a favourable way by others (Tourangeau and Yan, 2007). Social desirability

bias compromises data quality and validity (Steenkamp et al., 2010).

For one participant, a telephone interview format was adopted. This format inhibits the detection of non-

verbal respondent cues that accompany a physical interview. I am confident that having establish a level of

trust with the participant, that this did not corrupt the results of this interview.

Potential memory decay may be a limitation in any retrospective study, Wagenaar (1986) as in Strean

(1998). Strean (1998) suggests that “trivial and unimportant incidents have been shown to be much more

receptive to memory decay than major events like the ones that were the focus of interest” (Marthinus,

2007). Gould, Jackson and Finch (1993) also highlight an inherent limitation of this type of investigation,

“that athletic success experienced may bias recall of events”.

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5.3 IMPLICATIONS FOR FUTURE RESEARCH

The findings of the study raise important questions for future research on the subject;

As the professional rugby union has advanced, and with the development of academy systems in all of the

Irish provinces, the age at which individuals are becoming professional is getting lower. As this research

outlined, part of the possible explanation as to why all of the participants transitioned successfully may lie in

their development as individuals. This it is hypothesised, may be due to the players turning professional at an

older age, or having worked, or engaged in third level education prior to becoming professional rugby union

players, which may have helped develop a personal identity prior to an athletic identity, which may have

eased the transition. In examining a sample of players who had turned professional from their late teens and

early twenties, who were developed through the academy route, may enlighten our knowledge on the

possibility of players developing identity foreclosure, and the role that this may play in the transition of these

athletes on retirement. This research should examine if “individuals who strongly commit themselves to the

athletic role may be less likely to explore other career, education and lifestyle options due to their intensive

involvement in sport” (Brewer et al, 1993, p. 241).

This study focused exclusively on professional rugby union. Research is recommended to be conducted on

other sports, both team and individual, to confirm whether the conclusions drawn from this project are

applicable in those sports. Ball (1976) and Greendorfer and Blinde (1985) suggested that the transition

experience is probably highly related to the specific sport setting and the institutional context of the setting,

and it would be interesting to test this hypothesis.

Cross country and cultural investigations should be carried out, to help identify practices adopted by

associations which lead to more successful transitions for their players. Roberts’ (2010) found that coping

mechanism differed according to nationality and building on this research could give valuable insight into

effective transitions.

The research failed to measure the success of the individual’s transitions. A multiple regression could be

conducted in future research to determine those factors that contributed most to a successful transition from

sports (Marthinus, 2007, p. 177).

Future research should also incorporate interviews and questionnaires prior to retirement, which may

identify potential increases or decreases in subjective well-being from within the sports career to the

transition phase, and possible explanations for this phenomenon.

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5.4 CONCLUSION

The findings from my research corroborate that there are influences, both athletic and non-athletic, on the

retirement process which may mitigate against the negative psychological effects often associated with the

transitions of professional athletes into retirement.

The athletes themselves play an important role in ensuring that they transition successfully to the next stage

of their life, post retirement from sport. It requires them not just acknowledging that the length of their

professional careers is fickle, it means them being proactive in being prepared to handle the end, no matter

when that arises, and no matter how much they care not to think of it. The focus of interest for athletes and

their representative bodies in the future, has to involve the development of intervention strategies and career-

transition programmes throughout the athletes career, which should seek to “develop professional skills and

to foster broader life skills that will facilitate a smoother transition from elite sports” (Smith and McManus,

2008).

Sporting clubs and teams have to also evolve from attempting to just produce successful athletes and teams.

More awareness has to be given to the fact that these athletes will retire, with lives left to live, and that they

can play an important part in ensuring the success of an athlete beyond his or her playing days. These clubs

and teams should draw on the “experiences of their former players , to develop a programme, appropriate for

the sport in which they play and the players involved, which will guide the players to make appropriate

lifestyle choices to minimise the stress of transition for current and recently retired athletes” (Smith and

McManus, 2008).As mentioned previously, it is the players who are now coming through the rugby system,

who are possibly at the greatest risk of encountering the negative consequences of retirement transitions, due

to factors such as, identities formed exclusively around rugby, low levels of career awareness, and

insufficient life skills. If clubs do not help to address this situation, what future will these players have?

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APPENDICES

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APPENDIX 1: QUESTIONNAIRE

Dear ________________, I am currently doing research on “the issues that rugby union players face in their transition from the arena of playing as a professional to their retirement from the game?” for a BA in Human Resource Management in the University of Limerick. This research forms part of my Final Year Project which is required to complete same. Given the relevant youth of the professional rugby union worldwide, I felt that the retirement effects on its players was both an interesting area of study and also a timely one. Although your involvement in this research should require very little of your time, it nevertheless means that I may be privy to some of your personal information. This information will be treated in the upmost confidentiality and the ethical guidelines are laid out by the University of Limerick will be adhered to at all times. Should you wish at any stage to have your questionnaire removed from the data in the report, your quest will be adhered to. In return for your valuable time and valued information, I plan to provide all of the individuals who take part with interesting feedback once the report has been finalised that may be of use to players who are in transition to retirement or to those who have already taken that step. I would appreciate it, if you would complete and return the enclosed questionnaire to me. In order to finalise the report in a timely manner, I would appreciate it if you could complete same, no sooner than the 10th of November 2012. I envisage being in a position to forward you the results of my report in October 2013, upon completion and submission of my Final Year Project. Thanking you in advance for your co-operation in this matter. Thomas Fitzgerald Phone : 086-0491039 Email : [email protected] Address : 31 Cragaun, Fr. Russell Road, Limerick.

mailto:[email protected]

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Sports Career Termination Questionnaire (Adapted version of the SCTQ II)

Name : This questionnaire deals with the course of your sport career termination and adjustments to post-sport life. If you are still active in Rugby (e.g. competing at amateur level) consider the questions as referring to your professional Rugby Union career, which has already ended. Instructions: You will be required to answer the majority of the questionnaire items by circling the number that best represents your opinion on the statement in question. Example : I started planning my post-sports life during my sports career. 1 means “I strongly disagree” and 5 means “I strongly agree”. So, if you completely agree with the statement, you will circle 5. In the case of questions with checkbox answers, check the one that applies. When completing specific details in the space provided, please print where applicable to ensure legibility.

• Please respond to every statement. • Make sure that you always choose one response unless specifically advised otherwise. • It is essential that your answers will be sincere. • Your answers will be kept in strict confidence and destroyed subsequently using cross- shredding. • Should you desire at any stage to have your data removed from the sample at any stage their request

will be adhered to immediately.

Thanking you in advance for your willingness to part-take in this research. Regards Thomas Fitzgerald Phone : 086-0491039 Email : [email protected] Address : 31 Cragaun, Fr. Russell Road, Limerick.


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Biographical Information 1. Age : ____________ Years 2. Marital Status :

� Single

� Married /living together

� Separated/divorced/widowed

� Partner relationship but living alone 3. Do you have children? Yes__________ No____________ If “YES” how many children? _______________________ 4. Current occupation: _______________________________________________ 5. Highest level of completed education:

� Primary school

� Technical school

� Secondary school

� Third level certificate

� Third level diploma

� Bachelor’s Degree

� Master’s Degree

� Doctoral Degree

� Other. Please specify_______________________________________________ Are you still studying? Yes__________ No____________ If “YES”, please specify_____________________________________________ 6. Have you taken any educational or training programmes (e.g. coaching certificate programme / course)? Yes__________ No____________ If “YES”, please specify_____________________________________________ 7. How many years did you compete in your sport (all levels)? ____________Years 8. For how many years were you a member of a : Club Team? _____ Provincial team? _______ Years National team? ________ Years 9. For how many years was sport your top-priority commitment? ____________ Years

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10. Approximately how many training sessions per week did you have at the height of your professional sports career? _________________________ Sessions

11. Approximately how long was the average training session?______________ Hours

12. At which level did you compete at the peak of your career?

� Club level

� Provincial level

� International Level 13. Please specify highest grade of competition played in:

� Domestic club league i.e. AIL League

� Magners / Pro 12 League

� Heineken Cup

� Friendly international

� Six (Five) Nations International

� World Cup

� International Touring Side

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Life during your Professional Rugby Union Career

1. Did you study during your professional rugby union career? Yes ________ No___________ If “Yes” at what level? Secondary school _______ Third Level _________ Other__________ If other please specify?___________________________________________________________ 2. What was your schooling status at that time?

� Did not study

� Full-time study

� Part-time study 3. Did you stop studying as a result of your sport commitment? Yes__________ No____________ 4. During your professional career, were you married or involved in a close relationship? Yes____ No____ NOTE FOR QUESTION 5,7,10 LIKERT SCALE FROM 1 TO 5 WITH (1) INDICATING VERY LITTLE AND (5) A LOT 5. In your opinion, how much have you earned with your sports involvement? 1 2 3 4 5 6. Have you earned enough in sport to ensure yourself a comfortable post-sport life? Yes______ No______ 7. How famous were you during your professional sports career? 1 2 3 4 5 8. Did you enjoy a privileged status among your peers due to your sports involvement? Yes_____ No_____ 9. Did you enjoy a privileged status among adults due to your sports involvement? Yes___ No__ Uncertain___ 10. Because of your total commitment to sport, did you neglect other important aspects of life that were not related to sport? 1 2 3 4 5

NOTE FOR QUESTION 11 LIKERT SCALE FROM 1 TO 5 WITH (1) INDICATING NOT AT ALL AND (5) A LOT 11. Because of your total commitment to sport, did you miss some important events and activities that were not related to sport? 1 2 3 4 5

NOTE FOR QUESTION 12 LIKERT SCALE FROM 1 TO 5 WITH (1) INDICATING VERY RARELY AND (5) OFTEN

12. How often did you engage in social activities during your professional sports career? 1 2 3 4 5

NOTE FOR QUESTION 13 LIKERT SCALE FROM 1 TO 5 WITH (1) INDICATING VERY FEW AND (5) MANY 13. How many friends did you have during your elite sports career? 1 2 3 4 5

NOTE FOR QUESTION 14 LIKERT SCALE FROM 1 TO 5 WITH (1) INDICATING NOT AT ALL AND (5) A LOT

14. During your professional career, were most of your friends from the world of sport? 1 2 3 4 5

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NOTE FOR QUESTION 15 LIKERT SCALE FROM 1 TO 5 WITH (1) INDICATING VERY BAD AND (5) VERY GOOD 15. What was your relationship with your family like during your professional sports career? 1 2 3 4 5

NOTE FOR QUESTION 16 -23 LIKERT SCALE FROM 1 TO 5 WITH (1) INDICATING VERY LITTLE AND (5) A LOT

16. Did your parents offer you support during your sports career? 1 2 3 4 5 17. In your opinion, how much did your parents invest financially in your sports career? 1 2 3 4 5 18. Did you think about the end of your sports career during your professional playing days? 1 2 3 4 5

19. Did you start planning your post-sport life during your sports career? 1 2 3 4 5

20. During your sports career, did you think of yourself mostly as an athlete? 1 2 3 4 5

21. During your sports career, were most of your goals related to sport? 1 2 3 4 5

22. During your sports career, was sport the most important aspect of your life? 1 2 3 4 5

23. During your sports career, did other people see you primarily as an athlete? 1 2 3 4 5

Sport Career Termination 24. Which year did you first start thinking about ending your professional sports career? ________ Year What age were you then?____________ Comments:___________________________________________________________________________ 25. Which year did you terminate your professional sports career? ______________ Year What age were you then?____________ 26. At what time of the season did you terminate your professional sports career?

� During pre-season

� Commencement of the season

� During the season

� At the end of the season 27. How strongly did each of the following factors influence your decision to terminate your professional sports career? Using the 1-to-5 intensity scale, indicate the influence each factor had on your decision to end your sports career. 1 = No influence at all 5 = Very strong influence No influence at all Very strong influence 27.1 You achieved most major goals in your sport 1 2 3 4 5 27.2 You grew tired of the lifestyle of a professional rugby union player 1 2 3 4 5 (e.g. travelling/stress) 27.3 You were offered an opportunity outside your sport career 1 2 3 4 5 (e.g. job offer / an educational opportunity)

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27.4 You committed yourself to school/study 1 2 3 4 5 27.5 You found other employment 1 2 3 4 5 27.6 You committed yourself to your family 1 2 3 4 5 27.7 You wanted to devote more time to your partner relationship 1 2 3 4 5 27.8 You had problems with coaching staff 1 2 3 4 5 27.9 You had problems with your academy 1 2 3 4 5 29.10You suffered an injury of other health problems 1 2 3 4 5 29.11You were in a poor relationship with team mates 1 2 3 4 5 29.12You were in financial difficulties 1 2 3 4 5 29.13You had poor working and training conditions 1 2 3 4 5 29.14You were not being selected 1 2 3 4 5 29.15Your age 1 2 3 4 5 29.16 Changes in competition regulations 1 2 3 4 5 29.17 Changes in techniques 1 2 3 4 5 29.18 Unsatisfactory performance 1 2 3 4 5 29.19 Lack of support from family 1 2 3 4 5 29.20 Lack of support from friends 1 2 3 4 5 29.20 ressure from parents 1 2 3 4 5 30. From the list of factors outlined in number 29 above, choose the three factors that had the strongest influence on your decision to end your professional rugby union playing career? 1. _________________________________________________________________________ 2. _________________________________________________________________________ 3. _________________________________________________________________________ Not voluntary at all to Completely voluntary 31. How voluntary was your decision to end your professional sports career? 1 2 3 4 5

Not at all to A lot

32. Did the end of your professional sports career come about gradually? 1 2 3 4 5 33. What was the level of your performance when you decided to end your professional sports career?

� I was at the peak of my sports career

� My performance was improving

� My performance was declining

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General Mental and Emotional State during transition from playing professional to retirement

34. Is you withdrawal from playing rugby union professional as a competitor;

� Permanent

� Temporary

� Unresolved Not at all to A Lot 35. Did you have doubts about your decision to end your professional sports career? 1 2 3 4 5 36. Below is a list of emotional states that may have accompanied your retirement from professional sport. Using the 1-to-5 intensity scale, indicate which number best reflects the absence/presence of each of them. 1 = not at all. 5 = a lot. Not at all to A Lot 36.1 Dissatisfaction 1 2 3 4 5 36.2 Could not reconcile myself to the end of my professional career 1 2 3 4 5 36.3 Sadness 1 2 3 4 5 36.4 Fear of an uncertain future 1 2 3 4 5 36.5 Relief 1 2 3 4 5 35.6 Other _____________________________________________ 1 2 3 4 5 Not at all A Lot 37. How much has retirement from professional sport changed your life? 1 2 3 4 5 Very negative Very positive 38. How was the change generally? 1 2 3 4 5 39. Below is a list of problems which elite athletes are often faced with after retirement from sport. Using the 1-to-5 intensity scale, indicate the magnitude of each problem as it applied to you at the end of your elite-sport career. 1 = no problem at all. 5 = Posed great problems. Posed no problem Very problematic 39.1 Health problems (injuries) etc. 1 2 3 4 5 39.2 Detraining difficulties 1 2 3 4 5 39.3 Weight problems 1 2 3 4 5 39.4 Alcohol abuse 1 2 3 4 5 39.5 Drug abuse 1 2 3 4 5 39.6 Missing friends from the world of sport environment 1 2 3 4 5 39.7 Missing sport-related social activities 1 2 3 4 5 39.8 Difficulties in establishing social contacts 1 2 3 4 5 39.9 Missing the lifestyle of an athlete 1 2 3 4 5 39.10 Feelings of underachievement in sport-related goals 1 2 3 4 5 39.11 Loss of status as a public figure 1 2 3 4 5

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39.12 Loss of public admiration 1 2 3 4 5 39.13 Financial difficulties 1 2 3 4 5 39.14 Problems with finding a job 1 2 3 4 5 39.15 Difficulties with adjustment to the requirements of your occupation 1 2 3 4 5 39.16 Difficulties with adjustment to regular school/study 1 2 3 4 5 39.17 Feelings of incompetence in activities other than sport 1 2 3 4 5 39.18 Lack of professional knowledge 1 2 3 4 5 39.19 Work/school/study pressure 1 2 3 4 5 39.20 Difficulties with planning one’s future 1 2 3 4 5 39.21 Lowered self-confidence 1 2 3 4 5 39.22 Lowered self-worth 1 2 3 4 5 39.23 Lack of self-control 1 2 3 4 5 39.24 Relationship difficulties with parents/family 1 2 3 4 5 39.25 Relationship difficulties with one’s partner 1 2 3 4 5 39.26 Relationship difficulties with one’s coach 1 2 3 4 5 39.27 Relationship difficulties with one’s sport academy/association 1 2 3 4 5 39.28 Relationship difficulties with one’s rugby club 1 2 3 4 5 39.29 Low self-esteem 1 2 3 4 5 39.30 Fear of an uncertain future 1 2 3 4 5 39.31 Other _________________________________________ 1 2 3 4 5 Not at all Completely 40. Have you achieved all of your sport-related goals? 1 2 3 4 5

Not at all Completely 41. To what extent did you depend on sport financially at the end of your career? 1 2 3 4 5 42. After your retirement from sport, how much support (e.g. emotional, financial, etc.) did you receive from the following; 1= None 3 = A little 5 = A Lot 42.1 Partner / Spouse 1 2 3 4 5 42.2 Parents 1 2 3 4 5 42.3 Other family members 1 2 3 4 5 42.4 Teammates 1 2 3 4 5 42.5 Friends 1 2 3 4 5 42.6 Provincial club 1 2 3 4 5 42.7 Coaching staff 1 2 3 4 5 42.8 IRFU 1 2 3 4 5 42.9 Sports psychologist 1 2 3 4 5 Other: _______________________________________ 1 2 3 4 5

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43. After your retirement from sport, how much support (e.g. emotional, financial, etc.) did you expect from the following; 1= None 3 = A little 5 = A Lot 43.1 Partner / Spouse 1 2 3 4 5 43.2 Parents 1 2 3 4 5 43.3 Other family members 1 2 3 4 5 43.4 Teammates 1 2 3 4 5 43.5 Friends 1 2 3 4 5 43.6 Provincial club 1 2 3 4 5 43.7 Coaching staff 1 2 3 4 5 43.8 IRFU 1 2 3 4 5 43.9 Sports psychologist 1 2 3 4 5 43.10 Other: _______________________________________ 1 2 3 4 5 Organisation to post-sport life 44. How long did it take before you felt completely adjusted to the new demands and social roles outside professional rugby?

� 0-2 months

� 3-6 months

� 7-11 months

� 1-3 years

� Not yet completely adjusted How long has it been since you retired from professional rugby union?________________________

Very negative Very positive 45. How would you describe your general attitude to retirement from sport at this point? 1 2 3 4 5 46. Immediately after retiring from sport, did you have some activity to become involved in right away?

� Yes

� No

Not at all Very much 47. To what extent did you miss sport and the lifestyle of an athlete after you ended your career? 1 2 3 4 5 48. Did you feel after a while that you missed sport (e.g.) you thought about your sports career, achievements, the people from the world of sport, etc.)?

� Yes

� No Comments ___________________________________________________________________ 49. Are you still active in sport? If “No” continue with Q.50. Yes _________ No ___________ If “Yes” what do you do? 49.1 I work professionally in sport as a coach. Yes__________ No____________

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49.2 I work professionally in sport as a manager. Yes__________ No____________ 49.3 I work professionally in sport as a counsellor. Yes__________ No____________ 49.4 I work professionally in sport as a referee/official. Yes__________ No____________ 49.5 I work professionally in sport as a volunteer (e.g. part-time coaching, etc.). Please specify __________________________ Yes__________ No____________ 49.6 I now play as an amateur. Yes__________ No____________ 50. Do you still enjoy a public reputation because of your sports career?

� Yes

� No

Much less important to Much more important 51. How does your current post-sport life compare with your active sports career in terms of its importance for your personality? 1 2 3 4 5

Very dissatisfied to Very satisfied 52. In general, how satisfied are you with your post-sport life? 1 2 3 4 5

Very unsuccessfully to Successfully 53. In general, how did you cope with the adjustment to post-sport life? 1 2 3 4 5

Very important to Very unimportant

54. How important is the role of a former professional rugby player to you? 1 2 3 4 5

Completely agree Completely disagree 55. Is sport still the most important aspect of your life? 1 2 3 4 5

Counselling for retirement

56. Did you expect any psychological problems after your retirement from sport?

� Yes

� No If “Yes” what kind of problems did you expect? Specify:_____________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________

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57. If you were having hard and stressful times after retirement, who, if anyone, would you turn to for help? Check all that apply.

� Sports psychologist

� Counsellor/therapist

� Coach

� Physician

� Other sports-related expert (e.g. sport manager, physical therapist, etc.)

� Parents

� Partner

� Siblings

� Close friends

� No one

� Other __________________________________________________________________________ 58. How useful would you find the following services after sports retirement? Not Useful to Very Useful 58.1 Help in finding a new career or area of interest 1 2 3 4 5 58.2 Help in learning how to transfer your mental skills to a new career or area of interest 1 2 3 4 5 58.3 Help in building your confidence in post sport – life 1 2 3 4 5 58.4 Information on work and educational opportunities 1 2 3 4 5 58.5 Financial counselling 1 2 3 4 5 58.6 Assistance in finding a place to live 1 2 3 4 5 58.7 Assistance/guidance with medical and health care 1 2 3 4 5 58.8 Physiological and dietary detraining programme 1 2 3 4 5 58.9 Information on how other athletes have dealt with retirement 1 2 3 4 5 58.10 Workshops with other retired athletes to share and learn from each other’s experiences 1 2 3 4 5

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Retrospect 59. What are the most important things that you gained from your sports career? Rank the following by placing a number (5 = most important to 1 = least important) next to the aspect. Financial _____________ Fame_________________ Fitness________________ Friendships____________ Others _______________ Specify :___________________________________________________ 60. Would you recommend your children to follow a career similar to yours?

� Yes

� No

� Uncertain

� No children Thank you for your co-operation with completing this questionnaire.

Your answers will be kept in strict confidence and destroyed subsequently using cross-shredding. Should you desire at any stage to have your data removed from the sample at any stage their request will be adhered to

immediately.

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APPENDIX 2: INTERVIEW QUESTIONS

Questions are drawn from the following Marthinus, J.M., (2007) “Psychological effects of retirement in

elite athletes”.

Beginning the interview. Introductory remarks and demographics.

• How old were you when you began your athletic career?

• How old were you when you began playing rugby union?

• How old were you when you turned professional?

• What provincial clubs have you played for in Ireland?

• Have you ever played professional outside of Ireland?

• What got you into playing rugby union to begin with?

• Did you have an athletic hero?

• Who was that person and what made them a hero to you?

• What was the most important thing that kept you playing rugby all these years?

• What did you find most enjoyable about playing rugby?

• Can you outline at what levels you have played rugby? (Club/Provincial/International/Touring

sides)

• How long did your professional career last?

• For what reason did you retire? Voluntary / Involuntary. Deselection/Injury/Free choice.

Initiation (Training) stage.

• It is clear that you made a long-term commitment to sport and have achieved a high level in relation to

same. At what age did you begin your competitive sports career and how successful was it in the

initial stages?

• By choosing sport, you made a large commitment. What was your main goal when you began

participating in sport?

• By commitment to sport we mean “Your desire and determination to keep doing what you do best,

and that is keep on winning”. Were results important to you at the beginning and why?

• (Considering everything, both on and off the field, how much did you enjoy playing sport? (1-7 Likert

scale) 1 being not very much 7 being loved it.

• What valuable opportunities did you have taking part in sport? Travel/meeting people/job

opportunities.

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Maturity (Performance) stage.

• Thinking back to your first major competitive honour when you turned professional. Which was?

How did you feel, and what were you thinking about prior to the contest? How were you focused

during the performance?

• After that win did you begin to think about any other goals? If yes, what sort of goals?

• Did your life change in any way after your first big win? If yes, in what way? Did you experience

any additional demands? If yes, what sort of demands? What was the most stressful?

• Were you prepared to deal with these additional demands? How did you deal with them? What did

you find most effective? Did you have any assistance in preparing yourself to cope with them?

• Do you have any suggestions that might help other professional rugby union players who will face a

similar situation, to help them better prepare and cope with becoming or remaining a champion?

• Did you have any non-sport identities? What would be helpful for the athlete to broaden their social

identity/social support?

• Investing personal resources: What have you invested that you cannot recover if you leave sport?

• Did you feel a sense of obligation to keep competing because of the expectation of other people?

Whose expectations are most important to you? What expectations did these people have?

• Did you feel encouragement and support from other people? Whose encouragement and support

were most important to you? How did these people encourage and support your participation?

Anticipation (realisation of retirement) stage.

• Are you viewed as a former rugby player, who made a good investment in society, who did a good

job by working hard? Describe how you are being viewed by the public?

• Would you say that there was unwillingness on your side to plan for retirement?

• Was there any structure in place to help you with your post-sports-career development? If yes, can

you describe it?

• Do you feel that you have a lot to say, but no one to tell about your unresolved feelings/emotions

about retirement?

• Were there any unresolved feelings that were harmful to your mental well-being? How did you vent

your frustration?

• Did you have any support from your peers, close friends, club or province? Did you share your

thoughts with your peers?

• Describe your emotional distress, if any. Were there any therapeutic interventions?

• What was your coach’s role/obligation in your career termination?

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APPENDIX 3: DEMOGRAPHIC OF IRISH AND MUNSTER RUGBY PROFESSIONAL RUGBY TEAMS.

•

Team Surname First NameDate of

birthIreland

RepresentativeCommencement of

prefessional rugby careerCurrent

AgeAverage

Age

Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 O'Driscoll Brian 21/01/1979 Leinster 1999-2000 34Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 O'Callaghan Donnacha 24/03/1979 Munster 2002-2003 34Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 O'Connell Paul 20/10/1979 Munster 2001-2002 33Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Ross Mike 21/12/1979 Leinster 2008-2009 33Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 D'Arcy Gordan 10/02/1980 Leinster 1999 33Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Court Tom 06/11/1980 Ulster 2008 32Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Reading Eoin 20/11/1980 Leinster 2005-2006 32Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Downey James 23/03/1981 Munster 2012-2013 32Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 McCarthy Mike 27/11/1981 Connacht 2011 31Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Best Rory 15/08/1982 Ulster 2005 31Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Fitzpatrick Declan 12/07/1983 Ulster 2011 30Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Ryan Donnacha 11/12/1983 Munster 2008-2009 29Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Heaslip Jamie 15/12/1983 Leinster 2006 29Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Bowe Tommy 22/02/1984 Ulster 2004 29Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 McLaughlin Kevin 20/09/1984 Leinster 2009 28Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Henry Chris 17/10/1984 Ulster 2009 28Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Trimble Andrew 20/10/1984 Ulster 2005-2006 28Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Tuohy Dan 18/01/1985 Ulster 2009-2010 28Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Sexton Jonathan 11/07/1985 Leinster 2009-2010 28Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Marshall Paul 26/07/1985 Ulster 2012 28Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Ferris Steve 02/08/1985 Ulster 2006 28Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Strauss Richardt 29/01/1986 Leinster 2012-2013 27Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Kearney Rob 26/03/1986 Leinster 2006 27Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Bent Michael 25/04/1986 Leinster 2012-2013 27Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Cronin Sean 06/05/1986 Leinster 2009 27Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 McFadden Fergus 17/06/1986 Leinster 2010 27Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Toner Devin 29/06/1986 Leinster 2010-2011 27Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 O'Brien Sean 14/02/1987 Leinster 2009 26Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Cave Darren 05/04/1987 Ulster 2008 26Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Hagan Jamie 15/04/1987 Connacht 2012 26Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 O'Donnell Tommy 21/05/1987 Munster 2012-2013 26Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Jones Felix 05/08/1987 Leinster 2011 26Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Fitzgerald Luke 13/09/1987 Leinster 2006 25Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Earls Keith 02/10/1987 Munster 2008-2009 25Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Healy Cian 07/10/1987 Leinster 2009 25Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Archer Stephen 29/01/1988 Munster 2012-2013 25Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Sherry Mike 18/06/1988 Munster 2012-2013 25Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Kilcoyne Dave 14/12/1988 Munster 2012 24Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Madigan Ian 21/03/1989 Leinster 2012 24Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Murray Connor 20/04/1989 Munster 2011 24Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 O'Mahony Peter 17/09/1989 Munster 2011-2012 23Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Zebo Simon 16/03/1990 Munster 2011-2012 23Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Boss Isaac 19/04/1990 Ulster 2005 23Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Marshall Luke 03/03/1991 Ulster 2012 22Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Gilroy Craig 11/03/1991 Ulster 2012 22Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Jackson Paddy 05/01/1992 Ulster 2012 21Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Marmion Kieran 11/02/1992 Connacht 2013 21Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Henderson Iain 21/02/1992 Ulster 2012 21Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Olding Stuart 11/03/1993 Ulster 2012-2013 20Ireland Senior Team 2012-2013 Henshaw Robbie 12/06/1993 Connacht 2012 20 26

Data compiled from databases found at:

• Irish Squads:

{http://www.irishrugb

y.ie/squads/index.php

}

{http://www.irishrugb

y.ie/squads/ireland_u2

0.php}

• Munster Squads :

{http://www.munsterr

ugby.ie/rugby/squadpr

ofiles.php}


ugby.ie/rugby/munster

_a_squad.php}


ugby.ie/rugby/academ

yprofiles.php}

110 | P a g e


birthIreland



AgeAverage

Age

Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 O'Callaghan Donnacha 24/03/1979 Ireland Senior 01/08/1998 34Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 O'Connell Paul 20/10/1979 Ireland Senior 01/08/2001 33Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Botha BJ 04/01/1980 South Africa 01/09/2011 33Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Coughlan James 09/12/1980 Ireland 7's 01/01/2006 32Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Downey James 23/03/1981 Ireland Senior 01/09/2006 32Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Laulala Casey 03/05/1982 New Zealand 01/09/2012 31Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Ronan Niall 14/09/1982 Ireland Senior 01/09/2007 30Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Varley Damien 29/10/1983 Ireland Senior 01/05/2005 29Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Ryan Donnacha 11/12/1983 Ireland Senior 01/09/2004 29Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Hurley Gerry 16/05/1984 Ireland Club 01/08/2007 29Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Hurley Denis 15/07/1984 Ireland Senior 01/05/2006 29Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Murphy Johne 10/11/1984 Ireland Wolfhound 01/09/2010 28Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Holland Billy 03/08/1985 Ireland U21 01/09/2007 28Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Williams Duncan 17/04/1986 Ireland U21 01/12/2009 27Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Cotter Alan 23/09/1986 Ireland Schools 03/05/2012 26Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 O'Mahony Barry 26/09/1986 Ireland Club 01/09/2012 26Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Keatley Ian 01/04/1987 Ireland Senior 01/09/2011 26Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 O'Donnell Tommy 21/05/1987 Ireland Youth 01/09/2007 26Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Dineen Ivan 25/07/1987 Ireland U19 01/01/2010 26Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Jones Felix 05/08/1987 Ireland Senior 01/09/2009 26Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Earls Keith 02/10/1987 Ireland Senior 01/04/2007 25Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Archer Stephen 29/01/1988 Ireland Senior 01/10/2009 25Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Foley Dave 16/05/1988 Ireand U19 01/04/2010 25Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Sherry Mike 18/06/1988 Ireland U19 01/12/2009 25Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Ryan John 02/08/1988 Ireland Club 01/09/2011 25Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Nagle Ian 07/10/1988 Ireland A 01/03/2010 24Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 O'Callaghan Dave 17/10/1988 Ireland A 01/03/2010 24Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Kilcoyne Dave 14/12/1988 Ireland Senior 01/12/2011 24Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Murray Connor 24/04/1989 Ireland Senior 01/04/2010 24Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 O'Mahony Ronan 28/05/1989 Ireand U20 03/05/2013 24Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 O'Mahony Peter 17/09/1989 Ireland Senior 01/01/2010 23Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Dougall Sean 28/10/1989 Ireland U19 01/09/2012 23Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 O'Dea Luke 18/01/1990 Ireland Youth 01/01/2011 23Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Zebo Simon 16/03/1990 Ireland Senior 01/04/2010 23Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Stander C.J 05/04/1990 No 25/11/2012 23Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Casey Duncan 14/11/1990 Ireland U20 01/01/2012 22Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Cronin James 23/11/1990 No 01/04/2013 22Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Butlre Paddy 01/12/1990 Ireland U20 01/12/2010 22Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Bohane Cian 26/01/1991 No 01/05/2013 22Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Conway Andrew 11/07/1991 Ireland U20 03/05/2013 22Munster 1st XV Squad 2013-2014 Hanrahan J.J 27/07/1992 Ireland U20 08/09/2012 21 26

111 | P a g e


birthIreland



AgeAverage

Age

Munster A Squad 2012 -2013 Condon Christy 23/10/1981 Ireland Club 11/11/2011 31Munster A Squad 2012 -2013 Henry Sean 16/12/1987 No 01/09/2010 25Munster A Squad 2012 -2013 Donnellan Phillip 10/09/1988 Ireland Club 01/01/2011 24Munster A Squad 2012 -2013 Deasy Scott 11/10/1988 No 20/11/2009 24Munster A Squad 2012 -2013 Sheridan Cathal 14/11/1988 No 11/12/2010 24Munster A Squad 2012 -2013 Byrnes Danny 17/10/1989 Ireland U20 18/04/2010 23Munster A Squad 2012 -2013 Moroney Darren 31/08/1990 No 19/11/2011 22Munster A Squad 2012 -2013 Hayes Brian 25/09/1990 Ireland U20 22/02/2011 22Munster A Squad 2012 -2013 Hircock Corey 20/01/1991 No 21/01/2011 22Munster A Squad 2012 -2013 Holland Johnny 30/08/1991 No 19/11/2011 21Munster A Squad 2012 -2013 Scanlan Niall 08/04/1992 Ireland U20 01/01/2012 21Munster A Squad 2012 -2013 Buckley Shane 14/04/1992 Ireland U20 17/12/2011 21Munster A Squad 2012 -2013 Haugh Brian 14/01/1993 No 01/01/2012 20Munster A Squad 2012 -2013 Murphy Ryan 05/03/1993 Ireland U18 01/11/2012 20Munster A Squad 2012 -2013 Sweetnam Darren 05/05/1993 Ireland U20 18/01/2013 20Munster A Squad 2012 -2013 O'Donghue Jack 08/04/1994 Ireland U20 01/01/2012 19 22Munster A Squad 2012 -2013 Mullane Richie No 20/10/2012

112 | P a g e


birthIreland



AgeAverage

Age

Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 McGrath Luke 03/02/1993 Leinster 2011-2012 20Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 Panter Dave 03/02/1993 Connacht 2012-2013 20Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 Caufield Jake 07/02/1993 Ulster 2012-2013 20Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 McCarty Sean 12/02/1993 Munster 2012-2013 20Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 Donnan John 16/02/1993 Ulster 2012-2013 20Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 Murphy Ryan 05/03/1993 Munster 2012-2013 20Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 Scott Brian 09/03/1993 Leinster 2012-2013 20Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 Olding Stuart 11/03/1993 Ulster 2011-2012 20Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 Taylor Chris 11/03/1993 Ulster 2012-2013 20Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 Creighton John 20/03/1993 Ulster 2012-2013 20Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 O'Meara Alex 23/03/1993 Exile 2012-2013 20Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 McGuigan George 30/03/1993 Exile 2012-2013 20Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 Scholes Rory 23/04/1993 Ulster 2012-2013 20Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 Van der Flier Josh 25/04/1993 Leinster 2011-2012 20Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 Sweetnam Darren 05/05/1993 Munster 2012-2013 20Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 Andrew John 26/05/1993 Ulster 2012-2013 20Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 Joyce Connor 05/07/1993 Ulster 2012-2013 20Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 Daly Tom 31/07/1993 Leinster 2012-2013 20Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 Thronbury Gavin 19/10/1993 Leinster 2012-2013 19Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 Crosbie Steve 10/12/1993 Leinster 2012-2013 19Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 Scannell Rory 22/12/1993 Munster 2012-2013 19Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 Timmins Peadar 08/01/1994 Leinster 2012-2013 19Ireland Under 20 2012-2013 Dooley Peter 04/08/1994 Leinster 2012-2013 19 19

113 | P a g e


birthIreland



AgeAverage

Age

Munster Academy 2013-2014 O'Shea Darren 12/12/1992 Ireland U20 2013 20Munster Academy 2013-2014 McCarthy Sean 12/02/1993 Ireland U20 2012 20Munster Academy 2013-2014 McNulty Harry 05/03/1993 No 2012 20Munster Academy 2013-2014 Horan Niall 21/04/1993 Ireland U19 2011 20Munster Academy 2013-2014 Scannell Rory 22/12/1993 Ireland U20 2011 19Munster Academy 2013-2014 Madigan John 01/09/1994 Ireland U18 2011 18Munster Academy 2013-2014 O'Shea Greg 23/03/1995 Ireland U18 2012 18Munster Academy 2013-2014 Lyons Gearoid 13/04/1995 Ireland U18 2012 18Munster Academy 2013-2014 Cullen Jack 26/05/1995 Ireland U18 2012 18 19Munster Academy 2013-2014 Johnson David Ireland U19 2012

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APPENDIX 4: ETHICAL CLEARANCE

From: Mairead.Breathnach [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: 02 July 2012 22:48

To: Todd Fitzgerald

Cc: Michelle.Cunningham; Jean.McCarthy

Subject: RE: KBSREC - June 2012 - BA HRM - Thomas Fitzgerald UL Student ID 11107545

Dear Thomas,

Thank you for your email and earlier clarification. I am happy to grant research ethics approval.

Regards,

Mairead

From: Todd Fitzgerald [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Mon 02/07/2012 22:21

To: 'Todd Fitzgerald'; Mairead.Breathnach



Mairead,

My apologies for bothering you again. I was just wondering if with my agreement to the changes that

you have suggested whether or not I have attained the ethical clearance to proceed with my FYP, or

am I to await further instructions on the matter.

Regards

Todd


Sent: 19 June 2012 17:05

To: 'Mairead.Breathnach'

Cc: 'Michelle.Cunningham'; 'Jean.McCarthy'


Mairead,

Duly noted. I think given the scope of my research – there will be no need to identify which province

they are from – as my findings will concentrate on the effects of retirement on the individuals

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themselves – and I need not concern myself in this research with how these effects differ depending

on which province they may have found themselves representing.

Again should you require any further clarification on this matter or any other, please feel free to

contact me. I appreciate your patience in this regard.

Regards

Todd

From: Mairead.Breathnach [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: 19 June 2012 15:48

To: Todd Fitzgerald



Dear Thomas,

Thank you for your email. The KBS Research Ethics Committee recommendations were made so

that the information given by informants would not allow them to be identified. If you intend to

interview two individuals from each province, and identify them as coming from a particular

province, how will you ensure anonymity and confidentiality?

Regards,

Mairead


Sent: 19 June 2012 10:17

To: Michelle.Cunningham; ULStudent:THOMAS.FITZGERALD

Cc: Jean.McCarthy; Mairead.Breathnach


Miss Breathnach,

Further to the recommendations of the ethics committee – please note my agreement to same;

You are requested to ensure that information given by informants will not allow them to be

identified. – Agreed.

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You are also requested to clarify what the sample size of the survey will be. – Assuming co-

operation from IRUPA – the Irish Rugby Union Players Association of Ireland – the maximum

sample for the questionnaire would appear to be 140 – this is the reported figure of the number of

retired Professional Rugby Union players in Ireland. It would be my desire to send the questionnaire

to as many of these players as possible. As regards the interviews – 8 is my sample size – I am hoping

to take 2 from each province - as I believe that the different provincial set ups (like different

employers) might allow a further insight into the effects of retirement on these players.

The following amendments have also been recommended on the phrasing of questions to ensure that

informants cannot be identified:

a. Age – use age categories as opposed to specific age. – Agreed.

b. Current occupation – rugby related or not rugby related. - Agreed

c. Level of education – 2nd level or 3rd level. - Agreed

I thank you for your prompt attention to my request. Should you require any further information

please do not hesitate to contact me.

I will not commence any interviews or submission of questionnaires until such that time as you may

fully validate my research proposal.

Regards

Thomas Fitzgerald UL Student ID 11107545

From: Michelle.Cunningham [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: 19 June 2012 09:07

To: ULStudent:THOMAS.FITZGERALD; [email protected]

Cc: Jean.McCarthy; Mairead.Breathnach

Subject: KBSREC - June 2012 - BA HRM - Thomas Fitzgerald

Dear Thomas,

Many thanks for your research ethics application which was reviewed by the KBS Research Ethics

Committee on the12th June. The Committee has made the following recommendations:

You are requested to ensure that information given by informants will not allow them to be

identified.

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You are also requested to clarify what the sample size of the survey will be.

The following amendments have also been recommended on the phrasing of questions to ensure that

informants cannot be identified:

d. Age – use age categories as opposed to specific age.

e. Current occupation – rugby related or not rugby related.

f. Level of education – 2nd level or 3rd level.

Please reply to Mairead Breathnach, Acting Chair, KBS Research Ethics Committee at

[email protected] before Friday, 22nd June confirming the acceptance of the above

recommendations.

Kind regards

Michelle

Michelle Cunningham


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APPENDIX 5: INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPTS

APPENDIX 5.1 - PARTICIPANT 1

So I will try not to reference you by name right just so.

So how old were you when you began your athletic career?

I suppose I started playing rugby at twelve years of age but am, I suppose kinda serious rugby I

suppose was when I was sixteen, seventeen you know.

Ok and how old were you when you played rugby union I suppose seventeen.

Yeah, yeah.

And how old were you when you turned professional?

Am I was twenty one I think, twenty I think it was actually yeah.

Ok and what provincial clubs have you played for in Ireland?

Just for Munster.

And have you ever played professionally outside of Ireland?

No.

What got you into playing Rugby Union to begin with?

Am my brother really, influence from my brother and going into secondary school, the secondary

school I was in started to play rugby you know I would have been from a GAA background really

you know.

And did you have any athletic hero’s or rugby hero’s?

Am yeah, XXX would have been a rugby hero of mine I suppose when I started getting into rugby

you know. Obviously he was in the same position as me and an Irish player as well you know.

And sorry and what was the most important thing that kept you playing rugby all these years?

Am I just loved the game just loved, I loved everything about it you know, I loved, I suppose the

contact and the scoring trys and ah I suppose the excitement of it but everything that surrounded it

outside the pitch as well you know the friends you make and stuff like that so it was pretty, it was

pretty much the whole package you know.

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And what do you find most enjoyable about playing rugby?

I suppose the progression am I would have always had targets to maybe play for Irish schools when I

was starting out and moving up along the ladder I suppose I always described it as the ladder and sort

of playing for representative rugby at every age group which I was lucky enough to do. I played Irish

Schools, Munster Schools, Irish schools, Munster Twenties, Ireland 21’s and then Ireland A and then

Ireland Senior. So it was like a progression for me and I really enjoyed hitting those targets every

time you know.

And you played at all levels?

Yeah.

And how long did your career last?

Am my professional career was 14 years.

And the reason you retired was involuntary, it was injury?

No, not injury no, just felt it was time. I was offered another year but I just didn’t feel it was feasible

for me to be keep playing you know and it was time to move on and start something else I think you

know.

Ok.

So just to go to the initiation the kinda training stage. It is clear that you made a long term

commitment to sport and have achieved a high level in relation to same. At what age did you

begin your competitive sports career and how successful was it in the initial stages?

I suppose my professional or my serious first career I suppose started with XXX I was probably

seventeen years of age and ah I got involved with a great XXX team at the time but we had success

straight away with they won XXX and then from there as I said with this progression thing I made it

into the Munster Team which was a great Munster Team and we had great success all the way through

it. So I mean all through my career I experienced great success I suppose with disappointment too but

it was always a driving force to do more and I think that was, that was what kept me so interested in it

as well I think you know.

By choosing sport you made a large commitment. What was your main goal when you began


Well I suppose I started, when I started the professional side of it didn’t really come into it, I just

really enjoyed it but I suppose my main goal as I said earlier was just about getting to the next level

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every time you know and trying to get onto Irish Teams and play at the highest level as a I could and

my aim I suppose was always to play for Ireland and I did that back in 2000 which was great you

know.

So even if you had not gone professional you think you would have continued playing rugby

throughout?

Ah I think so yeah, it was just, that was the driving force for me before any of the money side of

things came into it you know and I suppose a lot of us at the time didn’t realise that you could make a

good living out of it you know so that was my driving force I suppose trying to get to the next level

you know.

Yeah. By commitment to sport. “We mean your desire and determination to keep doing what

you do best, and that is to keep on winning”. Were results important to you at the beginning

and why?

Am, I suppose, yeah, I suppose at the beginning because I got involved with a very successful XXX

team and a successful Munster team as well subsequently, I suppose winning was always a big, big

part of it and I suppose it wasn’t so much a pressure but I think it was more a high standard that was

set and I was always trying to achieve that really you know.

And was that a standard that was set by yourself or set by the club that you were involved in?

I think it was set by the group that was there involved you know. I think when you taste a certain

amount of success you want to keep it going and ah the standards each year were being raised I think

you know.

And was that just from the hunger that you had yourselves or was it the fact that as the game

was now getting more and more professional that there was a bit more pressure to perform but

at the same time the results were actually leading to better results for yourselves?

Yeah. I think it was a hunger for us and I remember being back at XXX you know XXX and I

suppose you set a new goal after each one and the hunger was always there for to do stuff and maybe

the Munster thing was a bit different we had success to a certain degree, we got to Heineken Cup

Finals and had bitter disappointment in losing those and our driving force there was the hunger to

actually win one which we got in 2006 you know which was probably a long time coming but you

know we always look for something to motivate us even if it was whether it was defeat or victory

there was always some way of motivating yourself you know.

And say from the accolades that you have won then is there any one which stands out as?

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Yeah, I suppose the big one for me would be the Grand Slam. I mean the Heineken Cups were

massive because we were on such a journey for them but I suppose for me as a young lad the Grand

Slam, even the sound of it was just ah just a great thing and am you know Triple Crown was sorta the

medium success that we had and we had a couple of those but the Grand Slam was something I

always wanted right from being a kid even before I understood rugby I suppose just from watching it

on TV so to win that I think was extremely special you know.

Considering everything both on and off the field how much did you enjoy playing sport? (1 not

being very much and 7 loved it).

7.

What valuable opportunities did you have taking part in sport? Travel/Meeting People/Job

Opportunities.

Yeah, I mean the travel was just unbelievable. I have seen parts of the world that I would never have

dreamed of going to you know am, I have been to Japan and Tonga and Samoa and you know just

places that you just wouldn’t think of going as a, you know if you were just working in a normal job

and just having been around there and met so many different people as well is a special gift that we

got out of the game too you know and you know I think more so since I have retired now as well the

people side of it, the people I would have played against and I suppose in a professional game we

would not have much time to socialise with our opposition but I think since I have retired now I have

probably gotten in touch with more guys that I did when I was playing and ah that is the side of rugby

that I really like. Guys look out for each other as well you know.

Yeah, I think that is part, just in relation to the project that I am doing is that rugby has this

family kinda element to it and I suppose given some of the very serious injuries that can happen

on the team that it is very important that, that is, but I suppose in some of the stuff that has

been written is that professionalism grew so fast that the family spirit to a degree couldn’t keep

up with because I suppose when it started people didn’t really know how to kind of mesh the

two because professionalism seems more like it’s a job and the family side of it then is kinda put

your arms around so I suppose that seems to be one of the elements that is causing a bit of

concern as well in relation to it insofar as trying to keep onto that family kinda element to it at

the same time it had to move to a professional level where you know maybe you had to have a

chat with somebody to say you weren’t selected or stuff like that’s just kinda the part of the

issue that does seem to be coming out of it as well.

Exactly yeah.

122 | P a g e

Just on your performance stage. Thinking back to your first major competitive honour when

you turned professional what was that?

Am, I suppose am, I suppose getting capped for Ireland I suppose is probably the first one you know.

Ok and how did you feel and what were you thinking about prior to the contest?

Am, I felt very proud and I got capped over in the XXX on a tour of the XXX and I suppose I felt it

was kind of bitter sweet because I had no family there to see it and ah but am it was still very special

to me and ah at the time there was a lot of my teammates from XXXX who were on the Irish team at

the time so that was kinda special and a good memory that I have you know of the boys being over

there and they were very ah supportive of me you know for that day and yeah it is a special day in any

players career I think getting capped for their country.

After that win did you begin to think of any other goals?

Yeah, I suppose the one thing straight away was to try and see when and where I was going to get the

next cap from and I suppose the joke at the time was about being a one cap wonder and never playing

again but as it turned out I didn’t get capped again for another XXX years I think which was a bit of a,

or a XXX maybe but ah it was a bit, yeah that was a bit worrying but ah you know that’s the driving

force to try and get back there and play again you know and I ended up getting a lot more than that so

it was, it was good in the end you know.

You ended up with about, how many caps?

XX caps yeah.

Did your life change in anyway after the cap?

Am, yeah it did and I suppose it was more my naivety about rugby because I would not have had a

huge rugby background but am when I came back I suppose my club XXX were just so proud of

what I had achieved in my ah, my picture goes up on the wall in the clubhouse and I suppose the pride

that some of the Club Members had for the fact that I got it, it really was hammered home to me then

that , you know that this was pretty special and I suppose the fact that I was so new to the sport that

was you know really a wakeup call for me that you know I had done something special and there was

a lot of people very proud of that so you know I think I learned along the way how important these

things were for clubs and for people that you are involved with you know.

So you, throughout all your caps then you were always very proud that it was on the back of

your start with XXX say your..

123 | P a g e

Exactly yeah, and say when I came back to the club for that first one you realise you know that they

took such pride out of the fact that I was there and that meant a lot to me and obviously I didn’t

underestimate the effort that they put into me you know.

Did you experience any additional demands after?

Yeah, I suppose after getting capped I was, I was, I got offers from English Clubs to join them and

stuff like that and I suppose it was set up nicely for me with XXX playing for Munster and there was

talk there that I wouldn’t get a game there for a long time and I suppose the temptation was to leave

but something just said inside me that it wasn’t the right thing to do that I needed to bide my time with

Munster and ah it was the best decision that I think I ever made was just to stay you know because I

did, I did travel to England to meet these people and you know was in talks with them but I don’t

know I trust my instincts and I think I made the right one you know.

Were there any very stressful demands placed on you?

Ah, not really, I think I would have been sheltered from a lot of it because of the more senior guys

there. I would have been, I was always, I suppose the young guy in the squad and you know I had the

experienced guys around me that just made sure that all that stuff was taken care of and I think that is

one of the things about rugby, they can spot when a guy needs a bit of help like that. Some guys can

handle stuff a lot better than others but am you know I would have been sheltered from a lot of that

stuff and I think that helped a lot in my career you know.

When you say sheltered was that through the players just individually or was it through say the

likes of Munster Rugby. I don’t think IRUPA would have been established

No, No it would have been more from the players and again I would have been lucky that a lot of the

players in the Munster team at the time would have been from XXX as well and I suppose that would

have helped hugely in making, making the path easier for me you know and I think that would have

been both on and off the pitch as well because I think when a guy gets a cap like that for Ireland he

might be a bit of a target when he is playing a club game or something so it was always good to know

that I had those senior guys watching my back you know.

How were you prepared to deal with additional demands, had you any training or that to say?

Yeah, I was involved with the Academy. One of the big things was dealing with the press because

obviously if you play a big game and you have done well the press want to talk to you after a game

and it is not something that any of us would have been prepared for but am with the Academy that I

was involved in there was a few I suppose classes with how to deal with the press and we actually did

speak to a few Journalists as well just in a casual sense to find out. That was very helpful and I

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suppose when you are around guys that are going it a lot as well you can pick up things or two and

that was kinda helpful too you know.

Say when moving to the professional side did you have any assistance in relation to say

contracts wise and stuff like that or did you put a lot of trust in the?

Yeah, no it was very basic, I think my first one I would have done it for a fiver you know but ah.

I am not asking you for figures now.

No, no but it was a case, it was a case of bite their hand off just to play rugby as a professional but ah

to be honest I’d say it took me a while to wise up to that situation. I think the powers that be probably

played on that a fair bit as well and yeah probably played on the fact that we were home grown

players and wanted to stay in Ireland too so the money would have sort of reflected that and in a sense

you know going abroad would have turned up a lot more problems than it would have solved so I

think it was a case of trying to be smart about it and that’s when I suppose later on down the line

agents came into it you know. I would have got an agent to negotiate for me and ah you know it

would have taken away that awkwardness of me having to negotiate you know.

Did you think some of that, say the naivety as you put it there, did that come from the fact

maybe that to a lot of people at that stage professionalism was so new in the game that there

wasn’t an awful lot of people very experienced in the game?

Ah, that was it yeah. I mean to put a value on a player back then I think it was just picking a number

out of the sky and putting it out in front of you and I suppose coupled that with the fact that we

wanted to play for Munster and we wanted to stay there wasn’t a huge amount of negotiation about

the early days and about the early figures but ah I think you know it went two ways. Some guys got a

bit greedy and asked for a bit more than they should have and ah you know, and that was no fault of

their own, they had nothing to go off I think really and it was tough at that time I think starting out in

anything like that is always tough but I think it is very different now.

And did the likes of IRUPA and stuff help players out with that and Agents and stuff?

Yeah, I think in later years when IRUPA was set up it did start coming into it and I think there was a

lot of resistance towards IRUPA from the IRFU but I think it was important and they realised that it is

important now that players have a voice in that side of things because if you still look at it I mean that

naivety is still there it just because the game has moved on the naivety is still there because you still

have young guys coming in and they don’t know how the thing operates and they are just I suppose,

Agents then as well you have to be careful with them because some of them are out for one thing

really you know.

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You still think the desire for some of the younger players coming through still clouds like,

probably when you yourself started first and signed a contract for a fiver because you were so

eager just to ....

Yeah, Its not there as much I think it’s nearly gone the other way now where young kids and their

parents are coming in thinking right you can make a huge career out of this so I think people have a

clouded judgement on what is there and what can be earned. You know it is not true that every player

is making a huge amount of money. Some of the bigger names are doing really well for themselves

but you know you make a good living but nothing that you can retire on and I think once guys realise

that, it is a bit of a sobering thought when you think the majority of players in a squad aren’t as

cleaning up as they think so, ah, I think guys are coming in with a very different attitude towards it

maybe to a few years ago but you still have that small bit of naivety there as well and it is probably

gone the other way now you know.

When you started you were in college previously so you have a qualification to fall back on. I

am not a 100% sure about the newer players coming through the Academy but I imagine they

are nearly professional nearly before at the age most people are going to college. Is that the

case?

To be honest they have a much better system there now I think. The Academy allows the guys to

finish their college courses and the majority of them are getting through them whether they are

extending the time they are doing it or some guys can just get them done but I am just finding at the

moment that there are a lot of guys that are just finishing their college courses while they are still

playing and am, you know it is hugely beneficial for them in the sense that it takes the pressure off

them you know, they know then that they can go once they get the qualification they can go gung ho

at the rugby and give it a go for maybe 2 years, 3 years and if it is a success for them well and good

they get a career out of it and if not they know they have something to fall back on and I think both

the IRFU, the Academy and IRUPA have really emphasised that with young lads that they try and do

that. Now the majority of guys are trying to do it but we obviously have a couple of guys there that

just want to be playing rugby and they don’t have the time for that sort of thing so you know it is

trying to get those other guys to do something in the meantime is huge you know.

But it is something that the authorities say the likes of IRUPA and them are kind of trying to

get....

Yeah, I think big time some of the Academy’s programmes are designed around their college courses

and ah they encourage the guys to get out and study and ah make sure that they have a good balance

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there you know. Ok, I suppose it was one of the things I would have had is that maybe the people who

were coming through now were very, they wouldn’t have been as well equipped say as the lads that

were going through the Academy now say they are obviously on top of that kind of thing now as well.

Do you have any suggestions that might help other professional Rugby Unions players who will

be facing a similar situation to help them prepare better and cope with becoming or remaining a

champion?

Am, I suppose it is all about setting targets, I mean am I think for us, I suffered, I suppose we had

great victories in our day with XXX and we kept coming back for more which is great you know you

are setting targets and ah obviously with Munster we had some bitter defeats as well and we came

back from them so to be able to come back from both is a true test of ah of the player and of the group

I think it’s, I think funnily enough it’s probably easier to come back from a defeat and to try and am,

to try and win again I think that is always the driving force but coming back after a victory is ah, is

probably even harder because you can go a bit soft I think after winning a championship and I think

you know that is probably one of the biggest things I would suggest to players is to try find some way

of motivating yourself after those two situations you know.

Did you have any non-sporting identities insofar as when you were playing rugby was it all

consuming for you or, do you know how helpful is it for athletes to broaden their social identity

or their support base?

Yeah, I suppose I did try and while I was still playing I took up a couple of courses, a couple of

college courses and I just found it something efficient for me to have something outside of rugby. I

think it is hugely important and I suppose a lot of years I got involved in a charity and in, you know

it’s great for me I suppose to have something else outside of it and especially with the charity side of

things. It was important for me to use my image maybe to help them and in some small way and I

thought that was very beneficial but yeah I think rugby players are in a privileged position now and

they can offer so much to the community. You know they are held in such high regard and I think it

is a two way street they obviously benefit from being associated with a rugby player but I think for the

rugby players it’s a huge personal satisfaction from helping people and you also make connections in

business and learn a bit about the world outside of rugby as well which is valuable for you when you

do leave the rugby fraternity you know.

What have you invested in rugby that you cannot recover if you leave the sport?

I suppose I have invested a huge amount of time and I sacrificed a lot of time with family and friends

that I will never get back I suppose. You know there was a lot of family occasions that I missed

because of rugby and there was a lot of nights out with friends that I had to turn down because of you

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know, I had to prepare myself right for games and you know things that, I have sat around tables with

people that they reminisce about and I don’t know what went on in those days so that has been tough I

think but I think the reward I have got from doing that from making those sacrifices has been huge

and I know that those same people got great satisfaction out of those days out that we had too but no

there was definitely a huge amount of sacrifice and time, personal time and am you will never get that

back really you know.

Do you feel a sense of obligation to keep competing because of the expectation of other people?

Yeah, I think so, I think what we created with Munster was pretty huge and ah you know this thing

that we have about to qualifying out of our group every year for Heineken Cup was something that

was maybe a weight around our necks more than anything else. It was a great motivator too but the

expectation of our supporters was huge and you do feel obligated to be performing well and

competing well for these things and I think you know you can probably see it as a negative but I think

it was very much a positive thing you know.

Whose expectations are most important to you?

I suppose my teammates was the prime one because I suppose you never want to let them down I

suppose and I suppose 14 years in a club and you grow up with most of these guys and you know you

feel like, you feel like you owe them something and I think that was a huge motivation for us the fact

that we were with each other for so long you never want to let those guys down and that was part of

that I think you know.

Did you feel encouragement and support from other people?

Yeah, without a doubt I think we knew how much Munster meant to people around us and I think you

know their whole year revolves around Munster games and stuff like that and that was never lost on

us. I think we realise the sacrifices people make to go and watch us and support us around Europe

and I suppose the encouragement they gave us obviously the big slaps on the back but you know

when you see people forking out money am, to go and travel and watch us that was huge

encouragement for us too you know and especially when we were having bad days we would remind

ourselves of that and realise that those people were there to help us you know.

So, their encouragement was the most important was it?

Yeah, I think so, the fans yeah.

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So, just in relation to the retirement. Are you viewed as a formal rugby player who made a

good investment in society, who did a good job by working hard?

Ah, that’s a tough one to answer from my point of view. Yeah, I think I would be. I think I would be

associated with a successful Munster team, a successful XXX team, a successful Irish team and I have

played my part in that you know. You know, yeah, I would like to think that that is the way it would

be I think am looking from my own family, I think they have travelled to places that they would never

have done only for what rugby brought for us and they have experienced great days that we wouldn’t

have done only for the rugby. So yeah, I think it has contributed someway you know.

Would you say there was unwillingness on your side to plan for retirement?

Am, yeah, I would think so. I think there was a certain part of me that did not want to admit that it

was coming you know. I think I immersed myself in IRUPA and I did help a lot of guys who were

heading that way and I never, I suppose I never took the time to do it for myself funnily enough and

you know I look back on it now and I was probably thinking that it would stay going forever you

know. I suppose, I did retire this year but I was hoping to do another year and you know we made the

decision eventually that it wasn’t the right thing for me to do but you know yeah, I think there was

subconsciously maybe that I didn’t want to admit it and that’s kind of the hard thing about it I suppose

is that you kind of, I should’ve given myself more time while I was playing and ah part of you then

was thinking Jesus did I give too much to rugby and not enough for myself and that kind of thing but

ah that’s just the way its fallen from me you know.

So just given the fact that you were involved in IRUPA and you had seen it nearly up close and

personal and yet you still didn’t want to face it. I imagine there are some of the players who

weren’t as involved on that side of it must be even more difficult for them then as they really ....

Yeah, yeah I think a lot of us think we are invincible and I suppose you know especially the feeling

when you are out playing in Thomond Park you just think this is never going to end I suppose and

then suddenly some guys I suppose with injuries and stuff can feel just like that, just in the split of the

moment it’s all over you know and ah I suppose mine was a bit more gradual and yeah you get

frustrated I suppose the fact that you didn’t do something about it you know but yeah that’s just the

way its fallen and you gotta deal with it now as it comes you know.

Given the fact that rugby is such a physical sport is the fact that having to admit retirement and

it’s somewhat of an emotional thing, does that play a part do you think because are people

afraid to admit ....

Yeah, they think you are showing weakness yeah. It’s a macho sport, there is egos there the whole

time and you know I will be sitting there watching games now and I think, I will be thinking I could

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do a better job than the guys there but that is just a natural way things are and it is, it’s an ego thing

and it’s like someone telling you, look you are not good enough anymore and you never want to

accept that like but I think when you weigh up other parts of your life and like I have family at home.

I have XXXX kids and that’s hugely important for me now and I don’t think I would have the

experiences with my kids if I was busy with rugby with the travel that’s involved in it and the

commitment that’s involved in it so I have weighed all of that up and this is definitely the right time

for me to leave it you know and get on with other things.

Was there any structure in place to help you with your post-sports career development?

Yeah, there was with IRUPA there was obviously career guidance there and people to talk to and

again probably left it very late to talk to them but again I suppose as I was in negotiations with the

contract I felt I was going to go another year so the plan wasn’t at all for this season ahead that I

would be preparing myself for retirement but it didn’t work that way and I suppose it was a year early

in my head that retirement came you know.

Given that the retirement then was on say, on your terms say for want of a better expression

players whose careers are ended by injury say just through one thing or another it must be even

more difficult for them then because while you admit that you could have made the, spent a bit

more time in it people’s careers that end at a very early age, it must be tougher for them then do

you think because they can’t plan it because obviously they ...

No, look it’s tough I have seen guys that have had promising careers that they have had to give up

because of injury and look I am blessed because I can walk away from the game, I can play other

sports I can go do other things and run and play with the kids without any problems so I am blessed

with that but I don’t know there is a two way thing there with young players I think the younger you

are when you retire obviously if from an injury it is really tough to deal with but I think guys can get

over that and I think younger guys are that bit more resilient and you know they are still young and

they can still start a completely new career and you know there is a couple of ways of looking at it and

in that sense I think it’s a very personal thing. I think some guys react differently to different things

and that’s, I think it is important for the powers that be that they can see who needs more help than

others and I think that’s what the career guidance and development stuff is done in IRUPA you know.

When you say the powers that be do you, there is no good relationship between the IRFU and

IRUPA.

Yeah, It is improving, it’s improving. I still think it’s still a business and the IRFU interest in players

after they finish is still fairly minimal and I think it is important to try and get back to the family way.

I think back in the day when a rugby player got injured with a club and he couldn’t work they would

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have rallied around and had a fundraiser for him. You know and I think I am not expecting the IRFU

to do that for fellas but that same sort of feeling has to be there in some way. I think you know it is

still a business for them but I think we are very different to other businesses and you know when guys

commit so much to a company, not just time but physically and mentally to a company like that you

know there has to be more of a duty of care I think afterwards.

Do you feel you have a lot to say but no-one to tell about your unresolved feeling and emotions

about retirement?

Within the game, yeah, I suppose there has been very little study done on it with the IRFU and with

IRUPA about how guys are being affected and I think there is a new batch of guys coming out of it

that have just been professional all their life and that has been happening in the last four or five years I

think so. I think number one it is important to keep these guys involved in the game and I have

noticed that a lot of guys are leaving the game with a bit of bitterness and animosity towards the

organisation because of the way things have finished which is pretty sad. And the one thing that this

organisation needs is a bit of fresh blood and young blood into it so am I would hope that they would

spot that and make sure that, that happens down the road you know.

That’s because, and I suppose just going back given the very nature of as we were saying earlier

on about it being a relatively new professional sport and I suppose rugby would have had this I

suppose stereotypical attitude of being a very kind of shirt and tie game at one stage but I

suppose Munster Rugby has done their part to try and transcend that to try and bring it down

to I won’t say the working class but you know kinda spread the love of the game throughout it, I

suppose that is what is contributing there to the need for fresh blood because there probably

needs to be a change to the psyche as well in relation to it.

And IRUPA are trying to do, I know they carryout surveys I think every three years through

the players and it’s along those lines of trying to assess, to the best of my knowledge. As I said

it’s confidential so I have never seen it but just one or two bits and pieces come out in the press,

headline kinda of things. It’s just that sort of stuff that they are trying to highlight is it?

Yeah, they are I think it’s. You see they are fighting a battle there because I suppose it is really only

starting now. The true professionals are coming out of it and I suppose some guys are maybe

reluctant to talk about it and you know it’s, you get a mixed bag, you get a lot of guys who just come

straight out of it and go onto something and are successful and there are other guys that struggle and

ah you know I think just because a guy has a good job doesn’t mean everything is going really well

for him, you know, there is a psychological side to things too, that needs to be addressed for fellas and

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ah but I just think that trying to keep the guys involved in the game and I think that is more down at

Munster level you know this sort of a social side to things where guys are welcomed back to the club,

that hasn’t happened. I think a lot of guys feel very alienated from the club after they finish and that’s

a side of it I think needs to be fixed you know.

Given the, obviously like a lot of businesses, Munster Rugby would be no different, there is

obviously more and more financial pressure put on them, it is being well documented there at

the moment there is a big overhaul I think there at the moment. This is obviously not helping

matters there either as obviously they don’t have the resources .......

Well I don’t agree with that. I think that, I think they will always give the poor mouth about things

you know and that has been the way my dealings with them has been. I don’t think any of the players

would want anything for free and that’s not what I am getting at, at all. I think what guys want is to

be involved in the club in some way and I think that if their PR people are smart enough they can

utilise the former players in a way to benefit the club as well and everyone is happy I think. There is

models of that done in England with English clubs with less success than us and I think you know

there is opportunities there for both sides and I think it is important to keep fellas involved in the clubs

in some way. I have seen it on a smaller scale with my own club with XXX. It think it is worrying

when you have had some of the best players in the world playing with your club for those particular

years and they walk away from it feeling bitter and unhappy you know and that’s pretty sad you

know.

Where there any unresolved feelings that did effect your mental wellbeing? And how did you

vent your frustrations? (this is obviously in relation to retirement).

I suppose I, yeah I suppose my treatment since I have retired. Things I needed to get done medically

and I suppose this has to be very private because it is ongoing but am. You know this duty of care I

think, is a huge issue for me. Physically putting your body on the line and having medical stuff that

needs doing and the club not wanting anything to do with it is I think is pretty frustrating and I have to

be careful about venting my frustration because I don’t want to end things on bad terms with the club

I love. I loved what I’ve done, I‘ve loved the people that I played with and stuff like that so I don’t

want to end it badly but ah I want the right thing to be done by me as well and it’s about trying to

approach it in the right way you know.

As I said there will be no names on it and I certainly won’t be making any reference to your

conditions or anything like that so

Yeah, that’s fine.

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Did you have any support from your peers, close friends, club or province? Did you share your

thoughts with any of your peers? (obviously these are all just retirement).

Yeah, yeah I mean I have a lot of teammates that I would be very close to and we would talk about

very personal things I suppose and am a lot of the sentiment is the same from guys who have gone

before me and some guys that are still in there, they feel very frustrated I suppose and, but I think it is

more to do with the fact that you know we would have had this idealistic view of how Munster should

be and you know when we started out first we were a lot like, we are sounding like our parents now,

things were a lot different back in that day and we did things very differently and I suppose that is

more a reflection on us then the guys that are there now because things do change and there is nothing

you can do about that and I think it is a case of trying to marry the two together and I think that it is

very important for the powers that be that they still welcome the older guys in and value their opinion

because I think experience and stuff like that you can’t buy it you know and I think they haven’t got

that balance right yet you know.

If you did have emotional distress was there any interventions in relation to it? Did you receive

any counselling or exit interviews?

No, I had no exit interview, I have had no real dealings with them since I retired but I think the

support of the guys, I think I am very lucky at the moment because a lot of my generation has retired

in the previous four or five years. A couple have retired this year with me and ah there will be a few

more next year I would say or the year after so ah we are a kinda group who have done everything

more or less together, we all sort of joined together, we all got married together, we had kids together

and we are all starting to retire around the same time so that support network that is there amongst

ourselves is invaluable really. The boys are only a phone call away or you know we meet for a coffee

whenever so from that side of it there is great support there.

But it’s very informal, its friends?

Yes, it is.

You have friends more so on a kinda ad hock basis, more so than a need to sit down basis more

so than anything structured say.

I think it’s not something that rugby players would be into anyway you know, sitting down formally

with someone I think is a very hard thing to get a rugby player to do so I think from that side of things

we are kind of our own support network in the sense.

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Did the work that IRUPA does that at any stage, I know you probably haven’t been through

that since you retired but do you think that, that can lend itself to fellas maybe saying look I

need a help out here because maybe psychologically they are not dealing with this very well.

Ah yeah, I think it is very important because I can see sometimes when we are in a group, as a group

of lads and we are talking about things especially when it is a group you mightn’t exactly say truly

what you feel because it is not the macho thing to say but sometimes it might be better to talk to

someone that you don’t really know and you can let it all out and I can see that, that is probably an

important thing to have there for guys you know and I know that some guys do avail of it and I think

IRUPA are very supportive in that way and they are very much about the player I think but I would

think that sometimes maybe at the end of a guys career that it might be just worth making it

compulsory that a fella sits down and talks to someone because I don’t think guys have the inclination

to go away and organise that themselves you know and ah it might be a good thing to have a sort of an

exit medical which includes having a counselling session with someone you know.

Yeah, I think that I suppose just to prepare them because I suppose Sports Psychologists are

great for preparing you to get onto the pitch to do your best but they should also be prepared

for when say the lights go out and say a fella is walking off that they should put fellas in the

position that look if you feel this way maybe it is time to talk to or we can take it to the next level

as you said yourself given the sport these people might be reluctant to admit a weakness, given

that they probably played games hurt but just to play and not admit the weakness. Just from

that perspective I suppose it is interesting to think that from moving to the professional level

there is an element that hasn’t, now I am sure your diet is well controlled and your training is

well controlled and that ye all have lives to lead after. Nobody finishes at 65 say and a rugby

player in the natural cycle of retirements say where everyone else is.

Just one final question then. What was your Coaches role in your career termination? I think

you have more or less answered it I think.

Ah that is a difficult question. I was only in it a year to be honest but I would have had very little

dealings with him and I suppose the writing was on the wall when I wasn’t talking with him that much

during the year you know.

That’s perfect.

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5.2 PARTICIPANT 2


Oh God, I can’t even remember, 5, 6 maybe.

And how old were you began playing Rugby Union?

Ah 6, that’s when I started you know.

How old were you when you turned professional?

Technically probably 20.

Ok, what Provincial Clubs have you played for in Ireland.

Just Munster. Sorry, I had a one off game against Ireland with XXXX.

Ok, and have you ever played professionally outside of Ireland.

Am, with a different club, no.


Family.

Do you have an athletic hero?

Am, Mohammad Ali or someone like that.

Who was that person and what made them a hero to you?

I suppose their skills.

What was the most important thing that kept you playing rugby all these years?

Ah, love of the game I suppose, love of playing the game. The friendship around the game and ah I

suppose after a time it just becomes part of you and....

Part of your life is it?

Yeah, part of your life, your social circles, your job, your hobby as it had been kinda all the way

through and am you know families and every sorts bond as well, friends, kids friends and you know

so it just becomes interwoven into your into your am...

What did you find is most enjoyable about playing rugby?

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I suppose the friendship would have been the biggest thing you know. The camaraderie and the, I

suppose the craic you just have around it. And probably just below that is probably winning you

know.

Can you outline at what levels you played rugby, club, provincial, international and touring

sights?

So am, XXXX, Munster, Ireland, Lions I suppose.

How long did your professional career last?

15 years.

And for what reason did you retire? Voluntary, involuntary?

Involuntary, injury.

It is clear that you made a long term commitment to sport and have achieved a high level in

relation to same. At what age did you begin your competitive sport’s career and how successful

was it in the initial stages?

Competitive, am in terms of representative or ...

I suppose when you, when it became serious more so then when you...

I suppose I was in school really, am, you are going through the representative levels, you know just

going through really senior schools it wasn’t much sixteen’s or anything like that you know. So yeah,

it would have been at school.

And how successful was it in the initial stages?

Ah, phew, not massively so, it was ok . I was an ok player in school.

Ok,

Yeah, I signed a good couple of years after that and then went backwards again for a couple of games.

By choosing sport you made a large commitment. What was your main goal when you began


Am, I suppose just to play for Ireland at senior international level am....

By commitment to sport. “We mean your desire and determination to keep doing what you do

best, and that is to keep on winning”. Were results important to you at the beginning and why?

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Ah, I suppose they were important but because eventually I wanted to play for Ireland and if you are

not in a winning team you are not going to progress I suppose representatively. Ah, it was going to be

much harder to progress representatively. So it means back then there wasn’t as much you know

when I was at school there wasn’t as much of a club it was more of an individual sport nearly.

Ok, Even when you were with your first club?

Oh no, not when I was with XXX, I’m talking in school and school is obviously different but at

representative level I was just thrown into a couple of games and that was it but to progress to the next

level, it was a little bit more almost individual.

So it was about progression more so then that was it?

A little bit, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Considering everything both on and off the field how much did you enjoy playing rugby with 1

being not very much and 7 loving it?

Ah, 7, I suppose.

Ok, what valuable opportunities did you have taking part in sports say travel, meeting people,

job opportunities?

What, what, which, what?

Sorry what valuable opportunities did taking part in sports....

All of the above, all of the above yeah.

So you saw a lot of the world and ....

Saw a lot of the world yeah it was amazing yeah and it was a great life experience and ah

Say job opportunities have it in anyway, did you say...

Massively so yeah.

For the contacts was it?

Yeah. Not even, not even I suppose familiar contacts but contacts where you may have met but they

know you through rugby and it makes it a lot easier to talk to those people and they are more willing

to help you.

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And am because of the work you are related to now it’s not primarily any way to do with rugby

now sure it’s not. You’re a business person say on your own now?

Yeah.

So thinking back to your first major competitive honour when you turned professional what

was that?

When I turned professional?

Yeah.

My first major?

Competitive honour.

As in what did we win?

Yeah.

I suppose it would have been interpro or something like that you know.

How did you feel and what were you thinking prior to the contest?

It was a while ago, yeah it is fair to say it was a while ago. I’m just trying to think, ah, are you

thinking more of a final is it more along those lines?

I think yeah, I suppose part of what we find in the research is that players that achieve a lot of

their goals say in their sports find retirement easier because I suppose they are not looking back

at an unfulfilled say ...

Yeah, yeah you are always going to have things that are unfulfilled generally unless you are very

lucky but you have to be content with what you have achieved yeah. I suppose, I mean I was always

nervous before games and all that and in some ways obviously you know the first two finals, it’s a

specific field, I may be being too specific but am the first two finals there was obviously a lot of

disappointment but the third one where we won was just more relief and it would have been I suppose

the biggest..

So were ye were up for the third one to get the monkey off the back say?

Literally yeah.

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And to build on the confidence?

Yeah, and not to have lost for the third time I suppose yeah. The second time we won was literally

just more a joyous occasion and enjoying it a bit better you know.

Because ye were over the initial ..?

Yeah, yeah.

But obviously there was players at that stage it was their first time as well so obviously there

was a mixture of emotions?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

After the win did you think about other goals say moving off say from the Heineken Cup

Finals?

I wanted to win another one yeah, you just got greedy, you love, you love that feeling and ah it felt the

most natural thing to actually want to win another one you know.

Ok, so there was never a stage where you felt even after even the second one where you felt ok

two is...

No, no you just wanted to win more and more because you wanted that feeling again it was a bit like a

drug I suppose.

Did your life change in anyway after your first big win?

I got very drunk, ha ha, am did it change, no.

Did you experience any additional demands?

Am, a little bit yeah, yes of course you know there would be a little bit more of I suppose media or

you know book signings or you know things like that but not intrusively you know or not it didn’t

become a pain of such.

So you didn’t find it very stressful ?

No.

Were you prepared to deal with the additional demands?

Ah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I, there wasn’t massive or major changes you know and I think if there was I

probably would have been less inclined to want to win again so it was just...

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Ok, so ye kept it on a kinda of a..

I think it wasn’t, you just get on with the next one and the next season and try win it again so it was

nothing really, no hangover from the previous one.

Ok, did ye have any assistance in dealing with the demands on it were ye giving any?

No. But again, they weren’t, there were a few things but ..

There wasn’t anything hugely?

Yeah.

Do you have any suggestions that might help other professional Rugby Union players who

would face a similar situation to help them better prepare and cope with becoming or remaining

a champion?

Ah, there is probably more media attention and probably more..

There is more media attention now?

Yeah. There obviously is but there is probably, rugby is a much bigger sport here in Ireland anyway

but to win it now would be a very different affair then when we won it in 2006 so it is difficult to say

but I am sure ...

Why do you think it would be different, is it?

Because rugby has grown massively you know since we won in 2006, we won it in 2008. Leinster

actually won it three times , there has been a Grand Slam and rugby is just...

So the success that it has brought had different kinda demands and?

Yeah, public opinion and people with public interest in the sport it’s vastly different, so I mean it

would be much more challenging now to win something like that and to

And say just looking at it from that prospective and I suppose it got bigger in the last couple of

years. You still kinda come back to the media side so I know that the Munster Academy...

Well media and public interest as well you know is kind of, one kind of goes in hand with the other.

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But the Munster Academy do a certain amount of I think media...

Possibly, yeah, yeah, I mean I did do some media when I was kinda in the Irish Academy or

foundation as it was called at the time. Something that was going at the time but it was limited at you

know, I suppose with all this digital guidance or whatever we would have had Coaches who would

have been a Career Guidance so he naturally would have almost being that guide or help in that sense

and in terms of talking to the media they would always give you a team talk before it wasn’t

necessarily a media thing to but it was just more of a team psychology thing we invariably we had our

media thing after it. It ended up unwittingly literally reiterating what he said five minutes before hand

and it was never dressed up like that but that I am sure is what he was trying to do and it certainly

worked and it made life easier in dealing with the media because we would have heard the answers to

the questions five minutes earlier and you were able to just ..

Is that, so that was obviously subliminal maybe to a degree ..

Yeah, yeah very much so yeah.

Say for players now do, you just think that media plays a huge part in it now?

It does and there is probably not as much guidance, yeah, I don’t know, I mean in terms, a lot of it has

to come from the Coaches who would be talking to the players mostly about rugby and am I suppose

they have to be aware that they need a party line or whatever it is you know on certain things. Am, but

there is Media Mangers, well there was back there or did they just get rid of after 13 years or

something so they are recruiting again in a time of a, a bit of a need of one I think.

Do you have any non sport identities as in what would be helpful for an athlete to broaden their

social identity, their social support network?

Say that again.

Say do you have any non sport identities or does everyone kinda associate you with sport?

Sorry, am, non-sport identities. I suppose now it is business you know I from a day to day have

obviously stepped away from rugby and for whatever my business interests I am trying to use

whatever profile I have from rugby to you know transfer to those.

And do you think that, that is helpful to broaden the social identity, is there...

Yeah, I don’t want to be known as an ex rugby player. I want to be known for something else now.

Ok.

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What have you invested that you cannot recover from your professional sports career?

Invested, obviously not monetary is it or?

No, say time, like I know some of them have commented like time with their families.

Am, yeah, time with family, time with friends, social occasions, weddings, christenings, birthday

parties, you know whatever the list goes on. But obviously you are institutionalised your time is not

your own so you go along where ever the bubble is going and other things have to take a back seat.

So it did feel kind of when you were in the thing, it did feel very institutionalised in so far as

your time was dictated?

I, when you step out of it, it seems that way. When you are in there no it doesn’t because you are

happy to be in there. It’s a safety, it’s a safety bubble as well you know so it is hard for people to

access you and you are happy with that and it is kinda needed as well.

Am, did you feel a sense of obligation to keep competing because of the expectations of other

people?

Am, to keep competing in terms of?

In relation to your rugby career.

The longevity of it or? No, I just loved playing it, ah as long as my body and my mind were happy

with the game I was going to keep playing and ah I obviously, if I still got offered a contract but no I

wanted to play for as long as I could to be honest so I loved it and ah, no there was nothing outside of

that really that ..

Whose expectations were most important to you in your rugby career?

Expectations, well, I suppose my own first and foremost and then family and team mates. It varied

from time to time you know at different points in your career. Starting off you know it was certainly

your parents, am, my father would have travelled everywhere watching the games and stuff so you

obviously, it is natural to want to impress your father in that but am. Down through the years then it

became maybe peers or certain players or but ultimately myself really you know.

And when you say certain players, were they players that you were playing with or people that

you would have admired say in the world of rugby that?

Ah, no probably players you played with yeah.

Did you feel encouragement and support from other people while you were playing?

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Absolutely. Yeah.

And it was obviously very important to you?

Yeah, of course, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean it was always a bit of icing on the cake really you know.

I know these questions seem very..

No, it’s ok.

How do you feel these people encouraged you and supported your participation, say the likes of

your family and say?

How do I feel?

Yeah. How did they offer you this support to keep participating?

Am, by family attending games and talking to you about games and performances and congratulating

I suppose.

Say when injury, if you were injured or anything like that was it your family you chose to rely

on or would you have gone back to your club or your team mates or something like that?

Am.

That your family mightn’t have fully understood?

Yeah, you are a bit isolated from your family logistically like my family would have been in all

different parts of Ireland or the world so it was probably more your partner or whatever, my wife now

so. I suppose that’s fair enough.

This is a strange question now but are you viewed as a former rugby player who made a good

investment in society, who did a good job by working hard?

I hope so.

How do you think you are viewed by the public?

Am, I dunno, I suppose, hopefully something like the above.

As regards working hard?

Am, yeah, yeah, I would like to think so yeah.

Would you say there was unwillingness on your side to plan for retirement?

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Unwillingness?

Yeah.

Am, probably yeah, there probably was some bit not fully but certainly it was something that was

always in the back of your head but am one it’s very hard, I mean you are always, sorry there are

different ways of looking at that there is a fear of thinking about it at times but no, I did actually try

when I think about it, I did actually try and plan for retirement. Everything, in fact everything I was

doing was trying to plan for it I mean trying to invest and have a bit of cash, I suppose I was trying to,

I started off a role in a company or with a partner in a job so that was with a view to retiring and

getting somewhat prepared for the real world. So yeah, no I was always thinking about education but

never really knew what to do or how to go about, not how to go about it but I got frustrated. I tried a

couple of times to go back you know when I was injured it was fine then once rugby rolled around it

was just, it wasn’t feasible to keep doing it so I got frustrated with it. But no I was always trying to do

something but I always felt like I should have been doing more and then but I can see your question

you know, is, you know you don’t want to think of when I did come to actually.

That’s the main stay of the actual piece is that I suppose given when ye are caught up in the

moment when things are successful , I suppose it can happen to people in other walks of life as

well but from ye’re perspective most of ye will retire at least twice in your lives in so far as...

Mentally and then physically.

Well, even say you have now retired say from professional rugby which was one job.

Yeah, oh yeah you are not retired you are just changing job yeah.

Yeah, but I suppose where I am looking at it is that you have retired from the first chapter of

your, the first career you had..

Well, I think nowadays everyone has so many different jobs it’s just kinda going from one job into

another and that’s the way I am looking at it a bit you know.

Ok.

Am, but I think when I, just to answer your question again when I did actually have to start thinking

about when I had the injury, you know it was three, four months into the injury and somebody,

Hamish actually, was talking to me about you know with a view to retiring, you know what are the

consequences and I didn’t want to talk to him, I got very upset, not very upset with him but I got ratty

with him, am, because you know he was bringing it up and I was 100% tunnel vision of getting this

144 | P a g e

back and he had to, you have to kinda do that to try and get back you have to I suppose have that

tunnel vision and you know people with kinda doubting you or whatever you just ignore it and go on

so. There was probably a four week period there where I had to change my mentality from don’t even

talk to me about it to alright let’s talk about it.

Ok.

Just hypothetically.

At what age say would you say that you started to contemplate it say. I imagine that in your...

Ah this was only a four week period in between.

Yeah.

Before you say.

Sorry, what age was I sorry.

Say did you start contemplating say retirement? I know that you say you were saving and stuff

like that.

This was just when I was injured.

Just when you were injured?

Ah, yeah. No I wasn’t contemplating retiring. I never contemplated retiring until I was injured but in

terms of making a decision to it or but I, obviously you are always contemplating retirement, its, it’s

the fear at the back of everyone’s heads whose playing because you are doing everything in your

power during your career that you don’t have to retire early, that you don’t retire early, that you have

a contract or that you don’t pick up an injury so everything is done with a view to not retiring so

actually having to make that decision in the middle of trying to come back to retire you know that was

a total mind change.

Ok. Was there any structure in place to help you with your post sports career development?

Ah, IRUPA offer some things, there was a thing that Declan Kidney and Paul McNulty brought in

which was the, I can’t even remember what it was, was it called the Mentor System for, sorry, in

partnership with BDO and their entrepreneur of the year awards which they have ah, they will pick

players up which started with the Irish squad with say entrepreneurs or people who have won the

entrepreneurs of the year are involved in that system sort of business basically as a Mentor for

players and basically to help and guide them through and put them in whatever way of contacts that

145 | P a g e

they can you know so it is very much the, every relationship is different but they did do that and that

was very beneficial I found.

That was mainly say from transition say work wise, say psychologically wise was there any sort

of counselling or anything say afforded by?

There is, there is a Team Psychologist that was made available.

Ok.

And its, he does do some teamwork in terms of rugby but he is also available on a one on one basis if

you wish. I didn’t avail of it.

Ok.

Do you feel that you have a lot to say but no-one to tell about your unresolved feelings or

emotions about retirement?

No.(silence)

Am, were there any unresolved feelings that were harmful to your mental wellbeing? With

regards the injury, was there a disappointment in you that say that your career was say

obviously in your head you knew that you would have to retire say with the injury bringing it

say forward?

Ah, I suppose I would be on reflection from now and a bit of prospective I don’t think that my injury

was handled with the best way possible.

Ok.

I think probably, in some ways it was handled poorly in terms of my rehabilitation with XXXX.

So It was down to just from the medical staff prospective more so than?

Yeah, from a medical staff prospective yeah. XXXXXXXXXX.

And obviously that would frustrate you?

Am, not really because I think, well I am hoping that I made the right decision I think if I tried to go

back anyway it wouldn’t have been successful and I would be in a worse position now.

Physically?

Physically and financially yeah.

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Did you have any support from your peers, close friends, club or province? This is obviously

when you retired.

Did I? Yeah, of course yeah. As much as they can you know.

Did the club play much of a role, I know speaking to some of the other lads the club played a

huge role, not so much Munster now as regards say their own like say I think XXX speaks very

highly of XXX say from that prospective you know and I suppose he is still kind of grounded in

XXX. I am just wondering say from the support point of view or had you ..

Not really am, not really a support kind of, in terms of friendship yeah certainly I would go back to

the club and you know hang around with guys in the club who were associated with YYY and

Munster you know and there is weddings you kinda socially probably hang around with them a bit

and...

But you do feel the need to really kind of rely on these people for, as regards when you retired

there was no, you like, I know your family and friends were obviously there for you but you

didn’t feel the need to discuss...

No.

No.

No, I don’t think so.I think you don’t want to, it is probably healthy to almost break ties in some ways

with the club and not feel like you’re still a player, you know you need to kinda move on and do your

own thing. Cut your cloth for your future or whatever so. In that sense I wasn’t really trying to...

And do you think the fact that you had say you had ideas as regards how you wanted to develop

your life post retirement that, that was easier for you to do as regards you weren’t, you didn’t ...

Yeah, I think its kinda sink or swim and you just kinda get out there and break ties and do your own

thing and not be, you know I didn’t want to be going to coaching or when I was still playing I was

talking about it even when I was retiring I was talking about more of a business role with Munster but

that never really came and I never really pushed it as much as I should have to be honest. It was

probably more my side you know, but am ..

What was your Coaches role obligation in your career termination?

Am, nothing I just told, sorry, that’s not fair, I, it was just obviously me telling him that you know I

had made the decision but in terms of how we went about it he was very accommodating in the way I

147 | P a g e

went about it and I asked him to do a few things that he was more than willing to do, you know it

obviously wasn’t in his interest as such but you know he, I suppose I had a plan, an about to exit plan

which he wholeheartedly bought into it and did what he had to do to...

Ok, so obviously you didn’t want to exit but obviously you got the exit to a degree on your own

say..

Yes, yes, very much on my own terms. You know am, the CEO as well, Gareth helped me in that too

so.

And that’s it.

That’s it? It was short, I was expecting ..

148 | P a g e


So what age where you when you started your athletic career say in any shape?

When I started to play sport?

Yeah.

Jesus I don’t know about 8 I suppose.

Ok. And when you started playing rugby?

Rugby would’ve been the first thing I played yeah.

First sport yeah?

Yeah.

And how old were you when you turned professional?

In 1997 wasn’t it?

1996 I think was the year..

Yeah, what am I XX now so what is that?

31 is it?

31 I suppose yeah, 31.

What provincial clubs have you played for in Ireland?

XXX.

Have you ever played professionally out of Ireland?

Yes.

How did you find that experience?

Ah, very good actually. I actually played professional outside of Ireland before I played professional

here.

Oh right.

I played with XXXX in the Super 12’s in Australia.

149 | P a g e

And how long where you there?

A season there.

And that was your very first season say professional?

Yeah.

And then you came back to say Munster.

What got you into playing Rugby Union to begin with at the age of 8 say?

My friends I suppose we were living near XXX Rugby Club.

And just was following your friends?

Yeah.

Was your family involved in it?

In rugby at that stage?

Yeah.

My older brother would have been but he would have played for XXXXX.

Do you have an athletic hero?

No.

What was the most important thing that kept you playing rugby all those years?

I enjoyed it, I loved the game.

And the aspect of it say a lot of fellas commented on the camaraderie with the lads in the team..

Yeah. Just friendship as well and you know it was a challenge.

And was the challenge to progress say when you went professional say to get to say to the Irish

team and then to move on to touring sides and stuff like that?

Well you see I played for Ireland before with professional so I suppose the aim when I started taking

it serious or whatever 20 years of age or whatever 21 would have been to play for Ireland yeah.

So it was 21 before you started to think that..

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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What was the most enjoyable thing about playing rugby?

Am, the most enjoyable thing? . I suppose people that you would meet and friends, travel, travel all

over the world.

You played rugby at all levels club, provincial, international and touring?

Yeah.

And how long did your professional career last?

1997 to 2002. So that’s 6 years say.

And for what reason did you retire was it voluntary or involuntary?

Ah, oh voluntary.

Ah, it is clear that you made a long term commitment to sport and have achieved a high level in

relation to same what age did you begin your competitive sports career and how successful was

it in the initial stages?

I began competitive I suppose at 16.

And how successful was it say from…

From 16 it was underage success like I won a few cups with XXXX, 16s, 18s and 20s.

By choosing sport you made a large commitment, what was your main goal when you began


Just to enjoy it.

I suppose the element of that, that comes in I suppose is when you made the commitment to

sport it was still amateur and I suppose some of the other lads I have spoken to it was

professional at that stage so I suppose they were thinking career wise so that is probably why, I

know some of these questions come across a bit stupid for want of a better word.

I know yeah, they are grand.

By commitment to sport we mean your determination to keep doing what you do best and that

is to keep on winning. Were results important to you and why?

Results were important yeah. I hated losing. I was very competitive.

And would you think that you carried that the whole way through your career?

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Yeah.

And say beyond your career then would that still be something that you still see in yourself?

Yeah.

Considering everything both on and off the field how much did you enjoy playing sport, 1 being

not a lot and 7 loved it?

7.

What valuable opportunities did you have taking part in sport which consider, travel, meeting

people, job opportunities?

Am, opportunities, meeting people I suppose really you know.

Ye would have toured a lot wouldn’t ye, you would have seen parts of the world say?

I travelled all over, the travel was great you know, I have to Australia 4 or 5 times, South Africa, New

Zealand, you know Canada, America all of the place like.

And these were places that say in the normal course you wouldn’t go?

Yeah.

Just thinking back to your first major competitive honour when you turned professional, what

was that?

When I went professional?

Yeah.

Am. I suppose playing for Ireland would have been the first then after that it would have been you

know the Heineken Cup with Munster.

Just say going to the Heineken Cup one how did you feel before that contest?

Before it?

Yeah, say before one of the finals or something like that.

Am, You would be nervous, I suppose you had a fear of losing you know.

With the fear of losing and the competitive side that probably would have brought you to say

the peak of your career do you think?

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Yeah.

Say after your first initial win say, major honour did you start to think say about other goals?

Say did you try and build on say …

Not really because you know it is a team sport so I suppose you would have played for the team rather

than individual goals you know. I suppose your goal would have been to keep your place on the team.

And that would have been even through your amateur stage, that would have been the same.

(Interviewee takes a phone call)

Did your life change in anyway after your first big win, say was there any extra demands put on

you or?

No, not really. I suppose the first big win that I would have had was the All Ireland League with

XXX .

Say when ye moved to Munster and stuff like that would ye have had more media pressure,

would ye have had more demands say placed on your time say in that respect?

When I went professional yeah, definitely.

So time became?

Time consuming yeah.

Were you prepared to deal with the additional demands say from the time you went

professional?

Yeah.

Ye weren’t given any training in relation to it, how to?

Obviously yeah, you were given training, you were given a schedule and you had to stick to it.

But ye, back then ye wouldn’t have done a lot of media?

No, No.

The media ye kinda did yourselves. I know that the newer lads now would have done elements

or media training and I think in the Munster Academy as well.

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Do you have any suggestions that might help other professional Rugby Union players who will

face similar situations say going forward. I suppose now looking at the demands and the more

high profile that the game is now. Is there any elements of it that you think that they could

learn or that they could get training on?

I wouldn’t be the perfect role model now for that! With my history!

Ok, am nearly there now..

Is there anything that you invested in rugby that you cannot get back? A lot of the lads said

time, time with their family.

I suppose time with your family and I suppose aches and pains, bruised body. Like it is only in the

last couple of years that, the last 2 or 3 years you know that I am having trouble with my ankles and

stuff and obviously it is through the rugby.

So the injuries are starting to manifest more now say?

Yeah, yeah.

Did you feel a sense of obligation to keep competing because of the expectations of other people?

Am, not of other people no, just I would have done it you know for myself. Like the day I would

have stopped competing is the day I say give it up you know.

So you only did it for yourself, the expectations of other people didn’t kind of, you were more

focused on the goals…

For the team, yeah, yeah.

Are you viewed, this is a very wishy washy question now but are you viewed as a former rugby

player who made a good investment in society who did a good job by working hard?

I think so. I would like to think so anyway.

And, how do you think the public would view you say from your professional rugby career?

Am, I still get loads of good feedback even now though I haven’t played for 10 years.

So you think it has projected a positive image of you?

Yeah.

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Would you say that there was unwillingness on your side to plan for retirement, say from the

professional side of it now?

Am, I knew 12 months before I retired that I was going to retire at the end of the, you know, I planned

myself well, I played another 12 months and that was it.

Ok, so you had formulated in your own head say?

Yeah.

Before that say because you were playing for about 6 years had it kinda entered your head

about the retirement aspect of it or were you so engrossed in competing that?

I suppose probably 2 years before I gave it up I would have started thinking about it you know, will I

give it another year or will I give it 2 years.

Given the fact that it is such a physical kinda, macho is the wrong word to use but I will use it

because you understand what I am saying, macho sport and showing a weakness is not

something that you want and in the game that ye have I obviously, there is always a chance of

an injury that can at any stage, do you think that psychologically you block out those things

because you don’t want to admit that?

No, I think the reason I decided or started to think about giving up was because my body was telling

me.

Ok. Do you understand what I am saying?

I understand yeah.

You know you don’t want to admit a weakness because the game itself doesn’t allow a weakness

say.

My body would have told me alright, you know that you are coming to an end because physically and

I suppose mentally as well.

Yeah.

Was there any structure in place to help you with your post sports career development?

No.

You obviously had in your head and obviously the fact that you were say in business or you

would have been, so you were conscious say, on looking there at the differentiation between

yourself the other lads who would have been professional all their lives.

155 | P a g e

Yeah.

And not to use the phrase but you would have been more cognisant of the world outside of

rugby?

Yeah.

Do you think that, that helped you to kind of?

It would have because like I had decided a year, maybe a year and half before I finished that I was

going to open the business so.

So you had a plan?

Yeah.

You knew where you were gonna go.

Do you feel that you had a lot to say but no-one to talk to about unresolved feelings after your

retirement?

No.

Say did you find it difficult say to adjust?

I found, say, what I found difficult when I gave it up was the adrenaline rush that you get from the

sport.

Ok.

Like the first couple of months was very hard, what am I going to do with myself you know.

Yeah, yeah.

So I actually bought a XXX, that filled that gap for me there you know.

But that was something you brought upon yourself. That was something , no-one advised you,

you just took this up yourself.

Yeah.

Have you any unresolved feelings that were harmful to your mental wellbeing afterwards?

No.

156 | P a g e

Say, from the fact that maybe your body had broken down but maybe the mind still wanted to

play but that …

No, I mean, no.

No, ok.

What was your Coaches role in your career termination? How did you approach the subject say

at that stage?

How do you mean now?

Say, you obviously had in your head day 12 months before hand, did you talk to the Coach at

that stage or did you wait until later on?

No, I spoke to the Coach, well he actually asked me what was my plan and I said look I am going to

give it another 12 months and it was XXX who was the Irish Coach at the time and in fairness he said

to me, the position is yours he said for the year.

Ok.

At the time so I know I was under no pressure.

Ok, ok, So I suppose because you had formulated that you were going to go and because you

had that kind of frank enough discussion with him you knew ..

Yeah, yeah.

Do you think that, that made the transition easier then say somebody , say if you come to the

end of that 12 months and decided you wanted to go again but at that stage

No, I was well…..

You were well finished at that stage…

I was ready to run out the garden..

And there was no counselling provided for ye upon say retirement?

No, back then there was nothing.

Because I suppose at that stage ye were nearly the first say tranche of people so you don’t say

think at that stage the sport was very well prepared to deal with fellas retiring?

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It wasn’t I suppose, It was different for me because I had worked before but I don’t know about the

lads afterwards because , I was the first out of our group say to retire after me it was XXX. So he

would have been in the same boat as me. I suppose after that then the younger lads, I know they did

bring some stuff in at a later stage and the lads were doing computer courses and stuff you know so

they started doing it but when I finished they had nothing no.

I know and from talking to a lot of the lads and even the likes of XXX he is finishing a Masters

and stuff like that so maybe they are a bit more cognisant but at the same time they are also the

fellas as I said probably didn’t work prior to going professional.

Yeah.

So they are caught in a kind of different mire in relation to it. Is there, just looking at the

transition then from yourselves like rugby is always seen as a very family, that the clubs are

very family orientated and the transition into professionalism which you would have seen first-

hand..

Yeah.

Did you see any kinda conflicts that kind of arose from that given like because for all intense

and purposes before when it was amateur it was fellas, you know everyone was friends, then it

became fella’s employment and as you know yourself in employment there is issues, there is

other issues that come in and fellas get deselected and it becomes a bit harder to take because

de-selection means that you might lose your livelihood.

Yeah.

Did you see any of the negative side of it and I am not saying, I am just saying….

No, because I was lucky enough, like in my career I was never dropped off a team, like the only time I

didn’t play a match was if I was injured and I have been suspended a couple of times but thankfully

when I was playing I was never you know …

Yeah.

I was always first choice.

But some of the lads, some of the other lads say that would have been playing with you that time

would have probably fallen into the de-selection thing. Because it became a job for ye say at one

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stage, did ye become more cognisant say of the importance of making sure ye weren’t deselected

say?

Yeah, we would yeah.

Because it was for all intense and purposes your livelihood?

Your career like.

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I know that some of the questions boggled you with the ones that you answered and thanks very

much for doing that. I suppose these questions kind of give a bit more depth onto them. I

suppose where my research is going it is mainly going to be based on the, I was hoping to do it

mainly based on the questionnaires but I am not going to get enough of a sample I think to get

any real statistics from it. I was hoping the time with IRUPA, I think Hamish, you probably

were familiar with Hamish.

Yeah, yeah, he is after going now I think.

Yeah, he is gone from there anyway. So I think he was kinda interested at the start and kinda

getting involved in it but he has since left and I think now they kinda, to be honest I understand

they are kinda saying that they do their own reports every couple of years and that they did not

want to contaminate their own reports by kind of asking fellas to fill out surveys and stuff every

year like that so I think they do it every 2 or 3 years to the best of my knowledge, you probably

know a bit more about it than me.

yeah.

But I suppose what I am doing is, I am interviewing a couple of the lads now that would

predominately be Munster lads which kind of doesn’t help give an overall prospective but I

suppose it is the best I can do in the timeframe I have but I met three lads last week and I am

hoping to have another three this week and I think that is about as much as I am going to have.

But if I can I will just start it there because I know you are on the phone there. Do you want me

to ring you back altogether?

No, just shoot away there.

Ok, how old were you when you began your athletic career?

What do you mean by that like, when I started playing rugby?

No, say sport of any kind of ilk, not professionally say your just career full stop.

I was about 7 years of age.

Ok, 7 and was it rugby then or was it?

Yeah, rugby yeah.

Ok, so am and how old were you when you turned professional?

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Ah, I think I was just turned 20. 19 or 20 I went on the IRFU young players. They changed the

system now but when I was there it was kind of a 3 year contract you went onto with kind of a

National Academy and that’s where I started there.

Ok, and the provincial clubs you played for in Ireland that was just Munster?

Ah, no, I played for Connaught as well, I had 3 years on the Academy, the National Academy and

then I went up to Connaught so I just thought I would get better game time there and am I played a

couple of games and the following year I played a full season on a full time contract and then I came

back to Munster then.

Ok, and you have never played professionally outside of Ireland?

No, always in Ireland.

Ok, what got you into playing rugby to begin with?

I suppose my father was big into, was a big fan of the sport and he was heavily involved in a local

junior club here called XXX so himself and all his mates brought all their sons out and they started

underage and we all got into it but you are living in Limerick man all the people that you look up to is

rugby is the main sport here.

Did you have any athletic heroes growing up?

Yeah, I suppose I was a big fan of XXX, I was a big fan of XXX, I was a big fan of in other sports I

admired Roy Keane, I was a Chelsea fan when I was younger , a big fan of Denis White who used to

play with them and Terry Dixon, those lads.

And was there any reason that you were particularly drawn to them. Was there any particular

reason that you admired them say. Was there anything in their game that you admired or was

it the fact that …

Yeah, XXX played Hooker and ah he was a standout player whenever he played and he went to XXX

the same school as I went to and he played for Munster and he played for Ireland and then XXX.

When I went into first year in XXX, XXX was older than me but he was the Captain of the Senior

Team when I came into school so I would have looked up to him. And then I saw him after, XXX

would have played with XXX, he would have played with XXX and then he went to XXX, he played

for Munster, he played for Ireland and he captained them all as well so I would have just seen. I

would have looked up and seen that’s the pathway I want to go through and that is probably why I

picked him. I just liked the footballers because I liked the way they played.

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So the fact that XXX and in particular XXX while you probably didn’t know him at the time,

they appeared somewhat accessible and his success probably appeared accessible given the fact

that you were in the same sort of groove as him say as regards going to the same school and I

suppose …

I looked at it, well if XXX, well the pathway works you know with XXX as well. You go to XXX,

you come out, you play club rugby, you play for your province, you play for your country, you can be

one of the best players in the world so I looked up to them and I just thought that’s what I want to do

so.

Can I just ask did that play any part in you choosing to go to secondary school in XXX?

Ah, at the time it wasn’t because of those. I went to XXX because it was a strong rugby school yeah.

Ok, but rugby did play a part in the choice of say secondary school, say even at that age?

Yeah, yeah, I went to XXX because they were strong for rugby.

What was the most …

Because a lot of the other schools around the place were full of XXXXXXX, everyone who goes to

Munchins is a tough XXX.

It is going to be hard to quote that now in the report isn’t it. I don’t know do UL like the use of

the word XXX very often but we will see can we get it through anyway..

I am just giving you facts man, its reality in XXXX you come across a lot of XXXXXXX you

know…. They produced XXXX but they are not tough XXX like come from XXX you know.

No, alright, ok.


Ah, that I enjoyed it.

That you enjoyed it. You obviously enjoyed the sport itself but did you, was it the success that

made if more enjoyable or was it just the competing element of it?

Yeah, I like competing, I like the fact that ah rugby kind of teaches you about a work ethic, like if you

don’t make an effort in rugby you don’t, you get very little out of the sport but if you make an honest

effort and if you are on it in your approach you will be successful and you know it is a multi-faceted

game so you always have something to work on you know and its ah the fact that it is multi-faceted

you know it’s not just , you can’t just be super fast you have to be able to pass, you have to be strong .

It combines so many elements and it gives you so much to work on and so much to work on yourself

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that I really like that about the sport and then the fact that when you are playing you get to play with

your 14 team mates and the lads on the bench and you want to, you naturally want to earn their

respect by grafting you know and I think people in rugby, rugby is a team game. It is very rare you

come across someone who wants to play for themselves and I like that aspect of the game. I like the

fact that people play for each other and it feeds into a strong, you know you feel a strong sense of

ownership on the team and you feel a big responsibility to your team mates.

And as a matter of interest while you talk highly there of team sports did you participate in any

solitary sports say like you weren’t a runner or anything like that, do you have any success…

No, no, no.

You liked the team dynamic, that was part of the appeal to you?

Yeah. It’s more social as well you know, like when you, if you ask most of the lads when they retire

they all say they miss the craic of being in the dressing room with the lads and play and all that sort of

stuff you know.

On the camaraderie side of it, that’s one of the biggest elements that you do miss is it say that

you are now retired?

You miss, yeah you miss XXX meeting up with the lads and having a bit of the XXX craic with them

and ah you know that’s when, when you go to the weddings you get back together and that’s why

everyone loves it man because everyone is around together the pressure of game is there but you

know that is a good pressure when you are playing you know, that is a positive thing. But am you

just enjoy each other’s company and am the slagging and the craic and all that stuff you know. And

you get to do a job you know for close on 10 years and you make so many real good friends from it

and that is something that is brilliant about playing professional rugby, you make so many friends and

they are friends for life you know.

Just on the level that you played. You played club, provincial, international, you did all those

and touring sides?

Yes.

How long did your professional career last do you think? 10 years was it?

Am, well altogether strictly it was 12 years professional.

For what reason did you retire, was it voluntary or involuntary?

Ah, it was involuntary, my XXX kept … so I had to retire through injury.

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relation to same at what age did you begin your competitive sports career and how successful

was it in the initial stages? Say going back to school say.

At what age did I begin my competitive sports career?

Yeah, say that was probably to do with XXX when there was cups and stuff involved.

Am, sure we played for cups when I was 7 and 8 and am..

When you were with XXX was it?

Yeah, when I was playing with XXX, we didn’t win a fuckin whole lot now but we didn’t have the

best team but we had a good laugh. That’s pretty much it.

When ye moved to XXX were ye more successful in XXX?

Yeah, yeah, yeah we kicked on a bit and particularly when I was in XXX I played club rugby with

XXX Club as well so we were successful there so. Those kind of things give you, you know you

develop more as a player when you take the confidence from saying yeah we actually are good and

we are winning you know.

So say the XXX team, of those were probably as successful as you were going through the ranks

there?

Yeah, well we like, we would have looked up to the XXX Teams that won all those games you know.

So am, its good, it just sort of feeds into you, you feel like you are playing for something, something

that has a real meaning and that there is a responsibility when you play because there is team the team

that wins.

And say you saw a structure develop in XXX at that time I suppose at that time rugby really

hadn’t gone professional as XXX were just completing the another league win but you were

seeing a kind of a more professional set up as regards in XXX at that stage I imagine given the

level of success that they were enjoying?

Well every year now it gets more professional you know like professional in terms of its better

prepared am and all that you know. I suppose rugby went professional in 1995 and I left school in

199X so I went straight in and trained with the Munster Squad …………… in the off season and

appreciated training so that was brilliant for me to get, to make me feel like I was on the right track

and ah ..

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You know the way rugby is and I suppose a lot of people consider rugby to be very much a

family sport to a degree, have you seen, then it moved to professionalism to a degree had to take

from that family kind of ethos that was in there because people had to be deselected and stuff

like that, you obviously saw elements of change in relation to that because I suppose given the

fact that people were being paid and I suppose like any job when people don’t perform and they

are being paid there has to be decisions made, did you see much in the way of repercussions

from that?

Yeah, well the biggest damage I saw were occurred at the club level, not really at the provincial,

Munster level and that but at club level because yeah the club would be where lads, like the likes of

XXX and stuff, those clubs shouldn’t be trying to pay players but as rugby went professional all the

AIL clubs started paying their players and it kinda diluted what the good game was about. But

Munster it is a business but it is still very important that you try and keep the intangibles that human

factor in it as well you know and I think the good thing is that whilst most people you know there

might be a little bit of a sour taste at times because some people don’t finish on their own terms, their

contract isn’t renewed or something like that but by in large 12 months down the line people look

back at it and say fxcking hell I was so lucky to get to play and to do a job and play with fellas who

were my best friends for so long and you know I have so many good memories that they so outweigh

when people finish at the end, it doesn’t finish on the terms you would like. But am Munster then on

the other hand has an advantage that the lads that play with Munster , the majority of players that play

for Munster are from Munster and their parents, their families, their friends would support Munster

and they probably would have supported Munster themselves so there is an obligation and a

responsibility when they play because they know they are not over in the for Sale in Manchester or

something like that you know when they are finished playing they will have nothing left to do with

the club you know. They know when they are finished, I knew when I was finished with Munster that

my parents would still go to support Munster games and that my family and friends would still be

Munster fans even when I wasn’t playing so I needed to make sure when I played that I did a good job

you know.

By choosing sport you made a large commitment, what was your main goal when you began

participating in sport? Say go back to the secondary school days. Was the dream always to

play for Ireland and …

It was probably, a lot of it was probably. I just liked competing you know and then competing and the

fact that it was fun and then I wanted to play for Munster and I wanted to play for Ireland and this was

the way to do it. And I suppose you know when you are a kid as well you would have looked up to,

you know when we all came into school we would have looked up to XXX who was the Captain of

the Senior Team and he was like literally the guy that we all looked up to and we looked up to him

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because he was a rugby player so you kind of looked at it as this is the way I can elevate myself you

know.

Sorry, just there from talking to some of the other lads that I have interviewed I suppose they

would be of the genre that’s there now there would be say a couple of different mixes say, there

is some people say that would have been amateur for a couple of years then would have gone

professional say would only have had a couple of years professional and then there is other lads

probably had more experience say in the domestic leagues probably then yourself, like a lot of

them comment, they talk very highly of trying to make it onto their club teams first.

Sorry say that again. You know that was the longest question ever ...

No just, there is different genres that I am kind of interviewing I suppose some lads that were

kind of amateur before they went professional and then there was the likes of yourself where

you were more or less out of school, out of college, straight professional say. But the lads that

were say amateur they talk, their first real goal was to make it onto their club team. Do you

find that maybe, that kind of, you kind of skipped over that given the fact that you moved

straight to a very professional set up?

Am, well yeah the pathway is changing all the time now and players would have come out and I

suppose they probably needed to do a certain amount of physical development and a lot of players

kind of go and serve a kind of apprentice then you know playing club rugby and trying to get onto

their club team, when they get onto their club team then at least they are in the shop window then to

get selected for Munster. The way it’s happening now, the way it is moving on is that the players are

developing in school a lot quicker. And schools are strength and conditioning programmes put in

place, sometimes guys are coming straight out of school and they are ready to step in and play

professional rugby straight away. So, that’s evolving all the time but by in large the pattern would be

to come out and play with your club and then move on and try get selected for Munster you know.

But say just looking at that pathway now and I know suppose given the fact that it is coming

into other sports as well where they are saying that some of the people participating are getting

so much physically stronger, the hits are getting harder and that really the professional careers

now are starting probably at a younger age say 18. Some lads I suppose aren’t even making

university and they are probably starting with the Academy and stuff like that. Do you see

there like, they should probably given the nature of the hits and the nature of the injuries

involved in rugby which aren’t really going to lessen in the next couple of years. Do you see

issues arising out of that where people see now, some rugby players would be retiring at say 27.

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Am, I don’t think so. You are right in that saying players are going to start younger and younger but

if players look after themselves well they can get, it’s not just that players that are getting bigger and

bigger and stronger and stronger they are also, you know the medical side of it is getting better as well

so helping improving players, preventing getting injured and then moving on from there. So it is kind

of moving forward on two fronts but it probably, people are noticing just how many more injuries are

there all the time now these days but ah. I think that, I can’t tell you if players are going to be retiring

at 27 to be honest I don’t know.

Yeah, yeah, I suppose just looking at it, given if you look at your own say career where you

retired, you retired probably earlier than you thought you were going to retire when you started

off your career. I suppose most rugby players would have said 35 or 36 is probably...

Its XXX not, 35 or 36 is a good ending in professional rugby, like I ended up retiring at 33 which I

kind of went look, I kind of broke onto the, it’s about miles on the clock really you know and for me

my miles on the clock were, I started playing national rugby at 26, a lot of the lads, you look at

someone like Christian Cullen. Christian Cullen would have started playing international rugby at 19

for the All Blacks and Cully would have retired probably at 31 or so you know. I didn’t have as many

miles on the clock, I started later but once I started playing at a high level then injuries started

cropping up a lot quicker you know.

Again, just going back to the point I was making, given the fact that fellas are starting younger

say that even some of the lads now in the Academy would be starting at an earlier age than

yourself, that it is probably foreseeable that they will on average, that they will probably start

hitting an earlier retirement age. Given the fact that, as you say there miles on the clock will

start affecting their bodies and their performance and injuries and stuff like that.

It is definitely possible. I can’t say if it is going to happen or not but it is possible yes.

And you can see that, that would, given the fact now that I suppose you are of a say, I suppose

people in their 30’s are of a higher maturity then say lads in their 20’s, I suppose we were all 27

at one stage and you wouldn’t exactly be of the settling down mentality, that, that could possibly

cause bigger problems for the likes of somebody say retiring from the professional game at 27.

That is a fair point, a lot of the lads are, you know if you are in your 30’s you have a little bit more life

experience and you can handle retirement a bit better. If players, when players do have to retire

young it is going to be a bit more difficult for them to take but I suppose that’s XXX life in that I do

not know for sure whether this thing is going to kick off in the end but it probably is a little bit more

difficult for some of the younger lads. Particularly lads who have to retire if they haven’t felt that

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they kind of realised their potential in the sport you know, if they feel like they had unfinished

business and they can carry that for a while after they retire but ...

Yeah, that certainly carries through in some of the stuff that I have been reading anyway is that

at least success in the sport that they have chosen mitigates to some degree, the retirement, the

effects of retirement upon then. I suppose you were very successful so I suppose looking back at

it you know the results when you look back, what you have given up for the sport might be

outweighed by, you know it can be offset by the results that you achieved say through the sport.

Yeah.

Considering everything both on and off the field how much did you enjoy playing sport? 1

being not very much 7 loved it.

7 that I loved it?

Yeah.

7.

What valuable opportunities did taking part in sport offer you such as travel, meeting people

and job opportunities?

Yeah, I got to travel an awful lot with the sport . I learnt an awful lot with regards, I learnt a lot about

myself and what I was capable of doing and made a lot of friends, had a lot of fun. I made a few quid

from it as well and I gained a bit of profile which helps when you are trying to do business afterwards.

The biggest thing is just the work ethic,that is the biggest thing I can take from rugby.

So just thinking back to your first major competitive honour when you turned professional.

What was that?

My first major competitive honour?

Yeah.

I don’t really know what you are asking me, are you asking me my like first thing that I ever won?

No, when you turned professional say with Munster say at that time.

What do you mean by an honour, do you mean like a trophy?

A trophy yeah.

I suppose the first trophy we, when I was professional .The first major, major thing I won was I

suppose was probably the Triple Crown with Ireland in 2006, that is probably the best one I can give

you, you know. I won things before but I think this would probably make it easier to pinpoint.

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Ok, and after the win did you begin to think about other career goals?

No, well you are always thinking like, rugby you are constantly assessing every single week, you

know it is not like you have a goal and then you leave it off. Like you train Monday to Friday and

then you pretty much go out and you get pissed then on the Saturday and you know whether that week

has been a success or a failure then you know. And you just go then and the thing is to go ok what

can I do to get better now next week and then you start training again Monday to Friday or you know

if you had a good week you would go ok I want to make it even better or , there is no such thing as

like, you are constantly assessing and seeing what is the next thing because there is a test every single

week. You might not play a game every week but that’s your goal and then you got long terms goals

so when we won the Triple Crown in 2006 the next thing on was the next match the following week,

we had to win that and then we were leading into the European Cup Quarter Final 2 or 3 weeks later

which we had to try build back into. That’s why momentum is such a big thing in sport because you

can get on a wining buzz it kind of infiltrates everything you do.

So every week you kind of set yourself a new goal. So it wasn’t so much honours it was just to

get better every week?

Yeah, yeah, every day try and get better. You try and. You might have some stuff say I want to start

getting, I wanna get a whole lot stronger and I would say I would give myself, that would be a goal

over the next 7 or 8 weeks. You might have a goal saying I want to be you know the first choice in

my position for my country and that maybe an 18 months kind of a thing and then you might have a

small thing like say now I want to up my percentages in a line out and I am going to do extra work

and I am going to break that down into a short term goal and say I want to start doing an extra two

sessions on line out throwing every single week as well you know and then at the end of each day you

suss to see well how did I do today and how can I get better and what was my diet like did I. You

know was I tight with my diet or did I get sloppy or how can I get better you know and you are

constantly looking, it is so competitive you are constantly looking for any edge that you can get. If it

just means that you know, you eat more vegetable at breakfast because you know it helps you, you

feel better later on in the day in your second training session, you’ll try that you know. I don’t think

you can even definitely try.

The demands, it is unbelievable I suppose when you are looking on it as a sport you forget about

the kind of every day grind.

It is not a grind because it’s XXX, that’s the best thing about it man like if you can go into a job

where you are completely in control of how successful you are going to be, or how successful you

will be prepared to be that’s what it is like, I mean if you go in and just bust your ass Monday to

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Friday every single week you go on the field with absolutely no fears you know. What the XXX am I

going to be afraid of, I mean I have trained my bXllocks off I have done everything I can and I am

pretty sure that the guy I am marking won’t have done that and if he has XXX fair play to him but it

just makes you really confident, you know coming out of rugby when you apply that stuff to ordinary

life you have to be patient because it doesn’t, you know, everyday life outside of something like

professional rugby doesn’t , it’s not as reactive in that like you don’t get that I won or I played well at

the weekend on a Saturday to work out whether your week was good or not you know. So, it’s one of

my favourite parts of sport. It weeds out bluffers and people who hide as well.

So your goal setting since you have moved out of professional sport has changed say your goal

setting say where you know you have now to take into account you are not dealing in a rugby

atmosphere anymore so you have to take that into account now with your own business say.

You still set goals. It’s just that very rarely at the end of the week you go that was a complete success

because. If I need to up my tackle account at the weekend I will get out there and I will work my

XXX bXllocks off to try and up my tackle account and I will have a direct impact on it. Whereas, if I

say I want to get the fucking turnover up at the business I go try, I do a few bits and pieces, I can’t

directly get a piece of woven pipe and hunt people into the business you know. There is a little bit

more of a lag in those things you know. But am it’s still, you just have to apply the same concept but

you just have to be a bit more patient.

I understand. Just going back to when ye did make, say when ye had your first success did they

place any extra demands on you say from your own say when you won the Triple Crown were

there any extra demands put upon you after that? Say media wise ..

There would be more media work but it’s am, it’s not really a big deal because you are always like,

when you win something it kind of reinforces, you get kind of an affirmation of like, XXX what I am

doing is right you know, all this training I am doing is right for me and it is working and you know it

just spurs you on and you want to get more success and more and more and more and that’s it, it is

like a drug you just , all you want to do is just keep winning all the time, every XXX trophy you can

because you start then like XXX my career isn’t going to go on all the time so I have to win as much

shit as I can. That’s what you strive for when you finish you know. Some say oh he was a great

player, well what the XXX did he win? He didn’t win anything, he might have been a good player but

he didn’t have a successful career. And if you want to be remembered like I grew up with all these

guys like dad was bringing me down to watch Shannon games and I grew up watching Keith Earl’s

father play and fellas from Young Munsters and fellas from Garryowen and fellas from Shannon and

Thomond and I would look up to fellas all the time because I thought they were great players and they

won things and that’s what you wanna do, you wanna end up when you look back on your career

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saying well what did I get out of my career and you say I won as much as I could and I was honest

and my team mates respected me and that’s as good as you can get.

Say, just going back to the demands there was there any demands that you found stressful say

that you weren’t comfortable with say in your career?

Ah, I get XXX pissed off people asking me for tickets , that can be XXX annoying but apart from that

it’s fine. Everything else is fine.

Say looking now at the players coming through now and obviously as you were inclined to

discuss there the media attention around rugby is kind of increasing every year and I suppose

the professionalism is increasing every year as well. Do you have any suggestions on how, when

they come to retire or say during their career how they can better cope say with some of the

demands placed upon ye?

I suppose having, I was very lucky in that when I played, social media wasn’t really a big part of it.

And you know it definitely, it grew as it went on but the big thing I think is if you got a lot of lads

there you need kind of a mentor in the sport you know. A mentor somebody who has got an objective

view of where you are in your career and they give a shxt about you, it’s not, the biggest thing is for

lads to be happy themselves and if they are happy they will play well. Now happy means you are not

fighting with your Mrs and shit like that you know and ah if they can get into a good place there then

the rugby will go a lot better as well. I think that you know for players to, the psychology part of the

sport is a big thing and you know I was lucky in that I, a lot of lads when I came into the team, a lot of

the lads were like, they were my best friends and they were all very clued in so if I did something

stupid they would pull me up and say what the fxck are you doing man cop on and I just you know, I

didn’t feel like I was being spoken down to I felt like I had a mate looking out for me. If I had come

into the team and I was 19 and the rest of the lads were all 29, 30, 32 it is a lot harder then. Because

the guys who are 32 don’t want to be telling a 19 year old you know listen, you know you feel like he

is being talked down to whereas when a mate tells you listen you gotta mind your neck there or cop

on or do something you don’t feel you are being talked down to its more oh I better heed this advice

or he wouldn’t have said it to me otherwise. So from that prospective getting a kind of a mentor

whether it’s somebody in your family or something like that, someone who will give you, you know

pretty consistent, objective feedback as to where you are and how they think you are getting on, you

know give you a steer as to, you know just someone that you can trust and who can give you a bit of

guidance when it is required.

So say, did you have any, and I think this is one of the questions you had a problem with on the

questionnaire. Did you have any non-sport identities, say when you were playing sport did you,

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did everyone just see you as a rugby star or did people see you in a different perspective you

know.

I don’t know what people saw me as but I know that when you are out and about a lot of people will

come up to you and they will, they will just know you from playing rugby. They don’t actually know

what I am like and they think that you are a good guy and stuff like that. I could be a complete prxck

but they don’t know that you know. And am you are kind of playing a little bit of a caricature of

yourself in that like, not a caricature you are playing a character for people a little bit if they come up

to say how are you and you chat with them but they don’t know you, you know. And it’s just

important that it’s your career on the line, you just have to know that people mean well but their

opinion on you isn’t very important because they don’t actually know you, you know so. They come

up to you when you play well and say Jesus you are a great fella you know. Then when you play

badly the same people say you are shxt you know. But they don’t really matter because they kind of,

they don’t know you in the first place, they don’t know what is going on and they just flit in and out.

You know by in large I feel that I was lucky in that Munster supporters have always been very, very

good to me and the same with Irish supporters so. But it is definitely something that players need to

be sort of wary of going along and I was lucky in that I had a lot of, like I said again, a lot of the lads

down there with me when I played with Munster who were very clued in and they would give you a

steering, when you play well for a while don’t let all those people pump your tyres up if you know

what I mean, don’t take any heed of it, people will be telling you, you are great but you are not, they

don’t know you from Adam, they just saw you playing well at the weekend, in a game. And you know

telling you, you are great and a great fella but you just have to have a good solid kind of inner circle

of friends and family and they will give you feedback if you are losing the run of yourself, if you are

being too hard on yourself they will say listen just stay on the right track and all your goals will come

around.

You invested a lot in the sport I suppose, is there anything that you have invested that you think

you can’t recover from the sport? Say is there much that you have missed out on say do you

feel in life because of it?

No, no I probably didn’t. No, I don’t have anything to complain over I think it’s, the sport has always

been good for me and I enjoyed it and.


To keep competing?

Yeah.

What do you mean?

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As in say, I know that say from the way you have spoken there, you have set goals for yourself

every week but at any stage in your career did you just say look yeah I am a bit sick of it now

but I will keep going because there is a certain expectation, my family are proud of me and they

want me to keep...

No, No. I suppose you are aware that there is a slight, you feel a slight kind of obligation and that like

when I was injured all the time and my parents used to enjoy going to the games so much and then

when I was injured you know, obviously it was difficult for them as well but that is not really logical.

The main thing is keep yourself right mentally and physically and if you can’t keep going, you can’t

keep going and you know parents and yourself just be thankful for what you got from the sport.

You got a lot of obviously encouragement from your family and friends throughout the sport?

Yeah, they were very good, they were very good. Probably from my mother’s point of view she

found it a bit difficult when I was retiring because I dunno it was a big part of her social life as well

going to games and stuff like that. She may have felt that you know that was going to go. And but by

in large I got an awful lot of support and it was all very good.

Ok, that is very interesting. That is interesting in that your family were, I know, I suppose.

Like am when you did announce your retirement, had you thought about it, obviously you had

the re-occurrence of the injury ...

Yeah, I had spoken to everyone because I knew it was coming for a while. I had been injured for

years and it was coming along and I knew it was looming there for a while and I was aware of the

possibility. For a long time I didn’t even consider retiring. I wouldn’t consider it at all and then

eventually I just had to, I spoke to one of my friends who had retired before me, he had an injury and

he just said, look once you are actually accept it, you know, what is the worst case scenario, you are

retired ok, you are insured, you don’t get to play anymore but you know if you look after yourself you

can still train and still do a lot of other things and you know so when you accept that then you kind of

go back and you can actually go back to rehabbing and trying to get fit without having to be you know

, too, it’s not like a big black cloud hovering over you and when you do, when I did decide to retire it

was like am, I had spoken to my parents, spoken to my friends and family and you know for the day

that you retire it is tough. It’s tough because it is emotional and stuff like that. You have a lot of

people contacting you and saying really nice things to you and its tough, it’s tough from a good point

of view in that like you know if I was working in a job where I retired after 10 years and I did feel like

wow I miss this job so much “It’s such a great job” but I just had to be philosophical and say I know

so many lads who get the sport taken away from them so young with bad injuries but I was lucky

enough to play for so long and to have so much, so many good memories, I made so many good

friends that, I was just very grateful for all the time I got. I hate to hear older players who have played

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for fxcking 15 years and they kind of go, oh I am just you know, it is really hard on me and I know

sometimes you need to be a bit like cautious but I am like shut the fxck up man, stop whinging you

know what I mean.

Looking back there on some of the stuff that you said earlier like about when you were setting

goals and stuff like that, rugby is such a physical game and it’s a game of strength both

physically and mentally. Do you think that, and you said there that you didn’t really want to

face up to retirement I suppose earlier on in your career even though, from the day you start

you probably know there is only X amount of years in the game, that, do you feel from your

own prospective that part of not thinking about retirement was the fact that it might show a

weakness or it might illustrate that you couldn’t go out to the pitch to say this could be my last

game because if I wreck my knee here it is all over you know..

Yeah, yeah, in relation to when I said I didn’t consider retirement you are correct in what you are

saying is that ah you don’t want to entertain the idea of having to retire because it maybe is that you

are almost entertaining losing or entertaining like what if I don’t win, what if I end up not going back

but my thing was, the last 2 years of my career were just interspersed with constant injury all the time

so it’s not like I was playing, all the time I was rehabbing to get back and I was getting very frustrated

and I was going when the fxck is this injury going to come right for me and eventually I just had to, I

sat down with my mate and we just considered well look if it doesn’t come right this is what’s going

to happen, well look that is the worst case scenario so then let’s get on with the fxcking thing so, you

know let’s get it right.

It was only say with the injury, in the last 2 years that it really entered your mind say?

Yeah, yeah, you don’t think about it otherwise you know. Like they mention it to you but it is the

same for every young player, you think you are bullet proof and you never think you are going to

have to retire and at the end of every year one of the lads gets up and you know he makes a speech

and it’s a fxcking hugely emotional thing for him and for his team mates. If he is 33 or 34 then there

is team mates that played with him for 10 years, it is really tough for them as well. Young fellas who

are in the squad and they just see them and go yeah, yeah that guy is retired, what is the big deal but

they will be there in a few years hopefully as well you know. That’s just the way. That is the cycle

of sport.

Was there much of a structure in place to help you with your post sports career development?

Yeah, there was yeah. Hamish Adams and IRUPA put together a good kind of, preparing players for

when they retire and I found Hamish in IRUPA outstanding. He met with me all the time you know

and he helped me with regards to, like I was preparing stuff for business. Business stuff I was

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preparing myself, I had kind of gotten involved in a few different businesses and which the main thing

as a rugby player you have a profile but it is also good for you to get involved in the real world as

well, you appreciate your job more like you know when I got involved in the business I appreciated

ok this is graft here in the business you know and I had a bit more freedom. When I am playing

whereas rugby is kind of you might have fxcking 80,000 people watching and you can’t fxck up but

it’s for 2 hours you know whereas with the business you are open from fxcking ten o’clock to fxcking

half twelve that night you know. You mightn’t do as much but it is a different kind of graft. But

mainly I found IRUPA very good from the point of view of just mentally preparing you for all these

little things and you know when you are in, even when you retire you don’t want people coming up to

you saying oh, I am so sorry for you, no-one wants to feel pity. I would be like fxck you I would

rather you didn’t like me than feel sorry for me. And I know people mean well by it but if you are

naturally competitive you never want people to feel sorry for you and that’s why when I retired my

big thing was like, when people said ah I am sorry you retired, I say don’t feel sorry man I had a

fxcking incredible career, I had a brilliant laugh, I was very, very lucky, I had loads of friends, I had a

brilliant time so it is more celebrate it yeah.

Do you feel and I suppose I think I know the answer to this question. Do you have any

unresolved feelings or emotions about retirement?

Not really, no, no I am fine with it, I am completely fine with it. I would have loved to have played a

bit longer, you know I still feel sometimes when I am training now I go XXX it would be good to get

back but I know that the last 2 years of my career were mentally very, very hard on me because I was

working my bxllocks off and getting nowhere with my injury you know. And that is something that I

had never come across in rugby and I was getting bitter towards the sport and then that was it I

actually thought, I spoke to my mate about retiring and I said look I think I am going to have to retire

my XXX is XXX and I went out then and I just said to the National Coach, look I said I am going to

go out and train on Monday, I said I do not know if my XXX is right but if it XXX goes it goes I am

happy with that, if I play well pick me, if I don’t play well don’t pick me but I said I can no longer

keep rehabbing something without ever knowing if I am going to make it or not and I went out and I

started back playing and they monitored me and I took it easy but it was just, it was like a when you

pick up a ball when you were 7 or 8 years of age, I was back playing with all the lads and I loved it

and even though there was a kind of a clock ticking on me, that it was only a matter of time before my

XXX again I enjoyed the time so much it made me realise how much I loved the game and then 4 or 5

weeks into that I kind of went holy fxck I think I am actually ok, I don’t think I am going to have to

retire at all and I savoured every minute we had, whenever we trained, whenever we did anything, all

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the little mundane things that you would often over look I fxcking loved every single one of them and

then when I got injured again I was very philosophical, I said well I spent 2 years working my

bxllocks off and getting nothing out of the sport what I felt was nothing, I thought I had to retire, I

was bitter at the sport and suddenly out of nowhere I got another 5 or 6 weeks playing for Ireland,

playing with my team mates and you know I said I am after getting that now and I am not going to

finish like fxcking angry at the sport, I am very happy for all the time I had.

You had support from your peers, close friends, club and province I imagine through it all, like

you were able to?

Yeah, yeah there was, well I am lucky again like I said to you a few of my friends had gone through a

lot of some big injuries as well and ah I had spoken to them and they talked me through you know the

physical side of it, the mental side of it, a lot of things that are important in there and you know my

friends as well like my friends from when I was a kid who none of them play rugby but they all

supported me playing rugby but they knew me before I played rugby for Munster or Ireland and they

just knew me as XXX and it didn’t matter whether I was playing rugby or not. It was really good to

have that kind of ah that support, that social support structure around you.

Yeah, so you had a different identity to them say which obviously helped them transition I

suppose they are probably in the mundane 9 to 5 jobs. Did that help you know because they

were saying well now you are kind of joining us in a different role?

No, no they didn’t do that. They always knew me as XXX and the fact that I played rugby they saw

me going from their friend that just played to getting on the Munster and Irish team and then people

were getting to know you, like people would come up to you, you have sort of a bigger profile then

but they always treated me the exact same because I was always just XXX who played rugby with

them or XXX their friend that they hung around with. So some people will too closely link the sport

with their own identity and when they no longer play the sport they feel like who the fxck am I

anymore you know. And that didn’t happen me because I have a good group of mates and I have a

good group of friends and ah even in fairness with a lot of the lads like I play with Munster we all see

the value in each other beyond playing sport and that is a good thing as well. I say to them a lot of the

time since I retired I realise just how you know, it’s not the fact that I was a good rugby player, that I

was successful I was good at rugby because I fucking worked my bxllocks so therefore whatever

industry or whatever I decide to turn my hand to now I just work my bxllocks off and I will be

fxcking brilliant at it as well you know. It is a pretty simple kind of a logic to apply to something you

know and I would say to my friends in Munster as well, I would say, lads there is nothing to fear

about retirement because when you turn the work ethic that you have from rugby and you apply that

in the real world you just fxcking blow people away you know.

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Just out of a matter of interest, you haven’t been approached to speak to any of the younger

members of say the Academies in relation to discussion about retirement I suppose, like you

know a lot of the themes and stuff and in the research I have done there like you seem to have

indentified athletic identity as a big thing which is ah, which is one of the main causes of

concern say for people when they retire...

If lads come from a solid background, have a good social support structure, family and friends and ah

you know that’s the rock and then you go forward and you can venture out and you can rip into sport.

I haven’t been asked to go and speak to anyone about retirement, I have gone and spoken to the team

a couple of times since I have retired but not on the subject of retirement.

Are we nearly done, I am under a bit of time pressure here man.

About another minute.

Have you any therapeutic preventions, you had no counselling or anything had you?

Ah, we had a Sport Psychologist, I used to use him quite a lot. And I found him very, very good,

because like I said to you, like a Mentor someone who is objective, who is there in the room and all

they are just there, they are just there to talk to you about how you are and I found it that the big thing

is if I was happy, like if I had a fxcking, you know if I was happy myself then I had no problems with

rugby. Sometimes I would go in and I would just sit there and bitch about people for about fxcking

10 minutes and I would get it off my chest, I would be like that guy is a fxcking prick, he is annoying

me and he would sit there, and then we would go through and then I would say yeah, ok, maybe he is

not that much of a prxck then, I was just a bit worked up and then I would come out of the place

feeling very good and very relaxed and ah. You know during my injuries as well then like I used to go

into him constantly angry, you know I was fxcking just really, really angry so I just wanted to fucking

kill people and wanted to blame people for my injury and ah then when I kind of came out of that and

when I got back playing, I remember one week we had a session and I was just completely calm you

know and very happy and it is only when you do that you can tell how angry you really were

beforehand. But yeah, I used to see the Sports Psychologist and mainly just chatting with close

friends you know.

Look, xxx I will let you go at that, look I appreciate the time that you gave me.

No worries man, no worries.

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8.

Ok, and how old were you when you started playing Rugby Union?

12.

How old were you when you turned professional?

21.

And the Provincial Clubs you played for in Ireland, Connaught?

Connaught and Munster.

Have you ever played professionally outside of Ireland?

Yes.

And that was in XXX?

XXX, yeah.

XXX only was it?

That’s it yeah.

Were you, did you play at a high stage amateur wise or were you always say professional say

once it got to ..

Yeah, I played with XXX.

XXX?

Yeah, XXXX was the..

Before you went professional say?

For a year.


The contact element of the game.

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Say, but was it, your parents weren’t involved in it brother or sister or it was just you were the

first one.

No, no yep.

And it was with XXX was it that you were..

No, XXX.

And was that say in primary school say or start of secondary school or?

It would have been just end of primary yeah.

And the secondary school you went to was there rugby in ..

No, no, no rugby in XXX.

Did you have an athletic hero growing up?

Did I have an athletic hero? No.

What was the most important thing that kept you playing rugby all those years?

I suppose the most important thing, am, all the years before I turned professional is it or?

No, say, say, say even from day one say was there anything that overwhelmingly made you want

to keep playing rugby the whole way through?

It was the one I was best at.

Ok.

Yeah. That was basically it. That was basically the decision I made at 18.

Ok. So you were playing other sports?

Yeah.

Did you play any individual sports? Were you involved in any sort of tennis or running or?

No.

Ok. Did the team aspect of rugby in anyway contribute to or like I suppose all the other sports

you were involved in were team sports as well, which would probably have been hurling or

football.

Mm, yeah.

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Ok. What do you find most enjoyable about playing rugby?

Winning.

You played at club, provincial, international and I don’t think you played, you didn’t play

touring sides.

I have played, against touring sides or for touring sides?

For touring sides?

Yeah, we went on tour yeah.

How long did your professional career last?

11 years.

And for what reason did you retire, was it voluntary or involuntary?

Am, a bit of both really.

Ok, in so far as injuries?

Injuries yeah and ..

Involuntary?

Involuntary, I just had enough.

You had enough, did the injuries play a part in you having enough?

Yes, it would yeah.

Had you been injured for long?

I was out for a year, my last season I didn’t play anything so it kinda made up my mind really.

Ok. But there was still say..

But I could have come back and played yeah.

You could have come back at that stage but you carried the injury and that was..

Yeah.

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relation to same at what age did you begin your competitive sports career and how successful

was it in its initial stages? So just go back to your rugby say..

Underage with XXXX, yeah, it was a winning mentality straight away.

Ok.

And very successful yeah underage with XXXX and hurling and soccer I would have been ..

And when you say the winning mentality was that team or was that always part of your ..

Ah, yeah, it would have been me on a personal basis yeah.

And do you think that, that is part of the reason that you have stayed involved in rugby?

Ah, it would yeah, definitely, definitely yeah.

What was your main goal when you started participating in sport?

To play, to play hurling for Limerick was my goal.

It’s funny the way life turns out isn’t it?

It is, it’s gas yeah.

And say when you started say, when rugby started to become a main part of your life did you

establish any goals in relation to that?

Oh, I wanted to play for Ireland. You know from about 14, 15 years of age that was my goal to play

for Ireland.

And did you play representative at any underage level?

Yeah. Youths which, would have been club under 18s and then Irish 21s.

And is it fair to say....

And Munster 20s as well obviously.

And is it fair to say that when you, when you said you wanted to play for Ireland at 14, 15 was it

recognised that you had ability at that age say was it...

I kind of knew myself yeah, yeah and I knew personally myself that...

That it was something you could achieve yeah?

Yeah, yeah.

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It is not like the Man United soccer thing?

Oh yeah..

So yours was a bit more...

Yeah after about 2 or 3 years of playing, I was Jesus I am playing better than these players and better

then everything else and at a higher level than them and that was the, that was the goal.

Yeah, yeah good and by your commitment to sport we mean your desire and determination to

keep going at what you do best and that is to keep on winning. Were results important to you at

the beginning and why?

Yes they were.

Is there a reason, did it just help you strive or?

Yeah. It justified, it justified playing.

And by the playing you mean the sacrifices was it or the training?

Am,

Or did it justify..

No, I just felt that you know if I was playing I was playing to win so then it justified actually making

the commitment to play yeah.

Yeah. Considering both everything on and off the field how much did you enjoy playing sport

with 1 being not very much and 7 loving it?

Ah, about 6, what is 6?

6 is probably just below loving it.

Just loving it?

With maybe one or two issues maybe ..

Yeah, yeah.

Ah, what valuable opportunities did taking part in sport offer you say as in regards travel,

meeting people, job opportunities?

All the above.

All the above?

Yeah. Everything, it opened up your mind from you know, obviously moving from Limerick and the

whole lot and just different ways of life, different cultures just kind of learning life basically.

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When you say it opened your mind ah, but did it open your mind say beyond rugby if you know

what I mean did it...

Yes.

It did yeah, you were ..

Yeah, because again it wasn’t just. That would be one of the things that from going away even to

play elsewhere it just opened your mind up to, ok you are not, like the guys that I played with, with

Munster, I was with Munster for 5 years and when I retired there was still the same guys in the same

place so for about 12, 13 years playing for Munster and it is like a little fish bowl and you are kind of

conditioned into one kind of way of thinking. So am,

Because I know in some of the theory that comes out is sort of that because you have committed

so much to the sport you may become a bit insular and you may become, you may lose..

No, no I never did. I always had the when I am playing I am playing. When I am training I am

training and I am away from rugby you know.

But when you were playing say and obviously and it will be in one of the questions later on is

you possibly may have contemplated at some stage, I am not physically, I won’t be able to play

rugby. Did you have any plans say or like would you be interested in getting involved in

business or anything like that, was there anything that..

Oh yeah, once after, what was it, when I started hitting around 27, 28 before that you think it will

never end about 27, 28 and then with injuries and I have had a lot of injuries over my career they kind

of am the bit of reality kicks in and you know the realisation you get older and you know you kind of

cop on as well I suppose. You kind of know that it is not going to be forever that you have to have a

plan for, you know you see some of the other stories especially in soccer and stuff like that.

Yeah, yeah so when you say, did you, so you had obviously thought about it, did you do

anything in relation to it? Like had you started like, had you started like getting involved in any

businesses or ..

Yes.

Yeah you had, so you had started to kind of broaden your..

Yes, business and obviously I wanted to like for I would say about 4 years, maybe 3 years before I

retired I knew I wanted to be a Coach.

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Can I ask was it the fact that, did that hunger come from the time you were in XXX or was it

before that say the coaching am ..

No , it would have been when I went to XXX.

XXX?

XXX, yeah, when I went back to XXX.

And was there any reason why, was there any reason that came into your head just to go or was

it just that you loved the game so much that it was..

Well, it’s not that I loved the game so much as such. It’s just that I knew, I knew that because I did a

bit of coaching with the younger players in XXX because when I was out injured then I would be

more of a senior player and the whole lot that I was going to be asked you know to do these things

and you know bit by bit I kind of realised you know I am quite good at it, and it was something I

wanted to do.

Yeah, yeah. Just coming back to. Just sorry now. Thinking back to your first major

competitive honour when you turned professional, what was that?

First major competitive honour?

When you turned professional.

As in getting selected or?

Yeah. Even like say your first cap or something like that.

Oh, yeah well my first cap for Munster I suppose.

Ok. Yeah.

Yeah. That would have been my first as a pro.

And how did you feel and what were you thinking about prior to that contest? I know it is

going back now.

Am, just wanted to do my best and enjoy it that was basically it and wanted to win.

So after your first say cap did you start setting any other goals for yourself or was it?

When I, yeah it was just bit by bit then once I knew I got to reach the first cap with Munster then it

was just a case of getting, the next stage then would have been short term goals of getting yourself

into a regular on team, getting used to that and then moving on again and again so yeah I did have

little plans in place.

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Ok. But they were kind of short term plans where you didn’t start...

Yeah, they were short term but, they were short term it was just bit by bit with the long term goal of

playing for Ireland.

Ok.

Yeah. That was always the goal.

Ok.

And, and from a young age I knew that one I had to play for XXX if I wanted that, then I had to go

from XXX to Munster then Munster to Ireland. So I knew that there was a stepping stone to it.

Say after your first cap did life change in any big way for you. Was there, was there any extra

demands placed upon you?

Am. I suppose looking back on it now yes there was. Am you are in the public eye, so from, within

rugby you know there is more pressure on you to perform, there is more work for you to do because

you are expected to do it. And on the outside then you know you are in the public eye and you kind

of have to make sure you don’t...

You have a persona to, that you have to carry and stuff like that?

Yeah.

When you say you am, you had more work to do was that on the pitch or say or were there

other duties say that came with it?

Ah, I would have been yeah obviously the media stuff and stuff like going to clubs and doing this and

doing that and photo shoots and all that kind of that was all starting to kick off at the time because you

know it was it had started back then anyway but on the pitch then you were expected to do more

because you were you know you were more..

Yeah you were seen, you were meant to lead by example say?

Yeah.

Were you prepared to deal with the additional demands, were ye offered any sort of coaching in

relation to say in relation to the media side of it?

Not really, no, no it was very am it was all just thrown together really compared to what it is now.

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Yeah. My next question as going to be was that because professionalism is still kind of in its

infancy and ..

It was, was it only 4, 5 I think it was 5 years..

1996 I think.

1996 it kicked off and this Was 1999/2000 so everything was just, just taking shape.

Just I suppose, you probably, you experienced really the transition am from rugby say from an

amateur level to a professional level. And I suppose rugby always kind of has this family

connotation say you know families go to watch games and stuff like that and I suppose did you

see much am, I suppose movement into professionalism then, an element of that had to fall to

the side I suppose because people were, de-selection became a kind of a more am, fellas were

being de-selected more or less from their job for all intent and purposes if you weren’t making

the grade you were fired for want of a better phrase or you may lose your contract and

obviously there was more pressure on players.

There was yeah.

Did you see, was that am, was that difficult to kind of a thing where you were playing with a

fella and you knew he tried but maybe you know he just wasn’t getting nowhere.

No, No. For me personally no. It was basically every, it was like everything you said it is every fella

for himself. You know at the end of the day so it didn’t put any extra pressure it was just, it was just

there.

Ok. And just say but when it became say your livelihood there was obviously an extra pressure

there because obviously ..

Oh there is yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

You can’t be worrying about what, you know you can’t let that affect you basically yeah.

Ok, ok.

But that’s the challenge a lot of people it does affect so that is the thing.

Yeah, ok , you probably touched on it there with the kind of the media interest and stuff had, it

gets more and more and I suppose everything now is kind of quicker and everything like that.

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Do you have any suggestions that might help other professional rugby union players who will

face a similar situation as regards from your first cap say and how they can better cope say?

Am, what could I say. Nothing really you know they can at the end of the day it was a great time you

know to be, to be where I was. No, it’s all about you know while it does happen you have to, I would

say you know just stick to what got you there and keep going you know and that’s the true test of

being a professional. Whereas there are a lot of people that kind of get there and you know then they

go off the rails and do this and do that and all that kind of stuff and they lose the focus. So it is just

about, you know when you get there it is all about staying there then you know.

And say your coaching role is that I suppose in your teens and I am not going to ask you to

identify you seen players probably with a lot of potential that you could say not every player

will obviously will have.

You can bracket your team, you can bracket players or groups of players into different brackets you

know and it’s all about you know trying to get from my point of view trying to get the best out of all

of them but you know, you would know of certain guys who do have potential to go forward then you

would worry then would they have the mental capacity to actually handle it.

Ok. And just do ye do anything as a club to try and develop that, that mental capacity say?

We ah, yeah. We do yeah we have a Sports Psychologist who would work at obviously specifically

rugby but obviously then they transition to how to marry the two together between you know proper

life and then the rugby itself.

Ok. And then say from your own perspective has there been anyone you personally say

identified with or tried to say take under your wing say to develop them because obviously you

have been through the experience and you understand it?

Oh yeah, they again, from a coaching point of view you don’t, me personally I don’t get too close to

the players it’s just but you know you have, there has been a number of guys that you do have a chat

with and try to get, give them instead of telling them what to do or telling them what they should do

you know you try to give them, you know the experiences that I went through you know you try to get

your point across that way. But again at the end of the day you can’t me personally I don’t get too

close to the players but you try to help them as much as you can by giving them the information but

not to...

Yeah, yeah I understand.

You know that kind of way.

That you are not preaching down to them?

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Yeah.

I, and we just kinda touched on this earlier on. Did you have any non sport identities when you

were playing say, like sport wasn’t all consuming for you I think you had already said like you,

you had other interests outside of it?

Oh I did yeah.

You weren’t playing any other sports at the time no?

No.

But just say on a social side you were...

Yeah on a social side and the whole lot and friends that would have nothing to do with rugby and all

that kind of stuff and ..

You invested a lot in getting to a professional level of rugby is there anything that you invested

that you can’t get back or that kind of am?

My body! Yeah, yeah that would be, it’s in the last couple of years now it is starting to break down.

It was breaking down while I was playing but now there is arthritis, everything you know..

The issues have ..

Yeah, which is a lot you know a lot younger than a guy that wouldn’t have played the game.

Yeah.

So that would be it am other than that...

Like I suppose and what some of the research is showing now is that with the players starting

younger and I suppose and they probably every second newspaper every second article

mentions about players getting bigger in size and the hits are getting more and more and that

retirement will probably start affecting players..

Like you know am, you know the days of playing for like me personally I played for 11 years and

there are guys then that played for 12, 13 it is getting very similar to the NFL you know as a three

year cycle. I know guys, young fellas that were in XXX with me and they were gone at 24, 25 you

know they had a couple of years of it and the body just broke down so it is getting, it is getting ..

So you can see that and even say in your own club I know that the level is slightly down but I

suppose that if a fella hits you, a fella hits you like you know..

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Oh yeah, it’s still like you know it is still going to have the same effect on you no matter what you

know.


Am sometimes yeah you would have played, well not necessarily for other people but just for your

sake, for your own sake you know yourself, you know if, very rarely a rugby player plays a 100% (fit)

because there is always something. But not necessarily for anyone else but for myself yeah I would

have gone through it to play.

Did you feel a lot of encouragement and support from other people when you were..?

Oh yeah, yeah.

Maybe family and say..

Family yeah, coaches and team mates the whole lot yeah.

And the time you transitioned say to XXX was that a difficult decision for you or did you see it

as a development?

Yeah. It was time for me to go from Munster am purely from a rugby point of view. I wasn’t

playing, I wasn’t getting a game so again and that would have been something that wouldn’t have

been done very often back then and that was XXXX I think. So it was a case of if you played, if you

were with Munster you were with Munster for life and that was the thing but you know one or two

other guys followed me after that in relation to it’s like soccer if you are not getting a game

somewhere you can go somewhere else and get a game it’s a professional game.

You were still competitive it wasn’t a case of I just want to get paid, it was just the

competitiveness came out?

Yeah there is no point and there are a lot of guys out there who would be happy just to play to be

involved with Munster or to be involved with XXX or any of the teams like that and they go back and

play with their clubs and there would have always be a squad there. They will never be you know..

Exactly and that is ...

They would be at that level and they might be happy with that was something I wasn’t happy with

especially after playing for Ireland and ..

Ok so the thing was I suppose the goal was again to get back playing for Ireland.

That was the goal, that was the goal.

Just in, this is kind of moving on to the retirement side of it now. Do you think that you were

viewed as a former rugby player who made a good investment in society who did a good job by

working hard? I know it is a kind of a ..

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Am some people might think that, others may not but sure.

Ok, I know it is kind of a tough one.

Do you think there was unwillingness on your side to plan for retirement?

What?

Do you think there was unwillingness on your side?

No, I think I was definitely willing to plan for retirement.

Am, because rugby is such a physical game and no matter what position you play in, it is a

physical game and I suppose given that admitting any sort of a weakness and retirement I

suppose can be construed by some people or that my career could be over today if I get the right

belt that could be it. Do you think that, that maybe contributes to say some individuals not...

Yes.

Yeah.

Yes a lot of, what I would say is that a lot of people that just again don’t have a kind of an overall

kind of a balance in their life and it is just literally rugby, rugby and you know they become very

successful but it is one extreme to the other and they never see it happening and that is where you see

a lot of fellas playing on later and later and older and older and they are absolutely crocked and the

whole lot but they are afraid of their life to actually retire. Whereas I knew that you know from 26, 27

around that age I said right ok I have this now for another few years I will make the most of it but I

know then I am going to do something else different you know. The realisation and I just knew that

right I had it for a certain amount of time a lot of people don’t and people don’t want to be thinking

about that they want to play rugby forever and when that happens then when they go from playing to

not playing they just can’t handle the change. And that is the whole point of it isn’t it?

Yeah. Was there any structure in place to help you with your post sports career development?

Nope, no everyone was on their own.

Do you feel that you have a lot to say but no one to tell about your unresolved feelings, emotions

about retirement?

No, no delighted I retired.

Was it always, were you, was there at any stage where you were a bit say morose or even ..

No, no, no it was just a natural..

Because you had put.

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Yeah, it was just the natural way that things were going to finish.

Ok.

You didn’t engage in any sort of counselling or anything afterwards you didn’t, no, no. There

was Sports Psychologists I imagine when you were playing?

Yeah, they would have been hit and miss and the whole lot but it would never have been in relation, it

would have been purely about rugby, about your performance on the field. It would never have been,

and whatever it would never have been about retirement or anything like that, that was just when he is

gone he is gone.

Ok when you were injured did you, say did it play any part when you were injured you weren’t

visiting, I suppose you were saying there for about a year before you..

Yeah. But before I got injured I knew that was my last year so it was kind of a bit of both so. When I

knew it was my last year and I wanted to kind of finish playing obviously then with the injury it kind

of married together and there was no worries about it.

I think that is more or less it so thanks very much for that.

No worries.

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If I reference you by name it will be taken out afterwards, it will all be blanked out anyway so.

XXX, how old were you when you began your athletic career?

Athletics was in, athletics as in a professional?

No, any sports say.

Oh, I played Gaelic football under 10. I was 10 years of age like.

Oh, ok. And how old were you when you started playing Ruby Union?

19.

That was the very first time you played it?

Yeah.

And was that for a local club or?

XXX, yeah.

XXX, and how old were you when you turned professional?

24.

24, so you didn’t go through any Academy system or anything like that? You went from XXX

say to Munster yeah?

Yeah, old school.

And you have only played for Munster?

Yeah.

And you have never played outside of Ireland?

No.


Am, watching it on television basically curiosity. I played Gaelic games as a young fella like just

watched it on telly and wanted to give it a go just , which is something you recommend to all young

fellas try different games so that is basically all it was. I have no family connection or background or

192 | P a g e

link or anything it was just purely ah you know my father didn’t play, my uncles didn’t play, I didn’t

go to a school it was nothing at all it was just only watching it on telly and I suppose a young fella of

that age I wanted to give it a go.

Yeah, and just on the sports you did play and you mentioned Gaelic, you didn’t play any

solitary games or say athletic you weren’t into running say?

Nah, like again, like a lot of young fellas as I said trying different sports they do athletics and stuff as

young fellas like went to the Community Games when they were on in XXX and stuff like that and

did a bit of running, threw the shot or whatever ..

So it was always more team orientated games that you or..

Am, yeah.

Or was it just that you were better at or ...

Yeah, like I was a young fella I suppose that fooled around a lot of games but never found one until I

got rugby and then as soon as I played rugby it was just a complete change of attitude to sport. I

couldn’t even begin to describe it like. Playing Gaelic here I would always have been I won’t go

training tonight, ducking and diving and everything as soon as training came for rugby it was all the

time, I never missed a session just completely found the sport for me like.

And just how, do you have any explanation for that or was it just something that you have no

explanation for but it just happened that it was the love of the game.

It just happened to be yeah. It suited me I suppose I preferred it just, like when I was playing Gaelic

football here at XXX and hurling like I played both in the parish, like say I would be ducking training

on Tuesday, nah I won’t go whereas training in XXXX I started there as a young fella straight there

Tuesday nights and Thursday nights always on time never missed, couldn’t wait to get back the next

night it was just different and I found what I wanted to do.

Yeah. I suppose at going to the age of 19 you think that is more than likely where you would

start making excuses because obviously you are kind of...

That is the thing it does happen to the young fellas nowadays but I was just different.

Ok. Did you have any athletic heroes growing up, not just in rugby now or in?

Sporting heroes?

Sporting heroes yeah.

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Ah, the team I would have followed like, unfortunately whether it is true or not is the great Kerry

team. The football like I loved Bomber Liston and Jack O’Shea and all them fellas like. That would

have been unfortunately like, are you a Limerick man?

I am a Limerick man from Foynes so we are close enough to think if the wind comes in that we

are good enough at Gaelic football as well we have notions.

Am, no in the 80’s like as a young fella growing up it would been watching all those fellas play.

And the success that they had and the skills and stuff like that, that was one ...

I admired them like and I was only a young fella but I remembered like I remembered being heart

broken when they lost the final and all that, I was only 10 or 11 at that stage but I still remember it

like. But they would have been, growing up it would have been those fellas.

And say would you have any idea when you became conscious of rugby say as you said like

yourself watching television and stuff?

It would have been 1985 the Triple Crown, Ireland won in 1985. I remember you know, Ciaran

Fitzgerald I remember watching those games from then on. I remember 1982 as well just about I was

only 9 at that stage I would really have watched much but from 1985 on alright I remember it.

Ok. And just going back to the Kerry say, the Kerry team at that time was there anything in

that team that appealed to you, was there anything, what drew you to kind of?

Well I suppose they were just, they were so good and there was so much being talked about them and

everybody knew their names and stuff like that, you just...

And it was a game you were familiar with as well so you could identify the skills and stuff?

We would be out then in the evening and you would have the ball outside and you were trying to do

something like that you saw Mikey Sheehy doing it.


Loved doing it without question or, there is no other reason, like I say from the minute I started

playing it. Like if I stayed playing GAA I would have retired when I was in my 20’s like, you know I

wouldn’t have gone on but I was 38 when I retired like because I just loved doing it like.

And was there any, is there any, was it the hard work element of it, is it because, like I know one

or two of the other lads commented it’s a very honest sport, you get found out very quickly. If

you haven’t put it in during the week on a Saturday ...

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Oh you would yeah, you would get found out as in, you can’t bluff like, you can’t fool yourself like

either. If you tell yourself like that you trained hard during the week or fitness in the preseason and

are not fit enough you won’t be long finding out when you are playing that you are not like. I just

what I like about it than other sports, I loved the craic, the camaraderie, the team.

Yeah. I didn’t want to put the word camaraderie into your mouth because that of all, through

all the interviews that is the one...

It definitely was like and some people would ask us you know as Munster player we had it and other

teams like we even see it in the English teams some of those teams are trying to build the team that

they don’t have. They are trying to generate it, they have these team bonding, we didn’t have it we

just had it. Fellas were friends, like I am friends with those fellas they were not just team mates they

are friends like and that’s the difference like. You are not just a bunch of fellas brought together to be

a team, we ended up together and we are all, and that is why we played better I think.

And would you believe that is one of the things, the one of the reasons that they think there

might be problems with people that retire insofar as you lose that kind of family element insofar

as fellas because obviously fellas they disperse to a degree so they think that, that may

contribute to some of the elements of it. And maybe the lads going through the Academy

system, I don’t know would that be better or worse because maybe if, like I think and I am not

trying to put words in your mouth but just from some of the research I have done, because you

came from it at a stage where it went professional and without ye realising it you know, when

you first started playing rugby you probably never said I am going to play this professional ..

When I started playing it wasn’t professional.

Yeah. So when it became then, it wasn’t , it was kind of a gift and I know that you even

referenced that kind of in your autobiography you would have done it for nothing.

Of course I would, fellas had done it for years before that like so.

Yeah. I am just wondering if that is part of the, if that helps build the camaraderie in so far as

look you know it’s a bit of luck, we end up getting paid for something we do rather fellas

starting out with the mentality of well I suppose me, I am an Accountant so when I went to

college I wanted to become an Accountant. Fellas they have the psyche that this is what they

want their profession to be I am wondering does it throw that camaraderie to the side to a

degree like insofar as I need to be the best I need to get on the team whereas ye were look ye

were played at a level and then ye got picked to go professional.

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Yeah I suppose there is, it probably will change. It definitely will change young fellas focus I

suppose. Finishing school now or whatever like that you know but you will have Career Guidance

Teachers telling them look you need to do this or another but if a young fella was going to a rugby

school or whatever or playing he knows he is fairly good he is on this team etc somewhere in the

back of his mind he is thinking I am going to be playing rugby so I will tell the Career Guidance

Teacher - I want to be an Accountant or I want to do this and I want to do that and I might start off

and apply for some course here or there before deep down they know I am going training, training

and training I want to be on the Munster Academy and I want to be on the Munster Team in 3 years

time when I am 21 like and I want to play then until I am 35 so they think that but it’s not that simple

it might not happen.

Do you think that, that may be a flaw in the current system? That with the, and I know why the

academies are there is to bring on the quality of players and stuff but to a degree do you think

that, that in some way, that like I suppose the average age, the average life span for a

professional rugby player in Ireland is 6 years. Am, and I think in New Zealand I think it is 8,

split it 7. So a fella who starts off say, comes out of the Academy he starts playing for say days

at 21 is hypothetically on average going to retire at 28.

Before he is 30 like.

Before he is 30. You know and I suppose in talking to all the lads no, I don’t think anyone comes

out of rugby on the premiership soccer player wages where you just say..

There is no-one, that is a complete, see, that is what happens and it is happening in soccer for years

and years young fellas have left here gone to England on scout or gone to England with trials with

whatever level of team and didn’t half finish school, finish school thought they do the, had a trial

didn’t work out you know so, it is ruthless like, there is no, there is no mercy like and there is an

element of that while the numbers will never be the same as soccer in England or even the young

fellas leaving here to go it is there and like I said you will get a young fella who is good at rugby, he

will be in school and he is thinking I want to play rugby or I am not going to bother or half bother

with education like and he can’t stress enough that fellas have to have it.

Yeah, that they have to stay, that they have to commit to something ..

I saw there on the paper yesterday or today that Owen O’Malley has retired in Leinster at 25 of an

injury and you know he is a young fella there whose, I would imagine went to rugby school, all the

way through all the Leinster system, had it all in front of him, the next Brian O’Driscoll the whole lot.

And now it is gone at 25 so he just has to change his focus like even if he had qualified say if he had

continued in University did something he would have been parking that degree for 10 years and

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saying I am going playing now for Ireland or whatever but now he has to pick it up and start using it

and be ready for them, there is a certain amount, fellas have to, to let it go like and try accept it and

that’s, that wouldn’t be easy, you know he might get a job and say I don’t want to fxcking be here

like. The quicker he gets around that the better like.

No, I even would you believe I have even referenced him I was putting in some of the finishing

touches yesterday and I got a quote off him like...

He is the, he is the perfect example now better - than a Brian O’Driscoll to send him to Leinster

Academy, the fellas that are in the Sub Acadamy or the academy and say look lads I was sitting where

you are a few years I am only 25 and it is over for me like. You know whereas Brian O’Driscoll is

coming up 35. You know he is 10 years down the road, he was playing since he was 20. He had 15,

he is the exception to the rule. He will have had 15 years whereas Owen O’Malley is gone at 25 and

he is the fella like they will all look at Brian O’Driscoll and say I want to be like him, I want to be

playing until I am 35 but like Owen O’Malley would have been in, I would imagine in all those

Leinster Academies only a couple of years ago like and he is gone and he is the example of how

quick, how fickle it is, how you just cannot presume like that....

And just are you, I don’t know how aware you are of the work that say the Academies and them

do, are you very aware of it or are you aware of it at all?

I have an idea like you know I was never in it and it wasn’t even there when I was there. I remember

some of the lads were in a foundation thing or something I recall, it was literally just getting off the

ground when I would have been there but that, they have really only grown in the last 10 years so I

was well gone but I just knew from, I just know from being in around Limerick seeing fellas in and

out, coming and going, seeing what they do.

Yeah. Do you think thought that, that is something that possibly say the likes of Munster,

Leinster, Connaught and them should look at is educating those younger players and using

those like and I suppose your right everyone wants to look at the fella who is doing well like the

likes of Brian O’Driscoll and stuff like that who has had a very long career and obviously ..

Obviously you would like fellas to play for years.

Yeah and are more or less you know have a high profile and stuff in relation to it so I suppose

that is part of why people recognise them so much. But do you think there is scope there I

suppose for the academies to use these kind of, the other examples as well to say we’ll look at the

age that ye are at ye need to remain focused because there is a high incident of people who get

hurt in the game and ...

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Someone has to do it, like as a child, I suppose you wouldn’t call him a child, a young fella you won’t

have that like. I suppose that player’s parents will you know like, any parent would love to see their

child doing their Leaving Cert, going onto college and finishing college and then going doing you

know and I suppose you need. You need I suppose there is a lot of onus on that as well that they will

do it and I suppose you need the, you need the teams, the IRFU to put an emphasis on education as

well, that they allow time for it even as you know, even for players that are, that have gone old or are

getting towards the end of their career that they allow time in the week for education. If a fella wants

to take on any kind of a course even if it’s a night course or any kind of a thing at all. I know some of

the lads did things and suddenly then it was dragged out over months because they couldn’t do it like

you know they would have arrangements to meet, to meet someone to do something practical or

something like that whatever they were doing and the training schedule they think they would be free

on Wednesday afternoon and then training would change and they would have to cancel it and then

they mightn’t be able to get around to it for another 3 weeks and they were trying to do whatever a 2

year Diploma and something like that and it ended up lasting for 4 years because they couldn’t do it

because training wasn’t going to revolve around fellas you know having to do a course because that is

what happens and I suppose the management of the team or whatever would only care about that like

they will think there is a match this week, there is a match next week, there is a match next week and I

don’t care what whether you have to go here or do exams or you have to do this or you have to do

something it’s a case of there isn’t time in the week for it because you start training Monday morning

so we want you in the gym and then we want you to do a review of last Saturdays game then your

race, then your review then you’re doing your fitness or whatever and then it’s the preview of the next

game that when you turn up to training Thursday you have been through the tapes of all the team you

are going playing next Saturday. You park this weeks and you are going starting next weeks and you

have to have done hours on the computer getting an idea of who you are playing, the players you

know the face and if you haven’t done that so they will be saying where are you fitting in this course

you know so there is an onus on management as well do they want or do they see it as a distraction.

I’d say, I’d say some probably even would see it as a distraction that it can be seen I suppose maybe it

was different for me when I was finishing because I did do a course when I was finishing I did, I had

to go to XXXXX and finish my XXXX and I did it like and I got it done but I was near the end of the

road anyway but if you start doing that I have an awful feeling that there is kind of an inkling there

that he is distracted a little bit you know.

I understand what you are saying yeah.

If even a fella tried to open a shop or something or a business you know or if he decided to I don’t

know yeah like a pub or some sort of a thing like that they say he is running that now you know, is he

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focused this week on the match or is he thinking about you know decking out his new shop you know

that is sometimes they don’t like to see sometimes with that as they will see it as a distraction.

Yeah, and just as you say is that just, you obviously, you have experience of that or you ..

Yeah, I think so yeah. When fellas start getting, the whole thing is about you are going to have to

retire so you can’t just wait until what do I do now. You have to get ready but there is definitely a

kind of a ...

A kind of slight of resistance by the thing to accept, to give the players the opportunity to

prepare for it?

They are beginning to think there, distracted is nearly the word for it, that he is going to college now

or he is doing that course or like I said he is setting up a business or he is doing something and he was

there yesterday now and he had to meet a fella and he was in the gym yesterday morning at 8 o’clock

but he rushed it because he had to meet some fella at 10 o’clock. You know if you wanted to meet a

business or go to the bank or something like that - that you rushed training, that you did your weights

but that you had to leave fast and then you went and you met these two and you went to the bank and

you met someone else because you were setting up something and then training in the afternoon was

at 3 o’clock and you arrived back just on time, didn’t have lunch and you are back training so that’s

not what they want. They want you to be there at 8 o’clock in the morning, train until 10, then rest, do

your review on the laptops inside in the analysis room and then have lunch so that you are rested and

you have your full lunch eaten and then at 3 o’clock the next session is then that you are ready to go at

3 o’clock, that you are there waiting, you done your analysis all day and that you didn’t give the

couple of hours in the middle meeting someone or those things are seen as a distraction. And young

fellas won’t have that because they just have stars in their eyes, they just want to keep it all at rugby,

you can’t like you know keep every bit of information. Whereas as an ould fella getting to the age

you will be looking like what’s next like and that can become and that is a tricky little situation.

Can I ask you and I just suppose I am going on the other lads and they filled in, I have a

questionnaire there as well I just on the training like a lot of them have said they did I think

between say 10 sessions a week but they say about an hour and a half do you, am I right in

thinking then and I didn’t discuss this with them that is probably just the physical side they

were talking about but I obviously there is a lot and as you say as you were pointing out there as

regards reviewing tapes, preparing ..

Oh yeah, that all has to be done so and you have to be seen to be doing it. There is an analysis room

inside for Munster inside in UL and there is a table all along with about 6 computers, three on this

side and three on that side and you are sitting there, three of us even and you are looking through it

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and if you were if I saw somebody you call them over and you show them and you have to be seen

having done it. If the coach passes in and if they never saw me sitting there if he passed in and out

four times during the day like between training sessions and I wasn’t there he would know you didn’t

do your analysis like. So suddenly then what were you doing and I went well I was meeting someone

there about something then straight away you are not...

Yeah, so am I right in thinking that when they put that down they are only telling me that, that

is the physical?

Oh that’s the time in the gym.

Yeah, that’s it so obviously there is a lot more to it than that say like?

Oh there is, it is a full day. You would want to be in there in the morning and sometimes you would

get your gym time and it might be 8 or it might be 9 in the morning depending on what group they

have to split them. But as soon as you are finished you don’t just go away home you stay in there like

I say you have to be seen to be in there doing all this you don’t just skedaddle like.

So it is really like, it is more or less like a full time job then, time wise?

They are trying to get it and Munster would even be different now because we have always had this

unique two centre thing but they will change that now next year or the year after there are supposed to

be talks that happen and once that comes in then there will be one centre and it will literally be

everyone in there first thing in the morning and you would be there for most of the day, they might

shorten the day then from 8 till 1 or 2 but they will be 5, 6 hours of full..

5 days a week and then you have your match at the weekend?

Yeah, you might get your rest afternoon then or whatever like that. If you get a rest afternoon then

like I used often get slagged about it you know when I was considered a XXX here. Like and the boys

were like oh your off home to your other job now like which I often was like, I was coming home

doing something but you were supposed to go home like and on a big week of say big high coverage

or whatever, you were supposed to be in bed like that was, get rest like you know and Wednesday

afternoon was off and you would go home, you’re not exactly in bed but you are thrown down on the

couch. That rest was seen to be as important as the training you did in the morning and if you were

gone off doing something else which I often was, not alone were you not focused, concentrated but

you were, not rested is as bad as not training like and so..

And ye even so, it is even beyond say the scope of say when your there like, there is still an

element of control which they wish to exert upon you?

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Yeah, and they, you will train again like in preseason which the boys will finish an hour well in the

middle of now, they might have, they might train Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and they

might take a half day or something, maybe a half day Wednesday. And they will train Thursday

morning like everyone’s legs are fresh now because he had Wednesday afternoon off. So if he went

off doing something, even if he went off playing golf like some other fellas might have, Jesus my legs

are tired that is your own fault. That would have been recreational for you but they have been

presuming your legs are fresh because you were off yesterday evening so you should have been lying

in bed, lying on the couch like to be fresh tomorrow. So it is nonstop now and that is increased

beyond measure from when we started as professionals and we thought we were in 97 to what it is

now.

And as you were kind of pointing out there and you think it will probably get even more intense

say because you said when they move to the centre I think they are talking about moving it

down to the University I think ..

It’s in UL yeah, I thought it would be yeah.

So you think that, that would probably and I suppose where I am kind of going with it then the

more intense that is the less opportunity for fellas to try and develop interests and try and make

a way for themselves after rugby.

Yeah, it’s a very tricky balance.

Yeah.

And there is definitely, there would definitely be a kind of a, whatever is the word from the

management, maybe even other players, players can be saying to themselves, Jesus he is not, he has

got one eye on something else. Now they know that you are in your last year and if they know like

that ah he is only ticking along now, he is getting ready to go, that you are not the same as when you

were 22, 23, 24 whatever you had been building up they know you are, that if they hear that if

someone is doing a course or someone is setting up a business or getting involved with some

partnership or something they kind of see it as ..

As a distraction somewhat?

As a distraction and they kind of wonder is he really distracted, is he really 100% focused, committed

here now anymore.

I know your experience, obviously you were in the Irish set up as well so maybe you just know it

from fellas saying. Do you think that, that is the same with the other provinces or ..

I would imagine so, I would say it is the very same yeah.

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I know that you wouldn’t know too much but I would imagine that ye discussed bits and pieces

in relation to it.

The way things are going like I was saying they want you there all day like. Analysis now there is so

much to it, when it comes to the end of it now, when it comes to the week like you can’t not know a

player’s name or something like that you just have to sit there in a meeting like they, like you

wouldn’t even call it a trick question now but it might be just did you see those or they presume that

you had seen the scrums or the line outs. You know like I was a XXX or say they would be saying

what do you think of the scrums there from when that team played the other team you know ah I

haven’t seen them yet, if you say that Tuesday or Wednesday it is kinda like what have you been

doing that is how far it has gone.

Ok.

You can’t look at it Friday night like and if you haven’t it done that’s the way it has gone it’s just

nonstop like.

Yeah, I didn’t, like I suppose you know it is professional and I suppose but you think you know

that the professionalism comes into it while there is training involved that it is of the skill that ye

have is the profession is the embodiment of the thing. The levels that you played at, you played

at club, provincial, international and touring sides. How long did your professional career last?

14 seasons.

And for what reason did you retire, voluntary or involuntary?

Old age, voluntary. XX I think I had enough got out of it.

And just at that stage it was the body but you were still fit say, it wasn’t injury related no?

No, I was 100% fit I could have played on. I retired even mid-season and they wanted me to finish it

out and I was like nah.

Do you think that because obviously and you were discussing there some of the fellas coming

into it very young in life that and as we said that there is an issue there with kind of you know

the hits and stuff that they are getting do you think that, that is probably likely to play more of

a role in..

Oh it is because they are definitely putting their bodies under pressure, they are pushing them now

even more than what we pushed them. When I was, like I started when I was 19 and when I started

all I had to do was training, there was no such thing as doing weights or anything like. Whereas now

even a young fella if he is playing in the centre or the back row forward or backs and if he is told, or if

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he thinks himself I am too light for my position he puts on a stone weight like so they are pushing

their bodies to the limit like the whole time now.

Yeah, Just to move on to the kind of training stage or the initiation stage of the thing. It is clear

that you made a long term commitment to sport and have achieved a high level in relation to

same. At what age did you begin your competitive sport’s career and how successful was it in

the initial stages? Just say at the age of 19 say.

Yeah, I definitely changed to being competitive at that really wanted to win but wouldn’t have been

successful until I was 23.

And say when you said you were successful ye started winning cups and stuff like that.

With XXXX yeah.

What was your main goal when you started? Say when you got to say XXX say. Once you had

progressed say from XXX to XXX did you have it in your, I suppose modesty might prevent you

from saying it but did you have it in your head ok I am after making a step up here I could go

to, there is other levels I could go to at this stage.

Probably, in a way I never set out a goal like that but I kept stepping up and as soon as I stepped up I

found myself comfortable in that environment like. You know I never kind of say Jesus that is one

too far anyway you know. When I started off XXX didn’t have a clue when I started playing and then

when I played with XXXX it was a big senior club. I didn’t set the place on fire like, I am not going

to say that but I fxcking knew that I could compete here like. Then after a couple of years of that I

went to XXX and I played down there, got on the team, got selected and the whole lot and played so

when I came back I got on the Munster squad and you know just found it yeah, I can train with this I

can compete at this level and I just always kept finding that I was able to compete at the level I was at.

I never found myself...

If you set yourself a goal at that, say when you had say, when you realised that say ok look I am

above average say in relation to this and I can maybe move on through it. Did you form any

long term goals or were they kind of short term goals ok I played for XXXX last week I am

going to try make a run of games for XXXX now or ...

No, it would have always been kind of I remember playing for XXXX or whatever like I would have

played against an international fella in another team or something like that. Like I said if he was on it,

then if he was on it like I could be on it. That was more the way the...

Ok, so you set your bench map against kind of who you were playing against, yeah.

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If I played against a fella, well he is playing full time for Ireland or whatever like you know I played

against him there or I tackled him or I did this or that and I kind went I want to be there, if he can be

there I can be there. That was more the way I was saying you know it was always that way like.

Yeah. By commitment to sport we mean your desire and determination to keep doing what you

do best and that is to keep on winning. Were results important to you at the beginning and

why? Probably moving to XXXX again I suppose.

Results as in?

As in say winning games.

They are yeah, they always are. But there is nothing that beats the feeling of winning at the end of the

day but for me again I am different now because I came to it so late and I changed positions even. I

started off at the back ground and then played in the XXXX and then played in the XXXX so all the

way along even if I lost a game or I maybe didn’t even play that well you know but if I always

thought I learned something today then I am now better in my position but we lost so I would always

try take some sort of, that definitely happened you know. And there was days then we probably won

the match but if I felt I played bad I wouldn’t be happy, you know that kind of way. But there could

be another day then where we might have lost but if I felt I played really well you would definitely

have a kind of a satisfaction that you know. That actually happens, like your team could win but you

would feel you played shxt today, you know you have kind of an empty feeling. It is kind of ok we

won it’s great but there could be another day when it would be the other way around that you might

have lost but you really played well in everything you did like and your sick and you are not happy

because you lost but there is a slight satisfaction there in yourself that you know you did well. You

are not going to shift blame everyone, you know it was all your shxt I was brilliant but you know that

things went well for you.

Do you think that, that comes down to I suppose a lot of the, some of the lads have commented

as well that rugby is such an honest game that based on that because it was honesty of effort

that you rated more so than actually winning.

Yeah.

It was great that you won but it was better if you had won and you had put in a big effort and it

kind of, that everything followed through in the end. That even if you lost that you were honest

with yourself and you know you played an honest game at the end of the day you were happy

enough then as well. So maybe it is the honesty of effort then that drives the..

Absolutely yeah.

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Ah, considering everything both on and off the field how much did you enjoy playing the sport.

1 is not very much and 7 is loved it.

Oh 7.

What valuable opportunities did you have taking part in sport such as travel, meeting people

and job opportunities? There just, if there is anything else you can..

The travel is brilliant anyway as a young fella, tours and stuff like that and you know like. I went off

to XXXX myself as a young fella when I as 21. And I thought like I would never be out there. But

literally then I didn’t know how it was going to work out I went on tour in New Zealand, Australia,

America, South America so the travel is brilliant like just you get to travel the world.

But you were quick to point out when you were a young fella later on then say I know it’s one of

the things that some of the lads commented on and I suppose especially now that the seasons are

getting so long as well, especially now with summer tours and they are back now but some of

that would have been probably a summer tour in America I think this year in June and then

July off and now they are back for preseason and now they are more or less going to go again

until May touch wood. So, for a very physical game, more physical then the likes of soccer and

that, that you are more or less on the go for at least 11 months of the year.

Oh you are 11 yeah and some of the boys with a Lions tour and stuff like that it could run over it

could even hit the full 12.

Right.

I remember that happened last year for the boys that started training pre World Cup 11 so they started

in the beginning of June 2011 and the tour. They were back in New Zealand again in June 2012 and

they actually hit the full 12 months maybe even a week over it like.. It is fxcking crazy like.

Yeah. With that intensity like you know it is expecting a lot especially you know ..

The tours weren’t too bad but what happened with me if you want to talk about travel if you can call it

travel, it is travel but the games in Wales and Scotland and places leaving on a Thursday, flying over,

landing in Bristol or Cardiff or something, getting a bus down, staying in the hotel, go play the game

Friday and travel home then that night back into Shannon at 1 o’clock in the morning back here at 2

you know the novelty wore off ..

Yeah, and I think it is that is what I picked up from some of the research is that is I think what

gets to fellas the thing that you say yourself like the tours are good because to a degree it is a one

flight thing and ...

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Tours are different but all the travel for matches you know the novelty wore off very lively.

Just thinking back to your first major competitive honour when you turned professional what

was that?

First major professional honour when I turned professional, for me it was to be picked for a tour to

XXX I was an amateur and I was picked to tour as a professional. My first taste of professionalism

was on a tour. I was still working right up to the week I left like.

You were working for ..

XXXX.

After the cap did you set about any other goals say for your career say once you had say made it

onto that first tour?

The only thing I can honestly remember was when I got one I wanted two.

Ok, you didn’t want to be the one cap wonder?

Yeah, that is actually true I can remember, I remember when I got my first cap I was there Jesus don’t

end up with this now get a second one quickly. I couldn’t wait for the game to come around to get the

second one and then once I got a second one then I suppose I looked at 10 and then after 10 then I just

stopped counting at that stage then it was just I just wanted to play I just wanted to win something for

a finish because we had, had a few close calls at that stage and we finished second in the

championship and stuff and I wanted medals at that stage.

The one cap thing, you are not the first fella to mention that ..

Fxck it, it’s an awful thing to, you are holding your breath Jesus get picked again.

One of them was on it for 2 years he told me he thought he would never get off it.

Did your life change in anyway after your first big win? Say after the cap, did you find was

there any extra demands placed upon you? Say time wise, you know performance wise or..

Not after the cap but I can remember - just from a point of view of even with Munster they all

happened around the same time was you know - recognition on the street and stuff picked up around

the same time you know like. Even when I started out as a young fella and even when we were

playing I remember even in the 90’s and stuff like some of the international fellas wouldn’t be

recognised walking around the street. Like whereas as we started to win in Munster and we got to the

first Heineken Cup and with Ireland we won a few games and stuff suddenly you find, you, the first

thing you would start to notice would be just in a shop in Limerick or someone would come up to you

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and say well done at the weekend who you don’t know like. You are used to your neighbours and

your friends saying it but a total random stranger would say that to you, they recognised you standing

in a shop and they had seen you playing or something like that and that is when you will realise that it

is, that will change something like that people will recognise who you are like that you don’t know

when you walk into a shop they know who you are like. That is different like.

Yeah. There was obviously extra demands, obviously press, there was obviously more the way

media interest and stuff like that. Did you get any training in relation to that or much in the

way of training?

Yeah, they did yeah, they used to at the start they still do it some bit I think in the academies. There

was from time to time where they would try and tell you how to answer questions properly and stuff

like that you know. Don’t leave yourself wide open like, don’t say something stupid like I think we

will bate the shxt out of this crowd at the weekend, don’t get sucked into something like that you

know how to answer questions properly.

Ok. So there was a level of training there and I suppose a bit of common sense then would have

been...

Yeah, like that’s even, that’s gone up now even more than, more and more nowadays because of..

Social media?

Social media yeah, just shows you how far removed I am I didn’t even know. They have lost control a

bit, you see they liked, when we were there in the old days we had a PRO Officer who would always

be there around or when fellas were doing an interview he would be floating around listening to the

questions and if he thought a dodgy fella was asking dodgy questions he would give them a fxcking,

they would move around you know they could control them but now you have social media like and

the young fella if he is dropped he can send out a tweet, I am pxssed off from being dropped you

know and they can’t control it as much so they will definitely be trying to bring in guidelines now

more and more because of that.

Yeah, that’s ah, that’s very valid now even as much as you think you are not in the loop with it

you probably made the most sense in talking about it and there was one or two of your

colleagues who would probably consider themselves very media savvy didn’t make that point.

I nearly know the answer to this question anyway but when you were playing sport did you

have any other identities say outside of sport and I suppose the XXXX was probably one of

them which you retreated back to. You kept the sport say was one side of say your life which

obviously was say professional took a lot of time but you obviously developed other aspects of

your life as well at the same time.

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Yeah, well I did anyway yeah. I always did like. I always loved going home and getting away like

you know. Even from the point of view of just being away from home or being back at home and not

you know something like you said there when you suddenly find yourself being recognised you know

if you go into Limerick with a couple of the other lads and you walk down the street you have to be

aware that you are on show - like so people will recognise you when they see you, if you do stuff, so

you always have to be you know doing I don’t know misbehaving like but if you go in for a cup of tea

like and you sit down inside of the café. You know that there is people looking over at you who know

you like, and you know like and they are looking at you or something like that I don’t even know how

to say that without being..

No, I understand.

Well, I love coming home here like as soon as I come in the door there like you know you can just

walk and do what you like, you can just be you know relaxed a little bit more.

Probably the closer you got to home the more you could be yourself say. You weren’t playing

to a persona say maybe that you have to be in a public setting say.

You have to be like because people, like I said if you go back 10 or 15 years or before that you could

walk down the street and people wouldn’t half know you. But you know if myself and a few of the

lads, if four of us said right we will go for tea, we will go for lunch if you go into a place anywhere in

the middle of Limerick, if you walk up William Street or you know people will recognise you and

that’s a fact. Like and you know like, it’s not that you, if the four of you walked abreast on the

footpath and let everybody get out of the way they would say fxcking assholes you know, you have to

be polite like and not that being polite is wrong just, you just always have to be you know conscious

of what you’re doing and as soon as you drive therein home you can lie down here or do what you

want like and relax like.

Is there anything that you invested in rugby that you can’t recover? If that makes sense. Was

there anything that you put into it that you may regret putting into it. Anything you feel like

you have missed out on say?

No.

Some of the lads just mentioned and again I am not trying to put words in your mouth, you

know it’s time, and I know time is a big thing and a lot of the lads say you miss out on, one

person and to be fair it kind of struck a chord with me because he mentioned that for all the

success ye had and obviously he had friends outside of rugby and they would be off and when he

meets them now and they are talking about oh yeah remember the night ye won the Heineken

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Cup remember we were in Cardiff and we were pxssed off our tree and he says he stands back

because he wasn’t in that because obviously ye were in it.

Yeah, there might have been a wedding or something that I missed but I wouldn’t..

It’s not something that you didn’t...

No, no there would have been friends of mine that I didn’t get to go to a wedding because we were

away on tour, there might have been something like that but there is no way I would have changed

any of it anyway. There are people working in any other type of a job and they could have missed the

wedding or something as well like.

Yeah, there is always obviously yeah there is probably a good excuse for...

So no, there is no way I would ..

Yeah. Did you feel a sense of obligation to keep competing because of the expectations of other

people?

No.

No. Were the expectations of other people important to you at any stage in your career?

No.

Encouragement and support, did you get a lot of that from say your family and say friends for

stuff like that to keep pushing through your career?

Yeah you would from yeah.

Ok. Say management wise, say, like I know like it’s I know the Munster management would

have wanted you to perform well say on a week to week basis but say in an overall prospective I

don’t know am I phrasing that right - did you feel that you know they were, were they very

supportive to ye as individuals as well in the group or did you find that well look I am an

employee and it is up to me to perform and if I don’t perform I mightn’t get my contract next

season. Do you know what I am saying, did it become very business-like more so than..

It probably did towards the end but it wasn’t like that again I can only speak from I started as a

professional in 97, well as a part time professional in 97, full time in 98 and at that stage it wasn’t, it

was we were still an old friendly team but definitely by the end and now I would imagine is becoming

more and more like that. That it’s, still now you try and have some sort of relationships and stuff like

that but it was definitely different back then yeah. It has grown with professionalism, it has definitely

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changed because that was basically 1997 that was as they call it the cross over from amateur to

professional so a lot of the old amateur things would have still come through the changes and gone on.

Yeah, because I know and that was I suppose the one thing, the new thing that the IRFU were

trying to bring in which is remove the payments to the players at club level because they feel

that some fellas at club level turned into mercenaries more or less.

Oh that is absolutely it yeah.

And that was at a lower level and I suppose they are trying to bring it back to because I suppose

from what I knew of rugby say growing up there wouldn’t have been an awful lot of rugby say

out in West Limerick when we were growing up but I always knew that it was a very genuine

thing and it seemed to be family orientated - probably one of the more family orientated sports

to have been in and then I suppose the question I put to some of the lads is did the move to

professionalism take from that you know whereby it became a business and at times fellas had

to be say “deselected” in so far as your performance wasn’t up to scratch last season.

Well, it is like you know, that is ah, an issue for Coaches now, there was a time if you wanted a

selector even like the Manager of a GAA team now you are only dropping a fella off the panel still he

goes back to work and works away like whereas if you are dropped out of the Munster squad now you

are basically sacking a fella you are unemployed and that is affecting his livelihood so it is definitely a

bigger issue now for a Coach, a Head Coach, a Director of Rugby or whatever, of a club like Munster

or whatever when they cut a fella that he is not just being dropped out of a squad he is being made

redundant like basically so it is a huge, huge issue for them that wouldn’t have been there you know

like 15 years ago, they isn’t there for an inter county Couch, Manager like you know someone drops

someone out of a I think even a big name player like you know he is still he has a job and can go back

to his job and work away whereas for a Munster player or a professional player who gets a phone call

come and see me like or whatever like and you are told listen there is nothing there for you next year,

sometimes the earlier in the year you get the phone call, again I was lucky it didn’t happen to me, I

got my last contract and I retired but like if a fella got a phonecall after Christmas he got told this I

need to see you next week by the CEO or by the Coach whatever and you arrive in and the two of

them are sitting there it is either going to be great news or something or it is either going to be fierce

bad and if it is awful bad why they call you in early is to give you a chance to....

To get something going..

If you are a young enough fella that is getting dropped or cut it gives you a chance to get out there and

look to see if there is anything else and if you are an ould fella that is at the end of the road anyway it

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is to give you a chance to get going at something else so that I would imagine is harder for them and it

is a new thing that wasn’t there, it isn’t there in other sports it’s not their livelihood like.

I know you say it never happened you but it would obviously be something that you would be

conscious of like every year ye got a contract it was like a performance review aspect of a

normal say job like ok I am doing my job right I got a new contract. So it must have always,

when it became your livelihood you have to become more cognisant of the fact ..

Oh you do, you do yeah and it is like everything then you get married and you have children and stuff

you realise that you need it like and that you have young fellas there and that as soon as they get

money they think it’s great you know. As you get older that’s another thing you start looking at the

end of the road coming and you are kind of going. What have I done now, have I a bit saved up, have

I this or that you know you are trying to keep things right, another thing will I change the car this year

or will I buy the sports car you know. I had XXX children, I had XXXX children by the time I

finished like you know so it is different that way.

But say and I suppose the question is a bit moot for you I suppose because you did come to

slightly the later age. Like when did you start to say, when did it come into your head ok, I have

to make a plan now I have to retire out of this. You know I am sure that you probably one or

two seasons in you probably said ok I am moving on now I am going to be 28 or 29 this isn’t

going to last forever because I am not going to play until I am 65. When did retirement or

planning say...

Not for a long time.

Yeah.

I will be honest about that like not for a long time because you don’t want to think about it and you

are not allowed think about it or just whatever. Like it is kind of you know you are just playing like

and all you want to see is the next thing like you just don’t think about it and that is what is dangerous

about it, that if you haven’t something before that takes over like you just don’t know like.

And when you say you weren’t allowed to think about it was and I know they can’t control your

thoughts but is it part of the psyche the psychology of it is that no negative thoughts.

This is it like yeah. There is definitely a feeling there that anything like that is a little bit of a

distraction now that’s coming like that you are looking at another option like.

Because like I suppose when you I have kind of worked this out in the interviews that I have

done. Rugby is such a physical sport. Injuries happen in it you can’t go out onto the pitch and

play at the level ye are at thinking this could be my last game I could get hurt because you

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would pull out of everything, you would be over in the sideline hiding for half the game. So you

can’t, to a degree you can’t allow yourself to think to that degree..

No, never.

So do you think that, that’s maybe fellas have to think I am bullet proof and I can’t be thinking

these things? Logic tells me that I should be thinking about it but I know to do what I need to

do in the present moment in time I can’t think about that.

You just can’t think about that, you don’t, you just don’t, you can’t.

Yeah. So it comes down to...

The only time it ever happened me was the morning of my very last game I woke up above in bed, I

remember before I got up I was lying there and I thought Jesus if I broke my neck tonight, that came

into my head like, fxck just get the fxck out of bed straight away, got it out of my head. It is the only

time it ever, ever happened me. What if something happened to me, what if I broke my neck going

into a scrum like, I have been in a fxcking million of them but I just got up out of bed then and got

straight out and started moving around, forgot all about it then and played the match it was over it and

that was it then.

And do you think that was because the line was there ..

Because I knew I was finishing, I knew tonight was my last time I was ever going to play whereas

other players don’t know that, they could be playing today at 25 like and next thing fxck up their

knee like and that is it they might never play again but they didn’t know that at the time . I was like

the fella I suppose on death row or something I knew my time was coming and that was it..

Jesus, and now to be fair to a lot of the lads I have interviewed the injury did curtail them to the

finish. Actually just on one point one of the lads made. Do you think that beyond say and I

know you retired in relatively good health obviously not, most players don’t retire in very good

health but there is kind of stages some fellas, arthritis seems to be a big thing that happened to a

lot of the lads. Do you think that there should be an increased duty of care held by the likes of

say Munster Rugby, the IRFU for the players? You know do you think, like once ye retire do

the shutters come down. You’re a great man, you performed well all these years and we paid

you for those years and there you are now. I am not like going into the financial aspect of it but

I am saying that because it is so professional now and it is like you know more or less ok you

have retired here is the watch more or less if you take for the normal circumstance. Do you

think that there should be more done say from that prospective like should the IRFU should

Munster Rugby do a bit more for say..

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There is something there like, there is some sort of thing there I didn’t ever do it but I think you can

get like an ankle operated on or something if it was giving you trouble you could get that done there is

some sort of a thing there I am not sure about it.

But say even say beyond say not even the physical side of it even the psychological side of it like

I said my project here is mainly psychological like I am not checking your knees or anything

like that it is mainly to see how the transition went for ye and I suppose like there is a lot of

elements of rugby that can contribute to fellas having a bad transition and it is not even just

rugby professional sports in themselves because lots of fellas retire, not lots of fellas retire at 35

but most professional sports players around that age say 35 they are looking around and there

is a fella down the road and he is well into his normal career and they might be just starting. Ok

they have had great years but they are kind of at the bottom rung of the second say career in

their life.

Oh it is yeah, that is a huge thing like you know for a fella like. You know you are an Accountant or

something you might be qualified as an Accountant then he would be 35 starting off say and he boss

could be 27 like you know. Suddenly you, that is what it does do you know so but back to the

Munster thing sure they do anything, I don’t know like what can they do for you like.

Oh I know, I suppose you know is there counselling offered, is there anything, no.

There is no counselling for that like they would probably try and offer help, employment wise,

coaching wise, no not coaching wise, qualification wise if they thought they might know someone

who could get you on a course or get you to do something like that but there is no help there, like

what, it comes to an end like. Where I said a minute ago about being recognised that is something that

maybe some fellas might have trouble with then is that when you are playing with Munster whatever

when you are playing all along and you are with a few of the boys and you walk up William Street or

something like that some fellas might like that you know they might like the with the track suit on like

you know and after a few years then if they retire and walk around William Street and no one will

know who they are that can hurt like.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

If that’s your thing like.

Yes.

But like Munster can’t do anything about that like.

Oh, I understand, I understand but I suppose ..

It might be hurtful more than anything sometimes when that starts to happen like that ..

Their identity say, their athletic identity is kind of ..

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There might be a young fella who is 6 and he won’t recognise you, you know and that can hurt more

than anything else like, that’s like you said at the start about going to training like I haven’t been to a

Munster training session since I finished because I don’t want to be there like. But like if you go

around hanging around UL or where ever the boys are training, what are you hanging there for like

are you trying to still say I am part of this like because you are not. Do you want people to recognise

you they might because you are in the vicinity of that, and they say Jesus there is your man who used

to play - but like what’s that for like that’s no good to anyone like.

Yeah, they also and I don’t know and I am not going to delve too much into it - sometimes

players that are on, that are still on the team that say you would have played on and stuff like

that don’t want to see you either because to see you, maybe somebody that had to leave because

they got injured they don’t want to see that person around because that might remind them of...

It is obvious that this could happen.

So it can lead then to not only is his career over because he is injured which is obviously a very

bad thing to happen he kind of gets somewhat ostracised because fellas not through badness but

simply to do my job I really don’t need to see.......

I really don’t need to see you over there hobbling along like.

Yeah, because I don’t need to be reminded that if, that, that could be me next week.

Yeah, it is brutal.

So I think you know that is just one thing that kind of I picked up on as well. I am very nearly

finished now. Was there any structure in place to help you with your sport’s career, sorry your

post sport’s career development?

Yeah, IRUPA helped me. They are an organisation in rugby like that formed maybe 10 or 12 years

ago you know when they came in..

Hamish was ...

Hamish was one of the first fellas yeah he is gone now.

He is gone now yeah. But I think they are recruiting a couple of other lads now ..

What is the other guys name now Mohammad? He is Australian anyway.

Ok.

Niall Woods was the CEO for a few years. They are good now you know they organise courses for

fellas playing, basically even in some ways and like if you ask Hamish maybe he will tell you like that

he would know that he came to meetings and I know it as well now because I was gone older of what

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have you, that he came into meetings where they would say right 3 o’clock today we are meeting

Hamish from IRUPA and you would be going oh for fxcks sake like and then inside there Hamish

would be above having done loads of work, having been to colleges or different kind of companies

you might get someone to come in from somewhere about setting up your own business and he would

know, Hamish would be looking down at the young fella and he is there saying I have no more

interest in what you are saying now he is 24 he has just been picked and he has no fxcking interest

whatsoever but this is what Hamish says that is not for me, it’s like when they ask people have you

got your pension set up I’ll do that next year you know, I don’t need that like, that’s nothing to do

with me. But Hamish would know then that if he looked down he might see an older fella who is 31

or 32 who would be listening like because at that stage there is some bit of a realisation coming like

you know.

Yeah, yeah.

But the young fellas around 23, 24, 25 Hamish will tell them about this opportunity now to do this but

they are like “blah blah blah” all I want to hear is rugby like, they don’t want it like.

But you found IRUPA good from your own prospective yeah yeah.

Had you any unresolved feelings when you retired that were harmful to your mental wellbeing?

No.

Did you have any frustrations, no?

No. I walked out of there as happy as anything.

Did you have any support from your peers, close friends, club or province when you retired or

did you need any?

I didn’t need it .

If I can ask you do you think it was because and I am not going to blow smoke up your xss is it

that you were grounded you had a family, you knew what your plan was going to be and you

were never lost, it wasn’t a case of rugby is over what am I going to do. I know what I am going

to do the following day say.

Yeah, no, there was definitely suited me like and you know I think even the other fellas would have

know that was there for me as well like you know they knew that I was that kind of a fella that they

didn’t have to worry about me or anything like that.

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A lot of the lads I think to be fair to them I think from the lads I have interviewed and I suppose

and one fella put it very distinctly is that we were successes on the pitch and I am confident I

can be a success at something else in my life and I know that I can take my skills fine I can’t

tackle somebody to get a sale or something like that but I can use my determination, I can use

that in order to make myself a success in other parts of my life.

Fellas have definitely found out about themselves like that they had to push themselves to the limit

like and they know that you know how they can achieve or not achieve like they push themselves out

of their comfort zones.

And would that be one of the biggest things you learnt say from the game of rugby was the fact

that no matter how far I think there is a line there that maybe I can’t cross, I know that I can go

another bit yeah.

Absolutely.

a whole new ball game - final year project

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